1 00:00:02,359 --> 00:00:06,240 Nobody has any time, nobody really likes to practice. Nobody knows what to 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:11,000 practice, and there's a million people online telling people how to practice. First 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,519 of all, if you don't know what you're trying to do practicing, it 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,079 isn't gonna work. So if I said to you, Fred, you're a 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,480 new golfer, you want to learn golf, and you're like, you know, 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,120 I'm just going to try it on my own. I'm gonna go to 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,000 the range for the next month with a seven iron six hours a day. 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,280 I don't think you're going to get better at golf as fast as you would 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,399 if you took an hour lesson with two drills that you then did for maybe 10 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:36,880 ten minutes twice a week. Hi, this is Eric Amol from Traverse City, 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,000 Michigan. I play at the Grand Travers Resort, home of the Bear, 12 00:00:41,359 --> 00:00:46,960 Wolverine, and Spruce golf courses. And this is episode number nine hundred 13 00:00:47,039 --> 00:00:52,479 and eleven. If you don't know what to improve, practicing is inclined to 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:58,799 help With a new guest, Sarah Stone. This is Golf Smarter, sharing 15 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,560 stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your score 16 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:08,680 and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome to 17 00:01:08,719 --> 00:01:14,280 the Golf Smarter podcast. Sarah, Hi Fred, how are you. I'm 18 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:15,439 grace, thanks, happy to be here, Excited to get to know you 19 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,040 and spend some time with you. Oh, thank you so much. I'm 20 00:01:19,079 --> 00:01:23,439 excited to be catching you on the end of a vacation time. So you're 21 00:01:23,519 --> 00:01:29,680 nice and relaxed. It's good for you. I saw a video of you 22 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,400 doing a putting drill online and I'm like, oh, you're a good communicator. 23 00:01:34,439 --> 00:01:38,799 I want to talk to you some more. Thank you for saying that. 24 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,879 I think that comes from being a teacher. For I think I've done 25 00:01:42,879 --> 00:01:53,040 this twenty two years now you you lost track? Yeah, yeah, it's 26 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:59,680 twenty two years. And what was your path and why did you end up 27 00:01:59,719 --> 00:02:02,120 being a golf instructor? I mean, how did you decide this is what 28 00:02:02,159 --> 00:02:08,479 you wanted to do? So I went to college to play tennis and ended 29 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:15,759 up on the golf team because the tennis practices were four thirty am and four 30 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:21,039 thirty pm five days a week, and golf practice was after class at four 31 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,000 o'clock for two hours. So I thought maybe that might be a little bit 32 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:29,000 more doable with a social schedule and education. But and then I got the 33 00:02:29,039 --> 00:02:32,560 director of the PGM program, which is a professional golf manager program. You 34 00:02:32,599 --> 00:02:36,879 go to school and become a golf professional certified, and then you could get 35 00:02:36,879 --> 00:02:39,199 an actual degree in marketing at bachelor's He was like, your golf pro, 36 00:02:39,319 --> 00:02:43,039 you're not a tennis pro. I got your a job interview at Westchester Country 37 00:02:43,039 --> 00:02:46,000 Club to go work for John Kennedy and Ryan New York, and it's yours 38 00:02:46,039 --> 00:02:50,919 to lose. So I went and spent the day there, got hired, 39 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,439 and that kind of started my career in golf. Wow, so when did 40 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,039 you start playing golf? I mean, did you start when you were a 41 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:04,360 kid playing tennis and golf all the same time? So I actually it's I 42 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,719 sound like I grew up somewhere where there was a lot of that going on. 43 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:08,719 I grew up in a small farm town in the in the very very 44 00:03:08,759 --> 00:03:15,639 southeast corner of Michigan, and I played all the sports, and I kind 45 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,599 of I went I picked up golf because I went to a camp that had 46 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:23,039 it as an activity and the counselor told my mom, this is always in 47 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:24,919 seventh grade, he was like, she's she's she's very special. With the 48 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,159 sport. I still don't remember this happening. My parents tell me it did. 49 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,919 As a parent, I know how these stories go. I remember these 50 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:37,680 and they're like, what are you talking about it? And so anyway, 51 00:03:37,719 --> 00:03:40,280 that the guy actually asked for my autograph and he showed my mom. He 52 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:44,360 said, she's gonna be famous and I want to have her. Which so 53 00:03:44,439 --> 00:03:46,960 as a kid, that's kind of like you're you're a big fish in a 54 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,759 really small pond and then you go somewhere and you're a small fish and big 55 00:03:49,759 --> 00:03:53,639 pond. So yeah, And I didn't think it was going to be golf. 56 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:54,199 I didn't know what it was going to be if it was going to 57 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,680 be sports, but I knew I would be a teacher. I really felt 58 00:03:57,719 --> 00:04:02,039 like I had that in me. Interesting. Interesting And have you ever played 59 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:09,199 competitively? Oh? Yes, I played. I played in college and then 60 00:04:09,199 --> 00:04:13,319 I graduated. I played in the met sections the whole I think nineteen years 61 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,599 I was there. I actually won the player of the Year for the women 62 00:04:15,639 --> 00:04:18,480 in that section in twenty twelve. Congratula. So it's nice. They have 63 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:21,720 a nice a nice thing. So I'm a little proud of that because that 64 00:04:21,759 --> 00:04:28,360 was a while working full time but and for people like that I write for 65 00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:31,160 which is why I enjoy talking, communicating and writing about golf. Is I 66 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,560 have a very busy schedule myself with my work. How can I help my 67 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:42,079 students like intentionally practice correctly so that the time that they use is valuable to 68 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:47,199 getting better. I love that you said practice correctly. Define that for me 69 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:54,639 go deeper with that. So I think practice practicing golf has just a huge 70 00:04:54,879 --> 00:05:00,079 cover so many things. I think if you practice correctly means, first of 71 00:05:00,079 --> 00:05:01,680 all, if you don't know what you're trying to do, practicing it isn't 72 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,160 gonna work. So if I said to you, Fred, you're a new 73 00:05:05,199 --> 00:05:08,399 golfer, you want to learn golf, and you're like, you know, 74 00:05:08,399 --> 00:05:10,439 I'm just gonna try it on my own. I'm gonna go to the range 75 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:15,120 for the next month with a seven iron six hours a day. I don't 76 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,800 think you're going to get better at golf as fast as you would if you 77 00:05:17,879 --> 00:05:23,920 took an hour lesson with two drills that you then did for maybe ten minutes 78 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,240 twice a week. That's an observation. I haven't done any studies on it, 79 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,199 but this is something I've kind of started to put together, and my 80 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,879 brain is nobody has any time, nobody really likes to practice, nobody knows 81 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:40,439 what to practice, and there's a million people online telling people how to practice. 82 00:05:41,079 --> 00:05:45,040 Right. Does that make sense? I think it does. I think 83 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:50,120 it's quite powerful because I see, you know, I play with guys and 84 00:05:50,199 --> 00:05:55,240 we're all hacks out there. We're all struggling and trying to figure it out. 85 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,680 And like a friend of mine who has needs a lot of work on 86 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,279 his wing, and he's like, Okay, I'm starting to see a difference. 