1 00:00:15,359 --> 00:00:21,320 What is Cracklac and fellow Thermino bear A efforts. I am granted he's joined 2 00:00:21,359 --> 00:00:25,079 as always by my co host Dampha Valley. And if you've noticed anything strange 3 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,839 states because I'm talking first, and I should have not said joined by my 4 00:00:28,839 --> 00:00:31,320 co host Dampha Valley, so you could think I was doing a solo pod, 5 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,039 which would be even weirder. We're doing weird things today. Were trying 6 00:00:34,039 --> 00:00:38,520 to keep it loose because we have three eliminated teams to discuss, which we 7 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,840 haven't yet. We haven't talked about what order we're gonna do that in. 8 00:00:42,359 --> 00:00:45,039 We have four teams left to discuss. We'll do that briefly. There's a 9 00:00:45,079 --> 00:00:49,159 couple series to go, but I'm gonna get to it quickly because I have 10 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,679 so much respect for him and I want to know and I never get to 11 00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:58,119 ask Dan, how you doing. I am a little bit depressed after how 12 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,399 like the next season ended, but that wasn't expected. A little bit manic 13 00:01:02,439 --> 00:01:07,599 too, because that thunder, the thunder the Timberwolves Nugget series was just ended 14 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,760 up being an acid trip, and that Game seven, specifically just the implications 15 00:01:11,799 --> 00:01:15,840 that it might have on the Nuggets future then also are champion this year just 16 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,480 incredible and then thunder MAVs. I thought some of the talking points after that 17 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,760 were hysterical, but I am is to say on this Monday, I have 18 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,519 energy. I am highly caffeinated. I continue to caffeinate too, So we're 19 00:01:26,519 --> 00:01:30,480 gonna keep this going. And I'm also just like in awe that I got 20 00:01:30,519 --> 00:01:33,359 to see your I think that's the first time you've definitely done the podcast intro 21 00:01:33,519 --> 00:01:37,280 right, oh for sure. And we discussed right beforehand that that's how it 22 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,280 was gonna go, and I did not want to practice or do any extra 23 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,040 reps. We'll let the people decide how it went. I suspect they'll want 24 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,040 the original, the original recipe back at some point. You have a plaint 25 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,640 about my yelling. I've been yelling for I tried to go a loud. 26 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,519 I basically like, did an impression. I feel like, so if we 27 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,480 continue with this, I'll have to kind of find my own voice, you 28 00:01:57,519 --> 00:02:01,840 know, that's important. One thing before we get started, I'm concerned I 29 00:02:01,879 --> 00:02:07,000 don't have enough like Capital T takes on, like any of the series we're 30 00:02:07,039 --> 00:02:12,639 going to discuss, or the eliminated teams we're going to discuss because all these 31 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,800 series were awesome, and like the team that lost had moments that were phenomenal 32 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:22,439 generally speaking, and like, by some measures, I guess other than Denver 33 00:02:22,599 --> 00:02:25,080 overachieved or at least met the standard of achievement we expected. So it's like 34 00:02:25,719 --> 00:02:30,759 usually you want to go, oh, this is the reason this team lost, 35 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,400 or here's the glaring flaw or whatever, or like here's the transcendent thing 36 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,120 this other team did. It's kind of just like, man, all these 37 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,879 teams were good and like they played really hard, Like I just I want 38 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:45,840 to just I don't know, I want to avoid or try to today the 39 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:51,360 trap of saying, like here's what's wrong with the Knicks. Here's what's wrong 40 00:02:51,439 --> 00:02:53,479 with the Nuggets, Like here's what's wrong with the Thunder. No, they 41 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,240 didn't win their series, but and we can start. I'll let you pick 42 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,159 where you want to start with, which team, which series, which post 43 00:03:00,199 --> 00:03:02,800 mortem however we want to do this, but like, do you feel that 44 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,479 way too, where like, man, these were all good, and like 45 00:03:06,599 --> 00:03:09,159 there were moments where obviously the team that lost, we probably thought I was 46 00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:13,680 gonna win it, uh, and I was. I was one in three 47 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,639 over the place. Yeah, one and three I got one of the series 48 00:03:16,719 --> 00:03:20,039 right. It was tough. I mean, they were all close, they 49 00:03:20,039 --> 00:03:23,800 were all awesome. I don't have a question for you other than like, 50 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,199 where would you like to begin? I am with you in a sense that 51 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,039 this isn't There are definitely like things that the teams that lost, which I 52 00:03:30,039 --> 00:03:32,759 find more interesting, mostly because we'll do conference final stuff at the end that's 53 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,120 just going to be dated, and so we'll talk. We'll end up talking 54 00:03:36,199 --> 00:03:38,039 probably more about the Mavericks in the vein of when we're talking about the thunder 55 00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:42,840 Uh. But you're right, those all teams are really good, and I 56 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,560 think we could we should started with the Nuggets because I think what's I didn't 57 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,199 see a lot of this, but I saw and heard some of it in 58 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,000 the aftermat that there are people that were genuinely shocked they didn't win the series. 59 00:03:53,039 --> 00:03:57,199 And yeah, when you juxtapose it against they blew a twenty point lead 60 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,479 in the second half, I get it. But like, minnesot has been 61 00:04:00,479 --> 00:04:02,439 there all year. I was asked on a show I did just before this, 62 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,240 if this like signals a changing of the guard, And it's kind of 63 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:11,479 like there was a changing of the guard at the top of the West already 64 00:04:11,599 --> 00:04:15,199 and it included the Timberwolves this season, Like the Nuggets were there, but 65 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,879 they kind of rose to because they won the championship. We knew they were 66 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,279 relevant, but they won the title last year, like we moved away from 67 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:26,439 kind of this Warriors and who does Lebron play for our talk and it's thunder 68 00:04:26,879 --> 00:04:29,199 the Mavericks. We kind of thought were they were like in it and then 69 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,319 fading out, but now they're back in. I mean, who talk about 70 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:33,199 being wrong about the Mavericks not related to what we're talking about the moment, 71 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,800 but it's not a changing of the guard, Like the Timberwolves were right there, 72 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,000 and I think that Curry's your thoughts on that. But I also just 73 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,319 think the better team won this series. And the team that was built to 74 00:04:44,399 --> 00:04:47,319 be the Denver Nuggets is foil by the guy who also built the Denver Nuggets. 75 00:04:47,959 --> 00:04:50,759 They ended up being the Denver Nuggets his foil And that, to me, 76 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:55,639 more than anything, is what I take away from this series. Yeah, 77 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,000 I think the changing of the guard idea, I mean in some ways, 78 00:04:59,079 --> 00:05:01,079 yeah, like Anthony Edwards in a Conference finals, Like for everybody that 79 00:05:01,319 --> 00:05:04,720 you know it has been talking about facing the league next Jordan all this other 80 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:10,160 stuff like yeah, that tracks, I guess, but that presumes that Denver 81 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,120 is not going to be part of that elite you know, class of in 82 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,399 the West or like shortlist title contenders next year, which I don't think is 83 00:05:16,439 --> 00:05:21,120 the case. I think like this ties to Yeah, Minnesota earned it for 84 00:05:21,199 --> 00:05:25,519 sure, but like if this is a fourteen game series, we play seven 85 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,360 more, like this might just be seven to seven, Like I think, 86 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,560 I really like we saw it's it's hard to get past. You know, 87 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,319 Oh, Denver kind of lost it at the end because they did blow the 88 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:39,360 fifty eight to thirty eight lead and scored thirty two points I think basically in 89 00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:43,040 the second half. So it's easy to fall into the same thinking we did 90 00:05:43,079 --> 00:05:46,399 after games one and two where the Wolves jumped them. But then there were 91 00:05:46,439 --> 00:05:50,560 three three point you know, six games in between that where Denver was the 92 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:55,560 better team. So like I think, yeah, new teams have risen into 93 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,160 the contender class, Minnesota being one of them, which was there all year. 94 00:05:58,199 --> 00:06:00,519 Same with Okay, see, same with Dallas, I guess now, 95 00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:03,759 but Denver's not going anywhere. We can talk about what may change for the 96 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:10,160 Nuggets or like just what may get prohibitively expensive, but like, there's no 97 00:06:10,639 --> 00:06:15,560 scenario where Denver is not I don't know, one of the four five you 98 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,759 know best Odds twenty twenty five title winning teams next year when we go into 99 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:26,480 the season, Like, so it just I just I again, I'll get 100 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,279 back to what I said initially of like I can't kill Denver like they it 101 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,959 did look rough at the end when the Wolves were just on this run that 102 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,399 seemed so improbable, but like, I don't know, for half of that 103 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,319 series, basically Denver was the team that was dominating, and and it just 104 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,079 came out, you know, slightly less than half. I guess we should 105 00:06:44,079 --> 00:06:46,279 say, uh but but yeah, like and I kind of feel that way 106 00:06:46,319 --> 00:06:50,160 for different reasons, like the don't panic for Denver. I have the same 107 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:54,360 don't panic for New York and the same don't panic for Okace, but for 108 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,959 different reasons. We can get into there specifically, do you like, does 109 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,600 that track for you or is it more like, oh, the Wolves are 110 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:04,759 now a team that we should just regard as clearly a cut above Denver going 111 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,439 into next year, or it's just like, yeah, they're gonna fight it 112 00:07:08,439 --> 00:07:12,199 out again. I hope we get another series. There's yeah, I hope 113 00:07:12,199 --> 00:07:15,720 they. I think it's more likely that we would get this series in the 114 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:18,279 conference finals next year than that. This somehow signaled that, Okay, the 115 00:07:18,319 --> 00:07:21,279 West is no longer there's no longer a debate as to who the top of 116 00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:24,959 the West is. And by the way, there could just be other teams 117 00:07:24,959 --> 00:07:27,160 that enter that like them, they still have to We'll still have to go 118 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,560 through the Mavericks. They were built to beat the Nuggets, which is why 119 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,079 it's kind of fascinating to see, well, how do they match up against 120 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:36,040 the Mavericks like Dallas when we were clearly wrong about them, they might still 121 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,680 have other moves up their sleeve. Uh. And so like you know, 122 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,360 you can kind of say, like Phoenix is done if you think like they 123 00:07:43,439 --> 00:07:45,879 might win a bunch of games, but they're not a real threat. Ditto 124 00:07:45,959 --> 00:07:48,600 for the Warriors, maybe even the Lakers. But like the Kings still have 125 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:53,240 assets to play. The Pelicans have cars to play. Their thunder just floating 126 00:07:53,279 --> 00:07:56,800 around out here. So I don't it's not time for Denver to panic. 127 00:07:56,839 --> 00:08:00,759 With that being said, like this is a and I don't know how much 128 00:08:00,759 --> 00:08:03,879 of an indictment it is on how they went about their offseason, but they 129 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:09,399 clearly based on who was playing. By the end, you leaned too far 130 00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:11,920 into the I'm not going to call it the two timeline model, but it's 131 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,560 and I respected what they were trying to do in the sense of, we 132 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:18,920 want to hit on these guys because we're about to get mega expensive and if 133 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,240 we want to keep this core together, we need to hit on some cost 134 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,040 controlled players. But by the end of that series, it was Christian Brown. 135 00:08:26,079 --> 00:08:28,120 Okay, you hit on him, but we knew that last year. 136 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,159 Peyton Watson not playing this series basically, and you having to hit the Justin 137 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,919 Holliday button who played well for you. It's concerning, But to say that 138 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,320 they leaned too far into it, you have to acknowledge, well, what 139 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,919 was the alternative They didn't have money to spend. Do you think that they 140 00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:46,120 could have done better than Reggie Jackson with the miniml E Maybe, but who 141 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,360 was the most impactful miniml E signing this year? It was like you had 142 00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:52,559 guys on minimums hitting harder, like a Kelly Hubray junior who really wouldn't have 143 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,360 done much for this team anyway. And so there's that element to it. 144 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:01,240 The other one is though we can also now Jamal Curry's Jamal Curry, Jamal 145 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,600 Murray's calf wasn't right, and that created this variance in his performance that, 146 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,200 yeah, he was good enough for them to win Game seven. He hit 147 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,440 very big shots against the Lakers in the first round as well, and there's 148 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,440 always been variance to his performance, but it was more turbulent this year than 149 00:09:16,519 --> 00:09:20,080 most. So that's a I think a reasonable excuse. But when you look 150 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,679 at kind of the way in which they ended up losing, where it was 151 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,519 their offense that kind of failed them, and it was just I know, 152 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,159 it's just the Wolves, but like when you have a team that can disrupt 153 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,559 how you want to run Jokic and Murray together and then really just disrupt even 154 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,360 Jokic who can still have these great games. But how much credit do you 155 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,720 ascribe to the Wolves for you know, kind of like going after Michael not 156 00:09:41,759 --> 00:09:45,559 even going after like Michael Porter Junior has a hard series for him, single 157 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,600 digits in the final four games. I think he scored. He apologized after 158 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:50,720 the game to his team and felt like if he played better, they would 159 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,240 have won. I mean, he's right, but like it doesn't just fall 160 00:09:54,279 --> 00:09:56,360 out his shoulders. And so you could look at this as if Murray's healthier, 161 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,559 if Michael Porter Junior hit shots, and I know, what do you 162 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,360 have nine boards in game seven? But there was like two issues where just 163 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,840 Nasred comes in and like did he didn't even like have him on his radar, 164 00:10:07,919 --> 00:10:09,120 like come slying in from the corner for that put back dunk in game 165 00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:11,639 seven. There is issues with a bunch of people in this one. So 166 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,519 I think you can look at the Nuggets and say they might just be back 167 00:10:15,519 --> 00:10:18,440 here next year. They might be better than the Timberwolves. I just I'll 168 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,200 throw The thing I'll note though, is you have to get to a point 169 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,559 where you have more than six guys that you trust. Yeah, And I 170 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,039 don't know how they get there. They if look, Casep has a player 171 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,519 option, and if you with his cat hold, which is like twenty two 172 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,559 plus million right now, they're about ten million dollars into the Supertax had Tom 173 00:10:37,639 --> 00:10:41,840 Keith Smith of Spowtrack for coining that. I just I don't think he gets 174 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,919 twenty two million. But even if he just picks up his player option, 175 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,159 they're and maybe they extend him off that number. And that's how they save 176 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,679 some money in the short term, but they're in the supertax and I'm assuming 177 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,879 they'll pay it for at least one year. But how do you get better 178 00:10:56,639 --> 00:11:01,240 aside from internal development? And that might be a like you have Reggie Jackson. 179 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:03,919 I assume he'll pick up his player option. That's a little over five 180 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,639 million. Zeke Nausey's extension kicks in. That helps you from a salary matching 181 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:13,320 perspective, but oh hey, you can't aggregate salaries and so Zeke Nausey being 182 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,759 your best trade ship at eight point nine million on an extension that look, 183 00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:22,080 he gets three fully or is it four? Yeah, it's four guaranteed years. 184 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,840 Because he has that player option for twenty seven to twenty eight. There 185 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,559 aren't gonna be teams that just what. He didn't do anything for you this 186 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:31,840 year. So even if you were willing to attack attach, you're I think 187 00:11:31,879 --> 00:11:33,320 they can trade their twenty thirty one draft pick. Or even if you're willing 188 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,840 to attach, you can't even attach a player. And so that's what gets 189 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:43,720 super challenging. You have to believe that this core is it and you're gonna 190 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:48,279 get enough internal development from Peyton Watson on offense from Julian Strauther just I know 191 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,240 he got injured in the middle of the year and that kind of shook him 192 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,120 up. But are you gonna trust Jail and Pickett next year to handle some 193 00:11:52,159 --> 00:11:56,200 backup point guard minutes? Oh, by the way, you have the Aaron 194 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,440 Gordan at the five button still, but you kind of still lead a backup 195 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,279 big who isn't Andre Jordan's Ignaci At this point, I would argue, and 196 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,000 if you want to make a meaningful change, how what is who's getting traded? 197 00:12:07,159 --> 00:12:09,080 It's not gonna be Jokic. I don't think it's gonna be Murray. 198 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,639 I don't really think it can be Gordon. Now you're looking at Michael porter 199 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,000 junior trades. That still seems like an overreaction though to how this season ended. 200 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,440 Yeah, everything kind of does, right because normally, normally in this 201 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:26,080 situation, if this so hanging over, every piece of Nuggets analysis will do, 202 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,519 whether it's got to do with the series that was just completed or what 203 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,679 they need to do to improve themselves in the offseason, is colored by the 204 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,840 fact that they that were making those assessments based on how they looked against like 205 00:12:37,879 --> 00:12:41,759 maybe the best playoff defense we've seen in like fifteen years or like you know, 206 00:12:41,879 --> 00:12:46,639 I don't know what. You almost can't get to hyperbolic about how good 207 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,399 defensively Minnesota was just I mean obviously in this series, but all season just 208 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,080 far and away the best, like that second half of Gain seven specifically, 209 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,519 though I have and not just like oh they're athletic and young and big. 210 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,759 It's like, no, they really excelled at like let's make you'll get shoot 211 00:13:00,799 --> 00:13:03,919 ten threes, like that's what we want him to do, and we'll wear 212 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:05,919 him out because anytime he touches it inside the three point line, we send 213 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:09,879 two and so now he's tired. So when we leave him to shoot those 214 00:13:09,919 --> 00:13:13,759 threes, he's exhausted. That's hard. Like it wasn't just a physical advantage, 215 00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:20,240 like this was a ton of talent deployed really intelligently. So like, 216 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:22,519 yeah, it would be great if Michael Porter Junior could like do a little 217 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,360 more with the ball so that he's not just someone that you close out to 218 00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:28,799 and as long as he doesn't get a three up like success for the defense, 219 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,440 sure that'd be great. Like if some of the young guys were a 220 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:37,000 little readier, like Peyton Watson basically not playing. I gotta believe almost any 221 00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:41,360 other opponent other than Minnesota he would have played like you just you couldn't put 222 00:13:41,399 --> 00:13:43,639 him out there against the defense that good. I think, so all those 223 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:50,480 things are just of a part of a larger package where it's like, you 224 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,039 gotta get KCP back, and you got to get a little more from Christian 225 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,080 Brown and a little more from Watson, and maybe one of the like the 226 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:01,159 other you know, guys from the batch of young players that kind of count 227 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,919 as a second timeline, but are also kind of like if KCP leaves insurance, 228 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,000 like Straw the Pickett, Hunter, Tyson, like all these guys, 229 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:13,080 maybe one of them can give you fifteen minutes or ten minutes in a playoff 230 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,960 game by next year. And so if you're Denver, it's just like, 231 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,639 sometimes it's impossible to be like far and away the title favorite, and the 232 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:24,759 best you can ever expect to do is to like be in that mix, 233 00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:28,279 which Denver very much is, and with any improvement at all, is at 234 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,559 the top of that mix next year. So it's just like it's really hard 235 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:37,840 to evaluate kind of soberly, just because that Minnesota defense was so good and 236 00:14:37,879 --> 00:14:41,720 you can't like make and yeah, maybe it'll be there next year. Maybe 237 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,840 it will be as good, but maybe not. And like if it's ninety 238 00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:48,799 eight percent as good, maybe Denver wins the next time they play at playoffs. 239 00:14:48,799 --> 00:14:52,519 As Oh what if Jane McDaniels is ninety eight percent better on offense? 240 00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:56,120 You've seen it. I mean it could go either way, Like we could 241 00:14:56,159 --> 00:14:58,080 be back here next year and Minnesota has taken a step forward and Denver is 242 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,720 the same or slightly. That's a six game series or a five game series 243 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:07,080 or something. But yeah, like the it feels to me just because I 244 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,320 just mentioned Strawther and Pickett and all those guys, like they feel like they 245 00:15:11,399 --> 00:15:16,399 weren't supposed to help this year, but they were supposed to be hypothetically ready. 246 00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:20,399 If you're planning this far out for the possibility of losing Caldwell Pope, 247 00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:24,639 I think, or for Reggie Jackson declining his option and leaving and suddenly like 248 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,399 you just need that like backup point guard spot to be filled by someone cheap. 