WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.759 A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free access to these shows 2 00:00:03.799 --> 00:00:06.919 and a ton of other VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also 3 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:11.960 gain access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week to 4 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:16.000 week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, 5 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:20.280 along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from the 6 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:24.960 nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, 7 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:29.000 and also our podcast library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 8 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:34.200 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes 9 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:38.799 with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now approaching twenty years of podcasting, go 10 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:42.479 vip and dive into our post pay per view roundtables, our coverage of some 11 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:47.240 of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews, and special 12 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:52.920 format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. Pwtorch dot com slash go vip. 13 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:55.840 We have a streamline sign up for me and you can pay with PayPal 14 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.359 or directly with your credit card or debit card. In one or two minutes 15 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.320 from right now, you can be a VIP member and diving into our library. 16 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:18.560 PW torch dot com, slash go VIP now. PW Torch and Spreaker 17 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:23.040 bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview 18 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:30.879 Classic, where Wade Keller interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers five years ago. 19 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:34.799 This week on the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, I interviewed John Moxley aka 20 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:41.439 Dean Ambrose. This was his second long form interview and the first he recorded 21 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:48.680 since his first surprise appearance for aw at Aw Double or Nothing in Las Vegas. 22 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.680 So this, by design is a follow up to his first interview with 23 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:55.879 Chris Jericho, which had been the talk of the progressing industry for several days. 24 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:59.599 So we covered some different territory. The interviews conducted on May twenty ninth, 25 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:01.879 post couple days later, overall two and a half hours. This is 26 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:06.719 the first half of the interview. Will drop the second half later this week. 27 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.240 This included how he feels about what he said on the Christierical podcast and 28 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:13.479 what his goal was in saying what he said, why he thinks he's starting 29 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.319 fresh and can't fail not chasing the fake carrot and brass ring, as he 30 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:20.879 put it. Also what he already loves about the creative freedom he has experienced 31 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:24.280 in AEW up to that point. How fixable is a w creative process? 32 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:29.159 Behind the scenes, details on the hurdles WWWE wrestlers have to jump through to 33 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:32.800 get a promo Ono TV, Why WWE wrestlers have trouble finding their own voice 34 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:38.520 on promos, and why he thinks w writer's jobs shouldn't exist. How groupthink 35 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:43.919 reinforces Vince's creative proclivities, an example of where he was wrong and Vince was 36 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:46.599 right. What he thinks of Triple AH as a possible replacement for Vincic Man 37 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:51.400 as head of creative descripting of the First Shield promo, and on and on 38 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:53.599 and on. So many great topics covered here. This is a good one. 39 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:57.479 It's worth rel listening to if you were around five years ago for it. 40 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:00.520 It's definitely worth settling in and focusing on if you have never heard this 41 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:06.360 before, So let's get to it again. This originally dropped on June first, 42 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:08.759 twenty nineteen, five years ago today, and it is today's Way Keller 43 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:14.639 Pro Wrestling Podcast. Interview Classic for Saturday, June first, twenty twenty four. 44 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:21.680 Earlier this week, the former Dean Ambrose John Moxley spoke out for the 45 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:25.360 first time on Chris Jericho's podcast for nearly an hour and a half about his 46 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:30.400 frustrations with WWE. I am super pleased to have with me for a special 47 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:36.919 edition of the Wade Keller Prog Wrestling Podcast, A weekend interview two parter John 48 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:43.680 Moxley. This is his first interview after his appearance at AW. This is 49 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:49.599 his first interview where he can talk about his debut at AW double or Nothing 50 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:54.199 last Saturday night. I am pretty sure it's the longest interview he's ever done, 51 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:59.199 and it might be the longest interview he ever does. He hasn't been 52 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:01.800 some who's gone out there and done a lot of media during his time with 53 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:09.000 WWE. He is a social media recluse. He has he is on Twitter, 54 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:14.319 he has exactly he follows exactly zero people, and we talk about that 55 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:18.240 in this interview. This is going to be a blast settle in. It 56 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:21.160 was kind of borderline whether I wanted to split into two parts, but it's 57 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:25.279 really long ago it's, you know, two and a half hours, so 58 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:30.000 We're split it up into two pretty equal chunks, and we'll drop him over 59 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.399 the course of two days. John really wanted people have time to soak this 60 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:40.560 up and and kind of absorb what we talked about, because he doesn't do 61 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:45.519 this this is New Territory Forum going in depth on this kind of thing. 62 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:50.959 My intention with this interview is to not duplicate pretty much anything he said with 63 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:56.279 Chris Jericho, and I actually recommend you go check out Talk Is Jericho from 64 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.800 this past week, just a few days ago, and listen to that first. 65 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.800 I think it's almost a necessary precursor to today's interview. Well, I 66 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.879 was just gonnat say necessary. You're gonna enjoy the heck out of this either 67 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:09.079 way. But we do make references to things he said, and I didn't 68 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:12.480 want to use up time with him having him just repeat what he had already 69 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.920 talked about with Chris. So I recommend, if you haven't heard it yet, 70 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:17.800 that you do check that out. You can listen to this first and 71 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:19.600 go back and listen to that, and then listen to this again. Do 72 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:23.480 whatever you want, of course, but I'm just warning you ahead of time. 73 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:28.160 The assumption in this interview in the way that I present it is that 74 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:31.920 you are aware having listened to, or at least read extensive highlights of what 75 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.759 he had to say with his colleague and a w on Chris Jericho's podcast earlier 76 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:43.680 this week. This is tremendous. We get in depth on some topics that 77 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:47.120 he's obviously never spoken about before, and he gets in depth on them, 78 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:54.879 including the brock Lessener WrestleMania controversy. What went wrong with that match? With 79 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:59.319 the build up, he goes into our biour day by day detail of his 80 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:04.600 frustrations leading into the match. He also talks about the Stone Cold Steve Austin 81 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:12.279 podcast in depth. What the heck went wrong there? He explains it all. 82 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.560 Also, what's Triple H's like to work with compared to Vince McMahon behind 83 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.240 the scenes, and so much more I'm not even to spoil it out. 84 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:25.480 We cover a wide array of topics that that Chris and and Dean didn't get 85 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:30.399 you, including his thoughts on on his aw experience, the news that he's 86 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:31.839 heading to Japan in fact this weekend. He's on his way there right now 87 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:36.240 as I'm recording this introduction to the interview. So we got into a lot 88 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:41.079 of subjects that just weren't even on the table when he taped the Jericho interview, 89 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:46.639 and we look ahead to what he's excited about with aw and New Japan 90 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:50.480 and where things go from here. This is this good stuff I think you'll 91 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:55.680 really enjoy. You'll notice early on, unlike on the Jericho interview, we 92 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.079 weren't sitting in the same room in front of a microphone with good acoustics. 93 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:01.720 This was a a interview I did over the phone with him. And there's 94 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:06.800 a few cell phone connection issues early. I don't know if issues is the 95 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:10.480 word, but you can tell that the connection isn't a strong. Good part 96 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:14.600 is it goes away eventually and gets really solid. So don't get too discouraged 97 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:16.959 if there's a few times he's talking and you wish it was a little clear. 98 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.839 Unfortunately, the connection strengthened as we went along, so and it's not 99 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.560 that bad, but I'm just letting you know we're aware of it. And 100 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:29.079 it doesn't continue through the through the last two thirds. So anyway, I 101 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:30.399 won't even tell you about all the stuff we talked about. There's way more 102 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.399 and it's a blast. So here we go. The John Moxy Interview. 103 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:41.120 The interview was recorded for the record on Wednesday night, May twenty ninth. 104 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:46.600 Enjoy part one and then hit refresh for Part two coming up tomorrow. Now, 105 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:48.959 if you want to get an early listen to part two, we're gonna 106 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:53.519 put part two of the interview, the second half up early for VIP members 107 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:58.240 sometime Saturday afternoon or early evening, So if you don't want to wait until 108 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:01.879 Sunday afternoon or evening. Our usual time to post our interview classic every weekend, 109 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:05.759 and that's when we'll post part two of this interview here on the Waight 110 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:09.240 Keller Pro Wrestling podcast feed, which is available for free for everyone. You 111 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:13.000 can get a chance to listen to it as early as Saturday afternoon or early 112 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:18.879 evening. So another perk too VIP membership along with all the VIP exclusive podcasts. 113 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:24.360 So let's get wrong here we go. The former Dean Ambros John Moxley 114 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:28.680 need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, will come join me 115 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:35.240 Alan fourrel Over in the Progress Paradise at Peterwood Torch VIP as we mask on 116 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.480 the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows 117 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.200 from around the world, be it the US Japan, Europe or Mexico. 118 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:48.440 There's always a place for wrestlings past and the paradise too, and we've done 119 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.639 fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career of 120 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:56.879 Jusian thunder Lighter and our I was there when shows where our guests will join 121 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:01.080 me to talk about a classic bout they were in attendance for. We love 122 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:07.080 variety and you can expect lots of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed pw 123 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:11.399 Torch VIP subscription information on a list of all the VIP benefits is available at 124 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:18.039 pww torch vip info dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible 125 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:22.159 with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them 126 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:26.559 directly from our ad free VIP mobile site. See you in the Paradise, 127 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:35.759 John Thinker taking time to talk to me. You are a subject that people 128 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:37.759 are very interested in at the moment. Oh, no problem. Cool, 129 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:43.080 so as listening to the Jericho podcast that you did and it created quite the 130 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.759 buzz. First question to you is how did it feel being able to just 131 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:52.919 talk like that? Because you're not a social media guy, you haven't done 132 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:56.480 a lot of interviews. What did it feel like for you to just be 133 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:01.320 able to kind of express yourself in that way? A very crithartic. I've 134 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:05.759 basically been doing that podcast in my head for months while I was driving up 135 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:09.519 and down the roads, you know, especially a lot of times in the 136 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.159 later a part of my DVV run, I was driving alone a lot. 137 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.960 The Roman was out, so I'll just be like and then I'd be doing 138 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.559 it in my head. I always knew I can to come to Jericho with 139 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.919 that uh and just kind of get all that get all that baggage out of 140 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:30.000 the way, kind of like explain my side of the story. So I 141 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:33.399 had in my head, you know, a lot of and doing it in 142 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:35.519 my head. Some days it would be like a lot more venomous, and 143 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:39.200 some days it will be a lot more depending on how that day went, 144 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.960 and some days it would be a lot more nice, you know, towards 145 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:46.799 you know, w or whatever. But you know, I just hope it 146 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:50.720 didn't come off like negative or bitter or anything, because like once I started 147 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:54.840 going, yeah, like the emotion takes over, you know, and you 148 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.559 get like all hypes up. So I don't think it did. What I'd 149 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.879 listen to it back before I talk in hues now and uh, I hate 150 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:05.279 listening to myself talk, but you know, I don't think him up make 151 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:11.799 it, you know. But I just basically wanted to not just be sure 152 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:15.399 anything or try to like make myself look good so much they really wanted to. 153 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:20.720 I realized somebody had has to like really shine a spilight on exactly what 154 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:26.519 