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So at the end of the day, he says to the person suppressing his

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own conscience, he says, so, who should I believe you who say

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you don't believe in the Bible?
Or should I believe in what the Bible

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says about you? Well, I'd
choose the latter. Welcome to the Capital

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Ministries Weekend with Ralph Drollinger. My
name is Frank Sontag. Ralph is the

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president and founder of Capital Ministries.
Ralph does a weekly Bible study we're going

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to talk about today, as well
as teaching Bible studies in DC and all

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throughout the world for that matter.
Ralph, it's always good to see you.

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Thanks Frank, good to be with
you today. Thank you so much.

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Capital Ministries has been around for almost
a quarter of a century. In

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one area that each and every viewer
would benefit by is to go to our

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website at Katman dot org and at
the very least download each and every week

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the Bible study that's posted. And
today we're going to get into one specific

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We can only really scratch the surface
of what's in our typical weekly Bible study

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that I teach in DC to our
senators and House members and separate studies as

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well as former White House Cabinet members
and governors on a zoom Bible study every

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week, and so I write fifty
two of these a year. There are

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usually eight pages in length. As
you know, they're well laid out.

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There's four color treatment throughout it,
so it's not like it's hard to get

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through. We have pull quotes and
all kinds of artwork that make it digestible.

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But suffice to say, all we're
going to do on a half hour

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program is hit the high points,
and so it's really beneficial if our listeners

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can go to caapmen dot org and
you'll see it right there on the homepage.

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Today's study that we're going to talk
a bit about is entitled how to

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Respond to Scripture Rejectors. Just from
the beginning elaborate on the title. Well,

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there's a viewpoint in evangelic that says, since we live in a post

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Christian world quote unquote, and people
reject the Bible, then don't, especially

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in the political arena, when you're
arguing for policy, don't try to argue

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from scripture. That's passe, that's
of the past. So is that a

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correct view or not? I had
one evangelical leader some years ago call me

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out on the carpet saying you can't
do that in DC. If you do,

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we'll go to war with you.
And I thought, wow, is

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that bizarre. So I have my
own views on that that are centered from

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scripture frank out of Romans chapter one
today, if I may, I'm sure

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there's some listeners that would think I'd
like to know a little bit more about

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that exchange, and just in a
moment or two, what do you think

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he was thinking of? And what's
the biblical truth about such things? Well,

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you know, it gets into what
we call the study of epistemology and

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pistemology is what is your starting points
for veracity? And so what a second

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deals or a Christian who lives in
the secular world would say that upholds that

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position is since people reject the Scripture
itself as the authority for your epistemological starting

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point, that you need to use
other starting points that are also truthful,

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like a survey of what the public
believes, or scientific evidence or appealing to

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conscience. And we'd say, yeah, those probably all have their place,

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but why throw out your home court
advantage, which is the veracity of the

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inerrant infallible, plenarily inspired, authoritative
oracle of God. Amen. And so

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what this study is all about centers
from what we would call from Romans chapter

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one, as propagated by the famous
apologists Cornelius van Till. We'd call this

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presuppositional apologetics versus the viewpoint of evidential
apologetics. And let me try to unpack

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that. Please. The presuppositionalist would
say, I'm going to presuppose that scriptures

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written on your conscience, and I'm
going to peel to that from the basis

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that all you're doing and saying you
don't believe the Bible is you're just suppressing

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that which you know to be true
because it's written on your heart. Whereas

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the evidentialists would fall for the quip
back, well, I don't believe in

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the Bible, and say, well, since you don't believe in the Bible,

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let me try to prove to you
why the Bible is truthful. Well,

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you could argue to the end of
the day typically and not get that

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person to agree that the Bible is
authoritative. Why because every person wants to

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be a good friend to themselves,
and since they come with the chip inside

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which is their conscience, which has
been programmed by God as to what is

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morally truthful and what's not. That
person in order to live and what we'll

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call ecostasis, where there's a balance
between what they do and what they believe.

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They're either going to jack up their
actions with their belief which is written

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on their heart, or they're not
going to change their actions. And so

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to live in balance with self is
that they lower their standard as to what

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they think is truthful by discounting their
conscience. And Romans one talks about that

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and uses the word suppression, that
they suppress the truth in their unrighteousness.

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And as John three says, that
they basically know what's right to do,

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but because their deeds are evil,
they suppress that truth. And so the

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presuppositionless knows all that from Scripture.
So at the end of the day,

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he says to the person suppressing his
own conscience, he says, so who

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should I believe you who say you
don't believe in the Bible, or should

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I believe in what the Bible says
about you? Well, I choose the

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latter. This is what presuppositional apologetics
is all about. And in our Bible

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study how to respond to scripture rejectors, we go into this in greater detail.

