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Hello, lovely people, and welcome
to a very special episode of On the

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Latch. Today it's your host,
Joshi Willisy. Hi, it's me not

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your host, but back from the
brink of depression to fight racism not Again,

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Bet and today we have a very
special guest, Chloe Davies. She

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is an activist, speaker, incredible
by role model, strategic officer for UK

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Black Pride and head of Partnerships for
My g Work. She's an amazing mom

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of two beautiful kids. I'm just
the one who I'm really grateful to know

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and I'm very grateful to have on
this show. Welcome, Hi, thank

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you for having me. I'm really
looking forward to today. This is going

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to be healing. Yeah, don't
don't we all need it, don't we

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just like, haven't it just been
It's been a time at the time time.

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It's so It's fascinating, isn't it. How something that feels so momentous

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we're all experiencing it from our own
homes. I mean, obviously, of

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course people have been out on the
streets, but largely we haven't. Like

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the world has changed so so drastically, and actually the fact that this has

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happened in quarantine. I don't think
is a coincidence. With so many people

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who have been at home, they've
been separated from those day love. They've

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experienced so much in terms of this
global pandemic. But actually there's another pandemic

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that proceeds Corona, and that is
racism. And all of the white people

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listening right now, we're just like, oh my god, racism. I

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didn't think that was what I was
here for. Be another episode on the

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latter. I was really looking forward
to it. Oh, everything's being black,

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I'm home saying, But I posted
my black square. You mean it

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didn't. Oh yeah, don't you
dare rat squares matter? Joking? They

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don't, but yeah, I mean
I usually I do a check in and

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and say, so, well,
how is everybody? Um, so I'm

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just going to ask this instead.
Who's tired of being asked? How are

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you? Definitely, And it was
funny. I was laughing with my friend

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Amber today, um, because you
know, I'm I'm tired of you know,

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how are you? And like are
you fine? You know my thing

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has been like next question please,
um, because traditionally, you know,

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black people, we don't we don't
know how to rest, like you know,

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if you had the upbringing that I
did. My parents are you know,

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African African American. And so even
when you know, you were sick

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and I was desperately ill and I
was trying to get off school, my

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mom was like, but are you
bleeding? Um? And uh. And

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so when we kind of go into
life in the working world, you know,

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we don't clock watch. We do
more than is expected because we know

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that we're held to a higher standard. So in this time when we should

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be taking the time even more so
to you know, apply self care,

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to stop just to not none.
I mean, I'll hold my hands up

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and say, I don't really know
how to do that. And even when

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I do try, I'm a bit
like, Okay, it's been half an

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hour, Like, um, what
what next? Not because I don't want

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to, but um, there's still
so many other things to do. There's

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still so much work to be done. And yeah and yeah, like I

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mean, for me, I do
think that whilst it all comes from a

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good place, that how are you
actually really makes you feel a lot of

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the time it's like not fucking good, you know, and just to even

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almost you know, when somebody is
nice to you when you're upset, and

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then it makes you like almost set
you off sometimes like McCanny, like,

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oh, you're gonna make me cry
here, don't be too nice. It's

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kind of a bit like that,
but also like it can like it can

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because it makes you think, well, actually, now I'm being asked about

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it, I'm not actually that great. But if you're not in the mood

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to talk about it, then you'll
just do that kind of performative. I'm

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fine, thanks for checking, you
know. I find that like the especially

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over the last week two weeks,
and the question is how are you isn't

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really what's bothering me. It's the
intention and the people behind it. A

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lot of the people that I've been
approached by a people that I don't speak

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to on a regular basis or I
wouldn't class as friends, are just people

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that I vaguely know, and to
me, it just seems very like,

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oh, quickly, that's approached the
one of the only black people we know,

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and I hate that. I hate
kind of if if either of you,

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I think, Josh, we're Facebook
friends. So if you've been on

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my Facebook, which is like of
the social media platforms is the one that

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I least use, but is for
sharing pictures of the kids and kind of

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connecting with family and stuff. And
so I haven't done my house cleaning,

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you know, housekeeping on that one
as much as I should have, and

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for the last few days for that
exact reason of people that it's almost like

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they forgot that I was black,
you know, they forgot that they were

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connected to other black people, or
they simply just didn't care. And they

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were all look at that lot outside
protesting and you know, do you think

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that, um, you know,
George deserved it and just some real racist

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rhetoric. So was the block button. My finger was tired from like block,

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but let me cuss you out before
I block and delete you and then

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you know, do what I do, what I need to do. And

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so um, you know, even
even today, like I you know,

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I think when people kind of you
have a level of visibility, whether you

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know, it's that's the reasons why
we're doing this. Like I'm I don't

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do the work that I do for
clout or for recognition. I just would

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like to create a better world for
my kids, and therefore if it means

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I can be a good example,
then then that's why I do what I

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do. Um, But I had
to remind people how at this time they

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should be engaging with the black community. And first and foremost, I don't

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need your guilt. I don't want
your pity. Um, and I am

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not your encyclopedia or your Google,
like that's what Google exists for. Go

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and use a computer, use a
phone, go and find out the information,

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because I think at the moment some
people are being inherently lazy and they're

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not realizing the trauma that it that
it puts on black people right now when

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you're having to say, oh,
you know, how are you? And

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you know, I'm kind of going
back on the last few days when I

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can tell you that, like today, I thought I was having a really

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good day. You know, there's
been a bit of laughter. Um,

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it's been so busy with work and
I've been really stressed, but even that,

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it's like it's been all right.
And then I watched the video of

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rich reg Citatio's dad being tasered by
the police, and the rage that you

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know has been living with me violently
for the last four weeks just came back

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in, you know, blazing glory, and this is this is what we're

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going through. Every day there will
be something that triggers a black person every

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single day. And so when you've
got people sliding into your DMS like help

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me, help you, And also
there's something around like there's something about the

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like there is this like there's definitely
an entitlement there. It's almost like prove

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it in a weird way or like
um, like there's almost like can you

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show me? Can you point me
to some things here? It's just I'm

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not And it's just like I'm gonna
look on the same Google You've got,

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like do you know what I mean? Like it, what do you think

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I'm gonna like literally pull out a
little black book where I can just like

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list off. I'm like one do
like that specific question you've just asked?

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Do you know where that can go? A search engine? Like literally just

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like just how I would do it. I'm also sick of people. I

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nearly had to I think I said
to one person, I'm I'm not a

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social media manager, Like that's not
my job. Because people people kept coming

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into my d MS and asking me
do you think it's okay if I post

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this? Should I post this?
And at the same time, I've got

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other people then coming into my DMS, and I tweeted about this actually,

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and people were really shocked it was
happening. But people were coming into my

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dms and kind of like trying to
prove that they weren't racist with no introduction,

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just like I've done this, this
and this, and I can't believe

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that nobody else is. And I
was like, oh, I mean,

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oh sorry, now I was.
My sentence that I hate at the moment

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is I'm sorry if I've done anything
racist to you. I have had that

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a few times, but I do
One thing that I really got onliners was

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like just it reminded me of what
them were saying about the social media manument.

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Someone was like, could you make
an effort infographic? I was like,

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I'm black, not a graphic designer. Okay, I do not know

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how to do that, I was. I was like, no, I

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can't. And also I'm busy.
M Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of

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a lot of black women influences,
just black women's voices that I follow on

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Instagram. You know, I saw
Tolly put on Twitter today. You know,

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people keep sending her tweets or links
in her DM saying, you know

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you should post this, this is
this will be a really good one.

