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freddie Ado from Blue Wire Podcasts. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode
of Hardwood Knocks. This is Adam Frommell here with my co host Dan Favali.
We have made it through the first wave of a wild free agency period.
It feels like if we were put on a Who He Played For episode
right now that like everyone would fail because there's been so much player movement that
it's impossible to keep track of everyone who's in a certain location. As we're
we're recording this, you know, we're still waiting to see whether Gordon Hayward,
who signed a four year, one hundred twenty million dollar contract with the
Charlotte Hornets, is going to be going there after they wave in stretch Nicholas
Batum, or if there might be like a retroactive sign and trade happening,
so players are flying all over the place. Transaction details are wild. We're
trying to figure it out as we go, but that is not going to
stop us from doing some winners and losers of the early slash main part of
free agency. Before we get into that, a shout out to our sponsors
Indeed and bet Online dot AG. You'll be hearing from both of them shortly.
And then Dan, how's it going. It's going pretty well over here,
and to your point, about not well, first, how are you
doing. I'm doing good, Like I said, I'm just like scrambling to
figure out who plays for whom at this point. And that's so I was
actually going to comment on that is to your point, and you know this,
and I can apologize to our listeners. We had draft reaction. We
had a draft reaction pod lined up with the guests and everything. I got
incredibly sick, to the point where my wife insisted I go get tested for
COVID because I couldn't stand and I'd never have body aches like that came back
negative. Luckily, I might have just gotten hit by a truck with the
flu or whatever. It was. Still getting over it. But it was
NBA Draft night. And this isn't a too my own horn, but you
know me, like it's going to take something like catastrophic to rip me away
from that. I missed the first part of the NBA Draft. I had
a call out of sick from Bleacher Report, like I just couldn't function,
and they were more than happy to let me. So I appreciate that again
because that's one of the busiest nights of the year, and in this case,
it was forty eight hours before the start of free agency. So having
missed like the beginning of the draft because I was passed out and then even
just not even really like paying attention to it. I was following it along
on Twitter, but I was in just such a bad state the next day,
So Thursday, when I didn't really feel better but I had more energy
after sleeping, I totally missed like some of the moves, Like I forgot
that Patrick Williams went number four. I was trying to figure out what happened
with some of the trades. We joke about trying to figure this stuff out,
but like I was actually completely in the dark about things were happening.
And I was also really sick or indisposed at the time of when the Warriors
acquired Kelly Ubre. I think I think that was the move, or there
might have been another move where I just didn't even know that it happened.
It might not have been that one, because I think it was on draft
night or really close to it. So that was like my experience. We're
always fumbling in real time to do this, but when you just punt on
it and not pay attention to it, and then like you come back to
it and have to try and figure it out. It's such a mess.
Well two points. One just to underscore like how hard it is to drag
Dan away from this stuff. You would not believe how many times I and
friend of the pod Jacob Born, have texted Dan just being like, go
to sleep, just like stop trying to pull your third all nighter of the
week, Like you need to sleep. So that's one thing, So like
the fact that he actually did have to step away proves that he really did
get hit by a bus. And the second thing is I think sometimes when
you're more entrenched in National league coverage that it's harder to wrap your head around
some of these changes, just because we spend so much time talking about these
players and thinking about these players that their locations are so ingrained, and it's
hard to remind yourself that, hey, player X no longer plays for team,
why he's wearing a new jersey. We have to like completely wrap our
heads around those changes. And I think it's a lot harder when you've spent
so much time like explicitly covering these players. Then you know, if you're
a fan and watching the games and you're thinking about them during the games,
but not necessarily between them, which you know, no, no knocks on
that kind of fandom, but I think it makes it a little bit easier
to process the transaction heavy periods of the NBA calendar. Yeah, I mean,
without question, just being able to zero in and that doesn't make you
know, covering a single team is harder in the sense that you have to
continue to come up with content and coverage for that team. So like the
busy periods might be great, but like you go through the doldrums, you're
not talking about all twenty night others. So there's there's trade offs each way.
But I do love this time of year. And the funny thing is
we get in this is a perfect time to do the winners and losers is
maybe our impressions of this will change over the course because one of the games
have yet to be played. But there have even been moves that I've kind
of wavered on since they happen. Like you provide this instant analysis or you
you have your own reflective reaction. Then you think about it and you're like,
oh, is that actually so good? Was it so bad? Like
you know, I wouldn't call them necessarily, this isn't the move that would
make them a loser, but the Celtics using their entirement level on Tristan Thompson.
I gave that a B. I think in real time I was doing
live grades for it, and like, after just thinking on it more,
I'm kind of like, you know, good for Tristan Thomson forgetting his money.
That's the other thing I'll say on all this is I want every single
player. I'll say most players. I don't really necessarily like every single player
as a person. I want players to get paid. They deserve to get
the money. The criticisms are more about the team's giving out bad contracts.
But with Boston it's like, you know, you have Daniel Tis there,
you have Robert Williams the third what happened that the Miles Turner talks for the
Gordon Hayward sign and trade fell apart. I can't gray the Thompson signingstily based
off that, But you just used your best spending tool on another big So
like that's just a move. I don't know if that happens to you where
you're like, have one reaction, but then you almost completely tilt the other
direction after some more critical thought. Absolutely, yeah, I think Boston is
an interesting place to start, just because I've seen them labeled as losers in
quite a few places, mostly because of the Gordon Hayward situation, where this
is the latest big name free agent who they've lost in unrestricted fashion unless there
is this retroactive sign and trade, which seems like it is still a possibility.
But after Kyrie Irving left and Al Horford left, and now Hayward left
without bringing anything back in return for Boston, it's kind of it's kind of
being viewed as a knock against the front office. But at the same time,
like, you know, even if you don't love the Tristan Thompson move,
like he and Jeff Teague, who are the big quote unquote editions for
them this offseason, Like that is still quality depth on a team that already
has that front end talent. The thing that I think is being overblown is
so like the Kyrie Irving departure, like you can hold that against him.
We don't necessarily know what happened in that locker room, but him leaving I
think actually ended up helping the team because they replace him with Kemba Walker,
a comparably good player who's a better fit for what was happening around them,
and then with Horford and Hayward specifically, they would have been criticized for probably
giving out those contracts. So like the Horford deal is not aged well,
would expects the Hayward deal to age well. The Hornets looked like losers in
all this for sure, Gordon Hayward is a monster winner. If you want
to knock Boston for anything, I think the two things you can focus on
are maybe even three. Look, there's the Tristan Thompson signing, but at
that point in free agency, I don't know that they could have funneled that
toward a wing like they had already let someone like in Alec Burke's pass was
already with the Knicks on one year, six million dollars. You know.
I look at things like why did they let brad Wanamaker go? Didn't even
give him a qualifying offer. I think he would have been a better fit
than Jeff Te Not as good of a playmaker, but a better defender.
And the other thing that you can knock them for is that Gordon Hayward trade
talks with Indiana, because it seemed like Hayward really wanted to go there.
