In the dead of night, under a starlit sky, Colin Saunders's reality shattered
as he witnessed a triangular craft silently gliding above, defying the laws of physics
and challenging the very essence of his beliefs. This was no ordinary night in
nineteen ninety nine. It marked the beginning of an odyssey into the unknown.
Colin, propelled by this eerie encounter, embarked on a mission to uncover the
truth. His quest led him to a startling discovery he was not alone.
His book became a compilation of over one hundred thirty first hand accounts, each
narrating close encounters with these enigmatic triangular u fos in the United Kingdom. But
the narrative takes an even more bizarre turn. Witnesses reported not just sightings,
but lost time, mysterious men in black, and a strange connection between UFOs
and paranormal activities. The most bone chilling aspect reports of alien telepathy, a
concept so alien it seems ripped from the pages of science fiction. Colin Saunders's
story is a testament to the unexplained mysteries that hover in our skies, a
reminder that the universe harbors secrets beyond our current understanding. His journey from a
quiet night in nineteen ninety nine to delving into the depths of the unknown challenges
us to question what truths lie hidden in the night sky. But as we
delve deeper into his narrative, one question lingers a question that might change everything
we know about our world and ourselves. What if the answers we seek are
not in the skies, but within us. Stay tuned for an exploration into
the unknown, where reality and mystery collide. What's up, my friend?
Consider this your official invitation to our upcoming four day Mystical Immersion Conference. It's
gonna be amazing. We're gonna spend four days encountering the presence of God,
going deep into the heart of Jesus to choose our mystical identity. We're gonna
be exploring the power of your choice. We're gonna be tapping into the mystical
side of our faith, which is pretty pretty much all of it, all
while diving deep into our true identity, who we really are in Him.
I'm so excited about this retreat because I've teamed up with some good friends of
mine that's gonna make this thing even better myself. Gil Hodges from Kingdom talks
Martin Smith with identity coaching. Come on, guys, and we'll also be
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It's going to be in Anderson, South Carolina. As of December fourth,
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twenty twenty four at the Choosing your Mystical Identity four day Encounter. It's going
to be amazing. Go to seer dot School to get your tickets. Now,
what's up, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Troopsika Podcast. I'm
excited to be here. We're talking about UFOs and the paranormal today. My
guest is Colin Son. Colin, welcome to the show. Brother, How
are you ohm good? Thank you Derek, and thank you freeviting me to
your show. I've seen the models and the pictures and these things that you've
been creating, of these these craft that you've experienced, so you put out
a book on this. You have models and this is like really a big
part of your life, so ready to dive into it with you your experiences
and what you what got you into it, and while you're still like,
I don't know if is obsessed a good word, but then yeah, I
would say you obsessed is a pretty good yes. I think it had so
much of an impact on me that night that I've never been able to stop
thinking about it. It'll soon be twenty five years and I've thought about it
every day since then, and I've had some other experiences as well, which
we can talk about along the way. Yeah, well, let's I love
to start at the beginning always, so if you want to set that up
for the listeners, just talk about, you know what got you I went
to this field like that first encounter, and it would just build on now.
Yes, Before before I get into the actual sighting, I just want
to say that originally I've got no interest in UFOs. I wasn't looking through
the UFO, just a passing interest like everybody else. I've been to see
Style Wars at the Pictures when that came out all those years ago, but
no great fascination, you know. I wasn't looking for this thing now.
Also, the reason why I think I personally make a good witness is because
of my working career, which I'll just quickly run through, because it does
have a bearing I believe on the siting and all certainly on the model that
I've built. I'm now heading for retirement. I'm sixty five now, but
I spent all my life being a draftsman. I've been an electrical design draftsman.
I've worked in the oil industry for Chevron Petroleum. I've worked in New
Zealand for refrigeration companies. But more importantly I have worked on the airbus in
Germany, and I also worked for SABAA Space for a couple of years in
Sweden on the civilian aircraft over there. And also along the way, I
became auto CAD User of the Year back in I think I was nineteen eighty
nine. I've got the trophy behind me there somewhere. But auto CAD is
a really good computer aided design package. I got quite involved in that.
So my whole life leading up to the encounter has been drawing basically on the
drawing board and working with geometry, which I think obviously especially the aircraft industry
gives me a good ground in what we saw that night. So if we
go to that night it all started on the thirty first of March nineteen ninety
nine. We've gone out for a meal in the English countryside in a little
village called Pailton. There's a pub there called the White Lion. And there
were two cars. I was in the car, my wife was driving the
first car, and my mother in law it was her birthday that day.
