We're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Drushinsky,
culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show
at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on exit fdr LST.
Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course to the
premium version of our website as well. So excited to be joined once again
today by Brad Wilcox, who is out with a new book on February thirteenth
called Get Married, Why Americans Must defy the elites, forge strong families,
and save civilization. Brad, thank you so much for coming back on the
show and congratulations on the book. So good to be with you again Emily
today. Bret, I don't know if I've ever asked you this question,
but it occurs to me. I'm curious how your career ended up going in
the direction of family studies, of studying marriage so closely to the point where
now you've devoted an entire books length to this topic, and the trends in
not just the last you know, a couple of years, but you know
much longer time period than that. How did your career end up in going
in this direction, Brad, Yeah, it's a good question. So I
was raised by a single mom in the seventies and eighties. I talked about
that kind of in the book you Know about kind of most of my friends
growing up were from divorced homes, either their parents got divorced before we met
or after we met. Although my actually my dad died when I was three,
so my kind of route to single parent was a bit different. And
then in college, the you Reachie Virginia, I was here as an undergraduate
as well, kind of had the sense that, as it's kind of trying
to make sense of, you know, growing up without a dad, that
the marriage is and institution that connected men on average, you know, to
their kids. And I had some professors who were kind of unusual and challenging
and they helped me kind of, you know, reach that conclusion as well.
So and then that led me to kind of study family and religion and
culture at Princeton and sociology and then right since then on sort of the nexus
between family, culture, religion, and the welfare of kids and adults.
But I shall also say too that when I kind of first got into this
business, Emily of kind of researching families. I was most concerned about the
way in which are the ways in which strong marriages, stable families are good
for children. And we have obviously a great book out for mosse Kearny on
the two parent privilege, just out a few months ago that kind of goes
into some detail on this theme, and I address it to in my new
book. But beyond that, I've been talking to a lot of UVA students,
especially younger women, and they're concerned about their prospects, you know,
for dating, for finding guys who are commitment interested, commitment worthy, and
even more so who are marriageable. And I've just been kind of getting this
sense that young adults today are going to face a lot of challenges finding a
spouse and getting married. In fact, in the book, I asked me
that about one in three young adults today in their twenties will never marry.
You could have never been at this place, Emily, where so many people
in America, so many adults are not going to be, you know,
walking down the aisle to put a ring on it. So this book is
really directed more towards the sort of adults and marriage discussion and less on the
kids and marriage discussion as a consequence of sort of this newer reality we're seeing
with the young adults today. And you know, it sounds so obvious to
a lot of people, especially people who are from stable communities that have high
marriage rates load divorce rates. But what you do in this book, and
you know, again you've been doing this for years, which you mentioned.
You're the head of the National Marriage Project at UVA at University of Virginia,
You're a fellow at the Institute for Family Studies at the American Enterprise Institute.
So you've been looking at this data for a long time. In the book,
you really put it on one place. And again, it sounds so
obvious to many people, but it's a real uphill battle that you fight every
day when you're looking at how media covers marriage. What is the different brand
between how especially elite media covers marriage, looks at marriage, maybe even in
Hollywood depictions, in the reality the sort of cold hard facts as you've compiled
them in this book. Yeah, so I think it's striking you. When
I first kind of put out the idea that I was doing this book on
Twitter about six months ago, there were a lot of elite journalists who were
saying, basically, look, our American elites are doing just fine at marriage.
Why are you saying defy the elites. The elites are the ones who
are succeeding at marriage. And of course my point is not that we should
be defying the elites to practice, but defying kind of the elite cultural commentary
around marriage. And so when I was finishing up this book, for instance,
I ran across an article and just trending on Twitter in Bloomberg it's that
when stay single and don't have kids are getting richer. It also kind of
depicted a lot of single and childist someone who were just basically living their best
life. Kind of gave people the impression that steering clear of family life was
good financially and emotionally. Footman. There was an article, you know,
written in The Atlantic, the Case against Marriage. There have been numerous pieces
in the New York Times and other than just kind of talking about divorce,
particularly since COVID had There was an article friends in New York Times it's a
divorce can be an act of radical self love. So kind of getting this
message. It's profoundly you know, often anti nuptial, anti marriage, and
anti natal as well, kind of anti kids that's been sort of seen more
and more in the elite media, and I just wanted to kind of basically
remind people on this book and part that when you look at kind of average
Americans Emily, there's just no question that married men and married women are much
more likely to be happy with the last are about twice is likely to be
very pathed with their lives, for instance. And when it comes to women,
there's no group of women in America today who are happier than married moms.