goes on backstage there because fans think they know. Yeah, people like you 155 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.399 probably think you know, but you're not backstage, so you don't really know. 156 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.639 So you know, I could help it out on the inside, you 157 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:37.720 know, because they all think out some kind of idiot or something. But 158 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:41.600 I can share help from the outside maybe you know so, But also I 159 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:45.399 saved all the money, so maybe now, well, that is something that 160 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.840 is absolutely a point you made. It's like you feel there's so many things 161 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:50.120 about the Jericknerer I wanted to kind of follow up on an expand on, 162 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:54.559 and one of them was that, uh, that statement that you feel like 163 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:58.440 you're eighteen years old again. But it's not I'm paraphrasing here, but like 164 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:01.080 with a big budget kind of like f you money, you can do what 165 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:05.639 you want, but you're not tied down, and you have all this experience 166 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:09.840 to bring with you to this next stage of your life in your early thirties 167 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.919 and and going forward. I thought that was a great analogy because I think 168 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:16.720 a lot of us think back to the more innocent days when the yet all 169 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:18.840 the choices in the world, you know what you were going to do, 170 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:22.600 and to have that feeling again after years in WWE, I thought that was 171 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.440 a real point of comment. Yeah, it's kind of the feeling that I 172 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:30.000 didn't anticipate that, but that's kind of a feeling that kind of came over 173 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:35.120 me. I'm like, WHOA, Like, it's kind of like starting over. 174 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:37.679 I mean, I'm not starting over. I'm starting pretty much right at 175 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:43.360 the top still, you know, but I in some you know, but 176 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.759 I could just start a whole new style from scratch, a whole new character 177 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:52.519 from scratch. I could try five different things I could try, I could 178 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:54.279 do all, you know, I could experiment. You know, I can't. 179 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:58.360 I can't fail at anything anymore, because like when you start when you're 180 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.639 eighteen, you know you have to, like you want to make it. 181 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.000 The goal is to make it as a wrestler. And I had that mentality, 182 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:09.279 like everybody does, you know, Like when I was you know, 183 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:11.840 people when I was a teenager, and people tell me, like, you 184 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:16.039 know, you're whatever, you're where I'm from, you know, nobody gets 185 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:18.720 out of there and does anything. But I was like, screw you, 186 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:24.000 Like I told Jericho, I'm not an ELF. I'm a dentist and I'm 187 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.519 gonna be double to be champion. I when did that. But like when 188 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.200 you're a double when you're eighteen, you know you want to make it. 189 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:31.919 If so, you you'll sign any contract to anybody puts in front of you. 190 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:35.080 You'll take any booking, you know, because you want to like be 191 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.480 on TV and you want to get paid. You want money and the championships 192 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:43.639 or whatever. You know. I've done all that now, So like now 193 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:48.960 I don't have to be distracted by like some kind of sake like carrot you're 194 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.679 chasing or whatever, brass rings. I don't have to be distracted by chasing 195 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:58.279 these things that are tangible accomplishments because I've already done all that. Now I 196 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:03.519 can just have fun putting together awesome and wrestling stuff, you know, and 197 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:09.279 AW is the perfect place to do that. AW does you talked at the 198 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.840 end of your latest video that's up of a a paradigm shift. AW is 199 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:18.240 being presented from the beginning when it was just a twinkling Cody and the Bucks 200 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:24.000 eye and talking to Tony Kahn about how to change wrestling. Your interview is 201 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:31.960 in your experience with WWE is such a perfect It's your character embodies what AW 202 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.960 represents because of the experience you're leaving and then how you're speaking about it. 203 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:41.720 And then also I think how fans are going to experience John Moxley in a 204 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:46.679 w you talked about Jericho, how perfect it kind of seems timing wise to 205 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:50.559 have your contract coming do being ready to leave and frustrated and committed to trying 206 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.000 something different, even if you had to start from scratch, creating something, 207 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.519 and then here is AAW talk about how that is feeding your ideas for your 208 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:07.639 care in AW starting at double or nothing and moving forward. It's all it's 209 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.759 all kind of touch and go, and I like to be kind of you 210 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:13.000 know, in the past few months, you know, I've just been thinking 211 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.919 to myself, like I don't know what I don't know what I'm going to 212 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.399 be as a wrestler. I don't know what I'm going to be the character, 213 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:22.039 you know, like, I don't know how fans are going to react 214 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:26.399 to me, you know, so a lot was like, I guess I'll 215 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:31.919 just figure it out as they go along. But that's usually when it's the 216 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:35.120 better stuff, like, for instance, the difference between aw W after double 217 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:41.639 or nothing. I told in the span of ten minutes was able to get 218 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:48.240 record three different promo type things that we're all good stuff with, like with 219 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.399 NOE, Like it was so easy. So I told cod I texted Cody, 220 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.440 like earlier in the day while I was hiding out, I was like, 221 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:56.440 hey, make sure there's a camera that falls me back after the thing, 222 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:02.440 because we're probably gonna want like backstage promo, just just a camera in 223 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:04.039 the hallway whatever, you know. He's like, cool, So there's a 224 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.759 camera waiting for me on him walking back. He goes, you, there's 225 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:08.200 this promo. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, let's do it. 226 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:14.480 Press record. Two minutes later, one take, say what I want to 227 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.000 say. There's your promo. That easy, don and done. No writers 228 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:22.799 needed, no approval needed, no, you know, just that So out's 229 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.519 supposed to be, you know, just point the camera at me and press 230 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:33.080 record. I know what I'm doing. And then and there's another thing that 231 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.879 Young Bucks had an idea for a thing for me and Joey Janella that was 232 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.600 kind of like a TuS. He's like, yeah, maybe he is smoking 233 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:42.600 a cigarette. Maybe we've seen him background. I was like, Okay, 234 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.679 it's cool. Maybe I grabb a cigarette phone And they're like, oh, 235 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.919 that's cool. Okay, and joe Jell comes over, but okay, ninety 236 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.159 seconds later we have another promo. Don and Dunk just like, hey, 237 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.559 that's cool. That's even better cool, Okay, just set collaboration with all 238 00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:57.440 these cool dudes. They're just like, oh yeah, because we know what's 239 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.919 good and what's not, you know what I mean. And there was another 240 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:03.039 one I don't know if an area. It's just like comedy thing. They're 241 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:04.799 like this kind of funny and I was like yeah sure. Thirty seconds later, 242 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.160 another one in the camp. Within ten minutes. I accomplished more than 243 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.720 I had in the last like six months of WW. You know we're about 244 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.279 to go to a commercial break. Why listened to commercial breaks? When you 245 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.680 can go VIP and experience our shows with the ads and plugs removed PW Torch 246 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:23.279 dot Com, slash go VP. That's pw torch dot com slash go vip 247 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:27.759 for full details, or go to Patreon Patreon dot com slash pw torch. 248 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:32.559 VIP rate start as low as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove the 249 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:36.599 ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at nine dollars in ninety 250 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:40.799 nine cents to treat yourself to a streamlined, add and plug free listening experience 251 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:48.799 with a VIP or Patreon membership. If you talked about the process in WWE 252 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.759 and a lot of people have how frustrating and stifling it is, and you 253 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:53.640 know, you're like, you even joke around with like the producers and writers. 254 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.079 This should take you know, three minutes, but we know it's going 255 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:03.640 to take an hour. What is that so institutionalized that it can't change or 256 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:10.839 is it easily fixable and ridiculously easily fixable? And if so, why doesn't 257 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:15.880 it change? Why? Why in that WWEE process is it so? Why 258 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:21.960 do they make it so hard? Because I mean, it is very institutionalized, 259 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:25.960 but I think it could be fixed very quickly. For instance, if 260 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:30.480 I'm going to do a one minute backstage promo, they need a light, 261 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.240 they need to find a place to do it if it's during the show. 262 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.400 You know, we're there are like six hours for the show, and somehow 263 00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:37.799 we never get all these pre kates done, and we're doing during the show 264 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.279 and we're getting busted by sound and you can only record them like during the 265 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:45.759 matches, whether there's no music playing. So but like you gotta have a 266 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:48.240 lighting guy over there, you got a sound guy over there, you gotta 267 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.359 have the all the lights set up and the you know, it takes a 268 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.640 team of six people for some reason. And those guys are all pros and 269 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.279 really great at their job and they make it look great. But but if 270 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.240 like one little thing is off, then will be like, you know, 271 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.119 hey, you have to redo it. There many times we're like two hours 272 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.480 ago, you did a little backstage, and then somebody will come up to 273 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:14.039 me and like, since that he saw this, he wants to he saw 274 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:15.920 something in the shot. He doesn't like, you got to do it again, 275 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.240 and like now you're going over night. You can't go over your match 276 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:19.559 because you got to go back and do this again. They're like, that's 277 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:26.839 stupid. It would be very easy to just like be like just film it. 278 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.519 However, it looks like real sports. If you catch an interview with 279 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:34.599 the coach at halftime in a locker room, you know, you don't somebody 280 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:38.240 might walk by in the background, you know, doesn't mean the shots that 281 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:41.319 you know, you still got the interview with the coach. I don't know 282 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:44.200 if that's a good example, you know, but like, for instance, 283 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:48.319 like those backstays, p almost have to get approved. They can get approved 284 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:52.720 by like one of the more top writers. But even after you're done, 285 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:55.880 you got to sit there and wait maybe fifteen minutes for one of the top 286 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:00.839 writers to come over watch it and give is okay. And he's only getting 287 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:03.599 gonna give us okay if he's one hundred percent sure. You think Vince is 288 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.720 gonna like yeah, and and uh, you know, I mentioned something on 289 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:14.720 Jericho's podcast about you know, I've never been scared I'm fired. A whole 290 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:18.440 lot of the boys feel the same way that, you know, we're always 291 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.039 pishing ideas, we're all you know, nobody's we're not scared of our jobs. 292 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:25.920 That does not go for the writers and producers. Writers and producers to 293 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:30.000 get fired at any second, because because somebody's ass is always on the lines 294 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:34.599 for something, and you know I've gone off script before. You know what 295 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:38.400 happens. Vince chased me down the hallway in Atlanta, who literally chased me 296 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.640 down the hallway during the show. He yelled me, you know, and 297 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:44.599 then they just so then the next week if you go off script, the 298 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:48.960 next week they're like more up your ass and they're making sure you don't go 299 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:52.519 off script again. You know what I mean, They're watching you. So 300 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.519 it's almost makes your job harder. And like, like, for instance, 301 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.759 that last few months, I get to gone off script any time I want 302 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:04.000 it, whether ins fire me, you know, I could have a big 303 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:10.000 part of the reason I wouldn't have is because somebody's ass would have been on 304 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.000 the line. Yeah, Like if I go off script because I think I'm 305 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:15.759 trying to be cool and do my thing, then the producer of the mask 306 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:21.000 gets fired or a writer gets fired, and he might have kids and mortgage. 307 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:22.759 I'm not going to do. I can't live with myself, so I 308 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:25.480 do that, you know what I mean. Somebody's ass is always on life 309 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:29.039 or something. So everybody, like, you know, writers and producers are 310 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.799 scaredness. You know, the boys are usually ones yelling at the writers and 311 00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:34.440 cruisers like oh gee, cayn't we just do it this way? And they're 312 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.680 like, I don't know, you know, and that's a weird dynamic. 