WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.960 The o' chili effect is sponsored by Wallstreet, Window dot Com and listeners like 2 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:16.800 you ye, yeah yeah and media Yeah twenty sixth day of December twenty twenty 3 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:20.320 three, allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar, and this is 4 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:24.640 the o'ceelli effect. So we are live. I've gone to the stream very 5 00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:27.960 very late, but that is because first of all, I had a little 6 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:32.960 technical issue, and then I wound up talking to my guest tonight for a 7 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:37.520 little while, okay, and uh yeah, just kind of lost track of 8 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:41.159 time. So those of you catching the podcast, you don't care. And 9 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:45.600 by the way, you might hear little squeaks and stuff in the background because 10 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:49.359 I got a box of puppies next to me. But anyway, they are 11 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:52.359 squeaking, they are making noise, and they are my co hosts for tonight. 12 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:57.399 So if you caught the video with t Snyder from Sunday night, we 13 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:00.399 just kept the camera on the puppies, right, so you had the puppy 14 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:04.239 cam the other night, check that out on Rumble and such, and there 15 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:07.840 they are nice and loud right on cue. Anyway, Pat Spear is with 16 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.319 me. Who is Pat Spear? Well, if you're a JFK researcher, 17 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:15.040 and you've been keeping track of things for the past while. You might know 18 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:19.280 who he is. But if you don't, let me tell you about something. 19 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:25.120 It's called the mysterious death of Number thirty five. Okay, what was 20 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:29.239 that? Well, it was this video that was on YouTube that I saw. 21 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:33.120 I'm thinking, and I didn't check the date before we started here, 22 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:37.200 but just going back to my memory, flipping through my index, I'm thinking 23 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:42.359 to myself, somewhere around twenty ten, maybe twenty eleven, twenty twelve, 24 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:48.640 somewhere between twenty ten and the fiftieth anniversary, I saw this video online and 25 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:53.280 what was it about the medical evidence and the mysterious death of number thirty five. 26 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.200 I thought that was an interesting turn of phrase, because, after all, 27 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:01.239 JFK is the thirty fifth president. He definitely had a mysterious death, 28 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:07.680 and we've been studying it ever after now sixty years on. Anyway, I 29 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:12.960 saw this video series and I heard about Pat Spear for the first time. 30 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:17.199 I think he did a spot on black Op Radio somewhere around there. Very 31 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:22.439 interesting, but I've always valued it. Now recently, when I was getting 32 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:25.719 things together and thinking about rarefied information and good stuff. Right before I went 33 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:30.120 to go MC the Lancer conference, and we had the whole run up to 34 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:35.000 Dallas this year. On the show and everything, I contacted Pat Spear and 35 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:37.599 said, you know, Pat, along with many of the other things that 36 00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:43.639 I lost in life due to divorce, etc. I lost your DVD and 37 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:47.479 really valued it and appreciated it. Well, anyway, I got one back 38 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:52.479 in my hands and it is now part of my DVD collection that I'm rebuilding, 39 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:57.039 along with my book collection and my photographic collection on the Kennedy case, 40 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.719 and it is just that valuable. I would consider it essential. Indeed, 41 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:06.840 you can still see the videos online parts one through four, I believe if 42 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:13.120 you go to this channel on YouTube called Noise Vision. Anyways, all that 43 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:15.479 aside, I've got Pat Spear with me and I have been talking to him 44 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:20.919 for about twenty or thirty minutes off air already, So if he isn't sick 45 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:27.000 of me yet, we're gonna have a little conversation about this particular presentation. 46 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:31.599 And well we also mentioned him on the show last week talking to Larry Hancock, 47 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:36.360 so maybe we'll find out why that happened as well. Pat Spear, 48 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.520 how you doing tonight, man? I'm doing fine right now. Yeah, 49 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:46.159 excellent. Look, I know that introduction was a little sloppy, but it 50 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:49.599 is the way I go. I'm a little atypical, and we are conversation 51 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.879 based here. It's not like a question and answer call and response interviews. 52 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:58.919 So let me ask you first, because you tell the story of what got 53 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:02.719 you interested in the case in general in your life. And if you watch 54 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:05.719 the videos, guys, you'll hear about how he got handed a half dollar, 55 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:10.199 which is a little different from my story. I got a half dollar 56 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.919 at one point too. But I tell you about when in third grade, 57 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:16.279 because you know, I went to school in the seventies. I'm fifty one 58 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:20.800 years old, you know, so I wasn't alive when the Kennedy assassination happened. 59 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:25.160 But by the time I got the third grade, there was this mention 60 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:29.439 in class. And of course my first objection to the whole thing was when 61 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:32.920 my teacher said the guy who was supposed to have shot him was killed in 62 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:38.720 police custody, and as a street wise nine or eight year old, I 63 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:43.040 forget, which I stated, well, gee, unless the cops or a 64 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:48.680 fellow prisoner killed him, there's something wrong with this story. And yeah, 65 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:54.879 there is something wrong with the story. But pat, look, like I 66 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.720 said, they can find out in the video about how you got introduced to 67 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:02.040 it kind of as a child. But how about what caused you to decide 68 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:09.839 to make this video series which was extremely ahead of its time actually, And 69 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:14.120 you know nowadays people have all sorts of production values on their youtubes and this 70 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:18.000 and that. But we had even just discussed before we went to air about 71 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:23.920 how JFK stuff was really rudimentary until you kind of did this online. So 72 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:30.040 what provoked you to do this interesting presentation, talk about the mystery photo and 73 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:35.839 all of that and do it online in this very like well organized, well 74 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:42.680 orchestrated, well produced manner that turned into the mysterious death of Number thirty five. 75 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:50.199 Well, I was interested in the case in you know, I had 76 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:54.560 friends who kind of told me about it, and now then saw the movie 77 00:05:54.639 --> 00:06:00.079 JFK, and I had an interest. And then it really comes down to 78 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.319 what they call FA or the mystery photo, the open crany and the photo 79 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:08.839 of like just an open skull, right, because it was in Robert Grodin's 80 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:14.319 book The Killing of a President, and I looked at it and I was 81 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:16.920 like, oh, there's a bullet hole there. And then I looked at 82 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:20.720 the caption and I didn't mention it, so that was weird. So then 83 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:26.360 I ended up, you know, years when after I got more sucked into 84 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:30.199 the case, I realized that officially what I was thought was a bullet hole 85 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:32.240 in the back of the net, you know, the low on the skull 86 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:39.040 was officially showing the forehead. I'm like, that's not a forehead, and 87 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:45.319 so I was just confounded by the fact that the official story about this photograph 88 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:48.079 was not what just seemed obvious to me. And so then I ended up 89 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:56.920 discovering the JF what's it called History Matters, Rex Bradford's website that had the 90 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:01.319 HCA materials on it, and I just read through all these things and I'm 91 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:06.600 like, I was just in shock that it was officially the forehead and that 92 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:10.639 there was no mention of this what appeared to me to be an obvious bullet 93 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:13.560 hole. So I got really interested in the medical evidence, reading everything I 94 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:17.480 could, got access to the you know, the Rockefeller Commission interviews and stuff 95 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:21.800 like that before you know, most people ever read them, and you know, 96 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:28.079 looked at every autopsy photo I could find online and then eventually I realized 97 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:33.680 that the autopsy photos as shown in David Lifton's book and Robert Grodens's book were 98 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.639 cropped differently, and that one of them, I think it might have been 99 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:41.959 the lifting book, there was a drainage hole on it, and I'm like, 100 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:46.240 well, you can make you could actually study around shape and figure out 101 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.240 what angle you're looking at that round shape is by its dimensions. So I 102 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:56.279 anyhow, so I came up with this idea that like we could I could 103 00:07:56.279 --> 00:08:00.680 do that and figure out what angle this photograph was taken from by looking at 104 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.560 the drainage hole. Also, there there's to be a glass which is presumably 105 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:07.199 you know, a circle on the top of the glass, and you could 106 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.240 do the same there. So at my thirtieth high school reunion, I've had 107 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:16.079 a friend that I knew from school named Brad Mendelsohn, and he went on 108 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:22.600 to produce some rock music videos and actually produced a movie as well, and 109 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:24.120 we were talking and I said, like, you would you know, maybe 110 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:28.000 you could help me do some videos put them on YouTube, and so he's 111 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.600 like, sure, let's do it. Okay, let me pause you right 112 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:35.279 there and just tell the listener that if you go online and you look at 113 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.960 jfk autopsy photos today, there are many different versions that circulate around, and 114 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:43.720 sure back at this particular time earlier on, you might have had to go 115 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:48.159 buy Robert Croden's book or David Lifton's book, and you might have gotten a 116 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:50.919 look at these things. The picture that he's talking about, specifically, just 117 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.559 for reference here, is sort of weird to begin with, because we're all 118 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:00.440 familiar with the stare of death. You can see JFK's face and the look 119 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.879 in his eyes while he's laying, you know, supine, he's on his 120 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:07.399 back. All of that is happening in these autopsy photos that have made their 121 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:13.600 rounds ever since a guy named James Fox decided to sell off his copy, 122 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.600 and god knows that there's more copies out there. But anyway, there's a 123 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:22.759 photo which the skin is peeled away from the skull. This we could all 124 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.600 agree on, okay, regarding this photo. The skin is peeled away from 125 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:33.399 the skull, and obviously you're looking at a bare skull and this is you 126 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:37.759 know, purported to be Kennedy, And there is this obvious sort of notch 127 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:43.080 in part of the bone that almost screams this must be one of the bullet 128 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:48.120 holes in the skull. I'm not saying entrance exit nothing. All I'm saying 129 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:52.879 is that since you know that there was a gunshot to the skull, you're 130 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.440 looking at the skull, You're thinking to yourself, this must be the gunshot. 131 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:00.480 So I just wanted to give that point of reference the case people search 132 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:05.960 around. Maybe I'll put a photo on the on the post or something here 133 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:09.080 to show you guys, or a link to it in the show notes. 