Adventist Radio London. Inspiration for the song Welco talking about with Ray Angela,
discussing the hot topics and answering your questions. Saturday's five to seven pm on
Adventist Radio London. It's talking Point. It's talking Point. It's talking Point,
it's talking Point conversations. You need to have good afternoon everybody, and
welcome to Talking Point. Sorry, a little bit of confusion here on my
end um as. Last week the ladies had a universe unilateral decision to help
me lead out. Today I'm actually at the board so it's my first time
being at the board side. Do apologize. I'm doing all right, all
right, I want to thank everybody for joining us again. Zenia and Angela
are with me today on zoom. Uh. This is why I missed Pastor
Ray because you know, I had a had a had a you know,
a brother actually we're gonna talk about today. I had a brotherhood in arms.
Were Pastor Ray to help me out on these sort of things like this.
You know, he wouldn't let me be you know, thrown to the
fire like this. I'm hearing me, but you know it's okay, so
right, I don't know want you decided that because he would be I'm trying
to help out my brother. Don't be trying to blow him up like that.
Yeah. Yeah, normally be celebrating his birthday, but unfortunately we didn't
get to do that. This weekend, he celebrated his sixty year. I
could say it because he put it all over Facebook, so I don't think
he'll mind if I was to say the number, happy birthday pastor y Yes,
yes, yes, huh birthdays this week? Yeah? Yeah, it
was my Michael's birthday yesterday. I like that, Yeah Michael, Yeah,
so Michael, this is his birthday. His nephews on the same day called
Quinlan's today. Raise actually has somebody else who's I remember? I had two
birthdays, Yes you did, Yes, the fifteenth and twenty third. I
have a fifteen and a thirteen year old now, yes, have mercy.
It's a popular week. And then I got a couple other birthdays from nieces
and cousins and nephews and yeah, so it's been a really busy month for
myself. So how you doing, Angela? How was your week so far?
Oh? How was your week? It was busy, busy, stressful,
it was hot and I'm so thankful and blessed that we have having this
weather. But I suppose I love the weather. Sometimes when you're having to
do lots of things and you're out about it was dame, I say it,
Lord, please we give me. It was almost too hot. Now
I've been rushing around, I'm trying to find something and I'm just like,
I'm really hot now. So I'm sitting here with a fan on my face.
Um. So the heat. Whilst it's lovely, I guess when you're
busy working or if they're sitting in a cart, sometimes it's not so great.
Um. And again, oh definitely, I know you feel quickly,
um, and I'm thankful again. You know, we have a sabbath for
here at sabbath. But so it's been, it's been. It's been a
bit of an up and down. We hand to say, Um, I'm
looking forward to just chilling tomorrow. I think I think I probably have a
to do list of one hundred and one things to do. I don't think
I'm gonna do that much though, chill because the week's just going to start
again and that's you know, back to the same or same old as it
were. So yeah, the weekend still fly by. I don't think,
oh, definitely, it really is. I just think I feel like I'm
blinking and it's gone, Oh my goodness. Real. Yeah, we're already
in July, so even don't start how many days still Christmas? There I
go there. You know, I have a friend that does that. She
puts it off, she starts like early. Oh my god, friend she
does that. She puts it on really early. Late when it's like three
hundred, two hundred days to Christmas, she started putting up on Facebook.
And I'm like, really, that's a bit much, that's a yeah,
that's a bit much. But she does do that. We're already looking.
I'm like, come on, really, come on really, but yeah,
I get it. Time's flying. Definitely, it's flying. So Zania,
how was your week? Um? I was tempting to say, same old,
same all that, but I won't. I won't. Um My week
was good, like like Angie, I'm enjoying the sunshine, but I could
do with it being down and notch and just saying but you know, like,
an't want to be a grateful either. I've been logging for some warmer
weather, so we're grateful lights here and it's glorious, it's blue skies.
It's just it's just it's fantastic. So for all those, as you would
say, pull Pedro, some worshippers out there, you know they're they're lapping
it up and enjoying it. Um. But yeah, just kind of work
everything else. Jahim finished his GCSS, so you know, congrats to him
and everyone else, all the young people who have sort of put their pens
down and and now moving into summer mode. I just wish them all well.
Exam results I think come out in August, so prayers answered, everyone
will have good results and be able to move on with where they want to
move on for the next phase of their lives. So yeah, just doing
that and now planning birthdays and summer holidays and the rest of it. But
God is going on. I'm grateful. Yeah, I can see where you
come up with that. My son, he's fifteen, so he's got one
more year and he's already stressing. We wanted to move, but he was
like, please, can we not move because he didn't want to move to
a new school with one year and he's like, I'm used to the school.
Even I had issues at the school in the beginning I would rather stay
because he's comfortable. So now we have to stay one more year before we
can move because of him. But I love him, so it's you know,
I'm good. I do that for my son. But I told him
after that we out because everybody else is like, we need to go,
but he's the only one that's holding his back. But I agree with that.
I mean, no, no point disrupting him. And also different schools
operate differently, so yeah, to plug him out one and plug him into
another. Yeah, I thought about it because at first I was like,
they don't make a difference. They teach the saying that not really differences between
the school. Yeah, but it's just more about him just being in a
different environment and he's not. He's not one that takes different environments that easily.
He takes a minute to adjust. So for his benefit, you know,
because he told me yesterday he's trying to get all nines. I don't
even know what that means. It's good, it's all good. I don't
know what that means. I'll be honest, I have to ask, and
he says, he said, he said, what you just said, it's
good, And I'm like, okay, cool, I no, I don't
know the new system, but I think it's somewhere around A. Plus.
He's trying, he's trying to slash it, so we're gonna see how he
do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, how was your week? My week
was was like, um, Angelas said, I've been driving in this heat
and it's absolutely scorching. I actually don't like the sun. Yeah I've said
that before, having that I don't like the sun. I don't because I
feel like the sun just drained you. Um, end of the evening,
You're just so drained you can hardly function. And I prefer like when it
was raining. I was enjoying it, you know, I was. I
was really enjoying it. People was like, why are you smiling his raining?
I'm like, because it's cool cool. Yeah, but then the humidity
kicks in, said, makes it even hotter, So you know, give
a take um bout us for that. Yeah, driving around in the heat.
I'm just trying to stay hydrated and um. But I had a good
week. Did a couple of things and then oh, as I said,
a couple of birthdays, so I had though, Um, we didn't really
do birthday parties. We kind of just um let them pick a meal,
they pick where they want to eat them, and then we just do that.
Have a cake. No, Sky, Sky was first, and then
Junior was was second. Yeah, happy birthday, Sky, and then my
you met Johnny. Johannes's Monday, so after three in June, Johannes's Monday,
So Joe's Monday, so he's the twenty six goes twenty six on the
twenty six expensive month. No, then my oldest goes twenty ninth on the
twenty ninth in August, and then my nine year old goes nine July eighteenth,
so three months of five kids. Yeah, I was. I was
a gluten and for punishment, so you know, it is what it is.
But enough about my pain and suffering. You know, it was Father's
Day last week and we were saying, because obviously have the birthdays everything else,
did they do anything? They made me breakfast? Oh cool, they
made me breakfast. I woke up to breakfast, not in bed, but
I woke up to breakfast. Yeah, and they they made it. They
went they told my mother, my mother, they told my wife to sit
down, and they actually went into the kitchen and made it. They made
me some eggs, hash browns. Bacon, turkey bacon. Let me say
that. Turkey bacon, folks, turkey bacon, and um what else I
had? Yeah, and and they and some grapes and so they made that
and I had that for um for breakfast. So yeah, and then after
that we just chilled. I'm not a picky I'm not a real fussy person
when it comes to like holidays and doing things like that. I've just done
a significance of it. But I was. I was happy with that,
and they just spent the day. Actually, I wasn't feeling good because I
was supposed to go out, but um, we didn't. We didn't go
out. So I know you are kind of saying, oh, you know,
it's kind of shadow. But everything else so recognized, as she said,
not just recognizing you for that one day. You know, father's father
figures. I just think we should. We should. We should appreciate fathers
every day, just like we should appreciate mothers every day. Everybody, everybody
is all. It's an all day, every day thing, every minute because
we all have a part in our lives that we have to play. We
all have different aspects that we have to do, and it's a struggle that
we were working every We work every day, just like marriage or just like
parenting. We're working every day. Is something new every day, so we
got to work and get that and just you know, we're learning something new
every day. It's just a consistent and because you know, you know,
yeah, it's just listen, a bit of appreciation goes a mighty long way.
And just to thank you, I love you. You know, I'm
grateful for what you do. Doesn't take by the minute, but it can
make such a difference. So every day, why not. Definitely, I'm
glad you said that, but I'm not gonna say what I was gonna say,
because then we'll get in trouble. Oh not not with you, not
with you, with my wife. Because my wife said something to me yesterday
that blew my mind and I was like, really, well, I'm not
gonna blow out like that. You would if I told her what she said,
you'd be like, she didn't say that, Did she really say that?
You know whatever? But I'm gonna leave it at that side, folks.
Yeah, she come over here and beat me up. Tell you.
