So at the end of the day, he says to the person suppressing his
own conscience, he says, so, who should I believe you who say
you don't believe in the Bible? Or should I believe in what the Bible
says about you? Well, I'd choose the latter. Welcome to the Capital
Ministries Weekend with Ralph Drollinger. My name is Frank Sontag. Ralph is the
president and founder of Capital Ministries. Ralph does a weekly Bible study we're going
to talk about today, as well as teaching Bible studies in DC and all
throughout the world for that matter. Ralph, it's always good to see you.
Thanks Frank, good to be with you today. Thank you so much.
Capital Ministries has been around for almost a quarter of a century. In
one area that each and every viewer would benefit by is to go to our
website at Katman dot org and at the very least download each and every week
the Bible study that's posted. And today we're going to get into one specific
We can only really scratch the surface of what's in our typical weekly Bible study
that I teach in DC to our senators and House members and separate studies as
well as former White House Cabinet members and governors on a zoom Bible study every
week, and so I write fifty two of these a year. There are
usually eight pages in length. As you know, they're well laid out.
There's four color treatment throughout it, so it's not like it's hard to get
through. We have pull quotes and all kinds of artwork that make it digestible.
But suffice to say, all we're going to do on a half hour
program is hit the high points, and so it's really beneficial if our listeners
can go to caapmen dot org and you'll see it right there on the homepage.
Today's study that we're going to talk a bit about is entitled how to
Respond to Scripture Rejectors. Just from the beginning elaborate on the title. Well,
there's a viewpoint in evangelic that says, since we live in a post
Christian world quote unquote, and people reject the Bible, then don't, especially
in the political arena, when you're arguing for policy, don't try to argue
from scripture. That's passe, that's of the past. So is that a
correct view or not? I had one evangelical leader some years ago call me
out on the carpet saying you can't do that in DC. If you do,
we'll go to war with you. And I thought, wow, is
that bizarre. So I have my own views on that that are centered from
scripture frank out of Romans chapter one today, if I may, I'm sure
there's some listeners that would think I'd like to know a little bit more about
that exchange, and just in a moment or two, what do you think
he was thinking of? And what's the biblical truth about such things? Well,
you know, it gets into what we call the study of epistemology and
pistemology is what is your starting points for veracity? And so what a second
deals or a Christian who lives in the secular world would say that upholds that
position is since people reject the Scripture itself as the authority for your epistemological starting
point, that you need to use other starting points that are also truthful,
like a survey of what the public believes, or scientific evidence or appealing to
conscience. And we'd say, yeah, those probably all have their place,
but why throw out your home court advantage, which is the veracity of the
inerrant infallible, plenarily inspired, authoritative oracle of God. Amen. And so
what this study is all about centers from what we would call from Romans chapter
one, as propagated by the famous apologists Cornelius van Till. We'd call this
presuppositional apologetics versus the viewpoint of evidential apologetics. And let me try to unpack
that. Please. The presuppositionalist would say, I'm going to presuppose that scriptures
written on your conscience, and I'm going to peel to that from the basis
that all you're doing and saying you don't believe the Bible is you're just suppressing
that which you know to be true because it's written on your heart. Whereas
the evidentialists would fall for the quip back, well, I don't believe in
the Bible, and say, well, since you don't believe in the Bible,
let me try to prove to you why the Bible is truthful. Well,
you could argue to the end of the day typically and not get that
person to agree that the Bible is authoritative. Why because every person wants to
be a good friend to themselves, and since they come with the chip inside
which is their conscience, which has been programmed by God as to what is
morally truthful and what's not. That person in order to live and what we'll
call ecostasis, where there's a balance between what they do and what they believe.
They're either going to jack up their actions with their belief which is written
on their heart, or they're not going to change their actions. And so
to live in balance with self is that they lower their standard as to what
they think is truthful by discounting their conscience. And Romans one talks about that
and uses the word suppression, that they suppress the truth in their unrighteousness.
And as John three says, that they basically know what's right to do,
but because their deeds are evil, they suppress that truth. And so the
presuppositionless knows all that from Scripture. So at the end of the day,
he says to the person suppressing his own conscience, he says, so who
should I believe you who say you don't believe in the Bible, or should
I believe in what the Bible says about you? Well, I choose the
latter. This is what presuppositional apologetics is all about. And in our Bible
study how to respond to scripture rejectors, we go into this in greater detail.
