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Hello, I'm John Allre. Before
you listen to this episode, a couple

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of things. These are podcasts from
the first season of Who Killed Teresa.

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They haven't been heard in over four
years. They're raw. It took me

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a while to develop a style.
A lot of people like them that way,

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unvarnished. Others commented that it was
amateurish. Nonetheless, here they are.

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I'm edited. I haven't gone back
and listened to them, I haven't

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cleaned them up. Thanks for listening. And once again, life isn't fair.

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Justice is blind and dysfunctional, and
some cops aren't smart and dedicated like

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on television. This is Who Killed
Teresa. Welcome to the podcast This Is

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Who Killed Teresa? And I'm your
host, John Alor. This is a

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podcast about the unsolved murder from nineteen
seventy eight of my sister Teresa Lare,

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but also two other unsolved murders from
that era. The three cases that happened

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within a nineteen month period in the
eastern townships of Quebec around the city of

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Sherbrooke, Quebec, and the other
cases are the unsolved murders of Louis Camlan

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and the death of Manon Dubay and
subsequently I've done an investigation to a number

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of unsolved murders in Quebec that spanned
from nineteen seventy five to nineteen eighty one

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and geographically spent that Sherbrooke area all
the way of far West as Montreal.

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And those related cases are the murders
of Sharon cry Or, Lee Choquette,

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Luise Cameron, Jacqueline Whole, Chantelle
Tromblaine, Joan and Doctrine. Helen monasked

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Catherine Hawks, Dennis Basis name manolds
Bay, he's on Blade, Teresa or

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Nicole Goodreau, Tammy Leaky, and
Joan Lena, And I was a listener

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friend who was commenting that they thought
I was getting a little model and sentimental

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lately, and it's it's really not
the case. It's more a matter of

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not having anything related to these cases
related to go back to report on.

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So I kind of went astray.
But today I think what would be beneficial

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is if we did, like a
clean up episode, maybe we touch back

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on some matters and give you an
update on certain cases in issues related to

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those cases. So that will be
the substance of today's podcast. It's a

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whole lot of me talking Oh boy, hazy day with lazy Way. I

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want to start with the offender.
We've we've talked a lot here about Luke

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Gregoire. In fact, there's if
you go back and look, there's an

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entire episode devoted to the offender,
Luke Gregoire. And as I say,

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we could spend a whole episode on
Luke, but I'll give you the short

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version here. So Luke was arrested
in the early nineties in Calgary, Alberta.

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He murdered a young woman there and
was incarcerated, But prior to that

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he had a long criminal history in
Quebec, particularly in the town of Sherbrook.

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In nineteen eighty one, he was
arrested for the attempted sexual assault and

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attempted murder of a young woman in
a parking garage not far from where Luis

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Camera lived and worked in eighty one. And so Greg Gregoire has always been

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a suspect around these matters because of
where he's he's traveled. In seventy six

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he joined the Quebec or the Canadian
Airborne Regiment. By some accounts that I've

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heard, he was forced to do
that. He was given an ultimatum,

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you either joined the military or you
go to jail. So in the time

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since we've last discussed greg war,
there's there's a long criminal history there that

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started in his adolescence that although there's
no there's no records of it, it's

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through family and friends. It is
the oral history of Luke has has been

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been delivered. And what is interesting
about him is Okay, so he joins

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the Airborne, as I said,
in seventy six, and he's kicked out

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I believe in the late seventies.
I think it is seventy nine, but

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he's he's active in the area between
seventy six and eighty one, which,

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as I said on the opening,
is the corridor for these unsolved murders and

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the truck of it is trying to
really locate. So where was Gregoire in

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the time that he enlisted in the
Airborne? Okay, you got a factor

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in he enlists, he's going to
do his training in Edmonton, Alberta.

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So that's the connection with the western
provinces of Canada, and the Airborne was

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stationed in Montreal, Quebec in seventy
six. They did some security work with

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the nineteen seventy six Olympics, so
that gives some justification to be there.