So we're going to go to a break and then when we come back,
we're going to be joined by Stephen Right, Yep, we're gonna talk about
yes, because this week we are come to the ends of our men's mom
this we have been celebrating and recognizing the men in our well men in our
lives, but of men in general, a little bit about men's health and
mental health. That's what we do, fathers, and today we're looking at
brotherhood and the idea of kind of what that made mean. You know,
we send you and I and I'm sure many women are often talking about you
know, men and they're connecting and how they interact with each other. So
I'd like to think there is a brotherhood of men out there, whether it's
your friends, your family and spud brothers, your brothers can be christ within
the church and community. But is that really happening? So many people I
talked to recently are just like, what, you know, what do our
men do? We have a men's ministry team within our church, but sometimes
the case I may not know what's happening because it's not necessarily targeted me,
But I guess they want to know what's happening. But we want to know
about men's connections and how they connect with each other. So yeah, that's
what we're going to be discussing and we have got we will have two brothers
on guests are guesting us today mentioned one Stephen and brother Andrew, but we'll
meet them. Asked the break, So yeah, if we want to know
what brother and I was asking the question, how are you your brother's keeper?
Because we say that so you know, and as Christians sometimes that's what
we sometimes are apt to doing. So yeah, we want to look at
that. And as usual, if we want we want to hear from you,
we want you to kind of join this conversation as well. So I'm
going to hand over to send you because I connect, I can never remember
if you want to join the conversation or sending your comments, Yeah, sending
your comments to do You can text us to triple A at a triple two
eight or and write hope and then your message. Or you can also contact
us as a studio at a Inventors Radio London studio at Inventors Radio that London.
And I'm tasking a question chin out there before we break, and maybe
our listeners and hopefully our listeners not maybe hopefully our listeners can respond. The
question is why is there a reluctance for men to seek support again. Yeah,
d I see a change, and I'm gonna ask obviously our guest panelists
to talk on that. I'm Petro. I'm sure you're going to chime in
as definitely. The song is Kirk Franklin nine one. Hello. Hey,
it's meet Kirk. I need to speak to Bishop sure, hold on,
Hello, Hey, I got some stuff I need to talk to you about.
Lately, Pastor. I've been having all these crazy kind of dreams.
It's hard to sleep, I can't eat, scary enough. I know what
you mean. I mean, ever since that Tuesday, seemed like life is
getting real strained, shot shooting, anthrax, terrorist attacks, and I ain't
even trying to get on a plane. I feel it. And you know
when I try to pray that his voice tell him it. God's not real,
you know, let's just see him a man. Yeah, but you
ain't feeling me, no, son, I know just how you feel.
See, just because I preach and teach, don't let or don't get scared
sometimes you know whatever, but you t d Jake, But then I don't
make mistake. Wealth and little teams on my mind when you're smiling is gone.
Yeah, but I feel full your heart is giving. I will see
what you don't know my mind. I'm so sick and tired of all just
got laid off and then pop it off the rent stud So tell me what
I gotta get. We'll see. Trials come to make you, storms won't
last. How can I trust God and all this method or See? That's
a reason for a song. See wherever you're go, that's one thing you
got to know. God's right that by your side. So thank you for
calling. It's always good to hear from you. Yeah, but I gotta
go now waiting. I have another call online too, but I ain't through.
Say. I'm sick and tired of all these trucks folk talking about stuff
ain't as bad as the scenes. See y'all don't feel my pain. I
don't hear bain. I don't say how you want to cover of Time magazines.
See, but you're looking at it now and you don't know how I
struggled and what I've been through. Yeah, whatever, Now you cross the
line. I'm just speaking my mouth, okay, So let me speak mine
too. I've had some mountains, I've seen some ballas. I've even had
to cry sometime back when I lost my mother or your mother and my mother.
I'm sorry, No, son is fine. See life is full of
ups and bounds, but gods hit the storm woe last month. How'd you
make it through? Boy? I thought you knew it was mother telling stry
when smiles, he'll go alone. Although your heartest heaven gone to shiver,
y'all don't feel mine And I'm getting very thick and tired of all the just
got laid off in the top of off the rent. Dude, go tell
me that you'll what I gotta get now, tell your trials come to me
and those those storms. How can I prove God in the mids of all
that met? See that's a reason for this song. Wherever you go from
you got to know. Course care to tell you, but thank you pastor
anytime I think I can make it now, just tell me what I need
to do. Just pray this prayer with me, say Father, fin forgiven
forgetting he sorry, Please help me. I love you, I love and
beat you, hold me, hold me jee my hearty, So please take
me controls right now, right now now. Now you ain't smile, and
even when you feel so alone from your heartest heaven, even in the middle
of all of ya, and when you're chicken tied of all the rains,
remember that the rainbow last always. And in Christ Jesus, you got so
much the game to see your trials come to make it, and the storms
won't remember the temporary. See that's a reason for the song. Wherever you
go, that something you've got to No Goddess still he told me to tell
me. Oh yeah, thank you. Welcome back to Talking Point on The
Mentors Radio London. That was nine one one by Kurt Franklin. We want
to thank you. We want to thank Stephen Fuller for joining us today as
we talk about brotherhood and we just want to get some feedback from him for
those that listened to us last week. He was actually the gentleman that was
interviewed by Zenia and oh by Angela. It was Angela. Yeah, I'm
sorry, I always get that mistaken, but yeah, he was interviewed by
Angelin. He has some really good points and it was a powerful testimony where
he talked about about fatherhood and stuff and I really appreciated what he was talking
about and some of the things that men don't want to talk about in today's
society. I really did appreciate how I'm transparent. He was, So we'll
pass it on to Stephen. Now would you like to introduce yourself and tell
us a little bit about yourself? Yeah? So um as you got my
money steamer um for badam church. Let me ship you there even for a
while though, But that and Angelo forgat Now outside of church and stuff,
um in studying. So um, I'll take it back to twenty fourteen.
So basically I went to Elkwood so I think to be a bustar and it
was a great experience. Wow, welcome was able to finish as you can
imagine, it was very hung down by it wasn't really it wasn't easy to
do with. I think the experience opened up my eyes to a lot of
different things. So during that time in my life, I just saw my
lap as just being acousta. That's all I saw. So when that failed,
I just fall sot of what Now Basically, whilst I start there,
I just saw some few things and I start to realize that there's more to
minissue than being being a pastor, and that's where that inspiration to become a
counselor became more prominent. So every time I preach. I speak to individuals
after sermons and I'll realize that there's a lot of issues that the members are
facing, and my sermons that I preached, I didn't think it was justice
to some of the the charms and situations that people are going through. So
inspire me to want to be more, to be more good to deal with
those situations or start studying counseling, and so far I'm one level four on
a couple of more gear to finish, but that's my main inspiration to be
to be a counselor um As you can imagine the pressures of being a husband,
being a farmer, it's quite heavy. So during that period I study
gass engineering as well, just basically yeah, makes some money, provide and
just do my best to support my family. And it's just funny how things
work because even though I was doing it, I finished and I tried to
pursue it as it works out accordingly. But I've learned that sometimes these setbacks
just kind of forget on an opportunity for me to see the bigger picture.
And at the moment, I'm just focusing on my passions, aspirations, finishing
my studies and just working from people trying to get through issues or comblems that
they're facing. So that's in a natural that's in the natural. You said
you want to awkward and what year I was there? Twenty fourteen to twenty
fifteen, sixteen? Okay, all right, that spy sometimes awkward. When
I was younger. My father was from Elkwood and my mother's Bible worker,
and that's where they met, actually was at Elkwood. They get married at
the chapel and a lot. I can't remember when, but years ago.
All right, good, Yeah, it was a good place. Um,
you said you also became a counselor, so do you are you just counseling
for the youth or do you go just a counselor yeah, just general counselance
from studying. Okay, haven't been figuring out my niche in terms of when
will be young people family, So I'm just focusing on just your studying,
finishing and get a qualification and seeing how good lead to that perspect Stephen,
Can I put you on the spot a little bit and ask h why did
pastoring not work out? What what change your mind there or what set you
in the next direction? Um, I'm honest, simple answers. Just financis
simple. Okay, didn't work out. I didn't have the money too to
clear and that's just simple. It's hard to do with what I think doing
a setback, I think I showed me that there's a lot of different ways
to minister. Yeah, and you said it. I mean there's a saying,
let's say a setback, so opportunities or setups regard to show up isn't
met and where he has you is ultimately where he wants you to be.
So of course I wish you are the very best with that. Thank you
so much for sure. Ye Angela, Yeah, you just look like you're
busting so let me just go to you. I'm just thinking, you know,
it's interesting how sometimes where when we think about ministry and what we're going
to do, it's really interesting actually has sometimes we could not to have kind
of a certain pathway because if that's the anything. So it's been interesting to
hear the same actually realization that there is lots of different ways to minister and
you know you're calling maybe in something very different. Now, as Stevens said,
I've not se him for a long time. He's a member of Allum
Stephen from when he was very young to where he is now Steven. You
know, so my experience of Stephen being a really accomplished speaker, you know,
passionate on five for Christ everything else. So it's very interesting, you
know, for you wanted to go that path then actually seeing something else because
one of the things I like about you're very relatable and you'll have a really
good way of connecting with people. You know, you're a great speaker.
Um, you know, have lots of you know, really good points and
really good insights with the raceball. So I think you know, you shifting
sort of truck as it were, to somewhere else. M. Yeah,
you know, I'm sure God's gonna do a great thing. So. Um,
So we're talking about brotherhood today, and I guess I've kind of wanted
you know, you're obviously looking around with you kind of talked to siblings over
last kind of a couple of months really and look at those connections. Um,
and I invited yourself and your brother and Andrew's about saying one of your
other brothers there because you were one of many of the five brothers. Yeah
strong mom? What what what which one? All? Right? Whatever?
