1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:07,200 You're listening to the mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,719 --> 00:00:12,039 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,000 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,239 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,640 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,440 with Kristin Dilley. My name is Kristin Dilley. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:32,439 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:37,759 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,799 --> 00:00:51,240 in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to mind Over Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilley 10 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:57,560 and I'm Bill Thomas. Welcome to another fun filled episode of mind Over Murder 11 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:03,679 recording on this Memorial Day. We hope everybody's having an excellent day, incredibly 12 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,560 enthusiastic. Maybe it's because you have the day off. Maybe it's because I 13 00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:10,719 have the day off from school. That's exactly what it could be. And 14 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,560 I get to have burgers later, so yay. Patriotic feelings abound. We 15 00:01:15,599 --> 00:01:19,760 had a parade here in our little town and we paid our respects to our 16 00:01:19,799 --> 00:01:23,640 men and women in military uniform, both current and retired. It was really 17 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:29,640 fun, and it occurred to me that listening to the band perform, who 18 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,640 were wonderful, this is a high school band from our area. They also 19 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,280 did something where they had two trumpet players play taps some distance. It's very 20 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,680 stirring, actually, but I was thinking about something. One of the guys 21 00:01:42,719 --> 00:01:45,959 was fairly close to us, and I turned and we listened very respectfully. 22 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,120 But I thought to myself, that's actually a high pressure gig for a high 23 00:01:49,159 --> 00:01:55,400 school student. Yeah, totally to play taps solo and they do this echoe 24 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,280 thing. It's really cool. But I was looking at this young guy who 25 00:01:59,359 --> 00:02:01,879 was playing, and he was quite good. I thought, this kid's probably 26 00:02:01,959 --> 00:02:07,120 sixteen years old. And the whole town turns, looks, and he plays 27 00:02:07,159 --> 00:02:09,840 taps and then the other young guy plays taps across the way, and it 28 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,840 was very nicely done. But most of the time when I have seen someone 29 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:21,080 perform, it's actually a somewhat more experienced player, typically a Marine Corps trumpet 30 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,479 player. I've also heard that real trumpet players are in short supply, and 31 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:30,039 so some of them actually are playing a device that doesn't require them to play 32 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,639 it, but just push a button and it's actually recorded. Oh well, 33 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,800 which I find really disappointing. Oh wow, that's interesting, And I think 34 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,599 we should take a moment here, because it is Memorial Day to acknowledge your 35 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:49,280 family's military service, particularly Kathy. I definitely am thinking of her today on 36 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,240 Memorial Day, most especially thank you. And I know there are a number 37 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:58,280 of people in the families involved in the Colonial Parkway murders who've had women and 38 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:02,000 men serving in our military. So our hats are off to all of you, 39 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,159 and happy June. By the time you hear this, it will be 40 00:03:06,479 --> 00:03:09,439 Monday, June fifth, Yes, it will be. And that does mean 41 00:03:09,479 --> 00:03:13,840 that some of the news in this episode of True Crime News round Up is 42 00:03:13,879 --> 00:03:16,520 just the slightest bit dated, But we figured that you guys would still benefit 43 00:03:16,599 --> 00:03:22,639 from hearing our wealth of information. In Bill's case, snarky commentary on everything 44 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,759 that we're about to report on. What are you gonna You're gonna characterize my 45 00:03:25,879 --> 00:03:30,120 commentary as snarky? You said prior to going on the air, you were 46 00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:35,000 going to make it snarky but not sweary. Yeah, I figured we should 47 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,719 throw it out there to everybody. We try very hard to be snarky not 48 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,439 sweary. But if you ever meet us off the air, we're pretty scary 49 00:03:42,479 --> 00:03:46,960 folks. My mom would not be proud of me that. No, mine 50 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:51,080 wouldn't be either. Actually, your mom listen to the podcast? I know 51 00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:53,199 she's a fan. Now, my mom does not listen to the podcast. 52 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:59,039 No one in my family does not, even my boyfriend. Wow, No, 53 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:05,039 no I have are my fans? Oh my? I know they're very 54 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,080 supportive. They like that I do it, but no, they don't listen 55 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,560 to it. No one in my family has. No one else in my 56 00:04:11,599 --> 00:04:16,439 family has the True Crime bug Ah, so I understand. Yeah, it's 57 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,800 weird for them. My brother occasionally will have people who go up to him 58 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,959 at his golf course in Miami and go, wait, is your sister the 59 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,680 one who has the podcast? And the first time he was like, how 60 00:04:28,759 --> 00:04:30,959 is this even happening? Like how big is your podcast? I'm like, 61 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,480 it's not that big. And he's flim musty because people ask me about it. 62 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:39,680 So that's cool, but he's also taken aback by it. You did 63 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:44,639 have a million downloads, Christin Dilly, So somebody's listening and we appreciate it, 64 00:04:45,199 --> 00:04:47,160 Yes, very much. Have you explained to your brother how this thing 65 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:54,360 called the Worldwide Web does allow people all over the place in Miami and other 66 00:04:54,439 --> 00:04:59,279 countries or the whole nine to listen to the podcast? He knows he's a 67 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,160 little bit of a love night, but yes, he knows he's familiar. 