87 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,360 And I'm like, I watched him play and I'm like, I'm glad 88 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,759 that you do, because I'm seeing the exact same thing going on. You're 89 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,079 lifting your body, you're lifting up, you're turning your head, you have 90 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,560 your hands way behind the ball. I mean, I'm like, I'm not 91 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,439 going to give you a lesson. That's not what I do. But I've 92 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:28,560 noticed that year's wing is pretty similar like it was before your lessons. But 93 00:06:28,639 --> 00:06:31,000 he's But what I love about it is that he's continuing to take lessons. 94 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,439 He didn't just go and take one or two lessons to go, Okay, 95 00:06:33,439 --> 00:06:38,680 I got this and now I'm I'm moving on. I think that's the hard 96 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,959 party. I think it's I think that's the frustrating, most frustrating aspect of 97 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,399 being a coach. And I have a lot of friends that coach, and 98 00:06:46,439 --> 00:06:50,920 we talk often about this is the expectation of improvement with very, very little 99 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,000 bit of time put in. And there's a great Tiger Woods video where he 100 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,959 talks about working with Butch, and Butch made him rehearse this move over and 101 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,439 over and over for hours. We're talking about the best player in the world 102 00:07:01,519 --> 00:07:05,879 taking over a year working as hard as he did to change a pattern. 103 00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:11,040 And then you work with wonderful people that have other kinds of jobs that are 104 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,399 trying to play this on the weekday thinking a motor pattern or a movement change. 105 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:16,920 Like to your point, you don't even see anything different in your buddy's 106 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,720 golf swing. I mean, it's so hard to change that. And so 107 00:07:20,759 --> 00:07:25,319 when I say practice correctly, I'm like, well, what other area of 108 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,120 your game, Fred, could we improve that would actually lower your score? 109 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,920 Is it going to be your actual full swing? Maybe not. Maybe we 110 00:07:31,959 --> 00:07:36,920 pick chipping or i'm sorry, short game shots, or teach you about how 111 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:43,399 to hit a bunker shot correctly or with a different concept like my putting drill 112 00:07:43,439 --> 00:07:46,519 that you brought up. That was very nice of you to say that was 113 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,319 just an idea of like how would you even warm up to go play golf 114 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,959 on the putting green? Because I watch people do stuff. I'm like, 115 00:07:51,279 --> 00:07:54,639 Fred, what are you doing? Like, I don't know, just putting 116 00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:58,399 around. I'm like, what's it going to do for you? I don't 117 00:07:58,399 --> 00:08:03,439 know, Like they're not even taking and information that they're getting. And my 118 00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:07,160 friends think I'm obsessive because I have all my little routines that I do before 119 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:11,839 a round of golf, and I'm like, you know, in the past, 120 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:16,360 I would get to the course an hour ahead of time to get warmed 121 00:08:16,439 --> 00:08:20,959 up, and now I find myself getting there like ninety minutes ahead of time 122 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,160 because now I want to start working more on not just hitting a bucket of 123 00:08:24,199 --> 00:08:26,720 balls or just putting. I want to I want to work on the short 124 00:08:26,759 --> 00:08:30,360 game for a while, and if they have a bunker that I can hit 125 00:08:30,399 --> 00:08:31,919 a couple of shots out of, just to get a feel for this. 126 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,120 I'm spending more and more time. You know, my long day of golf 127 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:43,799 has gotten even longer. Now, have you noticed a difference in in your 128 00:08:43,879 --> 00:08:46,840 scoring or you're in anything in your game by the length of time that you're 129 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:58,720 spending previous year round. Great question, I would say yes. And that's 130 00:08:58,759 --> 00:09:03,240 compared to a couple of times where I was running late and I just said, 131 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,399 Okay, I'm just gonna take a couple of swings and do a couple 132 00:09:05,399 --> 00:09:09,960 of puts and then just step up to the first tea. So I have 133 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,919 a better sense of what I'm doing that day or how it feels. And 134 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,080 I'm a little and obviously a lot looser than if I just walk up to 135 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,639 the first tea. And I have friends who like, I don't want to 136 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,639 waste any shots. I'm just going to walk up to the first tea, 137 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:30,039 And I'm like, what does that mean? Waste shots? You know? 138 00:09:30,759 --> 00:09:35,320 Yeah, I think there's that. There's that fine line of expectation management. 139 00:09:35,399 --> 00:09:37,840 Like if you go and you put ninety e minutes in before each of your 140 00:09:37,919 --> 00:09:41,799 round and you feel like you should you should which should such a bad word, 141 00:09:41,879 --> 00:09:46,919 but shoot a certain score because you did more stuff to get ready than 142 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,080 your buddy did, and then he just goes out and whales away at it, 143 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,519 and you guys come off the course shooting around the same score. And 144 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:58,399 then people get frustrated with that. It's like expectation management of sometimes, like 145 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,039 if there's an area of your game that you you don't like, maybe you 146 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,919 don't warm that up because you don't want to know that it's going to happen 147 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,240 again, or that you're going to see it happen again, so that when 148 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,440 you step into that, say we'll call it a bunker shot, you're not 149 00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:11,840 like, oh my god, I tried four of these on the range and 150 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:15,480 I hit everyone into the trees, and now I got to know, you 151 00:10:15,519 --> 00:10:18,480 know, like changing the mindset. And so that's why I was wondering what 152 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:24,120 happened for you is if that ninety minutes is giving you a fair expectation of 153 00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:28,039 your score, you know, the time in versus the product. Yeah, 154 00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:33,120 let's take a time out and I'll follow up and tell you how obsessive I 155 00:10:33,159 --> 00:10:43,519 get after the round as well. We'll be back right after this, Sarah. 156 00:10:43,879 --> 00:10:46,960 You know now that I'm using our coasts on each of my clubs so 157 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:52,759 I can track my shots and stuff. I'll go and after the round, 158 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,559 I'll sit and look at my notes. I'll look at the round and where 159 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:01,480 my problems were, and to me, I look for where did I have 160 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,519 trouble today? Where did I have trouble in my last round? So that's 161 00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:07,879 something that I can go and work on. I don't want to just it's 162 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:11,360 like, oh, well, I'm you know, I'm putting inside of ten 163 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:16,120 feet well today, so I'm just going to keep putting inside of ten feet. 164 00:11:16,159 --> 00:11:18,679 It's like, no, no, no, what happened between ten and 165 00:11:18,759 --> 00:11:22,720 twenty feet? Is a distance control? Is it my line? You know? 166 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,759 My short game? Am I chunk of the ball? Is it checking 167 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:33,279 too quickly? Little things like that. Those are the things that I find 168 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,159 that I want to work on or the things that aren't working on my round. 169 00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:41,639 Yeah. I think our coast has been a huge game changer for information 170 00:11:41,759 --> 00:11:45,799 for the student and for the teacher or their coach, because I mean, 171 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,679 oftentimes we'll get people come up like I just couldn't hit my driver today, 172 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,720 and I'm like, okay, Fred, let's go through your round. And 173 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,399 then we're looking at the data that you're getting is measured in a way that 174 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,600 you might not take the time to do yourself, and it helps us as 175 00:11:56,639 --> 00:12:01,159 a team figure out where do you need to end your time? Right? 