Are you oldest, middle number four, okay, and your number five year
okay, So tell us a little bit about what it's like that I don't
have a brother, so I don't know what this like type of brother.
I had friends who had brothers, and I always kind of wanted to just
always wanted to an older brother. And if my friends had older brothers,
I'm like, yeah, they're my older brother too. You know. Obviously
male friends are like a class them as my kind of brothers. But what's
it like having four brothers brother as well? Want this conversation with you,
Josh oportunity story too much. It's a fun experience. I've enjoyed that.
I think pois anger. People are fascinated by the fact that I had four
problems that they didn't believe it, And I think there's a sense of tract
and a sense of privilege there. I've got three older brothers, and I've
got Andrew results growing upable was proud to have them. It was very very
interesting experience. As I said, there's a lot of things I can see
growing up, these four five of us together in one room, and at
the surface time I appeared to be that's a bit crazy. But as brothers,
there was no issue because it was just jokes, Huma, just stories.
It was just fun every single day, so I didn't see it.
I just anything, and they gative. I was always happy to know that
I had older brothers too to be the form, especially even I was both
school. I think when I went to school, of course they recognized me
as Anthony's brother or Genius or Sidon's brother. There's a level of respect that
they even earned, if that makes sense, because then you my older brothers
and I guess what we're saying for Andrews or when Andrew came to second year
of school. I think Andrew tried to milk it a bit because Andrew's very
very trump Winson, so the Holy kids would obviously try to get back at
him, and He's like, no, I've got four older brothers and everyone
just needs to be lack at old Stephen. So I think it was interesting,
it was fun. It was I can't look at anything they gave up
by it for once. I just saw that as I've deminished to have three
older brothers, and Andrew with me. The thing is that my three older
brothers they're close in age, so I think it's just a year apart between
the three and then you've got black four or five year gap unless meet and
then Andrew. I mean Andrew obviously two years apart. So our jungle brothers.
We Reckon asked that there's brown trees, so they are older. They
can do this, they can go places. And I think we understood that.
But I think I yearned too to be a part of them, Like
it was kind of annoying that there was this kind of divide. Aware you
got the older three and then he got made in Aunty and it didn't cause
any problems. But I think in my heart I just wanted to be more
involved and be more connected. And I think I'm subconsciously I'm going to be
honest there As a brother, I kind of I went to counsel when I
was younger, and my counselor asked me a qussure. She said to me,
where do I fit in in terms of my brothers? How I describe
my dynamics? And the pressure itself was very, very thought walking. I
didn't know how to answer you. But when I was answering the question of
what some emotion, but they didn't know I was there, if that makes
sense. And as a brother, I think I probas to know that I'm
dear. I think Andrew will know that if when you think it's going on,
they call me and vis a versa, that we've got each other's back.
I know that I can call answer you and I'll just listen. Give
me some advice, give me some wisdom, Simon and Junior, that we
all have a relationship where we're able to interact and able to speak. But
at the same time, I've always yearned to be more of a what's the
word presence, if that makes sense, because I think when they were older,
I would just see, we're just seeing that the younger brother soul kind
of just like brushed aside. So I think for me growing up, I
just had this desire to want to be involved, and outside of that,
I just think it was an amazing experience. I think that I've been privileged
to have. Yeah, so there any thing that's come out of that.
You canot say any questions or I don't mind. So I had one quick
question. So you said, oh, the three other brothers were older,
and then it was like a four, four or five year gap and then
you then you came on then your younger brother. So that because like you
said there was ahead they left the house, So was it was it a
point where you was almost like the head brother in a sense, like when
you was in the house like once it once the three brothers left. Will
you like the almost consider like the older brother. Yeah, you can say
that, yeah, because I think there's a lot of times and my parents
went at home now were my older brothers. So just me and Andrew Andrew
will off about it now, but just constant chaos that will be the older
brother and Andrew will be challenging about for if that makes sense. So if
you find will be obviously not getting one, but in love, don't there
be times when my mom will come home and she did door broken, that
block shouted, you would just literally just not getting long. I'm a mom.
She didn't know how to handle it. She don't know, but I
don't. I don't person don't even liking. But I just think he was
being being probs just grown together. She's learning, And I think when we
got older, we began to mature and actually four more strong ones together.
A couple of weeks ago we had um Alison was it Alison or Dorothy?
And she made a really good point to me because I have siblings, and
they siblings fight. You guys, brothers are gonna fight. Sister brother and
you guys are gonna fight. But she made a very good point which I've
been trying, and that was, um, when the s when you guys
are fighting, don't don't intervene. Let you all figure it out long as
no harm coming to you both, like you're not physically harming each other.
And I mean, I know you said you broke some things, but like
to just let you figure it out, because sometimes as parents we were just
so quick to jump in and be like stop or don't do that. But
and because I think you're gonna fight, because that's just a sibling thing,
that's a brother thing. And I think by you're doing that, like you
said, I believe it would make you guys stronger in the in the long
run. Because you don't remember those You probably sit back and laugh at some
of those things that you you know, I remember when you broke this.
Why did you break that? That was really dumb of you to break that,
like you know, Like so, I think it just builds that bond
as we're talking about with brotherhood. I just I'm just amazed it's your mom.
I mean, I would love to meet her. She's got to be
a because yeah, because you have five boys. Oh my goodness, I've
got water. And I tell you boys are easy though, right, maybe
because I'm a guy to me that easy. My boys, My boys are,
My boys are cool. There are times when the boys, you know,
they're coming into their own tests junior. Now then you got the girls,
who you know, they come into their own as well. So I
think it's different phases and girls come and different children. But you don't realize
girls come sooner. Possibly, no, no, not possibly they come So
I'm living proof. Okay, my thirteen year old thinks she always tells my
fifteen year old I'm the boss of you. She you know, she thinks
she's the oldest. So they come in faster. So it's a lot,
you know. But Stephen, you were talking about the the the gap in
age between your oldest older brothers and yourself. Um, do you think that
that impacts of the relationship so much so that you may not even recommend that
or you think that there might be a if you're talking about brotherhood, do
you think that there would be a difference in connecting between ages. Do do
you think that like people or men need to be able similar same age to
be able to connect or you think you can bridge that that gap. I
don't think age is really your issue of just saying it was just a natural
thing to happen in a sense where because they were older, n actually they
will have more privileges or possibility don't make sense. But I think when we
got older, I was able to be intentional to actually form a relationship,
if that makes sense heard the story. Actually, remember I was in my
first major relationship with a girl. These are going you can going okay,
but then at the same time, full to myself, it's a really what
I want to do basically, so you're thinking about it, just split enough
basically. And I remember I was house and we were talking about the situation,
and I was clearing my mind that I wanted to basically very up and
you started crying, and we think for the first time, this was my
first major relationship, and I kind of felt black saying for her an emotional
sort of thing. And I remember I called an older brother and Paul Junior,
and I told him the situation. I don't think of this dame on
life. He said to him, are you sure that you don't want to
do this and said to him, I'm pretty sure. And he said to
me, even though she's crying to even sometimes girls put on crooked outis when
he said that started. My eyes literally were open for the first time.
It's like I was very very naive. I didn't really think I was even
possible. Don't makes sense, And it was just sincere I'm not saying she
wasn't, Branson said, but just the thought of the fact that I could
be getting played here, I could be getting literally I find experience to be
very very needed for me because older brothers, he's experienced more than I am,
is going through the situations. So just that conversation. But the first
time I made me wiser. It's a laugh, and that situations kind of
happened, but just being more careful and just trying to think and have an
older brother in that respect, it was it was a blessed because they've obviously
lived life. They're going through situations and problems and whoever it may be solved.
Then being able to talk to me and give the advice, you know,
a second tim of experience. So oh that makes sense. Yeah,
and you've you've exactly pointed out what what the benefits are of having different ages
bond and and and the link together is that you can tap into the wisdom
um of you know, the elders sort of stake and that's yeah, m
crocodile ty is you do it all the time. Oh you have. It's
definitely a possible, not even a possibility, not even a possibility more than
a fist angeles. You know, you know, I don't you know You're
more than crocodile tears. Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's just my opinion
the things that you kind of you know, what you've been able to have,
especially having older brothers, Um, what have been the key soup?
It's qualities or things that you have gleaned or learned from your brothers. And
you know, as we said that the age is maybe not necessarily made a
difference. It's just different insights into different areas, different things. But would
have been some of the key things that you said, right, Okay,
because I have four brothers, I've specifically things because I guess what I'm think
going to go on too is how does that equate to otherhood in general?
And men connected with men, other men and love life. Yeah, So
I think I've been able to pick the positive and LEGI if that makes sense.
For example, all the brothers still be the first to admit that give
me some mistakes, but they've been gone bore enough to allow me into over
mistakes and allow me to to listen. We have the open a short in
certain areas, so I'm able to to see their own example, I thought,
can happen if you decail things or if you all a certain both,
if that needs sense. So I've been able to get an insight just based
on urbable communication, just being honest, being open. She's talking about life,
and you're talking about whether they've been the setbacks even the good things.
So for example, anteing you for example, or major inspiration in terms of
my decision to you to be um or past it in the first place.
