1 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:34,280 Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. This 2 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,439 is your host, Adam Graham. If you have a comment, email it 3 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:43,479 to me Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot net. Follow us on Twitter at 4 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:48,719 Radio Detectives, and check us out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com, 5 00:00:48,799 --> 00:00:54,200 slash Great Detectives. If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your 6 00:00:54,439 --> 00:00:59,759 favorite podcast software. Today's program is brought to you in part by the financial 7 00:01:00,039 --> 00:01:03,520 board of our listeners. You can support the show on a one time basis 8 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,640 by mailing a donation to Adam Graham peelbox one five nine one three. That's 9 00:01:08,719 --> 00:01:15,319 peelbox one five nine thirteen, Boise, Idaho eight three seven one five. 10 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,560 You can also become one of our ongoing Patreon supporters for as little as two 11 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:25,599 dollars per month at Patreon dot Great Detectives dot net. And I want to 12 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,040 thank Daniel for becoming our latest Patreon supporter at the rookie level of two dollars 13 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,159 or more per month. Thank you so much for your support, Daniel. 14 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,760 Well, now it is time for this week's episode of Dragnet. The original 15 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:53,959 air dight mayl eleventh, nineteen fifty The title is The Big Knife. The 16 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,920 story you were about to hear is true, only the names have been changed 17 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:14,599 to protect the innocent. You're a detective sergeant. You're assigned the Juvenile Bureau. 18 00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:17,800 A potential killer roams the halls of one of the high schools in your 19 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:23,960 city. Girls students are then brutally slashed by the criminals. Your job stop 20 00:02:24,039 --> 00:02:38,560 him. Dragnet the documented drama of an actual crime. For the next thirty 21 00:02:38,599 --> 00:02:43,840 minutes, in cooperation with the Los Angeles Police Department, you will travel step 22 00:02:43,879 --> 00:02:46,400 by step on the side of the law through an actual case from official police 23 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:52,639 biolemist, from beginning to end, from crime to punishment. Drag Net is 24 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:59,159 the story of your police force in action. Thursday, November fourth, with 25 00:02:59,319 --> 00:03:02,199 Windy and Watson, we were working the day Watch Georgia Street, Juvenile Girl. 26 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,520 My partner's Ben Romero. The boss is Captain Bowling, Commander Juvenile Division. 27 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,120 My name is Friday. It was two forty five pm when we got 28 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:17,840 to Charter High School main entrance. Which way is yo? I don't know. 29 00:03:17,879 --> 00:03:22,159 We can ask this boy, hey son, Yeah, where's the Principal's 30 00:03:22,159 --> 00:03:23,680 office? Straight down the hall, last door on the last thank you. 31 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,280 What's all the noise about football? Rolly, we're playing Pimont. Today's probably 32 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:34,000 lose. Can't leave confidence like that. It's just your funny now day. 33 00:03:34,319 --> 00:03:42,039 Yeah check that sign m junior prom dollar twenty five per cup makes you feel 34 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,400 old and I never did go to those high school events. Ho'll come good 35 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:54,080 advance last says it still can. Yes, like to see mister Chase. 36 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,919 Could I have your names? Flee, Romero and Friday. Oh yes, 37 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:08,280 you can go right in that s thank me, mister Chase. Yes, 38 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,400 my name's Friday. I talked to you on the phone. Oh yes, 39 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,599 certainly. Sergeant's never chairing. Thank you. This is my partner, Ben 40 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,079 Romain. How do you do, sir? I am at Chase, Sit 41 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,399 down, sit down, certainly. Glad to see you, gentlemen. I'm 42 00:04:20,439 --> 00:04:24,439 at the end of my room. Would you mind breathing as mister Chase, 43 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,839 I at all this troubles start. I don't know how it's happened. I 44 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,560 don't know why, but here's the results. I do this dress, bloodstains 45 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,040 on it. That's historic. A woman stormed in here and said her daughter 46 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,600 came home from school yesterday wearing this dress. As she told her her mother. 47 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,040 She'd been knife here for school. How many cases like this have your 48 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,079 hand? Twenty one in the past three weeks. Why didn't you notify us 49 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:50,040 and leave me? Sergeant? I didn't know which way to turn when I 50 00:04:50,079 --> 00:04:53,879 first learned about these knife things. I wanted to call in the police, 51 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,399 but some of the girls who had been cut, the parents didn't want to 52 00:04:57,439 --> 00:05:00,680 report of the publicity, there's no rioting. He didn't want it. I 53 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,319 hope you realize it, Jason. It's a pretty serious man, Believe me, 54 00:05:03,399 --> 00:05:08,439 I did real life. What could I do? The knifings had to 55 00:05:08,439 --> 00:05:12,920 be stopped. The parents didn't want them reported. I've tried everything humanly possible 56 00:05:12,959 --> 00:05:15,439 to find out who's responsible. What have you tried, mister Chase Well. 57 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,000 I called on some of the older students from the Boys Council. I placed 58 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,439 them all over the grounds of the buildings and told them to keep an eye 59 00:05:21,439 --> 00:05:25,680 out. No results, and the knifings have gone right on this past week. 60 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,800 They've even gotten worse. Oh that reminds me just a moment. Please, 61 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,959 yes, Darris, would you get Jim Travis, Please have them come 62 00:05:31,959 --> 00:05:36,319 to my office right away. Travis is head of the Boys Council, he 63 00:05:36,319 --> 00:05:40,240 helped organize the system of guards. He might be able to give you some 64 00:05:40,319 --> 00:05:43,879 information. He said a minute ago that the situation has been worse this past 65 00:05:43,879 --> 00:05:46,680 week. I mean the knifings have gotten more frequent, more frequent, and 66 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,959 more serious. One girl was cut very badly this morning. He had to 67 00:05:48,959 --> 00:05:53,639 be sent home. A most of these girls cutting pretty much the same manner. 