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Ralph Drawlinger is always ungrateful to say, as my guest, the Bible

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study is in depth, and this
is just a few moments, if you

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will. But when we talk a
little bit more about the idea of conscience,

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and you write in one of the
segments called the testimony of conscience,

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Yeah, so let me draw an
analogy there a picture. Some years ago,

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one of the American computer manufacturers used
to deliver all their computers with their

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own software inside, which was pretty
much non overwritable, and so they were

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sued in the European court for monopolistic
reasons, and they were found to be

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guilty of it because basically they were
delivering a product that had their own conscience

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inside of it. Well, in
a sense, that's what God does with

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every human being that he manufactures,
as that he delivers the product with his

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own circuitry or his own software,
and that software is revelatory of the manufacture.

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It's got his imprint on it.
And you don't have to tell a

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child to know what's right and wrong. You don't have to tell someone in

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another culture or another time what is
right or wrong they already know it because

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it's written on their conscience by the
manufacture. And so what the person who's

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living apart from obedience to that conscience
does is they begin to suppress. And

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Romans One says they can suppress to
the point of cauterizing the conscience. And

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that English word is from the medical
industry, but it comes from the Greek

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New Testament, which is cotur rizo, which is where a person basically,

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after denying their conscience for so long, they fry the chipboard and it no

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longer works. And so we see
that manifest in three evidences in Romans one,

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where three times Paul says to the
church at Rome and God gave them

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over, and then he lists evidences
each time of what that characteristically looks like.

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And so we can know, especially
where I minister in DC and the

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political arena, and we don't want
to have a judgmental spirit here, but

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in these are infinitive verbs, meaning
they're ongoing. We can know that over

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a long time, if a person
is a reprobate, if they're depraved,

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if they have a coterized conscience,
by these monikers of distinctiveness that are given

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to us in scripture, and one
is sexual perversion. Another is they actually

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give they give license to things that
are wrong, and they don't agree with

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things that are right. Their conscience
is so screwed up. And so we

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as believers should be able to ascertain
who the scripture rejectors are, and Scripture

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says we shouldn't really negotiate with them, we should call them out and see

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them for who they are. And
unfortunately DC is full of them. Yeah,

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and it's a real sad state.
And so how you react to that

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has a lot to do with if
we're going to have a testimony in DC

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or not, or in any state
capital or in any city government where oftentimes

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it's full of reprobation of people with
coterized consciences. So, again not to

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be redundant. Here in your study, which is in depth, you give

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lots of examples of how we are
to respond. And instead of going,

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I wash my hands, reprobate mine, they're doomed. Maybe the first thing

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that comes to your mind about your
study about how do we respond other than

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being biblically informed and being willing to
confront lovingly, but how do we respond?

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Well, that's part informed by Jesus
in several ways. One is this

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parable of the tears. Now in
the parable of the terrors, Remember Frank,

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he talks about how the terrors grow
up with a wheat and you can't

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distinguish them one from another, and
he doesn't say to root them out.

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So in one sense, Jesus is
saying, during the church age, you're

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going to have to live with these
kinds of people. A Jude, the

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Book of Jude, right before the
Book of Revelation, is all about the

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acts of the apostates. In note, the Acts of the Apostles is the

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book of Acts. The acts of
the Apostates is the Book of Jude.

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And in the Book of Jude he
gives you nine characteristics of an apostate.

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What's the difference between an apostate and
a reprobate and a tear? Not much.

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You could say that an apostate is
a tear in full bloom, and

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a reprobate is you usually the manifest
conscientiousness or lack thereof, of an apostate.

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So they may have at one time, if not presently, acknowledge who

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Jesus is, but they're only giving
lip service. But Jesus also says in

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regards to them, don't cast your
pearls before swine. That's quite picturesque,

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quite strong, quite in essence offensive
language today in a woke America. But

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suffice to say, there's this in
answer to your question, a need to

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call them out. Paul says,
in the pastorals that were soldiers of Christ,

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and he tells Timothy to war against
them. He says, God hasn't

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given us a spirit of fear,
but of power and love and a sound

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mind. And so I have to
say to some guys in DC who either

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colleagues or apostates, or tears or
reprobates, and answer your question, how

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do you deal with them? You've
got to be strong and courageous and say,

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thus, saith the Lord. You're
acting in a way that is not

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biblical. And don't tell me you
don't believe in the Bible. You do.