She was sitting sitting next door to next to my wife, and I was
sitting in the back with my daughter. There's me and my daughter and my
wife and my mother in law all in one vehicle, and in the next
vehicle was my brother in law with his French partner and her grandparents. So
we'd gone to the pub. We'd had a by our mill and everything was
fine. Then we'd come to leave, and I remember as we pulled off,
I looked through the back window of the car that we was in.
I could see my brother in law struggling to get the old French lady into
the range rover. So we pulled off her head and I thought they'll soon
soon catch us up. So off we went through the Warwickshire countryside. It's
pitched black, there's no street lights, it's just country lanes, and we
come up to an old Roman road called the Foss Way. This was built
obviously centuries ago by by the Romans, and they apparently they build them on
lay lines, but whether that's got anything to do with it or not,
I don't know. But we said, right, we're just about to turn
onto the Foss Way, and my daughter said, oh, there's been talk
of headless horsemen down here, so we all laughed, had a bit of
chuckle, says, yeah, we'll keep our eyes open for in them.
As soon as we turned the corner. He's actually half a mile away,
because I've been there and measured it the very next day. With some lights
hovering by the side of the road. There were red, mainly deep red,
with a bit of white mingled up into the lights as well. Now,
obviously we all got excited by this because this is a foss way.
There's no street lights, there's no pylons, there's no aircraft lights, there's
nothing. It's just dark black countryside and there's been nothing on the way down.
And we passed as don't like works or civil engineering, going on anything
along those lines. They were just these lights. So we all talking about
them, saying there's too many lights for helicopter and two loaf airplane and that
sort of thing, and they were just flashing away the brilliant lights show absolutely
amazing, and we drove towards them, talking and getting all excited, and
then we stopped more or less underneath them. I would say, and I'm
very good with distancing, is this craft was one hundred feet away from us,
except at this particular moment in time, there was no craft. It
was just lights. These lights were just suspended in the sky, and I
would say there must have only been something like fifty feet off the ground and
one hundred feet away, extremely close. If I got a cricket ball that
could have hit them. Now, on the back, there were four big
red lights and they were tilted at an angle, and it just quickly show
you on the book you can see these four red lights at the back.
They weren't level with the earth. They were tilted at a slight angle,
and there was a bit of white mixed in with these lights, and a
smaller red light off to one side. And I remember staring at the fourth
flight the highest one of the tilt, and it got like a crisscross effect
on the lens. It looked really interesting. It looked like Newton's ring interference.
It didn't look like a manufactured piece of glass like a stop light on
the traffic lights. It looked like the light coming out of it was and
these wave patterns in it and made it a criss cross pattern on it.
And I'm thinking to myself, what on earth are we looking at here?
It's absolutely incredible. As soon as I had that thought, I could see
the sky start to ripple around the lights. It's easy if I show you
on this particular what this is the first model that I built. Actually,
okay, I've got a battery pack. So we're looking at the rear end
of this craft and it's tilted at an angle lights, but there's no craft.
It's just these lights. And I can see another slight red light off
to one side, which is this one on the front of the nose here,
which I worked out later by building the model. So as I'm staring
at this set of lights, we're all staring at them, the sky starts
to ripple around the outside. It looked like a diamond shape, but that
was cus. The nose was tilted down like this, so you can see
the silhouette of a diamond. As soon as I've seen the sky start to
ripple, I thought there's something around those lights. And then immediately it decloaked.
It was like star Trek, you know, and Klingons de cloak their
ship. It was just like that. It totally decloaked in front of us,
and there was this enormous triangle, except the rear end was facing us.
As soon as it materialized. What happened next was its nose. So
here we are at the rear end of it. Its nose floated up in
the air like that. Now, if it had tilted from the middle of
the craft, it would have struck the ground. It was that close to
the ground. So the rear end stay there it was, and the nose
came up like this, like a like a horse rearing up to reveal the
top surface of the craft. And the top of the craft was like a
liquid effect with silver beams on top interlocking. As we go on, I'll
show some more models that we've made, but show that in a better configuration.
