WEBVTT

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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis Shure host. We

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have a great one for you this
evening. Greg Bishop is going to be

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on and I just started listening to
his podcast recently and it's great. We'll

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talk a little bit about that and
a lot more. Alejandro Rojas is coming

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up with the UFO updates, and
just a second here, I want to

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thank everyone that supports the show.
For only two dollars or more a month,

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you can help us out. And
I just have to say real quickly,

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it's not affecting anyone at all,
but we did get hacked and I've

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had I've had to like redo all
types of security services and things and clean

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the site. But someone in China
was getting new subscribers PayPal money and you

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know, and it was quite a
bit all at once. So but that's

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taken care of. We're all set. Just another monthly expense. So if

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anyone can help us out, we
would really appreciate it. That information is

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all on podcast ufo dot com and
if you can help us out, you

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still want to listen to the whole
show always on Wednesday evenings. That may

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change to Monday eventually, but right
now it's on Wednesdays at eight to ten

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pm Eastern Standard time. You can
also listen on the Dark Matter Digital Network

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a lot of people do, and
that's on Thursdays from ten to midnight.

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And that's it for me. Alejandro, how are you good? To have

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you back? I am good.
How are you doing? Grate? Was

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I here last week? No,
you haven't been on for a long long

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real long, Holy moley, long
time. I don't know exactly. Well,

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I'm back, baby, Yeah,
you're back, and you've got a

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great shirt. Anyone watching YouTube?
What is that? Oh, isn't that

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cute? It's a little Lego guys. So this is when I volunteered my

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girlfriend's daughter, Rihanna, who's one
of my good buddies. She's awesome,

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but she is in her first year
in college. But in high school she

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was part of the robotics club and
one of the robotics leagues is the Lego

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League. It's the elementary league,
and so we volunteered to help those guys

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out a couple of times. And
so this is our volunteer T shirt for

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the Robotics Lego League. Pretty cool? Yeah, I like it? Yeah,

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I love it. Yeah. Yeah, So how's everything going. Have

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you had some R and rings,
did some traveling? Well, I did

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some traveling, not a whole lot
of R and R. I hope to

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get to some more. But it's
been busy, so of course there's so

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much going on right now. I'm
still playing some catchup. In fact,

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right now i'm writing my story about
the third Department of Defense video that was

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released, which I'm sure we can
talk about. And even though that happened,

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you know what, a week or
two ago, two weeks ago maybe

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now, but about a week week
and a half actually it was March ninth.

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But so I'm still killing I'm playing
catch up. I had some other

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stories to post, and one of
those, sent to us from Linda Zimmerman

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that I posted on Friday was a
great one about UFO sightings during Saint Patrick's

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Day in particular. Of course,
she's focused on the Hudson Valley, New

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York area, so she wrote about
that, but really cool stories there.

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So yeah, I've been busy with
that. I've also got a their new

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venture I'm doing just so you know, and I can plug this modern American

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dot news. So I've got a
lot of blogs, you know, I

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used to contribute with a Huffington Post. I'm not doing it anymore, but

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I've still got all of these great
interviews with some scientists and with um in

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one case, a former senator and
or foreigner congressman about space and other things.

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So I've got a new site,
Modern American dot News, and I

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get stories sometimes from people who ask
if this story will fit, you know,

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on Open Minds, and if it's
not UFOs, I don't post it.

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So I've got some of those and
I'm gonna let those people know that

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I can post it at this new
website that I'm putting together, and I'm

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going to talk to some of my
other media buddies because often, you know,

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when when people write, they're stuck
on a particular genre that they're they're

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tasked to write about for whatever outlet
they write for. So this gives people

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the opportunity to write about other genres
that they may be interested in. So

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I'm excited about that. I hope
this does well, and can you tell

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it kind another outlet for writing an
idea of what type of topics we may

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be able to find on that,
Like right now, you'll see a lot

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of my kind of science and entertainment
stuff. So my interviews with scientists regarding

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some fascinating topics, like, you
know, robotics. One of the interviews

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I did was you know whether or
not we'll have an AI robot anytime soon,

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kind of like in the movie Chappie. And this guy is an ASU,

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a researcher who is working on robotics
for NASA, and he's working on

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building robots that can think for themselves, because let's say you send a robot

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or like the rovers on Mars,
takes a long time to communicate with them.

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If they could actually figure out and
determine some tasks they could do on

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their own, then we don't have
to wait for the course, you know,

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the signals to go back and forth. So that's what he's working on,

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and surprisingly he says, yes,
that it won't be too long before

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we could do some sort of AI
system that could become self aware, which

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is kind of strange. I mean, that's that's really odd. Some of

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the experiments some of these robotics guys
do too. It's like this one guy

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has these little robots he makes and
he uses the brains of Mars of Oh,

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I think I saw something on the
control selling little wires into the Yeah,

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so some cool stuff like that,
some kind of just kind of science

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and space stuff out there. Uh. Mike Massey Mino is a astronaut.

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You see him more and more on
television. He's this New Yorker guy.

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I think it's from the Bronx and
he's just a really cool guy. But

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I also posted an interview I have
of him up there, and that's really

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amazing. Kids. We're talking about
spacewalks and you really get the sense of

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kind of the the aw that they
encounter when they're doing these spacewalks. So

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yeah, so I lucky have the
opportunity to interview more astronauts and things like

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that, and uh so that's what
you'll see up there, is more of

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the kind of conventional stuff. I'll
put the bigger UFO stories up there occasionally,

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but for the most part, you
know, it's um, yeah,

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kind of mainstream news sort of things
there. Well, um talking about AI,

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it took a little a little step
back with that right by you in

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Tempe. That accident recently is too
bad of self driving cars. I really

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think is going to be the future. You know. Whatever happened, I

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hope they can figure it out.
And iron it out so something like that

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won't happen. Well, actually they're
they're kind of stating that something like this

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can happen and will happen again.
But it wasn't the car's fault. So

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it's almost actually turning into a good
story for these cars because they at least

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the police officer they kind of walked
it back in it. It's been kind

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of this pr issue, but they
said that from looking at the cameras on

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the vehicle, no one could have
avoided hitting that person because unfortunately that person

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walked out onto the street with their
car in front. Some day. Yeah,

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the bicycle. So there's this area
where it's this is weird and it's

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kind of the city of Tempe's fault. They have this area where there's this

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walkway and it looks like it's a
pedestrian or biking lane and it's not.

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There's even a sign that says this
is just for for looks essentially, and

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which is kind of silly because why
do you have a walkway there. So

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that's where this person was, was
on this walkway and they, I guess

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assumed they could cross the street because
just down the street near the university,

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any crosswalks. You know, you
have to stop before for pedestrians going through

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the crosswalk, but this is not
a crosswalk that she went through. So

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it's looking like it wasn't the car's
fault. And they're saying that, you

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know, the the vehicle or the
car could not have avoided the So it's

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just like the same thing as if
a driver couldn't avoid it, the vehicle

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couldn't avoid it, right either.
Yeah, and I yeah, for the

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most part, I think self driving
cars are going to be much much safer

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than yeah, um, you know, just it can react instant. I

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mean, we can react fairly quickly, but they can react much quicker than

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the human brain. Ye, the
way they're doing so many cars have this

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integrated uh, these integrated systems where
they'll stop if you miss something, they'll

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stop for you. Um. I
have it on my Toyota. Toyota is

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only seventeen and it has it has
an alarm if someone stops up in front

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of you, and then if you
don't hit the brakes, that'll hit them

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for you, which is pretty nice. Wow. Yeah, it's cool.

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I love this stuff. Well,
that's great. I wish you good luck

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on that. I think we should
probably talk about UFO news though, right,

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Is there anything at some point?
Yeah? So what's going on?

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Yeah? So I don't know.
Have you talked about the third video much

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to cover that? No, I
talked about it. So on March ninth

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a Washington Post story came out while
I was in the Caribbean, so I

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was not able to read it and
the big news that it had created when

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it happened. So I had to
cover that when I when I got back,

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because I ignored everything when I was
attempting to chill out. It was

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just it was adventurous. We went
to lots of violence, so I didn't

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get it relaxed, but I got
to see some really cool stuff. But

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anyway, on March ninth, a
kind of an opinion piece came out on

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the Washington Post in their outlook section
called Perspective, and it was written by

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Christopher Mellon, who you're familiar with. He was a Deputy Assistant Secretary of

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the Fence for Intelligence during the Clinton
and Bush administrations. He also has been

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a consultant for Congress on intelligence.
He's worked in CIA, He's worked at

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very high level intelligence positions throughout his
career. Now he's retired from that and

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he's really into UFOs. Leslie Kane
wrote a story on him a couple of

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years ago that kind of outed him
on this, and now he's part of

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this to the Stars organization along with
Louise Elisondo. He wrote an article which

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was titled the military keeps encountering UFOs? Why doesn't the Pentagon care? And

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along with this article, To the
Stars released the third video that they had

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in their stash of an alleged UFO. So these are videos that from what

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we are told, that this organization
a tip the advanced aerospace or aerial or

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aviation. There's arguments over what the
second word is threat identification program that Louise

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Alzando used to run. They have
allegedly looked at these videos and determined them

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to be unidentified. They can't figure
out what they are, and they all

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feel that these what was observed,
these craft that were observed demonstrated technology more

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advanced than what we could create here
or that any other nation has. What

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Melan is arguing is that maybe these
videos are showing objects that are Russian or

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Chinese, we don't know, but
that the Department of Defense should be interested,

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they should want to figure out what
these unknown objects are, but they

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don't seem to care or at least
be spending the time and effort to investigate

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these, which is exactly what Alisando
says. He worked for that department.

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He says, we found these unknowns
that you know, the pilots and figure

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out what they are. We've had
some pilots, you know, speak on

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the news on on one of the
other videos saying we think that this thing's

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et even and Alasander just feels like
Defense department didn't taken enough notice. So

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that's what Melon was arguing, and
so in this article he u they released

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the this new video, which is
probably the most impressive of all of them.

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It's really cool. It comes from
a F eighteen hornet, just like

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the others from the Navy and the
You could see that they're videotaping the or

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they've got their flare, their infrared
with registers heat pointed towards the ocean,

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and you see this object kind of
zip in go across the screen and then

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the camera tries to track the object
and eventually it does a lock on and

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it follows this object, which appears
to be moving very quickly. The objects

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below the aircraft. The aircraft is
moving at three hundred about three hundred miles

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per hour, and we know this
from the telemetry on the screen. But

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yeah, the objects moving pretty quickly. With the I R which gathers heat,

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you can tell that the object appears
to be round. Now that's the

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heat signature of it. But on
the TTSA website they do demonstrate that even

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from the heat signature, you can
still make out, you know, the

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site, the shape of an object
that they show a jet, and you

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can see it's a jet because you
can see the wings and you can also

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see the exhaust which is about as
large as the plane itself. So this

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object does not have exhaust, doesn't
appear to have wings, so they don't

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know what the heck. It is
a couple of things to note. First

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of all, where does it come
from? The title In to the Star's

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website, they say no other information
as to where this object was videotaped or

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when has been released, but the
title of the video they've named the twenty

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fifteen Go Fast Footage. And in
Chris Mellon's article, he said that this

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occurred off the east coast in twenty
fifteen, so that's all we know about

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it currently as to where it comes
from. So that's the new video.

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It's a very impressive video. But
the question is, you know they say

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on the TTSA website that even though
they were the first to receive this video,

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that they were released by the Department
of Defense. Alessandra said that in

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our International UFO Congress video as well
in our interview with him, and that

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so you can foya these videos to
get copies of them, but nobody's really

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had any success Foyang doing foyas on
anything regarding this department. Yet the New

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York Times verified that the a tip
department you know, that investigated this UFOs

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did exist. But that's the only
thing officially that's coming from the Department of

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Offense. Everything else we know,
we know through to the Stars or through

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Elesando, and so researchers are working
to verify that information. There's been some

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confusion in this release. So for
instance, CNN did a piece, a

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couple of pieces on this video,
and one of those pieces was the video

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where they're giving you information. But
as far as anybody else getting any copies

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of these videos, and as Alesando
states, the videos, there are only

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a few seconds each because they're only
showing you parts that they can show that

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aren't classified. If that object,
you know, shows other aircraft, or

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it shows anything that could indicate,
you know, anything going on with what

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they're maneuvers that are classified, then
it can't be shown. So that's why

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we only have these small clips of
these videos. But so there are still

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a ton of questions. I'm going
to be able to talk to Alisando again

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sometimes soon and hopefully get a follow
up interview. But not only do we

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need answers from him, which will
we'll get, I think we also need

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some of these foys to result in
some documentation and or t T's essay needs

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to release any documentation they have,
because we don't have any real documentation backing

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up any of this yet. Well, you know, I think I told

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you when we talked the other day
that I've been communicating with a pilot that

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says he's seen this. So I
asked him the question after you and I

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finished, how long ago did you
see those see that video? In particular,

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because he saw he said he saw
this exact video and a briefing.

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He's a military pilot, and he
said that was about he's about four years

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ago, so that's it's probably he's
probably telling the truth, you know,

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I don't. I don't know.
Um, it'll be interesting. He said

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that it was the particular reason of
this video being in the briefing that he

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was in was to show the something
like the slide and catch of the raytheon

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camera. Um, it was it
was an excellent job how they actually were

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able to catch the object. So
it'll be interesting the more I find out

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about what he knows about it.
But it maybe, Yeah, you may

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want to ask Alesando when you talk
to him, Um, did pilots,

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the average pilot get to see this? M Yeah, from what I believe,

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that's true that some people have seen
it, but or at least seeing

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some of these. But these videos
were allegedly declassified. They went through a

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declassifying process, so hopefully we'll see
those documents. Regarding that. Leslie Kane

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said she's seen those documents, so
we know that they have them, that

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TTSA people have them, so hopefully
they'll release those at some point. But

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the only problem with that, of
course, twenty fifteen was only a little

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more than two years ago, so
it might not be in this video.

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He saw maybe one of the others. But right, yeah, or yeah,

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so it's it. Yeah, yeah, he could. So I'm excited

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to hear more. But I don't
think and this is kind of the issue

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and what's happening. I think there's
there's many disconnects going on with people.

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Researchers are trying to verify some of
this information, and the media isn't necessarily

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they're taking Alesando's word for it because
to the media, he is an authority.