68 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,680 The school nurse treated some of them. She says that look to her 69 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,800 though the girls had been slashed with a very sharp knife, probably a razor. 70 00:06:00,439 --> 00:06:03,959 Is there any definite time patterns of these knifings. All of them happened 71 00:06:03,959 --> 00:06:09,399 between periods when the students change classes. The cards are pretty well crowded, 72 00:06:09,399 --> 00:06:12,600 and that's why it's so difficult to pin it down to any one person. 73 00:06:12,959 --> 00:06:15,319 I see. How about the victims themselves, missus Chase? Is there any 74 00:06:15,519 --> 00:06:18,920 set pattern there? And that's what has me frightening? What I mean, 75 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,720 most of the victims, a lot of pretty girl. Whoever's doing this seems 76 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:27,279 to have a preference for them. Fight me. When you think of what 77 00:06:27,439 --> 00:06:30,439 kind of mind the person must have, it's a little more than frightening, 78 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:33,040 mister Chase. Person with a knife must be a metal case, probably a 79 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,319 dangerous when. I don't think he's going to be satisfied with just knifing the 80 00:06:36,399 --> 00:06:41,959 girls. Possible if we let it go much longer. You wanted to see 81 00:06:41,959 --> 00:06:45,399 me, missus jaseos come in, Jim for what have come sooner? I'm 82 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,680 tied up with a rally committee and Jim missus sergeant fight in sergeant for mayor 83 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:53,120 of police officers they had to investigate the knifings. I thought maybe you'd be 84 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,879 able to help out with some information. Well, I still have a fellows 85 00:06:56,879 --> 00:07:00,319 on the council watching cards. I haven't seen anything yet, but if you 86 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:01,839 have any time after the rally gym, we'd like to have you show us 87 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,959 around. Okay, So here's the school nurse still in your office and I 88 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,120 talk for her too, and I think so jid. When does missus Wesley 89 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:12,839 go home at three thirty on Thursday, Mister Chase, I'll tell her to 90 00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:16,360 stay on a few We'll meet you outside the office here. Okay, I'll 91 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,199 see you later then, right the school out for the day, Yes, 92 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,399 I guess we'll have to wait the morning to interview the victims. The first 93 00:07:24,439 --> 00:07:27,959 class is at eight o'clock. I'll have the girls assemble in the classroom next 94 00:07:27,959 --> 00:07:34,560 to my office. All right, mister Chason, thank you, I'll be 95 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:43,439 right back. Dos see you gentlemen are like the rally is just breaking up. 96 00:07:43,519 --> 00:07:46,720 Huh, three o'clock and all the games, the three things. The 97 00:07:46,839 --> 00:07:55,120 kid's hurting me, a gym up, the cord on, let us go, 98 00:07:55,519 --> 00:08:00,120 let us go. Okay, oh my, the rest of you go 99 00:08:00,199 --> 00:08:03,639 about your business. You're go on. Now, what's about? A young 100 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,959 lady with control? A woman? Look at her dresses and COVID with romans. 101 00:08:11,879 --> 00:08:16,240 An ambulance was called and the injured girl was taken at Georgia Street Receiving 102 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,519 Hospital, where she was treated for a cut on her right forearm and a 103 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:24,519 deep slash across her hips. She was not the serious condition was the doctor's 104 00:08:24,519 --> 00:08:26,600 opinion that the wounds had been inflicted either by a very sharp knife or more 105 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:31,120 probably a razor. A detail of plain clothesmen were dispensed to chart her high 106 00:08:31,159 --> 00:08:37,279 school to keep the grounds and quarters under strick surveillance until further notice. At 107 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:41,279 seven point thirty the next morning, policewoman Loreene Jensen Ben and I met at 108 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,360 the high school with Principal Chase and Jim Travers, the head of the Boys' 109 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,919 Council. By nine am, all of the twenty one nineing victims were assembled 110 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:52,679 in one of the empty classrooms. Police Woman Jensen outlined our plan of questioning. 111 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,720 May I have your attention please? This isn't going to take very long, 112 00:08:56,799 --> 00:09:00,720 girl, so I will have to ask you to cooperate with us. 113 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,960 Try to remember every detail of the time and the place that the nothing's occurred. 114 00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:09,799 We all have a report formed, Rita. You'd like to have your 115 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:15,840 ride. Three things. First, exactly where you were when you were injured. 