Just seeing his ambition, seeing his determination um a lot wasn't easy for able
to to do at that time as well. But I'm just seeing him do
it just gave me a sentive if you can do it, then of course
I mean it'll do the same. So I've just been able to take the
kid in the bad or not see the bad as anything bad, but to
see it as I listen, see it as something that's happened, but just
know fully and be able to yeah, try and see your own life,
I think as I'm probably I think one of the most earning things for me,
if I've been honestly, it's it's being vulnerable, just being honest about
your feelings and about what hasn't gone right and the misstates and stuff. To
be able to get to that point, I think it's very very difficult because
if if it's going to work effectively and any to be able to present myself
was very very vulnerable, and it's honest. This is why I am.
This is in my mind, is this is where I'm struggling. And I
think that as a brother there needs to be a level of openness and all
that there's a level of fear and all that men naturally have a fair to
to open up to delve. I think we have this in the desire to
just get things done, to just meet one to just take our stops up
and just keep it moving, if that makes sense. But in terms of
being a brotherated, I think even relation to being a farmer, I'm learning
that I can't be a father while to support uple farms, if that makes
sense covers. I just think it's very, very difficult sometimes and the moments
that I find hard, it would be good for me to connect with Farcus.
You're home for the same thing, which totaly makes sense because it's if
I'm by myself, it means that I'm just having this manself. You know
what, it's hard work. Then you just keep on cracking on and I
can do that. But internally things were just going up and it will come
out in different ways. So I think for me in terms of being a
brother and just brought it. In general, I think one of the key
components is the willingness to be honest and show yourself and let yourself be seen.
And even though I'm trying to be that person, there's times when they're
still find it difficult because sometimes it's just hard to present yourself as naked and
raw. This is your young, this is why young, this is what
I'm going through, this is my shovels. It's not easy, but someone's
gonna be willing to to make the first step, and yeah, just be
open and just show yourself and then yourself be seen. That's gonna be my
my one of my thoughts because, like we said, you had the interview
last week, you was really talking about that how you had you had to
find yourself and you had to let God lead you. And I for me
personally, I know, like I believe in just being transparent and being truthful
and just putting it out there, even when you know it may hurt somebody.
Um do you But I find sometimes because the society or the world it's
not ready for men to be so forthcoming? Do you find it sometimes to
be difficult when your dealings with your brothers or with anybody in your family and
that or in your brotherhood, in your in your in your social network,
like because like they know you, but it still doesn't mean that they accept
it. Sometimes like they still think you maybe maybe a little extra or maybe
you're you know you can you can pull back a little bit as an even
though about more problems and to a degree you have a little relationship. I
know that it could be more. And I know that you don't believe know
the full extent as to when my life is and I think it is hard.
It's hard to given to my own brothers two hundreds an exceptional books.
I think naturally where closer in age and we've always been again us so be
easy for me to see to and you listen having a bad day to day
or this has got long today, But in general, yeah, it's definitely
you hard to open up and be honest to the bar in reality a way
you are. I think for me as a person, very very calm,
temperate minutes. So I've got four brothers. As you get suffer, then
all of us have different dynamics. And I'm also if you've been to church
before and there's a discussion for a y and you've got the deacon with the
mind going on around to see anybody's got a point to share. Seeing my
house there nod can going around to make sure that point. So being hurt
that makes sense. Lets unless you have that mindset to just get in there,
you won't really get hurt. And I wasn't a person to basically get
in there. I was the person that would wait to put the silence,
But then the silence will come, someone else will get the first. There
would just be a cycle. So for a long time I always had this
mandset where I didn't before I had a voice, I didn't really feel like
I had I don't know an opportunity to to speak or to share, and
I think subconsciously definitely didn't impact how I treated my RELATIONSHIPIP of the men.
But I didn't really feel like I had an opinion or I had like a
I had thinks to say, and as felt like I was invisible, so
to speak. I didn't really feel like I didn't feel the contribute, if
that makes sense. Because I've got an older obviously, I've been able to
work on some things or to counsel and just work on myself and become aware
of certain stuff, which is kid. But for a long time about strugle
with that, A struggle with believing that what I've got says I'm poor.
I didn't always believe that, which is why from Handela might Tony, she
might say, you're on the surface, Steven a pass to be quiet person.
That label literally gets from around all the time. Stephen Squire, Stephens
this and certain extent that may be true. Well, deep down I've got
a lot of things to say. Does that makes sense? Just that I
wasn't given an opportunity to really delve an express and be myself. So I
struggled that a lot. Because things are just building up, and I didn't
know how to communicate or to express what's going from soul. Definitely hard me
personal. For me, a person that's quiet is not a bad thing.
I mean, I know you're talking about in the sense of you wasn't allowed,
but also being quiet, I find people are quiet went out. When
you're quiet, you're more observant. Yeah yeah, and so you're paying more
attention. And then you only you speak, you get more get you're hurt
better because when you speak, then people listen because they you know, you
don't always like somebody's just always talking. You kind of you kind of tune
them out after a while if they just keep talking and talking and talking and
talking, you know, but when they when they quiet, but they speak,
when they the impact is much better. It's much stronger, it's much
more accepted when you know. So I think quiet it is not that bad
of a thing. It's just how you utilize it. But I understand what
we was talking about, Like you was you felt like you wasn't able to
express the way you wanted to sometimes, so you just express it. I
never heard of that way before. I make sense. I just sweet being
quiet something negative? Oh no, see to me. To me, I
always thought I was thought it was positive. See, that's that's what I'm
saying as motherhood as men, you know, I honestly I always thought because
I'm quiet, I'm actually I like to talk, but I'm quiet. But
I observe, so I'm always white. I could I'm watching things unravel.
Growing up in the church, and I've been to many church has been the
big church of small churches, and I guess I just got that from my
mom and my father, just always observing and just watching other folks. And
then you can kind of not saying I'm always right, because I'm not perfect,
so I'm not always right, but you could just kind of get a
feel like okay, you know, yeah, you know, you could get
that feel of each person. So I think quiet is a good thing.
I would never think of it. I would. I would never want you
to think of it as being negative. Look at it as a positive,
because because that's you know. And interestingly, I think that maybe something I
would say from an observation kind of seeing your brothers and the dynamics and drinking
kind of a ministry, I think actually saying it's different, maybe you have
different expectations of people. But if you're perceptionally you are very quiet, I
think then when you speak and incredibly powerful, I think that's as impactful of
others who maybe more you know, upbeat or I'm gonna say not your dynamics.
It's not a question of that. Maybe I can't get the right way
to describe that. But actually you have such deep insight that you're just like
whoa okay, okay, which I think makes you incredibly relatable. Like I
said before, So it's an interesting yeah, because actually, as ed you's
saying that, I was thinking, yeah, that's so true, that's so
true. But again, but you know what's really what was really nice there?
That's and again this is about connection. It's about how you interact with
each other. It's a support and actually can give different insights people, the
lives of other men and stuff. But sometimes a point on as you were
saying, in terms of with your brothers, and maybe this is sometimes you
know it talked about being vulnerable and sometimes a fear of being open and honest.
Do you think there's a level of competition as it were, and maybe
within you know, you've got four brothers and more buying you for a place
as it were, and maybe doing similar things with different things, and as
much as it may work with each other, for instance, you may want
to do different things. And do you think that's maybe an issue that men
symptoms have because there is that competitive nature to be something, to be heard,
seen, et cetera, which might stop people from the well, that's
that's a good question. I think you'll say that two big yeah. I
think. I think as men, there's natural don't no comparison to that work,
but sometimes we comparisons to other men that make sense. We want to
be the best on what we do. So if someone's wants to level,
there's that natural desire to rise and to want to be beaver, which in
a healthy way is good. But if done in a way which compromises key
want your core, that's a different situation that makes sense. Like for example,
Andrew's very very dynamic, especially in the younger days, like Firetrucker just
fifth gear. Even when he speaks, it's just like it's in fifth gear.
I remember remember watching him in a sermon one time, and I remember
the congregation that were just like into the sermon and stuff like that, and
for the first time I thought to myself, maybe I've got a change my
style and change change my my approaches. That makes sense, and remember my
next sermon, try to do that. I tried to do my best invitation
of how Andrew speaks and if I'm honesty, it was a very, very
fringeriest thing I've ever done because I really looked at a moment. Now,
I can only be true to myself. I can only be through I am.
But I needed the experience to learn that. I needed to go through
that to be but to see, you know what, Steven likeybody's got there.
They think everybody's got there their gift, their their style, their different
gifts and abilities and so ab so just embrace pre war. I don't try
to be anybody else, you know what I mean? So thing for me
as a man, I think it's naturally sometimes because you're exposed to certain things,
to society, you see certain things. But I think I'm learning even
now it's a speak. I just got to embrace who I am and be
comfortable in that and to be okay with it and accept it. Like I
know a lot of times I might want people to accept who I am,
which is good, But I think first of all, I need to accept
myself and accept pym with my gifts and own what I'm able to do.
And for a long time I didn't really believe in myself, you know what
I mean. So I think for me, yeah, I think it's play
a part one hundred percent. Think for me, I just had to learn
to Rebattratsky. Yeah, just be who I am. And I think I'm
being Joi Young. That's the best that can be. I'm gonna being someone
else. It's just like it's just a shame, shame old, just like
everybody else, don't I answer your question? Well, yeah, yeah,
yeah it does. And you know it's a good example that you give.