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He's been vetted, he worked for
the Department of Defense, He's the

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authority. If he says they investigated
it, that's good enough for them,

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and unless someone of authority was to
come out and say he's lying. But

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you know, he's got the backing
of like Harry Reid, who people have

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interviewed, So that's substantial there for
the verification. For UFO researchers, we're

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probably not going to get it.
We're just not privy to the information we

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want or need to be able to
verify some of this. For instance,

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you know, debunkers have gone and
looked at it and given some things like

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ideas like their balloons or their drones
or something like this, but you know,

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we haven't seen the entire investigation what
led them to believe that these are

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unknown objects? And the fact is, and some people have gotten kind of

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frustrated with his answer, but it's
the truth. We probably we might not

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be able to see that that information
could be classified. So all we know

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is that, you know, people
at the Department of Defense and in the

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military examine this, they couldn't figure
out what it was, and that's all

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we're going to be given. Luckily, we do have some witnesses. For

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instance, when it comes to mimits, you know, there is of course

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the pilot who's been out there to
verify, Yes, we saw this,

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and I think that it is something
extraterrestrial, and and that's where some I

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think gains can be made from what
I understand with researchers. There are people

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possibly speaking with witnesses. Got to
verify these witnesses. So we may have

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some more witnesses come forward and that
would be great, But as far as

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expecting to see documentation, hopefully TTSA
will share some, but it's not looking

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very positive that the Department of Defense
is going to let anything out anytime soon

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unless we get some sort of insider
help on that. So well, okay,

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alle hundred. Well we've kept Greg
and the wings long enough. Yeah,

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I know, so I apologize for
that. One last point I would

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make is that the good thing,
though, is that the media has been

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treating this very well. I mean, I think culturally it's been very important,

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because culturally it's almost like people have
accepted that the UFOs are real phenomena.

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I mean, it feels like that
change has been made. The media

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no longer talks as skeptical about it. When they refer to it, they're

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referring to the Department of Defense that
they have found this to be a real

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phenomena, and that's really important,
I think. But I don't want to

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keep you from Greg anymore because Greg
is one of my favorite thinkers and interviews

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in this arena. So I know
this is going to be a great show.

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All Right, Allure, thanks so
much, and I'll be talking to

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you next Thank you next week.
All right, all right, you later.

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So our guest Greg is coming right
up. He has a podcast we're

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gonna be talking about. He's been
at this a long time, Great Books

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Project Beta. Recently, when we
were talking when I was out in Phoenix,

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he gave me a defies language it's
a lot of essays of things that

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he's written on different blogs, mostly
God, something in the middle. I'm

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gonna have to ask him. He's
gonna laugh, Greg, welcome to the

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show. Hey, nice to be
here. Can you hear me? Okay,

285
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yeah, I can hear you.
I don't know, okay, good.

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Yeah, no, I'm just making
sure because we're checking Mike's at the

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beginning here, and I turned my
regular mic back on and as long as

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you hear me, that's great.
Yeah. It was called um now,

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I can't remember the name, but
excluded in the middle, well, excluded

290
00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.759
middle was the name of the magazine. Yeah. Yeah. The website,

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the blog that I did along with
Nick Redford was called you Mystic I did

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not Yeah, yeah. So most
of the stuff in that book is essays

293
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from there, and then I wrote
three new ones and I included I don't

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know, four or five old ones
that had never been seen before, and

295
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a few other things that I'd written
that I had never seen the light of

296
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day. So it's it's it's a
hodgepodge. It's just stuff I've been thinking

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00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:29.839
over the last what ten fifteen years
something like that. And the other thing

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is, like I would have an
idea and somebody say, hey, Loo,

299
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this great idea. I just came
up with it. I'd be like,

300
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I wrote about that ten years ago, so I put dates on everything.

301
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.160
Yeah, so I could I could
remember what i'd written it, because

302
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.119
it's like I think I wrote about
that like in two thousand and six.

303
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:47.720
Oh yeah, there it is.
You know. One of the things I

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00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.880
totally agree with you on after listening
to your podcast, which is great,

305
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.720
by the way, radio Mysterio.
So is that how you say? Is

306
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:59.559
that the proper way to pronounce it? Yeah, I mean I'd pronounce it

307
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:03.880
like Spa because I grew up in
southern California. Every everybody around here practically,

308
00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:06.319
I mean, you know, Spanish
if he lives here. So it's

309
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:11.000
more like radio sidioso. But radio
masterios is fine too. Yeah. Yeah.

310
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.200
So one of the things you've I've
heard you say, and I've said

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00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:19.920
it a number of times. Sometimes
the weirder stranger things are, the more

312
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:26.119
believable they are. I totally,
I totally understand you know where you're coming

313
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from when you said that, because
I agree. You know, the really

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00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.799
oddball ones, how how could they
make up or why would they make it

315
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:36.839
up? You know that, Yeah, the stuff that doesn't fit. Yeah.

316
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:38.920
And the thing is that people try
and force things into a narrative and

317
00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.960
it's like, oh, well that's
not a gray so or you know,

318
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:48.559
why did that person start having Poultergeist
actor activity in their house before or after

319
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:51.759
a sighting? Stuff like that,
stuff that doesn't fit, I think is

320
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a real good clue as to what
might be going on. Carlin Turner said

321
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:56.519
this a long time ago when an
interviewed her. She said, I think

322
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the anomalous stuff is where the gold. She said, So you shouldn't You

323
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:06.279
shouldn't push away things just because they
sound weird or the narrative doesn't sound like

324
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:08.960
the standard one or whatever. You
know, if somebody I've referred to this

325
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:12.599
case, but if somebody sees a
giant, a four foot tall rabbit with

326
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:18.480
plaid first sitting in their plaid colored
first sitting in their driveway after have a

327
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:26.200
UFO encounter, that's really important.
I get it. It's it's crazy,

328
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it's insane, but it is intimately
connected to the experience. And if we

329
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:36.200
can find out why or why such
an absurd thing might happen, what other

330
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.559
absurd things happen? We can maybe
we can start to figure out things.

331
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Besides where do they come from and
all this, I don't think that's an

332
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:47.839
important question anymore. The important question
is what causes UFO reports. Yeah,

333
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:51.160
that's true. Hey, Greg,
I just wanted to let you know I

334
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:53.720
did have some questions come in.
I'm going to be given those two later.

335
00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:59.599
Also, we may take we may
get some, we may take some

336
00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:03.279
up her phone calls later, if
you're right with that and about a half,

337
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:07.039
Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.
So you know, one of the

338
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.160
things that I was thinking about,
you know, we're talking earlier, ale

339
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:17.160
Jund and I about these Pentagon you
know, the Pentagon situation and how that

340
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:22.839
seems to have changed some things M. But I found it. I found

341
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:25.440
it kind of curious. The other
day, I was talking to my sister

342
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:32.039
and her husband. M was a
scientist at Los Alamos Slabs for years in

343
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:37.160
the nuclear program there, and when
I brought up to him casually one day,

344
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:38.319
I said, hey, you know, I'm doing a show in UFOs.

345
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:41.640
What do you think of that?
Do you think it's crazy? Well,

346
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:45.119
he goes, well, I believe
there's actually something to it. And

347
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.839
I was shocked. I was totally
shocked. You know scientists would just say

348
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.359
something like that. He says that
very well could be. And Betty might

349
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.039
not have said that five months ago. No, no, no, this

350
00:27:56.119 --> 00:28:00.640
was this was a three or four
years ago. So I'm bringing up bringing

351
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.440
up this case of the Pentagon because
I told my sister the other day.

352
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.440
My sister, I know, she
thinks I'm wacky. I mean, she

353
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.880
got on the wall over there,
there's an alien crossing sign thing she sent

354
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:15.519
me for Christmas, and you know, she thinks I'm totally wacky talking about

355
00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:18.759
the UFO topics. So the other
day I had a conversation with her and

356
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:22.319
I said, hey, you know, the Pentagon's actually come out and says

357
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:26.079
that there they were taking a serious
look at UFOs. What do you think

358
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:30.440
about that? She immediately, well, how's the weather there? She doesn't

359
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.440
want to talk about it. She
just thinks she has her mind made up.

360
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.839
So one of the things I wanted
I wanted to talk to you about

361
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.880
two tonight, somewhere along the line
is a Robertson panel, because I know

362
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:45.440
that was in your book. And
do you think this is a carry on

363
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:52.119
the way we all act about this
topic from that, or do you think

364
00:28:52.160 --> 00:29:00.279
that without that it naturally would have
occurred. I'm trying to think how to

365
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:04.039
answer that. The Robertson panel basically
said publicly that, um, it wasn't

366
00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:07.160
important, There wasn't anything to it, and you know, the background was

367
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.920
it of it was we can't get
people to panic because it's going to cause

368
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:18.039
you know, problems for maybe civic
problems, maybe a headache for the Air

369
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:22.000
Force public relations. And then on
top of that, it could be used

370
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:27.599
to buy enemies like the Russians.
At that point to uh, there's something

371
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:32.799
strange could be used by enemies like
the Russians to you know, to um

372
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:41.839
full to stabilize and infiltrade. I
guess our military um. But at this

373
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:48.039
point, I don't think that what's
going on with to the Stars really has

374
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:51.480
a lot to do with the government. It has mostly to do with to

375
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:55.720
the Stars. UM That's my impression. And I think what they're trying to

376
00:29:55.799 --> 00:30:00.359
do, whether you trust them or
not a with them or not or whatever,

377
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:04.480
I mean, I've I've got serious
questions about their motivations, but I

378
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:10.920
think one of their motivations is that
they want to make it okay for people

379
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:12.960
to talk about this, and you
know, damned if they haven't done that,

380
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:18.079
So that's good. Yeah, you
know, well, academics are talking

381
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:21.519
about it like like alle hundred,
you said, the news the media is

382
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:26.119
talking about it, not snickering about
it, So that's a step. Whatever

383
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:27.880
their endgame is, I have no
idea. I don't. I don't think

384
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:30.279
their endgame is what they what they
say it is. But we'll see.

385
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:34.000
You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna
have one listener that's going to be extremely

386
00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:38.440
happy hearing you say that, because
he's been trying to get that message out

387
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:42.039
there. He thinks that it's it's
two different things going on there, and

388
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:48.359
their motivation is he think believes their
motivation is financial, and why is it?

389
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:52.920
Why do they have entertainment involved at
all in the in the situation?

390
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:56.400
I think that's part of it.
I mean, if you if you want

391
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:59.920
to say it's this thing and get
happy or mad about it, I think

392
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:03.279
you're already off on the wrong foot
because I think it's doing many things,

393
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.400
some of which you may agree with
and may like and may think is a

394
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.519
good thing, and other things probably
nobody really knows about except the people in

395
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:15.640
it, that you may not be
happy about. So I don't know everybody

396
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:21.039
and everybody involved in it as former
government, former former intelligence, And the

397
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:25.000
first thing I said when this came
out was, why do you trust people

398
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:29.000
that you've never trusted before? Government
lies? It's terrible. They're never going

399
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:30.720
to tell us the truth. Why
should we believe anything they say? Okay,

400
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:33.200
let's tell you exactly what you want
to hear. Oh, they're telling

401
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.599
the truth. That's wonderful. That's
a mistake. I think it's It kind

402
00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:41.319
of goes along with a line of
I've heard you say in your show that

403
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:48.400
disclosure will not be disclosure unless it's
exactly what someone wants to hear. So

404
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:53.599
yeah, philosophy, Yeah, yeah, won't be accepted as disclosure unless it's

405
00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:59.079
exactly what somebody wants to hear.
I mean, one thing that all these

406
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:05.319
announcements have been doing is reaffirming at
the DUFO communities, or at least people

407
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:08.440
that are into it, they're deeply
held beliefs, their idea about what's been

408
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:14.519
going on for a long time.
It conforms to the myth that we've built

409
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:16.640
up about what all this is,
or at least what we think it is.

410
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:20.440
When I say myth, I don't
mean something that's a lie, I

411
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:25.279
mean something or that's made up.
It's something that we all believe, or

412
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:30.160
a lot of people believe based on
what's been going on, what's popular,

413
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:32.559
who has the best you know,
who has the best story, who's the

414
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:42.440
most charismatic, and those stories are
being supported seemingly almost one hundred percent by

415
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:46.400
some of these releases. And what
some of these people are saying from to

416
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:52.680
the Stars that kind of worries me. It worries me when you hear exactly

417
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:55.200
what you want to hear that that
should make you immediately wonder what's going on?

418
00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:58.960
And nobody and a lot of people
are, you know, they're kind

419
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:05.359
of mad about what they there's a
vocal like, you know, a vocal

420
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:07.759
minority saying, you know what I'm
saying, we should we should kind of

421
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:10.480
step back here. But a lot
of people love it, they think it's

422
00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:16.319
great. Um, but I urge
caution. I also urge people not to

423
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:22.440
get neither excited nor mad, you
know, just just kind of then out

424
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:25.720
listen to what's happening, see what's
happening, and see what might come out

425
00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:30.640
of it. Because the minute you
start what's the word, the minute you

426
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:32.839
start getting excited by something's held up
in front of your face. It looks

427
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.480
all fun. You're missing all the
other stuff that's going around on around it

428
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.960
that might not be so loud and
fun and all that. So that's what

429
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:45.319
I orige with a lot of people
is just to be unemotional about it yet

430
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:49.319
interested. Does that make sense?
Yeah, that's that's really a very good,

431
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:53.400
really really good advice I think.
Um So I want to just first

432
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:58.240
of all, we didn't actually say
who you were, m you've been on

433
00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:00.720
the show before. I didn't think
we really have to go there, and

434
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:05.000
so I will tell the listener that
if you search on YouTube or on my

435
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.760
podcast on podcast ufo dot com Greg
Bishop, we have an interview we did

436
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:14.599
and back in twenty sixteen, I
think it was September twenty sixteen, So

437
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.199
that's on there, so you can
find out all about Greg also on his

438
00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:23.880
websites and his podcast. I highly
recommend anyone to check out his podcast.

