What is a fellow thermonuclear a effort. I am at Damna Valley with out
my certified vantabulous Toho's grand us. But I am as usual, super excited
and mega grateful to be joined by Lauren Williams, who covers the Atlanta Hawks
for the a j C. The Atlanta Journal Constitution follower on Twitter. I
refused to call it the other name at Williams Lauren L spelled exactly as it
sounds. It's also on the screen if you were watching on YouTube. Lauren,
thank you so much for returning. You were on for the Atlanta Hawks
look Ahead last year, so I always appreciate what I'm able to get guests
to come back. The first time, it's like you might stumble into be
like WHOA, oh no, I'm not coming back. So I'm super excited
that you agreed to come back. How are you doing. I'm so grateful
to be back. I had a great time the last time that I was
here. We were just talking about it before you went live. I can't
believe how fast everything has gone. You're one that the jac's already in the
books and we're onto year two. So I'm doing pretty good. Yes,
I'm glad to hear that your first season covering the team went well, especially
because it was pretty tumultuous. Just from being you know, a million feet
away, it seemed like there was It was just a very controversial season for
Atlanta. I felt like, oh, one thousand percent. I always like
to joke that I feel like I went through five seasons in runs just because
you had coaching change, you had front office changes, and just like just
so much controversy. You know, the star player not showing up for a
game and that you know, was a misunderstanding and just a lot going on.
It's a testament to what the Hawks season was that I forgot about the
whole tray not at the game, Yeah said, I feel like, you
know, obviously, in the grand scheme of things, that's a flip on
the radar of everything that happened. But I mean, that's that's a pretty
big one. I don't know how anyone can kind of forget it. I
feel like if you look at the season kind of where we're looking at it
from, it was kind of the turning point of everything that just kind of
picked things off because that was the first major thing that happened, and then
after that it just seemed like there was just news coming out every single month
that there was some something going wrong in the organization, which is just for
a team that ended up with like forty one and forty one is just kind
of wild to think about. So kind of knowing all this, what did
you make of their off season where wasn't very eventful outside of the John Collins
trade. Is there anything you're just thinking about, any themes or takeaways from
the off season that are on your mind heading into next year. Yeah.
You know, obviously from a fan perspective, you want to see the team
get better, and of course the John Collins trade didn't necessarily make them better.
But if I'm looking at it from just kind of an outside lens,
I could see it as you know, they're kind of looking to get some
stability into this organization after such a tumultuously year last season that maybe just moving
on from maybe the longest tenured Hawk at that point, it's just kind of
the you know, the first step of trying to get some stability. And
then you know the fact that they brought in Quinn Snyder when they did twenty
games left in the season. I think it gives them a little bit more
of an even playing field going in just because you can't make any wholesale changes
when you're a coach coming in for the last twenty games of the regular season.
But now he's he's made a ton of changes to the coaching staff.
He's brought in a lot of his guys, he's got a variety of or
a diverse coaching staff. Excuse me, and I mean it's it's gonna look
a lot different in my opinion, in the sense that they're going to have
a little bit more consistency just because they have that familiar voice coming in from
the beginning of the season or even you can count from the offseason all the
way until hopefully the postseason for this team. Do you think it sends any
weird messaging to fans or just about the direction that John Collins became this it
was a salary dumb in the end? Or is it because I can't go
as far as saying it's addition by subtraction, even if they think it opens
up the offense a little bit more. And this also theoretically or technically,
wasn't this front office regime's issue where it's you know, under travish length they
constantly kind of marginalized John Collins and changed his role, and so it reached
to the point where his value is at it's nadear, But does it still
sort of send like an awkward message message where in fury there's this useful player
that they just got rid of because they didn't want to pay the tax,
or if I'm being kind, they didn't want to pay the tax because of
this player. They didn't think that John Collins or this core was worth going
into the tax for. Yeah, I think it's more so that they just
wanted a lot more flexibility moving forward because now they opened up that what twenty
five point three million dollar trade exception with him, so they have a little
bit more playing room to to, you know, maybe bring in somebody who's
a little less redundant in the sense of what he and Clint Capella can do.
I think when you watched that offense, you can often see that,
you know, there was a lot of overlap with what this team wanted the
two of them to do, and and just looking at the chemistry that he
can Capella and Trey Young seemed to have, you know, it just kind
of netted better results in the sense that you just kind of would utilize the
pick and roll a little bit better with those two and then with with Collins,
it just with him not shooting the ball as well as as he did,
you know, two years ago, it just it made it difficult to
see how, you know, they could continue moving forward with not having somebody
who could shoot the three at the four position. So, you know it,
I think, you know, you just have a lot more flexibility in
terms of how you can try to fill the gap that he's left. You
know, you can move up a guy like Jayalen Johnson who's expected to have
a big, you know, third year going into you know this league.
Maybe you move Sabeek Bay to the to the four. I mean, he's
not as good of a rebounder as John Collins, of course, but you
know, if you're having a guy like Clint Capello, who's you know,
down low, you can spread things out and have to be Bay kind of
on the outside a little bit more and space the floor a little bit better.
So yeah, it's a little bit of a salary dump, but I
think they just needed a little bit more spacing on the floor, especially when
you're thinking about what Clint Snyder likes to do that trade exception is huge.
