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What is kracklac him Felt, Thermine, Pierre Efforts, I am Dan Valley,

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free you a very quick intro before
we get into a fantastic podcast with

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the one and only mister Grant Hughes. We had to call an audible mid

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podcast. We still gave you close
to I think it was like about a

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buck an hour and forty something minutes
of podcasting, but we had to punt

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on. We normally record two podcasts
at once and then do stat padding.

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Grant was in some back pain,
so we will have this hour and forty

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minute podcast where were bouncing around the
NBA talking Nick's Raptors, Hawks, Sons,

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Clippers, Bulls, a lot of
interesting teams, so we go in

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depth on those, and then on
Monday, I'll have a shorter episode up

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for Grant and I will actually have
some just stat spatting, stat padding specific

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stuff. We just want to give
you a note. We didn't get too

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guests of players this week. We
will get to those next week, not

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for the Monday episode. Just again, Grant was in back pain. We

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didn't want to go through the second
episode and although he did offer, but

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I just wanted to kind of shuffle
him off and hopefully he can heal up.

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So yeah, with that, let's
just get into some nice hoops talk

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with the one and only the Thermonuclear
AF, the surgified fantabulous mister Grant.

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What is krack alacin, fellow Thermo
Nuclear afers, I am Dan Favalley coming

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at you with my certified fantabulous Thermo
Nuclear AF hobbled AF as well co host

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mister Grant Hughes, who is powering
through some back pain with us today and

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so I very much appreciate it.
We're here to just bounce around the league,

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talk about some teams, some trending
matters, rumors, news, what

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have you. Before we get started, please remember to subscribe if you have

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not already, hit the sub button
on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, wherever

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else you get your podcasts. I've
seen that some of you have left ratings

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and reviews shut out be Rich on
Apple. I really appreciate it. Continue

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to throw those ratings and reviews on
Apple and ratings on Spotify. They do

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help us move up the charts a
ton. And if you've done those things,

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telp people about us. Promote our
tweets or that we're putting on or

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that I'm putting on Blue Sky like
the promotions. Share those. Tell people,

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text your friends, family members,
enemies, acquaintances, coworkers. Just

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tell them about the hardwoodknoxs podcast.
We really appreciate it. And follow us

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on the socials. They are all
on your screen or in the podcast description.

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And finally join the Discord. That's
the best way to get involved with

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the mailbag. Have some discussions you
can hear about, you know, maybe

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Grant's back pain. You could see
a hard Knox carpet in my office if

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you join the discord. Just lots
that you could hear about. What is

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Dan gonna eat when he's allowed to
eat again? You might even see pictures

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of what Dan's gonna eat if you're
in the discord. There's lots of stuff

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going on in Discord, not the
least of which, actually the most important

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of which is all our loyal listeners, for whom we are forever grateful.

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They drive those discussions in there,
and you guys are all Honestly, I'm

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a smarter host for having read and
listen to some of the rebukes that people

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have to some of our opinions.
So get in Discord and yell at us

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and maybe make Grant and I a
little bit smarter, or at least myself.

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Grant, how are you doing?
I see I can't tell you're smiling

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or grimacing. It's a little bit
of both. I am standing up.

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This is the first in the Hardwood
Knox legacy a stand up podcast, because

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we're a couple. I think of
us as I think of you as a

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stand up guy. I'm literally standing
up because I have only stood or laid

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down today other than I sat down
to eat dinner. Hurt my back.

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But I do think it gives a
nice perspective anyone that's watching because normally the

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shelf behind me you only see one
level, and now you can see the

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Draymond bobblehead behind me. I don't
know how well that's going to age,

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but it's still up for now.
I'm gonna I didn't put that in our

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outline today was the whole let's just
start here. Sure, What did you

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make of the whole Draymond comments from
I think it was Kerr that said we're

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giving him his space and he's giving
us our space. I saw some people

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say why would we want to hear
about this non update and just the fact

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that Anthony Slater included in his piece, and he has a very good pulse

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on that Warriors team. I was
kind of like, like, is there

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what's going on here? I'm not
sure how much that changes about what I

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think of the whole situation, Like
what you know what I mean, like

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what what? What are you like
what piqued your interest about it specifically?

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Like maybe there's like maybe indefinite suspension
means like we're looking at ways to kind

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of like separate or is that the
Yeah, because we just went from our

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last podcast we recorded said that he
could return to the team by this past

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weekend that's coming on, and it
sounds like he's not even around the team,

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Like we're not about just playing engagement
now, it sounds like he's not

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even around the team. Yeah,
I just I don't know. I think

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from the start of it, we've
definitely talked about this. How I just

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know I'm kind of cynical and skeptical
about the reason this is an indefinite suspension,

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the reason everybody is saying the things
that they are, you know,

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how seriously really is Draymond taking it? How? You know? Really this

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is the last This is the line
that can't be crossed that like, is

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it is it? I just I
don't know. I just feel like the

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goal is going to be too again
admitting the cynicism involved in this take,

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but like the goal is just kind
of to keep him away for as long

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as is necessary for anyone that might
complain about him coming back too soon to

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be satisfied. Whether that's like the
League office, whether that's Adam Silver,

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whether that's like broader public perception.
That's just kind of how I looked at

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it because it feels like that's what
happened with John Morant both times. It

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just feels like what this is because
I don't know, like and maybe maybe

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that's dead wrong. Maybe this is
a situation where like he's seriously doing some

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introspection and there's like actual, you
know, real steps being taken to I

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don't know, stop hitting use of
nurkic like whatever, whatever whatever it is

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that's causing that Rudy Gobert. Yeah, maybe he's trying to address that.

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I don't know, but that that
didn't like, I guess that didn't set

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off any alarm bells for me.
Okay, I could see how it would,

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but yeah, I just I just
kind of think I mean maybe the

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you know, because really the more
interesting question in all of this is,

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like, I don't know. All
along, they've said Steve Curse says it

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every time something like this happens,
Well, we need him to win,

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you know, That's just what it
is. Like, I don't know,

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do we do Is that something we
should scrutinize as to whether that's really the

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case anymore? I don't know like
that. The bigger picture is like this

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guy's got four more years on his
deal, Like how or what's what?

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What? What's that look like?
I don't know. Okay, I was

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just k I just saw that.
I was like, oh, that's we

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went from he might be coming back
tomorrow to we're giving him, we're giving

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each other space. It was just
it was just weird to me. We

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had to go to Lebron's birthday party. I did see that. Oh okay,

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so he's so you weren't around,
and we haven't talked since we we've

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talked, you haven't podcasted since the
og Ananobi trade. Raptors send og Anobi

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malchai ful impression to Chua to the
Knicks for RJ. Barrett Emmanuel quickly and

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Detroit's twenty twenty four second round pick. What did I've given my thoughts basically

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twice over on this deal. We've
seen a couple of games while we're in

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the middle of Bulls Knicks are playing
as we record this, but we've seen

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one full game from Ojananobi. We've
seen a couple with the new crew in

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Toronto. What have you just made? What did you make of that entire

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trade? I mean, yeah,
so just going through it almost chronologically,

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my very very first thought was,
oh, this feels like an underwhelming return

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for the Raptors, because I think
I was still anchored to this idea,

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you know, the four first So
the Raptors are getting offers, like,

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you know, tons of draft equity
for Anonobian and we played into this too,

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and everybody did of like, you
know, Ananobe was the name I

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guarantee we mentioned most as a trade
candidate who would fit in destinations X,

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Y Z, and like Hammer,
Chris Bruschet was everywhere, right, Yeah,

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you know, if you can't get
Antonobe, it's Bouchet. But it's

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just like so the first thought was, oh, that's like quickly embarrassed basically

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like that that's all. And you
know, there's a pick in there,

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sure, But then like the second
thought was like, well, we overvalued

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og and we need to really rethink, like what this player type is actually

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worth because not a star but fits
everywhere, defends makes open threes. Like

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we sort of like we lionize that
player type because it's so easy to say,

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well, he fits everywhere. And
I wonder if the notion that someone

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as good as Anonobe is at his
job is worth is going to ever be

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worth the three first or whatever.
Now, like impending free agency changes a

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lot, Like that's the variable that
can't be ignored. But I wonder if

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we need to recalibrate a little bit. I'm like, what it would cost

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to get someone like that the next
time we're in a situation that's similar to

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this. But then ultimately it kind
of I think it makes sense for both

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teams. I know that's not like
an exciting take, but like quickly really

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should thrive in Toronto. Like he's
I think he's a perfect fit for Scotty

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Barnes. I'm sure everybody has said
that, but like that's a pairing that

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makes all the sense in the world
to me, and Antonob is gonna be

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I think exactly what the Knicks need
at that position, So like, I

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think I like it for both teams, even though at first, I will

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say it seemed like, oh my
god, that's all it took for the

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Knicks to get anonob but I kind
of the more I thought about it,

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I kind of walked a little bit
back from that. But uh, yeah,

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I think I guess. I guess
I'm curious too, Like what that

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what the next contract looks like for
him? There's all this talk of like,

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well because of the CIA connection,
and there's maybe there's a willingness to

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take less. I don't know,
but yeah, I guess, like my

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only question is, and maybe you
touched on this, but like what do

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you think this says specifically, not
getting a package of like a million picks

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says about Toronto's kind of longer term
plans, because like quickly is gonna be

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good now? Barrett is gonna be
what he is now and could be better.

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I don't know. I want to
say he's good now, but like,

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does that mean that a Siakam trade
is gonna be like we want three

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actual players for him and not like
dead salary and you know, three firsts

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or whatever. And then just like
how good does Toronto want to be?

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How soon? Like that, it
just it makes the raptors like harder to

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predict. I guess going forward in
like a pretty interesting way to me,

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because maybe they just kind of want
to be like, we're not gonna bottom

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out, We're just gonna try to
be at least decent with upside and see

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how that works for us, you
know. I so you mentioned something that's

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interesting. You're right that maybe we
romanticize the og annobe archetype so long as

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they are making below market value.
Because think about the context of how we

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view Jeremy Grant changed as soon as
he signed his next deal or even after

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he signed the deal that first deal
after leaving the Nuggets, and it took

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a while before people thought that he
was either properly paid or still still underpaid.

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We're going through it with McHale Bridges
right now. What's gonna happen with

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his next deal? Or how are
we gonna feel about Jalen Brunton if he

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signs an extension this offseason and you
see that that number is going to just

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balloon. And so we tend to
romanticize players in terms of pick value,

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trade value, and just overall value
because they're underpaid. We see all the

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time with when the rookie deals become
those rookie extensions. I think Tyre's max

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he's gonna go through it this summer, and we've seen Tyler hero go through

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it. The Raptors notion is the
one that I focused on and I just

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can't I've seen takes from all over
that say, oh, well, now

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Sakam's gonna stay. He'll probably sign
a four year extension, or now this

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guarantees that they'll move him. I
don't know which side of the fence I

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land on. I'd probably predict I
said this the other day that they will

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move him. But the fact that
they did not go the pick route,

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and I assume that the pick route, and it might have even been available

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from New York, but I assume
the pick route in some form was available.

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It's the two things that I question. I think it one does prove

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that even if they trade Siakam,
they're going to be interested in competing now

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because the path to like bottoming out, bottoming out is now a lot harder

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if you view quickly in Barnes the
core, because they're always they should be

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solid then or at least not solid. But you know, the thirteen and

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nineteen team rather than like the two
and twenty one team, Right, you

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can't get that bad with those two
guys there. And and I also think,

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like I wonder if I don't.
I honestly don't believe they were afraid

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of his next contract so much as
he just didn't want to be on the

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Raptors anymore. And that's why,
because I don't think the Knicks give up

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quickly if they believe that Ananobe is
gonna cost forty million dollars a year.

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Like my guess would be if we
had to say is he gonna get it?

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Would not I'll frame it this way. I would not be shocked if

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he gets less than the equivalent of
the twenty five percent max per year.

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So it's like thirty four million instead
of thirty five and a half, let

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00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:46,799
alone forty two point six. Yeah, well, so what is I'm just

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00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,840
thinking of like recent comps like what's
Jaden McDaniel's got four for like one twenty

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00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,159
something or one thirty something, I
can't remember now. And I think even

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00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,639
look, you have to look at
because I've always skewed towards I think o

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Jannoby's a great fit for the new
and a very good basketball player. But

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I've said on this podcast, I
think he is overrated because of the limitations

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that he has on the offensive end. And when you look at Devin Vessel

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00:13:09,799 --> 00:13:13,679
like that, like that number of
what was that four in what was his

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contract forward? I think he was
in the one thirties two or something like

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that. Yeah, like that player
is more dynamic five years, one hundred

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and forty six that player. So
that's an average annual value. And granted

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he's not eligible over the same max
that Nobe is, but that that average

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annual value checked in under thirty for
him, and he's a more dynamic player

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on offense, and I do think
that offense is more valuable than defense as

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dynamic as og Anobi is. And
I guess you can look at and say,

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okay, well Jeremy Grant got the
five and one sixty. That's even

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fine, though, like that's less
than the like five sixty is not even

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the twenty five percent max right now. So I firmly believe he's gonna come

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cheaper that people are just assuming he's
gonna cost like two hundred million dollars or

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the four year max of one ninety
one ninety two. The Raptors are the

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team, although I do have some
thoughts on the Knicks because woj, I

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don't know if you so, we'll
get them in a second. But I

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don't know what. I don't have
a feel for what the Raptors are doing

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now, other than I think that
they're not trying to tread water so much

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as like retool and recalibrate and reorient
on the fly. And I don't know

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how that pans out because I don't
know, you know, Mark Stein mentions

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like Memphis and Dallas might sneak into
the sweepstakes, and I love Memphis for

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Siakam just out of the curiosity of
seeing him with Triple J their package,

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though it would have to be all
picks and like some of these weird salaries.

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So I just don't know. I
think I know what the Raptors are

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trying to do, I don't understand
how they're successfully going to do it.

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Yeah, Like, what is the
team that's coming in? Is it Atlanta?

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Another team that we're gonna talk about, Like are they gonna come in

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with the Godfather offer of Well,
we got Jalen Johnson and we got bo

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Don macdonovich, and I just I'm
so that's where I matter with the Rappers.

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I think they're trying to reorient on
the fly, and I think it's

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gonna be unsuccessful. Yeah, I
just I don't know. I I it's

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it's so it's interesting to me,
at least for the for the simple reason

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that this is not the package that
anyone really thought Anonobe was gonna bring back.

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Well, it does come down to
sorry to interrupt there, but I've

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grappled with this and I really want
to know your thoughts. Does it actually

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just come down to how much or
how they viewed RJ Barrett? And quickly,

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because it's everyone knows Quickly's good.
But the two things are, well,

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he's about to get paid and how
does he fare when he is actually

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a starter? And I think the
latter question is not that big of a

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deal because we saw him close games
for the Knicks, not often, but

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he also filled in as a starter
a bunch last year, and so like,

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this is someone who could the playoff
questions are fine, but that was

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also his first taste of it.
So like, but like the RJ Barrett

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stuff, is I view him as
a net negative deal at the moment the

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Raptors seemed to treat him in this
trade. If you told if I told

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00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:03,919
you that they view RJ. Barrett
as a net positive or a net neutral

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asset, does that change how you
look at their return it, Well,

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it has to, I think,
yeah, I you know, we've talked

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about Barrett a lot. I think
there are a lot of valid criticisms,

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just the scoring inefficiency and just but
I think too, like it seemed pretty

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00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:23,600
clear that the Knicks were just kind
of the wrong team for him to be

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00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:27,600
successful on for what his skill set
is, and so maybe that's different in

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Toronto. That's like, I'm not
sure there's a ton of reason to believe

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00:16:32,639 --> 00:16:36,240
that's the case. Like the hometown
angle is like not, it's just like

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a zero factor for me. That
doesn't mean anything other than like maybe that

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he'll be like well liked and maybe
get along term page. It's like cool

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to see him talk about it.
It's cool, but it's not like,

258
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but it can't affect your evaluation of
like what Toronto got. I think I

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00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:56,799
guess it's possible just given his youth, given you know, the change of

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00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,240
scenery, not just for change of
scenery's sake, but like maybe thing will

261
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,039
be a little different for him in
Toronto, although like the more every time

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I start to talk myself into that, it's like, well, he's still

263
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a guy that just like bowls his
way to the basket, and like that's

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that's when he's best. And like, I don't know how much should he

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have the ball if Quickly is running
the team and Scottie Barnes is kind of

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the guy that's doing that's the same
kind of thing as you would have Barrett

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doing. So I'm interested in the
fit. I think there's a I guess

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I sort of view him as a
net negative too, but I think there's

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a chance that could change and then
maybe this looks better for the Raptors.

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A lot of rides on Quickly being
like basically becoming his per thirty six numbers,

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you know, like a lot is
a lot rides on that, especially

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that he could be the best player
in this deal, which is not outlandish,

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but he's risky. Yeah that's possible. I mean, like you know,

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Anonobe, I think the idea behind
getting him for the Knicks is like

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he has a chance to be a
necessary piece on a team that has to

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win lots of playoff rounds because you
just need that type of guy to guard

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Jason Tatum or whatever whoever you end
up with that like across several rounds.

