Welcome back to Raised by Giants. I'm writer Lee. We are live.
Welcome everyone in the chat, moderators and members out there, thanks for joining
in. We have a very special episode here for you guys today, the
very first Stargate roundtable discussion, our reunion of sorts with official personnel from the
DA Stargate Remote Viewing program. They've all been on the show multiple times.
And first up, we have the first remove viewer from the Stargate project that
I first spoke to you with on my show, who worked for over thirty
two years for the intelligence community in Washington, DC. The Defense Intelligence Agency
hired her in nineteen eighty six to participate in the Stargate Psychic Phenomenon program.
Angela Ford, Welcome back to the show. How are you, Thank you,
Thank you for having me back. How are you. I'm doing great.
I'm really excited about this conversation we're getting ready to have. And next
up, we have retired Sergeant first class who served in the United States Army
and was and is a founding member of the International Remote Viewing Association. He
served as a trainer in the United States Army Remote Viewing Unit from nineteen eighty
four to nineteen ninety two and who the movie The Manhisteric Goes is based off
of Limb Buchanan. Welcome back to the show. How are you doing,
my friend? Great? Thank you very much and thank you for inviting me,
especially with this with this group. I'm I'm very happy to be here
with Angela and Day and very impressively are you? So are you? And
next up, last but not least, we have the director of the Stargate
Project, the government program for researching applications of remote viewing and aspect of extra
century perception. And not only was he the director, but he actually coined
the name Stargate to symbolize the innovative effort, well of expiration and expanded range
of human potential. Dale Graff, Welcome back to the show. How are
you doing, my friend? Hey listen, I'm great, Yeah, thank
you very much for inviting me back, and particularly to be connected with the
Angela and Lynn. This is always like to have staff me an amazing reunion
and righty gay attention. Okay, so thanks for bringing us yet, no
problem and it's a fantastic panel of guests here. Incredible bringing you all here
together. I feel very honored now quickly, Dale, can you verify for
the audience Angelo and Lynn's participation in the unit, not that it needs to
be verified, but for the sake of the audience, both Angela and Lynn
were in the unit when you were there as the director of the program.
Correct. Oh, oh, absolutely, In fact, they were there even
before I moved up into that group to assume the group responsibilities. Definitely,
they were there Christ even before I robbed on the scene at Fort Meade.
I had been down at the home office of d IA and Washington, DC
before that happened. But no question they were up there and Angelo, I
think from nineteen eighty six. Lynn, I might have even been also earlier,
Lincoln probably feeling in antation that better than I can. Oh yeah,
live lived in and of course Lynn was in there for a while. I
came back a little later after another tour, so it was like a double
tour for him. So absolutely these are long term members of the Stargate unit.
I think, Lynden, you were there when I came in so and
I think did you come the second time around nineteen eighty five? Oh no,
I was there one time, always there twice, and Mill was there
twice. So what year did you come in because I think I came in
after you. Yeah, I came in in eighty four, eighty four,
early eighty four. Yeah, I came in in eighty six. But you
were the but you were I came in right after you. Like in other
words, they picked you and then I came in right Huh. I thought
it was eighty four or eighty five. Yeah. Now, Angela and Lynn,
you can both verify again, not that it needs to be done,
but that Dell Graph was the director of the Stargate remove viewing program at Fort
Meat. Correct, absolutely, yes, Now, Dell, what was if
you can think back, what was Angela known for within the remove viewing unit
at Fort me Was she accurate with her technique by what you can remember as
a removiewer? Well, of course, by the time, even before I
was assigned to the unit full time, I would travel to the unit with
a different cash and coordinate that and look at the usults, and of course
I was quite impressed by the data issues even before I got there. And
then of course there were times during my tenure when we had some projects.
Everybody was quite quite amazing in a way, So of course I can verify
that easily. What about Lynn? What was he known for within the unit
and was he accurate with his abilities to remove you as well? Oh?
Of course yeah, and Lind did a lot of instruc and coordinating and helping
people develop their own abilities. So yeah, And at time I worked with
him directly, the information was really really standing and even sometimes when the task
were not exactly clear, he seemed to come up with information that added clarity
to that. And I can remember times when he actually came to me afterwards.
Is it even not doing a formal tasking with impressions of something that he
came up with after the task that doesn't turn out to be also verifiable?
Now, for my understanding and speaking with you guys and speaking with other participants
in the Stargate project, this was a very small group of people in the
unit, with only about it. Roughly around twenty people were ever a part
of this unit since its inception in seventy nine, through all of the shuffling
around between Army Intelligence and the DA and the name changes throughout the years,
only twenty people were ever involved is incredible. Maybe only ten to fifteen people
at one time were there, possibly even less, And with that being said,
such a small unit, there seems to be a lot of animosity between
the people that were a part of the unit. Now, But were you
guys close with each other then, and did everyone get along within the unit
at that time? I always like, go ahead, angel Yeah, I
always got along with Yeah. I always got along with Lynn. I used
to sit beside you, right, yeah, one time I sat beside you.
The animosity they showed that afterwards was basically because of the one person who
kept stirring things there and trying to make it look like we were all against
each other and actually ended up we were all against him because he up and
uh, and so that's where the whole thing, the animosity came from,
the inn it. I replaced Joe mcmonical, who's still a very good friend
all uh, the others very good friends. And I took over the database,
and let me say one thing that I don't think I've ever said before.
In the database, I was looking at the work that people did.
Usually one of the highest accuracy ratings was Angela Angela delapi Or at the time,
but she had just amazingly high accuracy, and that was fantastic. Now,
were you getting this feedback at the time, Angela, because from anag
some of it it's hard because a lot of it if we worked operations a
lot of times, you know, we weren't getting feedback from the I guess
the analysts. It was just that's just the way the intelligence community works.