439
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:29.760
It really really is good. He's
fun and people that his guests are great

440
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.079
as well. So that one of
the questions that came in, what's your

441
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:38.480
opinion on how encounters have totally different
experiences for individuals, more to the point

442
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:44.519
where some people do not perceive the
same vision or don't even say see anything,

443
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:47.480
even though they may be standing right
next to someone who does. That's

444
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.239
a good question. Uh, yeah, it's a great question. I think

445
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.960
it's right in my wheelhouse right now
because that's something I'm working on at the

446
00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:00.599
moment. It's I would say,
it's odd to me. That's a horrible

447
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:02.920
thing to say. It's like,
what, it's not obvious to you?

448
00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:08.280
You must be insane. Um.
What interests me right now is when somebody

449
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:12.920
has a weird experience, be it
a UFO, abduction, wherever you want

450
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.639
to call it, even you know, ghosts, sees acrypted something like that,

451
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:22.239
what is going on in their mind? What is their mind trying to

452
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.920
do when they see something that makes
no sense whatsoever to them? And I

453
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:30.159
think everybody's an individual, so everybody's
going to have a different reaction. Um,

454
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:32.079
you know, some of them,
most people, if if it's far

455
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:36.079
enough away, a lot of people
have basically the same reaction. That's a

456
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:39.280
light doing weird things. But as
things get closer, uh, and more

457
00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:44.960
defined and weirder and more frightening,
because it's right near you, I think

458
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:52.320
people's impressions and more importantly, their
memories and what they remember from it,

459
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.840
what they talk about. Those start
to diverge based on their personal you know,

460
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:00.159
their background, their DNA, they're
bias, is their upbringing, what

461
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:02.400
they read in the paper that day, you know, what kind of day

462
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:06.239
they were having, what kind of
problems are having in their life. All

463
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:10.840
these things enter into a mind trying
to make sense of something that doesn't make

464
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:16.119
any sense. There's also issues of
like what happens to a trauma victim?

465
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:20.400
How do they remember things? What
does what does your mind and your perception

466
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.840
do when you're seeing something that is
that you can't figure out if it's a

467
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:28.480
threat or not because you've never seen
something like that. So I think what

468
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:34.920
accounts for this is that that divergence
is just our individuality and how we react

469
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.519
to the whatever weird thing is happening
in the environment at the time. I

470
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:43.800
hope that answers the question can you
give an example of that? And are

471
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:50.719
you talking mostly about when when there's
people that there's two different witnesses or what

472
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:54.000
are you talking about when they come
up with a different a whole different scenario.

473
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.440
Yeah, there's there are instances where
people come up with the different scenario

474
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:07.199
U. I have an example from
a long time ago whereas somebody said that

475
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:12.679
there was a large rectangular UFO landed
in front of them. I think this

476
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.679
was from Kentucky. Um, I
wish, I wish I could be more

477
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:20.960
exact about it, but that one
of the witnesses says there were, you

478
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.119
know, beings came out of it
as big rectangular ufo looked like a I

479
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:27.960
don't know, maybe maybe look like
the size of a bus. And the

480
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.840
other person said they saw a school
bus with a lot of bunch of kids

481
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:37.400
in it going by. So you
know, it'd be nice if I had

482
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:42.559
it, could have the newspaper and
the date and all that to cite exactly.

483
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:47.760
But um, the fact that one
of your listeners brought up that that

484
00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:54.280
not everybody always sees the same thing, I think is evidence that there is

485
00:37:54.320 --> 00:38:00.639
something going on that involves our consciousness
and our way of thinking about things and

486
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:07.119
everybody's personality, et cetera. What
I said earlier, it's coming through so

487
00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:12.079
many different filters, and so since
you have so many different filters, you're

488
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:17.639
going to get different impressions, different
memories all that. And I think by

489
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:22.079
and large, a lot of researchers
ignore that because it doesn't fit in with

490
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.480
a certain paradigm they have. For
instance, and I've said this before,

491
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:32.800
this guy that told me the story
of the rabbit, he told me apart

492
00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:36.880
from the you know, some other
things that went on with his investigation.

493
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.119
He said, I don't think that's
important at all. It's just something silly

494
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:42.639
that happened, and we can ignore
it. And I said, no,

495
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:46.599
it's not. That's the most important
part of the the account. I think.

496
00:38:47.559 --> 00:38:50.239
He said, yeah, but what
do you do with that? And

497
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:52.360
I said, I don't know what
you'd do with it, but it should

498
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:58.639
be it should be logged, it
should be entered into the database and see

499
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:00.039
what can be done with it.
I had my friend and Susan Saint Clair

500
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:04.280
on the show a few weeks ago, and I was we were talking about,

501
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:08.320
well, what do you do with
these um subjective impressions? How do

502
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:15.000
you categorize something that's how do you
quantify something that's that's a qualitative, you

503
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:17.679
know, how do you take somebody's
impression and put it into a database and

504
00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:22.039
what do you do with it?
And I, you know, the answer

505
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:24.239
was, we're not exactly sure what
you do with it? I mean what

506
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:29.400
you can do with it. But
what she said was, I think if

507
00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:37.440
you look to u cultural stories,
myth archetypes, things that people things that

508
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:42.400
people use in different cultures to make
sense out of the world. This might

509
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:47.039
be something that is important when people
have a strange experience and don't filter what

510
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:51.360
they say and don't throw out anything
they say. I think people are doing

511
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:53.840
this now. A lot of researchers
are really listening to the witness and letting

512
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:58.280
them speak, which is good,
right, you know, getting back to

513
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.719
the plat bunny someone to know what
that symbolized. But I do get it

514
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:06.760
because you know, I mean,
it's like I have Mike McClellan coming on.

515
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:10.760
He's been on before about owls.
You know, while people see owls

516
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:15.599
and you know when they're se a
UFO. And I actually talked to someone

517
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:21.199
in Native American country out in Arizona
that never even talked about UFOs. It

518
00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:22.559
was just someone like off the street, and they said a big owl came

519
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:29.039
after they saw a ufo. It's
bizarre. And so I agree with you,

520
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:32.320
like that could be a clue to
something else. So a question that

521
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:38.679
came in from chat is do you
have any thoughts around some in academic in

522
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:45.199
the academic world debating whether we are
living in a simulation. Is that something

523
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.000
you've ever talked about before, or
I'm not sure. I think I've talked

524
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:52.079
about it, and i've It's part
of what I'm interested in right now.

525
00:40:52.599 --> 00:41:00.119
I think that if you look at
reality as as based in information rather than

526
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.800
based in physics, which is a
very big area and it still gives me

527
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:12.000
a headache to think about it,
that there is an idea that the universe,

528
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.480
at its very base, our reality
is composed of information that, by

529
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:24.280
our consciousness interacting with it an existing
causes the real world to be created.

530
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:29.719
Now that sounds like solipsism, It
sounds really silly. It sounds like something

531
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.199
a new age person would say.
But it's also something that John Wheeler,

532
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:37.360
who was a Nobel Prize winning physicist, said about ten years before he died

533
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:39.440
in the nineteen nineties. He said, I think at the base of all

534
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:45.679
of our reality is information, and
what we see as reality is the end

535
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:50.519
of a series of questions that we
don't even realize we're asking about it and

536
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:54.000
forming it into what we think is
real. And I was speaking to a

537
00:41:54.039 --> 00:42:00.320
researcher about this, and he said, well, don't you see that in

538
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:02.880
a physical universe, a lot of
this weird stuff just is weird. It

539
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:08.400
does It doesn't make any sense.
There's no way to reconcile it with how

540
00:42:08.440 --> 00:42:12.320
we look at reality, how we
how we think of reality and physics.

541
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:19.559
But in a informational universe, it's
almost imperative that weird stuff happens. Does

542
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:24.000
that make sense? Yeah, that's
it. That is interesting. And also,

543
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:30.039
um, you know when you're talking
about information, you know, it

544
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:34.199
just makes me first of all,
Um, do you think there's like a

545
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:40.239
collective consciousness of people gathered and witnessing
something or how how could something like that

546
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:45.039
happen when there's like say, a
mass sighting of whether it's a UFO or

547
00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:51.440
Bigfoot or whatever it is, and
something really on the outside, something paranormal

548
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:59.239
that we're just not doesn't fit the
normal realm you are. You're asking,

549
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:02.719
how, how is it if everybody
has their own subjective in person impression,

550
00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:07.000
how is it that a lot of
people see the same thing in certain situations?

551
00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:13.840
I think that the people. I
think that's because sometimes people see interpret

552
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:16.239
things the same way and sometimes they
don't. If you're standing there talking to

553
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:21.239
a bunch of people and you say, and you're giving a lecture, thirty

554
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:23.039
percent of the people are thinking one
thing. Thirty percent of people are thinking

555
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:27.679
another thing. Although if you talk
about something that everybody has experience with or

556
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:30.039
knows about, even on a subconscious
level, I think they're all pretty much

557
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:35.239
following in the same way that you're
They're always all thinking about the same thing

558
00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:37.480
at the same time. But when
you start talking about something that they don't

559
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:43.679
all have experience with, it starts
diverging. So if people can, you

560
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:45.119
know, a group of people can
put the whatever it is in front of

561
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:50.880
them in the UFO box, I
think that the UFO box works for them

562
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.559
and that they have some agreement on
it. Also, you know, they

563
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:57.559
talk about it later. Are you
seeing what I'm seeing? They describe it

564
00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:00.239
to each other, and just by
talking about it and coding it in language

565
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:06.280
and trying to make sense of it. I think these memories are codified and

566
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:12.320
created that way. I mean it's
um I gave a lecture and also wrote

567
00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:15.920
a piece for Reframing the Debate the
UFOs Reframing the Debate book where I address

568
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:24.159
this specifically in regards to how lawyers
are having problems now with witness testimony because

569
00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:29.159
it can be coerced, it can
be changed, it can be um.

570
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:32.840
It is subject to the questioner quite
a bit. So it's it's hard to

571
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:39.159
you know, give a good get
a good exact account, because the person

572
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:43.079
is not going to remember it exactly
as it happened, because our brains do

573
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:45.719
and this has been proven, our
brains and our nervous systems are not recording

574
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:52.840
devices that whatever something happens, your
brain and your your nervous system and your

575
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:58.039
your memory and all that is figuring
out how to use this memory as something

576
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:01.559
useful later, um, not as
something that happened and recording it saying that's

577
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:07.719
what happened. Your consciousness pays attention
to what is important to you and what

578
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:13.320
you can use later UMU. Such
a like if you're, if you if

579
00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:15.880
you have if you have a bad
relationship and you break up, you and

580
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:19.480
the other person are not going to
remember it the same way because you have

581
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:22.159
different impressions of it, and both
of you could be wrong, both of

582
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:25.239
you could be right, who knows, or both of you could be you

583
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:30.800
know. Um it's usually somewhere in
between. The two impressions. But the

584
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:36.400
thing is that the memory of it
is being is being encoded in your mind

585
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:37.559
and the way that makes the most
sense to you, and it can help

586
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:39.639
you in the future, Like I'm
going to avoid this kind of person in

587
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:44.039
the future, so I'm going to
remember it this way. You're not thinking

588
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:45.679
of it that way. But I
think that's how it works. And I

589
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:52.199
think that some of the same stuff
is going on with paranormal experiences. And

590
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.400
I'm not saying people make things.
That's one thing I've given this talk and

591
00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:59.039
a few people have said, well, you're saying that people make everything up

592
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:01.840
and it doesn't exist, and you're
a debunker. It's like that that is

593
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:06.559
not what I'm saying at all.
What I'm saying is something weird happens.

594
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.960
But I don't know if our memories
and our everything that we used to record

595
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:16.599
that that impression is that accurate,
especially with something that you can't produce on

596
00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:22.239
demand. Like everybody knows what if
somebody runs into somebody with a car um.

597
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:25.079
Everybody pretty much knows what that is. But you know, having something

598
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:29.760
strange walking into your bedroom at night, not everybody has that experience, and

599
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:32.440
you can't have it on demand.
So there's there's some divergence about what's going

600
00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:36.599
on. I mean there has to
be because people don't have a frame of

601
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:38.719
reference for it. Am I making
sense? Yeah? But you know what

602
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:45.159
about people that are considered to be
the trained observer, you know, say,

603
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:50.039
uh, say like a military pilot, or say an astronaut or a

604
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:52.679
police officer. You know, these
are all what they call trained observers.

605
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:55.960
If you're saying not right, and
I've had this happened, I was,

606
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:01.079
I forgot what course I was taking
where and what, But I would I

607
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:06.679
had this situation where someone came into
a room and they did something real quickly

608
00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:08.639
and then left, and then you
know, like five minutes later, the

609
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:15.199
person running the course said, all
right to say exactly what you just saw,

610
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:17.440
you know, and you know,
some people said he had a brown

611
00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:21.079
shirt. He said he had a
blue shirt. You know, I mean

612
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.039
it was really it was actually kind
of funny. So but if you're actually

613
00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:30.239
trained to identify something that's you're you
know, what you've been trained to do.

614
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:37.519
I think it's a little different than
our mind does more becoming tuned with

615
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:43.920
recording what we're seeing. Unless yeah, yeah, well they're trained observers in

616
00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:49.480
the observations of what they expect.
If it's something that they don't expect,

617
00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:52.599
I think their mind's going to say, well, it's this thing and everything

618
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.880
will follow from that idea. Or
if they have no idea, maybe they

619
00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:00.159
just you know, hopefully they just
give subjective impressions. How I also noticed

620
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:06.599
another thing. The closer an encounter
is the more it affects people, you

621
00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:08.880
know what I mean. It seems
to be have more an effect on their

622
00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:13.559
memories, their psyche and everything.
The closer the encounter is, if you

623
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.119
just see a light flying through the
sky, most people are going to agree

624
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:19.199
that there's a light fling that's through
the sky. But if something starts to

625
00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:23.239
approach you, I think that the
impressions that people have and their memories start

626
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.920
to diverge at that point, unless
they talk about it later and then they

627
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:30.440
all kind of agree what that memory
is and their minds say, okay,

628
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:35.519
we all experience this thing. But
I bet if you could separate people during

629
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:38.719
a close encounter and ask them all
different all the same questions, you would

630
00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:45.960
get divergent accounts, maybe widely divergent
accounts. Well, you know, I

631
00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:50.679
talk to someone that not you know
another person I love talking to people by

632
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:54.400
the way, that you casually meet
somewhere and you bring up the UFO topic

633
00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:57.800
and someone in the room and saying, yeah, well I saw one,

634
00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:02.280
you know, and they talk about
it, and so what about this just

635
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:07.159
is reminding me of a person I
spoke to and she said that her aunt

636
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:08.719
kept saying it was an airplane,
it was an airplane. She said,

637
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:15.079
no, that ain't no airplane.
It's how she put it. And so

638
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:19.760
what about that person that's expecting to
see an airplane and then realize this is

639
00:49:20.039 --> 00:49:23.599
something else? How do you how
does that fit in your philosophy? Well,

640
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:27.760
your mind is going right back and
forth, constantly going what is that?