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Like he's the anenobe type is like
a necessary component pretty much of a team

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that is trying to win a championship. That's not really true of quickly,

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I don't think or bear itt so
like it's kind of a you know,

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a weird way. It's kind of
a flex by the Knicks, Like it's

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easy to just go get a guy
that's good and fits and you know,

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has is represented by your top executive
son, Like that's easy. But it

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00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:32,240
is kind of it's interesting to me
that like this is a he's kind of

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00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,079
a put you over the top piece, but the rest of the Knicks roster

286
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is not like near enough the top
for that to be his function. But

287
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maybe they're going to get there with
another trade. Well, and that's so,

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00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,119
and I promise we'll talk about teams
other than the Raptors and Nicks,

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which have been headliners on the past
few podcasts. To wrap up my final

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Raptors, thought what I would do
if I was Toronto and they might still

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do this, I would try to
find a trade for Yakub Pertle, and

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I would keep Pascal Siakam if that's
if this is what you're actual trying to

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redo, and then you can figure
out maybe it's more Siakam at the five,

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or we're putting a different type of
center around him, that would I

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think that is actually the best route
for them. I just don't know if

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that's what they're thinking type deal,
because they really the barn compairing is weird,

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and you throw RJ. Barrett and
quickly into there in the equation.

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But Siakam was great in that first
game they all play together, but then

299
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,079
there were moments in crunch time where
like he's not touching the ball, so

300
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,000
that gulds awkward. If I were
running the team, though, that's what

301
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:30,160
I would look to do. Your
quick thoughts on that, No, I

302
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,400
think that's I think. I agree. I just like, do you have

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00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,400
to give stuff up to get off
purdle? Now? Like are you gonna

304
00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:40,759
like what what? What is?
What are you getting back? He can't

305
00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:45,759
just dump four years and seventy eight
or eighty million or whatever it is for

306
00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:48,400
like a non stretch, non switch
center, Like who's who's Who's clamoring for

307
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,279
for that. You know, maybe
there's some teams, but like I just

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00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,759
wonder if, like Siakam, you'll
get stuff for I worry that Pearl is

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00:19:56,759 --> 00:20:00,720
gonna cost you stuff that you don't
really have to spare. Yeah, I

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00:20:00,759 --> 00:20:03,680
mean that's a good point. I
mean like maybe I don't know, and

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00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,759
he hasn't even been a good enough
Rim protector this year to say like would

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00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:11,319
New Orleans be okay with him as
sort of you know, we're gonna play

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00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,440
a lot of Nance or maybe Zion
at the five, but you have Jonus

314
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,079
already, So that is a good
point. I don't know. I don't

315
00:20:17,079 --> 00:20:18,680
know what the Yaka Purtle market.
I don't think you'd have to give up

316
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,839
stuff to get off him. But
it is kind of like, well,

317
00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:26,720
where where's he going? Yeah,
where's the landing spot that wants to pay

318
00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:29,440
him that? I mean, it's
not like a crazy salary, but it's

319
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,480
like it's a decent chunk, even
even with the cap going up. Did

320
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:37,039
you see onto the New York Knicks
again? And this isn't gonna really be

321
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:41,160
og I don't nope, really did
you see the woj bit from NBA today?

322
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,519
He's only apparently been posting on threads, which I might be a bad

323
00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:49,720
harbinger for Twitter users, which man, it does suck, just as an

324
00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:52,759
aside, just to have built that
following, Like we have five thousand followers

325
00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:56,960
on a hard one Knox and I
don't even know what I have on my

326
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,160
own personal account. It's more than
that. I think it's double, but

327
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,559
like they don't grow anymore, Like
our tweets are just I'm promoting on Twitter,

328
00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:06,559
and I'm just like why, Like
I mean, it would maybe if

329
00:21:06,599 --> 00:21:08,279
like we could get people to just
bump our own, but I don't know

330
00:21:08,279 --> 00:21:11,440
how many people are still going to
see it. So just sad to see

331
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,799
the death of what was just like, look, it was a driving force

332
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,519
for like both our careers, even
if you weren't using it as much.

333
00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:22,440
Like it was this source of information. Instant reactions to the utility of it

334
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,720
is like so diminished now just looking
for like even like I don't know what

335
00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:30,160
I was working on today, trying
to find a highlight clip of somebody doing

336
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,160
something to like embed in a in
a in an article, and it's just

337
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,599
like, how is it so hard
to find like Tyrese Haliburton jump pass,

338
00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:40,279
Like it used to be you get
you know, a million of them with

339
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:45,400
perfectly edited video clips right away now
and now it's like right wing properly.

340
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:51,519
You searched Tyre's Haliburton jump pass and
right wing propaganda on the screen right right.

341
00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:55,400
No, but the Wojes thing you're
saying, did you see it?

342
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,279
You referred to it? No,
I don't think so. The Murray stuff

343
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:03,720
basically right longer. And he didn't
mention Murray specifically in the clip that I

344
00:22:03,759 --> 00:22:06,200
saw, But I'll lay it out
this for anyone who didn't see it,

345
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,200
and you can go check it out. I'm sure it's floating around right wing

346
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,799
Twitter somewhere. Just search Donald Trump
and maybe the whirler Yeah, account for

347
00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:19,440
it. He basically said the nix's
plan is to acquire another shot creator this

348
00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:26,160
season, and then they're going to
go through the playoffs and wait for someone

349
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,759
to be discontent with the way the
playoffs end and then asked for out,

350
00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:34,240
and they will go after that player
who they will still have the picks to

351
00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:41,880
get and might use said shot creator
that they just acquired to land that said

352
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,240
star who asked her out. And
so I'm listening to this, I might

353
00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:48,720
have butchered the point. I underscored
the main point, so I might have

354
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:52,400
butchered the actual phrasing the whole thing
just screen. Well, they're gonna trade

355
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,160
for Jejonte Murray and they're prepared to
move him again over the sun. That's

356
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,160
the weirdest thing in the like.
So now it's like, uh, is

357
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,799
this like Minority Report where wooj is
like the pre cog that is like they're

358
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:06,480
gonna get him, but then also
they're gonna flip him because he's gonna be

359
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,480
upset, Like what what kind of
reporting is this? I don't understand how

360
00:23:10,519 --> 00:23:14,039
you're because I'm like, what is
the other unless he's like kind of referring

361
00:23:14,079 --> 00:23:17,480
to bow Don Bodanovitch, which maybe
they're just both involved in the trade,

362
00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:22,559
or is he referring to Boyan Bodanovich
where it's like to get a stop gap

363
00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:25,440
type thing. But when he should
shot creator, I immediately went all right,

364
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,519
so it's not gonna be a big
or someone who might infringe the like

365
00:23:29,519 --> 00:23:32,440
Boyan Bardanovich should really play the four. I don't want to see him playing

366
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,839
next to Julius Randall and then h
you know, Isaiah Hartenstein. And so

367
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,799
I was just like, well,
it's Murray, Mitchell's not on the trade

368
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:42,720
market. I still don't love the
fit with Brunton anyway, and so I

369
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:48,640
want your thoughts on this, well
two things, One what do you think

370
00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:53,440
of like that overall plan? And
two how do you feel about the Murray

371
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,720
Brunton fit now that IQ and Barrett
are out of the equation? And then

372
00:23:57,759 --> 00:24:03,119
also three to circle back to one, am I wrong? I've been thinking

373
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,960
that this is kind of an ingenious
plan. No, I'm not saying Murray's

374
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,319
the guy, but if you're viewing
it as like there's a chance because Murray's

375
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:15,880
extension kicks in next season at twenty
four point eight million, YEP. If

376
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,640
i'd ask you right now whether Manuel
Quickly is making more or less than that,

377
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,599
it's already less than RJ. Barrett. But do you think IQ will

378
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,039
be making more than twenty five million
over under I'm going to evade that.

379
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:32,240
I think I think he'll be making
I mean right there, So I'll just

380
00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:34,240
I'll just say more because it might
be, but it's going to be right

381
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:38,720
in the neighborhood. But so you're
asking, So you're asking, is it

382
00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:45,359
an ingenious plan to acquire a players
they are contented because you've lost in the

383
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:52,200
playoffs and want to leave and then
trade this discontented person who you are banking

384
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,079
on wanting out, Like no,
no, no, no, no,

385
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,160
So I'm sorry if I s plent
it wrong. They want to acquire a

386
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,240
shot creator, Yes, bring him
the answer for this season, and they

387
00:25:02,319 --> 00:25:07,279
will if they have to use him
to then acquire someone else who's unhappy about

388
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:11,160
the way the playoffs ended. And
that kind of screamed like, so we're

389
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,039
just talking about you're trying to send
to Jonte Murray out for Joel and Beid.

390
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:15,839
It is just getting out the entires
that duel. Okay, so it's

391
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,839
not Yeah, that makes a little
that's a little closer to ing genius than

392
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:22,960
what I thought you were saying,
Like let's get this guy. He'll get

393
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,559
pissed off for sure, and then
we'll trade him. Like that's not a

394
00:25:25,599 --> 00:25:29,200
good plan. Uh No, that's
interesting. So, uh the Murray thing

395
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,480
just looking so you you laid out
the number Murray's going to make about twenty

396
00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:36,880
five next year, twenty seven to
twenty nine, thirty one million dollars player

397
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,119
option the fourth year of this new
deal, which which to me like that

398
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,680
really feels about like what Quickly is
going to get, Like if if his

399
00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:48,039
numbers go like twenty five, twenty
seven, twenty nine, thirty one million,

400
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,759
like that's not going to shock.
I think that's close to what it's

401
00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:53,440
going to probably take. I guess
maybe a little less. I don't know,

402
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:59,440
yeah, because I think people forget
restricted free agency is so prohibitive now

403
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,640
other teams to where it's like I
I will probably land lampooned teams. I

404
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,880
didn't go after Austin Reeves and poison
Pill in this summer. I'm gonna do

405
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,880
the same thing sands any poison Pill
with Quickly, where it's like, well,

406
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,559
if the magic have cap space or
like, just go throw it,

407
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,000
go throw it quickly, and if
they match, fine, you burnt your

408
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,799
cap space for a few hours,
You're okay. So just just with specifically

409
00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:26,920
focusing on Murray as as the guy
you put next to Brunson, I don't

410
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,079
think there's enough evidence to suggest that
he's all that different from Quickly in terms

411
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,960
of like value and even really like
player type because if you just like Quickly

412
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,599
doesn't play as much. But if
you go sort them both for per thirty

413
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,799
six, like Murray and Quickly are
like shockingly close with key dident like you

414
00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:45,480
know, twenty one twenty two points
per thirty six, like four or five

415
00:26:45,519 --> 00:26:48,880
assists and rebounds each per thirty six. But Quickly is the better shooter.

416
00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:52,720
He gets up more threes, he
gets to the line more often. Uh,

417
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:55,119
Murray has a big edge and steals. I guess if you care about

418
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,039
that, But I think Quickly is
demonstrated he's a very good you know,

419
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:02,119
defender against unless you get too much
size against him, which Murray doesn't really

420
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,400
guard up that much. So like
if you didn't like the idea of paying

421
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:10,400
Quickly to be next to Brunson and
thought, you know, the mix just

422
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,119
isn't quite right, Like unless you
get Murray from like last year in San

423
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,200
Antonio when he was really viewed as
more of a defensive guard than an offensive

424
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,359
guard, which has flipped in Atlanta, then I don't understand the logic of

425
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,599
quickly out Murray in like great obviously, like you do quickly out because you're

426
00:27:27,599 --> 00:27:33,160
getting Anonobe. But the just those
two are not different enough to me to

427
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:38,319
justify the Knicks thinking Murray as someone
that like really adds a ton I get

428
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,519
like Quickly's gone, so yeah,
Murray would replace Quickly, but it's not

429
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:45,960
like I don't. It doesn't make
sense to me why one would be so

430
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,200
preferable over the other. If you
if if moving quickly was also about like

431
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,359
we don't want to pay him what
it's going to cost, then bringing in

432
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,680
someone who is gonna make similar money
and does similar stuff is weird to me.

433
00:27:56,519 --> 00:27:59,680
I agree to an extent, and
but there are a few things where

434
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,400
I'm diff and I think you can
look at it in some of would you

435
00:28:03,559 --> 00:28:10,359
rather have Jalen Brunson Emmanuel Quickly and
RJ. Barrett or Jalen Brunson, de

436
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:15,359
Jontay Murray and Ogananoby Obviously the latter, right, like that's that's the way

437
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,039
to look at it. You're looking
at it that way, And then the

438
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:22,599
differentiation. I do think Emmanuel Quickly
should end up being the more valuable offensive

439
00:28:22,599 --> 00:28:25,000
player. As good as Jeantay Murray
has been this year, he's the better

440
00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:27,640
jehan De Murray shooting like forty percent
off the dribble threes, thirty seven percent

441
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,880
on catch and shoot threes. Emmanuel
Quickly has been better historically as a catch

442
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,440
and shoot guy. They both like
to get to the in between, but

443
00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:37,000
quickly as more of kind of that
like sudden floater, whereas like Murray wants

444
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,880
to kind of pull up and go
with the emotions. Murray's a much better

445
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,559
passer, I would say, than
Quickly at this stage. And I also,

446
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,920
I know he said he doesn't defend
up, but he does defend stars,

447
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,279
and like Emmanuel Quickly has defended stars. And part of the reason he's

448
00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:55,519
not defending stars is he's not starting. But like you, Ken, Murray

449
00:28:55,599 --> 00:28:59,000
six' five and pretty long,
so we can guard up. And it's

450
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,440
also defensive role in Atlanta is so
much different from if he's in New York

451
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,640
with og Anenobi on the roster.
And then also even hart and like,

452
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,480
here's a serious question, are Hartenstein
and Mitchell Robinson both better defensively than Clin

453
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,680
Capella At this point he might be
Now yeah, I mean really, it's

454
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,279
a conversation at least so I I
think I understand the logic now where it's

455
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:26,039
like, well, if Quickly was
gonna it took quickly, like we needed

456
00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:29,200
to give up quickly to get og
Now this is the path we're gonna follow.

457
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:32,640
I'm now more intrigued by the Murray
fit than I was when we had

458
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,839
the initial report before the og Anonobe
trade that prominent members of the Knicks organization

459
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,599
view him as the ideal trade target. Now the idealism here that's still doing

460
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,920
a lot of work. But I
think that the contract structure, if he's

461
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,039
making a little bit more than quickly, that I think his we know what

462
00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:52,400
his deal is, I guess is
what I'm saying, and like quickly there

463
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,400
would have been a trade restriction on
him this summer unless you broke her to

464
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,640
sign in trade. And then also
just like the mysterity of not knowing the

465
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,720
number there, you know what the
number is for Murray, and I think

466
00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:07,359
it's a contract that unless you're trying
to suck, what team wouldn't want the

467
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,680
Murray car? Like that's just not
I know his value is kind of divisive

468
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,640
at this point, but I think
that that's a good contract and so you

469
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,000
can fold it in to the next
deal. So it's almost like a to

470
00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:27,279
me, it's almost like a twisted, warped Sam Presty way of thinking where

471
00:30:27,319 --> 00:30:30,680
it's I'm thinking they're looking at Fournier
right now and they're like, well,

472
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,880
we're trying to figure out a way
to keep this expiring salary, like to

473
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,079
roll it over into a trade asset, but maybe also from someone who could

474
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:41,920
play for us right now, because
Fournier is not really going to. I

475
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,400
don't know if it works out for
them. I think what makes me more

476
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,079
uncomfortable would be two things. What
is the cost of getting Murray? I

477
00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:52,359
honestly, I don't know, Like
you're not is it like you're probably gonna

478
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,079
have to give up some picks or
pick in that, But if you're keeping

479
00:30:56,119 --> 00:30:59,759
all your own picks and all your
own distance picks, then yes, you're

480
00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:04,039
start still dry. You are now
running thin on and they were running thin

481
00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:07,079
to begin with because quickly he was
about to get paid. R J.