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Also justification to be up the river
in Petawuahwa, which is just a little

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it's an army base or a military
base north of Ottawa. Of course,

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his family lives in Sherbrook. He
grew up in a house across the river

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from where Louise Cameron kept an apartment
you just crossed. On one end of

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the bridge is the home where he
grew up in. On the other end

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of the bridge is this small convenience
store where him around was last scene,

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So it's justification to be there.
And then further the airborne Canadian Airborne would

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have spent some time in Baden Baden, Germany, So at what point,

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if any, was he there.
So the trick of it was to try

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to get some information on his whereabouts
in this period. And so the way

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I started was I went to the
Calgary police and I went to the Quebec

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police because of what I said at
the beginning of this, they would both

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have reasons to have a long police
file on Greg Wire. Initially I talked

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with the cold case unit in Calgary, which consists of one person, and

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I think she said she manages sixty
cases, and she seemed in our conversation

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to be relatively new to the appointment. And as she said, she said,

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my hands are tied. I can't
show you anything which is suspect.

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Nevertheless, what are you going to
do? They have all the power.

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So I did. I did put
in a FOIA request with Calgary's investigative unit,

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and what they came back with was
was disappointing. You can only access

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a file after somebody has been deceased
for twenty five years, so with Greg

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War, we got to wait another
twenty three years before we wouldn't know anything.

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So this this led back to the
Sartet de Quebec. In this time

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I had had put in sort of
parallel requests to both agencies, and it

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took it took forever for us to
connect, partly because of conflicting vacations,

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also because they had to, as
they said, allegedly put in a request

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with the Canadian Armed Forces to get
some kind of an idea on a timeline

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of Greg War's whereabouts. And uh, and I think we talked about this

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before, where we kind of you
kind of say, wait a minute,

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you investigated this guy so thoroughly before
you you had you had him take a

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polygraph. You you you set up
a plant in his cell to obtain information,

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and you never went to the trouble
of getting a timeline. And I

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do I do you know? I
recall a conversation years ago with the then

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detective who was working the the Gregoire
line quite aggressively named Eric Littour, and

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I seemed to recall a conversation where
he said he wasn't there, which is

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meant he wasn't in Sherbrooke, Quebec
November third, nineteen seventy eight, the

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date that Teresa went missing, and
um, possibly died that day. We

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assumed she died that day. UM, but I don't know what that.

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First of all, I don't even
recall if that conversation was even occurred,

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or if I'm remembering it wrong,
or maybe I got some information wrong.

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I don't have it documented, unfortunately, but even if it were true,

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what that was based on. But
my contact with Quebec finally came back and

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he said, and he was very
very vague about all of this, And

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I'm not about to drop some major
piece of case evidence. What I'm about

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to drop is tremendously disappointing and all
too typical with these matters. Nevertheless,

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let's let it drop. He said, So what he said contradicted what Latour

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What I remember Latour saying. He
said, the Canadian military said Gregoire was

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in the area or could have been
in the area in nineteen in nineteen seventy

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eight eight, And when I pressed
him on other aspects of the timeline,

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he was very vague and unresponsive to
that. I drew his attention that we

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weren't only talking about a pin point
November third, nineteen seventy eight. What

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we were talking about, we're whereabouts
between seventy five and eighty one, because

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of course there are fifteen other unsolved
cases that we're dealing with. He seemed

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to shrug that off, and when
pressed what he deflected When when pressed for

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some information on a timeline he events, he eventually fell back into a defensive

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position of saying, listen, he
passed a polograph, and the polographic evidence

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is full proof, and for this
reason we believe that Luke Gregoire is not

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responsible for the murder of Teresa Lord, never mind the other cases. Because

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I said, when you administered the
polygraph, you were specific to Teresa.