If they were really asking for Turner and then either Oladipo or TJ. Warred
if that was their asking price, like they realistic, I would have taken,
though I think that the other that was reported big Dermott and Turner for
Gordon Hayward, I absolutely positively would have done. And I think he could
put up a perfect fit with that lineup right. Totally agree. You could
point to like turn or not necessarily having the girth to stand up to a
Joel and Bead, but like you know, Tristan Tomson's not really going to
do that for you either, and who like, first of all, there
aren't many Joel and Beads, which is like kind of the point, like
you're not going to get unless it's marcusol comes out of hibernation like between four
to ten nights a year, depending on which conference he's into, you'll go
up against Joel Bead and within the battle. There are just so few bigs
that are going to do that. I don't look at Tristan Toobson as the
guy that's going to fix that. The other thing he does is he's always
this might change, but he's always been a better offensive rebounder, and they
need help on the defensive glass. I think they were actually like top ten
or top five and offensive rebounding rate last year, so I understand calling them
losers, but like the not matching the Hayward deal specifically, to me,
is not what makes them a loser. Agreed wholeheartedly, I don't think they
come anywhere close to the biggest loser competition for me, that would just unquestionably
be the Detroit Pistons, who have apparently gone from the add Boys era in
the nineteen eighties to the big boys era of the twenty twenties. Their off
season got off to like a decently promising start with their three first round draft
picks, Killian Hayes, Sadique Bay and Isaiah Stewart, and then they just
decided that, you know, in an era in which the NBA is fully
trending towards versatile bigs and small ball, that they were going to sign all
of the center. So Mason Plumley comes aboard, and Jalil Okaffer comes aboard,
and Dwayne Dedman comes aboard briefly, and then they still go out and
sign Jeremy Grant and make a flyer on Josh Jackson, which is like their
one redeeming move, I think, And when Josh Jackson is your redeeming move
of free agency, then then yeah, you've solidified yourself in the biggest loser
category. I didn't understand what they were doing. It makes no sense,
Like I've just I've still flabbergasted when you look at it, and look,
they might need another big because they traded away Tony Bradley, so they should
probably hurry up and sign another one. I'm still trying to figure out unless
I've missed another detail of that Zaire Smith, why Bradley trade and then the
Pistons are gonna wave and stretch Zayre Smith. I don't understand that for like
either team at all. So I'm still trying to wrap my head around the
Pistons offseason. But yeah, look the I think so you could justify it
like jolil okafor won't cost much, so that's fine. But like the Mason
Plumbley contract was genuinely curious, and you know, he came a very very
generous way of putting it. Look, it was bad because like it's well,
I wanted like three years, like I don't. My other thing too,
is like, yes, Christian would cost more, but like you,
I feel like it would have been better, Like you could leave julil okafor
don't take Mason Plumbley, and then you know, just try inside Grant and
Christian Wood would have been the way to go. Like that, those two
can still play together. And the other thing that I find, I don't
know if it's as damaging, but like they weren't the team that could give
Jeremy Grant twenty million dollars a year. It's as a player in theory for
them, He's tantalizing, shot thirty nine plus percent from three of the past
two seasons. He can guard almost every position. I'd say he has like
four position rage. At the same time, now you're putting him in a
situation where I don't know if his offense is as valuable. He wants a
bigger role, Like he didn't show a ton of ability to work. He
didn't have that flexibility in Oklahoma City, and he didn't really show enough of
it endeavor, Like there were times where he was attacking the basket or dribling
in transition, and I don't like remember any of them as positively memorable.
It's like this could end up. It seems like he wanted this situation,
which good on him for wanting to test himself and plumb the depth of his
offense. But like, I don't know that they have the talent necessary to
maximize Jeremy Grant on offense. And yeah, whatever he does for them on
defense is great, but like if he if he doesn't live up to stuff
on offense, if he's not at least a well above average, high volume
three point shooter for them, like that contract is still good at tilt in
a poor direction. And you did all this without having settled the matter of
like what are we doing with Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose And I don't know,
I guess looking at the moves in this free age and seem like we
should assume they have the lot right too, which I guess, Like that's
a solid flyer tape, but I guess they're trying to compete in the East
next season, Like I don't look at this as a playoff roster right now,
but definitely not. He's just getting better too, that's the other thing,
right, So, like, if you you have to look at who
do you expect to fall out of the Eastern Conference playoff contention? And I'm
going through, but you have Atlanta right there had a better off season,
right, so like you're gonna get into a fight. We can move on
to Atlanta shortly, but yeah, right, so you're gonna have like,
let's say there's this three way rock fight for the eight Sea between Charlotte and
Orlando and Detroit, Like that's maybe and it like yeah, and throw Atlanta
if I had mentioned there were two, Like that's like what you spent all
this money for. And it's not even for guys that I think you look
at and say they're great fits for the roster. Where As we get into
the Hawks now, I think they'll probably be there'll be some split and maybe
a lot of it depends on the bow Down Bogdanovich outcome. But maybe some
people think they shouldn't have spent their money and like they're bringing in you know,
I think booked out of at just twenty eight and Gallant Arris thirty two
and Roddo is Roddo at the same time, like at least those guys make
sense for the roster. And I don't know that any of these moves for
Detroit, like I don't look at them and think like, oh, that's
like they made it like that that was good by them, But you know,
I think they got I guess they got good value for Luke Kennard in
that trade, but they gave up four seconds in that deal, if I'm
not mistaken. So they've had a a kind way to put it. Would
be a curious offseason. But Detroit is certainly a loser for me too,
a very kind way to put it. I think the one saving grace here
is that I think the Detroit is going to be very near the top of
the lottery odds coming out of this upcoming season, and the twenty twenty one
NBA draft is extremely guard and wing heavy at the top. If you look
through any of the early mock drafts at this point, the only like pseudo
big man who is projected to go in the lottery is Evan Mobley, who's
going to be a freshman at USC so naturally that's probably who they'll end up
taking. Yeah, it was just to clare for myself. I knew it
was four second round picks. I want to to make sure they are all
coming from Detroit. They are, and then three of them are actually Detroit's
own second round picks, which is a pretty big Gamble twenty twenty four,
twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six look second round picks or second round picks
at the same time, like those could end up being in the loads of
bid thirties. So I'd like Sadiq Bay though, like I think that was
mostly a good value play. But why did it require so many second round
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December thirty. First terms and conditions apply. I wanted to talk about Atlanta.
Are they a wit? Are a loser for you? I think they're
I think they have to be one of the bigger winners of this offseason.
You know you can. You can knock the ages of those big editions because
they don't necessarily fit the timeline. But as we've seen with so many young
stars like you have to win before their extension eligible so that you don't run
the risk of them wanting to leave. So Trey Young has made it clear
to the Hawks that he wants to win now. The Hawks have made it
clear that they want to win now, and they have a roster now that
that can very much do so, regardless of whether the Kings match that Bogdon
Bogdanovich offer sheet that he signed with the Land So if he is there,
they're looking at a starting lineup now. If Trey Young, Bogdanovitch, Danilo
Gallinari, John Collins, and Clint Capella. And you know, you can
switch some of these pieces around, and that still leaves Chris Dunn, Rajon
Rondo, Camraddish, Kevin Hurder, DeAndre Hunter, Solomon Hill, maybe on
Yuka Kongwu on the bench. You know that this is a deep team where
the biggest problem is going to be finding a way to get everyone who wants
and deserves minutes into the rotation. And that is a great problem to have
for a franchise that did not have that high end veteran talent that it could
rely upon and had no options behind Trey Young. So all of a sudden,
you're looking at multiple guys who can create for themselves on offense, and
in Chris Dunn and Rajon Rondo, two really good passers who can keep things
moving even when Young isn't on the floor. I mean, you mentioned that
Atlanta might be in that rock fight for the eight C. I feel like
they're a playoff walk in the Eastern Conference with this roster. So the East
is so tough because I don't I don't want to spoil taste. Their teams
were like I don't know like how good Miami is gonna be, Like their
off season has been fine, Boston loses Hayward, Toronto lost a Bacca and
Gassol, but they have bans and I like, you know, I'm gonna
like the Chris Bouchet signing. So in terms of playoff locks, though,
I feel like there's is there even a clear number one team in the East
right now, and so maybe that favors in Atlanta, but it could also
hurt them because if I had to pick locks, I'll say right now,
Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston, Indiana. I'll still throw in there in Miami
the Sixers and the Nets. So that's seven. So if you're calling the
Hawks a lock, that's it, which is fine, but like you're not
leaving any wiggle room for and I don't know what necess like you need to,
but yeah, who I mean, the middle of ball is not ready
to lead a playoff charge. Gordon Hayward is good, but can we rely
on him? So I think beyond that, like who's there, DeVante Graham
and Terry Rose. You're aren't leading playoff charges? Right, And I think
what you're saying, which isn't unfair, but is a little bit of risk
is that the Hawks will be decidedly better than both the Wizards and the Orlando
Magic. And I'm pretty comfortable saying that. It doesn't make me uncomfortable to
hear you say that, Like, I don't know. I don't know that
I'm comfortable putting like the Pacers ahead of them. I am. It's it's
upsetting the established hierarchy that we've seen in previous seasons. But now looking at
the rosters and again this assumes that the pieces fit together and everything. But
like this Atlanta team is really talented. Now, maybe I'm putting on too
much of a Homer hat here. Well, I think I think Young is
a legit star and there is so much versatile talent around him now, so
I'm good. So the few things act in Sermo is when we have to
wait and see what happens with the Bogdanovich signing like that that will definitely matter.