249 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:31,879 And I was gonna ask you, I agree with what you just said, 250 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,840 and I the Peyton Watson thing. If you're looking for something to find 251 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,679 unsettling him, not you could say, Okay, well it's only against the 252 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,240 Timberwolves, and it's well, guess what. Like that is probably one of 253 00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:43,559 the if we're looking ahead to next season right now, we need to go 254 00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:46,399 through free agency, the draft trays YadA, ya YadA. That's one of 255 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,000 the two or three teams that Denver is gonna need to go through. Sure, 256 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,000 anyway like that the primary teams are gonned to go through. I think 257 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,120 where it would be time and this would flip a bunch of our analysis on 258 00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:02,000 its head is if they decide that they can't, and it's not an issue 259 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,240 of can't, it would be an issue of when I best says won't pay 260 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,720 KDP and that's when it's okay, Now, you just lost two of your 261 00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:11,840 top six guys from that initial title. Bruce Brown, you couldn't pay. 262 00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:14,320 I don't think I saw anyone frame it as they could. You couldn't. 263 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:15,879 We'll move on the way. But like if you don't, I know he 264 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,840 had a rough offensive playoffs. He was second team All Defense for me this 265 00:16:19,919 --> 00:16:22,559 year, and I think he deserved it. He's thirty one, his best 266 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,159 days are probably behind him. He's too important to what you're doing now, 267 00:16:26,159 --> 00:16:30,519 and I think we've now proven unless you're just going to get a monster offensive 268 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,960 leap from Peyton Watson next year. But I even look at Christian Brown now, 269 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:37,360 you still need stuff from him offensively, specifically three point shooting. You 270 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,080 can't just insert insert by the way Christian Brown. I was a believer in 271 00:16:41,159 --> 00:16:45,320 him last year rickety points this season offensively, I'm just after the Timberwolves here. 272 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,440 He was their best probably their best Afy edwards defender. I know I 273 00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:52,600 work on him. He's gonna have a role like no matter if his offense 274 00:16:52,679 --> 00:16:56,639 doesn't change at all, he's gonna have that same role or a bigger one 275 00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:59,240 going forward. But you can't. I'm not at the point where I could 276 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,639 say, well you put him in for KCP. No, and it like 277 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,880 we're kind of like you nudged him up the pecking order and you were fine 278 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,240 for Bruce Brown. I just this would go one too far. They're just 279 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:11,680 not ready for it yet, and I don't know how they Bringing back KCP 280 00:17:11,759 --> 00:17:15,640 at least gives them more time to plan around like this. Oh if we 281 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,519 if they decide they need to get cheaper that they can't afford these guys. 282 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,440 But even when you go that route. This is actually my actual question to 283 00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:27,400 you, is there ever room or should there be room? Should they have 284 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,680 already made more room to see if Michael Porter Junior can do more offensively because 285 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,680 of what you just mentioned where you're talking about. By the way, by 286 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,079 the end of this series, it was even if Michael Porter Junior was taking 287 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,880 a three, it was kind of a win for the most but like for 288 00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:45,519 him to do more with where he goes up against these lanky and physical defenses, 289 00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:48,400 and like if you bump him off the three point line or he's not 290 00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:52,599 open, there's only so much that he can reasonably do, And it's do 291 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,640 they need someone more who can punish mismatches in the post or operate more off 292 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,720 the dribble. And then the twofold question off of that is should you make 293 00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:04,759 room for Michael porter to Junior to do that during the regular season next year? 294 00:18:06,079 --> 00:18:10,400 But also two like do you even want him shouldering that type of load 295 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,160 because with that, does it increase his exposure to back issues where if he's 296 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,319 trying to bang in the post or just take these guys more off the dribble 297 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,440 and follow through on all of his drives, or if you're also going to 298 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,599 task him with doing some playmaking. Not only is there the extra physical toll, 299 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,799 but you're gonna have to deal with some turnovers there, buddies. Yeah, 300 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,240 I think if if he it feels like a lot to ask, But 301 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,039 because of what we've just spent time talking about, where it's like, I 302 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:40,640 mean, it's more likely to me that they lose KCP then they bring in 303 00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:45,200 like a level of player that because they just can't that's at kcp's level or 304 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,160 higher. I think most likely they will just keep him and pay what it 305 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,319 costs and deal with it. But if you had to choose between are they 306 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,759 gonna lose him or bring somebody else in like that is as valuable as KCP, 307 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,079 it sort of has to be the former because they're just they don't have 308 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,960 the ability to bring in someone. So anyway, it's not the Porter question. 309 00:19:00,599 --> 00:19:06,200 It's it's fascinating because like he would have to be the thing with the 310 00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:10,759 Nuggets is they are had until this series been able to like get to what 311 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,839 they wanted to, which is just a heavy heavy dose of Jokic and Murray 312 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,079 when they really needed to score. And so like, yeah, to your 313 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,920 point, like I don't know if you wanna take away from those reps because 314 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,279 you're giving Porter Junior like more more chances, I guess, or just giving 315 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,279 him a bigger share of the offense. But like I guess, yeah, 316 00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:33,559 if you're gonna play a good enough defense that can actually take away the effectiveness 317 00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:37,119 of some of Jokich's game and some of Murray's game, you do just need 318 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,519 it to come from somewhere else. And I think of the other three starters, 319 00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:45,839 like it's probably it's definitely not KCP, it's not Gordon unless like in 320 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:51,039 terms of like can you score against like a defense that has overloaded to Yokichen 321 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,440 Murray, it sort of has to be Porter Junior. I don't even know 322 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,400 what that looks like, because he's not someone that's gonna like run a second 323 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,519 side pick and roll, you know, with any regularity. It's gonna have 324 00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:03,799 to be like a fake, you know, drive the clothes out, either 325 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,759 finish at the rim or make the next pass for an open three, which, 326 00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:11,839 again, like Denver was pretty happy, I mean, Minnesota was pretty 327 00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:15,319 happy giving up threes as long as you weren't getting anything close. So like 328 00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:18,720 I guess, I guess, like, yeah, because we're banking on organic 329 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:22,839 growth, like as the Nugget's best way to improve, Guys like Porter Junior 330 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,599 do have to add like five percent more, you know, as an off 331 00:20:26,599 --> 00:20:29,640 the dribble score or something like that, because where else where else is it 332 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,359 going to come from. You can't say, oh, Yokic needs to be 333 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,119 better. It's like he's as good as a human can be. And like 334 00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:37,200 Murray, yeah, more consistency would be great, but I don't know how 335 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,039 to evaluate that given the calf injury. And I think for people that are 336 00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:45,240 probably maybe and I would say I'm maybe slightly uncomfortable with kind of where the 337 00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:49,279 Nuggets go from here, because now you're so dependent on internal development. But 338 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,200 the fact that maybe they understood this or decided this before we thought they needed 339 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,920 to be that dependent bo as well for them. But if you're looking to 340 00:20:56,039 --> 00:21:00,079 actually overreact or be more like our analysis down to the Nuggs just gonna be 341 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,200 right back here next year and they need to be incrementally better somehow, that's 342 00:21:03,599 --> 00:21:07,400 not spicy. The spiciness could come. I think there's probably like three or 343 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,960 four Flash Bowl potential developments. It's we already mentioned one, the KCP free 344 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,440 agency. Now the extension eligibility. This is too for Aaron Gordon and Jamal 345 00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:19,880 Murray if like you don't even hear whispers that those talks are happenings, probably 346 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,599 specifically with Murray just because he becomes a free agent after next year. I 347 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:29,720 think that's a last year of his contract he'll be unrestricted. That would be 348 00:21:29,799 --> 00:21:33,720 the one where it's okay, what is going on here? And then the 349 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:36,400 other one and I don't think if they don't extend either of them, like 350 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,039 maybe there's just something like the Murray one is probably a bigger one than the 351 00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:41,599 Gordon just from a how committed are you to continuing to pay for this corps? 352 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,079 And then so that's that's three of those. And then the final one 353 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:51,160 would also be if you start to hear talk of Michael Porter junior trades and 354 00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:53,640 the returns that you're hearing are like, oh, there are these teams that 355 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,960 have cap space or out of like traded player exceptions, and there's draft equity 356 00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:02,319 being rumored. That's when you get worried if they, like I would even 357 00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:03,759 be a little bit worried if they decided that they wanted to break him up 358 00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:07,119 into like two or three players just because well, what does that say about 359 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:12,000 your faith in your internal development. But if you start like hearing those whispers, 360 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,319 that's when you start getting concerned because it means, oh, they just 361 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,599 watched this guy, but they just got punked by the guy that they could 362 00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:22,519 have kept. Good for Tim Connolly. And if you're Stan Cronky and you're 363 00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:26,240 looking at this, like I think as a competitor, I'd be like, 364 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:27,160 well, I need to prove that, like, yeah, they want a 365 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:32,640 title without him already, but it was with Tim Connolly's roster infrastructure. You 366 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,640 should double down and spend more. But if they go into like cost cutting 367 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:41,440 mode or even just sniffing around it, this isn't the level of they were 368 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,880 able to save money and get KCP. There will not be a move out 369 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,039 there that makes me feel the same way about this. And so if you're 370 00:22:47,079 --> 00:22:49,519 looking to overreact to the Nuggets and their future, I just don't think you 371 00:22:49,559 --> 00:22:53,319 could do it right now. But those are the things I would be monitoring 372 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,000 to see if this team is tilting in a direction that it should not be. 373 00:22:57,319 --> 00:23:00,640 And of those of those options you laid out, I think an MPG 374 00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:06,720 trade has to register as the most Like I don't know most I guess most 375 00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:11,920 likely and sort of the cleanest way to get maybe better without you know, 376 00:23:12,079 --> 00:23:17,519 without organic growth, like just because think of the if if MPJ is going 377 00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:19,319 to be in this role, which is like a limited role, right, 378 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,759 like he's nowhere close to your best defender. You don't need him as like, 379 00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:26,680 oh we got to have his length on this guy. And on offense, 380 00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:30,240 he's no higher than third on the on in the pecking order, and 381 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,200 given like the amount of facilitation Aaron Gordon has to do, maybe fourth, 382 00:23:34,519 --> 00:23:37,200 So like you really could split him into two guys, one of which is 383 00:23:37,319 --> 00:23:42,119 like I don't know, eighty percent eighty five percent of the offensive player just 384 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,480 in that role of like a catch and shoot guy. So then someone that 385 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:48,079 can defend, Like I don't know, there's there's ways to go there if 386 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,720 you split him, And it would be semi interesting if I didn't think that 387 00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:57,720 the shooting that Michael Porter Junior provides is I think more valuable to this team 388 00:23:57,759 --> 00:24:02,319 than people realize because the number I'll die on this hill. They didn't shoot 389 00:24:02,319 --> 00:24:04,359 particularly well during the playoffs from they like they don't take enough threes, and 390 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,839 I understand that a lot of that is just like look at how they're generating 391 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,880 their offense do they need to? But like when you're talking about like making 392 00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:15,119 up a variance where it's just like if you see the Timberwolves, like when 393 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,440 they were kind of up by seven inside two minutes, I know Denver's offense 394 00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:21,519 is Denver's offense is Denver's offense, but it was just like, oh, 395 00:24:21,559 --> 00:24:23,079 it's over. Yeah. And then certainly when they go up ten with three 396 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,920 men, you'res like it's over. And because they're just not a team that 397 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,200 really goes to three point volume that way, and Michael Porter Junior at least 398 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,799 gives you that idea, and how are you getting a player who replicates that? 399 00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:37,720 Well? Then also deepening your rotation. I agree with you that the 400 00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:42,720 cleanest way to deepen your rotation of proven players would be to trade Michael Porter 401 00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:47,240 Junior. But you also get into the issue of, well are you trading 402 00:24:47,319 --> 00:24:48,559 him I don't want to say it. Then the idea of his value but 403 00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:53,839 for less than he means to you, because you just perfectly outlaid his role 404 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,599 and how it's limited. Who's looking at his salary and saying, well, 405 00:24:56,599 --> 00:25:00,400 I want to pay him max money without knowing whether he can actually do much 406 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,200 more. He's their number three point five option. You call him. Are 407 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,039 we in a position to pay max money for that when we don't know if 408 00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:11,079 he could do more or even just to put him in the same role, 409 00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:14,599 And so that like you get into weird territory with that, which is why 410 00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:18,400 I'm just at this point, you're kind of married to the like the that's 411 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,200 not the two timelines, but if you're married to your internal development and so 412 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,799 I'm like, you run back your core five yeah, and hope that you 413 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,720 get enough breaks offensively from Christian Brown and from Peyton Watson. Maybe Strather or 414 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,279 Pickick can come in and give you minutes next year, maybe hunter Tyson can 415 00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:36,480 do something. But like, you're kind of and could you hit on a 416 00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:38,200 minimum? I you know I had thrown out the idea actually wrote about it 417 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,799 is. I know his Philly homecoming was cool, but like, if you 418 00:25:41,799 --> 00:25:45,119 wanted to go ring chasing and you're willing to sign for them, like Kyle 419 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,759 Lowr would be fantastic for this team. I don't think he sells everything, 420 00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:51,960 but it's like that's someone else who could give you different layers of offense, 421 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,799 even at his age. Right now, I just who are they gonna hit 422 00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:57,000 on and like, but maybe that we're talking about them getting incrementally better or 423 00:25:57,079 --> 00:26:00,720 deeper, you could feasibly do that just by signing the right minimum guy. 424 00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:04,480 Yeah, And it's like at the end of it, it's this is not 425 00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:10,200 an uncommon position for a champion, a past champion to be in where it's 426 00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:15,039 like now, because it's you cannot get here without being expensive, basically with 427 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,200 very few exceptions. And so now it's just like we need one or two 428 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,400 guys to hit that haven't contributed yet. And that's not the that's not the 429 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,440 most unlikely outcome in the world. It's like I keep thinking back to uh, 430 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,680 some of those Spurs teams where it's like they never went back to back. 431 00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:30,839 They just they'd get there, they'd win it, they'd come close or 432 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,279 not that close sometimes the following year, and then you know, two years 433 00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:37,640 later they'd win it again. And it might have been because like Tony Parker 434 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,119 took a step or like they suddenly got Danny Green or they you know that 435 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,640 whatever it is, like it's the model we never mattered this time, or 436 00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:51,119 like you say all the time, Sorry, I'm trying to I'm trying to 437 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,119 quote you to you. We love Danny Green around here, we do. 438 00:26:53,319 --> 00:27:00,440 Everybody loves Danny Green or just so it's weirdly like there's a blueprint here for 439 00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:03,880 the Nuggets and the Spurs pulled it off for like fifteen years, where you 440 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,119 just kind of try to stay as close to this good as you can and 441 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,200 it's gonna look a little different on the margins for a while, but you've 442 00:27:10,279 --> 00:27:12,200 got the main piece in Jokic, and you can just like you know, 443 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,640 hope one or two guys pop so you get a second rounder somewhere and he 444 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,759 turns into a guy that can give you twenty minutes and like you're just there. 445 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,440 So again, this is all circling back to, like you just I 446 00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:26,720 can't panic here. I can't do it because they're so good still, and 447 00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:29,200 you saying the Spurs made me think of this, and then I have a 448 00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:30,839 question for you to wrap it up. I think that's maybe a different podcast, 449 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:36,400 But the observation here is how did they win their first title by not 450 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,759 overreacting to these postseason failures? And I thought, I don't know if you 451 00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:41,519 saw the Michael Malone quote, I thought he phrased it perfectly. Failure is 452 00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:45,440 not fatal. It's like you could be pissed that they blew the twenty point 453 00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:48,359 lead, but they also lost to a team that quite they were the Timberwolves 454 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,440 were better than the Nuggets. Like that's just we can say it now. 455 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,559 They were at least in the discussion beforehand. So you got to this point 456 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,839 by not overreacting. Why are you going to overreact now when there's nothing you 457 00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:03,440 look at, Well, again the core five specific like you're starting lineup and 458 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,079 saying there's no reason, But what is the reason that they could not be 459 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,440 back here next year aside from injuries? Is do you see regression coming from 460 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,000 anyone aside from KCP And probably not? No. Uh. The one thing 461 00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:18,000 I will ask though, just because you are getting into his next contract, 462 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,960 Jamal Murray, Yeah, we need that the ship has said. I know 463 00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:25,880 he was injured, but the ship has sailed, and maybe he'll make an 464 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,599 All Star team. But like there was talk after last year, in part 465 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:32,119 because he's said so many big playoff shots about where does he rank kind of 466 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,680 in the pantheon of NBA stars, And like the answer is he doesn't. 467 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,960 That is this is very much someone who I view as predicated on playing alongside 468 00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:48,119 Nicole Jokic, and while he may fit and optimize what Jokic does, he 469 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,839 doesn't elevate NICOLEA. Jokic to me, although, but the question would be, 470 00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:56,119 because he is coming up on his next contract, could you plug someone 471 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,960 else? Like and I'm not even saying like, well, Jalen Pickett instead 472 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,920 of like trade Murray and like let give the keys. It's just is what 473 00:29:03,519 --> 00:29:07,880 because what Jokic does is indispensable? Is what Murray does? Because the way 474 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,799 he plays off Jokic, What what Murray does himself is absolutely it's not dispensable. 