68 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:06,399 I think he just has a hard time believing that there's anybody who might want 69 00:05:06,399 --> 00:05:10,120 to listen to what I have to say on any subject. But that's the 70 00:05:10,199 --> 00:05:14,519 younger brother in him going. I for one, am very interested in what 71 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,279 you have to say, and thanks to everybody else for listening as well. 72 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,199 Yeah. Absolutely, It definitely makes up for the fact that no one in 73 00:05:24,199 --> 00:05:29,399 my family listens to my pot she said, without a trace of bitterness in 74 00:05:29,439 --> 00:05:31,319 her voice. Nope, not at all. We're gonna go ahead and jump 75 00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:35,959 into True Crime News Roundup. This is possibly volume five, maybe volume six 76 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:42,000 it is, although I usually find that it's easier to say true News round 77 00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:45,480 Up June fifth, twenty twenty three, and that way, I'm not too 78 00:05:45,519 --> 00:05:48,759 worried about sequential numbering. Yeah, that works better. We have a couple 79 00:05:48,759 --> 00:05:54,120 of interesting stories in the true crime space, and we wanted to highlight three 80 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,160 in particular. So we're going to start off today with John Vanderslout, who 81 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,240 is the lead suspect in the Natalie Holloway case. Joran vander Slut couldn't ask 82 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,800 for a nicer guy. He's going to be extradited to the United States from 83 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:13,959 where he's currently incarcerated in Peru. He's going to be facing charges of extortion 84 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,399 and wire fraud in the case of Natalie Holloway. For anyone who is unaware, 85 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:25,839 Natalie Holloway was a teenager eighteen years old who disappeared on May thirtieth, 86 00:06:25,879 --> 00:06:30,399 two thousand and five, when she was on a graduation trip to Aruba. 87 00:06:30,519 --> 00:06:33,839 She was last seen in the company of Joran vander Salute and two of his 88 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,800 friends, after which she seemed to have dropped off the face of the earth. 89 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:44,920 And the charges stem then from extortion, not murder necessarily. Yes, 90 00:06:45,079 --> 00:06:48,079 that's right now. Mister vander Slut has been serving a sentence of twenty eight 91 00:06:48,199 --> 00:06:54,759 years in prison in Peru already frame murder that he did demonstrably commit, and 92 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,639 that is the strangulation murder of a woman named Stephanie Flores in his hotel room 93 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,240 Lima on May thirtieth, twenty ten, which is literally five years to the 94 00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:09,639 day after Natalie Holloway's disappearance. Very strange, You're very strange. Those charges 95 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,759 of extortion and fraud here in the United States come from his attempt in twenty 96 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:20,319 ten to sell information about the location of Natalie Holloway's remains to her mother at 97 00:07:20,319 --> 00:07:25,839 a price of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. This is where the snark 98 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,480 comes in. This guy is such a classy guy. Not only is he 99 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,600 suspected in the murder of Natalie Holloway, which is still unresolved, this slee's 100 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:43,439 ball actually attempted to sell information about her whereabouts her remains to her mother for 101 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,879 two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. I'm going to read from some reporting from 102 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,040 CN here. Quote the missing eighteen year old's mother, Beth Holloway, wired 103 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:56,480 fifteen thousand dollars to a bank account Vander Salute held in the Netherlands, and 104 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,639 through an attorney, gave him another ten thousand dollars in person, stated the 105 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,120 indictment against him. Quote. Once he had the initial twenty five thousand dollars. 106 00:08:03,199 --> 00:08:09,839 Vanderslute showed Holloway's attorney, John Kelly, where Natalie Holloway's remains allegedly were 107 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,680 hidden. However, the information turned out to be false, the indictment states, 108 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:18,519 continuing your thought about being a classic guy, Bill, he doesn't even 109 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,319 give the correct information once the money has been given to him about her remains. 110 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:28,800 So the indictment seeks to require Vanderslute to four foot the twenty five thousand, 111 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:35,039 one hundred dollars including this one hundred dollars deposit that Beth Holloway initially transferred 112 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:39,639 to him. He'd be required to give the money back. We still don't 113 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:43,919 know where Natalie's remains can be found. Very sadly, no, he had 114 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:50,120 alleged initially that his father, Paul Vanderslute, the late Paul Vanderslute, I 115 00:08:50,159 --> 00:08:52,879 should add, he did die. He alleged that his father helped him to 116 00:08:54,039 --> 00:08:58,440 move Natalie Holloway's remains and that they were buried under a construction site. That 117 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,000 unfortunately did turn out to be false, and so we have no known location 118 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,559 for Natalie Holloway's remains at this time. I still can't think that there is 119 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,000 a glimmer of truth here somewhere, which is I believe, as do many 120 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:18,159 others, that Vanderslute and his two sleeves Ball associates probably raped and murdered Natalie 121 00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:22,279 and hid her remains, and the father may be involved, but obviously they 122 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:28,799 didn't find her remains at the site he originally described. The Natalie Holloway case 123 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:33,799 has been particularly fraught with twists and turns for anybody who's unfamiliar the sequence of 124 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:39,440 events unfolded like this Jurin Vanderslute and his two as you said, sleeves Ball 125 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:46,679 associates Atipakin Satish Kalpo were the last people seen with Natalie Holloway in a Ruba. 126 00:09:46,879 --> 00:09:50,360 She left a nightclub with them, and she had gone to a Ruba, 127 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:52,919 as we previously said, for a high school graduation trip. After she 128 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,919 was seen leaving the nightclub with the three of them, she was never seen 129 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,159 again. Vanderslute and the Kalpa brothers were rested in two thousand and five in 130 00:10:01,399 --> 00:10:07,000 connection to her disappearance, but they ultimately had to be released due to insufficient 131 