Two is I need to see who their defense is going to look like,
are you gonna have you know, Bogey and Gallo and Trey Young on
the court at the same time? For points, Bogie at least, you
know, like gallowhe has good size and he's better defensively than Gallows, but
like that's gonna be three. I would say negative defenders on the floor,
and that's not We haven't said anything about John Collins, who seems like he
got better, like looking at if you want a traditional big defense, but
I don't know looking at someone who might have to play more power forward,
like how he'll end up being. I think the fit with Capella will be
fine offensively. There are a lot of question marks for me. It wouldn't
surprise me if they were one year away if you told me they were definitely
getting bogey. I think I might default to putting them in my eight.
I don't know if I would call them locks. I'd be far more inclined
to call Indiana locks than Atlanta, just because of what Indiana did last year
basically without Oladipo being healthy. So it doesn't necessarily matter to me if they
trade him or not, and they're just running it back. See. I
kind of wonder about the Oladipo fit in general, like if he is still
there, are there chemistry concerns off the court? Are their chemistry concerns on
the court as he's trying to re establish himself as a star ahead of his
free agency, which isn't necessarily in the best interest of the team. Can
I do one of my winners now? Absolutely, I'm going to pick the
Oklahoma City Thunder. And this isn't me trying to romanticize future draft picks,
but one, you know, legitimately holy crap. Two, Like kudos for
them to like really leaning into the rebuild, which is not necessarily easy to
do in the market that they're in. We've seen a lot of other small
markets strive to avoid this. They've just burned the entire thing from last season
down. They let Gallo walk. Maybe you know, you can look at
his regret that they didn't work out a sign and trade or they didn't move
them at the deadline, but they were really good last year, so I
don't Also don't think it necessarily matters if they didn't get an asset for him
when they got so many assets elsewhere just moving Chris Paul even get they got
a first round pick in the Steven Adams trade, Like that's was borderline inexplicable
from New Orleans on my part, knowing that it kind of took them out
of using the entire mL and Adams is coming off the books after next year,
and he's not really a great fit with sign and Williamson. Like that
didn't feel like the move to give up the I think it's a Denver twenty
twenty three lottery protected pick, and yes, Denver should be really good,
but like you're not right now, so keep the first round picks. I
digress though, But it was moves just like that, even the Danish Shrewder
deal, like it was you got Danny greenback an extra first round pick,
and then you're able to move Danny Green to Philly for yeah, we'll take
on Al Horford's money, but you got two first round picks out of that
deal. Like these were good value plays and we don't know what those draft
picks are going to become. But that's why Sam Presty has no fewer than
one billion. He's giving Oklahoma City all these bites at the apples or because
these future picks are romanticized. If they get to a point in a year
or two where shake gilg just Alexander's been extended and he is already all star
material and they have one or two high draft picks, they can go out
and make that trade for the next discrumbled star if they want to. I
don't know if that's what they're looking to do. They might just want to
draft and develop within whatever. That's fine. They have all these options now,
and I really commend them for not trying to tow both lines, because
I do think that's tempting at points where they could have just been, like,
you know, Schroeder and Adams are coming off the books. Anyway,
we'll just trade c P three and like, let's just be done with it,
And like they still have moves that they could make to get more assets,
because this is gonna be one of those moments where it's like to see
on their team. But George Hill is in Oklahoma City now to the best
of our knowledge, right and it feels like FATA company that he'll eventually be
traded to the Clippers of the Celtics by the end of the season for something.
I don't know what it'll be. So like they still have things that
that they could do. And Dido for Trevor Ariza, who is now on
his four hundredth Team of the Week and could very well be moved on once
more. Al Horford could still get something for them, you know, if
he plays to reboots his value this season. Someone will talk to himselves well
into al Horford as a net positive asset after this year if he plays really
well, and because Presty is going to work more wizardry. But yeah,
I would be if they didn't make some sort of move for the next disgruntled
star, just because there are too many first round picks to use them all.
There are only so many roster spaces available right on for any one NBA
franchise, and you just you cannot bring in that many rookies. Year after
years, They've done it. They've been going to happen at some point.
They've done a good job spreading them out though where it's like you don't look
at any one draft and it's like, well they're forty. It's like where
they're not going to have seven picks in the twenty twenty two NBA draft,
so it's like they at least have that balance. But I'm with you,
and the one thing that I hope that happens as a result of all this
is I want to see Daris Basley gone wild, and I hope that they're
open to playing him at the five, the three, the four. I
just want to see a lot of Darius Basley next season, obviously, in
addition to Shake gil Just Alexander, and I think the last thing I'll say
on them, the Horford contract isn't great, but I think they were well
compensated for it. But two the veterans you have right now, but let's
just assume they don't trade them. George Hell and Horford are like, they're
mostly plug in play. They're not going to disrupt anything that's happening. Whether
they're happy is a different story. Like these are guys who are not going
to infringe upon the development of the youngsters. And I'm specifically talking about Jake
gil Just Alexander h say lu Dort if you want to, and then Darius
Baisley as well obviously, So they're they're fascinating moving forward. I think they
did a great job of you know, the thing that I didn't mention is
there are fourteen teams now in the West that are going to fancy themselves playoff
hopefuls, and they were fifteen until the thunder tore it down. For them
to sort of recognize like what was going on in the West too, you
have to commend them for that. I'll move on to another kind of non
traditional winner, and that's the New York Knicks. I don't think that we've
said that in a long time, and the reason is just that they accepted
their situation. Now, we've seen so many times in the last decade plus
that the Knicks have tried to, you know, take shortcuts and expedite the
rebuilding process, and it backfires invitably because they're the Knicks. But this time
they accepted that they were the Knicks and actually did the right thing, which
is make these minor on the fringe moves and exhibits some sort of patients,
you know, waiting for the right opportunity, waiting to see which of their
young guys is going to develop without overloading the roster with more veterans. I
love the Obe Top and Mitchell Robinson fit in the front court, as I've
told you. On the side, bringing in Austin Rivers is an interesting move,
not because he and Jeremy lenn are probably the two best point guards that
New York has had in decades, but just because he's a legitimate option who
can help contribute to the development of guys like RJ. Barrett, like Kevin
Knox who are going to be featured options. Alec Burkes adds some level of
veteran legitimacy to the roster. There was nothing glamorous about this off season,
which is the point, and that's good for the Knicks in this current situation.
I would agree with you. It's funny that that's like the bar is.
They didn't do anything dumb, so let's call them winners. This is
I agree with everything you said. I think the two most important editions they
made were Burkes and Rivers, just because they didn't have anyone who could really
effectively create off the dribble after the Marcus Morris trade and the fact that Marcus
Morris was being used in that vein so heavily was probably untenable anyway, So
to get guys in Alec Burks and Austin Rivers, both of whom shot pretty
well off of off the dribble threes last year. Austin Rivers at thirty five
point nine percent. I think Alec Burks might have been closer to forty percent.
I didn't have his number in front of me for some reason. I
think those moves were good. Neurland's Noel the fit is questionable, but they
got good value on the deal. I just question whether they have enough shooting
around him to work on offense and the movie that i'd like to see them
make, obviously you don't want to give up compensation for this is you have
to get Julius Randall out of there, because he probably needs to be played
at the five this point, but he can't defend there. He can't defend
at the four anyway. If you have him on the floor though that's one
on shooter at the spot directly next to the five where you have Mitchell Robinson
or Noel right now, and then having those two I'd rather see them get
center minutes than Julius Randall at this point too. That seems to be the
move. And then an unlocks topping, just giving him more minutes, and
I would have liked to have seen them. And I don't know if it
would have been realistic, because it's fine that they didn't pay Fred van Fleet
and maybe they try too, who knows. It doesn't seem like they did.