475 00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:17,720 It can be replicated by someone else. Yeah, what he does alongside 476 00:29:17,799 --> 00:29:21,480 Yokic? Is that replicable? And is it? Is the answer? Just 477 00:29:21,599 --> 00:29:23,519 even if you think it is, is the answer still just no? Because 478 00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:26,599 they've been together for so long. Isn't there a case to be made that 479 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:32,119 Murray is one of the hardest players to evaluate in the league just because of 480 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,599 like he's played his entire career as far as like his relevant is relevant NBA 481 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,640 existence has been alongside Jokic, and so it's like, what does he even 482 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,759 look like if he's if he's spent his career on another team, Like what 483 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,799 type of player is he, Like, how do we how do we regard 484 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,000 him? Like is he do we think he's like a microwave six man or 485 00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:53,720 something like with more defense? Maybe, I don't know, weird he said 486 00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:56,200 Jordan Clarkson because I was gonna say that name too. I think he's better 487 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,839 than Jordan Clarkson just he's bigger. But but still like there's a non zero 488 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,640 chance that we regard Murray as like, yeah, he's a nice player, 489 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,960 you know, Karris Lavert or something, you know, Spencer Dinwiddie like something 490 00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:12,680 something like probably not like that, But so I think like because of the 491 00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:17,160 whole, like Jokic, would you know, say like you can't get rid 492 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,000 of this guy. I love him. He would say that about a lot 493 00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:22,759 of people. I think. I do think it is fair though to say, 494 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:30,039 like Murray, what Murray does independent of Jokic is not something that you 495 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:36,119 would have a hard time like finding on the market under normal circumstances. Now 496 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,319 Denver doesn't have the resources to do that, But like, yeah, I 497 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,920 take your point, like he's not we don't need to keep doing the you 498 00:30:44,039 --> 00:30:47,119 know, he's never been an All Star, can you believe it? Like 499 00:30:47,279 --> 00:30:49,160 no, all NBA. It's like, yeah, hasn't been that good, 500 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,720 Like he's a really good player, but if he's the second best player on 501 00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:57,559 like a normal team, a team's not that great. There is value and 502 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,480 that's I don't want to denigrate him as a player, it's just I think 503 00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:06,319 it's time to have that conversation because what he does with Jokic, even if 504 00:31:06,319 --> 00:31:07,920 it's just a matter of because they've spent so long together, so you have 505 00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:14,680 that like telepathic chemistry that you're probably not going to be able just to duplicate. 506 00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:18,440 But it was I just thought about it, like even where Jokic was 507 00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:22,559 having just like rougher games or when it's like they're throwing like eight bodies at 508 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,960 Jokic and it's like like Murray could I know he was injured, but just 509 00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:27,400 and he's hit big shots in the playoffs. But we just have so much 510 00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:33,880 data, particularly during the non Yolkic minutes of Okay, there's limitations to what 511 00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:37,079 Jamal Murray is outside of the the Nicole Jokic bubble. Yeah, like if 512 00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:41,079 that's Kyrie for just to pick somebody in that spot, the Nuggets are better, 513 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,720 don't you think, Like just because he if if you're not sh in 514 00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:49,240 the semifinals. Yeah, you know, you're right, You're right. Yeah, 515 00:31:49,319 --> 00:31:52,839 I don't know if that that is an interesting piece. We've probably gone 516 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,359 long enough here on the Nuggets. Do you want to talk about the Thunder 517 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,400 or the Knicks next? I have rants on both, So which one won't 518 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,720 you take? Us? You did the intro, you have to direct this, 519 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:06,559 Okay, I think we should do the Knicks. So I'll just just 520 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,759 be some stray thoughts and then you can rants or take one, whichever one 521 00:32:09,799 --> 00:32:13,759 you like and run with it. Like so I said that at the top 522 00:32:14,079 --> 00:32:16,519 for different reasons the three teams that were eliminated, like don't need to panic 523 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,960 so much. And for the Knicks, it's obviously just because you didn't have 524 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,799 anything close to the team you thought you were going to have by the time 525 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:28,079 this series was over. That the injuries are what they were. That I 526 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,319 think raises as many questions as it like puts off as far as like, 527 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,359 well, I mean, what do what do you want them to do? 528 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,759 It's like, okay, but what about next year when you're trying to figure 529 00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:40,480 out, leave aside what it may cost to keep Anonobe and Hertenstein, Like 530 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,319 I don't think Julius Randall is part of your best five next year? Like 531 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,200 I just whatever that looks like, I don't think that's the case. So 532 00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:52,119 what do we do there? And then how do you assuming your whole Like 533 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,519 how do you toggle the This is a little bit like the MPGA question, 534 00:32:55,599 --> 00:33:00,599 but from a different angle, Like the Knicks are very good when Alan Brunson 535 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,839 is extremely high usage, but it's also not ideal because you can game plan 536 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,039 against that as a defense and he's gonna wear down and all this other stuff. 537 00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:10,759 So what are you gonna do to lighten his load? And how do 538 00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:14,960 you strike that right balance with a healthy roster of like, Okay, we 539 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,240 don't need Brunson initiating every play, but things kind of go best when he 540 00:33:20,359 --> 00:33:22,880 does. So where do those touches go if it's Randall, if it's somebody 541 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,960 else? Like how do you balance things back out when you do have a 542 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,160 you know, an actual rotation and guys aren't just gonna be out there for 543 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,559 forty minutes and you play with like one look the whole time. So yeah, 544 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,000 I I don't know if you want to start with like what went wrong 545 00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:38,480 for the Knicks or where they go? But I think they're all kind of 546 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,079 like, it's all kind of of a piece to me, Well, it's 547 00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:46,079 it's what went wrong is they ran out of bodies. It's just that's just 548 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,839 And I'm not saying maybe the pacers still went anyway, but if you're if 549 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,319 you're trying to conduct this in an alternate like, what could they have done 550 00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:55,880 differently? It's be healthier. And do you believe that that was controllable? 551 00:33:57,279 --> 00:34:00,599 Which I think this lead in to an interesting question which I actually don't think 552 00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:02,960 it's even close to their biggest question of the off season. Tims is going 553 00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:06,599 to sign an extension. It sounds like Fred Kautza, the athletic reporter, 554 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,000 that talks are ongoing. He was asked about it after a game seven too, 555 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,320 and he said, my agents will will handle that. He has changed 556 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,400 the culture there and the players love playing for him. And I think there 557 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:22,519 are two takes that are so unbelievably stupid that they bend my brain and so 558 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,800 and I will say one of them is a little bit more convincing than the 559 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:32,079 other, but there was an I'm not ascribing Minor Grant's opinion to anything I'm 560 00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:37,199 about to say, but I found this one tweet interesting that someone retweeted into 561 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:45,280 my timeline from at Flows ends Olini the TIBs era. One. Tibbs changes 562 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,960 the culture. Players embrace hard work. Two players performed beyond expectations. Three 563 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,519 a star is born or brought over four expectations for him. Five a deep 564 00:34:55,639 --> 00:35:01,400 playoff run is expected. Six freak injuries. Seven fans defend TIBs hard. 565 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,039 Eight players aren't the same next year. Nine fans turn on Tibbs. Ten 566 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:13,280 he's fired. I take freak injuries as a joke there to say Tibbs's minutes 567 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,599 management is the reason that these injuries happen. I don't know that I find 568 00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:22,920 that tweet particularly compelling because he wasn't in Minnesota long enough to do damage to 569 00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:24,760 anyone. And then if you're going back to his Chicago days, it's okay, 570 00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:30,119 was he Derek Rose was so young when he tours ACL Jimmy Butler has 571 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,599 like blossom into a superstar after and he wasn't even playing as much under TIBs 572 00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:37,159 as he was for I guess when he got to Minnesota for sure. So 573 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,920 like, do you describe any of the issues that Jimmy Butler's now battling. 574 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,280 We know about the lubell dang the joke, you knowa stuff people describe that 575 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,239 to Tibbs. I think it's more of a situation like, are we concerned 576 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:52,360 about Joleen Brunson, Josh Hart coming back next year? Even Randall is his 577 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,400 body Like because of the usage that they have now amassed under Tibbs, are 578 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,920 we concerned about how that's going to impact them in the future. I will 579 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,679 go to the flip side of this argument, where people think the Knicks are 580 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,039 built for this hashtag built for this because they played so much in the regular 581 00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:13,639 season, and I find both sides of that fence to be incredibly reductive. 582 00:36:14,119 --> 00:36:17,320 I want to see more information done that would then specifically relate to tims. 583 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,679 But the load management specifically, we've seen players who are load managed. Kawhi 584 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,440 Leonard still not available, and in this season it's he wasn't load managed and 585 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,480 look what happened, and that's yeah, he played a ton of minutes, 586 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,960 but it wasn't even close to the most in the league. It was enough 587 00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:34,079 to be in the All NBA discussion. And if you're a star, you 588 00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:36,679 should play enough to be in the All Like the goal is to play enough 589 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,199 to be in that discussion, and I'm not gonna assign a ton of value 590 00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:43,840 to the NBA saying like, we really haven't found a correlation between load and 591 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,519 management and health because of your business interests. And that came out just so 592 00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:51,480 happened to me while you're negotiating your next TV contract. I need to see 593 00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:53,280 more, like if you want to if you want to believe that, I 594 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,320 think it's a fair discussion to have. I think the other one is just 595 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,039 less fair where look, that could be discuss but again, I need to 596 00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:04,039 see the data where it's well, that's why the Knicks are ready for this 597 00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:07,800 because they played all these minutes in the regular season. That argument no longer 598 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,920 holds as much water when literally everybody was injured and tied, like Isaiah Hartenstein, 599 00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:15,920 Dante Deven, the guys who weren't dealing with the actual like, oh, 600 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,599 we're gonna diagnose this down to one or two injuries like they did with 601 00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:23,360 Brunchin or Josh Hart and it's okay, Like they looked higher like Dante DiVincenzo 602 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,079 just faded out by that, So you can't. I just I don't know 603 00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:30,920 what to make of it. But what I the final thing I will say 604 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,079 before throwing it to you. Is the injury I look at that seemed like 605 00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:38,960 it could be with regards to overuse. Is the Oji Ananobi hamstring thing, 606 00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:43,199 which I don't know if it was always the plan to Yang came after four 607 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,519 minutes, and you need to give credit to Tibbs to looking at him move 608 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,480 like he had a walker basically in his hand and pulling him. It is 609 00:37:53,079 --> 00:37:55,880 it is, it was. It was unnecessarily reckless to play him. That 610 00:37:57,039 --> 00:37:59,679 was just I know he only played four or five minutes. He hits two 611 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,039 shots. What are we fucking doing? You're like you got him for the 612 00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:06,119 longer term, and even if he won this series, you were just gonna 613 00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:09,639 get absolutely trucked over by that. I just that Tim said he wouldn't have 614 00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:13,360 played if the medical staff didn't clear him. Fred Katz had the report that 615 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,719 ogn Andobi's been lobbying to play. Part of your job is to save players 616 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,559 from themselves. You ultimately did it after four minutes. But what what was 617 00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:23,599 the point? Honestly, what was the point? I think that was stupid. 618 00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:31,079 But independent of that is once Ognnobi started playing, the ton Dennis just 619 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:37,519 we're already down guys, and you know who wasn't overused like Boian Madonovitch got 620 00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:42,159 injured anyway and got in Mitchell Robinson, he wasn't really being overused. Did 621 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,159 he come back too soon? That's a fair question. I'm Julius Randall that 622 00:38:45,159 --> 00:38:47,440 he gets injured in the middle of the year and can't come back, so 623 00:38:47,519 --> 00:38:52,079 you already down bodies. If you want to criticize Tim's minutes minutes management this 624 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:57,000 season, it's okay. Should Alec Burks and boy and Bogdanovich have played more 625 00:38:57,039 --> 00:39:00,360 after the trade deadline? Spoiler at the answer is yes, but I don't 626 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,840 know what that does in terms of preserving other people's bodies. And finally, 627 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,320 and I'm curious where you land on this. I know I'm throwing a lot 628 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,079 of things out you like, these are the playoffs if you want your team 629 00:39:10,119 --> 00:39:15,880 to win the playoffs? Is relying on your own guys so much, especially 630 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:21,639 when your alternatives are just non existent? Is there? Where's the cardinal sin 631 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,519 there? I don't think it's something that Tibbs deserves to be lauded for. 632 00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:27,880 I think that is to take to spun way out of it, like Tims 633 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,599 might be honest, something that let's just play our best players as many minutes 634 00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:35,039 as possible. So I just want to know where you land on that, 635 00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:38,000 because I don't have a strong enough take other than to say that we just 636 00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:44,960 don't have the information to know who if anyone, including TIB's is responsible for 637 00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:47,519 where the Knicks is health, not just wound up this season, but if 638 00:39:47,519 --> 00:39:52,840 there's gonna be this long term correlation with guys like brunts in and Heart and 639 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,599 Devincenzo and and even Randall. Yeah, I mean, I guess the answer 640 00:39:55,679 --> 00:40:01,760 to like the list of Thibodeau things we're on like number eight now, I 641 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,199 guess, and it would be how do they look next year? I guess 642 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,119 we'll see, right, Like we'll find out. So that part is at 643 00:40:08,199 --> 00:40:14,199 least, like by definition, uncertain. I think just everything else you mentioned 644 00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:17,199 is also kind of uncertain. I will say, like in my heart, 645 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,519 what I like believing and the side of this that like feels just kind of 646 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:28,039 yeah, that feels persuasive, Like that scratches a weird like logical itch is 647 00:40:28,159 --> 00:40:31,559 the idea that you can condition players to hold up for longer stretches of playing 648 00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:35,960 time. I like, I do think that just like checks out to me 649 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,639 like that I think I've mentioned this specifically before, of like the idea that 650 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,760 like if you train harder for something, you will get in better shape, 651 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,440 Like that is just like that's a fact, as long as you don't train 652 00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:52,920 so hard that you injure yourself or and then you either can't continue training or 653 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:57,400 your like top level is diminished. Like that's sure, Like that's logical too. 654 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,840 I'm persuaded by the idea that you can get guys conditioned acclimated to forty 655 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:07,320 minutes. I do think that's that that seems plausible to me, And I 656 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,199 do think for stretches of this postseason run, the Knicks did look like the 657 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,719 best conditioned team out there because they had guys winning hustle battles for offensive rebounds 658 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,039 and getting on the floor laden games when their opponents, who did not play 659 00:41:21,559 --> 00:41:23,960 as long or as much or as hard as the Knicks did all year, 660 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,559 like, weren't able to summon like that level of I don't know, stamina, 661 00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:32,719 intensity, whatever it is. So there's something there to me. And 662 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,840 then I guess I don't maybe this feels like a cop out, but you 663 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,360 don't really get to fully consider, like how at fault whatever. I know 664 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,679 that's not your phrasing, but like how dangerous TIBs strategy of like leaning on 665 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,039 guys for ridiculous you know, playing time demands is because like what did you 666 00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:54,599 We've talked about this too, what did you want him to do? Like 667 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,880 who did you want him to dust off? To get Josh Hart? Like 668 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,360 eight ten? It's like if you want to play him quote like a normal 669 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,960 load, like who was on the bench, Like we saw Jericho Simms for 670 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,199 a second and both of us were like, oh my god, Like that 671 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:13,119 guy couldnot get back in the series for the Knicks. It's it's like untenable. 672 00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:15,800 Well that would have been the case if he would have reached deeper into 673 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,719 the bench for other guys like out he dusted off Alec Burks and like holy 674 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:22,119 shit, Alec Burks was like really good for stretches, not because he rested 675 00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:23,360 so much. I'm right, it was he fresh, Well, that was 676 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,199 what it was. Is because he didn't play him at all. He was 677 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:30,880 saving right, So like he dug his deep into that bench as as was 678 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,559 like realistically possible unless you were just gonna give quarters away or give five minutes 679 00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:37,800 away at a time. Uh, in a in a game where you just 680 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,079 can't do that, So that's off the table. I don't know. I 681 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,519 like, I like like you. I think if you're one hundred percent on 682 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:50,119 the Well, Thibodeau ran him into the ground. This is his fault. 683 00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:52,800 You can't do this to guys. Look at all the load managing all these 684 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,079 other teams are doing. Clearly that was the case versus Well. I think 685 00:42:57,119 --> 00:43:00,639 he was dead right, Like he maximized this team's potential, and that's because 686 00:43:00,679 --> 00:43:02,639 he pushed this team harder than anyone else would have pushed him, and they 687 00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:07,480 excelled for that reason. Like, I think, I think you got to 688 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,440 be in the middle somewhere, and I don't know where that is. I'm 689 00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:13,639 leaning more towards the I like that he pushed them hard, and I like 690 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,280 the results they got. And really, at the end of the day, 691 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:21,000 like if this team's fully healthy, and that includes Julius Randall playing a huge 692 00:43:21,039 --> 00:43:22,880 role, I'm not sure they make it any farther than this. You know, 693 00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:27,840 I don't think you would not have I would never have put the Knicks 694 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,000 in the conference finals with with like the lineup they started the season with. 695 00:43:31,159 --> 00:43:34,320 And I guess you throw Og in there. And if he's healthy. It's 696 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,039 a totally different thing because they were so good with him. But I just 697 00:43:37,119 --> 00:43:40,280 feel like, however you finagled the minutes and the bodies and whatever, like 698 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,760 this is this is as far as the Knicks were going like this this maybe 699 00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:47,559 maybe they could have advanced to the conference finals, but I wouldn't have picked 700 00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:52,000 them to win, So like this is about right for them, even if 701 00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:55,199 it feels like, you know, this was such a strange way to arrive 702 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,960 at the conclusion of their season. I think where I and I'm with him 703 00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:04,119 thing you said and even to then, like your thoughts on the conditioning that 704 00:44:04,199 --> 00:44:07,159 oh, you can play this much, And that's to say, I don't 705 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,239 you tiber always responsible for anything that happened to the Knicks injury rits this season. 706 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,800 I do think it's an interesting long term discussion to where, Okay, 707 00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:20,159 yes, you're conditioned to play forty minutes a game when you're in your twenties, 708 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,559 but now that you have these guys that are gonna be on their contracts 709 00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:27,679 into their thirties, is does that one still work too? If it doesn't, 710 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,039 is Tim's the guy to manage their workload, and that, to me 711 00:44:31,639 --> 00:44:35,719 is probably the primary issue especially when it comes to og Anobi, because when 712 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,199 he got injured, by the way, people were acting like he had never 713 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:42,400 played a ton of minutes before. Motherfucking nick nurse didn't care about oj Anobi's 714 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:47,199 limbs and that though, like that matters in the sense of you're gonna like 715 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,079 og Anoby's always dealing with something like got out of bed and sprained his ankle 716 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,519 like or something like stepped out of bed the wrong way, And so is 717 00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:59,639 Thibodeau the guy to not play him a ton of minutes if that's what he 718 00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:04,880 does. He understand his players's limits, and I would say you probably need 719 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,440 to give him the benefit of the doubt based off how many of yeah, 720 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,360 okay, players who don't who aren't on the Knicks don't like him. Everyone 721 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,719 who's on the Knicks seems to love him. And it's I guess a lot 722 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,119 of people didn't like him in Minnesota, but in Chicago it was kind of 723 00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:21,599 the same way. And yes, you need to save players from themselves. 