134 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:13.480 But good, well you could just go to chapter fourteen at patspere dot com. 135 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.120 There you go, Well, then that's what we'll do. We'll give 136 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:18.879 you the link to chapter fourteen at patspear dot com, which, by the 137 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:22.440 way, has a whole lot of stuff on it, but we'll get to 138 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:24.279 that more later. Please continue on, though, Pat, your friend with 139 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.679 the rock videos, said let's do it. And then what happened. So 140 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.960 we, over the course of about a year and a half, we get 141 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:37.240 together about, you know, maybe twice a month and work on these videos 142 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:39.320 and put them up and it being a four parter. This is this is 143 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.919 people can't even relate because now you could go to YouTube and there's like a 144 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:48.440 four hour video. There was a seven minute limit at first. So that's 145 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:56.000 why if you go online you'll see like part one part you know, just 146 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:58.279 thro your number thirty five, Part one A or Part one B or whatever, 147 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.559 and then later on you'll see it as all one piece. It's because 148 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:05.639 initially, because we had they were kind of all like, you know, 149 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:09.240 twelve to fifteen minute videos, as I recall, but you can only do 150 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:11.960 like seven minutes at a time on YouTube, so you had to split it 151 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:15.039 in half. I mean, even today, when you start out with a 152 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:18.879 brand new YouTube channel and it's been so long since you've done that and so 153 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.399 long since I've done it, we might forget this. But even today you're 154 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.320 limited to fifteen minutes on a video to start with. Now you can easily 155 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.320 build it up, and obviously there are people out there with eight, nine, 156 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:33.840 ten, twelve hour videos which you're allowed to do. But it's become 157 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:39.399 a more expansive and more easily accessible thing as the years have gone on. 158 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.480 But you're talking about a time when it was really actually kind of tough to 159 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:50.159 upload stuff like this, and they didn't have all the different software available and 160 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:54.960 different little helper things. The YouTube studio was some years away, et cetera. 161 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.799 So you couldn't produce it online. You literally had to produce whatever you 162 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:03.639 could by yourself and then you could upload it, but serious limitations. Uh, 163 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:07.919 data time, everything was very limited, so you had to be Yeah, 164 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.799 you had to have your stuff well prepared and be able to know how 165 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:15.360 to upload it properly. So yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say 166 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:20.759 yes. So, you know, we wrote about or I wrote the videos 167 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.519 and Brad directed them and put them together. And I didn't even you know, 168 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:26.279 I had to say I want a star of the videos. He's just 169 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:28.279 like, no, no, this is your videos. You're the star. 170 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:35.600 Okay. So I'm a narrator as well, but they the videos. But 171 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.759 we spread off, you know, we use that as the intro, like 172 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.039 what the hell is this? What are we looking at here? And then 173 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:45.320 we go through the history of it, and then we like say, well 174 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:50.279 would they lie? So then like the question is would they lie? Let 175 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.840 us talk about the back wound, and we talked about all the evidence that 176 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.159 they were lying about the back wound. And since that time, I continued 177 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:05.679 on like occasionally I realized that at the fiftieth anniversary for the warrant report. 178 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:11.279 So that's twenty fourteen, right, No one was going to do what do 179 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:15.000 you think about the single bullet ferry, which is kind of like the whole 180 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.960 you know, centerpiece. So I have I voluntary to do that, and 181 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.840 I got accepted as like, okay, you can do it. So I 182 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:26.759 went to the fiftieth anniversary of the Warren Report conference at Bethesda, Maryland, 183 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.519 and I introduced a whole lot of new information that people didn't realize that just 184 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:35.759 by like you know, trying to create timelines and reading various you know, 185 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:41.720 warrant commissioned internal documents and stuff like that that really like explained a lot and 186 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.840 proved that like our inspector he knew, damn well, it was a back 187 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:50.480 wound, and but he you know, it was written changed in the book 188 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:52.120 they have say neck wound and all this kind of stuff, I mean, 189 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:58.120 the war Report, and so so that got incorporated in the videos anyhow that 190 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.240 like you know, we know they would lie about the head wound because they 191 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:05.879 like about the back wound and so anyhow, so it ends up being an 192 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.840 exploration of pretty much all the medical evidence, and most of it stood up. 193 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:13.240 I still stand by, you know, my exact interpretation of the exact 194 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:18.679 angle of that how that photograph is I changed in a few years after making 195 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.480 the videos, but it's still the basic idea. It's showing the back of 196 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.159 the head primarily, and it's not showing the forehead like the doctors later on 197 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:33.200 try to claim. And it's because you mentioned that notch on the bone, 198 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:37.720 right, So the notch on the bone that's like centered in the photograph. 199 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.080 I initially thought that was on the far back of the head. Now I 200 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:45.919 realized it's more towards the crown of the head. But anyhow, it's it's 201 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.399 still it's not on the forehead. But when the doctors looked at it for 202 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:58.360 the Church committee, I mean the Clark panel and for the agency A panel, 203 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:01.879 they saw that and they said, this be the exit. So this 204 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.039 so they're like, if it's the exit, it can't be on the back 205 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.559 of that. It's going to be on the forehead. So they came up 206 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.039 with there's completely ridiculous. And I have a chapters on my website dealing with 207 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:16.480 this idea that that notch is on the forehead, and that caused so many 208 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:20.759 problems because to have the exit at that forehead, for instance, they hired 209 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.159 a guy from NASA, Thomas Canning, who was supposed to like line up 210 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:30.639 the entrance wounds and exit wounds on the body on JFK and Connolly and show 211 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:35.679 where the bullets would have come from. But of course it's reverse engineered because 212 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:37.799 he's got to prove that. They say he was you know, just uh, 213 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:41.399 what's there's a term for it. You know that he was just lining 214 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.879 things up to see where they went. But he actually was like he was 215 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.600 given the authority to move the wounds. Well, geez, he moved the 216 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:50.559 wounds and everything to make sure that they line up to point back to the 217 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:54.480 sixth floor, you know window. It's it's a total scam, right, 218 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.919 But so this is what we call begging the question, right, And what 219 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:03.759 happens here is fascinating because even as late as two thousand and three, right, 220 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:07.759 Cyril Wect invites Arle Inspector to you know, one of his conferences at 221 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.960 Toukane, and Spector is making the statements about, well, the single bullet 222 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:18.519 theory has now become the single bullet fact and all this his public presentations and 223 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:25.440 discussions of this basically present him as a true believer in the single bullet theory, 224 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:27.399 like, this is what I found. This is what I absolutely believe 225 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:32.320 based on the evidence that I got to see. Now, what's really funny. 226 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:34.279 A couple of things are really funny actually in your videos, which I 227 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:40.080 find extremely comical. In a couple of spots. One of them is Arlen 228 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:45.200 Spector basically acknowledging that he knew some of the stuff that he was saying was 229 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.399 BS when it came to the single bullet theory. For instance, having seen 230 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:55.080 probably you know, one of the Fox copies of a you know, of 231 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:59.080 a back wound, or at least somebody's copy, you know, something like 232 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:03.159 it, seeing a back wound that was in the wrong spot. Gerald Ford 233 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:07.000 moved that. But even showing the photographs of Specter, you know, doing 234 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.319 the demonstration, well, there's little problems with trying to put this in the 235 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.720 back of Kennedy's neck as opposed to his back, right, Uh, there's 236 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:21.880 that issue. But what's even more comical to me is Michael Bodden, Because 237 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.880 Michael Bodden was like the sweetheart of the United States when it came to the 238 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:32.039 forensic pathologists. Right, this guy got an HBO show. He was the 239 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:37.599 main consultant for everybody, everywhere everything. He's still doing it like he's you 240 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.720 know, he's always like with his public mid eighties and he's still like, 241 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.599 you know, being called in whenever there's some sort of controversial killing. Yeah, 242 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:47.759 yeah, right, he's still being called in. Now he's got a 243 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:49.960 partner that does a lot of the public presentations, you know, because he's 244 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.759 a little slowed down, I think. But the reality is this guy ever 245 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:59.920 after had a career. And the funny thing is in one of the rarely 246 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.799 publicized because they didn't show a lot of the HSCA on TV what went on, 247 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.920 but they did show a couple of public hearings. You know, you 248 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:11.880 could watch these things on PBS and whatnot. But during one of those things, 249 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:17.119 guess what happens. Bottom's trying to put a big giant picture on an 250 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:21.359 easel and pat you know, it was one of the first places I ever 251 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:22.960 saw this piece of footage. By the way, I think I discovered it, 252 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.799 to be honest. Yeah, I mean I discovered that he testified with 253 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:30.799 his exhibit upside down. Yeah yeah, with his exhibit upside down. Okay, 254 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.000 so forget about whether the bullet holes in the forehead or the back of 255 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:37.759 the head. This guy can't even orient the photograph in his own presentation correctly. 256 00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:44.160 I mean that is hilarious. I forgot about that. That is comical, 257 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:51.680 you know, ironically, not ironically. I okay, Like you mentioned 258 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:55.000 that you had you asked for my DVD, and I gave it to you 259 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:59.039 because I've had so many people helped me over the years, including there was 260 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:02.039 a filmmaker Nam Sobol. Do you know Mark Sobol? Had all I ever 261 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:03.039 heard of him? Yes? I have heard him? Actually, yeah, 262 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:08.759 okay. He made a fairly good film called The Commission, which was he 263 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:18.119 took the exact transcripts of the Warren Commission of executive sessions and like where they're 264 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:23.400 arguing about like whether Oswald was CIA and stuff like that, and he got 265 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.359 like, you know, a list actors to play the Warren Commission. I 266 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:32.400 mean, it's really impressive of people he got involved, Sam Waterston, Martin 267 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:37.440 Sheen, Martin Landau Corbyn, Bernston, Edward Asner, I mean, really 268 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:42.240 good people. Joe Don Baker anyhow, and and he filmed this movie and 269 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:47.160 he couldn't get anybody to like distribute it for him, and then he kept 270 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:51.039 on thinking about recutting it Anyhow, he went to a Lancer conference and I 271 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:52.720 met him there and he turned out he lived in the Saffron out of Valley 272 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.680 like I did. So we met up and one time I'm over to this 273 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:00.720 house and and he said something like, oh, you know, thanks for 274 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.720 helping me or whatever. Oh, I played JFK's body. He was going 275 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:08.200 to add a scene of the of JFK's corpse, like were the doctors like 276 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.640 showing the back wound. And so I had to lay on my belly like 277 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.960 for like half an hour while he put like a fake back wound on my 278 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.680 back and took all these pictures. So I've if it ever comes forward, 279 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.880 like it will be like, oh there's Pat Sperry's he's the corpse anyhow. 