Made a decision. Peace Sonny sun On Iheadvision. Nice night. Hey everybody,
welcome to our very special episode Thursday. Special guest we have in studio
is Tany Laura. She is a host of Recovery Rocks podcast and she has
a book called dry Humping. I love that title. Well, thank you
so much, thanks for coming on. I we appreciate it. We know
you're on the East Coast and we're out here on the West Coast. Yes,
yeah, so, uh let's talk about I'm mixed. I want to
talk about your book, Dry Humping. Can you tell us a little bit?
But that's about yeah, definitely. So you know, when I quit,
when I quit drinking, the thought of dating, let alone hooking up
about alcohol really scared the hell out of me. So this is the book
that I needed when I was newly sober. I mean, this is the
book that I needed when I was still drinking. Let's be real, but
this is definitely the book that that I needed. And you know it's it's
structured. It's in three parts. The first part is about you know,
being single and dating. The middle part is about sex and figuring out like
reconnecting with your body and your sexuality. Without alcohol. And the last part
is about being in a relationship. It's about communication and setting boundaries and advocating
for your own pleasure and and all of these things that you know, we
were not taught, especially as women, that I really dig in. Uh
as a journalist, you know, it's not a memoir, It's a journalistic
perspective, an investigation on the role that liquid courage plays in our love lives.
How long have you been sober? A little over eight years now?
Now, can you tell us a little bit about like your story, you
know, what was your drinking like? Because I think that I think that
you know, we talk about I was on Tawny's show, I think you
know that and it was awesome. It's a great podcast that she does with
her partner friend partner Lisa, who wrote a book called Girl Walks out of
a Bar. So they both have books about getting about sobriety, and we
on this show talk a lot about addiction. And I mean, this is
kind of an intervention on Lynette. I'm just kidding. That's why I'm here.
Okay, I understand now, No, But you know, I think,
Lynette, I think that for a lot of women, even if they
even if they don't have an alcohol problem, rely on alcohol to date and
just to feel comfortable. And some of the things that you mentioned just about
advocating for your you know, your own pleasure and figuring out what works for
you. I think that's difficult. I think some of the reasons we drink
is to avoid that, is to feel more comfortable, is to feel more
like disassociated, dissociated from our bodies, right, so that we can,
Yeah, I think allow feel more sexy and be more see ourselves as more
like crazy in bed. And I have a lot of friends in sobriety who
told me that back when they were drinking, even you know, married friends,
they were like, oh, that's how I like. We were kind
of crazy and you know, use sex toys and stuff. And then as
soon as you're sober, you're like, oh god, I can't do that,
you know. So, I think your book and it's really important.
So, yeah, tell us a little bit about your story. Yeah,
so, and I I appreciate you saying all of that. It's it's one
hundred percent correct. I'll tell you my story in a bit. I'll just
add on what you said. Yeah. Initially, initially I wrote this book
for it was written through a lens of for people in recovery, like myself.
But the more that I researched liquid courage and alcohol with sex, dating,
and relationships, I realized that this is not just a people in recovery
conversation. This is a conversation for anyone who dates, anyone who's in a
relationship, anyone who drinks alcohol or has consumed alcohol to you know, rely
on that liquid courage to get through a difficult conversation or try something new in
the bedroom. So it's it's written through more of a sober, curious lens.
You know, I'm I am not anti alcohol. I'm not a prohibitionist
by any means. It really is. I am. I'm trying to bring
back prohibition. You know, we need people fighting on both sides, Jephany
So, but it's yeah, So I just I wanted to add that.
So like if people are listening and they're just like, oh, but I'm
not sober, it's totally fine. So you know, I was a stereotypical
party girl bartender back in the day. I mean it was you picture like
this young young girl going wooh, dancing on the bars and all that stuff.
That was me I was either bartending or on the other side of the
bar or dancing on it. Where were you living? Were you in New
York? I was not in New York. I actually I grew up in
Texas. I grew up in a small town in Texas. And I moved
to New York June of twenty fifteen to pursue writing. And I got sober
in November of twenty fifteen. So that was that was None of this was
part of the plan, you know, But you know I I I was.
I tell you that I would come from the bartender, party girl background
to really paint that picture and just show that that was my whole world.
That was where my friends were, That's where my hookups were, That's where
my romantic and sexual relationships began and ended. Mut'st be real. The bar
was my whole life, you know it. Really being a drunk party girl
was my whole identity. And I never thought to question my relationship with alcohol
because I hung out with every All my friends drink the same way that I
did. But once I moved to New York, that's really when it began
to shift. I hung out with people like I quit the bar scene.
