Third round the podcast with Alejandro Gaviría and Ricardo Silva Romero, a podcast of
the locutorio arroba the locutorio of that So, what is the crisis that we
forgot that we are species, the species evolve to us. I don'
t know in what minutes we forgot that we are animals, that we evolve,
that our base is that we are mammals, that we evolve. So,
right now the crisis is because the brain our mind came to a point
of development where it was already able to pull out the intelligence. Yes,
and artificial intelligence appears, that is to say we can get it right,
we have done it gradually, we start it with machines and it comes to
technology and it already says there is then and now what? If there are
already those who think for us Yes, hello, Ricardo, hello, Alejandro.
Today we have a special guest to the podcast. Third round. I
' m going to leave it this way for now dramatic song in its offensive
And to introduce a little what our conversation will be, I want to tell
something that I read three or four years ago and that I didn' t
want to investigate because I don' t want it to be true, And
it' s a phrase that looked at the etymological origin of the root or
word anthropods, and said that anthropods is means or can mean the animal that
looks at the sky. And that seemed cosmically poetic to me, and I
think it' s a good introduction to the conversation we' re going to
have today, because yes, it' s a wonderful conversation, because we
have with us a person dedicated to looking at the sky really that is Diana,
Diana Ramirez, who, to begin with, is someone that we in
our house adore. It' s part of the house and from Carolina Paschal
Inestos are aware that when Diana comes. We' ve done a lot of
projects. With Diana, we made a series of survival guides. After the
symbol of the pandemic of two thousand and twenty, we have spoken many things.
We met in the two thousand eighteen that we recorded a conversation similar to
this one about the novel that I released that year that was like losing everything,
which is a more or less astrological novel, follows the characters according to
their stars and plays with that, let' s say, and from there
we turned six years of friends and really everything that has taught us has been
transformative. His gaze from the sky is bright. Diana is an architect,
but I want her to tell us at what point, after being in all
the important firms and architects, in fact, a career that crosses the mathematics
of science with art, began to gain ground more and more astrology, the
fact of looking to heaven. Diana, welcome, well more, thank you,
how delightful to be here with you. Thank you for the invitation and
for the possibility of talking about a subject that, of course, is fascinating
to me, but which I think is also absolutely necessary at this time of
planetary crisis. We could say not the passion that awakens to look to the
sky from memory, I do not know whether it is ancestral or very deep,
that we have all human beings in that connection, that we have of
the development of the evolution of this species. Not that ability to remember that
we are part of and the possibility to establish as a coherence, but to
fill us as a peace of mind also when, when we look at the
sky, we realize that we are really doing part of an immense thing.
Immensa immense, So I think that gives us a lot of peace of mind
in the face of the responsibility that society has given us since Superman. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, super girl, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of
course, cosmic consciousness. Cosmic consciousness. That phrase looks beautiful. Alejandro,
as everything is connected, I have this kind of personal metaphysics that consists of
opening a book, more or less randomly and the night participating little our conversation.