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Correct, you were not talking about
other murders, to which he said,

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correct, we were only addressing the
Teresa Laar case. I said, well,

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we still have fourteen other unanswered questions. This is interesting because a couple

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of months ago, when I initially
brought this subject up about a timeline the

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police contact with the Serte de Quebec
retreated into a defensive position only with another

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piece of circumstantial, circumstantial evidence.
At that time, when pressed, they

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deflected to the position of saying we
have the best, we have the best

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behavioral profilers on this, and they
believe that that Greg war is not the

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guy. And in both cases,
you know, we're talking about police techniques

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that are highly suspect. Both I've
mentioned before that even the best profile is

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you know, the you'd be better
off with luck. They're about as um

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full proof as luck. And the
same is true for polygraphs. They're they're

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they're about as defensible as as luck. Read to you. The William William

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Ayakono was a professor of psychology and
neuroscience at the University of Minnesota, speaking

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talking about polographs, and he says, although the c QT control question test

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maybe, and that's what a polograph
is. May be useful as an investigative

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aid and tool to induce confessions,
it does not pass muster as a scientifically

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credible test. QT theory is based
on naive implausible as os, indicating a

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that it is biased against innocent individuals
and b that it can be beaten simply

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by artificially augmenting responses to control questions. Although it is not possible to adequately

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assess the error rate of the CQT, both of these conclusions are supported by

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published research findings in the best social
science journals, and in particular, there's

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an awful lot of evidence and research
you can do that indicating that false positives

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do occur with polygraphs, in particularly
when you're dealing with cases of sexual assault,

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which of course that's what we would
be dealing with with Luke Gregoire.

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So to have so much confidence in
a behavioral profile and polygraph evidence is suspect

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and should not be trusted. And
I think we should continue to to consider

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mister Gregoire is a very very plausible
um plausible offender in all of these cases,

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not least of which is Teresa Lore. Also, every true crime listener

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out there will cite the fact that
Gary Ridgeway Green River Killer, passed a

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polygraph in the eighties and then went
on to commit some of his most us

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crimes. There's one final element that
I'll drop in here that I don't think

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I've discussed before, of why I
think there's there should be renewed um interest

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in Luke Greg war Um. Back
back when these these cases originally appeared in

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the National Post under who Killed Teresa
and we were talking about three the original

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three unsolved Teresa Amenjonza Bay and Louise
Can. Obviously, from that came forward

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an awful lot of information and I've
documented, i think on the second podcast,

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sort of history of sexual violence and
assaults in the Eastern Townships in the

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years leading up to Teresa's murder.
A lot of that came from research,

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but some of it also came from
people just coming forward and emailing me.

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Now. One one woman who came
forward cited the case an incident that happened

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to her in nineteen seventy six in
Montreal, and at that time she was

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working at CFB Montreal, the Canadian
Forces base in Montreal, and the base

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is was and I believe still is
down by the port in Montreal. It's

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sort of just just southeast of the
stet Quebec had quarters and a little bit

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east of where the Molson Brewery is, if you can kind of envision that,

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I believe that's where CFB Montreal is. So she's working there. In

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nineteen seventy six, she's hitchhiking one
night with a friend and two people pick

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her up, and they're described The
driver is described as an older man and

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his person riding in the passenger seat
with him is described as a younger man

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with a military haircut, and the
women are in the back of the seat,

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at the back seat of the car. And at one point I think

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they pull into the rail yards and
the attack begins. They start attacking them,

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hitting them about the head. One
of the woman's extinguishes her cigarette in

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the guy's face toward him off.
They jump out of the car, they

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run, they hide in the bushes, and it ends. And this incident

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was brought to my attention and documented, but I omitted it from a lot

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of the documentation on the website because
at that time, I mean, it

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was interesting, but at that time, in terms of time and place,

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it appeared like an outliar. They
were talking about seventy six, which was

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worlds away from nineteen seventy eight,
or it felt like it, and they

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were talking about Montreal, and at
that time I wasn't looking at cases in

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Montreal. What is interesting about it
in retrospect now that case is they the

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woman worked at CFB Montreal. As
we've cited, this is the base where

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the airborne was stationed in seventy six
in Montreal during the time of the Montreal

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Olympics. So if greg War was
in Montreal at that time, he would

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have been there. They describe a
younger man who has a military haircut.