116 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,440 After that writes the date and the time. Make that just as close 117 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,759 as you can remember it was. The bottom of the page writes the name 118 00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:28,519 of the person you suspect might have cut you. Your answer will be get 119 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,000 confidential. Please don't compare notes with the girl next to you. We watch 120 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:37,440 your version, not to your neighbors. Sorry anyway, yeah, Travis, 121 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:41,120 five minute morning though, Yeah, okay, all right, yeah, Joe, 122 00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:43,480 there's a recess coming up. We want to check the quarters. Can 123 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,919 you make out along for a little one. I'm sure you to go ahead. 124 00:09:46,279 --> 00:09:48,240 You can check the clips when you get back, right, let's go 125 00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:58,639 top of the stairs. Best. Sorry, Okay, if you stand back 126 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,840 a little the railings. No one down below the tellus are being watched either. 127 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,480 Okay, I'm pretty much interested in police work, you know, the 128 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,080 light detecting stuff. Let you keep on going here, one more fight, 129 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:16,600 all right. I wrote a paper once on the light detective because theology class 130 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,399 teacher liked it. So yeah, I've been reading how they take the fingerprints 131 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:26,480 prok and Prince and all that. Pretty interesting. Here we are. We 132 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,159 can keep an eye on the whole card from here. Okay, what detail 133 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,720 you officers work on Georgia Street, Juvenis you know Lee Jones or a rag 134 00:10:35,759 --> 00:10:39,080 binker. Oh? Yes, I've read a lot about the crime when once 135 00:10:39,159 --> 00:10:41,279 you come downtown, some might and we'll show you wrong. I'd be swell. 136 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,279 Okay, must be interesting meeting all kinds of people watching out of behavior. 137 00:10:46,759 --> 00:10:52,480 Yeah. During the recess, while the students lived from classroom to classroom, 138 00:10:52,879 --> 00:10:56,279 we kept the main quarter on the close surveillance. The other men from 139 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,480 Juvenal Bureau covered the rest of the corridors. We kept than I on the 140 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:05,320 main quarter. During the third recess, between periods at eleven am again or 141 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,799 results at eleven thirty, Travers went to check with the members of the boys 142 00:11:09,879 --> 00:11:11,840 council to set up the noontime watch. Then and I went back to the 143 00:11:11,879 --> 00:11:16,519 classroom on the main Florida Check with policewoman Jensen. We helped your tally the 144 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:24,799 results of the questioning of the girl victims that morning see seventeen eighteen nineteen. 145 00:11:26,039 --> 00:11:30,159 Who takes care of the lots? I see there it is? Now? 146 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:35,639 What's it means? Well? Twelve say they were knifed on the main corridor. 147 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:41,320 Three knife outside the building or on the stairway, two in a classroom 148 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,799 at times they list doesn't look like there's any pattern there. How about the 149 00:11:45,919 --> 00:11:48,519 suspects? If you looked down, that's even't got me beef. You've got 150 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:54,080 more of them than we have victims. Here the four pages of name. 151 00:11:54,759 --> 00:11:56,440 Some of the girls wrote down as many as five suspects. It's kind of 152 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:03,559 helping. That's how many altogether? Pretty four? Oh, I'm as day. 153 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,200 Did you find out anything? It didn't turn out too well? Nothing 154 00:12:07,279 --> 00:12:13,080 definite? Terrible morning parents calling up the newspapers. I don't know, certainly 155 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,559 out of my hands. Are there any assembly schedules for this afternoon? Yes, 156 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,639 after the fifth period? Why I think maybe a better canceling it seems 157 00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:22,240 like every time the kids are crowded together, we just ask for trouble. 158 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,919 All right, I'll have a can't find something else on it? The girls 159 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,240 that we had in this room this morning, the victims. We'd like to 160 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,000 have every one of them brought back here after the next class, can all 161 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,039 right, I'll have it two slip cents to each morning, Thank you, 162 00:12:35,159 --> 00:12:41,600 sir, Give you the chill kids getting cut up in broad dayline. Wherever 163 00:12:41,639 --> 00:12:45,039 it is, the guy's got a stomach for it. How do you know 164 00:12:45,039 --> 00:12:48,480 it's a guy? But of guesses? Any how about the school employees, 165 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:54,679 the janitors inst check them all out the coin. When we get the girls 166 00:12:54,799 --> 00:12:56,720 back here, we'll go through the same routine. One thing we missed the 167 00:12:56,799 --> 00:13:01,200 last time we talked to them. Yeah, we asked to pick suspects. 168 00:13:01,399 --> 00:13:03,480 We might have more lucky if we have a bigger choice. Oh, how 169 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:07,320 do you mean? Well, instead of asking to pick out somebody, we've 170 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,159 found on the list the names of every person who was around them or near 171 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,720 them when they were touched and might have worked. If we can found a 172 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:16,519 couple of repeats on that they went to downstairs? Hory, come on, 173 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,559 then, what's the matter it's terrible, terrible if found her. She found 174 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,559 who who? Very price square downstairs, unconscious. I'm afraid. What do 175 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:30,759 you mean you're afraid? I'm not sure she's alive. We located the unconscious 176 00:13:30,799 --> 00:13:33,360 girl in the corner of the basement, near the rear entrance to the girl's 177 00:13:33,399 --> 00:13:37,039 locker room. She had been cut severely about the face and arms. At 178 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,320 Georgia Street Receiving Hospital, she was given an immediate blood transfusion. In addition 179 00:13:41,399 --> 00:13:45,000 to her wounds, she was also treated for shock. We questioned the victim. 