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To raise awareness to your followers,
like with the expectation that she should continue

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to do their work. Yeah,
yeah, and yeah, and and so

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you know in any of us that
our facilitators of knowledge, whether we do

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it through work, we do it
through our own social media platforms. It's

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like, I think it's that expectation
that I'm finding quite frustrating at the moment

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of continuing to do the work when
you know, the whole point of of

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that square was that it wasn't for
us, it was for everybody else to

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keep doing the work because for many
people, they are just arriving to what

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the at your work is for the
very first time. And it's that word

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as well as that word expectation of
you feel a weight on your shot,

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You feel like a base weight on
your shoulders of what you're already meant to

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be doing. And then people add
to it with wanting to take more from

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you and ask more of you.
And at the same time, it's like

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we're also individual human beings who are
trying to handle our own mental health in

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the middle of a global pandemic as
well as the pandemic of racism, and

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it just becomes really difficult to look
after yourself and make sure you're finding your

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own pockets of space to try and
just be relaxed and just find some respite,

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which is just really difficult to come
back my friends and I are,

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you know, in like I of
all those social media platforms, I think

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Instagram has always been my favorite because
it's just been like my little tribe of

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people and the people that I want
to follow. And I guess as this

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period of time is going through and
you have you find more people engaging or

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more people asking. I always used
to like internally laugh when I would see,

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you know, very visible figures or
people put in guidelines of how they

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would like people to interact with them
on their page, just because it wasn't

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really anything that I ever thought about. But at this time, I think

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there's probably the best thing of self
care is to put how they wish people

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to engage so I know that,
like I saw doctor Ronx had it on

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their page of their expectations of like
don't slide into my DMS for this because

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you will be left on read and
I will not answer, and just has

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people to navigate and move through the
space. And I think that's probably one

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of the best tools that I've seen
in this time of so many black voices,

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Black black people across industry, creatives, musicians, artists are saying this

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is this is how I need you
to navigate with me through this period because

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my mental health, my self care
as precedent UM and I can't have you

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moving like that. Sure, UM, I just want to just I completely

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agree with that. We've got to
kind of look after ourselves because it's like

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things. It was stressful enough before
UM this became, you know, a

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worldwide conversation, and this world wide
conversation. You know, if you're listening

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to this, you know far in
the future or you know you've been under

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a rock. This is about you
know this. This comes off the back

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of UM, I suppose a global
movement sparked by the murder of George Floyd

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when a police officer rested his knee
on George's net for over eight minutes.

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UM this um has This murder sparked
protests which quickly spread from from these across

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the world and definitely the largest in
scale since nineteen sixty eight when Martin Luther

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King was assassinated. Of course,
George isn't the only victim of police brutality.

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Um. In terms of in the
US with Brianna Taylor, Tony McDade,

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there's so many, many, many
more. I could spend the rest

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of this episode literally just reading names. This is something that's been felt across

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the world and of course here in
the UK too. There is so many

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points of tension, from Grenfell to
wind Rush to Belly majinga Sarah remark organ

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over one thousand, five hundred people
have died in police custody in the UK.

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The fact that there is no education
on slavery, black history really or

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colonialism in the curriculum, and that
slave money from slaves has built this country

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as we know it, um and
and and in a versation is starting on

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that. So just for some context, that's where we're where we're at.

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This is just a big question,
But I want to I just I think

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it's important that we talk about it. Does this feel like a genuine turning

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point? Yes, to put it
bluntly, I think like I think that,

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like you said, there hasn't been
There have been like movements in the

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past, especially in like in the
last couple of years. As you know,

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anger rises, but as quickly as
anger rises, anger quickly falls away

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and name has become forgotten and people
carry on and just pick themselves up and

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keep moving. I actually think that
although I thought that this happening in the

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middle of a global health pandemic was
terrible because I was like, dealing with

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two pandemics at the same time is
not great. That's not going to work.

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Actually, I think it's had some
form of I don't want to say

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benefit because I don't want to say
global pandemic is a benefit to anybody.

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But people are at home and not
out, and they can't do anything other

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than pay attention. And I think
that's what's making this actually pick up momentum

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and keep going forwards. So I
do feel like this is a turning point.

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I think we you know, it's
who is listening, because I think

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we can't forget that people have been
fighting and haven't stopped fighting. And it's

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predominantly been the black community that has
been fighting. And so I do agree

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that you know, in the silence
and at least the slowing down that has

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been caused by the global pandemic,
and also, you know, as much

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as you can argue the benefits love
and hate, the positive and negatives of

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social media, it has been undeniable
simply because people can see it. They

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can see a visual representation of what
black people have been telling them for years

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in memoriam, and they cannot ignore
it, they cannot deny that there is

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happening, because it is being played
out on a global stage, not just

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in one location, but in locations, cities, countries all around the world.

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And so that that that you can't
fake, that you can't pretend.

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You know, when we talk about
the murder of George Floyd, and it

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was one main um, you know, main murderer, but four murderers,

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you know, because as we see
the footage from the other side of the

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car and a CCTV, at one
point three of the officers had their knees

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on George. And so when we
when we look to the amount of pressure

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that people have had to apply on
police and you know, the police force

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just to get the people arrested and
then just to get a conviction, and

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they tried to fob the black community
off and the world off with okay,

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well you can have one, but
we're still, you know, going through

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the process of the other three and
now only you know, purely more so

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because of the voices and the footage
have they now you know, charged all

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four of them. And so again
when we look at in this movement,

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you know, in the Black Lives
Matter movement, which again, like I

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said, has been going on for
so long, but this has really been

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amplified by the circumstances and the tragedies
that are happening all around the world.

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That's that's one of the only reasons
that we're really getting changed now because the

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pressure of those voices, the amplification
of black voices and non black people stepping

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up and standing in and using their
voices. You know, when you go

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to protests and Josh, you at
the protests last week, like as you

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look around, yes, black community
is there, but there were others beside

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you, and that I think has
always been the difference in that we have

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had others with us, but there
has never been such an overwhelming number of

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people. And so let's not get
it twisted. Some are completely genuine and

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we're grateful for those people. Others
are doing it because they feel like they've

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been four Some they feel like it
is guilt and that will all come out

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in the wash in its own way. But the collective power of people towards

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government, towards corporations, towards actually
genuinely calling it out and not staying silent.

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You know, we are used to
being silent. We are used to

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being silenced. And so I think
now when I think about how brands are

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getting called out, you know,
when I think about you know, Josh,

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I know we're going to get to
Munroe. But when I think about,

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you know, this is three years
in the making. There's been three

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years that she did not stay silent, and the same things that she said

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three years ago that the entire world
is saying now now it has been deemed

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that it is okay and it is
acceptable, and that wasn't the decision by

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black people, because black people have
stood behind Munroe every single step of the

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way. And so you have to
ask yourself, what is it going to

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take Because without her applying pressure and
the other voices that supported her applying pressure,

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they would have just hoped that we
forgot or that there was something else

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to distract us, and that we
would just let it go and move on,

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and then people could continue to move
in a way that they move.

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That's like you said, Ben,
how it's always been. And the focus

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is that because the majority of the
world has nowhere else to go, that

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they are fully invested in what is
happening in the world because they have nothing

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to distract him. I mean,
for me, I do think that there's

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definitely been a significant turning point.
There's been a groundswell of interest and also

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the conversation and has shifted to a
point where you're absolutely right, the white

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fragility that wants really dominated the conversation
and was able to shout over voices like

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Monroe publicly when they said that actually
that actually the systems and society that we

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live up in today are racist.
That was you know, that white fragility

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now it doesn't have the same cultural
capital that it did then that it does

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now. I mean, no,
it doesn't have the same cultural capital as

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capital now than it than it did
then. And now the conversations moved on

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to the point where brand actually for
them not to say anything. You know,

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they've got black lives a matter of
statements coming out like GDPR these at

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the moment um, you know,
they're like if then you know, they're

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notable by their you know, absence, if they aren't saying something, and

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so you know, the conversation around
brands will always be definitely a tricky one.

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And you know, you and me, we both work with organizations on

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being more inclusive. But there's an
understanding that there's a there's a business case

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and now there's a clear business case, but an anti blackness, which one

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like, of course that's a one
hand. I'm like, that's good.