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It's just that you're suppressing it.
And I'm here in love to help

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you quit suppressing that which you know
to be true. Amen. Here at

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Capital Ministries, we are aggressively recruiting
volunteer Bible teachers to start discipleship ministries in

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the forty thousand local city and county
governments across America. We provide the training,

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the Bible studies, the credentialing,
and the ongoing encouragement to those individuals

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whom God is raising up for this
overlooked but very important mission field. We

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need strong men who can teach Bible
studies to their city council members, Men

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who are disciple makers. Is that
you or possibly someone you know? Go

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to capmen dot org and click on
the ministry tab. Join a team of

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thousands who want to change the trajectory
of America. Again, go to capmen

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dot org. As in Capitalministries,
Who do you know who can be trained

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to do this in your city?
Caapmen dot org. This is the Capital

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Ministries Weekend with President and Founder Ralph
Drellinger. This is Frank Sontag. We've

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spent a bit of time talking about
a Bible study of many Bible studies on

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our website caapmin dot org. This
one is entitled how to respond to Scripture

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Rejectors. One last question about the
study, and then we'll spend a few

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moments talking to our listeners about how
they can get more involved with Capital Ministries.

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It kind of goes like this.
Ralph I've voiced your studies for years,

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sitting across from you, listening to
you hit bullet points, if you

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will, of some of these studies. All sorts of things go through my

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mind, and the primary one that
I want to spend just a moment with

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is this idea of loving confrontation,
or even with the state of whether it's

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our culture or the church, the
idea of myself as a Christian. I'm

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just supposed to leave it to God. I just love people and not rock

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the boat. And you know he's
going to come back on a horse and

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all of that. And yet two
full question is that really scripturally sound?

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And or are we not to get
involved in loving confrontation if you will,

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well, I would say this in
regards to that, Frank that in Romans

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one, Paul says that which is
known about God is evident within them,

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for God bade it evident to them, for since the creation of the world

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has invisible attributes his divine nature,
his eternal power have been clearly seen through

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that which is made, so that
they are without excuse. In Chapter two,

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verse fifteen, Paul goes on to
say that the law is written on

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their hearts, and it's evidenced by
the fact that sometimes their conscience defies them

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and sometimes it blesses them, which
shows that each person is morally made and

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knows right from wrong. And so, as a believer, the way we

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deal with these kinds of people,
which is I think the essence of your

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question, is that we manifest the
love of God in every relationship, and

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so we lovingly appeal to them in
a way that's gracious, in a way

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that's merciful to say, friend,
how can I help you quit suppressing that

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which you already know to be true? And yes, you do believe in

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the Bible, but I'm here to
help you bring an en life in that

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belief once again, because I think
what you're doing is you're trying to suppress

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because of your actions and to live
in a way that you don't feel guilty

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all the time. You're trying to
reduce the information your conscience is providing to

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you. And it's almost like nerves
with your son. If he puts his

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fingers on the stovetop, there's going
to be a sensitivity to his brain,

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his inner circuitry that says danger,
danger, danger, And that's what the

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conscience does with the form of guilt
is that when you're violating physical truth,

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your nerve center will tell you.
When you're violating moral truth, your conscience

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is going to alert you. And
so quit frying your conscience because once you

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do. Just like a kid,
if he burns his fingertips and loses those

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nerves, he'll never have that sensitivity. I have frostbite on my feet from

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early mountaineer days being trapped out in
snowstorms, and at seven feet it's pretty

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easy to get frost bite because your
toes are so far from your heart.

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But I have that, and I'm
always very sensitive when my grandchildren are coming

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around and trying to stand on my
feet because my toes don't sense it.

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They could be totally pummeling my toes
and I would not know it because they

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have damaged nerve endings from pre frost
bite. And that's how the brain is

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with a cauterized conscience. And so, friend, I don't want you to

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cauterize your conscience and not have it
work for you the rest of your life.

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Because we see people running around in
culture today who do have a cauterized

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conscience, and you wonder, how
can they how can they do that?

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Yeah, yeah, I digress for
just ten seconds. I think of the

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state of our country, and you
talk to people, you try to have

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conversations, and they don't want to
even go there. Intelligent people and like,

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yeah, you don't see the writing
on the wall here. Can we

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at least have a common so that
to say this part of what I hear

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you saying. And I want to
transition into the idea of what Kapman is

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doing with local government ministry leaders and
urging the listeners to get involved. There's

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a spirit of indifference or I'm not
going to get involved, and yet I

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know there are a lot of people
listening to you right now thinking, wait,

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this all really makes sense to me, and Ralph stirring something in me

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that has been dormant or I choose
not to use now, and yet there's

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a part of me that wants to
get involved. Two things there to your

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question, Frank, God's revealed himself
not only through conscience but through creation the

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passage I mentioned, as well as
special revelation, and so we need to

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appeal to that in other people.
We need to say, are not the

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heavens declaring the glory of God?
When you look up at night and see

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all the stars, or to see
the unfathomable size of the universe, is

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to see the unfathomable size of the
microscopic universe, the atomic structure of our