I was taking writing classes and yoga, and just like you know, I
was still drinking, but it was very different because I was hanging out with
people who had like one or two drinks, and it was just it was
I was like, what is this? These people just stop after two,
Like what are they doing? But you know, there was one one day
in particular that I'm I'm sitting in a pub with some friends and we were
talking about why we moved to New York and how we don't have enough time
to do the things we wanted to do here. Mine was writing and I'm
just like, I don't have enough time to write. And then something just
really clicked. When I left the pub, I was like, I just
spent four hours in a pub talking about how I don't have time to write.
Maybe there's something there. So my thirtieth birthday was around the corner,
and I actually I gave up alcohol for a full year and I started a
blog and the blog held me accountable for not drinking, and the not drinking
held me accountable for the writing, and it was just this really beautiful accountability,
very SYMBII. Again, this is twenty fifteen. We didn't have words
like sober, curious back then, but that's definitely what I was. So,
you know, that year comes to an end and my friends are like,
are you going to drink again? And I was like, I don't
think so, Like I'm I'm good, you know, like that that year
without alcohol, I was just I was. I was blogging regularly, I
was starting to do freelance work. I was. I got into therapy,
and I really started to unpack why I was drinking the way that I drank.
I was like, there was I was not attracted to alcohol in the
same way. So yeah, I have not drank since. And it's been
over eight years now, and the book really came out of that whole that
whole chapter of my life of you know, drinking and having drunk hookups and
then getting sober and then dating and learning how to have sex again, especially
coming from somebody who didn't have some kind of rock bottom moment where you're like,
oh my gosh, drinking is going to ruin my life. You know,
I've got kids, some things like like like some people have, it
came out of you just a decision, which is great, But I'm saying
like for those of us who are like, yeah, I need to make
that decision, but like, oh my god, trying to date without alcohol
that I feel like that would drive a lot of people back to drink.
Like, how was it, especially if you were coming from that's how you
operated with alcohol helping you with that? Like, what tell us about the
first time, you know, did you try to date sober guys? Were
you just? Were you super uncomfortable the first time? I want to hear
the nitty gritty yes, and yes. I didn't necessarily start dating sober people.
I was just I was I realized that I was okay with with dating
people who drank occasionally. If you're getting wasted, I can't date you if
you're you know, if you if like people smelling like alcohol, that was
really tough for me, or kissing if they smell whiskey and cigarettes, it
was like so triggering. But if you're having a glass of wine while we're
sharing a pizza, that's that was fine with me. And everyone has their
own version of that, you know. I was comfortable with that in the
same way I was able to just I was able to stop alcohol, stop
drinking alcohol. Some people need medical assisted detox treatments. Some people need,
like you know, a true rock bottom moment, so I definitely acknowledge that.
But for me, you know, I think because I come from the
bar scene, I still just feel comfortable around alcohol. It's just not for
me anymore, if that makes sense. Yeah, I do too. My
husband drinks, he just doesn't drink a lot. I always thought he drink
a lot, and then when I quit drinking, I realized, oh no,
I was leading the party like it was always me going like, let's
open another bottle wine, like he's never one time. Well, he never
over drank even when we were together, except for a couple of times with
me on vacation, and that was with me going like, let's do shots,
you know, and then it was then that was the only time he
was ever, like felt sick the next day, whereas I was regularly hungover,
and I just assumed that I was with a guy who drank the way
I did. No, he doesn't. He He's one of those people,
which is which gives like, oh, I forgot to eat vibes where he'll
just be like, I haven't had a drink in like two weeks, and
I'll go why not He's like, yeah, I just forgot, I haven't
bought any and then I'm like, fuck off. Yeah, I think about
food all the time, like, well, I'm eating lunch, I'm thinking
about dinner. I love food. And like when people are like, oh
yeah, I just it's two o'clock, I forgot to eat today, I
cannot relate. And in the same way, if I see someone sitting at
a bar and they leave a pint glass half full and they just leave,
I'm just like, you're not going to finish that. Alcohol abuse? Alcohol
abuse, Yeah it is, that's aphol Okay, So what happened? So
the first take us through like your first time, because obviously you had to
have had some uncomfortable experiences to want to write. We all know, I
know, and you know that writing a book is freaking hard. So to
to you know, you have to feel really inspired. And how long,
well did you write the book? Well, this is why this book is
not a memoir, Stephanie. But there's a reason that I did not write
the Tawny Laura story. Uh huh. But it took me. You know,
it's such a weird answer, but like, you know, I got
the book deal in twenty end of twenty twenty twenty one, and then you
know, I then you have to you find an agent. It's just it's
such a mess. It's so hard to really answer that question because I'd had
been writing. I've been writing this book for years. I spent years writing
it as a memoir, and then I realized I don't want to write a
memoir. And then to personal I yeah, you know, I was.