Ralph Drawlinger is always ungrateful to say, as my guest, the Bible
study is in depth, and this is just a few moments, if you
will. But when we talk a little bit more about the idea of conscience,
and you write in one of the segments called the testimony of conscience,
Yeah, so let me draw an analogy there a picture. Some years ago,
one of the American computer manufacturers used to deliver all their computers with their
own software inside, which was pretty much non overwritable, and so they were
sued in the European court for monopolistic reasons, and they were found to be
guilty of it because basically they were delivering a product that had their own conscience
inside of it. Well, in a sense, that's what God does with
every human being that he manufactures, as that he delivers the product with his
own circuitry or his own software, and that software is revelatory of the manufacture.
It's got his imprint on it. And you don't have to tell a
child to know what's right and wrong. You don't have to tell someone in
another culture or another time what is right or wrong they already know it because
it's written on their conscience by the manufacture. And so what the person who's
living apart from obedience to that conscience does is they begin to suppress. And
Romans One says they can suppress to the point of cauterizing the conscience. And
that English word is from the medical industry, but it comes from the Greek
New Testament, which is cotur rizo, which is where a person basically,
after denying their conscience for so long, they fry the chipboard and it no
longer works. And so we see that manifest in three evidences in Romans one,
where three times Paul says to the church at Rome and God gave them
over, and then he lists evidences each time of what that characteristically looks like.
And so we can know, especially where I minister in DC and the
political arena, and we don't want to have a judgmental spirit here, but
in these are infinitive verbs, meaning they're ongoing. We can know that over
a long time, if a person is a reprobate, if they're depraved,
if they have a coterized conscience, by these monikers of distinctiveness that are given
to us in scripture, and one is sexual perversion. Another is they actually
give they give license to things that are wrong, and they don't agree with
things that are right. Their conscience is so screwed up. And so we
as believers should be able to ascertain who the scripture rejectors are, and Scripture
says we shouldn't really negotiate with them, we should call them out and see
them for who they are. And unfortunately DC is full of them. Yeah,
and it's a real sad state. And so how you react to that
has a lot to do with if we're going to have a testimony in DC
or not, or in any state capital or in any city government where oftentimes
it's full of reprobation of people with coterized consciences. So, again not to
be redundant. Here in your study, which is in depth, you give
lots of examples of how we are to respond. And instead of going,
I wash my hands, reprobate mine, they're doomed. Maybe the first thing
that comes to your mind about your study about how do we respond other than
being biblically informed and being willing to confront lovingly, but how do we respond?
Well, that's part informed by Jesus in several ways. One is this
parable of the tears. Now in the parable of the terrors, Remember Frank,
he talks about how the terrors grow up with a wheat and you can't
distinguish them one from another, and he doesn't say to root them out.
So in one sense, Jesus is saying, during the church age, you're
going to have to live with these kinds of people. A Jude, the
Book of Jude, right before the Book of Revelation, is all about the
acts of the apostates. In note, the Acts of the Apostles is the
book of Acts. The acts of the Apostates is the Book of Jude.
And in the Book of Jude he gives you nine characteristics of an apostate.
What's the difference between an apostate and a reprobate and a tear? Not much.
You could say that an apostate is a tear in full bloom, and
a reprobate is you usually the manifest conscientiousness or lack thereof, of an apostate.
So they may have at one time, if not presently, acknowledge who
Jesus is, but they're only giving lip service. But Jesus also says in
regards to them, don't cast your pearls before swine. That's quite picturesque,
quite strong, quite in essence offensive language today in a woke America. But
suffice to say, there's this in answer to your question, a need to
call them out. Paul says, in the pastorals that were soldiers of Christ,
and he tells Timothy to war against them. He says, God hasn't
given us a spirit of fear, but of power and love and a sound
mind. And so I have to say to some guys in DC who either
colleagues or apostates, or tears or reprobates, and answer your question, how
do you deal with them? You've got to be strong and courageous and say,
thus, saith the Lord. You're acting in a way that is not
biblical. And don't tell me you don't believe in the Bible. You do.