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But then I also do think that
really will racism ever truly be dismantled while

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capitalism exists. That's another episode I
think. But um, you know,

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I I I agree with you to
a certain extent, but then you know,

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I'm also going to have to challenge
you because you know, like you

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said, this is this is what
we do in our day job. Um,

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you know, and we go into
businesses and you have to remember I

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am a black woman stepping into that
business. So you know, I'm I'm

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taking that with me everywhere I go. And so if I'm talking about inclusion,

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even if I'm talking about that from
an lgbt Q base, I am

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a representation of myself being a black
LGBTQ person, and so if your inclusion

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does not include me, then that
is you know, that means that there

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is some serious work to do and
I think that that's that's the part where

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brands are being held and by brands. I am also saying, you know,

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organizations and corporations that the work isn't
tokenistic or box ticking like in creating

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an inclusive culture, it isn't just
one thing. We are never just one

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thing, and so you have to
think about you know, when I walk

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into a business wherever I go,
I want to walk and work into any

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random business. I want there to
be an LGBT network. I want there

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to be a woman's network. I
want there to be a race network.

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I also want there to be a
parents network or at least that they have

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flexible working practices. That's that's just
me, and that's inclusion for me.

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That's not like a separation. It
is me bringing my entire self to work

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and doing everything that I need to
do to be successful. So on that

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account, I think that on the
opposite side, you know, you are

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seeing and we're all seeing it played
out, you know, mostly on social

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media, where there have been brands
that have behaved in anti black rhetoric and

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that you know don't have you know, they're putting black Lives matter slogans,

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but yet they have no black workforce, They have no black executives. You

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know, the only black people that
they have in their business are hospitality or

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the housekeeping team. And so you
know, from that perspective, it's it's

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where where are you coming from?
And rightly so, the rest of the

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world is saying be it, you
know, be bold, but be honest

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in your intentions. And if your
intentions aren't that you're fully representative of diverse

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you know, diverse people within your
workforce, that's okay as long as you

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admit that you're at the very beginning
of your journey, and people will give

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you the benefits out to actually help
you do the work. But when you

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use bold statements and talk about supporting
a part of a community that is not

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reflective in your business, but you
take their money, that's when I think

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everyone has the absolute right and for
that I will be here all day sipping

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my tea, um, because I
think that I think that businesses should and

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and know that they are going to
be held to that account in a way

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that for a long time, um, they haven't and they've they've quite they've

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quite happily moved in silence, knowing
that the voices haven't been loud enough,

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um to hold them to account in
that way. And you know, and

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like we said, loreal Is is
one of the biggest ones that you know,

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we just just had sense context.
So three years ago Munro was named

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as an ambassador or the representative with
its um and laural paris I believe it

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was, was it and and basically
talked about a systemic racism within within society.

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This created a huge media for all, helped by you know, a

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lot of the right wing press,
including of course a certain Gammon who we

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shall not mention on a certain morning
television UM and and yeah and and as

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a result, actually she was unceremoniously
let go as an ambassador, UM,

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dismissed or let's not let's not show
she was. She was disgustingly fired.

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Yeah and and comin to the wars
as well. Absolutely no support. You

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know, she she didn't interview where
she talked about institutional systematic racism that she

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has not stopped talking about before,
during or since. UM And she was

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and she was fired. She was
fired. They didn't protect her, They

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00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.759
didn't protect her against the press.
And you know, now in a time

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of Black Lives matter, they're coming
out with statements about how much they support

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the black community, and up until
two days ago, Monroe hadn't had na

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fault sheet. But it just reeks
of it, just reeks of like doing

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it now because you know you have
to. I think that brands at the

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moment of finding themselves in this really
awkward gray space of knowing that they haven't

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done enough in the past and knowing
that if they say something, they're probably

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going to be criticized for their lack
of diversity in the past, but also

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knowing that they can't not say anything
because they will also be called out for

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doing the same thing. Also they
can't not only they worried about having not

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done anything. A lot of them
now, those who have come out that

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00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.319
previous employers have been like, there's
you, um and like literally kind of

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came with how many times eats,
So like, I mean, I think

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what I will say is I think
it's a positive step and I'm very pleased

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for Munroe because I think she will
be able to I think it can be

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a definitely a teachable moment um for
for Brad. I'm so proud of I'm

351
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:17.759
so proud of Munroe, and I
think so she's been sorry should we say

352
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so? Apology has been issued,
she's been and now she's sorry, I

353
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:26.720
should we're just talking about as if
as everybody knows, she's she's been hired

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now as a consultant for Lauria,
that she's received an apology, and so

355
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she's going to be, you know, working again with them and thinking about

356
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actually how they how they approach inclusion
and representation as as as a black trans

357
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.880
woman. And I think that is
a fantastically part of the part of a

358
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:49.759
new diversity initiative. But I'm you
know, I'm pleased for her that she's

359
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:53.839
managed to get some closure on this, but also that the work that we

360
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knew that she could have done three
years ago in being such a beautiful visitor

361
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:06.000
role model for the brand and for
other people who wish to see themselves and

362
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:10.319
our reflections of her. Um,
you know, I'm glad that she still

363
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:14.720
gets the opportunity to do that,
and we all know she's gonna absolutely m

364
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:19.359
yeah, so that I'm incredibly incredibly
pleased and m you know, I hope

365
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:22.720
that it's the beginning of a change
for the brand, which with her on

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00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:27.680
board, it absolutely will give her
her flowers. So I want to I'm

367
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:37.000
gonna move us on to um something
that like has definitely been like almost like

368
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it's been a huge part of thinking
about racism in a historical context over the

369
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.759
last few days, and it is
about the statues. So it started on

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00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:53.200
Sunday in Bristol at the Black Lives
Matters protests, where a statue of Edward

371
00:29:53.359 --> 00:30:02.480
Colston, who was a slaver who
transported I think one hundred thousand. What

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00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:10.599
I say transported is putting it incredibly
mild, like barbarically took people from their

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homes, transported them halfway across the
world into slavery in the most appalling conditions

374
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possible. Over twenty thousand people on
their relationships alone died. I went to

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Union Bristol and actually almost everywhere you
go his name is all over. It's

376
00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:33.359
all over the city in terms of
music halls and the like, because he

377
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:41.599
was a huge philanthropist in the city. Now Black Lives Match protests chucked his

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00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:45.279
statue. Well, it first took
it down and then chucked it into the

379
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:51.240
river, and it was an iconic
and symbolic moment and it literally did start

380
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:56.640
a conversation on these statues and our
history and why we are glorifying people who

381
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actively participated and benefited from the slave
trade for for years and years and years.

382
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:07.279
Um. It's a stupid question to
ask whether we think it's a whether

383
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:12.000
it's right that we that we do
this. I assume that we're all on

384
00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:18.200
the same page. Get them all
in the river, um. But my

385
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:25.240
question really are with regards to this
is why do you think people give a

386
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:26.279
ship? Do you know what?
Do you know what it is? I

387
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.759
think some people just I don't want
to simplify it, because I'm sure there

388
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:36.799
are you know, there are overly
complicated reasons for people being assholes. But

389
00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:41.000
I genuinely just think some people like
to be difficult and don't like to be

390
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:47.039
challenged and don't want to be affronted
with basically being told that something that they

391
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:49.720
believe in or something that they like
or something that they're used to is inherently

392
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:55.960
racist and was racist. I mean, ask any of these people who are

393
00:31:55.960 --> 00:32:00.599
standing in front of the statutes and
defending them if they actually care about,

394
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:05.720
like, actually physically care about Edward
Cousten, Like, please tell me is

395
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.119
he a family member? Is her
cousin? I think it's deeper than that

396
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:14.680
or simple than that, I should
say, do you know who he was?

397
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.519
Do you actually know what you're defending? And the answer for many will

398
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:25.039
probably be no guarantee they know,
But yeah, but I think you know.