724 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,840 That's also wanted, like that's why you have a training staff that's not Tibbs. 725 00:45:24,159 --> 00:45:28,679 As like if the call was TIBs is to make on whether og Annobi 726 00:45:28,679 --> 00:45:30,079 would play or not, and he wasn't cleared by the medical staff. That's 727 00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:37,000 just franchise malpractice. It doesn't operate that way. So I think the agenda 728 00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:40,079 against Tibbs is just so overblown, is where I land. But I will 729 00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:45,639 say to think that he's just on to something. Revelatory is also a name. 730 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,880 Yeah, it's gotta be somewhere in the MI can ask you a couple 731 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,760 of kind of semi specific nixt questions that I'm just curious about, unless you 732 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,000 have something else you want to hit on the Knicks here. Can you hear 733 00:45:57,119 --> 00:46:00,840 Cosmo yelping in the background at all? No? Okay, good? Because 734 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,280 he is upset. I think he falls on the side of I don't know 735 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,679 if he's oh that's the nature of this gusion. I don't know if he's 736 00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:08,760 pro load management or playing guys twenty minutes to have an opinion. He's got 737 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:15,039 an opinion. Can we got to bert he No, he's asleep, he's 738 00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:22,639 right here, dead silent. Uh so Anonobi and Hartenstein, uh free agents 739 00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:25,079 Hardenstein. The most the Knicks can pay him, I think is like just 740 00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:30,199 under seventy three over four years yep og whatever they want, you know, 741 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,679 But they don't have a thirty million dollar player. It would be weird if 742 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,519 he became the first guy on this team. He's not the best player that's 743 00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:40,679 making thirty Sometimes that happens. Is there a risk maybe, list I don't 744 00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,960 know. I don't know which gimmick to use here, like your concern level 745 00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:49,760 or just it seems like the odds are both of those guys will be back 746 00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:52,440 that no team out there is gonna say, og, we're gonna full max 747 00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:55,519 you and the Knicks are like, can't, can't get there, or we're 748 00:46:55,559 --> 00:47:00,480 gonna give Hartenstein, you know, four for you just make it so the 749 00:47:00,599 --> 00:47:04,280 next are like, now we can't afford that, or we don't want to 750 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,679 do that four years and seventy two point six instead, Yeah, just vie. 751 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,679 Whatever it is, just is is there a risk for either of them 752 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,639 being gone? And then if not, what does having them both back at 753 00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:20,880 those new big numbers do like for the next Because I think hanging over all 754 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:22,960 this is we still think the Knicks need a player who's like at least as 755 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,480 good as Brunson, maybe not quite good. They need their second best player. 756 00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:30,559 And I think it's they've made progress in the sense that we probably would 757 00:47:30,559 --> 00:47:34,239 have even said at the start of this season they still need their first best 758 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:38,440 player. You did say that. Yeah, so the fact that they can 759 00:47:38,519 --> 00:47:42,880 now say second best player, it's still a pretty big deal. But it's 760 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,639 also a big deal that they don't have to say first best player. Yeah. 761 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:51,800 Uh so, I think so cart beside's the bigger flight risk, just 762 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,440 because there's a cap on what they can offer him. Of the four years 763 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,440 and seventy two point five that you mentioned, I think they will offer to 764 00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:00,840 him. But it's also he seems like a fake flight risk in the sense 765 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:06,159 that who's going to meaningfully come over the top of that to give him, 766 00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:08,000 Like it's just the look at the teams with cap space. I guess the 767 00:48:08,039 --> 00:48:12,519 Pistons could use him, But are you gonna start him over Duran? Yeah? 768 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:17,599 Well, Orlando, no kill me. I like you have no like 769 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,119 you just like you want to fuck with the Knicks that much that Yeah, 770 00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:22,719 we's gonna have two bigs. I guess if you're gonna think that Joel'll be 771 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,519 the only plays like forty five games a season or something. So I think 772 00:48:27,559 --> 00:48:30,960 he's back and that number is fine because Mitchell Robinson's deal is declining and is 773 00:48:31,039 --> 00:48:35,440 not huge. And so if you start off, like just to just to 774 00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:38,360 ballpark the numbers here, if you're gonna have Isaiah Harten sign at about seventeen 775 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:43,840 million dollars annually or whatever it ends up being, and then you're gonna tack 776 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:49,159 that onto uh, Mitchell Robinson's salary, which for next season is fourteen and 777 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,360 like thirty something million dollars in your in your entire center rotation. That's fine. 778 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,519 So that's not a huge difference. OG is interesting because I don't think 779 00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:00,480 he's a flight risk because he can't. You don't trade two of your core 780 00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:04,920 players, even if RJ. Barrett kind of regressed out of that discussion. 781 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:10,679 So another team can offer Og four years and one hundred and eighty one point 782 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,400 I think five million or something around there. So the Knicks can offer him 783 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,239 like four years and one hundred and eighty nine and a half, and so 784 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,719 that's just money that like, they could also offer him a five year deal. 785 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,400 Oh no, I'm actually wrong on the number that they could offer OG. 786 00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:29,599 I haven't written down. So it's four years and one hundred and eighty 787 00:49:29,679 --> 00:49:32,000 one point nine. From other teams, they could give him one hundred and 788 00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:35,239 eighty nine point five over four. I was right. I should trust myself. 789 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,480 The five year max is two hundred and forty five point three million dollars. 790 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,199 This is where things get interesting for me. I'll be shocked if he 791 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,760 gets the five year max. I'm wondering if this unfolds in the vein of 792 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,719 do the Knicks just max mat over four years from the jump and because they 793 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,199 know that. Look the teams that have cap space that I think you would 794 00:49:52,199 --> 00:50:00,159 need to watch, Okasee, Philly and Detroit Orlando could use it, but 795 00:50:00,199 --> 00:50:01,760 you probably want someone with more balls. Anyone can use og Anobe. Let's 796 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:06,440 be attack clear, like those are the teams where it's ill mean, we're 797 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,679 gonna get into the thunder. Like if you put og on the Thunder, 798 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,239 I'm probably picking them to win the title next year, straight up. I 799 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:15,440 have someone else for them. But yeah, it was so is it Daniel 800 00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:22,199 Gafford spoiler alert? But so I want to see where he ends up because 801 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:23,480 it's there's a bunch of questions where it's so they just give him the four 802 00:50:23,519 --> 00:50:27,760 year max because of what's else out there on the market. Is there a 803 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,679 fifty year carrot involved where he's below the max? And at a lower annual 804 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,480 number, but you've now beaten out other offers, so this makes you more 805 00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:38,880 manageable on a per year basis, where it's like if they were So I 806 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:44,320 don't know if that's an option or do we see him just get less than 807 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,760 we expect because you're a non superstar in the super tax era and teams are 808 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,280 not just looking at their payroll for next season now they're scaling two, three, 809 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,440 four or five years and beyond five years is probably too long, but 810 00:50:54,639 --> 00:50:59,159 you get my point there. So I'm actually more interested in his free agency 811 00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:01,519 even though he's less likely to leave. Does that make any sense? Yeah, 812 00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:05,440 no, it does it. It's kind of the same almost. I 813 00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:07,119 mean, I guess this checks out, but like it kind of feels the 814 00:51:07,159 --> 00:51:12,039 same as the Siakham situation in Indi Indiana, where it's like you can't let 815 00:51:12,119 --> 00:51:15,480 him go, but that fifth year and that number that gets way up over 816 00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:17,800 two hundred gets a little scary. So it seems to me, like, 817 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,159 to answer my own question, the most likely outcome for him is the one 818 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,039 you set up where it's like they go four year max. For I'm talking 819 00:51:25,119 --> 00:51:30,039 Sam and Anonobi, that will be the best offer available because no one else 820 00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:32,079 can beat that, and if he's if either of them is pissed off because 821 00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:36,639 they're not getting the fifth year, like tough, you're not gonna get it 822 00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,239 from anybody. So just like it's a little uncomfortable to spend that much, 823 00:51:40,639 --> 00:51:46,159 especially on the Ananobe side, just because like you know, injuries, injuries, 824 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,599 and and I don't know, now I'm questioning whether that's true. Siakam 825 00:51:50,679 --> 00:51:54,719 just seems like someone maybe because his team's still playing that likes offer, whereas 826 00:51:54,760 --> 00:52:00,760 Anonobe is like Ananoby's an A plus role player and Yakama I think of a 827 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,199 little bit differently, like he's like a B plus second star, which it 828 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,800 feels like s the you know, two different categories. You probably could argue 829 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:13,079 the injuries without Anobe matter, but his game, because he doesn't do as 830 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,320 much offensively, it should probably age better. Although I guess defending five positions 831 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,639 is I don't know, but yeah, anyway, I don't think either of 832 00:52:20,679 --> 00:52:22,400 them are serious flight risks, but it is like that's a thing the Knicks 833 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,760 are going to have to consider, and that's all tied into like the pursuit 834 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,119 of the next you know, the other star, and that's so Fred Katz 835 00:52:30,159 --> 00:52:34,159 and The Athletic also reported this in kind of his semi finals wrap up piece, 836 00:52:34,199 --> 00:52:36,519 that the Knicks are going to be on the hunt for that star, 837 00:52:36,679 --> 00:52:42,440 but I actually there's other So the star search dovetails with Julius Randol's future. 838 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,880 He's extension eligible. The more, I don't know if it's fascinating and it's 839 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,039 not really a choice you have to make. But you offer Jalen Brunson the 840 00:52:51,159 --> 00:52:54,480 extension that he is eligible for, which is the Knicks can pay him four 841 00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:58,880 years and one hundred and fifty six point five million about and so it would 842 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,559 sign him, he declines his player option for twenty five twenty six, and 843 00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:07,920 then you would have him under locking key through two thousand and twenty eight twenty 844 00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:12,719 twenty nine at this point if he signs and so it's it's basically adding an 845 00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,599 extra year onto his deal at a higher number. However, if you're Jalen 846 00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:20,679 Brunson, next year's your age twenty eight season, so you're looking at four 847 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,400 years and one hundred and fifty six point five million, that would you know 848 00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:27,039 that's I mean, it's a good amount of money. But if you wait 849 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,719 to go into free agency to climb your player option, you would be eligible 850 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:36,679 for money that is well more than that, Like we're talking. I think 851 00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,360 it's four years, yeah, and or four years and two oh nine. 852 00:53:42,039 --> 00:53:45,440 So that's a lot of money. And I think he's probably young enough to 853 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,920 where you could say, yeah, you just wait because even if you don't 854 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,840 get the full max, some team is going to pay you more than four 855 00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,599 years and one hundred and fifty seven million dollars. But is there like sort 856 00:53:55,599 --> 00:54:00,679 of a revelatory moment for him where oh, shit, can go sideways real 857 00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,480 fast because I just fractured my hand and injured my leg and so I'm just 858 00:54:04,519 --> 00:54:08,079 gonna take this guaranteed money. And is there some weird allegiance to not weird, 859 00:54:08,159 --> 00:54:12,360 but some loyalty to well, this is the organization, this is the 860 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,000 city that gave me the keys and also oversaw my ascent of superstardom. I'm 861 00:54:16,079 --> 00:54:19,679 just curious. He said he'd be interested in signing an extension, but like 862 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,119 when you dig into the numbers, I would be if he accepts it. 863 00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:29,440 He's got to be the only player in NBA history whose first three contracts like 864 00:54:29,639 --> 00:54:32,480 are some of the biggest bargains in the in the league because and it's not 865 00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:36,679 even you can call peke Lebron a bargain. You would pay him whatever. 866 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,079 Same with Steph But like Brunton being on second round draft pick money to a 867 00:54:40,159 --> 00:54:44,199 deal that some people thought was market value ends up being one of the best 868 00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,360 deals in the league, to then signing an extension when you just finished fifth 869 00:54:46,679 --> 00:54:50,880 in MVP voting that would still have you on one of the best deals in 870 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,480 the league by the time it's over. I can't I can't bring myself to 871 00:54:54,519 --> 00:54:59,039 think that that actually occurs. Yeah, laid out that way for for one 872 00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:02,280 fifty six and a half is just like you can't sign that if you're in 873 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:07,079 unless unless, like you you are sure that your hand is never gonna be 874 00:55:07,079 --> 00:55:10,360 your shooting hand is never gonna be the same, or something ridiculous like that's 875 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:14,920 just not that is not close to market value. Well, unless can they 876 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,559 do something I know it's being investigated by the WNBA, but like Las Vegas 877 00:55:17,599 --> 00:55:21,840 sponsoring the Aces and like giving them e hundred with that, which by the 878 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:23,599 way, I'll I don't have problem with that. I love it. Yeah, 879 00:55:23,599 --> 00:55:27,519 but like, can can New York do something like that? Like we're 880 00:55:27,679 --> 00:55:30,119 to sponsor Jahn brunts it for fifty million dollars. That would be the only 881 00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:32,920 way that the Knicks would wreck this whole thing is to have some under the 882 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,760 table Timberwolves deal that costs you six draft picks and a huge fine or whatever. 883 00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:43,199 But what's interesting about the brunts and number because you mentioned the second star 884 00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:46,239 search, it does increase the urgency when you look at Hart and Stein get 885 00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,599 new more expensive OG signing what's probably gonna be a four year max if we 886 00:55:50,679 --> 00:55:53,239 both just had to predict how this ends. And then okay, Jallen Brunson's 887 00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,599 extension eligible. He will be on new money not next season, but the 888 00:55:57,639 --> 00:56:01,280 season after, basically, regardless of what he does like and Josh Hart his 889 00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,679 extension kicks in. He's gonna be a little bit more expensive next year. 890 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,760 And you have these draft picks, and now you have right now you have 891 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,519 what you would consider And actually I want to throw it to you because you 892 00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:14,679 said something to me in a text message over the weekend that like, stuck 893 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,320 with me, what is the Knixes like what needs to be their objective this 894 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:25,360 summer? Well, I just I tie it to like trying to envision they 895 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,079 need to be better, right, And maybe some of that's being healthier. 896 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:34,000 How do you get better? And you can't divorce that question from like the 897 00:56:34,119 --> 00:56:37,800 star they're going to hunt and the Randall piece of it. So it's like, 898 00:56:37,119 --> 00:56:40,480 let's start with if they just come back with this roster and they don't 899 00:56:40,519 --> 00:56:45,519 go get somebody, which seems unlikely, what's their best five? Like who 900 00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:50,840 are you starting? Who you're closing games with? I would probably Devincenzo, 901 00:56:51,079 --> 00:56:54,960 Hart, hartenstein Og and Brunson, Right, Yeah, I think that's the 902 00:56:55,039 --> 00:57:00,880 correct answer. And so if that's the right answer, Handle cannot be on 903 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,800 this team because he makes too much and he's he is just like your sixth 904 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:10,000 man essentially that you it's not clear to me that he is a value add 905 00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,400 like as a second unit player, if he'd even want to do that, 906 00:57:13,559 --> 00:57:16,800 Like that's just not realistic. So he's got to move then. I guess 907 00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:22,440 that's kind of separate from because you're not like necessarily trading. I wouldn't think 908 00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,400 you're trading him for your second best player. I just don't know that makes 909 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:30,400 it harder. I guess the salary match matters. But like if it's Cleveland 910 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,079 and it's Donovan Mitchell, which that's a whole other discussion. I am less 911 00:57:32,159 --> 00:57:36,480 convinced now that Donovan Mitchell is the right second star for this team than I've 912 00:57:36,519 --> 00:57:40,119 ever been. I don't think he's not. Yeah, so you're I just 913 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,000 I don't under Jalen Brunson's acent coupled with it that you never should have had 914 00:57:45,079 --> 00:57:50,480 the two smaller guards, Like, that's just not the functioning model he's he's 915 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,760 If it's an issue that he overlaps with Darius Garland, it's damn sure an 916 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:57,320 issue that he overlaps with Jalen Brunson. Like, that's just they're really different 917 00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,480 counterparts, but same idea. So what's Randal getting you? And does that 918 00:58:01,599 --> 00:58:06,679 mean then that your acquisition of another player doesn't include Randall? So it's some 919 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,239 other salaries and all the picks and stuff. I don't know how you get 920 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,719 there. It's just like a complicated thing. So well, I think you 921 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,159 need to upgrade the Randall spot. I think you need to get a star, 922 00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,480 and I think you need to figure out then which of the five players 923 00:58:17,559 --> 00:58:22,119 you mentioned and I agree with as a closing lineup, who's coming out now? 924 00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:23,679 Is that Devincenzo goes back to a six man role. I guess it 925 00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:28,039 depends on you they end up adding. I actually think you probably togg with 926 00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:30,360 because of what og can do. Depending on the matchups, you could yank 927 00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:37,039 Hart or Hartenstein or even Devincenzo. From where it's Brunton and og are your 928 00:58:37,079 --> 00:58:39,679 closing locks. And then if you're going to get a star, you're assuming 929 00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,039 if you're getting a star who's not going to close for you, then maybe 930 00:58:43,079 --> 00:58:46,079 don't get that star so that that would be your third lock. But what 931 00:58:46,159 --> 00:58:51,039 I was so you would said it preserve. That's why this some are so 932 00:58:51,079 --> 00:58:53,800 important. You said, the Knicks need to preserve the spirit, improve the 933 00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:59,079 talent. That gets a lot harder to do if you have to start including 934 00:58:59,639 --> 00:59:04,079 Josh Heart Devincenzo in these trades to bring back a star. As of right 935 00:59:04,199 --> 00:59:07,239 now, you do not, because you can guarantee the boy on Magdonovic salary 936 00:59:07,639 --> 00:59:13,840 and you have Julius Randall and those two together you're talking about over forty million 937 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,719 dollars in agreeable salary, and the Knicks they don't have to concern themselves with 938 00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:22,199 the second apron stuff, even with paying Hartenstein and og An Andobi yet, 939 00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,079 so you can aggregate those salaries and that's gonna get you to a point if 940 00:59:25,119 --> 00:59:29,880 you guarantee Bodanovic you're talking about and you know, I said over forty million, 941 00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,519 because it's like forty seven forty eight, and so then you tack that 942 00:59:31,599 --> 00:59:34,800 on top of oh, you could take back one hundred and twenty five percent 943 00:59:35,079 --> 00:59:37,599 plus two hundred and fifty k. That gets you anybody. So like, 944 00:59:37,679 --> 00:59:40,719 there's your package, and you have the draft equity, and then back it 945 00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:45,840 up. Even if the team does not view that you're trading with Julius Randall 946 00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:50,440 and or boy On Bardonovich is a value add you still have the supplementary assets 947 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,639 to back up that offer. I don't know who the player is, and 948 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,880 it's you can talk about players that might become available, but also don't seem 949 00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:00,760 like they're gonna become available. I don't think Towns was the right answer anyway 950 01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:05,239 personally, and now to Minnesota would be fucking stupid to even entertain breaking this 951 01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,960 up. Donovan Mitchell's not the answer. It would he becomes available. Darius 952 01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:13,400 Garland won't be the answer either. If he becomes available. People like to 953 01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,840 mention Devin Booker. Zach Low had kind of reported that he's heard there's no 954 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:22,159 Devin Booker, trade demand coming, and he's like the guy in that city. 955 01:00:22,199 --> 01:00:23,239 And if he requested a trade, like it's all over for the Suns 956 01:00:23,239 --> 01:00:25,599 and there he has so many years left on his contract they could try and 957 01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:30,280 cut it out. I don't know who the name is, my personal preference 958 01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,840 is, but it's so predicated on him wanting to be here. The Clippers 959 01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:37,519 cooperating is the Paul George opted in trade because of just you have the money 960 01:00:37,559 --> 01:00:40,239 to match it. And then you might I know, people, well, 961 01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:45,079 he's thirty four, Look what he just did in the playoffs. You don't 962 01:00:45,119 --> 01:00:46,800 need to give up a ton to get him. You're almost kind of you're 963 01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,840 kind of kicking the can a little bit, because if George wants to be 964 01:00:51,199 --> 01:00:53,320 on the Knicks or leave the Clippers, the threat of him leaving for nothing 965 01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,880 where there are teams with caps face who could just sign him and would sign 966 01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,960 him out right, that forces them to say, yeah, we should probably 967 01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:02,239 roll him over into two salary slots and a pick. And so now you've 968 