180 00:13:45,159 --> 00:13:48,759 She stated that she did not see the person who attacked her. Later 181 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,559 that afternoon, she was removed to her own home upon the advice of her 182 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,840 family. Position one thirty five pm. Then and I got back to the 183 00:13:54,919 --> 00:14:01,639 high school and checked in with a policewoman, Lorraine Jensen. How'd the last 184 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,679 station turned out? Ray a lot at it? It was a good idea, 185 00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:07,240 Jim, Yeah, how'd we come out? Pretty good? You have 186 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,519 a list? They made out twenty one of them. Each girl listed an 187 00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:16,840 average of eight persons around her. Sometimes she's nice. Yeah, one name 188 00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:33,120 that occurs on nineteen twenty one. There they do, Jim Travers, you 189 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:39,120 are listening to Dragnet, the case history of a police investigation presented in the 190 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:50,000 Public Interest. Friday, November fifth PM, Ben and I started checking on 191 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:56,440 Jim Travers in the registrars filed he was listed as James Kirkland Travers, seventeen 192 00:14:56,559 --> 00:14:58,799 years old. It was a well known, popular student. It was a 193 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,720 athlete. He was from a well to do family. His father was the 194 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:07,000 head of an engineering firm. His mother was from one of the oldest families 195 00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:09,559 in the city. During his three and a half years at Charter High Him, 196 00:15:09,679 --> 00:15:13,279 Travers had maintained close to an A average in his studies. He'd been 197 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:18,480 president of his class since freshman year, and he'd held numerous other class offices. 198 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,720 We interviewed his teachers. They had nothing but praise for Travers. They 199 00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:26,679 tabbed him as a brilliant young man with an excellent future. We asked about 200 00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:30,960 Traver's friends, who we powered around with who picked up a small league. 201 00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:33,919 We were told that he had very few, if any, close personal friends 202 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,720 among the students, but he did have one girl at the high school he 203 00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:43,080 was especially fond of. Her name was Barbara Ferris, a tall, dark 204 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,840 haired girl, exceptionally pretty. Her scholastic record was almost as high as Travers. 205 00:15:48,559 --> 00:15:52,519 Two PM, policewoman Lorraine Jensen and I interviewed the girl in a small 206 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:58,039 room off the principal's office. Were now singling you out, baba. We're 207 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,639 interviewing most of the girls in the upper classes. You mean about what's gonna 208 00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:03,720 happening around school? Yes, that's right. Well, I don't know much 209 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,000 about it. I was talking to Jim Travis last night. He's a friend 210 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,120 of mine. He told me why you were here? How long has he 211 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,840 known Jim Travis's father, Oh, since freshman year. I guess you go 212 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,600 study with him. Well, you don't like to call it that, but 213 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,200 I guess. So we go to the dances together. Sometimes, we go 214 00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:22,240 to the show on weekends. You go out with him very often? No, 215 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,360 not very often. Jim's usually pretty busy. He studies a lot. 216 00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:27,759 Does he go out with other girls? You know? Well? No, 217 00:16:27,879 --> 00:16:32,039 I don't. Once he went out with Betty Fisher. He said he didn't 218 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,679 like her much. Betty's kind of a party girl. Jim likes to talk 219 00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:37,639 about him with you know, dis geology books, stuff like that. Do 220 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,159 you get along with him pretty well? You get along fine? Sometimes he's 221 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,759 moody, but I guess I am too. Could you tell us a little 222 00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:48,279 more about Jim? What's he likes? Well, what do you want to 223 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:49,559 know? That fool? Is there anything wrong? No, it's just routine 224 00:16:49,679 --> 00:16:53,279 questioning. But I mean we have to check on everybody I see. Well, 225 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,000 Jim's certainly all right. He's like the rest of the fella. That's 226 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,480 the school, I guess, only he's smarter than most of him. Was 227 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,680 there anything Maybe it's odd about him that you noticed anything? He's very different? 