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Again, a young Gregoire would have
been had a military haircut at that time.

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And so so there's this associations both
with the base and both you know,

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with with Greg War's lifestyle at that
time, which is tantalizing. It's

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it's it's nothing definite, it's uh, it's a very secondary matter. But

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nevertheless you kind of go, um, you know, what if we knew

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more, What if we had a
complete access to these files, both the

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Calgary files and Montreal files and whatever
information the the Canadian military has on on

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Luke Greguar. What might we be
able to discover that that is currently not

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known in the matter of greg War's
affairs. You know, we have some

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information of his criminal activities, and
as I said, it's it's coming out

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now that this guy was a bad
penny man. He was. It's well

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known that his history of of violent
activities started very very young. There's there's

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some indication that he was given an
ultimatum to basically leave society and let the

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military either straighten him out or eventually
deal with him, so the society didn't

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have to to to clean up his
mess in some in some cases and who

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knows was he was he responsible for
any or some of these crimes At this

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point, we um, it's it's
indefinitive. We don't know about to admit.

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I want to, I want to
switch gears now. I want to.

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I want to give a bit of
an update on another case that we

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briefly talked about. But um,
there's not a lot of information known about

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it, but something, something has
come forward in the case of Lee a

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Shock Cats. Now, if you
recall, Chaquette is one of the fifteen

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unsolved. She disappeared about three weeks
after Sharon Pryor's body was found. Sharon

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was found April first, seventy five. Chaquette disappears at the end of April

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nineteen seventy five. She lives in
the east end of Montreal, so she's

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not far from that cluster of cases
where Denis Basie lived and Lesson Blay lived.

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And in the case of Charquette,
Chaquette is found off the island in

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Laval. In fact, she's found
right around one of the areas where they're

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constructing the Laval Auto Route, the
main highway that goes through the island of

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Laval. She's strangled and beaten.
She strangled presumably with a necktie, and

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her clothes are or taken off the
body. They're found in a pile about

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two hundred feet I believe from from
the body um and there's no there's no

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immediate evidence of a rape, meaning
there's no sperm in the vagina clinically but

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um. Again, with a lot
of these cases, a violent I would

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I would still call it a sex
crime. Now we've chal Kenny is not

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a is not a case that I
found through original research. It came to

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me through the the documentary filmmaker Stepan
paran so in in that sense, it's

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it's always been Steph's case, and
I've kind of tagged along with it and

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shared the information. He brought it
to my attention, and Steph announced on

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his website Seth Fam last week that
there had been that he's working in collaboration

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with the Love Police and there that
have there have been some developments developments in

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the Chakat case, possibly related to
some of the other cases in the vicinity

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where she lived. So I can
only assume that means Besyne and Blae that

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he wouldn't say specifically what those developments
were, but it's refreshing. It's refreshing

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to see that somebody on the ground
is approaching matters with continued vigor, and

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we'll hope to get more updates on
that. Steph posted a photo from the

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crime scene that I had never seen
before. I will share that on my

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website in associated materials with this podcast. And what's so very very important if

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there is if we are to assume
a link with some of these cases,

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let's let's keep in mind this choquette
disappears from the east end of Montreal but

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found in Laval, so a Laval
case in Laval Police's jurisdiction. Lesonblais is

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attacked and murdered in her backyard in
the East End of Montreal. So a

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case of the Montreal Police, the
SPPVM. And then finally uh Denise Basiay

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Basia again lives in the East End, but her body is found near Saint

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Jean Richelieu, so a Sertiti Quebec
case. Again three agencies. You hope

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to God that they are working as
a team in conjunction with each other and

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sharing information. But even in an
initial pass you can you can see the

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disparity in the level of service.
You go to see the Quebec's cold case

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00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:10.079
website. I, um, I
don't believe Basia is up yet on on

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the website. Um. Actually,
you know what, Let's just confirm that

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right now. Let's have a let's
have a peak and see if things have

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changed. Nope, no Basia.
UM. I think the last time I

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talked, I was given some some
horseshit about they needed a family consent.