482
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,039
Barret already got paid. Wasn't playing
well. You don't have any like tangible

483
00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:15,079
blue chippers. There's quitting grimes and
that's how it. Yeah. No,

484
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,200
I think if you're Atlanta, if
you're willing to take back a package that's

485
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:25,920
mostly like Fournier is the main salary
and then picks like that would be and

486
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,440
maybe this is what Atlanta should do, Like that would be a move you

487
00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:34,519
make in anticipation of like we're really
gonna strip this thing down because the idea

488
00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:37,839
was that Murray was kind of just, oh, this is the piece we

489
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,960
need to really get, you know, to minimize Trey Young's weaknesses, and

490
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,440
we're gonna take a step forward,
and like that's just not where the Hawks

491
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,000
are now. So maybe maybe that
would make sense in that context, Like

492
00:31:49,039 --> 00:31:52,799
as a we're either not saying they're
gonna trade Tray if they trade Murray,

493
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,880
like probably they just you know,
rebuild the entire core around Trey I guess,

494
00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:01,519
but like, I think you probably
need a player back, you know,

495
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,559
in most realistic constructions of this,
because it doesn't seem likely that Atlanta,

496
00:32:06,599 --> 00:32:09,519
even if it should, is gonna
get like go beyond like Murray as

497
00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:14,079
the first in a series of moves
that were you know, kind of really

498
00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:15,440
going to change the face of this
roster. That just feels like a very

499
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,559
non Atlanta thing to do. So
if it's like money, it might be

500
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:22,680
a very Atlanta I think, well, yeah, it's the money site,

501
00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:24,680
sure, But if it's not fourty
A and picks, like what even else

502
00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:28,440
is there? Like how do you
even well you're mentioning a player would have

503
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,279
to be Grimes at that point,
and that would make some sense because if

504
00:32:31,359 --> 00:32:36,720
Murray's coming in, you have de
Vincenzo, you have Josh Hart. Still

505
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,039
his playing time could be repressed in
that regard, and the Knicks might They

506
00:32:40,039 --> 00:32:45,480
did extend Duce McBride, so they
might view it as like we're gonna go

507
00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:47,799
forward with this. But then Atlanta
also has to consider, well, we

508
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:52,160
have to pay Jalen Johnson and we
have to pay Quenton Grimes as well.

509
00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:54,319
It feels very makeshift, and maybe
that's the I want to wrap up on

510
00:32:54,319 --> 00:32:57,960
the Knicks very quickly. The part
of this plan that makes me uneasy.

511
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,880
What is this star that you're waiting
on to ask out? Because I really

512
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,079
don't think it's gonna be Joelle Embiid
in Philly. No, And so it's

513
00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:07,559
like I don't want to I don't
want to see them acquire de Jontay Murray

514
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,559
just to try and fold it over
into Donovan Mitchell. That doesn't do anything.

515
00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:15,880
I Actually I like the Murray fit
with Brunson probably better than the Mitchell

516
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,519
fit with Brunson, because that is
not as eminently attackable on defense. Yeah,

517
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,799
certainly for the price too, right, because the murder that is like

518
00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:29,079
meaningfully less than Mitchell's make and what
Mitchell is making and will make like on

519
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,680
on his next one. So if
they're thinking it's McHale Bridges, that's like

520
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,400
fine, does he fit the bill
of a I mean, if you had

521
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,839
Ogno we McHale Bridges on the same
team, that's pretty exciting. I last

522
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:42,680
thing, I know, we keep
trying to move off the knicks, but

523
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:47,640
like, so Julius Randall has been
good, like is it? I still

524
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:54,079
get the feeling of like, I
just don't feel comfortable with needing him to

525
00:33:54,279 --> 00:33:59,680
make tough two point jumpers off the
dribble, sometimes to bail the offense out

526
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,519
like this, this is like a
four year old take. But every Knixt

527
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:06,640
game I watch, that's still a
thing that kind of feels necessary. Is

528
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,599
is is the Ananobe acquisition and all
this other talk? Is there any where

529
00:34:10,599 --> 00:34:15,559
where do you put the like the
likelihood of a Randall move at some point,

530
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:19,639
like relative to what's happened lately?
Is it higher? Is it lower?

531
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,039
Is Randall just like a fixture forever? Like what where is he in

532
00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:25,280
the organization? Now? One?
I know you say your take is a

533
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,280
four year old take, but even
as he's contending for a third All NBA

534
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,239
spot and again I wouldn't predict to
get it, but the minimum games played,

535
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:37,159
that's going to do what it's happened. He could be a three time

536
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,079
All NBA player. It couldn't be
such a fascinating player to look back on

537
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:43,119
in a few years. I don't
know what to do with them. So,

538
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,039
but your your take isn't old,
it's on point, because even when

539
00:34:46,079 --> 00:34:50,719
he's good, it's you're always waiting
for the other shoot to drop. There's

540
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,320
it's with him, it's mountaintops and
gullies. There's never liken in between.

541
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:59,119
And here's where I land. If
the fact that they have og Ananobi now

542
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,119
who can very easily just B or
four, sure, maybe he should go

543
00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:07,840
out and trade de Jonte Murray.
My guess is that they're then going to

544
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:13,000
use Julius Randall as sort of this
hybrid. We'll look at this expiring salary

545
00:35:13,039 --> 00:35:17,559
matcher slash really good player who has
maybe three NBA selections over the past half

546
00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:22,639
decade, and that's who they're gonna
use to try and get that next player,

547
00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:28,760
because they have another creator in Murray, another guy who can take up

548
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,039
Randall's minutes. And then maybe they'll
be targeting either a different type of big

549
00:35:32,119 --> 00:35:37,639
or more likely just another type of
wing to pair with Ojan Andobi. That

550
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,960
is where I would land on it. I also recognize that Randald's actually been

551
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,360
really good, and so if other
teams are only gonna view him as a

552
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:51,039
salary matching tool, like you're working
from a deficit if you're the next at

553
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:52,519
this point, because this dude is
really whether you like it or not,

554
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,199
or comfortable with it or not,
he's incredibly pivotal to what they're doing.

555
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,320
He is, and he's not a
universal fit. So it's like I said,

556
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,880
like, who's the team clamoring for
peerl Like who's out there saying we

557
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,719
need Randall is the guy we need, we need a ball dominant for Like,

558
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,920
I don't understand who's saying that.
Would you hate him? I mentioned

559
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,960
this as a joke to the Uncontested
Fellas, but they said it was or

560
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:22,800
at least Jacob Niffen did said it
was interesting that Julius Randall on OKC wouldn't

561
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,519
be like he's so ball dominant,
But if you're replacing some of the Giddy

562
00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:28,559
minutes, and Giddy's been good,
you'd have to put him in a smaller

563
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:30,920
role. I don't think it's like
a good long term fit. So I

564
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,760
don't like it. Yeah, I
can't wrap my head around that one he

565
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,440
has. I hope I'm not.
I hope I'm not. I keep calling

566
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:39,320
him an expiring contract after this year, but I M, let's let's see

567
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,320
if I'm even right there. I
think there might be an appeal where like

568
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,480
let's look at a Raptors type situation. Yeah, because he has that player

569
00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:51,360
option for twenty twenty five, which
I expect him to decline. So like,

570
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,079
if you're you're like a team that's
kind of in transition, you're not

571
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:57,559
looking to suck, and you need
someone that's gonna eat innings and also be

572
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,280
like serviceable and good for a year
maybe too, Like there are worse things

573
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:07,960
to do than have Julius Randall there. So that's just my gut. I

574
00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:10,480
just don't. I don't without knowing
at this point, do I fully expect

575
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,360
them to just acquire to Chante Murray. That Like, that's initially where I'm

576
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,480
mad. But we've talked about it
enough to where it's just in it it's

577
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,760
bound to happen now. Uh,
but we haven't. We've talked about the

578
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,280
Hawks a little bit, and I
want to talk about them a little bit

579
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,639
more because they're sort of like Raptors
South at this point. I don't know

580
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,000
what they're doing or even necessarily what
they should do, and they're probably behind

581
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:36,320
the eight ball compared to the Raptors. Just because at least Scottie Barnes gives

582
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,960
you access to all these different timelines. I'm not sure that Trey Young does

583
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,239
the same thing, and I think
you need to build out your roster with

584
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:50,079
more rigid specifications if he is your
tent pole star than if Scotty Barnes is

585
00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:53,800
your central building block. Right now, I just I look at this team.

586
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,039
They are terrible on defense. They
don't seem to have any interest after

587
00:37:59,039 --> 00:38:02,239
they missed a shot in getting back. In transition, there's possessions of beauty,

588
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,559
and most of them involved Jalen Johnson, And then there's just possessions where

589
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,199
the ball doesn't really move even close
to the free throw line and Trey Young

590
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:15,519
is chucking up this big or this
ultra long three pointer. And you know,

591
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,960
there are nights where the like and
the offense is super efficient, but

592
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,039
then there are knights where it's just
also super maddening. Yeah, and there's

593
00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:24,960
no flow. It feels your turn
my attorney or something less than that.

594
00:38:25,679 --> 00:38:30,760
They have good players on this team. Uh, But I'm also just like,

595
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,360
well, should you be trying to
capitalize the value of this players?

596
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:37,159
And they're worried about paying people and
they've already paid bumped up by Donovich.

597
00:38:37,199 --> 00:38:39,559
He's not making too much. But
you've paid Trey, You've paid Murray,

598
00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:43,840
you've paid Hunter. Now you gotta
pay Jalen Johnson, you gotta pay Sadie

599
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,239
Bay, Cliff Capela's under contract for
a little bit. You haven Yaka kung

600
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:52,119
Wu, who's on a reasonable deal. I just don't know what they're doing

601
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:54,320
or what their endgame is. And
it seems like everyone other than Trey Young

602
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,239
is available, So what is the
pivot for this team? And like,

603
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:02,880
I know some people will be annoyed
that we're focusing transactionally on them, but

604
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,320
everything feels so transactionally driven by them, even down to the roster that's in

605
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,920
place right now, because of how
they handle the the John Collins stuff.

606
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,719
I just what is what is his
team doing? Yeah? I think like

607
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,079
I don't know, Maybe we should
do an episode on this at some point,

608
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:22,480
but the Hawks are way up there
in the like the whole is less

609
00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:25,960
than the sum of the parts thing
because you list it off like I don't

610
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,119
know, seven or eight guys that
you just objectively you would say, well,

611
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:31,199
that guy can that guy helps the
team, that guy helps a team,

612
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,559
Like you know, Bugdanovich is like
just maybe the best. Maybe he

613
00:39:35,559 --> 00:39:37,639
should be six Man of the Year
if you had the vote right now,

614
00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:39,719
and is like would start for lots
and lots of teams, and you know,

615
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,920
Jalen Johnson's really exciting. DeAndre Hunter
I think has mostly been a disappointment,

616
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,519
but that's another like salary thing,
like he got his you know,

617
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,039
post rookie deal, and now it's
like, oh it's not good enough anymore.

618
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,400
You know, a Kong Wu has
got his deal, but like Capella

619
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,480
is just still there, like that
that was supposed to be like a torch

620
00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:00,519
passing thing or gonna trade Capella.
They got all the guys. I think,

621
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:07,119
like is it wrong to just say
that because Trey Young is the type

622
00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:12,280
of player he is, which is
just a phenomenal, Like he alone means

623
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,840
your offense can be very good.
He alone also means you will just you're

624
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:22,199
gonna spend every game hiding him defensively
trying to get everybody else that plays with

625
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,239
him to give an effort defensively because
he doesn't. And he's your best player

626
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,159
and highest paid player. So the
tone setting element is tricky. Is it

627
00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:32,679
the case now that you just if
you're gonna have Trey Young on the team,

628
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,440
you have to sort of treat it
like the MAVs have tried a couple

629
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,679
times with Luka Doncic, and it's
just like everyone around him has to be

630
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,719
a good defender that can make open
threes, and we're just gonna play that

631
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,360
way, like that's that's just what
the roster construction has to be. And

632
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,519
so in that situation, like de
John Tay Murray doesn't really have a place

633
00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:54,480
because he hasn't been that good of
a defender and he's not a huge volume

634
00:40:54,519 --> 00:41:00,880
three point shooter diddo for you know, even Hunter didto for like Bogdanovic,

635
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,159
he's deplicative. We need to use
that salary slot and value of him to

636
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,159
turn him into like twenty twenty one
Dorian Finney Smith and like, you know,

637
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,840
things like that. We just need
a bunch of those guys around Trey

638
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,360
Young or this can't work, Like
maybe that's where we are now, because

639
00:41:15,519 --> 00:41:17,800
you see, you know, it's
a unique player type, and it's it's

640
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,800
different than Luca in Dallas because Young
is small, and it's just harder,

641
00:41:22,119 --> 00:41:27,800
I think sometimes to work around that
with him being at the point of attackle

642
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,360
all the time. Although you could
argue that because Luca has to guard threes

643
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,880
and fours, like that's a worse
spot to be deficient in. Defensively,

644
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,360
Luca is a better defender than Trey
Young just because of his size. I

645
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:42,519
don't know. It does raise a
bunch of questions about like what should the

646
00:41:42,519 --> 00:41:46,000
team around Trey look like? And
then subsequently like is he a good enough

647
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,840
player for us to be building a
specific type of team around? Like that's

648
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,280
really the Galaxy brain question is like, you know we're talking about all these

649
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:58,239
other players. Is the issue just
like maybe it's really hard or impossible to

650
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,360
build a consistent big time winner around
Trey Young because of how he plays,

651
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,719
Like, I don't know. I
think that that's what makes the Hawks so

652
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,440
fascinating is because like you could try
to solve the problem really drastically, or

653
00:42:07,519 --> 00:42:10,840
you could like tinker a little bit
and see, you know what kind of

654
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,840
player mix changes things, and you've
you've outlaid the problem really well. But

655
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,199
I then also wonder, Okay,
there is this rigidity to how you have

656
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,840
to build your roster around him.
Have they ever come close to effectively doing

657
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,400
that? Well? So, as
I was saying that, I was trying

658
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,920
to think back on who was on
the team that made the East Finals with

659
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,880
him, and it's like mostly these
guys, So I don't know what to

660
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,000
do with that, and it's and
even what makes it even more confusing is

661
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,000
the names that they have actually been
linked to, because they're at the stage

662
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:44,280
where it feels like other teams are
linked to their players, where it's,

663
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,559
oh, team X will be interested
in by Donovic and I'd be like,

664
00:42:46,599 --> 00:42:51,159
twenty nine teams should probably be interested
him if he's available. There's been rumors

665
00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:53,039
about, well, which team would
be willing to take on Clint Capella and

666
00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:58,400
that that list is definitely dwindling,
and it's well Dejonta Murray and and the

667
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,719
Knicks or de Jonte Murray and I
haven't have we heard of John Murray link

668
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,920
to any other team that they think? Maybe? Is that me though?

669
00:43:06,159 --> 00:43:09,280
Who mentioned that Lakers could have been
some idiot online probably could have been.

670
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:15,440
Yeah, so me. But like, the only players we really heard about

671
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:22,559
them targeting is Pascal Siakam, which
doesn't do anything to clarify the direction of

672
00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:25,360
this team because I don't love his
his sit with Trey Young, I think,

673
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:30,599
is I mean, you're looking for
to kind of dilute the ball dominance.

674
00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:32,480
You don't do that, and you're
getting a worse shooter if you're going

675
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:37,159
from Murray to Siakam, assuming Murray
is moving out in another deal or at

676
00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:39,400
least headed in another team, and
then you have to pay, So what

677
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,960
do you do? And he's gonna
probably get more than Murray did. I'd

678
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,519
be shocked if he didn't more than
Murray for sure. Yeah. So I'm

679
00:43:46,599 --> 00:43:52,360
just like, I don't understand.
I wouldn't mind seeing and Trey, but

680
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,880
like, what is this the like
what is the bigger, the larger plan

681
00:43:55,039 --> 00:43:59,599
here? And I can only come
to the conclusion that the front office doesn't

682
00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:02,880
have one. Well, I mean
I can sympathize a little bit because I

683
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,800
imagine they were caught off guard by
this team not improving significantly this season,

684
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,599
right, because like that it seemed
like they're they're over under was an easy

685
00:44:10,639 --> 00:44:14,559
over for a lot of people.
I know, I thought that the Hawks

686
00:44:14,559 --> 00:44:17,199
were gonna be you know, high
forties probably if not better than that in

687
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,559
terms of winterital and like they just
haven't been. So I think, like

688
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,639
I understand why the front office could
kind of be looking at each other thinking

689
00:44:25,679 --> 00:44:29,039
like, well, shit, like
what now, right, because like this

690
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:34,639
everything pointed towards just a better season, and it's been hasn't just been stagnant,

691
00:44:34,679 --> 00:44:36,920
it's been worse. I mean,
their their record, they're on pace

692
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,840
to lose more games than last year. So like, yeah, I don't

693
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,280
know. I wonder if, like, in a situation like this where it

694
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:49,519
seems like so intractable, like is
way, like have you seen anything from

695
00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:52,519
the Hawks? This is like a
rhetorical question because I haven't. That suggests

696
00:44:52,519 --> 00:44:54,480
like maybe we just give it this
year and wait it out, Like maybe

697
00:44:54,519 --> 00:44:59,079
we just see like if there is
there a surge in the second half or

698
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:02,000
something, because it's like the alternative
is we've just laid out how tricky it

699
00:45:02,039 --> 00:45:06,599
all is, Like there's I mean, I don't know what the fix is.

700
00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:08,679
So maybe maybe it's just like I
don't know, do nothing and address

701
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:12,639
it in June or July or something. I don't know, Yeah, I

702
00:45:12,639 --> 00:45:16,320
don't. I mean Jalen Johnson had
a behind the back dunk against the Thunder

703
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:20,960
tonight as we record this, so
maybe that is that the flash point.