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,519 evidence. Two years later, in two thousand and seven, they were re 132 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:16,080 arrested and charged for quote involvement in the voluntary manslaughter of Natalie Holloway or causing 133 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:20,600 serious bodily harm to Natalie Holloway resulting in her death. And that's according to 134 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:24,240 the prosecutors in Aruba. It didn't stop there though. A few weeks later, 135 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,759 Vanderslute and the Kalpoe brothers were released because there was quote a lack of 136 00:10:28,799 --> 00:10:33,600 direct evidence that Holloway died from a violent crime or that Vanderslut was involved in 137 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:37,960 such a crime. So they've never really been able to hold him for anything 138 00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:43,279 with relation to her murder. Yeah, it's very frustrating and sad there's this 139 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,759 stop start aspect to this investigation. Now, Duran Vanderslut has been in jail, 140 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,759 as we stated at the top of the pod, since two twelve. 141 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,000 He was found guilty of the strangulation murder of a woman named Stephanie Ramirez Flores 142 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:01,720 in his hotel room in two ten. He did confess to the crime, 143 00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:05,840 he recanted it later a confession. As a confession, he stated that he 144 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:13,559 found Stephanie Flores going through his emails and killed her in a frenzy. And 145 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,919 for that crime he is serving a twenty eight year sentence and in addition, 146 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:24,360 he had eighteen years tacked onto that sentence because he was trafficking cocaine from prison 147 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,279 just never stops. In order to get him back to the United States to 148 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:35,120 face these fraud charges and extortion charges, Peru agreed to what's called a request 149 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:41,039 for temporary surrender of Vanderslut so that he can come over here to Alabama and 150 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,080 he can stand trial for the extortion and fraud charges. I'm going to report 151 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,720 out from the Peruvian news agency and Dina. Peru has an extradition treaty with 152 00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:54,279 the US and previously had agreed to extradite Vanderslute only after he finished serving the 153 00:11:54,360 --> 00:12:00,399 murder sentence, meaning US officials would have had to wait until twenty thirty eight. 154 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,840 But he will be temporarily returned to the US for trial, then returned 155 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,879 to Peru to finish serving his sentence for the murder of Stephanie Flores. If 156 00:12:07,919 --> 00:12:11,720 convicted in federal court in Alabama, he'll be sent back to the US in 157 00:12:11,759 --> 00:12:16,000 twenty thirty eight to serve up to forty more years in an American prison. 158 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:22,879 Something very appealing about him rotting in a Peruvian jail. It just somehow appeals 159 00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:26,360 to me because this guy is just the worst. Oh. Kabbeth Holloway did 160 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:31,919 release a statement to the press with regard to the extradition of Joran Vander salute. 161 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,000 I want to go ahead and read her remarks because they are very moving. 162 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,200 Quote. In May two thousand and five, my eighteen year old daughter, 163 00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:43,240 Natalie Holloway left Birmingham for Ruba to attend her high school graduation trip and 164 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,639 was never seen again. I was blessed to have had Natalie in my life 165 00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:50,159 for eighteen years, and as of this month, I have been without her 166 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,960 for exactly eighteen years. She would be thirty six years old. Now. 167 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,200 It has been a very long and painful journey, but the persistence of many 168 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,679 is going to pay off. Together, we are finally getting justice for Natalie. 169 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,240 Our friend Cheryl macmccollum, working with Nancy Grace and others, has covered 170 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,000 this case quite extensively. As you said, Kristen, it is a case 171 00:13:11,039 --> 00:13:16,519 with a lot of twists and turns. I'm hopeful that at least they'll be 172 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,279 able to charge Van der Slot with fraud and get this money back. It 173 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:26,399 can claw these funds back. You can see how missus Holloway might have been 174 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,320 desperate enough to give money to this criminal in exchange for information about where her 175 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,960 daughter's remains could be found. It's a heartbreaking case all the way around. 176 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:39,600 And I know, in reading about the case and watching some of the coverage 177 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,480 that Mac and Nancy Grace and others have done, the authorities in Aruba have 178 00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:48,480 been less than stellar, shall we say, in terms of the resources and 179 00:13:48,519 --> 00:13:54,480 the amount of cooperation. They seem more interested in threatening Mac and others with 180 00:13:54,759 --> 00:13:58,440 arrest because they dared to be in Aruba. And this is one of those 181 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,440 situations. I'm not victim blaming in the least, but you need to think 182 00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:09,639 long and hard before you consider an international vacation, particularly I think with young 183 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,679 people, and you know there's going to be alcohol and a good time is 184 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,879 going to be had by a group of young people. That's something like a 185 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:22,360 situation where your daughter disappears while on vacation. In Aruba, you can find 186 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:30,480 yourself really struggling against laws and rules and even law enforcement who don't necessarily work 187 00:14:30,559 --> 00:14:33,919 in the same way they would here in the United States. And of course 188 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,080 Aruba wants to promote tourism and they don't really want the black eye that would 189 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,879 come with something like the Holloway case. It is what it is exactly. 