228 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,200 Mmm? No, not that I've noticed. He's always been pretty bashful 229 00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:12,079 up until this last year. Anyway, he's still that way sometimes when we 230 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,400 go out on dates. Not do you mean how is he bashful? You 231 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,480 know about girls and things. He's always nice, though he's not always thinking 232 00:17:19,559 --> 00:17:22,880 about necking him stuff like most of them. You mean he's not the romantic 233 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,079 type. Well, he can be romantic when he wants to. Once we 234 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,599 parked outside my house after a dance. He's always nice. It was just 235 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,160 this one time, so that was nice. Well, he kissed me and 236 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,680 then he twisted my arm behind my back. He kept twisting it for no 237 00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:41,319 reason. You know. I told him it hurt me, but he wouldn't 238 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,200 let go. He kept twisting my arm. What do you say? That's 239 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,119 what was so funny. He said, I like you better than any girl 240 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,680 I know. Yes, Then he said, that's why I'm hurting you. 241 00:17:56,279 --> 00:17:59,799 After talking with Barbara Ferris, he had a pretty good idea that Jim Travers 242 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,880 was suspect we wanted, but because of his fine background and his record, 243 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,039 we realized that we'd have to prove beyond any question of a doubt that he 244 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,359 was the guilty person. We had only one thing to go on, besides 245 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,039 the information Barbara Pars had given him during the morning recesses when Travers was with 246 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,240 Ben and I was watching the corridors. Not one night thing took place when 247 00:18:18,279 --> 00:18:22,119 we had left Travers and gone downstairs to check with policewoman Jensen. The girl 248 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,240 had been found slugged and cut at the rear of the girl's locker room. 249 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,519 Two thirty pm. Then and I met with a suspect. How it is 250 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:34,359 going, sir? Any luck? Not much? Jim? What's that another 251 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,119 rally? No band practice? Junior proms tonight, isn't it? Yeah? 252 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,680 Your doctor? The girl was nice downstair? Huh find out anything? No 253 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,000 not much. You want to stick with us this afternoon. I think you 254 00:18:48,079 --> 00:18:51,079 might be able to help us out. Sure, I've got the colors on 255 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,640 the council standing by. You want him bline, let's go out. Huh, 256 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,920 I got time to tell sure, Okay, we can't go out this 257 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:07,240 way, and I certainly appreciate your learning and time along. Hoping you help 258 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,720 us. I think you can, Jim. So when we talk to those 259 00:19:10,759 --> 00:19:14,240 girls this morning, Uh, we drew up a new list of possible suspects. 260 00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:17,480 Yep, funny thing. One of the names on the list is yours. 261 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:22,000 Well, I've got nothing to hide. Oh, we'll make the system. 262 00:19:22,039 --> 00:19:25,640 Thattic checks each name on the list and stuff with joy. Well, 263 00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:29,400 where we have to go on the line detector? I don't like to try 264 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:30,680 that. I never saw one. Only pictures. No, No, you 265 00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:33,839 won't have to go through that. I don't. Just be a couple of 266 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,880 questions and then we're gonna check your locker room. Okay, I'm you glad 267 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,799 to show you. Does this take us to the locker room? Yeah, 268 00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:44,480 we can cut through here. Say. Uh. When we were questioning those 269 00:19:44,519 --> 00:19:47,960 girls this morning, some almost said that they saw you in different parts of 270 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,720 the building, of the nineties six thing? What do you mean? Well, 271 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,039 your location didn't exactly jibe was your classroom schedule. In other words, 272 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,759 your class was on the third floor, but you were seen down on the 273 00:19:57,839 --> 00:20:00,839 main cord in the honey out for them. Well, you see, I 274 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,799 usually take walks between periods. Sitting in classrooms makes me nervous sometimes. You 275 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:14,680 know, here, I'll get the door. Any other questions I can answered, 276 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,279 sergeant, No, that's all. How'd you happen to get an interested 277 00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:21,000 in police work exam and said your father was an engineer, didn't you? 278 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,200 Yeah, that's right. I don't know how I got into it. I 279 00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:26,559 just to put you out. I guess. I always like to watch people 280 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:32,079 reactions and every behavior. That mean, Oh, the locker room's down this 281 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:37,000 morn Okay, what are your funding on doing when you gudge with Sally? 282 00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:41,799 Yeah? I guess so dad wants to send to a mits for school. 283 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,079 Yeah, say, uh, did you ever have the time. I'm sure 284 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,559 like to see some of the ballistics equipment down of the police crime lab. 285 00:20:49,079 --> 00:20:52,519 I read up on the ballistics quite bit too. Oh is that so? 286 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,400 Yeah? The probably a graph flight attackers. That's my favorite thing. Wonderfulness 287 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:04,880 imagine charting probably different negative reactions like that's marvelous. Yeah, say either one 288 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,839 of you ever read Dawson Was Treated? Uh? I think it's called the 289 00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:12,000 Psychology of the Criminal Mind. You ever read it? Uh? I think 290 00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:15,759 we had that in training, didn't we done? Fem Like? How about 291 00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:19,599 uh? Criminal behavior in this basis maxuals? Did you ever read that one? 292 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:22,400 Mm? No, I don't think that did. That's a great book. 293 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,839 We got quite a few textbooks on crime. We went on sex crimes. 