You collect information, you give it to the analysts, and they either use
it they don't use it. I know, out of the thirty two years
that I've spent in the intelligence community, it was only nine of those years
that I was a remote viewer where I collected the intelligence. But my other
years I worked as an analyst. And as an analyst, I was so
busy reading things and trying to put papers together and try to get published because
you have to. You write papers so that the policymakers can make decisions on
what to do. And the last thing, I mean, I collected data,
so it really didn't matter where it came from. I was just collecting
the information. And I do know that the collectors you need to you need
to tell them, hey you did a great job, or hey I need
this, But that was the last thing on my mind. So I always
have to be reminded, you know, go or the collectors helping you if
they are, go tell them that they're doing a good job. So when
I was so, I guess that's just the way the intelligence community works,
Is that right, Lynn? Yeah? Sure, I know one time I
was at the DA because of asking for some feedback and I was told,
I'm sorry, you're not cleared for the information you get. Yeah, many
times we would get a general idea, maybe not just specifics, and maybe
nobody really know they really specifics sometime later. I remember a few projects where
you know, we had to wait for satellite photography results maybe six months after
the fact, after session, before we could really say anything definitive about the
work we did other than just say correlated with where we knew at the time.
But we were more interested in what's going to happen in the future for
some of those projects which we had to wait for, and I know there
were some track projects we actually never did get a real feedback on. So
so you, like Angela says, you just had to be geared up,
so to speak, to accept what information you did receive. It could be
very general. It would be nice to get a very specific thing. But
many times in the intelligence work you put pieces together and for any kind of
intelligence system and then then you have to wait a one to see what develops
them, what you put together is on track or not, And sometimes it
takes months of years to do. And not only did, but there are
times when you know there would be a project of higher than we were and
in order to give us feedback, it would mean that they admitted that there
was such a project. Well, you know, that's the intelligence that's the
nature of the intelligence community. But I think I think we did a good
job on god and getting I mean, I think they did a good job
on getting us customers, on getting us feedback. And there were certain things
we would go after if we worked on something, there were certain things that
we would go after and say, can we give us feedback or something?
Sure, Yeah, broke down us on more quite well concerning the constraints that
we had. Yeah, and then there were people changing up front in the
front office that kind of complicated the issues from time to time. Now we
had a a intelligence community work forced to stoplish, which actually helped identify casts
formula we would feed into the group and and you know we had to have
a filtering on this too. And look look at it from the point of
view, is it we get feedback even if we were correct, would it
would it be worth while doing? Or is it? Is the task a
little bit beyond what we think we can do it this time? And were
some limitations on that. You know, somebody comes in and wants to know
a precise number of the yield of a certain weapon, and I'm not sure
that that was passed on because the number reliability is usually not that great and
remote viewing yourself there, there's some things we had to look at too.
It filled her, but that did pass through. You know, we kept
kept badgering the customers, so to speaking, and had a wait until more
information became availab for them as well. Yeah, you have to you have
to make the task and conducive to remote viewing. Yeah. Now did this
program have congressional oversight? Was Congress aware of this remote viewing site taking a
program? Oh? Actually, my goodness, I's yes. In fact,
every year there were annual reports and reviews and briefings that went to various congressional
levels of the House, Senate, House and Senate Budget Committees SID to review
it. There were other ways in which the information must presented. But but
you know, and sometimes it was simply to a clost door hearing on on
Capitol Hill, on the Hill as we recalled it. So of course there
were there were documents, There was documentation, There was briefings that written reports,
there were briefings, all these forms of communication and more than an annual
basis. I mean, you never be sure when it would be a quick
reaction task coming in on a Friday afternoon at two o'clock, it had been
finished by five o'clock that day for Monday morning. I remember spending weekends in
the DNA office and I'm trying to pull a lot of this together and running
up to Fort Mead. This is before we actionally became a sign full time
up there to try to put together some of these these quick reaction recurses.
This was a very continuous kind of activity, but you got to be expressing
it, and they could come in from any congressional members, so it was
not always the more formula or the informal connactions as well. Yeah, I
only asked because there's a lot of talk right now within the UFO congressional hearing.
People are making claims that there are special access programs that are being run
above congressional oversight and I wasn't for sure, because there's a lot of back
and forth with some of these remote viewing programs in the late seventies into the
eighties and stuff. Some of them were special access programs and some of them
weren't, So I was just trying to clear that up. Well, initially,
I'd think that not all the activities were the special access. The research
part, for example, was part of a special access program, even though
current claims by individuals involved make it solid. It was so in addition to
the congressional oversighte, we had every stringent scientific oversight as well. At the
research level. Panels would meet maybe if not annually, service semi annually,
and within DA we had a dog Department of Defense level. The scientific community
convene every every few months, sometimes every month, So we had that kind
of oversight as well, not just the progressional stuff, but a well a
lot. And in fact, towards the end of my tenure, it seemed
like I was spending ninety percent of my time involved in those kinds of committees
and very little times I've been able to really devote to the demands of the
group, which was really upsetting to me. It's spent a long time getting
reports together and briefing at all not just uncurditive but the history and everything.
It was time consuming activity to be constantly getting really pere in front of your
view committees. Now, who was responsible for the research aspect of this?
Was this UH? SRI International? Or was this Army? Was this UH?
Who was responsible for the research side? Well, you know, early
on and I think it was nineteen seventy two when the initial we know viewing
and research effort beginning at the Stanford Research Institute with the helper of nuntional cards.
And then later on in nineteen seventy six there about this coming when I
became involved infusually when I was with the Air Force Far Technology Division at that
time we had allocated with small research fund contract to SRI I, and it
was the Stanford Research Institute to continue the research. So that was through at
that time it was through the Air Force. Then later on he became consolidated
under the Defense Intelligence Agency, with contributions from other sources as well, but
it was mainly through through the group at Stanford Research Institute, and later on
made I became the director of that effort. That was a none of us
Occasionally subcontracts were let out, but those were a secondary They weren't the main
focus program of the primary research that we were that they were doing that was
around, but we didn't do any research in the unit. In fact,
we were in operational or the unit. We couldn't do that because the way
our funding was allocated there was operational prem we couldn't really actually do our own
reperth. So do you have any thoughts on this, Angelo, or I
want to ask Lynn because I always get this question and I want to put
this out to Lynn and deal. But people always think there's another remote viewing
program going on, and I don't think there is, do you, Lynn?