280 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:30.640 Nice But anyhow, so Mark Soble, he turned out he had these DVDs 281 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.680 which he got for He told me about it from somebody in Canada of the 282 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:38.640 HCA hearings because they were televised on PBS. And I'm like, oh my 283 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:41.359 god, I'm like I have I've been looking for these. They're not on 284 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.599 line. I don't know where to get them. And he's like oh, 285 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:45.759 he said like, hey, I'll make you a copy and then he gave 286 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:49.920 me a copy of the of Bond's testimony. And nobody, as far as 287 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:55.079 I know, had ever noticed that Bond testified with a damn exhibit upside down, 288 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.400 And so I put them to the video, you know, and uh 289 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.680 it's and also you had actors, uh you know, portraying different people, 290 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:07.599 and you you were going with the transcripts there. This is actually a really 291 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:11.240 interesting presentation in and of itself. I just want people to know that not 292 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:17.480 only is the information solid, but it's entertaining. Uh. Yeah. The 293 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:22.440 pit with the actors was Brad was you know, it was a you know, 294 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:25.599 he produced movies featuring like, you know, known actors and stuff, 295 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:29.440 so he wanted it to be legit and not have like he put up a 296 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.759 video on YouTube and haven't get pulled off right away. So he want I 297 00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:40.359 showed him the footage or the raw footage or whatever of doctor Hume's testifying to 298 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:45.240 not testify being interviewed by Dan rather where he basically says like, oh the 299 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.920 bat I looked at the photos of the back Woundo's basically at where it is 300 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:51.920 here and he points to the like drawing showing at the base of the neck 301 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:55.119 when it's obviously several inches lower when you look at the autopsy photo. So 302 00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:00.440 Humes was lying. I'd also put together like because Humes gave the ARB a 303 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.960 document that he was sent basically a script of what he was supposed to tell 304 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:06.920 Rather, and in the script basically told him that he was supposed to lie, 305 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.359 you know. So you know, so I we wanted to have that 306 00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:17.559 his interview with Rather in the video. So Brad contacted CBS because he's you 307 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:19.200 know, I would I would be afraid to do that because I would just 308 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:23.119 think they'd laugh at me. And they sent him a video like Okay, 309 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.359 this is what you're looking for, and then they told him it was something 310 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.200 like one hundred dollars per second for two years. And it's like, you 311 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.559 don't put YouTube videos up and then take him down after two years, you 312 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.400 know. So he's like, he's like, we don't want to spend like, 313 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.400 you know, two thousand dollars to have ten twenty seconds of CBS footage. 314 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.920 He's like, you know what, we know what happens, we have 315 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.400 the transcript, let's just reenact it with my friends. So he had some 316 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.359 friends with her comedy team, if I remember right, and they did the 317 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.400 scene. Yeah no, and it worked out perfectly. Look, you can 318 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.359 do a recreation and read off a transcript and that way you don't have to 319 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:03.599 worry about the copyright. It's crazy that they wanted that kind of money for 320 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:11.200 probably the interview from sixty four or it was the sixty sixty seven special. 321 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:14.839 Yeah, okay, so well, but here's one of two things that could 322 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:17.440 have been right. It could have been the sixty four or the sixty seven, 323 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:21.240 because I think Humes was interviewed on both. But the sixty seven one 324 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:26.640 is amazing because that's the one where they prepared everything in advance, and you 325 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.079 know, CBS, we're doing a fortnight investigation. You know, Kronkite was 326 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.519 still involved to we're doing a four night investigation into this ourselves, right, 327 00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:38.279 and they did. They had the whole you know, we're going to actually 328 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.880 try to recreate the shooting. We're going to go over the evidence, and 329 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:47.160 then we're going to tell you the conclusions as we go along, which is 330 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:48.640 a funny thing to trail on. Like, if you ever get a chance, 331 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:52.960 you watch the sixty four special. They did the first hour before the 332 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:56.519 public got the Warrant Commission report you know, the eight hundred and eighty eight 333 00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:00.440 pages, and then the second hour is okay, now it's been released to 334 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.640 the public and we have an advanced copy so we can tell you what's in 335 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:08.680 it, which was kind of funky. But in sixty seven they did four 336 00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:11.920 nights I think in a row. Yeah, four nights, and well you 337 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.400 probably know the whole history, and I get into a little bit of my 338 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:19.039 website. Sure. John McCloy, John McCloy from the WARR Commission was consulted 339 00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:22.000 on it, and he was actually kind of like pulling the strings behind the 340 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:25.640 scenes, like giving all sorts of advice. I'm like, this is what 341 00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:26.480 you need to do here, this is what you need to do there. 342 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:32.880 And later on he tried to lie about it. But the oh, I'm 343 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:34.319 so sorry, I forgot his name. There was a lawyer who worked for 344 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:41.319 them. Do you remember his name? Oh, top of my head, 345 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.440 Yeah, I tell you. He got the documents and he put him online 346 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:49.079 and he then I think he was forced to take his presentation down from online. 347 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:53.119 But I did some screen grabs off of it, and it'sok out that. 348 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.519 When Oliver Stone was preparing for his most recent movie, I got a 349 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.720 call from his producer saying, like some dugenius says that you still have some 350 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:06.640 screen grabs because he died in his documents that he made that he got from 351 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:11.079 CBS are gone. There is no record of them anymore. So it's like, 352 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:12.480 well, thank god I was stupid enough to like, you know, 353 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:15.160 I think I needed them for something, because it turned out I did, 354 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:19.599 because you know, these are these uh messages between John McCloy and and the 355 00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:26.039 CBS producers saying that we needed to uh, you know, we need to 356 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:29.279 show this or show that, and I can't remember what all's involved, but 357 00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.839 it proved his involvement, which they which, which of course, they interviewed 358 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:36.519 him on the CBS special and they acted like he was just like, hey, 359 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:38.039 we got an exclusive here, and he's just gonna tell us what's going 360 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.720 on, rather than the fact that he was orchestrating the whole thing, right 361 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.960 right, And it turned out what was it his daughter worked for CBS or 362 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:53.559 something, Yes, a personal assistant to Richard Solant, the head of CBS 363 00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:59.039 News. There go exactly so you know, just so happens. You know 364 00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:03.039 that we got this happens. Yeah, you know, uh, nothing like 365 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:06.200 that, because they presented it as if they were going, we're going to 366 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.079 do our own investigation. It will be independent of the warrant Commission, you 367 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:12.480 know, the independent investigation. I always loved the way it was laid out 368 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:15.440 too, is uh, you know, the concept of, well, we're 369 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:21.039 going to do an independent inquiry into this, and we have no preconceived notions. 370 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.680 But the first three witnesses were gonna call they all happen to be named 371 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:27.400 Oswald, by the way, you know, and happen to be related to 372 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:33.480 this one particular person of interest. And we're going to form four committees and 373 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.279 three of the four actually in the titles of the committees might have things like 374 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.200 I don't know the name Oswald in them as well. So you know this 375 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.759 is this about Oswald? Or is this about an independent investigation? Hmmm? 376 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.119 You know, nothing like And I'll tell you the Arlen Spector story. It 377 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.599 got even weirder too, uh. And I'm trying to think of this guy's 378 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:59.119 name. You got me stumped here. Normally I know the guy's name that 379 00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:02.319 the lawyer. You were trying to think, I'll figure it out before we're 380 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:06.119 done. Well, I'm actually yeah, I've tried to. I've got it. 381 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:07.440 I'll have it in a second. Yeah. But here's the funny part 382 00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:12.319 about that is, you know, when you take a look at this thing 383 00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:17.839 and you're trying to figure out, okay, where did they begin from? 384 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.759 You know, where is their starting point? Arlen Spector is the junior counselor? 385 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:27.319 Right. I always found it remarkable that nobody bothers to mention that who's 386 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:32.680 the senior counselor. Well, he showed up for like one meeting, went 387 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:34.720 back to New York and never came back pretty much. I think he came 388 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:38.599 back once, dropped off his papers, and disappeared again, which meant that 389 00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:42.720 even though there were supposed to be two counselors in each one of these like 390 00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:48.920 little teams, Spector was on his own and didn't have a senior counselor with 391 00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:53.079 him at the time. Remarkable guy. And I mean Spector is an interesting 392 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:56.519 character to begin with. I mean, who flips and flops back and forth 393 00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:02.240 between the Republican and Democratic Party as often as Arlen Spector does. Right, 394 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.680 It's it's very interesting what happened with that guy. And of course is his 395 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.119 own book is interesting again one of these things. And and like I said, 396 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:17.000 watching him do the presentation in two thousand and three, which which I 397 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:22.720 was there for. It was it was absolutely dumbbounding to watch the guys sit 398 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.559 there and and and do the whole You know, the single bullet theory is 399 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.880 now the single bullet fact. Pat you know, I've seen you know that 400 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.000 that video is released and I watched that. I was just like, this 401 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:36.880 guy is so full of it. And I actually have you know a chapter, 402 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.079 uh what I in my chapter on the single bullet theory on my website, 403 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:48.359 or actually it's the chapter before that called it Examining the Examinations, And 404 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.680 on that chapter, I go through the history of Specter's comments about the single 405 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.440 bullet theory and just show him, I think, anyhow demonstrates the guys it's 406 00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:03.759 a full blown liar. And he actually did an interview it's sixty six where 407 00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:10.240 he said that the back wound was definitely the wound in the back or whatever, 408 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:15.200 the back of the neck wound was definitely higher than the throat wound anatomically, 409 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:22.079 and if it's not, then the autopsy doctors Humes in Boswell should be 410 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:29.680 tried for perjury. He said that. And then in the seventies when the 411 00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:32.920 HSCA takes a look at it and concludes that it's the opposite that the back 412 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:37.440 wound is. Actually you know that the throat the back wound is lower than 413 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:41.839 the throat wound, right or no, I got that's that's yeah, that's 414 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.039 that's what they concluded. The back wound was lower than the throat wound. 