399
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:29.319
Yeah, But but I think that
we are, you know, as

400
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:31.000
we as we've said throughout, you
know, the whole of you know,

401
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:35.880
the whole of today, Like we
are in a period where people are really

402
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:37.759
having to you know, all of
us, but some people are really having

403
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:43.799
to self reflect and ask themselves questions
about themselves and really kind of look at

404
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:47.079
the way that they navigate through the
world and actually how the world really really

405
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:52.319
is. And so you know,
as much as as it is right that

406
00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:55.160
we're having this conversation about statutes,
isn't really a conversation because we know what

407
00:32:55.319 --> 00:33:00.799
is right and what is wrong.
Let's have the same conversation about museum.

408
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.759
Oh absolutely, let's open you know, I mean, let's have the same

409
00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:09.279
conversation about those precious jewels that you
didn't ask permission, you just took.

410
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:17.079
So where you're you're marveling at,
you know, museums that carry gold and

411
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:22.880
jewels and diamonds and precious paintings and
statues and ivory, and you know,

412
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.519
the list could go on and on
and on, and you didn't. You

413
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:30.599
didn't. You took them by force
in ask to take them. And you

414
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:36.880
have earned money off of the blood
and twit, tears and bones of the

415
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:42.839
people that you stepped over to fill
up to fill up your halls by admissions

416
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.960
and by exhibitions. And you know
where is where's that money? You know,

417
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:52.799
because you're you're complaining about a statue. But to the communities that you

418
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:58.680
have taken all of these precious things
from, you owe them and that and

419
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:04.720
that is the foundations on which our
country has been built. And like there's

420
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:07.480
something around I think, you know, let's not forget like like with all

421
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:12.280
these things in the way that we're
which museums are painted and actually almost glossed

422
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.159
over, the way in which like
how all of these things, you know,

423
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.800
these antiquities have been acquired. Let's
reflect on how the UK, like

424
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:27.000
consistently throughout its its history, is
a nation has rewritten history. You know,

425
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:30.880
it literally deleted you know, you
know, um like civil servants,

426
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:37.840
deleted histories of colonial crimes being you
know, being perpetrated. You know,

427
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:44.760
many times the UK has written rewritten
history. So and even on this occasion,

428
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:49.599
we're trying to kind of rewrite and
sugarcoat history. So I just find

429
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:55.119
the whole thing about rewriting history completely
false because history opted is written by the

430
00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:00.440
victors and um, and so more
often and not we've had that opportunity to

431
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:04.960
rewrite that history. What people don't
really like, I think is the fact

432
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.360
that there's another story that's being told. And I think that's what people are

433
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:13.400
being untelled by, you know,
but what they've always known is wrong,

434
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:17.519
and people don't inherently like to be
wrong. No, I think we need

435
00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:21.559
to normalize, Like I keep seeing
this on social media, and I really

436
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:24.679
like it's like normalize change in your
mind once you get new new information,

437
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:30.599
Normalize understanding that actually that you were
wrong. Oh my goodness. I'm doing

438
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:34.119
it all the time, getting things
wrong, I mean, but also being

439
00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:38.159
aware of that and change in my
mind. And I think they're just They're

440
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:43.800
just isn't that people could be so
rigid in their in their own idea.

441
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:49.519
I think people are. There was
a fear I think throughout all of so

442
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.519
many communications I've had with people,
I think underlying it all, there's a

443
00:35:52.599 --> 00:36:00.400
genuine fear of a people are scared
of being labeled to race it or getting

444
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.079
it wrong. That's why you've probably
had so many people and you know,

445
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:07.519
that's why you've become social media manager. Then yeah, I think so.

446
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:13.360
I think people that's why these conversations
aren't being had because people are scared to

447
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:19.239
actually almost open up the conversation because
they're scared that actually they the fact that

448
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:22.320
the things that they don't know will
come to light, and so they're scared

449
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:28.559
of looking stupid or in some way
uninformed. Um, do you know what

450
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:34.480
else they're scared of. I think
people are also scared of what this change

451
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:39.800
will entail. There's I watched a
video by one of my friends called Grace

452
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:45.039
who she went. She posted like
a thirteen minute video on Instagram and I

453
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:49.400
was watching it and she put it
perfectly and I'm probably about to butcher like

454
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:52.840
her entire point. I loved it
so much. One of those faces.

455
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:54.920
Do go and check it out.
Yeah, but it was like it was

456
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:59.719
just like what it was basically saying
that who we think we are and who

457
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:04.360
we say we are compared to who
we actually are is a completely different person

458
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:07.920
and they're basically strangers. And it
gets to a point where you say that

459
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:14.320
you stand for workers' rights and that
you stand with the LGBTQ community, that

460
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:19.800
you stand with black people, and
you stand with Latin people, but you're

461
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:23.880
supporting causes or you're supporting businesses and
corporations that actively don't. For example,

462
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:30.000
you shop at Amazon, who you
know don't pay their workers fairly, or

463
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:35.519
you pay for repeat or at Papa
John's who pays charities or whatever they do

464
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:38.960
that's not great, which is all
of these corporations. You go to Cachella,

465
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:44.840
and the person who runs Cachello or
owns Cachella funds the Republicans or whatever

466
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:50.599
it's and people are worried about what
will have to change if they don't go

467
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:52.079
to these things, Like if we
don't go to Cachello, can we go

468
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.679
to any other gigs? No?
Well okay, well, but maybe has

469
00:37:55.719 --> 00:38:00.159
to be the sacrificion you make.
Like I think it's kind of like,

470
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.400
yeah, people are what this is
the thing. I think people are up

471
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:07.960
to it to a point. They're
about that life to a point, and

472
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.920
then they're like, oh my goodness, like actually, what where does this

473
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:17.480
because actually structural inequality runs so deep. Yeah, people just think that like

474
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:22.039
saying that I'm not racist means that
that stops them the more responsibility of what

475
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:27.119
they have to do next. And
unfortunately it doesn't just saying that you're not

476
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:30.800
racist. Unfortunately, it isn't the
end goal. That's just not where they've

477
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:36.039
finished linings. But don't don't we
have this conversation about racism, and you

478
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:40.559
know, like as we're saying in
this time here and now, we are

479
00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:46.920
talking about racism specifically and only to
the black community, we are not saying

480
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:54.599
that racism doesn't occur to many different
communities LGBT Asian, within the Asian community,

481
00:38:54.679 --> 00:38:59.599
South Asian, like, there are
so many different levels of racism that

482
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:05.239
happen and across across the globe into
different communities of people. Um, but

483
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:12.159
within that it's almost like that I'm
not racist because I accept that racism happens,

484
00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:15.239
but not in the way that it
impacts me. And if it doesn't

485
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:20.360
necessarily impact me, well that's okay
because I kind of see it and know

486
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:22.920
about it. But until it kind
of comes to my door, can we

487
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:28.000
not just keep it moving because it
makes me uncomfortable? And that's the thing

488
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:35.119
is that we are in this place
of utter uncomfortableness, all of us,

489
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:38.920
like some more than most. But
I'm but I'm but I'm just like,

490
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:45.719
okay, So I accept that you're
uncomfortable, but you know, and I

491
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:50.400
you know, it came to me
best. So there is an amazing,

492
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:54.920
amazing woman, a black woman called
Patriana Jones, who put a thread on

493
00:39:54.920 --> 00:40:01.880
Twitter that was the ten ten things
that best describe racism that black people face.