01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:06,400 gotten a player who better fit, Like he's just a better fit than Julius 969 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:07,960 Randall. I've seen a lot of people say Julius Randall's better than Paul George 970 01:01:08,199 --> 01:01:13,039 one factually inaccurate, and two even if he is, Julius Randall's the cleaner, 971 01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:15,880 Paul George is the cleaner fit here, and so you're getting him at 972 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:21,559 a reasonable asset cost. I know his next contract. If he ops in 973 01:01:21,639 --> 01:01:22,480 and you trade for him and then you have to extend him, it's a 974 01:01:22,519 --> 01:01:27,119 lot of money for someone who's aging. You have the personnel in theory to 975 01:01:27,239 --> 01:01:30,599 lighten his role on both on defense for sure, offense. He kind of 976 01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:32,320 settles into being your number two, which is he was kind of like the 977 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:37,599 number two number three in Los Angeles this year. But you've now preserved assets 978 01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:39,800 to where if you need to make a subsequent move, you still have that 979 01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:44,000 ability to do so. It will then cost you some of as you phrase 980 01:01:44,039 --> 01:01:45,639 at your spirit. But that's why this summer is so important. It's I 981 01:01:45,679 --> 01:01:50,440 don't know that there will be another offseason unless Julius Randall opts in which I 982 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,119 wouldn't expect him to after next year, to where you can preserve the spirit 983 01:01:54,599 --> 01:01:58,159 and then also get better. And the other name I throw out, I 984 01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,000 just don't they have the money to get him. I just everything we hear 985 01:02:00,039 --> 01:02:04,119 is that Brooklyn is more likely to make a trade to pair someone with. 986 01:02:04,199 --> 01:02:07,000 But like McHale Bridges, I also think it's fair to question, like, 987 01:02:08,039 --> 01:02:12,159 can you win with him as your second best player in Brunton as your there's 988 01:02:12,719 --> 01:02:15,440 that might be another Oh the some of their parts is just so great that 989 01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:20,039 yeah, it's enough. But I even think after watching these playoffs that you 990 01:02:20,159 --> 01:02:22,440 want, like Paul George is a better at least for the next couple, 991 01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,639 I would say another year or two, like he's gonna give you a higher 992 01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:29,960 end level of shot creation. Then I'm McHale Bridges, but maybe I'm just 993 01:02:30,039 --> 01:02:32,039 so I don't want to say poisoned, but impacted by what we see from 994 01:02:32,039 --> 01:02:37,280 Bridges in Brooklyn, where he was so defenses were so geared towards stopping him. 995 01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,440 Yeah, the the George versus Bridges thing is is fascinating because I think 996 01:02:40,719 --> 01:02:45,639 I think it's the case that today Paul George is a better player that gives 997 01:02:45,679 --> 01:02:49,440 you more of what you need. But like we're at a point where it's 998 01:02:49,679 --> 01:02:52,119 like that might not be true like tomorrow, Like it's that close, yeah, 999 01:02:52,239 --> 01:02:55,039 between him and Bridges, And if you're I guess it's how I'm like, 1000 01:02:55,239 --> 01:03:00,039 are the Knicks viewing this as like Bridges is that piece we want him. 1001 01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:04,000 Given his age, We're going to get these you know, next prime 1002 01:03:04,079 --> 01:03:06,559 years out of them. Paul George, We're like trying to hold on for 1003 01:03:07,079 --> 01:03:09,320 next year, maybe the year after. I mean, either either one of 1004 01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:14,360 them improves them substantially. It's just kind of a question of like, I 1005 01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,079 don't know how long do you want this window to be? Which is I 1006 01:03:16,159 --> 01:03:22,519 think Paul George, your ceiling is higher with Michael Bridges, your window is 1007 01:03:22,639 --> 01:03:27,679 longer, or just different house parts. Yea, the doors open, the 1008 01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:31,000 floor, we've covered, We've covered all four dimensions of the house. Trying 1009 01:03:31,039 --> 01:03:36,440 to think if I had anything. Oh uh, now I think I'm ready 1010 01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,039 to go to Okay, see I thought I had more and more Randall stuff, 1011 01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:42,119 but we hit that already. Yeah, Okase, he's interesting. Where 1012 01:03:42,159 --> 01:03:45,400 did you lay? I mean, okay, I know you have a rant. 1013 01:03:45,119 --> 01:03:47,960 So this is the third team where it's like I'm not panicking and it's 1014 01:03:49,079 --> 01:03:52,079 just because it's the youth. It's some of this was should have been expected, 1015 01:03:52,159 --> 01:03:57,360 like the disappointing elements of it. Jaylen Williams didn't have a series that 1016 01:03:57,639 --> 01:04:01,920 you know he's going to be happy about Jeff Yeah, tough personally, chet 1017 01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:06,440 Holmgren had you know, wasn't consistent enough. Needs to prove that he's a 1018 01:04:06,559 --> 01:04:11,199 higher volume, quicker trigger three point shooter to really maximize the value of his 1019 01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:14,840 ability to space as a five. The rebounding was a problem, the rim 1020 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,239 protection was a problem, like all that stuff. But it's like, what 1021 01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,440 did you want from this team? Like this is their first like deep run, 1022 01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:25,679 they learned a lot. They know what the issues are, I would 1023 01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:29,480 say, and maybe this will give you like a springboard. You did know 1024 01:04:29,719 --> 01:04:32,599 roughly what the issues were at the trade deadline and coming into these playoffs. 1025 01:04:32,719 --> 01:04:36,920 So if you want to be critical about them not going out and getting somebody, 1026 01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:42,679 I guess you can lean on that. To me, I don't feel 1027 01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:47,119 like they blew some opportunity. Is like a credible take because they didn't go 1028 01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,480 trade a bunch of picks for somebody this summer. I think they do need 1029 01:04:50,559 --> 01:04:55,159 to add like a real upgrade on Giddy that that's just the spot in the 1030 01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:58,840 line in the rotation that has to be better, like in a major way. 1031 01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:00,800 And then if not him, even the next guy you look AT's probably 1032 01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:05,039 Dort, Like can we get somebody that's a bigger offensive threat that can do 1033 01:05:05,119 --> 01:05:10,199 stuff with the ball. There is it worth sacrificing, you know, minimizing 1034 01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,679 or removing his defense from the team. I don't know, but the thunder 1035 01:05:13,719 --> 01:05:17,599 exceeded expectations. They all they too, like Denver will absolutely be back. 1036 01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,719 I'm more confident that they will be better than I'm confident that Denver will get 1037 01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:26,280 better. So it's just what do they will get into the offseason. But 1038 01:05:26,559 --> 01:05:29,719 for them, it's like, you need to add a huge piece this summer 1039 01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,360 because you're close to good enough and now is the time. But I don't 1040 01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:39,480 feel like you can in a serious way really knock them for like literally anything 1041 01:05:39,639 --> 01:05:43,360 that happened in losing the Dallas Apparently you can because I saw, and it 1042 01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,159 was mostly before their loss, that they should have been more aggressive at the 1043 01:05:46,159 --> 01:05:53,400 trade deadline. I have so many thoughts there. And I had tweeted after 1044 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,960 I took an edible, I don't know that they kicked My response is the 1045 01:05:56,079 --> 01:05:58,039 edible had kicked in, but I was like, I didn't. It was 1046 01:05:58,119 --> 01:06:00,800 rolling off me. People were mad to ast too, But Kara, I 1047 01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:01,719 told you before, I was like, that might be the key. I 1048 01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,679 just need to be high all the time. Uh. I think they made 1049 01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:10,639 the right call not being more aggressive at the deadline, because now you have 1050 01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:15,559 all this information to instruct your future. Everyone's response was what we knew they 1051 01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:18,679 needed to get bigger. And so that's not the only thing that went wrong 1052 01:06:18,719 --> 01:06:21,199 in this series. You already talked about. It is. Yes, they 1053 01:06:21,239 --> 01:06:25,239 were out rebounded, they lost the second chance points. I think it was 1054 01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,800 ninety eight to sixty seven or ninety seven to sixty eight, whatever. That's 1055 01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,519 a big difference. You know what else also happened? Grant, PJ. 1056 01:06:30,679 --> 01:06:35,440 Washington and Derek Jones Junior hit thirty three threes to Jay Dubbs and Chet Holmgren's 1057 01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:40,480 fourteen. If they were gonna more that, there's no fucking big man Shortian 1058 01:06:40,559 --> 01:06:44,480 Nikoliochis that would have come or Joel Ebid come in and shift the fortunes of 1059 01:06:44,519 --> 01:06:48,679 those series. If those guys aren't like not even just how poorly j dubb 1060 01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:53,000 kind of fair on offense and did it for Jet Holmgren, but also like 1061 01:06:53,239 --> 01:06:56,360 what was happening with PJ. Watt and Derek Jones Junior just hitting so many 1062 01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:00,480 threes. I think too, like in a little bit the same way of 1063 01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,039 how we're evaluating Denver in the wake of losing to Minnesota, like Dallas is 1064 01:07:04,199 --> 01:07:09,440 just that defense is really fucking good. It's just that there's no more. 1065 01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,559 There's no more like will it hold up or like how real? No? 1066 01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:17,519 No, like they just the defense is great and it's it's it's just enough, 1067 01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,639 like buy in from Luca and Kyrie is playing the best defense I think 1068 01:07:20,639 --> 01:07:24,920 I've ever seen him play. And Washington and Gafford and Jones are just like 1069 01:07:25,039 --> 01:07:30,280 the athleticism and the physicality is so sustainable, Like that's such a real thing. 1070 01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,719 I'd be stunned if they didn't, Like, what is this Conference Finals 1071 01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,440 going to be? Like, By the way, with these two defenses, 1072 01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:36,679 we have a lot of games I feel like in the eighties and nineties. 1073 01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,639 Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of here for it. They've I don't 1074 01:07:40,679 --> 01:07:44,920 mind the low scorers if they're played that hard. I think we need to 1075 01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:48,960 talk about So you said that the thunder did they needed information, They got 1076 01:07:49,039 --> 01:07:51,840 information, like some of it was confirmed, some of it's a little new. 1077 01:07:53,119 --> 01:07:57,119 So like where are you looking now? Thirty three million in cap space 1078 01:07:57,199 --> 01:08:02,480 potentially unless you start trimming with like trade all the picks. Here was also 1079 01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:05,440 my issue though to wrap up on, because the response I got was like, 1080 01:08:05,679 --> 01:08:08,920 well, they could have been the team that traded for Daniel Gafford. 1081 01:08:09,199 --> 01:08:12,440 Jander Gaffer was a minus fifty eight in this series. I know he played 1082 01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,000 for the MAVs, not the Thunder, but so much of what the Thunder 1083 01:08:15,039 --> 01:08:18,920 do? They want to play five out, and if you put Daniel Gafford 1084 01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:24,720 or another traditional big on the floor, you aren't going to change the spacing 1085 01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,199 in a way that makes it more difficult for Shaye, Gilgess, Alexander and 1086 01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:30,920 JDub to create on drives, which by the way, it was already super 1087 01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:35,920 difficult to create because the Dallas Mavericks were both physical, flying around and packing 1088 01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:40,359 the paint anyway, and so that in guarding Giddy with the center, so 1089 01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,039 like you say five out, it's five out, but only four of those 1090 01:08:44,079 --> 01:08:46,079 guys get guarded, and really it's more like three because three because lou Dort, 1091 01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:49,640 they're not guarding him like the way they would other shooters. And so 1092 01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,279 they've decided they want to play five out. You need to find someone who 1093 01:08:53,319 --> 01:08:56,720 fits that motif, and so what you needed to do if you want it, 1094 01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:59,720 and we both would have been on board if they made a big move, 1095 01:09:00,239 --> 01:09:05,439 but you needed to find someone who is one a substantial upgrade over big 1096 01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:12,239 Jalalen Williams, two been able to play beside chet, and three been the 1097 01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:16,479 difference in this series specifically? Who did they pass on that would have been 1098 01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:20,359 the difference in this series specifically? And do you know they're two? This 1099 01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:26,560 is twofold here and this will tie into what happens this offseason. PJ Washington 1100 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,520 was someone that we had talked about them getting. He might have made a 1101 01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:31,079 huge difference. I don't really know how much he would have helped their rebounding 1102 01:09:31,119 --> 01:09:35,760 purposes. Ever, so many people, including us, perhaps mistakenly so I 1103 01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:39,479 still think there's a lot to play out for this. If the cost was 1104 01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:43,359 a top two protected first round pick, I would not have told the Thunder 1105 01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,840 to go get PJ Washington. And so unless you sat there and said they 1106 01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:49,000 should have beat that offer in the moment, I don't want to fucking hear 1107 01:09:49,079 --> 01:09:54,399 it. I don't want to hear it. And to that end, the 1108 01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,720 players that we've you said substantial upgrade, you know when most of those substantial 1109 01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,000 upgrades become available, it's not in the middle of the season. It's over 1110 01:10:01,039 --> 01:10:04,600 the off season that's when these bigger names if you let's use I don't think 1111 01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:08,039 they could get him. I think he will stay in Utah. But if 1112 01:10:08,079 --> 01:10:11,640 you wanted Larry Markinen, would it have been easier to get him from the 1113 01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:15,600 Jazz at this year's trade deadline or over the off season? Don't even answer 1114 01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,239 it because it's not a real question. It's over the off season that's when 1115 01:10:18,279 --> 01:10:24,760 that stuff tends to develop. And you mentioned their cap space and the other 1116 01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,039 thing that they could do. I know everyone's gonna be focused on maybe they 1117 01:10:27,079 --> 01:10:30,439 still need to get bigger, but like you talked about this with Guinea, 1118 01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:33,399 but it's also dor Like if you're subbing out Gideon, it's going to be 1119 01:10:33,399 --> 01:10:36,640 an actual shooter. Honestly, how much bigger do they need to get? 1120 01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,760 Like, yeah, you're always gonna give up the deficit on the glass, 1121 01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:44,479 but if you playoff proof, you're spacing against defense, not even just the 1122 01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,760 shot making, because look Ja Dubbin Chet Holger and spoiler alert, they'll play 1123 01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:53,279 better. It'll happen if you're gonna preserve your spacing or put players on the 1124 01:10:53,359 --> 01:10:56,199 floor. We saw it a little bit with Isaiah Joe. But he's even 1125 01:10:56,239 --> 01:11:00,359 a guy where defenses are okay with just it's Isaiah Joe. It's not so 1126 01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,279 you're getting someone maybe it's a wing, but that's why it's if it was 1127 01:11:03,359 --> 01:11:08,199 og Nnobi as an example, you're not getting too much bigger like you. 1128 01:11:08,319 --> 01:11:10,600 Yeah, you're getting someone who could defend all five positions. I know that's 1129 01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:15,039 an exception, but you could get McHale Bridges and that will solve a lot 1130 01:11:15,119 --> 01:11:16,439 of your issue, not your rebounding one. But like, no team is 1131 01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,800 going to be perfect, and you, I honestly believe you're going to have 1132 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:27,600 to make concessions if you want to play five out to optimize Shay and j 1133 01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,800 Dubb Like, there's just gonna be concessions made. And yes, could you 1134 01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,359 get another big body through in those backup minutes? Sure? Who could make 1135 01:11:33,399 --> 01:11:35,680 reads in the center of the floor, be more of a roller than Chet 1136 01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:41,720 Holmgren. Sure they would not have helped you win this. They they would 1137 01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,960 have helped you, but they wouldn't have been the difference in this. Like 1138 01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:50,279 again a star sure, like but like Anthony Davis, Yeah, he might 1139 01:11:50,319 --> 01:11:55,560 have helped you win this series. Like Okay, like Icy take I don't 1140 01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,720 know who the name is for. I don't know if you've thought about names 1141 01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,359 for them, but I've I think they have so many options, not just 1142 01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:05,079 because of the apps assets and the cap space they have, but because that 1143 01:12:05,399 --> 01:12:11,159 what they need. It's been boiled down to they just need to get bigger 1144 01:12:11,199 --> 01:12:14,680 and more physical, and that's not true. Like, yes, it could 1145 01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,600 be an option, but like you have different avenues to explore, and I 1146 01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,840 think the bigger one. I think maybe a majority of Thunder fans maybe they're 1147 01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:25,600 not a get after the series, but they kind of there feels like a 1148 01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,279 weird We talked about the tib cycle earlier in the podcast. There's like this 1149 01:12:28,399 --> 01:12:31,159 weird on the court cycle with Josh Giddy where it's oh, he hits it, 1150 01:12:31,359 --> 01:12:33,760 like, oh no, he can't be on this team. So it's 1151 01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:35,920 oh, he's hitting enough of his threes and it's oh yeah, like you 1152 01:12:36,079 --> 01:12:39,840 just sign them and like figure out like to now it's oh no, no, 1153 01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,199 no, we see that's and by the way, that's the information you 1154 01:12:43,319 --> 01:12:48,039 needed that you couldn't have been sure of. Would the Josh Giddy fit Indoor 1155 01:12:48,199 --> 01:12:51,039 into the playoffs the way that it did during the regular season. The answer 1156 01:12:51,159 --> 01:12:55,680 is now know they know it for sure, build out your rotation, your 1157 01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:58,960 team from there. I know it's weird because he's extension eligible and we don't 1158 01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,319 really see guys on the rookie scales get moved like that normally. But like 1159 01:13:02,279 --> 01:13:05,119 you could throw I'm saying, I don't really have specific names, I think 1160 01:13:05,159 --> 01:13:10,000 because it could be so many different types of players, Like if they wanted 1161 01:13:10,039 --> 01:13:13,159 to get if they I mentioned addnob, they should absolutely just be hey, 1162 01:13:13,199 --> 01:13:15,000 we'll give you the max if you want to come here, just to put 1163 01:13:15,039 --> 01:13:18,079 pressure on the Knicks. If they wanted if Michael Bridges becomes available, uh, 1164 01:13:18,319 --> 01:13:21,439 if like they could get it doesn't doesn't do you think it needs to 1165 01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:26,319 be a star though? Are we talking about someone who's more like if they 1166 01:13:26,399 --> 01:13:30,439 got a top fifty player or something. Maybe that's even too ambitious. No, 1167 01:13:31,239 --> 01:13:36,000 sorry, I didn't mean to yell at you. So the guy and 1168 01:13:36,119 --> 01:13:40,119 this isn't like this name, he's his name, you said his name and 1169 01:13:40,239 --> 01:13:43,039 his name has been like this is the one for for I don't know. 1170 01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:47,000 Basically all year I think to me, it's marketing. Uh and and I 1171 01:13:47,079 --> 01:13:51,199 don't know, like well, I what I do know is that the thunder 1172 01:13:51,319 --> 01:13:56,000 have enough draft assets to put an offer on the table that Utah just can't 1173 01:13:56,039 --> 01:13:59,840 say no to. Like that that is, I don't know what it needs 1174 01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:02,079 to be, if you could make a gross overpay or what would seem like 1175 01:14:02,159 --> 01:14:04,560 it. But maybe that has been the point all along, is like we're 1176 01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:10,840 positioned now to just force the Jazz to trade us a guy that they want 1177 01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,880 to keep, and but they just like they can't look at this package of 1178 01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:18,159 assets and whatever salary you need to throw in there. Uh, they just 1179 01:14:18,199 --> 01:14:23,880 can't say no. The reason so the homegrown piece of it complicates things like 1180 01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:27,560 kind of in a good way, because I'm not I'm okay with going forward 1181 01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,720 with holmgrenn as your quote unquote loan big or as like as you're five a 1182 01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,479 the way he was a rookie this year and could it just be that playing 1183 01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:39,000 so many games caught up to him after not one never playing that many, 1184 01:14:39,039 --> 01:14:42,279 but also you're you had a year in which you just weren't playing and and 1185 01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,800 like he's an all defense caliber guy already, like you can you can the 1186 01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:47,479 rebounding sure, Like I don't know how you're gonna crack that, but I 1187 01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:50,159 think you're right in that you are just gonna have to make some concessions to 1188 01:14:50,199 --> 01:14:54,039 play the way you want to play to optimize the talent you have in that 1189 01:14:54,159 --> 01:14:57,039 might be one of them. The rebounding may just never improve, you could 1190 01:14:57,439 --> 01:14:59,479 they need. It's not like again, it's not like they need to get 1191 01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:01,880 like a better. They can get a little better at that stuff and then 1192 01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:04,720 maybe that's all it takes and you're in the conference finals and that's all you 1193 01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:09,199 can ask. So the reason I like marken In is he I mean he's 1194 01:15:09,239 --> 01:15:12,520 the anti Giddy in that like he's gonna be moving around off the ball. 1195 01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:16,119 He's a catch and shoot threat. He has the size though to you know, 1196 01:15:16,199 --> 01:15:18,199 he's not going to protect the rim, but like he'll get a few 1197 01:15:18,279 --> 01:15:24,560 more rebounds than you know, your standard running off screens three point shooting threat, 1198 01:15:25,199 --> 01:15:29,520 And like I just think defensively, you have enough elsewhere that if you're 1199 01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:32,680 concerned about Marketing's defense, like you could just hide him someplace. But it's 1200 01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,680 like it's nice to hide a guy that's seven foot that, you know, 1201 01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:39,560 as opposed to what do we do with Josh Giddy? What do we do 1202 01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:43,680 with Isaiah Joe? So just like getting the shooting and the size and the 1203 01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:47,000 upgrades. I do think like the Dort piece is really that's not your first 1204 01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:51,000 like option of like where are we upgrading? It's obviously the giddy spot, 1205 01:15:51,319 --> 01:15:57,640 But like if Cason Wallace can who already defensively is like he's not Dort, 1206 01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:01,439 but like he's real close for rookie, Like it's shocking how close he could 1207 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:05,439 potentially get to Dort's defensive level, like as soon as next year. And 1208 01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:09,439 if he's gonna shoot more threes, then like suddenly Dort is just like, 1209 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,399 well, now we're paying him too much for what we need him to do. 1210 01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:17,720 Uh So, I think Wallace developing could make some Dort decisions happen sooner 1211 01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:21,479 than later. Not that you have to do anything there, but I again, 1212 01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:26,119 like I think marken In is just the right piece for this team. 1213 01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,319 I think I would agree with you on marketing. Well, by the way, 1214 01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:32,760 there was some trolling done and I'm here for jokes, but oh, 1215 01:16:33,319 --> 01:16:38,119 the Thunder helped the Mavericks get gaffered, and again, Gaffer is not the 1216 01:16:38,199 --> 01:16:41,600 reason of Thunder loss series. They also helped him get Derek Lively. Yeah, 1217 01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,960 direct, I'm high enough. I did criticize that move from them in 1218 01:16:45,039 --> 01:16:46,119 the moment, but I'm high up, I'm case and wallis now where it's 1219 01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:50,079 okay, the thunder go on to win the title and Derek Wiley's like the 1220 01:16:50,119 --> 01:16:54,640 finals MVP. Okay, like we'd have the conversation there, but he wouldn't 1221 01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,720 have the same opportunity when you had Chet Holmgren. Ye see that he got 1222 01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:00,880 in Dallas. So it's not even pushback. I think why. I think 1223 01:17:01,359 --> 01:17:05,199 I believe that there's maybe a little bit more specificity to the search they need 1224 01:17:05,279 --> 01:17:10,159 to go on. You have Shay on this big deal, J dub and 1225 01:17:10,199 --> 01:17:13,760 Chet holmerun are gonna be on max Is if you want to this team to 1226 01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,640 realistically keep this core together, I don't think you can go get someone who's 1227 01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:21,079 either already on a mega deal or going to get a mega deal very soon, 1228 01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:26,119 unless it's the as Brian Windhurst calls it, the fun Max Thatwry Marketing 1229 01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,199 is going to get the not so fun Max. I mean, like good 1230 01:17:29,239 --> 01:17:30,239 for Lyar Marketing that he should. You might even get it from the Jazz 1231 01:17:30,239 --> 01:17:34,239 and a renegotiating extent. And that's why if you really wanted to criticize them, 1232 01:17:34,319 --> 01:17:39,960 not going to get PJ. Washington in the moment I thought the Maverick's 1233 01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,800 overpaid, and so I'm not using that, But that would be the guy 1234 01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,399 where it's okay, here's another two years, very reasonable number. That's why 1235 01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:48,800 Denny Ave is actually a guy that I keep coming back to to where like, 1236 01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:51,680 but maybe the shooting's not there enough. He could probably help you with 1237 01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:56,520 the rebounding and just the secondary playmaking. When things do bog down, you 1238 01:17:56,600 --> 01:18:00,600 almost need to find someone that has a few year left on their deal at 1239 01:18:01,199 --> 01:18:04,279 if it's not sub max money, then it's like near max money, or 1240 01:18:04,279 --> 01:18:08,560 someone who's only on that first max with time left, because you do have 1241 01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:12,479 to game this around your future. And the one thing I don't want to 1242 01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:14,159 hear though, is like, well, if you don't make these moves like 1243 01:18:14,199 --> 01:18:18,800 Shay's gonna agitate to get out. Here's my two thoughts on that the thunder 1244 01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:23,760 have made you act like they've wasted not you, not, not mister not 1245 01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:28,640 the fantabulous Grant Hues, anyone acting like they've somehow squandered Shay Gildess Alexander's prime. 