176 00:12:01,399 --> 00:12:03,960 You know, that's that's really really good information to be able to have now 177 00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:07,720 instead of how many fairways did you hit, how many greens did you hit? 178 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:11,080 And how many puts did you have? Like that's archaic now it doesn't 179 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,159 it doesn't matter anymore. I mean, how far are you putting your first 180 00:12:16,159 --> 00:12:20,879 put from? That's better information for me instead of I had thirty six puts. 181 00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:26,840 Okay, that doesn't really help me, you know exactly, you know, 182 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:35,440 and I know that the amount of puts that I have and around definitely 183 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,799 impacts my scoring. And so if I have, you know, I'm trying 184 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:45,480 to get my puts to thirty to thirty two thirty three puts around, and 185 00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:48,919 if I can get there, I'm going to have obviously better scores. And 186 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,960 I'm doing thirty four to thirty eight puts in around, which definitely happens as 187 00:12:52,960 --> 00:13:00,399 well. So that kind of information always helps. It's interesting you you brought 188 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,919 this up in during the conversation so far, and it's something that I actually 189 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,440 wrote down of something I wanted to discuss with you today, and that is 190 00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:20,480 what frustrates you about the state of golf instruction today. Oh boy, here's 191 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,639 a can of worms that can open up that might be bigger than worms. 192 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:30,480 No, it's interesting. So I just drove seven hours home from upstate New 193 00:13:30,519 --> 00:13:31,840 York, and I got the opportunity to catch up with some friends in the 194 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,519 business, particularly teachers, and we always talk about this when we get some 195 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,360 time. But there's a couple of things. One the idea of the thirty 196 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:45,320 minute fix or the hour that everything is done. I mean, doctor's offices 197 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,240 aren't run that way. Dennis's offices aren't run that way. It's the idea 198 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,919 that Fred can come to me in thirty minutes, Like, I get this 199 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,759 all the time. Can I just get a quick cutting lesson with you at 200 00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:58,240 two o'clock? I'm like for half an hour, and I wish that could 201 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,440 be a more expensive less and then a two hour on the golf course with 202 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,200 Fred. You know. So the time is number one, that there's a 203 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,840 time required for the skill to get better from the teacher to coach. If 204 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,159 the message is good in the information is understood, then the lesson should end, 205 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,600 if that makes sense. The second frustrating part, I think is the 206 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:24,679 understanding that there are teachers out there who spend their entire like career studying this 207 00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:31,240 information, just like a doctor, a surgeon, an engineer, a writer, 208 00:14:31,639 --> 00:14:35,200 an artist, and I don't know if the perception of what we do 209 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,759 is put on the same level as that. I think sometimes when you're at 210 00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:43,799 a country club, this is the other You know, what's the difference between 211 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:48,879 the kid behind the counter that's twenty seven years old and then someone like myself 212 00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:52,200 who's made this their career. Some people don't see a difference in the lesson, 213 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:52,799 do you know what I mean? It's kind of like, oh, 214 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,720 all golf pros teach golf, they run tournaments, they fold shirts. It's 215 00:14:56,759 --> 00:15:00,279 like, yeah, but there are a few of who's election a lot of 216 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,200 us that made this our our work, not just our job. And I 217 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,440 think that's that trying to change that perception. I think is also very frustrating. 218 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,360 Is their passion being lost by golf instructors. Are they losing their passion 219 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:22,120 because of the frustration they're having with the demands from their clientele. Yeah, 220 00:15:22,159 --> 00:15:28,480 I don't think there's I think the frustration that's going on is there's a lot 221 00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:33,000 of people who are learning and playing golf. There's a lot of information out 222 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,960 there. I mean, you can google bunker shots and you could be gone 223 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:41,159 for three days on down the rabbit hole of that, I think. I 224 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,120 think the biggest frustration that my friends and I share with each other is just 225 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:50,120 the understanding of time and work and what the expectation management, I really think 226 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,919 is what circles back to. But in the business, I think, I 227 00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:56,639 think what you're going to see is so many of us are constantly talking about 228 00:15:56,679 --> 00:16:00,159 how to change that because we're changing human behavior as golf professionals. So we're 229 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,679 like, how else can we make this better for us, you know, 230 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:10,639 like time and money? Yeah, in quality, But I don't think people 231 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:14,320 are frustrated and losing passion. I think they're trying to figure out a way 232 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,240 to make it still fun for themselves, at least the people I am getting 233 00:16:18,279 --> 00:16:22,600 to spend time with. Oh, that's interesting, Yeah, and make it 234 00:16:22,279 --> 00:16:27,240 get some reward out of it as well, because again I think the concept 235 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:32,799 of giving a half hour lesson should be more expensive than a two hour on 236 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:38,200 course lesson. I think that's really an interesting concept. Because I'm of the 237 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:44,519 hundreds of golf instructors that I've talked to over the years, it seems like 238 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,440 you'll hear more of people going, oh, I'm playing in a charity tournament 239 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,799 this weekend, so fix my game. You know, when's the last time? 240 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,000 When's the last time you played? About six months ago. And one 241 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,240 of my favorite lines is somebody said when came in for a lesson, he 242 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:06,640 goes, so, how long have you been playing? I've been playing most 243 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,720 of my life, like forty five years. And he goes, and how 244 00:17:08,759 --> 00:17:12,240 often do you play? Goes? Yeah, once a month, goes, 245 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:18,319 So you've been playing for six months? Right, yeah, exactly, exactly. 