415 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.680 Around that same time, Spector shows up to be interviewed by the HCA, 416 00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:53.920 and he's the only member of the Warrant Commission I believe who showed up with 417 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:59.400 a lawyer, though Gerald Ford also Gerald Ford also showed up with the lawyer 418 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.319 who was the actual his lawyer I think was David Bellin. But Specter shows 419 00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.680 up with a lawyer, and this even though his son did you know, 420 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.440 you know, the disciplin of things that I didn't realize until twenty thirteen was 421 00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.920 that Specter had ingratiated. Is that the word that whatever? He got his 422 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:22.960 son as an assistant on the HCA, so he knew he knew ahead the 423 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:25.880 whole time what was going to be examined and all that kind of stuff, 424 00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:30.880 because so he had he had an inside source on the HSCA to let him 425 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.359 get him get a heads up, so he knew what he might be challenged 426 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:38.880 with because his son, I did not know his son was part of the 427 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:45.440 HSCA stack yep that is next to me. And okay, so Roger Fineman 428 00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:49.960 was that's it, yes to his you know, it damaged his career. 429 00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:53.680 But he got those documents and he made them public and you know, he 430 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:56.599 tried to like make people notice. But I don't think any of the other 431 00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:00.720 networks, I mean there that would have been a chance for and or some 432 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.000 of the other networks to really like nail CBS, and I don't think any 433 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.519 of them were interested. They were just like, uh, you know, 434 00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:11.200 we recognize the right of all networks to lie. So so they see there's 435 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:15.279 one of two answers to that. Because somebody would say, well, why 436 00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:19.039 wouldn't because this is one of the challenges you'll get sometimes from you know, 437 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:26.240 let's just say the single bullet or loan assassin theorists. They will tell you 438 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:29.119 that, well, look, you know, if that was true, then 439 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:33.839 why wouldn't you know, the competing group turn around and expose them for it 440 00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:37.200 because it would be to their advantage. You know, they say this kind 441 00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:41.720 of thing all the time, Like the FBI and the CIA compete with each 442 00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:45.440 other. If the FBI knew the CIA was lying, they would expose them 443 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.200 because it would make them look bad. And you know, but they do 444 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:52.000 this with corporate stuff as well as government agencies, and it cracks me up. 445 00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:56.720 Look, CBS, NBCABC, if you take a look at what it 446 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:01.960 is they've done over the years, the entire higher history of the media presentations, 447 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:07.119 and I do mean starting with day one. You know why you never 448 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.960 see the as it happened? You know, like replays of ABC? Like 449 00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.599 you ever noticed that NBC and CBS are the ones that their film has always 450 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:20.640 shown the kron Kite film has always shown the explanation about how you know, 451 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:23.359 they didn't have the camera warmed up, which is why Kronkite's talking behind a 452 00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:28.599 CBS logo. You get all that stuff on the History Channel and everywhere, 453 00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:36.079 right You ever noticed that ABC has never shown pat You ever noticed that they 454 00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:38.599 didn't have a strong a national presence back then, and so I think that 455 00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.759 was part of it, but well that could be. That could be one 456 00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:47.920 benign explanation. But another good explanation is if you take a listen to the 457 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:55.240 audio of it, they are the absolute worst, most poorly informed of any 458 00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:00.920 of the networks. They literally have a dead Secret Service agent in Deally Placid. 459 00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:05.359 They you know, I mean, and I don't mean they just kind 460 00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.440 of mentioned that maybe somebody was shot. I mean, they have all kinds 461 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.839 of stuff wrong. Kennedy was standing up in the limo at the time he 462 00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.960 was shot. It is amazing, Actually chapter one on my website, I 463 00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:22.000 go through a lot of the initial news stories and even Cronkite was saying shit 464 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:28.880 like that, Yeah, it's okay, it's okay. We don't do AM 465 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:31.319 and FM anymore, so it's all right. But here's the thing. No, 466 00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:37.720 Kronkite was bad, but I'm telling you that ABC was fast and furious. 467 00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:40.640 It's embarrassing how bad they were. Okay, that's one thing. The 468 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:45.680 next thing is this, if you are CBS and you want to call out 469 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:51.039 NBC or your ABC, you want to call out a CBS whatever, here's 470 00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:57.599 the problem. You have mutually a short destruction here because they have all participated 471 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:02.000 in what first of all, miss forming the American public live as the news 472 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:07.480 went live. But secondly, forget about that. Let's just say that's symptomatic 473 00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:10.599 of the chaos of the situation of the fact that you know, at the 474 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:15.559 time, there wasn't cameras you know, all along the motor cade route, 475 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.639 so they didn't have you know, professional recording of what actually happened, et 476 00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:22.719 cetera. Although I still have my questions about what cameras were running when during 477 00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:29.000 the last two days documentary stuff, But anyway, that's another question for another 478 00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:35.400 day. When when they do not have the ability to cover all these things 479 00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:39.599 blah blah, all right, but what they did ever after is absolutely adhere 480 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:45.239 to the official narrative. They have done nothing but all of them profit in 481 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:52.320 one way or another from continuously supporting the Warren Commission from the moments before its 482 00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:55.840 release to its release to the American public. They have done nothing but back 483 00:34:55.880 --> 00:35:00.000 up the Warren Commission. Even with the minor chain that were made by the 484 00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:07.599 HSCA. They have stuck to the warrenant Commission's official narrative since before it was 485 00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:10.840 issued. They were issuing things about it while it was still in progress. 486 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.000 They're the ones who showed, you know, you see that footage of say 487 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:17.280 like Alan Dulles, you know, standing outside of the book depository right with 488 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:22.199 his pipe. All these kind of things they were in place and endorsing the 489 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:28.280 official narrative and the official lie from day one, they've done nothing but back 490 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:31.519 it up. Even when something comes up that might be ludicrous, they will 491 00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:36.880 occasionally discuss the ludicrous thing and then say, look, it's ludicrous. And 492 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.840 at the end of all their you know, consternations, whether it's Ted Copple, 493 00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:44.599 or it's Dan rather Still, or it's the new guys over wherever, 494 00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:50.199 whenever, they have stuck to the story Oh yeah, well then yeah, 495 00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:55.159 it's yeah, the one that they were in bed. Because nobody wanted to 496 00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:58.719 be scooped, right, They all wanted to get to They all wanted to 497 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:04.039 publish, wanted to tell their listeners and readers, hey, we got the 498 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:10.440 Warrant Commission report and here it is, and so like they they were giving 499 00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:15.480 it ahead of time and then they you know, they read and they just 500 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.880 reported them what the report said, and they didn't you know, it was 501 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:23.599 another two months before they released the supporting documents. And the supporting documents. 502 00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:29.920 That's where the conspiracy researchers started going like what, because you know, there 503 00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:36.039 was all sorts of like witnesses and stuff who you know, like people who 504 00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:38.440 thought there was shots from the Grassy Knoll and stuff like that that weren't really 505 00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:42.679 mentioned in the war and report. And so then after that, the conspiracy 506 00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:47.000 research community, if you will, will took off, you know, when 507 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:51.440 they realized how much was being left out and how the media had just played 508 00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:55.039 along whatever the government was going to tell them, and it's it's sad. 509 00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:59.280 In uh, you know, there's been times there's been breaks in the in 510 00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:05.400 the in the damn every now and then or whatever, like you know, 511 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:08.760 in the sixty six Life magazine interviewed Connolly, and Conley said he didn't think 512 00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:13.960 that the single military was true. In Life magazine called for a new investigation. 513 00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:15.800 People kind of forget, and the New York Times around the same time 514 00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:21.000 called for a new investigation, saying there's a lot of questions about what happened, 515 00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:22.880 and so, you know, every now and then these things pop up. 516 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:25.920 And then in the seventies, after it came out that you know, 517 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:31.400 the CIA was performing assassinations, you know, some of the major media once 518 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:35.280 again got behind it and said like, hey, let's take a closer look 519 00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:37.679 at this. But yeah, in general, they defend the Warren Commission, 520 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:43.599 and even when they look at the possibility there was, you know, it 521 00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:46.760 was a conspiracy. They still adamantly hold on to this idea that it must 522 00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:51.000 have been Oswald must have been, you know, a shooter. He must 523 00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:52.880 have been a part of it. Well, it has to be. And 524 00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:57.880 here's the funny thing is every time there is look, they can call for 525 00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:01.440 new investigations when nothing's happening, but when something does happen, like, for 526 00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:07.400 instance, the Garrison investigation. Okay, not only do you have NBC turning 527 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.599 around with that white paper you know where they got convicts on there trying to 528 00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:15.039 say that, you know, they were being bribed in order to you know, 529 00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:17.320 testify against Clay Showing. Now they told me to go rob the house. 530 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:22.280 There's literally a guy on there doing this, you know. I just 531 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:27.840 posted it on my Rumble channel. Actually the NBC special that they ran with 532 00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:30.480 the turn coat on the bottom of it because NBC doesn't want to legitimately release 533 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:35.159 it. But yeah, you know, they gave Garrison they get I don't 534 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:37.360 know how he did it. I guess he went to a court. They 535 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:39.239 had to give Garrison a response, so he actually got it. I think 536 00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:45.400 it was a full hour on NBC to respond to their slander. Basically, 537 00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.159 yeah he did, like late at night in black and white and yeah, 538 00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:52.519 it's just him sitting on a desk. I posted that as well his response. 