I don't think there was. As far as research. I know that
each of our viewers did our own little research projects just to find out how
to become better, and we shared the results and all that, but there
were no formal like Dale said, there were no formal research projects. But
there was an incident when I first got into the unit. I had done
the p K and killed the computers for grade in Germany, and Brian took
me into the office and he said, we don't do that here. We
do passive mental work and we don't we don't respect things. And so I
went out to my desk. Skip that water came by and he said,
I suppose Brian told you that we don't do active mental work here, and
I said, yes, he did. And then Skip said something that he
never explained and I never asked. He said, that's right, we don't
do that here and turned around and walked off. Now what he meant by
that, I have no idea, Lyndon, what was he remember what generally
he was referencing to at the time. Any any ideas I think that Odom
was in charge at the time. Oh, I'm not sure. Yeah,
but again I think the writer's question had to do with the research, So
yeah, I don't think that we never had any indirect connection beyond that,
other than like you say, we did. We did little projects of our
own, many for proficiency. We'd hardly collect research, but you had.
You had to organize its sort of like a research. You wouldn't be kidding
yourself with the results. So they are sure I did. I did some
of those on the side myself, but I never advertaging to anybody. So
yeah, everyone does. When I got German, people had all these charts
and everything where he had been doing sure, doing studiesiness do why you have
good days and bad days? You know. Now, sometimes there was confusion
that came up because if we're other people within the government that it took took
it upon themselves to bring together people that they called the remote viewers, and
of course they weren't really through the same route that we had development chosen,
but that's what the term they used. I have no idea where these people
came from. And they went off and running on certain projects too. That
that happened at the time I was involved in the general Dose Years search.
There was another group that was also caught up in AP but we had nothing
to do with that, and it's sort of actually had a negative effect on
on the results or the image of our activity later on. But that group
was totally independent, that was self defined, and it was supported by a
certain an individual at congressional levels actually, but it was something people did.
They just jumped into the scene, started running with it. But it was
not anything official and at all not official. And you know, there were
other little elements that popped up every people said, oh they were part of
because at that time, how many people really were aware of the activity at
Ford Meat. Yeah there's enough enough. I guess rumor floating around and they
would say, yeah, there was an activity like that somewhere. Okay,
maybe Angela might remember better than I, but there was an activity, an
incident one time where a journalists from England. And I'm not sure if you
were there at the time or not, but he actually had information about not
only our unit but where we were located roughly on Afford Meat had a meeting.
I had to change on driving habits and you know all too of your
patterns in case you're being followed. I had alert at based police and at
all that. So we had to take your caution because of them, these
rumors that were floating around. And there were other rumors too, so you
never never really knew what what's going to be coming up. It could be
from some journalists, it could be from someone that fancies themselves to be a
competing room viewing group somewhere, not necessarily be in the government. So those
over so this was you you believe that this was an actual remote viewing group
from England. They were just and they were just journalists that information and started
investigative journalists. Yeah that makes sense. So a bunch of unofficial programs having
since they started programs, maybe something an individual clues together, Angela, have
you ever been approached? Right? Sorry, I would come up with a
question and I would try something out a hundred times, keep data on it.
Sometimes I'd write a paper and turn it in. But that wasn't anything
official. That was just me trying to answer a question. So it was
my own research, but not it couldn't be called task researcher. Yeah,
Angela, have you ever been approached in any unofficial capacity by anofficial to do
some sort of remote viewing for them? Yeah? Whenever the program closed in
nineteen ninety five, I went back to d IA to be I was an
analyst and there was an office that it was very unofficial, very unofficial,
but an office wanted me to look at something for them, which I did
on my own time. Well after that, I don't know what information I
received, but it was able to help another gentleman. So they brought this
other gentleman in and then I did do something. It was in a it
was an it was in an unofficial it was unofficial, and but I did,
I mean, somebody approached me to help them. Did that happen to
you at all in Oh yeah, several times. A couple of times a
colonel or a general or something would come to the office and sort of leaning
over the desk and say, hey, can you do me a favor?
You know, the general says, can you do me a favor? What
are you going to say? No? But Lena was that during a project
before it closed? Was out afterwards? That was while I was there in
the project. Yeah, okay, I thought it was probably much times after
after. I'm talking about after they closed the program in nineteen ninety five.
Okay, yeah, after the program closed, I've had several people from d
I oh, Colin asked me to do some things better. That's again totally
unofficial. Yeah, yeah, I would. I expected that was going on.
I was quite aware of that myself, but by that time I was
not on a scene because I actually had left the DC area in nineteen ninety
three, so I didn't really I wasn't really up to all the little activities
that were going on after closed. But I did catch rumors. But you
know, rumors are sometimes not reliable. Now, guys, there's a there's
a group of people out there, mostly on the internet day cleaned. They
were a part of the storegate program that we're that was opening up real portals
like star stargate portals like from Star Trek that would allow them to like time
travel and go to different planets and stuff and teleport which is completely preposterous.
But I want to get your guys comments on this to clear up that Army
intelligence and the DA wasn't opening up real stargate portals so the military personnel could
time travel. Correct, not according to not according to that stuff, No
way. Well, you know, of course you can argue theoretically that how
does this phenomena work at all? You know, something is being accessed that
we don't understand. Now we can give different labels. If I really wanted
to exaggerate and say, every time I did a pre cardage the project,
this is after I left the project, was eye entering a time portal or
portal hole or whatever you're gonna call it. Sure, these concepts aren't bad,
but there's nothing we didn't officially that said we were zipping into a portal
of it. You know, we just accepted the fact that the stock work.