704
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,480
And there I think they're. They
were when I turned it off to come

705
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:28,519
podcasts with you, they were.
They were thumping the Thunder and let's see

706
00:45:28,519 --> 00:45:30,559
if they finished the job. They
did well, they didn't thump them,

707
00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:34,480
but they won one forty one to
one thirty eight because it's the Hawk's defense.

708
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:36,679
Second nut of a back to back
for the Thunder, though, they

709
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:37,519
Yeah, coming off a game against
Boston, I went down to them.

710
00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:42,039
I'm just saying, though they were
killing them at one point. So no,

711
00:45:42,119 --> 00:45:45,119
I haven't seen anything from them that
would make me say let's give it

712
00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:47,360
the season. You'll actually know what
I have seen that. I mean say

713
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,880
this literally all the alternatives on the
trade market to where it's no, we're

714
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:58,559
not stripping it down. We're just
foldly miss into another weird iteration experiment version

715
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:04,480
of let's see we can be aggressively
mediocres right right, Yeah, they're they're

716
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,519
I don't know that. I'm not
enthused. I would say about like what

717
00:46:08,519 --> 00:46:13,199
the prospects are for this team.
But like again, you can definitely trade

718
00:46:13,199 --> 00:46:15,599
Bogdanavi's for positive value. You can
definitely trade Murray for positive value. I

719
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:20,079
think Jalen Johnson I want to hold
onto him if I'm Atlanta, but like

720
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,760
as throwing him in with bigger salaries
could really get you something potentially, but

721
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:29,800
I don't want to do that m
without giving up Jalen Johnson. If I'm

722
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:31,920
Toronto, I'm like, I have
to have Jalen Johnson or that's it.

723
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,280
You never know what the offers are
going to be. They got rid of

724
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,880
Achua and if you're gonna get rid
of Siakham and you got rid of Adaobi,

725
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,760
Like who's you have? Scotty Barnes, Like, who's this bigger forward

726
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,039
on your team? Now? Just
Auto Porter Junior just ready to get him

727
00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:51,800
out there? Which team? Which
team do you want to head to next?

728
00:46:52,039 --> 00:46:54,920
I want to talk Grizzlies a little
bit, just because this is the

729
00:46:55,039 --> 00:46:59,719
rare case where there's a before and
after for this team. And the before,

730
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,480
you know, obviously, the before
is when John Morant was suspended and

731
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:07,159
the Grizzlies were snake bit by injuries
and just like full stop, one of

732
00:47:07,199 --> 00:47:12,440
the most disappointing teams in the league, and so I wanted to look at

733
00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:15,320
just mostly out of curiosity, like
because basically, if you did the numbers,

734
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:20,119
they got to win at close to
a fifty win pace. I know

735
00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:24,079
that they they just lost as we're
recording this, so this will change slightly,

736
00:47:24,119 --> 00:47:28,199
but they needed a fifty win pace
to get to five hundred, which

737
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,960
you know is to go forty one
and forty one, which is as you

738
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,280
look at it right now, like
that might do it for like at ninth

739
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,760
or tenth spot in the West and
get into the play in, which would

740
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:42,679
be a pretty like significant accomplishment given
how bleak things have been so far.

741
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,920
Modest as it is to say a
team that's won fifty plus two years in

742
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:52,800
a row could really scramble and make
the last two playing spots. Maybe it's

743
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,760
like the type of thing where if
they lose four of five or even like

744
00:47:54,800 --> 00:48:00,239
three or four, like at any
point that just like I'm no longer paying

745
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:05,920
attention to them. Probably, But
so with Jaw's first game was twelve,

746
00:48:06,159 --> 00:48:07,719
was a December nineteenth. Since then, Memphis, I had him at five

747
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,039
and three, they're five and four
now five and three when he in the

748
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:15,440
games he's played. Their best win
was probably that one over New Orleans the

749
00:48:15,519 --> 00:48:19,320
day after Christmas. They've had some
pushovers. So like even the solid record

750
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,159
since Jaw's return is a little if
he the twenty eighth in offense, ninth

751
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:25,639
in defense since Moran came back,
which is a little like, I don't

752
00:48:25,639 --> 00:48:29,679
know, I buy the defense being
ninth or better with their personnel. Twenty

753
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,639
eighth on offense is just like shooting
variants and small samples. So like Moran's

754
00:48:32,679 --> 00:48:37,000
not hitting his threes, Marcus Smart
stills in hitting his threes. Lukenar came

755
00:48:37,039 --> 00:48:39,559
back when he was hitting his threes. Well, if he plays, he

756
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:45,280
does. But so to that point, lineup's coming into this recently lost game,

757
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:52,440
I believe to Toronto on the third
lineups with Jaw, Bain Smart and

758
00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:57,159
Jared Jackson Junior were minus eight point
one net rating. Small samples obviously,

759
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,000
but the only reason for that is
the offense has been horrible. It's like

760
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:02,599
ninety four points per one hundred,
which is you know, in the modern

761
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:08,000
era is like unfathomably, you just
can't you almost can't play that poorly on

762
00:49:08,039 --> 00:49:13,519
offense. Yeah, with five NBA
players on the floor, so like and

763
00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:16,679
the defense is one or two point
five, which again the small sample caveats

764
00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:21,000
should apply to both ends. But
it's just like I think that might be

765
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,960
about right, Like that group could
defend that way. That's or at least

766
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:29,039
that's closer to real. So like
I'm kind of I'm still sort of optimistic,

767
00:49:29,199 --> 00:49:34,559
and again optimistic being you can play
at a fifty win pace for the

768
00:49:34,599 --> 00:49:37,760
next three months or whatever, and
you know, like because you've done that

769
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:42,639
with roughly this team, and if
Marcus Smart is anything other than terrible and

770
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,840
can be healthy, then I don't
know, Like I just think the offense

771
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:52,000
needs to be a priority in any
move they make. And I wonder trying

772
00:49:52,039 --> 00:49:54,239
to like sort of wave to this, like what okay, so what like

773
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,920
they're better with jaw, they need
to be really good to have a postseason

774
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,000
of any kind? What do you
do? Can you flip Smart? And

775
00:50:02,039 --> 00:50:06,719
can you package him with like Aldama
or Zion Williams? Is anybody interested in

776
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,320
that? And you can get like
a two way wing or like a big

777
00:50:08,679 --> 00:50:13,400
that would make more sense next to
Jared Jackson junior, like like Wendell Carter.

778
00:50:13,559 --> 00:50:15,679
Is that that guy? Like do
you go stop gap with like Nick

779
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:22,239
Vucevich, do you go stopt with
Valentunas like you, how are you getting

780
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,480
if you're if you're the Grizzlies.
I think I think you outlined it is

781
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:30,559
that. I do believe he doesn't
fit the archetype of the bigger forward.

782
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:34,639
But because of what Toronto will have
been sending out, it's can you get

783
00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:37,920
one of sort of those forwards,
those younger forwards, not Zaia Williams,

784
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:42,079
but let's say Santi al Dama Smart
and then the rest of the salary make

785
00:50:42,119 --> 00:50:45,599
it work. I'm sure Toronto would
insist on Luke Canard, but they're probably

786
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:46,960
gonna be more aptive, you know, like we'll give you Brandon Clark and

787
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:51,360
Marcus Smart and Santi Aldama. I
think that number gets you to that.

788
00:50:51,519 --> 00:50:57,880
I don't think that's enough. But
I don't hate Siakam there because if you

789
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,360
have Jackson's space on the floor that
you can you can get you are I

790
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,760
do wonder if he would become discrolled
with like, all right, well my

791
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,599
offensive role is just buried. We
got Bain Sakham and John Moran. Where's

792
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:10,880
that headed? Yeah? For you? I like, I don't know if

793
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,599
I like the end result, but
I like it enough to where I would

794
00:51:14,599 --> 00:51:19,719
really want to see it right,
and I think I think you do have

795
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,559
to just skew offense if you're gonna
improve this roster, which is like weird

796
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:28,440
because the big offseason move was getting
Marcus Smart in there to replace Stillan Brooks.

797
00:51:28,519 --> 00:51:31,920
As you're trying to preserve the defense. I just I think if you

798
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:36,119
have Jaron Jackson, and you know, Jaw's not great, but you have

799
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,480
enough around him, your defense is
gonna be fine. So it's just like,

800
00:51:38,519 --> 00:51:42,920
how can you because I guess if
you've got to play at a fifty

801
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,519
win pace, you need to have
a net rating that's you know, plus

802
00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:51,239
three plus four probably, So it's
like it's all got to come on offense.

803
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,440
The defense will be there. You
just have to be above water offensively,

804
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:58,000
and they just haven't been yet.
So yeah, they're They're an interesting

805
00:51:58,039 --> 00:52:01,280
team to think of as like a
trade candidate because you might would you if

806
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,039
he're them. I understand that Jaw's
good. You've paid I mean baying the

807
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,440
extension hasn't kicked in, but like
you've paid him. You've paid Jaron Jackson

808
00:52:08,519 --> 00:52:13,599
Junior. Is this the season too? We've talked about how they waited too

809
00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:16,000
long to make the consolidation trade or
trades, and then when they finally did,

810
00:52:16,039 --> 00:52:20,880
they were the wrong ones. Basically, do you make a move like

811
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,920
that this season when it when it
feels so like just the past, you're

812
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:30,400
gonna have to travel to get even
just into the playoffs? Right, there's

813
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,280
the argument of well, yeah,
then go and get guy X so that

814
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,320
you can actually get into the plane
and into the playoffs. But then it's,

815
00:52:36,519 --> 00:52:38,280
well, you give this many assets
for a season that's just gonna end

816
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,800
in, you know, losing in
the first round or something. And then

817
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:45,119
you could argue, well, if
that player is under contract, you're gonna

818
00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:47,559
keep them. There's you should always
just go get them because you're not just

819
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:51,840
gonna tank this season anyway. And
so I probably land on if it's out

820
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,119
there, if you can try Siakam
or even though about Larry marketing for this

821
00:52:55,199 --> 00:52:58,760
team. I don't know, if
you like the triple J marketing pairing,

822
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,400
that would be something to think about
you I very much do. I think

823
00:53:00,519 --> 00:53:05,480
I think market I just don't.
I don't know. Did the Grizzlies have

824
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:08,400
five first round picks to appease Danny
ainge for for marketing. They have all

825
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,559
their own so they can get they
get I think they get trade four.

826
00:53:13,559 --> 00:53:17,800
I mean that's a like a way
better fit than Siakam, right, just

827
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:22,400
because market it has so much value
as just a shooter that that he could.

828
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,400
You know, I'm not worried about
him monopolizing touches or being upset not

829
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:30,519
getting enough on ball stuff. This
maybe's a bigger question, like do you

830
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:35,800
so let's say the Grizzlies lose six
in a row, right, and so

831
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,039
now it's just like we're not making
we cannot make the play in we just

832
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:45,519
don't have it. Should that change
like their approach to going and getting the

833
00:53:45,559 --> 00:53:51,559
type of player we're talking about,
like just in like a like a theoretical

834
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:53,079
sense, like or should you just
go get that guy and be like,

835
00:53:53,119 --> 00:53:55,199
well, come now, we're gonna
see what we got this year. We'll

836
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:58,519
probably rest a bunch of guys,
and then we come back next year with

837
00:53:58,599 --> 00:54:00,559
the team we want. Like,
I think maybe they should operate almost the

838
00:54:00,639 --> 00:54:06,519
same way whether they're sort of unofficially
eliminated or not from the playoffs, just

839
00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:08,840
because you know, most of this
roster, the guys that really matter are

840
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:13,800
young so you can still think like, well, we're just trying to be

841
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,400
good in twenty four to twenty five
and beyond, so we'll go get market

842
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,960
in or we'll go get or you
know whatever. I think. I don't

843
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,519
think it should. Yeah, that's
that's a good call. Could they be

844
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:27,239
Yeah, I just I'm curious as
to I think they have the assets to

845
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,559
get Siakam if it comes down to
it. That's well, one, that's

846
00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:34,280
assuming if the Raptors actually want picks
for Pascal, which we don't know.

847
00:54:34,639 --> 00:54:37,440
I mean, I guess if you're
getting Smart as part of that deal,

848
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,039
it's kind of like, oh,
best of both worlds, Smart and picks

849
00:54:40,039 --> 00:54:44,559
and maybe Aldama. There's a nice
little balance there. But I mean,

850
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:47,079
Siakam said to free agency himself,
we just saw Og go for less than

851
00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:52,840
we thought. I'm sure, you
know, IQ like just the upcoming free

852
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,360
agency had to play into that,
or maybe Og really wanted out, and

853
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,920
you know, Siakam was at least
wanted to stay in Toronto as entering this

854
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,880
season. But do they even have
the assets to these other guys that we're

855
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,800
gonna talk about or not, or
that we could talk about marketing? I

856
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:08,679
don't know, that they would have
the best offer, Like if they if

857
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:15,159
we're talking they go all out for
marketing, do they have the maybe do

858
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:16,920
they have the and like that's a
weird thing to say about someone who's maybe

859
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:20,880
a top thirty five player in the
like do we have enough to get him?

860
00:55:21,199 --> 00:55:23,280
They? Probably? My guess would
be they what wouldn't have the best

861
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:28,480
offer for Michal Bridges? No,
I just because you go down the list

862
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:30,519
and you think, like, because
it has to be pretty pick heavy,

863
00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:35,880
because because who's the young guy on
Memphis that a team is thinking like,

864
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,199
who there's not like a quickly Oh, Vince Williams who's on a two way,

865
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,360
and it's just yeah, but there's
not. There's not quickly is like

866
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:45,559
we'll just use him because he's a
good example of like this guy hasn't you

867
00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:47,639
know, performed like a star yet, but we sort of like there's a

868
00:55:47,679 --> 00:55:51,159
lot of reason to believe he can
come pretty close to that and he's young

869
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,159
enough and he'll be like they don't
have that guy, which I think is

870
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,239
needs to be a headliner, even
if you're talking about a bunch of picks,

871
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,440
like you're gonna you need if you're
going for someone like Mark and then

872
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,559
you know Antonobey's different because of the
expiring stuff. But like or the player

873
00:56:04,599 --> 00:56:07,719
option, I guess if you want
to be specific about it, but uh,

874
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:09,719
it's just you need Yeah, Memphis
is gonna have a hard time having

875
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,719
the best offer for like any one
of like real consequence, I think,

876
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,880
which do you think that'd be the
case? Did not used to be the

877
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,239
case, but it is now.
I think that's what it comes down to

878
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,760
for me, is I actually agree
with the way you frame me? You

879
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,119
should probably operate the same way.
But if it's a move where it's if

880
00:56:22,159 --> 00:56:24,559
it's Siakam, I probably just do
it to see if it works. If

881
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:28,920
it's marketing, sure, but if
it's like if the best move you can

882
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,800
make is let's say it's a Kuzma
or Jeremy Grant, guys who are under

883
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:36,480
contract but they're still gonna cost you
a pick or two plus the salaries to

884
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,440
go out, are you making that
move this season? Where it's a note,

885
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:45,159
I would say noticeably, a cut
below fringe star level or like Billiam

886
00:56:45,159 --> 00:56:47,400
Bogdanovich would be another one that would
make make a decent amount of sense there.

887
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,159
That's like, are do you even
have to give up a first round

888
00:56:50,159 --> 00:56:52,000
pick for at that point for that
one though, I don't know what anything

889
00:56:52,039 --> 00:56:57,239
is worth anymore. Like the O
had a ob trade really fucked with your

890
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,559
head, I really did. I
don't know what what uh what value is?

891
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,559
That's probably enough on the Grizzlies.
Do you want to do another team?

892
00:57:04,599 --> 00:57:07,639
Uh? Yeah, let's talk about
since not so much longer we're gonna

893
00:57:07,639 --> 00:57:10,480
go, let's talk about the Thunder
since they're trending. They did just to

894
00:57:10,559 --> 00:57:15,559
Atlanta as we're recording this, And
we've probably asked this question before, but

895
00:57:15,599 --> 00:57:20,440
I'm gonna ask it again and then
give my own answer to it. Do

896
00:57:20,639 --> 00:57:27,119
the Thunder actually need to do anything
to be one of the five to six

897
00:57:27,239 --> 00:57:30,800
teams most likely to win the title
this season? And I'll preface it before

898
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:35,480
you answer. With the Vitals,
they are top five in offense and defense,

899
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:37,840
including in the half court, where
they have the best half court offense

900
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,519
and that's been They're the best three
point shooting team in the league. They

901
00:57:42,519 --> 00:57:45,599
are below average when it comes to
volume, but I've kind of focused on

902
00:57:45,199 --> 00:57:50,960
I really think that they're They're not
a good rebounding team. We know this,

903
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,000
but they've now beaten you know,
the Timberwolves, the Celtics. We

904
00:57:55,039 --> 00:57:58,840
saw them take that. I mean, they've been beating We talked about how

905
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,280
they could use some wins against good
teams, and then they just like they

906
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:05,440
rip rolled the Lakers. I'm not
saying the Lakers are a good team like

907
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,119
ever since they I think it was
that Lakers game was sort of the turning

908
00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:12,199
point for them, which was that
was on November twenty sixth. They've just

909
00:58:12,239 --> 00:58:15,360
been rattling off victories against teams that
you would kid. They're twelve and four

910
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:20,079
during that stretch, plus nine point
six rating. Some of the things we

911
00:58:20,119 --> 00:58:22,880
have focused on, or at least
I have harped on. I won't say

912
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:27,039
they're starting to normalize, but they've
improved to where there was the squishiness with

913
00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:30,880
the starting five. Offensively, that
seems to be coming around a little bit.