I will say, just based off how they went about the rest of their
off season, I personally will be flabbergasted if they use that at least during
the season. Maybe after the season they'll have like that small window, but
I'll be floored if they want. But that's a huge Like, that's a
huge flexible will asset that they just have sitting there exactly. Quinn Snyder hired
middle of the season, end of February. I think he made his debut
in March third. It was what it ended up coaching twenty games of this
season for him, right, Yeah, it was like a week I think
he made his debut like two days after the higher God official. I remember
which team they played. I just can't remember the tate off the top of
my head. One, two, right, I remember they one. I
think Trey dropped like thirty eight or something. Maybe. Yeah, they played
the Wizards. I know that it's always that's a fun time for everybody,
get to play the Wizard. What do we What did you make of Because
it was atypical to see them hire someone on such a long term deal so
immediately in the middle of the season. We normally see hires like that kind
of weight like drip into the off season and they'll they'll move forward with an
interim coach, especially when again, the decision to move on, like from
Nate McMillan, was made fairly like late into the year as well. So
what did you sort of just make of that entire progression of events. Yeah,
I feel like you could see the writing on the wall that first,
the relationship between you know, the locker room and Nate McMillan was kind of
touch and go. You know, obviously, winning cures everything, but when
they're losing as much as they did, or they would win a couple,
lose a couple win one, lose one, it just it's draining. And
I think they just were ready to kind of wipe the slate clean. And
I remember one of the big things that Landry Field said, you know,
following that decision to move on from McMillan, is that they wanted to light
a fire under these these players butts, and so I think the idea is
that they wanted to get somebody in as soon as possible. They didn't want
to have to wade through, you know, the off season dance of trying
to you know, convince somebody to come aboard. As we look at what
happened in the off season, there were so many coaches who had won championships
in the last couple of years before they moved on, and so they had
a guy in Klint Snyder who was available, and so they said, let's
just go get him as soon as possible. Pleasure to factor in. He
is a solid relationship with Kyle Korver, and so you know that likely helped
that kind of come to fruition a little bit faster than maybe if it had
been done in the off season when he could have taken his pick at whatever
team that he wanted. And I think, you know, the fact that
he's coming in with a guy like Trey Young, you know that has to
also be a little bit enticing to kind of come in and build this system
from the ground up, especially because development is a huge thing that they want
to focus on moving forward, and Klinn Snyder is a guy that doesn't tend
to play his rookies, So if you think about it, they may not
necessarily be getting that development in terms of playing minutes in their first year,
but they're getting that development through his staff, through watching films through watching games
on the sideline, and then also they have the G League and so you
know that's potentially another avenue that they can continue to develop these players. But
as far as them, you know, bringing him in now he gets to
see what he's potentially working with. He can kind of give his feedback as
to how he wants to build the system based on the players that he has.
He can start building relationships with the players much sooner than if he'd had
to do it during the off season, and so I think that played a
role into it as well. Yeah, that was a great point at the
time where when you look at some of the jobs that became open like Milwaukee,
Toronto and Philly, he might I'm sure he would have been linked to
those if he was available. Yeah, we saw like a lot of their
offensive splits like kind of shifted when Quint Spider took over. They were like
second, they were second and offensive rebounding rate with him and tell them get
to the rim a little bit more, get to line a little bit more
they were out and transition a little bit more. Of those changes. What
do you really expect to kind of stick based on like the current core leading
into tonight, like, what do you think was most telltale of how this
team will play together? Yeah. I think the thing that stuck out to
me the most when we kind of started talking to players, you know,
during those twenty games is just how many three pointers he wanted them to take.
I think that a lot of these these guys they want to take that
shot, and perhaps they felt they didn't have that green light under the old
coaching regime, and now they have this guy who's saying take the shot,
take the shot, take the shot. Especially, as I mentioned before,
Jalen Johnson, you know, he talked about, you know, having that
confidence from Quinn Snyder to to go out and take those threes. Take go
out and play a little bit more aggressively, just because he's getting a bit
more consistency in terms of playing time and he can find that rhythm. I
remember Trey Young was particularly excited about the fact that he's able to, you
know, make more three point attempts than he was under the former coach.
So I think that was the thing that a lot of these players were excited
about, and you could kind of see it play out in some part positives
with a guy like Bogdon Vogdanovitch, who's shooting percentage went up, and I
think that's partly because he had maybe some fresher legs after coming off of the
All Star break, but also just uh, you know, his usage.
It's it was just a little bit different in the sense that they were splays
excuse me, spacing the floor a little bit better than they were previously because
of how much of an emphasis Snyder had put on that in practice. So
I think, you know, this off season or going into this next season,
I think we can probably see those three point attempts go up a little
bit more just because he's encouraging so many more guys to go out there and
take those shots. Especially And I didn't even mention on Yeko Kongo, who
you know we saw taking some of those corner threes a little bit more toward
the end of last season, and you know, now with a summer under
his spelt kind of just working on that a little bit more, he kind
of hoped to see him taking those opportunities a little bit more as well.
Was there still so because they still I think they were twenty nine and three
point attempt rate under Quinn Schneider. So it's just like you would expect that
to then be like a demonstrative increase. Is there any reason why there wasn't
more like an immediate uptick from them. Was it just like sort of,
this is happening mid season and we know we're so relying on the mid range
that it's just going to be that way a little bit. Yeah, I
would say I think it's mostly just because it was that feeling out period and
they still hadn't quite you know, internalize some of the habits that he wanted
them to kind of focus on. I think that sort of stuff just it's
going to take a little bit more time to kind of think about the system
that is going to play a part of your season for you know, a
full eighty two games versus the last twenty. You're still kind of using some
of the stuff that worked with the old coaching staff, and now you can't
really make a ton of wholesale, wholesale changes to a team when you come
in for the last twenty years so games. So you know, if this
sort of stuff is just going to take time. He kind of had Quinn
Snyder Hammer's in, you know, the things that he wants to see.
I remember he talked a lot about there were still so many bad habits that
he was trying to kind of break through. I can't really remember some of
them off the top of my head right now because it feels like ages ago.