We didn't give it that kind of labeling. Some people like you to
do in science fiction side, and there are a lot of people claiming to
be have been in the unit that happened. We're never in the unit thing
to do with it. Where do you think that that confusion comes from?
Though? Do you think that that they're actively lying or do you think that
they were possibly a part of something similar like the Gateway process with Robert Monroe
and they're getting it confused or what do you think's going on there? Are
they actively lying or are they making it up? Or were they a part
of something similar? The ones I've staying are actively lying, Yeah, but
they're generating or concept which they think we'll get a lot of attention. There
was a book that came out about a year after or two after the name
Stargate that we developed the name of Stargate I think it was called the Stargate
Conspiracy. And then there's a V program, So that took a lot of
traction. A lot of people associated eye activities, you know, in hindsight,
they thought was what we had. So there were there were terms on
portals in that book, but I had actually nothing. I was a fiction
book and obviously nothing to do with what we were doing. So maybe some
of that material from that book, and I think there was a TV program
that followed the Leader added to the image of Hey, we're at for it.
We were going into time portals and a lot of stuff. So it's
easy to build from what's in the media and imagine things, but we never
did anything our comes of the concepts that we had never anything like that in
it. Yeah, it seems like a way almost too discredit what you guys
were actually doing within the program, to make it about this mythological thing that
never really happened, to be able to cover up what you guys are actually
doing. That's the way that I see it, and that's the way that
I see disinformation and misinformation really working. It serves as a cover for the
real thing. With your guys thoughts, I never would have thought of it
that way. You know, we never needed to be concerned about developing our
cover because you know, we didn't really have much exposure anywhere. I mean,
like after the fact, after the Star Day program had been disclosed and
unclassified, right should go that way. I mean I don't mean like you
guys actively doing it or people actively doing it, but like the mythology surrounding
it, creating a life of its own, and then taking on a life
of its own, and then being regurgitated over and over again, not specifically
to cover up the activities of ADA or army intelligence, but an inadvertent way
to do it. I don't know if that makes sense or not. Maybe
know who knows what the motives are. I mean, it kind of seems
like the Philadelphia Experiment as well. You know, you had the Philadelphia Experiment
and then you have the movie The Philadelphia Experiment that just threw on a bunch
of lore and a bunch of mythology on top of it. Yeah, you
know, and even even at that experiment that could be a glure of truth
to it. We just don't know what really happened when they were testing those
high frequency radar systems on that ship. You know, he could have start
up somebody's no rods in such a way that they hallucinated. You know,
you don't want to walk in front of a high ENRAGA system like that and
not expect some kind of effect from from the radar energies going through your brain.
So maybe something physiological did happen that led to imagery and flights of fancy
speak. But say that they were real. You know, that's really stretching
the point. Absolutely, And I think that another thing that needs to be
cleared up with this program. Were children that ever involved with the Stargate program
or the DA or Army Intelligence at all children? Children? Nope, No,
we we had, We had families, and we tried to keep the
information away from them. But beyond any hinting that our children might have had
no, Nope, any comment on that, Angelo or Lyn, No,
we didn't know there was. There was no such involvement. Now have you
heard anything about that? You know, you we were closer to a lot
of the ruin RELs than I was in DC. And you also, Angelo,
I moved out of the area when what you could do move out of
the area down it was it was after ninety three. Yeah, yeah,
I left ninety three. Well, I I stayed there, but I didn't
moved away until a couple of years later. That's right. Yeah, Now,
was to your guys's knowledge, was SRI or SRI International ever involved with
children or ever studied on children to any of your guys's knowledge, not that
I know of. Now. In the paras psychology community, occasionally you find
the groups of parasychologists going to schools to to give them a standard ESP test.
You know, not in recent times. But that's the closest I know
of any psy psyche works. I work with younger people, but we extractively
adapted to say at our at our times or in a time frame we're talking
working with children directly, I certainly have no knowledge and I can't believe anything
like that ever happened. I think we would have picked up something in our
system, absolutely, I agree, And that was just an important thing to
clear up because there's a lot of rumors in I want to try and clear
that kind of stuff up with you guys while I have you here. And
there's another thing that people want me to ask that I keep forgetting to ask,
is that a lot of people suggest that the entire unit was involved with
scientology. And I think it's an important thing to ask, the question,
is anyone here involved or formally involved with scientology? No? No, we
would never connected with that activity at all, you know, no one.
Now you might want to push the boundary here a little bit and say at
one time Englishwan because he early on he was a member of psychology, but
then he abandoned out and be very emphatic about it, but he was never
an official member of the Unity. Remained connected through the research side with ad
May, but not in the Stargate unit. Mean now no peace. Keep
in mind the worst stargate really applies only to the operational activity at Fort Meade
were Lynn and Angelo and others were involved in it, and the other and
the preceding code words as well. It related only to the operational activity,
not to the research. Even though it's being it's being assumed or subsumed currently
people involved in research that it was, but the research activity was to support
the operational unit, but they were not part of stargate. Stargate is strictly
and the previous names like Sunda Lane and will Flame. It related only to
people at Ford me and those that were given access to the Ford me activities,
but but not to the research that was that was not part of the
other classified special access program. Another thing you'll hear too is people saying,
oh, I was targeted by that group. Yeah. Previously, UH Presidential
Order eleven nine oh five was superseded by twelve three thirty three, which actually
forbade us from UH from collecting intelligence on US citizens. You know, viewing
US citizens, except of course the thing you know, if it was for
national security and all the things like the rogue drug agents that Angela just nasled.
Yeah, thanks for our clearing that up. So nobody that you guys
are aware of that was a part of the Stargate program. Was an active
member of Scientology. Where do you think that that rumor? It? Can?
I tell you it came from? I think it came from SRI because
Ingo Swan was a scientology, Pat Price was, and there may have been
other members that SRI I that were scientologists, and I think that's where that
kind of came from. And I think Pat Price kind of went to the
church and told them that he felt as a scientologist he should tell them what
he would. He was working with with SRI and he had a low clearance
for some classified information, and I think that's where all of that came from.