I workshopped it. You know, if if you've never if listeners have never
been in a writing workshop, it's you know, people sitting in a circle
reading their work, giving each other feedback, asking questions. Uh, you
know, it's it's very beneficial to the writing process. And people asked wonderful
questions, and then it made me realize that I don't want to answer them.
There's a lot that I want to keep to myself. So I look
at memoirrists with the utmost respect, because like, y'all go there, Yeah,
really, really go there. I teach memoir writing actually, and uh,
exactly what you're saying, I do it over zoom. But we take
turns reading and people ask questions, and yeah, like you got to you
gotta get comfortable sharing pretty fast. So I can understand if that that would
be a deterrent to writing a moment very much. And you know, a
lot of those pieces, a lot of those chapters that I didn't turn into
the book, they became, you know, other essays that I published,
or they became topics that I researched from a more journalistic perspective. You know,
the book has my story like as a little thread going through, like
you do hear, you hear a little bit about my story, but it's
more. I interviewed dozens of people and doctors, therapists, mental health professionals,
neurologists to learn about like the brain chemistry. And I also interview people
who still drink, I interview people who are sober. I really wanted it
to be just a comprehensive, like I said, investigation. But you know,
I had been writing as a freelancer. I had been writing about sober
sex and dating for years is before I got the book deal. So that's
also why it's difficult to say how long did it take you to write the
book because I'd been writing and researching about it for pretty much since I got
sober. It really helped me learn how to date, you know, like
being being an annoying journalist helped me learn how to date. If that makes
sense. Yeah, but tell us about some of that early uncomfortable yeah dating.
Yeah, so you know, I this is where the pleasure advocating for
your own pleasure part comes in. When I quit drinking, I also stopped
faking orgasms. And that was, Yeah, that was not planned at all,
my very first sober sex experience. It was, you know, I
was hooking up with someone. We'd been on, you know, a few
dates, and I told him. I was just like, I'm new to
this. I've never I've never hooked up without alcohol before, so I really
need to take my time. And he was very patient, very kind.
He was just like, yeah, do whatever you feel comfortable, will go
as slow as you need to something. Advocating for myself like that, I
would have never. I never did that when I drank ever. Ever,
Ever, I was usually in the bedroom. It was more performative. I
was usually there for the other person, trying to perform for them, which
is where that yeah, I mean most women do, sadly, which is
where the faking orgasms comes in. You know, Like what, I didn't
spend enough time thinking about my own pleasure, about my own body, So
getting sober really gave me a chance to as corny as it sounds like stuff
and you could probably relate. It's like you meet yourself for the first time,
and so there's a lot to say there. But you know, sexually,
dealing with body image issues, dealing with some of my sexual hang ups,
like with some PTSD, it was it was tough, you know,
which is why I say I advocated for myself for the first time, because
I you know, when you get sober, you learn these tools, you
learn how to set boundaries, you learn how to communicate. So I'm hooking
up with this guy and we're going through you know, like we're having a
good time, We're going slow, and I get to this point where I'm
like, this is usually the point where I want to fake an orgasm,
but I don't want to do that anymore. And he was like, great,
great, you said that, you said this is the point where I
would fake it. Yes, yes, God, I love this conversation so
real. Yeah, and he was like, great, don't do it.
Yeah, he was like, please don't do that, Like this is I
want. I want you to feel good, I want you to enjoy yourself.
So I am so lucky that my first sober sexual experience was incredibly positive,
incredibly patient and kind. Did you come no? No? Oh no,
I was so in my head. I mean, of course, that's
another that's another thing, like a lot of you know, I'm glad you
just vacant in the conversation. Could you imagine if I talked about faking orgasms
but I lied about no no, no no. Like a lot of sex
educators and sex writers right now, the conversation is really about more about pleasure
as opposed to being laser focused on climaxing, because, especially for women,
climaxing can be incredibly difficult, especially when there's a whole bunch of other stuff
going on, like like in your head and yeah, grocery store and you
have you have anxiety, and there's there's so there's so much going on.