914
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:34,880
Josh Giddy has been better, I
would say much better as of late,

915
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,880
because he was working from such a
nader that starting unit during this stretch.

916
00:58:39,239 --> 00:58:44,440
In the thirteen games they've played together, they're shooting forty five percent from

917
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,159
three. They've outscored opponents by thirty
one points in their one hundred and fifty

918
00:58:47,159 --> 00:58:53,159
eight minutes it's not including the Atlanta
game on Wednesday night. So I just

919
00:58:54,159 --> 00:59:00,400
I want to say, I think
that the people who believe they need to

920
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:05,320
trade for a star mistaken because right
now that works within their salary structure.

921
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,880
But long term, with Jaln Williams
eventually gonna need a new deal. Chet

922
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:14,320
Holmgrin, Josh getting himself, you're
very much viewing that as well. We're

923
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,960
making this move because our title window
is now. We know title windows are

924
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:21,519
fickle and are short, and so
we want to maximize the next two to

925
00:59:21,559 --> 00:59:24,400
three years rather than prioritizing the next
six to eight. I don't think that's

926
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,320
a flawed way of thinking. By
the way, I think anyone who's just

927
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,880
criticizing well star doesn't fit into their
salary structure, why would they go after

928
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:35,760
lowry market in It's because you don't
know what could happen next year, the

929
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,320
year after that. So there is
the element of the now. But if

930
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:42,239
you're already good enough to win the
title, you don't need to worry about

931
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,880
that. And so I'm curious to
where you land on this team going into

932
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:50,639
the playoffs winning I'm gonna say three
playoff series to come out of the West

933
00:59:50,639 --> 00:59:52,639
I'm not even saying they need to
win a title, but are they good

934
00:59:52,719 --> 01:00:00,159
enough to do that left alone?
So I think the thing that that should

935
01:00:00,199 --> 01:00:08,199
push them towards going and getting a
big name is kind of the same reason

936
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:13,039
like I don't want them to,
which is that, like, because the

937
01:00:13,039 --> 01:00:15,320
reason you do it is like,
oh shit, like we are maybe the

938
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,639
best team in the West, Like
there's really one or two other teams start,

939
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,559
like, you know, Denver is
Denver, but like you could make

940
01:00:22,559 --> 01:00:24,360
the case that the Thunder. I
think net rating says it that the Thunder

941
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:29,880
have been better than the Wolves,
Like there's at least I would say,

942
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,280
more trustworthy than Minnesota's. For sure, There's there's a discussion to be had

943
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,880
there, for sure. So but
it's like, well, if they're already

944
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,519
this good, like why don't we
just let this group grow together, keep

945
01:00:38,559 --> 01:00:43,480
the powder dry, and like I
don't know, maybe somebody better than Marketing

946
01:00:43,559 --> 01:00:46,039
becomes available and we'll definitely have the
ability to make the best offer for that

947
01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:50,800
guy. Like but at the same
time, you're right here, you might

948
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:55,239
be one guy away. I would
I'm always more conservative about stuff like this

949
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,719
where it's like I kind of don't
want to touch this team if like I've

950
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:05,559
just I want Holmgren and Williams and
SGA to just be there as the top

951
01:01:05,559 --> 01:01:08,079
three guys for you know, you
talk about a sixty eight year window like

952
01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:13,159
there's no such thing like we I
think every smart franchise goes in like two

953
01:01:13,159 --> 01:01:16,159
to three year windows and then they
just reassess after that is the argument for

954
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:22,480
them going to make the trade though, that you have these three now and

955
01:01:22,519 --> 01:01:24,159
then you can fit it into your
salary structure for the next two to three

956
01:01:24,239 --> 01:01:29,559
years. Yeah, let's maximize that. I just like if it were someone

957
01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:32,320
because who's the guy? Because if
it's marketing in like, that's a look,

958
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:37,639
we love marketing, but maybe there's
something better, Like why not aim

959
01:01:37,679 --> 01:01:40,000
even higher if it means waiting a
year or or I don't know. I

960
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:45,159
like, I just I watched that
entire game last night. I'm so I'm

961
01:01:45,239 --> 01:01:47,760
so in, I'm so in on
the thunder. They're so good, like

962
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:53,400
they just so here's where I land. I probably wouldn't. I'm not gonna

963
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:57,559
say that. I mean because I
love so many watching the players and I'm

964
01:01:57,559 --> 01:02:00,400
not even talking about the top end
talent. I know some people try to

965
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,519
frame it as like lou Dort being
expendable, and it's like, I know

966
01:02:02,599 --> 01:02:06,400
he's a radic on the offensive end
at times, but he still has volume

967
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:07,920
on the offensive end, which is
more than you could say for some players,

968
01:02:08,119 --> 01:02:14,440
and his defensive workload it allows you
to insulate so many other people including

969
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:16,360
you know why Shake Gilges Alexander and
part is so good defensively because he gets

970
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,719
to play with JDub and lou Dort. You know why Ja Dubb is so

971
01:02:19,719 --> 01:02:22,000
good defensively because he gets to play
with Loudort and General j and Chet's a

972
01:02:22,039 --> 01:02:28,920
great defensive player right now today as
a rookie like that, I but like

973
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,360
Isaiah Joe Kendrick Williams, I don't
want to see those guys get traded.

974
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:35,599
I don't want to see their minutes
get cut Kok who's not even playing,

975
01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:38,639
Who's man Jame's not playing? My
heart breaks for both those guys. At

976
01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:43,960
the same time, there are different
levels to it. I wouldn't make and

977
01:02:44,039 --> 01:02:46,840
I'm I would be reticent to do
this basically no matter which team I am,

978
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:51,679
I don't want to make the star
trade mid season because it just feels

979
01:02:51,679 --> 01:02:55,760
like much harder to integrate someone who's
completely foreign to your system and your principles

980
01:02:55,800 --> 01:03:00,159
and your ideologies. Mark Dagniel could
probably do it because he does. Look

981
01:03:00,159 --> 01:03:02,079
I don't know if he saw that
I tweeted you. Probably didn't, I

982
01:03:02,119 --> 01:03:06,960
said, Mark Dagno, looks like
John's kind of looks like John Stockton discovered

983
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:13,360
science. Like that's what he reminded
me. But I think if you are

984
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,480
a contender, you should treat yourself
like a contender, and you could stand

985
01:03:16,519 --> 01:03:21,920
to beef up maybe the sixth,
the seventh, the eighth spot in your

986
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:24,000
rotation. Look, there's a very
clear need upfront when you look at rebounding.

987
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:29,639
Maybe just some heft bounce there.
But I also think you could make

988
01:03:29,679 --> 01:03:34,000
the argument. I know he's been
better lately. I'm not trying to be

989
01:03:34,039 --> 01:03:37,519
spicy with this. Josh Giddy is
not a good fit for this team long

990
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:42,440
term. Oh he's the guy you
move one hundred percent. It's not about

991
01:03:42,639 --> 01:03:45,320
we need to trade one of these
guys before they get paid and turn them

992
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,719
into another star. It's no,
we should trade him before we have to

993
01:03:47,719 --> 01:03:51,440
pay him, when his value is
high enough. If they want to roll

994
01:03:51,519 --> 01:03:54,320
him and do the Sam Presti special
into more picks, fine, do that

995
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,719
now might be the time to do
it. If he continues to play well

996
01:03:58,119 --> 01:04:02,360
defenses and Boss dare him to shoot. They had bigs on him for a

997
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,920
good portion of the game. That
is gonna happen in the playoffs. And

998
01:04:05,039 --> 01:04:10,719
I have very little confidence that Josh
Giddy is gonna deliver for you offensively in

999
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:15,280
the playoffs. And so that though, is thinking like, well, if

1000
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:17,320
we're just gonna move him for picks, why not wait until the summer or

1001
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,599
something, because he is technically helping
our team now. He is important now.

1002
01:04:20,719 --> 01:04:24,880
But that sort of brings me back
to is there something where you can

1003
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:29,280
even make Let's acquire not Larry Marketon
who becomes their fourth best player, but

1004
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:33,119
someone who is like their fifth or
sixth best player. You should consider that

1005
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:38,280
if it's on the table, I
would certainly say like sixth or seventh or

1006
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:41,440
eighth, Like, that's not gonna
cost you any Like, that's not gonna

1007
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,199
cost you Caseen Wallace right to go
out and get that guy. It's not

1008
01:04:44,199 --> 01:04:46,400
even gonna cost you, Josh Giddy
if you want the seventh best player in

1009
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:51,920
your rotation. I ultimately think what
they're gonna do is something like and I

1010
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,960
was thinking about this when I was
at the gym today, is wouldn't it

1011
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:59,599
be so if the Bulls were just
so cheap and they wanted to get out

1012
01:04:59,599 --> 01:05:01,559
of money before next season, and
it would be so Sam pressed the of

1013
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,639
oh, like Lonzo's starting to run, Like we'll turn Damas Britton's into Lonzo

1014
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:10,599
and see if Lonzo can be anything
for us. And so it's just like,

1015
01:05:10,679 --> 01:05:13,960
yeah, there's redundancies there with Josh
Gidty, but just like someone who

1016
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,920
is under contract for next season,
maybe even it wouldn't shock me if they

1017
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,480
were the team that traded for John
Collins just to say, maybe doesn't play

1018
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:24,599
a lot for us, but this
is a salary anchor we could use into

1019
01:05:24,639 --> 01:05:28,320
trade if we want to, whose
salary will be off the books by the

1020
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,679
time all these other guys are making
this money. That's probably the move they

1021
01:05:30,679 --> 01:05:35,559
make, which I think is fine, but I do have if I'm distrusting

1022
01:05:35,639 --> 01:05:41,639
something about them. I look at
how they might be susceptible to bigger teams

1023
01:05:42,119 --> 01:05:45,320
on the glass, or they could
be tossed around on the front line if

1024
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:48,079
you're playing more of these physical teams, And then there's something about their offense

1025
01:05:48,719 --> 01:05:54,920
that I just don't trust where it
feels like they could maybe use someone who's

1026
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:59,119
gonna get up threes in more volume, or just an improvement, a spacing

1027
01:05:59,159 --> 01:06:02,199
improvement over some of the Josh Giddy
or Lou Dort min it's in the sense

1028
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:08,000
of how our defense is going to
guard these players or even and I think

1029
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:12,480
Jay Dubb is getting better here,
but sort of in not even in every

1030
01:06:12,559 --> 01:06:15,960
level score, but in every level
ball handler. And I've said this way

1031
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,760
too many times over the past few
weeks, but like someone who has some

1032
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:23,679
half court jiggle and joggle. Yeah, I think one of the interesting things.

1033
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,480
And they definitely did this against the
Celtics and have been doing it more.

1034
01:06:26,599 --> 01:06:30,800
It used to be Williams would kind
of run second units, and like

1035
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:32,760
it was always tough because you know, Sja wouldn't be out there a lot

1036
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,920
of times, Chet wouldn't be out
there, and so he's trying to He's

1037
01:06:36,039 --> 01:06:40,480
kind of overburdened in that role to
begin with, and there just wasn't a

1038
01:06:40,519 --> 01:06:44,280
lot of support. They're playing Meetshitch
a lot more with and he's got the

1039
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:48,079
ball right in second units and like
that's I mean, he you know,

1040
01:06:48,559 --> 01:06:51,719
he's not gonna blow by anybody,
but like that's a point guard and he

1041
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:58,039
and he is really like there have
been stretches where he is unlocking stuff that

1042
01:06:58,039 --> 01:07:00,480
that Jada just like couldn't, which
is fine. It's like you can't ask

1043
01:07:00,559 --> 01:07:03,960
him to be, you know,
a primary initiator with no support out there

1044
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:08,800
and expect success. So like there
are still even with this roster because me

1045
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:13,480
just like was not playing and now
I think it really actually matters to second

1046
01:07:13,559 --> 01:07:17,000
units. So like that's all to
say is that Nip and vim to what

1047
01:07:17,079 --> 01:07:20,679
he's doing on and off the ball
when you're watching too, So like that's

1048
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,960
I mean, good find. I
mean I I really killed that acquisition,

1049
01:07:25,679 --> 01:07:28,719
just really like great timing by me, like right before he started to play

1050
01:07:28,719 --> 01:07:31,159
a lot and it was was good. Suddenly I also killed member. I

1051
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,519
killed them for giving up too much
to move up two spots and get Case

1052
01:07:34,559 --> 01:07:39,079
and Wallace. And now I'm like, well, yep, so much for

1053
01:07:39,119 --> 01:07:42,280
that. I mean, we're just
wrong across the board about the thunder basically,

1054
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,119
like that's why you should listen to
us. Yes we're never right,

1055
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:49,079
but we admit it. We'll always
admit it. Don't doesn't doesn't party.

1056
01:07:49,119 --> 01:07:53,400
You just want to not mess with
this team at all and just see,

1057
01:07:53,679 --> 01:07:57,519
like what you can't I think reasonably
you can't. But if there's if you

1058
01:07:57,519 --> 01:08:01,039
can move players who aren't really playing, like you know, Dallas Mpon's and

1059
01:08:01,039 --> 01:08:03,400
then some of these youngsters who are
just not like they don't even have a

1060
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:08,280
role moving forward, and if it's
a lower end first to get someone who

1061
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:11,599
might play for you, be your
seventh guy in the playoffs, Yeah,

1062
01:08:11,639 --> 01:08:13,480
I think you have to look at
it. I don't know who that is,

1063
01:08:13,519 --> 01:08:15,399
but like everyone's assuming it. You
know you you talked about it.

1064
01:08:15,279 --> 01:08:18,720
It doesn't need to be a star. Is was both of our points.

1065
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:23,479
It's like, maybe it's a and
but it's like because me just is playing.

1066
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,479
It's well, even if Bud Dog
about Donovich became available, is that

1067
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:30,359
someone you added, the answer should
be yes, because he's an upgrade over

1068
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:32,279
this. But I get the instinct
of we don't want to mess with this

1069
01:08:32,359 --> 01:08:36,840
team right now. But that brings
me back to my overarching question of even

1070
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:41,119
if we don't want to mess with
this team, can you envision them winning

1071
01:08:41,159 --> 01:08:45,920
a title as currently constructive? And
if that's the point of this entire fucking

1072
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:49,760
thing, the answer matters, and
it matters because of what we just talked

1073
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,640
about with title windows. It's great
to say, well, no, they'll

1074
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:57,800
grow together. You can't guarantee that. And the other thing I'll say,

1075
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,159
we've talked enough about chet in general
on this podcast. Asked he is,

1076
01:09:01,399 --> 01:09:03,439
I don't. I don't think it's
being said up that he's like the second

1077
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,720
best player on what might be the
best team in the regular season in the

1078
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:13,520
NBA. But when is the like, when's the last time a rookie missed

1079
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,880
his entire first someone missed their entire
first season due to injury and just never

1080
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:20,479
had any injury concerns for the rest
of their career. I mean, why

1081
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:27,319
would you why would you speak that
evil into I'm just trying to spotlight the

1082
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:30,159
point of i mean, even Blake
Griffin kind of had her checkered health bill,

1083
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:34,239
like probably earlier than you would have
expected, like Simmons and Embiid,

1084
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:41,760
was Blake Griffin the closest thing to
a recent exception? Oh, like,

1085
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,079
well, because he was fairly healthy
until he really wasn't with the knee stuff.

1086
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:47,319
Yeah, probably that's a hard We
should research that, but yeah,

1087
01:09:47,399 --> 01:09:54,000
no point taking it's rare, and
so it's so that is wrap it up

1088
01:09:54,039 --> 01:09:58,479
there right now? How many teams
would you pick in front of them to

1089
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,079
win the title? Did without the
Thunder making any changes. I mean,

1090
01:10:01,119 --> 01:10:05,680
it's like it's the usual suspects.
It's like Boston, Denver, and then

1091
01:10:06,079 --> 01:10:10,920
you've got to start like Minnesota is
like maybe, and then who am I

1092
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,479
forgetting? Like Milwaukee's a maybe,
although they can't beat the Pacers, so

1093
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,720
I don't know how they're supposed to
win a title. Yeah, they're right

1094
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:23,039
there. So all the way back
to the original question, like the reason

1095
01:10:23,079 --> 01:10:27,000
I would say the Thunder can't,
can't, will won't win the title this

1096
01:10:27,079 --> 01:10:29,840
year is like they're just too young
and this just never happens, like you

1097
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,760
know that, it's just always you
always got to go get beat by the

1098
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:36,359
Denvers of the world in the conference
finals or maybe before that before you really

1099
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:43,199
break through. So like that's a
stupid argument because there's nothing like that actually

1100
01:10:43,239 --> 01:10:46,159
addresses like the team itself. It's
just like, well, based on historic

1101
01:10:46,199 --> 01:10:49,079
trends, like you just don't,
you just don't do it this young,

1102
01:10:49,159 --> 01:10:54,359
Like it's just not what happens.
So like I don't know which way that

1103
01:10:54,399 --> 01:10:58,199
cuts as far as like should they
go get guys get veterans or something,

1104
01:10:58,319 --> 01:11:00,439
or just leave it alone and trust
that in two years there we won't be

1105
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:03,600
able to say they're too young because
they've you know, they've scaled up through

1106
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:09,199
several playoff rounds. This is our
roundabout way of definitively hedging where it's saying,

1107
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:13,039
don't say the thunder need to trade
for a star, but don't just

1108
01:11:13,119 --> 01:11:15,920
assume that they have all the pieces
in place and that this thing is built

1109
01:11:16,279 --> 01:11:19,880
to last or built to get over
the top. It just doesn't typically work.