190 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,200 I had just heard a couple of days ago, just at least scanning through 191 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,559 the news, I saw that there was an American teenager who had fallen off 192 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,000 his cruise ship in the Bahamas and would now consider missing Prusium dead. Just 193 00:14:54,039 --> 00:14:58,279 so sad all the way around. But that definitely brought to mind the Natalie 194 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,440 Halloway case. Let's look for war developments in that case, at least in 195 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:07,840 terms of the fraud aspect of what has transpired. The other story that we've 196 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:13,639 been following so closely here on Mind Over Murder is that of doomsday mommy Lorie 197 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,200 Valo day Bell, and the hits just keep on coming for her. Laurie 198 00:15:18,279 --> 00:15:22,720 Vallo day Bell was recently indicted in Arizona on charges that she conspired to kill 199 00:15:22,759 --> 00:15:28,879 her niece, Melanie's ex husband, Brandon Bedreau. This is the case where 200 00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:33,559 you feel like you need a diagram to figure out all of the people that 201 00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:39,559 have been touched by this completely toxic, cult driven couple. It just seems 202 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:46,240 so many different people who loved and supported Laurie Vallo and her evil cult leading 203 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:50,960 husband's chad. So many of those people seem to have ended up dead. 204 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,919 It's actually pretty shocking, and Brandon Boudreau is just one of the people on 205 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:03,759 that list. So who was Brandon boudreaudn Bedrow was the ex husband of Laurie's 206 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:11,639 niece Melanie, and Brandon Bedrow had been in the midst of divorce proceedings from 207 00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:17,960 his wife Melanie when in twenty nineteen, he was dropping his kids off at 208 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,759 school, Laurie's brother, Alex Cox, took a shot at him, like 209 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,320 a literal shot from a gun. The bullet ripped through the driver's side door 210 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:33,960 of his tesla in Gilbert, Arizona, and very luckily he managed to survive 211 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:40,240 this attempted hit. There are several counts that were laid out against Laurie Valo 212 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,600 with regard to this particular event. The indictment reads, quote on or about 213 00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:52,080 October twenty nineteen, with the intent to promote or aid the commission of an 214 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:57,000 offense, Laurie Valo agreed with Alexander Cox that at least one of them or 215 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:04,279 another would engage in conduct constituting the offense of first degree premeditated murder. The 216 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:11,000 state further alleges that the offense charged in this count is a dangerous felony because 217 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:15,759 the offense involved the discharge, use, or threatening exhibition of a gun, 218 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:22,480 a dudley weapon, or dangerous instrument, and or the intentional or knowing infliction 219 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:30,599 of serious physical injury upon Brandon Bedreau. And then the next charges indicate exactly 220 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,880 what the pattern is here. It's very interesting that this is going to be 221 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:41,599 the second set of charges against her in Arizona. She is already facing a 222 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,559 separate felony case also in Gilbert, after a grand jury indicted her in twenty 223 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:51,799 twenty one on a charge of conspiring to kill her fourth husband, Charles Valow. 224 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,200 If you remember from our reporting and from our interview with John Glatt, 225 00:17:56,519 --> 00:18:02,359 Laurie's brother Alex Cox, shot and killed Charles Vallo, her fourth husband, 226 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,240 on July eleventh, twenty nineteen. He orchestrated this. Alex Cox, who 227 00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:14,480 had a very unhealthy obsession as we understand it, with his sister, effectively 228 00:18:14,519 --> 00:18:18,880 seems to be acting as a hitman here. Even though the indictment it's regarding 229 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:26,640 the first offense against Brandon Boudreau covers a lot of different basses by indicating that 230 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,759 either she or her brother Alex were going to kill the former brother in law. 231 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:37,079 It seems that Alex is the guy that ends up actually implementing these attacks, 232 00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:41,279 and she's got him so wrapped around her finger that she's able to put 233 00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:45,440 her brother up to multiple murders and assaults, and then he, of course 234 00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:52,319 conveniently ended up dead as well. The whole thing is just so bizarre. 235 00:18:52,839 --> 00:18:56,279 You couldn't write fiction this strange now, and if you did, people would 236 00:18:56,319 --> 00:19:00,880 say, that's so highly that's so highly weird, and suspect that nobody would 237 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,319 ever believe that, as we're all aware at this point, unless we've been 238 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,279 living under a rock. She was found guilty in Idaho earlier this month of 239 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,640 conspiring to kill and then actually killing her two youngest children, seven year old 240 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,400 JJ and sixteen year old Tailey, but she was also found guilty of conspiring 241 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,480 to kill Tammy day Bell, her fifth husband Chad day Bell's previous wife, 242 00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:27,079 or the string of dead bodies and these poor kids. This somehow is the 243 00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:32,759 most heartbreaking aspect of this entire thing. To lose all of these adults is 244 00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:36,680 a terrible thing, but then these two kids, even her sister said, 245 00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:38,920 you could have given them to us and we would have taken care of them, 246 00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:44,680 rather than murder them, hide their bodies and head off to Hawaii with 247 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,200 your new husband. I feel particularly awful for Kay and Larry Woodcock, who 248 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,519 have been here through the whole entire thing. They were quoted in the media 249 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,559 as saying, we have three trials to go. Now. They've had to 250 00:19:57,559 --> 00:20:02,519 sit through Laurie's trial, which I'm sure it was deeply emotionally fraught for them, 251 