246 00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:21,559 The nice thing too, is there's data now for us to turn the 247 00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:26,759 people and say your track man numbers say this, or your our cost numbers, 248 00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:30,000 tell us this story so you can help. You can help the students 249 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,400 see it, see it better, I think than before they'd have to really 250 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,799 trust you and be like you're wrong or you're right. Now we can say 251 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,559 here's the actual like piece of paper with the data on it, and this 252 00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:47,039 is what it's telling both of us. That's that's not biased, right, 253 00:17:47,559 --> 00:17:55,319 right? And do people understand the data? Sometimes when I you know, 254 00:17:55,359 --> 00:18:00,359 a couple of times I'll go and have an actual lesson. Most of the 255 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,680 time I'm just talking about it. But when I have a lesson and they'll 256 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,480 explain something or if I'm watching someone take a lesson online. I'll watch a 257 00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:17,279 video on YouTube or something, and it seems like the instructors giving information that 258 00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:21,759 the person doesn't have a clue of what they're talking about. But they're sitting 259 00:18:21,839 --> 00:18:26,039 there nodding their head, going yeah, sure, right, but they can't 260 00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:30,000 translate it. So as soon as they go home and hopefully they go and 261 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:33,759 practice what they've been taught, but they're like, and I forgot what that 262 00:18:33,759 --> 00:18:41,400 meant. So my theory on that is the teacher or the coach. I 263 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,519 think this we crossed into a little bit of coach is being more curious, 264 00:18:44,519 --> 00:18:48,880 like instead of oh, this person has an open club face and they come 265 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,839 across it and down and so the ball starts to the left and goes to 266 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,960 the right, and they don't prefer that result to happen. So they have 267 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,440 these ideas in their head about why it happens, and the teacher has ideas 268 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,279 in their heads and how to change it. But if you don't speak the 269 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:04,400 same language, I think that's why they go home and go I don't know 270 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,160 what they said. They just said something about like maybe put the ball more 271 00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:11,480 back in my stance or something. I don't know. Why. So that's 272 00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:14,599 where I try to change it with my students, because we talked about this 273 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,319 as coaches, were like, how do you not give the same lesson over 274 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,079 and over to Fred Green on Thursday at eleven? And I'm like, well, 275 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,720 if you're doing that, you're not doing your job, because if Fred 276 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,119 Green's coming back with the same issue each time, you haven't done a good 277 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,160 enough I think this, you haven't done a good enough job explaining to Fred 278 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,359 why this is happening and how to change it. Well, then your question 279 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:40,839 would also be to Fred Green, did you practice this since our last lesson? 280 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:42,480 Well? No, I played a couple of times. No. I 281 00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:47,039 didn't ask you if you've played. I asked if you've practiced. Yeah, 282 00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:51,559 well I hit a bucket of balls before I before my round. Did you 283 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:56,720 pract Like there's a there's a big disconnect between warming up and practicing. For 284 00:19:56,799 --> 00:20:00,640 sure, I would agree with that, But I think a lot of what 285 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,759 I've seen in my career is people just don't understand what they're trying to do 286 00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:08,599 with what they have in their hand. Like doesn't mean about the practicing. 287 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,759 It's like, if you if you can explain it in a way that would 288 00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:17,240 would resonate with the student the person with using some physics and geometry, simply 289 00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:22,240 explain to them that they can make adjustments faster than just repeating and creating a 290 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,960 new pattern. If that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, all right, 291 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,480 another time out. I'm gonna throw a line of question at you when we 292 00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:33,680 come back that I hope stumps you, but I'm sure that you'll find a 293 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:42,960 way to answer it. We'll be right back after this, all right, 294 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:51,519 Sarah, where what do you if you can define this, what generally do 295 00:20:51,599 --> 00:20:56,759 you see are common issues with let's say a twenty to twenty five handicap. 296 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,039 I would stay to see where I'm going with this. I know, I 297 00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:11,519 wonder who we're talking about. I would say the twenty to twenty two handicappers 298 00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:15,599 would be and I know that this is always what people say is short game 299 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:21,480 work thirty to fifty yards and then general putting concepts speak control, learning how 300 00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:23,279 to read a green and then knowing how to like start the ball online. 301 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,640 Those would lower the handicap faster than full swing practice. I would say, 302 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,640 a majority of the time, twenty to twenty two handy, you guys don't 303 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,839 have a wild miss that's costing you like six to ten shots off the tea 304 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,079 every time there's usually some little thing in there that would be a little bit 305 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,920 finer of a detail to polish than something in full swing. But okay, 306 00:21:45,079 --> 00:21:48,680 so what was your question? Yeah, no, and short game putting. 307 00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:52,640 What I was going to say is that I've always believed, and that's really 308 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,960 the basis of how I started this show of Golf Smarter, is that if 309 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:07,119 you understand core strategy right and you understand how to navigate your way around a 310 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,359 golf course, you can probably lower your scores quicker than if you're just working 311 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,519 on your swing mechanics right. But I've also found that short game and putting 312 00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:23,559 is huge to helping you bring down your index a bit. So let's go 313 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,799 to a fifteen to twenty handicap. Are we in the same issues here of 314 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,480 short game and putting or do we have other issues that people who have now 315 00:22:33,559 --> 00:22:38,680 they're they're getting into the nineties right on a regular basis, I would say 316 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,119 no, that now that group could be something different where they might have a 317 00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:48,400 wildly different miss than they're used to seeing. That creates a spin out. 318 00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:52,519 So someone who hits blocks all day all a sudden hits a snap hook on 319 00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:56,359 the tenth te and doesn't know how to adjust for the snap hook and then 320 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,400 just kind of tries to work around it for a while. Like the better 321 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,880 players that I work with, the high level amateurs don't seem to understand how 322 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,759 to play a ball opposite of the mist that they have. So maybe they 323 00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:11,799 hear a drawer of the golf ball and then a hook gets introduced somewhere in 324 00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:14,519 the round and they have no idea how to fix it. So then you 325 00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:17,240 teach them how to fade it, if that makes sense. So adding maybe 326 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,799 another tool to their tool kit of playing to adjust for the miss that sneaks 327 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,160 up, that just creates the whole spin out. M interesting. So for 328 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:34,279 somebody who has a natural fade to their ball, how difficult is it to 329 00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:40,160 teach them to have the variety of shots. I mean, we're talking about 330 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:48,519 a twenty to twenty five handicap fifteen to twenty. I still I'm hitting its 331 00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:53,319 trade and I have a natural fade. I've never been able to figure out 332 00:23:53,319 --> 00:24:00,920 how to get a nice tight draw going, although I do occasional have a 333 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,200 snap hook where I've even been keeping track lately, it's like, Okay, 334 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,559 what shots. Did I just lose a ball on right? And it always 335 00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:11,160 seems to be the driver with that snap hook