313 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.680 Yeah, absolutely are there. Do you get the sense that the writers because 314 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.359 there's obviously scripts you've been handed and you've talked about waking up and dreading even 315 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:53.599 reading the promo scripts or the ideas, and it's just bad writing. It 316 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.599 doesn't fit your character. They don't know you. It's real obvious and it's 317 00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.400 corny. Yeah. Do you think, well, yeah, a lot of 318 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:07.039 that is not the writer's fault. Not all the writers are idiots. It's 319 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:11.119 not necessarily the writer's fault. It's that their job shouldn't exist. Even the 320 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:18.160 best writers can't be good at their job because their job shouldn't exist. If 321 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:22.039 you need a writer to write a promo for you, you suck at your 322 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:25.759 job and you shouldn't be in WWE. And there's the talent out there that's 323 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.519 good at it, that could get over on his own merits, that should 324 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.920 be here and not you. Do you know what I'm saying? I think 325 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:38.200 their job just shouldn't exist. They like the best writer inw writer guys I 326 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:45.000 like that are idiots. They cannot write a promo for me because they're not 327 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:48.640 me. It's like I was telling you the little backstage promo at at aw 328 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:55.000 two minutes, one take, one camera, easy money, and here's the 329 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:59.279 thing about that, and there's not me saying like this. I'm going to 330 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.480 try now to say this arrogantly like I'm so good. It was easy. 331 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:07.160 But it was easy, yeah, because it's not hard. Point I know 332 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:11.640 what I want to say, Point the camera at me before if I flow 333 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.559 the line. Who cares? It's real time. It's like real sports, 334 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:18.519 you know what I mean? Hold, Like, how many guys are capable 335 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:23.720 of that is? Is the Vince McMahon in his in his circle who believe 336 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.960 in this system. Who is their defense? Well, yeah, John, 337 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:33.039 you're super talented, but we got to do with all these other guys and 338 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:36.960 they don't have what you have. That doesn't excuse assigning you the same system 339 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:41.000 as other people. Or do you think, hey, to get hired in 340 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.880 WW, you should be good at promos or have a manager and that shouldn't 341 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:48.359 be a problem whatever. Only hire people who actually don't need to memorize the 342 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.559 script. I mean, you don't have to be great at promos to be 343 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:56.079 great and divid at being You know, there's plenty of successful wrestlers that weren't 344 00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:59.119 like the greatest in views or whatever, and you can get better at Aaron 345 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.319 beats and you can find your character and you can't. It's not that to 346 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:06.279 be coached or to have like not necessarily a promo written for you, but 347 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:08.759 maybe somebody throws you some ideas and you talk about it a little free flow. 348 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:15.079 I love collaborating, you know, but having a script written for you's 349 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:18.640 not collaborating. The guy's not going to get any better at coming up with 350 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.920 his own voice if you just keep right in minds for him. Like it's 351 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:27.279 a weird thing. Like like I felt like when I got when I was 352 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:33.119 in SCW, I was I felt I felt like I really got better all 353 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:40.079 around in range physically because I mean I worked my ass off in FCW, 354 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:42.079 because I was like I was not at the best point. I was not 355 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:45.319 a really good waste in life when I was fortunate enough to get Silent Adobe, 356 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:48.680 and I was not going to waste this opportunity. So when I was 357 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:53.000 in SW, I was like I was ready to go and I was hitting 358 00:24:53.000 --> 00:25:00.599 on working creatively with Dusty and Joey Mercury and William reveal there and like doing 359 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:06.279 an angle with William Regal that this was so creative, very satisfying from like 360 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.720 a beginning, middle and an end and it's just a piece of work. 361 00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:14.799 I was hitting on all cylinders so much down there that like my confidence was 362 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:18.279 such that like I was like, I can out I can out talk anybody 363 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:22.279 in the world, anybody in w W. Put me a B and I'm 364 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:26.640 good that I was like borderline, like arrogant, Like I was like, 365 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:30.960 I'm the fucking man on the mic. Is how I thought. Whether that's 366 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.240 true or not, it's you know, it doesn't matter because that's what I 367 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:40.119 felt. And how can anyone, how can anyone ever feel that way with 368 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:41.839 all the scripts being handed to them. That's part of it. But so 369 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.640 in the second you get to W say it's me and another guy and we're 370 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:51.000 both competing for the same spot, and we're both in the promo, say 371 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.119 I'm way better to say like I felt. What I was saying is I 372 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:57.880 felt my best weapon, my biggest weapon of my arsenal was that I could 373 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:03.400 talk. And when you get to W to B that's immediately taken out of 374 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.079 your arsenal because now the promos, this guy says this, this guy says 375 00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:11.079 this, this guy says this, this guy says this some stupid thing, 376 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:15.119 or I'm on the stage and you're in the ring or whatever, or standing 377 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.640 face to face in the ring trading insults and people are going ooh, but 378 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:23.000 nobody's hitting each other. I hate that. Yeah, So it's like everybody 379 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:27.079 gets to put in an even playing field. So if you had like Dusty 380 00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:32.839 Road and his prime, Riddy Pipe and his prime, they wouldn't necessarily get 381 00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:37.519 the chance to be a better talker than Baron Corbyn because all the scripts are 382 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.519 because it's scripted, you know what I'm saying. I mean, obviously they 383 00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.519 would make their stuff way better and it would shine through, you know, 384 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.640 but like it just it marginalizes everybody. Do you know what I'm saying. 385 00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:56.079 The system doesn't allow for somebody who might be and who might excel at authentic 386 00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.119 sounding promos, do even have a chance to figure out if that's something they 387 00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.279 can do. Yeah, Steve Austin comes into dado W. Steve Austin and 388 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:07.319 at prime comes into adode B in twenty nineteen. You don't have Austin three 389 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.480 sixteen, yep, you know. And in fact, it took him going 390 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.519 to ECW. I mean there's a million million other examples, you know. 391 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.119 Yeah, And it was Steve being kind of unleashed from the corporate television environment 392 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.880 and going to ECW and being produced by Paul Hayman and just letting loose and 393 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:26.200 all of a sudden he found his voice and he brought that with him to 394 00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.039 WW exactly. So, I mean, this isn't a new concept. I'm 395 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:33.920 not saying anything to you. I didn't say anything to Jericho. That's some 396 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.160 kind of revolutionary, groundbreaking way of thinking. People have been saying this for 397 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:42.319 like fifteen pointy years, you know, and you paid the timeline. I 398 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:45.400 mean, it seems like it was around two thousand and two, you know, 399 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.440 because Vince had Vincent matt At, Vince rousonet ferraras his main writers, 400 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.759 and when they gave notice, or they didn't give notices, when they just 401 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.000 quit, he was just left with nothing. And I think that defined him, 402 00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:00.640 or that that triggered him going, I need to have a lot of 403 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.119 writers so I'm never too dependent upon anyone. And then I think other things 404 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:06.519 happened too, you know, lack of competition, stefinitely wanted to make a 405 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:11.160 mark. They kind of got rolling with the outside the wrestling business writer's idea 406 00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.480 and it just manifested and what you kind of walked into when you arrived. 407 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:21.640 Yeah, I mean you could directly correlate the sale of WCW. I never 408 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:25.160 really thought about the two guys you just mentioned. I don't know, maybe 409 00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:30.960 that to correlate to you directly correlate that with me in twenty eighteen having these 410 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:36.799 stupid, embarrassing conversations with us the man and then talking having this conversation we'll 411 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:38.799 happen right now, you know, and the lack of competition and just this 412 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:48.200 system he built around himself. You know, in twenty twelve, NXT transitioned 413 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.920 into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch 414 00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:57.319 VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly look at this 415 00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:03.880 page in NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT 416 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.079 Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track 417 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.640 NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't work out. Exclusively for PW 418 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:22.079 Torch VIP members so, how many guys feel how many wrestlers in w B 419 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:27.279 feel men and women feel like you do that they're just in a system that 420 00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:32.319 isn't letting them actually express their actual voice. Are you caught? Do you 421 00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:33.559 think it's the vast, vast majority? Or do you think some of them 422 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.200 are kind of happy showing up and getting handled a script They past the hallway, 423 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.000 memorize it, and then regurgitate it and catch their check. Is there 424 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.759 some of that too? I think every everybody's different, everybody's a different place 425 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:51.599 in their life. Everybody's doing this for different reasons. Everybody's yes, not 426 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.720 everybody gets treated like total craps. Yeah, they know how to book people 427 00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.599 strong when they want to book them strong, you know. So so I 428 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.960 so there's probably a lot of people that are very happy. I mean, 429 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:10.519 there's probably some people that are just totally happy. They're just read the script 430 00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:12.200 or they don't care whatever. And there's probably some people that feel like me. 431 00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:17.200 And there's probably some people that, like one of my good friends there 432 00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:21.559 like are truth. He's just happy all the time. Whenever you give them 433 00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:25.319 He's just like, let's do it. Man's like he could. He just 434 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.680 he's totally down the clown me, he's whatever. And there's some people that 435 00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:37.759 like there's and there's a lot of people who like I feel like I always 436 00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:44.359 trying to be like grateful and stay humble and stay positive and not be like 437 00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:48.880 a negative person. You know. Probably sometimes I was because a lot of 438 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.400 people who are just like complain to his complain, you know, and they 439 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:56.200 just they read the scripts and all stuff too. It's always you know, 440 00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:02.119 people who just bits and don't like really try to like do the best or 441 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:03.240 whatever. I never wanted to be like that. I mean, ever, 442 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:11.799 everybody's different, you know, And working in WW is better than like waying 443 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.359 tar in the summer each for ten bucks an hour, you know what I 444 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:17.920 mean. Like you're still living your dreaming on TV. You know what I 445 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.319 mean. You but for me, I just got it, you know, 446 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:27.720 well, you know, and I think I mean when you talk about your 447 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.880 you know, when you go back to just wanting to be a wrestler and 448 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:34.720 for as long as you can remember and as soon as you were uh eighteen, 449 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.400 you're you're wrestling, and it's what you want to do, and it's 450 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:41.000 what you think about. That's the artist. And I don't think not everybody 451 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:45.759 wants to be an artist. Some people want to be led. There's nothing 452 00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:51.799 wrong with that. If you were inw just for the money, there's nothing 453 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.960 wrong with that. This is a business, you know. I'm just not 454 00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:00.400 like that with that. Do you do you have like is it ninety of 455 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:05.759 wrestlers in b are artists who don't just want to do what they're told and 456 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.160 collect their paycheck or is there a pretty diverse mix. I'd say it's a 457 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:13.960 diverse base. Ma. I mean, like I said, everybody's different from 458 00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:16.640 perks in their lives, different situation, different characters, some people who are 459 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:21.720 probably very happy with the characters, you know, some thing. It's all 460 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.640 different. Some people are learning get better, some people are Some people are 461 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.640 going to be cute stars that haven't broken out yet, that haven't found the 462 00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:30.000 thing that people were going to be, like whoa, We didn't know that 463 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.640 guy was gonna be who star? We didn't expect that or girl? You 464 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:37.119 know, So it's I think it's it's everybody's different. You know. I 465 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:42.400 can only speak to myself. I can only give my experience. I want 466 00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.799 to ask about Vince McMahon. You talked about your dealings with him. How 467 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:52.440 did how did that relationship with him develop and evolve or devolve and change over 468 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:54.960 time? Like talk about some of your your early impressions of him. Were 469 00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:00.559 you intimidated? Was he different than you expected? I know, Roman talked 470 00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:04.119 to Jericho a couple of years back about the Shield over time, feeling like 471 00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:07.079 they had a little more, a little more agency to maybe speak up about 472 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.480 things. Then early on did was that kind of a track that you can 473 00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:15.039 remember following too, where at first you were just Okay, it's Vince. 