So there's a lot of conversation about just like really reeling it in, going
back to the basics, rediscovering your body, yourself. What do I even
want out of a sexual experience? What does pleasure mean to me? What
does pleasure mean to my partner? You know, really having these conversations with
yourself and with your partner. That's more of the that's that's where the sex
positive community is, right now it's way less orgasm focused because it puts it
puts pressure on us to fake you know. Yeah, Also when you're dating,
I feel like you there's a thing where you feel the performative thing comes
in where you're like, but I I have to seem like just laying there
and going like yeah, I don't know if it's going to happen is not
sexy, like you know, And we're so trained to want the guy to
feel good like he's pleasing us, that we're trying to please him to feel
like he's pleasing us, so they'll want to see us again and think that
we're sexy. And you know, it's and I think I think it's just
way more common than people think. Oh yeah, very much so. And
every time I talk about this, every time I talk about faking orgasms and
being performative in the bedroom, when whether it's you know, at a live
event or on a podcast like this, like every woman in the audience is
like waiting, like nodding frantically nodding like yes, yes, yes. It
takes a lot of confidence not to fake it, or a lot of vulnerability
or bravery to just be like yeah, but I love that you did that.
Okay, so that's amazing. So go on, oh, let's take
a quick break first. I'm sorry, Okay, let's take a quick break.
Okay, we're back. So this is so interesting. So then what
happened? So you're with this guy? So the first by the way,
what a great guy. He was great. You know, we dated for
a few months and it you know, it we he's not the man that
I married. He married like, you know, but I really look on
that that first sober relationship with kindness, and it was just it was a
really beautiful relationship and and it didn't end badly. It just you know,
which is another thing. There's actually a chapter in my book about sober breakups.
I learned in sobriety that breakups actually don't have to be this like really
big dramatic thing. People can actually just split amicably and be friends. And
it's hard. Not every relationship can do that, of course, but we
communicated, you know, and that I think that was really beautiful. But
I kept, you know, I kept dating. And I also when I
got sober, I came out as bisexual, and really, you know,
learned a lot more about what bisexuality means to me, and I met my
now husband, I was two years so he and I were each two years
sober. Oh wow, I actually met Yeah, So like we were each
sober for a couple of years and then we found each other. So we
have recovery in common, which is so so special to me. But you
know, in between, it was a lot of I didn't date a lot,
you know, I dated like that. I hated the apps. I
hated the apps so much people when I was dating, they just wanted to
talk about sobriety, and I was like, God, there's like so much
else I want to talk about, right and so much I'm so much more
than this because it's like, you know, when you're setting up an online
dating profile, like one of that Another chapter in my book is like how
to set up your dating profile when you're sober or sober curious? Is like
do I put it on my profile? Do I wait until we meet I
r L? Do I wait until we're DM ing? And there's and I
really break apart all these different the pros and cons of each approach so the
reader can figure out what feels best for them. So crazy that, uh,
being sober is such a big deal. It's like it's like seeing that
you have kids from a previous relig you know what I mean, that you're
like a single mom or something. It's like, oh yeah, kind of
that. That being sober is some kind of baggage. It's so crazy,
it is. And it's what's interesting is that in the dating world especially,
yes, yeah, very much, and it's you know, we all have
baggage. And I think when someone is upfront and self aware of their baggage,
it can be intimidating for the person for the person who is not there.