539 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:57.360 But they did a whole produced special where they went and found people and 540 00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:01.800 said, this person's lying. We got statements from Perry Russo he's a liar. 541 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:06.719 This one's a liar. They were trying to fabricate evidence, I mean 542 00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:09.639 all over the place. And yeah, under the fairness doctrine which still existed, 543 00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:15.199 he had a legal right to demand equal time, so he did and 544 00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:19.400 he got it. But the thing is is that the entire media started to 545 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.360 react. You see, look, why was it that CBS decided to do 546 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:29.960 it reinvestigation in nineteen sixty seven because Garrison's case was starting to happen. See, 547 00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:32.679 before he took Shaw to court, there was an investigation going on and 548 00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:37.719 it was starting to make headlines. So every time there needs to be a 549 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:43.199 new defense of the Warren Commission, media assets are deployed. I mean you 550 00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:46.039 can time it. It's perfect. You know, when they were getting ready 551 00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:51.280 for Oliver Stones movie to hit, what did they do. They deployed people 552 00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:54.880 like Posner, They deployed you know, new specials knew, let's get ready 553 00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:59.960 for the thirtieth anniversary. They actually, I think, in my opinion, 554 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.159 and is this because I came into it around the twenty fifth anniversary. This 555 00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:07.639 is when I got really interested in it. Is every time there is something 556 00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:15.920 of significance that occurs that could legitimately challenge the case, brand new media products 557 00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:20.639 are created, books, TV specials, radio shows, et cetera, in 558 00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:24.559 order to do what, to run people around to satisfy their interest, and 559 00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:29.320 then to answer it with what, Well, at the end of the day, 560 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:34.280 it's probably still just Oswald. And even the History Channel did it with 561 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:38.559 what a former CIA or FBI director who goes, well, maybe the Russia 562 00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:43.760 thing was possible, you know, Oswald might have been a Russian agent now 563 00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:46.719 according to this you know, pursuing Oswald or whatever they call it on the 564 00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:51.760 History Channel. But either way, they deploy this stuff through the you know, 565 00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:55.400 the Discovery networks, the media, the what do you call it, 566 00:40:55.400 --> 00:41:00.679 the network, the regular standard dinosaur media network, you know, the soup 567 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:04.559 they do that. CNN does it. Tom Hanks gets involved in it, 568 00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:07.599 well, Vince Bugliosi, you name it, man, it happens every single 569 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:13.159 time. I'm sorry, Pat well, I was just gonna mention like in 570 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:17.719 this case, I smelled that something like that was going to happen leading up 571 00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:23.039 to the fiftieth anniversary of the assassination, and so I actually started tried to 572 00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:27.320 watch everything and whenever I was in the store, I'd look around for what 573 00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.280 books were on the rack, et cetera. And so I created a blog 574 00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:35.719 which has been actually cited in a number of textbooks. Now it's on my 575 00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:39.599 website where it's The Onslaught and then it got so extensive. It's The Onslaught 576 00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:45.320 Part two, where I go through like the inundation of Oswald did It stuff 577 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:51.679 leading up to the fiftieth anniversary and shortly after that material It was because for 578 00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:53.519 years, you know, you look back and you see a lot of people 579 00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:57.920 complaining, Oh, the reason why people believe there's a conspiracy because they've been 580 00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:01.239 inundated with all this conspiracy stuff. This is what David Bellen and people like 581 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.639 that used to complain all the time to the Meat about the media, you 582 00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:08.599 know, and all over Stone and all this stuff. And so for the 583 00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:14.199 fiftieth anniversary, it was more than two to one Oswald did It stuff, 584 00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:17.880 you know, and I documented it you know, by saying like this show 585 00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:22.079 comes on and I say, why why it shows a bias whatever. Some 586 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:24.760 of the shows didn't really show a bias. Some of them were about, 587 00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:30.039 like, you know, just about how Walter Cronkite reported that day or whatever. 588 00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:34.000 But then a lot of them were they'd throw in there like you know 589 00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:39.679 about you know Oswald's smirk, look at Oswald's smirk while he walks into the 590 00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:44.920 garage or whatever. Stuff like that. Were they just clearly like trying to 591 00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:47.360 make you hate this guy. And there's just an awful lot of that. 592 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:52.280 So yeah, so anybody really interested in reading the I didn't do it for 593 00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:58.239 the sixtieth Maybe I should have, but there wasn't nearly as much stuff, 594 00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:02.159 you know, But they're also from what I gathered, the bias would the 595 00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:05.880 bias was not nearly as bad, and there was quite a lot of conspiracy 596 00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:07.519 stuff that made it through this time. Well, you know, yes and 597 00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:13.199 no, because what happened is you have a different media landscape now. Okay, 598 00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:17.880 people are not as reliant on the broadcast television or the cable delivered television 599 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:22.360 as they once were. So what you ended up with was every streaming service 600 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:30.199 had their version of the JFK interest one way or another. Right, Showtime 601 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:37.239 carried Oliver Stone's you know a documentary what is it Disney or Discovery or whatever 602 00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:42.480 They came up with one three Days in America, as Disney did that one, 603 00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:45.400 and Discovery might be part of Disney. It's kind of hard to keep 604 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:49.000 track of who bought who, But Paramount did what did the you know, 605 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.480 what did the Parkland doctors see? So now we're on to the medical students 606 00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:55.119 as opposed to the doctors who have mostly passed away. You know, what 607 00:43:55.199 --> 00:44:00.000 did they actually see in Parkland as opposed to what was seen in Bethesda? 608 00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:04.679 You know, and and all of that going on, and even Amazon Prime 609 00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:07.639 put out what I called, you know, part of the ridiculous, the 610 00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:15.360 mythological area of stuff where you know, JFK's death was actually faked and so 611 00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:17.280 on and so forth, you know, the ludicrous end of the pool. 612 00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:22.280 Now sometimes I think they deployed the ludicrous stuff and prop it up because you 613 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:25.199 know, much like what was it? The Fox Business Channel picked up on 614 00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:30.239 the You and I talked about the Hickey thing, the accidental shooting by the 615 00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:34.920 Secret Service agent, right, we talked about that, which the book Mortal 616 00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:39.880 Error was sued in court pretty heavily, the authors and all that by Hickey 617 00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:45.559 himself, who was accused of basically being the accidental shooter of JFK. And 618 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:51.599 he won that lawsuit. That book, you know, was was successfully sued, 619 00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:54.920 right, I mean Hickey won his case. Yeah, for good reason, 620 00:44:55.079 --> 00:45:00.840 is it? But you know, I try to I've learned as from 621 00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:10.039 reading flawed books and also from reading Oswald did it books. You know, 622 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:15.119 you can learn a lot from reading the Warren Report. You just have to 623 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:19.079 accept that, like, you know, a certain percentage of it's just wrong, 624 00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:22.360 you know, but you can learn a lot from it. But I 625 00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:25.079 learned a lot, you know. When I first started researching, I spent 626 00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:30.320 a lot of time reading like John mccadams, the former historian from he had 627 00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:32.880 a website on the John F. Kennedy assassination, which was the number one 628 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:37.760 website for several years. Anyhow, Yes, but I would read because he 629 00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:39.920 would say, like, you know, why we think and you fill in 630 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:43.679 the blank, why we think Hickey didn't actually do it or whatever. And 631 00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:45.679 you can learn a lot because a lot of those articles were actually written by 632 00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:51.519 conspiracy theorists or were just trying to shut up the noise because there's just so 633 00:45:51.639 --> 00:45:53.800 much noise about this being fake, that being fake, this person's a liar, 634 00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:58.800 this guy's a criminal, you know. You know, Harry Livingstone, 635 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:01.960 I didn't get to meet him, but when I was first starting becoming a 636 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:07.800 researcher, I you know, I went to Dallas and I talked to Groden 637 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:13.679 on the knowle you know, and through various forums, I got to meet 638 00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:15.039 Deavid, you know, got to know David Lyfton and eventually met him in 639 00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:20.239 person. And the one thing that David Lifted and Robert Groden had in common 640 00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:23.519 was that they both said that Harry Leving's son was a nutbag. You know. 641 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:28.239 They were just sorry, Harry, oh he's not with us anymore, 642 00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:31.559 but they were just like that guy, you know, he's not well. 643 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:36.920 And sure enough, he ended up writing like what five or six books on 644 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:40.320 the Kennedy assassination, and like half of the books are filled with about like 645 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:45.039 diatribes against other researchers and about how he thinks that they're secretly working with the 646 00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:49.079 government or whatever, and it's just like, oh Jesus, well, yeah, 647 00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:52.760 I know, and look, you didn't know this, but you're you're 648 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:59.199 talking to somebody who actually attempted to work with Harry a bit. And uh, 649 00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:02.760 yeah, you know when when he needed help promoting events and getting press 650 00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:07.920 conferences together in New York. Uh, guess what, I happened to be 651 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:12.559 a musician in the New York, New Jersey area. So if you notice 652 00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:16.400 that there's some music oriented press that showed up at some of those press conferences 653 00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:23.400 that he held, there's a reason why. And Harry was certifiable at a 654 00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:29.320 certain point. I mean he I thought he was on the right side. 655 00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:31.000 I thought his heart was in the right place. I really did. But 656 00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:36.079 I was a young man back then, and uh, just barely out of 657 00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:42.559 high school, and quite frankly, I vaguely told this story in one of 658 00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:45.119 these days, I'm gonna have to go and get the tape from New Jersey. 659 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.840 I've still got it in storage. But Harry called me up in the 660 00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:55.079 middle of the night, ranting and raving in a drunken rage, threatening me, 661 00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:01.480 you know in common Yeah, oh, he threatened you too. You 662 00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:06.960 know well, David Lifton called me up and wanted to tell me some of 663 00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:12.039 his most recent theories. Yes, and I was kind of like, that's 664 00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:14.800 kind of wild David. I was. I was being supportive because I was, 665 00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:16.880 you know, glad he was just sharing information, right, But then 666 00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:21.480 he just took this turn where I thought he was joking at first, but 667 00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:23.480 then I realized he was at least pretending to be at least thinking he was 668 00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:27.880 serious, or he threatened to kill me and my family if I told anybody 669 00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:31.400 his theories. I'm like, dude, you've been sitting on a book for 670 00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:36.239 like forty years. You know, if I tell somebody your theories, it's 671 00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:37.159 not going to like cut into the book sales, Like, oh, pat 672 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:39.440 Spirit told me his theory was this, Therefore I'm not going to buy the 673 00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:43.039 book or whatever. But he was evident, like, don't tell anybody I 674 00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:47.280 told you this. But you know, and that's kind of a weird feeling 675 00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:53.000 when you realize that somebody is that serious. That Harry got Harry got paranoid 676 00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:57.400 is what happened after a little while. And you know, I was also 677 00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:01.480 helpful to him in that I put him in touch with some legitimate let's just 678 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:08.079 call them Italian businessman, you know, and I'm using the word legitimate ironically, 679 00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:12.599 but I put him in touch with some of the real guys let's just 680 00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:17.159 put it that way, right, And his whole thing was somehow he felt 681 00:49:17.239 --> 00:49:22.599 threatened by me at some point and was trying to tell me that people in 682 00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:27.239 the CIA were protecting him. And as much as I knew killers, he 683 00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:30.559 knew killers too, and he could have me done away with. And I 684 00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:35.559 don't even know what I actually to this day. I still have the tape. 685 00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:38.400 It's on a cassette tape from an answering machine, but and it was 686 00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:43.199 a long mess, like twenty minutes at least of this guy yelling at my 687 00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:47.519 answering machine while I wasn't home, and it's it's pretty funny. It's really 688 00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:51.480 one of these days, I might play it. Harry's dead now. David 689 00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:53.920 Lifton's dead too, but you know, Harry's dead now, and he had 690 00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:59.239 his history and his problems with people and whatever. But I might actually get 691 00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:01.159 it and put it on a podcast one day, just to have people hear 692 00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:05.280 what it was like to deal with them, because there was a couple of 693 00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:08.039 incidents like this, But I saved the one tape because it was like twenty 694 00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:15.119 five minutes of like just straight yelling and screaming and all kinds of like things 695 00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:20.960 that nonsensical, Like clearly he was drunk, you know, on the tape. 696 00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:23.280 But anyway, uh yeah, one of these days I think I'll just 697 00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.639 I'll get a hold of that tape and put it out as a podcast. 