294 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:32,039 I just gone very good that the locker room. Sh I almost went 295 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:37,440 past it. My locker is down this way. How do you shave? 296 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,240 Jim? You an electric razor or safe gradier? Me? Electric razier they're 297 00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:45,799 the best. Yeah, a lot easier to use, hearing, it's all 298 00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:52,839 open the frame. Yeah. Then you've got those envelopes. Uh yeah, 299 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,680 yeah, yeah they are. Okay? Would you step aside there, Jim? 300 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:04,319 Yeah? Sure, we get some dust straight industry shelf. All right, 301 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,400 there you are, Ben, you want to market no ten drivers? 302 00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:15,680 Just scraping on locker. All right, let's see. Here's here's some more 303 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,960 scraping from the bottom of the locker this time. Okay, all stume these 304 00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:25,319 envelopes. Oh, here's a nail file. Okay, Jim, Now when 305 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:30,119 you hold out your right hand, Oh yeah, hold an envelope under his 306 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,440 hand. What you been catch the nail scraping? Thank? Here, I 307 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,720 say, what's all this for? Argeant? What's this routine that everybody? 308 00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:45,559 Jim, I'm just gonna take some sample specimens to run through the spectrograph spectadrap 309 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:49,200 No, I'll just scraped that middle finger nail. No, okay, that's 310 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:56,680 it now the index finger. What about the specscraph? Well, used it 311 00:22:56,759 --> 00:22:59,720 all the time. Oh, it won't work in a case like this. 312 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,119 What that's off for the right hand man? Don't forget to market envelope? 313 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:17,680 Yeah, Jim travers scrapings finger news right? Ah, Joe right? Not 314 00:23:17,839 --> 00:23:22,759 the left hand Jim. H yeah. No, we don't know if this 315 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,480 is gonna work or not. It's worth a try. We'll know this afternoon's 316 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:30,319 afternoon. Yeah, we'll have to run you through on the machine. Hold 317 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,240 the end book a little closer there. Yeah, well, well, how's 318 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:37,359 it gonna help you? I might tell us what you had for breakfast a 319 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,240 week ago, might tell us what kind of clothes you wore three days ago, 320 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:47,000 kind of objects she came in contact with. Oh, well, what 321 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,480 kind of principle does it operate on you? Oh? I don't know. 322 00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:52,359 We can ask Lee Jones here. Let me get the scrapings from your thumb. 323 00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:55,359 All right, there it is, and see what the market. Ben. 324 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,200 You want to call the office and tell them all our way in? 325 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,759 Yeah, in that that room right next to the frience was a okay, 326 00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:07,160 you enclose your locker, Jim, I saw, yeah, all right, 327 00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:11,119 we'll check the things in your pockets when we get to the crime. Right, 328 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:18,319 let's go on. That's spectograph must be a marvelous machine. Well, 329 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,759 it's worked for worth a lot of time. We've got evidence on the suspected, 330 00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:26,000 either convicts them or clears them. You'll probably get a kick out of 331 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,079 it. I'd like to see it. You say it tells you everything a 332 00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:34,319 person who's coming in contact with n't. Yeah, I say, could I 333 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,200 tell you how I shaved? Well, what do you mean? I mean, 334 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,240 whether an electric razor or safety every year? Sure, that's one of 335 00:24:42,279 --> 00:24:47,160 the primary things. I don't know exactly how it works, but it does 336 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,079 the job. We'll get Lee Jones to explain it to him. About this 337 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:55,880 door, we can cut across the court here, it's a sure nice ground. 338 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,440 Will he hit me long downtown? Sergeant? Well you thanks, Jim. 339 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,000 You know, there's strange part about these knifings out here. What's that 340 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,920 whoever is responsible probably doesn't even realize what he's doing. Mandelie's sick. He's 341 00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:15,559 very sick. The best thing for him to be a doctor, just like 342 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,759 any other sickness. It's not going to get better by itself. Yeah. 343 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,880 The only trouble is he's just getting his appetite up with his knifings. See 344 00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,920 those much longer? How about that spectagraph? Sergeant? Say, for instance, 345 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,440 Well if I happened to hold a knife in my hand, or maybe 346 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,720 