So for all of the challenges and difficulties of being a parent and you
know, crying babies, trunk lent teens, you know, trips to the
er, you know, not being able to always do what you want to
do, there's just no question that I think for many of us, the
opportunities to care for someone else, to have someone care for us, to
you know, be trusted guides to our children, to watch them on the
playing field at the you know, the concert if you're religious, to go
to church with them, these things into being so important, meaningful and joyful.
And so that's I think in part why we actually see is that you
know, in ordinary America, married moms and married dads are the happiest.
So basically, don't read what you believe from journalists, often writers writing from
Brooklyn or something. I don't know what's thebout with the Brooklyn sort of what
I wonder because so many pieces coming out of Brooklyn. I mean it's just
crazy, like literally, I mean there's just dozens of pieces that are,
you know, basically attacking marriage, tacking motherhood and I don't know what's wrong
in Brooklyn. But without failure, you scrolled to the byline and it says
X as a writer basically in Brooklyn. It's just like, oh my god,
what's in the water there? You know, we're there in Brooklyn.
I don't know. It's just it's crazy. That's funny. So you just
touched on one of the things you touched on in the book, and it
was one of my big curiosities going into this too, is we're looking at
the data and qualitative and quantitative on why this is beneficial. A lot of
people talk about this in the context of women for men. What are the
differences between why marriage is good for men and women? And is it as
important for both sexes as it is for the other. Yeah, great question.
And I think one of the big surprises in terms of getting this whole
book project together was that I found that there's a newer message now. So
I think everyone kind of everyone knows that there are plenty of progressives who have
got a pretty negative take on marriage in motherhood from kind of a woman's perspective,
Right, that's kind of I'm not saying anything really new on that score.
I'm just sort of saying it's it's wrong. But what I think new
is when I begin the book actually be talking about Andrew Tait, obviously the
more right leaning online you know, Manisphere guy who's got a huge following.
And I was even in Utah, actually Emily, talking to a bunch of
young adults and primarily Mormon, and I mentioned Andrew Tate, and I could
see the teenage boy's eyes were kind of wide, they were widening, and
they were nodding, and they've heard the critique. You know that he's offering
and that basically there's no return on investment, you know, from them,
when it comes to marriage, you're just going to be divorced, taken to
the cleaners. She's just kind of trying to take you for your money.
And so Tate's solution is get strong, you know, workout the dominant,
the assertive, make a ton of money and use, but don't invest in
a woman. And so obviously his lifestyle I think corresponds to that as well.
But of course what he's missing is that for the average guy in America,
the best route to prosperity is getting staying married, and for the average
guy in America, the best route to happiness is to become married and a
father. So there's no group of men who are happier in America than married
dads ages eighteen fifty five, and so that's I think what's lost is this
kind of recognition that for the average guy in America today, marriage and fatherhood
are a great deal, both in terms of the financial kind of dimension and
then also the emotional side and just having more people life now it's important.
The divorce, you know, challenge, which is I think a legitimate issue
to raise, is that we're no longer at sort of the one in two
marriages ending in divorce pattern in the seventies and eight divorces come down since then,
and we would estimate that the folks are getting married today have about a
forty percent risk of divorce. So it's not nothing, but it's not one
and two. Most marriages go the distance, and my book gives both women
and men ideas about how they can strengthen their marriage and avoid ending up in
divorce court. A lot of conservatives have been talking about no fault divorce and
the sort of policy approach to divorce state level, federal level in recent years
as the culture War sort of moved back into the forefront or not I shouldn't
say back, but has moved to the forefront of some basic policy debates.
And you know, I've heard different things from people on the right itself.
You know, I've heard people really frustrated that some people on the right talk
about no fault divorce with a total lack of sensitivity and kind of understanding of
where these laws came from. And on the other end, a lot of
people who have looked at legitimate data and say that no fault divorce was the
wrong way to go. Brett, how did that? Because again you go
back, you're actually right in the wake of the family revolution that began in
the late nineteen sixties and took off in the nineteen seventies, this is right
at the beginning of the book, marriage no longer seemed a safe harbor for
American men, women, and children. And someone on the left would say,
because it wasn't safe for a lot of women, because you know,
for a lot of women, they were trapped. Yeah, I think there's
obviously truth to that, And there was a lot of you know, chicanery
that was happening with divorce back in the fifties and sixties and before then.