1246 01:18:29,199 --> 01:18:31,279 It's just like they created it. They created its prime, by the 1247 01:18:31,319 --> 01:18:33,560 way, and they keep getting better, Like, yeah, there were the 1248 01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:38,279 two seasons where he shut down whatever. He always seemed on board at his 1249 01:18:38,359 --> 01:18:41,399 exit interviews. And now you're coming off of season where would you'd like to 1250 01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:45,640 beat the mav Sure, you finished with the one seed in the West and 1251 01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,039 came within two wins of making it. To like, if next season they 1252 01:18:48,079 --> 01:18:50,920 don't make the playoffs, and then he's gonna be unhappy because they didn't make 1253 01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:56,239 a move. But to have that discussion now and then that leads into this 1254 01:18:56,359 --> 01:19:00,640 whole. Yes, the other pushback I got was a windows are so short, 1255 01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,439 like you need to pre do you know why windows are short because teams 1256 01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:06,439 shortened them. Yeah, you make dumb moves before you should, right, 1257 01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:10,359 And yeah, there's sometimes stars want to get out. But right now, 1258 01:19:10,399 --> 01:19:14,039 if you're pointing to Shade Giljes Alexander agitating out, you're just you're living. 1259 01:19:14,159 --> 01:19:18,079 And that would be one of the most shocking trade requests like ever if that 1260 01:19:18,199 --> 01:19:23,960 happened anytime soon. And so like that goes back to the Nuggets. They 1261 01:19:24,039 --> 01:19:28,239 won a title because they gut it out and they didn't overreact, So I 1262 01:19:28,279 --> 01:19:30,640 think it's important to not Yes, we even said that we would have been 1263 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:33,520 on board if they made an aggressive move. The fact that they didn't is 1264 01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:36,680 not a cardinal sin. And hey, by the way, everyone, you 1265 01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:42,520 can go ahead and denigrate it now. It was pretty universally complimented when they 1266 01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,720 went out and got Gordon Hayward. He seemed disappointed in his role and maybe 1267 01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,279 they didn't give enough of an opportunity. But every time I watched him in 1268 01:19:48,319 --> 01:19:53,520 the Thunder, you got him so that he might put pressure on defenses. 1269 01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:56,279 Basically he just wasn't even looking at the basket most of the time. So 1270 01:19:56,479 --> 01:20:00,319 yeah, it's there's expectations, which I think this this reaction is good, 1271 01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:03,600 the over the top ones in the sense that it's great to thunder have these 1272 01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:09,880 expectations. It's fucking cool, But like, let's not veer too far away 1273 01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,840 from reality. I don't know who the specific player it is, and I 1274 01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:15,039 do think they're coming into some challenges. But if you're willing to pay through 1275 01:20:15,039 --> 01:20:17,560 the teeth, or if you want to play the figure it out later card 1276 01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:21,640 and go out and get lowry market and assume he's available, I'm all for 1277 01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:26,399 it. But the reality of the situation is you're not gonna have marketing. 1278 01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:30,439 Shay J. Dub and Ched Holmgren all on maxes at once in Okay, 1279 01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,239 see, and that's why they might need to be more particular in terms of 1280 01:20:33,279 --> 01:20:38,159 who they're seeking at here. Yeah, I think, like kind of ironically, 1281 01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:42,319 the fact that they have this cap space and all these assets like makes 1282 01:20:42,359 --> 01:20:45,880 the offseason like, I mean, it's good problem, but harder because like 1283 01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:49,319 if this team were didn't have the flexibility and it's like, well, this 1284 01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:53,039 roster will just be back next year, you'd be like, awesome, they're 1285 01:20:53,079 --> 01:20:56,039 gonna all get better. Like this is that there's no problems here. I 1286 01:20:56,119 --> 01:20:59,760 get, you know, maybe Giddy can develop enough as a three point shooter, 1287 01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:01,159 like, yeah, that's a problem, but the fact that they have 1288 01:21:01,359 --> 01:21:08,039 the means to go make real changes just I mean, I guess ultimately it's 1289 01:21:08,079 --> 01:21:11,840 a testament to like how intelligently this team was put together to where it can 1290 01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:15,800 be this good and you now the pressure is like how much better can you 1291 01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:19,560 make it? Like immediately, and they have the ability to do harder jump 1292 01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:24,960 to make yeah better than elite, Right, Yeah, they're already the one 1293 01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,960 seed, Like they already proved they were better than everyone in the conference over 1294 01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,079 the course of the year, and they were as close as you can get 1295 01:21:30,399 --> 01:21:33,920 just about to make. I don't know, it's just so again, they're 1296 01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:38,800 the third category of like nothing to be ashamed of, no reason to panic. 1297 01:21:39,159 --> 01:21:41,520 Of the teams that you can tell me, and I think we'd be 1298 01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:44,359 in agreement that their cap space is going to be more useful on the trademarket 1299 01:21:44,399 --> 01:21:46,520 than in free agency. Yeah. Probably. And also by the way, 1300 01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:49,119 they still have the roster crunch to like they're gonna have to. That's what 1301 01:21:49,199 --> 01:21:53,039 the crades also makes sense because you have to get rid of players still you're 1302 01:21:53,079 --> 01:21:58,119 in that timeline. But like if I told you they went and they added 1303 01:21:59,039 --> 01:22:01,640 Denny Avya or Kyle Kuzma or John Collins, I know a lot of people 1304 01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:05,319 were on the John Collins train too, you probably feel a lot better about 1305 01:22:05,399 --> 01:22:09,239 how this team is looking next to you. You haven't solved everything, but 1306 01:22:09,399 --> 01:22:13,960 you've gotten bigger. When you pull out Josh Giddy and I think the floor 1307 01:22:14,039 --> 01:22:16,880 spacing the Denny obvious stuff is just he just that the volume is so low. 1308 01:22:17,039 --> 01:22:21,000 But like in terms of John Collins and Kyle kuzm are just throwout nonstar 1309 01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:26,800 x like you would feel better about this team having gotten better and that might 1310 01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:31,039 actually make all the difference to them because they have the bones yeah, of 1311 01:22:31,159 --> 01:22:35,159 this team that can contend. And I just can't understand being mad that they 1312 01:22:35,239 --> 01:22:41,399 didn't go all in on a move that didn't exist. There was someone there 1313 01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:43,000 was actually a couple that said, well, like, this is a really 1314 01:22:43,079 --> 01:22:45,640 hard question to answer. When I posed that, I was like, no, 1315 01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:47,079 fuck, that's a hard question to answer me, Like, that's what 1316 01:22:47,199 --> 01:22:50,239 needs to go and we're I'm guilty of it too when we're grading the trade 1317 01:22:50,279 --> 01:22:54,000 deadlines, like, well, why didn't tam X do this right? It 1318 01:22:54,159 --> 01:22:56,960 wasn't out there, and yes, the thunder can create their own trade market, 1319 01:22:57,039 --> 01:23:00,199 but then would you have like been on board with them giving up two 1320 01:23:00,239 --> 01:23:02,279 first round picks for Pig? I just I can't well, and like, 1321 01:23:03,039 --> 01:23:09,039 just to illustrate how unlikely. So Dallas made the most post the biggest trade 1322 01:23:09,039 --> 01:23:11,640 that impacted the post the trades, I guess if you want to split Gaffer 1323 01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:15,640 in Washington up in terms of postseason impact, like by far the biggest in 1324 01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:18,199 season trades of any team still still playing, right unless I'm yeah, like 1325 01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:20,720 was like just a bit. I mean, James aren't to the Cluippers, 1326 01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:26,199 but like, and then at the deadline there's a seems all going. We 1327 01:23:26,319 --> 01:23:29,520 hated it. We hated it. We thought that's too much, that wasn't 1328 01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:32,319 worth your few limited draft assets, like neither Washington or Gaffer it gives you 1329 01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:38,199 enough that's different or better or anything. And that's just an illustration of like, 1330 01:23:38,359 --> 01:23:42,079 so if the Thunder had done that, we probably would have been like 1331 01:23:42,399 --> 01:23:45,159 it would have been different because they have just this trove of draft just shit 1332 01:23:45,239 --> 01:23:49,800 on fires, like yeah, so we would have been less probably probably less 1333 01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:53,239 down on it had it in the Thunder. But that's just all to say. 1334 01:23:53,319 --> 01:23:56,159 Like even the trade that now looks like, oh my god, can 1335 01:23:56,239 --> 01:23:58,840 you believe they were able to do it at the time, was like that 1336 01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:00,720 was done by Dallas. It seemed dumb. It seemed like the wrong move 1337 01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:05,119 because I think I'm sure, I said, even if this works out great, 1338 01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:10,399 just the what Dallas has now is not good enough to begin with for 1339 01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,880 like someone like the best versions of Washington and Gafford to put him over the 1340 01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:16,479 top, and like that was wrong on well every count, I guess. 1341 01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:19,560 So we were both just thrown me in there. We were both right. 1342 01:24:20,199 --> 01:24:25,479 But that's just to say, like anyone clan like maybe this just tie all 1343 01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:28,800 the way back to what you were saying, like anyone clamoring for the thunder 1344 01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:31,640 to have pulled off, Like whether it's that trade for those players specifically or 1345 01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:35,199 something else. It's just like, I just don't think there was a no 1346 01:24:35,319 --> 01:24:40,159 brainer or anything close to it out there, And I think and it's I 1347 01:24:40,239 --> 01:24:42,760 think the discussion is fair. So everyone, I've referenced that there was no 1348 01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:45,479 one specifically because all the responses were in the same vein. Although there was 1349 01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:47,479 one specific response, Remember who was saying, well, maybe the players they 1350 01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:50,680 gave away for Gordon Hayward could have help. And I was like Davas Breton's 1351 01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:53,720 and Trey Man, like, what are we doing here? Like no, 1352 01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:58,560 so, but it's a discussion to have. But this idea that they needed 1353 01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:01,840 to do it or they fucked up royally by not doing it, That's where 1354 01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:05,640 I really was. That's why I was honestly surprised at the response I got. 1355 01:25:06,279 --> 01:25:10,840 And so they just have a bunch of draft picks, thirty five plust 1356 01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:13,560 million cap space, and the best team in the Western Conference during the regular 1357 01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:16,000 season, Like that's a pretty good starting point to be there. You mentioned 1358 01:25:16,039 --> 01:25:19,239 the MAVs though, you want to talk to MAVs Wolves. What's the biggest 1359 01:25:19,319 --> 01:25:23,279 thing you're looking for for this series? If there any takeaways you have for 1360 01:25:23,359 --> 01:25:26,640 the previous one with Minnesota or whatever, But what's just the biggest thing you're 1361 01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:29,720 watching with this series? Yeah, I guess I haven't given it a ton 1362 01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:35,399 of thought. I think so Minnesota had a lot of success keeping Gobert out 1363 01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:42,680 of like primary actions defensively, and I'm trying to imagine how easy that will 1364 01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:45,640 be for them to do against Dallas, because obviously what Dallas would love is 1365 01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:49,560 to involve Gobert in like every high screen for Luca and just kind of see 1366 01:25:50,039 --> 01:25:54,119 how he can pick that apart. So does that mean? So I guess 1367 01:25:54,159 --> 01:25:57,640 that's the matchup I'm watching is like where is Gobert gonna be? And then 1368 01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:02,640 will it be possible on off for Dallas to find him to make or at 1369 01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:06,079 least make Minnesota have to mess around with some stuff kind of like Denver did, 1370 01:26:06,319 --> 01:26:09,600 Like oh, eron Gordon's gonna handle now, so go Beart is gonna 1371 01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,319 be involved for a couple of games there, and then I guess that just 1372 01:26:12,399 --> 01:26:15,479 wasn't as big of a part going forward in the rest of that series, 1373 01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:19,039 So that that particular matchup, that particular interplay, because I do think, 1374 01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:25,600 like, I mean, odds are Dallas is gonna be able to defend I 1375 01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:30,520 think reasonably well against Minnesota's offense, which, by the way, like wasn't 1376 01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:34,199 very good for most of that series against Denver. So I think I think 1377 01:26:34,279 --> 01:26:38,560 the other side, what is Denver? I mean, it's what does Minnesota 1378 01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:44,119 do with Luca, specifically with with Gobert. Yeah, so mind semi related 1379 01:26:44,119 --> 01:26:45,560 to that, but it's also what you mentioned too, is if if Derek 1380 01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:48,760 Jones Junior and PJ. Washington, because those are the two guys that I 1381 01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:51,560 think you could say, all right, like hide go bear on them and 1382 01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:54,840 then maybe the maps decide to have use one of them as the screener. 1383 01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:57,399 But then you can just stick go bear on the other one and like peel 1384 01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:00,239 off or whatever. If they're just shooting threes like the way that they were, 1385 01:27:00,319 --> 01:27:02,600 then it's okay. Well, then like what the fuck do we do? 1386 01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:05,239 Yeah, because it's not even we don't even need to involve them in 1387 01:27:05,239 --> 01:27:09,279 the primary action, Like playing Gobar off of them is going to be problematic, 1388 01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:13,800 right, So Karl Anthony Towns, which first of all, they are 1389 01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:16,239 like ninety different Karl Anthony Towns agendas and depending on the day, like one 1390 01:27:16,279 --> 01:27:19,359 of them is pending out what it's I just it's really cool. I know, 1391 01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:21,680 we don't necessarily go into this sentiment all the time. It's just really 1392 01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:26,319 fucking cool to see him here just kind of like the loan holdover in Minnesota, 1393 01:27:26,399 --> 01:27:30,479 through all this shit and turmoil and just what's been looking at not only 1394 01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:32,239 the stuff he's gone through, the death or a parent during COVID and all 1395 01:27:32,319 --> 01:27:38,479 that and having but just like people questioning whether or not even questioning, but 1396 01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:41,760 they've just just even I can even loop us into this maybe a little bit, 1397 01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:45,000 like they just decided that he's eventually going to be traded because of his 1398 01:27:45,079 --> 01:27:49,239 contract after the go Bear trade and it was and sorry and because well, 1399 01:27:49,399 --> 01:27:53,199 I mean, he's so imperfect, like he's not worth this money. They 1400 01:27:53,239 --> 01:27:55,800 don't need him like that, that kind of thing. It's not just the 1401 01:27:55,920 --> 01:28:00,199 money. It's like he's got all these issues that to this point and have 1402 01:28:00,359 --> 01:28:03,359 like not been real helpful in the postseason and so and so that redemptive angle 1403 01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:06,000 is big too. And I will say this might be this is a little 1404 01:28:06,039 --> 01:28:09,800 hypocritical because I could say the same thing about Julius random, like his post 1405 01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:13,760 he's in sample before this year is like eleven games. It's just like, 1406 01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:15,960 hey, maybe if he's on a better team that plays longer, he'll have 1407 01:28:16,039 --> 01:28:19,960 more trademark moments like he did in Game seven, and he was really good 1408 01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:25,199 defensively at points throughout that series. I'm wondering if it gets harder to do 1409 01:28:25,319 --> 01:28:29,800 that against Dallas because their offense is never gonna be running. Like part of 1410 01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:32,479 what I think the appeal of him going up against Jokic's is that he's not 1411 01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:35,880 facing up and like trying to drive by you all the time. He's either 1412 01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:40,760 going to operate out of the post or from stan Still's elbows all that stuff, 1413 01:28:41,119 --> 01:28:43,840 and that should be easier to guard than if one you stick him on 1414 01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:46,119 Dallas is big all of a sudden, he's just in space a lot more 1415 01:28:46,159 --> 01:28:49,920 against if you're switching, you're gonna have him like having to make decisions in 1416 01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:55,159 space, or if there's a guy like Derek Lively who is like maybe able 1417 01:28:55,199 --> 01:28:58,680 to get past him on those roles of the basket. I'm wondering if does 1418 01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,800 this become a series where where we see more of like the Nikhil Alexander Walker 1419 01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:06,920 plus the starters variation. Because of that, I know Dallas is still super 1420 01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:10,920 huge, but they're still only right now unless Maxie Cleeb was gonna come back, 1421 01:29:11,279 --> 01:29:14,840 kind of playing with one big and so what does is there any sort 1422 01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:17,479 of matchup, you know, puzzling out that they need to do there? 1423 01:29:17,720 --> 01:29:20,479 You also do though, because you mentioned their offense, I think it becomes 1424 01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:26,279 a lot more important on the offensive end in this series. Just you're gonna 1425 01:29:26,319 --> 01:29:30,159 need someone who's you know that Dallas has these two dynamo scores in Kyrie Ring 1426 01:29:30,199 --> 01:29:33,199 and Luga Dancic, And yes they both haven't really been scoring a ton of 1427 01:29:33,239 --> 01:29:36,359 Dncic is dealing with that that knee injury, but like you're gonna need, 1428 01:29:36,399 --> 01:29:40,840 there's gonna just be a night where those two go off for the Mavericks have 1429 01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,520 another worldly offensive performance. Can you kind of float? It's just easier to 1430 01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:49,000 count on someone who's a good three point shooter rather than can Jane McDaniels continue 1431 01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:51,359 to go off on it, like which one are you gonna lean on more? 1432 01:29:51,439 --> 01:29:54,920 When they need a night where it has to be I don't want to 1433 01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:58,039 call it a shootout, but we need to have a more dynamic offense because 1434 01:29:58,039 --> 01:30:00,680 I think what's interesting about this series is Dallas to me, has the higher 1435 01:30:00,760 --> 01:30:06,600 offensive ceiling and then Minnesota has the lower offensive floor. But if these two 1436 01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:10,520 teams are hitting their floors, like if that's where they're at on offense, 1437 01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:15,680 Minnesota is better equipped to win while hitting their offensive floor more so than Dallas 1438 01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:17,560 is. Even though we kind of did see they still needed like Luca in 1439 01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:20,720 that Game six to be like have a really good performance and so as good 1440 01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:26,199 as their defense is, I still think they are more reliant on their offense 1441 01:30:26,279 --> 01:30:30,720 sniffing its peak or just a higher peak relative to this series than Minnesota will 1442 01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:36,479 be. Do you think we'll see some of the same tactics with respect to 1443 01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:42,479 Anthony Edwards that Denver use, which is like super aggressive, consistent, get 1444 01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:45,439 it out of his hands, doubles and just the second defenders there right away. 1445 01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:53,119 Do you think that that Dallas will view the rest of Minnesota's offense with 1446 01:30:53,199 --> 01:30:56,960 as much disdain as Denver did, is like, let let's let's see you 1447 01:30:57,039 --> 01:31:00,079 beat us type of thing. Do you do you think that they have, 1448 01:31:00,199 --> 01:31:02,800 because I think what's interesting about the team that Denver is built is what they're 1449 01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:05,560 able to do when they scrambled defensively for the most part, do you think 1450 01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:11,119 that Dallas as good as they've been defensively? But like, are PG Washington 1451 01:31:11,159 --> 01:31:14,119 and Derek Jones Junior? And then you're gonna have to rely on like where 1452 01:31:14,199 --> 01:31:16,720 where are you? Who is so Derek Jones Junior is on Anthony Edwards is 1453 01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:19,439 the primary guy, which I think would be I'm sure they'll be split between 1454 01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:24,520 him and PJ. Blake. Where are you sending the help from? And 1455 01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:27,600 then are you trusting your defense to kind of? I mean, look Dallas's 1456 01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:29,479 close outs by the way. On That's the other thing. I know the 1457 01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:32,920 thunder didn't shoot well from three, but like I want like more specific tracking 1458 01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:36,039 data than we have available because I'm just convinced that like maybe five percent of 1459 01:31:36,079 --> 01:31:40,640 Oklahoma City's three pointers should be count as wide open because they were kind of 1460 01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:44,760 scrambling around. I just wonder are they because you have Gordon and KCP, 1461 01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:47,359 even Murray when he's at his peak, and of course like if not my 1462 01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:51,800 like Christian Brown, like having that lever to pull, like is Dallas built 1463 01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:57,399 to do that as often? Because there they felt more And it's not really 1464 01:31:57,439 --> 01:32:00,680 an insult, it's just the way they're built. Like they felt more like 1465 01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:02,800 if we're gonna pack the paint, like they're better built to do that than 1466 01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:06,960 like we're gonna scramble around the perimeter. Yeah, I think Dallas did such 1467 01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:12,000 a good job of We talked about this after whichever I can't remember which game 1468 01:32:12,039 --> 01:32:15,279 in the series, but like it seemed like the only open threes that okay 1469 01:32:15,319 --> 01:32:17,920 See was getting were like quote unquote open threes were like Dort would get one 1470 01:32:18,079 --> 01:32:21,399 like a pump fake fly by reload three. So I feels like he took 1471 01:32:21,399 --> 01:32:25,920 a million of those and then giddy was being left. I wonder if they 1472 01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:30,720 can do that against Minnesota, especially like if you may have some lineups where 1473 01:32:31,039 --> 01:32:33,880 there's definitely gonna be one spacing big and there might be two. If you 1474 01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:38,600 ever have any any read cap minutes, like how easy is it going to 1475 01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:43,479 be to dictate which shooters are getting those shots from three if you are putting 1476 01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:46,479 two on the ball and like kind of inviting a three with enough swing passes 1477 01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:49,600 as you're trying to rotate and just can't keep up with the ball. I 1478 01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:54,119 don't know. It's on one hand, it seems to me like, well, 1479 01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:59,640 I mean the Thunders offense is better than Minnesota's, and Dallas was good 1480 01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:03,159 enough against that offense. So why can't Dallas totally shut down Minnesota? Like 1481 01:33:03,399 --> 01:33:06,159 isn't that? I mean, you know, if things go sideways for Minnesota, 1482 01:33:06,199 --> 01:33:11,199 it's always because they can't score. And Dallas did an awesome job against 1483 01:33:11,239 --> 01:33:14,359 a good offense. It's packing the paint, just forcing the kind of shots 1484 01:33:14,359 --> 01:33:16,079 they wanted to concede from the shooters they wanted to shoot them, Like, 1485 01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:19,359 I don't know stands the reason they should be able to do that against Minnesota. 