Then they that they feel like they need to explain why they drink to
you, They need to explain this. And I dealt with that and it
was so freaking annoying. But I was single for a lot of time too,
you know, like I think I called it. You know, the
first chapter of my book is called Dating Yourself. And I spent a lot
of time getting to know me, getting to know my body, getting to
know what I want in a relationship, what I bring to the table,
what I want someone else to bring to the table, learning different ways to
explore my own body. So when I do have a partner, sex can
be better because I'm not performing anymore so It's like, I think even if
you get sober when you're in a relationship, I think you still need to
do a lot of solo time, you know, be dating yourself, whatever
that means to you. But really figuring out who you are as a sexual
being without alcohol is crucial, right. Wow, it's really interesting, you
know. I mean, I mean especially coming from somebody that's been married for
so long and you know it wasn't really didn't really drink that much. I
mean once in a while, but like didn't have to get drunk to get
you know, intimate or whatever. But but now like you're single and it's
like going on a date, it's like, of course, everybody's gonna have
a glass of something, glass of wine or martini something like it's just normal,
you know what I mean. But what like how what did when you
were like getting to know yourself and doing like self help things. What were
some of the things did you you went you had therapy? Did you do
yoga? Did you like so you just or you just went straight to work
and just worked and kind of like the above, all of d all of
the above I had. I have been a Yoga's been a big part of
my life. For a while. I'll actually and it got my yoga practice
got a lot deeper when I quit drinking. Yoga and meditation. Meditation,
Yeah, that's like once you've really transcended, it's just a yeah. I
actually did yoga teacher training. What Yeah, I went to Bali for a
month and I did yoga teacher training. I took a lot of writing classes,
I studied improv, I studied Spanish. Like I, you know,
when you quit drinking, you a have a lot more money than b have
a lot more time. So I filled my time. You know, I
was a new, brand new New Yorker who was just like it was like
a playground for me. I was like I So I just explored and I
played and I met really interesting people. And as you know, and I
was writing throughout it, So I was living my normal life. Some of
it I wrote about. And you know, while you're living your life,
you meet people. Sometimes they become dates, sometimes they become friends. Sometimes
they're just someone you take a class with. But I was really worried about,
like how am I even gonna make friends without alcohol? And you meet
friends in yoga, you meet friends in Spanish, you know, like you
meet friends when you're doing, when you're engaging in a hobby or some sort
of creative activity. Right, how did you meet your podcast partner Instagram?
Really? Yeah? Did her? Was her book out before yours? Yeah?
Her book came out in sixteen, so and I got sober in twenty
fifteen, so sober Instagram. During that time, there was only like a
handful of us. You know, it is nothing like it is now.
And so she and I followed each other and then I saw that she was
doing uh she had a reading, you know, reading in a book signing
and it was coming up. It was on my first I say, so
birthday, my sober birthday. Uh huh. She she was doing a reading
and book signing on my first so birthday. And I commented on her post
and I was like, I'm going to come to your event. This is
how I'm going to celebrate. And so we I came, and then she
gave me the biggest hug and she gave me her one year chip from AA
which yeah, like again, we had never met before, we were just
Instagram friends and I still have it. She's you know, Lisa Is.
I just cry what I think about her. She's just such a fabulous person.
She's a she's you know her for her book is about getting sober as
a New York City high powered lawyer, you know, living that alcoholic cocaine,
working twenty four to seven life. Right. Her story and it's different
than yours. Her story and she had to go to medical assistant. D
talks like it was a very different story, which is I think why our
friendship and our podcast works so well because we're coming to the recovery conversation from
two very different perspectives, but it shows that there's no one way to get
sober or sober curious, you know. So she's just been a true mentor
to me. She was there every step of the way helping me, you
know, reading early chapters of the book. Oh wow, just yeah.
So she's she's incredible. I truly don't know where I would be without her.
And by the way, for our listeners, she was going to do
the podcast as well. She was going to be on with Tani, but
I neglected to send any sort of confirmation email. You know me, you
guys have met me like yesterday and I was like, hey, you guys
still come in. I'm going to send you over the link and she was
like, Oh, I'm giving us a talk at a like a law school
or something. I was like, yeah, you're You're way more important than
me. But this is what she does now. She speaks at law schools
and law firms. She speaks about addiction and mental health in the legal profession.
Wow. Yeah, that's amazing. That's probably very needed. I bet
you a lot of lawyers are alcoholics, just in the same way that people
in the medical field, right, A lot of doctors, a lot of
law enforcement. Oh yeah, there's high pressure, so much pressure and so
much work that it's and stressful work, you know, very very stressful work
that you people start self medicating in law school. So she's she's literally traveling
the country and doing these talks on zoom, just you know, talking to
either law firms or law schools, just sharing her story, holding space for
people to ask questions. And yeah, she's she's really doing great work.
My only issue with that is I feel like you'd have to wear, you
know, like dress up a lot for that. I like doing jobs that
I can do from my couch. Yeah, yoga pants, sweats, Yeah,
our yoga pants. Like I feel like we've all achieved that. So
tell us about the podcast. Do you guys do it once a week,
twice a week. Yeah, So our podcast is called Recovery Rocks. We
talk about recovery and rock and roll and I love that. Yeah, thank
you. So like that's what we bonded over, is like we were both
in recovery and we are both obsessed with rock and roll. So we were
trying to come up with names for our podcast and just like, yeah,
Recovery Rocks, that's a perfect name, and so is dry Humping's a great
name. Great name. I am very, very proud of that book title.
