That's when all hell brokes. I mean there was screaming and roaring and yelling,
and all I could tell you it was like scariest hell. I couldn't
wrap my head around because I'd never heard it before. It was loud as
crap. All of a sudden, these two trees start shaking. And these
trees, these two trees are eight feet maybe ten feet apart at this point,
and they're shaking like they're in a snow globe, isolated, just two
trees in a calm, tall day, and it was just two trees bowing
absolutely nuts. You get a group and try to shake that tree, you
even do it, and the yelling never stopped. It got so aggressive that
we actually backed out. It went from really nuts to crazy. We could
feel that noise that rever there. So this is all screaming, all all
this is going on, sticks, maybe rocks, things like that. You
could see splashes because we went pretty far back and it's never fired it down,
And then all of a sudden it just stopped. That was it crazy?
It was. It was a long night. Yeah, this is Bigfoot
Crossroads. I'm Matt and I am joined by the fabulous Vogel Brothers. Bigfoot
brothers man, I don't think I've ever ran across that before. Tim and
Eric, welcome to the show. Well, thank you, thanks for having
us. Which one of you guys were interested in Bigfoot first and probably around
the same time, Yeah, yeah, what got you interested in this crazy
subject? Yeah, I know it. Well, our trip down the rabbit
hole was since nineteen seventy six and literally went to see the Bob O the
Sasquatch legend Bigfoot, and it was at a local cinemas. We walked next
town over watched this thing. It was in November, I guess snow and
it was a winter time. And then come December, just before January,
all of a sudden, we had this thing come through our backyard with large
tracks. It was just huge foot tracks coming through our backyard, came up
the railroad, tracks across the river, went back down across the river again.
It was pretty you know, it's a large river. It's not no,
it's the Westfield River. This all happened a little town of Aguam in
West Springfield and basically it ended up turning out to be a hoax. Yeah,
but they were tracks that came in through our yard. Yeah, through
our apple and then they went back to the other side and they ended up.
It was a huge deal. We had people from all over the country
coming through our backyard following these tracks, and back then they didn't have a
lot of bigfoot investigators. And I believe the two that they sent out were
from California who I don't remember who they were too. We were too young
at the time, but there is an article written about it. But that's
how we got started. Yeah, so this thing just basically came through our
backyards, left some large tracks as winter, and you know, at fourteen,
you know, you're like the cool kid on the box because all of
a sudden, the news and the police and everybody's got the you know,
crazy thing in their backyard. And really no one knew about bigfoot around here
because it was a West Coast thing, I think, you know, And
all of a sudden, that movie probably spurred this guy to make the hoax.
And and you know, there's a lot of people that just fell in
love with it and all of a sudden it was a cool thing. So
how was the hoax unraveled? Did the guy just admit to it? Yeah,
you know, it was some kind of detective found out yeah. Well,
the guy started out he was a patrolman and they gave him the case
and he worked on it for years and he became a detective. And once
he'd be two years into being a detective, he figured it out. And
uh, it was just a young kid, y'all, just have playing a
game. But it took it. It took a few years from the figure
it out, but it got you guys hooked. Oh yeah, yeah,
oh yeah. That kint Us started literally he was in our backyard. So
we had these thinking and in a while, the investigator's name I think is
Lee Frank. When you go back and look through all the the the literature
online and the newspaper clippings and whatnot, I believe it was Lee Frank is
the guy. Anyway, you know, we had all these investigators like us
and you know, coming through the ark and all of a sudden, you
know, you had this weird creature in your backyard. And literally this guy
who hopesed it he really did his due diligence because he went he did he
went a long way. I mean he traveled a long way in snow and
plywood feet in order to get this out. Because he literally he came from
the Veterans Bridge up a canal road across the frozen canal, across the railroad
tracks, up the mountain to our house. Uh, followed the creek all
the way up to our backyard. Our backyard had napple orchard in it,
and uh, and then went out kind of out the back way, sort
of the way it came in up that that valley, and then walked up
the railroad tracks to the dam across the Westfield River and at that point,
and it was quarter mile wide. You know it's pretty wide. Yeah it
was. It was frozen, but uh, you know, we had rules
we couldn't we couldn't go on the ice, and we didn't. So that's
as far as we went. But you know, we were following these tracks
at work. Yeah, little bit we know it was. But it was
cool, you know, all the hype and everything going on. So Bigfoot
was in our backyard and that's how we knew. It's all America, folks,
for not Bigfoot was there. I just find that fascinating though, because
so many people you have these situations, as I'm sure you're both you know,
more than aware of where people will look at trackways and things like that
and just say, oh, well, there's no way this could have been
a hoax. Why would somebody be out here doing this? Right, the
first thing you guys encountered was somebody doing the unexpected, something that nobody would
ever do. Why would somebody do this? But yet there they were.
Yeah, there's stories out there, you can read about it. Yeah,
app in West Springfield, Aguam nineteen seventy six, December. It was pretty
wild. Were there like stories of Bigfoot in the area. Nope, No,
no, just when that movie was coming out, Yeah, we probably
saw, you know, newspaper clipping of it or something and came on the
TV maybe and we walked all the way Entagon on the Twin Sylists to go
see it. For us, that was a long walk in the winter,
in the snow, and you were seditated. Though. In the seventies there
was a lot of sightings around North America. Do you think Bigfoot in movies
and things like that had a lot to do with that. Do you think
this sort of thing happened all over the place or do you think there is
actually an uptick in side it. I think, you know, the movies
probably gave people an outlet say hey, you know, I actually saw something
like that one day, you know, and kind of whereas most people.
We've talked a lot of people in our investigations, and a lot of people
wouldn't normally talk to them or tell other people about it, and they don't
want their names mentioned or be associated with it because you're looking at a boogeyman
or a unicorn and they actually saw it, and they don't know how to
You don't know how to bring that forward and make reality or sense of it.
But you know, we've had our experience. We're knowers. We're not
believers anymore. We know it beyond that. We've had our experience, and
you cannot have it as simple as that, so we don't. I think
the movies might bring it out in people, Yeah, you know, it
might bring it might bring it out to where they can use it, like
you said, as an outlet, but they can tell their story. A
lot of people don't tell their story, you know. That's why there's I
mean, we haven't had a good report in a long time, you know,
and it's because no one wants to actually put themselves out there and say
that this is something else. I ponder quite often whenever we're looking at citing
reports to try and figure out numbers, and you know how often people are
actually saying these things. You know, here in Oklahoma you still have a
lot of rural communities and country folks that don't like talking about that sort of
thing, that still avoid the ridicule and the idea of somebody having a sighting
and then being brave enough or whatever to come forward with that information and to
take the time to think, oh well, let me look it up on
the internet. Let me look to see if there's a place where I can
actually report this too, right right, yeah, how many sightings do you
think go unreported? Tons? It's quite a bit, I would say,
really. In fact, Eric and I have have done investigations with other people
and had class A experiences and never really reported it to an official site,
you know, which is kind of crazy, because we do as researchers as
research, right, yeah, we almost We just don't think of it that
way. Right. Well, it's almost commonplace, you know, because you
know, people will scoffer something and say, well, geez, how do
they have so many you know, as a red flag, how do you
have so many experiences? Well, as researchers can get caught you go on
these calls and you get to go where the where the creature was, you
know, maybe a day or two or a week prior to look for tracks,
look for other evidence. But you're going to places where you know,
it's kind of like their activity. Yeah, perps only get called up when
they're needed. You know. It's kind of like a squatch report. You
know, you get a report, you go and investigate it. You kind
of listen to it, you take it on its merit, what it's you
know, what value is in there and and if you want to go and
investigate it, you will drive hours to go see, you know, for
a good information. Well, uh and we've driven hours to you know,
get junked too. So you know a lot of people have variations on what
they see, what they hear, what they do. You know, some
places everything's a bigfoot you know with some people. And and to us,
you know, we as guides, you know, we are an adventure business
years and we were outdoor guides. We went everywhere and uh, you know,
one hundred and fifty days a year spent outside camping or programming, and
never ever ever, you know, had had issues with any of these other
you know, like people having bigfoot incidences or anything like that, and you
know, I don't know, it was kind of it's kind of most interactions.