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Um. I know her brother,
there's nothing he'd want more. I don't

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know why. I don't know why
Basia's not up there. Um. And

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then and Laval doesn't even have a
cold case site. And then, of

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course, as we've documented, the
Montreal Police just started their cold case website

251
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and and notoriously um started it with
the moniker that said we have no cold

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cases. They've changed that to say
site under construction. God bless them.

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But having gone to the Serte to
Quebec sight just now, holy crap,

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you know who is on here now? Louise Camera is finally on this site.

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There it is Louise Camera, twenty
years old at the time, was

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last seen on March twenty third,
seventy seven, at eight pm at the

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Provisoire convenience store located at seventeen eighty
King Street West in Sherbrooke. According to

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the business owner, she browsed through
a few magazines and then left for the

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bus stop. The stop is situated
on her usual way home. On March

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twenty fifth, nineteen seventy seven,
the victim's body was discovered along McDonnell Road,

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near Guierre Road now Duval Road in
Austin Magog. If you have information

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that could help solve this crime,
contact the Saint Crau the infieldo Mession Criminel

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of Serte de Quebec at one eight
hundred six five nine four two six four

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Of all the families, I would
call the Camera family the most resistant two

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um wanting to get involved in these
matters, and yet there's Camera's information on

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their website. So if if Camera's
family is the most resistant, and yet

267
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they there's Camera's information, there should
be no more reason why the other cases

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aren't on these cool case sites.
Just like a run. So back to

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Choquette. Hopefully we'll get some updates
and developments from step Parent and and since

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we're talking a little bit about steph
Um, I will add he had a

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he had an event yesterday afternoon.
M he I think he screened ten minutes

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of the film set Fam. You'll
recall m seth Fam documents seven of the

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fifteen cases I'm talking about, one
of which is Teresa's and Louise's. Actually

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Louise Camerona is in there. And
and he had he had a screening of

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some of the footage and sort of
a meeting I think a Q and a

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etc. In h I think that
was Insane Nustash, just north of Laval.

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Interesting well, victims were meeting in
Sane Nustash to talk about cold cases.

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The Hell's Angels were meeting in Saint
Hyacinth to the south east at some

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00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:07.440
market or or something. I don't
know. There's there's a dustop about the

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Quebec Hell's Angels. UM amassing strength
again in Quebec, as you as you

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might well imagine. So UM I
have not heard back UM any additional information

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on what came of the screening of
set FAM's Set Fam. Hopefully we'll hear

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him hear more of that last I
heard. I do think the he's sticking

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with the schedule of a release date
of November. This November twenty seventeen.

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In other news, UM, there
were there were parole hearings this summer for

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two well known offenders, at least
well known for Quebec. The first was

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the parole hearing of Jean Paul Bainbridge. Now we've not I don't we've only

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touched on the case of Isabelle Bulldoc. But in nineteen ninety six Bulldoc was

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abducted, sequestered, raped and murdered
by by three guys. Jean Paul Bainbridge

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was was the main offender, but
assisted by Marcel Blanchette and Guy la Bontee.

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And this occurred in in Sherbrooke.
For many of us, it's it's

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kind of it's kind of seen as
a harbinger of of further Quebec of violence.

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Of course, five years after that
you have the you have the assault

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of rape and murder of Pierre Boevenu's
daughter usually a Bivenu. But and it's

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interesting Bainbridge was was a lifer without
the possibility of paroles for twenty years.