But yeah, I think that you know, now that these guys know
what he wants, what he's looking for, they can utilize the coaching staff
that he has now and who's going to be a part of this team,
you know, for a longer period of time versus the old assistance that were
used to a certain way of doing things. Do you think they'll still be
as like on or bent on hitting the offensive glass under him as they were
like over those final twenty games. I think so, especially as they continue
to take some of those shots that you know, they may not have been
used to toward the last season. I think there's a big expectation to kind
of lean on the strength of Onyego Congo, who's a very very good offensive
rebounder. You know, obviously Clinton Capella's you know, stronger and the defensive
glass, but he also has, you know, that strength of being a
solid offensive rebounder as well. So I think, you know, there is
still going to be that emphasis of them crashing the glass just because you know,
Snyder wants them to take as many opportunities as they can to get this
offense firing. What did you make of the Dejante Murray experiments in your one
like how what are your thoughts on that heading into the second season of it.
Yeah, I think, you know, at the beginning, we saw
that it could work, and then there was that middling period where it was
like, Okay, this isn't quite working anymore, and then during the playoffs,
you know you could kind of see again they start to kind of figure
things out. I think, uh, you know, under Snyder, I
think he just has a specific way of wanting to use these two guys that
you know, may have been a little bit different than than what Nate McMillan
had in mind. And I think, you know, now again they kind
of have an idea of what works for Tray, what works for de Jonte,
and they'll be able to kind of play to those strengths a little bit
more. So. Yeah, I do think that we'll see you know,
Dejanty kind of capitalize a bit more on those non trade minutes and vice versa.
But I think the big thing is that, you know, they saw
enough in him that they thought that they needed to extend him, and they
ended up doing that this offseason, So I think they're really banking on it
working. Were you surprised, I'm not surprised they offered the extension. Were
you a little bit surprised that he signed it. I was a little surprised
he signed it. I wasn't surprised that they offered it. I was,
you know, based on everything that I saw. It just seemed like,
because it was so up and down with how it was working out, that
he would probably try to find a more stable environment when he, you know,
was able to explore free agency. But I think that, you know,
this off season, they likely maybe changed or not not changed, but
maybe they pivoted with how they convinced him that they would utilize him a little
bit more and that seemed like the best option. And I mean, when
you look at him and Trey, they've they've definitely gotten closer this off season.
So it'll be interesting to see how that off court chemistry starts to translate
a little bit more onto the court in the regular season. His first season
was so interesting in Atlanta because he was a much better shooter and I thought
offensive fit overall when he was on the floor with Trey, and then it
kind of just felt like the non trade minutes were just basically bad. Even
when you kind of like play with some of the lineups. His defense just
didn't feel the same. I don't know if they were trying to give him
too much to do, but like, I think his steals were fine.
He's always gonna get his deals. But it was kind of just like the
inverse of what I expected. I was like, Oh, the fit with
Trey will be rickety, but his defense is going to be on point and
he'll be able to lead some of those units without Trey, And it was
just yeah, like I said, the complete inverse, is there like a
like do you see a pathway to the non trade minutes with de Jean Murray
specifically getting better this year? Or is that is that part of why they
go after Kobe Bucking in the draft while they bring in Patty Mills hopefully Bogdanovich
is is healthy or is it like a real concern that they need to be
like considering moving into this season. You know, I think, and maybe
I'm too much of an optimist, but I think that it has to get
it has to get better, just get much worse than it did last season.
And I think that he has to utilize those minutes a little bit more
just because of now he knows how how Trey Young plays when they're on the
floor together. I think the expectations maybe are a little bit different as well
as far as to, you know, what he'll be able to accomplish in
the minutes that he's playing with Trey. But you know, I think again,
I don't necessarily think this team got better, particularly you know, when
they traded John Collins. I don't think they got better defensively. I think,
in fact, they got worse. But I think he's going to have
to step up a little bit more, particularly because they don't have that extra
safety net with John Collins there to kind of you know, work with Clint
Capella as well as they did last year defensively. So, you know,
I think the expectation is that a lot of these guys are going to have
to step up a little bit more so that they're not as bad as they
were defensively last year. Yeah, they were, they were pretty bad defensively.
You will, of course talk to that. I have a question though,
Okay, it is Trey Young officially underrated at this point. I do.
I do think so. I mean, he you can't lead the league
and assist as often as he has and not expect him to be rated approach
you know where he is right now, And I don't. I wouldn't necessarily
say I think people disrespect Tree Young's game, but I do think that there's
a lot more that he, you know, is eager to show us.
So I think again, I think this is a big season for him.
He's heading into what his sixth season. You know, he's got a lot
more experience of leading a team to an Eastern Conference final. He's got a
new coach under his belt, who you know, likely aligns with what he
believes his game is. And so I do think he is And you know,
I do think he should have been somebody who was in serious consideration for
Team USA. But yeah, I do think he is underrated it And you
know, I think he's gonna come out with a lot or a huge chip
on his shoulder moving into this season. I wonder if, if if he's
able to function under Quinn Snyder without any reports of oh this is happening in
the locker room or this is happening with the coaching staff, if that could
maybe shift perception of him. I think some of it is okay. He
was under thirty two percent on his off the drible threes last year, Like
we need to see some of his percentage even around the rim dropped. But
it seems like they're gonna be playing a lot of They played four out anyway
when John Collins was there, But if John Collins isn't hitting threees, you're
not really four out, and so you can get the more four out combinations.
He gets to the basket more, and I think he's at his best
when he can leverage both the floater and the stuff he does at the rim.
He also just and you mentioned this, one of the best passers in
the league, great at setting up corner three, is great at getting his
teammates like buckets at the rim. I think he has become underrated, and
it feels like it's all this extracurricular stuff that has pulled away from his report,
because even defensively, he's still one of the worst defenders in the league.