But once you got past van Fleet and Dragic, like the point Guard,
market was not great. I would have liked to have seen any sort
of alternative to Alfred Payton, though he was fine last year, one year,
five million. It's effectively six million because they paid him one million to
waive his other deal whatever. Like the deal is fine, but they need
guys to get Mitchell Robinson and topping the ball, like to set them up
for shots, and like they just don't have that right now. Barrett isn't
that player yet he could be, And I think having a player who's kind
of better at it, at least someone who can shoot and create rather and
is a threat to score in general, where Alfred Payton is more so just
a fairly good passer, that would help Barrett too, just to alleviate the
defensive attention that he's going to see when he's on the ball. But I
don't know. I'm saying this knowing that I also don't know what the bigger
swing could have been, just because the point you can you could be more
transparent here. We all know that the real desire is the unending, ceaseless
want for frank na Tilakina to get more minutes. Like that's why you're hating
on the Alford Peyton. Well, look, I'm already scheduling tweets for why
frank Nilikina is not getting minutes over Dennis Smith Jr. Or Frank Nilikina is
not getting minutes over. I won't say RJ. Barrett, that's actually mean
Frank Laikina like is not getting minutes over Jacob Evans or something at this point
because the Nicks have him. I also thought, by the way, I
thought the Amari Spellman pick up was just kind of interesting. I know you
said that he was one of the what did you say to me he was?
He played like one of the dumbest players I've ever watched when he was
with the Atlanta Hawks, and the rumor was that he just they ended up
moving him because he wasn't picking up the offense whatsoever and just like didn't get
the play calling and didn't know where he was supposed to be. He just
intrigued me as someone who is moving well in Golden State and then shot like
on Stan still jumpers a fairly high clip, and then we just never really
heard from him again in Minnesota's like, I just thought, like, these
were all just interesting moves. They they're winners. I totally agree. I
don't think that people should read into them conserving cap space as oh, they're
gonna be one of the favorites to get a Janis or a Kauai or a
Paul George or a Lebron in twenty twenty one free agency. I think what
they did here was smart. They didn't sign anybody. You'll forget about the
length of the deals. We know Rivers has the non guaranteed on the final
two years. They just didn't sign anyone who disrupts their timeline in any way
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Ultimately, this offseason, I found that it's kind of hard to find many
losers, right, but I have. Maybe it's just because we've lowered the
bar so much, but I do have one, all right, unless you
want to go next? Is it the ship? It is my turn?
But is it going to be a shared loser anyway? Like we already kind
of have like the met for Boston, Like did we call them a loser?
I think I'd probably classfy them as a loser. I think it was
gonna be Charlotte. I mean, I think they're a loser. That's on
who I was going to focus on. All right, So let's talk about
touched on them before, but we didn't really get into it. I understand
that Gordon Hayward also isn't someone who necessarily disrupts what LaMelo Ball is going to
do. He should still plenty of opportunity, But like you just didn't pay
Kemba Walker and then you decided to pay Gordon Hayward, it just doesn't make
any sense to me and Kemba Walker insofar as there's going to be fans allowed
back in Arenas. Ever, he puts more butts in the seats than Gordon
Hayward does. And just looking at Gordon Hayward's injury history right now, four
years in one hundred twenty million minus zero cents, you might have been able
to spend like three years, ninety three years, even a hundred just to
get that length off of there. And here's the problem. If it stays
this way and this doesn't isn't gonna help the optics much. If you have
to wave and stretch what became one of the worst contracts in the NBA to
make room for what people are already deeming one of the worst contracts new worst
contracts in the NBA, that's a real problem. And look, I don't
necessarily care how you want to look at it, Like but Tune being on
the books effectively for nine million dollars over the next three years. If it
happens, you can look at that like as paying Gordon Hayward thirty nine million
dollars for the first three years of his deal. There are also other ways
to spend. It was like, if they had but to him, they
were still going to have to pay him this year, so this season really
count And it's like, well, yeah, because if you're going to wave
and stretch him anyway, like you could have spent that money on smarter players
or doing different trades. And also if you were going to wave and stretch
him, you might have had more tap space to play with in general,
an addition to signing Gordon Hayward, like you could have structured your off season
differently. There. This is not an original joke, but I laughed when
I heard it. I was listening to the dump Don pod and they said
that the Hornets just seem like their next move is going to be has to
sign Hassan Whiteside, like that seems like it would be the perfect cap to
their off season. And I don't understand what they're doing. I know that,
as I say we've romanticized draft picks, we can romanticize the idea of
tanking. They weren't necessarily tanking by being left alone, like you just drafted
LaMelo Ball And had you been able to get Hayward and maybe at a reasonable
price like you want or shorter contract, like if this was this never would
have been Denil Gallanari money. But if it was Daniel Gallinari, like if
you put him on this team, him at that contract, I don't hate
it as much, and so I think I get the sentiment of what they're
trying to do, unless that they're actually think that they're trying to win next
season, in which case that's just absolutely absurd. But this was just not
the time to do it. You needed to give yourself at least another year,
let the Battoon contract come off the books organically, and now you're just
saddled again, assuming it goes down this way with this hit, I don't
understand the justification from there and at all. And it's even if you like
the idea of Gordon Hayward paying one hundred and twenty million dollars for someone who
had as healthiest year last season but was still dealing with health problems and just
when ever since he's come back from that legg leg injury, and yes,
it was devastating, like just hasn't really been the same player when you're attacking
in space, Like, yes, he can do more with higher usage,
I have no doubt about that. Like you give him a bigger role,
he might do more. I don't expect him to even come close to making
any sort of All Star team in the East. On the Hornets, if
he's going to be their number one or number two options. So I don't
understand the logic here at all. And I'm also wondering if because you have
him, because you have Rosier and now you have Lamello, if we're going
to start hearing talk about, uh, DeVante Graham trades just because he's going
to be a free agent next summer and you've already paid Gordon Hayward, you
have LaMelo Ball. His cap isn't it isn't exactly small. No, you
don't get rid of DeVante Graham because you have Terry Rosier. But he's on
the books for you know, another two years at basically eighteen and nineteen million
pop. So I'd keep an eye on DeVante Graham's future in Charlotte, which
I would hazard is not going to last very long. Agreed, Yeah,
I got the Charlotte off season got off to a great start in my opinion.
They drafted the two best guards from the twenty twenty NBA draft and LaMelo
Ball a Grand Riller. You know, I had to get that in there.
I totally it's it's I forgive me for not even mentioning Grand Riller.
That is my fault. I apologize, I was I was waiting because that
was such a marquee off season edition that we should be really excited about and
then just let it slip right by, so I had to. But yeah,
I mean, it seemed like they to have a good draft with LaMelo
Ball, with getting Grant Thriller that late. Nick Richards is a guy who
a lot of a lot of analysts who are who are more focused on the
numbers, really like Vernon Carey Jr. Might kind of be a dinosaur in
today's NBA, but he also does have a tremendous amount of skill down low.
And they had so much cap space, and then the Hayward move,
it just that was it was just so baffling, like the fact that Bismack
Biombo was their biggest front court acquisition, given all of the cap space and
the glaring need that they had at the five, especially with all of the
guards that they've added, and just this overloaded backcourt that, as you said,
might require some sort of trade to to unclear the long the log jam,
Like just why why was Gordon Hayward the big play here? He doesn't
even fit the timeline of this roster, Like even if even if he works
out and justifies that thirty million dollars per year and does make an All Star
team or two. Okay, so what like he's not elevating your ceiling high
enough to be anything more than like maybe a second round playoff team in the
Eastern Conference. I would say he's going to age out right. I would
say this season, like their ceiling is one of the play in spots nine
or ten, Like I would be shocked if they finished top eight in the
East. And remember they were pleasantly surprising last year, but they outperformed,
like like their win loss record outperformed all of what the metrics said. They
were bottom three in that rating. I believe, like you know, LaMelo
Ball is a project. He's not a guy who's immediately going to come in
and light the league on fire. His jumper needs significant work, he has
no idea what he's doing on defense. His passing vision is phenomenal, he
still makes far too many mistakes when he's controlling possessions like this is supposed to
be a long term play. When you acquire him and you're now just heaping
pressure onto his shoulders because he's going to be the face of the franchise.