But not in our unit. No, that's crush. As I was
saying earlier, it was especially related to the earlier as a right, Yeah,
of course, the operational unit of Ford Read really didn't start getting momentum
formulaly until on nineteen seventy nine, So we're talking attivity as a back in
nineteen seventy two and prior actually the people were involved in that, so it
would not connect it without at all debunked. We just debunked it another one,
another rumor down the toilet. No, no, that was It's odd,
you know that the Scientology group, even though I had studied it formula,
I read the books, I would never I wanted to know what it
was about. So I got all the l Ron Hubbard, Maturia I could
find, just to know what people were talking about, and so I was
prepared to deal with it it should he come up, and it didn't,
not in the group, but surprisingly before I even moved to Washington, DC,
while I was still with the Forearm's Intology division, a co worker had
asked me to help him out to try to counsel his son because his son
was a member of Scientology. He wanted to get out of the what he
called a cult and he couldn't do it, and he knew I was somewhat
familiar with the readings of it, and so I had And at that time,
before I moved to DC, I actually was involved in counseling work because
I was interested maybe in developing an extra line who worked through him through psychological
counseling because I was my my interest I had at a time, and so
I worked with that individual and a few others to try to you know,
deprogram that. But that's that's my closest involvement, and that was before I
even moved to Washington, DC and became involved in a Stargate unit. So
when you just mentioning the ability to spy on US citizens, and from my
understanding, the Stargate program used remote viewing or psychic phenomenon to collect intelligence information
or on target right now, was there ever a time that you can recall
that it wasn't on a foreign target, that there was something else? Yes,
let me let me jump in here. There is an exception to what
Lin said, and that is if the individual is an international fugitive and appears
in all the international list of here's here's the most wanted guard like that that
list in England or London. I'm sorry to Paris forgotten the name of it,
that list international fugitive. If the individual appears there and it's designated as
an international fugitive, it's fair game. And that's that's what led us to
work on the project that that den Angela worked on. And I'm not certain
now if Lynden wasn't, he probably was. When we were trying to locate
a fugitive in the US. We didn't knowbody was at the time, but
he had been a customs official that it became a somebody that allowed the drug
runners to run into ports and Florida without being apprehended because he tipped him off.
And when when he was discovered as having this this role, he fled,
it became a fugitive that the Customs Department is trying to locate it.
So he that's a that's an example of somebody that's fair game. And he
really was a US citizen. So it's those kinds of circumstances where yeah,
it can be we can work US intelligence sources can be applied to a US
citizen. Yeah, President at a Learner twelve three year thirty three outlined it
very succinctly as to what UH can be and cannot be collected on US citizens
and in what circumstances you so anything other than so nothing other than a fugitive
that might be in the United States. There wasn't any other task that didn't
involve intelligence collection, whether that on foreign intelligence collection, whether that be official
or unofficial tasking. Yeah, I guess yeah, what about the hostages they
were what about the hostages in Iran? Yeah, those are US citizens,
but of course they were. It was in that national security and also the
military security, and so so that was allowable. We were looking into their
private lawys. We were just trying to find them. We're just trying to
find them and hopefully get them rescued. Yeah, yeah, sure, Now
I know Dale, you had a small remote viewing unit at right Patterson Air
Force Base that helped locate a missing plane, which according to the documents I
have happened roughly between somewhere in nineteen seventy nine and nineteen eighty one, and
it was considered the first operational tasking from the army, which is also interesting
because the documents didn't mention Dale's viewing Air Force unit. And then the former
president Jimmy Carter kind of blew the whistle and down and made of public.
Yeah, because that was really unofficial. We had a few people, maybe
three at most, as pretty small, and we just simply we had the
blessings so to speak, of the commander and the shape scientists, stirred up.
We energized us right after I became a contract manager for the SRIRI work
in nineteen seventy six. You just made sense to see if if the claims
that SRII was making at the time that anyone can do this, because you
know, now we would want to qualify that somewhat. But then if this
was that robust capability, then certainly we don't want to let it go awry.
And see if somebody innounced within the Air Force that I was an air
Force bag could also do this talent. Because when I wrote that the proposals
initially for what we could do, I kept focusing on finding airplanes because that's
the kind of thing that the Air Force likes to do if they missed,
if they're losing an airplane, and we got to find it. So so
it's built from there, and it was just fortuitous that the first task that
came up, which was from the Air Force, was to locate a missing
airplane. So that's where that generated from. So it was sort of a
natural following on to our mission with the Air Force. It was not what
you recall intelligence collection, because this is operational and they're working to find a
missing airplane, So we started off from that angle. And then and then
later on of course, when skip Adwater visited me at that battles An Air
Force base and I finally learned and this happened. This visit occurred about nineteen
seventy eight or who it was the first time I did England that the Army
was going to be set up a planning on serving up we're hoping to set
up or operationally and at Fort Meads. Then then I realized, okay,
well here's where the option is going to be. And I didn't press much
harder with myne group, but ftd uh, I really didn't need to because
I left shortly after enjoined the DA, so I didn't need to. It
was the group of forward me when I moved down to Washington. Now,
through my study of remote viewing, it seems like it's a catch all ability,
and it seems like from what I've spoken with you guys and others about
everyone has the capacity to do it. And there's a lot of different terminology
for different ways to remove you crv RV, remote perturbation, remote influence,
remote sensing, I'll bounder Beakin exercises and it goes on in some cases,
it's possibly even possible even our dreams could be considered remove viewing in some aspects.
So with that in mind, is there a form of remote viewing that
Angelo or Lynn, you guys feel as being left out from the remote viewing
world? Now and more emphasis needs to be put on Angela, let's start
with you first. I just always I always thought remote doing was just it
was just a term that the scientists invented. To me, remote viewing always
meant ESP extrasensory perception. And I mean, if you know, sometimes if
you do a session, it's like, however the information comes, you just
let it come, and it can be, it can come in many ways.