698 00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:29.920 Just here you go, this is Harry Livingstone in nineteen ninety or whatever. 699 00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:34.679 Sure, but what it's a lesson that you know, it could be used 700 00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:37.840 as a lesson because we don't want to become that guy. And two, 701 00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:44.480 we have to realize what we're reading books and articles by researchers that some of 702 00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:46.960 them are, you know, hire their own supply. They've got a theory 703 00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:51.400 and they're just going to twist everything into their theory and make everybody their enemy. 704 00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:54.360 And you just have to understand that. It's like, you know, 705 00:50:54.480 --> 00:51:00.840 it's human nature. We're not really like truth truth finding machines or truth telling 706 00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:05.920 machines. No, it's true. Look yeah, yeah, And you have 707 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:09.840 to understand that not everybody who gets obsessed with a murder for you know, 708 00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:15.320 decades at a time is always going to be the most stable or rational individual, 709 00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:20.519 you know. And that's the thing. Look, we can study something, 710 00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:22.960 and we can invest our time, and indeed we do, we wind 711 00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:29.320 up investing time, money, effort into just learning about you know, really 712 00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:35.559 a moment in history essentially and what came of it. And it is an 713 00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:39.320 obsessive thing to do. So there there there is something in that nature that's 714 00:51:39.400 --> 00:51:50.239 not going to always attract the most rational or sound, sound reasoning individual, 715 00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:52.760 you know what I mean. And that's something you just have to admit sometimes. 716 00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:55.800 And I'm not saying everybody's crazy who does this or anything. I'm just 717 00:51:55.880 --> 00:52:00.679 saying because obviously what I'm gonna call myself, I'm gonna call pat right now. 718 00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:05.800 No, what I'm saying is that not always do you have the most 719 00:52:06.199 --> 00:52:10.480 rational and sensible people. Now. The funny thing is we learn again through 720 00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:15.400 media reactions and everything else. I always find it interesting the stuff that was 721 00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:21.440 you know, unearthed because of the research community that has ever after been seized 722 00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:24.960 upon by other people, you know, like the concept of people calling people 723 00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:30.800 conspiracy theorists. To begin with, Initially, there were these people that they 724 00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:35.679 called Warren Commission critics, you know, and they were criticizing the Warren Commission. 725 00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:38.320 Sorry, go ahead, that they called them critics or buffs, Oh 726 00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:43.559 yeah, assassination buffs or Warren Commission critics. If you were more serious. 727 00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:45.639 I think you were a Warren Commission critic. But if you were somebody who 728 00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:49.400 just sort of followed the books in the media, maybe you were an assassination 729 00:52:49.639 --> 00:52:54.440 buff right. David Lifton mentioned this that, you know, he called it 730 00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:59.159 buffed them at one point or something, I think. But the thing is 731 00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:05.840 that, yeah, indeed, they transformed that into call them conspiracy theorists because 732 00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:08.599 it's more nefarious. And to tell you the truth, today they even use 733 00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:14.800 the word conspiracist, which to my mind is a word that means someone who 734 00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:19.159 participated in the conspiracy. Yeah, that's right. I think you're right about 735 00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:22.360 that, you know, But but oddly they apply that word to people like 736 00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:27.719 you and me. They would call us conspiracists because we're on the side of 737 00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:31.239 where we're advocates for conspiracy, and they call us conspiracists. And I say 738 00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:35.760 to myself, that makes no sense. But you know, this is how 739 00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:39.599 we adjust the language, the nomenclature. Will you know, go ahead and 740 00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:46.559 be adjusted and be revised as needed, I guess so. Anyway, Pat, 741 00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:50.199 I know this, Yeah, good, all right. I was going 742 00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:54.599 to say about the use of the words and stuff, and I've seen a 743 00:53:54.679 --> 00:54:00.639 problem in the research community. It used to be that that some of the 744 00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:04.440 top researchers would devote some of their energy. You told me that you did 745 00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:10.480 a series of shows basically debunking some stuff. Now I find like if I 746 00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:15.039 online say well, I think that you know, the driver didn't shoot him 747 00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:17.920 or whatever, people will say, oh, you're defending the War Commission or 748 00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:22.519 whatever. It's like, No, the way to defend the research community is 749 00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:31.119 by like cutting off some of this unnecessary conjecture that's just not only unnecessary, 750 00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:36.599 it's just like wild and a lot of times it's completely wrong and obviously wrong. 751 00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:40.920 You know, William Greer did not shoot President Kennedy. There I said 752 00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:45.840 it, Okay, I'll get an email tonight threatening my life or something because 753 00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:51.559 I said that. Could they But some people it's it's it's everything is everything 754 00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:54.639 is fake, and they're all in a and if you say no, then 755 00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:58.760 you're like one of the bad guys. And it's gotten really that paranoid. 756 00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:01.960 And I think that there needs to be I think we talked about this before 757 00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:08.280 the show. There needs to be like guidelines, particularly for like members of 758 00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:14.320 the media who are somewhat interested in the Kennedy assassination that no, you know, 759 00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:16.079 No, Cyril Weck does not believe the driver did it. No. 760 00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:22.000 You know, Jim Dougenio does not believe that. I don't know Jim. 761 00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:25.440 Jim believes a lot of stuff, but something he doesn't believe. You know. 762 00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:30.719 Let's say James Files, you know public, So put together like a 763 00:55:30.760 --> 00:55:35.199 list of like the top the you know, published authors, top people who 764 00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:38.320 have podcasts, and just say like this is you know, these are things 765 00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:42.599 that we're not we don't want to be associated with because, yeah, we 766 00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:46.599 get when they use the word conspiracy theorists, we get associated with moon landing 767 00:55:46.679 --> 00:55:51.360 is fake stuff, you know, And because you know Jack White, I 768 00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:53.280 was actually friendly with Jack White. You know, Jack White was was was 769 00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:58.239 encouraged a lot of young researchers when he was on the education for him. 770 00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:01.039 But I want to be associated with that. And like, you know, 771 00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:05.679 there was a point that Tosh Plumbly is somebody some people would not want to 772 00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:08.840 be associated with because he had some ideas that people didn't really believe. But 773 00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:13.559 Tosh Plumley left the education for him because there were so many people on it 774 00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:17.800 saying that you know, nobody died at the Pentagon during nine to eleven or 775 00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:20.960 whatever, and he's like, ullo, I knew people that were there. 776 00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:24.159 What are you talking about? You know? And uh so, yeah, 777 00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:30.559 there's people. Just you have to in order to have your beliefs have any 778 00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:34.239 weight, you have to be able to say you won't believe anything. You 779 00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:37.360 believe every you know, anything you're told. If you believe everything you're told 780 00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:40.639 or everything you read in the book, then what you do believe isn't going 781 00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:44.320 to have much credibility. And that's the sad fact, you know. Well, 782 00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:47.840 see, that's the thing is that it undermines every piece of legitimate work 783 00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:54.840 when this other nonsense is acceptable. It literally does because it allows opponents to 784 00:56:54.880 --> 00:57:00.079 group it together. Right, So how do you best defeat an opponent? 785 00:57:00.199 --> 00:57:05.440 You undermine their argument. And you can easily undermine their argument if you say 786 00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:08.239 that, look, take a look at all of the methodology that comes around 787 00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:13.079 them and surrounds them, all these other thoughts they believe. You know, 788 00:57:13.480 --> 00:57:16.960 birds are not real. You know what I'm saying. This other weird thing 789 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:22.800 of JFK actually faked his death. He came back as Jimmy Carter. Have 790 00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:27.440 you seen that theory? By the way, No, Okay, So JFK 791 00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:30.840 was actually Jimmy Carter. Look, the pictures look a little similar. I 792 00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.719 have seen that the autopsy photos are actually of Tippit It. Yeah, the 793 00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:38.360 autopsy photos are of Tippet. I had to deal with that on the anniversary 794 00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:45.440 this year, actually on a radio show the long time ago. It should 795 00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:49.039 have, but the host was obsessing on it, saying that, you know, 796 00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:52.320 I really think that they yeah, they substituted, you know. And 797 00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:57.199 I'm like, well, look are you telling me that they took the bullets 798 00:57:57.239 --> 00:58:01.079 that were supposedly in Tippit adam him in order to create the JFK. But 799 00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:06.480 well, they said he looked like JFK. His nickname was JFK. JD. 800 00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:10.440 Tippett was a body double for Oh my god. You know it hurts 801 00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:14.360 my head. And I kept saying, look, you got no evidence to 802 00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:17.440 back that. Okay, it's just that simple. Like I said, Jimmy 803 00:58:17.480 --> 00:58:21.960 Carter is actually JFK. He faked his death. He came back and he 804 00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:27.920 was Jimmy Carter, no kidding. You know, George Bush was in dally 805 00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:30.199 Plaza. Look, George W. Bush was in Daley Plaza too. He 806 00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:34.159 has no rhyme or reason to be there in any way shape or form, 807 00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:36.760 no matter what nefarious label you want to put on him. And by the 808 00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:38.800 way, I do think the Bush family's a crime syndicate. But I can't 809 00:58:38.800 --> 00:58:43.119 hang the murder of JFK on him. Okay, I can't put him in 810 00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:46.400 Daly plaza. I'm sorry, I can't. No, the limo driver didn't 811 00:58:46.400 --> 00:58:51.320 shoot him. I don't care how blurry your's the bruder film is. It 812 00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:54.840 just didn't happen that way. And even if you tried to say legitimately, 813 00:58:54.920 --> 00:59:00.920 think about it logistically and just sensibly for a moment, like any he's gonna 814 00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:06.639 turn around and blow the President's face off over top of the connollies like that, 815 00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:09.599 shooting like you know, under his arm? Does any I mean, 816 00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:13.880 has anybody handled a firearms? Not a good plot. It's not a good 817 00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:17.199 plot for assassination. No, it's really not. Like Look the whole thing 818 00:59:17.239 --> 00:59:22.880 with the Secret Service agent accidentally shooting him in the head. I actually find 819 00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:25.719 that to be a more viable possibility than a whole lot of this other crap, 820 00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:30.199 because at least it would make some sort of sense. You well, 821 00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:34.800 exactly, I have, you know, chapters on the head wounds and the 822 00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:39.119 womb ballistics and stuff, and it's Donahue, the guy who first came up 823 00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:43.000 with a Hickey did it theory. He was not a faker, he was 824 00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:45.920 he was I think he was a serious guy, and a lot of what 825 00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:50.840 he said was true. That the head wound, as described by the warn 826 00:59:51.400 --> 00:59:54.239 in the warm report, and it's described to the autopsy report, does not 827 00:59:54.360 --> 01:00:00.840 reflect a Manicer carcando bullet entering low on the head and exiting from the top 828 01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:04.000 of the head. In fact, we were talking about, like, you 829 01:00:04.039 --> 01:00:07.000 know, probably of all the work I've done, what I'm most proud of 830 01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:12.840 is probably chapter thirteen B, in chapter fourteen I'm screwing it up. Chapter 831 01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:19.320 sixteen B in sixteen C on my website, which deals with the history of 832 01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:24.519 