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The twenty years are up, and
so he he had his parole hearing where

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he requested day passes and he was
refused. Isabel's father, Marcel Bulldock,

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who I know somewhat, I know
him enough to talk to, showed up

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and at the hearing Marcel indicated that
he thought one day that Bainbridge would He

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said, it's inevitable that he will
be eventually granted parole, but he felt

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for at the moment that being released
on day passes was unjustified, that he

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had not fully rehabilitated to the point
where the community should feel secure. Now

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contrast this with the other parole hearing
that that occurred for the offender in the

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usualie Boa. The new case,
Hugo Bernier had a hearing again another in

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00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:21.400
this case, no possibility of parole
for fifteen years um and was denied and

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00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:24.960
Pierre's response in the press was Pierre's
quite vocal, some of you know,

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00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:32.000
he's he's. Pierre was one of
the original sort of new wave of victim

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victim's advocates, along with Marcel.
Actually I think originally that there were four

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of them known as the forefathers Frere. It was more it was Marcel Bulduc,

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Pierre Bouvenus, um Julie seprans Father, and I think the fourth was

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00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:59.039
Johnny good Bow. Natalie Goodbow's disappeared
from Quebec city in the nineties, I

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00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.319
believe, and has never been found
anyway. The four of them were sort

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00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:07.200
of on the in the vanguard of
victim's advocacy. Pierre famously went on to

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00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:14.640
found with some of the others have
Pad Association of Families have Murdered and Missing

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Children. And then subsequently it's Stephen
Harper, then Prime Minister of Canada,

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00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:30.160
made Pierra senator Senator Waveno, and
I would characterize him is a conservative in

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00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:38.200
terms of his his beliefs on incarceration, etc. And his belief is that

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00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:46.599
the offender in that case Hugo Bernier
will will never will never be fully rehabilitated,

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00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:52.960
although that there might be elements there
that are extremely personal, I wouldn't

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00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:58.920
want to judge or characterize his thinking
in that anyway. So those those both

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00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:04.200
have gone on um this summer in
the province of Quebec, and we will

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00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:12.000
be hearing more from these offenders as
they continue to request the Canadian or the

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00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:32.320
Quebec Parole Board for increased access into
the community. Other news, I think

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in an early podcast we talked about
the Murder Accountability Project and you can find

325
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:47.599
that website at Murder murdered Data dot
org where a number of researchers, including

326
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:57.400
Mike Arnfield, have created this this
database um of all the information contained in

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00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:05.119
the Part one and Part two crime
reports for various jurisdictions, and with that

328
00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:09.880
you can go on and research homicide
clearance rates for the last I think fifty

329
00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:15.800
years, and certainly they even they've
even made it easier now where you can

330
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:22.760
look at clusters by county and by
urban police force and kind of be your

331
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:29.000
own be your own detective with that
information. They're asking for assistance from not

332
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:34.079
only law enforcement, but for the
from the public where you where you see

333
00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:42.000
these these obvious clusters of cases of
unsolved cases, to to try and in

334
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:46.960
assist in clearing them. The goal
is to clear cases well related to that.

335
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:52.119
Ever since then, I myself in
a colleague, well mostly the colleague

336
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:58.239
not me, have been working on
something similar for Canada and I'd call it

337
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:07.159
UH murder accountability to light because as
we've discussed, the information you can you

338
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:09.599
can is much more limited that you
can get in Canada for these types of

339
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:15.440
things. But nevertheless, we did
get a data set from stats can um

340
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:22.559
which includes the the solved and unsolved
rates UM for various Uh it's not by

341
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:27.880
jurisdiction, it's it's by currently.
What we have up on the on the

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00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:36.639
in tableau in U in a public
kind of beta test mode is some municipalities

343
00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:44.280
in Canada and we're asking people to
to to go there and and play around

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00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.920
with the data and tell us what
you think. What we've posted is from

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00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:53.400
nineteen ninety two through two thy fifteen. And what's significant about that is I

346
00:36:53.480 --> 00:37:00.800
think we've talked about the Policy Center
for Victims Issues with Justice Canada about it

347
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:08.039
over a decade ago did quite an
extensive report on homicide in Canada from believe

348
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:13.519
nineteen seventy five to two thousand and
five. So we've now gone and extended

349
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:20.079
it to have an addition, an
extra ten years of data. We've filled

350
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:25.719
in the five to fifteen portion of
that and and our goal is to add

351
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.719
we have the data back to seventy
five as well, we're going to add

352
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:34.199
that, and we're also going to
add provincial and territorial information as well.