1486 01:33:19,399 --> 01:33:23,399 I don't know if that's how it'll play out, because maybe Edwards with 1487 01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:27,720 just more reps against the same type of coverage will just improve with you know, 1488 01:33:28,399 --> 01:33:31,399 but that's kind of that's I guess. The first thing I'm thinking of 1489 01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:35,279 now, beyond the go bet stuff, is like, what's Dallas gonna do? 1490 01:33:35,399 --> 01:33:41,319 And maybe the answer is Luca that offensively that is gonna, you know, 1491 01:33:41,439 --> 01:33:45,560 yield a bunch more success. I'm sorry that Minnesota is gonna do offensively 1492 01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:49,680 that'll yield more success against Dallas. That defense to just like, I don't 1493 01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:54,239 know, I keep saying it's legit. The defense is a real series prediction. 1494 01:33:56,479 --> 01:34:02,319 I think I have to go Minnesota in seven. That's my I think 1495 01:34:02,359 --> 01:34:06,640 that's my pick too. If it's a short series, could you see it 1496 01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:11,520 being a short series where Dallas wins it, Like, I don't see a 1497 01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,680 short series of Minnesota win. But I could imagine that Lusoda is just so 1498 01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:19,039 brutalized from that Denver series that and like some letdown, and and Luca just 1499 01:34:19,199 --> 01:34:24,119 being like what if Luca's fully healthy? Like that's the other thing is he 1500 01:34:24,239 --> 01:34:27,720 was banged up throughout that time comes back there. I think that Tim Cato 1501 01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:29,760 the Athletics said that's a chance. I mean, he had just had a 1502 01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:31,560 shoulder injury, so that would be. Yeah, those are tricky to come 1503 01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:34,760 back from right away. But if it was honestly, if it was a 1504 01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:38,439 shorter series, I would think that Minnesota won it. Yeah. I just 1505 01:34:40,239 --> 01:34:43,159 like what they did defense. Obviously you did them rhetorically, like what they 1506 01:34:43,239 --> 01:34:45,239 did in the second half. I'm trying to think of a better half of 1507 01:34:45,399 --> 01:34:49,680 defense I saw played by a team and even just man, that series was 1508 01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,760 so fucking what the Denver defense in the first half that was totally unrelated to 1509 01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:59,279 this series. But I I think Minnesota is the better team, but like 1510 01:34:59,359 --> 01:35:02,159 there's this is going to force I think this playoff push if he has a 1511 01:35:02,239 --> 01:35:06,079 really good conference finals, especially if they win, it'll it'll feel like one 1512 01:35:06,119 --> 01:35:10,560 of those not that he should have won it over Nicole Jokich or Shake Gilli 1513 01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:14,039 Tugsander this year, but like if they go to the finals, Luka doncons 1514 01:35:14,039 --> 01:35:16,600 can almost be pentled in for MVP next year because it's just like that's a 1515 01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:20,760 validation of everyone was worried if he was too heliocentric or ran out of time 1516 01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:24,159 to catch up to Jokic, and it kind of felt like we got that 1517 01:35:24,279 --> 01:35:27,319 way with like got to a point with yokicch like that even though he won 1518 01:35:27,399 --> 01:35:30,880 his MVP before they they reached the finals. So if you told me it 1519 01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:33,520 was a short series, I think I would just lean Minnesota because their defense 1520 01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:38,560 is as good as Dallas as defense is. I almost think Minnesota wants to 1521 01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:41,119 win ugly. And there's still I mentioned this already, there's still that level 1522 01:35:41,119 --> 01:35:45,039 of dependence from the MAVs perspective of like we need to have these offensive detonations 1523 01:35:45,199 --> 01:35:50,239 to edge you out. And also just like this wouldn't have been true if 1524 01:35:50,239 --> 01:35:53,960 we said in the regular season. I think you could eat more easily envisioned 1525 01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:56,600 leading into the series based off what we had seen, saying, yeah, 1526 01:35:56,600 --> 01:36:00,760 I could see Dallas outperforming OKAC on defense. Idea of Dallas outperforming Minnesota on 1527 01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:04,960 defense tough, very tough, very tough. Yeah, I just the high 1528 01:36:05,079 --> 01:36:10,960 the levels that Minnesota hit against Denver were so high, like and they they 1529 01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:14,119 weren't there all the time, but they're high highs where just this team looks 1530 01:36:14,199 --> 01:36:16,560 unbeatable. Basically it's you know, they didn't sustain it, but it was 1531 01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:20,359 enough to beat the defending champs. Like yeah, I just I don't know, 1532 01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:25,439 man, the defenses are both like it basically going into this series, 1533 01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:30,520 it's almost impossible for me to imagine either offense like being halfway decent just because 1534 01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:32,720 the defenses were so good. Do you think that'd be you though, Like 1535 01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:36,039 I'm with you. I wonder if I feel differently if Luca had played differently 1536 01:36:36,119 --> 01:36:39,720 to this point where it was just like there's clearly something up with his knee 1537 01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:42,439 and he's only kind of had like a here and there, like a semi 1538 01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:45,840 trademark Luca game. Yeah, you want to talk to the East, I 1539 01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:48,880 mean, I feel like this will be short. Uh. And by the 1540 01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:53,640 way, I just want to reampasize how wrong we collectively were on the matters. 1541 01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:55,960 We're we're not picking them to win this series. That's probably good for 1542 01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:58,840 their fans because we picked we picked against him in the first round. Two. 1543 01:36:59,199 --> 01:37:00,680 No, we picked them the beat the Clippers. But I can't remember, 1544 01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:02,880 but I definitely didn't pick him to beat the Thunder. I know that. 1545 01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:06,880 No, I didn't pick them to beat the Thunder either, So Pacers 1546 01:37:08,319 --> 01:37:12,039 Celtics, I I didn't see. It was funny how and I get it 1547 01:37:12,119 --> 01:37:15,000 to extent how Pacers fans were basking and no one picked them to beat the 1548 01:37:15,039 --> 01:37:16,800 Knicks, And I was like, yeah, they probably deserved this victory lap. 1549 01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:20,199 But at the end of the day, like you beat like close to 1550 01:37:20,279 --> 01:37:27,000 the GV Marshal all those injuries, Yeah, I mean you gotta like look, 1551 01:37:27,359 --> 01:37:30,439 by the way, we didn't talk at all about the Pacers basically like 1552 01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:34,920 playing one of the best offensive postseason games anybody's ever played Alibert and just you 1553 01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:39,680 know, he continues to like finding his shots a big one, but he's 1554 01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:43,600 also throughout that series the way he was able to kind of toggle between existences 1555 01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:45,359 where we've framed it. At some point it's like, oh, is he 1556 01:37:45,439 --> 01:37:47,479 being too passive? And it's like, does he just understand the balance that 1557 01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:50,199 he needs to strike because of Sakham and if they want to play a bunch 1558 01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:55,239 of TJ. McConnell and it's he was playing chess and we were thinking about 1559 01:37:55,279 --> 01:37:57,840 checkers. That seems like what it was. Also, just give me the 1560 01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:00,640 guy that you have that is so good as a facilitator and so hardwired to 1561 01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:04,399 do that that you need to coax into shooting more than the alternative, Like 1562 01:38:04,479 --> 01:38:08,520 the guy you got to rein in and like make him try to make teammates 1563 01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:12,800 better, Like having the having the hardwiring of I need to get the best 1564 01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:15,680 possible shots for the other four guys is like it's gonna take you. I'm 1565 01:38:15,720 --> 01:38:18,920 into that. It's gonna take you a long way. I think, like 1566 01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:24,479 I just can't sorry, We're I'm just gonna be very direct about it. 1567 01:38:25,239 --> 01:38:28,680 Even if Porzingis doesn't play, If Porzingis is healthy, he's gonna miss games 1568 01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:31,279 one and two at least, it seems like if he's healthy, then like 1569 01:38:31,600 --> 01:38:36,680 I just I'm it's like a five game series stops. I think. But 1570 01:38:36,920 --> 01:38:41,359 like if he's not. I could see the Pacers getting a couple just because 1571 01:38:41,359 --> 01:38:45,520 the offensive level they can hit is really really high. But the Celtics just 1572 01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:49,800 they're just better that Like, what how do we keep doing this every series? 1573 01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:53,960 It's like I don't know, I don't know what are the Pacers gonna 1574 01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:59,079 do? Certainly offensively, because that's where you have to start evaluating them, 1575 01:38:59,119 --> 01:39:03,800 because that's how they find themselves other than run that is really gonna give Boston 1576 01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:06,560 like, oh my god, Like what what do we do about this? 1577 01:39:08,079 --> 01:39:10,640 Like because you might say, well, Siakam against Smalls, it's like, 1578 01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:14,079 well, he's gonna have Tatum or Brown and help. So it's not quite 1579 01:39:14,119 --> 01:39:17,680 the same thing as going against de Vincenzo or Hart or whatever other like undersized 1580 01:39:18,039 --> 01:39:23,239 combo guard or wing. There is plenty of guys that throw at Haliburton. 1581 01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:27,479 You can you can be really switchy if you want to. You can trap 1582 01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:31,560 if you want to, and have guys on Boston's backline fly around offensively. 1583 01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:35,199 If you flip it, I guess, like you know, porzingis not being 1584 01:39:35,279 --> 01:39:41,399 there as a switch killer might make it so that Boston gets into the worst 1585 01:39:41,439 --> 01:39:44,239 habits that it has where it's just pounding the dribble and shooting threes. But 1586 01:39:44,319 --> 01:39:48,560 like Indiana has had two like beat up opponents, they beat them, but 1587 01:39:49,159 --> 01:39:55,600 Boston is just a different a different thing. Yeah, I would with any 1588 01:39:55,800 --> 01:39:59,720 So I'm wondering. I guess their biggest I thought their biggest weapon would be 1589 01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:03,079 their ability to attack defenses when they're not set, but then that's still also 1590 01:40:03,159 --> 01:40:05,720 the way that they defend in the bodies that they have right now. It's 1591 01:40:06,199 --> 01:40:10,840 well them ensuring that they're going to be in transition enough to really take advantage 1592 01:40:10,840 --> 01:40:15,000 of Boston means that they need to defend well enough for Boston to misshots, 1593 01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:17,640 and they're just not going to And so it comes down to again, is 1594 01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:20,640 there going to be that shot making variance from the Celtics to where it makes 1595 01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:24,479 it easier for the Pacers to get out and run. And we know that 1596 01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:28,359 they'll run no matter what. But Boston had the best transition defensive league during 1597 01:40:28,399 --> 01:40:31,600 the regular season and was second in limiting opponent frequency in transition. They are 1598 01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:35,640 now first in the postseason of limiting opponent transition frequency. I know that they 1599 01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:39,600 have not played the best level of competition here, but like they did play 1600 01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:43,920 the version of the calv that is built to move faster and shoot more threes. 1601 01:40:44,680 --> 01:40:47,359 I don't want to diminish what the Pacers have done to get here. 1602 01:40:47,479 --> 01:40:50,319 And I also think it's cool this is both the Mavericks and the Pacers. 1603 01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:56,039 I like seeing teams being rewarded for making me aggressive moves where it's like they 1604 01:40:56,079 --> 01:40:59,920 went out and got Siakam. And you could say if the Pacers don't want 1605 01:40:59,920 --> 01:41:01,760 to touch their core because they think they're finished product and they're very much going 1606 01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:04,600 to read into this like the Hawks did in twenty twenty one or whatever that 1607 01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:08,640 was when they reached the conference finals. I get that concern, but them 1608 01:41:08,760 --> 01:41:11,399 getting here, all you can do is play the teams in front of you, 1609 01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:14,159 and it's just you. Siaka was a big part of them winning that. 1610 01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:15,640 So I like kind of seeing these teams. It's the same thing with 1611 01:41:15,720 --> 01:41:18,840 dow As. You were rewarded because there was no way we would have picked 1612 01:41:18,880 --> 01:41:21,199 either of these teams. We didn't pick either of them to make the conference 1613 01:41:21,239 --> 01:41:26,560 finals after they made the trades. No, I don't. This series is 1614 01:41:26,640 --> 01:41:29,960 just I can't spend the brain power on it unless we get to a Game 1615 01:41:30,039 --> 01:41:31,960 six or something, and so I'll throw it to you this way, what 1616 01:41:32,119 --> 01:41:36,399 is more likely in your mind that the Pacers are swept or the Pacers get 1617 01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:41,039 to a game six? Ooh, if you're dead seven, I would have 1618 01:41:41,119 --> 01:41:44,199 definitely said the sweep was more likely. Why didn't say seven? Six? 1619 01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:49,640 That's why you're a master? Six is like, oh, man, I 1620 01:41:49,760 --> 01:41:56,880 guess I I can't say sweep, just I can't say sweeps more likely. 1621 01:41:57,039 --> 01:42:00,199 I think Boston is Boston just has a shit game in it. It's just 1622 01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:03,800 I feel like that's it's a given, and so I'll say it's more likely 1623 01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:09,000 that it goes six, and and that really has more to do with Boston 1624 01:42:09,079 --> 01:42:11,479 than Indiana, I think, which is like, again, I feel like 1625 01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:15,760 we're just being totally dismissive, and I'm sorry about it, but uh I 1626 01:42:15,199 --> 01:42:23,119 we've seen Boston in two series that probably should have been sweeps, just you 1627 01:42:23,239 --> 01:42:25,840 know, not quite pull it, pull it off, like sweeps are kind 1628 01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:29,199 of sweeps are hard, especially at like this level. So I guess it's 1629 01:42:29,199 --> 01:42:30,920 six. Do you it's got to you? Do you think it's six? 1630 01:42:30,039 --> 01:42:32,399 Right? You don't think it's more likely a Boston sweeps? Dude? Yeah? 1631 01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:35,880 I think the way that their offense can bog down sometimes and they just 1632 01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:39,800 get to these points they're all of a sudden operating for low percentage, looks 1633 01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:44,000 late in the shock clock. I just don't I don't understand it. So 1634 01:42:44,079 --> 01:42:45,720 I could see them, So you have that. And then if they're just 1635 01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:49,079 there's a night where they're missing threes, like the Pacers have the offense just 1636 01:42:49,239 --> 01:42:51,920 blow them out of the building. And then what if Porzingis comes back in 1637 01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:55,920 game three doesn't kind of look the same, there's a learning curve for him 1638 01:42:55,960 --> 01:42:58,199 to come back? Is that a game at the Pacers they'll be at home 1639 01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:00,640 that they're just able to steal. So I definitely think it's six. And 1640 01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:05,720 I was actually gonna ask you with christophs Porzingis and it sounds a little stupid 1641 01:43:05,760 --> 01:43:11,359 because of his rim protection, but like, are the Pacers? Are the 1642 01:43:11,439 --> 01:43:15,319 Celtics better equipped? They're better equipped to defend Indiana with one big than they 1643 01:43:15,319 --> 01:43:17,359 are with both of their biggs on the court, right, And so like 1644 01:43:17,479 --> 01:43:21,079 christophs Porzingis coming back would add an interesting wrinkle to that where would they more 1645 01:43:21,119 --> 01:43:25,800 aggressively stagger him and al which they do already, but like, would they 1646 01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:29,840 more aggressively stagger it? Even though there's a Siakam and Turner on the court 1647 01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:31,319 a lot of the time for the Pacers. Yeah, I think that's probably 1648 01:43:31,439 --> 01:43:34,880 right, because if they're both out there, I guess I think we not. 1649 01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:39,600 I guess you'd surely put Al Horford on Siakam because he's gonna move his 1650 01:43:39,680 --> 01:43:43,520 feet better and it be more comfortable in screen actions. But then you still 1651 01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:46,199 have Porzingis all the way out on Turner, So like that's not that's not 1652 01:43:46,319 --> 01:43:49,640 ideal, that's not the best use of him. Probably, So I mean 1653 01:43:49,720 --> 01:43:51,920 that's we didn't really talk about that. We don't need to get too deep 1654 01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:55,720 in the weeds. But like if it if it is one big across the 1655 01:43:55,800 --> 01:44:00,479 board and it's Porzingis on Turner, I mean maybe you try to find someone 1656 01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:02,000 you put Porzingis on, like Nie Smith or something, and he gets to 1657 01:44:02,159 --> 01:44:05,960 roam and you figure out Jason Tatum is on Turner or something something like that. 1658 01:44:06,159 --> 01:44:12,760 Like that's the cross matching with the big specific specifically should be interesting. 1659 01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:16,560 I just think like Porzingis is so vaud and like, look, another reason 1660 01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:19,479 that the Celtics might lose a game here is because they're like in their heart 1661 01:44:19,479 --> 01:44:23,439 of hearts are like we're not really in danger, and we might there might 1662 01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:27,479 be some let up at some point. But Porzingis I think is really important 1663 01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:32,359 because he just keeps them from their worst instincts sometimes because like you can't ignore 1664 01:44:32,439 --> 01:44:35,119 the seven foot three guy that's posting up on a switch against the six to 1665 01:44:35,159 --> 01:44:39,439 four guard, Like you have to throw it to him, and that keeps 1666 01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:43,399 you from doing the Boston stuff that we don't like. The other thing I 1667 01:44:43,439 --> 01:44:46,000 can't get over to is how I won't even say hard it's impossible to kind 1668 01:44:46,000 --> 01:44:49,960 of hide Haliburton defensively in this series. Right, that's a great point. 1669 01:44:50,439 --> 01:44:55,720 Yeah, what do you do with him? Like Jalen Brown? Jaylen Brown's 1670 01:44:55,720 --> 01:44:58,359 gonna eat him alive. I'm gonna put him in the basket. I don't 1671 01:44:58,399 --> 01:45:00,880 know what you do with them. That's like I feel so bad saying about 1672 01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:01,960 the pace or they deserve to be here. They beat the teams that were 1673 01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:05,319 in front of them. I just I couldn't envision them winning the Bucks series. 1674 01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:10,560 I couldn't vision them winning the nixt series. I can't even come up 1675 01:45:10,600 --> 01:45:14,039 with a semi plausible scenario in which they win this series and that look, 1676 01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:16,800 that'll be good and it'll have information of what they need to. I am 1677 01:45:17,239 --> 01:45:20,079 part of me though, for all the conspiracy theorist assholes out there, I 1678 01:45:20,159 --> 01:45:25,039 want to see like a Minnesota Indiana Finals that they the NBA is always get 1679 01:45:25,079 --> 01:45:29,479 a shoehorn. One massive market in there. Yeah, but besides the point, 1680 01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:35,039 yeah, one all Midwest final. So prediction, I'll go Boston in 1681 01:45:35,159 --> 01:45:42,520 five. I'll go I just want to say Boston in six to be spicy, 1682 01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:45,399 but like, it's Boston in five, do you think if it is 1683 01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:48,439 Boston in five, do you think it's better knowing the gauntlet the other teams 1684 01:45:48,479 --> 01:45:51,039 in the West World had to go through to if it's Dallas or Minnesota. 1685 01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:56,279 Is it beneficial to them that they didn't, that they didn't have to play 1686 01:45:56,279 --> 01:45:59,279 as many games and so like their bodies are, in theory just more well 1687 01:45:59,359 --> 01:46:01,960 rested. Or is it better? Is it worse because they haven't. Yeah, 1688 01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:06,119 they've maybe taken some team's best punches, but it's like the best punches 1689 01:46:06,159 --> 01:46:10,680 from the heat that have nobody is different from the best punch of a Dallas 1690 01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:15,359 or Minnesota squad with everybody, it's hard to imagine. Assuming Boston makes it, 1691 01:46:15,439 --> 01:46:18,119 and let's say they win it in five, like they're ever having been 1692 01:46:18,159 --> 01:46:24,399 a team that won so much in the regular season and then just cruised so 1693 01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:26,880 easily in the playoffs to where they get to the finals, and you're like, 1694 01:46:27,000 --> 01:46:29,560 yeah, I'm not sure yet, Like that's like, how can that 1695 01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:33,119 be the reaction? I think I think it's probably better just to get there 1696 01:46:33,199 --> 01:46:40,760 fresh and have the like questions of like they didn't really face anybody yet like 1697 01:46:41,239 --> 01:46:44,560 then, and not be sure than it is to which whoever comes out of 1698 01:46:44,600 --> 01:46:49,159 the West is like you're a decorated war hero, like you survive the gauntlet, 1699 01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:53,840 just making it this far as an achievement. We know everything we need 1700 01:46:53,920 --> 01:46:56,800 to know about you at this point because you've been tested by a bunch of 1701 01:46:56,880 --> 01:47:00,159 different types of like credible threats, where Boston we just won't be able to 1702 01:47:00,199 --> 01:47:03,000 say that almost no matter what, Like even if it goes seven, probably 1703 01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:06,880 if it goes seven against Indiana and Boston wins, we'll have more questions than 1704 01:47:06,920 --> 01:47:12,159 if it went five, just because we haven't seen enough to be sure. 1705 01:47:12,359 --> 01:47:15,640 Yeah, I think having said all that, I think the rest is just 1706 01:47:15,039 --> 01:47:17,920 going to be more valuable, I guess. But it doesn't make you feel 1707 01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:21,720 great either way. Very quickly, since they were now when we were recording 1708 01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:25,720 this, just wanted to get your quickening thoughts on the All Rookie teams. 1709 01:47:26,199 --> 01:47:30,399 First Team Victor wemen Yama, Chet Holmgren, Brandon Miller, Jaime Hawks Junior, 1710 01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:33,560 Brandon Pajemski. We grab a big day for you. Second team, 1711 01:47:33,960 --> 01:47:38,720 Derek Lively the second, Gigi Jackson the second, Kiante, George Aman Thompson, 1712 01:47:39,159 --> 01:47:44,520 and Cason Wallace an he thought a little Jackson. Gigi Jackson is the 1713 01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:47,960 surprising name to me. I forget who we maybe one of us had a 1714 01:47:48,079 --> 01:47:54,000 Sar as a as. I'm surprised he didn't make That's the one that stands 1715 01:47:54,039 --> 01:47:58,279 out to me is just oh he didn't do enough before getting injured to to 1716 01:47:58,399 --> 01:48:01,479 kind of make it. I mean I had Caseon Wallace over Pajemski as my 1717 01:48:01,600 --> 01:48:04,840 first team. Uh but actually I'm looking now, Yeah, I had a 1718 01:48:04,880 --> 01:48:08,960 Sar on my second team, so I also had blow cool BALI shout outs 1719 01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:11,680 to him. Uh, if you're watching the playoffs and we're factoring that in 1720 01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:15,680 Derek Lively the second absolutely just like that, Yeah, right, we doing 1721 01:48:15,319 --> 01:48:19,680 regularly. I am surprised that Asar Thompson didn't make a team, but I 1722 01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:23,039 look at it, and it's you know, I don't. I don't know 1723 01:48:23,119 --> 01:48:25,720 that I have any issues with Like do you look at someone and say, 1724 01:48:26,279 --> 01:48:30,199 probably, if you had to pick the two, it's not Gigi Jackson, 1725 01:48:30,279 --> 01:48:33,760 it's not Derek Lively, and it's not Cason Wallace, it's was Keyante George 1726 01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:36,479 good enough? Like? How much value you ascribed to him struggling in this 1727 01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:40,920 bigger role? Or did Amen Thompson play enough? Relative? And I think 1728 01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:43,880 his minutes got up there to where I don't have an issue with him making 1729 01:48:43,920 --> 01:48:46,359 it, so I just think I think everyone here is deserving. Keyante George 1730 01:48:46,359 --> 01:48:49,359 would probably be the one I would quibble. I would have preferred to see 1731 01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:55,520 Blaal or Asar Thompson here over him, But I don't think there's anything egregious. 