641
00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:29.840
What is that? What is that? What is that? You're trying

642
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:31.599
to figure that out. We know
that from talking to people and they're trying

643
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:35.840
to come up with an explanation.
Now, at some point, some people

644
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:37.519
will be able to come up with
an explanation and say whatever, or their

645
00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:40.599
mind says, I really can't handle
that. This is unknown. So I

646
00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:45.239
know that's an airplane, so that's
going to be an airplane for them.

647
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:47.440
But other people may not be so
sure, and they'll say, I've you

648
00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:52.639
know, I'm trusting my eyes and
it doesn't look like anything that I've ever

649
00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:58.000
seen before, so I don't know
what that was. It's it's funny because

650
00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:00.280
I get to this point where people
say, well, people aren't you know,

651
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:02.199
you're saying people aren't seeing what they
say they're seeing, and they're they're

652
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:07.039
they're they're they're just uh, what's
the word, they're just being inaccurate about

653
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:12.719
it. My response is they're being
as accurate as they possibly can. But

654
00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:17.199
we have to realize that, UM, it is affected by how they feel

655
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:21.039
about it. Who else is there
with the time of the day. It

656
00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:23.320
is what kind of person they are. Are they completely not interested in the

657
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:27.880
subject? Have they never? You
know? Are they totally interested in UFOs?

658
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:31.800
It's it's all subjective when it's going
on, which is why it's important,

659
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:37.400
I think to get all these objective
impersonations from impersonations, impressions from people,

660
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:44.599
UM, no matter how insane they
might see because seem because it's it

661
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:46.880
will help UM, it will help
us, I think, to a greater

662
00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:51.480
understanding what's going on. I see
some of the people in the in the

663
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:52.599
forums, you're saying, you know, I know what I saw It's like,

664
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:55.480
I'm not saying you didn't see what
you saw. I wasn't there.

665
00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:00.760
I'm watching the chat now, Yeah, is that what you're saying. Yeah,

666
00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:05.800
yeah, it'd be nice. You'd
be nice to Greg in the chat

667
00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:09.280
room. Okay, No, nobody's
being rude. They just have questions and

668
00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:12.519
they're saying, well, how can
that be? I know what I saw.

669
00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:15.760
It's like, I would never tell
somebody you didn't see that. What

670
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:22.159
I would What I would say is
that is your impression that should be edited

671
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:24.440
into the database. And I you
know, I honor that you saw what

672
00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:29.360
you say you saw, but I
don't know what it was. I wasn't

673
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:32.440
standing there. Neither you know,
and neither was the researcher who talks to

674
00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:36.880
you or your friends that you tell
about later. So, speaking of that,

675
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:43.960
have you actually ever seen UFO?
Yeah, a couple of times,

676
00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:47.880
but never close enough to be exciting. I saw a light over Death Valley

677
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:52.639
or Near Death Valley. It appeared
to be over the Mercury Test site,

678
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:55.480
you know where all the in Nevada
where all the atomic bombs were set off

679
00:51:55.480 --> 00:51:59.239
in the fifties and sixties, I
think seventies. I think they stopped in

680
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.880
the seventies. But yeah, I
was driving a death Valley like three in

681
00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:05.719
the morning. One time I said, this really really bright white light.

682
00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:07.880
I couldn't even tell how far away
it was, but if I had to,

683
00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:14.440
you know, estimate, it was
probably over the border in Nevada,

684
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:17.239
which was over the Mercury Test site, or you know, maybe an airy

685
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:22.400
area fifty one or something. It
did not move. It just sat there.

686
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:25.159
It was really bright. It was
not a star, and it was

687
00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:29.960
there for a few hours and now
maybe it's one o'clock and so like four

688
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:31.400
in the morning. After looking at
it for a while, going back in

689
00:52:31.480 --> 00:52:35.400
my hotel room, coming back out
and looking at it. Finally one time

690
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:37.480
I came out and it wasn't there
anymore. I looked at it through binoculars

691
00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:40.360
and it just looked like a blob. It just looked like a bright blob.

692
00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:44.400
But the thing is, it's so
far away through the atmosphere is making

693
00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:46.639
it look like that. But it
wasn't an airplane because it didn't move,

694
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:51.159
and it wasn't a star because a
star, and you know, the background

695
00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:53.920
stars moved over those four hours in
the moon moved, but the spot didn't.

696
00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:58.880
So it was something that was floating
in the air. The other thing

697
00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:04.239
I saw was a very strange shape
near the Santa Barbara Airport near Sunset,

698
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:07.440
I don't know about maybe eight or
nine years ago, and I described it

699
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:13.039
in it defies language. What I
saw. It made no sense to me.

700
00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:15.760
It just looked like it looked like
a big black thing made out of

701
00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:22.519
six looked like black like hexagonal tubes, as if they were giant pencils.

702
00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:25.920
It was about a quarter mile away
from me, it looked, and they

703
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:29.639
were arranged like a like a wheel, but with no rim around. It

704
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:31.960
was just the spokes of a wheel, and one side of it had black

705
00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:43.519
a black line, and little little
had black rectangles along the line. And

706
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:45.440
some people said, well, maybe
it was a kite, and it's like,

707
00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:47.480
I don't think it was a kite
because it was stock still. It

708
00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:51.360
did not move. And the funny
thing was, I was just in a

709
00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:53.599
private play that took off over right
where that thing was an hour before,

710
00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:58.840
and it wasn't there then, so
I called. I called the control tower

711
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:00.840
the next day. The dumb thing
was as I saw it from a quarter

712
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:05.599
mile away, and then I went
home. I don't know why I did

713
00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:07.199
that. It's like, oh,
that's very weird. I guess I better

714
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:10.079
go home now. So, and
this is what happens to a lot of

715
00:54:10.119 --> 00:54:15.000
people. They see something very strange
and their mind doesn't register that it's something

716
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:21.320
very strange that they should investigate or
pay attention to. And that's what my

717
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:22.599
mind did. I mean, I've
been looking at the stuff for years and

718
00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:28.880
I suddenly finally see something extremely weird
in the sky and I leave. And

719
00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:30.760
it wasn't that high in the sky
either. It was like maybe a one

720
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:34.159
hundred feet off the ground. It
might have been eighty or one hundred feet

721
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:36.880
across, and it was about a
quarter mile away from me, floating over

722
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:38.559
a salt marsh next to the beach, near the end of a runway at

723
00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:43.480
Santa Barbara Airport. I called the
control tower the next day and they said,

724
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:45.719
we had no reports of anything like
that. It's like, really,

725
00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:50.960
it was right there. It was
completely visible. You would have seen it

726
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:53.920
from the control tower easier than me. But they said, nope, nothing

727
00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:00.719
like that. Isn't that something?
Well, I actually know someone, a

728
00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:07.360
friend who their whole family had a
UFO sighting and it was really strange.

729
00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:12.519
These things like were hovering over power
lines and going up and down and like

730
00:55:13.119 --> 00:55:17.440
not really moving going, you know, just up and down basically, And

731
00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:22.440
so the whole family got bored and
went inside except for her, you know,

732
00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:24.480
they're like, oh, oh that's
cool, and just went inside like

733
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:29.320
they had enough of it, and
for about five minutes. And that was

734
00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:32.519
another one that lasted a long time. Yeah, I think it's because people

735
00:55:32.599 --> 00:55:37.000
somewhere in their mind people saying,
I really can't make any sense of this,

736
00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:38.920
so it just kind of Dean Rayden
told me this when I talked to

737
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:42.119
me, says, well, I
think a lot of weird things happened to

738
00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:45.079
people, but they have no place
to put it in their minds. It

739
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:47.079
just kind of falls off the table, which is why you hear people saying,

740
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:51.679
remember that time where we saw that
thing, or you know it was

741
00:55:51.719 --> 00:55:54.719
real that big light came in the
room and a group of people will not

742
00:55:54.880 --> 00:55:59.000
talk about something for years, or
you won't talk about something for years,

743
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:01.559
and suddenly something your memory, you
think of it, and you know the

744
00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:05.400
explanation for that, As Raydon told
me, he thought, was well,

745
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:07.800
your mind has no place to put
it. There's no drawer to put it

746
00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:10.599
in, so it just falls off
the table until something jogs your memory again

747
00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:16.639
many years later, which is another
strange thing that happens with this phenomenon.

748
00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:21.039
Right, I'm going to get to
another one of these questions we have here

749
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:25.880
with regards to alleged abduction encounters.
The norm is that ets are interested in

750
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:32.320
our biology and give physical examinations.
Do you think this is much deeper in

751
00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:39.199
and that they may be more interested
in our emotional response, consciousness, or

752
00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:45.199
our souls. That's another question that
came in through email. Yeah, I

753
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:47.079
think Carla Turner said that a long
time ago. I don't know what happens

754
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:52.199
during abductions. I have no idea. Nobody has a video of it or

755
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:54.000
anything like that, or at least
anything where they can say this is exactly

756
00:56:54.079 --> 00:57:00.239
what happened. But from the subjective
experience of people that have gone through it,

757
00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:06.519
it seems like it's more intimately intimately
connected to what humans are, what

758
00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:10.400
we are doing, and how we
feel about things than any kind of biological

759
00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:14.960
experiment or anything like that, which
leads me to believe that it has nothing

760
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:16.400
to do with, you know,
scientists coming here to do anything, but

761
00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:22.440
has more to do with um what
we look like to something else that's not

762
00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:28.360
us, if that makes sense.
So, you know, and I don't

763
00:57:28.360 --> 00:57:30.239
know. I don't know what that
thing is. I'm not going to say

764
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:35.079
it's aliens from other planets or anything. Um, it's it's it's I think

765
00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.719
it's it's a subjective experience, and
it's been I think it's been changed by

766
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:42.119
researchers trying to figure out what it
is and telling people what it is.

767
00:57:43.719 --> 00:57:45.719
Um, you know, you've been
at this a real long time, and

768
00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:49.119
I have a lot of friends that
I talked to quite often that also have

769
00:57:49.239 --> 00:57:53.119
been at it a very long time. Do you sometimes get frustrated? I

770
00:57:53.199 --> 00:57:57.440
knows it going way off our topic. Do you get frustrated and say,

771
00:57:58.079 --> 00:58:00.239
sometimes you just want to hang your
hat up on the whole UFO thing.

772
00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:06.159
That's what. Yeah, the friends
say, Yeah, a lot of people

773
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:08.119
come in to have that happened.
There's like, Okay, that's it.

774
00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:10.800
I don't want anything to do with
it anymore. And then they come back,

775
00:58:12.440 --> 00:58:15.599
Um, Jim Moseley had that happened. Don Ecker had that happened to

776
00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:17.719
him. There's there's so many people
that just get sick of it because,

777
00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:22.039
you know, I think one it's
a it's an insane thing to be interested

778
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:28.239
in and it'll drive you crazy.
Um. Two, I think the phenomenon

779
00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:31.679
in some way access is part of
our mind that it's not stable, you

780
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:36.000
know what I mean. It's a
destabilizing thing to be interested in this stuff.

781
00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:40.519
Um And but the thing is,
if you've got a certain mindset where

782
00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:44.559
you're into it, you can't get
away from it. I haven't heard too

783
00:58:44.599 --> 00:58:47.800
many people walk away from it and
never come back. There's still some interest.

784
00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:52.639
I had Jeff Ritzmond on my show
and he was saying that, uh,

785
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:57.159
you know the UFO encounter or whatever
it is that you're encountering with the

786
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:02.360
with in this in this area seems
to thrive on and he calls, you

787
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:06.840
know, it's part of the trickster
archetype. But it seems to thrive on,

788
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:14.079
Uh, things that aren't stable and
you know liminal states, like people

789
00:59:14.320 --> 00:59:20.119
have these things happening to them when
they're uh, when during a divorce or

790
00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:22.280
something else is going on in their
life that's that's not stable. Or if

791
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:25.320
something they do have a stable life
and this happens to them, it completely

792
00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:31.280
destabilizes them. So it's it's it's
not something to be messed with. If

793
00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:35.360
you want, you know, if
you want to at least in a very

794
00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:37.320
intimate way, if you want a
you know, a quiet, normal,

795
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:43.400
not very exciting life. I've never
really thought of it that way. I've

796
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:47.760
thought of my interests in the topic
is almost an optimistic one in a way

797
00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:52.320
of um, you know, listening
to what people have to say, but

798
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:57.039
also thinking, you know, it's
possible we're not alone and um so and

799
00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:00.119
it's possible. Not such a boring
world, you I mean, there's there's

800
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:04.159
a lot of things, you know, make me interested in it that I

801
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:08.559
don't necessarily think unstable. But all
right, so you're talking about people that

802
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:15.239
always come back. What about your
friend Bill Moore? I know, you

803
01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:19.280
know there was kind of the incident
back. Um what year was that where

804
01:00:20.280 --> 01:00:24.519
eight nineteen eighty nine? And I
know you're good friends with Bill, so,

805
01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:30.480
um so what about him? He
has no interest at all in coming

806
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:37.320
back? Correct? Yes, correct, Um, he's one person that escaped

807
01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:44.199
it. He just decided that he
was sick of the noise, um and

808
01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:49.480
that what he had been through he
could not explain to people. And he

809
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:51.760
actually also said, look, if
I had to do it over again,

810
01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:53.320
I wouldn't be so arrogant about it, which he has. You know,

811
01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:59.480
he's like he admitted to me,
but his frustration stem from I am doing

812
01:00:59.559 --> 01:01:02.239
these things, I am researching these
things, I'm talking to these people,

813
01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:06.920
I'm looking at these documents, and
people are coming in and yelling at me,

814
01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:12.079
giving, you know, criticizing me
for things that I've never said,

815
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:14.920
never done, and do not intend
to do, and never had into.