Even with Gordon Hayward there, but hayward acquisition ensures that there are at least
some expectations to compete right away. Just none of this made sense. Yeah,
and it's if you want shooting around LaMelo Ball one, like I think
they had it like they had outlets, because DeVante Graham can shoot. Terry
Rozier is a phenomenal off ball shooter pot well, and you could have signed
cheaper shooting. And it's not like they know they don't have the most talented
shot creators, but like so much of their offense was okay last year at
points because DeVante Graham can create shots and put pressure on defenses. And so
if you needed that second guy beside LaMelo Ball, you had DeVante Graham.
I understand Gordon Hayward is better than both of them, but at the money
he's coming in at, it just still doesn't doesn't make sense. And so
I don't even think this is being like oversimplified either, where sometimes maybe when
we cover the league nationally, we get caught up in oh, he doesn't
fit the timeline, YadA, YadA, YadA. This was just like a
bold, bare faced terrible move. Yeah, So another another loser I want
to single out the Houston Rockets here for a few reasons. One, most
notably, you know, I'm looking at a depth chart right now, and
the starting point guard is still Russell Westbrook and the starting shooting guard is still
James Harton. You know, the Rockets can say all they want about how
they are okay with it being uncomfortable, and they're still gonna run it back
with those guys. But like you've already moved, Trevor Ris, a PJ.
Tucker trade is surely going to come at some point. You're making it
very clear that you're ready for the next era of Houston Rockets basketball. And
the fact that trades haven't been found yet might mean the asking prices are a
little bit too high. That's a problem in and of itself. Number two,
Christian Wood, who was phenomenal at the end of the twenty nineteen twenty
season. And I am a believer in Christian Wood's talent, but you still
go out and pay him a pretty exorbitant contract that most notably the Pistons seemed
to have no interest in. Because the Pistons have more insight into Christian Wood
than any of us do. Because not only did they see what he did
when he was elevating his game, but they saw everything leading up to it.
And if they weren't buying into that to the extent that they signed all
these other big men and gave Jeremy Grant so much money, then that might
be a risk that Houston shouldn't really be taking, especially if it's still committed
to moving Harden and Westbrook one or both, which it should be. Third,
you look at the other things that they've lost. Darryl Morny, who
has had a phenomenal early offseason with the Philadelphia seventy six ers, just wheeling
and dealing and bringing in a bunch of shooting and putting a competent, coherent
roster around the Ben Simmons Joelmbad combination. That doesn't make you look any better
for failing to retain him. And we also see Mike D'Antoni go latch on
with the Brooklyn Nets as an assistant to Steve Nash, and that might not
look good either. So just the optics, the roster, the direction,
none of it has been good in Houston. Yeah, I don't have a
problem with the Christian Wood contract. Actually, I think Detroit should have paid
that money to keep him. It was fair value money under fifty million dollars
a year annually for him seems like that. And he's also he's twenty five,
so like, I don't think he needs you need to get caught too,
caught up in timeline with him. And then he also liked the way
he plays. If the Rockets do keep James Harden and still gravitate towards wanting
to be like, you know, super dynamic on offense, and I say
dynamic, let's say downsize, like he's someone else. He could put the
ball on the floor, as my point, like he's not just someone who
can shoot and space the floor and make sure that they're five out or at
least four out at all times. Like he can put the ball on the
floor and really do some stuff with it, and he's comfortable getting through traffic.
So I'm actually okay with that contract. And I thought it was a
fairly smart move by them, which might say something good about the future of
their front office under Raphael Stone. But as long as Toby Friteetha is there,
like they're absolutely screwed. And the Robert Comington, Trevor Ariza stuff,
like I get like the machinations of like how that was used to, you
know, then help get Christian Wood. That's the stuff that makes me an
easy. And of course there's the hardened thing like not really being able to
figure that out and letting it get to a point where he went from you
know, plausibly eventually possibly whatever was phrased as being unhappy to just flat out
unhappy. They're they're clearly losers because of that, and I think, look,
they're finding out their losers all over againting that Westbrook deal just based on
the market. It's funny like amid all this, like all the free agency
rooms are flying, then there's that talk of Westbrook for Wall being started,
and then Wall just like requests a trade at the height of free agency,
and it felt like no one really talked about it, like that's where we're
really at. I actually do think Wall, if he was healthy's a better
fit for Houston's beside hard and anyway that Russell Westbrook is one he lives to
pass. So if you're gonna move Harden off the ball at all, why
not have someone who lives to pass do that? And then Wall has been
shooting like thirty seven, thirty eight percent on tench and shoot threes Over's past
three healthy seasons and Westbrooks has not. I'll just I'll put it that way,
but that was just like sort of a fun aside. I'm with you
though. Houston's a loser in the macro, but they actually kind of have
like one nice deal as part of all and I believe they're a plus one
in first round picks this offseason, which is big for them. I do.
I do just want to be clear that I'm not hating on the Christian
Wood contract. I do like it. I just I worry about the fact
that Detroit made it painfully clear that it was moving in a different direction.
And maybe that's just because the Pistons don't know what they're doing, but like
they do have more information about him, and when we're dealing with a fifteen
game sample of star level play, like I think that should matter. Just
the fact that they weren't willing to buy into the legitimacy of it, which
they clearly weren't because they could have matched that contract. Yeah, No,
I totally get that. I have two I'm going to loop them together because
I feel like there and there's also an obvious loser that we haven't quite mentioned
yet, and I'm sure we'll get to. But because they're like I don't
want to say they're baby winners, but they didn't like necessarily hit home runs.
One I'm going to throw out there is the Utah Jazz. I think
we're smaller time winners. People are going to kill the Jordan Clarkson contract.
He was just so unbelievably important to their bench last season, really valuable to
what they do right, And then I think this was just a case of
you know, we saw it with even Marcus Morris with the Clippers, like
you're worried about these guys leaving and if they're able to leverage like the Hawks
or the Knicks, like into conversations at all or Detroit at one point,
like you don't want them to leave. And I actually think showing a willingness
to spend on Jordan Clarkson bodes well for the future of the franchise and how
they're going to work with the you know, the ownership change. But I
like to bringing back Derek Favors as well, because now you've just decided,
like you know what, we're not going to have any net negative center minutes
anymore. And that's that's fantastic because their defense absolutely cratered last season with Rudy
Gobert off the floor. I believe team shot a preposterously high sixty seven point
five percent at the rim when Gobert was at the floor. I think it's
also important to mention Udoka as a bookie here because even as a second round
pick, he is a really good, game changing caliber defender who does a
lot of the same things that Rudy Gobert does. Just if he is going
to be able to even play eight to ten minutes per game and provide that
same suffocating around the rim defense, maybe without as much switchability as you'd get
from Derek Favors or Rudy Gobert. That plays into the same notion that the
Jazz just are not willing to have a defensive drop off at any point in
the game. And yeah, so I liked that they did that there he
was and Derrick Favors when he was healthy last year, Like we kind of
saw peter out towards the end of the season, and that's the risk you
take there, but I like it. Even look, you have Donovan Mitchell
locked up. I believe he did get his player option on the fifth year,
which is normally that's a concession players tend to give up. But I
guess they have more levers than ever. But look, you have him locked
down. I think that's the important He's more important in their future than Rudy
Gobert. And I'm not trying to pit them against one another right now,
that's just a fact. And the other team that I thought did well was
Dallas the I really like the Josh Richardson trade, and I love Seth Curry,
who might be one of the more underrated defenders in the league. Not
even just his effort leftl like he can put full pressure on the ball even
if he is a bit undersize and matchups. But Josh Richardson can defend one
through four. And he is so much better on offense than he showed last
season before he left Miami, Like he kind of showed that he could,
you know, put the ball on the floor and hit some off the dribble
jumpers, so that that's something He's not going to be that second playmaking outlet
for Don Chich necessarily shot created whatever you want to call it, but he
can help there. And you got Trey Burke at a reasonable number. It
does because they had the third year and they couldn't do the bi annual exception
with him. Like that kind of blue if you want to get into the
catmanusha of that. But I still kind of like that he had an absurdly
scorching hot eight game stint with them. I think he played with eight games
in the bubble for them, if I'm not mistaken. And then he went
off in the playoffs as well, So I think that signing was justifiable,
and then bringing Willie Calli's time back. I was happy they didn't go and
spend their entire mid level on a big People kept saying like, we'll go
after this, and like, oh, Thomson got the mid level, why
woul't you go to Dallas? Like, look, maybe you think Christops just
won't be healthy to start the year. Maybe I think he comes back in
January. He sucks. You paid Kristaps Porzingis and you also have while he
probably won't play next season, Dwight Powell on the books for not insignificant money.