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,519 and then they do have three trials remaining with regard to this whole sequence 252 00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:12,000 of events. They've got Laurie's trial for Charles Vallo's murder, They've got her 253 00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:18,279 trial for conspiracy to commit murder against Brandon Bedreaux, and then they still have 254 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,960 Chad day Bell's trial for the murder of JJ and Tyley. I can't imagine 255 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,920 what that would do to people who have had to sit through this many trials 256 00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:33,200 and hear this many recountings of how evil and awful this woman is. The 257 00:20:33,319 --> 00:20:37,720 prosecutors made the decision, which I completely understand, that they had to separate 258 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,079 the trial of Laurie Valo day Bell and Chad day Bell, her new husband 259 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:48,240 number five. It seems to perpetuate the pain, it would seem for the 260 00:20:48,319 --> 00:20:52,960 surviving family members and for the community. But I don't see much way around 261 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,480 it. They were pointing out in case we're still trying to work out timelines 262 00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:02,599 here, Laurie cannot leave Idaho and be extra day to Arizona until she's sentenced 263 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,519 for Tyley and JJ's murder, and that's not going to happen until later this 264 00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:11,240 year. Once the sentencing is done and wrapped up in Idaho, then she'll 265 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,839 be extradited to Arizona and then the whole process will begin again and she'll have 266 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,720 to go through the two trials there, and then I assume Chad day Bell's 267 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,039 trial will occur a little bit later in the year as well. So for 268 00:21:22,079 --> 00:21:26,680 those of us who are hoping to never see their faces again, I'm referring 269 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,640 to Lori and Chad here when I say that, I think we're going to 270 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,240 have to live with this for a while, because this is going to be 271 00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:37,799 stretching out, probably over the next several years. Yeah, it sounds like 272 00:21:37,839 --> 00:21:41,279 it. We would remind our listeners that we did just cover Lori and Chad's 273 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:45,960 trial in some depth on a couple of our true crime news roundups. But 274 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,680 we also had an excellent interview with John Glatt, author of The Doomsday Mother, 275 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,200 and we would highly encourage you to listen to that if you have not 276 00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:56,920 done so already. John had some amazing and interesting insights into this case you're 277 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,799 listening to. Mind Over Murder will be right back after this word from our 278 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:12,279 sponsors. We're back here at Mind Over Murder, all right. Next, 279 00:22:12,319 --> 00:22:15,759 we're going to go ahead and get into another of the cases that seems to 280 00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:21,839 have permeated this whole entire year, and that is the continuing saga of Brian 281 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,559 Cooburger, who has now been both indicted and arraigned in the Idaho four murders. 282 00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:32,119 Hugh's murderer, Brian Cooburger was indicted by a grand jury on Tuesday, 283 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,200 May sixteenth for the November twenty twenty two murders of the four University of Idaho 284 00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:41,400 students in their off campus home in Moscow, Idaho. That indictment paved the 285 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,640 way for his arraignment on murder charges on Monday May twenty second. I'm gonna 286 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,839 go ahead and read some reporting from NBC News quote the indictment returned in leytah 287 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:55,880 County against Brian Coburger twenty eight says he did unlawfully enter a home in Moscow, 288 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,279 Idaho, and then did willfully, unlawfully, deliberately, with premeditation and 289 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:07,680 with malice aforethought, kill and murder victims Matti Mogan, kay Lee Gancalveez, 290 00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:12,359 Zana Carnadal, and Ethan Shapement. And that's according to reporting from NBC News. 291 00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:18,920 So a preliminary hearing on that case was originally scheduled for June, So 292 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,400 we wouldn't even have this much except for the fact that the prosecutors very unexpectedly 293 00:23:23,519 --> 00:23:29,000 decided that rather than weight for a preliminary hearing, they wanted to impanel a 294 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,200 grand jury. The reason for impaneling a grand jury, in my understanding, 295 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:37,839 is twofold number one. It allowed the state to avoid that week long preliminary 296 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:44,240 hearing, and it also got around the need to permit the defense counsel to 297 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,319 cross examine witnesses. If you'll remember, a couple of weeks back, the 298 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,039 surviving roommate from the house where those students lived had been expressing how much she 299 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,200 did not want to be present out of preliminary hearing. And I'm wondering if 300 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:02,359 maybe some of this was an attempt to save her from having to go through 301 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,160 the trauma of appearing in front of a judge and being questioned on this. 302 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,559 I'm wondering if that at least is part of this. I think it is, 303 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:14,359 and I also think from what we've read and talking to experts about this 304 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,880 case, this is a very complicated case. The FBI, the ADHOST, 305 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,799 State Police, and other law enforcement agencies work together as a team to put 306 00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:29,119 this case together, but it's a very complicated case with multiple DNA sources, 307 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:37,559 electronic surveillance, the use of cell phone tracking, and analysis of dozens of 308 00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:44,319 camera sources, and trying to calculate Koberger's movements both in the week leading up 309 00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:48,359 to the murders as well as the night of the quadruple homicide. I think 310 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:56,920 the prosecutors would like to