Yeah, it's kind of like when that we brought those school groups into
Connecticut. What got you guys on the path of actually researching and investigating this
phenomenon? A trip to the ad Aroundicks New York, New York. Yeah,
the Upper Adirondecks. Yeah, as guides. We owned the come Mount
and Outdoors and that was for about fifteen years. Retired to business, but
it was an adventure education business and we guide all over. We're New York
state license guides. We were all over New England, did international stuff as
well. So we've been doing it for a long time, well over twenty
twenty five years. But with the business was fifteen years, so years.
You know, Kobe shows up, natch out and then you know, because
it's a community type thing, you know, working with school programs, it
didn't work out so good. The Avarondics was always one of the best places
to me. I thought it was one of the nicest places because you were
out there away from everybody. Half the time. The cell phone didn't even
work. Yeah, it felt pretty remote. You know, and we used
to go out there all the time in this one area, the Floodwood area,
so we knew we knew the area very well. We've been doing it
for over ten years. And we used to take all our school groups out
there, the whole nine yards. And this one time we decided to take
our own vacation in and we went out there for for a canoeing trip,
right and uh we we paddled out, set up our camp and we uh
we went fishing and Tim. Tim was paddling the canoe while I was fishing,
you know, so he's he's watching the shoreline. I'm watching the water.
And it's probably one of the best days of fishing I've ever had.
You know, he didn't get to enjoy it as much as I did,
but I'll tell you I was catching him left and right, and they were
good sized fish. And then we there were three to four pounds small if
you ever fished around, they were, Yeah, you catch it three or
four pounds smallly on a fly rode. It's nuts, simple as breaking water.
They're all over the place. It's a good time. Yeah, But
we're headed into the uh just inlet. Yep, it headed towards the beaver
dal. So we go. We we passed this island, We going to
this in with and the fishing is just as good. It's become a fish
story at that point. You're no longer fishing for dinner and we're fishing this
braided stream. That's what it is. It's more of a braided stream at
this point. Can't really tell where it's coming from except in one direction.
So we're going up this braided stream. We're catching fish, catching fish.
We get up to a beaver dam and we're at the lower pond, so
it's probably three or four feet above our head. You know. We're sitting
in a canoe and now we're fly fishing over the beaver dam, and all
of a sudden we get a bike or I got a bike and start bringing
it in and that's when all hellbroke boosts. I mean, there was screaming
and roaring and yelling and all this all together like a cacophony of yelling and
screaming noise. It's kind of hard to put a that was this and that
was that? All I could tell you. It was like scary at cow
and I couldn't under I couldn't wrap my head around because I'd never heard it
before. All I could tell you it was loud as crap. It was
loud. So we're fishing below this beaver pond, this dam, and uh,
they all of a sudden, these two trees start shaking, and these
trees were probably we went back a year later, We went back the following
year. These two trees are eight feet maybe ten feet apart at this point,
and they are shaking like they're in a snow globe. Isolated, just
two trees in a calm summer day, fall day, and it was just
two trees going absolutely nuts and stick inches in diameter. They were big.
Oh yeah, yeah they were. There wasn't no. I mean, we
get a group and try to shake that tree and you ain't even to do
it. But but two of them were shaking like they were in a snow
globe. And the yelling never stopped. And this went on. It got
so aggressive that we actually backed out of the area. And he wanted to
go up, or rather I wanted to go up and go closer, but
but he didn't want to go so, you know, like the cartoon just
kind of ripped it that canoe. But having said that, this thing.
This was actually happening, and yeah, crazy, It was freaky enough and
scary enough. Uh. It sounded aggressive, is what it. So it
went from really nuts to crazy. Uh, and we backed out further into
the water. We're in a canoe. We were out there quite away because
we thought maybe this thing was going to charge. And yeah, because we
had no clue what it was because we never saw it. That was like
a beating up a mountain lion or something. I don't know, really no
clues, but it was that that aggressive and all the animals, like I
always said, put all the animals together in a room in a zoo,
and it was still wasn't the same noise. It was crazy. It's very
nothing you've ever heard Raul hollow yell scream, yeah, all with no wow.
So so this happens and it becomes like, I don't know if you're
a fan of Ted Nugent been to a concert, but have you ever been
to a Ted NuGen concert and it's loud and the reverb and the concert just
hits you in the chest. It's ultimately you know, it's like incredible.
And we were feeling that from this this sound that was coming from the woods,
we're you know, way back fifty yards maybe one hundred yards, going
to one hundred yards back in the water because it got aggressive, so we
backed out. We could feel that noise, that reverb that far out in
the water in the canoe. So it was like it was I don't know,
it was, it was, it was. And of course we had
no phone. We were fishing for dinner and we didn't even own a phone.
I don't think, you know, no, I don't think we have
one. Yeah, And you know, I work as a ranger. I
do this full time, and we've both. Eric's retired so he just squatches
all day. He's retired. So so I've had numerous bear encounters, black
bear and they and I'm not boasting. I'm just telling you they always run.
I've never had an encounter where it was a scary deal. They've always
taken off. They don't sit there and yell and scream and argue and tell
you and thro sticks in the lake at you or any of that. None
of it. They run. This was no way of bear. It was.
It was too aggressive. Whatever it was was was mad enough to to
push us out of there. And I mean screaming. The ones that that
that will take off from a lot of things, but we bet that one.
That one backed us right out into the middle of the lake. We
just stayed there for a while. So this is all screaming. All while
this is going on, sticks, uh, maybe rocks, things like that.
You could see splashes because we went pretty far back and it never quieted
down. Then all of a sudden, it just stopped. That was it.
We finished fishing, kind of didn't really talk about it. No,
no, we did it because we all we both knew we had a paddle
back to our campsite, which there's less much mile from where this thing just
happened on the same side. Yeah. Yeah, it's just you know,
a little bit done at the bank there and that's where it's happening. So
it's crazy. It was. It was a long night. Yeah, we
get back to camp and uh we had dinner, we had a campfire,
and uh, you know, we stayed up as long as we were going
to stay up. Eric's and a hammock and I'm in a tent and we're
separated pretty far and uh, you know that night, I don't know what
time it was. All I could tell you is something came through the campsite.
Woke me up, and I'm yelling here there's something in the campsite.
But you know, I just give him a manage up. He's a taco,
he's asleeping. Yeah, it could be it could be Kyle's wolves.
Who knows moose coming through? You've got a tripped or something, and so
it's it was going to be a bad time. And and it was gone
as quick as it came. Uh and that was it. And uh so
we got the heck out of there real quick the next morning. Next morning,
we were backed up and we're done. But that's that's what got us
going as adults, really pushed us to say, hey, what's going on.
Yeah, we this isn't normal. We could tell you everything, it
wasn't right. We couldn't tell you what it was. Yeah, but I
have a feeling it was Bigfoot. Well that's that's what I believe. I
believe one now that we Monday morning quarterback that experience, well, we've had
a lot of time to look back and listen to other stories and other people
talking about it, you know, and and meeting different people like Bobo and
Cliff and uh doctor Meldrim and a few of them you know, talking to
them, and then you hear it, then you run your story back through
your mind and you say, holy crap, there's no other thing that it
couldn't have been. There's there's just no you know. And and where we
were was very remote. And if you've ever been in the New York Lake
area, it's a boreal forest. It's thick. It's I caught the Pitbull
woods. And you don't walk in this place on purpose, you know,
the trails are cut out of there's these these forests. There's they're dark at
four o'clock, you know, in the summer, when the sun is out
till nine. So these these are dark forests, They're thick. They're not
something you're going to just randomly go bush whacking through, not on purpose anyway,
not on purpose. And this thing and where we were or whatever it
was, there was no need for it to even be there except except for
fishing. For fishing. We were there fishing. And if this is as
gnarly as an environment as it is, this thing hit dep Remember we were
at a beaver dam and this this beaver dam was shaped like a bowl,
and then it went tapered back to a stream, and I believe. We
believe that, you know, our good friend Dave mccallaugh as a hand track
a bigfoot. You know, it's this ginormous hand foss or hand cast.
It's as big as a basketball. So if you if there were two of
them there, potentially because there was two trees shaken like crazy, I can
see you you got four humongous sized mits maybe straining that water back. They
might have been pushing fish and catching fish in that little contained beaver dam.