Woon ballistics and the nature of Kennedy's brain. A lot of people think the 833 01:00:24.519 --> 01:00:28.119 brain was replaced. Well, if they did, they did a really bad 834 01:00:28.159 --> 01:00:30.719 job doing it, because the brain, as examined by the doctors does not 835 01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:37.719 reflect a wound of a manager carcandle bullet being fired in you know, entering 836 01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:39.320 low and exiting high, and that's not what they found when they looked at 837 01:00:39.320 --> 01:00:45.639 the brain. So anyhow, but chapter sixteen B, which some of your 838 01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:49.960 hopefully a lot of your listeners will be interested looking at I actually found a 839 01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:59.280 Romanian book written in French that this Romanian book was the first book on the 840 01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:04.760 woon ballistic of the Manlark Carcano rifle from the eighteen ninety five or whatever year 841 01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:07.840 the book was written. And they have photographs of cadavers in there, and 842 01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:12.159 I have them on my website fired at like you know, fifty yards, 843 01:01:12.199 --> 01:01:16.400 one hundred yards or whatever. They at comparable distances to Kennedy and it's just 844 01:01:16.440 --> 01:01:21.760 a small exit hole. This idea that the bullet's going so fast it blows 845 01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:24.559 the top of the head off into the air, that's just made up by 846 01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:30.480 Olivier and then Sturdivan wrote a book. These guys from Averade Improving Ground just 847 01:01:30.519 --> 01:01:35.559 basically bullshitted because they saw that with some of the experimental rifles they've been working 848 01:01:35.599 --> 01:01:38.880 with. But that's not how the Manacar carcano rolled. That wasn't that's not 849 01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:44.760 Their bullets didn't do that unless they hit at its very shallow angle in a 850 01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:46.440 tangential wound. And I actually have a picture of a tangential wound that I 851 01:01:46.519 --> 01:01:52.199 found and show how it's probably attached so that the giant head wound on Kennedy 852 01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:59.000 is it's not an exit for a bullet that entered elsewhere. It's a separate 853 01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:02.159 wound entered an exit, and that's totally documented by all you know, I 854 01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:08.800 probably I don't like footnotes. I'd rather just mention where I got it in 855 01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:15.639 the article while I'm writing, Like because one, I've seen a lot of 856 01:02:15.639 --> 01:02:22.320 well, having a chapter on my website where I review Biliosi's book his not 857 01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:27.519 his I don't review the whole book, but I review his version of the 858 01:02:27.559 --> 01:02:30.719 shooting, and he just totally cherry picked information. And a lot of times 859 01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:34.920 his footnotes didn't say what you know, didn't say what he said. They 860 01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:37.320 did. He say like, oh she said this, and then he has 861 01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:39.039 a footnote, and so people just assume that's what they said in the footnote. 862 01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:44.920 You read the footnote, you read what's you know, the actual testimony, 863 01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:46.559 and they didn't say that at all. So a lot of people use 864 01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:51.840 footnotes to lie. So I'd rather just tell you in the paragraph where I 865 01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:57.199 got some information anyhow. But I mentioned, you know, all these textbooks 866 01:02:57.239 --> 01:03:04.760 in books and articles about h you know, wound ballistics, and it's just 867 01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:08.960 not a typical head wound. And the only kind of way it makes sense 868 01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:14.440 is if it's it's a separate tangential wound. Right, And doctor Clark, 869 01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:19.159 you know, the examined the neurosearch and who examined Kennedy at Parkland, that's 870 01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:22.320 what he said. He'd even set it his work commission testimony that it looked 871 01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:24.400 like a tangential wound. So I'm like, well, what are the odds 872 01:03:24.440 --> 01:03:28.039 of that that all this, you know, looking through all these books and 873 01:03:28.119 --> 01:03:30.199 all these articles, it looks like a tangent. It seems like it's a 874 01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:34.440 tangential wound. And sure enough, that's what doctor Clark's initial impression was. 875 01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:40.719 And I went through like every level, the scalp, skull, the lightning 876 01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:45.840 of the brain, the brain itself, all these things indicate that that large 877 01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:50.679 head wound was impacted as a supposed exit. And yeah, I just thought 878 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:53.360 i'd throw that in there in case anybody was thinking like I hadn't done any 879 01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:58.960 research since the Mystery of thirty five. That's all stuff I did afterwards. 880 01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:01.000 Oh yeah, no, Look, and there's a ton of work here on 881 01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:05.400 on patsphere dot com. Uh and that is spelled p A T S P 882 01:04:05.719 --> 01:04:10.320 E e r dot com. Uh, and I'll give you a link to 883 01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:13.679 the uh you know, to the show in the show notes here to go 884 01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:16.039 to his website and examine this work for yourself. It is one thing. 885 01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:19.199 And I'll close on this because I've had you for about an hour here already 886 01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:23.960 recording and uh, it went right gone by. I didn't even get to 887 01:04:23.960 --> 01:04:27.519 most of what I wanted to get to. But you know, we do 888 01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:30.599 another show. I mean, I don't want to, you know whatever. 889 01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:33.400 I'm feeling better these days. I've had health issues, but I'm doing I'm 890 01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:35.239 doing Okay, we can you know, you can call me again in a 891 01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:39.400 month if you want or whatever. Excellent, Well, let's definitely do that. 892 01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:41.760 But in the meantime, I want people to go check out your work, 893 01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:44.000 all the stuff you've already done. I mean, I don't know what 894 01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:46.159 you have planned for the future, but uh, there's a hell of a 895 01:04:46.159 --> 01:04:50.119 lot of work already up on patsphere dot com. So I urge you guys 896 01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:54.039 to go check it out and do look up, you know, the mysterious 897 01:04:54.039 --> 01:04:57.440 death number thirty five. Maybe I'll grab the YouTube links and put them in 898 01:04:57.519 --> 01:05:01.559 the show notes as well. Calm, by the way, Okay. Still, 899 01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:06.639 well, I'll put the links up one way or another. They'll get 900 01:05:06.639 --> 01:05:10.039 the links to these things so they can look at it for themselves, because 901 01:05:10.039 --> 01:05:12.679 I want them to do that. But the brain, you know, there's 902 01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:16.760 another interesting thing, right what happened to the brain? You know, I 903 01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:21.519 I have felt for a long time that that is obviously something that was disposed 904 01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:26.960 of along with the casket. Uh you know that casket dump that that that 905 01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:31.000 Bobby Kennedy had done. Okay, so I'm thinking that that's probably where the 906 01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:35.760 brain actually went. But it's fascinating to me when they showed the pictures to 907 01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:42.320 uh, you know, allegedly the the autopsy pot the photograph photographer of record, 908 01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:47.519 Uh you know, Stringer, he's got problems identifying those photographs as the 909 01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:54.559 photographs he took. And that's an interesting point just to be made right there. 910 01:05:54.639 --> 01:05:57.760 I mean, he has, uh, there's a bunch of problems here 911 01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:03.960 with the medical evidence Stringer inability to recognize those as photographs he took. But 912 01:06:04.519 --> 01:06:08.800 he was looking at the quality of the film and the nature of the film. 913 01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:12.760 He did not say that the brain was a totally different kind of brain 914 01:06:12.840 --> 01:06:15.559 that he remembered, and so a lot of people twist that his inability to 915 01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:21.159 recognize the photos themselves as him saying, oh, that the brain was really 916 01:06:21.159 --> 01:06:24.800 there was a blowout on the back of the head, because that's not what 917 01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:26.960 he said at all. In fact, the back of the head photo he 918 01:06:27.039 --> 01:06:29.480 said, yeah, I took that photo and that's how I remember it. 919 01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:33.800 So a lot of times people will cherry picks certain things to try to like 920 01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:40.719 push you in a direction. But Stringer did not think that the brain photos 921 01:06:40.719 --> 01:06:44.599 were faked because he remembered the back of the brain all missing. That's not 922 01:06:44.599 --> 01:06:46.599 true at all. It was the quality it was. As a photographer, 923 01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:49.519 he didn't remember using that kind of film. Yeah, it was the type 924 01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:54.400 of film. That's that's what I hope. I didn't present it like you 925 01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:57.920 know. But I'm just bringing up the brain because he did recognize the brain 926 01:06:58.000 --> 01:07:02.079 photo, but there is a controversy about where it actually ended up going. 927 01:07:02.119 --> 01:07:05.760 The brain itself is what I was bringing up, you know, And there's 928 01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:11.199 all kinds of things here. It is bizarre though, that he's basically said 929 01:07:11.239 --> 01:07:15.840 I didn't use that kind of film. That is a really strange thing. 930 01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:19.320 It almost makes you think that either we're looking at copies of his originals or 931 01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:25.559 or or this is somebody else's photographs. I mean, that's what that leads 932 01:07:25.599 --> 01:07:30.360 me too. Yeah. But unfortunately, you know, a lot of times 933 01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:33.800 I have a bias because I look in a lot of times when people say 934 01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:36.559 these things, you look and it's like, oh, well, he said 935 01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:40.199 this in nineteen sixty five, he said this, in nineteen seventy seven, 936 01:07:40.239 --> 01:07:42.920 he said this, and then the guys like ninety eight. It is eighties. 937 01:07:43.519 --> 01:07:46.440 A case of stringer. He's seventy eight, and now we're saying something 938 01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:50.159 different, and a lot of people will immediately grab on to what he says 939 01:07:50.239 --> 01:07:55.000 later and say, well, this must be the truth. And unfortunately, 940 01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:59.599 as people get further away from event their memories, in particularly as we age, 941 01:08:00.320 --> 01:08:02.400 you know, and uh, the people, oh, you're being biased 942 01:08:02.440 --> 01:08:08.280 against old people, And I'm like, oh, and I well, like 943 01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:11.920 in the case of this whole thing with you know, with the Secret Service 944 01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:14.880 agent who came out recently, right, oh sure, yeah, I think 945 01:08:14.920 --> 01:08:17.680 he's just you know, one of the things which I jumped on right off 946 01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:20.920 the bat, and some other people you know, documented it better or were 947 01:08:20.920 --> 01:08:25.479 more interested in documenting it. But he, you know, in in the 948 01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:30.640 eighties, and then I think on the fiftieth anniversary whatever he was always saying, 949 01:08:30.039 --> 01:08:34.760 he said numerous times that he'd found a fragment on the on the on 950 01:08:34.840 --> 01:08:41.359 the back seat, right, and now years later it becomes a full bullet 951 01:08:41.399 --> 01:08:45.399 and then he takes it and he puts it on the stretcher. And it's 952 01:08:45.479 --> 01:08:48.000 like, well, I believe he found something because he said it for a 953 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:51.760 long time that he said he found something. But the attack bullet that he 954 01:08:51.760 --> 01:08:55.479 goes and puts on the stretcher, I'm not. I'm not really, I'm 955 01:08:55.720 --> 01:08:58.359 I can't go there. I'm not believe good to believe that. Well, 956 01:08:58.359 --> 01:09:00.760 I've got a problem with that. I've got a pro with the fact that 957 01:09:00.800 --> 01:09:03.359 he says he put it on jfk stretcher, And I'm pretty satisfied that's not 958 01:09:03.399 --> 01:09:08.720 where the bullet was found. Number one. Number two, he also seen 959 01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:11.760 it right as somebody would have seen it. Yes, Well, and there's 960 01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:15.760 another problem here is that numerous times the way he describes it, he could 961 01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:18.359 not have been there at the time that he now describes it. You know 962 01:09:18.880 --> 01:09:25.119 where already JFK's body was removed from the scene before he showed up a couple 963 01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:28.760 of in a couple of versions of this story. Now, what's interesting to 964 01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:31.760 me is that Larry Hancock at this year's Lancer conference, you know, makes 965 01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:38.119 that statement about Look, you guys can't just go to somebody who's ninety years 966 01:09:38.119 --> 01:09:42.960 old, now get a story from them, and discount everything that was ever 967 01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:47.359 said before. You know, it doesn't work that way. As much as 968 01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:50.399 there is such a thing as a deathbed confession, and there is such a 969 01:09:50.439 --> 01:09:56.640 thing as somebody finally feeling as though they could be freed to make a truthful 970 01:09:56.680 --> 01:10:01.279 statement after all these years and everything else, you can't judge things solely based 971 01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:05.560 on the statement you got from somebody in their nineties. It's just that simple. 