474 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:16.799 I got to do what he says, and then slowly you had thoughts that 475 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:22.559 differed, and then eventually you express them. Talk about that evolution. At 476 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:25.599 first, everybody's kind of intimidated by Bins because he's this mythical figure, you 477 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:29.319 know, and you know, to talk to him, you got to like 478 00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:30.839 go into his office. He's like the Wizard of Oz. You know. 479 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:36.960 Early on we dealt a lot with more just directly with Triple H you know, 480 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:38.799 and early on we weren't, you know, given our you know, 481 00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:42.599 we tried to just go with flow a living well we're not really we're actually 482 00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:45.000 kind of like gifts early on because we were trying not to get you know, 483 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:51.200 we didn't know how I was going to go. But for me personally, 484 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:57.759 when I was on my own, uh, you know, they always 485 00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:00.480 tell you it's very important to have a relationship with Vent. You gotta go 486 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:01.240 in, you gotta talk to him, you know. So I was always 487 00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:06.359 like okay, and I found and there's like ten layers that you have to 488 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:09.039 go through to get anything improved. Ultimately, everything comes down of its what 489 00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:15.159 fits, wants and everybody. Some people are scared, like producers and stuff. 490 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:16.719 They don't want to go in and pitch this new idea. They just 491 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:20.920 want to do what FN's told, Like Vince says we're going to do this. 492 00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:22.960 They just want you to go along with it because they don't want to 493 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.880 have to go back in and try to you know, unless they kiel strongly 494 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:35.880 or whatever. So when I've I got frustrated going like waiting for answers like 495 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:37.639 which way are we doing it? What are we doing We're doing Option A 496 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:40.559 or oscing be and like well, waiting to hear back from Vince. I 497 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:45.480 would just go. Once I realized I'm just gonna go ast this, and 498 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:49.320 I just started going in on the rigs and just going like and at least 499 00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:53.320 I'll get an answer even if if we're doing I want an option A and 500 00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:57.159 we're doing option B at least not like just no, and now I can 501 00:34:57.159 --> 00:35:00.360 work on option B. And I found that, like once you just straight 502 00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:04.000 to Vince and just hear from the horse's mouth, then you don't have to 503 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:07.159 go through these different layers of people to get an answer, you know. 504 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:08.880 So that's kind of how I started, just kind of going straight to him, 505 00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:13.519 and like we've always had a good friendly relationship, you know, uh, 506 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:15.960 even even to the end, you know, unless we were butting heads 507 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:22.320 about ideas and stuff, you know what I mean, But uh, yeah, 508 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.320 I just it's fun. And it was funny though, because like if 509 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.800 ever he's telling you, like no, we can't do that, we can't 510 00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:30.239 do that, that's stupid, And then you don't find them as a lost 511 00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.599 Vince and the us Vince, and Vince is like I love it, and 512 00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:37.000 Vince likes your idea, and you come on, so the Vince isn't doing 513 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:39.599 it in my way? Then everybody changes there too. Then everybody's like, 514 00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:42.840 oh and then all of a sudden, your idea is a great idea in 515 00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.719 the world. You know, it's just all what it's wants, so you 516 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:49.800 know I was sounded just easier whether I won or lost that argument to just 517 00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:52.360 go straight to him well. The Weight Keller Progressing post shows and Weight Killer 518 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:59.559 Progressing podcasts. Anytime you're watching w w E Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite 519 00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:01.440 in parta Killer, send us an email if you've got thoughts on the show 520 00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:05.880 or a topic you want us to address or a question for us. Wade 521 00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:12.519 Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Weadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If 522 00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:15.280 there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want us to address on 523 00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:20.280 our main podcast during our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade Keller Podcast 524 00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:23.199 at pw toorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what 525 00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:27.159 you think of what we're saying, and let us know what you want us 526 00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:30.639 to talk about and ask us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch 527 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:38.760 dot com. Did your oppression events change over time as you left your twenties 528 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.480 and entered your thirties, as you became a veteran of the locker room, 529 00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:45.079 as you had ups and downs with him? Or did was it kind of 530 00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:47.280 the same from early on you went it, you talked to him, and 531 00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:51.039 you guys just had a certain dynamic and it it was pretty static. It 532 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:55.159 stayed same the whole time you were there. Well, for instance, I 533 00:36:55.159 --> 00:37:04.239 always I'm actually like, Vince always liked me. Yeah, even it's like 534 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:07.280 he's asked me to do something that I didn't want to do and I was 535 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:12.039 trying to get out of it and I'll lose the argument, go do it 536 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:19.280 and then pull it off. It kept it like we're always like he always 537 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.199 like and he has over over the years liked a lot of my ideas, 538 00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:25.000 you know, and it's gone with it, you know, sometimes occasionally, 539 00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:32.400 but like towards the end, and especially like in the last few months and 540 00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:37.039 especially now looking back, I always like kind of picture myself like I'm more 541 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:40.440 on Vince's guys because he likes me. Now I'm like, looking back at 542 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:46.760 it, I'm like, Vince is like the problem. Vince himself is the 543 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:52.559 problem. It's a shame. I am not trying to like turn them down 544 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:57.159 when I say this. I'm trying to help situations if you can at least, 545 00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:59.199 you know, or at least I mean, I'm not gonna be able 546 00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:02.960 to help it, you know. But I'm telling you that's a problem. 547 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:07.639 I was just there. I know the ins and outs. He's a problem. 548 00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:12.039 And it's a shame because there's so much great talent. There may have 549 00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:16.079 never been more talent there. All the wrestlers are awesome, there's so many, 550 00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:21.239 so many people. It's some's charisma and somebody s's talent and just it's 551 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:25.679 the pool of talent is incredible, and the resources they have and all the 552 00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:30.400 television and the network and all this stuff. It should be like, it 553 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:37.599 should be so great. And the one guy who's screwing it up, I 554 00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:44.400 think is Vince. I mean NFDE. Everybody seems to like NFD. I've 555 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:49.599 never been there, I've never worked like, I've never been around like NFT 556 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:53.119 takeover to see like how those days go. So I can't speak on how 557 00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:59.440 they're how like I can speak on a day in the life of me like 558 00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:01.599 I did, But I can't tell you how it is acts team, But 559 00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:07.679 everybody seems to like the show and what's the what's the key ingredient? Just 560 00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:15.239 missing? Yeah, you know, so, I mean he's he's the guy 561 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:22.199 who created wrestling. But I feel like now he's a guy who's really holding 562 00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:24.840 he's holding his own company back. You know, he used to like, 563 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:30.800 yeah, maybe just step aside, take a break, going a fishing and 564 00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:32.480 can't. That's what you know. He just doesn't don't want to. He 565 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:37.039 doesn't work like that. But like, maybe maybe take for a month. 566 00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:39.079 Maybe there's what Hunter run things for a month and Jesse, what happens? 567 00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:45.519 You know, maybe you know, maybe he'll I don't know. Do you 568 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:51.719 sense that there's deep admiration and reverence for Vince among wrestlers or do you think 569 00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:55.760 the more common thought is is your stance that he actually at this point. 570 00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:00.519 People might have different ideas of when it when it occurred or when when it 571 00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:06.199 became the case, but that he is the problem. I I mean, 572 00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:08.599 I don't want to speak to everything else. And it's not a lack of 573 00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:14.480 and I have all the respect in the world for events, because nobody works 574 00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:19.320 harder, put the more effort. And obviously I have nothing gratitude to a 575 00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:22.920 dot to be, but you know, it's supposed to be genius. And 576 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:29.880 I like early on since had a couple of things where like the example before, 577 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:32.440 I was wrong and this was right, and I was like oh, 578 00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:38.159 you're right. Yeah, I am as seth wrong. And it was like 579 00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.679 it was a summer plant, one of the first big match, right, 580 00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:47.159 and I'm it's trying to build to a moment where like I've got him more. 581 00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:51.880 I want him to beat him, but I'm going to punish him first 582 00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:57.960 crimes. And that's why I guess who Yeah, which sounds ridiculous now. 583 00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:04.039 I wanted to take up of buyers from none of the ring and tools and 584 00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:06.960 then grab him and like go like I was gonna get his tongue out. 585 00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:09.519 I said, it was my idea. Yeah, it wasn't that. It 586 00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:12.320 was something close to that, because I was trying to ask her, like 587 00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:15.360 what would he falls something I could do to him that was like, now 588 00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:20.639 you're gonna get it, you know, Yeah, that's not a good idea, 589 00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:22.840 but I thought it was a good idea at the time, and I 590 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:24.639 was convinced that it was a good idea. Right, So we going, 591 00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:28.920 We're going eventually pitch him our idea and he's like, no, that's too 592 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:30.480 much or whatever, and I'm like, damn it. And so he's like, 593 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:32.320 well, what else can we do? And he thinks about it, 594 00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:37.039 and he signed him for thirty seconds. Then he goes, could your curb 595 00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:39.039 stop him? And we're both in me and said the light bulb goes over, 596 00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:42.840 and we're like, that's perfect. Why didn't we think about that? 597 00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:45.519 Because he been like curb stumping me in the week's previous. So I'm like, 598 00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:50.400 that's the ultimate poetic thing. And it was the most over thing in 599 00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:53.159 the match, Like it was great, it was so perfect, and we're 600 00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:58.079 both afterward like damn, Vince. Oh he can pulled one out of his 601 00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:00.239 hat. He's still the man. He's still genius, you know what I 602 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:02.599 mean. Every once in a while there's one of those. I always try 603 00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:06.079 to give him the benefit of a doubt, or even though I go to 604 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:07.320 the ring and I told him this when I talk to somebody, even when 605 00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:12.880 I go to the ring and I think that this idea sucks, but is 606 00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:17.360 Vince's idea. I'm gonna try my best and I might be wrong. Maybe 607 00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:20.559 Vince was right, And every once in a while you're like, oh that 608 00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:23.840 did work, huh, But also probably more often than not. And I 609 00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:25.760 told him this, I said, I go out there and I go, 610 00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:30.400 Nope, I was right. This idea just sucks, you know, So 611 00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:34.239 I always try to give him the benefit of the doubt that like he's Vince, 612 00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:37.360 he created wrestling, he's the genius. Like maybe he knows I'm just 613 00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.679 an idiot. Maybe he knows better than me. I hope that he does. 614 00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:46.679 But over time, especially looking back and in the last few months I 615 00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:52.360 had, I didn't see a lot of this genius that is Vince McMahon. 616 00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:55.239 I think he was in like the eighties, he was a genius when he 617 00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:59.800 created Hull Comania and he took over all the territories and he FORESDAW Cable Television 618 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.719 that he was a genius in twenty nineteen, I don't think he knows what's 619 00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:07.440 going on, you know, so you need to figure it out or step 620 00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.400 aside and let somebody knows what's going on do it. How do you feel 621 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:13.880 about Triple Ahs. We talked about working with him more early on with the 622 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.239 Shield, and he has looked at as the when you look at the NST 623 00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:19.880 products, which I'm a huge fan of takeovers, a huge fan of NXT 624 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:23.800 and that presentation of wrestling is that does that translate? Is Triple achic guy? 625 00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:27.400 You think would he already said let him take over for a month, 626 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.639 But do you have confidence that he has what it takes to take this gigantic 627 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:36.840 machine that is WWE on the main roster and succeed. I mean, who 628 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:42.159 else is there? You know? I mean he's clearly been preparing for this, 629 00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.679 like when Vince isn't there. He's the guy you defer to, you 630 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:51.679 know, so you know he's got You've got good ideas. His ideas are 631 00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.639 his ideas. But he's a lot more. You know, he's very cerebral. 