It's people are like, how did you come up with that title?
I'm like, I don't know. It just it makes I love I love
wordplay. I love puns. I mean when I told you when I turned
thirty and I started a blog to hold myself accountable, that blog was called
sobrietea Party. I really love that. I just like words so much.
So yeah, we just you know, the podcast is is really fun.
It's every Friday, thirty minute episodes where we talk about just regular just life
and recovery. You know, whether it's like setting boundaries or dating or you
know, how to how to avoid alcohol. When you're at a work event
or a holiday party, like and we have guests, you know, Stephanie's
been on and and then each episode ends with us talking about music for a
few minutes. Yeah, I love that. You can imagine how that went
with me though, Yeah, I know, Kenny, I was sore embarrassed.
I was like, well, I'm not really a rock and roller.
I think I was wearing a T shirt with somewhere and I was like,
this is very misleading. I mean I do like my I think I might
have been wearing run DMC or ac DC but or even led Zeppelin. But
I was like, that's not the greatest representation of me. I'm wore Kenny
Loggins title. But they did not shame me. That's good. Never,
Oh my god. No. As someone who is very sex positive, we
have we have this saying don't don't yuck someone else's yum, and I apply
that to music as well. I would never judge anyone's music choices. I
want to hear something like you know, and you cannot answer if you don't
want to, But like, did you come up against when you were just
getting back to so the dry humping by the way, really quick, did
you get any pushback on the title. I find that the companies they were
they like, no, we're not going to go with that, it's going
to be off putting. There was some concern that some people wouldn't get the
title, that some people wouldn't get the pun, and my editor, bless
her, she really fought to keep it. So that title is why I
had agents interested, It's why I had my editor instantly it was like,
we need this book, you know so and also you know, as as
you know, titles are always subject to change, always, so I knew
that I couldn't be married to the title because Barnes and Noble could be like,
we're not going to carry a book called dry Humping, and then we'd
have to change it. Right. So but I'm very very grateful that the
very few titles actually stay the same from conception to publish, and so I'm
so grateful that that one got to stay. Mine was originally called high Bottom
Girls, speaking of like musical. Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Oh they hated it. Yeah, well, they all went with it.
That's how I sold the book and they were all like, yeah, great.
And then as I think it was after I turned in the book,
they were like, so we want to change the title, and I was
like, why this is like I was, I was married to this title.
I was like, this is the book, and they were like,
we don't think people are going to get it. It's and I said,
well, then it just needs a good subtitle, like you you know,
the subtitle like high Bottom Girls, a journey from functional to like falling down
drunk or something right that was actually could have been a good subtitle. I
just came up with that on the spot, You're welcome, but they were
like no, so there was not a lot I could do. And my
editor was was like, I'm sorry, but when the sales team is just
saying no, it's just a no, so you have to come up with
something else. And I was like, and then was coming up with titles
that were not great, like you know, that's what they have to relax
and don't drink or whatever, and I was like, oh, oh,
her. I don't want to bag on my editor because I love, love,
love, love love her and she was probably just feeling under the gun.
But one of the chapters was called like do I have to quit or
can I just cut down? And she was like that would be a good
title for your book. And I was like, no, it wouldn't at
all. That would be a terrible title for the book. But I couldn't
say that. But I was like, I'm kind of thinking something with a
little more personality, like that's kind of a play on words or you know,
fun and she was like okay, well, and I started making a
list and then I just threw drunkish out there. I wasn't even at all
thinking it was a great title, and she was like, oh, I
love that. And then she came back and she was like, everybody loves
drunkish. We're going with drunkish. And I was like, are you sure
you don't want high bottom girls and she was like, I'm sorry, it's
definitely a no. I was so sad, but now I'm happy it's funny
because there's also I'm sure you know there's a book called Soberish that came out
last year too. I did not even know that. So I feel like,
you guys need to do an event together. Oh no, I did
not know that. I literally didn't. I mean I think I looked up
drunkish and neither was have known. Like the well, it doesn't really matter.
It doesn't matter, but I mean it would matter if it was like
I was calling a podcast that and it had the same title. Yeah,
but yeah, that's so that's so funny. Okay, So should we take
another quick break, Kaitlin, Yeah, okay, let's take a break.