I know a lot of times people think that you see that you see
a lot that you know, you just you just see, you know,
you have this, it's visionary. And a lot of times when I would
do sessions, it wasn't so much visionary as feelings or other things would work.
So I just always called everything ESP. And then I guess we kind
of break it down to our terms to make sense to whoever needs it.
I guess we call I guess people just need it to make sense to them
in some way. I don't know, what do you think. I know
that everybody who starts some kind of a project of their own likes to use
their own terminology and create their own terms for terms that are already well in
use and all that. That's sort of there saying statement, it's my field,
and I'm doing this. But I learned the English one technique, now
use English one's method, terminology and all that, and I've stuck to that.
I've not needed anything else. However, I am well aware that there
are many forms of psychic functioning, and there are many people who are really
really good at it, and so you know, I see no problem with
them using their own terminology. I would love to see some coherence in the
field. But I know that the English Swan technique almost everybody who does it
does it slightly differently according to their own needs and all. But the structure
of the NGOs Swan technique is what you report in. And that standardized reporting
allowed the military and now allows project managers and all that. To look at
something, they know the structure, they go through it, they get the
information out to where it needs to be much faster. And that's really the
strength of the EINGOS Swan technique is the structure of the reporting. But yeah,
people use other terminology, and we find ourselves constantly trying to translate back
and forth to each other when we talk to each other. You know,
it's it's it's sort of a hey, I was out there. Terminology wise,
Do you feel Lynd that being able to remove you also boost your other
senses like intuition or precognitive abilities as well. Yes, what you get your
subconscious mind, once you get your inner child grown up and give it rights
and responsibilities. Oh yeah, sometimes you can't shut it up. Yeah,
Angelo, you have any thoughts, No, that's right, Yeah, I
mean, I yeah, I agree with what Lynn said that. I guess
people just they need to make it comfortable for them so somehow they can learn
or improve or whatever. But I just and I know that, you know,
extrasensory perception that's different than maybe PK or psychokinesis, and then there's clair
buoyancy. But it's just everybody just always said they have to label something to
make it comfortable for them to be able to I think I think extrasensory perception
is one of the best overall terms. Yeah, I think so, Yeah,
right, it avoids pre judging and also psi ci phenomenon because that was
that we wore of an umbrella term which takes care of all the newances that
we can come up with. And you know, uh, years ago in
the beginning of form of research, usually with Javid Giant's work and maybe a
few years earlier in England, these they tended to categorize and Archangelo was saying
these words sometimes they are more comfortable, where it's more to make us comfortable,
make us understand something that we don't fully understand. So the originally the
terms related to the sensory process as if it was something like an image recalled
for alloyance, if it's something that we heard or felt, or if then
we be clear audience and we all these clear seeing or terms that came out
of the French side. So they're just the worst to categorize a way in
which the information is perceived. So if you can walp that together and say
it's ESP, it covers all of that, or go to the more phenomenon
concept that's sigh whichever under that, which is the research term for the area.
By the way, So my preference is to stay more, to stay
more in the generic side, people have a preference to do this or that
or or follow the c r V or Lynn's talking about, or more they
more general approach like engine has or some of the work I've done since since
I have left the business more doing pre cogentive dreamwork. So how do you
call it? What do you call that? You know and dreams, you
have all that stuff going on, you have imagery, sounds, feelings,
has the whole business, So what do you call that? So I'll just
call it precogent precognition. Yeah, So that's the other topic too, is
you know, what are we dealing with? We be dealing with a phenomenon
and that's primarily here now oriented or is our our information really primarily a future
oriented process that we're accessing. So that's an area I'm really interested in trying
to do some independent research in that. One of the problems I have with
the use of remote viewing is everybody thinks, oh, I'm a remote viewer.
Well, oh, they should be using the general term because remote viewing
is a subset of SI phenomena like dowsing and whatever. But new people come
into the field and they may have the talent to be a top notch dowser,
and yet somebody says, oh, you're a remote viewer. You have
taking this one or this other or you know, and it takes them away
from their natural ability. Oh but I really relate to that. Thanks you
for growing out out. What's talking about the future? Dale? Really brings
me into my next question. I've had a lot of people harp on me
for talking about the past so much, But you have to understand the past
to understand the future. So this next question is going to be about the
future and what the future of the United States and in turn the world looks
like, especially with all of the things has happened in the past three years.
Lynn, I know that you remote viewed. I think it was the
next fifty years and the next thirty years back in the late nineties or their
early two thousands. Am I correct on that basically in the next sixty years,
you know, sixty years? Yeah? Did you let the audience know
what's your removied about that? I didn't find many really good things and things
like I got the old transcript out. In the year twenty twenty, people
will start separating, will be communicating more through technology than face to face.
And they will effect be actively avoiding face to face different things like schools will
empty out, businesses, downtown areas will you know, empty out in all
of this and projected on further. I've been watching the the things come true
and the part of it that I hope I'm wrong on. But Stephen Schwartz
and his group viewing the future seems to have found out about the same thing.
I found out that by the year twenty forty, about seventy five percent
of the country's population will have been wiped out. And I want to be
wrong on that. There are many things I view that I want to be
wrong on. Angela. Have you I don't think I've asked you before.
Actually have you done any remote viewing on the future and what's in store for
the next let's say, twenty forty years at all? I haven't. I
haven't. But I think things. I mean, I think things are happening
now that when I was years ago. I think with the tent with the
earth change, you know, I guess, with the hurricanes, with the
earth changes, with the earthquakes, I picked up a lot of that type
of information which would change the Earth's formation and that and that's something that something
keeps coming in where I guess that the way that we that there won't be
there won't be international boundaries or there won't be national boundaries between countries. I
feel like that's gonna there's going to be a breakout breakdown there, and that
may be happening now. I you know, I thought we would be further
ahead with the green energy, but was still very dependent on oil. And
I just feel like certain things aren't changing as quickly as they should. But
again, there's a lot of free will that goes into there's a lot of
free will that goes into the future too. What do you think that's one
of the difficulties. But moving ahead too far into the future, you know,
and pre condge to work. I don't call it remembering the future.