632 00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:59.400 You know, he's not like a super open collaborative like, oh cool, 633 00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:02.000 do this, do that? Do that? Thinks about stuff a lot, 634 00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:07.079 But I mean, I just think it's a much better option between the 635 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:14.400 two of them. Yeah, if it's Sunday, it's Wrestling Night in America 636 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:19.280 on PW Torchdailycast dot com. Join me, PW torchcalumnus Greg Parks and a 637 00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:22.480 rotating lineup of co hosts as we focus our conversation on the big shows in 638 00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:27.000 pro wrestling. We also take phone calls and emails live on the air, 639 00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:30.800 taking the pulse of the wrestling fan base. You can listen live on Sunday 640 00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:35.039 nights at eight pm Eastern. Visit PW Torchdailycast dot com. For information, 641 00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:37.800 including the call in number and link to the live stream, call us at 642 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.960 five one five six oh five nine three four five and email the show at 643 00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:47.159 w NIA live Cast at gmail dot com. Our schedule changes on pay per 644 00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:51.840 view weekends when we go live right after the pay perview ends on Saturday or 645 00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:54.079 Sunday nights. Find a link to the live stream, along with the call 646 00:44:54.159 --> 00:45:00.199 in number and email in our detailed payperview reports at pw torch dot com. 647 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:04.280 Our show is part of the pw torch Daily Cast lineup. After it streams 648 00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.400 live, it becomes available to download late on Sunday nights. Search pw torch, 649 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:12.280 do your podcast app and subscribe to the PW torch Daily Cast, or 650 00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:15.639 stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find full details on the 651 00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:29.960 PW torch Daily Cast lineup at pw torch dailycast dot com. Are there philosophical 652 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:35.440 things with Triple H that that you think would would overhaulwe when it comes to 653 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:38.719 the things that you had the most problem with, which is wrestlers having the 654 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:45.039 creative freedom to be themselves and be authentic and steer their character in the ways 655 00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:46.639 that they wanted them to go. Even if the big even if the outline 656 00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:51.000 structure, we want you as a face facing this heel and here's kind of 657 00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:53.239 a story arc for four months. We want to land at SummerSlam with with 658 00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:58.480 a blowoff. Now you guys go figure it out. Is and do you 659 00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:00.840 think Triple A should be more along that line or would He's still micromatics, 660 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:06.159 but just be a better micromatic. I think he would be more open and 661 00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:10.159 given people more freedom. But I think but he's also It's also he's smart 662 00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:14.239 and he sees things his way. So if he sees you doing something and 663 00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:17.440 he envisions a better way, he'll come over and be like, you know, 664 00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:20.679 let me ask the question, maybe we could do this way. And 665 00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:22.000 a lot of times you're like, oh, that's even cooler, you know, 666 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.559 because you know he sees television and he does. You know, he's 667 00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:29.920 the closest thing I guess to vince that we have, you know, so 668 00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:34.440 you know, I mean you had to ask somebody in NXT that you know 669 00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.440 is around that just system, you know, to like too for me to 670 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.840 give you a real yea of what it would look like, you know, 671 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:44.840 but generally guys who were around him in NXT, who you've worked with and 672 00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.639 been close to and collaborated with. It's not like, oh, think they 673 00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:50.960 would be worse with Hunter, you know, count your blessings. Vince is 674 00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:52.559 still alive. You never hear that. Yeah, but I mean it's it's 675 00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:57.079 not like he wouldn't be like it's a free for all now, you know, 676 00:46:57.280 --> 00:47:00.599 because a lot of times you'll explain to You're like, there's I wanted 677 00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:01.960 to do stuff. Well He'll be like, no, we can't do that, 678 00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:05.960 and I'm like, why not you I don't want to like bleed everywhere 679 00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.320 or whatever whatever it is. And he'll be like or say something that He'll 680 00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:12.239 be like, well, if we do that, I understand you think it's 681 00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:15.800 cool, but we will lose a ten million dollars sponsor. And I'm like, 682 00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:21.119 if that's kind of hard to argue, cool five, you know what 683 00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:22.880 I mean. Okay, I guess it. So he's not you know, 684 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.719 he's so it wouldn't be like a free for all. But I mean maybe 685 00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:30.039 it'd be better. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. You talked a 686 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:36.480 lot with Jericho about your frustrations for individual ideas that were more recent during the 687 00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:39.000 time that you were in the Shield. The majority of the time talk about 688 00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:43.760 how that how that dynamic evolved. It took a while for you know, 689 00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:47.719 Seth to become the architect and everybody kind of because at first I thought you 690 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:52.199 were the vocal leader and you were the guy who when when you had the 691 00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:55.079 mic and you were talking, everyone kind of stopped what they were doing because 692 00:47:55.079 --> 00:48:00.800 it seemed like you, to me were the architect of the presentation. And 693 00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:04.639 how did that change and how did that dynamic work, especially as Step gained 694 00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:09.039 experience and Roman became the air apparent to the top spot that Fince wanted to 695 00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:14.360 feature. I think I did a lot of talking in the beginning, just 696 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:22.719 because I think I was the most comfortable talking. Yeah, So like and 697 00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:25.559 I think they, uh, I mean, we were just reading scripts, 698 00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:30.000 so you know. So it's like, man, I remember, like the 699 00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:34.800 first day, they never gave us see I've done a whole of two hours. 700 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.719 I guess so many these curtain stories. So like the first day we 701 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:42.800 ever cut of Tromo and over the shield and we didn't sit down interview with 702 00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:47.599 Cold and we're like, okay, cool, and I'm coming up with a 703 00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:51.440 deer sport, like we can say, like we really know what we're going 704 00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:52.960 to be. You know, we know where the shield we're you know, 705 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:55.880 we have the outfit. You know, it's very exciting. You know, 706 00:48:55.880 --> 00:49:00.599 we're coming up with gimmick and we're creating on our own, and this is 707 00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:06.239 script and it's like this sucks about stuff about like the board at directors. 708 00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:07.599 It's like I can't really make any sense to it. You know, I'm 709 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:14.440 like, okay, but at this point I'm so naive. I don't think 710 00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:16.719 we really have to say the script. I think there's just like a suggestion. 711 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:22.719 Because even though I was in CW, you hear about less scripted promos 712 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.239 and I kind of just thought it was just my nanty. I just thought 713 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:30.519 that was like turning a phase, like oh yeah, you know scripted promote. 714 00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:32.280 It's not. They were talking about like the formats of the shows and 715 00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:37.719 that we put promo and like some suggested Jim Burbis, I didn't think you 716 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:45.239 actually read the scripts. That blew my mind. And I remember like so 717 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:47.119 we're like, yeah, maybe we'll say something like this, and the writer 718 00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:50.800 like, no, you say this is what you're gonna say. I'm like 719 00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:52.480 yeah, but I mean I had this idea. What and he's like, 720 00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:59.280 no, this is what are you gonna say and you know, the writer 721 00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:01.360 one right, don't want to take pire or whatever. But it was very 722 00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:06.440 clear to us we were just saying exactly what was on the script. And 723 00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.719 I remember kind of just like distant, sinking feeling in the back of my 724 00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:16.000 brain like, oh, no, you've made a terrible mistake. It really 725 00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:22.360 means scripted promost, you know. And the first ever in ring promo he 726 00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:25.800 did. I remember very well because I was pretty nervous, because like, 727 00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:30.679 you can put me in front of twenty other people that I'm not nervous at 728 00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:36.159 all. I'm probably more comfortable in that scenario than just sitting here talking to 729 00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:37.559 somebody like let them know, or like being in front of the room with 730 00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:44.639 people, you know, if I was doing my thing. But I never 731 00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.920 memorized the script and read it. You know, I'm not an actor, 732 00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:52.960 but like I'm fairly nervous about this, right, And it's like I have 733 00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:54.719 a line that says that line. Then he's got a lot, you know, 734 00:50:54.800 --> 00:51:00.320 and so I'm like, all right, we got we memorized the hell 735 00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:04.320 out of the script. We go up to rafter memorize and script. You 736 00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:06.320 know, I got stripped in my pocket. You know, we come out 737 00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:12.159 and we delivered to the key and we're all high five and after all we're 738 00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:14.760 like when they have that promo first didn't ring promo? All right? And 739 00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:16.679 it felt like how good to be like talking in front of the full arena 740 00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:19.480 for the first time, you know, And I was like, yeah, 741 00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:22.679 all right, good feeling. And then like as the dust sttle a little 742 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:25.039 than adrenaline wear left, I was like, what were we talking about? 743 00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:30.920 And I don't know, I'm like, what what do we even really just 744 00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:35.440 say? I can't really tell you what we just said. I mean, 745 00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:37.079 that was like the first promo I ever cut in the ring, you know, 746 00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:42.679 yeah, with the shield and the evolution of it. Did it Did 747 00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:49.800 you ever feel proud of the micwork of the promos of the Did you ever 748 00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:52.519 have enough input where you felt like you were you guys were able to steer 749 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:53.960 something in a different direction than what was handed to you at the beginning of 750 00:51:53.960 --> 00:51:59.519 the day. A couple uh, A couple in there, Yeah, I 751 00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:01.519 did. I did it, like I don't know. One time, it's 752 00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:07.880 like the uh one time he was like it was me versus step again and 753 00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:10.679 do a promo in the ring, And it was like looks pretty good because 754 00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:13.639 like I think road Dogs answer me, He's like, yeah, I want 755 00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.239 to do like almost like a shoot promo kind of thing or you say something 756 00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:19.559 like that, and I'm like okay, So I like get with the writer 757 00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:22.599 and I tell him everything I want to say and he writes it down and 758 00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:25.920 it's still a script, but at least it's coming from me. But it 759 00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.079 was like exceptionally better than anything I would normally do. And it was like 760 00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:34.519 backstage people were like, oh my god, and Evince like Vince came up 761 00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:37.719 with hugged this faulty like throwney, you know, and I'm like, I'm 762 00:52:37.719 --> 00:52:40.519 gonna say, road I'm like, so much easier it is, and you 763 00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:44.159 just let me say what I want to say, you know. I mean, 764 00:52:44.199 --> 00:52:46.000 I can't remember. It's just the promo, you know. But it 765 00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:50.039 was like one of the good ones. You know. Some of the stuff 766 00:52:50.119 --> 00:52:54.119 me and uh, some of the stuff me in set did on the well 767 00:52:54.199 --> 00:52:59.239 we met him, initially got back together. It was like a couple of 768 00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:02.239 weeks story and then eventually meet him like we right then we put the fist 769 00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:07.159 together for the first time. Yeah, and a place when bananas you never 770 00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:09.000 hear pop like that for just two dudes sticking their hands out. You know, 771 00:53:09.239 --> 00:53:12.320 a lot of that stuff was pretty good. You know that was a 772 00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:20.360 little scripted, but it was still pretty good stuff. You don't have to 773 00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:22.400 wait for the way Keller Prog Wrestling post show to find out what I thought 774 00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.159 of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out my 775 00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:30.599 reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My 776 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:35.400 written report will tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, 777 00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:39.199 and it will also analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips on 778 00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:43.599 what I am watching as it airs. So check it out every Monday night 779 00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:49.280 and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay per 780 00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:52.719 views. I cover those live at pw torch dot com with a detailed written 781 00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:55.159 report with star ratings, and of course you can find other TV reports from 782 00:53:55.239 --> 00:54:00.960 other contributors to pw torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling, and more. 783 00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:05.400 Check it out pw torch dot com your first stop for TV and pay 784 00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:19.719 per view written reports. If you look back at the Journey of the Shield, 785 00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:22.840 do you ever or your journey in WWE. Do you ever wonder what 786 00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:27.920 would have been different if the Shield was informed and you came in as Dean 787 00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:30.840 Ambrose but not part of the Shield, And if that would have been better 788 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:35.639 or worse or you have no idea, it's probably worse, Yeah, because 789 00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:38.239 here's why. Like for instance, when I uh, I was originally going 790 00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:42.519 to come in and do a thing with Nick Foley, which I was so 791 00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:46.559 excited about. Yeah, and we started it. We started like a little 792 00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:52.000 online war and everything, and it was gonna little buzz you know. I 793 00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:57.320 wasn't named, so nobody knew it was, you know, but it turned 794 00:54:57.360 --> 00:55:00.239 out fully And if he was injured, he would never wrestle again, so 795 00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:04.119 he couldn't get cleared d wrestle. So it didn't happen. So I sat 796 00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:07.920 on the shelf for a while waiting for the Shield to come along. Now, 797 00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:12.440 in my mind, this thing with me and fully was the greatest angle 798 00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:15.440 of all time. Like I had all the promos in my head. I 799 00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:19.480 can't imagine awesome promos Nick had in his head. And if we had got 800 00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:22.480 together and started coming up with like I mean, dude, in my mind, 801 00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:24.920 this is like this is gonna be the greatest angle of all time, 802 00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:29.440 like this is gonna be class I'm gonna have a classic feud right off the 803 00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:32.920 bat. But what would have happened, which I didn't know this at the 804 00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:37.920 time, was all I came in and they would have given me a script 805 00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:40.920 and I would have been like what And I would have reacted poorly, and 806 00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:44.880 it would have been like this guy can't, he can't, he's not He's 807 00:55:44.920 --> 00:55:49.159 no good if he doesn't get it because I went you know what I mean? 808 00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:52.760 Yeah, it would have been It wouldn't have been me and mixed just 809 00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:57.559 like cutting promos doing our thing. It would have been scripted by like some 810 00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:01.199 stupid writers. And then I would have been like I would have reacted poorly 811 00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:05.280 to these scripts. And then right off the bat they were said I had 812 00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:07.440 a bad at Sue and they were shit candy. Is what would happen? 813 00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:15.519 Probably maybe who knows. You know, you can't really speculate how much did 814 00:56:15.800 --> 00:56:22.559 seth And and Roman and you keep each other sane from a creative standpoint, 815 00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:25.280 or did you guys like was one of you did one of you talk the 816 00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:29.199 other one off the cliff for going crazy a lot? Or was it one 817 00:56:29.199 --> 00:56:35.119 guy in particular, everyone took turns. I mean I had when the Shield, 818 00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:39.760 when we were the Shield originally, I hadn't started going crazy yet because 819 00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:43.599 like we knew we had all this stuff in the future. Yeah, you 820 00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:46.760 know, yeah, so like everything was pretty positive back then, you know 821 00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:52.760 for the most part. Okay, yeah, it just just still seemed like 822 00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:54.440 we had this whole future ahead of us, you know, so there was 823 00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:59.360 no you know, we're just trying we're still just trying to like it was 824 00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:01.199 still new. You know, We're starting to make money for the first time. 825 00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:05.880 We're like we're starting to climb the ladder. We were starting to become 826 00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:08.519 bigger fixtures, like in the locker room and becoming like guys that are relied 827 00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:15.320 upon more. And it's just like it's it's it's still like really fun. 828 00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:17.239 You know, we're experiencing all this different stuff for the first time. You 829 00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:22.760 know, what, was there someone in the locker room. It doesn't even 830 00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:25.079 have to be at the very beginning, but it could be who was a 831 00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:30.960 go to person for you that that you were able to be talked, you 832 00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:34.760 know, talk down from situations when you were upset, or gave you good 833 00:57:34.760 --> 00:57:37.719 advice. Did that person exist for you or did you just kind of have 834 00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:40.440 to go go off on your own and just kind of vent and recover from 835 00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:45.400 the frustrations. I mean not really, because everybody's dealing with their own everybody's 836 00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:49.480 got their own problems. You know. Like one guy that always get one 837 00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:52.559 guy who always you know, like uh, gave me good advice and like 838 00:57:52.920 --> 00:58:00.199 always was always working to make things better a lot the same way I was 839 00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:04.000 with Hericho. Yeah, Like Jericho will sit outside Vince's offers for forty five 840 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:07.119 minutes and make sure he like puts in the work to make sure he gets 841 00:58:07.159 --> 00:58:10.440 and sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses, you know, same as me. 842 00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:14.079 And I always try to like be like that. And he gave me, 843 00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:15.079 you know, good advice about how to talk to Vince. You know, 844 00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:17.719 don't talk to events while he's eating. He won't pay an attention to 845 00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:22.840 you. Stuff like that. Yeah, we won't. Guy. You know, 846 00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:25.239 going back to Vince for a second, you talked about the feedback that 847 00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:28.639 that you would get, and he would give positive feedback when he liked the 848 00:58:28.639 --> 00:58:34.599 way something went did was that folk did he have an equal amount of focus 849 00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:37.119 or a considerable amount of focus on match quality and the story told in the 850 00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.280 ring, or was it focused on other things like you know, you talk 851 00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:45.360 about you talked to Jericho about you know how Tony Kin's a wrestling fan and 852 00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:51.000 Evince is kind of a sports entertainment businessman who maybe lost touch with aspects of 853 00:58:51.039 --> 00:58:53.519 being a fan. Was he a fan of just a really good wrestling match 854 00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:58.199 or was it all about the creative storylines and the prescripted promos with him? 855 00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:02.239 If you tell him us story, you know, if you uh, you 856 00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:07.119 know, work the leg and then go back to the leg, or there's 857 00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:13.079 an angle, or there's somebody at ringside, I don't know, whatever, 858 00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:16.079 whatever it is, as long as it's like a story, he's into it. 859 00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:22.159 He doesn't care about the moves or the like wrestling wrestling, he doesn't 860 00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:24.800 care about I've seen so many times like dudes who go out there and tear 861 00:59:24.840 --> 00:59:30.039 it up and have this great what I think is a great wrestling match and 862 00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:32.960 do a bunch of high spots or whatever, and then he was just tar 863 00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:36.679 to shreds and be like, you guys sucked. I was terrible. It's 864 00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:38.840 worst much I've ever seen. Like you wouldn't believe some of the stuff that 865 00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:45.800 he just buries and the people that he just rides so hard that they'd be 866 00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:50.159 like, what I thought that was awesome? You know. But but he's 867 00:59:50.199 --> 00:59:52.960 got his own taste, you know, and if if you don't give him 868 00:59:53.119 --> 01:00:00.400 exactly his taste, and you know, well the Weight Teller Progressing post shows 869 01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:07.480 and Weight Killer Progressing podcasts. I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host 870 01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:10.760 Wrestling Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to find the best 871 01:00:10.760 --> 01:00:15.760 wrestling from the smallest places. There are thousands of matches happening every week, 872 01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:19.280 so Wrestling Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and women who could 873 01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:22.599 be big time stars in a few years. There are plenty of podcasts to 874 01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:25.599 voters at w W and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasium's 875 01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:30.360 local wrestling hotspots around the country. We can't wait to help you find the 876 01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:32.559 true hidden gems of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris complain 877 01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:37.440 about bad referees and justin bemoaning dog pole fins. Don't forget my feudal search 878 01:00:37.480 --> 01:00:40.800 to see a blue Thunderbomb win a match. How can. I like the 879 01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:45.280 name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from around the country, so just 880 01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:50.360 as Prestige Action, West Coast, Pro, Revolver and Beyond Wrestling. Actually, 881 01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:52.920 Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling. No, I 882 01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:55.079 mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester, oh right. Our show's part of the 883 01:00:55.119 --> 01:01:00.760 PW Toys Daily Cast lineup and typically drops on Thursdays. W torch in your 884 01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:05.719 podcast app and subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast or stream our shows directly 885 01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:09.559 from PW touch dot com. Find full details on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at 886 01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:22.320 Pwtorchdailycast dot com. Do you do people say Vince is different than he used 887 01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:27.519 to be or he's just a slightly more exaggerated version of what he's always been. 888 01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:30.360 I think it's probably what he's always been. That the world has changed 889 01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:36.519 drastically around him, you know, and just the business and the product has 890 01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:38.639 changed, like three hours of raw Like they get why they do it, 891 01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:44.639 they get paid, but I don't. It's just it's too much. It 892 01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:49.320 like dilutes the hell out of the products, and I mean having like there's 893 01:01:49.400 --> 01:01:54.360 just so much products raw SmackDown to a blah By. It's like all this 894 01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:59.599 it just gets diluted after a while, especially when it's all produced and all 895 01:01:59.719 --> 01:02:04.159 look the same. Yeah. You know, Daniel Brian talked about showing up 896 01:02:04.159 --> 01:02:07.360 at TV and dreading. You know, dreading is finding out what part of 897 01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:10.440 the show he's going to be on, because you know the crowd is going 898 01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:13.719 to be burned out by the time you get to that third hour, and 899 01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:16.559 that just void after the opening segment in the third hour. Yeah, and 900 01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:21.599 like there's geez, I mean and like the opening segments from fifteen minutes promos 901 01:02:21.639 --> 01:02:23.800 and stuff. But I mean it's like, also, I don't know how 902 01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:28.920 to fill three hours every single week with good stuff because you can only give 903 01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:31.400 him so much wrestling, because even the biggest wrestling thing can only watch so 904 01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:36.400 much wrestling, So you end up giving away all these pay per view matches 905 01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:39.480 on TV. Like I just like, go back to an hour. I 906 01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:43.039 don't know, gee, I don't know the answer. You know, I'm 907 01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:45.480 not a genius I can tell you how to fill it. I don't know 908 01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:47.639 what you should fill that three hours with. But three hours is the hell 909 01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:51.679 of a lot of time to fill. Smack Down is much more manageable because 910 01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:59.360 it's only two hours. Yeah, And like, one thing I always thought 911 01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:04.639 was like they retread the same matches over and over and over, and well, 912 01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:07.599 one problem I never had that a lot of guys that are being the 913 01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:10.480 worst position than me that I can ever complain about is that some guys just 914 01:03:10.599 --> 01:03:15.719 don't ever get used. I was always at least doing something. Yeah, 915 01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:19.880 Like there's some guys that just sit there and just don't get used. But 916 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:24.239 the guys that are getting used get like overused. You see the same matches 917 01:03:24.280 --> 01:03:27.920 that are like pay per view quality matches, but you see it's three weeks 918 01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:31.559 in a row, the same opponents and stuff, and they just just keep 919 01:03:31.639 --> 01:03:35.199 throwing. So it's like I always thought, like, why don't they do 920 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:40.320 instead of like doing me versus Ray Wyatt and then doing it again the next 921 01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:44.880 week, why don't they do like me versus Ray Wyatt and then go, 922 01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:46.239 Well, we're gonna show you what happened with Bray White and Indian Ambros. 923 01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:50.800 Last week. We'll get to that, won't when we come back this week. 924 01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:53.800 Tyler Breeze is in action. Yep, that's then named Bray White at 925 01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:58.840 home, so we get extra day off. Yeah, and Let Tyler Braes 926 01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:02.440 have a week on Raw. We have all this talent, but you know, 927 01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:05.840 white white, give Tyler Breeze a shot. He's just sitting back there. 928 01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:08.800 What do you put him on the main event every bring week? You 929 01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:15.679 know why? Why? Because whether it's me or Seth or whoever, Kevin 930 01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:20.960 Owens or whoever's doing the same long matches every week with the same opponents, 931 01:04:21.079 --> 01:04:27.039 Drew McIntyre, we'd be totally cool with that, like, hey, oh, 932 01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:30.000 if I don't have to, we're gonna twenty minute match our role. 933 01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:31.000 As much as we like doing that, if you do it three weeks in 934 01:04:31.039 --> 01:04:34.840 a row, you'd be happy to give somebody else a shot. Let somebody 935 01:04:34.880 --> 01:04:39.400 else get in there. You know, your body's banged up after a while. 