Because you can only get a divorce in very unlimited situations, someone had to
take kind of the fall for the divorce. So I think what I would
sort of say is that kind of going forward, we have to acknowledge that
divorce laws are part and parcel of why people are less invested in marriage today
than they were fifty years ago or sixty years ago. And we also actually
have new evidence from Pennsylvania that indicates that divorce, the no fault divorce,
you know rise in the seventies that swept across most states then helps to explain
this marriage vibe that we're now you know, and what I mean by that
is basically, educated and affluent Americans are more likely to get married stay married,
and working class in poor Americans are much less likely to get married in
the first place and then stay married in a place. And what this new
research from ten indicates is that for more educated and affluent Americans, they've got
a large shared asset, oftentimes a house that helps to bind them together.
But sort of the protection of the law, which really kind of was there
until the seventies, was more helpful for working class in for Americans and kind
of reinforced marriage and working class in poor communities. Once that protection kind of
lifts with no fault divorce, their kind of confidence and their ability to rely
upon marriage is kind of a stable institution is just much weaker. And so
that's just we have to kind of figure out some new way going forward to
strengthen and stabilize marriage, in part by reforming divorce laws. And we've got
three lawyers that are looking right now at ideas at these certain family studies that
we're going to be hopefully rolling out with them the next year or so that
would help us to think about, you know, some creative ideas to make
it harder to get divorced a little bit for folks are made with children.
And you know, one of your friends and we're thinking about is you know,
some divorce education, you know, that might slow down some people or
make them rethink their decision. Obviously waiting period were in some states, but
kind of thinking about posting as more of a universal normal across the US.
But I've got a couple of ideas we're trying to kind of think about that
would be not making some of the mistakes that were made I think in the
older model, but not kind of just allowing a very kind of expressive approach
to divorce where it's just kind of like, I don't believe, you know,
we've drifted apart. You know, my life is depressed. You know,
I want a new you know, a new option, whatever it might
be. And they're obviously serious cases where divorce is warranted, but we have
seen since the seventies too many of these more expressive divorces where people are breaking
up their marriages for reasons that I would argue are not good for particularly their
children, and they might want to rethink that and have the law kind of
stand more on the side of keeping the marriage together. This might sound like
a weird question, but I wonder also, Brad, how, in your
opinion, the divorce rate, which you note has actually declined, But how
has that affected the never married demographic or you know, on the policy culture
being downstream of policy question, you know, how has the American kind of
approached a divorce from your perspective, changed people's decision whether or not to ever
even get married in the first place. And can you tell us a little
bit about the never married demographic as it's emerging, especially among young people.
Yeah, so, I mean, certainly part of the story about divorce.
The fact that divorce is down is because it's you know, marriage is more
selective. So we're seeing today in the book talks about four groups of people
who are more likely to get married in America today, and I call them
kind of the masters of marriage. And those four groups are Americans who are
an Asian American, or religious Americans, or college educated Americans or conservative Americans.
And so for a variety of reasons related to I would say cash and
culture, those four groups are more likely to put a ring on it today.
And also they're just less susceptible to divorce. So again, one reason
that we're seeing less divorce is that the people are getting married are either more
affluent, or more religious, or more marriage minded. In an important way
now. That means that never married folks are more working class than poor,
and I think that's an old story. Most people who kind of track this
issue understand that. What people don't realize, though, is that there's a
cultural story you're playing out for the never married, and that is the Americans
who are more secular and more progressive are also less likely to be married,
less likely to have kids as well. And it looks like from my manage
point, kind of the gap, the cultural gap when it comes to marriage
for religious and secular Americans and for conservative and progressive Americans is growing when it
comes to marriage and family formation. So that just means because we kind of
go down the pike here, we're going to see many more kindless Americans in
poor, working class secular and progressive community sort of broadly understood, and obviously
there's going to be some places where there's an overlap and some not. But
that's I think, you know what we're going to see happening in this country
in the next you know, decade or two. Yeah, as you're looking
ahead, and again you work with students, so I'm curious from that vantage
point too, there's such a mismatch now of college graduation rates. And also
you'll know this better than I do, but what women say they want in
a partner seems to also be really mismatched with the population, earning, potential,
education level and all of that. What kind of keeps you up at
night thinking about where these trends could go with not just sort of younger millennials,
but gen Z and then maybe even down the road. But I would
think, especially gen Z, this is a pretty problematic trend right now.