push back the presentation of all of this material as 311 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:02,119 far back as possible so that they can present the strongest possible case. And 312 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:07,240 I think they did not have any interest in this surviving housemate from having to 313 00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:11,359 testify at what they were guard as this early date, so I think they 314 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,559 wanted to push everything back as far as possible so they can get Coburger and 315 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,720 his defense team with the strongest possible case, and they'd like to try to 316 00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:23,839 do it once and as effectively as possible. That sends about right to me. 317 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,400 So, after the grand jury returned an indictment, and I think it 318 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,079 was to everybody's surprised that it went to the grand jury, that then meant 319 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,480 that Coburger could be arraigned on the murder and breaking and entering charges. And 320 00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:38,960 so on Monday, May twenty second, he was arraigned on those charges. 321 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,240 Now, he didn't speak in court, and I thought this was interesting. 322 00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:48,759 When the judge makes that request, how do you please, Brian Coburger didn't 323 00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:55,039 speak. His lawyer spoke for him and said, your honor, we are 324 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,680 standing silent. And so here's what that means from CNN here quote. The 325 00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:04,160 inventional legal strategy, also known as standing mute, relies on an Idaho criminal 326 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,400 rule, which requires a judge to then enter a not guilty plea on the 327 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:15,759 defendant's behalf, effectively allowing him to avoid verbally committing to being guilty or not 328 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:21,200 guilty. I don't think it matters what Koburger says in court, and even 329 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:26,160 a number of attorneys said this is meaningless grandstanding at best. Yeah. CNN 330 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,440 spoke to his attorney from Seattle named Ann Brahmar, and she said, quote, 331 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,920 it doesn't matter what he says or doesn't say. Either way, he's 332 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,480 on the record with a not guilty plea. The standing silent or the standing 333 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:44,519 mute plea is unusual, but it's not unheard of. Nicholas Cruz, the 334 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,440 gunman responsible for the Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School massacre from twenty eighteen, also 335 00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:56,279 chose to stand silent at his particular court case. Spoke to a couple of 336 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,759 different law professors and asked, Okay, why would you like is the benefit 337 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,880 to doing this as a defendant? What is the benefit the standing silent? 338 00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:07,720 So I'm going to quote from University of Idaho law professor Samuel Newton. The 339 00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:11,720 defendant may want to avoid criticism that could come with a certain plea. A 340 00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:15,480 not guilty plea, for example, may spark public outrage that they are not 341 00:27:15,559 --> 00:27:22,119 taking a responsibility for their alleged actions. Prosecutors and defense attorneys may also be 342 00:27:22,279 --> 00:27:26,960 negotiating behind the scenes, potentially discussing a plea agreement, wondering about that, 343 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,400 what do you think Idaho's a death penalty state. This series of murders is 344 00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:38,319 particularly heinous in that four young people were brutally murdered. It would appear by 345 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:44,200 an offender. And if Koburger's found guilty, I think there's a very strong 346 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,960 chance that he may be headed into a death penalty case. His attorneys, 347 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,400 we'll have a job to do, and I think one of their goals maybe 348 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,039 to try to keep him alive. They may be trying to head off a 349 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,880 death penalty charge. And there may be some effort to plead down to something 350 00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:04,519 that would result in perhaps life imprisonment without parole, something like that. I 351 00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:11,759 don't know about all this standing silent stuff. He did actually speak at other 352 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:17,880 points. He did answer a couple of questions I saw from watching the available 353 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,599 video. But then when it comes to the place where you're actually asked, 354 00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:25,440 how do you plead? That's when he pulls this kind of odd stunt. 355 00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:30,160 And it didn't serve Nicholas Cruz down in Florida particularly well. And I don't 356 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,279 think it's going to make one wit of difference in the Coburger case. They've 357 00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:38,920 got to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he's responsible for these four homicides. 358 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,279 His decision to plead not guilty effectively by saying nothing. I think it's essentially 359 00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:51,319 meaningless. I think there are times that Coburger may act like he thinks he's 360 00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:53,880 the smartest person in the room, and he may think that, and it's 361 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,599 possible he is. But I don't think he's going to get away with murder. 362 00:28:56,759 --> 00:29:00,519 I just the fact that Cne actually said flatted and the reporting they took 363 00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:07,319 that into consideration. A quote from the Idaho law professor Newton did say it 364 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,960 could simply be the defendant is being difficult and not wanting to cooperate, and 365 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,559 a Seattle lawyer, Raymer, followed that up by saying, maybe he's just 366 00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,319 trying to be defiant or attempting to show he's the smartest guy in the courtroom. 