That's a term I don't feel comfortable with. It's it's precognition. You know.
However, whatever term you wanted then apply. But it just seems to
me that these cycles, and as a matter of how stream these cycles go,
you know, and what a little I've done which is not formally documented,
but the idea of boundaries, like Angela's pointing out, there's going to
be some really significant changes here. You know, we're thinking about the Canadian
US border, not just the Mexican line, because you're boundaries that have always
been changing a lot. So there's that that issue there, which is not
to be surprising. There shifts all the time and that part of the world.
But I think cultural is simulation is going to make a big difference in
in the in the general populations throughout the world. You know, the one
area will become more dominant here in the dominant day or so. You know,
I see huge shifts there even in this country and even before you know,
even twenty years ago, if you kind of sensed that that comment.
But in terms of any any major major conflicts, sure there'll be a saber
round and they'll be thrusted dropping niglet stuff like impudent does from time to time.
But I don't see that happening. But you know, there'll still be
some rough times, economic disasters will will hit. But that's actually that's been
true in the past, you know. But his history unfortunately sometimes is not
remembered too well. You're pointing out, right, we should study the history
to understand the past, but many of us do study the history and still
don't understand the past go ahead, So yeah, but the biggest, the
biggest effect will be this technology, a bit of social media. You know
that. I don't think I foresaw that impact. That's going to be huge
in terms of forming opinions and shifting perspectives right or wrong. We see that
going right now in the political environment. So how that plays out, I'm
not sure. I don't feel too good about it. So I think there'll
be some really tough times. My feeling is they're going to be some nasty
times I had, and and not not just here in this country. But
what will we be adaptable? And one thing I try to do in the
actually I have with the groups I work with, and my focus is on
precognition. So I'm trying encourage people to accept what is in the new term
future and be able to work with it or around it. So life perspective
is be alert, be prepared, be flexible, and more people can do
that and be forewarned through their intuitions and dreams. I think we can navigate
most of us when we adapt this, When we learn what side phenomena is
and how it can be beneficial to us. As groups that do this,
then we can move a little bit easier, maybe not easier, but survive
better than some of the others that maybe the issues in the decades ahead.
Survivability may be a big key in the future for all of us. When
did you see anything to do with the boundaries like Angelo and Dyll are talking
about, did you see anything with that? When you all I saw was
the boundaries getting softer and more viable. But other than that, I didn't
see anything specifically about that. And and I like the way that they'll use
the word that's precognition because remote viewing, as you put the task in the
envelope, you put the picture in the envelope, and you get the immediate
feedback. So it is precognition. It's precognition using the tools viewing, but
it's it's precognition cognition. Yeah, they're different tools. You know, years
ago I studied some of the concepts from the Egocacy Foundation, and you know,
there's some really good insights there too that we could adapt in the remote
viewing community. And probably we have individually, although we don't call it.
Lots of insights from from different experts and proficient individuals in the past, so
not not just what we learned from becos Wan. But people, Yeah,
my mother was a big Edgar Casey and they were he was more likely to
meditation or health visualization. Yeah, I think I think he also he put
a book he couldn't read. He was basically illiterate, and he would put
a book under his pillow and I sleep his put his head on the pillow
with a book underneath the pillow, and then wake up and would know everything
in the book, apparently according to Lare and according to people that knew him
at the time, which is pretty interesting. Yeah. So there's someone that
was mentioning something about time in the chat and it was Lorietta here she sa,
does that? Come on, writers? You know time? There is
no time? How do you guys, How do you guys perceive time when
you're remove viewing or maybe you're not even remove viewing or using your psychic abilities.
Well, for me, obviously there is time. He can't get around
that. But I see it as part of the space time continuum, which
means that when you get really esoteric about it, that since space is three
dimensional and time is a part of that continuum, time has to be three
dimensional two, which means you can go sideways off it angles in time and
forward and backward and all this. But that's getting pretty far out there,
you know. But that's the way the time is. It's and to go
part of the specstime continue, Angelo, you do anything, I don't know.
I know, whenever I do remote viewing, I don't know. I
think that it's always easier to remote view the past in the present, but
it's hard to remote view the future because it's because the free will and anything
can happen, So that's hard sometimes. Noll you got anything on, Yeah,
I've gone experments here. In fact, one of them got published in
physics publication. When we were looking at pictures are objective was to perceive pictures
that would be published three days ahead or seven days ahead at a specific age,
and we were able to do that with a really good degree of accuracy.
Now here's the situation where the picture hasn't been taken, the event hasn't
yet occurred. So and some of these are natural events too, windstorms or
ice breaks, so somehow another there's an element in the few that we can
perceive that's either projected into the future from known information that we've that we've perceived
from a projection standpoint, or would perceive a future that already exists in the
future, then that's coming our way. You know. In physics as a
term called retro causation links with the idea that time equations, that electro dynamics
have a solution that goes backwards in time as well as forward. So something
in the future is flowing backwards to cause an incident now to happen, and
we can maybe perceive that approaching them through or the precording of ability. So
some futures seem really quite text and others or not that we have free will,
I mean, now we get around them. So to me, it's
it's huge mystery h time the zooms saying, and then there seem to be
different aspects to time, and one of them is that demension that runs into
a future perspective with the recordant with it and information with it at that point
in time in the future. So we have the ability to access some of
this information, which is really quite amazing. You know, why why would
we as creatures have this abilities. It's beyond survival, beyond darn Darwinism.