Actually, and you know, I think more time you take to find out
who you are and you know, working too, you are and you can
be all the better. Um, I guess it's fun. We're gonna go
for We're gonna go for a music break. I guess what would you how
would you encourage other men to be able to do that? Um, we'll
do that? Well, okay, okay, how that thought? Yeah,
we're gonna we're gonna go to a break. Hold that thought, We're gonna
go to a break and they will come back. You just saying this Blessed
Me by Maverick Ciriy Maddick's Maverick City Music featuring Kurt Franklin. To bless Me,
Sleep, bless me, bless me got to me and this baby defeat
the years I mean to read. Bless me, bless me not just swummy,
But so everyone around me can't have everything they knowld the school, let
all the sous thats me gotta have everything they need to get. Bless me,
bless me out this game, defeat the years I need to read.
Don't bless me, bless me, gonna just swumming, But so everyone around
me can't have everything that hold the food, that all the soosters, you
can't get up everything call me alun the conversationine alone my enemy, swell favor
favor, gona just sleep. But so everyone around me can't have everything that
all the school, that all he sosts met, every God, allow the
conversation shine the enemy favors God, that your sunny, but so every water
we can't have everything. And who this counts me this week? Come snee
me got that just sunny, But so it ever be find around me can't
and all the storming all hoss. We got him again, and all the
sto all the hoss, the allosters men rush you and out of the band
the feet. We criticized her, mistaken me because by the promise keeping,
I've got it to ricord. I should live in my did because your home
was by my side. I didn't tell you he's a friend of mine.
Lift them up and lift them up, take it up, take it off.
Can't get up, take it off. He can't get up, take
it up. Yeah, telling him I never again, he's never about man.
Every child ever WI black. When I went black, w black women
man wop we black women were black women. Manly happen. We gotta have
that wed. We got har down, we got hampered down. We can't
everything were dad. We got the happer, red hammering a red happeras that's
see, bless me, bless me out to read, lets me less meet
me must away. So we're back at talking point with myself, Pajo,
Angela and Zenia, and I guess speaker Steven's follow We've been talking to our
brotherhood and Zenia had a question. So I'm my thought to Zenia so she
can ask the question that she actually asked at the beginning of the program.
I asked it at the top of the program and I'm asking it again because
our listeners quiet wanting to hear from your studio at Adventist Radio dot London or
text eight triple to eight hope, leave a space and then your answer,
perhaps why is there a reluctance for men to seek support? And we've touched
on it during the interview that we're having in the conversation we're having with Steven,
So thank you so much for sharing, Stephen and being so transparent and
honest. But one of the things that comes to mind is you mentioned competition
and the fact that you know sometimes men aren't willing to talk because then it's
seen as they're not good enough, or because they're competing and trying to better,
to be better than the other man. Then there's no there's no camaraderie,
there's no coming together. Um. But we've spoken about it time and
time again about the roles in society and how our men are often told to
man up, boys don't cry. Emotions are reserved for women and whims,
so our men don't often speak because of that, and um, not only
do they not cry, but yes, they don't they don't speak. And
for me, I think brotherhood is important because it allows you you spoke about
that, Stephen, the fact that you had your brothers and particular Andrew who
was closest to you, that you felt you could open up to, and
that in itself being such a blessing because so many men don't feel that they
can be honest and open with anyone. And that's so so important. And
you know that's I've got I've got Pedrol laughing in the background. I'm not
sure what he wants to say, but he's basting to say something, and
so hold on, Pedro, not quite done yet. And the fact that
sometimes men and hopefully we'll get to that as well as as we talk about
the significance of Christian brotherhood, but it's the ability for our men to find
proper support, because often they find support in the wrong things, whether it's
sex or drugs or alcohol or or so many other false support systems that then
perpetuates the problem. So yes, we see the significance of having brotherhood,
and maybe in particular Christian brotherhood, because it provides that safe space for men
to be open. You know, competition aside weakness, it's not seen as
weakness. It's seen as strength to be able to open up and to be
honest and to be transparent and to say, you know what, I'm struggling
with something. And Steve, when you mentioned struggling with parenting and how it
was so important for you to find other men who are fathers to tap into
and speak with and understand the dynamics of it, and how much difference it
made for you in that journey. So yeah, the question is being sent
out to those of our listeners who want to chime in, if they've thought
of something different to what I have said, or if they want to echo
that. Why do our men fed you're coming to you're having I mean,
why is there reluctance for our men to speak? And Pedro's gonna do you
mind if I go first? This is something that we have been debating since
I met them, and I tried to explain to them it's just like me
trying to figure out a woman and have emotions. And like you said,
and I don't mean they're in a bad way, but met over the years
and it's worse now. Actually, it's really worse now because now men are
being the mess. What's the words um mask in Italy is not something that
is even taught anymore, has totally been taken away. But it's hard for
men to be truthful because when and I'm gonna talk from experience with my wife,
if I say if in the beginning of my marriage, when I say
something to her, she would just dismiss it. She would say, I'm
you're in your feelings. Oh you you know, you're just you know.
So you hear that. As a men, you hear that, just like
Stephen was saying how he took it as a negative. We had it as
a positive, but he took it as a negative of like where he is
being where he's silent, but he's not being listened to. Sometimes, you
know, as a man, as a male, we want just to be
heard. We want to be just taken seriously. If I say something to
my wife now and she doesn't listen to me, I said, I did
tell you that, what's going to happen? We just want we just want
to be heard. And then, you know, because it seems like whenever
we say something, we don't know what we're talking about. Oh, you
don't know what you're talking about. And so it's hard for men to open
up. When we try to open up, nobody listens. And then then
but there's just the problem. So we open up, we're not heard,
and then because we're trying to get up point across, we then come aggressive.
So then we get tagged as being overly agre or we get tagged as
being m rude or too blunt, and when not being that way, we
just want to get out. We just want to get our point across.
So yeah, it's gonna come out blunt sometimes because we've probably been saying that
point for five minutes or five times and nobody's been listening. So then the
sixth time it just comes out all of a sudden, you're hear it,
but you hear it in a sense of in a negative way. So I
just think, like from from I think for myself, like being as I'm
older though I'm about to be fifty, I have to learn that I just
have I just have to drown out that people are not always going to listen.
And to what Stephen was saying about um always, the way I look
at it in my life is that God, as long as God is happy
with my life, I really don't care what other people think of me.
And that's just me. I've gotten to that point where I just don't care.
You know. They say as you get older, you get more blunt,
and that's just I feel. I just don't care. If you don't
like me, you don't like me, because it's nothing I'm gonna do it's
going to change that. Nothing I say do is gonna make that difference.
I think men just have to understand that that no matter what is. You
know, they say you do one hundred things right, but the one thing
you do wrong that's everybody remembers. So you can't control that. So you
just have to just be who you are, be truthful, as Steven said,
be truthful to yourself, know who you are, and be honest with
yourself. If you can't be honest with yourself, you cannot be honest with
nobody else because if you can't forgive yourself, if you can't be honest with
yourself, you're not gonna be good to anybody else because you're just gonna always
be um talking or complaining or whining about something and saying I just said it.
But I mean in the sense of like you know, we we don't
we just want to be able to be heard. I ask before Stephen,
you can go to that or whether you agree or disagree. But your example
there was talking to your wife and her probably not listening. We're not paying
enough attention to it. I guess that's the only person I talk to that's
my best friend, because the dynamics today is is that the same if you
should talk man to man. I feel that there is there is a sense
there of not being heard, not being listened to amongst brothers or is that
what brothers? You're right? So I've tried talking to other brothers, but
I don't always get I find sometimes when I talk to other brothers, I
don't know if Steven just happens to you. I find sometimes when I talk
to other brothers, sometimes I must feel like I scare them, like I
can see fear in their face because I'm just too blunt because I don't and
I have to try to ease back. So I try to talk to them,
and they're just like, oh, he's too intense, Oh he's too
like, you know, aggressive, So they kind of ease back off of
me, and then they don't kind of talk to me anymore. You understand,
like they kind of like, uh, yeah, you know, yeah,
you stay over there, I stay over here you And then I think
sometimes brothers don't want to hear the truth. Okay, because that was you,
see you led me to that. I'm saying you're too blunt or too
honest because it's I don't know, I'm the same being blunt. I think
ye black Stephen, he's the guy. Because that's the challenge, isn't it.
Because we're talking about how man can support each other. If you can't,
I don't know, and I don't know. I don't know if I
can't. If I can't be true to my brother, who else can I
be true to? See, this is the problem. We don't want to
hear the truth. We don't want people to tell us what we need to
hear, not what we want to hear. But be careful though, because
that's why I'm trying to draw that line. There is no line being to
me being aggressive. It's not necessarily being truthful. No, you're right that
there is a there's a difference between the two, Okay, And if if
if you're saying men have pulled back because they thought you were too blunt,
I eat, in my mind aggressive, then it's not necessarily that it's what
you've said. It's probably how you said it if I understand what you and
I understand and I understand what you're saying. But see, the thing is,
I'm not I'm not gonna sing it. I'm not gonna sing it.
I'm not gonna sing it. I'm gonna just bluntly come out and say,
like it was all my mind. I'm just going to say it. And
this is the thing I always tell people, like because I've had people coming,
I've had guys come and talk to me and they've asked me a question
and then say, man, why do you respond that way? And I
say, well, you know me for these many years. You know that's
how I am. And I know I need. I know I can change
and be a little bit more because I actually have to learn that. Moving
here to the UK, I had to learn to be more what's the word,
not withdrawing. I just have to be more back pulled back a little
bit. Because when my first job I got fired from because the woman said
I was too aggressive because I would just say, get off your butts,
go do the work and then sit back down. So they didn't like that.