He opened this book, which is a book by a philosopher and expert
in ancient religions called David Fedeler, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania,
and this paragraph appears that I want to read and has to do with what
we are talking about. Diana. Please, let' s go wherever we
go anywhere on earth. Since the beginning of time, people have always tried
to align themselves with the cosmos, the primary experience of humanity. The firmament
was alive and bullied with living things. The life of their celestial bodies also
sustains us. Without the sun, life would be completely extinguished. Without the
moon, it would be impossible to count the months without the stars, we
would lose the trail of the seasons under the sky brimming with life to the
traditional peoples maintained with the firmament a relationship much more intimate than the current inhabitants
of the modern city could imagine. Which is the subject we have disconnected from
looking at, the sky of our essence. And I think we lost the
script because we really got back together. Imagine the first men the show,
what the cinema was. The show really was to wait, the sunset and
bequeath to contemplate the sky. It is true, of course, millions and
millions of stars, fleeting stars, ones that shone brighter and brighter, and
for eight thousand years we began to draw with them to form figurines. Yeah,
then we formed. NASA has eighty- eight constellations. Constellations are the
imaginary figurines that we were making true to create a story. Then there in
heaven is our first library. Each constellation has a story, Each constellation is
a mythical and mystical account. Yes, then it really connected us to what
was above and that was left in our collective unconscious, because we, when
we look up, are always doing it to pray, to remember, to
beg. There is an almost biological connection, true from the body' s
response when it looks up, as it seeks clear orientation and from there our
relationship with the sky is born. We' re connecting and waiting like the
econo for the answer to what' s there, and there' s our
whole narrative. Also the first temples were toward the open. I think yes,
so they have to look at the underpants is your personal relationship with the
sky' s gaze. How it is, I mean, at what time
you were discovering that before weird there you started when you let yourself look at
the earth and started looking at the sky. That' s wonderful, because
I think there are a lot of people with me who feel very extraterrestrial,
like very lost on this unclear right plane. And what do I do here,
right now that before we start talking about the finance issue, it costs
us a lot of things that are completely alien to a sometimes even I say
what I do here. Help. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'
s a very mundane business to finance. Yes or it' s not heaven.
Yeah, yeah, which makes me disproportionate, that' s right,
that' s right. That narrows me down a lot to net us then
of course. I lived a little lost, a little not in my house.
They said they' d see if he' d come down in three
days of little girls. H yes, I mean, yes, completely lost.
I' m from country family. The tenth, the tenth, daughter,
imagine the number of brothers and hear Diana tell her to land the good
sky. I can talk ten hours about everything he told me. Yes,
and in life I found astrology and it was that it was more or less,
no, because I was about twenty- four years old. Yes,
I remember that reading twenty- four or twenty- five years, that first
reading. I said wow, there' s something that explains to me,
that' s what helps me understand and someone clears my astrology teacher that after
my teacher many years yes, and also taught me many things the teacher told
me it' s called Nahil Cortes. She' s a wonderful teacher because
she also went to meditate on me. He taught him made- believe mens
good taught me. He taught me as something else, because, well,
obviously one is created in the world of mathematics, of reason, of logic
and of intellectuality. At least a little bit of respect. It was true.
We are formed in a cultured way. We could say true. We
know about stories, we know about mathematics, we know about geography, we
know about many things, not sure, but sometimes there are gaps there that
information doesn' t fill. But also in architecture there is a search for
harmony, to adapt, to judge the world clearly that it does be part
of that cosmos that in the background is a fact. I think there'
s an aesthetic attention that seems to me like it' s mail all of
a sudden. It is a greater art also proportions. I never learned to
draw and always though I studied civil engineering and touched it was a ro.
I always had from the outside an admiration for architecture, but that was a
deficiency TiVo that I did not know how to do. I believe that everyone
is really serious architect and it is the discussion that we had pleasures, serial
architects, that we all know what we want and the relationship we have with
space. So we don' t know how to translate it, but architecture
is each one' s relationship with space. Yes, of course, when
you sit down to talk to a person that you want in your house because
there is a list of things that are what she needs space to provide according
to who is unclear and I, in my path I managed to understand those
two things, because I always fought as between architecture and astrology and said,
but here there is a fabric really, because architecture is helping me to find
balance of harmony, since the space responds to me and in some way,
the search for astrology is also that. Let' s say from a much
deeper or more human thing. Yes, I don' t know if human
is the word, but from another place, let' s say from another
intimate look, more, yes, deeper here more probe perhaps and more architecture
astrology also allows one to find those balances. Right, that structure. Let
us say from the basis of aesthetics, which is the perfect balance, the
divine proportion of which the Greeks spoke. It is true that neither very,
nor so much in the just proportion of the just measure, which is what
astrology allows us in the encounter and understanding of who we are within this great
cosmos. Right, that' s why we look back at the sky.