right and just pull it way 336 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:18,880 too hard. What does it take to learn how to adjust it so you 337 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,519 can, you know, use your natural fade if you have it, or 338 00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:25,839 I need to hit a draw here, I'm going to go do that. 339 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,240 I mean, I think of it as the way that I explain it to 340 00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:34,359 people is it's like a recipe for something that maybe you make at home, 341 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:40,119 like a Caker brownie mix or something. You know, there's there's pieces that 342 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,279 have to be there for this ball flight to happen, and if they're not 343 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,119 there, it's not going to happen. Oh, So fades are typically the 344 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,759 direction the club is traveling is more left for a righty than the face is 345 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,119 open or so what's happening with you is you're proud be swinging a little left 346 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,359 with a little bit of an open face, and then when the face squares 347 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,160 to the little left, it goes really far left but feels amazing and looks 348 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,880 great. It's just nowhere near where you wanted it to go. And then 349 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,960 when it curves slightly into the right, that means your face is just opening 350 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,039 a little bit because your brain's going Fred, We're trying to actually hit it 351 00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:21,880 over here, so we have to adjust something. So to teach you how 352 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,079 to hit a tight draw would probably just be more of a whiteboard conversation about 353 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:32,839 the ball flight laws and then which pieces in your recipe or what ingredients aren't 354 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,200 there to make that happen. And then there's the playing golf with it, 355 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,400 which I think is the hardest part is understanding it. But then, like 356 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,519 you're all, if you play, if you play at the same golf course, 357 00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:45,279 which is amazing. If you remember at a club and you get to 358 00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:48,359 play it all the time, it's great, but you're always gonna have scar 359 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,039 tissue on certain holes. So no matter how much we work on trying to 360 00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:55,039 get you to hit a draw, if you have a pole shot that happens 361 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:59,519 on like say the twelfth hole at your club every Saturday during the club championship, 362 00:26:00,319 --> 00:26:04,200 I don't think I can get that to go away forever because you have 363 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,000 history with that hole. Does that make sense? Oh yeah, oh it 364 00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:11,039 absolutely makes sense. But it's also the time where it's like, Okay, 365 00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:15,680 every time I play this hole, I hit it in the water. Okay, 366 00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:18,640 So I'm not going to hit that club anymore on this hole. I'm 367 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,640 gonna change club. I'm gonna try to change my strategy, even if it's 368 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,799 just a bit, But I got to get into a different mindset on this 369 00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:30,119 hole and stop thinking about it. Yeah, well, like going back to 370 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:36,119 your your snap hook or your slice or I think it goes back to I 371 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,839 think for you or for most people, it's just well, what's actually happening 372 00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:41,920 and what do you believe is happening, because sometimes those don't actually line up 373 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:48,279 at all. M Right, Like if your ball always falls slightly to the 374 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,279 right, you're gonna aim a little left all the time, and then progressively 375 00:26:52,279 --> 00:26:53,799 as the round goes on, that's probably going to continue to happen. And 376 00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:57,519 then for you, Fred, your club face finally gets squared of the direction 377 00:26:57,599 --> 00:27:03,759 that you're aimed and now you're nowhere near where you wanted to go. I'm 378 00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:11,920 glad that's usually the no. Because I listened to this like twelve hours a 379 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,079 day. I'm like, all right, well, let's talk about where the 380 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,599 where the spill started, like when when did the oil leak happen? And 381 00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:22,000 then how do we get back to fixing that? Right? Right? So 382 00:27:22,079 --> 00:27:27,640 let's move down to these handicapped players and what it is that is missing in 383 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,440 their game generally when they're at that level, Like if we go down to 384 00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:37,880 a ten to a fifteen, right, yeah, I think ten to fifteens, 385 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,960 there's probably a skill they just don't know how to do, like maybe 386 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,000 hit a short bunker shot, maybe hit a high lofted shot out of the 387 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:51,759 out of like a like a thirty yard shot over a bunker. Maybe they 388 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:59,519 don't strategize correctly, you know, with recovery shot. I think that's usually 389 00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:02,599 the pat that might be the range for those sorts of things. Of like, 390 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,160 let's teach you another skill to get yourself back into play faster than three 391 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,519 shots down the rough with your hybrid because you think you're supposed to use that 392 00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:22,519 there. They don't. Do you do you prefer giving on course lessons as 393 00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:26,279 opposed to range lessons. It's not a matter of preference. It's probably a 394 00:28:26,279 --> 00:28:33,920 matter of opportunity. Our club is fairly busy, and you know, sometimes 395 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,079 I feel the higher the handicap, the more they want to be on the 396 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,359 golf course, and I feel like they're not the ones that benefit from on 397 00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:45,160 course as much as if they don't know how to move a ball forward and 398 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,640 have a repeatable pattern that they can have some sort of idea about what's going 399 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,400 to happen. It's not very much fun to get them on the golf course 400 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,279 right right, But a higher like a lower handicap like a five or a 401 00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:00,759 ten or lower, that could be strategy of what side the tea box are 402 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:03,960 you're putting your tea in to suit the shape of the hole and the shot 403 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,680 that you want to hit, you know, stuff like that, And do 404 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,839 you find that makes a difference depending on web side of the tea box that 405 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,240 you're you're on. Oh yeah, if you think of putting you know, 406 00:29:15,319 --> 00:29:18,319 right to left breaking pots, we aim more right so the ball curves back 407 00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:22,640 towards the hole. The same idea would be with the tea box. So 408 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:23,720 if you hit a little fade, I'd put you all the way on the 409 00:29:23,799 --> 00:29:26,480 right side of the tea box and have you aim down left center, and 410 00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:30,240 then your ball would curve back into play instead of out of play. Sure, 411 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,920 sure, sure, it's kind of like bowling. I just remember exactly 412 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,160 right, if you if if you've got that that tenpin sitting in the far 413 00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:44,480 right corner, you're not gonna line up on the far right corner. You're 414 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,559 going to go onto the opposite side and make a bigger angle, give yourself 415 00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:52,240 more opportunity there. Yeah, bowling, I haven't, I haven't thought of 416 00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:53,720 it. That's a great analogy actually for that. That'll help me teach the 417 00:29:53,759 --> 00:30:00,000 people who probably understand bowling. Thank you, Fred, Welcome, You're welcome. 