The UK folks don't like me saying it in that tone, so I
had to change my tone. So it's more like, if you don't mind,
could you please get up and go do your job and then you can
go back and sit, you know. So I had to learn. But
it still doesn't mean that Sometimes you just you just have to say it because
the truth. I would rather somebody tell me the truth than to beat around
the bush and tell me a life. But you're talking about if you think
about men's men's qualities and what they can be like, is that always is
that necessarily going to be the best thing. I want to bring in Andrew,
Andrew Stephen to see whether what you think of that, because yeah,
that's why I want. I want his opinion. But if you kind of
got other very strong characters or people feel like we shout out the more happy,
would you just end up knocking heads or how Yeah, because at the
end of the day, sometimes women are very good at talking, because you
could say that sometimes empathetic listening and me that treat are any more sense it
too, things that were happening from generalizing made the stereotype PA, So how
can we kind of get around that OVERTI is sticking on that. It was
in Marcami, and I think that's definitely right. I think there's a level
of writing what both said. But I think for me and this is what
I found person So I'm more inclined to speak to a woman than a month
you know, come out what I'm feeling in this aut because I know that
they're gonna have more of a listening or understanding where you're looking at the situation,
if that makes sense. So in my mind, I've made the intention
with effort though, to just speak to them, to open up up out
of things to other guys, because I think it's important. As you mentioned,
Angel, there's there are some characters out there and it's not it's not
a bad thing. Um, they're very dumbinant, so when you're being dominating
a conversation, you're not able to basically listen to what someone saying, if
that makes sense. So it please the purpose or if I'm saying it's the
situation, I think the way that thinks very simply, if I'm sharing myself,
it's just a man sort of just hearing me out and allow me to
land and allow me to speak what you gotta saying. Response is always going
to be bad. That it's fine because everybody's got an opinion about it,
whatever may be. The conversation has to be at a point where they're to
speaking, they know that they're being listening to you, and they know that
it's not just going to be like a discussion or back and forth. Spot
be a thing where someone's speaking but the apple person is actually trying to listen
and understand. If that I understand, it's not dead. Then for me
the first thing, that's where I shot down as the first I feel like
I'm not being on the spl as a man I call asshole that I just
literally got hold because the man I'm thinking, I'm gonna talk and express and
open up. If when I say, you know what I'm saying, I
know they get hearing me, but you know, really listening to what I'm
really saying some kind of defeat them. But I think for me, I
think Pedrol said a very good um I fact to basically train my mind not
to see everybody the same way, if that makes sense. It's a long
time. I used to basically feel like I had no confidence and speaking my
emotions to another man. But but I just felt like, generally speaking,
men don't have the pan with mindset to listen. For example, on my
counseling of course, ninety percent of the people on my course were obviously for
emales. There was only another gun at this game, and I feel as
men, there's a stortage of people getting into counseling, And for me,
that's why I'm passionate about it, because I just feel like you don't have
to be a counsel. I just think learning counseling skills to be just learning
how to listen, learning how to to not judge, learning how to basically
I just navigate through someone's emotions. I think that's not even about being a
counsel. It's just learning how to how to listen affectively, which is a
skill that everybody should have, men and women. Europe maybe, But I
think for me, on a personal note, I struggled with that because a
long time I had no confidence in speaking my my emotions. But then I'm
gonna share a story which I feel cannot helps. So I've brought a very
good friend of mine, very very good friend of mine, and I was
going through one of them phases. Well, I was oh cold, I
was going to asso, so I'm going to dream, I stee the phone
ringing, and I wasn't answer, and why I love this person because this
person you're gonna take it that personal. You'll just keep on harding me that.
So I just think it's to myself. Just let me me. So
eventually, after like a week or so, he pulled me again and I
think, you know what if I don't answer, I'm just gonna keep on
calling me. So they were just answered the phone in the same we say
and this this will ever change my life, you know, because he answer
the phone and he said to me, Stephen, and I'll be honest with
you. I'm gonna very very honest man, see you when I'll pull your
phone, Steve One, like there's a reason why I'm pulling you, and
you don't know that I actually needs you, I need or real help.
So you don't answer, Steven Man like it makes to be full but upset
one because you don't know what I'm actually dealing because we need his friends that
I know that I can speak to you, and then I can I can
talk to you someone you like. It burns me because I ain't gonn no
one else to turn. And when he said that, yeah, I couldn't
even could even say nothing. I just had to be hungbo and I have
to say, you know what, I hear what you're saying. I understand
that. And I appreciated his honesty to be honest about that, because if
the rules were reversed, which it has been, if I'm calling someone else's
phone and I'm getting air time, I'm gonna say the very passage because that
we decent. I'm't gonna be. I'm thinking, I've pose you. You
have a assing. I'll let he be. But the one time that happened
to me, I'm calling another good friend of mine and he's not asking his
phone, and I said to myself, so this is what falls leg So
in my mind now I'm thinking what do I do now? Because I was
actually very very hurt about it because, as my friend said to me,
I was calling him for a reason because I was going for a situation.
They need someone to talk to you. I'm calling him. It's not answering
in the week. Ain't hurt him, like you know what, I need
to say something. And the same approach that my film talking with me said,
you know what, let me try that with him, said problem,
and I'll be honest. You you know, I don't. I don't normally
do this, but that's what we cannot transparent, Like you're a good friend
of mine, and when I'm calling you like I need you because it's the
sample calling in my life, ware like I need your advice so or wherever
it is. So you're not ask him, I'm not kid. It hurts.
I'm gonna be keeping tom be honest. My eyes were kind of water
because it felt weird too as a man, be so about the fact that
we're making me feels I no, really have to be honest. It will
be easier for me to say that to them to a guilt from honest,
to talk about my feelings and whatever made me, But to say it to
another guy you're asking your phone. I think a way about that. That
was hard for me to actually say to it. I had to say it,
but if I didn't say it, the option would be a right.
I've told you you do your thing, I do my thing. And I
think it goes back to the brotherhet thing. It's a text that says that
we're to love the prophet and the reason why I think I took that process
because even though I took a person, I love my brother. So even
though I felt hurt about it, I love that I have for him to
basically still reach out was more than the personal slap that I felt. Exactly
makes sense. So I had to basically saying, you know what, broadly
symbol like, I need you need to kind of ask your phone because I
could be going through worlds or three. You man, you trying to say,
so you need to kind of get onto that. So I think being
honest, I think it sounds good and it sounds like a good idea,
but being honest to me means you have to actually be honest about what your
filmer and to be and to be fair. When I was going through it,
as I said it, I can literally feel the physical sensations in my
body because I felt weird telling another guy listen, yeah, you know asking
your phone I was supposed going on. But I'm glad I did it though,
because to me, that's a sound of growth, because once upon a
time of the foot, you know what, you know, asking your phone,
I'll do nothing like if you want to pull me, then cool,
but I know what it is. But if I'm I'm trying to love the
roblem with them, I'm trying to build a friendship and build like a level
of certain things. I need to be vulnerable and Shae watch sat on my
hot and it's more easy to do, but I think in doing it there's
a lot of benefits. So that's that's how I answer the question and answered
that's that's my Fawn's that last whether you're saying really reminds me of I think
it's Proverbs. Summary Proverbs it says a friend loves at all times, but
a brother is born for the time of adversity, because that's exactly that,
even sometimes when you need people, but it's your blood brother or a brother.
Yeah, difference AiZ with that. So yeah, so as you talk,
as you talk about that, and thank you for sharing that you know
and you know honestly and vulnerability. I think my questian when I was asking
before, was how can we encourage people to do that? Because it's clearly
not very easy. Um. But and obviously you know we're talking about also
talking about this in a Christian perspective as well. You know, how does
how can our brothers that I can't you know, how can brothers in Christ
being more supportive in each other to do those things that you're suggesting because it
is difficult, it is tricky, but when you need people, it's going
to do something. You need people to run around you, and sometimes it
is the brothers that you need someone like yourself. I think for me,
I'm sure about reading from examples. So I think if the men show me
being vulnerable and being I haven't got the right word to use, but this
depression when it come times, being needy and just being you know what,
I need to support, you know, kind of gives them the kind of
manage it that it's okay to be like that as your up or men being
like that, it's just going to strengthen that idea that men should just kind
of do the whole thing. So I think for me it's just simportant first
of all, that i'd be an example. That's what I wanted exam things
that Rob had, especially with nicational community. I can't just say it's not
happening or should be happening. I have to be an active example of that
so they can visibly see that when they see Stephen, Stephen is willing to
actually share himself to be vulnerable to say that at least to say it support
like it starts with me. Just showing that example to our young men.
He may feel like I don't, I don't get the point, if that
makes sense. Another thing I'll say, it's just too basically to share,
share why it's a good thing to to speak, an open up because I
think everybody handles things differently. But for my personal experience, it's never healthy,
it's never been good what I've been things inside. I think AMSL to
Angela or Daniel that mentioned that some sign men instead of talking the results of
other things to give them comfort, if that makes sense. And a person
that knows that you are where if I'm not speaking, then something close that
I'm doing to fill that word, if that makes sense. So it's kind
of trying to bring an awareness to young men about the negatives of being silent.