816
01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:16.440
They're saying, why do you why
did you do this? Well, I

817
01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:20.239
didn't do that. Why do you
seem to think this way? Well,

818
01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:22.920
I don't think that way. And
he said that happened over and over and

819
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:27.000
over and over and over, and
he just got tired of the emotional reactions.

820
01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:30.519
That's another thing about the UFO thing. There. I was talking to

821
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:32.239
somebody that is, you know,
he's got his foot in the ghost community

822
01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:36.679
and the Bigfoot community and all that. He said that the UFO community seems

823
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:42.519
to have the most rapid fights about
about what's going on. And we're trying

824
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:46.679
to figure out why is it that
the UFO community and the UFO subject inspires

825
01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:55.199
such emotional reaction at such an emotional
connection. And I think it's because it's

826
01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:59.320
you can't really pin it down you
know, Bigfoot's big Foot a ghost as

827
01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:04.039
a ghost, but a UFO,
it's it's it's many different things and people

828
01:02:04.119 --> 01:02:07.760
can't agree on it. And I
think there's actually something about the subject itself

829
01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:12.280
or the source of it, whatever
intelligence is behind her or whatever, that

830
01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:16.559
just doesn't mesh with our rational minds
very well. And we try to be

831
01:02:16.840 --> 01:02:21.880
rational people, so it messes with
that. Does that make sense? Yeah,

832
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:24.519
we have a caller on the line. Caller, your first name and

833
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:31.199
where are you calling from. It's
Andy from Stratford calling again. Hi,

834
01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:35.079
Andy, Welcome to the show.
Do you have a question for our guest

835
01:02:35.159 --> 01:02:39.679
tonight? Not a question, guys, but a story. And I've really

836
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:45.599
only told the story just a few
times in my life. In the early

837
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:49.800
nineties, when I was in college, I was in the Army National Guard

838
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:57.559
in New Hampshire and we were training
over in Vermont, near Mount Stowe and

839
01:02:57.679 --> 01:03:01.440
the Ethan l in firing range,
and about I was in my early twenties.

840
01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:06.119
This happened about I'm gonna say four
o'clock in the morning. We were

841
01:03:06.199 --> 01:03:12.079
on night maneuvers and we were waiting
for the enemy to attack us, and

842
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:16.039
it was very quiet, and then
all of a sudden, the shooting began,

843
01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:21.039
but it began on the other side
of our perimeter, so we my

844
01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:24.280
buddy and I knew we weren'ting to
see any fighting. And within a few

845
01:03:24.400 --> 01:03:30.800
moments of the gunfire and our artillery
rounds and everything starting, a green,

846
01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:37.840
glowing ball came out of the woods
towards us. We watched it approach,

847
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:43.280
We watched it cross our path and
then go off into the distance about the

848
01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:46.360
speed of a dog might run.
It was maybe fifteen twenty feet off the

849
01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:52.800
ground, about forty feet away from
us, and it was a glowing like

850
01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:58.760
a sickly green, almost like a
glow stick that's dying, and it was

851
01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:03.639
dodging tree brandes, and it was
intelligently controlled. And the two of us

852
01:04:03.719 --> 01:04:09.360
watched to go by as plain as
day, and both looked at each other

853
01:04:09.639 --> 01:04:13.960
and said, what the hell was
that? And it stuck with me my

854
01:04:14.199 --> 01:04:19.159
entire life. I'll never explain it. And it was just so bizarre,

855
01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:24.719
and yet it was right there in
front of me, as plain as could

856
01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:29.800
be. And he saw it,
you know, my buddy, the guy

857
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:32.320
that was with me, saw it, and I've just never forgotten it.

858
01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:39.440
And years later I thought I saw
a similar green light once, and every

859
01:04:39.519 --> 01:04:43.000
nerve in my body went into alert. It scared the scared the hell out

860
01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:46.199
of me, and I broke into
a sweat, and you know, it

861
01:04:46.440 --> 01:04:49.840
was a false alarm, but I
couldn't believe how badly it scared me to

862
01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:56.559
think that I was about to see
it again. And I've seen some other

863
01:04:56.639 --> 01:05:00.280
weird stuff, but that's definitely the
weirdest one. So was it just two

864
01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:04.199
people that, just two people that
witnessed it, or was it the whole?

865
01:05:04.360 --> 01:05:09.079
Yeah, myself and myself and one
other guy. I was a sixty

866
01:05:09.159 --> 01:05:12.199
gunner and this guy was my assistant
gunner. We were in a foxhole.

867
01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:15.639
The sun was just kind of becoming
twilight, and you know, we had

868
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:18.480
night vision goggles with us and stuff. I didn't even think to use them.

869
01:05:18.559 --> 01:05:23.679
It all happened so quickly. But
this thing was silent and it was

870
01:05:24.840 --> 01:05:27.159
I mean, I'll never forget it. It's burned into my mind. And

871
01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:30.920
that opened me up to the idea
that there's so much more to our reality

872
01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:36.960
than we are want to admit or
most people can cope with. Well,

873
01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:41.760
very good, that's it. That's
that's my story, all right, all

874
01:05:41.840 --> 01:05:45.840
right, thanks for the call.
Thank you that that was a great story.

875
01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:47.400
I liked it. Yeah, no
problem, Yeah, you're welcome.

876
01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:51.440
Good good show, except for the
buffering, but who knows. Yeah,

877
01:05:51.519 --> 01:05:57.000
all right, I hope it's not
still doing that, but it's Chinese hackers.

878
01:05:59.679 --> 01:06:01.559
I'll I'll let you go Martin.
All right, thank you, Yeah,

879
01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:06.519
yep, all right, all right. Um yeah, that's uh.

880
01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:12.360
I love to hear like military type
uma incidents. I know there's at least

881
01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:15.280
one of those in your book.
I think I saw something in there.

882
01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:19.400
Uh yeah, um, so those
are those are great? Yeah. Ball

883
01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:25.239
of light phenomena has been going on
for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years,

884
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:31.280
probably longer um. And uh it's
there, you know, all countries,

885
01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:36.679
all cultures, um. And it
still happens now. And there's a

886
01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:41.199
lot of theories about what these balls
of light might be. What he describes

887
01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:43.960
actually also sounds and I don't say
that this is what it is, but

888
01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:46.199
it sounds like when people describe ball
lightning, it seems like it has an

889
01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:50.880
intelligence to it and we'll dodge around
things, and so who knows what these

890
01:06:50.960 --> 01:06:55.320
things are? Ball lightning they think
is some sort of electric plasma, but

891
01:06:56.440 --> 01:07:01.320
there's other forms of what are they
called bols? Balls of light? Um,

892
01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:06.079
all kinds of different colors. A
lot of them tend to be kind

893
01:07:06.119 --> 01:07:11.679
of kind of a reddish or a
peachy color. I've heard a lot of

894
01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:15.360
those. But yeah, that's that's
um. Who knows what's going on with

895
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:19.159
that, But it's a and what
controls them or what's behind them, or

896
01:07:19.239 --> 01:07:24.159
there's just a natural phenomena or there
some kind of consciousness that appears as a

897
01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:27.400
ball of light to us. Who
knows. Now, you actually had in

898
01:07:27.519 --> 01:07:32.679
your book somewhere where um, there
was some type of military program where they

899
01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:39.400
were experimenting with pulses, plasma pulses. Did you think there was actually something

900
01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:44.559
to that? You know, I'm
trying to remember what that remember that what

901
01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:47.599
that was? Well, I know
your book. It was something done in

902
01:07:47.639 --> 01:07:55.199
the nineteen nineties, I think in
maybe Kirkland or somewhere. Um. Oh,

903
01:07:55.280 --> 01:07:59.880
it might have had something to do
with um, what's that called crossed

904
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:03.119
lasers. They would cross them in
the atmosphere and where the lasers crossed,

905
01:08:03.199 --> 01:08:08.159
the air would be superheated to the
point where it would create a It would

906
01:08:08.440 --> 01:08:16.079
push the matter into the fourth form
of matter, which is a plasma solid

907
01:08:16.359 --> 01:08:20.960
liquid gas and plasma, and the
air would become superheated and turn into a

908
01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:25.439
plasma and cause these balls of light. Yeah, I think that's what you're

909
01:08:25.479 --> 01:08:28.560
referring to. People said, you
know, you wrote about this thing.

910
01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:30.039
It's like, well, I don't
remember. And they said, well,

911
01:08:30.079 --> 01:08:32.359
how can you not remember you wrote
about it? And I said, can

912
01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:36.600
you remember a conversation you had ten
years ago. It's sometimes it takes me

913
01:08:36.680 --> 01:08:41.359
a little bit to remember what I
wrote about, but that's what I seem

914
01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:47.000
to remember. And that they had
created some sort of a filter on these

915
01:08:47.079 --> 01:08:50.000
laser beams so that when they did
meet at a certain point in the air,

916
01:08:50.479 --> 01:08:56.760
that the crossed beams would create a
ball of plasma, or they could

917
01:08:56.760 --> 01:08:59.279
cross them at you know, at
a missile or something like that be able

918
01:08:59.319 --> 01:09:02.520
to shoot it down. Now they've
got lasers. They're so uh so powerful

919
01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:05.319
that they can just use one laser
and shoot down a missile. It's been

920
01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:10.920
um there's there's videos of it online
actually, and they've they've got airborne lasers.

921
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:13.960
Now. That's what they were testing
at Curtland for a while. The

922
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:18.119
problem was they couldn't get enough power
to get the laser to to uh to

923
01:09:18.359 --> 01:09:24.880
to to um to be able to
destroy anything. But now they've got they've

924
01:09:24.920 --> 01:09:29.680
got they've miniaturized everything. They've got
bigger batteries. I guess they use capacitors

925
01:09:29.720 --> 01:09:32.640
and they charge them up and then
they do a laser pulse with all this

926
01:09:32.800 --> 01:09:38.000
power on it, and then immediately
they start charging up the capacitors again so

927
01:09:38.119 --> 01:09:41.439
they can throw another laser pulse out. So it's it's gotten to the point

928
01:09:41.479 --> 01:09:43.720
where they can just they have a
little ball on the front of the plane

929
01:09:44.199 --> 01:09:45.960
with a with a mirror in it
and they can point it, you know,

930
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:49.680
three hundred Well not right at the
plane obviously, but uh, it

931
01:09:49.760 --> 01:09:54.720
has a great arc, and so
they can actually track a missile or something

932
01:09:54.800 --> 01:09:58.600
like that and actually damage it enough
to destroy it. So they basically have

933
01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:01.960
they have death rays. Amazing.
Finally, Tesla would be proud. Um,

934
01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:04.640
we have another caller on the line. Caller, where are you calling

935
01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:10.800
from? And your first name?
Please? Hey Martin? Um, Hi

936
01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:13.439
Greg? Can you hear me?
Okay, yeah, yeah, you can

937
01:10:13.520 --> 01:10:16.800
speak up a little though, Okay. Good. Um. So I'm Jay

938
01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:21.600
Allen from San Diego at the moment, Welcome to the show. Do you

939
01:10:21.680 --> 01:10:25.560
have a question for our guests?
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, so

940
01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:28.560
I was gonna I'm gonna sort of
call in and tell you a story.

941
01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:32.800
Also, um as a trained observer, if that's the cay um, because

942
01:10:33.159 --> 01:10:36.000
that seems to be sort of a
key word, and every time I hear

943
01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:39.600
it, I'm like, man,
there are so many trained observers out there

944
01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:44.439
that a lot of us, uh, you know, the position that I

945
01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:50.479
was in. It made it impossible
to actually file a report or do anything

946
01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:54.680
about it. But I can tell
you, I can tell you a story.

947
01:10:54.880 --> 01:10:57.079
It's just can't it just can't be
official, you know what I mean?

948
01:10:57.159 --> 01:11:00.720
So, um yeah, just real
quick, not to brag, but

949
01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:05.119
I'm just going to tell you a
little bit of my bio. I'm a

950
01:11:05.439 --> 01:11:09.279
military veteran. I was in the
Air Force. I went to air traffic

951
01:11:09.279 --> 01:11:15.720
control school, went to flight school, became an aerospace engineer. I have

952
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:18.880
twenty two years in aerospace at this
point and I'm still in it today,

953
01:11:19.039 --> 01:11:29.399
active, and I can tell you
that I work on the tip top of

954
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:31.640
the iceberg of the technology that we
know about today. I mean, we

955
01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:35.439
work on darker programs, the highest
level stuff that we know. If it's

956
01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:41.800
out there before I I don't know
if everybody's heard of lockeed S gun courts,

957
01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:47.119
but Boeing also has a Boeing also
has a division called Dantam Works,

958
01:11:47.479 --> 01:11:51.880
and that's why I work. It's
basically it's basically the classified, you know,

959
01:11:53.239 --> 01:11:56.760
R and D programs out there.
But I happen to be out in

960
01:11:57.880 --> 01:12:02.800
oddly enough, Nevada Test Range and
we were at Creech Air Force Base.

961
01:12:03.359 --> 01:12:09.359
It was about probably about four years
ago when this happened. And I don't

962
01:12:09.399 --> 01:12:12.479
know if you guys know, but
Creeches in Indian Springs, Nevada, and

963
01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:16.399
it's just on the other side of
the mountain from Area fifty one, and

964
01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:19.359
we were doing some night operations there. I'm not going to tell you what

965
01:12:19.439 --> 01:12:23.960
we were doing, but we were
doing to night operations there with about eight

966
01:12:24.039 --> 01:12:29.760
other military personnel and we happened to
step outside of our skiff and there are

967
01:12:29.880 --> 01:12:35.720
these just super bright orbs. I
think we were just talking about orbs,

968
01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:42.119
but there were super bright orbs outside, so bright that we thought that they

969
01:12:42.159 --> 01:12:47.640
were helicopters, literally sitting a spotlight
directly at us. But there was no

970
01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:51.680
you know, there was no circle
on the ground where the spotlight would hit.