353
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Um shouldn't be no surprise that in
the first glance you'll see that when we're

354
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:49.480
talking ninety two to twenty and fifteen, the underperformers are. And you can

355
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:54.639
you can glean from the said the
municipality who the police agency is. So

356
00:37:54.760 --> 00:38:00.360
if if the data says Montreal,
that's the SPV, that's the Montreal Urban

357
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:07.239
Force and they have one of the
lowest homicide clarence rates for that period,

358
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:12.519
I think the lowest of all the
urban areas we looked at, as as

359
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:21.679
well as Vancouver is pretty low as
well. And then you'll see some Quebec

360
00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:25.679
is very efficient. The City of
Quebec, I mean that they they're notorious

361
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:32.199
for having very very few murders.
The exception of course recently of the the

362
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:37.079
mosque shootings that occurred, which because
there's such a low murder ring in Quebec

363
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:45.519
City that for obvious the reasons shocked
that community. The u ULR on that

364
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:50.079
is, I couldn't verbally say it, but I will. I'll put the

365
00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:54.280
link up on the Teresa Lore website. And again, as I say,

366
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:59.840
we'd like you to go and play
with it. Tell us what you think,

367
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:04.599
which you think works, what doesn't
work. As I say, you

368
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:09.039
know, it's not as robust as
the Murder Accountability Project stuff, but I

369
00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:16.199
think on one level, it's extremely
helpful to just visualize the data geographically.

370
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:22.239
It's that's a whole lot more interesting
than just looking at raw numbers. So

371
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:25.000
it's helpful there. And as I
say, when we get the provincial and

372
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:29.880
territorial information on that, that will
tell an additional story that I think you'll

373
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:36.079
find very interesting. We're very we're
very interested in the territorial data. We

374
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:42.800
know that the number of incidents will
of course be lower than some large urban

375
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:47.639
populations, but I'm sure no less
telling and I'm sure I'm guessing one of

376
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:57.960
the stories it will tell is just
how much how much homicide potentially potentially is

377
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:13.320
going undocumented in in some of these
communities. Give me about it, give

378
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:29.880
me a mind me. I do
want to end today's podcast with one final

379
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:37.920
update, and it's a subject I've
I've been avoiding UM. A while ago.

380
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:43.039
I had mentioned that I had applied
for I applied for a job in

381
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:53.159
Canada to become Cannon's federal ombitsment for
victims of crime and well UM. About

382
00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:58.000
a month ago, the Canadian government
flied me up to Ottawa to interview for

383
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:02.119
that position. So I I went
to Ottawa, I went to Parliament Hill,

384
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:08.280
I met with I guess a team
of senior policy analysts answered their questions.

385
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:14.480
It was about an hour long interview. And that's That's kind of all

386
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:17.920
I'm really going to say about it
at this point, UM, because the

387
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:24.599
process is in play, it's not
it's not finished yet, and it would

388
00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:30.280
be I don't think in anyone's interest
for me to to comment on that or

389
00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:37.679
speculate um in um in any level
of detail, except to say that I

390
00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:45.159
went there, I did it.
I was sincere in uh in my actions

391
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:51.840
about it, UM, my level
of interest with it, and after that

392
00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:55.159
process plays out, I'll have more
to say with it. I do want

393
00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:01.880
to say one thing, um,
because it's an aspect that weighs on the

394
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:09.920
heavily um and the interview on Victimology
with Joann Wemmer's touched on it um.

395
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:15.320
But I want to I want to
talk about a little a little more.