I see a coherence because of course, older accounts that are known are temples
and temples that wanted to reproduce the Universe. They' re little maps of
the universe. Of course it' s interesting. I want to look back
at the sky and I want to read a fragment of a poem I once
read by chance, from rave Bradbury Great, of which Borges said he is
a melancholy poet. Maybe there' s some melancholy. Looking up at the
sky. No, of course, it' s a joy, but it
' s a different joy. In that connection, perhaps there were birds that
some nights felt that orion rose and tuned the flight looking south and then wondered
rhetorically. Ray Bradbury. Yes, but seeing and actually knowing and saying not
only human beings. He says it' s no animal. He has seen
the stars and ends the poem by saying the following. For not us,
the gifts Aldebarán Centauro, our neighbor Mars, wake up. God says,
look at that go for them the stars, or God, thank you very
much. The lucky stars, pretty, pretty, are repair, very nice.
It' s called. They' ve never seen the stars and the
other animals you' ve overreacted today Someone will say it' s a little
anthropocentric, but it always seemed nice to me. It has to do with
that idea. Again the animal that looks at the sky, for now that
we were talking about anthropocentric ann, now that we were talking about anthropocentric ann.
I was thinking that scientists in these months have been arguing to death if
this earth age is called the anthropocene, which is a very interesting thing.
The idea that the presence of the human species has already affected the earth so
much has changed it so much that it has even changed its climates, its
geographies. And it can be said that there is a physical agent on the
earth of the human species that is transforming it and it is if it has
modified it in a profound way. Logically accurate geologically, instead of inhabiting and
caring for it, it has been exploiting it and using it as much as
possible. Let' s say and you have dedicated yourself to this reading of
heaven right at this moment of exploitation, of the calysis of what Alexander has
called in a series of books very much that are almost trilogy the crisis as
of the madness of these times. Yeah, crazy like that. He compared
it in the book about Stephanes Bke, postwar, war, World War II,
for example. You are right in this moment of the earth and the
species dedicated to this and what you see There astrologically where you do wonders,
exactly, because we had talked when we met Ricardo about the crisis we were
entering. Not then were we talking about two thousand eighteen and that year also
dark in two thousand sixteen, eight hundred that you were in your novel,
in the novel yes and that, therefore, the conclusion I told you in
the two thousand eighteen do not wait. Two thousand and twenty, that'
s how the conversation ends. The two thousand twenty ends, the conversation doesn
' t end. Do not pray, hour one and then we began to
make our guides year after year, and Diana all the time said prosperity the
two thousand twenty- four, exactly bisiests, two thousand sixteen, two thousand
twenty, two thousand twenty- four and clear human formation. Then let'
s get back to it. Try summarizing it. Yes, then we are
disconnected from the sky and are at this moment at a great crossroads. Not
to say anything else. Let' s say that we are in this sense
as a species, why we were quoting the species as such created the way
to survive on earth, but at this time it became endemic. We are
already more of those who fit, more or less, no yes, and
it was the development as of conquest, conquest and position ourselves and dominate the
land and the land said they know no more, and the moment of crisis
was this true. Then, on the one hand, the sky is showing
the moment of crisis. We were talking about the twenty to twenty- four
there is a great transition, because the transformation was being seen in heaven.
There are three transpersonal planets that are Pluto, Neptune and Uranus, which are
said to be personal, because we never saw them until there were telescopes like
that. That to Saturn we see yes the suret that are the first formations,
as Ahorita Alejandro quoted, speaking of the temples, the surets are the
first pyramids. Let' s say the first. It is called yes from
where it was observed, and each had the name of a planet and it
was the nine stories that each planet had that were observable to the naked eye.
Or then those transpersonals that we discovered later with telescopes are planets that move
very slowly. So what we say they operate in the collective psyches for all
include as much alcohol to the collective to the species as species. Then there
was a very clear sample of a planetary moment in the two thousand twenty that
was to have repercussions to these two thousand twenty- four, because in the
two thousand twenty- five? There is another new alignment that is clearly speaking
to us as a new beginning. Yeah, so, two thousand twenty-
five, two thousand twenty- five, the real crisis is this two thousand
twenty- four? Yeah, that' s how he' s showing us.