We were there for fishing, and there was fish in the beaver in the
beaver pond, so it's very possible. I always think, you know,
why would they be there? You know, it's a random thing. You
you you know, if you're a hunter, you're probably gonna go and wait
at a you know, feed a lot of water, a lot a bed,
a You're you're going there for a purpose, for a reason. Because
they're there for a reason and a purpose. It's not the random going through
the woods stuff. That's the guy who's getting lucky. You know, he
woke up at a stone wall when he's crossing. You know, that's a
really interesting thing because I mean, in essence of beaver dam is just a
larger version of a primitive type of fish trap, exactly exactly. And these
guys have been around a long time. And dude, these they if their
mits are as big as the as the cast that Dave mccolla has. And
you they've been around in the big foot world. Everybody knows what I'm talking
about with these ginormous first so you can really scoop the water if they were
fishing, and if that's what they were doing, we interrupted it and they
got mad and they said get out of here. You know, we started,
like I was telling you, he's three and four pound smallies. They
break the water and they dance and they're you know, they're all over the
place, all across the water, and it's fun on a fly rod,
you know, five weight and it's just bending like nuts. And you know,
after a while, it was a lot of fun. Weren't even thinking
about dinner, it was. It was about catching fish. And then all
of a sudden, all hell broke loose, literally and in moments and seconds,
boom, the whole woodline just seemed like it blew up, tree shaking,
screaming, things coming out. That's absolutely nuts. That's what sent us
to really go down that rabbit hole. Yeah, then we met up with
a few other people. I actually had a camp out. We got into
the Facebook world, got into a camp out, met some people and they
had a similar story, and kind of one thing led to another. We
ended up in Ohio with the Squatchachusetts group as members. We worked with the
BFRO things like that, and now we're just kind of, you know,
doing our own thing. It's pretty interesting how different people react to these incidents
differently, the incident that you guys had, the encounter you had, you
know, and of course bigfoot hindsight, you know, isn't it something once
you learn a little bit and get a little experience on your belt and you
start looking back at your encounter, how much more information there really is there?
Yeah, why don't you think you guys decided to actually go down that
rabbit hole as opposed to just throw your hands up and walk away like so
many people do. Oh well we're out, we're outdoorsment anyways. Yeah,
we owned an adventure education business, so it was intriguing anyway. Plus it
came from our childhood, right, So this was something as an adult you
kind of latch your teeth into because you kind of remember it as a kid,
and there was some in our mind, there was some truth to it.
I didn't even know what a hoax was, We're honest with you.
It didn't care. This thing came through my bad care right and we were
like, you know, that was it. It was big fools backyard.
And you know, so then we had this experience as an adult, and
this was really truly a wilderness experience, encountering what we believed to be a
bigfoot maybe two and in a very remote area, and we had we weren't
just going home that night. We were there and we weren't coming home.
We were stuck out in the woods. So we made the best of it
by by kind of minimizing what we just experienced, I believe, by really
not talking about We sit around the campfire, ool crap, and you know,
figure, if you didn't talk about it, it didn't happen. Maybe
you want something. But then of course it woke me up, or something
woked me up going through the campsite. But yeah, so that's kind of
really you know, really getting in the Facebook and meeting up with these other
folks having similar experiences and and then kind of solidifies that well, I ain't
that crazy. We did have this experience and now I can unhabit, so
you know, I just and now we've had many other interactions and you know,
how has that happened. Well, we've got many witnesses with our our
you know, we've had multiple Class a's or or visuals and we've been there
with ten people that have seen these thiss or heard the nuts or smelted or
something like that. It's not like we just walk out and make this stuff
up. There's witnesses to back up the story. So you know, if
it's coming out of where we're talking about, there's definitely backups to prove what
we're saying as well, with both of you having the background that you have
as guides. This is another thing that interests me a lot is I talked
to a lot of hunters that have encounters, and you also hear a lot
of hunters talk about, well, if these things were out there, I
would have seen tracks. I would have ran across one by Now, you
guys were guides. Why do you think that hunters and guides and rangers can
spend so much time in the wilderness and not encounter these things. It's an
elusive preacher. Yeah, that's what it is. It's there. Just because
you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. You know. It's like
an animal. An animal, a bear can smell you what a mile two
miles away. They don't need they don't need to be next to you.
Yeah, and I don't think these things are I think these are the same
way. It's it's an animal and they know when you're there. Yeah,
it's you know, walking through the woods bear hunting or deer hunt and not
seeing anything. You know, they're aware, they've winded you, they've heard
you something else. The blue jays are giving you away. Something is talking
in the woods to let you know they're out there or you're there. Something
in the words. The woods have their own communications, and they have a
whole different pattern and and you have to pay attention, live in the woods,
pay attention to work in the woods to see these things, you know,
And there are patterns in the woods. Things do certain things at certain
times, certain reasons why, And these are patterns. They avoid you as
much as you want to avoid them. Even though you're trying to look for
them, they're going to avoid you. And curio curiosity brings them around.
Accidents will bring them. They've crossed a felt field, they cross the road.
People say it's being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I
say it's being in the right place at the right time. You know,
what are some of the patterns that you've noticed that these things have. They're
they're elusive. You can't get a clear picture supposedly, things like that.
That's a pattern, and there's reasons for that. You know, everybody says,
you know he did with with the camera, with the picture, with
the cameras and the pictures today, you should have a clear picture. Well
when you see something like down the road, even if you're standing still,
if you see something like that, your brain's not registering that. And now
you're picking up the phone and you're trying to hold it and you're trying to
take a picture of this thing. You have to unlock your phone and you
get it in there. You're trying to figure it all out and at the
same time take a picture. It's you know, it just doesn't happen to
get it one that a good clear picture in the right place at the right
time, getting good trackways. I'm sitting here with a bunch of tracks on
the table that we personally casted and never once came up with a really good
track way. Uh, October Mountain gave us, uh, you know,
half a dozen tracks, two that we were castable, and one that shows
really decent flexation in the toes. You know, it's not the perfect you
know you buy at the museum. Look at this pretty foot I mean the
cast we have at October Mountain is you know, I don't know if we
can get it here is you know, you got the heel back here where
am I at? He here shows up in the front up here, and
then if you're looking at it, you could see the where am I?
You could see the toes, the flexation. They're actually going up a hill.
I think the toes are flaking in. So I mean it's you know,
it's a cast. You know, it's it doesn't do any justice.
Uh Ever, from when you see them and you can see all you can
see the tone was digging in and you can see the you know how it
works, and there's clearly a heel that you don't get a clear cast.
That track is fifteen inches long six inches wide, and it was a half
a dozen yep. But they were somewhere in the heavy grass this came.
This came at a time in October Mountain where we were watching a potential bigfoot
walking on with fliers. There's there're four or five fliers watching this bigfoot that's
one hundred yards away. We went back the following day and we range finding,
so we're looking at something now that we didn't know at the time was
one hundred yards away in a fleer. So it's a red pixelated figure pacing
back and forth. And it was just pacing back and forth. So we
go like ten fifteen feet, stop, go back, go out twenty feet,
go back, go out thirty feet. And it did this all the
way to about one hundred feet, is pacing back and forth, got off,
it jumped down, headed to the tree line, and disappeared. That
was it. That was it. Well, we think it was pacing.
I think it was trying to figure out what we were doing over on the
other side. Yeah. I think generally when you're pacing, it's probably agitated.
It's all of a sudden, what do I do? And there's this
there over here? And I don't know exactly, maybe it was. If
it was it was pacing, then then it was probably saying, oh man,
what am I gonna do? I got caught out anywhere I go?
Which way do I go? You know? I didn't know what to do.
And there were about twelve to fifteen of us over on the other side,
and we were kind of spread out along the shoreline. So in the
process and we're watching this thing, one of our buddies, Chuck, says,
hey, do you smell that? And and so he pulls Eric aside,
Dave McCulla, myself, we were all standing there and we could literally
smell the first time we ever associated an odor with a potential bigfoot, and
and it was it was your typical I had a mutt when when they asked
me, had bears, beard, musky, wild animal? I don't know.