367 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,880 And she mentioned that he does have that background as a criminology student, 368 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,519 and she said he knew enough about criminal studies that it would have an impact 369 00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:29,599 on him. If you're right, and if he's just pulling this, I'm 370 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,400 the smartest guy in the room. No one's going to expect me to do 371 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,119 this. I'm going to do it. Attorney Bremner also noted by the way, 372 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:41,000 there's no insanity defense in the state of Idaho, so that is off 373 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,599 the table. This is going to be interesting, Like these other cases, 374 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,720 probably going to take a long time to get to resolution, and death penalty 375 00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:55,640 cases if we go down that road hand to be appealed, and extremely long 376 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,519 in duration, years and years, sometimes even decades. I am wondering if 377 00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:02,240 he's going to lead out at some point or another. I'm wondering if there's 378 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,640 a plea deal in the works behind the scenes. It's something that I've been 379 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,200 wondering about from the beginning, just to get the death penalty off the table. 380 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,920 I'm wondering if he's going to be willing to do that, But who 381 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,359 knows. He's also said any number of times so that he's looking forward to 382 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,000 proving his own innocence at his trial. So I think it could be also 383 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:21,160 that he has enough of an ego that he wants to do the grandstanding of 384 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,920 the trial. All I can say is I'm rooting for the families of these 385 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,559 victims, and our hearts go out to them. This whole thing just seems 386 00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:34,640 like such a shame for very promising young people wiped out in an evening and 387 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,400 then the more we learn about Coburger, the more of a creepstir it seems 388 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,720 to be. I think the picture that will ultimately be painted here is going 389 00:30:44,759 --> 00:30:48,680 to be one that is extremely disturbing. I hope that he doesn't pull a 390 00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:52,880 Tad Bundy and decide to represent himself in court, because quite frankly, I 391 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,359 wouldn't put it past him that'll go nowhere. He's still going to end up 392 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,440 either spending the rest of his life in jail, in my opinion, or 393 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,880 face a firing squad. They've actually brought the firing squad back in Idaho, 394 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,839 which seems a little archaic to me, but cool. My Frank Coberger's case 395 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,799 is set to go to trial on October second of this year, and that's 396 00:31:11,839 --> 00:31:15,319 expected to be about six weeks in length, so expect every podcast that you 397 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,960 listen to around that time to start doing reporting on the Idaho four again, 398 00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:22,079 and of course we won't be doing our reporting on that as well. We 399 00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:26,119 also wanted to mention some other events that are coming up where if you are 400 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,160 interested in learning more about true crime and maybe meeting us face to face, 401 00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:34,400 there'll be a couple of opportunities coming up. We're going to be attending the 402 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:41,559 True Crime Podcast and Paranormal Festivil, which is a mouthful. I'm a fan 403 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,559 of the paranormal. I'm not sure that true crime and paranormal will necessarily go 404 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,880 together, but I don't know. But that's where you get Unsolved mysteries. 405 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,519 Though that that's true, You're absolutely right, and I am a fan of 406 00:31:53,599 --> 00:32:00,359 unsolved mysteries. We were saddened to learn that the Unsolved Mysteries podcast was being 407 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:06,440 discontinued and our French d French will be now using that masterful voice on lots 408 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,519 of other projects. Oh, I was so heartbroken. The True Crime Podcast 409 00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:15,119 and Paranormal Festival is going to be in Austin, Texas, one of our 410 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,359 favorite places. The dates are August twenty fifth through the twenty seventh. If 411 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,119 you're able to get down that way, we would love to see you. 412 00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:25,359 It's going to be held at the Double Tree by Hilton Hotel, where I 413 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:30,160 have spoken before. Beautiful town, Lots to do and see and this should 414 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,880 be lots of fun. And we're actually going to be reporting out on the 415 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,519 Phoenix Canal killer case as well as the Colonial Parkway murders in conjunction with other 416 00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:45,559 podcasters it should be really fun. I think it should be too. We'll 417 00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:50,079 mix in some lighthearted moments to offset any of the heavy stuff that we cover. 418 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,880 Julie Murray is going to be down there or talking to about ethics and 419 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,240 true crime. She's one of our favorite people and we were very happy to 420 00:32:57,279 --> 00:32:59,920 interview her a few months ago, so I think that's going to be a 421 00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:04,039 fantastic event. Following that, by about a month, we're going to be 422 00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:08,079 heading back to crime Con. The dates this year are September twenty two through 423 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:14,359 twenty four, and that's down in Orlando, Florida at the World Center Marriott. 