The Holy One tests the land of the critical moment we are in.
But because it' s critical and this is what I think is most important,
because if we don' t stay as in the phenomenological and leave it
up there, we have to put it down right here, then what'
s the crisis. That we forgot that we are species, species evolve to
us. I don' t know in what minutes we forgot, that we
are animals that evolve, that our base is that we are mammals, that
we evolve. So, right now the crisis is because the brain our mind
came to a point of development where it was already able to pull out the
intelligence. Yes, and artificial intelligence appears, that is to say we can
get it right, we have done it gradually, we start it with machines
and technology arrives and I know it then says there is and now what.
If there are already those who think for us, yes, of course then
all that. We' re in front of a jump. Yeah, well,
the vagina thinks we' re gonna do intelligence is no longer the problem.
It' s not the problem. The jump is that then ah we
get to the peak because we get it out and someone does it the machine
does it for us, that is almost like there is a technological development yes,
powerful, yes, and then where is the other, what is the
human, the link, the one that connects us and allows us to live
on this planet with the consciousness of the transformation of being as human. Yeah,
so that little bit is our turn to get ahead of us again and
open up to what follows. What follows is that quantum leap that the brain
is making in terms of evolution, evolution that is to begin to mature as
an essence. Yeah, and that' s why we have to connect with
the emotional, because if we don' t jump, we' re still
predators. Of course and astrology is helping us understand that the brain continues to
develop and that we have matured a lot in technology, but not in the
brain to link. I quote an author who is wonderful who is called Eugenio
Caruti and I recommend it to everyone. He speaks of planetary intelligence and he
speaks of all these subjects, of bonding, because we, in order to
be able to bond, are social, but in order to be able to
bond we have and we have to allow ourselves to be transformed, because he
always speaks as the moment in which we are our mind, has an object,
a subject and an object each that we make a distinction. Everything outside
of us is objectivized and then that is very well with machines and processes,
but not with people. We cannot objectivize, true, because when we become
object, then we want the other one to be and he cites a guess
at a conference. That' s when we talk about the kids. My
son and I want a project for my son. Yes, and then I
imagine that it must be and must comply with that design. And really where
we' re going. It is to understand that the bond or relationship has
to transform us all and grace is to allow us to be transformed from the
relationship we create with others. That' s where he has to jump.
The brain has to go, but the species is wrong I have about this
critical moment with what we were calling it is there astrologically, but also looking
inward, towards worldly affairs as two intuitions. The first is, in that
evolution of the human being, the growth of the brain, especially the prefrontal
lobes, was very fast from an evolutionary point of view, the thing that
began to grow surely by mechanisms of mutual reinforcement and that somehow prefigures the fact
that we are not going to make a species that lasts a long time.
We are not a fossil species like the shark, which has been doing the
same thing for seventy million years. So that rapid growth is as if we
were not fleeting to evolutionary, we evolved to where their faith and the other
this coincidence that I sometimes see it as if a simulator had done it perversely,
and that is that the emergence of the artificial intelligence of that great brain,
the species turned into a single large brain, coincides with the crisis of
chemistry. That did not have to coincide, that is, the peak of
the climate emergency, coinciding with the moment when the species connected in one,
in one brain, and why it was so, why it was tragically how
much this was getting good as the end foreshadowed. If the end is foreshadowed,
one might also think because there is a transformation, yes, one epoch
and that other. And from the literary point of view, it seems to
me to be very interesting. I think we' ve talked about it before,
but I think it' s worth the feeling that this has been epic.
It has been like epic poems, that is, it has been about
the conquest of places, about the discovery of continents, about the domination of
other communities, the subjugation of other communities prevalent over others. The domain.