Okay. So, I want to know, as a sober woman early on
in your back in your dating experience, did you find that like and I
don't know what you were like when you were drinking, but if you were
hooking up and like party girl and bartender, I mean, I remember,
I'll speak for myself. I remember when I was drinking a lot early days
working at restaurants, I had sex with my restaurant manager, like on the
floor in the kitchen after closing time. I was doing crazy, fun stuff
that would have been so far out of my comfort zone sober. And I'm
wondering if you came upon any like where you were with a guy that wanted
to like do something more crazy that you came up against your own like,
Oh gosh, that's no, that's that's so uncomfortable. Now. I love
this question. And I also slept with managers. I think that's a ride
of passage. Of course, that is a party girl ride of passage.
If you work in restaurants and you drink till you black out, you're gonna
hook up with coworkers and probably a manager. Yeah, so I totally hear
that. I love this question because you know, I did not have any
standards when I was living my drunk life, like sex and dating. Like
I was like if you had a pulse and you gave me attention and validation,
like it's on, you know, Like I just was so starved for
attention and I lived a very, very reckless life back then. And once
I got sober, I really became more mindful with people that I brought into
my orbit, whether it's friends, hookups, dates, whatever. So I
didn't do a lot of I didn't have a lot of like sober hookups,
you know what I mean. Like, I've got a few, but I
was only I've since I've been sober, I've only slept with people that you
like that I wanted to, that I that respected me. You. I
know that's kind of a boring answer, But how did you meet your husband?
We met in an AA meeting. Oh wow, that's nice. Yeah,
And it's it's funny because AA is not part of my story at all.
Like I've been to a handful of meetings, but I went to the
one I needed to go to and I we met, and we knew very
early on that we were I don't know if we knew we were the one
for each other, but I was like, this is about to be real.
This is about to be a really big relationship in my life, you
know. Yeah, and uh, and we got married last year and congratulations,
thank you. Yeah, I'm I'm obsessed with him. He's amazing.
That's great, that's nice. I just know that. That's nice. I
just know that when when I got over, there were certain things even within
my marriage that I was like, Okay, we can do that, but
I need to be drunk, you know that. Then it was like,
oh shit, now I'm sober, like I'm different, like not that necessarily
I enjoyed some of those things, but it was just like, Okay,
I don't mind getting a little crazy, like if I'm drunk, and I
would would tell him, but I need to be kind of drunk for that,
you know. And then I was sober and it was like, now
I have to really I don't know if it's fear or just like I have
to respect, like what my actual boundaries. I'm not talking anything really crazy,
but you know that I am a little more printed. I'm definitely more
prude. And you know, luckily my husband is like very sweet and like
cool, and we still obviously enjoy each other. But I'm just saying that
was I feel I have to be a readjustment for things. I think.
So I think so it was it used to being or drunk for certain things
and then all of a sudden you're like, oh shit, now what now?
What exactly? Now what? And I think that women who are already
in relationships, because I wrote about this a little bit in my book,
just about how at least if you're single, you can just go like,
well, I'm not gonna do that right now, Like I don't feel comfortable,
I don't want to have sex now that I'm sober. I need to
take some time and figure out what I want. But if you're married,
it's like a little bit tough for your significant other, your spouse to be
like, oh, we're just not having sex now because you've decided that,
like you're not comfortable, you know what I mean, Like you sort of
have to figure it out a little quicker, I think, and I think
that a book. I think it's really important for people, whether they're in
a relationship or freshly out of a relationship or dates already we're single, to
have this book, Like, I think it probably appeals to people in relationships
as well, very much. So it's you know, it's the the last
third of the book is all about like there's a chapter about how to fight
correctly, you know, Like there's there's a you know, chapter about breakups.
There's a chapter about like communicy, just communication and setting boundaries and advocating
for yourself because a lot of people think, well, like, Okay,
I found I found my my person, like the work is done, and
that is not the case. It's that's actually where a lot of the work
begins. So and especially you know, if you were already in a relationship
and then you get sober, like you did Stephanie, that's that's a whole
other thing. You know. It really is a lot of relationships don't survive
after one person gets sober, I know, because it's and it's quite devastating
to realize that that that the alcohol was the glue that held you guys together.