1110
01:11:20,359 --> 01:11:24,880
I mean. The other thing,
too, is like, I mean,

1111
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:29,880
we're just going way too far afield
here, but like Sga is not

1112
01:11:30,239 --> 01:11:32,319
you know, twenty two, like
this he is right now, Like this

1113
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:38,039
is about as well as a guard
can play professional basketball, come off as

1114
01:11:38,039 --> 01:11:41,600
fun Max eventually, as Brian Windhors
calls coming off the fun Max eventually,

1115
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:45,399
and just like it's you know,
most of the other guys you can say,

1116
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:47,960
you know, at least with with
Holmgren and Williams, like there's upside

1117
01:11:48,159 --> 01:11:53,640
still to come, I think almost
definitely, But with Sga, like maybe

1118
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:57,199
this cuts towards they should trade.
It's like this guy is great, like

1119
01:11:57,359 --> 01:12:00,560
right now and there's no guarantee that
help this healthy front of him on the

1120
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:04,239
MVP vault. Right now, where
is he on the MVP ballot? Who's

1121
01:12:04,239 --> 01:12:06,600
in front of him? Say,
I got the same question. Just I

1122
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:11,079
mean, you can't. You can
have embiid, you can have Jokic and

1123
01:12:11,079 --> 01:12:15,920
then' and honestly, I don't even
know if you're gonna have to worry about

1124
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,439
games played where bead ends up and
then like Jokic has kind of had that

1125
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:23,279
weird rough stretch, it might just
it might just be Shay. I haven't

1126
01:12:23,359 --> 01:12:26,960
dug deep enough into it, but
he is in the top five and he's

1127
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,760
not four or five. No,
No, that's right. Like you could

1128
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,680
talk about like Halliburton and Luca I
guess, but it's like it's Shay.

1129
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:35,239
He's he's ahead of those two guys. So yeah, no, Like like

1130
01:12:36,079 --> 01:12:39,760
maybe maybe, as I'm saying,
as we're talking about that, it's kind

1131
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:45,560
of like you have an MVP candidate
in smacking his prime, you're gonna wait

1132
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:48,479
to go get more talent around him, Like that's the plan that that seems

1133
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:53,279
iffy when you frame it that way. You have another team that you want

1134
01:12:53,279 --> 01:12:56,600
to talk about. Yeah, it's
it's, uh, it's gonna be less

1135
01:12:57,279 --> 01:12:59,960
scintillating than the Thunder, who are
just so much fun to talk about.

1136
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,880
But so I picked the Clippers.
And mostly it's just because I was thinking

1137
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:09,199
the other day about just like what's
the West hierarchy? How are we organizing

1138
01:13:09,239 --> 01:13:12,560
these tiers? And admittedly, like
the Thunder kind of spurred me to this.

1139
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,319
So it's like you've got Denver sort
of as its own group because like,

1140
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:18,760
not only are the Nuggets really good, but they've done it, and

1141
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:23,560
then there's Minnesota and Okasee and then
it's like, I don't know, it

1142
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:26,199
just just have to be the Clippers
after that, or do you have the

1143
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:30,159
Clippers in like a clump with whoever
you would like to throw up there?

1144
01:13:30,199 --> 01:13:33,159
New Orleans, Dallas, Phoenix.
I'd probably free the Lakers or a little

1145
01:13:33,199 --> 01:13:38,159
farther down. But so I wanted
to do like a little update on the

1146
01:13:38,199 --> 01:13:41,720
Clippers. So here's some of the
fundamentals before we start talking about them.

1147
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:46,159
They're twenty and twelve as heading into
January third games. They have the number

1148
01:13:46,159 --> 01:13:50,039
four net rating tied with Minnesota at
plus six point six, their seventh in

1149
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:55,479
offense, eighth in defense. So
they lost those five straight right after getting

1150
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,079
hard and since then they're seventeen and
five. That's the best record in the

1151
01:13:58,159 --> 01:14:01,399
league plus eight point six obviously better
than their full season sixth and the offense

1152
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:05,800
sixth in defense. All their losses
except they got beat by the Warriors in

1153
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:11,399
that stretch, have come against like
very good teams Denver, OKC, Boston,

1154
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,680
the Pelicans. So like the Clippers
are kicking ass against the teams they

1155
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,399
should beat, they're competing against the
best teams because they've beaten a couple of

1156
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:23,119
those two. Kawhi has had stretches. He missed time finally, but like

1157
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:27,840
was healthy and was basically playing about
as well as he's ever played. He's

1158
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:30,079
on pace right now, believe it
or not, to set a career high

1159
01:14:30,159 --> 01:14:34,680
and effective field goal percentage because he's
making threes like crazy. He's like this

1160
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:38,920
Kawhi Leonard is gonna set a career
high in something. He's on pace to.

1161
01:14:39,079 --> 01:14:42,119
Like It's not like some guy that's
just you know, on the upswing,

1162
01:14:42,199 --> 01:14:45,199
Like this is a guy that has
been in the conversation as like is

1163
01:14:45,239 --> 01:14:47,600
he the best player in the world, like more than once. So that's

1164
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,000
a big so and that's the key, right, because if you're gonna say

1165
01:14:51,079 --> 01:14:58,279
which I am, that the Clippers
I think belong like right below or maybe

1166
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:01,000
on the bottom end of the same
tier as like Minnesota, and Okay,

1167
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:06,359
see, it only is true if
Kawhi is that guy, because if he's

1168
01:15:08,159 --> 01:15:11,479
obviously injured, like we're just gonna
skirt the whole health question, which is

1169
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,640
the entire reason that neither of us
I think believed in the Clippers being all

1170
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:16,279
that good this year. If he's
not that guy, then it's like,

1171
01:15:16,279 --> 01:15:19,079
well, you got Paul George and
Harden and neither of them have much of

1172
01:15:19,119 --> 01:15:23,279
a playoff track record, and that's
just not good enough. But if Kawhi

1173
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:27,119
is someone that in any given series
can just be the best guy on the

1174
01:15:27,119 --> 01:15:30,880
floor the whole time, then like, I don't know what you're quibbling about

1175
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:35,199
with the Clippers, Like what do
they need that you want a more switchable

1176
01:15:35,199 --> 01:15:41,920
big you want maybe that's one of
the best rim protectors in the league,

1177
01:15:42,119 --> 01:15:45,720
right It's I mean, their numbers
defensively with Zubats on the floor are just

1178
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:48,199
like, well they're great, Like
so I don't know, the playoffs are

1179
01:15:48,199 --> 01:15:51,640
different, and you can imagine him
getting kind of you know, attacked in

1180
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:56,680
different specific ways. Like it's kind
of the same idea why Rudy Gobert has

1181
01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:00,079
had playoff troubles after just being clearly
the best defensive player in the league for

1182
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:06,760
several seasons. So I just I
think the update needs to be if the

1183
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:13,600
Clippers are healthy, like and Kawhi
is this version of Kawhi. They're absolutely

1184
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:16,520
like in that top tier, I
think, or very very close to it,

1185
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:19,159
like you do what you want,
Like Boston and Denver, I think

1186
01:16:19,159 --> 01:16:25,640
they're kind of maybe on their own, but the Clippers are like what their

1187
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:30,560
most optimistic, like injuries aren't a
thing you know, supporters thought they could

1188
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,600
be, and I was definitely not
one of them. And I'm very surprised

1189
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,680
that, Like I've kind of come
around at this point and finding myself a

1190
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:40,279
little bit of a believer. But
where are you on the Clippers? And

1191
01:16:40,319 --> 01:16:45,279
then other than like maybe a switchable
big that's better than Daniel Tice or like

1192
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,520
some kind of trade you build around
Norm Powell or Russ to get just something

1193
01:16:50,399 --> 01:16:56,119
a bigger wing. Maybe what are
your thoughts there? Yeah, I said

1194
01:16:56,119 --> 01:16:59,640
to you that I can't bring myself
to having passion takes on the Clippers,

1195
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:02,880
despite knowing how good they've been,
I think because it's just will you all

1196
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:08,640
be there and available when the season's
over, which is exactly what we said

1197
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,119
at the start of the year.
So we're kind of weirdly in the exact

1198
01:17:11,119 --> 01:17:14,279
same place. But I didn't expect
to be in this place having to asked

1199
01:17:14,319 --> 01:17:17,439
that right now, they do feel
better built to navigate that uncertainty because now

1200
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:21,800
it's okay, three real stars,
and if whis out, it's just so

1201
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:27,039
much different having Paul George and James
hart Harden rather than just Paul George and

1202
01:17:27,119 --> 01:17:31,079
maybe Russell Westbrook or you know,
and vice versa. James Harden has adapted

1203
01:17:31,119 --> 01:17:33,720
really well to playing with the Clippers
too. I think that is something that

1204
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:40,079
surprised me. I never we were
probably both either cautiously optimistic or cautiously skeptical

1205
01:17:40,159 --> 01:17:43,840
both whatever. After the trade,
he is still I assume that it would

1206
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:45,760
work. To some extent. It
has worked far better. They've even started

1207
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,039
to find like some lineups where him
and Russ just work together, and so

1208
01:17:48,079 --> 01:17:50,960
it's like if they don't have to
worry about some of these combinations. It

1209
01:17:51,119 --> 01:17:57,239
just makes sense that Terrence man Zubach
plus the Big three lineup gob smacking opponents

1210
01:17:57,399 --> 01:18:00,000
killing. But yeah, and that's
with Terrence Manage not shooting well from three

1211
01:18:00,039 --> 01:18:04,479
during He's got like seventy from three. Uh since the since they lost those

1212
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:10,760
five straight games, I don't know
what this team would need to cement its

1213
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,520
status. I could see just I
know you mentioned a more switchable big,

1214
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:16,880
but it's like they can kind of
still top Like I think what they actually

1215
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:21,079
need is PJ. Tucker from half
decade ago, and so is that player

1216
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:25,319
like to And it's not even as
a mainstay, it's just to be able

1217
01:18:25,319 --> 01:18:29,319
to pull that lever in the postseason. I don't know what player out there

1218
01:18:29,319 --> 01:18:32,520
would fit that. Bill like,
is it just is it nause Marshall?

1219
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,840
Does he come like is it something
just on that type of a scale.

1220
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:39,680
I'm like, I'm grasping a struse. I don't I don't know who the

1221
01:18:40,159 --> 01:18:44,520
actual player is that you go after
there. And I'm also just wondering if

1222
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:47,079
you are them, you're playing this
well and we just mentioned this with a

1223
01:18:47,119 --> 01:18:50,479
thunder, why break up the good
vibes? If you're the Clippers, are

1224
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:55,720
you more inclined to still do something
because you've seen how this movie might end

1225
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:58,239
before. Is it just like,
well, this is a different level than

1226
01:18:58,279 --> 01:19:02,720
we've really ever reached, and we
have insulated ourselves a little bit against some

1227
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:08,199
disasters that we do let this stay. Maybe they signed someone off the buyout

1228
01:19:08,239 --> 01:19:11,720
heap later on after the trade deadline. That's a great point. You would

1229
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:15,239
imagine that there'll be a very like, you know, all things being equal,

1230
01:19:15,239 --> 01:19:17,319
there will be a lot of guys
that would rather sign there than other

1231
01:19:17,359 --> 01:19:20,199
places, so they'll have a big
advantage there. I think. So you

1232
01:19:20,239 --> 01:19:25,279
mentioned the Terrence Man lineup that's like
it's plus seventeen point one with the Big

1233
01:19:25,319 --> 01:19:31,239
three and zubots. The one with
Powell is plus plus fifty five. I

1234
01:19:31,279 --> 01:19:33,920
was gonna say that you mentioned trading
him before, and I'm like, he's

1235
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:38,119
playing, so well, why would
you do that? I know you wouldn't,

1236
01:19:38,199 --> 01:19:41,840
So that that answers your question is
like you know, I the like

1237
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,640
the last step in an exercise like
this is always like, well, okay,

1238
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:47,920
so what what should they be targeting
or like what do they need?

1239
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:51,239
I think probably in this case,
like you just leave it alone. This

1240
01:19:51,279 --> 01:19:56,600
is another leave it alone. We
had two straight leave it alone because you

1241
01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:01,039
know it's not like I think if
you have Leonard and Man and George,

1242
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:05,239
like, you can get away with
Zubots like kind of being stressed a little

1243
01:20:05,279 --> 01:20:09,359
bit having to defend in space,
you can you can work around that a

1244
01:20:09,399 --> 01:20:12,800
little. I think, would you
consider like a Dori Infinity Smith or do

1245
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,319
you not think that you can give
you any minutes at the five? Always?

1246
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:17,359
I would always consider him, Yeah, man Maxi Kliba if he was

1247
01:20:17,399 --> 01:20:23,119
ever healthy? Oh would you would
you consider? But again, like the

1248
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:25,680
stuff that, it's where I don't
want to give up. Now I have

1249
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:28,880
to look at their salaries because I'm
at the point where well, no,

1250
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:31,920
you're not gonna trade Zubots and you
can't trade, oh you do PJ.

1251
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:35,640
Tucker's money. And so it's like
if you could get a guy where you're

1252
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:39,520
gonna attach PJ. Tucker to a
pick and you're still keeping man, you

1253
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:44,600
also plumbly salary as well, so
they can they actually get some pretty pricey

1254
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:46,760
players in here. So where like
MASSI what I was gonna the name I

1255
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,520
was gonna mention, does Grant Williams
do anything for you on this team?

1256
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:57,399
Oh? I mean that's your that's
your like matchup specific switchable playoff five right,

1257
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:00,399
Like that's the guy that you throw
out there against. I mean,

1258
01:21:00,399 --> 01:21:02,000
I also think Dallas views him that
way too, So it's like, I

1259
01:21:02,079 --> 01:21:05,640
don't know. I look at Dallas
Tucker and something we've seen that they don't

1260
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:09,920
have the other personnel to make that
work though, is what I think they're

1261
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:13,359
finding out. Yeah, the Clippers
do. That's that's right. Yeah,

1262
01:21:13,359 --> 01:21:15,119
he would be. He would be
more helpful on the Clippers than Dallas.

1263
01:21:15,119 --> 01:21:18,000
That's right. I am assuming this
guy's untouchable. But I did if this

1264
01:21:18,239 --> 01:21:21,039
if their pick is on the the
one first round pick they give up,

1265
01:21:21,039 --> 01:21:27,479
which is that a twenty thirty pick
I trade? I think that's right.

1266
01:21:28,239 --> 01:21:30,520
I'll double check that really quick.
If you just put that on the table

1267
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:36,600
and what and you're and you're Atlanta, you consider just because you're so cheap

1268
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:43,000
giving up Jalen Johnson. That's a
that's such a distant pick for Jalen Johnson.

1269
01:21:43,079 --> 01:21:45,720
Jalen Johnson will be on his like
his third contract by the time that

1270
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:49,119
pick comes due. I thought you
were gonna say, like Draymond Green or

1271
01:21:49,119 --> 01:21:53,920
something like that, if you're trying
to get the ultimate switchable five that you

1272
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:57,159
could get to the money if you
went like a three for one without really

1273
01:21:57,159 --> 01:22:01,479
touching the Yeah, so it is
a I think they can give up their

1274
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:05,760
twenty thirty first round pick. I
mean, Jalen Johnson be perfect for this

1275
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:09,600
team. Jaim jots to be perfect
for a lot of teams. But that's

1276
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:12,560
just like he's cheap, so you're
not giving up any core players to get

1277
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:15,399
him. I know, Bones Island's
not gonna do anything for the Hawks.