But like he's not as as he was two years ago either, And
it's just wild to me that it feels like we're lower or nationally the perception
of him is lower than it was two years ago. And I can only
pinpoint, Okay, it's just because of the rumors about Okay, yes,
some of the percentages last year, but they're not talking about his shooting splits
when they're criticizing Trey Young, like it always kind of comes back to just
the defense and of course, like oh, what's going on behind the scenes
with the coaching staff or his relationship with his teammates. Yeah, I think
it's hard to ignore that reputation and all of that plays a lot, a
huge role in a lot of the stuff that we see is in terms of
player voting for All Stars, coaches voting for old All Stars, and all
of that sort of stuff. I mean, the outside perception does have a
huge, I think chunk of the factor and how he's perceived. You know,
he is kind of perceived as unfortunately just because of like you said,
the extracurriculars a little bit of a jerk. But but but when you think
about, you know, who he is as a person, you don't necessarily
see those factors. I think he's just he knows who he is and he's
very confident in his ability, and I think when he has a coach like
Quinn Snyder, who he can kind of I think they talk the same language
a little bit more, and I think that will net a lot more positive
results. And I think, you know, guys like to make sure that
they're consistently learning from the coaches that that they're under, and I think sometimes
it comes down to you're not learning anymore, and so unfortunately that can play
a role in what happens on the court. It's hard to ignore that.
It's hard to ignore the body language that you sometimes see between coaches and players
and and and all of that sort of stuff. So I do think that
his reputation has unfortunately overshadowed what he is capable of. And I think that
this will be a big gear for him to be able to show that,
you know, he isn't who people say says he is. And I think,
you know, especially when you think about when he's launched a podcast now,
and you know, he's trying to, you know, open this kind
of inside view into who he is off the court. So yeah, I
think he's very much aware of what the perception of him is and I think
he does have a little bit of a mixture of he knows who he is,
but he also is willing to, you know, start sharing who he
is a little bit more. Now. Adrian Griffin's role is all over the
place as a rookie, should we expect him to have a bigger role even
though side of the backcourt rotation is more crowded this year, maybe you get
some wing minutes too, And what we're just your general impressions of his game
coming out of year one. Yeah, I think, you know, he
played really really well in in those first what forty or so games before the
All Star break before. I mean, he did start to hit a little
bit of a rookie wall toward that All Star break actually, and then it
kind of kept going afterward. But I don't think the Hawks expected him to
be as strong as he was, you know, to begin with. If
you remember they were playing justin holiday, a lot of those minutes where those
first ten or so games before they kind of switched and AJ earned some of
those minutes a little bit more. But you know, it's it's hard to
say, just because Snyder typically keeps the rotations pretty tight, particularly you know,
in the playoffs. I think we saw a lot of like eight man
rotations, and AJ is kind of the tenth man when you factor in a
guy like Jayalen Johnson, who Quinn Snyder really really like his game, the
athleticism and just kind of that raw ability to potentially have a stronger outside game.
Plus Jayalen Johnson's defense was a lot stronger than you know AJ's, and
pro team that isn't the best defensively, you need as many strong defenders as
you can. So it's kind of hard to say whether AJ will kind of
have more minutes this upcoming year unless this defense has kind of taken that next
step just because with a lot of these younger players, that's kind of how
you earn your minutes on the floors, that you show that you can be
a stopper on that end. And so I think going into the season,
if I'm projecting lineups, obviously it's gonna be Trey des Gante, Drey DeAndre
Hunter. I'm still toying between whether it will be Sadique Bay at the four
or Jayalen Johnson at the four, and then obviously Clint Capella. Those are
going to be your starters, and then you know the next the sixth man
is going to be Bob coming off the bench, and then when Trader Deshaunty
sits, it'll likely be Patty coming in to kind of play that point guard
role, and then it'll likely be on Yeka, who's the backup five.
So it's kind of hard to see whearing that mix. You're going to have
a guy like a j Griffin or even Kobe Bufkin come in just because Clint
Snyder typically doesn't play those young guys a lot, it does feel like the
best path for him to have consistent minutes would be can you defend the three?
Basically is it's not even just evens like can you defend these wings?
And it's I want to say it's a shame, but I was like,
and I don't know enough about I don't know a ton about rookies until they
really entered the league. He's want to really start in their game. He
was so comfortable off the dribble and getting like to the in between spots eve
when he wasn't making shots, which just like, oh there is something here.
But when you were basically like what fourth in offense under Quinn Snyder,
Like you don't need more offense and you definitely don't need more shot creation per
se on this team, and so I'm curious to see if they will try
him out against some like maybe like slower wings, just to see because if
he can hold up in that situation, I feel like it makes it a
lot easier to play him. Yeah, I agree. I think you know,
obviously, his on the ball defense is a lot better than his off
the ball, and I think that's that's the biggest thing, is that a
lot of the times he kind of gets lost a little bit, especially when
he's out there on the wing. And so that's what I mean by kind
of like that next step is just you know, just making sure if he
has that awareness a little bit more. So, Yeah, I definitely agree
with you that kind of where he'll earn his mints the most is just on
the defensive end, and particularly like you mentioned, on the wing. Are
you at all surprise that we're entering year four of like Bokongu quin Cappella pairing
up front, Like they're not guys that play together, but they've just been
together for four years and now we're you know, Okungu is extension knowledgeable,
Kapella has actually signed another contract. Like since they've been teammates. Is this
a dynamic that you think the team is prepared to float long term knowing that
a kungu is about to get more expensive. It's hard for me to say
yes to that, just because you know, Clint Capello is a guy that
was continuously kind of floated in trade rumors, you know, up until you
know the draft, and then even after the draft a little bit. You
know, he was frequently kind of mixed in with that Dallas mixture, and
I kind of anticipated that before. It seemed like some of the trade talks
for Siakam kind of broke down that he would be part of some three team
whatever team trade to to kind of kind of bring that there. So I
don't I don't see this necessarily being something that's long term. I think Clint
Snyder really likes what Oneko Congo can do. I think he's very excited that,
you know, he can potentially you know, space him out to the
outside, whereas with Clint Capella you can't quite do that. So I think
that long term, Oneka just kind of offers a little bit more versatility that
might make a more convincing argument for the Hawks to kind of keep him on
a little bit longer. Plus he's younger, which is weird to say that
Clint, who is only like, what twenty eight twenty nine, is no
longer spring Chicken versus Oneko who's like twenty three twenty four. So yeah,
I think just kind of what this what this team is looking to do.