494
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:07.679
And it's basically just ten questions like
if I wear my natural hair today,

495
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:10.440
will I be differently? Like have
I have I been brought into this

496
00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:15.239
job role out of affirmative action?
You know, does this person date black

497
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:20.159
people? And all these questions that
as black people, you know, every

498
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:22.199
single one. I was like,
yeah, ask myself that question every single

499
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:25.199
time, And isn't that sad?
And I had so many people going,

500
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:29.800
oh my god, that's you know, that's so that's so sad. But

501
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:32.679
that's not a life that you're ever
going to have to live. You know,

502
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:37.239
every every day it doesn't wash off. This is still the color of

503
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:43.519
my skin and I'm proud of it. But you're no, no, no,

504
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.000
no no. But by that I
mean that you don't understand. You

505
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:50.960
don't understand the skin, and you
know, the space that we operate and

506
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:57.960
navigate through. You're just learning that
now, and even when there is less

507
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:04.360
noise, we will still be black
people and this will still happen. So

508
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:09.239
it's almost like when someone does the
kind of I'm not racist, this is

509
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:19.320
not going to go away unless you
address that I am not racist. And

510
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:24.000
I think that's the thing where it's
like we are in a time now where

511
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:32.039
I am please that accountability is high. Like you know how many times it's

512
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.920
if I say anything, yeah,
but nothing's really going to happen to them,

513
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:38.199
or they're going to get away with
it, or they're just going to

514
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.920
make out that I'm the angry one. You know, there are all these

515
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:49.079
times where black people, the black
community has not spoken up, not because

516
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:52.360
they haven't wanted to, but because
they have been silenced by so many other

517
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.280
means. You know, we even
saw it a few maybe was it last

518
00:41:55.320 --> 00:42:01.280
week when at the height of Black
Lives Matter protests? You know, movements,

519
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:09.000
organization, communication like amazing, amazing
networking people sharing, you know,

520
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:15.239
knowledge, foundations, funds to support. You know, if you're going to

521
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:19.559
a protest, you know how to
protect yourself, you know your safety cards,

522
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:22.719
lawyers, all of that that was
happening on social media, and then

523
00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:25.480
they came up with the square.
You know, when it's it's rife in

524
00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:30.960
the media and everyone is talking about
it, regardless of whichever press outlet you

525
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:37.280
come in and out of, and
then suddenly the news was diverted to a

526
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:43.199
year old story. It's not even
a fresh story. They rebut out a

527
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:49.320
year old story about Madeline that had
had nothing to do with the current time.

528
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.920
You know, it wasn't relevant.
It was a year old as a

529
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:58.639
distraction. Oh absolutely, And so
even when good is trying to happen,

530
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.000
they're still the system that's going,
it's getting a bit loud. Now,

531
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:06.280
can we can we try and turn
this down? Um? And it's that

532
00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:12.519
part that's like you yeah, you
you you non non. The press have

533
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:15.920
their whole, but the press have
their their hands are bloody, that's the

534
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:20.199
thing. That's that's why they're drying
a silence. They don't you think,

535
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:22.280
yes, it's going to do loud, but they're like, they're responsible for

536
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:24.239
a great deal of the basis them. So they're like, god, it's

537
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:28.920
all's next. We're gonna we don't
want our sales to drop, absolutely,

538
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:32.400
but people aren't going wilst like except
but you know, some people just want

539
00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:37.280
to believe what they're told and therefore
be lemmings. You know, people people

540
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:44.079
make an active choice to check in
or to buy into what the media tells

541
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:46.519
them. You know, you can
make an active choice to go and research

542
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:50.360
your information, or to go and
get your knowledge, or to go and

543
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:54.159
check into your news elsewhere. So
UM, I don't really, I don't

544
00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:59.079
really buy that that, you know, it's all the media's fault, because

545
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:01.480
you know, I don't just because
it's on the television doesn't mean I have

546
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:05.920
to watch it and then make it
my whole ethos. And I think there's

547
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:08.039
a control. Isn't there a press
in the UK? You know, like

548
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:14.000
not like there's obviously that's why the
internet's democratized media. But if you think

549
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:17.440
about the Sun, you think about
the Male, even the Mirror, you

550
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:24.079
know, they're they're definitely like a
conglomerate, Like what these do you read

551
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:28.639
them? No? But a lot
of the problem is I'm not the people

552
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:31.239
who are you know, a lot
of people who experienced racism don't. But

553
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:37.480
there's a lot of people who,
um, who you know who are racists

554
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:43.960
do um, And so it's self
perpetuated right, Well, I mean we

555
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:47.400
can't speak about here who shall not
be named, but you know, even

556
00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:54.800
the whiplash switch out that he's done
in terms of you know, yeah,

557
00:44:54.280 --> 00:45:00.760
yeah, you know ga Gammon in
chief, you know, of recognizing that

558
00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:05.800
now you know when I used to
watch interviews of him, um, you

559
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:10.119
know with doctor Schuler and he is
oh, you know, in her face

560
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:13.920
and you know, shouting her down, and now he's like, no,

561
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:20.039
Charlotte. I agree. It's like, oh, oh, how long will

562
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:24.360
this continue? I want to talk
about because I like, before I forget

563
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:30.079
what do we think? Grinder is
another company that they got called out and

564
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:36.239
as a result of being called out, they ended up um changing that that

565
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:40.079
the policies they ended up changing that
their ethnicity filter. I did not know

566
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:45.079
that you could actually filter on ethnicity. I mean, I just want to

567
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:50.679
know who in the boardroom or who
in whatever executive position thought that this was

568
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:53.079
a good idea to begin with.
Anyway, I don't use the app,

569
00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:57.920
so I'll leave it up to you
too. I mean, it's very much

570
00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:00.599
you know that mean I'm going to
give the racist gaze at within a while.

571
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:08.760
UM, Like, I think it's
it's deeply problematic and the fact that

572
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:14.320
you can filter by race says a
lot really about you know. Yeah,

573
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:17.599
And I'm also I'm also not going
to applaud them for taking it away either,

574
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:22.920
like it should it shouldn't have been
there in the first place. So

575
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.360
I'm definitely not about to give you
a clap for taking it down in the

576
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:30.760
middle of a racial pandemic, like
I'm not going to give you flowers,

577
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:34.679
so doing what shouldn't have been there
in the first place. But then you

578
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.519
know this, and this is the
dark part that well, I mean,

579
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:38.599
there's one thing, there was a
very practical thing. You know, if

580
00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:43.719
you're a minority group and actually you
don't want constant microaggressions, could it be

581
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:47.599
used by a minority group too,
to try and eliminate that through the ethnicity

582
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:52.320
filters? But we all know that
that's that's not what that's being used for.

583
00:46:53.039 --> 00:47:00.920
The majority of people that are using
the ethnic filters are searching for they're

584
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:04.199
probably white gates suching for other white
gals. I mean, let's be honest

585
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:07.159
too. But then do you think
as well though, that the whoe other

586
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:13.079
thing they're I was thinking was don't
I'm worried that it now will expose more

587
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:17.920
you know black, um, you
know Asian people too, people who are

588
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:22.800
actively raisedst too. Typically they wouldn't
have seen on the timeline. Um.

589
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:27.159
And that in itself as well is
just a point of tension, the fact

590
00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:30.239
that you know, and the how
sad is that they've got to worry like

591
00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:35.039
oh now, though they might take
it out on people like in like actually

592
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:37.199
on the app. Yeah, I
think I think my, like, my

593
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:42.400
one problem with that statement, and
like I understand where it comes from,

594
00:47:42.440 --> 00:47:45.960
and like I understand how we have
to move in certain spaces, um,

595
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:53.159
but like it makes me like itch
thinking that we or people of color have

596
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:58.440
to think about how we're going to
be attacked by other people when those people

597
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:00.239
should be the ones who are thinking, oh my god, no, I

598
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:02.559
shouldn't be racist in the first place. But it just makes me, it

599
00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:07.760
makes me itch to think that we
would be upset about the ethnicity sort of

600
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:12.440
going because we're worried about racial attacks
and really the people who should be ashamed

601
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:15.400
and thinking about this is people who
would be racist in the first place.