Maybe some I don't know, but too much farther than that. But
it was something there that you never had there before, you know, and
uh, you could definitely you saw it and you could smell it, yeah,
you know. And there were too many people there that that that that
saw it and smelled it. Yeah. We were literally all watching it and
we're saying, hey, did anybody get any video? Because these players have
videos, and it was like, you know, bluck fever, nobody's getting
video. One of us hit the video. We got like a couple of
seconds of it at the end. It was like, yeah, it was
nuts. Yep. Literally it happened. It happened. It just happens,
you know, it happens that fast that you don't even think unfortunately at the
time. But you brought up the smell and that's, you know, something
that I've experienced myself, and you hear people describe it like you guys are
saying kind of a wet musky smell. You know, people often say wet
dog. Yeah. I think that people are telling you things that are similar
to what it is, but at the same time, it's different than those
smells a little bit. Yep. Right, Yeah, what are your thoughts
on that? Do you think it's just the way they smell? Do you
think it's like an actual chemical release of some kind? It's very pot I
mean, are you a hunter I used to be. I grew up in
an outdoors family, hunting and fishing. Well, if you bring in a
wet a bear or a bear, a deer, or something like that,
large game, even some of these smaller ones that you know, they're not
running around showering, so they've got this really musky smell to them, right,
I think I think when people get the uh. I used to have
a dog that would run up to the farm and roll around in crap,
horse crap and come back to my house. And he came back and he's
stunk. Right, I'm thinking, what if it was kyokes that ran around
after a kill and it's in this elk carcass or a deer or black whatever
it is. It's dead and it's rotting, and these things are rubbing in
it, you know, like a impact some of these submissive dogs will do.
And they just rubbed it. And so now you've got this smell that
you can't associate with, and it's you know, maybe that's what people smell
as well. I mean, it's a potential way to get that rotting,
fleshy odor out there. But you wanted to know whether or not why why
the oder was there? Or do they omit the odor? Is that what
you were asking? Yeah, just your thoughts. Do you think it's just
their natural smell all the time, or do you think it's like a pheromone
release of some kind that we're smelling. It could be it could be that
it's possible, sort of like like a skunk. Ye scare it. Now
it's trying to hide itself or get away. You know, it gets all
of a sudden, there's a dozen people one hundred yards away from it.
It's you know, it's kind of freaking out. It's stressing, it's emitting,
you know, it's probably sweating. It could be very, very possible
that that's the reaction. It could be like a fight or flight reaction to
this thing, and it emits without a doubt. So yeah, it's all
good theory. It's all possible. I figure, if it can happen in
the in the natural world, there's no reason why he can't do it or
she, you know, it can't do it. So let's talk about some
of your encounters, some of your experiences. What what are some of the
more memorable events you've had while outsquatching? Well, those are pretty good.
There's all kinds of knocks and things like that. Did you get some of
the photos I had sent you on? Yeah, yeah, all right.
I don't know if you can link them in later, but if you can.
The tree twists, that was a very very unique experience. That weekend
we had gone out, another group of us had gone out and experienced.
We went to a place called Sanderson Brook Falls up in Blamford, mass and
it's just up the road for me, and we were there with about twelve
people. Yeah, yeah, we were up there with about twelve people.
And yeah, we walked up to where we came to a spot where it
was even with the waterfall, but we were on a dirt road and it
was like an opening. If people are familiar with the area. It's just
past the Sanders Brook Falls trail where it breaks off. We went up past
around it and there's a clearing up ahead, so we had a great shot
of the waterfalls behind us. And we're sitting on a dirt road. So
there's a waterfall on a cliff on one side and a cliff on the other
side. So we're literally in this little road that's cut out of the cliff.
We're sitting on this steep embankments either side, just kind of setting where
we were at. And his back is to the guardrail where we're looking over
at the waterfall, so there's nothing behind him except the steep hill. That's
it. So that's where we made it to. That's as far as you
made it. There was five of us at this actually, well, there
was five of us sitting there, and then there was some good friends.
Kevin Romero, he was up further. Kevin Romero, he was up doing
and his wife. Yeah, they were recording. He's fantastic. Well,
he was fantastic doing some recording. Every time he went out, he was
recording. He's hours and hours and hours of this stuff. Less Kevin,
But anyways, he was there and he was probably fifty yards up from us
or so, and he was recording everything that was happening. We're sitting there,
we're just you know, I was probably midnight. Yeah, there being
quiet, you know, there's casual conversation, you know, sitting there,
booming, wrapping, talking, and then all of a sudden, this this
thing. I was standing with my with my back to to the ravine,
and this thing sounded I don't know, it sounded like a rock, but
this thing was a month. If it was a rock, it would have
been big, five hundred pounds if not more. It sounded like it hit
the side of the ravine right underneath me. But it was there was nothing
there. Yeah, there was no rock. It didn't roll down the hill,
there were no leaves moved, there was nothing, and so so everybody
was like, what was that? We believe No, it's in for sund
And it couldn't have been like five minutes after that. Four minutes after that.
Yeah, there was a rock coming down the mountain right at us.
And it sounded like a good side of rock. And as it's rolling too
was on the ground and he's trying to get up. He's going, what
the hell's going on? It went, you know, he's understanding, dude.
I thought this was a freaking boulder coming down through the mountain. This
is a steep boulder or a steep mountain, and this is a rock that
was rolling down on the rock for a couple of dollars. I'm on my
plot with my elbows on the fire road and I'm sketching my feet up to
try to get up until I can get out of the way. That's how
serious this is. This is actually happening, and I think, and this
is coming down the woods and then it just stopped. It just stopped.
It was crazy. I couldn't get up fast enough to get out of the
way. I couldn't get up fast enough. It was pretty wild. But
I don't know what the sound that came from behind us. It had to
be in for some because there was nothing there. Yeah, but it hit
so hard it felt like something hit right behind you and there was there was
and there were three other people there. Yeah, I'm not gonna put out
their name. It was crazy. They know who they are that they were
there, Bobby Jean, you know, we they you know they were there.
The people that were there knew what happened. And there was nothing there,
you know. I mean if anything were to hit there, it would
have absolutely rolled down the hill because the angle was just incredible. The thing
that landed behind Eric the first rock and it wasn't anything. It hit the
rock. It hit the ground with such a vengeance and it shook the ground.
Yeah, you felt it. So we felt it. You know,
we looked, we didn't see anything. And my wife and I what started
this was Uh so we had this experience. Everything kind of quieted down.
Kevin says, I've got it on recorder, got it on the recorder.
We go back. There was some guys who I call it Team Canada with
us. Uh. It was also a paranormal investigator out of Canada. Uh
yeah, and without permission, I'm not going to drop all those names,
but Anyways, they were up there and they were having a good time.
Uh they had they experienced some wild silence as well, and they were a
little different location, but it was a fairly large group, so there's a
lot of activity. I brought my wife up there the following day and we
went We went up to the same area where we had this potential rock rolling
down the hill and where where this other rock had hit the wall behind Eric.
It was literally it's a wall. I mean, I mean, it's
a steep just back to a waterface. It's crazy. It would have left
them. It should have left a mark and or rolled down the hill,
and it did neither. It was just flat grass growing. Nothing was moved,
not old leaves, know nothing, but it was enough to shape the
ground. It was it was and all of us were like, what this
actually happened? And we sat back, wanted another five minutes and the Hada's
boulder rolling down the hill. It was stupid. I don't know what it
was happening, but yeah, that's that's that's gospel. That's the investigation part.
So I go back with my wife Kim the next day and she's she
she's definitely one air and can't here out of the other, and it's some
of it's selected, some of it, but but most of us. She's
she is, she's definitely one air, and so she couldn't hear. We're
walking along and I'm telling her, Kim, do you hear this way?
She couldn't hear it. But there was, you know, this what I
believe. We were being escorted out of the woods, and there was a
tree shaken. Again. It didn't sound like big trees like back in New
York. This was saplings things like that. And this is a really really
steep rugged area. It's stone and it's steep. It's it's sixty seventy degree
you know, inclines. This is in areas. This is really steep area.
So it's not something you're gonna walk around and do it. But this
thing, whatever was escorted us out probably a good or I guess it's maybe
a mile in so three quarters of a mile. We felt like we were
escorted out. I did. So I'm just tapping my wife on the short
Hey, let's get out, let's get out. We're walking out, and
you could hear it shadowing us up in the woods, making noise like aggravation,
not really vocal, just rustling through the woods, just kind of off
on the side following us, and we get back to what we call the
Singing Bridge. There was a wire bridge kind of thing. We crossed the
bridge, get over to the where a parking lot was, and that was
the extent of it. We got in the car and left, called Eric
said, hey, we got to go back. We got to go back.