It's just that you're suppressing it. And I'm here in love to help
you quit suppressing that which you know to be true. Amen. Here at
Capital Ministries, we are aggressively recruiting volunteer Bible teachers to start discipleship ministries in
the forty thousand local city and county governments across America. We provide the training,
the Bible studies, the credentialing, and the ongoing encouragement to those individuals
whom God is raising up for this overlooked but very important mission field. We
need strong men who can teach Bible studies to their city council members, Men
who are disciple makers. Is that you or possibly someone you know? Go
to capmen dot org and click on the ministry tab. Join a team of
thousands who want to change the trajectory of America. Again, go to capmen
dot org. As in Capitalministries, Who do you know who can be trained
to do this in your city? Caapmen dot org. This is the Capital
Ministries Weekend with President and Founder Ralph Drellinger. This is Frank Sontag. We've
spent a bit of time talking about a Bible study of many Bible studies on
our website caapmin dot org. This one is entitled how to respond to Scripture
Rejectors. One last question about the study, and then we'll spend a few
moments talking to our listeners about how they can get more involved with Capital Ministries.
It kind of goes like this. Ralph I've voiced your studies for years,
sitting across from you, listening to you hit bullet points, if you
will, of some of these studies. All sorts of things go through my
mind, and the primary one that I want to spend just a moment with
is this idea of loving confrontation, or even with the state of whether it's
our culture or the church, the idea of myself as a Christian. I'm
just supposed to leave it to God. I just love people and not rock
the boat. And you know he's going to come back on a horse and
all of that. And yet two full question is that really scripturally sound?
And or are we not to get involved in loving confrontation if you will,
well, I would say this in regards to that, Frank that in Romans
one, Paul says that which is known about God is evident within them,
for God bade it evident to them, for since the creation of the world
has invisible attributes his divine nature, his eternal power have been clearly seen through
that which is made, so that they are without excuse. In Chapter two,
verse fifteen, Paul goes on to say that the law is written on
their hearts, and it's evidenced by the fact that sometimes their conscience defies them
and sometimes it blesses them, which shows that each person is morally made and
knows right from wrong. And so, as a believer, the way we
deal with these kinds of people, which is I think the essence of your
question, is that we manifest the love of God in every relationship, and
so we lovingly appeal to them in a way that's gracious, in a way
that's merciful to say, friend, how can I help you quit suppressing that
which you already know to be true? And yes, you do believe in
the Bible, but I'm here to help you bring an en life in that
belief once again, because I think what you're doing is you're trying to suppress
because of your actions and to live in a way that you don't feel guilty
all the time. You're trying to reduce the information your conscience is providing to
you. And it's almost like nerves with your son. If he puts his
fingers on the stovetop, there's going to be a sensitivity to his brain,
his inner circuitry that says danger, danger, danger, And that's what the
conscience does with the form of guilt is that when you're violating physical truth,
your nerve center will tell you. When you're violating moral truth, your conscience
is going to alert you. And so quit frying your conscience because once you
do. Just like a kid, if he burns his fingertips and loses those
nerves, he'll never have that sensitivity. I have frostbite on my feet from
early mountaineer days being trapped out in snowstorms, and at seven feet it's pretty
easy to get frost bite because your toes are so far from your heart.
But I have that, and I'm always very sensitive when my grandchildren are coming
around and trying to stand on my feet because my toes don't sense it.
They could be totally pummeling my toes and I would not know it because they
have damaged nerve endings from pre frost bite. And that's how the brain is
with a cauterized conscience. And so, friend, I don't want you to
cauterize your conscience and not have it work for you the rest of your life.
Because we see people running around in culture today who do have a cauterized
conscience, and you wonder, how can they how can they do that?