418 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,000 I'm gonna yeah, let's take another time out. Too much fun. 419 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:10,759 Let's see if we can make this work. We'll be right back. Well, 420 00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:15,039 I truly hope you enjoyed last week's episode with Jim Waldron because, as 421 00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:19,000 we've discussed so many times, Jim has been featured on Golf Smarter since our 422 00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:26,200 earliest days. That's because he's such a knowledgeable and insightful teacher, especially when 423 00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:30,839 it comes to our focus to game improvement, which is the mind body connection. 424 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,559 Well, this week on Golf Smarter, Mulligan's is the first of two 425 00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:41,240 episodes with Jim from February twenty twelve, and this one's called make Sure You're 426 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:44,599 Ready to take the Next shot. For the average golfer, they need more 427 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,240 distance and so the shot shape that I teach most of my average golfer students 428 00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:52,039 a slight draw with all of their clubs, starting around at five or six 429 00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:56,119 iron all the way through driver, and the longer the club, the more 430 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,839 of a draw. So they might draw it somewhere between five and ten yards 431 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:03,960 with their driver, and maybe they only draw it one to two yards with 432 00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:07,440 a six iron if they have cavity back game improvement clauds, which most of 433 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,359 my students do these days. Starting right around a seven iron, they're going 434 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,799 to go with the splint shape I'm teaching them. The ball won't draw the 435 00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:19,000 pretty or maybe very little and basically go straight from about a seven iron through 436 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,200 a lobwitch. If they play with forage blades, it'll still draw a little 437 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,920 bit, maybe not a lobwacher, a sandwich. It was starting around a 438 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,079 pitching body. They might get a little baby one yard draw if they play 439 00:31:30,119 --> 00:31:33,960 with forage blades because they curve the ball more easier. Game improvement clubs are 440 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,359 designed not to curve the ball. That's episode two hundred and twenty seven, 441 00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:41,920 the first of two conversations featuring our own Yoda of yips Jim Waldron from balance 442 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:48,400 point golf dot Com on our sister podcast, Golf Smarter Mulligans being released this 443 00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:52,039 Friday morning, So if you're a fan of Golf Smarter's content, then don't 444 00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:56,920 miss the chance to get two episodes every week. That's Golf Smarter, the 445 00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:02,960 longest running golf podcast, and golf Smarter Mulligans, episodes from our archives that 446 00:32:04,079 --> 00:32:08,319 revisits the best of Golf Smarter. They're both available for free from wherever you're 447 00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:17,279 listening right now. All right, Sarah, So now we've gone through these 448 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:24,599 the various handicap levels and what it takes to get them to improve bit by 449 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,319 bit, because it's not a quick process. I mean, it takes a 450 00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:36,559 while to go from a fifteen to a ten. It takes a long time 451 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:46,200 to do that. So who do you find is easier to teach to get 452 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:51,640 to that next level? The guy who's the nut I'm sorry, the person 453 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,559 who is a high handicapper and just trying to get to the next level, 454 00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:02,119 just trying to break ninety, or the skill golfer who's six and wants to 455 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:08,480 get to a three, which is a huge leap in consistency. What have 456 00:33:08,559 --> 00:33:15,599 you found so you can do more for the person who has the higher the 457 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:21,359 handicap goes, the more you can do for them. I think the gains 458 00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:24,519 are more significant. Right, You teach a thirty six handicap or how to 459 00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:30,559 put better and they could go down to an eighteen pretty quickly. Maybe right? 460 00:33:30,839 --> 00:33:34,319 But why I had this conversation with single digit people, I'm like, 461 00:33:34,359 --> 00:33:37,559 what are we doing? How are we measuring your success this year? They're 462 00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:38,359 like, why, I'm a five and I want to be two. I'm 463 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,519 like, okay, well that's really really hard to do. Let's just start 464 00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:47,440 with the idea that moving someone that has the lower the handicap, to move 465 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,359 them a number two is significantly harder. So I don't know that I have 466 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,240 a preference because we don't. We don't really measure the success in our teaching 467 00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:59,640 based on handicap lowering or raising, which would be a nice way to do 468 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,119 it. But I always like to work with people who are interested in learning, 469 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,039 whether it's a seven year old all the way up to a ninety something 470 00:34:07,119 --> 00:34:10,639 year old, I would I would always want to work with someone who's open 471 00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:15,079 minded, so that would not be relative to handicap. That might be just 472 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:19,840 relative to the person itself. Interesting. That's my favorite type of student is 473 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,360 an open minded student, curious, I'm into this being curious thing. Yeah, 474 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,960 so am I. That's why I'm still doing this podcast after nine hundred 475 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,840 plus episodes. I'm still curious, like, how do we do that? 476 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:40,880 How do we do that? So let's see. I once heard somebody say, 477 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,079 and I'd love your hit on this, trying to eliminate doubles is easier 478 00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:52,760 than trying to make more birdies. I mean that would be based on handicap 479 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,159 as well, going back to the kind of the flow that we're going with, 480 00:34:57,199 --> 00:35:00,840 Like you know, twenty handicapped birds. I mean, I don't A 481 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,000 twenty handicapper is not going to have very many opportunities to make a birdie. 482 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,920 Then maybe a five handicapper would have a tremendous amount of opportunity. So yeah, 483 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,960 I would say that that might very skill level based, doesn't I mean 484 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,800 what you I don't know if you would agree with that, but I kind 485 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,960 of feel like the variability there, the opportunity because sometimes putting for a bogey 486 00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:22,039 as a thirty six handicapper for the first time ever on a hole that you 487 00:35:22,119 --> 00:35:25,159 hit it or a water feels the same as trying to make a birdie. 488 00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:30,840 To shoot sixty five to a single digit. You know the value of that 489 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:37,840 emotional experience, right, I've never done that, but never shot at sixty 490 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:45,199 five? What's I guess shot sixty seven seven? Tournament? Yeah, just 491 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:51,239 fun golf, not tournament now, just golf at the Bears Club down in 492 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,239 Jupiter, Florida. But was pretty happy with that. I think tournament. 