So I mean, I think the challenge is facing us when it comes to
marriage. You know, moving forward are number one, there's a growing ideological
divide, as you know, there's a growing educational divide, which you just
touched on. So women are better educated than men among adults, women are
more liberal than among an adults. And then on top of all that,
we're seeing more secularization right now, and we are also seeing I think a
lot of men are floundering when it comes to kind of having that sense of
clear direction both in school and in their professional lives that would make them attractive
as marriageable men. So all these things are kind of combining, and so
I would certainly have a pretty negative prediction for sort of at least the short
and median term future for marriage in terms of the numbers. And then if
you kind of just add on to that the impact of smartphones and now of
AI and virtual reality classes and goggles, which tend to I think reduce in
first and socializing and dating, the picture is pretty blak. So all that
stuff keeps me up at night. And I think, you know, I
really look at my book as an opportunit comunity to kind of get people who
are paying attention to realize that you kind of got to reach higher ground family
wise, relationship wise. If you can't, and then you won't be able
to. But there's a demographic tsunami coming and it's going to leave a lot
of young adults today without a spouse and without children as they move into midlife
in later life. And we talked about them as bare branches in the book,
using a term from China, people who don't me kin. So just
kindlessness is heading to our shores. It's come across the Pacific, where it's
pretty common in East Asia, it's coming to America. And if you want
to reach higher ground, if you want to have your own family, don't
listen to your parents and professors who tell you to wait until you're twenty nine
to look around and find a spouse. I'm not saying you have to get
married at twenty two or twenty four like I did. I'm just saying,
like, if you're in college and you meet someone who's like wonderful and you
know, fun to be with and a great friend, and forbid, don't
wait until you're twenty eight and that person may have gone somewhere else, you
know, to pull the trigger, you know, get more serious with them
and think about marriage. Or you know, if you're working in DC and
you're in your early twenties, you know, and you find someone who's a
great friend and a great prospect, don't wait, you know, year pon
year, pon year, kind of you know, pull the trigger and ask
them to marry you. It would be kind of you know, part part
of my thinking about, you know, helping people understand there's a new challenge
day, and that is that a lot of American young adults will never put
a ring on it, will never have children, and so they have to
be a lot more intentional about avoiding that that demographic and cultural trend that's sort
of enveloping America today and how did it change from boomers to exers, to
millennials and then to zoomers, Because I know part of this has been some
of the predictions with millennials, for example, And I say, because I'm
a millennial, is they ended up just getting married later at a similar rook
But it's just a similar right, right, It's still a step down.
Right. There are plenty of you know, academics and journalists and other you
know, people who think about these issues and right about that who would be
very kind of skeptical of the claims that I'm making to you right now,
Emily. They would sort of say, you know, people are just getting
married later. You know, just relax, Brad, this is not a
big deal. But I'm just saying that there are a number of different scholars
who are kind of all pointing to the sort of trajectory here, and they're
kind of telling us that, yes, from the boomers who kind of often
married in the early twenties, to the exers who married oftentimes in their mid
to late twenties, to millennials who are marrying around thirty, we're not kind
of just seeing delay in marriage, but we're also seeing people foregoing marriage either
voluntarily or involuntarily. And there's just kind of a way in which the more
you postpone marriage, the more difficult, you know, you make your prospects
of ultimately finding someone. And then now we're living in a culture or where
it's just harder to even you know, meet people and date even when it
comes to you know, cohabiting relationships, not to mention, you know,
marriage as well. So I just think it's it's incumbent upon younger adults in
their twenties and people who are single in their thirties just to realize that they
need to be both themselves more intentional about finding people who might be worthy updating.
I mean also asking their trusted friends and family members to kind of play
the matchmaker role of you know, a bygone era or a different culture,
you know, and realize that you know, you might want to kind of
let your friends you know, you're looking to marry and do they have prospects
in mind and have them be more aggressive on your behalf as well. And
how does I know again this and I think you've studied, how do civic
organizations and the kind of bowling alone alienated America trends that you know Putnam and
Cary describe when it comes to empty churches, empty bowling leagues, that has
to really be affecting people's abilities just to couple off, especially when you add
in app culture swiping. You know, people get what's called option paralysis just
on Netflix because there's so many choices, let alone in a city of you
know, a million people or a suburb of millions of people as well.