I can see them moving in the direction of extending Oneka a little bit longer
and you know, moving on from Clint when his contract is up, if
they can't trade him before that. And I think, because I believe he's
a free agent after this upcoming season, that might make him a little bit
more enticing to some teams, especially around the trade deadline, who are looking
to kind of beef up on the inside a little bit more, especially defensively.
He's on an expiring contract and so it might make him a little bit
Does he have two years? I think he's for two years Coppell, Yeah,
I think he comes off the books after twenty four twenty five, okay,
which is not a long dealt So to just have him there. If
you had to pick, though, would you say and or is the answer
neither like Bolsa deik bay and on Yaka Congo or extension knowledgeable, so Congo
more likely to get the extension, or does this team very fluid with how
it wants to monitor, let's say, where it is relative to the tax
and so you would like they're just not going to extend either of them.
They're gonna let it drip into restricted free agency. Yeah, I think it's
if I had to say, I could see them being a little bit more
inclined to extend Onyeka before you know, they were to necessarily extend Sadik.
I think it just depends on, you know, how both of these guys
performed this year. But I think I'm more inclined for them. I'm more
inclined to believe that they wouldn't extend Onyeka just because again a little bit more
versatility. You know, Sadik, he can shoot the ball really really well,
but I think just defensively, he's still not quite where they need him
to be, and he'll of course have to make another step forward on that
end. You know, this season I think to kind of convince this team
to say, Okay, yeah, we definitely have to buy into this guy.
When you look at kind of where they they are and who they drafted,
you know, Mohammed Gay they truly believe in this kid, and so
it's and then again Jayalen Johnson, it kind of put Sadek in a little
bit of a stickier situation as far as you know, it's a done deal
that he gets extended. So yeah, we've mentioned Jalen Johnson a couple of
times now. It seems like he's in line for just a monster role this
year, which makes sense because of how bad some of their other defensive options
are, including Bay who's a part of that. Offensively, though, like
what do we expect from him? We've sort of seen flashes of a little
bit of everything, Like he can attacks and close outs, he can grab
rebounds and run up the floor. The shooting is a little bit rickety,
Like what is the what are you watching for as he's going into this year?
Yeah, I think for me, I'm just looking to see if he
can continue building off of the confidence that he had toward the end of last
season. Of course, he didn't play a lot of minutes in the postseason,
but that was I think more so Quinn just kind of leaning on some
of those more experienced postseason and guys. I mean, that was his first
time in the playoffs and I think he did as well as you would have
expected. So I do think we're gonna see a lot more athleticism. We're
gonna see him continue to run the floor as much as he did last year,
and I'm sure this offseason he is has been working on that shooting a
lot more. I'm actually gonna be talking to him tomorrow, so we'll get
a good sense of where he is based on what he's done this this off
season. So yeah, I think we're just gonna see a lot more off
that athleticism that we've seen so many flashes of. And I think he's gonna
have a good good season this year. I think they'll be able to unlock
more of his you know, skills as a ball handler. I think that
was one of the other things that this Hawks team didn't have enough of last
season, was guys who could, you know, take the ball up the
floor, who could set shots up. And he and Oneko Congo have a
really good chemistry building. He and say a really good chemistry building as far
as him setting them up for shots. So yeah, I think we're gonna
see just, you know, a lot more of that versatility that he showed
when he was at Duke, who do you think, and you sort of
mentioned this before, winds up with that fifth starter spot. It feels like
it'll come between down to Johnson or Bay. But could anyone else sneak in
there? Or do you think it's firmly between those two? And who would
you pick between them? Yeah, I think I think I'm gonna go out
a limb on a limb here and say I think Jayalen gets that that fifth
starter spot just because of his ability to rebound. You know, he's not
afraid to And that's not to say that Sadique Bay is afraid to go out
there. None of these guys are afraid to do anything. But just how
much he's able to kind of come in and grab some of those offensive rebounds,
which I need. He's also there's you know, get some of those
defensive rebounds again, the ability to you know, be a guy that can
set shots up again, that's just another like just having that versatility in that
starting five I just think gives him a little bit more of an edge over
over Sabak. So I don't even think that's necessarily a hot take. I
think a lot of people expected Jayalen Johnson to kind of be the air apparent
to John Collins whenever it was, you know that the team moved on from
him or he moved on from the team. And I just just based on
you know, he has the size. You know, he's he's very strong,
even though he's a very lean sort of player. I don't know,
I just in that starting five, I can kind of see him having the
edge just because he has a little bit more versatility. Yeah, I just
I guess it would just come down to really hit enough of his set jumpers.
Yeah. So that because Murray's coming off basic like a career shooting season
from three when you look at his catch and shoots, So if that comes
down a little bit if you try and maximize your spacing, I get.
I can see why the appeal would be, well, we'll start with Bay
and then have Johnson roll out and like some of the bench every units.
Yeah, and I could it could very well to be matchup dependent as well.