972 01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:09.880 And that's again not a bias about old people. It was, you 973 01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:14.640 know, it's just a matter of Look, memory is not a recording device 974 01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:19.760 anyway. You know. You can remember things differently based on your perspective everything 975 01:10:19.760 --> 01:10:25.640 else, but your subject. Your memory is always subject to revision. It 976 01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:30.439 just is. It's subject to revision based on new information. If you don't 977 01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:32.279 believe me, here's the thing, you know, forget about the gunshots in 978 01:10:32.359 --> 01:10:36.239 daily Plaza. If you've ever been around other people who've been around gunshots, 979 01:10:36.279 --> 01:10:40.840 that were not expected in any way, shape or form. Guess what. 980 01:10:41.159 --> 01:10:45.920 At first, they don't always know that it's a gunshot. Later on they 981 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:50.680 might say that was a gunshot because they've assembled new information into it. But 982 01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:58.239 their initial experience is usually there was a loud noise unless they see something that 983 01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:00.680 backs it up that says that's obviously a bullet. You know, they see 984 01:11:00.680 --> 01:11:04.720 a bullet strike, or they hear or they feel a bullet strike and things 985 01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:09.840 like that. Okay, But initially, most people that are around gunshots, 986 01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:13.520 they heard a noise. They didn't know what it was, unless they're very 987 01:11:13.520 --> 01:11:16.840 accustomed to hearing gunshots. Okay. In that case, you might have somebody 988 01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:20.479 who can identify a gunshot right away. And I'll tell you something else weird 989 01:11:21.159 --> 01:11:28.880 is that being somebody who has been actually shot once. Gotta tell you you 990 01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:31.840 you feel the shot and you don't necessarily even hear it, or if you 991 01:11:31.880 --> 01:11:35.840 do hear it, you hear it after you feel it. That's another weird 992 01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:40.800 thing that happens. Okay, Because guess what. A bullet travels faster than 993 01:11:40.800 --> 01:11:45.119 the speed of sound. Okay, simple physical scientific reality. Most of the 994 01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:49.720 time, Okay, muzzle velocity is above the speed of sound when I was 995 01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:55.119 shot in the leg. Pat, You know what I noted first, not 996 01:11:55.199 --> 01:11:58.920 that I was shot, but that my leg was wet. That was the 997 01:11:58.960 --> 01:12:02.399 first thing. I I knew blood before I knew I was shot, Okay, 998 01:12:03.199 --> 01:12:06.399 and I didn't know it was blood, as I just stated, my 999 01:12:06.520 --> 01:12:13.119 leg is wet. That was my first sensation. I assembled that information afterwards 1000 01:12:13.159 --> 01:12:15.640 that I had been shot because I wasn't expecting to get hit with a bullet. 1001 01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:18.960 Okay, that's crazy, there kind of was it? By the way, 1002 01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:27.000 it was what from a nine what do you call it? A nine 1003 01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:32.640 millimeter semi automatic? But the thing is it wasn't that far away, maybe 1004 01:12:33.039 --> 01:12:38.279 what one hundred feet away? I think I was hit from something like that. 1005 01:12:38.439 --> 01:12:42.640 And yeah, I noted that my leg was wet before I realized that 1006 01:12:42.680 --> 01:12:46.640 a gunshot was fired. That was my personal experience. Now I'm not even 1007 01:12:46.680 --> 01:12:50.760 saying that that's everybody's experience. I'm just saying that there's one case I know 1008 01:12:50.880 --> 01:12:55.119 of personally, and I've heard from other people who have been shot, who 1009 01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:59.479 have been in combat, who had been in other situations. It is not 1010 01:12:59.800 --> 01:13:01.800 in order that a lot of people think it is. And when you're around 1011 01:13:01.840 --> 01:13:06.359 it and you're not being shot or the shooter. It's another experience. Again, 1012 01:13:06.359 --> 01:13:11.159 if it's an unexpected circumstance. And when people start to examine you know, 1013 01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:15.560 the ear witness testimonies, right and all that other stuff, they warp 1014 01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:17.560 and twist these things eighty different ways, and a lot of times, guess 1015 01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:24.079 what they wind up doing is making a lot of assertions based on preconceived notions. 1016 01:13:24.119 --> 01:13:27.560 And meanwhile, isn't that the thing that we're all complaining about when it 1017 01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:30.279 comes to the official explanation? Sure? So, yeah, you know, 1018 01:13:30.479 --> 01:13:35.199 I caution everybody to be very careful about the assertions you make, especially based 1019 01:13:35.239 --> 01:13:41.840 on a witness and you know, somebody's story, somebody's you know, newly 1020 01:13:42.039 --> 01:13:45.680 revealed information after they've been interviewed before, after they've been through it already. 1021 01:13:46.680 --> 01:13:49.840 Indeed, there are some people who will come to revelations later. And that's 1022 01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:55.760 true, but you have to you have to put all these things in their 1023 01:13:55.800 --> 01:14:01.479 proper context. And it's not Actually I actually a lot of research on I 1024 01:14:01.560 --> 01:14:05.840 witnessed accuracy, and I witnessed testimony and read a couple of books and a 1025 01:14:06.039 --> 01:14:11.399 number of articles, and yeah, people are really open to suggestion, Like 1026 01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:17.640 you know, I witnessed testimony, or people will line ups, you know, 1027 01:14:17.840 --> 01:14:20.079 during a criminal lineup, they say, oh, I saw the guy, 1028 01:14:20.600 --> 01:14:24.359 how good of how good a look at him did you get? And 1029 01:14:24.399 --> 01:14:27.960 they say, oh, you know, okay, I think maybe i'll recognize 1030 01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:31.399 him. Then they're shown somebody who's not the person, and then you know, 1031 01:14:31.439 --> 01:14:34.439 an actor will say a plane, a cop or something will say like, 1032 01:14:34.880 --> 01:14:39.239 wow, and is that the guy? And they'll say I think so, 1033 01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:42.119 and they'll say, well, good because he's definitely the guy and you 1034 01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:44.960 nailed him, and blah blah blah. And then later on then the last 1035 01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:47.840 the guy that the witness afterwards like how sure are you that it was him? 1036 01:14:47.920 --> 01:14:49.960 Oh, one hundred percent sure. I knew at the moment I looked 1037 01:14:49.960 --> 01:14:56.279 at him, because they got reinforcement. So sometimes people are it's something is 1038 01:14:56.319 --> 01:15:00.720 tentative, and then once they get reinforcement they say they're definitely sure or positive. 1039 01:15:00.279 --> 01:15:04.520 You know that the shots came from here or that the wound was there. 1040 01:15:06.119 --> 01:15:11.199 So yeah, people's memories are very fragile and they could really open a 1041 01:15:11.279 --> 01:15:14.560 suggestion from outside sources. Oh yeah, and I've even seen that again. 1042 01:15:14.640 --> 01:15:17.199 Last personal thing is that you know I used to run convenience stores and gas 1043 01:15:17.199 --> 01:15:20.680 stations. So guess what I had to deal with a few times when places 1044 01:15:20.720 --> 01:15:26.880 were robbed. And quite frankly, even the cashier standing five feet away from 1045 01:15:26.960 --> 01:15:30.720 somebody pointing a gun at them is open to suggestion. You figure it might 1046 01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:34.640 be burned in their mind, in their memory exactly what that person looked like, 1047 01:15:34.720 --> 01:15:38.399 what their height was, the type of gun they had, any of 1048 01:15:38.439 --> 01:15:44.199 that information. Quite frankly, I've seen it get shifted around and in real 1049 01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:49.600 time people that your memory is subject to revision, and it doesn't matter if 1050 01:15:49.640 --> 01:15:54.600 it's a traumatic event, if it's a violent event. I always loved that 1051 01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:59.039 thing that Boogliosi tried pulling at that mock trial, which was this whole well 1052 01:15:59.039 --> 01:16:01.159 you've never been in front of the president before, have you. I mean 1053 01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:04.359 it was exciting because you were in front of the president, so your memory 1054 01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:09.600 might be a little off. I mean, that is the weirdest thing. 1055 01:16:09.920 --> 01:16:15.439 Yeah. The best one of those is of Walter Cronkite. CBS tried to 1056 01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:18.439 do like a reenactment of how fast he could fire the rifle and all that 1057 01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:24.079 stuff, and it got to be where their reenactments and stuff were like, 1058 01:16:24.159 --> 01:16:30.279 well it's possible, but it's not likely. And so they actually wrote some 1059 01:16:30.680 --> 01:16:33.399 total bs for Walter Crockae to say, well, you know, Oswald, 1060 01:16:34.079 --> 01:16:39.159 this was he knew this was his only chance to shoot Kennedy, so he'd 1061 01:16:39.159 --> 01:16:44.680 be more he could fire faster and more accurately or whatever it is. It's 1062 01:16:44.720 --> 01:16:48.039 like, that's not how it works, you know. People. If anything, 1063 01:16:48.039 --> 01:16:50.119 he'd be nervous, then he'd be more likely to miss, right. 1064 01:16:50.239 --> 01:16:55.319 Yeah, he was so highly motivated. He was so highly motivated that it 1065 01:16:55.720 --> 01:17:01.199 literally increased his skill level. H yeah, exactly. Now I remember that. 1066 01:17:01.279 --> 01:17:06.720 I think that's from the sixty seven special as well. Yeah, it 1067 01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:11.520 is funny. Anyways, guys, Patspear dot com go over there. The 1068 01:17:11.560 --> 01:17:15.439 mysterious death of Number thirty five is definitely one of the things. But go 1069 01:17:15.479 --> 01:17:17.680 through all the chapters there. There's a lot of information. Now I'm gonna 1070 01:17:17.680 --> 01:17:21.000 have to go back over some stuff because I was not aware of a couple 1071 01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:26.319 of things he's got over there, and I definitely recommend it. And we're 1072 01:17:26.359 --> 01:17:30.359 gonna have Pat Spear back again probably in about a month if if he's up 1073 01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:32.720 for it, And that's the way we're gonna close this one out. Guys, 1074 01:17:32.760 --> 01:17:36.319 so no matter, We'll turn down the music for a second. No 1075 01:17:36.359 --> 01:17:40.600 matter who you are, where you are, when you are. I want 1076 01:17:40.600 --> 01:17:45.000 to thank Pat Spear for joining me tonight. Patspear dot com, P A 1077 01:17:45.159 --> 01:17:47.920 T. S P E e r dot com. That's the website to go 1078 01:17:47.960 --> 01:17:53.359 to check out his work on the Kennedy assassination and click around the website, 1079 01:17:53.479 --> 01:17:56.800 kick around there and check other things out. Anyways, no matter who you 1080 01:17:56.840 --> 01:17:58.920 are, where you are, when you are. I'm merely old. Do 1081 01:17:59.000 --> 01:18:03.000 you remember that time and Benjamin Fulford said that an Asian secret society was going 1082 01:18:03.039 --> 01:18:10.760 to dispatch ninjas to take down the Illuminati. Oh that's interesting. Yeah, 1083 01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:14.880 did that ever work out too good? No, it didn't, did it? 1084 01:18:15.560 --> 01:18:18.000 But here on o'celly dot com Radio network, things work out a bit 1085 01:18:18.039 --> 01:18:25.960 better, don't they much better? Much and understanding about the programs, the 1086 01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:31.600 programs much clear, getting live people into it. They really have a good 1087 01:18:31.640 --> 01:18:38.079 conversation going much better, much better scene. I say, forget Benjamin Fulford 1088 01:18:38.119 --> 01:18:42.680 and his ninjas and listen to the ocelly dot com Radio Network. I agree, 1089 01:18:42.840 --> 01:18:45.720 it's straight to the point, straight talk, and I like that idea. 1090 01:18:50.319 --> 01:18:55.279 Uncle, do you remember that time when Benjamin Fulford said that an Asian 1091 01:18:55.359 --> 01:19:00.439 secret society was going to dispatch ninjas to take down the illuminatih that's interesting, 1092 01:19:00.680 --> 01:19:04.079 yeah in the latoon. Yeah, did that ever work out too good? 1093 01:19:04.359 --> 01:19:10.520 No? It didn't, did it? But here on Ocelli dot com Radio 1094 01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:13.920 Network, things work out a bit better, don't they much better? Much 1095 01:19:13.960 --> 01:19:20.680 media is clear and understanding about the programs, the programs much clear, getting 1096 01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:27.560 live people into it. They really have a good conversation going much better, 1097 01:19:27.600 --> 01:19:30.840 so much better scene. I say, forget Benjamin Fulford and his ninjas and 1098 01:19:30.920 --> 01:19:35.239 listen to the Ocelli dot com Radio Network. I agree. It's straight to 1099 01:19:35.319 --> 01:19:41.439 the point, straight talk, and I like that idea. Uncle, I'll 1100 01:19:41.439 --> 01:19:45.479 bet you remember the time when Benjamin Fulford said that the Asian Secret Society was 1101 01:19:45.520 --> 01:19:49.720 going to dispatch ninjas to take out the Illuminati to change the entire world for 1102 01:19:49.800 --> 01:19:55.199 the better. That it never gonna happen. That never did it, never 1103 01:19:55.279 --> 01:20:00.399 did did Yeah, because there's a lot of false promises, these fools I 1104 01:20:00.479 --> 01:20:03.159 did soon. We better not say and be polite, but there are no 1105 01:20:03.319 --> 01:20:08.399 false promises at the O'Kelly dot com Radio Network. That's exactly it. Nuts, 1106 01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:15.239 It's the truth the point, white to the point, and this is 1107 01:20:15.359 --> 01:20:20.479 what I like, straight to the point, o'kellylly dot com. This and 1108 01:20:20.600 --> 01:20:25.600 now, if you've expressed my callers goals, there anyone else who happens to 1109 01:20:25.600 --> 01:20:28.319 get on the air of Jelly dot com. You not necessarily replet we using 1110 01:20:28.760 --> 01:20:31.039 dot com or Joe Kelly and we are not responsible. We're getting stupidity which 1111 01:20:31.079 --> 01:20:38.840 might insuet In Denial the Secret Wars with Air Stripes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. 1112 01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:44.600 Secret wars became a staple of US covert operations that are still happening today. 1113 01:20:44.880 --> 01:20:48.520 Larry Hancock's book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using 1114 01:20:48.600 --> 01:20:53.079 new files. It exposes things about the Bay and Pigs that no one has 1115 01:20:53.119 --> 01:20:57.439 ever written about before. It shows why it really failed and why the United 1116 01:20:57.439 --> 01:21:00.680 States did not earn from it. It also knows why other countries today are 1117 01:21:00.760 --> 01:21:05.000 doing the secret operations with more success. This is the book that puts what 1118 01:21:05.239 --> 01:21:11.840 some want to deny into the light. In Denial, Secret Wars with Air 1119 01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:17.880 strikes and Tanks Larryhancock. For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot 1120 01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:23.479 com. Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot Com in digital 1121 01:21:23.680 --> 01:21:39.239 or physical form, Wallstream Window dot Roll Silver the stock market, Wallstream Window, 1122 01:21:39.439 --> 01:21:44.800 dott Perhaps you're invested deeply, Perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe 1123 01:21:44.840 --> 01:21:49.640 you're thinking about getting started wall Street, Windows dot comdo dot com. Michael 1124 01:21:49.680 --> 01:21:55.600 Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for 1125 01:21:55.720 --> 01:22:00.439 many years, and now he gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wallow 1126 01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:06.079 dot com. Go there, now, go there, now go there, 1127 01:22:06.199 --> 01:22:11.800 now go ahead. Call it about the Jafa assassination. Right, Well, 1128 01:22:11.800 --> 01:22:15.880 what do you want to know Toddy Baker's wild claim Oswald girlfriends he knew Ruby 1129 01:22:15.920 --> 01:22:18.359 and Barrie Ganser weapons. Really, I imagine I could claim I have four 1130 01:22:18.399 --> 01:22:21.600 wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, Oswald was on 1131 01:22:21.720 --> 01:22:25.640 the building and trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on, 1132 01:22:25.760 --> 01:22:29.720 now, has a real effort on the Dafay assassination into claim. Go to 1133 01:22:29.840 --> 01:22:33.920 Amazon dot com, enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the 1134 01:22:33.960 --> 01:22:39.960 results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words 1135 01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:44.960 and the known evidence in the case to get at well a different perspective. 1136 01:22:45.039 --> 01:22:48.239 Let's say You can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words from the author 1137 01:22:48.319 --> 01:22:53.640 himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at k I A 1138 01:22:53.960 --> 01:22:59.640 s JFK at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects 1139 01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:03.399 the many, many fantastic claims. Judith very Baker in her own words, 1140 01:23:03.520 --> 01:23:09.800 thank you for the information. Oh Chili dot com, revelation through conversation, 1141 01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:17.840 Get get ready for your Chi