And so we go back and go up into the areas. We wanted
to find out first where was the rock that fell or was it a tree
that fell. There's gotta be some evidence. So we went up in the
daylight the following day and and couldn't find anything that gave us any resemblance of
this large rock rolling down the hill. And dude, I'm telling you,
there was this rock coming down the hill. But it never hit it never
showed up. It never We didn't find a rock, you know, stopped
against the tree, you know, because we said, well, it's a
sudden stop. Maybe it hit a tree, you know, and there was
that We didn't. We didn't. We scoured the hillside. We could not
find anything in what we thought the area. We couldn't find anything. And
and then we got into one area where it's trashed and broken up, and
we found this one, uh particular stick that we actually cut out of the
woods and took it back with us. And that's that full twist stick board.
That's what we had grabbed. That's clear twisted. I ye, there's
no that wasn't when that did not happen naturally. No, And you know,
we're there's there's a lot to be said about tree structures and things like
that. I don't know enough about it to pick sides and say yay or
nay. All I could tell you is that, in particular, with the
context of the story, was pretty remarkable for me to get that kind of
physical evidence. There was no tracks. There was you know, there was
places where it was probably you know, stuffed up, but there was no
tracks. You couldn't know. It was like it was like uh, walks,
moss taking off of the rock, slide, you know, foot slide
on the rock loss, nothing you could catch stuff that kept us excited.
You know, oh yeah, look at this over here. You know what
the heck gets up there? You know you can see fresh tracks ripping the
moss off the rock. You know, it's sort of like, you know,
I wanted to watch your deer walk through the woods and say the same
thing. So when we got to that, that was I just took out
the this I have a little survival, which that was pretty cool. Cut
that bad boy it out and that's why I have it today. Yeah,
that that was a very unique you know, things like tree twists breaks,
things like that. There's there's a lot of reasons. And I can show
you hundreds hundreds of birch trees that are bent over and nodded. Now they've
been that way for two years. How do you get that way? There
was a thirty inch snow storm, three feet of snow. We had two
inches three inches of rain. H it froze those trees were they just bent
right over and they crew that way till spring. Where come springtime, all
those branches that were bent over are like this giant dreadlock. They're just woven
into each other. So they literally have pulled and holding themselves down. Uh,
just just because of that sheer weight. It's literally bent the trees and
they're growing and they're going on three years now almost. And and some of
the people that have this issue with with birch in particular, or it's prevag
just because it's it's soft or something. Yeah, stretches for sunlight. Blah
blah blah. There's a whole other naturalist story I can go into. But
it bends over these branches, get all mounted up, and next thing you
know, you've got this drove five acres big of all these weird bent trees.
And it's like, twenty years from now, what is that going to
look like? You know that's going to be incredible. So you get some
weird stuff. So that's what that's. Uh, that was one of the
pretty remarkable ones because it included my wife as well. I wanted to ask
you. In your original email you mentioned a possible juvenile encounter where you casted
some tracks. Could you talk about that a bit? Yeah, I believe
I gave you a shot of that as well. That's the one with the
ruler. I don't know which ones I sent you. The juvenile that's that's
another good story. Why don't you tell that was a great story? Actually?
Yeah, it was a labor day weekend, what was it d eighteen
twenty and the back of that day it was twenty two, twenty two,
Labor Day weekend four and all it did was rain. We had rain for
like four days five days, and we just said, come on, let's
let's take a ride. We were gonna go fishing. So we went to
a couple of spots and for some reason we didn't we didn't stop there.
Somebody was there or whatever. So we said, you know what, we're
already halfway there. Let's go over to a place that we go and we
research all the time. That's where I had a class A at where I
had a visual at it. So we turned around and we said, yea,
all right, So we drove over there. This is in Savoy State
fronts up in western mass so we stayed for us. We ended up driving
over there and it was raining. We drive into the woods, we can
get up and parked the car and we we get out. We're going across
the stream and we start going up around the first curve and we can start
hearing. It sounded like like little knocks or tapping happened, and uh so
we just kind of looked at each other and we said all right. But
we were we were saying, okay, maybe it was the rain, maybe
it was this, maybe it was that. So we went up a little
further, got up to about the next curve, and then we heard things
getting tossed at us now and we're saying, okay, now, wait a
minute. You know, the rain's not going to be tossing nothing at us.
So we just kind of looked at each other and we're trying to we're
trying to videotape this at the same time, and it's raining, and there's
if you've ever video taped off your phone in the rain, you know what
you know, So we could tell you they were knocks and naps and this
and that, but it sounded like rain now, so you know, we
had to scrap that whole thing. But we kept going and we were headed
up to the to the next curve, and next thing you know, the
knocks got a little bit got a little bit more, and things were getting
thrown closer at us, and there was a wolf and then there was a
wolf. So we we we says, all right, we got let's go
back here. We're gonna we're going to think about this for a second.
Back to the truck. So we went all the way back to the truck.
So we get back there and we're sitting there and we're trying to discuss
this, discuss it with each other and say, okay, what just happened.
You know. We said, all right, he says, let's go
back. We'll go back again, and I kept telling him there's a mud
puddle at the top, so if there's anything, we'll hit the mud puddle.
So we get walking back out there again. We get up to the
second curve and next thing, you know, the same thing happens. We
start getting things tossed at us. Then we hear a couple of more wolves
out. Then we said, okay, we're getting out of here. So
we leave, getting the truck. We take off and we we go to
this diner over in Comington. We're sitting there having having some neat We're talking
about it. We're saying, oh man, we gotta go back. I
said, I gotta get to the top, I says. I says,
if anything's there, that's where I had my visual, you know, and
I had it in the rain. So we says all right, So we
talked ourselves into a lot of courage to go back for a third time.
So we drive all the way back, park the car, we get out
and we take off and we just we're just walking now. We're saying,
no matter what, we just keep going. So nothing happened. Nothing happened
all the way up. We get all the way to the top, and
that's we come around. Tim comes around behind me and all and he's looking
at the mud puddle and there they are. There's two footprints right there,
and they were fresh footprints. This is a puddle that's about four and a
half feet long, three feet four feet wide, full of water. Puddle
full of water rain in four days now and right where these training as we
were doing it, right where the footprints are. If you've ever stepped in
the mud and you moved your foot, it's moist, but there's no water
in it. It was fairly dry. So they we were we must have
spooked them out of there, that's what we believe. But it was raining.
So we turned around and we said, well, we said we got
to preserve these. So he grabbed some birch bark and we covered them with
birch bark. Birch, you know, kept it off. Maybe you know,
it's the best thing. You use what you got. Yeah, so
we a tripod over it so an animal wouldn't walk through it. But you
know, so then we took off and we said we'll come back in the
morning. So we got out. We were in the woods by six o'clock.
We said, maybe if they're juveniles, maybe they're they'll sleepily and we
can get up there and get this thing. So we get all our stuff,
we take off. We get up there, and we had no problem.
We were quiet to boogie. We just got as fast as we could
get up there. So we take all of the birch bark off and the
prints are still there. Oh, They're unbelievable. Just a tad bit of
water had seep back into the hills. So we turned around. I'm mixing
up the plaster Paris and we put it in there. We get it all,
We get it all put out, letting it harden. And I said,
come on, we'll take a walk over to where I had my class
A, which is maybe fifty sixty yards from where we were. Yeahow,
So we walked into. Yeah, there was a dozen people to God as
well, well most of it. We walked in and I stood on the
exact same rock that I saw my big foot at and we're standing and it
is dead quiet, and it's been about about ten minutes now. We were
just talking real soft between us, and then all of a sudden, about
eighty yards away out in front of us, the herd, a solid would
knock Louisville slogan. It was one and done and seconds later not the love
test. We had been here later there had to be four or four such
different things stood up in front of us and just started moving. No noise,
no grunts, no browls. They just stood up and started moving.
Yeah, there was no vocal, no vobilizing, but you could there was.
They got up and they moved. You could feel that, you know,
you could hear the rustling under the trees. We're in this area here.
Uh, there was a lot of uh, a lot of like maple
trees and green stripe maple. So there's a lot of shrub trees. So
you really can't see it thick so you can't see off into the woods.
It's it's thick woods, and especially in June. Nothing we are out,
but uh, you could hear it, You could certainly hear it. And
it was multiple directions, multiple things were moving. So and with this is
just moment. You know. The day after we had just been chased out
of the woods twice, you know, the third time was the charm.
