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When we talk about, you know, getting to Mars, how realistic do

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you think that is. There's a
book that just came out as review in

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the Wall Street Journal talking about all
of the various obstacles to human beings actually

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living on Mars. Like we we
live in a pretty propitious place. I

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mean, the world's pretty wonderful planet. Yeah and us Yeah exactly. So

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what are the biggest obstacles and what
do you think the timeline is in terms

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of having a robust presence on other
planets. Well, we're hoping to have

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the first humans on the Moon in
less than five years, Mars maybe a

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little longer than five years. I'd
be surprised if we don't have humans on

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Mars are within ten years? Wow? Yeah? And then we're going to

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aim to have a lot of humans
and both a city on Mars and a

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base on the Moon. How do
we mobilize that many resources there that quickly?

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That's a lot of resources necessary.
It's not like you can draw from

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the environment a lottery source. And
now I should say, in order to

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pass the firmly grateful to of being
a multiplanet species, that the other,

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the second planet, has to be
self sustaining, so that the ass a

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test being that if the resupply ships
from Earth stuff coming for any reason whatsoever,

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it could be mundane or more serious, will Mars die out or not?

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So Mars has to be completely self
sufficient in order to pass the firmly

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grateful stup that the particular gratefulture I'm
talking about is if something climbs has happened

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to one planet, is is humanity
gone or not? And so how long

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will it take for that to be
self sustaining? When you say, you

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know, in ten years people will
be on Mars like forty issues. So

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one of the things I think that
captures the imagination about what you're doing is

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that you're speaking in ambitious terms that
people have not spoken in the West for

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solidly half a CENTI. I mean, really, it's an amazing thing.

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Yes, I say it's so often
not going. I mean, you say

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this stuff because it's you all the
time. But the reality is that the

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last time people were talking about within
a decade we're going to have a man

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on the moon was JFK talking at
the beginning of the nineteen sixties. Yeah,

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it's been full on half a century
since anybody talked like this, and

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I think people find it shocking,
and I think maybe we should look at

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the other side of that to both
sides. One what makes you different?

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And two why do you think that
dream went away? Why do you think

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it was that for half a century
after we put a man on the Moon,

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we just kind of receded back into
into whatever the hell was else going

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on. Yeah, that's the long
story. But the the fallouf to the

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Shuttle to the Saturn fire was the
Space Shuttle space stalk could only go to

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low Earth orbit, but that there, and the aspiration was to make it

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reusable, but the they unfortunately did
not succeed in that in that goal.

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The Space Shuttle was so difficult to
refub that it ended up costing as much

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as a Saturn five. And then
the main, the primary structure of the

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Space Shuttle orbit system, a big
orange tank was it's actually a primary airframe

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because it takes the load from the
the orbit of the sort of airplane looking

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thing, and this the side boosters, so you lose that every time the

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side boosters landing the ocean, and
and their solid rocket boosters, so that

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you know, they have to get
shipped back to the factory to get solid

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propellant loaded in cut a long story
short, the cost per flight of the

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Shuttle ended up being roughly the same
as as a Saturn five expendable. So,

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but the Shuttle had about a quarter
of the paler to orbit and could

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not reach the Moon. So it
you know, so nobilized ideas at the

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start, but ultimately it was it
was not a good design. So and

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then the Shuttle retired obviously, and
then we had nothing. That curve is

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that is not a good curve going
from the Moon to lower th orbit to

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nothing. That does not extrapolate to
being a multiplanet species. So that's why

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I started SpaceX is to try to
reverse that trend and get us back on

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to doing exciting things in space again, you know, things that make people

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excited to get up in the morning
and say, yes, the humanity is

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going to do some amazing thing in
space. We're experiencing a lot of global

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instability as we plunge into primary season, like no shipping in the Red Sea,

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eight ninety eight ninety eight today to
get started. One of the things that

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that's so impressed about SpaceX is not
just the aspiration, but the fact that

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it's a successful business and that you
realized very early on that it's not enough

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to have the aspiration. I mean
it was a government to put a person

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on the mood that that's not the
same thing as actually being able to build.

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You said, self sustaining with regard
to life on Mars, but a

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self sustaining business that actually has the
capacity and a profit driven model to do

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something like that to project Yeah.
I mean to be clear, at the

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start of SpaceX, I gave us
a less than ten per cent chance of

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success. I thought we'd probably die. But you know, I think if

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something is important enough, it's worth
doing even if you think it's going to

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fail. And we almost did fail. The first three launches of our small

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rocket failed. Only the fourth one
launch succeeded and if we if that fourth

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one had failed, we would be
dead. So it's close at this point,

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you know, K not gonna word. SpaceX is quite prosperous. SpaceX

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dead about eighty percent of all paler
to orbit last year of Earth, China

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did about twelve percent and the rest
of the world at eight percent. So

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in this year, if things go
well, SpaceX will do ninety percent of

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all paler to Earth and then as
Starship really takes off, SpaceX will be

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doing at least based on what other
companies are currently doing, which is,

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you know, around three four hundred
tons to orbit. SpaceX ultimately will be

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doing several hundred thousand tons to orbit, maybe a million tons to orbit.

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It's amazing. And what you mentioned
there that it is a sort of skin

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of the teeth thing, I mean
that's been true in a lot of companies

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that you've worked with. I mean
that was true in Tesla also, that

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it was a real skin of the
tee thing. And so maybe you can

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talk a little bit about what does
that feel like. I mean, as

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a CEO in your person who is
a professional, you must do you enjoy

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the risk? Do you enjoy that
stressful? Well? I don't see grisk

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for risks. Say, Tesla had
many close calls with death. The natural

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state of a car company in America
is dead. I mean the only two

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car companies that have not gone bankrupt
are Ford and Tesla. Do you have

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a cry story bankrupt in two thousand
and nine. There have been hundreds of

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car bankruptcies before. So it's one
of those things where like I said that

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the natural state of a car company
is dead, So you have to keep

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pulling rabbits out of a hat to
not be dead. Do you think that

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your personality is suited to that and
that's why you're successful at this? That

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you think that's unique to the companies
you pick, that that you're pulling rabbits

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out of hats? Are isn't that
everything pulled so many rabbits out of hat

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It's like an arcer rabbits here there. I mean, I'm good at solving

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technology problems, so and rockets and
cars both technology problems. Have a very

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strong team that work with me,
and uh yeah, so far, so good.