1732 01:48:55,720 --> 01:48:58,199 Is there a third guy? Are you looking at our picks? Is 1733 01:48:58,239 --> 01:49:02,000 there a third guy besides cool Bally and Thompson that we've thought about? Are 1734 01:49:02,039 --> 01:49:05,199 you setting me up for this? No? I I seriously don't remember. 1735 01:49:05,319 --> 01:49:10,239 Oh Tray Jackson Davis. Oh I wish I hadn't been setting up. No, 1736 01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:14,039 I'm okay with him not being on there. I mean there's also Tamani 1737 01:49:14,079 --> 01:49:16,560 Kamara, but that's like, I don't have a huge issue with that. 1738 01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:19,760 Again, no huge issues here. It's if there was goodna be someone I 1739 01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:26,079 would say needs to be bounced for someone else, it would probably be Keyante 1740 01:49:26,279 --> 01:49:31,479 George and I would have probably have a Star Thompson in that spot. I 1741 01:49:31,560 --> 01:49:34,520 think I lean that way too, But again, like pretty solid, Like 1742 01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:38,079 at the very least they got nine out of ten guys, right, I'd 1743 01:49:38,159 --> 01:49:48,359 say, stat Petting time. Guess a player this time. I don't know 1744 01:49:48,359 --> 01:49:51,479 if it's everyone's favorite, but everyone's favorite. Guess a player? Do you 1745 01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:55,239 have any for me to probably start with? You go ahead and start while 1746 01:49:55,239 --> 01:49:59,079 I pull some up here. Okay, so this will come from I have 1747 01:49:59,159 --> 01:50:01,039 a bunch for Mike's. Maybe we'll try and plow through these. Uh, 1748 01:50:01,520 --> 01:50:03,359 all right, are you ready? Oh wait, we did this one. 1749 01:50:03,439 --> 01:50:06,479 You would you definitely would have been ready, but we did not. You 1750 01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:11,359 did not. We did not do this one. Clue number one. I 1751 01:50:11,479 --> 01:50:15,800 was an early draft pick in the ABA draft as an attempt to keep me 1752 01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:20,880 from going back to college and thus keeping me out of the NBA. Hmm, 1753 01:50:24,840 --> 01:50:33,840 I gotta try Aba. I mean Julius Irving, not him, but 1754 01:50:34,119 --> 01:50:38,760 I respect it. Clue number two that didn't work, as I ended up 1755 01:50:38,760 --> 01:50:45,520 becoming a campus legend at a blue blood school. Oh so this guy was 1756 01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:49,319 drafted like before college? Is that? Is that what the question the clue 1757 01:50:49,319 --> 01:50:51,439 is saying? Yeah, do you want me to repeat the first one? 1758 01:50:51,760 --> 01:50:55,479 No, I got it now before college to try to keep him from going 1759 01:50:55,520 --> 01:50:59,239 to the NBA and then goes to a blue blood school and is really good 1760 01:51:00,199 --> 01:51:06,159 there. Yeah, I don't know. I don't have it. Clue number 1761 01:51:06,279 --> 01:51:10,520 three. I ended up being a high draft pick in nineteen seventy four, 1762 01:51:10,680 --> 01:51:14,720 but missed much of the first two seasons with injuries stemming from a jeep accident. 1763 01:51:15,880 --> 01:51:19,800 Cheap accident. That was one of the clues where it's like you could 1764 01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:23,359 have just got like if you know it, you probably would have gotten it. 1765 01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:25,720 But I also don't know that I would expect you to know it. 1766 01:51:26,039 --> 01:51:29,079 You wouldn't expect me to know the jeep accident early in a career, that 1767 01:51:29,439 --> 01:51:32,279 can I That anecdote is kind of just like, oh, oh, I 1768 01:51:32,359 --> 01:51:34,720 know, I know who it is, or it's just you don't know it, 1769 01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:38,720 but do you know it? Yeah, I'm looking right at it. 1770 01:51:41,720 --> 01:51:45,199 Okay. I did not know the jeep anecdote, though, I feel like 1771 01:51:45,239 --> 01:51:48,399 the years are wrong here, but I'll say Bill Walton, that is correct. 1772 01:51:48,520 --> 01:51:53,079 Okay, so the other clues, by the way, nice shot by 1773 01:51:53,119 --> 01:51:54,880 you. Out of ten clues. You did it on clue number three. 1774 01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:59,960 My third season, my fortunes as well as my my fortunes as well as 1775 01:52:00,039 --> 01:52:01,920 the team's fortunes changed as we brought in a new coach. We won the 1776 01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:05,640 title and I was named Finals MVP Clue five. The next season, I 1777 01:52:05,680 --> 01:52:10,039 played in my only All Star Game one MVP, but broke my foot CLU 1778 01:52:10,159 --> 01:52:13,079 six. In seventy nine, After not having playoff success, I stated I 1779 01:52:13,119 --> 01:52:15,840 would never play for the team again, cigning medical malpractice for my injuries as 1780 01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:19,159 well as my teammates. I signed a seven year, seven million dollar contract 1781 01:52:19,239 --> 01:52:23,640 with the San Diego Clippers Clue seven. In four years with the Clippers, 1782 01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:26,800 they moved to LA and I only played in a combined one hundred and sixty 1783 01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:30,439 nine games, or fifty one percent of the total games. CLU eight, 1784 01:52:30,720 --> 01:52:33,520 I was traded to the Celtics for Cedric Maxwell and the pick that would become 1785 01:52:33,560 --> 01:52:38,880 a player I openly fawned over for years are Vitas Sabonis. Clue nine. 1786 01:52:39,079 --> 01:52:41,960 I won another title in Boston and won six Man of the Year as well. 1787 01:52:42,359 --> 01:52:45,840 Clu ten. Since retiring, I feuded with Shack, anointed Shack, 1788 01:52:45,119 --> 01:52:49,640 feuded with him some more, become a commentator, hated Rashid Wallace very publicly, 1789 01:52:50,079 --> 01:52:54,239 seen my kid get drafted into the NBA, and become a meme on 1790 01:52:54,319 --> 01:53:00,239 the Hardwoodknock podcast. That's a good one, all right, I have I 1791 01:53:00,279 --> 01:53:03,439 think all of mine are from Mike two because I didn't get through all of 1792 01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:08,439 them from last week. All right, Dan, Clue number one, I'm 1793 01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:12,600 one of four players ever to play in the NBA from my home country. 1794 01:53:15,159 --> 01:53:18,079 Oh, I'm one of four players ever to play in the NBA from my 1795 01:53:18,199 --> 01:53:26,439 home country, which I get obscure. I know where's Gogo Patase from where 1796 01:53:26,439 --> 01:53:31,560 we're gonna have him again? He's from Georgia, I believe, home of 1797 01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:35,279 Zaza Pachulia. Yeah, I know. So now there's two players that are 1798 01:53:35,319 --> 01:53:39,239 there? Was there four? I got nothing? He go? All right? 1799 01:53:40,039 --> 01:53:43,680 Clue number two. After an international career that saw me play senior basketball 1800 01:53:43,720 --> 01:53:45,960 in Croatia. Wait a minute, is this the right person. That's the 1801 01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:47,920 wrong person. That's a different clue. Disregard that trying to mess you up, 1802 01:53:48,159 --> 01:53:51,399 Cluane number two. I was drafted in the lottery in twenty thirteen, 1803 01:53:51,560 --> 01:53:56,199 after playing my senior year of high school and one year of college in America. 1804 01:53:56,880 --> 01:53:59,920 On Draft night, I became the first player from my college to be 1805 01:54:00,079 --> 01:54:04,800 selected in the first round since Vontigo Cummings in nineteen ninety Nine's is Georgia popianis 1806 01:54:05,600 --> 01:54:09,680 no good? Guess? Deep boy? That name was just right in your 1807 01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:14,640 brain. Huh. I'm just trying to think of a lottery pick about him. 1808 01:54:15,239 --> 01:54:16,800 Two years and he got his team option to climb. That's rough stuff 1809 01:54:16,840 --> 01:54:24,199 to pick of that you making. Clue three. I started twenty games as 1810 01:54:24,199 --> 01:54:28,199 a rookie, playing in eighty one, averaging three points and shooting fifty eight 1811 01:54:28,239 --> 01:54:30,840 percent from the foul line. Why did that start that many games if he 1812 01:54:30,920 --> 01:54:36,199 was playing so poorly? Yeah, we averaged three points in a lottery pick. 1813 01:54:36,479 --> 01:54:41,159 I have no idea, like, yeah average three points as a lot 1814 01:54:41,479 --> 01:54:44,439 was the draft? What's that? What year was the draft? Did we 1815 01:54:44,479 --> 01:54:50,640 say that twenty thirteen? No, it's not Anthony Bennett. So that's a 1816 01:54:50,680 --> 01:54:59,640 plus drafted in the lottery, right, Uh? Yep, got that twenty 1817 01:54:59,680 --> 01:55:02,760 thirteen. The draft was so forgettable I'm trying to remember what pick this guy 1818 01:55:02,920 --> 01:55:05,039 was. I can't. I knew he was a lottery pick, but I 1819 01:55:05,039 --> 01:55:10,840 wouldn't have remembered the number or you know that he was in the twenty thirteen 1820 01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:13,880 draft. Off rip. I'm so bad at that, and it's probably not 1821 01:55:14,079 --> 01:55:16,680 it's like the I would have been like in the neighborhood. But I don't 1822 01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:18,560 know if I would have. I would have guessed, if anything, I 1823 01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:24,079 would have guessed like a year or two earlier than that. Okay, Clue 1824 01:55:24,119 --> 01:55:28,319 four. The following year, I started sixty seven games, doubling my scoring 1825 01:55:28,359 --> 01:55:33,279 and averaging my career high in blocks. This is not helping. Just keep 1826 01:55:33,319 --> 01:55:38,000 going. Clue five. In the following five seasons, all with the team 1827 01:55:38,039 --> 01:55:44,319 that drafted me, I posted nearly identical stats every year. Who six, 1828 01:55:45,279 --> 01:55:48,319 I have made one career three pointer. My career percentage from deep is six 1829 01:55:48,399 --> 01:55:53,359 point seven percent, not a shoot. I should know this by now. 1830 01:55:55,800 --> 01:56:00,720 You will get it on the next clue. I think, all right, 1831 01:56:00,840 --> 01:56:02,479 yeah, so the country stuff has thrown me off. They just want to 1832 01:56:02,479 --> 01:56:06,239 throw out names like John Henson or somebody like that. But just where is 1833 01:56:06,319 --> 01:56:11,560 John Henson from? I said the country things throwing me off because like, 1834 01:56:11,640 --> 01:56:14,880 oh, I see, yeah, you can't say John Henson in twenty twenty 1835 01:56:14,920 --> 01:56:17,079 one, this is clue seven. In twenty twenty one, I was traded 1836 01:56:17,119 --> 01:56:21,199 to the Pelicans in a four team deal. The following season, I was 1837 01:56:21,279 --> 01:56:29,159 swapped for Yonis Valancunas. Fuck? Who was this? Is this not a 1838 01:56:29,239 --> 01:56:30,520 JINSA? Is it? No? He wasn't part of that trade too far 1839 01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:38,479 back? Who the fuck was traded for Yonna's Valentiunis? Why can't I remember 1840 01:56:38,560 --> 01:56:42,159 that? So it can't be Is it it's not Steven Adams? Is it? 1841 01:56:42,439 --> 01:56:45,720 It is? In fact Steven Adams. I didn't want to guess him. 1842 01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:46,760 I was like, oh, there's no, he's really one of only 1843 01:56:46,880 --> 01:56:49,640 four players from New Zealand to play in the NBA. I guess I'm trying. 1844 01:56:49,680 --> 01:56:51,680 I was trying to think of who the other ones were. I get 1845 01:56:53,119 --> 01:56:56,720 Aaron Baines is always someone that I'm like, is it Australia or New Zealand 1846 01:56:56,800 --> 01:57:00,239 for him? I think it's Australia. I think you're right. I don't 1847 01:57:00,239 --> 01:57:01,800 know who else is from New Zealand that I like. No, I'm sure 1848 01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:04,960 people are screaming at the at US. We could google it. We're not 1849 01:57:05,039 --> 01:57:10,760 going to because that's how this works. But a copy. You only had 1850 01:57:11,079 --> 01:57:15,920 three more here this this year, I sat out the season, but I 1851 01:57:15,039 --> 01:57:18,920 was traded to Houston for Victor oladipot nine. At one point in my career, 1852 01:57:19,039 --> 01:57:23,079 Draymond Green tended to kick me in the balls. I mean, who 1853 01:57:23,159 --> 01:57:28,319 hasn't had that like that down like five hundred and that broadens the scope last 1854 01:57:28,359 --> 01:57:30,520 clue. Throughout my career, I've started looking more and more like Jason Momo, 1855 01:57:30,720 --> 01:57:34,439 growing my hair out and adding to my badass tribal tattoo. Confident you 1856 01:57:34,439 --> 01:57:39,600 would have had it there, I'll give you an option. We can do 1857 01:57:39,760 --> 01:57:43,800 the I guess a player that I have for you that I don't think you'll 1858 01:57:43,840 --> 01:57:46,319 get. I'm sorry, my confidence in you was waiting. Maybe it's just 1859 01:57:46,319 --> 01:57:50,960 because I wouldn't have gotten it, or you could do who's Bill Walton talking 1860 01:57:50,960 --> 01:57:56,680 about? Well, you can't say. I have to take the challenge now 1861 01:57:56,880 --> 01:58:01,800 of maybe one I can't get. All right, are you ready? Then 1862 01:58:02,279 --> 01:58:06,680 I guess Clue one. I was the second player ever from my home country 1863 01:58:06,720 --> 01:58:15,279 to play in the NBA. Steven Adams, Rudy Fernandez, No, I 1864 01:58:15,439 --> 01:58:17,760 like that. Get some nice Steve Cutz here, weren't you from Spain? 1865 01:58:18,279 --> 01:58:27,039 Yeah? I know, like you naming a Canadian Andrew Wigan CLU two. 1866 01:58:27,079 --> 01:58:30,640 I came to the NBA in two thousand after going undrafted in nineteen ninety eight. 1867 01:58:31,960 --> 01:58:35,920 Two thousand, Oh wait, maybe you will get this one. I 1868 01:58:35,960 --> 01:58:41,319 feel like I should have known it on CLU three. But sorry undrafted two 1869 01:58:41,439 --> 01:58:46,840 thousand. Uh heater No. I like where your heads at though, Clue 1870 01:58:46,880 --> 01:58:49,479 three and both of my first two seasons in the NBA, I won a 1871 01:58:49,560 --> 01:58:54,279 championship with the Lakers, though it was largely an end of the bench guy 1872 01:58:54,359 --> 01:58:59,279 who saw midutes when the game was out of hand. Slava Medvedenko, you 1873 01:58:59,399 --> 01:59:01,640 got it that job. I would have gotten it Clue four. Known for 1874 01:59:01,720 --> 01:59:04,920 my offensive game, my defense and overall love of basketball were often called into 1875 01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:09,880 question. I might have thought that was Andrew Bynham at that point my career 1876 01:59:09,960 --> 01:59:13,439 year. My career year came in two thousand and three, where due to 1877 01:59:13,479 --> 01:59:15,039 injuries on the team, I started thirty eight games and averaged eight point three 1878 01:59:15,079 --> 01:59:18,439 points in five rebounds CLU six. After finishing my career in two thousand and 1879 01:59:18,479 --> 01:59:23,319 six, I got into local politics in my home country, running for office 1880 01:59:23,359 --> 01:59:28,479 in the largest city in the country. I didn't win lu seven. Both 1881 01:59:28,560 --> 01:59:31,279 my wife and I served in the military and our homelands ongoing war defending our 1882 01:59:31,319 --> 01:59:34,760 home country from invasion. I was laughing at the I didn't win, not 1883 01:59:34,880 --> 01:59:40,199 at the military invasion. For anyone who's curious. In twenty twenty two, 1884 01:59:40,279 --> 01:59:44,039 I auctioned off my championship ring to raise funds to help raise money for my 1885 01:59:44,119 --> 01:59:49,079 country's military post invasion. Jeanie Bus gifted me two replacement rings. Cluein Stephen 1886 01:59:49,119 --> 01:59:53,800 A. Smith had an unhealthy obsession with calling me a scrub that's thank you. 1887 01:59:54,439 --> 01:59:57,640 I can hear him saying his name or no. He always used to 1888 01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:01,800 say Rascho Nasterovitch too, steven A. Wood, I get a scrubb bit 1889 02:00:01,960 --> 02:00:05,760 with those. No, I don't know, all right, I got I 1890 02:00:05,840 --> 02:00:09,600 actually think I have some. Oh, no, I think we did those. 1891 02:00:10,399 --> 02:00:15,439 I have one more guests A player for you from Mike that I'm pretty 1892 02:00:15,479 --> 02:00:18,560 sure we haven't done that. You that you will get all right, let's 1893 02:00:18,600 --> 02:00:20,479 do it. I have to ask you some of the Bill Walton stuff. 1894 02:00:20,479 --> 02:00:24,279 Okay, already getting a kick out of him. We'll do that. We'll 1895 02:00:24,319 --> 02:00:27,600 do this, and then we can end with the Walton stuff. Clue number 1896 02:00:27,600 --> 02:00:34,079 one. I was drafted in twenty eleven by the Sixers. Twenty eleven. 1897 02:00:35,760 --> 02:00:40,279 Oh my god, it's so long ago, well before the I'm like thinking 1898 02:00:40,319 --> 02:00:43,199 process ever Sixers. I'm like, well, no, that's even further away 1899 02:00:43,239 --> 02:00:49,520 than that. A couple of years before twenty eleven by the Sixers. I 1900 02:00:49,560 --> 02:00:56,119 think this is Drew Holiday. This is not drewe Holiday. That's a really 1901 02:00:56,159 --> 02:01:00,520 good guest though. As a rookie, clues I played fifty one games, 1902 02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:04,239 starting fifteen and averaging five points a game. So not doing much as a 1903 02:01:04,319 --> 02:01:14,880 rookie twenty eleven is really throwing me off. When did they draft Andre Gadala? 1904 02:01:15,199 --> 02:01:19,239 He's like, oh five, oh four? Shit, all right, 1905 02:01:19,800 --> 02:01:24,680 I think I still got nothing. So okay, Clu three. After my 1906 02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:28,279 rookie season, I was traded to the team I'm most known for playing for. 1907 02:01:30,239 --> 02:01:34,720 So the Sixers did something stupid in twenty twelve. That was the year 1908 02:01:34,760 --> 02:01:38,600 of the four team Dwight Howard trade. Was that twenty twelve? No, 1909 02:01:39,439 --> 02:01:46,800 maybe year after the lockout. Maybe I'm not gonna respond, all right, 1910 02:01:46,840 --> 02:01:53,079 So twenty twelve traded who did they give up for? Oh? No, 1911 02:01:53,479 --> 02:01:56,600 Nicole? I Vucevic. That's correct. Wait did you get there? Good 1912 02:01:56,720 --> 02:02:00,239 job? That was huge. That was I thought you were. I well, 1913 02:02:00,319 --> 02:02:03,000 once you mentioned the trade, I think you heat it up a little 1914 02:02:03,039 --> 02:02:05,960 bit. Yeah, you got it. It is Nikolovucevic. I was like 1915 02:02:06,359 --> 02:02:10,560 kind of moving my head weird because it's like, is he most known for 1916 02:02:10,680 --> 02:02:14,279 the Magic or is it the bulls? Now? Probably the Magic. I 1917 02:02:14,319 --> 02:02:19,840 guess he was an All sco He's like, he's infamous. I know clue 1918 02:02:19,880 --> 02:02:24,439 four. I played with that team referring to the Magic for part of nine 1919 02:02:24,479 --> 02:02:28,800 seasons before being traded the team. Wow, was that long? Jesus the 1920 02:02:28,880 --> 02:02:30,680 team I'm currently playing four five. In the process of getting traded, I 1921 02:02:30,720 --> 02:02:35,920 reunited with my college teammate. I guess that's DeRozan because they were at USC 1922 02:02:36,439 --> 02:02:42,159 together six. Entering the league as a post player, I gradually added more 1923 02:02:42,239 --> 02:02:44,680 range to my jump shot to the point I was considered a stretch big. 1924 02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:48,119 That label evaporated this year as my shooting fell off on a team caught in 1925 02:02:48,199 --> 02:02:53,560 no man's land. It's just spoon feeding us now. My seven, the 1926 02:02:53,640 --> 02:02:56,399 team I was traded from, made the playoffs this year, and I was 1927 02:02:56,439 --> 02:02:59,960 a dud in my team's playing game opportunities Clue eight. I bet my current 1928 02:03:00,039 --> 02:03:03,119 team wishes they could have Wendell Carter Junior and Franz Wagner instead of me on 1929 02:03:03,239 --> 02:03:10,920 a contract. I feel like that's some version of that. Exact sentiment is 1930 02:03:10,960 --> 02:03:14,359 in every single thing I ever write about Vucevic and the Bulls. At this 1931 02:03:14,479 --> 02:03:16,520 stage, it's just like, yeah, look, you know what, until 1932 02:03:16,560 --> 02:03:20,199 they change their ways, that's the analysis, right. It feels like it's 1933 02:03:20,239 --> 02:03:25,720 been pretty steady for quite a while. Then get to have new takes written 1934 02:03:25,800 --> 02:03:29,960 about you until you actually do something to warrant Yeah, you need to do 1935 02:03:30,079 --> 02:03:32,920 it. You perform a new take worthy act before you're rewarded with new takes 1936 02:03:33,279 --> 02:03:36,199 before we get into guess or what Bill want about? I want to use 1937 02:03:36,239 --> 02:03:40,159 this. I'll mention it in discord. We're going to be in the market. 1938 02:03:40,279 --> 02:03:45,159 I've just decided for I'd like to do shorts on who whose NBA draft 1939 02:03:45,239 --> 02:03:49,279 comp is? This so not necessarily these long winded who are they talking about 1940 02:03:49,399 --> 02:03:53,880 type things, but more so like who'se NBA draft comp was Michael Jordan? 1941 02:03:54,079 --> 02:03:57,119 And then you give us four choices if you want to send those, I 1942 02:03:57,119 --> 02:03:59,640 would say minimum of three. If you want us to make a segment out 1943 02:03:59,680 --> 02:04:01,840 of those message me or Grant because he can pose them to me. I 1944 02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:04,319 know a lot of our shorts are just me yelling at Grant to give me 1945 02:04:04,399 --> 02:04:09,239 the correct answer. Uh, do that, so I'll mention it in discord 1946 02:04:09,279 --> 02:04:12,279 at some point. But that would be fun because we would definitely get a 1947 02:04:12,319 --> 02:04:15,359 lot of those wrong. Oh yeah, for sure. Like it's like ten 1948 02:04:15,399 --> 02:04:19,600 percent hit rate probably seems high. Well because they people will give us like 1949 02:04:20,319 --> 02:04:26,399 the most ridiculous Uh. It'll be like, I don't know, it's Trey 1950 02:04:26,479 --> 02:04:32,600 Young and it's like shades of uh, like Goga bitadze and what? Okay? 1951 02:04:32,680 --> 02:04:39,520 Grant? Who is Bill Walton talking about? Where would the Clippers be 1952 02:04:39,720 --> 02:04:45,239 without Blank? Lamar Odom, Michael Oloma, Kandhi, Sean Rooks, Matt 1953 02:04:45,439 --> 02:04:50,239 Barnes or JJ Reddick feels like a Sean Rooks. That is correct? Nice 1954 02:04:50,319 --> 02:04:57,600 job. Who is Bill Walton talking about? Blank? Represents all that is 1955 02:04:57,720 --> 02:05:02,359 right with the NBA and the war world? Colenna as a bookie, Daniel 1956 02:05:02,359 --> 02:05:09,800 Gibson, Derek Fisher, Elton Brand or Drew Gooden. I gotta say, 1957 02:05:09,920 --> 02:05:13,920 Daniel Gibson, that is incorrect. The answer is Elton brand. Sure, 1958 02:05:14,680 --> 02:05:18,840 Oh, all, that's right with the world. Sorry. Who is Bill 1959 02:05:18,880 --> 02:05:24,279 Walton talking about? In transition? The extension, the spread eagle, the 1960 02:05:24,359 --> 02:05:28,880 posterization over, the imaginary defender, the professors over at M I T couldn't 1961 02:05:28,920 --> 02:05:33,640 diagram a more perfect model of a human being exploding to the rim A Lebron 1962 02:05:33,760 --> 02:05:39,640 James B Jason Richardson, C. Jordan Hill, d Ha Keem Warwick, 1963 02:05:40,000 --> 02:05:45,920 E Dion Glover. Oh, I thought it was for sure a Keem Warick. 1964 02:05:47,079 --> 02:05:50,039 I have to go with my gut and say, oh, but Jordan 1965 02:05:50,159 --> 02:05:53,439 Hill's right there. I'm gonna say, hey, Key Worrick, you would 1966 02:05:53,439 --> 02:05:57,319 be wrong. It was Lebron James. Oh, that's toough. These are 1967 02:05:57,359 --> 02:06:00,840 the impossible ones when it's like, okay, that does make sense. I 1968 02:06:00,880 --> 02:06:02,239 don't know why I read the letters in that answer. By the way, 1969 02:06:05,560 --> 02:06:11,079 who is Bill Walton talking about? Blank is doing things we've never seen from 1970 02:06:11,119 --> 02:06:16,760 anybody from any planet. Kenneth for Reid, Ike the Ogu, Doug McDermott, 1971 02:06:17,199 --> 02:06:21,720 Tracy McGrady, or Jerry Stackhouse. So Tracy McGrady is like the only 1972 02:06:21,800 --> 02:06:27,119 one you could semi credibly say that about. So he's out. Uh, 1973 02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:30,079 who's the first name. You said, Kenneth forar Reid. It's gotta be 1974 02:06:30,159 --> 02:06:33,560 Kenneth for Reid. It's Tracy McGrady. Ah, two in a row of 1975 02:06:33,720 --> 02:06:39,479 like semi sensible players. Oh, I'm never gonna get these right. This 1976 02:06:39,640 --> 02:06:41,840 is the fifth one. He's got more if you want me to keep going, 1977 02:06:41,880 --> 02:06:43,760 but this is where I was gonna stop. All right, just do 1978 02:06:43,880 --> 02:06:48,000 this one. Blank is the second best player in the Eastern Conference. Tyson 1979 02:06:48,119 --> 02:06:56,199 Chandler, Johan Petrow, Kenyan Martin, Anton Jamison or Joe Johnson. Wow, 1980 02:06:58,159 --> 02:07:05,600 I gotta go Joe Johnson. Incorrect, it's Kenyan Martin. Shout out 1981 02:07:05,760 --> 02:07:11,319 to Mike, who comes up with these just the choices? Yeah, or 1982 02:07:11,439 --> 02:07:15,159 just a key Warwick and as like not the answer, that's just that's in 1983 02:07:15,239 --> 02:07:19,239 Fred. That's really incredible. That's in cred. The meat of this game 1984 02:07:19,359 --> 02:07:24,720 is in the choices, because like, is the more obscure the name is 1985 02:07:24,880 --> 02:07:27,439 or the more ill fitting, the more likely I am to pick it. 1986 02:07:27,800 --> 02:07:31,680 And and now we're like Mike is like zagging at the exact right times and 1987 02:07:32,239 --> 02:07:36,640 and making it so it's the correct like the quote unquote correct person. Yeah, 1988 02:07:36,800 --> 02:07:41,840 it's just it's really it's like an uncrackable riddle. I could do who 1989 02:07:41,920 --> 02:07:44,680 is Bill Walton talking about? I could do a two hour episode on that. 1990 02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:47,600 It might be our least downloaded episode of all time, but I enjoy 1991 02:07:47,680 --> 02:07:53,079 the Bill Walton. This is hysterical. Yeah, do you want to take 1992 02:07:53,159 --> 02:07:57,119 us out? Dan? Oh shit? Thank you everyone. If you've made 1993 02:07:57,159 --> 02:08:01,479 over two hours of content coming your way. If you have not already, 1994 02:08:01,520 --> 02:08:05,079 you've listened this far. Subscribe, Spotify, Apple, YouTube, wherever you 1995 02:08:05,159 --> 02:08:07,479 get your podcasts means a lot, means a lot, even if you don't 1996 02:08:07,560 --> 02:08:11,079 use YouTube, Go like, comment on the video, share it, help 1997 02:08:11,119 --> 02:08:16,399 the algorithm love us back. We had questions about where some of our that 1998 02:08:16,560 --> 02:08:20,000 our episodes have sort of diminished, where we're doing like two a week, 1999 02:08:20,079 --> 02:08:22,680 sometimes three instead of three or four. Share us and make us more popular 2000 02:08:22,800 --> 02:08:26,479 so that we're inclined to carve out more time to put out more episodes. 2001 02:08:26,880 --> 02:08:30,960 Otherwise they're going to continue to dwindle. That is, it's weird to say 2002 02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:33,399 that as the number one podcast of all time, but we would appreciate any 2003 02:08:33,439 --> 02:08:37,800 shares, recommendations, bumps on Twitter, since we're still Shadow band, and 2004 02:08:37,840 --> 02:08:41,880 by we I mean I use Twitter and Grant does not, so we're collectively 2005 02:08:41,920 --> 02:08:46,039 shadow band h join our discord. The links in the podcast YouTube description you 2006 02:08:46,079 --> 02:08:48,720 can send us who is Bill Won't talking about our guests the players, Those 2007 02:08:48,720 --> 02:08:52,880 are always fun to send in. You can check out our merch the link 2008 02:08:52,920 --> 02:08:56,159 to that's in the podcast and YouTube description. Until next time, and as 2009 02:08:56,199 --> 02:08:58,600 always, we need to shout out to the One, the Only, the 2010 02:08:58,680 --> 02:09:01,800 and Della the Thunder would have won the semifinals if they had him on their 2011 02:09:01,880 --> 02:09:07,319 roster, Frankie and Lachina, And apologies to Jared Allen, who should immediately 2012 02:09:07,359 --> 02:09:11,000 go in the Cavs front office and demand and trade them. Seeing that preposterous 2013 02:09:11,199 --> 02:09:15,640 just report with no name appied to it, that's I'm still angry about it. 2014 02:09:15,720 --> 02:09:18,159 I'm neither a Cavs fan nor related to Jared Awn