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universe, and it all bespeaks of
the glory of God. So we appeal

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to that, and we appeal to
the fact that revelation is written in their

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heart, and we use the Bible, whether they reject it or not,

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we always use it as our go
to and then to the person that sees

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all that we're talking about, and
as mature in Christ, we want them

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as a ministry leader in local government
to teach these truths to other people in

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their city council who might be headed
toward a coterized conscience and need someone desperately

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to help them from going there and
to stop that addictive, sinful behavior that's

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basically screwing up their whole life.
They need your help, They need your

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rescue. They need the impartation of
the Holy Spirit through repentance for Christ to

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come and dwell in their heart.
We need an evangelist on the city council

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campus, and so listeners might know
of someone, if not them, who

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could do that kind of ministry like
I do in DC, and we're in

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sixty foreign federal capitals, we're in
over forty state capitals. But we got

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forty thousand local governments in America.
Virtually none of them have an outpost for

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Christ with an intentional, biblically reliant
disciple maker who's skilled in teaching God's precepts

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for the listeners and the viewers that
may resonate with what you just said,

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but have a little trepidation like,
well, i think I've got some skills,

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but I'm lacking in some other areas. Speak to what Capital Ministry says

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done where there's a curriculum, and
yeah, you get credentialed and you've kind

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of, in a sense not to
overstate it, you've laid it out for

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the listener and the viewer to get
involved and walk them through it. Yeah,

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we're not just selling a pipe dream
here and say go at it,

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thank you. We have a whole
infrastructure at Catmen that can be discovered through

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our website. You can apply to
be a local government ministry leader. We'll

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bring you into a three day training
conference. We'll equip you with what's called

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oaks in Office, which are seventy
seven of my favorite in depth Bible studies,

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not only exegetically deep, but with
a custom application to the life of

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a political leader. Will teach you
how to teach those We'll mentor you.

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We'll put you on a zoom call
with your colleagues from throughout the world every

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two weeks to be encouraged. So
you'll be part of a team. Maybe

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you're a past Bible teacher in your
Sunday school class, or a pastor or

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a businessman that's looking to go from
success to significance. Maybe you should be

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part of the cap Mean team and
we'll be here to hold your hand through

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the process and see that you have
a viable, successful ministry in your local

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government. Go to our website at
CapMan dot org to find out more.

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It's something that I know. I
don't want to mistate the word passion.

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It's overused, but this is something
that's at the heart of not only evangelism,

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but ministry and how we miss it
in our country with local governments.

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Yeah, we definitely need to have
our best disciple makers in the midst of

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our political leaders. There's something about
that mission field that we as evangelicals have

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overlooked and yet it's probably the most
strategic important mission field out there. And

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if we don't change the hearts of
our lawmakers, we can't ever expect them

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to carry our water and to make
decisions that are biblically based. You can't

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expect someone who rejects the author of
Scripture to accept or enact the precepts of

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his book. Just not going to
happen. But we have to do is

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something more foundational and fundamental, and
that is win their heart to Christ and

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teach them the word of God when
they're in office or as they're going into

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office, so that they think biblically. And if any man's in Christ,

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he's a new creature. Behold,
old things pass away, new things come.

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I never have to tell someone in
my Bible studies how to vote if

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they're walking with the Lord obedience.
Amen. Ralph Drewllinger is President and founder

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of Capital Ministries. The Bible study
we briefly touched upon today is entitled how

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to respond to Scripture Rejectors. You
can find that Bible study and all the

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other ones at the website capmen dot
org, caapmen dot org, capmin dot

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org. And also, we're grateful
and excited about this. The Capital Ministries

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Weekend with Ralph Drollinger a weekly delve
into a Bible study not only from Scripture,

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but also addressing the state of the
world in the country today. And

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Ralph and I will be here each
and every week. If we can serve

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you in any way, please feel
free to go to capmen dot Org Ralph

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until next week. Thanks again and
God bless you well. Thanks Frank,

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it's always great to be with you. Thank you for listening to this the

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Capital Ministries Weekend with Ralph Drollinger.
Will you help support the ongoing work of

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Capital Ministries Today Here at CAP we
think it's time for a biblically based missions

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strategy to change the trajectory of America. For the past fifty years we've worked

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to change the laws of the land
rather than the hearts of the lawmakers.

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What's resulted is a country in continual
decline. Rather than try and get politicians

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who reject the author of Scripture to
accept the precepts of his book, let

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us instead place our best disciple makers
and evangelists in the seats of governmental leaders

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who start ministries in city halls,
state capitals, and federal capitals in America

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and throughout the world. Let us
win and build public servants for Christ.

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Go to Kaptman dot org today and
give together. Let us make disciples of

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Jesus Christ in the political arena here
in America and throughout the world.