And I think it's normal to be silent. If i'ven't been taught how
to speak, then I can't I can't be upset if I'm as not speaking,
if it doesn't know how to speak, if it doesn't know how to
processes emotions. And that's so for me one of my personal projects at the
moment, I'm working on the certain principles of counseling, just paying together strategies
just to teach like that just men what that's in general, to teach people
how to deal with certain things, how to process their emotions, how to
sit sense stuff. I think a lot of young men don't have that kind
of educations and or how to process and do certain things. They don't know
how to how to speak, so I can't I can't judge a person,
but being quiet or being cold, or there's public tizement and adult fum church
is what we try to reach chapter a younger man and they've got one kind
of a coult older and they might ful bader by what if that person I've
ever been taught how to have a conversation and an emotional level company Blader,
It's just like it's just what it is. So I think for me it
needs to be a level of education in terms of those who know certain things,
just to teach people or young men how to basically have those difficult conversations.
How do our process what's bolling on? How do I even verbalize it?
When you think about certain guys, certain guys don't even say a yota
about what's s folling in there because they've never been never been in a situation
where they feel safe enough to do so if that makes sense for me,
are you making so much sense? It's support for me to be that example
and eat from the front. So that's why we're never I speech and I
say this before I make someone or something, because I think there's a balance
to this. So I realized this when I was younger and my early days
preaching that when I used to preach, if you're listening to really what I
say in my sermons, sometimes if you're listening carefully, you will hear some
of the pain coming out in what I'm saying, if that makes sense,
Because if I'm not dealing with it, it's gonna come out in different ways.
And I don't mean to actually do it intentionally, but because especially back
in the day, I didn't really have an opportunity to say anything. When
I found myself preaching in those early days, a lot of the pain and
a lot of the chiln I used to kind of creep right into the sermons.
And why so far is because people in the church always appreciate it,
the warness and the transparency and the openness. At the same time, I'd
be honest, I wasn't dealing with these things that I was speaking about,
I wasn't I wasn't processing, and I wasn't doing my homework and making sure
that the things that are speaking about and getting my own either. So I
think when I've got older, I realized that Stephen, you're doing a good
thing. Will be honest and open about whatever your life and soulful that's but
make sure that off the pulpit, we're taking care of yourself. And I
felt like I was very very imbalanced where I was trying to help people and
be given need to be, but neglecting my own self. So it told
me a long time to get to a point. You know, Steve,
don't use the passion, but just refocus it for now on yourself. It's
not being selfish, it's not being self saying. It's just making sure that
you are taking care of yourself and then you can eat people to have someone
else more effectively. So I think for me, it started myself. I've
got to be an example and I've gotta be what I need to be for
someone else. Yeah, putting the oxygen mask on fast. I say all
the time, I must sound like a stuck record, but it is what
you're told to do when there's a reason for it. Unless you are in
a good place, then you aren't able to help others because you both think
and that's what you're told to do in the aircraft, aren't you to put
the mask on the fast and then you can fit it on the child,
and then you can fit it on others. And that is so true.
I did have one question when you Stephen was saying about um talking to the
young folks, talking to people in general, and being vulnerable. What about
I always think about, like, I'm not trying to play the advocate,
but it may sound that way, but because in today's society, to the
young boys, they want to be hard. They try to be hard,
and then when you come and you're talking to them, they think that when
you show that vulnerability, that's the problem. You could sometimes come into that
you showed that vulnerability, you showed that soft aside, and they take that
for a weakness, so then they're not listening to you. So then you
have to like so it's like it's a balance of being a little vulnerable but
also showing strength at the same time, because if you showed if you if
you're too vulnerable, if you're too weak. Then, you know, it's
kind of like what they say, know your audience, then they they they
won't hear you anyway because they're gonna you know, they think you soft,
so they're not gonna listen. Because kids today act like we as an adult
didn't go up and we didn't have the same problems they had, or we
didn't do some of the things they did. They think we just poof.
And I've said that before. You know, we just poof, we're hair,
We're an adult. Sorry, Okay, well I'm actually actually like,
have you ever had to deal with something like that? Are yours? I
think there's been signs when as you mentioned, to know your audience, so
it's been sized when for example, and you speaking to young people in prison,
so as an example, you're speaking to prisoners. It's not the same
way that I approach for speaking to a convocation on the normal sabath day.
That makes sense. So I think for me in that situation, so about
making sure that wherever I'm saying, they can connect with if that makes sense,
because I think there's something in everybody that connects with something and what I'm
saying, I believe I have to believe that was able to give me something
that even though I'm not being in prison, I've not done certain of things.
But I have to believe that all of us have a common female life,
which is all of life. And I'm able to somehow say something nack
the next view of someone, then I cannot got them slack. I've got
their attention and then they're able to basically engage more. But you're right,
unless you have that taxed and ability to to balance it, then it's going
to be difficult to reach certain people. As you said, have a go
mandset where I'm not trying to be emotional and emotions don't work. I'm just
going to try to be this hard person and it's kind of difficult to break.
And the reason my own example, if it's taking me a long time
to get to a point that actually speak my emotions, what about someone else
You doesn't have the resources or the experiences that I have the harder So it's
just not having that mandset where it's got to be patient with people and understand
that everybody's a certain place. Yeah, but we're not even sounding like a
cliche or sounding to preachy. But I'm just learning that once we've just them,
I've got a spirit is able to sue how to give you that that
ability say? We need to say, I've been in church, I know,
I know the terms. Well. I think we need somehow that the
spirit is reading something that we need to be able to help people to yeah,
just break through slf things and to open up and speak. Stephen,
you um you mentioned in the conversation. We just had some very key points
and I just want to reiterate it if you'd like that you are intentional about
speaking to and being open with young men, though it may be difficult,
though culture may have sort of shut our young men up um or made them
think that emotion is a sign of weakness instead of instead of strength, that
you're intentional about doing it, you know, seeing people for where they're at,
um, seeing people for what they are, and just having the conversations
anyway and being open and being vulnerable. I think truth goes a long long
way when people see that you're legitimate, that you are being real and role.
It really connects with people because people are going through stuff and I find
for me personally, I take I accept the conversation more from someone who's been
where they say they've been and has been through it, rather than you preaching
at me. You've gone through it, you know how it is. You
know where I'm at, and you're able to connect with me better. And
I love that you're saying being intentional and also to show our young men the
value in brotherhood. That's a big point. That's a big point, you
know, to have someplace that you can be honest, to have someplace that
you can be open, and to be there and to have that conversation safely
so it's not going to come back on you. You're not gonna hear it
on the road, and people are not going to be ratting you out and
and sharing your secrets. This is a space where you can be open and
just say, hey, I'm dealing with this and I feel like I'm dealing
with it alone. And you'd be surprised the number of young men in the
room who have been but have been dealing with it and being silent about it.
And I'm really really passionate. Well, I'm raising a young man.
So if you hear the passion, that's where it comes from. Man.
I know I'm not a man, but I'm trying really hard to raise one,
and when I see the statistics, it scares me. You know,
it's really scary. Sixteen percent of suicides are from our men compared to six
for females. Twenty two point five percent of forty five to fifty four year
olds males. That's the suicide rate. Seventy four percent of all suicides in
the UK involve men, and suicide is the second biggest killer or cause of
death for young males. That's some scary stuff and it's important for me that
our young men understand that and understand that it doesn't have to be that way,
because there is so much healing in a real good conversation. There's so
much wisdom in a real good conversation. You know, Brothers learn from brothers,
Brothers inspire brothers. You know, Brothers bridge the gap for brothers who
don't have brothers. And I don't know if I'm rattling on, but this
is the kind of stuff that we need to share and make sure that our
young men know, and our older men too. Fifty four year olds,
forty five to fifty four year olds, twenty two percent of them feel lonely
rejected, you know, and they're struggling too, so if we're not educating
And you said that education is key. If we're not educating our men,
that conversation is key. That conversation is okay, that emotion is okay.
Speaking is okay, Crying is okay. I mean, there's a day was
my son was crying. He's gonna kill me for this. It was crying
because he I took him off the PlayStation and I was like, you two
groan and I was. I made sure I said it that way. I
didn't want to. I don't want to say you're you know, you're you're
a man or whatever, because I don't want to him to go away with
that impression. What I said was your two grown, big fifteen sixteen year
old cry for coming off of a PlayStation. But when when I stepped out
of the room, I thought, oh my gosh, he's still a baby.
I still got a baby here of my hands. But it's good to
see. I thought it was good to see, right or wrong, because
in today's generation, in in in today's society, our boys, our boys
who are trying to be men or men who are trying to be better man.
I shut down too often? Was he crying because you took him off
the PlayStation or was he crying because of what he did to get taken off
the PlayStation? He was He was in the middle of a game and he
was on the highest score ever when he came off and he told me the
story. You know, Oh god, he had me. He had me
almost crying myself. You know, he befriended someone, didn't get a chance
to connect with them. They were having the game of their lives, and
he was on the score, his best score ever. And there I was
just pull the plug. I didn't give him any time, but I had
been telling him for a long time to come off it and he wouldn't budge.
So I just had enough and I just went in a pool. I
pulled the plug out, and I said, he's taller than me. Yeah,
he said that too. You know, he's taller than me. He's
bigger than me, I mean. And I just see him call up and
cry, and I thought, what what what is this? But you know,
I tried not to. I tried to let him and to talk about
it and all that kind of good stuff, because again, it's it's important
for me that our men or young men and me raising a young man,
that he understands that it's okay. It's okay, and come talk to me
if you have to. And so after after Zenia's overhead destroying this young man's
PlayStation, she has about a new one because she pulled it out the plug.