You know, we don't need to know, we might it might opinion nice
to know it was around the corner to more the tiger that's there. But
what good is it for us to know? Or am I be coming our
way ten days from now? You know that survival? Maybe it is I
don't know so so so maybe it is connected to a survival that we don't
fully understand. And so the universe is really constructed in in an amazing way
that the future can be perceived. And this is why I mean spending a
lot of my years recently an actually studying precognition. Is it the most amazing
phenomenon in the wall? Of course, pek is. It's also amazing too,
So it's it's something information exists about the future. Now is it in
the future. I don't know what it's about the future? So is it?
Is it? Where is that time now? Or a projection of it?
So yeah, I have all these these questions I'm pundering. Yeah,
And once you we found out long ago that once you start teaching somebody the
remote viewing, one of the first things they do is view their feedback that
will be given to them later. You can give them a target and they'll
do the target just fine. You give them another target, but show them
the wrong feedback. They won't get in the target. They'll get of what
you are showing, of the wrong thing. They're actually just looking at few
moments into the future. Yeah, that's wild. No, speaking of the
past, and it's easier to remove you the past than the present. Have
either you, Lynn or Angela went back and viewed something of importance in the
past, then if you have, could you comment on that for the audience?
Well, yeah, that's what you train. No. Yeah, is
there something the sticks in your mind that just jumps out that you remove you,
such as I don't know, the Titanic sinking or anything of that nature,
anything that just sticks out in your mind about the past? Or one
did the Aztecs cities into over night? Oh? What heavened to? Marilyn
Monroe? Who you know all of this? What did I think Stonehenge?
I think we Stonehenge? And then I think it was the uh when the
Jewish people lived at the top. Was that Massada? Was that Masada?
We did that? We did stone Hinge? What'd you figure out about Stonehenge?
What happened there? I can't even remember. I think it kind of
came up a little esoteric for me. I mean I think it was more
than just the stones in a circle. Like I said, those were practice
targets where the target wasn't nearly as important as the learning of what to do.
And so you know, everybody has their own favorite target, oh practice
target. Oh yeah, I nailed this one, and they will remember it.
But for the most part, it was just practice targets to teach you
how to do something, either by learning or just getting you to do it
just as a habit. Yeah. Yeah, But there's there's linen layers to
this. You know, you might be to describe quite well the appearance as
it is now or reconstructed through archaeology, but purpose of it again, that's
not apparent by looking at data. So the purpose now, if it comes
out at all in assessin make it buried in our own subconscious aspectations, and
we can't be absolutely certain it's an accurate version. It could be just what
we sort of deduced subconsciously. So there's a there's an issue I have with's
going back to these historical targets. Once you get past describing the visuals and
how it is now or is reconstructed, when you get to purpose, it's
now we're getting to interpretation, and I think, as we all know,
interpreting a data as a challenge as a real challenge, but we don't know
what it really is. Yeah, that thing, the history is not written
by the victors, is written by the survivors. And yeah, who's history
book of your accession? Yeah, well here's whatnot necessarily book? What substream
and the collect and conscious are you? You can always get the picture,
but when you go to purpose, yeah, and attention and attention purpose,
then things get a little bit fuzzy. That's right. You really need to
need to qualify this is as interpretation. Yeah, well, is there anything
that I'm gonna give you guys each a little bit of time, starting with
Angela first, if there was anything that you wanted to talk about that we
didn't get to talk about in this amazing Brown Table discussion, and if not,
let people know where they can find you online or if you would like,
uh, if anyone would like to reach out to you with questions,
let them know where they can contact you. Do you have my email?
Yes? I got tream them give them my email. Do you have my
cell phone number? I think it's in the email. Yes. Okay,
thanks so much, Angela I appreciate your time this evening. Lynn. Uh,
I haven't seen Lynn forever. It looks great, Thank you. Lynn.
Was there anything that you would like to mention that we maybe didn't cover
in the roundtable discussion here and if not, then let people know where they
can find you, Like Angela said, I think you have my website and
my email. Also, I'm teaching online now rather than in person. And
I'm also I bought a ranch. It's we're in the middle of nowhere called
the remote view Ranch. It's remote and what a view And uh oh,
we're going to be doing all kinds of tying for police departments, for students,
for anyone, and we're in the process of developing right now. There's
a page called remote view ranch dot com. And anybody wants to look at
what we're doing, have a good look. Yeah, thanks so much,
Leanna, appreciate your time this evening. Dale. Do you have anything for
that we possibly didn't cover in the surroundtable discussion before we wrap up? Well,
again, my shift from my dage with the remote viewing research, and
then of course my connection with the story eight unit and the previously named code
words for that unit. And since I've left the Washington, DC area GOSH
two decades ago. My focus has really been on interwork, dreamwork and pre
contented dreams and synchronicities. And synchronicity is a key to understanding precognition up to
some level of precognition, and it's a very important aspect of our lives,
and many we have synchronicities. We may not recognize them, but it's another
way of saying or recognizing the fact that we are constantly scanning the future and
and at times when we do things we don't know why we do it and
turn out to be really, really good. We found the saying that we
were looking for somehow we did we do that or the right person bump into
that. It was a synchronistic kind of experience, but all along it was
there in our subconscious minds through our pre cognitive abilities, and we were able
to navigate and have that intersection. So synchronicity and precognition the things that fit
together, and that's kind of what I've been doing in recent years and some
of my informal work and more formal drink research. I stay with dreams now
because I find it's a lot easier for people to do that, and again
not looking for details content information, but just enough to help people out.
And you don't need to fulfill a page data and all you need to need
one piece of good information and I think we can get out of So I'm
doing that. And if anybody wants you to learn a little bit more,
do you have an email and you get contract me there. Thanks so much,
guys, really appreciate your time this evening. It was an honor and
a privilege to have all of you guys here. I would love to do
it again sometime. We can do it anytime. Thank you guys so much,
and thanks everyone in the chat. Please be sure to hit the thumbs
up button to help the channel and the algorithm. Sure subscribe at the ballocon
as well for notifications. I will be back on Tuesdays. You guys,
next time.