We went up to the top we got you know, we were able to
put the the birch bark on the tracks. We came back the second day
we were able to cast it. We're sitting there at his same location.
I didn't make that day. I was fishing. I was I was guiding
a fishing trip that day, so I didn't have that. I wasn't there
to share that classics experience. But we went back the following day. No,
we uh we we let's go back to the juvenile track. All right,
we're we're we're standing on the rock. We heard that would not right.
Three or four things stood up in front of us and just started moving
moving. Wow. And Tim goes, let's get out of here. He
says, let's grab our stuff and go. He says it could be bears.
And I was like, well wait a minute. I said, I
want to see. I said, maybe there's something there. It was the
reverse of this the New York story. He wanted to, you know,
because I had an experience there. And I was like, oh, come
on, I'm thinking Sowwich cougs. You don't want to mess around. But
we turned around and we took off. We went over and we I dug
the out the asked out of the little mud that suck, wrapped them up
and plastic put them in my backpack and down the mountain we went. And
now we have a couple of cats for it. But that was an experience
that was was that was crazy because we got we got played with the first
time. The second time in they got a little agitated and they booted us
out, meaning the rocks came down, the jubil wolfs became more aggressive.
And the thing when we finally got in there tapping, when we finally got
in there to do that, we must have took them off by surprise.
They probably never thought we were going to come back right we did, and
that I think that's how we got them. They were probably sleeping up in
this undercover of thick brush and when they got that wood knock boom, Yeah,
that they did whatever was got up and started leaving. What what was
crazy is I was I was thinking about letting out of Howl, and I
was glad I didn't because that would knock was it was crystal clear. There
was no events or buts about it. You're in the middle of the woods.
There's nothing else out there that's going to do that, and all and
after you heard it, they just it just got up and started. It
was crazy. So it wasn't far. They were within within one hundred yards,
well within one hundred yards probably fifty away, but the undergrowth is stick
so you can't run see, you know, there was you couldn't see anything
really, yeah, you couldn't see anything. And it was uh, there
wasn't like brush moving or anything like that. It was just like it's low
rain and four days everything was wet. Everything was quiet, you know.
So yeah, I mean you couldn't even hear them walking, yeah, you
know, because that's how quiet it was. Everything was so in this mountain
in particular, this area has a history of bigfoot. And that's where I
saw my class A. Couldn't have been forty five yards away from from where
that from where that incident happened. Yeah, that's how that's That was the
three two thousands, sixteen on that one and I was with them, and
I was with fifteen people when that happened. Two of us saw it.
Other people had multiple they heard whistles, they heard knocks, but they were
multiple people that had things happen. But two of us saw that. Yeah,
that's the thing that was in the exact same place that we got these
juvenile of ones from. Yeah, so that's how we got the juvenile ones.
That was during labor day. I want you to I want you to
talk about your sighting, but real fast, I wanted to ask you guys
this. Do you think they're self aware whenever it comes to their tracks?
Do you think they try to hide their tracks? You know, I've often
wondered that myself, because a lot of times you can find one, you
may find two. But I don't know, I think it just it is
what it is. You happen to get lucky. Yeah, you know,
I don't want to go into that wou thing where they go into another thing.
But you know the orbs, you know sometimes people association. Yeah they
see them in the winter time, but they only got two tracks. I'll
come you know what happened to it? And we're we're the same, you
know, we've we've had a number of times where we can go and cast
and I've got you know, half a dozen casts in front of me.
Uh, but I've never had a trackway, no, really good. I've
had you know, half a dozen which was the best that we had was
a half a dozen potential tracks, and and that was the extent the northeast
top. But you know you're gonna maybe get a trackway along a riverbed maybe
or through a farm if you're lucky, and if that's if the farmer even
tells you about it, right, you know, you know, you soft
substrate stuff like that. And we've never got to gravel because everything is hard
on here. But not that, not that we don't have trackways, because
but to have really good ones you get on the tine. For us,
we've got track We've got tracks here with deohits you know that's two three inches
deep right there, you know, yeah, I mean the one that I've
got, the one that I saw was seventh. The footprint was seventeen and
a half by nine and a half by four inches. Yep. I mean
that's a big print. That's that's a big print. Yeah, really,
that's a big print. But we you know, we went back that was
it the following day and took those casts. And so we walked up and
mind you this this is you know, the juvenile one we were we shared
both of us this one here. I wasn't there. I was fishing on
this particular story. So I wasn't here. So we went back the following
day. Now, the following day, we go up and he's bringing me
into the area where they see it, and we've got our cameras on and
we're doing all of our thing. We got a recorder going, we got
everything. We you know, we're trying to do our due diligence and we're
walking around. It's like, dude, I was right here and it was
just right over there. And so he's got we got the range finder and
he's just go over there. I'll tell you when to stop. So we
did the whole thing of you know, measuring and the tape measure and the
whole deal, and it turned out to be I was forty yards away from
him. So he's sitting there with the range finder saying, okay, stop
and we turned out to be forty yards. And then I put my hand
up, sad, how high? And you said, keep going, keep
going, And I had to take my hat, put it on a stick
and go. And it went to about nine feet yep, nine feet.
So with the cast that he has and you know, almost four was deep
in the grounds, as with the width of that thing was as wide as
a piece of plot you know, another day it was raining, so the
ground was soft. It was a pine soft humans kind of top soil called
duff. So you know, an eight hundred pound one thousand pounds or nine
hundred pound creature would certainly put in a four inch track. And you know,
we've got the initial the landing, so it's a heel strike toe push
off, and then i'm a following step which was seven feet away away.
You actually see where it landed on the ball, and it's got the push
off. You know, there were toe marks on the roof, but they
didn't come out because they were on the roof. But you've got the push
off and we cast it both. Even though you couldn't tell it was a
foot, you could see the depression was the same weight that happened seven feet
away that made this. So it's basically you know, you're running on your
toe at that point on the balls to your feet on the front half and
it was a push off, so it was a heel step then a push
off and it landed on the foot. So yeah, something the same weight
made those steps. And how ironic that the day before he just saw a
nine foot bigfoot, so you know, and two people saw it, and
there was a dozen or so they had lesser I say lesser meaning they had
books, had not whistle things like that all during this experience. They just
never had the opportunity to see it. Now, this experience was also kind
of a GoPro And of course Bigfoot wasn't on the on the video because the
guy standing there had a tree right in the middle. And so what you
see is Eric and another guy almost simultaneously forty fifty yards away from each other.
They're not if you're watching a video, they're not looking at each other.
There. You're in the woods. You're walking to where you're watching,
where your feet are going. We were on two different angles. I couldn't
see him. I mean I was too far to the left and he was
too far to my right. Up behind it. Yeah, probably sixty yards
apart. And all of a sudden, you know, you can see Eric
in an orange raypo It's just he's kind of like this, and then he's
like that, and and that was it. That was it. So yeah,
I'll of you explained that. Yuh, Well, what else did you
want to know? Well, I just wanted to hear about the side in
itself, Like all these people there. I assume it was on an actual
big foot outing. Yes, it was. It was on a big foot
out. Why were you there and how did it all go down? Well,
we were there because it's an act. It's always been an active place
and one of the gentlemen that work was with us had an experience there back
when he was twenty twenty one when he was a ranger, and the history
of the area hunters, it goes back to there's always been a eighteen hundreds.
That was one of the restons. That was one of the reasons why
we went there. It actually turned out to be a last resort because we
were doing an expedition. But it was the first place we went was raining
too hard. I mean it was raining, and then it kind of slowed
down, so he said, well, let's go try one more place.
So we did, and there was enough room for everybody to pull off the
road and park. So that's how we got in there. And then we
had walked in and we had walked up to this balanced rock. There's two
guys that always liked the lag behind because they liked to watch the group,
to see if the group is being watched, and there was a gentleman and
his son were up in front who had a grow pro, and there was
ten of us in the middle somewhere like that. We're walking along and we
got up to balance rock and all of a sudden, right where the mud
puddle is, we stopped and the two gentlemen that were behind us came up
and says, hey, we just got whistles back here. Couldn't have been
a couple of seconds later the the guy up in the front sent his kid
back and they said, hey, hey, we've got knocks. So now
we've got whistles behind us, knock in front of us. And we walked
into the woods. So we kind of walked in. Fifteen people walked in
and kind of they kind of spread out. So we're on a forty five
were we went in about twenty thirty yards and I was standing on that rock
and it was still it was still raining. There's still you know, the
rain was coming off the leaves and everything else, and everything was still quiet.