971
01:12:51.720 --> 01:12:56.920
It was just you know, that's
that's that was our first impression because

972
01:12:56.920 --> 01:13:00.840
we're in military airspace, and then
we life that, guess what, it's

973
01:13:00.920 --> 01:13:05.159
midnight. There's no flight operations allowed
after ten pm because the civilians are around

974
01:13:05.880 --> 01:13:12.800
and noise ordinance, so we've got
to assume that, you know, if

975
01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:15.720
it's if it's a flight operation,
then it's unauthorized, or if it's or

976
01:13:15.760 --> 01:13:19.239
at special ops. But there is
zero sound. I don't know if you've

977
01:13:19.279 --> 01:13:24.960
been in the desert at midnight when
there's no flight operations and no traffic,

978
01:13:25.159 --> 01:13:28.119
you can hear. You can hear
miles and miles away. You can hear

979
01:13:28.119 --> 01:13:35.399
a cricket eight miles away probably,
But these we thought they were helicopters until

980
01:13:35.479 --> 01:13:40.880
they started rotating and doing these maneuvers. They're literally hovering, but there was

981
01:13:40.960 --> 01:13:45.239
no sound. They were just the
brightest thing we've ever seen. And they

982
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:48.680
started rotating around each other, which
which is how we knew it was impossible

983
01:13:48.680 --> 01:13:54.279
to be a helicopter because you have
this thing called ground effect and rotor wash.

984
01:13:54.560 --> 01:13:57.279
So if you have a helicopter go
on top of another helicopter, just

985
01:13:57.399 --> 01:14:01.079
not get right out of the sky. And I have no idea why they

986
01:14:01.079 --> 01:14:05.479
would be circling around each other,
these orbs, but they were, and

987
01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:13.000
it was right in front of us, and it could so they were hovering

988
01:14:13.119 --> 01:14:16.840
with no sound. Anything halvering is
going to be a helicopter. And but

989
01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:21.439
at the same time, we know
for sure from helicopter flight dynamics that it's

990
01:14:21.479 --> 01:14:27.000
impossible for them to do that without
destroying each other. So had to have

991
01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:31.840
been something else, especially with there
being zero sound about it. And you

992
01:14:31.920 --> 01:14:36.520
know, my point was not just
to tell the story about to say there's

993
01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:42.960
a lot of trained observers out there, and yet perception is definitely the skeptical

994
01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:48.039
argument is hugely valuable, and we
have to consider perception within all the people

995
01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:50.479
who were telling stories. You know, one person saw this, and then

996
01:14:50.520 --> 01:14:54.960
the person saw this. Yeah,
that's that's all totally true also, but

997
01:14:55.680 --> 01:15:00.880
eventually we have to reach a threshold
where we have enough trained observers telling a

998
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:05.479
similar story where we have to really
consider that there's something going on and it's

999
01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:16.600
not perceptual misidentification, it's not displacement
or sublimation. There really is something out

1000
01:15:16.640 --> 01:15:20.399
there that even even trained observers can't
explain. I'm not trying to say what

1001
01:15:20.479 --> 01:15:24.720
it was, I'm just going to
say that I work in the highest level

1002
01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:28.880
of technology that I'm aware of.
I mean and a classified and I still

1003
01:15:28.960 --> 01:15:38.079
have clearances, and there's something out
there that we're not aware of in our

1004
01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:44.840
program that could be true, but
I mean, based on the flight dynamics

1005
01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:47.800
of these things, I just can't
imagine what it could be. Um.

1006
01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:51.000
I'm just saying that there's got to
be a threshold where enough people like be

1007
01:15:51.159 --> 01:15:55.680
come out and we have to admit, yeah, we need more investigation,

1008
01:15:55.760 --> 01:15:59.960
and we should, we should,
and some instances move away from the perception

1009
01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:05.399
actual accountability and go into you know, more investigation. But yeah, well,

1010
01:16:05.520 --> 01:16:09.359
the point is that there's been thank
you so much, there's been a

1011
01:16:09.439 --> 01:16:13.520
lot of investigation. I think the
investigation has to be taken over by people

1012
01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:18.319
who are more professionally trained. And
I'm sorry if I gave the impression that

1013
01:16:18.439 --> 01:16:23.720
people don't see what they're seeing.
I think there's something very strange going on

1014
01:16:23.880 --> 01:16:26.760
in the skies, has been going
on for many years, and that many

1015
01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:31.000
people see them. The problem is
that it's really hard for us to categorize

1016
01:16:31.039 --> 01:16:34.840
what's going on. However, there
are steps being taken, like, you

1017
01:16:34.880 --> 01:16:39.239
know, let's take a video of
what's going on and see what colors are

1018
01:16:39.560 --> 01:16:43.000
being omitted by these things. What
does that tell us about their flight,

1019
01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:45.520
about their dynamics, and how they
might be doing what they're doing. This

1020
01:16:45.960 --> 01:16:48.840
stuff is very important, and I
think at this point in a lot of

1021
01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:53.399
ways, it should be taken out
of the hands of people who are hobbyists

1022
01:16:53.439 --> 01:16:57.199
and into the hands of people that
are more professional, have the equipment,

1023
01:16:57.399 --> 01:17:00.520
have the training, and all that
to start looking at this in a different

1024
01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:04.159
way. Yeah, excellency, all
right, well, thank you for the

1025
01:17:04.239 --> 01:17:09.000
call. Thank you, you're welcome. Thanks guys, all right, huh,

1026
01:17:09.760 --> 01:17:13.039
all right, So if anyone else
wants to call in, um,

1027
01:17:13.279 --> 01:17:17.960
please give a question to the guests. We do like hearing stories and occasionally

1028
01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:23.439
there will be a time where the
guest has to leave earlier something like that,

1029
01:17:23.600 --> 01:17:27.239
and would love to hear your story. No problem at all. But

1030
01:17:27.359 --> 01:17:30.039
for right now, anyone that wants
to call in the number, please call

1031
01:17:30.159 --> 01:17:35.880
in for a question for our guests. Speaking of that, another question that

1032
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:41.680
came up here. Have you had
a change of opinion on this subject from

1033
01:17:41.720 --> 01:17:45.000
when you first started writing about it
too up to present day? Who hasn't,

1034
01:17:45.079 --> 01:17:48.079
right? Yeah? Yeah, I
think everybody has. At first,

1035
01:17:49.760 --> 01:17:53.479
I think there was a lot of
people It's like, well, it's it's

1036
01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:57.840
aliens coming from other planets, in
structured crap. Now I'm not so sure

1037
01:17:57.880 --> 01:18:02.960
about that. It just that explanation
does not explain all the stuff we've been

1038
01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:09.520
talking about here, the weirdness,
the repetition, um, all kinds of

1039
01:18:09.720 --> 01:18:14.159
you know, why is it happening
so much? Um? Is it because

1040
01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:16.000
we've got a different perception of time
than they do. We just think it's

1041
01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:18.880
happening all the time. They've only
seen us twice. I have no idea,

1042
01:18:19.520 --> 01:18:25.079
but um, I'm convinced that whatever
is doing this, it's not us.

1043
01:18:26.199 --> 01:18:30.600
It's something else with with a with
a with a thinking consciousness and being

1044
01:18:30.640 --> 01:18:34.439
able to reason and perceive things.
Um. Other than that, I'm not

1045
01:18:34.520 --> 01:18:36.840
sure. Oh we got a call
her? We haven't. Oh you saw

1046
01:18:36.880 --> 01:18:40.439
it this time? Yes, I
call it your first name? Where you're

1047
01:18:40.439 --> 01:18:45.000
calling from? That's Bobby. Oh
Bobby, I've met Bobby up. I

1048
01:18:45.039 --> 01:18:47.680
don't know. We're going about five
years ago now, Yeah, in North

1049
01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:53.600
Carolina. He's a I've been listening
to the show before and ever since.

1050
01:18:54.479 --> 01:18:57.800
UM, long time listener. So, Bobby, how you doing? You

1051
01:18:57.880 --> 01:19:00.479
have a question for Greg. I
know you like Greg, You've you've mentioned

1052
01:19:00.520 --> 01:19:03.079
that before. Yeah, I'm doing
great. Then Greg was great. And

1053
01:19:03.520 --> 01:19:06.119
it's snowed today, first day of
spring and we got snow, so I

1054
01:19:06.119 --> 01:19:10.119
don't want to hear you bitching about
your fourteen feet of snow that you get.

1055
01:19:11.279 --> 01:19:15.000
But it's been raining all day here, but that's California. Yeah,

1056
01:19:15.119 --> 01:19:18.439
yeah, well it's funny it's melted. Before I looked forward, I had

1057
01:19:18.479 --> 01:19:24.239
a question for Greg. Sure.
Well, first of all, I heard

1058
01:19:24.239 --> 01:19:29.399
that the two stars Blink one eighty
two Academy got two more videos recently,

1059
01:19:29.600 --> 01:19:32.800
but they hadn't released them yet,
and I think I've read somewhere that he

1060
01:19:32.960 --> 01:19:38.359
was kind of dubious about the whole
release of the videos. I wanted his

1061
01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:43.800
thoughts on that. And the other
thing was like the just not too long

1062
01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:46.960
ago last fall, some pictures were
released allegedly by some guy who's out an

1063
01:19:46.960 --> 01:19:51.119
area in fifty one and got pictures
of a UFO that looked really clear with

1064
01:19:51.199 --> 01:19:57.359
the helicopter the background that was actually
analyzed by Bruce mccabee. And there's like

1065
01:19:57.760 --> 01:20:00.600
different people are saying different things about
it. Some people think and it's legit,

1066
01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:01.399
and then other people are like,
well, it's too good to be

1067
01:20:01.520 --> 01:20:04.640
true. It's it's just it's a
paradox. You know, if you get

1068
01:20:04.680 --> 01:20:09.119
a really good, clear picture of
something, well it's fake. And if

1069
01:20:09.159 --> 01:20:11.319
you get a blurry picture, then
it's just a light in the sky.

1070
01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:15.600
So that's that's what I had to
say about that. Yeah, we sort

1071
01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:20.000
of discussed earlier about to the Stars, but I don't know if there's anything

1072
01:20:20.039 --> 01:20:25.399
else you want to add to what
you've talked about before, Greg, Yeah,

1073
01:20:26.159 --> 01:20:30.199
I think with the regards to video
and pictures, I think we've got

1074
01:20:30.359 --> 01:20:34.279
enough video and pictures at this point
that we know that there's that people occasionally

1075
01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:39.920
take pictures and video of things and
film of things that are unexplained and are

1076
01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:43.600
truly unexplained that I don't think there's
any question about that. I think what

1077
01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:46.199
the what to the Stars is trying
to do is saying, look, this

1078
01:20:46.439 --> 01:20:53.680
came from the military. It's unexplained, and we have to you know,

1079
01:20:53.760 --> 01:20:58.119
we're trying to force the authorities to
acknowledge that there's unexplained things in the sky,

1080
01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:00.439
which they never really have for I
mean, I think that's part of

1081
01:21:00.479 --> 01:21:05.319
their goal, and I think it's
a great goal that I think the videos

1082
01:21:05.359 --> 01:21:10.039
are are singularly unimpressive to me.
It's it's like, well, there's dots

1083
01:21:10.079 --> 01:21:15.920
in the sky doing stuff and they're
traveling at strange speeds. But the thing

1084
01:21:15.039 --> 01:21:18.199
is, if you're into UFOs,
or actually most of the public, they

1085
01:21:18.239 --> 01:21:23.079
already know of that stuff happens.
I think that's what this is aimed at,

1086
01:21:23.600 --> 01:21:26.760
is the media and academia and science
and all that, and how they

1087
01:21:26.800 --> 01:21:30.800
should probably take this a little more
seriously. So with that part of their

1088
01:21:30.199 --> 01:21:34.880
propaganda machine, I totally agree with
them. What I don't know is,

1089
01:21:36.359 --> 01:21:40.319
besides that, why they're doing it. I think they're trying to get something

1090
01:21:40.399 --> 01:21:44.119
out of the technology, figure out
what this technology is and exploit it in

1091
01:21:44.239 --> 01:21:49.399
some way. That is great as
long as it's open and everybody is everybody

1092
01:21:49.439 --> 01:21:53.359
has access to the information. But
I don't think that's I don't think that's

1093
01:21:53.399 --> 01:21:56.680
their idea. It's part of I
think they're trying to throw a wide net

1094
01:21:56.760 --> 01:22:00.199
and find out if how much people
know about this ari you know, the

1095
01:22:00.520 --> 01:22:03.720
alloys or whatever you want to call
them, and how these can be used

1096
01:22:04.199 --> 01:22:13.039
to further our understanding of physics and
and flight, and that they don't really

1097
01:22:13.119 --> 01:22:16.159
care if it's aliens or coming from
another planet or anything like that. All

1098
01:22:16.239 --> 01:22:20.960
they care about is how do these
things work? And how can we how

1099
01:22:21.039 --> 01:22:26.399
can we use what we see to
reproduce some of these uh, some of

1100
01:22:26.439 --> 01:22:32.800
these characteristics. Do you know anything
else more about the meta materials that allegedly

1101
01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:39.079
or held in some warehouse by Bigelow? No, I'm not. I did.

1102
01:22:39.159 --> 01:22:44.239
I'm not privy to it. I
did how putoff was on Coast to

1103
01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:46.960
Coast a few weeks ago with George
Knapp. I happened to be listening because

1104
01:22:46.960 --> 01:22:50.119
I was working that night, so
I was listening, um, and he

1105
01:22:50.239 --> 01:22:54.399
actually said something. He said,
well, it's not really alloys. It's

1106
01:22:54.439 --> 01:23:00.840
a bunch of different materials layered in
such a way that it is impossible with

1107
01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:04.119
our technology right now to do.
That's what he says. This material is.

1108
01:23:04.279 --> 01:23:08.079
Well, other people say it's alloys
composed of things that you know are

1109
01:23:08.159 --> 01:23:11.760
not. Um. The isotopes aren't
the same or not in the same ratios

1110
01:23:11.800 --> 01:23:17.319
that they are in any manufacturing uh
process we have here on earth. Um.