1278
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:18,239
Is there like any like you could
throw in some other type of seconds if

1279
01:22:18,279 --> 01:22:21,119
you want to, like in a
Mirre coffee or something, just to like

1280
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:25,399
sort of wet their beak to see
it. But if they were just they're

1281
01:22:25,399 --> 01:22:28,079
worried about if they're tearing it down, they don't want to pay him because

1282
01:22:28,079 --> 01:22:30,720
I have no idea what they're doing. I'm just like a twenty thirty first

1283
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:34,600
for Jalen Johnson. I don't know. And maybe the Clippers wouldn't do that

1284
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:39,560
because how much does Jalen Johnson play
wan to beat Zoobotchin six exists? Excuse

1285
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:42,760
me? I think the Hawks are
saying no to that. And well,

1286
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:46,000
if it's like an unprotected twenty thirty
first, say top three. I mean,

1287
01:22:46,039 --> 01:22:49,520
the thing is none of the Hawks
executives making that decision will be there

1288
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:53,600
to cash in that pick. So
why all right? Fair? That's fair?

1289
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:59,359
That would be Yeah, if you
had like a lifetime contract as a

1290
01:22:59,399 --> 01:23:01,039
GM, maybe you do that,
But I don't know. So we're thinking

1291
01:23:01,119 --> 01:23:04,239
more like PJ. Talker in some
seconds for Chris Bouchet, yeah, or

1292
01:23:04,279 --> 01:23:10,560
like or like you said, this
is the case for a lot of teams.

1293
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:13,560
The Warriors have like five guys where
this is true. It's like,

1294
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:16,720
just give me the several years ago
version of this player and everything is fixed.

1295
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:21,640
Like Tucker from twenty eighteen would just
be like rock like rockets, Pete

1296
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:27,279
rockets, PJ. Tucker would make
the Clippers like insanely good. Do you

1297
01:23:27,319 --> 01:23:30,920
think there? And would you consider
does the twenty thirty and then money?

1298
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:34,600
Does that get you? PJ?
Washington? Hmmm? What did Washington sign

1299
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:41,000
for like three years and he's making
sixteen million a year? Basically a Tucker

1300
01:23:41,039 --> 01:23:45,119
in the twenty thirty Charlotte again,
same thing. The cup check will not

1301
01:23:45,199 --> 01:23:48,880
be there to cash in that pick, but like Charlotte should do that cup

1302
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:54,079
check is also I feel like he's
on a farewell torn knows it, so

1303
01:23:54,159 --> 01:23:57,840
maybe he does it just because He's
like, well, I mean, what

1304
01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:00,000
is he doing though? What do
you mean he knows it? What are

1305
01:24:00,039 --> 01:24:02,720
is? What actions he should be
Some of the comments he was saying when

1306
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:06,239
he was talking about the way that
the PJ Washington negotiations shook out, it

1307
01:24:06,319 --> 01:24:09,560
was just like, Oh, this
dude knows that his days are numbered.

1308
01:24:10,159 --> 01:24:12,600
Well he should, he should,
He has reason to know. He certainly

1309
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:15,800
should know that. Let's see,
is it your turner, my turn?

1310
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:18,600
What do you want to do here? Uh? I have so some quick

1311
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:23,600
hitter ones. I wanted to focus
on the Bulls a little bit, who

1312
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:28,159
appeared to be coming back down to
earth. Uh. They are still above

1313
01:24:28,199 --> 01:24:32,720
water since the zach Lavine injury.
He Billy Donovan gave the latest update on

1314
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:38,000
him and he's still on course to
return soon. Since he's been out,

1315
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:41,840
I know Kobe White has cooled off. He's still been amazing overall. He's

1316
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:45,479
shooting over fifty percent on twes,
thirty eight point three percent on threes,

1317
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:47,920
shooting the eighty plus percent at the
foul line. He's been still averaging over

1318
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:53,119
twenty points. This is not including
the next game from Wednesday night. Andre

1319
01:24:53,199 --> 01:24:56,520
Drummond's been great even in the Kola
Vucevic's absence. I do think it helps

1320
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:59,640
him. He is very when you
look at him going up against like any

1321
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,720
sort of team that can be fast
or play athletically, He's still at a

1322
01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:08,399
disadvantage even with having Caruso, Javon
carter ioh those guys in front of him.

1323
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:12,239
Patrick Williams has been at times a
monster on the defensive end. Tomato

1324
01:25:12,359 --> 01:25:16,119
Rosen there's very clearly a regression,
but he's also still just been money in

1325
01:25:16,199 --> 01:25:21,079
the clutch. What are you?
Has this changed? Like your opinion of

1326
01:25:21,119 --> 01:25:26,000
the Bulls at all, this stretch
without Levine, the stretch that we've kind

1327
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:29,800
of seen them play without. You
know, there are other guys vouch a

1328
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:35,000
little bit like do you look at
it by saying and sort of knowing the

1329
01:25:35,039 --> 01:25:40,560
history of the Bulls where okay,
we know what they should do, but

1330
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:44,039
like the fact that they've been competent. Now, could they get to a

1331
01:25:44,079 --> 01:25:48,159
point where if we flip Zach Levine
for someone who we deem as a better

1332
01:25:48,199 --> 01:25:53,239
fit, maybe two or three players, and like perhaps our offenses because the

1333
01:25:53,279 --> 01:25:56,800
problem is still kind of their offense. By the way, they're sixteenth in

1334
01:25:56,840 --> 01:26:00,560
point score per possession since the zach
Lvine injury, and they've looked miss zach

1335
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:02,279
Lavine at points just because of the
stuff that he could do on offense.

1336
01:26:03,399 --> 01:26:09,560
Do you still have you has what's
happened, Has what transpired changed the way

1337
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:13,399
you think they should operate for the
rest of this season and moving forward or

1338
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:15,880
not? You think if you were
running this team, but at least opened

1339
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:19,600
an avenue to where you'd be okay
with them exploring alternative or is it still

1340
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:26,359
just no, we're overthinking this,
tear it down. I think specifically Kobe

1341
01:26:26,399 --> 01:26:31,720
White looking you know, so much
better is the is the piece that and

1342
01:26:32,079 --> 01:26:35,520
Williams to a lesser extent, although
like both you know, Williams has had

1343
01:26:36,319 --> 01:26:42,600
plenty of runway and just has kind
of been this guy for his whole career.

1344
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:47,720
I think those two guys make it
a little more plausible to view like

1345
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:54,000
I think nothing has changed about you
should trade zach Lavine. I think maybe

1346
01:26:54,039 --> 01:26:59,399
what you're talking about makes it a
little more defensible to do, Like we'll

1347
01:26:59,399 --> 01:27:00,920
call it the terr on Oh route, where it's like we'll just get players

1348
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:03,840
back. We don't want three first, We'll just we would like guys that

1349
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:09,439
can get on the floor right now
and like fill needs right that's more defensible.

1350
01:27:10,079 --> 01:27:13,920
But I still look at it as
like take DeRozan like he's gonna be

1351
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:15,800
a free agent, you trade him, Like that's just that is what it

1352
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:19,359
is, because because if you're keeping
him, you're saying like we're going for

1353
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:23,279
it this year, and then we're
thinking about real like I'm just like,

1354
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:26,279
we can't do this. We just
you just did it with Vucevich. You

1355
01:27:26,279 --> 01:27:30,640
can't double down and keep another thirty
something that has led your team to nothing

1356
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:35,800
over the last several years. So
like you for just the financial like contractual

1357
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:39,960
status of DeRozan says you have you
trade, you have to trade him,

1358
01:27:40,279 --> 01:27:44,000
Uh, Levine, I think if
I don't know what the package is for

1359
01:27:44,079 --> 01:27:46,039
him, I'd still rather get picks
and stuff or like really young guys and

1360
01:27:46,159 --> 01:27:50,960
dead dead money that's gonna come off
soon a deal for me. But I

1361
01:27:51,319 --> 01:27:56,399
think to your point, like some
signs of life that's positive at least opens

1362
01:27:56,439 --> 01:28:00,159
your spectrum of opportunities for like,
cause you just don't know what's gonna be

1363
01:28:00,239 --> 01:28:01,840
on offer for Levine, so you
may have to take a deal that is

1364
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:08,279
like a little more player heavy than
pick heavy. That makes this that makes

1365
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:11,640
what the Bulls are doing now makes
that like a little more palatable. But

1366
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:15,079
I'm still in I haven't seen enough
to make me think like, if I'm

1367
01:28:15,159 --> 01:28:16,840
running this team, I'm doing anything
other than just like gutting it. I

1368
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:20,199
think I think like that that's still
the way to go for me. I

1369
01:28:20,239 --> 01:28:24,840
think I'm with you and also part
of the calculus here for me, And

1370
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:28,680
I don't really know what that's just
one or the other. That Ogiana nobetrayed

1371
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:33,039
almost took out two theoretical zach Lavine
suitors in one shot, because now that

1372
01:28:33,079 --> 01:28:36,199
you have quickly embarratted, I don't
know the Raptors every would have been interested

1373
01:28:36,199 --> 01:28:40,560
in zach Lvine. We made a
lot more sense on the previous iteration of

1374
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:45,800
the roster, just like zach Lvine
I think probably made more sense on the

1375
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:48,279
previous iteration of the roster of the
Knicks, just because they wouldn't have had

1376
01:28:48,279 --> 01:28:50,399
to maybe give up as much picks
to get him. And now it's well,

1377
01:28:50,439 --> 01:28:55,119
all we have rights to get him. So even if you think he

1378
01:28:55,239 --> 01:28:59,520
might be a better fit because they
did lose some shot creation juice, it's

1379
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:01,880
just well, we're not going to
give up the equity of taking to get

1380
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:05,840
him at this point because our best
salary matching, because now it's it's Fournier

1381
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:11,279
and what you're using to get to
Zaclovin's salary a player that matters. And

1382
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:14,479
I think, like, you know, just to compare him to Murray,

1383
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:18,279
if you go get Murray as the
Knicks, you're not foreclosed on getting someone

1384
01:29:18,319 --> 01:29:21,159
who makes as much as Levine does. But if you go get Levine and

1385
01:29:21,199 --> 01:29:25,239
then you have to pay Ananobe whatever
you're gonna have to pay him, and

1386
01:29:25,239 --> 01:29:30,800
then you've got to figure out Brunson
Anne Randall, like you're not getting another

1387
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:34,199
like capital G guy, Like that's
that's kind of it, just because Leavine

1388
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:40,840
his salary is so much greater than
than Murray's. Like, just don't I

1389
01:29:41,039 --> 01:29:44,199
just really hope the Knicks don't get
I hope Levine is not that guy.

1390
01:29:44,279 --> 01:29:46,960
I don't think he is. No, Like he just he better not be.

1391
01:29:47,079 --> 01:29:51,199
We've already we've already lined up the
plan. It's get Murray and then

1392
01:29:51,439 --> 01:29:56,159
get McHale, Bridges or Joel Embiid. That's the that's the master plan.

1393
01:29:57,119 --> 01:30:00,239
Bridges And I know you said this
Bridges in Ananobe is a lot lot of

1394
01:30:00,239 --> 01:30:03,079
fun that would be a lot of
fun. Where is Bridges, Annobe,

1395
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:09,680
Jalen Brunson and Jjontay Murray, Like
what does that do for you? If

1396
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:13,800
that's what they want, and then
you're gonna have big X. Mitchell Robinson's

1397
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:15,119
probably still there. Well, he
might need to go out in the mckal

1398
01:30:15,159 --> 01:30:19,800
bridges trade. Oh yeah, that
we're predicting well he would, because you

1399
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:26,159
know, I mean that's such a
that's such a like that is a nasty

1400
01:30:26,199 --> 01:30:28,920
team. Like those four guys are
really good. I don't know, I

1401
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:32,479
don't know, are they Like are
they they're on par like talent wise with

1402
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:35,840
just almost anybody's top four really right, I would assume they would have at

1403
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:40,800
least one of Josh Hart and Devincenzo
there still maybe even as qu Quent Grondin

1404
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:43,960
is probably gone by that point.
You gotta I mean, you've got to

1405
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,119
have a big I don't know who
that big is, but like that's kind

1406
01:30:46,159 --> 01:30:49,239
of the easiest thing to go get
really if you've got your one, two,

1407
01:30:49,279 --> 01:30:53,239
three, four, like just set. I love Mitchell Robinson, but

1408
01:30:53,319 --> 01:30:58,560
like what he does is going to
be easier to approximate on the cheap than

1409
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:02,039
what Jalen Brunson does, or what
even you know Josh Hart does and even

1410
01:31:02,039 --> 01:31:04,680
what Julius Randall does. Quite frankly, when you're looking at shot creation,

1411
01:31:05,079 --> 01:31:10,600
it's true you have one more team, right yeah, just real quick,

1412
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:15,680
I don't know if we've you've you've
picked the interesting ones. I think I

1413
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:17,840
want to do a check in on
the Suns just real quick. Eighteen to

1414
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,039
fifteen plus two point one, eleventh
in offense, thirteenth in defense. Like

1415
01:31:21,079 --> 01:31:26,760
all pretty solid considering the injuries that
they've had. The one thing that like,

1416
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:30,119
if you're looking for the I don't
know if it's an achilles heel,

1417
01:31:30,119 --> 01:31:32,319
because this team is not like a
true contender right now. But like their

1418
01:31:32,319 --> 01:31:35,960
turnover issues, their fifth most on
offense and fifth fewest on defense. So

1419
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:40,479
they just like the possession game is
not in their favor, so they have

1420
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:43,279
to like make up for that with
shot making, which they which they can

1421
01:31:43,399 --> 01:31:45,880
do, but they're very much but
they don't generally a lot of free throws,

1422
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:49,359
Like they're kind of not winning the
math in a lot of ways.

1423
01:31:50,399 --> 01:31:55,399
Katie Beel and Booker when they're together, they're plus twenty five, making absolutely

1424
01:31:55,399 --> 01:31:57,880
every shot they take. But this
is like one hundred and twenty some odd

1425
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:01,720
possessions. So like this is almost
meaningless because that's like two full games basically

1426
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:06,279
of them playing together if you adjust
for you know, their actual minute totals.

1427
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:13,920
I just like the KD vibes thing
that we talked about a little bit

1428
01:32:14,039 --> 01:32:18,319
last week, give me real pause
some of the Beal stuff, where like

1429
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:25,439
normally, if so, like let's
imagine that the Suns had not given up

1430
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:29,319
what they gave up to get Beal, I think right now you would be

1431
01:32:29,399 --> 01:32:31,119
saying, like, how do we
flip this guy for depth and defense?

1432
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:35,479
Right? Like? How do?
Because Beal seems duplicative like his his he's

1433
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:39,840
not getting to the line anymore,
lowest three point volume of his career.

1434
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:44,079
He's clearly like kind of marginalized because
you have two better on ball scorers and

1435
01:32:44,119 --> 01:32:47,479
shot creators ahead of him. So
it's like in any other situation you would

1436
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:51,720
be thinking of ways to like diversify
by trading him. But that's just like

1437
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:57,039
unthinkable right now because of what this
whole team was put together to do,

1438
01:32:57,079 --> 01:33:00,800
and like why it was put together
and how much ownership into that. So

1439
01:33:00,319 --> 01:33:06,560
they're just like a weird it's a
weird mix and the KD vibes are really

1440
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:12,760
like I can't get over them.
Something feels off with the team. And

1441
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:15,640
then like if you want to talk
about it on the court, like the

1442
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:18,920
reserves that they got that they're not
paying anything are all pretty good. And

1443
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:24,239
I've been killing use of Nurkic and
just think he's like the the piece that

1444
01:33:24,279 --> 01:33:27,960
doesn't work. But like all the
numbers are just like their defense is way

1445
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:32,239
better when he's on the floor.
He's been really wrong about the talent downgrade

1446
01:33:32,279 --> 01:33:36,399
going from I mean eight has been
banged up this year in Portland's sort of

1447
01:33:36,399 --> 01:33:41,960
a different circumstance, but Nurkic has
been I would say, noticeably better this

1448
01:33:42,039 --> 01:33:45,199
year than eight was for them last
year. I was another dead wrong for

1449
01:33:45,279 --> 01:33:49,239
me too, Like I still think
it's fair to say, like in the

1450
01:33:49,279 --> 01:33:54,880
playoffs, is he gonna get attacked
in space? And can he finish anything

1451
01:33:55,159 --> 01:33:58,840
around the rim when you know the
floor is totally open in the middle and

1452
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:00,920
he's just on the roll and to
catch and finish oversize, like he just

1453
01:34:01,239 --> 01:34:04,720
he's still not good at that.
But like so far, just the bottom

1454
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:08,600
line is he's been really good.
So I'm kind of mixed on the suns.