Yeah, no, I think that's that's the challenge, is that, you
know, we do know that in general, churches are good places to meet
people. My colleague, doctor Wendy Wing at these More Family Studies, has
found that people who meet, you know, through some kind of religious community
report the highest quality marriages. And by contrast, folks are meeting online and
folks are meeting in bars in person report the lowest quality marriages. But kind
of generally speaking, meeting in persons better and meeting in a religious community is
is you know, kind of gets tough ranks. But there are a few
young adults who are you know, finding their way to to religious communities.
That's a big challenge. And then I think, yeah, the the whole
kind of dating culture online is often not conducive to marriage because it tends to
reward like the most appealing, if you will, kind of candidates for dating,
at least judging on some you know looks or you know, status criteria,
and so a lot of people kind of are left out of that and
are you know, alienated from or kept away from, you know, good
dating opportunities. And then the folks who are kind of flourishing on the dating
apps often I think, don't feel like the need to be more intentional about
finding someone to marry, which isn't great either. So yeah, there's just
kind of a perfect storm that's sort of unfolded here. And so I think
people who want to flourish when it comes to marriage or family who are kind
of your age roughly speaking, just need to be more countercultural and more engaged
in their communities. Then they might otherwise be interesting. And one thing that's
true of your work in general and definitely this book is you do a very
good job of putting class in the spotlight, and that's where it really needs
to be, especially as you're describing you know, trends like how it's a
path to upward mobility marriagures a path to upward mobility, but also as it's
something that is practiced by people who are already upwardly mobile. And you talked
about this a little bit earlier, Abrad but a there's a divide between what's
being practiced and preached by elites, but also that marriage is the best route
to sort of get from point A to point B. At the same time,
can you break down the class element a little bit more? Yeah,
So, what we see in both my book and other other books like Melissa
Kearny's new book, is that working class and poor Americans are much more likely
to have difficulty getting married in the first place today being married in the second
place. When it comes just to kind of who's married, we see that
a majority of college educated Americans I call them strivers in my book, are
married eighteen fifty five. By contrast, only a minority of Americans with less
education and then eighteen fifty five demographic are married. And then when it comes
to divorce, we see is that Americans who don't have a college degree are
about sixty percent more likely to get divorced compared to their peers who do have
a college degree. So there's just a big gap in terms of both entering
marriage and staying married that is associated with the class divine. I think there's
a lot happening with that. But I think two things worth quickly touching on.
One is that having a large shared asset is a stabilizing forced married couples
and so more educated, afluent Americans are more like could have a home fawn
together, And that in some in some ways, just you know is a
you know, is a force for you know, making people work through you
know, the usual challenges and difficulties in any marriage. But the second thing
that I think is also kind of playing out here when it comes to this
class divide is that we're seeing that working class and poor couples are market of
guys who are not employed full time, and male full time employment are you
know, is just a huge predictor both of getting married in the first place
and staying married in the second place. There was a Harvard study that found
that when mary couple had the wife loser job, no impact on a risk
of divorce none. When the husband lost his job, their risk of divorce
surged by about thirty three percent. So that's an example of I think the
way in which I mean twenty twenty four is obviously different than nineteen fifty four.
And I'm not saying we should go back nineteen fifties, but I think
it's just important to recognize realize that even today, women, even women on
the on the left, are looking for guys who have a set of you
know, of rates, character endowments that kind of correspond to being more responsible,
more protective, more likely to be flourishing in the labor force. And
there's an unfortunately as a class divide that's kind of playing out there now that
is making the case that a lot of guys work less of our communities are
not as marriageable on things like full time employment. And the other question I
have is on race in particular, race, class and public policy, the
black marriage rate in particular. A lot of people make the argument that when
you started to see break down the black family, you started to have public
policy disincentivizing family formation. Great society is often targeted that in particular, what
is the what is the data show run? So I think it is the
case that one reason that there is a racial divide in American life today when
it comes to marriage and family, that that is is pretty marked. Whereas
you were kind of noting the majority of like Asian Americans, our greer majority
are married, and the slite majority of whites are in the con demographic and
focusing on only minority of African Americans are is that. You know, in
the sixties and seventies, a lot of our means tested programs, a lot
of our welfare programs effectively penalized marriage. You know, it's just kind of
a better financial deal not to get married in the first place, and just
to live together. And we still see this dynamic playing out now with more
working class couples. That's a complicated it. It was the poor in the