We could see, you know, especially at the beginning of the season,
maybe they toggle a lot between the two because you know, you could
have Sadeacon Andre. They could kind of play between both the three and the
four, so it's not too much of a set one, two, three,
four, five. So yeah, I think maybe at the beginning of
the year we see a lot more experimentation and then you know, towards the
end when kind of locks in on what works. But yeah, I think
it could also be just a matchup dependant. What is this team's pathway to
actually getting a lot better on the defensive end? Is it just that,
oh, Murray's better this season, We're gonna play Jail and Johnson more.
We're expecting DeAndre Hunter to continue to develop. Has that last ship sailed?
Like, I don't even know how I feel about DeAndre Hunter, who might
be the was net neutral player in the NBA when I when I consider my
feelings about him right now, or is there not really a pathway with this
current chord it's still gonna take, Like, Oh, they need to sort
of futs and fiddle at the very least on the trade market if they want
to make become let's say, a lead average defensive team. I do think
they need to fut some fiddle a little bit more. I just I still
just don't think that this team is quite there yet. I think, if
I if I'm being honest, I still think that they're one or two spots
away from kind of being what it is. And I think maybe it's also
them just kind of banking on some of these guys that they drafted it.
You know, in this most recent class, you look at, you know,
the three rookies that they are technically the four rookies that they brought in,
and they're all fairly defensive minded guys. It's just going to be a
little bit harder for them to crack the rotation right now, just because you
can't expect rookies to be offensively ready right away, even if their defense is
right there. But I think the goal is for them to continue developing in
house. But yeah, I don't know, it's just it's really hard for
me to see. And I also think too, it depends on what guys
like you know, Patty Mills are able to kind of bring to the table
as well. And I think that's one of the things too that they're missing,
is that that that veteran presence, and now they have that in both
West Matthews and Patty Mills. I mean, when you look at the team
last year, it was a pretty pretty young team. I think the average
age was probably about what twenty four, twenty five, with Bogey being the
oldest guy after after the trade deadline on this team. So yeah, I
think, you know, maybe with a little bit more veteran presence that they
have now and you know, maybe one or two more defensive minded guys,
I think that, you know, maybe it could be what's needed to at
them, you know, over that whatever hump it is that they have that's
been holding them back. Sensively. As a fact, they did not know
that Boie was the oldest player on the team after the tree. He's the
only player thirty year older on a team after the trade deadline. Did not
have no idea about that. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, So what
do we make of their reported interest in Pascal Siakam, which seems legitimate,
Like they're serious about their interests in Pascal Siakam, even if talks haven't really
progressed to where you would think that something is imminent. Yeah, I and
listen, I like Pascal Sam. I like his game, and I like
what he's been doing for Toronto and everything like that. But again, I
still I think he's the type of player that they go in on when when
you know, he's just kind of like the last piece that they need versus
right now where I still think they need a couple more pieces, and I
mean he's part of the couple more pieces. I also think the other thing
that has me kind of hung up is that you know him, the reports
of him not necessarily being willing to resign with a team if he's traded to
me, that should kind of put up a little bit of the red flag
of whether you know of you going in on the deal. I don't know.
That's just kind of been my hang up, is you know, him
saying out loud for the world to know that he's not interested in resigning with
the team. So yeah, I don't know if I don't know if he's
the guy that you make the trade for right now if you're the Hawks.
But I think I would agree with you. I'm not. I don't really
care about him saying he won't resign. A lot of that's been the reporting
has been, Oh, he wants to be supermax Eldro with the Raptors,
and he very well could make all NBA doesn't mean the Raptors are in a
super max him. They just let Fred van Vleet walk for nothing, like
they're not necessarily in the business of paying everybody. I just more so the
okay, you have to worry about what it's gonna cost to resign him,
and you are very tax conscious at this day age, and then it's the
fit just feels like it could be weird. He gets you better defensively,
but do you want him playing the five? And if the answers no,
do you want him playing with a kungu? And then you're taking the ball
out of his hands a lot more with Murray and Trey Young? And if
Murray's not treating the ball, well, how's the fit with him and Siakam?
It just thought it was a very interesting player for them to be so
seemingly interested in. And I would agree with you that I don't given where
they're at, I don't think he's the guy that you, you know,
go all in on when you've already you've traded some future assets already to get
Murray. So I was just I didn't find it puzzling because Siakham's a good
player, but after you've just dumped John, I just I found it very
curious would be the word that I used to describe it. I agree,
I feel like it would have just kind of put them back in the situation
that they just got themselves out of, and you know, for a team
that's said that they wanted flexibility, in my opinion, going all in on
Siakam right now when even though you know they're they've human the humanly denied that
they're not trying to duc the tax or anything like that. Actions, you
know, unfortunately, actions speak louder than words, and the actions look like
you're trying to duck the tax. You know. I just it just was
not I just to go all in on this one person right now where the
roster is. I didn't think it was necessarily the right move. So I
think we're both on the same page here about that. We've entered the annual
cookie cutter portion of the podcast. My first question here is what do you
think, as currently constructed, in at full strength, their ten man rotation
looks like it does feel like there might be eight locks on this team.
I would say, for the ten man rotation, is that right? I
could see, yeah, I would say that, and I would almost say,
you know, I think I think Patty Mills is in there somewhere.
Okay, I think I think Patty Mills is in there somewhere, just because
again, you know, he's got a little bit more experienced. He's really
been showing out in the World Cup, and you know he has that experience
also with Deschante Murray. So I think he's kind of one of those reserves.