Yeah, yeah, I digress for just ten seconds. I think of the
state of our country, and you talk to people, you try to have
conversations, and they don't want to even go there. Intelligent people and like,
yeah, you don't see the writing on the wall here. Can we
at least have a common so that to say this part of what I hear
you saying. And I want to transition into the idea of what Kapman is
doing with local government ministry leaders and urging the listeners to get involved. There's
a spirit of indifference or I'm not going to get involved, and yet I
know there are a lot of people listening to you right now thinking, wait,
this all really makes sense to me, and Ralph stirring something in me
that has been dormant or I choose not to use now, and yet there's
a part of me that wants to get involved. Two things there to your
question, Frank, God's revealed himself not only through conscience but through creation the
passage I mentioned, as well as special revelation, and so we need to
appeal to that in other people. We need to say, are not the
heavens declaring the glory of God? When you look up at night and see
all the stars, or to see the unfathomable size of the universe, is
to see the unfathomable size of the microscopic universe, the atomic structure of our
universe, and it all bespeaks of the glory of God. So we appeal
to that, and we appeal to the fact that revelation is written in their
heart, and we use the Bible, whether they reject it or not,
we always use it as our go to and then to the person that sees
all that we're talking about, and as mature in Christ, we want them
as a ministry leader in local government to teach these truths to other people in
their city council who might be headed toward a coterized conscience and need someone desperately
to help them from going there and to stop that addictive, sinful behavior that's
basically screwing up their whole life. They need your help, They need your
rescue. They need the impartation of the Holy Spirit through repentance for Christ to
come and dwell in their heart. We need an evangelist on the city council
campus, and so listeners might know of someone, if not them, who
could do that kind of ministry like I do in DC, and we're in
sixty foreign federal capitals, we're in over forty state capitals. But we got
forty thousand local governments in America. Virtually none of them have an outpost for
Christ with an intentional, biblically reliant disciple maker who's skilled in teaching God's precepts
for the listeners and the viewers that may resonate with what you just said,
but have a little trepidation like, well, i think I've got some skills,
but I'm lacking in some other areas. Speak to what Capital Ministry says
done where there's a curriculum, and yeah, you get credentialed and you've kind
of, in a sense not to overstate it, you've laid it out for
the listener and the viewer to get involved and walk them through it. Yeah,
we're not just selling a pipe dream here and say go at it,
thank you. We have a whole infrastructure at Catmen that can be discovered through
our website. You can apply to be a local government ministry leader. We'll
bring you into a three day training conference. We'll equip you with what's called
oaks in Office, which are seventy seven of my favorite in depth Bible studies,
not only exegetically deep, but with a custom application to the life of
a political leader. Will teach you how to teach those We'll mentor you.
We'll put you on a zoom call with your colleagues from throughout the world every
two weeks to be encouraged. So you'll be part of a team. Maybe
you're a past Bible teacher in your Sunday school class, or a pastor or
a businessman that's looking to go from success to significance. Maybe you should be
part of the cap Mean team and we'll be here to hold your hand through
the process and see that you have a viable, successful ministry in your local
government. Go to our website at CapMan dot org to find out more.
It's something that I know. I don't want to mistate the word passion.
It's overused, but this is something that's at the heart of not only evangelism,
but ministry and how we miss it in our country with local governments.
Yeah, we definitely need to have our best disciple makers in the midst of
our political leaders. There's something about that mission field that we as evangelicals have
overlooked and yet it's probably the most strategic important mission field out there. And
if we don't change the hearts of our lawmakers, we can't ever expect them
to carry our water and to make decisions that are biblically based. You can't
expect someone who rejects the author of Scripture to accept or enact the precepts of
his book. Just not going to happen. But we have to do is
something more foundational and fundamental, and that is win their heart to Christ and
teach them the word of God when they're in office or as they're going into
office, so that they think biblically. And if any man's in Christ,
he's a new creature. Behold, old things pass away, new things come.
I never have to tell someone in my Bible studies how to vote if
they're walking with the Lord obedience. Amen. Ralph Drewllinger is President and founder
of Capital Ministries. The Bible study we briefly touched upon today is entitled how
to respond to Scripture Rejectors. You can find that Bible study and all the
other ones at the website capmen dot org, caapmen dot org, capmin dot
org. And also, we're grateful and excited about this. The Capital Ministries
Weekend with Ralph Drollinger a weekly delve into a Bible study not only from Scripture,
but also addressing the state of the world in the country today. And
Ralph and I will be here each and every week. If we can serve
you in any way, please feel free to go to capmen dot Org Ralph
until next week. Thanks again and God bless you well. Thanks Frank,
it's always great to be with you. Thank you for listening to this the
Capital Ministries Weekend with Ralph Drollinger. Will you help support the ongoing work of
Capital Ministries Today Here at CAP we think it's time for a biblically based missions
strategy to change the trajectory of America. For the past fifty years we've worked
to change the laws of the land rather than the hearts of the lawmakers.
What's resulted is a country in continual decline. Rather than try and get politicians
who reject the author of Scripture to accept the precepts of his book, let
us instead place our best disciple makers and evangelists in the seats of governmental leaders
who start ministries in city halls, state capitals, and federal capitals in America
and throughout the world. Let us win and build public servants for Christ.
Go to Kaptman dot org today and give together. Let us make disciples of
Jesus Christ in the political arena here in America and throughout the world.