But the guy was in there and he was he was had to go
pro and he was videotaping everything, and he kind of walked off to my
after he was standing with me. He kind of walked off to the left,
and I'm standing there and I and I'm the hunter. So I says,
jeez, if there was something out there, how am I going to
see it? I said, well, I'm going to squat. I'm going
to bend over and see if I can see any legs or any movement.
And I'm in an orange rain jacket. Everybody else is in dark green or
blue. So I stuck out and so I kind of bent down. I
squatted him, and I said, geez, I said, what is that?
I said, what is it? What's that doing there? It's black,
It's big black thing. So I kind of I kind of stood up,
and I'm looking at it and I and I tilted myself like I was
trying to peek around the tree, and so this thing bent over and it
was doing it midicked me and I went what. So then I stood up
and went it stood up. That's when I realized it was a big There
were to be a big foot. What else was going to do that?
So I turned around and I just started running towards it, and at the
same time, on pointing, the gentleman that that was to my right saw
it. At the same time he saw the legs I saw from the waist
uff and there was a tree laying down and that's why he only saw the
legs. I was on the other side, higher up, and I could
see the upper half. But we ran into the into this go pro frame
at the same time, two different angles. It was crazy, and and
then we ran through it and we were like, after we got there,
we went, what did we just do? You know? You know,
why did we even run up there? It was crazy. But everybody else
came in and and they're looking around, and we're looking for things, you
know, we couldn't see anything. The two gentlemen that were behind us came
down the road, which in the direction that this thing ran out, and
they never saw. And they couldn't have been fifty sixty yards away, and
it fet the same road. Yeah, nine feet tall, four feet wide
at least, and they never saw. It was crazy. And we got
two prints out of that the following day. The following day, we showed
up. Yeah, this is where I showed up. Yeah, I just
attend. You got to come with me. I said, you got to
come in there. So we turned around and we go in and I take
them right to the spot and I says this is where. This is where
I was. This is where it was. He went around the tree and
goes, oh, man, look at this, just as clear as a
bell. There was a foot track. It was right there. There was
no missing Yeah. So we're looking at it, and well, we called
our buddy and we said, hey, he's on his way to a Red
Sox game. He's going down the highway and we said you got to come
out here because you know he had casting materials. And he says no.
He says uh. He says, are you kidding me? And I says,
dude, you got to come out here. I'm telling you, it's
right there. He goes, are you sure? He says, I'm on
my way to a game. I says, I'm telling you it's here.
I'll pay for your gas. Just turn around. There was another time the
tracks got the pace. Yeah, So he came out. So we met
him out at the dirt road. And when we were we get in the
truck and we're driving in. We had to go into town to buy Class
class so we could cast, so we waited for him to show up.
So as we drove in, well, Tim, I'm in the front.
Tim is in behind me on the passenger side, and that's we're driving in
up on the hill. This this this yell, roar New York. It
came out of nowhere. And I mean he was mad. It was definitely
a warning. It was mad. It was like insanely it was just another
insane scream yell. It was carrying a hell out of here. Or they
were learning them that we were coming back. Yeah, you know, and
here we are going back. So we drive in and we get out there
and there, and we come around the corner. We took we I think
we put something over that one too, and we took that off. We
did, and we turned around and there's the print and the guy goes,
oh, man, look at this. Yep. So he had dental stone,
and dental stone is fantastic. I mean, the stuff it hardens.
You really don't have to worry about it break. You know, dentists you
use it for your teeth. Good stuff. So we did that up,
poured it in and we measured it out. It was seventeen and a half
inches long, nine and a half inches wide by four inches deep. It
was crazy. And seven feet away was the second step. But that's where
the ball and the toe were and you could see where the toe hit the
root and literally took the took the bark off through skimmed it. But you
can't you know, you can't. I couldn't cast. Yeah, you can't
cast that. It just doesn't show up. I tried, but you could
see it. It didn't cast. It was in the group, actually is.
But that's that's how I saw mine. I Teeter tottered with it forty
yards away. That validation, you know, of seeing something and then having
the track there. I mean, obviously we have no way of knowing that,
well did that individual leave that track, but putting those different paces together,
yeah, the context of the entire situation, I mean, you want
an amazing encounter. Yeah, and the witnesses it was, it was.
It was unbelievable. I I, for one, I was the biggest skeptic
going because I always tore it apart. You know, well, it could
be this, it could be that, you know, mother nature does this.
But when it stood there and it Teeter tottered with me, Yeah,
that changed my whole whole outlook on everything, even even after New York,
seeing it changes everything. Yeah, you're definitely a believer after that. Yep,
you can't on you can't have an experience and once you once you cross
the line and you say, oh boy, we're done. You know.
We we do the library shows, we do different different events and stuff,
and you know, people think, oh, yeah, it's that bigfoot.
Guys are nuts. So, Tim, have you had a sighting? Yeah?
Mine was. I have had two. Uh. One I was with
my wife and the the other one I was in October Mountain with another group
on a different expedition, and that was the Pacing Bigfoot. That was the
Pacing Bigfoot. So that was a unique one, more so because it was
in the fleer. But going with the context of the story and the cast
that we've got, you know, we believe that to be a big foot
as well with the odor the smell. Well we have in that flear back
that night and we plugged it in to the laptop and everybody in a couple
of seconds of recording. It was only a few seconds, but you literally
could watch it walk. You could see it walk to the left and you
could see the arm did the arm movement. You could see that. But
it was two pixelated and then when the guy went to play it back the
second time, it was just a red blob. It was two p's just
the one shot. They say it was anything, but you know, to
a dozen guys that were sitting there, right, so you know exactly what
we were looking at. You know, we saw everybody there saw it.
They know what they will watch, they get off the log, the whole
deal. So so we saw one there and then my wife and I were
we do what we call a squatch ride. And you know, we're out
here in the country. There's not a whole bunch to do. So we
get in the car, go get a coffee, and we'll go off and
we'll go driving around the back roads and we call it a squatch. Right,
so we're going along. We go to this area called Cobble mounta outon
reservoir, which is our backyard. You know, I'm a ranger. We
have thirteen hundred acre property we manage which abuts Cobble Mount, which is probably
you know, I don't know, six or seven thousand, which goes into
another, you know, the state forest. And there's unteen thousand acres back
there. So it's just woods, you know, a random dotted road or
you know, a farm or something here or there. But there's nothing back
there, and it's had and it has a rich history. So we go,
we go on our squats ride and we get down to the lake and
and it's in June, uh, campus and there was camps. It was
July actually, uh. And we're this is in the afternoon, and there's
this giant white thing across the lake. And it was too big to be
anything other, you know, it wasn't It wasn't like a sign on the
tree there. We go through here every other night at two, three times
a week anyway, all right, so we know what's out there, we
know what's around the lake. There's no nothing. It's shoreline, it's natural,
it's wooded and shoreline. In some places it's rocky. This happened to
be a rocky area and what we believe. We stopped the car. We
were watching this. I say, hey, Ken, look at this thing.
It's this white thing out there, you know with that was maybe you
know, maybe a sample crew or something taking water samples out of the reservoir.
It was that big. But you know that distance, I don't know
how far away is maybe half mile across the lake. But but you could
see this white blob definitely stood out in a summer landscape, which was water,
shoreline and green. That was it. It was mountains and this giant
white thing stood out and then all of a sudden it moved and it went
down to Look what it looked like is it went down to the water,
stood up, and then headed back to the woods. So it was it
was like it was probably standing there. Maybe we saw our car. It
was checking us out, potentially, because it was just whatever. It was
just kind of facing one direction, bend down for probably I don't know,
fifteen twenty seconds, got back up, turned around and walked into the woods,
and it was gone. And now that was the extent of the you
know that, so I'm going to I think that was I can't think of
anything else it would be. Even if it was a moose. You know,
a moose would have had to turn broadside and you would have seen a
broadside moose. This didn't turn broadside. This was just huge, big,
It was a big white thing, and it just kind of you could see
it kind of just this same thing just walk walk away. That was it.