You don't understand those things, electric boy, you could you could destroy
that PlayStation. Those things are expensive. I ain't pulling up. Look I'll
take the remote from him or something. I ain't pulling I ain't pulling the
plug out. I ain't doing that because you know, but we want to
get Uh, Steve, you had you and your brother were actually doing a
collaboration right on an event coming up. Would you like to tell us a
little bit about that as we're getting close to time. The concept is so
let should get towards young people. It could be people with in the educational
sets off because of young people. In terms of doing young people, you
are breaking so basically using our story of all tuns and just relating to people
in a career. Hey, what we're doing through what we've obviously have gone
through. We're breaking down our story and bringing out repeat constets and basically is
it as a way to educate and just teach don see what they have to
basically get through some diffic almost they may be experiencing. So don't be professionals
will becoming new yugustly season in their craft practitioners and so Befo'll be there to
um give talks, workshops still be a lot of your engagement stuff like that.
But the main thing is just basically, how do you get through breaking
point when you feel like you're out point where you learnt what to do,
how to process or it was going on? What he can we can practically
duty to get through it. We're just using our story in every relatable breaking
way. Yeah, I got the fly? Is that you and your brother?
Yea? You know I had to say something, but I'm sorry I
had to blow your blootle bit you know. Oh boy, yeah those I
remember those outphits back in those days. So could you tell us the time
same you can know what you say? Oh my god, that really is
me. I was gonna try to guess who was slow, But it sounds
like a really great concept. Why was it important to use your own stories?
And I guess you know took a bit about that, But in this
kind of context, what we're doing obviously working with it Why was that important?
Yeah, because I feel like in stories, especially in question stories,
is one of the most ahoys to get someone to connections and engage someone.
She used the life for what I'm saying and able to me. I'm about
chance of understanding and gaining a question don't make sense? People people see me
there's a normal question. Willing to share myself and talk about some of my
situations and challenges that I'm going through. They're able to see some of the
things that I've done to you overcome and I'm still learning and don't get twisted,
but they're able to see some of the growth and some of the things
that happened. Then gives them hop to know that. Yeah, I can
then a certainly that many sense. So I think to your stories are out
will think everybody connect with the story and just use So when is this happening
and how can people find out about it? Yeah? So I'm I want
to see you so far. Um once second, we want to twentieth about
August. I think it's the twenty in the twentieth pribe thirty to eight o'clock
for Andrew's instagent, you know with the link to the event. Right,
He's from there but these details. Yeah, yeah, do you want me
to share it, Stephen, I've got the flyer up. Yeah, okay,
So the email I've got is a Fuller at Andrew Fuller dot me.
So that's Fuller few double l e R so a Fuller at Andrew Fuller dot
me. The event is on the twentieth of August at five thirty to eight
o'clock and it will be at the Advent Center at thirty nine Brendon Street,
London, UM And it's the tickets. The tickets are fifteen pounds and fourteen
plus make sure you put that and it's gonna be a London. The event
center Instagram is this is Andrew Fuller. Yes, yeah, oh yeah,
perfect cool. That's sounds really good. Sounds really good. So I hope
that's that even when attended, and like you said, you're sharing your stories,
your brothers, and we'll be talking about in any importance of brother I
don't really, it's about making connections. Yeah, no, I was gonna
happen. I was gonna it always happens, always happens, and then you
go you want that's when you ask the question. At the end, I'm
like, Angela, what it's cool because it's good. You gotta we gotta
get it all in there now. He's in the hot seat. He knows
how it is. I know how this is because I'm like, I'm trying
to I'm trying to go to break. And then she asked the ques angel
really Angela. But that's fine no, because we need we need to get
those we need to get. He's given us a lot of good points.
So we're going to have your final thoughts. Well play use you want to?
Okay, selected this one U twenty three, so we should be able
to squeeze that in there. And then with our final thoughts, it's p
J. Morton. Don't let go? A great choice. I know it's
been so harden, you don't know what it all means. Mmm. But
don't you ever let it go? See there's a raising you are still standing,
atter you seeing mm, So don't you ever let go? Don't let
go, don't let go. Oh please just don't ever let go. You're
getting tired, and it feels like it's been going on for years. Oh
but don't you ever go. Nothing wrong with cry, there's no denying.
Let it out o your tears. Mmmm. But please just don't ever let
go, don't let go, don't let go? Oh, don't you ever
let go? Don't let go, don't let go? Oh, don't you
ever let go? Oh? So right, so as you're back now,
that was don't let Go by p J. Watson. Yeah, that was
was connuation by yourself. Stephen. Can I put you on the spot again
enough? Your connection to that song? Why? Why? It's just just
the words. I think when I first heard it, I think I was
going through some stuff and I think it just struck a chord. YEA favorite
single words, no, no any thing, don't you just keep on going?
Simple song, but the words are very very very powerful, and I
think when I heard it the first time, it just fotune my experience.
So yeah, very apt for today's program as well. Yeah. I really
enjoyed that it was acapella too, So I didn't expect that you so used
to music being you know, music having music. Indeed, so Angela you
Zenia who would like to go final thoughts first? Um? I can.
A lot has been said, a lot has been discussed, a lot of
useful conversation, and we will have it podcasted if you want to listen again.
Steven, thank you so much for joining us to our last conversation with
your Angela's last conversation only sort of hinted at what today would be like.
You were very open, very honest, and you shared some real stuff.
I wish you all the very best with your ministry as you continue. At
the quote that I found that I thought was so so good, It said
Matthew usin King in fact, we must live together as brothers or we perish
alone. And I thought that was so deep because it says to me what
brotherhood should be about. It is coming together and strengthen, meet each other
and progressing because there is power and purpose immunity, and that is what I
hope our listeners walk away with, particularly our men. Our young men are
boys that connected Adela, which segues into nicely what I was going to say,
obviously, and he wasn't able to make it empty day, but hopefully
he'll be able to join this another time. But shout out to him and
whether he's beginning with him this evening. But Steven, thank you so much
again. As Senya said, and what I loved and I get thank you
for being for sharing and being so open is about honestly vulnerability, and we
need to to connect. Will he can help someone to share with someone to
my best connections. Especially as to my first question, we are abother skeepers,
Yes we are because we're cool to do that. So yeah as well.
And my final though pretty pretty much that as men, as a as
a man, um, you have to take care of yourself first, as
Steven said, we got to. You got to take care of yourself and
be honest with yourself. And once you do that, then everything else falls
into place and you can be the father you need to be, be the
husband you need to be, be the God friend man you need to be,
which is always first before everything else because God is first, and then
the rest falls into place. Um. And then be willing to talk to
young men or talk to your kids and be honest and just we got we
got I think I said, there's a long time ago. I think in
a Halloween thing, you know, like where at war with the devil,
with our children and with ourselves and just just in our manhood and our brotherhood
where it war and we need to just we need to stand fast and um
really get just knuckle down and just get into the word and get God to
just lead us and everything that we do, because if we don't let God
lead us, then we like you I figure who said, but we would
never we just won't be right. In the long run. We're gonna be
just fooling people and fooling ourselves more than anything. So that would be my
final thought. So with the end of that, oh, well, you
know I'm going to do something. Stephen, would you be kind enough to
pray for us? Steve? I'm sorry, I said, Stephen. I'm
and Steve's first thankful this time Spence with a job about robinghood and what it
means. What's been said, which has been over Hoorking. It's been challenging,
but not the experience has been with us. So I'm asking a spirit
to help Post to apply the things that we'd like today. Help Post to
be intentional, to go about trying to make this a part of our experience.
Help Post to yes, stay humble and am I your spirit to be
the ultimate guide and what we do. Pay for any young man listening in
this conversation, Pay for what you can be him in a specially pro bide
for them, the right people to be there for them, allow them to
navigate through their situations. I want to prove everybody on the school. He
has facilitated this conversation. It's greatly to continue to guide them to be them,
just to help them to continue to use this platform. To of all
thank you. Before we leave, I just had a thought to come across
my head. I'm sorry, as you was praying, Um, as you
said earlier, we don't just because you're not a pastor. I mean,
you can't preach and just want for anybody out there just because you don't have
a I feel like we were talking about when you preach, what genuine saying
and about. I think it's the realness, Like you just come off as
really genuine, and I think that's that is a good thing to have and
a good thing to possess because we have pastors preaching sometimes and you know,
they got the MD and they got the pH d, but they're not they're
not reaching anybody with they're preaching because it's all technical. I think we need
to be as I said, we need to be more real with the people,
with people in general, and just transparent and just and just honest because
people people nowadays don't want a whole bunch of book textbook talk. They want
real life talk. They want to know what you're say. What you're going
through is what I'm going through. So I just want to, you know,
say that appreciate your men, and um definitely appreciate your testimony last week
and also coming on today and sharing with us, um. Everything. So
this is the end of talking Point, and I guess I did okay for
my first time on the board. So don't clap whatever, because that's like
a pity that's like a pity clop. That's like a pity clop, a
pity clop. You can't win, that's right. You can't win with me.
You're right, you can't win with me anyway. But um so,
actually after talking Point today, please stay tuned because we're gonna have a very
own zen Ya doing Saturday Night Praise, which she's gonna come on and play
a whole bunch of good music, dumping music, we get off, your
get off, your get off at your seat and danced music. So in
Jesus name, of course, in Jesus name, so please join us.
In a few minutes, you'll be back on your lovely voice now. And
as for now, it's good night from Zenia. Good night, Thank good
knife on page up all right and this is talking to play. Have a
good night, God bless Adventist Radio, London. Inspiration for the song