424 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,359 If you're a crime con fan, if this is your first time going, 425 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:22,720 or I think this is my fifth and your fourth my fourth, Yeah, 426 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,160 I think this is five times for me. There's only been six crime 427 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:30,119 cons we skipped the first year. Crime Con should be lots of fun. 428 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,319 That one is very large sale. I think they're about five thousand people there 429 00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,960 year in Las Vegas. It really was quite crazy. And we've applied to 430 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,039 a peer on podcast Row again, so we'll let you know once we get 431 00:33:43,079 --> 00:33:47,119 confirmed on that. Those two events are both opportunities for us to meet you 432 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,119 face to face and We would love that as well as for you to say 433 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,839 hello and maybe get a chance to do a selfie or do some chat. 434 00:33:55,039 --> 00:34:00,680 It'll be fun regardless, so True Crime Podcast Festival August twenty fifth through the 435 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:06,240 twenty seventh in Austin, Texas and Crime Con September twenty two through twenty four 436 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,840 in Orlando. Absolutely, it's going to be a lot of fun. And 437 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:15,880 then we do have some Colonial Parkway Murders specific events that are coming up in 438 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,960 October in Virginia. We're not quite ready to release all the details on those 439 00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:25,000 yet, but please do look for information both on mind Over Murder and Colonial 440 00:34:25,039 --> 00:34:30,519 Parkway Murders as we start developing more specific dates and times and details. We 441 00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:34,599 would love to be able to share all of these interesting things that are going 442 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,519 on with you all, so please be on the lookout for those. We've 443 00:34:37,559 --> 00:34:40,159 got a busy summer and fall, don't we. We sure do. And 444 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,079 boy, even though our last week's podcast has only been out for a day, 445 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:52,400 we're getting fantastic feedback on this latest episode we did with author Catherine Kate 446 00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:57,800 Miles on the impact of her book Trailed on the nineteen ninety six murder case 447 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,840 of Julie Williams and Lolly Wine and we absolutely love Kate. And of course 448 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,519 Kristen and Kate had a chance to meet face to face, yeah, just 449 00:35:06,679 --> 00:35:10,719 recently and it was really love fest And I think Kate is an amazing writer 450 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,400 and a very inspirational individual. And if you haven't had a chance to check 451 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,559 that out, please do. The feedback so far, even though it's only 452 00:35:19,559 --> 00:35:22,920 been for less than a day, is really amazingly positive and I think that's 453 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,320 to Kate's credit. Also when I give a shout out. By the time 454 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,000 we have when we are recording this, I will not have done this event 455 00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:34,280 yet, but by the time this podcast comes out, I will have. 456 00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:37,079 So we're in a little bit of a time work here, but let go. 457 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,840 Are we in the spacetime continuum? Now we're messed up. We're messed 458 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,639 up in the spacetime continuum as of the time that we are recording this. 459 00:35:46,039 --> 00:35:52,079 I am looking forward to attending the Hope Without Boundaries five k which is being 460 00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:57,760 sponsored by the Black and Missing Foundation that's in Washington, DC this coming up 461 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,280 weekend. I am looking forward to going to running, to meeting all of 462 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,719 the folks from Black and Missing and to being able to use what I love 463 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,320 to do, which is running to advocate for those people who are missing and 464 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,920 murdered. And I think it's going to be an absolute blast. So by 465 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,239 the time you guys hear this, I will have run it. But as 466 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:21,280 if right now when we're recording it, I have not. So let's see 467 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:28,960 that means that the future is past or the pastest future or the pastest prologue. 468 00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:32,239 The little weird, isn't it. But I have no doubt it's going 469 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,039 to be a great event. The weather already looks like it's going to be 470 00:36:36,159 --> 00:36:38,679 very nice, and I've taken Friday off school. I'm going to look forward 471 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,920 to being able to drive up there, see some of the museums, go 472 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,119 do my race on Saturday, see some friends. I think it's going to 473 00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:49,880 be very good time. Why do I have the overwhelming urge to say something 474 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:55,639 like the future is and we're very excited that you're able to run and show 475 00:36:55,679 --> 00:37:00,199 support for the Black and Missing Foundation in all seriousness, fantastic organization, doing 476 00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:05,159 great work. And you may recall that we interviewed Dereka Natalie Wilson, the 477 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,840 fabulous duo horse sisters in law who founded the Black and Missing Foundation, and 478 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,960 we are major fans of these two amazing women, and I'm so glad you're 479 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,039 able to go and do this thing. I think this is going to be 480 00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:19,280 a lot of fun, and this is definitely giving me ideas for things that 481 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,119 we can do as a podcast to help promote our specific causes and cases. 482 00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:29,639 So starting to think, can we design our own five K? I think 483 00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:31,559 we might. I like it. That's going to do it for this episode 484 00:37:31,559 --> 00:37:35,000 of mind Over Murder. If you like what we're doing, please make sure 485 00:37:35,039 --> 00:37:37,960 that you leave us a five start rating interview on any and all of your 486 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,079 preferred podcast platforms. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of mind 487 00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:53,800 Over Murder. We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production 488 00:37:53,880 --> 00:38:00,480 of Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers Bill Thomas and Kristin 489 00:38:00,599 --> 00:38:06,440 Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by 490 00:38:06,519 --> 00:38:10,800 Kevin McLeod. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. 491 00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:15,519 You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also 492 00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:21,079 follow our page on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you 493 00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:24,840 can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six Thank you for 494 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,320 listening to Mind Over Murder.