1111
01:23:18.479 --> 01:23:23.119
His idea was that it was some
sort of layered material like layer upon

1112
01:23:23.239 --> 01:23:27.439
layer upon layer put together in a
way that wasn't you know it bonded like

1113
01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:31.119
atomically or something, and that was
that's what was interesting to them, And

1114
01:23:31.239 --> 01:23:33.199
I don't The other thing is,
I don't know if they ever going to

1115
01:23:33.319 --> 01:23:38.439
let that stuff out, you know, for for for open Uh. That's

1116
01:23:38.439 --> 01:23:41.439
one thing that worries me. Why
isn't that stuff openly let out so that

1117
01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:46.640
uh um a you know, somebody
that a public institution or research facility can

1118
01:23:46.640 --> 01:23:48.760
take a look at that. They're
not letting that stuff out. That that

1119
01:23:48.880 --> 01:23:53.279
kind of bothers me. Well,
in that part alone, I think Bigelow

1120
01:23:53.479 --> 01:23:59.640
is involved, and he's always been
pretty cautious about revealing things, for instance,

1121
01:23:59.680 --> 01:24:01.439
skin Walker Ranch, you know,
anything he's been involved with, he

1122
01:24:01.560 --> 01:24:04.840
kind of wants to keep, you
know, a close a close hold on.

1123
01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:09.119
I don't know. Um, I
do think that if there's something to

1124
01:24:09.239 --> 01:24:14.119
release and it's important, you know, I mean if the he paid for

1125
01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:15.359
it, Yeah, he paid for
it, and it's his right. I

1126
01:24:15.479 --> 01:24:18.760
just we don't have to agree with
him. Yeah, I think this stuff

1127
01:24:18.760 --> 01:24:23.520
should be made public, but um, all you can do is say,

1128
01:24:23.560 --> 01:24:26.439
well, that's not fair. Well, it kind of is because he paid

1129
01:24:26.520 --> 01:24:30.079
for it. Well, actually,
this I'm not sure if he actually did

1130
01:24:30.279 --> 01:24:32.600
or if this was actually part of
the twenty two million that was spent.

1131
01:24:32.920 --> 01:24:36.680
Yeah, you know, from the
he's probably spent an equal amount or more

1132
01:24:36.920 --> 01:24:42.079
than that twenty two million that was
given to him. Who knows. Yeah,

1133
01:24:42.159 --> 01:24:45.359
but that's that's another thing. If
some of this was there's another argument

1134
01:24:45.399 --> 01:24:47.159
I've heard from people. This is
public money, it should be public knowledge.

1135
01:24:48.399 --> 01:24:51.960
And I don't want to keep going, but I wanted to touch off

1136
01:24:53.000 --> 01:24:55.600
on some of those just thinking about
a few years ago. I actually saw

1137
01:24:55.600 --> 01:24:59.920
a video on YouTube and it was
a Scout Works spokesman of some time,

1138
01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:04.720
and he was literally saying on YouTube
that they were this close to have infusion

1139
01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:11.199
power, which means you could have
a compact power source with crazy amounts of

1140
01:25:11.319 --> 01:25:15.840
energy which you would use for something
like lasers in the sky to shoot down

1141
01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:19.600
missiles and other stuff that I found
it really interesting, and the guy looked

1142
01:25:19.640 --> 01:25:21.840
really nervous in the video. But
I don't know if it's still on YouTube,

1143
01:25:23.239 --> 01:25:26.119
but he was a scunt Works guy
and he was actually literally saying that

1144
01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:30.199
they would have refrigerator sized fusion machines
soon, and it was just odd.

1145
01:25:31.920 --> 01:25:35.520
Yeah. Well, also, either
either he's revealing something which he shouldn't reveal,

1146
01:25:35.800 --> 01:25:39.880
or he's revealing it because somebody said, let's just put this out there

1147
01:25:40.199 --> 01:25:44.720
and see what happens for some reason
or another, to see what the reaction

1148
01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:47.039
is, or you know, see
who starts talking about it or whatever.

1149
01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:50.840
Yeah, I think they're fairly close
to fusion. They say ten years.

1150
01:25:51.039 --> 01:25:55.640
They've been satans for a while,
but ten years away from a working system.

1151
01:25:56.079 --> 01:26:00.720
But it's not portable. I mean
their ideas that it's it's got to

1152
01:26:00.760 --> 01:26:05.279
be housed in this giant thing,
that electromagnetic field that holds the plasma and

1153
01:26:05.760 --> 01:26:09.399
suspended in the air so it doesn't
touch anything because it's you know, eight

1154
01:26:09.439 --> 01:26:14.159
gazillion degrees um. I don't know
if they've been able to miniaturize that yet

1155
01:26:14.199 --> 01:26:15.680
to the point where they could carry
it and you know, use it as

1156
01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:18.640
a power source. Something. Sound
like it would be small. He made

1157
01:26:18.680 --> 01:26:24.199
it sound like you could have him
every ten blocks in a neighborhood. Yeah,

1158
01:26:24.239 --> 01:26:25.880
well, we have to take it
under it we'd have to take it

1159
01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:30.119
under advisement because the guy there's no
there's no supporting evidence for that. So

1160
01:26:30.239 --> 01:26:32.560
it's just kind of like, well, that's an interesting piece of information.

1161
01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:35.920
Let's stick it in our pocket and
see what comes up later. Yeah,

1162
01:26:36.439 --> 01:26:39.840
okay, guys, thank you a
great show, all right. I know,

1163
01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:44.199
thanks Bobby. I know you didn't
really answer the question he had also

1164
01:26:44.319 --> 01:26:45.920
on that Did you happen to see
the sighting he was talking about with the

1165
01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:50.560
helicopter very clear image. I'm not
familiar with that. No, I haven't

1166
01:26:50.600 --> 01:26:58.039
seen it up. Go ahead.
Somebody came out that it was somewhere and

1167
01:26:58.279 --> 01:27:00.439
ended up near Area fifty one,
and I think he was working there and

1168
01:27:00.479 --> 01:27:05.840
actually took pictures. I believe it's
on Open Minds. But the picture of

1169
01:27:05.880 --> 01:27:10.520
a UFO it's silver and black with
the helicopter in the background. You can't

1170
01:27:10.560 --> 01:27:14.119
trust anything on that site. Yeah, I know. I can't believe you

1171
01:27:14.199 --> 01:27:19.199
hang out with that guy. I
don't know what he's doing. Yeah.

1172
01:27:19.319 --> 01:27:24.720
For people listening to this show and
people that are into this, I think

1173
01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:28.039
they already assume that the stuff goes
on and they don't need more pictures.

1174
01:27:29.359 --> 01:27:32.640
It's already been proven to me.
You everybody listening to this show practically that

1175
01:27:32.680 --> 01:27:36.960
there is something strange flying through the
sky, and no matter how many times

1176
01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:40.680
you show it to your skeptical friends, it's not going to make any difference

1177
01:27:40.720 --> 01:27:44.840
to them, which is why usually
photos don't interest me. Photos and video

1178
01:27:44.880 --> 01:27:47.079
don't interest me. What interests me
more right now is where is the stuff

1179
01:27:47.159 --> 01:27:51.319
coming from? Why are people reporting
it? What causes a UFO report,

1180
01:27:51.800 --> 01:27:59.199
What stimulus causes a UFO report.
Anything from a hallucination to aliens coming from

1181
01:27:59.239 --> 01:28:01.560
other planets. It's a lot and
other things we haven't even thought of.

1182
01:28:01.640 --> 01:28:04.880
It's all along that spectrum, I
think, and nothing should be thrown out.

1183
01:28:04.960 --> 01:28:10.119
People seem to think that I'm against
the et hypothesis. I'm not.

1184
01:28:10.840 --> 01:28:13.920
It's just it's not as interesting to
me as some of the other ideas.

1185
01:28:14.520 --> 01:28:18.159
Yeah, I've got a bunch of
good stories on Martin's blog on his website

1186
01:28:18.239 --> 01:28:21.159
there. Actually he's got a new
blog there where actually you can just report

1187
01:28:21.199 --> 01:28:25.640
a UFO. So I've got several
of mine in there. If you're said,

1188
01:28:25.680 --> 01:28:28.920
there's some some interesting stuff. And
thanks again, good night, all

1189
01:28:28.960 --> 01:28:33.920
right, good night, yeah,
thanks. Yeah. Well, let's see,

1190
01:28:33.920 --> 01:28:36.279
I just wanted to get and make
sure I got to all these questions

1191
01:28:36.399 --> 01:28:40.560
from this one gentleman. Do you
think our brains are locked, so to

1192
01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:45.039
speak, so that we don't have
perception of paranormal entities? But some unique

1193
01:28:45.079 --> 01:28:50.119
individuals have this gift and are able
to. Yeah, definitely, I think

1194
01:28:51.159 --> 01:28:55.560
I look at it in a way. I was talking here's Dean Raydon again.

1195
01:28:55.600 --> 01:28:58.560
I was talking to him about what
he says. Everybody's psychic, just

1196
01:28:58.720 --> 01:29:00.399
some of them. Some of us
aren't very good at it. Um.

1197
01:29:00.560 --> 01:29:03.880
So I think everybody has this perception
to be able to see these weird things,

1198
01:29:04.039 --> 01:29:06.760
just some of them are better than
others. Some people have a better

1199
01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:12.760
natural talent through whatever, through genetics
or where they grew up or whatever the

1200
01:29:12.880 --> 01:29:15.920
hell, or maybe some a finger
came down from the heavens and touched them

1201
01:29:15.960 --> 01:29:19.920
and said you're the person that can
see these things. I'm not sure,

1202
01:29:20.319 --> 01:29:25.039
but you know, what did he
What did you say? So there are

1203
01:29:25.159 --> 01:29:29.439
there are only a few psychic Michael
Jordan's and I think there's there's tendencs.

1204
01:29:29.520 --> 01:29:32.720
Yeah, there's there's tendencies in the
in the in the population for some people

1205
01:29:32.760 --> 01:29:39.800
to see things that others cannot.
And the people that do see things and

1206
01:29:40.119 --> 01:29:44.520
experience things have a really hard time
explaining it to people that don't see them

1207
01:29:44.560 --> 01:29:47.319
and don't experience them. And you
know it's like the people will say,

1208
01:29:47.359 --> 01:29:49.520
well, I didn't see that,
so it doesn't exist. Well, that's

1209
01:29:49.560 --> 01:29:54.159
not fair because you're not that person
that experienced that thing. You have to

1210
01:29:54.319 --> 01:29:56.880
you know, sure, there's a
lot of people that make things up or

1211
01:29:56.920 --> 01:30:00.720
embellish or whatever, but you can't
deny that people see and experience strange things.

1212
01:30:01.199 --> 01:30:05.000
And sometimes people are okay with it
and sometimes they're not. And if

1213
01:30:05.039 --> 01:30:09.720
they're not okay with it, it's
kind of the researchers job to let them

1214
01:30:09.880 --> 01:30:13.079
unload about what they've seen and what
they feel about it, just so they

1215
01:30:13.119 --> 01:30:15.880
can sort of integrate it into their
into their worldview, if you know what

1216
01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:21.039
I mean. Greg, you're talking
about video a minute ago. You don't

1217
01:30:21.039 --> 01:30:25.920
really care to look at video or
pictures. I think it may have been

1218
01:30:26.000 --> 01:30:30.880
on your show. Did I hear
you talk about some type of new editing

1219
01:30:30.800 --> 01:30:35.720
software that allows you to like bring
I like, anybody can do it and

1220
01:30:36.640 --> 01:30:41.720
you don't have to be like an
Adobe Photoshop or anything like that. You

1221
01:30:41.760 --> 01:30:45.600
can just pull a picture in or
pull a video into another video something like

1222
01:30:45.680 --> 01:30:47.319
that. Yeah. Yeah, I
don't know if it was me, but

1223
01:30:47.439 --> 01:30:50.159
yeah, I know about that.
It's it's a software you can get for

1224
01:30:50.199 --> 01:30:55.119
free online. It's I think it's
either called deep fake or it's the it's

1225
01:30:55.159 --> 01:30:59.800
the way the videos made are called
deep fakes, So you can put anybody's

1226
01:30:59.840 --> 01:31:03.159
face on anybody and make them say
or do whatever that's something they never did.

1227
01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:08.920
Um to varying degrees of success.
I think if you have enough video

1228
01:31:09.119 --> 01:31:13.159
of the person's face and you can
and different angles, you can put it

1229
01:31:13.239 --> 01:31:16.520
on anything you want. UM.
And the same thing with the uh,

1230
01:31:16.880 --> 01:31:20.520
you know, making UFO videos.
Um, I think people are able to

1231
01:31:20.600 --> 01:31:24.439
do that. Yes, it's it's
it's getting harder and hard to find out

1232
01:31:24.479 --> 01:31:28.840
if somebody has faked stuff. But
UM, like I said, it's I

1233
01:31:28.880 --> 01:31:34.800
don't know why we need more video
and film proof of of things flying in

1234
01:31:34.840 --> 01:31:39.800
the skies that are unidentified. We
know that happens. Um. I think

1235
01:31:39.880 --> 01:31:44.079
what it is is one part of
it is it's what I call ufo porno.

1236
01:31:44.159 --> 01:31:46.760
People just like seeing you know,
weird, weird videos of stuff.

1237
01:31:47.000 --> 01:31:50.640
And two I think some of them
think if I can just show this to

1238
01:31:50.800 --> 01:31:55.439
somebody who's skeptical, they're going to
believe it doesn't work. It's it's not

1239
01:31:55.479 --> 01:32:00.359
going to work if somebody's dead set
against UM considering these things, no matter

1240
01:32:00.399 --> 01:32:02.720
how much video or pictures you show
them, it's not gonna, it's gonna.

1241
01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:05.119
It's not going to convince them.
It's you just run up against a

1242
01:32:05.800 --> 01:32:12.279
basically an anti belief system or a
different kind of belief system. So I've

1243
01:32:12.399 --> 01:32:16.119
retreated sort of too. How can
I answer some of these questions or increase

1244
01:32:16.199 --> 01:32:19.119
my understanding for myself, my friends, people that I know, and people

1245
01:32:19.159 --> 01:32:24.720
that listen to my show. I'm
not out to prove anything. If you

1246
01:32:24.840 --> 01:32:30.560
were like to say, if you
had in mind to talk to someone and

1247
01:32:30.960 --> 01:32:33.680
you did, you did want to
give a good convincing argument, how would

1248
01:32:33.720 --> 01:32:38.399
you do that? I know you
said you wouldn't do it, but how

1249
01:32:38.640 --> 01:32:43.520
would you do that today? Would
you say you know a witness or would

1250
01:32:43.560 --> 01:32:46.319
you talk about a witness if you
didn't want to convince someone by a video?