sixties, it was now, it's more working class. Just the way in
which you know, benefits are allocated. And because African Americans were or likely
to be lower income in the sixties, and I think they were more affected
by this great society dynamic than were whites, for instance, although it hastened
to add to I think there was a lot happening the culture in the sixties
and seventies too. The sexual Revolution, you know, for instance, would
be one example. The rise in individualism, civil rights, you know,
all these things were kind of also I think re calibrating the kind of the
character and context of white and black family lives in ways that ended up having
a disparate impact on black marriage and black families. And then economically too,
we know that working class Americans have been hit harder by the economic changes of
the last you know, fifty years give or take. In that economic story
affected black couples and black men in particularly important ways. One final piece on
this is that a lot of Americans do not really eyes that from about eighteen
seventy to around nineteen forty, depending upon you know which trends you're looking at,
and focusing on black men and black women, in that kind of period
after the Civil War up to about the nineteen fifties, black Americans emily were
more likely to marry than white Americans. And if you were to kind of
go down any street here in Charlottesville right now, you know, situated residential
street, you would find the vast majority of black and white kids, you
know, living in you know, married homes. So there's just something about
the sixties and seventies, i'd say, in terms of public policy, cultural
shifts, and economic changes that kind of led to a situation where African Americans
were less likely to marry in the first place, and then more likely to
get divorced in the second place, And Brad, I could do this all
day, but one area that might be a good spot. So wind down
is just that if we were to hold all things constant in the culture and
create the best American economy of the last one hundred years, go back to
the post war economy something like that. What we're starting to see trends of
among gen z some crazy polling on gen Z men and women pulling apart from
each other ideologically. We have gen Z men, at least in the last
couple of years, seeming to embrace some conservative ideas in ways nobody really expected
in a worldview, in ways people really didn't anticipate, at least to the
degree that it seems to have happened, and how quickly it seems to have
happened, and young women getting more and more liberal. So if we were
to hold everything constant in the culture, what would happen? And what do
you think is going to happen with that crazy mismatch? Yeah, I mean,
I think we're looking at deeper ideological polarization. We're going to see you
know, less marriage less child bearing. I mean, it's already happening obviously
in South Korea in a very extreme way. So in South Korea, the
twenty somethings are pretty polarized between the sexes, where young men are going right
and when they're going left, having a lot of difficulty dating, meeting,
marrying, having children as a consequence in part, and the right leaning twenty
something guys helped just elect a conservative president in South Korea, and it was
somewhat of a surprise to some Korean observers. So that's sort of one scenario.
And I think for a long time, a lot of progressives assume that
kind of the rising character of unmarried America, the fact that there are more
and more folks who are not married, would lead in extably to a kind
of democratic demographic dominance, like they sort of thought about kind of trends and
immigration and whatnot. But what I think they and frankly me did not anticipate
is that it looks like a lot of single men, younger single men today
are you know, moving right and in a way some ways that are good,
in some ways that are not great. You know. I think Inentertate's
obviously a great example of how this can play out in negative ways. And
so for young men who kind of feel like rejected either romantically or who feel
like they don't have a shot at realizing the American dream in terms of their
you know, education, work opportunities, or abilities. I think that kind
of can lead to a to a dark place and to a dark politics.
So I would anticipate that kind of young women who are more progressive is going
to kind of push the Democratic Party in a more radically progressive direction. In
young men who are conservative may be disappointed with their prospects, you know,
both job wise and family wise, or roman romance wise, could also be
obviously pushing the Republican Party into a dark place as well, more reactionary angry
politics. So anyways, yeah, right now, I think the trajectory is
not good, and the challenge is how do we kind of bridge this to
bi between the sexis among our adults, and if we can kind of make
progress in doing that miraculously, our future as a country, as a civilization
is going to be much brighter. If we can't, I would I would
project more of the same. What an exciting and optimistic place to end,
Yeah right, yeah, yeah, I cannot recommend those book and off it's
fantastic it's called once Again Get Married, and Brady timed it for basically a
Valentine's Day release. It's out of February thirteenth. Was that intentional Harper wanted
to do that? Yeah, they aim for this Valentine's daytiming. Yep.
It's perfect, absolutely perfect, and especially when people are surrounded by so many
wonderful stories of successful marriages. So Again Get Married by bradwell Cox. Brad,
thank you so much for joining the show, and it's a pleasure to
be with you as as always. You've been listening to another edition of The
Federalist or a radio hour. I'm Emily Dashinski, culture editor here at The
Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, be lovers of
freedom and anxious for the Fray. You got me right, well, you