And so if you already have let's say around forty million dollars committed to
those two, I don't want to see you spending any major money on a
big and then I think they kind of like the James Johnson getting him,
like now, that gives you this bigger contract too. You got off the
final year of Dellen rights deal, which is big if you want to chase
twenty twenty one free agents. They also did that, by the way,
with the Steth Curry trade, because Richardson as a player option, no one
expects him to pick up. But James Johnson now is a bigger contract that
they can use to flip in a trade this season and take back more money
if the right players out there, and they can do the mix of assets.
But let me take you to my favorite move that they made this offseason.
I am a Wesson one dude guy. I'm actually surprised that the Magic
they even look at bringing him back on a qualifying offer. They signed Dwayne
Bacon instead, which is I think that's a like fine, but like,
why did you have Dwayne Bacon instead of West of one due? And Bacon
lack some of the sizzle of a one dude You could say, nice,
nice, nicely done, but like a one due is he's at least can
hold up positionally on defense, and I think people are being a little too
critical of his jump shot and what he can do on offense. He's pretty
quick when he's turning our corner. Yes, I was watching West and One
Dude tape at some point during this offseason. He's pretty comfortable shooting off the
dribble, though he's not going to be the quickest while he's doing it.
And he shot forty two plus percent from three from January first onward last season,
I believe, And so there's something there, and for the Mavericks to
take a flyer on it on for their part a cheap cost, I think
that ends up being a really good move for them, And so I think
their offseason was something that's been like understatedly good. Would I would agree.
They have a ton of depth across the board, and you know, as
you kind of alluded to, all of these moves do nothing to impede twenty
twenty one free agency pursuits. They have a lot of movable deals, They
have a lot of new contracts that are either expiring or have player options as
you said, that are expected to be declined. And they still have Luca
don Chit and Christops Porzingis. So if this team asserts itself as a premier
squad in the Western Conference, which it is fully capable of doing. As
we saw when everyone was healthy last year. This is already a team that
can compete for homeboart advantage in the opening round in the remarkably deep Western Conference.
They're going to be really appealing in free agency next year when everyone is
hitting the market. And that's the biggest thing is you know that they are
successfully straddling the two timelines with these moves there. They're furthering their their competition
level for this coming season and they are doing nothing to hinder their future pursuits.
Yeah, that hit on all fronts and I didn't even speak to that.
They're appeal and free agency I would assume was going to be real.
Just looking at what Luca Luca is like, you would think it was already
growing after this, coming after this past season, just because of what Luca
was able to do as a sophomore. I mean, the youngest player ever
to finish was at top three in the VP voting or top five, I
can't remember. There's too much key track of right now, it's hard to
remember. But the youngest player ever to finish in the top five of MVP
voting yeah, there you go. But now it's going to be validated this
year, and I think that only that only leads to even more appeal.
And the imagine if Christopsporzincis is actually good for them like that goes. I
don't know that players necessarily think in these terms, but if they look at
him and don't see this net negative asset over the next three years looking ahead
to next summer, that's actually super huge for Dallas. I am trying to
wrap my head around who you think is the obvious loser that we haven't mentioned
yet, And the two that are coming to mind are either the Denver Nuggets
just because they lost Jeremy Grant, they did bring back Paul Millsap and Jamichael
Green in his place. They added Fecunda Compozzo's another terrific European passer, but
they don't seem like they seem more like their treading water or maybe taking a
slight step backwards than big obvious losers. Or maybe the Milwaukee Bucks just because
of how the pursuit of Bogdon Bogdanovitch was just absolutely butchered, leading to tampering
investigations and all of a sudden flipping what seemed like a move that was sure
to bring Jannison a Dakompo back into like, Oh no, what's actually happening
here? These were Those were not my teams, but those were teams I
wanted to ask you about. What would you classify them as. Let's start
with Denver. I think you said they tread water. My guests would be
a slight step back book here. It's more acceptable when you have Michael Porter
Junior and bull Ball on your roster because you have so much internal development potential
that you could afford to take like slight steps back in the name department.
I would agree, yes, And I actually like the RJ. Hampton pick
up for them, just knowing that they're investing in their immediate player development even
though they're really good now, Like, that's actually really cool to see.
And I'm a I'm a pretty I wouldn't say pretty big, but I think
RJ. Hampton has a chance to be good, right, especially on a
really good developmental team like the Nuggets. And they were prepared to pay Jeremy
Grant. They offered him the same contract he left on his own accord.
That matters in the context, But I and the Jamichael Green hiding by the
way was fantastic. Like that was you know, people were saying they need
to sign another big. I would have said that no matter what he got
or where he went, though that is trip yes, to be transparent,
But like between millsap Yo Kitchen and Jamichael Green and Michael Porter Junior, your
four or five rotation and bull ball, let your four or five rotation be
that. Maybe I understand want to get like a cheap other veteran big in
there, but like Ja, Michael Green and Paul millsapp can get you by
for backup five minutes. I think what I'm concerned about and why you can
argue they lost, is that the road to the finals for them is going
to lead through some combination of Luka, Don Chich, Lebron, James Kawhi,
Leonard, Paul George. They don't have James Harden if he's still in
Houston. They don't have anyone to defend most of those guys anymore. You
want to throw Gary Harris on James Harden, fine, you want to throw
Paul Millsapp on maybe he get by with him and Lebron James, but you're
looking at a Kawhi Leonard or Paul George, like, you lost your two
best shots at that in Tory Craig and Jeremy Grant. I think that's why
you can argue their their losers. And I'm kind of disappointed that they signed
like camp Poso one. It's a patently unfair that he's that he and Yokis
are on the same team. But I really like Monte Morris, and I
don't know what this says about his future in Denver, And I would question,
like, can we see like what camp Pozo actually does. His passing
will be fine in the NBA, but like his when you go look at
his three point splits overseas like he's never been the most efficient shooter or even
inside the like a finisher, So how does that translate? I think it
was an okay gamble, but and they probably they made that deal I think
way before they knew what was going on with Jeremy Grant, or at least
semi before it, So I totally understand that. But I like Monte Morris
better than Kamposo at this point, so we'll have to see how that works
out. I think you can. I think they took a step back,
though, I really do. I think they might actually be a better regular
season team just because Jabal Murray might be so much better that they can go
nuclear during the regular season, and they're just they're not suited for playoff success.
I guess it is the best way for me to flame it compared to
how they were last year when they had bull, when they had Grant specifically,
but even Tory Craig, Where do you land on Milwaukee unless you had
a rebuttal on Denver? Sorry, no, I think that's all fair.
I mean, you know, I'm a huge Monte Morris fan. I wish
that he would get more minutes and more opportunities in Denver. We have found
our Monte Morris common grounds. We're here. I'm glad that we got there.