493 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:59,559 I think I was only I think I've only ever been two underparts. Nothing 494 00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:05,559 to you, but yeah, it's it's amazing to watch on you know, 495 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,119 the pros on television, and it's also very frustrating because it's like, I 496 00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:13,920 just want to see them screw up. It's like I love when they have 497 00:36:14,119 --> 00:36:16,239 bad holes, like, yeah, they play like we do, because this 498 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,880 you know, like yeah, well just you're gonna have to have a bogie 499 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,920 on this one, or you didn't have any bogies this this round. It's 500 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,480 like, how do you do that? Right? I don't. I don't 501 00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:30,719 get well. And I think that that's hard because we watch golf. Yeah, 502 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,360 we watch golf recreational for fun, and then we only see the good 503 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,639 shots. You know. The only time they pan in on someone about to 504 00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:38,840 do something, they're they're going to do something amazing or it's going to be 505 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,400 the worst thing you've ever seen in your life. There's no in between on 506 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:51,440 TV. You know, it's a well so you you watch it and it's 507 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,519 crazy and they I think people forget their like emotional people too. You know, 508 00:36:54,639 --> 00:36:58,239 this is their job and they're gonna screw up. I mean, look 509 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,679 at what Lucas Glover has done in the last two weeks. I mean, 510 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,960 back to back events. Amazing. He's forty four, I think, and 511 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,360 he's overcome some serious stuff with his putting and then to come and do what 512 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,840 he did, it's it's really neat to see and you want to root for 513 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,760 it because they're humans. Yeah. Well, I've been rooting big time for 514 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,320 him the last couple of weeks, mainly because he's using a lab Golf putter 515 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,159 themez won putter and I've been using a lab Golf putter for a while and 516 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,800 Sam Han from Lab Golf has been on the show multiple times, and so 517 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:36,920 when I see more and more people playing with that putter on TV, it's 518 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,880 like it's only going to be demanding for him, and I'm just so excited 519 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,719 for him. So yeah, and that he did have you know, they 520 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,159 all they keep talking about his putting yips, But they're not talking about the 521 00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:53,639 putter, except of course if if it's a you know, a major name 522 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,280 brand, then they'll bring up. And he's playing the new tailor made. 523 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,679 He's playing with the new Scottie Cameron. Yeah, you know, check out 524 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:07,480 that Lab Golf putter, folks, it's working for them. Adam Scott's using 525 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,239 it too, and there's a couple more guys out there. Now that's some 526 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,400 good street cred for that, for the Lab, the Lab Golf for sure. 527 00:38:15,519 --> 00:38:17,920 Seeing that back to back victory from someone who struggled with some putting professionally, 528 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,239 that's awesome. Yeah, it's really cool. You know, we talked 529 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,559 about shooting low scores, and a couple of weeks ago, Bryson shot that 530 00:38:27,679 --> 00:38:35,559 fifty eight and in his press conference he talked about when he was young, 531 00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:44,360 they would play from the front tis just to try to shoot sixty and I 532 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,159 thought that wasn't He says, once you get comfortable doing it that way, 533 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,159 then you start moving back and you know you can do it. So I 534 00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:57,000 emailed a friend of mine who I'm We're very competitive. We play very closely 535 00:38:57,079 --> 00:39:00,519 together. You know, one or two strokes were always tied by the seventeenth 536 00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:04,400 hole. It's crazy. And I asked him, do you think you could 537 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,320 shoot par if you played from the front tees And he's like, well, 538 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,599 which course, which teas? And I'm like, that sounds like a no. 539 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,000 If you have to ask questions like that, that sounds like a no. 540 00:39:20,519 --> 00:39:22,920 But I'm I want to challenge him. It's like, you know, 541 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,199 let's go out and play the front ties and see how low if we can 542 00:39:25,199 --> 00:39:30,840 shoot par. I think he'd be too embarrassed. I think people would like, 543 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:35,679 well, there's, oh my god, the ego thing. It's like, 544 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,920 wait a minute, that's just give it a shot and see what happens. 545 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,119 Yeah, but people are looking, why are you guys playing from there? 546 00:39:40,119 --> 00:39:44,480 It's because we want to have low scores. I play from the white 547 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,840 tees regularly, and that's because I don't feel like I need to make golf 548 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,199 harder than it already is. Golf's hard enough. Why do I have to 549 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:59,960 keep moving back? I would say that that's probably the biggest, most frustrating 550 00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:06,639 part of the coaching standpoint is everyone's playing the wrong tees for how far they 551 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:14,119 hit their tea shot in their perception of their total yardage off the tea and 552 00:40:14,159 --> 00:40:17,119 what is mathematically they're able to do with their golf sowing usually aren't close. 553 00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:20,400 You know, I hit it two eighty. I'm like, you don't hit 554 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,679 it two eighty unless you hit a sprinkler head and then you know your superintendent 555 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,719 has it, you know. But yeah, I mean the Bryson thing was 556 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,840 very good for golf because it helped kind of gave it a narrative to continue 557 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,760 to have the conversations with your junior golfers and then your everyday golfers, even 558 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,639 not not necessarily every day, but the ones that are these the guys that 559 00:40:38,639 --> 00:40:40,599 are trying to play or women they're trying to play in a mid am. 560 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,639 Maybe you know, they played college golf and then they got into the workforce 561 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,000 and now they remember at a club and they want to get back to playing 562 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:52,159 competitively. It's like Bryson, that's a good conversation for people to have. 563 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:53,719 Now it's like, oh, maybe we should put our kids all the way 564 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,920 up on the family teas until they break part three times and then move them 565 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,519 back to the forward tees and then moving back, moving back, moving back. 566 00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:05,800 But it's hard to talk parents and kids and doing stuff like that. 567 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,960 Yeah, you know. Yeah, the ego thing, it's good. It's 568 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:16,679 good. It's good to feel comfortable. Well, yeah, that would be 569 00:41:16,679 --> 00:41:22,280 the point. The only way to play good golf that I've found is when 570 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,119 you're comfortable and confident. Confidence it makes all the difference in the world. 571 00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:30,320 If you're shaking when you're standing over a put you ain't gonna make it, 572 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,280 yeah, or you might. You might hit it poorly and I'll go in, 573 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,679 but it's probably not going to be your most confident looking putt exactly. 574 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,639 Or or the guy who's like, yeah, I hit my drive two eighty. 575 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:51,320 No, you may have hit your drive two eighty once downhill hitting the 576 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,920 card path. I mean, you don't hit the your drives two eighty. 