So, you know, I was thinking, well, maybe it was
a deer or a beer, but you know, they're not going to be
that cognitive to make themselves look slim and turn around. They're going to go
down the lake, take a drink, turn around, and that's going to
require them going broadside to my position to go and do a one eighty to
head back into the woods right. And there was no moose, there was
no deer, there was no bear, there was nothing. It turned around
and walked into the woods. And my wife got to see and she goes,
holy crap. So she got to see something that we've been chasing around
for years and she can't explain that in the way and now, so you
know, it was a far away it was a you know, it was
a different kind of experience. But you know, I live here at a
lake. I can see across the lake from where well now it's dark,
but you know I have a clear shot across the lake and I could tell
you, I could tell you when people are walking across the lake. This
thing was a big white thing across the lake, maybe a half mile away,
and it was just too big to be to be anything else, to
be honest. And we have a history in western mass of a number of
white bigfoot be it at the Quabbin at the Mount Toime Reservation area up in
the Vermont. You know, there's so there's a history of of either multiple
bigfoot that are white or gray in different areas, which is very possible.
You know, as the age, they probably turn you know, grayish or
white like like any other or some of the other animals that you do it,
So it's possible. I was going to ask what you think about the
white coloration. Do you think that's just a natural coloration or an age thing.
I'm going to go with an age thing potentially, because I'm just taking
it out of the natural realm. You know, most of the things,
unless they are an albino, there's nothing. It's a pigment thing. You've
got albino deer. Yeah, so say you can't have an albino bigfoot.
Yep, it could be an albino bigfoot, but I'm more have to think
it's an old bigfoot. These things got to grow up. I have a
ten inch juvenile track in front of me, and I have an eighteen inch
track over here, So they have to grow up, you know. Oh
for sure, they're not. They're not born nine feet tall. No,
they're not. No. No, how about you man, have you had
an experience? Yeah? Yeah, I have I had over the course of
about a decade. I had I had a sighting in two thousand and two
and a possible I can encounter that same night, And then I had another
sighting a few years after that, one of what I would consider a juvenile
yep, and a few you know, glimpses of something. You know that
I can't confirm butt because you know, again because of the context and the
circumstances that I don't know what else it could have been yet, right,
I can tell you what it was, Yeah, exactly. That's good to
you. Yeah, the same things that happened to us happened to you.
Oh absolutely absolutely. I mean, you know, one of the most profound
things happened literally the night before I had my sighting. We were at a
location that I would end up researching over the years on a regular basis.
Once I had my sighting, I was pretty much hooked at that point,
and it was like, Okay, well I know that they're here because I
saw one here. So I just kind of focused all my research efforts there.
I had a research partner that lived in the area and everything. It
wasn't too far from where I lived, so it was a matter of convenience,
and I thought it was much better to go at it that way than
to try to just blindly go to different locations and hope for the best over
a weekend camp out. But we were in this location and we were hearing
things all around us, and it's kind of like this dead end in this
public hunting area, and we had the cars parked right there, and we
were surrounded by trees on all sides, and to our backs was a and
it was nighttime. It was pretty dark, but you know, there was
some moonlight and stuff, and we heard splashing in the creek behind us.
Now, this creek at that point in time, you know, depending on
the rain levels and all that, it might get a couple feet deep in
that area, but usually it's just a few inches deep. I had never
seen any fish in this creek. Yeah, yeah, So the splashing was
kind of interesting, so we started it just kept on happening, and at
some point, for whatever reason, somebody happened to look up and see a
rock fly overhead and then heard the splash in the creek behind us. So
we all started looking up and we're seeing these rocks come out of the tree
line and go over our heads. And into the creek behind us. Wow.
Well at this point, you know, I did not gonna have a
sighting the next night. And I, you know, much like others,
like yourselves, very skeptical, you know, like, Okay, what's going
on? What can this be? You know, there's nothing out here.
Yeah, there's nothing out here that can throw rocks other than people. So
I know we're going out. And then I started thinking, well, how
are they throwing them through the trees in the dark without hitting the trees,
because I knew if I tried to throw a rock in the woods, I'm
just gonna hit trees. And I'm talking to my buddy and we're leaned up
against this car, up on the side of the car hood and this rock
about the size of a marble, hits the hood of the car and due
to the trajectory, bounces off the hood and hits me in the stomach and
lands back on the hood of the car. And I'm just looking down at
it, and I look over at him, and I'm looking at the woods,
and I don't hear anything in the woods. But now I know,
like this is this something's throwing rocks like this was for real, and that
just blew my mind. So at that point in time, I still wasn't
sure if Bigfoot was real, but I was certain that there was something out
there throwing rocks exactly. Yeah. I wanted to ask you, Tom,
because my listeners would hang me up by my heels if I didn't. You're
a ranger. Yeah, Do you get any flak for it? Is there
any sort of commands You've been told not to let anybody know that these things
are out there? What's the cover up going on? No? No,
are you kidding meat. Everybody knows I'm a ranger around here and I do
library events, we do other events, and I tell them I'm a ranger.
You know I had, and it goes along with telling you about the
bear reports. I've been a ranger for fifteen years. I've been in the
woods working every day for fifteen years, and I have bear you know,
they come into camp, so it's there. It's just one of those things.
Now I don't even today. I have a very clean camp, So
today the bear encounters are a lot less. When I had first started,
I was taken over for a guy that the bears used to come in all
the time, and so I'd have encounters four or five different bears. I
literally open up a dumpster and have a bear sleeping in a dumpster, you
know, taking pictures like that. So my scariest bear encounter was in Chesterfield,
Mass I was a ranger and I'm on a mountain bike. Actually I'm
going down a dirt road, and the dirt road transitions to stone to gravel
like and there was a sound difference. Now at the same time this transition
from dirt road to gravel happened, it looked to me as if there was
a trash bag that had blown off a table, a picnic table in the
woods. Looked like it had blown off the table. And the moment later,
it's standing in front of me, literally standing in front of me on
two legs, like, holy crap. And there was a bear in front
of me, and I could see by looking at it it was a teenager.
It was kind of long, lanky, skinny, and he was just
as freaked out as I was. And I literally I skidd it to a
stop, grabbed my bike, fronded up. Hey bear, get out of
the air. Bear, And I'm screaming at him and he's freaking out,
and we both go in two different directions and that was literally feet apart.
And I came back to the house. My wife is garden and she's doing
the flowers out front, and I said, came to the bear, come
by, And I actually beat the bear because he was I beat the bear.
I came back to see him crossing the road. He was actually crossing
into our yard and the bed she had seen the bear. So I actually
beat the bear back on my mouth bike. So it was pretty funny.
But that was the closest. And like I said, we've always they've always
ran, They've never stuck around. They don't argue, why don't want to
be around you? You know, they go. So I haven't had you
know, yeah, bears attack things like that. I've never experienced anything like
that. I have been very fortunate. And that's just that, it's so
the bears. Yeah, the whole bear thing is a you know, it
kind of brings you back to the New York thing. Why was that creature
out there or whatever it was yelling and screaming for ten to fifteen minutes,
literally ten fifteen minutes at the top of the Younges whatever the hell it is
doing screaming at us, you know, And and so it was. It
was hard to associate. Well, was it a bear? Well, you
know, every bear I've ever ran across just kind of puffed its mouth and
soft bluff, charged me a little bit and run like out, And that
was the extent of it. So it kind of became a little comfortable maybe
when I saw them. And you know, you still do the big yell,
and nine out of ten times you know they snowy, they don't,
You're gone. You know, if they win you, they're gone. And
same with the most of the other animals. I think the more experienced people
have with wildlife, the more impressive some of these possible bigfoot encounters are.
Because I run across a lot of people where I'll tell them a story.
For instance, you know eye shine. You know a lot of bigfooters see
eye shine, and people will you know, well, if all you saw
was eye shine, why why do you even think it was a big foot?
And I try to explain to them, deer, don't stand there and
watch you for thirty minutes. You know, animals typically hal ass nine out
of ten, they absolutely do. I appreciate you coming on here and sharing
some of your experiences with me. How can people reach you if they want
to reach the fabulous Vogel Brothers. There you go. Go to Thevogo Brothers
page on Facebook, the Logo Brothers. If you check us out there,
like us, say something nice, and then it's you know, wild Guide
one at yahoo dot com, Wild Guide to at yahoo dot com, but
it's the Volga Brothers. Sounds good, excellent. Thanks for having us, Sig