And it's I've seen it a lot in my line of work, and
it's especially if the the person who's not sober feels it's usually because the person
who's not sober feels threatened exactly. They know they know that they should probably
cut back a little bit or stop drinking altogether. So seeing you living your
best life as a sober, sober, curious person, it's going to cause
some some some fights. The other thing I've seen is the flip side of
that is, let's say you have a pretty serious issue and your spouse is
always on you like you're you're do you drink like an alcoholic and then you
quit and then you realize, oh shit, my spouse actually is has also
has an issue. I've seen that where the person quits and now that they're
sober, they see their partner in a different light. It's like, oh,
you know what, it wasn't just me. I was like the idea
find patient in this relationship and you got to complain about But now that I'm
sober, you seem to drink an awful lot and check out and now I'm
having to do everything and always be the designated driver and like right, yeah,
I mean this is also where a lot of codependency starts to pop up
because someone will get sober and then they'll think it's their their responsibility to save
their partner and like rescue them from their alcohol use, and we can't.
You know, nobody could have saved me. I had to save myself.
And there's I talk about this in the book where I actually give some conversation
starters for how to have those really uncomfortable conversations with like your drinking makes me
feel uncomfortable. You know you can't. You cannot diagnose someone as an alcoholic
or a problem drinker, like they have to come to that on their own.
But what you can do is set a bound and advocate for yourself,
saying like I don't feel safe around you when blank or when you blank,
it makes me feel this way. And if they continue to ignore your feelings,
then it's that's when some really uncomfortable conversations start to arise. Unfortunately,
if you were having an issue with alcohol and then you quit, sometimes people
feel really hypocritical then turning around and going like, I think you're drinking makes
me uncomfortable, And then they're like, really, bitch, because you're drinking
made me uncomfortable. For a long time and now suddenly you're sober and you're
the alcohol police. Like I think that happens to people. So I think
it's about like, listen, you know, you have to forgive yourself for
the way that you were before, and you've taken a positive step in cleaning
up, and you still, even if you created a lot of damage,
you still have a right to want to be with a sober partner or somebody
who's not getting hammered and putting you in danger. You know, it's hard
to you have to get past the idea that like, well now I have
to just put up with whatever because I was drinking for so long. I
think that's hard for people. It's really hard for people. And I think
it's the communication part that's that's really difficult. Is you know, we were
not taught how to communicate or advocate for ourselves. We had to learn those
things on our own. So if you're in recovery and you're working some sort
of program and then you come home from a meeting and your spouse, you
know, just is on their third beer and they're not doing you know,
that can really that can really create a lot of tension, and there's not
again there's I am not anti alcohol. You know a lot of people like
like yourself. You can you can be with someone who drinks because he respects
you. You know that. And you guys talk. You guys have conversations
like it's it's not easy, you know. And but and we're just talking
about romantic relationships here. But like the friend element, the family element is
also a big part of it. It's like I figured out who my real
friends are versus my drinking buddies, and that was really painful to go through.
Yeah. Interesting, Okay, Well let in in summary, tell us
all your stuff, like where are your what are your socials? Where do
we get this? I mean I already know this stuff, but you know
what I mean? Where do we get the book? Anywhere books are sold.
Go on Amazon, go on Burns and Nobles. But go ahead.
There's also an audio book if if you would want me to read the book
to you, you can get the audiobook. And I have a newsletter called
Beyond Liquid Courage where I write about just like life beyond sobriety, you know,
like what life is like now that I now that I'm just like a
person who doesn't drink anymore, And my husband and I actually just launched a
vinegar based non alcoholic bes fridge. So that's called Yeah, that's called Parentheses.
That came out two months ago. So that's that's like my that's my
full time job now. Oh yeah, I'm I'm promoting our drink. So
oh that's exciting. So where do we find that? Is it? Does
that have an Instagram? Yeah? It does. You can just go to
drink parentheses dot com or drink Parentheses on Instagram. And it's my husband is
He was a somalier, so he he crafted this gorgeous vinegar based botanical drink
and it is I obviously think it's delicious, but it's a it's a technically
two drinks. It's a before and an after, so it's like a NA
a pair of teef DJs vibes. Oh yeah, so that's that's uh,
you know, available online in a couple NA bottle shops and uh and stuff
like that. So by bry Humping and get a couple bottles of Parentheses and
follow Tawny Laura on Instagram and they can follow the podcast Recovery Rocks And thank
you so much for being so open and sharing with us today it's been really
great. Thank you, Tani, really fun. Thank you for having me.
You guys are so fun. Oh good, you were great. Come
back again please definitely okay, thank you, Oh bye, Thank you everybody
for listening. You're a parent, now, don't f it up. It's
good man,