396
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:20.440
In her book on Victimology, A
Canadian Perspective, when she's going through the

397
00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:27.800
history of victimology and in Canada,
she cites the you know, the the

398
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:37.199
early grassroots efforts, the creation of
a pad by Pierre Boivlous, the creation

399
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:47.800
of caveat by Priscilla d'a villiers,
Toronto based advocate whom was advocating against gun

400
00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:53.519
violence in the in the wake of
the murder of her daughter. Certainly the

401
00:42:53.599 --> 00:43:04.800
creation of rivcom host the biker wars
in quebec Um something she says that is

402
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:09.360
interesting. I'll just read it from
the book. This is from Victimology in

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Canada. The recruitment of victims rights
leaders such as Priscilla da Villiers and Senator

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00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:23.400
Pierre Hugh Boevenux into government is an
excellent example of the the coopting of victims.

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The government usurps strong vocal leaders for
victims rights once they are part of

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00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:47.039
the government they lose their independence and
their ability to critique government policy. So

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I guess I would just say that
it's something I'm aware of. It's it's

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sub thing that is in my is
in the back of my mind and has

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been through this entire process of from
from research and application to the interview in

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00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:22.039
Ottawa to to now other considerations,
and it's um it is a prime factor

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in my decision making process. This
uh, this notion of co opting of

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the victim's voice. I don't think
there's anything nefarious there or um um,

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you know, malicious in or deliberate. I think it's it's that's why I'm

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kind of very, very weary of
it. I think it's a natural tendency

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00:44:54.000 --> 00:45:00.480
that happens, and that's why I
think you need to be vigilant. If

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there's going to be an ambusman with
a voice, a voice for victims,

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00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:09.000
then that it needs to be an
objective voice. It needs to be able

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00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:15.239
to stand apart from maybe some of
the day to day goings on and the

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00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:25.280
distractions that fill up any weekly calendar, particularly now in in the twenty four

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00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:40.840
hour news cycle and the digital social
media age, has always this has been

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who killed Teresa and I've been your
host, John Allure. You can check

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00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:52.880
us out on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, and of course SoundCloud.

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00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:55.880
And if you like what you hear, please please give us a review on

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00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:05.000
iTunes. It helps to boost awareness
and create interest in these in what I

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00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:10.519
think are very very important important matters
concerning victimology criminology. You can follow us

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00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:21.480
on Twitter at Justice Guy or at
Teresa A Lorem. I always love suggestions

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00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:25.000
for shows and things. Actually,
a lot of people contact me with a

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00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:30.280
lot of stuff. A certain faction
of you are interested in the whole,

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00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:36.639
the whole biker element, in the
history of that and how that may have

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00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:42.239
played out with these cases. I
keep a sane level of distance from all

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00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:47.320
that is because because I like living. But for those of you who are

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00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:54.280
you know, interested in that,
the potential biker involvement, It's not not

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00:46:54.559 --> 00:47:00.239
that your questions and comments go unheard. I do hear them. There's there's

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00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:07.280
others who are interested in in an
Ontario influence to what degree did crime in

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00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:10.280
the seventies kind of bleed over between
the two provinces, And I certainly I

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00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:15.400
hear that as well. So a
lot of you have, you know,

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00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:22.519
theories and ideas, and all of
them are are attended to and I do

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00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:30.559
consider most most definitely. Um.
You can also, as I say,

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00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.039
you can go to the website teresare
dot com th h E r E s

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00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:37.679
A A L l O r E
if you want to see sort of so

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00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:43.599
the visual compliment to this episode,
as I say, I'll post the crime

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00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:47.360
scene photo of the chocatte case.
It's it's mostly police officers. There's nothing

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00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:52.719
graphics. I worry about that,
I have no anxiety. And also I'll

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00:47:52.760 --> 00:48:02.039
post the link to our our tableau
data project concerning Canadian homicide rates and more

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00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:09.760
importally unsolved homicide. Right, so
that's our program. I hope you've enjoyed

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00:48:09.840 --> 00:49:14.800
this commercial free episode. This is
Who Killed Teresa. Have yourself a great, great dayl