1251
01:32:47.000 --> 01:32:50.399
Say, I mean, if I
wanted to convince somebody, I would

1252
01:32:50.399 --> 01:32:54.600
say, I cannot convince you of
anything that you do not want to be

1253
01:32:54.680 --> 01:32:59.239
convinced of. If you truly want
to know, and you're truly open minded

1254
01:32:59.279 --> 01:33:01.920
about it, I'm sorry. It's
going to take work, reading things,

1255
01:33:02.079 --> 01:33:09.039
talking to people, getting the information
yourself. Because I can tell somebody read

1256
01:33:09.119 --> 01:33:12.239
this book and your your life will
be changed. It might have changed my

1257
01:33:12.359 --> 01:33:15.960
life, it won't change theirs.
Choose your own path to your own understanding.

1258
01:33:16.079 --> 01:33:21.000
You know, if you've got to
truly um, what's the word,

1259
01:33:21.000 --> 01:33:26.079
If you truly want to find out
what's going on, walk into it with

1260
01:33:26.159 --> 01:33:31.199
an open mind and find things that
speak to you. I think that's the

1261
01:33:31.239 --> 01:33:34.039
only advice I can give to somebody. I can't sit here in a debate

1262
01:33:34.119 --> 01:33:38.680
with somebody and convince them that the
of my point of view, it is

1263
01:33:38.840 --> 01:33:42.600
not going to work. But if
they can find out things for themselves with

1264
01:33:42.720 --> 01:33:45.279
their own means, which is really
easy, now you can do that.

1265
01:33:45.319 --> 01:33:49.279
In fact, it almost it's almost
too easy, then that's the path you

1266
01:33:49.319 --> 01:33:53.720
should take. And don't believe everything, and I actually don't believe anything.

1267
01:33:53.800 --> 01:33:58.039
Keep an open mind the entire through
the entire journey, don't don't throw things

1268
01:33:58.119 --> 01:34:00.960
out willy nilly, and don't accept
things completely. And if somebody tells you

1269
01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:04.680
they have the answer, run the
other way really fast. Exactly. Yeah,

1270
01:34:04.680 --> 01:34:08.199
I've said that a number I've said
that a number of times. Have

1271
01:34:08.319 --> 01:34:12.039
you ever done any like boots on
the ground type of investigation yourself or you

1272
01:34:12.239 --> 01:34:16.640
just kind of just write about it
and do like outside work like I do.

1273
01:34:19.199 --> 01:34:23.279
I used to talk to people,
but I've never been somebody that goes

1274
01:34:23.359 --> 01:34:26.239
out and says, look, I'm
going to go out an interview UFO witnesses.

1275
01:34:26.680 --> 01:34:30.199
It's just it's not something I'm interested
in. The funny thing is,

1276
01:34:30.279 --> 01:34:33.000
if you do what you do or
I do, or anybody involved with the

1277
01:34:33.079 --> 01:34:36.680
subject that has sort of a has
done more than just consume, people will

1278
01:34:36.680 --> 01:34:42.239
come up to you and start telling
you things. Yeah, and that's fascinating

1279
01:34:42.319 --> 01:34:45.680
to me. And also, and
I've said this before too, I've been

1280
01:34:45.720 --> 01:34:48.119
sitting there signing books or whatever at
conferences and somebody will come up and say,

1281
01:34:48.520 --> 01:34:51.000
this thing happened to me, and
they'll tell me the story, and

1282
01:34:51.119 --> 01:34:54.800
I listen. I know if they
want me to say something, I say,

1283
01:34:54.840 --> 01:34:57.279
fine, how did that make you
feel? What happened? Later?

1284
01:34:58.279 --> 01:35:01.319
Is there anything else that you want
to talk about? Or the majority of

1285
01:35:01.319 --> 01:35:03.560
the time, people just want to
tell me the story and they say thank

1286
01:35:03.600 --> 01:35:08.760
you when they leave, because they
just want to tell somebody that isn't going

1287
01:35:08.840 --> 01:35:12.479
to tell them they are crazy or
ask some stupid questions or say, oh

1288
01:35:12.520 --> 01:35:15.159
my god, that's exactly what happened
to me too. And you know,

1289
01:35:15.279 --> 01:35:18.000
don't you know, it's the Pleiadians
or whatever. They just want somebody to

1290
01:35:18.079 --> 01:35:26.640
acknowledge something strange happened to them.
And I think that the best investigators are

1291
01:35:26.760 --> 01:35:30.239
like that. They say, look, I'm fulfilling a service just by letting

1292
01:35:30.279 --> 01:35:35.920
people say get this off their chest. I had Mary Ellen guileon Preston Dennett

1293
01:35:35.960 --> 01:35:40.399
recently. I'm still editing those shows, but they both told me the same

1294
01:35:40.520 --> 01:35:44.119
thing. It's just like we part
of our job is to let people get

1295
01:35:44.199 --> 01:35:47.439
this stuff off their chest, because
sometimes it's just bothering them, and that

1296
01:35:47.680 --> 01:35:53.880
part of their part of integrating it
into their into their personality, in you're

1297
01:35:53.920 --> 01:35:57.399
ready to get into their life experience, is to be able to tell somebody

1298
01:35:57.439 --> 01:36:01.359
that's not gonna what interpret it for
them, or tell them they didn't see

1299
01:36:01.359 --> 01:36:05.920
it what they saw, or be
overly eager or whatever. They just want

1300
01:36:05.960 --> 01:36:11.279
to get it out. And I
think that as far as I can do

1301
01:36:11.439 --> 01:36:14.920
that, I think I think that's
useful. And there's plenty of people doing

1302
01:36:16.319 --> 01:36:20.399
boots on the ground type of investigation
I don't like. I don't think that's

1303
01:36:20.439 --> 01:36:26.079
the only type of investigation that can
be done us. As you know,

1304
01:36:26.159 --> 01:36:29.199
if you're in the social sciences,
do you have to talk to somebody to

1305
01:36:29.239 --> 01:36:30.359
be in social sciences, so you
can look at or can you look at

1306
01:36:30.399 --> 01:36:33.119
the data. I think you can
do things like look at the data and

1307
01:36:33.960 --> 01:36:40.439
make reasonable theories and guesses from it
that can be applied in the real world

1308
01:36:40.520 --> 01:36:44.439
possibly. Um, So you know
that that's you know that. I think

1309
01:36:44.479 --> 01:36:46.319
that's my role, and that's also
a cheerleader. When I see somebody I

1310
01:36:46.399 --> 01:36:49.960
think is doing good work, I'll
have them on my show and I'll suggest

1311
01:36:50.039 --> 01:36:54.359
that they go on people's shows.
I'll suggest that Alejandra have them at the

1312
01:36:54.720 --> 01:36:58.920
at the UFO Congress if he listens, you know, and he'll listen to

1313
01:36:59.000 --> 01:37:01.359
me an other researcher. I think
that's important to him to get people in

1314
01:37:01.479 --> 01:37:08.359
there that are saying something different.
That's one thing about all Jundre and UFO

1315
01:37:08.479 --> 01:37:13.760
Congress. They will have Richard Dolan
and Linda Howe and Nick Pope and all

1316
01:37:13.800 --> 01:37:16.039
these people, but then they'll have
people that like my friend Robbie Graham,

1317
01:37:16.079 --> 01:37:19.560
who's not saying something everybody wants to
hear. And I think that's really right

1318
01:37:19.720 --> 01:37:24.720
brave of him to have these people
in here that are saying something different is

1319
01:37:24.840 --> 01:37:27.680
not the party line. I think
that's wonderful, and I think there should

1320
01:37:27.720 --> 01:37:30.199
be more of that. Yeah,
yeah, I agree, I agree.

1321
01:37:31.479 --> 01:37:35.039
Now, Juse, I just had
a question for you in my mind,

1322
01:37:35.079 --> 01:37:42.560
and now I just forgot it.
Has that ever happened to you constantly every

1323
01:37:42.680 --> 01:37:48.159
day any more than I want to
admit? Yeah? Yeah yeah. But

1324
01:37:49.479 --> 01:37:56.319
now as far as m have you
ever had have you ever like debated a

1325
01:37:56.399 --> 01:38:00.119
skeptic or had a skeptic on your
show? I've had a couple on my

1326
01:38:00.159 --> 01:38:05.039
show that made for interesting radio.
I think, No, I haven't,

1327
01:38:05.039 --> 01:38:08.760
and a couple of skeptical people have
gotten mad at me for not doing that.

1328
01:38:08.840 --> 01:38:12.239
I actually have one. John Shirley, the cyberpunk writer. I've had

1329
01:38:12.319 --> 01:38:14.399
him on my show. We had
a bit of a debate about things.

1330
01:38:15.079 --> 01:38:16.920
Um. But the thing is,
see, he's not doctrinaire, and he's

1331
01:38:16.960 --> 01:38:21.760
not he will actually debate with you, engage. Well, a lot of

1332
01:38:21.880 --> 01:38:27.479
skeptics will are. I call them
fundamentalist skeptics, meaning they're just they just

1333
01:38:27.600 --> 01:38:30.279
have their mind made up and they're
not. It's not an exchange of ideas

1334
01:38:31.159 --> 01:38:35.720
that he engaged with me. I
can't even remember what we talked about this

1335
01:38:35.840 --> 01:38:42.119
a couple of years ago. But
to have somebody on that truly is listening

1336
01:38:42.199 --> 01:38:46.000
to you, and there's an exchange
of information and there's a mutual respect.

1337
01:38:46.560 --> 01:38:49.640
Really really rare, which is why
I don't have I don't usually have him

1338
01:38:49.680 --> 01:38:55.800
on the show. Um. The
other thing is some of these people I

1339
01:38:55.920 --> 01:39:00.600
deal with, especially online, I
don't usually engage with them because if I

1340
01:39:00.720 --> 01:39:06.600
do it, they're not really listening, and I don't know if I'm meerly

1341
01:39:06.680 --> 01:39:14.640
listening. There's only a few people
that I think are open minded skeptical people

1342
01:39:14.920 --> 01:39:17.640
where they will they say, you
know, I need a lot more information

1343
01:39:17.800 --> 01:39:20.880
before I commit to this, but
I think I kind of I agree with

1344
01:39:20.960 --> 01:39:25.119
them. I don't commit to any
of this except for there's something strange going

1345
01:39:25.199 --> 01:39:29.840
on and that people see strange stuff. And I go one step further by

1346
01:39:29.920 --> 01:39:34.680
saying, I think it's due to
a business that is not ours and that

1347
01:39:34.960 --> 01:39:42.199
automatically shuts down probably ninety percent of
people who are skeptical in the in the

1348
01:39:42.319 --> 01:39:45.239
classic way that people think of,
not in the proper way that I think

1349
01:39:45.279 --> 01:39:48.560
is skeptical, which is to keep
an open mind and not make a conclusion.

1350
01:39:49.319 --> 01:39:55.119
But I've made a conclusion that there's
nothing going on, and you have

1351
01:39:55.239 --> 01:39:58.840
to convince me that there's something that
something is going on. I can't do

1352
01:39:59.039 --> 01:40:02.319
that. That's not my job.
And also I would like to learn.

1353
01:40:02.359 --> 01:40:04.840
I don't want to have people on
the show. I want to that,

1354
01:40:04.920 --> 01:40:08.680
I argue with I want to have
somebody on the show that it's telling me

1355
01:40:08.800 --> 01:40:13.000
something that I do not know,
that fascinates me, that pushes my understanding

1356
01:40:13.119 --> 01:40:15.960
further, and that's not a closed
minded thing. That's another thing people say

1357
01:40:16.359 --> 01:40:19.319
is well, then you're just you
know, listen, you're just preaching to

1358
01:40:19.399 --> 01:40:23.279
the choir or listening to people that
it is an echo chamber. No,

1359
01:40:23.479 --> 01:40:26.680
that's not it. You get to
a certain point where you say, look

1360
01:40:26.800 --> 01:40:31.159
my brain and my personality and my
knowledge, I trust that I'm not going

1361
01:40:31.199 --> 01:40:36.000
to go nuts or believe something that's
silly or that will lead me in the

1362
01:40:36.039 --> 01:40:41.560
wrong direction, and I'm willing to
listen. I don't take in every you

1363
01:40:41.600 --> 01:40:44.239
know, I don't accept everything,
but I listen to a lot of things.

1364
01:40:45.199 --> 01:40:47.000
So that's my basic philosophy. If
it makes sense, it does make

1365
01:40:47.079 --> 01:40:51.199
sense, Greg, So that's going
to be it. We're having up internet

1366
01:40:51.279 --> 01:40:55.960
issues again, so we're right near
the end of the show anyway, So

1367
01:40:56.159 --> 01:40:58.840
I want to thank you so much
for being on the show. It's always

1368
01:40:58.840 --> 01:41:02.159
a pleasure talking to you. Oh, definitely at any time. Martin,

1369
01:41:02.239 --> 01:41:05.560
thank you so much. Thanks to
the audience for the great questions, the

1370
01:41:05.680 --> 01:41:11.199
comments excellent. All Right, you
take care, thank you too. All

1371
01:41:11.239 --> 01:41:15.640
right, thanks all right, yeah, good night, y okay. So

1372
01:41:15.920 --> 01:41:21.640
that's it. So that's it for
the show with Greg. I want to

1373
01:41:21.800 --> 01:41:28.840
thank a few people. First of
all Alejandra Rojas for being on the UFO

1374
01:41:29.000 --> 01:41:31.199
updates. I also want to thank
our guest, of course, Greg Bishop

1375
01:41:32.039 --> 01:41:36.560
Evan for trying to make this show
work even though internet was going in and

1376
01:41:36.680 --> 01:41:43.199
out. Thank you so much.
I want to thank Peggy for managing our

1377
01:41:43.279 --> 01:41:47.039
Facebook page, Keith over at the
Dark Matter Digital Network. And so next

1378
01:41:47.119 --> 01:41:50.479
week we have Dean Aliato on.
It should be a real fun show.

1379
01:41:50.520 --> 01:41:55.520
He's a real character. So thanks
everyone, and remember to keep your eyes

1380
01:41:55.640 --> 01:41:56.199
to the sky.