936 01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:42.559 You know, TV is the last day of the week, So some 937 01:04:42.599 --> 01:04:45.840 of us by the time we get to Monday, we're banged up. And 938 01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:47.280 you're like, oh, I hope I just have a promo and they're like, 939 01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:50.280 nope, you're in a ladder match, Like oh my god. You 940 01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:54.079 know, and we'd love to be like, hey, we're sending you all. 941 01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:58.400 We're giving Tyler Breeze or Chad Gable or whatever. We're giving them a 942 01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:00.079 shot this week. Paula Cruz is going to be to main event. Why 943 01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:02.760 not? I don't know. I don't know if that's good. Why not? 944 01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:06.840 You know, we got all this talent exactly, that's just an idea 945 01:05:08.360 --> 01:05:10.679 and they can't get over if they don't have TV time. And in what 946 01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:15.000 sucks is there's matches that should be special and are great that fans end up 947 01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:17.559 presenting because they just see too much of it. You know, the novelty 948 01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:21.719 is gone, and that's not fair for you know, Kevin Owens and Sammy's 949 01:05:21.719 --> 01:05:24.920 Aim, you know, wrestled each other. However, many weeks in a 950 01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:28.199 row it felt like it's like this is a great feud in NXT, and 951 01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:30.679 it can be still a great feud, but there's still little variety because Vince 952 01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:34.000 Lean's on the same guys. That it takes something that should be special and 953 01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:38.239 makes it causitive to be less special in the eyes of the fans, which 954 01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:40.960 just isn't fair or productive to anybody. Yeah, I get that. Like 955 01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:43.000 when I was a kid, like I mean raw, it was like an 956 01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:45.760 hour or Superstars or whatever. But like if Brett Hart was wrestling on TV, 957 01:05:46.239 --> 01:05:48.800 it was like a big deal. Yes, feeling. Wrestle on pay 958 01:05:48.800 --> 01:05:51.480 per views, you get interviews from Brett Hart, but like Brett Hart's gonna 959 01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:55.400 have a match this week against Rad Ratford. They're like, oh, I 960 01:05:55.440 --> 01:05:58.519 am tune in Bretts on this week. Yep. So it's going to be 961 01:05:58.599 --> 01:06:01.280 like you only see Rome Range once a month restle on TV like rollan or 962 01:06:01.559 --> 01:06:04.480 or less. But also you've got that three hours to fill. I don't 963 01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:10.480 know, So I don't know the solutions. I know it's a predicament, 964 01:06:11.239 --> 01:06:14.719 you know, well, yeah, but I mean if into the genius, 965 01:06:14.719 --> 01:06:15.719 he should be able to get more than you know, eight guys over at 966 01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:19.760 a time, and get sixteen guys over, so you can rotate who's made 967 01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:24.519 of venting and filling those twenty minute matches. Yeah, And the argument will 968 01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:29.280 be like, well, it's episodic storytelling. We can't just give up this 969 01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:34.920 story and throw paul A Cruz Versutibreeze out there. You know, yeah, 970 01:06:35.239 --> 01:06:41.159 why not? I don't know, maybe conditioned the audience that everybody's importantly you 971 01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:45.320 know then, like you know, I mean the UFC, for instance, 972 01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:50.320 I'm a big MMA fan, right, I watch anything any combat sport of 973 01:06:50.320 --> 01:06:54.840 any sort if it's on I'm watching it. If it's on at noon from 974 01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:57.840 a different cunt time zone, I'm watching them on my phone. I watch 975 01:06:57.880 --> 01:07:01.840 it all because I just enjoy watch. But like two guys you never heard 976 01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:06.159 of might have the best fight of the night. You know, it happens 977 01:07:06.199 --> 01:07:09.599 all the time. And then they're like, Dan, you see that guy 978 01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:12.519 in that fight and they made their name, you know, so why not 979 01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:15.440 throw some of those guys on it all and just see what happens? How 980 01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:19.079 many people have just that You didn't know how many people have you seen them 981 01:07:19.079 --> 01:07:23.199 for the first time? And by the end of the match, you're like, 982 01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:26.239 oh my god, that guy's awesome. You know, yeah, first 983 01:07:26.239 --> 01:07:29.079 time raymiss Cerial, it's like coasts walked into the area. Everybody's probably like, 984 01:07:29.079 --> 01:07:31.159 who are those guys? And then twenty minutes later, oh my god, 985 01:07:31.239 --> 01:07:35.480 raymisterio is coolest thing I've ever seen? Yes, exactly, why not? 986 01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:39.400 And it does seem like, you know, a RICOCHETV show up and 987 01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:43.679 dazzle people. And then six weeks later fans have kind of figured out this 988 01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:47.000 guy is just going to be at this level and that journey isn't there where 989 01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:51.480 the wins and losses on TV lead that wrestler somewhere until Vince de sides, 990 01:07:51.519 --> 01:07:56.400 and sometimes he does, but sometimes he doesn't, and the viewers thus are 991 01:07:56.480 --> 01:07:59.840 less engaged in watching a match on TV unless it's part of one of the 992 01:08:00.199 --> 01:08:02.880 three or four storylines that Vince is invested in at that moment. Yeah, 993 01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:06.440 exactly. I mean there is a lot of problems, man, and I 994 01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:10.920 don't know the solution to them. But the cool thing is they ain't my 995 01:08:11.079 --> 01:08:15.519 problems anymore. No, they're not. Give yourself a reason to look forward 996 01:08:15.559 --> 01:08:19.039 to going to the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy Subscription 997 01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:25.279 details at PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. It's twelve pages every week, 998 01:08:25.319 --> 01:08:29.000 packed with my TV reports, along with exclusive features such as my cover 999 01:08:29.079 --> 01:08:31.680 story on the top story of the week, our pay per view roundtable reviews 1000 01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:36.079 from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, 1001 01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:41.960 Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and Zach Haydorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the 1002 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:46.119 latest news, and more. PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take 1003 01:08:46.119 --> 01:08:50.840 a break from screen time and settle in every week with a megadosa wrestling news 1004 01:08:50.840 --> 01:08:56.600 and analysis with a pro Wrestling Torch newsletter paper copy edition in the year twenty 1005 01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:00.760 twenty two. You can get a full year of home delivery for just ninety 1006 01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:04.800 nine dollars, or try us for an eight week trial subscription pw torch dot 1007 01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:15.560 com slash paper copy. I want to see about Roman Range and the polarizing 1008 01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:17.720 reaction, as WWE would would say, you know, categorize it and frame 1009 01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:23.119 it as how much did that affect you guys like that, there's how the 1010 01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:26.319 crowd supposed to respond, and then in a lot of cities, especially pay 1011 01:09:26.319 --> 01:09:29.880 per view and TV cities, it would be a different response than than they 1012 01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:31.960 than they were going for. It followed John Cena. They made a lot 1013 01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:38.159 of money with him. Was that a scene as a problem that was where 1014 01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:41.640 a solution was being sought out or was it just it is what it is 1015 01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:46.319 and we're going to keep pushing forward. I think they definitely probably hoped that 1016 01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:50.039 that would stop, But you knew it was going to happen from because as 1017 01:09:50.039 --> 01:09:55.319 soon as everybody realized when did the shield, everybody loved him. Yeah, 1018 01:09:55.760 --> 01:10:00.319 yeah, it was the hottest thing. I please booked like a mo through 1019 01:10:00.680 --> 01:10:02.880 and they lost him, you know, But as soon as everybody realized, 1020 01:10:03.199 --> 01:10:05.920 oh, he's getting like the tap on this show. But like he again, 1021 01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:10.079 you know, he was always the guy, you know. But as 1022 01:10:10.119 --> 01:10:15.880 soon as people realize that, then they all decided beforehand while it's gonna turned 1023 01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:18.319 on kind of thing because they don't like that for whatever reason. Like, 1024 01:10:19.720 --> 01:10:26.079 but seeing their create I think seen it did at first, and then Roman 1025 01:10:26.199 --> 01:10:29.199 walked into it. You know, they were like, oh, it's the 1026 01:10:29.239 --> 01:10:30.560 scene a thing. Yes, I guess, I mean, I don't know, 1027 01:10:30.880 --> 01:10:34.079 you know, did it seem like it was something that could be fans 1028 01:10:34.079 --> 01:10:41.640 could be steered in a different way if Roman was presented in a different way. 1029 01:10:41.600 --> 01:10:44.319 Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean this times they suffer 1030 01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:45.720 and stuck attash, you know what I mean. I remember that day. 1031 01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:48.840 Do you think he wanted to say that? No, he he went in 1032 01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:50.760 there and was like what and he came out and he was like, he 1033 01:10:50.800 --> 01:10:54.319 wants me to say stuffer and suck atesh. And I remember kind of laughing 1034 01:10:54.399 --> 01:10:59.079 like two's you can't say that. He's like he wants me to say it. 1035 01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:02.960 He's like, what is there a cool way to say it? I 1036 01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:04.800 was like, what if you look at the camera and say like, well 1037 01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:09.760 that wasn't easy to say or something. I don't know. That's one example. 1038 01:11:09.880 --> 01:11:14.119 I mean, his personality is so great. He's just such a great 1039 01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:16.840 dude. Like everybody loves him. He's the most lovable guy in the world. 1040 01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:20.720 He's like he's the guy everybody gravitates to in the locker room, you 1041 01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:26.800 know, just because he's a he's a natural just charisma and stuff. But 1042 01:11:26.840 --> 01:11:31.560 they don't let him just be himself. They try to like make him and 1043 01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:39.479 he tried he before. I mean when in the initial years ago, you 1044 01:11:39.479 --> 01:11:42.800 know, he was trying to be what they wanted him to be or whatever, 1045 01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:45.640 you know. But like he's also they're like, dude, you're the 1046 01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:49.439 guy, you know, and they're giving him the spot. You know, 1047 01:11:49.479 --> 01:11:54.720 He's not going to reject everything, you know what I mean, He's gonna 1048 01:11:54.720 --> 01:11:57.319 try his best, you know, and he always has, you know, 1049 01:11:57.880 --> 01:12:01.840 and it's never a cool thing. Is Like, I'm really glad that he 1050 01:12:02.079 --> 01:12:06.199 was like legion our best friends because like we ride in the car, like 1051 01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:11.479 even when we were in like competition so to speak, I never had because 1052 01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:15.960 I love him so much that I couldn't like resent him or anything. Like 1053 01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:18.239 if he was a guy that I wasn't friends with that I hated. Yeah, 1054 01:12:18.359 --> 01:12:21.520 I'd probably resent the hell out of him, you know, because there 1055 01:12:21.560 --> 01:12:27.680 are many times where I felt like I had a stronger connection with the audience 1056 01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:30.000 than him, but it didn't matter, you know, right, but like 1057 01:12:30.279 --> 01:12:34.720 he was my best friend, so like it's not like it would have never 1058 01:12:34.720 --> 01:12:40.159 come between us. You know. Did you ever have ideas for Roman that 1059 01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:43.479 were like, oh, if we could just get this to events, get 1060 01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:46.319 through to events on this, whether you're working with Roman or when it was 1061 01:12:46.399 --> 01:12:49.760 Roman is doing singles work, We're like, this would this would change things. 1062 01:12:49.760 --> 01:12:54.079 This would take the guy backstage that everybody loves and gravitates to, and 1063 01:12:54.119 --> 01:12:57.439 it would translate to TV if they would if because he talked about that. 1064 01:12:57.520 --> 01:13:00.720 I don't know if he saw it, but the there was a documentary WrestleMania 1065 01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:02.800 season on his comeback chronicles and he said, you know, Vince, this 1066 01:13:02.840 --> 01:13:06.119 is Roman talking. Vince and I came up with this Roman Reigns character and 1067 01:13:06.159 --> 01:13:10.880 we've been kind of, you know, following that script for a while and 1068 01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:14.199 that lane. But now with this real life situation and people looking at me 1069 01:13:14.239 --> 01:13:17.720 differently, I want to present more Joe and and it felt optimistic like, 1070 01:13:17.760 --> 01:13:20.399 hey, he's gonna go somewhere else. But if you're watching TV now, 1071 01:13:20.399 --> 01:13:24.000 it's it's the same. It's the same as it was a year ago. 1072 01:13:24.520 --> 01:13:27.359 Yeah. Yeah, I had to ask him, you know, yeah, 1073 01:13:27.439 --> 01:13:30.680 I guess. I mean, with your creative thoughts on yourself and the system, 1074 01:13:30.199 --> 01:13:33.199 did you did you did you ever see what you thought might be a 1075 01:13:33.199 --> 01:13:36.640 solution to get in the fans to see the real Joe that you also ran 1076 01:13:36.680 --> 01:13:40.840 into brick walls on Well. I mean many times when we'd be riding in 1077 01:13:40.840 --> 01:13:43.560 the car or whatever, and I'd just be like, that's and he would 1078 01:13:43.560 --> 01:13:46.359 like, cut promo in the car and I'm like, that's awesome. Yeah, 1079 01:13:46.520 --> 01:13:50.239 that's what we say tomorrow, Like it's not you know what I mean, 1080 01:13:50.359 --> 01:13:54.159 or you like and then and then and he's like going, and I'm 1081 01:13:54.159 --> 01:13:57.800 like, that was awesome. Man, you got to say that tomorrow and 1082 01:13:57.880 --> 01:14:00.760 he maybe you get to maybe they say no, you guys say this, 1083 01:14:00.239 --> 01:14:04.399 Yeah, but if the same problem, it's the same thing for everyone, 1084 01:14:04.640 --> 01:14:10.199 you know. Yeah, again, not my problems anymore. You talked about 1085 01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:14.680 the ni Jack's situation. Well, fastward to that. I'm here and I'm 1086 01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:17.640 curious if you had an idea there was an endgame for that if where where 1087 01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:25.159 that was headed and if that got derailed because of the press release and uh, 1088 01:14:25.319 --> 01:14:28.399 we're getting out that you weren't renewing, and that kind of triggered them 1089 01:14:28.399 --> 01:14:30.840 to change what they were going to do with that because the crowd response would 1090 01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:34.279 be different knowing since they would know that you were leaving. Yeah, I 1091 01:14:34.279 --> 01:14:39.000 mean, I guess that's why they can it all. Yeah. I mean 1092 01:14:39.119 --> 01:14:44.600 I don't know all the plans or he told me kind of, but I 1093 01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:47.680 wasn't really paying attention, you know, because I was like just my mind 1094 01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:51.600 was going in a million different directions. But uh, and then it got 1095 01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:55.840 canned like really quickly. But I had like I was, I was ready 1096 01:14:55.880 --> 01:14:58.159 to do it. I was. I was like okay, yeah, because 1097 01:14:58.199 --> 01:15:00.800 I had people that you know, I'm closed to, uh, you know, 1098 01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:05.520 were like just do whatever they ask. Don't do anything to breach your 1099 01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:09.279 contracts. You know. I had some people tell me like, now they're 1100 01:15:09.279 --> 01:15:11.920 going to push you to breach your contract, yeah, so that they can 1101 01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:14.800 tie you up. You got to just get to the finish line. So 1102 01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:16.640 I was ready to do whatever. I don't know how we're supposed to do 1103 01:15:16.680 --> 01:15:23.119 this, like me cutting promos about like punching women in the face when like 1104 01:15:23.239 --> 01:15:26.560 my feminist herod wife is on commentary. I didn't know how we were gonna 1105 01:15:26.560 --> 01:15:30.479 do with that. Yeah, I mean, but I had some ideas, 1106 01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:31.600 you know what I mean. I was working out the house and mess the 1107 01:15:31.600 --> 01:15:34.439 mead. I was going like, okay, and nothing else. At least, 1108 01:15:34.439 --> 01:15:36.600 I'm not really gonna have to take a lot of bumps. There's gonna 1109 01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:40.279 be like a stick pash. I'm like, this would be an easy few 1110 01:15:40.319 --> 01:15:43.319 months, no bumps, All right, let's do it. That might have 1111 01:15:43.359 --> 01:15:44.920 been eat. I would have been a hell of a lot easier in my 1112 01:15:44.920 --> 01:15:47.439 body than throwing through tables and stuff every night like I ended up doing. 