And I would almost say that I believe he's probably the tenth man this
year versus a guy like Ajor or anyone, you know, one of the
younger guys. So, yeah, that would give us then Trey dejan A,
DeAndre Hunter, Bay Capella, Bogey Oneko Kongu, Jalen Johnson, Patty
Mills is nine. And then would you think, like, oh, should
we expect West Matthews to be playing over a J. Griffin a lot this
season or do you think a J. Griffin will have a real chance at
getting that ten spot. I don't think I'm missing anybody unless they're like super
high on vit Craci or something. Well they actually already waved heat, so
he's he's not there, you know, I think, And maybe maybe I'm
maybe this will be my hot I don't even think it's that hot. Maybe
this will be my warm tape. But I think I could see that tenth
man being a mixture of maybe you know, Buffkin and AJ, And I
think it just depends on, you know, whether AJ can kind of get
that defensive side of his game up, because I think that's kind of where
buff can edges him a little bit. And I and I think just because
you know, Buffkin's ability to handle the rock is a little bit stronger than
AJ as well. Again, I think it all comes down to versatility and
right now, even though you know Kobe Buffkin's a little bit on the younger
side of the two, they're actually about the same age. But I think
just because of his defense, he played really well on the defensive end in
Summer League, and I know it summerly. He can't take too much away
from that, but I think that kind of edges him a little bit in
that tenth roster spot. What do you view as this team's biggest weakness right
now, whether it's like a player archetyped or specific functional void. Yeah,
I think for me, it still comes down to kind of that collective defense.
I'm a little I think I'm still a little bit nervous about where they
are, especially on the perimeter. You know, obviously we know DeAndre Hunter
is their strongest perimeter perimeter defender, or at least he was last season when
you look at some of those games, like I think there was one Indiana
game where he missed it. He had like a ankle sprain or something,
and it was just it was just bad. And so you know, it's
he's one of those guys where unfortunately, you just kind of notice way more
of the bad than you do just when he's like he said, he's just
neutral. He just does his job. He shows up, does what he's
supposed to do sort of thing, and you obviously notice him when he's playing
really really well. But I just I just kind of want to see them
a little bit stronger. I'm not in this, you know as well,
just kind of how much they take some of the stress off Clint Capella.
I mean, that work guy is just like you know, working its tailoffs.
So I think that's kind of where I am. It's just I want
to see them a lot stronger on you know, some of their point of
attack defense as well. Do they have And I forgot to include this in
the outline, but just nationally, is there like any you know, strengths
about this team that go overlooked or something about this team that goes overlooked that
you think deserves some shine. Yeah. I do think this team is a
lot more athletics than than people give them a little bit of credit for.
And I think that's partly one a guy like Jayleen Johnson, but also Dean
I mean, Desanta is actually sneaky athletic in my opinion, and so I'm
Ka Kong, who is also one of those athletic guys. So I do
think that their ability to attack the rim as well as they do deserves a
little bit more shine as well. This is to some they stand matchup dependent.
But what would you expect their preferred closing lineup to be? Is it
just probably going to be their starters or could you see some just sort of
shape shifting there. Yeah, I could actually see that closing five being like
a Trey de Gante, Bobie Deondrey, and Clint or Onyeka depending on size.
Okay, maybe maybe you could throw Sabek in there a little bit if
you need to think a little bit more about who has been shooting better and
spacing and everything like that. So yeah, I think that or as you
said, default starting five, is there a weird whole lineup that you think
that this team needs to try. I weirdly, and I don't think it
will ever ever happen. I don't think it will ever happen, but I
really, I weirdly want to see what it would look like with Onyeka at
the four and Clint at the five. I know that's what I'm saying.
It's a weird you said weird though, Yeah, weird though. So that's
kind of like my weird old lineup, just because if one is shooting as
well as you think he can, it'll just be weirdly interesting to kind of
see what happens with that. But again, it's a weird old lineup.
It will never happen. So well, I guess in theory, if he's
hitting like corner threes, they could at least float it and see what happens.
I mean, they're not dripping with backup five, so I don't know
why you'd want to put both of your fives. But that's why I said
it will never happen right now, because that would be great for their rebounding
and they would there be a purpose that Okay, we have these two guys,
they could play together. I mean the backup backup five would have been
Bruno Bruno Fernando. Yeah, I don't need to really see a lot of
I so mine. I want to see and they used him like this,
not so much last year, but his first year. Jalen Johnson at the
five. Yeah, and then give me DeAndre Hunter trey and this is this
is how it will get weird. I want to see Kobe Buffkin there,
like, let's have you have two of those, like defensive guards and Murray
and Buffkin. Buffkin knows how to work without the ball, but he's supposed
to be a good finisher at the rim. I know he didn't really fare
too well there and in summer league. She want to see it. It's
so tiny. I don't know what it would look like defensively, but I
feel like you could be a firecracker offensively. I okay, I'm buying what
you're selling. I could see it. I would. Yours has a way
better chance of listen, I don't. I don't think so I'm listen.
Like I said, it's a weirdo line up. I think maybe the other
weirdo lineup is maybe if they're going small, you do bogie at the three?
Do you know DJ and Treyer and their their usual kind of spots.
I guess maybe Sadek at the four and then at the five. It would
be funny to see, oh and then just play him with four guards,
like it's just like, don't even throw Bay in there, like we just
have Griffin and Bogey and Trey and Murray like that would be that'd be another
fun line up to say. I'm telling you you're trying to stress those fives
out, but I mean, if you're gonna be bad defensively anyway, I'm
just I'm gonna lean into it, all right, all right, Okay,
So they're over and I think Nikaia is Duncan of the dunker spot either.
I can't remember what he called the Hawks. They're aggressively mid or aggressively mediocre,
whatever it was. Yeah, they're over. Under is like typifies that.
It's forty one point five as we record this. They won forty one
games last year. If you had to, are you smashing the over the
under on that? I'm gonna say this every time. Vegas is really good
at setting these lines. They're almost always thinkers shoot well, I think unfortunately,
I'm going to have to take the under. Okay. I just think
when you look at some of the other teams in the East, they just
got some of them got so good. I look at like Indiana with an
addition of Bruce Brown. I mean Philly is still a wild card, of
course. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe if I take the under,
I set my expectations low and then I'm pleasantly surprised. I'm going to counter
that and set myself up for pessimism. I'm gonna take the over, and
this my reasoning is probably going to torpedo every single one of my offseason takes.