577 00:41:55,639 --> 00:42:00,239 And that's something like we talked about Arcos earlier. It's like I'm finding out 578 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,280 it's like, oh, I guess all right, well I'm not averaging as 579 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,280 far as I thought I was off the tee. Okay, I'd better adjust 580 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:13,159 that. Well, that's what it is. I think also for anyone listening 581 00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:17,079 that plays, it's like it's an average your yardage total carry, you know, 582 00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:20,239 like how far you hit it in the air. It's not your best 583 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,639 seven iron you've ever hit in your entire life on the driving range that flew 584 00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:25,840 in the air one hundred and sixty yards, it's you might actually hit someone 585 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,719 twenty five. So you have to start looking at you're talking about scoring, 586 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,440 It's like how far does your ball travel in the air, not how far 587 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,559 does it go completely until it comes to a stop. That's a big difference 588 00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:44,960 as well. Oh no, you just burst a bubble. I'm sorry. 589 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:52,159 This has been awesome, Sarah. Now you work at a private course in 590 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:58,800 the DC area. Do you give lessons to only members or do you also 591 00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:02,119 all out able to reach out to you? So I'm happy to have people 592 00:43:02,199 --> 00:43:07,639 reach out for help, maybe some online stuff. They keep me fairly busy 593 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:12,760 there at this facility. We have a very large membership group, and I'm 594 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,239 into my third year right now, and so trying to find time to help 595 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,760 people outside of that club right now is not it's not really in the cards, 596 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,960 but doing stuff on my own or general questions or even some online coach 597 00:43:23,039 --> 00:43:28,920 now stuff I'm happy to help help with, and I'm going to be doing 598 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,920 a lot more with with some golf dot Com stuff. So you'll see some 599 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:36,960 stuff coming through via email and on their than their website for sure. Yeah, 600 00:43:37,119 --> 00:43:42,039 that's find and I have a nice Instagram, my Instagram account, which 601 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,280 is it's actually was designed to help people like yourself, who'd be like, 602 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,000 I can't remember what you said the other day. I'm like, well, 603 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,800 here's the drill. It's on my Instagram account, go find it. Because 604 00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:53,360 it was just like constantly just sending the same information at like twelve people. 605 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,840 So that one Stone Golf Sense, and that has a lot of stuff on 606 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,639 their books about out golf, maybe different little ideas on how to fix something, 607 00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:06,960 how to hold the club differently to help the ball flight. There's just 608 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,599 a lot of content on there related to understanding golf that might help some of 609 00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:15,559 the people listening as well. Awesome. So that's Stone Golf Sense, Yeah, 610 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:20,280 on Instagram. Yeah, that would probably the easiest place to find me 611 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,239 for help or yeah, if you're in this area, I'm happy to, 612 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,000 like I said, if there's time. Sometimes we have some slow, slow 613 00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:30,519 months here depending on the weather. Yeah, right, that's when we're not 614 00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:32,840 coming out to play golf. Oh, Sarah, this has been a lot 615 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:38,480 of fun, and thanks so much for your insights and sharing your history with 616 00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:43,760 us. I really enjoyed it, and I really enjoy your work online too, 617 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,400 so keep up the great work. Thank you, Fred, Thanks for 618 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,400 the opportunity to get to know you and spend some time with you. Two 619 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,639 great questions, and I really enjoyed having to think through some of these answers. 620 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,719 Now back in episode nine hundred, finally got to meet my wife Joanne 621 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:05,639 and hear all about the book she just wrote and published. She's doing a 622 00:45:05,639 --> 00:45:10,000 lot of bookstore, library and book club talks lately and this coming week is 623 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:15,360 no different. So if you've read the book By Accident, a memoir of 624 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,400 Letting Go, which also has a lot about me in our relationship in there, 625 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,960 I'd like to update you on some upcoming talks that she's doing, and 626 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,599 if you're in the area, please come by say hi to both of us. 627 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,159 Love to meet you. On Thursday, September seventh, this is twenty 628 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:37,679 twenty three, we'll be at Zibbie's Bookstore in Santa Monica, and then we'll 629 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:42,599 be in Annie Bloom's Books in Portland, Oregon on September twenty first, then 630 00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:46,079 back to California for an appearance at Murphy's Library up in the Gold Country of 631 00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:52,880 Northern California and Murphy's California on September twenty eight. In October, will be 632 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,400 in Baltimore, Virginia and Washington, DC, where she's going to be speaking 633 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,599 to various book clubs. She's been doing that a lot too, and appearing 634 00:46:00,679 --> 00:46:05,840 on a lot of podcasts. If I didn't mention your city and you're interested 635 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,320 in learning more, please visit Joanne dash Green. That's jo A n n 636 00:46:10,519 --> 00:46:17,559 E dash g r e e n E Joan Dashgreen dot com to get the 637 00:46:17,599 --> 00:46:22,039 full story. I do want to welcome this week's Golf Smarter Ambassador, Eric 638 00:46:22,159 --> 00:46:29,000 Amil of Traver's City, Michigan. Like so many of the Golf Smarter Ambassadors 639 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:34,079 before him, Eric chose to receive a link to Tony Manzoni's Lost Fundamental video 640 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,920 as his free thank you gift. And what about you, We'd all like 641 00:46:39,039 --> 00:46:43,599 to hear where you live, play and listen to Golf Smarter. Send me 642 00:46:43,639 --> 00:46:47,039 an email and you two can receive a free gift of your choice just for 643 00:46:47,159 --> 00:46:53,159 participating. Gifts include Tony Manzoni's video, a box of Odin X one balls 644 00:46:53,199 --> 00:46:59,159 with a Golf Smarter logo, or a glove and glove storage compartment from Red 645 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,840 Rooster golf dot com. I'm going to leave a link in the show notes 646 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:07,880 and today's blog post so you can look up all of those items. Please 647 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,840 write to me and I'll get back to you with some instructions of what to 648 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,400 do and what to say. Of course, send your request to golf Smarter 649 00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:20,800 Podcast at gmail dot com, or click on the Hey Fred button at golf 650 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:27,199 smarter dot com, and please follow us at golf Smarter on YouTube, TikTok, 651 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,719 Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter to see our ongoing posts of 652 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:37,880 videos and articles. For the last three months, we've been putting up four 653 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:42,280 videos every week and we're going to continue to do that for another full year 654 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,519 to give exposure to these incredible instructors that we have and let you follow and 655 00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:52,320 get a hint of what's coming up on future episodes. If you have any 656 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:59,039 questions, comments, or suggestions for upcoming episodes, please click on the Hey 657 00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:04,239 Fred button when you visit goulfsmarter dot com.