602
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:24.559
Oh and that's that nuts too.
Um. Through all of this, like

603
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:29.280
there's been some real traumatic images Onlineland. Do you know what some days have

604
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:34.480
been very very difficult, difficult,
but liked throughout any of this, have

605
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.840
there been moments of joy for you? I want to just you know,

606
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:42.840
I want to just take a pause
and just to have a minute because I

607
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:47.760
think we go it to ourselves.
Firstly, um, because I have in

608
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:52.480
all of this, where have you
found moments of joy? Have you found

609
00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:59.639
things that you've been able to to
laugh at and be grateful for or just

610
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:07.800
in joy? I just want to
guys, um, and with my chosen

611
00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:13.280
family, I mean, my obsession. I don't want to steal your bath

612
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:15.440
line, like, but my obsession
with my baths of like my little fifteen

613
00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:22.920
minute bath bomb deliciousness has been great. Although I normally have one child because

614
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.880
my son can open the bathroom door
now, so that normally gets yeah,

615
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:30.039
that gets invaded. Yeah, normally
gets invaded. So you know, there's

616
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:35.800
no time for candles or anything like
that and really bug it up. But

617
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:42.960
yeah, chatting chatted friends, um, just checking in, Like I've managed

618
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:47.519
to catch a couple of like two
hours. Last week, we had a

619
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:58.519
social distance visit with Instagram chat over
a takeaway and we just like belly laughed.

620
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.159
At one point. I think I
was you know, m lady like

621
00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:07.000
and you know wifingk snocks us laughing
so hard, but you know one of

622
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:10.079
those ones that really like feels your
soul like, um, you know.

623
00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:15.239
I managed to have a massive long
chat with Lady Field the other day,

624
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:17.920
which really made me feel so much
better. And my friend Amber and I

625
00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:24.159
were sending voice notes to each other
today, which was just cool to like

626
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:29.480
hear each other's voice and hear each
other's laugh um down the phone. You

627
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:31.199
know. One of my friends is
you know, you've got to check in

628
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:35.440
with your humans, and so it's
been nice to kind of just chat to

629
00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:39.320
her and stuff like, Yeah,
any any of my friends that I can

630
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:46.679
just stop and relax and like just
you know, imagine what it's going to

631
00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:52.119
be like moral together again and create
that space over a phone care of WhatsApp

632
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:57.000
video like that's there my self care. I think that's what I'm living the

633
00:50:57.079 --> 00:51:05.960
most for at the moment, is
to get back that. Yeah. I'm

634
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:09.360
trying to figure out a way to
say it without giving too much away,

635
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:16.920
because do you work out how I
got around that one. I'm trying to

636
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:22.719
think, like I've been I've been
working on like a side project for years

637
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:29.800
now, and this it's really annoying
that it finally came to fruition in the

638
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:34.920
last couple of months, but I
feel like that's been able to take my

639
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:39.679
mind off things, and yeah,
kind of similar. Just I've been popping

640
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:45.079
up on the internet for the last
couple of weeks on various platforms and just

641
00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:49.960
reminding other people to do what I've
been doing, which is just find little

642
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.679
pockets of breathing room just to be
and be balanced and to kind of get

643
00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:59.079
back to yourself and know that you're
not a terrible person for tuning out the

644
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:04.320
news for an hour and having an
hour to yourself to watch things that make

645
00:52:04.360 --> 00:52:07.840
you laugh and to cheer you up. Because we all have to look out

646
00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:09.280
for each other, but we also
have to make sure we're looking up for

647
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:15.639
our own mental health and our own
state of mind. And it's it's it's

648
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:19.400
so imperative, and I've been just
urging people and trying to urge myself to

649
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:22.679
make sure that we are all looking
after each other and we all know that

650
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:24.760
we're there for each other, but
we're also there for ourselves, which is

651
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:29.599
what is just as important. Yeah, I am, I had to.

652
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:32.000
I think it's the only it's the
only way, you know, we were

653
00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:36.599
saying at the beginning, like sometimes
some of us just don't know how to

654
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:39.000
rest or. You know, we're
so busy with work, and then you

655
00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:45.519
know, I'm so busy with kids
and remembering that I am also my own

656
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:51.360
priority and getting because I am awful
at this. You know, the people

657
00:52:51.400 --> 00:52:52.920
that I trust around me that are
like, okay, so what did you

658
00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:58.119
do today and actually holding me to
account, Like my therapist will drag me

659
00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:01.320
on my sessions. She does.
I love her. She's amazing. And

660
00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:04.559
she was like, okay, so
what time did you take for you?

661
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:07.920
And I was like, okay,
so can we Like so I was saying

662
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:09.800
before, She's like, no place, So what time do you take for

663
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:15.400
you? And it's almost like knowing
that the people that really care about you're

664
00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:17.400
gonna I'm also going to hold you
to that account that I really need to

665
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:22.199
hold myself to that account as well, and so um, you know,

666
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:27.599
it doesn't have to be hours.
It doesn't even have to be an hour.

667
00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:31.039
It can be half an hour of
just silence, or half an hour

668
00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:36.480
of switching off social media, turning
off your phone. Like so many of

669
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:38.320
my friends where before it was like
I will leave our phones on for an

670
00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:42.599
emergency. They're like, so just
to let you know my phone is going

671
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:45.599
off, and no, I'm going
to churn it. I can churn it

672
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:52.880
back on because we have to go. That actually gives me anxiety. I'm

673
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:59.559
like, I'm like, I put
my best friend said, I'm turning my

674
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:05.800
phone off, Like so what,
Oh my god, I'm such an addict.

675
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:07.280
I'd be like, let me just
pop on the get get on the

676
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:14.599
laptop. Of a second. I'm
just gonna just it's healthy. It's healthy,

677
00:54:14.599 --> 00:54:17.559
and we have to So now I'm
gonna double check Josh, I'm gonna

678
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:27.079
check somewhere like but also it didn't
reply and my phone was off on Instagram.

679
00:54:25.880 --> 00:54:29.440
Um, do you know what like
the things that I've found, like

680
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:31.239
it has been really now it's this. I've really just tried to do a

681
00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:37.000
little bit of cute home improvement.
So Nil made a planter which was like

682
00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:39.719
you know, like something like we
put like a box to put plants in.

683
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:44.639
UM for the book. For our
front, I'm calling it a garden,

684
00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:49.199
which is a huge tree. Um. It's a pensive concrete on the

685
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:52.519
front of our house. But we've
got turf on the front of it.

686
00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:55.840
We've put some turf down, We've
got some like plants and so we've just

687
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:59.760
really and we've got some like depth
chairs bet we have on the front.

688
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:02.840
Bear in mind the front is this
is basically onto the street. So when

689
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:07.199
when with that out there, it's
it's it's it's a public momentum. But

690
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:14.320
yes, this planter Nowl's made.
I helped and then we're like we like

691
00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:20.400
painted it. We've been standing it
down and just like that kind of has

692
00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:24.079
just brought me kind of just just
some home improvement, some looking after the

693
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:28.599
like what where I am and just
trying to think about the things that I

694
00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:32.639
have control over, because of course
I do have control, and I'm pushing

695
00:55:32.679 --> 00:55:37.639
things forward and in my work,
but when you see things going on sometimes

696
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:44.079
you can just get this sense of
helplessness or helplessness you're out of control and

697
00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:47.039
so and as to somebody who is
naturally anxious, and a lot of that

698
00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:52.079
comes from I think, like control
and wanting control to an extent. You

699
00:55:52.199 --> 00:55:59.280
just mentioned Chloe actually about talking to
Lady Ville, and so I think it

700
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:01.280
would be with miss of us to
really, you know, go this episode

701
00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:08.119
episode without talking about Black Pride and
how incredible an organization it is. But

702
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:13.920
also you know, this huge swell
of support that it's had and of course

703
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:16.760
of donations that it's had over the
last couple of weeks, which is hugely

704
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:22.679
encouraging. Are you excited and talks
already begun for twenty twenty one or what

705
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:30.679
you mean, Josh frewind We are
twenty twenty you know, come on,

706
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:37.320
we are Black and lgbt Q three
hundred and six to five days the year

707
00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:42.119
twenty four seven. We just because
there is you know, the pandemic has

708
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:45.079
meant that we don't have an opportunity
to have a physical event, didn't mean

709
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:49.639
that we wouldn't you know, still
reach out to our community. So you

710
00:56:49.639 --> 00:56:53.519
know, we have already announced we're
part of Pride and side alongside Stonewall,

711
00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:59.480
Amnesty International and Power Pride, and
that kicks off on twenty eighth of June

712
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:02.760
until the fifth of July, and
then we have a team meeting. Our

713
00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:07.840
next team meeting is on Friday,
where we are you know, still in

714
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:15.519
our planning for our fifteenth at fifteen
anniversary virtual celebration and everyone will kind of

715
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:17.519
find out about that a little bit
later. But that would be a little

716
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:22.079
bit later on in the year,
a few months after, you know,

717
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:27.519
a few months off frid and aside. So yeah, I am ecstatic,

718
00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:30.480
Like I wish we could all be
in the bosom of each other's company.