1455
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:14,399
I think the Beal thing is just
like it's almost like it harkens back

1456
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:17,439
to one of the things that seemed
most obvious at the time they traded for

1457
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:20,720
him, which is like, I'm
not sure you need this, you know,

1458
01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:26,199
if you're looking for another high end
player, like why is it an

1459
01:34:26,239 --> 01:34:31,039
offense only smallish, you know,
shooting guard sized guard, and like why

1460
01:34:31,079 --> 01:34:34,640
wouldn't you be trying to, like, I don't know, do something other

1461
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:39,079
than just get a third guy that
can fill it up. So I don't

1462
01:34:39,119 --> 01:34:42,399
know, I just I just wanted
to look at the suns like peripheral or

1463
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:45,159
underlying numbers and kind of see,
you know, if anything had changed from

1464
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:48,000
the narrative of like, well let's
just wait till all these guys are healthy

1465
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:50,479
and then we'll evaluate them. We
haven't really had enough of that yet,

1466
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:54,720
but just looking for anything interesting about
them. And really the main thing is

1467
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:57,920
Nurkic has just been so much better
than I thought. So I don't know

1468
01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:00,479
how you want to go forward with
that if you have sons thoughts they were

1469
01:35:00,479 --> 01:35:03,600
a team wanted touch on because I
kind of think that we might be underrating

1470
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:09,920
the product that they have. So
I'm just not concerned. So the thing

1471
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:13,560
that concerns me more is will they
lose the three point math on any given

1472
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:17,359
night rather than necessarily the possession math
their turnover rate when all three of the

1473
01:35:17,359 --> 01:35:20,319
stars are on the court, just
because by adding this is why you add

1474
01:35:20,319 --> 01:35:26,720
Bradley Beal by the way is because
you've now simplified the decision making tree to

1475
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:29,640
where it knocks everyone down a further
peg. And look, even when it's

1476
01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:32,039
just Devin Booker on the court,
they're about lee average when it comes to

1477
01:35:32,039 --> 01:35:34,600
turnover rate. And so I'm a
big believer in Devin Booker at the point

1478
01:35:34,600 --> 01:35:39,439
guard. He's gone through some piece
and valleys this season. I've been uncomfortable

1479
01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:43,880
with Kevin Durantz and Devin Booker's defensive
performance so far. I don't know how

1480
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:46,159
that changes with Bradley Beal though back
and where like their offensive burdens a little

1481
01:35:46,159 --> 01:35:49,439
bit lighter and maybe the vibes are
just overall better. And the reason you

1482
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:53,880
go out and get Bradley Beal by
the Way is because that trade package wasn't

1483
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:57,359
getting you anyone nearly as good as
Bradley Beal if you just offered it in

1484
01:35:57,399 --> 01:36:00,079
a vacuum. Yeah, that's true. That's the thing I think we're missing

1485
01:36:00,079 --> 01:36:03,760
here, and I think it's more
prohibitive from the fact that, well,

1486
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:09,600
can we sustain this moving forward with
the second Apron stuff? But right now

1487
01:36:10,119 --> 01:36:14,239
my biggest concern for them is,
well, I have questions, but like

1488
01:36:14,279 --> 01:36:16,520
the biggest concern is will all these
guys just be available? And I think

1489
01:36:17,039 --> 01:36:19,840
that's a question to some extent for
every team. We talked about it with

1490
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:23,600
the Clippers it could be that way. For are all these dudes are going

1491
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:26,159
to be available? Is a big
question if you want to win the title

1492
01:36:26,199 --> 01:36:29,640
in general, if you're Denver,
it's just more of a risk here.

1493
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:31,840
And so that's top of mind.
But aside from that, I mean,

1494
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:34,960
you look at Grayson Allen has been
great for them. Have you seen the

1495
01:36:35,039 --> 01:36:39,680
numbers, by the way on that
Eric Gordon, Grayson Allen, Nurkic,

1496
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:45,399
like Booker whatever. Like it's just
I'm guessing that lineup makes all the threes

1497
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:47,800
because Gordon and Allen just haven't missed
this year. Basically, Yeah, I

1498
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:51,880
mean they have a I mean even
the like the like, let's even look

1499
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:56,119
at it this way that Grayson Allen
with Beal and Nurkic lineup, and then

1500
01:36:56,159 --> 01:37:00,680
Kevin Durand and Devin Booker plus twenty
three point three points per possession per one

1501
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:03,880
hundred posessions. They haven't been played
one hundred possessions just yet. There is

1502
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:08,520
some when you look at the defense
during the nonveal version of it, so

1503
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:12,600
they're plus twenty five point six when
it's Booker, Gordon, Allen, Durant

1504
01:37:12,640 --> 01:37:16,159
and Nurkic. Their defense rates in
the ninety second percentile. Opponents are not

1505
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:21,439
hitting their threes. What I have
found interesting is Phoenix's defense overall is about

1506
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:26,680
league average, and if that's gonna
be about league average, we are absolutely

1507
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:30,399
underrating the product here because of what
they're going to do on offense, even

1508
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:33,720
if it's imperfect when they have two
of their stars on the court, let

1509
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:38,760
alone three, and when you start
to dig into their defensive performance, it's

1510
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:42,079
like, well, they're getting burned
at the rim overall, especially during the

1511
01:37:42,079 --> 01:37:45,760
non Nurkic minutes, and like opponents
aren't shooting the best clip from three,

1512
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:48,760
but they're still between thirty six and
thirty seven percent. That's not like some

1513
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:53,119
egregiously, it's different. You know, the lineup I'm just citing that was

1514
01:37:53,119 --> 01:37:56,720
plus twenty five point six. Yeah, opponents are shooting thirty one percent from

1515
01:37:56,720 --> 01:38:02,159
three. That won't sustain, and
so they're their concerns are I think their

1516
01:38:02,199 --> 01:38:08,000
concerns on defense with Nurkic are just
not as prevalent as I thought they were

1517
01:38:08,039 --> 01:38:11,520
going to be. And you still
do have the Kevin Durant as your big

1518
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:14,800
card in the playoffs to use,
yes if he proves it. And because

1519
01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:17,560
Drew Eubanks has not been good,
I think Timez Mattu has given them some

1520
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:21,680
good minutes this year we've seen as
a bookie's given them some good minutes too.

1521
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:25,640
I'm not gonna trust those guys necessarily
in the playoffs, that is,

1522
01:38:26,079 --> 01:38:30,159
aside from the health stuff that has
now become that in the three point math,

1523
01:38:30,199 --> 01:38:31,560
I'm not gonna lie. Maybe I'm
like mathing that too hard, but

1524
01:38:31,600 --> 01:38:34,760
that just you know, when you're
not gonna get to the to the line

1525
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:36,960
a lot in some of your lineups, if you're not gonna get the rim

1526
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:40,319
aiton in some of your lineups,
and then you're not gonna win three point

1527
01:38:40,319 --> 01:38:44,079
battle makes me a little bit uneasy. But it's just how are we cobbling

1528
01:38:44,079 --> 01:38:46,159
together the rest of their rotation outside
the top five or six, And then

1529
01:38:46,199 --> 01:38:49,279
I'm also just kind of wondering,
well, if everyone's healthy, does that

1530
01:38:49,359 --> 01:38:53,319
really fucking matter, because like the
top five or six guys might be all

1531
01:38:53,399 --> 01:38:57,720
that really do matter? What do
you think? The Clippers parallels are kind

1532
01:38:57,720 --> 01:39:00,960
of like shockingly apparent, you know, because it's like, well, the

1533
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:04,359
real question is are they going to
be healthy? And then figuring out like

1534
01:39:04,399 --> 01:39:08,640
who the other two guys are around
your big three really are the question?

1535
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:13,520
Like, so then I I don't
feel comfortable saying this, but I kind

1536
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:16,439
of like the Clippers better than the
Suns? Do you who? Do you?

1537
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:18,640
Who? Do you like more?
As like, well, yeah,

1538
01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:21,479
I think you who's gonna advance farther
in the playoffs? I guess would be

1539
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:26,159
if you have that if they're if
they're all healthy, everybody's healthy on both

1540
01:39:26,199 --> 01:39:30,840
teams, I think you have to
like the defensive buttons the Clippers can push

1541
01:39:31,319 --> 01:39:36,119
more. And there's also just it
feels like they have different gears and levels

1542
01:39:36,119 --> 01:39:40,079
to the way that they can play
offense when you look at their three point

1543
01:39:40,119 --> 01:39:45,199
shooting, having that pure rim pressure
guy in uh Norm Powell also just Nurkic

1544
01:39:45,359 --> 01:39:48,520
is better when he has to finish
around the basket is like kind of getting

1545
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:53,319
the head start, but like if
each zoobox just is just a different type

1546
01:39:53,359 --> 01:39:57,079
of threat in that scenario, I
think I feel a little bit better at

1547
01:39:57,079 --> 01:40:00,680
full strength about the Clippers. But
I also think that and look, the

1548
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:03,760
Suns might have to fight to not
get into the playoffs by way of the

1549
01:40:03,800 --> 01:40:08,800
play in which that matters too,
just because of how much ground they've seed

1550
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:12,479
it so far. I think I'm
just at the point with Phoenix where I'm

1551
01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:16,119
still very concerned, but let's not
lose the plot here because we just haven't

1552
01:40:16,119 --> 01:40:19,079
seen enough of like when the Big
three's on the court, they're just destroying

1553
01:40:19,119 --> 01:40:25,760
people to be literally absolutely anybody if
those three guys, I think, what's

1554
01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:30,680
what's really wild to me as I'm
thinking about the comparison, is like James

1555
01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:38,640
Harden stands out because he's He's the
piece that is the reason the Clippers Big

1556
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:43,199
three sort of fits together more cleanly
because he's actually a point guard, whereas

1557
01:40:43,239 --> 01:40:46,359
like Booker is playing point guard and
is a better player than James Harden in

1558
01:40:46,399 --> 01:40:49,399
a vacuum. But I don't think
Devin Booker is a better point guard than

1559
01:40:49,479 --> 01:40:54,880
James Harden. Is like he's better
at basically everything else, but hardened being

1560
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:59,199
the like there's no question that like
he should bring the ball up and initiate

1561
01:40:59,239 --> 01:41:03,119
the offense because that's just like what
he is fundamentally. That sort of organizes

1562
01:41:03,159 --> 01:41:06,079
the rest of the Clippers in a
way that I kind of like just sort

1563
01:41:06,079 --> 01:41:10,039
of from a field perspective, whereas
with Booker, it's like this is a

1564
01:41:10,039 --> 01:41:13,960
little new that he's doing this,
and you know, it's still not as

1565
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:17,760
intuitive and not as clean of a
fit with Durant and Beale as as it

1566
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:23,159
is with like Harden. Just there's
no there's no overlap really like in terms

1567
01:41:23,159 --> 01:41:27,239
of like what you're asking him to
do with Kawhi and Paul George. Right,

1568
01:41:27,359 --> 01:41:30,239
So that's I think that's the bigger
thing, is I but I'm trusting

1569
01:41:30,319 --> 01:41:33,399
James Harden in the playoffs? Is
I trust Devin Booker in the playoffs more

1570
01:41:33,439 --> 01:41:39,279
than James Harden. But I also
there's a dynamic that's materially different to where

1571
01:41:39,399 --> 01:41:41,960
I mean, Kevin Durant is used
to working without the ball, especially when

1572
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:45,079
you look at the Golden State Warriors
error. Kevin he loved it too,

1573
01:41:45,199 --> 01:41:48,760
couldn't yeah get enough of it,
but like there's just different ways that Kawhi

1574
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:51,720
and Paul George are going to play
off the ball as opposed to Bell and

1575
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:57,000
Kevin Durant. And I think that's
like what makes it fit better to where

1576
01:41:57,079 --> 01:42:00,800
Yes, James Harden is, he's
measurably better passer, but I think I'd

1577
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:05,199
frame it this way, the difference
in either confidence or skill between Devin Bookrap

1578
01:42:05,199 --> 01:42:10,680
point guard and James Harden is smaller
to me than the difference in skill or

1579
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:15,319
effectiveness of needing. Paul George and
Kawhi Leonard. Those are your guys off

1580
01:42:15,359 --> 01:42:17,439
the ball compared to Kevin Durand and
Bradley blbe the ones off the ball.

1581
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:20,479
Yeah, it's gonna be a wish. This is like a comparison. We

1582
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:24,600
should just like kind of monitor as
the season goes on because there are such

1583
01:42:24,640 --> 01:42:27,800
weird parallels between these two teams.
I think that's gonna do it. Though

1584
01:42:28,239 --> 01:42:31,479
everybody who has uh listened, watched, rated, reviewed, subscribed, thumbs

1585
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:35,720
up, followed, told friends,
told enemies, thank you for those of

1586
01:42:35,720 --> 01:42:40,520
you that have not done that,
never speak to us again. Uh,

1587
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:45,560
should we just get aggressive in the
in the thank yous and just really just

1588
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:48,159
draw a line in this rout.
Probably not. Probably not. If you

1589
01:42:48,199 --> 01:42:51,640
haven't done those things, please do
them, because we're eternally grateful and appreciate

1590
01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:56,479
all of the uh all the engagement, all the suggestions, all the guests

1591
01:42:56,520 --> 01:43:00,399
of players, all the trivia,
and just all the conversations on discord.

1592
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:01,760
If you would like to get on
our discord, the link to do that

1593
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:04,760
is in the YouTube and podcast description, as are all of our socials.

1594
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:08,720
As is the way to get some
merch, which I understand there might be

1595
01:43:08,760 --> 01:43:13,119
some new stuff coming. Maybe should
I talk about that carpet? The hardwood

1596
01:43:13,159 --> 01:43:16,239
Knox carpeting will come to a retailer
near you too, and except it,

1597
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:19,359
except it won't. I have no
idea how much it costs. It was

1598
01:43:19,399 --> 01:43:24,359
a gift. If you have space
though in your office, granted you would

1599
01:43:24,359 --> 01:43:27,039
like a Hardwoodknox carpet, maybe we
could, maybe we could hook you up

1600
01:43:27,159 --> 01:43:30,640
well, so when you showed anyway, we could talk about it. Should

1601
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:32,560
we could keep talking about the carpet
or should I? Should I finish it?

1602
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:35,760
I thought it was a banner when
you when you sent me the photo

1603
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:38,600
of it, and then you said
something about a carpet, and I was

1604
01:43:38,640 --> 01:43:41,000
like well that doesn't make sense.
You don't roll around your chair on a

1605
01:43:41,039 --> 01:43:43,760
banner. That's dumb. I thought
it was going to be behind you,

1606
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:45,680
the big hardwood Knox thing, but
with the astronaut on it, No,

1607
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:50,199
there's like no place to put it
that would cover up. But people in

1608
01:43:50,560 --> 01:43:54,760
it was funny you said, would
you say that was? I think the

1609
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:57,760
the stickers you ordered are too big? When I thought you's like, what

1610
01:43:57,840 --> 01:44:01,119
is it like five by six or
something or five by seven? I have

1611
01:44:01,159 --> 01:44:03,720
no idea what it was. People
in Discord loved it, which people in

1612
01:44:03,720 --> 01:44:08,800
Discord seem to love my like setup
in my office, which is a nice

1613
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:13,239
change of place because so many people
think I'm like broadcasting from a closet and

1614
01:44:13,279 --> 01:44:15,319
are making fun of it. It
was like, I get their shoes set

1615
01:44:15,399 --> 01:44:17,239
up behind me, but like,
does this look like a closet, Like

1616
01:44:17,359 --> 01:44:23,000
look at Yeah, I'm just in
a corner of my office. It's mine

1617
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:25,720
looks more like a closet than yours. I just have a window, so

1618
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:29,000
it's definitely not a closet. Well
that's true. Yeah, the window does

1619
01:44:29,039 --> 01:44:31,439
get in the shot sometimes pretty professional
by me. Yeah, I don't have

1620
01:44:31,479 --> 01:44:36,680
a Saint Patrick's date Daniel Gallinari Jersey
behind me, so you automatically win or

1621
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:42,399
team at Jersey, which you should
is like the you know, team at

1622
01:44:42,399 --> 01:44:45,319
Guy. I probably should have to
find something. Suggestions, Hey, Discord,

1623
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:49,920
give me some freshened up suggestions,
because these Warriors Championship hats and my

1624
01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:54,680
dream on bobblehead and some books are
I gotta. I want to do the

1625
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:58,439
lighting. I actually have right next
to me lighting to do like the have

1626
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:00,359
you ever watched like the YouTubers they
kind of have like the glow lighting and

1627
01:45:00,399 --> 01:45:03,720
it's a little bit darker behind them. That's the other thing that my wife

1628
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:05,800
has just yet to do for me
is like she needs to set up my

1629
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:09,479
lighting better. And she's supposed to
be working on new designs for us.

1630
01:45:09,560 --> 01:45:11,479
Well, if she figures out the
lighting, let me know, because I

1631
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:14,600
got some of those we're gonna use
some of those led strips for Christmas lights

1632
01:45:14,600 --> 01:45:17,600
and then it looked too shitty and
we use actual lights instead. So got

1633
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:23,920
those laying around just ready for podcast
studio improvements. That's the goal for twenty

1634
01:45:24,039 --> 01:45:26,840
twenty four is to have the new
designs up soon and for Grant and I

1635
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:31,359
to brighten up. Are not brighten
up, but color it up, class

1636
01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:34,680
up really yeah, add some pizazz. Yeah. I think that's right.

1637
01:45:35,359 --> 01:45:39,760
I think I said everything I'm supposed
to say, except for As always,

1638
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:42,319
we're going to close with the shout
out to the one and only Frank Milakina

1639
01:45:42,359 --> 01:45:43,920
and an apology to Jared Allen