1113 01:15:48.079 --> 01:15:54.600 Can you figure out why once thing else you were leaving that it became like 1114 01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:59.119 the Dean Ambrose going away to her and you were celebrated and the shield was 1115 01:15:59.159 --> 01:16:01.479 celebrated and all the pain at the end wasn't very good for the final shield 1116 01:16:01.479 --> 01:16:03.960 apparance. That was funny, funny for me, not for you. But 1117 01:16:05.359 --> 01:16:10.239 what we do you understand what their mentality was in the way that they framed 1118 01:16:10.239 --> 01:16:12.920 you. Did they just feel like we need to babyface the situation? So 1119 01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:15.680 fans don't resent us because we're already going to be embarrassed in as choosing to 1120 01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:18.560 leave even though we want him, So we have to make it seem like 1121 01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:23.119 we're on great terms. I mean, that's the best I can come up 1122 01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:30.199 with as a rationale. I yes, partly, I never asked. Yeah. 1123 01:16:31.079 --> 01:16:34.039 I think probably a lot of it too, is like they're realizing that 1124 01:16:35.399 --> 01:16:40.640 and they're just guessing here. So maybe they're realizing, like the shield was 1125 01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:43.880 gone. Now now we're not just losing him, now we're losing the whole 1126 01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:46.600 act because you can't do it with only two of us. So like, 1127 01:16:47.359 --> 01:16:51.359 maybe they were just trying to milk every last sent out of I mean, 1128 01:16:51.359 --> 01:16:54.760 they are at least a freaking T shirt on, like my last night. 1129 01:16:54.920 --> 01:16:58.199 Yeah, you know that, maybe they were just trying to milk every last 1130 01:16:58.239 --> 01:17:00.479 scent out of that, you know. I guess maybe I don't know, 1131 01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:06.079 but it was it was it got like awkward because they kept having me to 1132 01:17:06.079 --> 01:17:11.279 come out and say go buy the crowds, so like, yes, totally, 1133 01:17:12.039 --> 01:17:14.840 and I'm like, and I didn't want to sing. I didn't. 1134 01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:17.359 I didn't the whole time. Until I talked to Jericho, I hadn't said 1135 01:17:17.399 --> 01:17:20.239 a word to anybody about anything, because I didn't want people to know what 1136 01:17:20.319 --> 01:17:24.039 I was doing. I didn't want people to know if I was retiring, 1137 01:17:24.920 --> 01:17:27.800 or if I was going somewhere else or I was coming. I wanted people 1138 01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:30.520 to think I was probably just going to come back to Dovvie. So maybe 1139 01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:32.680 even more shocked when I showed up someplaceself. I think probably on some level 1140 01:17:32.680 --> 01:17:38.279 a lot of people probably didn't really believe it until they saw people thought it 1141 01:17:38.279 --> 01:17:41.800 wasn't work because they treated you so well. Yeah, I was hoping that, 1142 01:17:41.920 --> 01:17:44.920 like the video I released, because it was so well done, I 1143 01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:46.600 was hoping that people were going to think they'ble to be produced it and I 1144 01:17:46.680 --> 01:17:49.720 was just going to come back as like a different character. Yep. So 1145 01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:54.840 I was hoping for like the most shocked value when I showed up someplace else. 1146 01:17:55.760 --> 01:17:57.680 So, like, I didn't really know what to say these crowds. 1147 01:17:57.680 --> 01:18:00.680 I ended up just kind of just saying, you know, yeah, hey 1148 01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:03.439 man, thanks, we love you guys, you know, because I didn't 1149 01:18:03.439 --> 01:18:06.760 really want to say like goodbye. I think maybe they're trying to like figure 1150 01:18:06.800 --> 01:18:12.640 it out maybe two like you see what I want to say, But I 1151 01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:15.000 never said anything. I just said like, hey, thanks for coming out, 1152 01:18:15.039 --> 01:18:18.199 you know, but uh, like I remember the night after me. 1153 01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:21.039 I thought I was supposed to be done in a and then I find out 1154 01:18:21.079 --> 01:18:26.039 note where keeping on the road, So I said, so then they kill 1155 01:18:26.119 --> 01:18:29.520 me off again, which ended up not being the there's like the third time 1156 01:18:29.560 --> 01:18:32.359 they killed me off ended up not even being the final time, but uh 1157 01:18:33.920 --> 01:18:36.560 they did. Do you think of body lastly? Now? So I'm like 1158 01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:40.399 getting dressed and then they're like, hey, we don't should go out dark, 1159 01:18:40.399 --> 01:18:42.199 and I'm like, what do it? They're like, do say good 1160 01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:45.479 bye the crowd? I'm like what. But I'm like, I guess because 1161 01:18:45.479 --> 01:18:48.840 it's like Barclays and like WrestleMania weekend or whatever. They just want to end 1162 01:18:48.840 --> 01:18:50.800 the night on a good note. I guess. I don't know whatever. 1163 01:18:50.840 --> 01:18:55.399 So I'm like okay, and I walk up to Gorilla and Michaelade was like, 1164 01:18:55.800 --> 01:18:58.760 just go out there, say goodbye, and I remember thinking in my 1165 01:18:58.800 --> 01:19:01.399 head, I'm like, I'm not saying goodbye to them, I'm thinking about 1166 01:19:01.399 --> 01:19:06.800 to you. Yeah. Really good point is the night after the media crowd 1167 01:19:06.840 --> 01:19:10.199 half this cross probably going to be a double or nothing. There's not more. 1168 01:19:11.079 --> 01:19:12.880 I'm like, I'll see you in a few weeks, you know. 1169 01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:15.119 So I just was like, hey, that's funny, thanks for coming out, 1170 01:19:15.159 --> 01:19:17.680 you know what I mean. But after a while I got like awkward, 1171 01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:20.039 like that last weekend at the end of the night and I'm like on 1172 01:19:20.119 --> 01:19:24.000 the mic every night and they're like, you know, please don't go whatever. 1173 01:19:24.119 --> 01:19:29.039 I'm like, but I remember staying enrollment like we're in it such hang 1174 01:19:29.119 --> 01:19:31.000 in the micro I was like, I put my head on. I was 1175 01:19:31.000 --> 01:19:34.399 like, this is getting awkward now, dude. Like we're just saying goodbye 1176 01:19:34.479 --> 01:19:42.560 to like every town. At some point it's like goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 1177 01:19:43.119 --> 01:19:47.399 It's like, okay, goodbye. Go Like I'm the lingering lingering for 1178 01:19:47.439 --> 01:19:49.680 a long time, like did you just get out of here already? I 1179 01:19:49.720 --> 01:19:51.319 was like, people are gonna turn on me, They're gonna be like, 1180 01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:56.319 get out of here. And then finally that's hilarious. I know it did 1181 01:19:56.359 --> 01:19:58.520 start to feel that way. The guy who says goodbye at the party and 1182 01:19:58.560 --> 01:20:00.119 then five minutes later he's still there. Then he says goodbye again. Yeah, 1183 01:20:00.239 --> 01:20:11.960 just kept kept going out here, get out of here? Are you 1184 01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:15.880 a fan of aw looking to sit back, relax and listen to some like 1185 01:20:15.920 --> 01:20:18.680 minded podcasters who share your passion. Do you want to be topped off the 1186 01:20:18.760 --> 01:20:23.000 ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the heck are they thinking? 1187 01:20:23.640 --> 01:20:27.520 Do you want to join a discussion on what AW is doing right and what 1188 01:20:27.560 --> 01:20:30.359 they could do to improve? Then join me Joel and me Greg for the 1189 01:20:30.399 --> 01:20:34.640 All of the Conversation Club every Friday on the PW Torch Live Cast. Fee 1190 01:20:35.239 --> 01:20:41.000 search pw torch in your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch Daily Cast or 1191 01:20:41.039 --> 01:20:45.119 stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find full details on the 1192 01:20:45.119 --> 01:21:00.479 pw Torchdailycast lineup at pw torchdailycast dot com. How I know? How you 1193 01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:03.920 know? You've talked about the emotions you felt, but articularly like when you 1194 01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:08.600 walked out of the building knowing it was the last time that you were Dean 1195 01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:12.119 Ambrose, you know, like leaving that character behind, as mixed feelings as 1196 01:21:12.159 --> 01:21:14.920 you had about it because of what scripted it was and all that you were 1197 01:21:15.039 --> 01:21:16.159 kind of I mean, I assuming you walked out the door there was sort 1198 01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:20.079 of a wow, and there were good feelings. Obviously you've spoken to them, 1199 01:21:20.439 --> 01:21:28.039 but any like melancholy or nostalgia or sense of finality to that just raw 1200 01:21:28.119 --> 01:21:30.640 that they asked that special and made sure that they didn't want me to come 1201 01:21:30.640 --> 01:21:34.119 out and say goodbye to des moin make sure like, yeah, okay, 1202 01:21:34.159 --> 01:21:38.239 you absolutely don't need me double check. And I just kind of like say 1203 01:21:38.279 --> 01:21:41.920 goodbye to a few people and just kind of slipped out quietly okay, and 1204 01:21:42.399 --> 01:21:45.520 waited for my wife to get done and then flew home. But I still 1205 01:21:45.520 --> 01:21:48.239 didn't believe it. Yeah, because there was one like that was a twenty 1206 01:21:48.239 --> 01:21:53.239 third by contract and on the thirtieth there was one more raw on April twenty 1207 01:21:53.359 --> 01:21:56.359 ninth, they would have been full within the rights to asked me to come 1208 01:21:56.399 --> 01:21:59.199 to and I was like, I don't I don't believe it. I feel 1209 01:21:59.199 --> 01:22:00.479 like they're gonna call it every you're gonna call me and told me to fly 1210 01:22:00.560 --> 01:22:04.439 to a fly to whatever it was and do one last role, you know. 1211 01:22:04.640 --> 01:22:09.840 So it wasn't until that rale was over. It wasn't until like I 1212 01:22:09.920 --> 01:22:14.000 dropped the video and and I was like, oh my God, like I 1213 01:22:14.079 --> 01:22:15.960 made it, because you know, I didn't see that whole week from when 1214 01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:20.399 I went home until the next week until it until it passed, I was 1215 01:22:20.439 --> 01:22:24.560 just like sitting staring at the phone and hoping they don't call me, you 1216 01:22:24.560 --> 01:22:28.359 know, and then it like felt real afterwards, you know. But I 1217 01:22:28.399 --> 01:22:31.000 mean I'm taking it. I mean, you know, I'm not keep that 1218 01:22:31.079 --> 01:22:33.720 DDT. But I mean everything else, I'm just throwing in the garbage, 1219 01:22:33.720 --> 01:22:38.680 you know what I mean. And that's that's you know, two between you 1220 01:22:38.720 --> 01:22:41.720 know, me and the Shield and you know the Ambrose alone. That's like 1221 01:22:41.760 --> 01:22:45.359 two characters that drew a ship ton of money for that company. I'm throwing 1222 01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:50.600 them both from the garbage and start scratch. So like that's you know through 1223 01:22:50.640 --> 01:22:54.359 it, you know, yeah, you know, you don't even get one 1224 01:22:54.399 --> 01:22:59.319 life. You know, I'm not gonna be like you know, former to 1225 01:22:59.439 --> 01:23:01.399 movie supers our d name bro, Like I totally could. I don't have 1226 01:23:01.439 --> 01:23:03.840 to do anything I don't want to do. I can sit on my couch. 1227 01:23:03.840 --> 01:23:09.720 There's a lot of dudes who like in my position that like aren't looking 1228 01:23:09.800 --> 01:23:13.159 to get off the couch. They're not like looking to leave their house unless 1229 01:23:13.159 --> 01:23:15.960 you make it worth a while. And as they do, you know, 1230 01:23:15.079 --> 01:23:19.039 like I can totally just every weekend go to some indie show, get a 1231 01:23:19.119 --> 01:23:24.880 nice payday, sign some autographs, and get up and give somebody DDP at 1232 01:23:24.880 --> 01:23:28.039 the end of the night and be you know what I mean, I could 1233 01:23:28.039 --> 01:23:30.119 do that. I'm doing the opposite of that. That's not me at all. 1234 01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:34.359 You know, I'm not relying on this. I'll go to eat stuff 1235 01:23:34.359 --> 01:23:40.479 at all. You know. Sidebar comment here speaking of just sitting around on 1236 01:23:40.479 --> 01:23:46.479 the couch. Do Netflix sponge anything I have before? I don't. Man, 1237 01:23:46.600 --> 01:23:48.920 it's hard for me to get into the show, like I gotta I 1238 01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:53.079 gotta get hooked, you know, like like everybody's get all these Game of 1239 01:23:53.159 --> 01:23:56.359 Thrones and like I've tried it. Yeah, like romans. Try to get 1240 01:23:56.359 --> 01:23:59.800 be into that so hard, you know, Like we watched a couple I 1241 01:23:59.800 --> 01:24:01.760 was just like, I don't know why. I just can't tak get into 1242 01:24:01.760 --> 01:24:04.760 it. I don't know why. You know, we're just watching this one 1243 01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:10.720 called you on Netflix. We just watched that's pretty good. We watched this 1244 01:24:10.800 --> 01:24:15.159 at us. You know what else we watch. We'll watch some stuff, 1245 01:24:15.159 --> 01:24:16.159 you know, I like, you know, we like some trash TV. 1246 01:24:16.279 --> 01:24:19.600 You know, we watch a Bachelor. You know, I like to watch 1247 01:24:19.640 --> 01:24:24.319 like we like to watch trash TV and like talk because like most the first 1248 01:24:24.359 --> 01:24:26.479 time I love to hang out with the most of the wife. So we 1249 01:24:26.600 --> 01:24:30.119 like to just like sit and talk and watch stuff. You know. Yeah, 1250 01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:33.720 cool coil. Okay, So that's the first half of this interview. 1251 01:24:33.760 --> 01:24:40.600 Part two drops for VIP members later on Saturday, and it drops for everybody 1252 01:24:40.600 --> 01:24:45.560 on the Weight Color Progressing Podcast feed Sunday late afternoon early evening, just depending 1253 01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:48.640 on the schedule of my producer getting that posted to the free feed. So 1254 01:24:48.680 --> 01:24:50.560 again, if you want to hear it right now, don't wait, go 1255 01:24:50.680 --> 01:24:55.680 VIP. There's so many outcome benefits to being a VIP member. Once again, 1256 01:24:55.760 --> 01:25:00.640 that's at the Wade Keller and at pw ts on Twitter, Instagram, 1257 01:25:00.640 --> 01:25:03.880 and Facebook. Thanks again everybody, and we'll talk to you next time. 1258 01:25:23.760 --> 01:25:27.279 Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or comments. That email 1259 01:25:27.279 --> 01:25:32.479 address is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW 1260 01:25:32.520 --> 01:25:36.520 torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter even follow us on Twitter 1261 01:25:36.560 --> 01:25:42.520 at PW Torch and follow me at The Wade Keller. That's at PW Torch 1262 01:25:42.880 --> 01:25:47.920 and at the Wade Keller. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then 1263 01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:53.199 join me. Jason Powell host them the three weekly pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 1264 01:25:53.439 --> 01:25:56.399 Each week, you'll hear the latest news and analysis from me and my team 1265 01:25:56.399 --> 01:26:00.239 at pro wrestling dot net, along with other pro wrestling media members us. 1266 01:26:00.279 --> 01:26:03.439 The Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in the pro 1267 01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:09.520 wrestling industry. Subscribe and Itunestitcher, downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps, 1268 01:26:09.920 --> 01:26:13.800 or visit us directly at PW boom dot com. Once again, that's 1269 01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:18.119 PW boom dot com. Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know 1270 01:26:18.159 --> 01:26:23.800 we also have a website, pwtorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials, 1271 01:26:24.159 --> 01:26:28.399 and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown and my live 1272 01:26:28.520 --> 01:26:31.920 pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW. Create a tab or bookmark make 1273 01:26:31.960 --> 01:26:35.079 it a daily stop. Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up 1274 01:26:35.079 --> 01:26:41.800 on breaking news and more. That's pw torch dot com. Meet an extra 1275 01:26:41.840 --> 01:26:45.800 dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts. Will come join me Alan fourrel Over 1276 01:26:45.840 --> 01:26:50.960 in the Progress Paradise at pterewtorch VIP as we mask on the bright side of 1277 01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:56.319 wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows from around the world. 1278 01:26:56.640 --> 01:27:00.439 Be it us Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for 1279 01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:04.720 restings past in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such as 1280 01:27:04.760 --> 01:27:11.479 the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderlighter and Our Eye 1281 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:15.119 Was There When shows where our guests will join me to talk about a classic 1282 01:27:15.199 --> 01:27:18.439 bout that they were in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect 1283 01:27:18.479 --> 01:27:25.239 lots of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed pw Torch VIP subscription information and 1284 01:27:25.319 --> 01:27:30.359 a list of all the VIP benefits is available at pterwrew torch vip info dot 1285 01:27:30.399 --> 01:27:34.600 com. And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on 1286 01:27:34.720 --> 01:27:40.239 iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our ad free 1287 01:27:40.520 --> 01:27:45.199 VIP mobile site. See you in the Paradise. One way that you can 1288 01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:48.199 help us sustain our schedule of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving 1289 01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:51.960 us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go to Apple Podcasts and 1290 01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:56.800 look for our Weightkeller Pressing Podcast and Weight Keller Processing Post show and give us 1291 01:27:56.840 --> 01:28:00.319 a five star rating. We hope you think we've earned that score with our 1292 01:28:00.359 --> 01:28:04.159 fast turnaround times and our quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. 1293 01:28:04.319 --> 01:28:08.640 So take a moment out for us and do us favor and give us a 1294 01:28:08.680 --> 01:28:12.680 five star rating and Apple Podcasts that helps us on search returns and helps us 1295 01:28:12.760 --> 01:28:15.319 grow. And if you want, you can add a few comments about what 1296 01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:17.239 you like about the programs in the comments section. Thank you so much. 1297 01:28:20.760 --> 01:28:27.279 In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you 1298 01:28:27.319 --> 01:28:31.760 see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be 1299 01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:38.039 taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells 1300 01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:42.760 and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years 1301 01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:45.720 back to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't 1302 01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:51.800 work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members. 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