We saw about nature. Nature, control, control over winning rottenness, situations,
we continue in wars, we continue in the domain of the other place
and one would have the feeling that evolution in that case would be towards the
dramatic, which is transformation. Let yourself be transformed. All drama is about
the transformation of a character and I think that would be what is being proposed
or what can be read in the sky also a transformation towards the dramatic,
which is the transformation of everyone and the search to inhabit the world rather than
dominate it, rather than exploit it more. In that sense, yes,
although the drama always because I' d like to see it more like crazy
it consecrates her. Yeah,' cause the drema does have it there like
a deep back thing. Yeah, and my daughter gave me away these days.
One word that I love, that Mommy told me, is that the
point is that we are very transcendental. We all looked for pin object and
forgot the immanence. Yes, yes, yes, the ability to be,
to enjoy, to enjoy, to contemplate, to help someone feel it,
to give it as an example, to contemplate is incapable. Yes, yes,
we are unable to do so. Then, of course, what we
' re going to transform. But it doesn' t have to be heartbreaking.
I think we are going with the amazement of what we were talking about
these days. As you hear, let' s find out, and that
' s what astrology invites a lot of us to do. Listen, every
day there' s a step to what life is showing where we' re
going without it being a script, because then it' s not new?
Yeah, he' s already in the head, so what' s new?
There' s no chance. I think rich that by different ways,
we had reached a conclusion in an earlier episode. Third round about this necessary
movement towards comedy. Toward comedy yes, yes, it is that comedy is
part of the drama. It is from days we have made it a little
something from another point of view, not astrological, not looking to heaven,
but to books or some, we had reached the same conclusion that seems interesting
to me. That' s also comedy. Yeah. Of course there is
also this word harmony, which is how to fit also to regain that connection
with the universe, to find balance. For me, this cupic consciousness we
' ve talked about has not been a subject, as it was for you
all of a sudden, Diana, as it has been since very old.
For me it has been more recent, but perhaps Carl Sagan, as the
first cosmic poet that thought I was interested, but in the last decade perhaps
I have also had is yes as I do not know impetu or desire to
connect the book of David Faedeller, which and now is called restoring the soul
of the world. Connections to a little book by Nicaraguan poet Ernesto Cardenal,
which is called a public booklet, not a big book. I like to
open it on any page and it' s a celebration of that literally fitting
in. You have oracles in literature, they' re oricles. That'
s an oracle. I open a book anywhere and that phrase resonates with me
and generates me as a coherence for the day. Not because where we are
going is to integrate that quest for balance at last is called peace. I
think I and we are very, very, very alienated to be always looking
for happiness and to be good, well, and that' s absurd.
It' s different happiness we' re at. One can be at peace.
True, in order to live peace it has much to do with being
in presence. And that' s because I' m here, here I
' m realizing what' s happening to me and this is where I have
the chance to transform the right moment and make decisions. The e- Cartole
who talks so much about here and the time. Yeah, but if you
look at it, let' s say since I think it' s nice
to connect it. I think all searches like that are the most mathematical,
the most transcendental or the most intellectual. Always on the way back to the
deep search for the connection. Yes, with something else, because we have
not been able to explain ourselves or fill ourselves only with understanding, with knowledge.
So, you talk about sagam but it' s reading books of famous
Einstein phrases, that is, the philosof the deep gum that he had.
It is a magical thing of connection as well and mystery. The celebration of
the Mister says that one comes to God by heart or mind. Yeah,
but look at all these scientists the more they get in, the more the
mystery is revealed to him. Let' s say the mind, they collide
with the barrier of mystery and mouth with mystery and there appears a mystical theme.
It' s interesting, yes, it' s really what' s
going to rescue us as human beings. Yeah, there' s that search.