I think Boston made a huge mistake with the Christops deal, and I
think that their floor is exponentially low. Where you already mentioned the Sixers,
we have no idea what the fuck is going on there, Like, I
don't know what we're supposed to trust about them. Miami really so far as
dropped the ball. They've lost guys that they needed and don't have Dame.
Now if we think they get Dame, that makes it interesting. I think
the Knicks are about as good as they were did over the Cavaliers. I
look at the Hawks team and I just for me, it comes down to
I really love a J Griffin. I love Dalen Johnson, I'm extremely relative
to consensus now high on Trey, and I just firmly believe that Quinn Schneider
is going to be worth at least one extra win. That's just where I
land on it. I like your optimism there for pessimism, I said,
I feel like because I said it, now the Hawk you're gonna be terrible.
It's basically what it is. I think just because I remember that team
last year and just how they absolutely had some stinkers, Like it's just some
awful games where obviously you respect the game. Yes, paper says one thing
as far as how well they're supposed to play, but I just also think
about how well Orlando did last year with where the expectation was for them,
and how well Paolo ban Caro played. I don't know, I still I
guess I have a lot of faith in a team like Boston that has Jason
Tatum and Jaylen Brown, and the expectation is that these two are are going
to continue just taking those steps forward to you know, finally get over that
Eastern Conference, you know finals hump that they seem to be stuck in.
You know, as you said, New York is New York Milwaukee. I
still think, you know, the fact that they were able to retain guys
like brook Brook Lopez and Chris Middleton. They still have a guy like Drew
Holiday. Uh, you know, you're expecting Marjean Beauchamp to just kind of
take that next step forward into his second year. So I don't know.
I just I already mentioned Indie. So that's already what five or six teams
right there. You have the expectations that now that Brooklyn you know, is
used to Jacque Vaughan, they know what his system is, you know,
Michail Bridges, you know, and Cam Johnson are supposed to, you know,
take those steps forward. I don't know. I just and then again
you're I'm factoring in if they already you know, get Dames. So yeah,
I haven't even mentioned Cleveland. I don't know what's going on there,
but I still think the expectation is that they'll finish where around where they finished
last year. So that book puts the Hawks around ninth if you put India
above the Hawks. So yeah, I mean that's a great point too.
Yeah, you have I would say we were beating agreeing with at Milwaukee,
and even I don't like Boston, but Boston's better than Atlanta. I would
put Cleveland ahead of Atlanta. I think if you just want to throw Miami
mare because the Dame stuff, like, let's just assume Miami there. That's
four. I don't know what to say about the Sixers, but let's just
if they have hardened and beat Okay, that's five. I would say Atlanta
is probably better than Brooklyn. I think people l Bridges was great, but
the Nets were bad, like after trade. Yeah, and I guess it's
probably easy to like, what are the teams they're guaranteed to be better than?
I think Detroit, Charlotte, Washington. For sure, they're not going
to be trying to win. Toronto's a disaster. That's probably the only four
you could guarantee, like with Orlando, Chicago, Indie, as you already
mentioned, like a bunch of wild cards. So it does feel like the
Hawks, like your ceiling might be like fifth, but they feel like they
could also have a floor of like like I don't know, like ten or
eleventh or something exact. Yeah, that's tough, So I totally get.
I totally get where you're coming from. Now, is there anything about this
team or anyone on this team. I didn't ask about that. You think
he needs to be discussed. Yeah, I think we touched on everybody,
especially because the expectation is that, you know, those rookies aren't going to
play, even though those are the guys that I'm kind of the most excited
to. I love Kobe Buffin. He went to Atlanta because I wanted him
to play, and I just I don't see it happening. Yeah, I
just unless, like I said, unless he can be kind of you know,
jump take a jump over or leap frog some of those guys or really
small. Absolutely, absolutely, but yeah, yeah, I don't know.
I think we kind of touched on everything. It's it's going to be an
interesting season because I think everybody can agree that the Hawks did not get better
this offseason. I think my I think my biggest thing is just I want
to see how they start out of the gate, just because last season,
it's like, again, they didn't beat the teams they were quote unquote supposed
to beat, and then they were very competitive against teams that you know,
you had no expectation of them winning. Like I think about again that Denver
game where Trade didn't show up, they beat the Nuggets, and I'm like
the team that eventually went on to win the finals. So I don't know.
It's just again, I think this is going to be an interesting season.
Again, I don't think they necessarily got better, and it will be
interesting to see where they are by the trade deadline and what decisions they're going
to make from there, just because they haven't really done a ton of splashy
moves outside of the Murray trade. And I wouldn't even necessarily consider John Collins
a splashing move unfortunately, because he's been dangled out there for the last three
years, fifteen years. It feels like, yeah, he was in trade
rumors longer when he was in the NBA somehow exactly. So yeah, I
mean, I think if they somehow managed to get Siakam, I think maybe
that will be a big surprise and how that works. But I don't know.
This team is. As Nika I said aggressively, mid Lauren, this
was great. Thank you so much for coming back on. Are you able
to tell our listeners where they can find you and all the great work that
you do. Absolutely, you can find me on Twitter at Williams Lauren.
Well, I have been cursed with a very common last name, so it
was hard to, you know, settle on a handle it. I think
it took me about like three years to finally settle on that, and that's
why the best one. And then you can find my work at the ajac
dot com, slash Atlanta Hawks, well sports slash Atlanta Hawks or whatever.
Well, thank you so much again for coming on. I'll be sure to
follow her on Twitter and all the great worked at more does. Thank you
so much, and as you know by now, I will be festering you
get in the future. Love it.