It took a while for you to accept that he's an all star talent,
but I'm glad that we got there. With Milwaukee, you know,
I'm I really like their offseason, and I would like it more had they
not butchered the Bogdanovitch stuff. If you if you take if you take that
out of the equation, if that never happens, then we're talking about them
as winners, you know, like the Pat Connaughton deal. Is not a
good one. He was definitely a negative while they were on the court.
But like the depth that they added with Bobby Portius, with Bryn Forbes,
with DJ Augustine, with Tory Craig, like those are all useful pieces.
They give Mike Budenholtzer even more of free rein to not have to play Jannis
for more than twenty two minutes per game, which you know is undoubtedly a
positive. So it's it's weird just because the Bogdanovitch optics messed with everything,
but had that not happened, and the big coup of the off season,
of course, was was getting Drew Holiday, who is an absolutely ideal fit
next to Jannis, next to Chris Middleton, next to Dante DiVincenzo, who
they've now retained. You know, where he's going to be at mentally is
going to be interesting. After almost included in the Bogdanovitch. There's no way,
sorry, there's no way he finishes the season on this roster. It
feels like Dante DiVincenzo and a salary filler is going to be used to get
them something at mid season. But yeah, there's that's like, that's a
little awkward. Most likely. But yeah, like I think if you just
look at the roster now compared to what it was going into the off season,
the Bucks's upgrading. They got better. They are more of a legitimate
threat to not just be a regular season juggernaut, but a legitimate postseason contender
that could very well win a championship this year. I know we said that
each of the last two years, but it feels truer than ever at this
juncture. But the Bogdanovich optics messed with everything. So the way I look
at it is, had the butt down of a trade gone through, they
would have had a roster or at least outlook where it seems like they would
have conceded regular season wins in the name of just being better students to navigate
the playoffs. I don't think that they're much better students to navigate the playoffs,
and they were last season, which is why I think you could argue
they're a TVD because if this, if what they did gets you honest to
sign the Supermax, then they're winners. There's clear cut winners. But what's
TBD about them is one they made this investment in Drew Holiday, is he
going to stick around beyond next season. He has that player officer for twenty
twenty one. You assume that they're prepared to pay them otherwise, why trade
for him? Will he stick around? There's the Yannest Supermax that decisions a
huge part of it as well. But like I just look at some of
these moves and DJ august like, I guess he's an upgrade for you or
helps you. First of all, he's not an upgrade over George Hill,
so like I actually no, but his shooting kind of fell off last season.
He'll have more space in Milwaukee. I don't necessarily think he helps you
in the postseason, though George Hill would help you more there. Obviously,
you give up George Hill in a trade for Drew Holiday, That's not what
I'm marguming against. Actually, like Brent Forbes better for them than I do
DJ Augustine, And so to give DJ Augustine that three year deal that was
a little bit questionable to me. I will say Pat Connaughton is alarmingly important
to this roster, which is definitely a problem because they don't have like the
wing depth on defense beyond their starting lineup still, and that was the issue
kind of last season. To lose Wesley Matthews now is big. Tory Craig
is a nice pickup, but he can be a shooting liability on the floor
unless he's going to shoot, you know, thirty three percent from three.
How long can you actually play him. I don't know if they're any worse.
They're in't like that Nugget situation to me, where I don't think actually
where they're TBD. I would argue it's tough to say they took a step
back just because Drew Holiday is so much better than and Eric Blaze, and
I think that's an important thing here, But it's not clear cut in the
sense that they were winners this offseason that still want the Janna Supermax. That
has a lot to do with it, but that Magdanovitch deal. Had that
gone through, it would have been more easier to like them. I do
think that they rebounded in a good way though, Like as you said,
like Bobby portis train wreck on defense. If he's gonna put the ball on
the floor, he's not going to pass it ever, but he can at
least hit threes if he's going to be open. And so now you preserve
that's basing and again you've mentioned all the other ones, so they're in the
TBD territory for me, which kind of sucks. I would say, after
a Drew Holidays, right right, right, not ideal. There were three
other minor winners that I wanted to just run through quickly before we do your
big loser, that's all right, and just and just see where you landed
on them. Yeah, hit me with him. The Lakers. You know,
I don't think that I was gonna say that season as good as the
names would indicate Montrez Harrold, Dennis Shrewd, Wesley Matthews, as as the
big additions, they're probably better regular season players than playoff options for this team,
which isn't great when it's a championship contender, but just the added depth
is important for a team that wants to keep Anthony Davis and Lebron James healthy.
So I don't think they're as big winners as the names would indicate and
as their fans want to believe, but I do think they still qualify as
winners. See, I was gonna say the winner is the Lakers Clippers rivalry,
because this is absolutely hysterical. The Clippers starting center is currently Zubats,
who they took from the Lakers for nothing, and then now the Lakers have
Harold, who it seems like the clippersn't necessarily want, but it's just hysterical
that he wins six Men of the Year and they ostensibly let him walk across
the hall, so to speak. So I'm with you the talent, the
value that they got in everyone they signed. Looking at the Wesley Matthews deal
the Harold deal, of course you make like that basically it's two years at
most at the mid level, Like that's a good value for what Harold brings
you. Even Marc Gasol obviously getting him for essentially the minimum, like that's
a huge deal as well. I just don't know if they're the best fits
for this roster, and I would have liked to have seen them, you
know, Mark Keith Morris coming back is big for them, but they got
to a situation where they couldn't afford to even think about losing KCP after trading
away Danny Green, so it feels like they need like another three and D
wing type. But I'm with you that you could look at the value they
gotten all these deals. If you tell me, Dennis Shrewder is seventy five
percent of the player he was last season. They end up having a mega,
huge off season. Agreed number two. I think they're more of real
winners than minor winners, and that's the Portland Trail Blazers. The biggest move
was making the deal for Robert Covington with the Houston Rockets, but they also
made an intriguing upside flyer with Harry Giles. The third Ennis Canter played really
well for them in the playoffs when he was there in twenty eighteen nineteen.
Carmelo Anthony was a good fit both on and off the court, so him
coming back on a minimum contract is a good thing. You're retaining Gary Trent
j You're adding Derek Jones, and you still have Rodney Hood Like these are
all These are all good moves that I think kind of validate Portland's belief that
it can be more than just this middling team. I agree with everything you
say on the Blazers. I really like the Covington trade, the Hood contract.
I think that's a nice return play for them. He was shooting fifty
plus percent on catching shoot threes when he got injured last year. Worse comes
to worse. I do believe he has an implicit no trade since they resigned
him using bird rights on a one year deal with an option that is a
salary. You can move though in a trade if you need to match salary
should he agree to it. And then I really like the Harry Gisle signing.
As you already mentioned, you even have more. I won't say I
don't want to crap all over a sun Whiteside, but like you have better
fitting backup, big play and as Canner. Now, if you know Narkitch
needs to be off the floor, you don't want to put Collins at the
five revenues Giles. So I really like what Portland did too, even bringing
Mellow back, I'm okay with I know people were kind of bent out of
shape. Yeah, if you're gonna tell me that he's playing over Gary Trent
Junior or you know, Robert Covington and closing time, I get it.
But I'm not going to be bent out of shape less like depending on I
think you're built to play matchups now, is what I'm saying. If you're
gonna close with Derrik Jones Junior, sometimes that's fine. If you're gonna close
with Mellow sometimes I think that's fine too, you don't want to be one
size fits all, and I think the Blazers have kind of built out their
wing rotation to a point where they just have a ton of options. Yep.
My third minor winner is the Toronto Raptors, which might seem like a
weird thing to say about a team that lost Sergebaca and Mark Gasol to free
agency, but the Fred Van Vleet contract is a great one. I loved
the draft pick of Malachi Flynn, and then they made a number of good
under the radar additions. Chris Bouche, who I know you love, Aaron
Baynes, who is a solid veteran big man who's never going to demand too
many touches, who's gonna set tough screens for everybody. But I don't know
whether he or Kyle Lowry is going to set tougher screens this coming season.