719
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:36.760
Our core team are amazing people and
you know, my chosen family they are.

720
00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:39.679
You know, we're all keeping each
other boisting void and you know,

721
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:44.360
grieving together where we need to.
But they're an amazing bunch of people.

722
00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:50.840
So the work that everyone is doing
to kind of facilitate all the conversations that

723
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.440
we would if we could all be
together in purpose but sorry in person,

724
00:57:54.079 --> 00:58:00.880
but all the necessary conversations that have
come out of this pandemic. Um,

725
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:06.320
yeah, it's keep your eyes peeled, it's it's it's gonna be LITM.

726
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:09.840
You know, I'm really excited,
and M I think everybody else should be.

727
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:14.920
And you know, it's great to
have all the continued support that we've

728
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:17.400
had for UK Black Pride, you
know. But it's not just us,

729
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:22.800
it's you know, exists loudly fun
that Tanya is doing. It's the trans

730
00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:27.000
initiatives. I know, Um,
Doris Show she in the US, she

731
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:34.480
has been campaigning for black trans women
and so to just see the collective UM

732
00:58:34.760 --> 00:58:39.000
support for Black LGBT people across the
world, even in you know, like

733
00:58:39.079 --> 00:58:44.480
funds, people paying people's bail.
You know, people's paying for housing or

734
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:46.800
for clothing, or for bills or
for food. You know, across the

735
00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:53.320
entire LGBT community for Black people has
has been m great. And you know,

736
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:58.079
like I said, in anything and
in everything that has been coming out

737
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:02.119
of this Black Lives Matter movement,
UM is the consistency with which people continue

738
00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:06.000
to keep doing that. You know, once you've done it once, now

739
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:07.719
we're going to make sure that you
keep doing it for a very long time

740
00:59:07.719 --> 00:59:12.199
because we know that you can UM. And I think that's been the most

741
00:59:12.199 --> 00:59:15.119
positive thing out of this is to
be is to be able to see the

742
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:22.079
overwhelming support and whether it be donations
or fundraising UM. And and that has

743
00:59:22.199 --> 00:59:25.760
not only come during Pride months,
but UM for genuine support for you know,

744
00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:31.719
the black community, which includes black
LGBT people, so they all like

745
00:59:31.760 --> 00:59:37.360
all Black Lives matter, and really
there would be no movement without people.

746
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:42.119
And again for the people and a
black Josh, So if you're you know

747
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:44.800
you're all black, well you know, if you're if your Black lives matter

748
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:49.639
is you know, is homophobic,
then really the message is lost and it

749
00:59:49.719 --> 00:59:52.119
needs nothing. That's so exciting about
all the things that you've got on the

750
00:59:52.119 --> 00:59:57.039
table coming up a pride. That
was the lead of me to completely push

751
00:59:57.079 --> 01:00:00.159
over them because I think it's going
to be like so many things that the

752
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:07.199
community is so in usum. But
also talking about pride inside um, Benny,

753
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:12.320
you're part of a single adult household
because now you can have a support

754
01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:19.960
bubble I live with. I was
talking about this with him earlier. I

755
01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:22.239
was like, if we know anyone
who lives on their own, you can

756
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:24.679
make our own support bubble. But
I am no, no, no,

757
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:28.760
no, I shan't be doing okay
because I'm just going to say the gays

758
01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:36.880
will rejoice. You queens know who
you are on Twitter already. I've seen

759
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:45.000
the massage, the messy, messy, messy desperate for that emotional support.

760
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:50.719
It's not what you call it.
I mean I think it is. When

761
01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:53.000
I'm a single, I don't remember
getting any emotional support. Ubers on the

762
01:00:53.039 --> 01:01:00.639
way. If that out of the
door, I'm taking no after care.

763
01:01:01.519 --> 01:01:09.639
Um. But yeah, it's um
Like I think it's it's a step forward.

764
01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:13.239
Although I think people are just desperate
to see that families. Now what

765
01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:20.599
I missed my people, you know, like I'm I where people who inherently

766
01:01:20.639 --> 01:01:23.800
love being around other people. Um. I you know, I grown up

767
01:01:23.920 --> 01:01:28.599
with a big family. I like
being with my family. I like my

768
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:30.679
own space, but I like being
in the bosom of other people, even

769
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:36.320
if you know we're both doing separate
things in the same room. It's that

770
01:01:36.519 --> 01:01:42.519
kind of closeness to another human being, that is, someone that you actually

771
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:47.920
choose to share space with. And
I think, especially within the LGBT community,

772
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:52.079
there are people that we choose.
Are the people that are chosen family

773
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:54.760
that keep us saying, that give
us life, you know, that we

774
01:01:54.880 --> 01:01:59.679
love, that bring us happiness because
for many of us, you know,

775
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:05.159
our our families may not necessarily be
connected to us, and our friends become

776
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:08.519
our lifeline. And so I think
not being connected to that has been you

777
01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:16.960
know, quite harsh. But um, we are proactive, imaginative, resourceful

778
01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:22.880
people. Um. And so the
many ways in which we're all still managing

779
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:28.199
to communicate with each other and kind
of be together, be together. Um,

780
01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:36.159
when we are out of lockdown and
we can move freely, those gatherings,

781
01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:40.559
those parties, those dinner parties,
you know, the movie nights,

782
01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:45.239
the whatever it is that we do, probably going to be in someone's house.

783
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:52.679
Uh yeah, take the next day
off work. And in fact,

784
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:57.079
like, um, you know,
we already my friends and I already started

785
01:02:57.119 --> 01:03:02.760
planning like a few um it blew
up on it blew up on Instagram.

786
01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:08.599
I think it was a video from
the Shade Room where they were laughing during

787
01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:15.480
a family game of Black Card Revoked
um, which is a is a card

788
01:03:15.559 --> 01:03:21.239
set where you kind of go through
different different things under the premise of that

789
01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:24.519
if you don't give the correct answer, your black card will be revoked.

790
01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:30.400
And they had the Shade Room,
which, if anyone knows, the Shade

791
01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:38.639
Room on Instagram is a news and
social media site that is predominantly from the

792
01:03:38.719 --> 01:03:49.039
black and brown community. And well
they have a petty edition. So yeah,

793
01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:52.159
that's that's that. And you know, and black Jack. We're gonna

794
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:55.840
have a card night for the first
reunion, which I think will be a

795
01:03:55.840 --> 01:03:59.920
bit dangerous, but it will be
a lot of fun. So no camera,

796
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:04.480
snow videos. You have to be
there, just people, just people

797
01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:12.039
vibing absolutely well, do you know
what, It's been an absolute joy vibing

798
01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:15.599
with you. I've enjoyed this so
much. Like one thing I do want

799
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:18.079
to say is that this isn't going
to be a podcast where we just sit

800
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:24.400
down and tell people how to be
an ally. I think like it's it's

801
01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:28.480
in some ways counterproductive. I think
it's about educating yourself and assessing. If

802
01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:30.599
you've listened to this today, you
sat right, okay, get that,

803
01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:34.119
get it exist, No, it's
happening now we'd want me to do about

804
01:04:34.159 --> 01:04:39.079
it. I think you've got to
really think about what your power is.