Now I was talking about that step, like that bridge, from the
epic to the dramatic comic, let' s say, but I remember we
talked about the twist, or the shift or the path of a masculine thought,
a feminine thought at this moment of transformation. That' s super pretty,
' cause we' re back on the subject of heaven. We have
understood the earth that rotates, rotation and translation. Yes, yes, and
we forgot the precession of the equinoxes, which is a movement that has the
earth as a trumpet around the ring of the twelve constellations. That movement takes
twenty- six thousand years, so it is roughly two thousand and a peak
of years. And that' s what we call the famous eras. This
civilization began in the era of Leo over there, eight thousand and eleven thousand
years ago. So, if that lasts thirteen twenty- six thousand years,
we' re literally getting in half and that' s why I read,
the opposite, that aquarium, half of us. This civilization eight ten thousand
or so is born with history, with the writing, exactly. So writing
is mind not language has to be expressed. What I think has to be
shaped. So there' s a development from the hemisphere, from male energy.
So, that' s why there' s knowledge, it' s
male energy, making that male energy, producing certain development. That male energy
is true, so it' s like a great exhalation the 13 thousand years
that follow. You need to inhale, because it' s a circle.
Life is completed, you live in circles. Not good, in spirals.
No. So these next thirteen zero years is inhaling and that inhalation necessarily rescues
the female energy. The female energy is the one that allows us to wait.
We speak of the female male as the magnet, clear positive and deny
it happens in all genres, that energy. We have why we are energies,
we are polarity, we are all made of that yes, of course,
then, this feminine energy is the one that allows us to expect,
contain, embrace, contemplate and has much development, its potentiality is in intuition,
which is knowledge, wisdom, which has no logic, because it is
when the intellect merges with instinct, with our biological being, that fusion is
going to be intuitive to us. The development of this humanity has to go
towards intuition, which is understanding, if the connection all that allows us to
be connected and understand that, the finite thing is that we are the temporal
ones and the powerful thing is that we are from the moment we are,
in the contemplation of the moment, from the allowing life to pass us.
We, in fact, are vehicles. That' s what astrology learns.
We' re a vehicle that spends its life. We are energy and life
is energy. So we' re just transporters. The vehicle of life itself,
which is what transforms us then when one becomes aware that life passes through
one, for that cart lasts nothing, but we are singers of life.
Yeah, that' s female energy. From a very materialistic, complex point
of view. Richard Dowkins wrote this book called The Selfish Gene, and he
had the same view of life as all the sordid vehicles that we simply carry
life. In this case the genetic code looked at it, of course,
but they were super- vehicles that have that selfish gene that function. If
the selfish gene was and we' re not vehicles, I know if we
just call it vehicles, I' d take that load off if we lived
it consciously. It is true and also as in altecería. If I am
aware that I am the bearer of life, true I am the Stutchell Drexler,
one of my favorite singers, says a life what a valley sun says.
Yeah, it' s worth a life a sun A life what a
sun is worth? Okay? A life what a sun A life what a
sun is worth? It is the awareness of the value of life and of
being us, as bearers of life, I believe that there would be if
one separated there respect and truth and tolerance and everything that changes from being I
am the bearer of life and what has had to reverse the universe so that
one exists not how it would change the thing. It also seems to me
that there is one here that has not been for a long time, but
a certain convergence between these looks and the same scientific look that has become more
holistic, to understand the universe almost as a living, dynamic and changing being,
as an organism, a clear organization and all this vision knows with what
words I stay, with visions the first step and the other, that is,
I will practice it at this moment, of inhaling us how I can
say. It is true that it makes us, through demos, the only
possibility of being transformed is that things will cross us. And if not,
then, to see to remain equal, it is not like wanting to perpetuate
a photolo and there is nothing more real than transformation. Grasí is Diana.
Thank you very much, thank you very much for this excellent conversation. Yes,
happy, happy, happy, thank you very much, not me more,
but having been up to, that or completely welcome to us. Thank
you very much. Is it clear that we can all write? It is
clear that we can all, with luck and vocation, devote ourselves to the
craft of writing. But last I think that not only can we, but
we must write. Writing is the best therapy we have at hand. Welcome
to a fictional audio course on how and why to write. Take the audiocourse
of fictional writing in the locutorio com slash fictionario with Ricardo Silva Romero. Always
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