a raiser. Oh yeah, that is showing the machine we're going here. 347 00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:53,200 Yeah, terrible thing. Whoever it is, terrible thing? Yes, it 348 00:25:53,359 --> 00:26:17,119 is, I him going. I think you're ready to tell it, hope, 349 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:25,519 So backphone, all right, son, you want to tell us about 350 00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:30,799 it now. I couldn't know my so I has a dude, I had 351 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:37,440 to I shouldn't sleep, my goodness study unless I did it. I couldn't 352 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:49,880 know my sosponsible for all. And I thinks are you you're new to you? 353 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,559 You're told I'm glad you caught me. It's getting worse. It might 354 00:26:56,599 --> 00:27:00,880 have been too late. I'm glad you caught me. Barbara after the prompt 355 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:12,039 tonight here I was going to kill her. The story you have just heard 356 00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:18,599 was true, only the names were changed to protect the innocent. On December 357 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,240 fifteenth, the hearing was held in Juvenile Court Department, thirty eighth City and 358 00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:25,680 County of Los Angeles, State of California. In a moment the results of 359 00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:38,240 that trial, seventeen year old James Travers was examined by court psychiatrists, who 360 00:27:38,279 --> 00:27:41,759 found him to be one of the most dangerous metal cases they had ever examined. 361 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,559 The boy's parents, who cooperated to the fullest with the police officers and 362 00:27:45,759 --> 00:27:49,759 with the court, made only one request that the boy be committed to a 363 00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:56,519 private sanitarium. James Travers is now under confinement at that sanitarium for an indefinite 364 00:27:56,599 --> 00:28:04,000 period of time. You have just heard Dragnet, a series of authentic cases 365 00:28:04,039 --> 00:28:08,559 from official fails. Technical advice for Dragnet comes from the Office of Chief of 366 00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:18,079 Police W A. Wardon Los Angeles Police Devicement. Green Director's Playhouse presents the 367 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:36,119 Damon Runyon story tomorrow on MDC Welcome Back. This is such a good episode. 368 00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:42,000 It is one of my top twenty five favorite Dragnet episodes in any medium, 369 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:51,359 and it's very chilling for the crimes that were committed and how close the 370 00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:57,160 police came to dealing with a real tragedy. I think the bit where they 371 00:28:57,319 --> 00:29:03,960 subtly wore Jim Dan is one of the best confession scenes in Dragnet. They 372 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:10,960 didn't go really hard, and I think Friday maintained a friendly conversational tone throughout, 373 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,480 but provided enough nudges to get Jim to feel like they were closing in 374 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:23,680 using a clever bluff about the spectrograph. The successors to the spectrographs of nineteen 375 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:30,359 fifty are still used in police investigations to this day, but therefore identifying unknown 376 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:37,440 substances, bodily fluids and things of that sort. Friday was turning the spectrograph 377 00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:42,720 into a magic crime solving box to elicit a confession from a golible teenager, 378 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,799 but really it was for his own good. Friday was right that Jim was 379 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,839 not well, and if Friday hadn't convinced him to own up to what he'd 380 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,400 done, he would have become a killer as it was, he got the 381 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,559 help he needed to protect himself and society. There was an early hint of 382 00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:04,680 Jim being the culprit that I didn't catch the first few times I listened to 383 00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:08,640 the episode, But because this is one that really stuck with me, I 384 00:30:08,839 --> 00:30:14,519 knew, even though I haven't listened to this in years, that Jim was 385 00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:19,759 the perpetrator. And early on he mentioned that a spot they were at was 386 00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:25,200 a place where you could watch people and them not know it. That to 387 00:30:25,319 --> 00:30:30,240 me was a bit unusual. Now, some people have backgrounds and professions that 388 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,440 require that sort of thinking. You know, you walk into a building and 389 00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:40,440 you look around, and you're just automatically looking at places where you can observe 390 00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:45,599 people, places where you can make an exit. Things like that that when 391 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:52,799 you come through through certain security and military professions. But for seventeen year old 392 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,640 boy, I thought that seemed a bit off. I think that the first 393 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:03,000 few times I just ignored it. I thought that it was just because he 394 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,559 was in charge of setting up the guards. But I think that sort of 395 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,920 thinking, well, it doesn't prove anything. It probably should have given a 396 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:18,319 hint speaking of the guards. I don't think i've talked about or really reflected 397 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,680 on how utterly messed up the reaction of the principle was. Maybe it's just 398 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:29,079 because of the news of the past decade or so of schools dealing with issues 399 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,039 portingly leading to death, but I can't even with this principle. He waited 