805
01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:44.360
What what capacity do you have to
influence You've got your own behavior, what

806
01:04:44.440 --> 01:04:47.880
you consume, what you spend your
money on, what you read, what

807
01:04:47.960 --> 01:04:53.079
you watch. They're the things you
you also have control of thinking about outside

808
01:04:53.119 --> 01:04:57.000
your own self. Who can you
talk to you? You can talk to

809
01:04:57.039 --> 01:04:59.639
your family, you can talk to
your friends. What's one of the best

810
01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:01.000
things I I've seen. You know
you talked about Facebook before close. The

811
01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:04.599
best thing I've seen is actually white
people arguing with other white people about racism.

812
01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:10.079
I was never happening before. It
was always black people argument with white

813
01:05:10.079 --> 01:05:14.400
people about racism. And now it's
great because it's like all the people are

814
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:18.239
doing some of this heavy lifting talk
to your family. Have these conversations just

815
01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:23.719
it can be about check understanding.
Start from a place of look, I've

816
01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:27.320
learned this, I've come here,
we make mistake, you know, I

817
01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:30.599
think that's where where these conversations are. And then think about your organizations.

818
01:05:30.840 --> 01:05:34.320
Have you know, have you done
training? And I would go beyond just

819
01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:39.360
a you know, a coulidiversity inclusion. I'll go beyond just unconscious buyers.

820
01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:42.559
Would you know to talk about have
we had a conversation about race in the

821
01:05:42.639 --> 01:05:48.039
organization? And if not, let's
let's let's start one um and and then

822
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:51.719
that's just my advice just as a
as a as a little starting point.

823
01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:59.559
But I don't want to labor that
too much because this really is just I

824
01:05:59.599 --> 01:06:02.480
think we don't live. It's as
base for us to just chat, right,

825
01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:09.039
you know, my my thing to
anyone. You know, the few

826
01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:14.000
friends that I have responded to that
have asked for, um, you know,

827
01:06:14.119 --> 01:06:16.360
some guidance in where they should look. You know, we we haven't

828
01:06:16.360 --> 01:06:20.960
stopped talking about at the moment,
the power of social media hashtag black Lives

829
01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:26.599
Matter, their wealth of resources of
people that have created lists of the books

830
01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:29.000
that you should be reading. You
know, the books that you should be

831
01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.519
reading if you're a white person,
How to have conversations with your family,

832
01:06:31.599 --> 01:06:38.000
how to have conversations white person to
white person written by white people. There

833
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:43.360
are hundreds and thousands of these posts
across all of the so, you know,

834
01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:47.440
even if you have an aversion to
Google, like just go into an

835
01:06:47.440 --> 01:06:53.960
app, hit the link and do
some reading. You know, I love

836
01:06:54.079 --> 01:06:57.840
Instagram. If you're not a bookworm
like I am, you don't like to

837
01:06:57.880 --> 01:07:01.320
read a physical book, they have
graphic posts, they have interactive posts.

838
01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:04.400
You know, they don't just have
you know, blocked x. There are

839
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:11.199
so many different like short tips,
so um yeah, help and educate yourselves

840
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:15.440
as kind of been my message to
everyone, you know, even like I

841
01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:18.360
said, in this time of self
reflection for us as the black community,

842
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:25.280
you know, I've been reading self
care. I'm reading like other black women,

843
01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:30.239
other black men, you know,
other other experiences and taking like little

844
01:07:30.280 --> 01:07:33.280
tips of things that I could do, but also kind of finding other black

845
01:07:33.320 --> 01:07:41.199
therapists or mental health is like I've
just bought um my my Black Therapy.

846
01:07:41.599 --> 01:07:45.039
Um it's a card set that I
literally just saw on LinkedIn that another black

847
01:07:45.039 --> 01:07:51.519
person shared that have been created by
a black doctor that is shing Forward Black

848
01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:55.519
Health, and I was like,
absolutely, I'm about that, you know,

849
01:07:55.519 --> 01:07:57.840
and I ordered and I ordered my
own. So you know, in

850
01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:01.199
any instance like that, they're always
opportunities for people, so they should take

851
01:08:01.239 --> 01:08:06.840
them all. Thank you so much. UM been any thoughts from you,

852
01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:15.520
any kind of final thoughts, UM, just lead with common sense. I

853
01:08:15.600 --> 01:08:19.640
know that wasn't shared out equally at
birth, but UM, you know,

854
01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:26.119
it's just it really isn't asking having
having and earth to see a quality and

855
01:08:26.199 --> 01:08:30.800
to push the basic human rights.
UM. I second what everyone else,

856
01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:33.960
what everyone else has already said,
and just go out and do your own

857
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:39.760
research and find out way that you
can help. There's so many organizations for

858
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:46.479
you to support. UM. Obviously
you've got Black Pride, You've got the

859
01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:54.239
exists lovely if you're thinking about this
is specifically m lgbtre's so many beyond beyond

860
01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:59.159
that, I've got to also give
a shout out to the charity and which

861
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:03.039
was of Stone All Housing. You
know, fifty five percent of those who

862
01:09:03.039 --> 01:09:08.279
engage with our services are BAM and
seventy seven percent of people who are are

863
01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:14.319
supported accommodation or OBAMI, so we
you know, it's UM, we're out

864
01:09:14.359 --> 01:09:16.039
there doing the work and it's and
I'm very proud to be at Trustee that

865
01:09:16.479 --> 01:09:21.199
there's so many different and fantastic organizations. But again, as Chloe said,

866
01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:29.720
go out there and do the research. I think a great place to have

867
01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:33.399
a look is the exists loudly because
there's so much Because actually what Tany is

868
01:09:33.439 --> 01:09:41.239
now doing with the funds is she's
distributing it to three charities specifically are now

869
01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:45.840
now Yeah, it's the more more
money, but she's raising she's adding so

870
01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:49.520
yeah, like you said, you
paid, like Pride exists loudly either u

871
01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:57.399
UK key to Park Emergency and Hardship
Fund obviously like Mermaids and Gender Intelligence supporting

872
01:09:57.479 --> 01:10:06.560
the trance community and know colors UK
UM buys of color like their Yeah,

873
01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:13.640
like there were so many initiatives blackout
like there are others that UK of course

874
01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:18.359
Yeah not so yeah. The list
goes on, do your research, but

875
01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:24.119
think about investing UM. But yeah, thanks, like, thank you,

876
01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:28.560
thank you, thank you so much
for doing this. I really do appreciate

877
01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:30.640
it. Ben, thank you for
coming back. I've missed hearing your voice

878
01:10:30.640 --> 01:10:34.840
and miss having you on the podcast, and the regular listeners will will have

879
01:10:34.960 --> 01:10:38.920
too. It's been lovely to have
you and I'm really proud of you what

880
01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:45.359
you're doing, your exciting project.
Um TVC and Chloe, thank you so

881
01:10:45.439 --> 01:10:47.640
much. You know what, it's
been so lovely to have a black woman's

882
01:10:47.720 --> 01:10:54.520
voice on this part. Thank thank
you, thank you, um and thank

883
01:10:54.560 --> 01:10:59.840
you for everything that you're doing and
it's been in an absolute joy awesome than

884
01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:02.600
for having me. Yeah, keep
up, keep up the great work.

885
01:11:03.159 --> 01:11:09.800
I love a podcast, so I'm
excited to hear who's on next. Um,

886
01:11:10.119 --> 01:11:14.279
well, thank you, thank you, thank you for those uh you

887
01:11:14.359 --> 01:11:19.279
know, the drill. Please write
in with any questioned any kind of I'd

888
01:11:19.319 --> 01:11:24.239
like if you need any advice,
So would just have any comments. Um

889
01:11:25.640 --> 01:11:30.279
obviously please do follow us at on
the Latch on Twitter, on the Latch

890
01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:38.840
podcast on Insta ramis promise promised,
we'll start playing. But yeah, until

891
01:11:38.960 --> 01:11:42.920
next time. Thank you all so
much. Day safe, look after each

892
01:11:42.960 --> 01:12:08.840
other and remember the Black Lives Matter. Kings. B Cervier rainings, Hemus

893
01:12:09.800 --> 01:12:16.319
Bakers to user rainings. He considered
workers