Alex lenn is a good depth big DeAndre Bembery feels like a really good Raptors
style player where he's not going to do anything glamorous, but you know that
he's going to work hard on both ends. He's going to use his speed
to his advantage. He can turn the corner. He just feels like someone
that that Nick Nurse is going to get something out of This team continues to
be really deep and still have top level talents. I'm that's pretty bold to
call them a winner. It feels like a bummer that four of their players
over the past two years, Daddy Green, gasaal Obaka, and Kwai Leonard
left Toronto for the Los Angeles teams. But they weren't definitive losers, I
would say in an off season where they lost Gassoul and Abaka, neither of
whom was particularly important to the big picture. But I am interested that you
call them winners. That's definitely an intriguing slant to take. We missed on
We've covered them in depth, so I'll mention them and we can move on.
Phoenix was a big winner this offseason. I wasn't I view that more
as trades than than oh. I was gonna say, getting Jay Crowder was
big, Resigning Dario Saris, like this roster's built, getting Javon carter Back,
keeping Cameron Payne. All those moves matter to me. Even Eaton Moore,
I view is a nice ddition. The move that I was actually like
that my least favorite move of their of theirs was draft and Joe and Smith.
I thought there was different directions that they should have gone in that spot.
Still, they're kind of clear winners the loot. I wanted to ask
you about two teams. One is my clear loser I'll get to and then
where do you land on Philly This offseason, I think they won their their
winners for sure. They moved the Al Horford contract. They added so much
more shooting around the Simmons and b duo in Seth Curry, in Isaiah Joe
and Danny Green. Bringing back Mike Scott, Dwight Howard and Tony Bradley are
interesting depth pieces at center. Like this is this is a really good roster.
Now we're even on Minnesota. I was not a fan of their off
season in general, mostly because they invested the number one pick and Anthony Edwards,
who, as we have firmly established, I don't think is going to
be a particularly great NBA player. That the investments in in Juan Hernan Gomez
and Malik Beasley are are interesting given how much wing presence they already have.
Moving to acquire Ricky Rubio might make things easier for others, but it's also
going to take the ball out of the hands of De'angelo Russell, which is
where he's best. It's going to take the ball away from Karl Anthony Towns,
It's going to take the ball away from Anthony Edwards. I feel like
Minnesota is pursuing names at the expense of cohesion right now. Yeah, they're
losers to me because sixty million dollars from Malik Beasley feels like a whole lot
of money. And I liked the Ricky Rubio pickup. I think that actually
gives you someone who could defend in the backcourt. You can get De'angelo Russell
running off the ball a little bit more, obviously having two years left,
and you're worry about how he fits with Jared colvern at the Edwards being there.
But I actually didn't mind that play by then, and I don't really
I don't really mind the one. Hernan Gomez guy, like, I don't
think he's necessarily going to turn into anything. But at three years and I
think it was twenty one million dollars, that's not too big of a deal.
It's the Malik Beasley one is the more unsettling move for me. My
Actually, I'll go ahead. I was gonna say about Ribio. I co
own a team in a multi sport fantasy league where we have the four major
men's leagues in US sports, and we're trying to decide if Ricky Rubio is
a keeper at four dollars, and it was difficult enough when he was still
in Phoenix, and then he went to the Thunder and it was like,
Okay, he's gonna get opportunities. And now he's in Minnesota with an unclear
role. So that's I'm I'm upset about where he's gone for that reason too.
That's a good all right, fair enough my obvious Oh last last team,
I'm actually gonna ask you, war what did you think of Miami's offseason
so far? Goran Dragic was a great retention for them, you know,
Jimmy Butler made it especially clear how much he wanted drag back, and he
got him. But it kind of feels like they've they've just flown under the
radar while maybe over prioritizing their cap space for next season, Like I don't
think that Avery Bradley is a game changing acquisition, and you're putting an awful
lot of faith in continued growth from BAM Adebayo and from Tyler Hero if if
you want to continue being a title contender. I don't know that they did
anything to bolster their position or even maintain it. Yeah, the thing for
me letting Jay Crowder go like it feels like maybe he just wanted the you
know, the three years, but they could have basically given him like a
one year, eighteen or twenty million dollar deal. He feels like a big
loss to me, And particularly when you're not adding someone who gives you as
much. Here's the word, you love optionality on offense, like Mo Harkless
is solid, but he can't put the ball on the floor and you you
know, maybe he'll hit his three is. I know Crowder's topsy turvy,
but he's at least someone who's a little bit more reliable and definitely higher volume
than a heartless and you know, drags back that was a great move.
And I'm just wondering, is Tyler it still feels like they need another like
ball handler shock creator and it's not gonna be able to Bradley, which means
that you meet, you believe it's gonna be Tyler Hero almost immediately my one
loser that we didn't really talk about the moves that they made were fine,
but the Warriors are huge losers. The Clay Thompson injury, we have not
podcasted since it happens like that is just absolutely monstrous. I'm not among the
people that think that they should blow it up, but this has huge implications
on their future, and so I'm curious. One I think you're with me.
The Ubre acquisition, signing campaigns more. The brad Wanamaker one I actually
really love is probably my favorite move that they've made the draft, and James
Wiseman that that was fine too. I just feel uneasy. I would still
pick them to make the playoffs if everyone remains healthy, but like this might
be the last we've seen of the title contending Warriors as we were expected to
know them, and that's a huge loss to me. Here's my thing is
that I don't want to call them losers because injuries are ultimately beyond their control.
Like I just I don't feel comfortable labeling them as a loser because one
of their star players got hurt. I think that, if anything, I
would say that they're a winner because they navigated that well. You know,
the Ubre trade was a net positive for them. I really liked the fact
that they did end up drafting James Wiseman, who I think is a really
good fit there instead of moving that pick for a veteran or instead of going
a different direction with like LaMelo Ball and the signings that you mentioned Brad Wanamaker
in particular, Like, I do think that that just adds more depth to
this roster, which should have a healthy Steph Curry. They're probably going to
continue trying to make a move based around Andrew Wiggins's massive contract. Whether that's
going to come to fruition is to be determined. But I think if the
only reason we're calling them a loser is because Clay Thompson unfortunately has an achilles
injury one year after the ACL tear, that the rest of their off season,
they did the best that they could with it, fair enough, Would
you if you're them, as the final question, would you trade for James
Harden if that deal? If the deal is available to you, would you
trade for James Harden? I would? I wouldn't think that. Have we
talked about it in an episode before? Was it just on the side I
can't remember now because I wrote about it, so I can't remember the exact
deal that I came up with. I'll bring it now as we're talking,
but we were talking about whether it would make any sense, and I think
it. I think it kind of does. The deal would have to look
something like Kavon Looney, Eric Pascal, Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, Minnesota's
twenty twenty one first round pick, a twenty twenty two first round swap,
a twenty twenty four first round pick, a twenty twenty five first round swap,
and a twenty twenty six first round pick, and I have him getting
both Harden and Tucker. If Houston won't give you Tucker in that deal,
I think you haggle over whether you can take Pascal out of that deal,
but those were the terms. If I were the Warriors, I would do
it. That's an awful lot to give up. But like I think so
too, Like Steph has shown with the Kevin Durant era in Golden State that
he is willing to alter his playing style to best fit those who are around
him. He's an elite off ball weapon. You know, taking the ball
out of his hands isn't necessarily ideal, but he can do that. And
ultimately, like if you're a golden State. You have to view what the
title window is and act accordingly. And this isn't a roster that is set
up to kind of straddle contention now and future growth, especially knowing that Thompson
probably isn't going to be his old self when he comes back from these injuries.
You know, he relied so much on those quick lateral movements and moving
off the ball and staying in front of guys on defense. Like that's that's
unlikely to be retained in full coming off both an acl injury and an Achilles
injury on opposite legs. So like, if you if you have an the
opportunity to add another top five player, you do it, especially knowing that
he could be a good fit. I have zero to add there. This
was fun. Did we miss anything? Leave a team off where we just
completely flat out wrong and you disagree with us, feel free to hit us
on Twitter at Framo zero nine is Adam, I'm at Dan Valley fa v
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