400 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:40,599 until the twenty first knifing to call the police because he was trying to protect 401 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,079 reputations, and the only reason he ended up calling was because a parent stormed 402 00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:49,440 in and brought her daughter's bloody dress and dropped it right on front of his 403 00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:57,279 desk, and he thought that this was something he could handle internally by having 404 00:31:57,759 --> 00:32:02,359 unarmed boys act as guards to look out and make sure that no one was 405 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:07,279 going to knife a girl. That was his plan, And you know, 406 00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:14,519 the sort of chef's kiss of it was that he actually chose the guy who 407 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,559 was doing the knife fiends to set up the guard system, and he just 408 00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:24,400 kept rolling with his plans as girls were getting stabbed in his school every day. 409 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:32,000 Now, I appreciate that this was a different time, but I still 410 00:32:32,079 --> 00:32:37,759 think that it was off. I mean, Sergeant Friday even asked the question 411 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,000 like, why didn't you call a sooner? Why are we only hearing about 412 00:32:43,079 --> 00:32:50,119 this after the twenty first knife fees, and the show often had subtle educational 413 00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:54,079 thrust. And I think if there's a message coming out of this, it's 414 00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:59,640 that you don't wait on this sort of thing, you know, you don't 415 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,319 just say it's just one or five knifeings, you know, no big deal. 416 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,920 We can probably take care of it ourselves. But I think that the 417 00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:21,240 temptation to put protecting reputations and institutions over protecting lives and safety make this story 418 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:28,960 really feel like something very similar could happen just as easily today. All right, 419 00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:32,880 Well, I do want to go ahead and thank Alexis for rating The 420 00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:38,200 Big Trial and the Big Job over on the Good Pods app. Thank you 421 00:33:38,319 --> 00:33:44,880 so much appreciate the five star rating. And also want to go ahead and 422 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,160 thank our Patreon supporter of the day, and I want to thank April. 423 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,240 April has been one of our Patreon supporters since February twenty seventeen, currently supporting 424 00:33:54,319 --> 00:33:59,920 the podcast at the Detective Sergeant level of seven dollars and fourteen cents or more 425 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:02,200 for a month. Thank you so much for your support, April, And 426 00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:07,400 that will actually do it for today. If you're enjoying the podcast, please 427 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:12,840 follow us using your favorite podcast software, and be sure to rate and review 428 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,039 the podcast wherever you download it. From next Wednesday, we'll be bringing you 429 00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:23,719 the first episode of Broadways My Beat. Next Saturday, we'll be back with 430 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:31,960 an episode of Dragnet Tomorrow listen for a special encore presentation, but we will 431 00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:37,920 return on Monday with our regular lineup and an adventure with the falcon Wear. 432 00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:44,599 If you're worry, what's door? Listen? More done it? Just keep 433 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,480 your hands rightly on? What are you doing here? Chuck? Red Davis 434 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:51,320 was knocked off a couple of hours ago. That still doesn't answer my question. 435 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,000 I don't see why not one the cops think I did it too. 436 00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:55,559 You can prove I didn't. Now is it add up? Not to my 437 00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:59,320 liking? You better get somebody else. This is wearing. Maybe I haven't 438 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:00,760 handled this right, but I didn't kill Red? And why didn't you tell 439 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,639 that to the police. You don't think for a minute they believe me? 440 00:35:04,159 --> 00:35:05,800 Was I told you? Why? I don't either. I look, Mike, 441 00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:07,000 I know you don't like me, but give me credit for a little 442 00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:10,000 intelligence. If I was gonna knock off Davis, would I shoot my mouth 443 00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:13,480 off all of the time. So I tell you I didn't kill him, 444 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,000 then who did? I've got no idea. Okay, Morgan, I'll see 445 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:20,639 what I can do for you. First, I want you to surrender to 446 00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:22,880 the cops. Ono. I think that's no deal. I'll wait a minute, 447 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,039 Mic, I'll make you a promposition. I'm not interested, but Pete, 448 00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:28,679 say give me a chance, would you. I'm convinced that, with 449 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,280 any luck, you can clean this up in a couple of hours. If 450 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,239 you haven't by then I'll give myself up. I hope you'll be with us 451 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,719 then in the meantime, send your comments to Box thirteen at Greatdetectives dot net, 452 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,119 follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives, and check us out on Instagram, 453 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,559 Instagram, dot com, slash Great Detectives from Boise Altohol. This is 454 00:35:49,639 --> 00:35:51,960 your host, Adam Graham signing off.