This is the first handbuilt model I made out of well, actually the
second model, and the first one was stolen from from my vehicle. There
was a break into the vehicle and somebody stole my first model, which was
a bit a bit concern and I never did find it again. Whoever broke
into the car, they took the cassette player out the dashboard and they took
the model of the UFO. Well, the cassette player was worth nothing,
So I've got a feeling that we're just looking for the for the UFO.
Yeah, probably got that for Christmas. So at this point, there was
something strange that happened. But we'll come back to that. Otherwise it will
it will make more sense if we go through the sequence of events. So
this craft materialized right in front of us, and we're all shouting stop,
stop, wanting to get out. When we got me and my mother in
law. She was seventy two that day. She's passed away. Now,
unfortunately we would have got on board. We were so excited to see this
thing in front of us. I mean, it was just beautiful to look
out the way it'd been manufactured. Also, when it materialized, the two
wing tips that were closest to us, they had like little fluffy white plows
of condensation appeared on them, and I believe that's because the craft itself was
extremely cold, and this condensation is creating and it's come to the least points
of resistance, which was the three points of the triangle. Again, I'll
come back to that a little bit later on as to why I think that
that occurred. All right, so we're looking at it, said, let's
stop, let's want to get out, and my wife is a very sensible
person. So she drove forward to reverse into a gateway. The gateway was
pretty much underneath this craft at the side of the road. It was a
gateway to a horses field and there was a stable there were some horses in.
But as she pulled forward, there was a big hedge that blocked the
view, and I thought to himself, it's going to go. It's going
to go now. So she reversed into heage. We jumped out and sure
enough could have gone. We got out of town. We stood there.
There were no smell of any aviation fuel, no thermal signature, nothing.
In fact, it was deadly quiet. But what we did see in the
distance was another craft going away with four big red lights on the back.
But this one was absolutely massive. This was like the size of a football
pitch. We stood there looking at that going away, and I was going
that earth is there? Look? And I knew nothing about UFOs. I
said, look, it's changed its size. It's massive and how And then
we're going, oh, I don't know. The girls are saying, I
don't know what it is. So then we got back into the car,
drove drove back home. Now my mother in law lives next to my brother
in law. Brought the house next door to my mother in law. He
was in the range rover, the one that was back at the pub,
So the whole episode didn't last very long. We drove home and there,
to our surprise, was the range rover, and they arrived home before us.
And also they were all out of the ranger over inside the house having
a cup of tea. So they've obviously arrived home a bit before we arrived
home. But we've never seen them pass us, and they never saw us,
and they never saw the craft either. It was all very peculiar.
So what happened then was because of my a Ddrassmen, I started drawing it
the very next day. I was running my own business at the time,
so that gave me the opportunity to start making some models. But I started
drawing it for a start, producing some nice, clear concise pictures of what
we've seen that night, and me my daughter draw some pictures as well.
And then I started to make the models. And like I said, the
first one was stolen them from the vand the second one was this one,
the wooden one apply with the battery in lights. But then a friend of
mine came to see me one day and he said he brought three D printer
and as part of an experiment he wanted to make, he had my UFO
for me, so he produced this. This is the first one. So
this is the first triangle the Lea produced for me on the three D printer.
And if you look at it closely, you can see it's got the
beams there. You can see the beams raised upon the surface and he's put
some batteries in it, so we've got the lights at the back, the
lights underneath, etc. I mean, it really is a beautiful piece of
kit. It took me a long time to make it. It didn't want
anything for doing it. The difficult part was getting all the design files together
to print it. Once you do that it's fairly easy to keep manufacturing.
So I came up with a great idea. I said, if I sell
these on eBay for you, will you make me a big one. I
don't want any money. I just want you to make me a large craft
that's more like the original we saw that night. So we did. And
here it is. This is the final the final model, which switched the
lights on on this one. Now this one has got the full color if
you like. So for instance, if you look at the surface, we
can see the beams, they're a different color to the liquid surface. Can
you see the surface of the craft, It looks like it's a liquid and
made a great job of the paint job on this particular craft, this model,
it looked like liquid mercury running up and down the surface. But the
beam and it was moving. It was all moving, but the silver beams
were not moving. When they were interlocking at ninety degrees, you could see
it had clearly been manufactured. But it looked like nothing had ever seen in
my life. But it looked organic. It looked like it was alive.
Even though you could see it was a craft that had been manufactured, it
looked alive. It felt like it was alive, and when it tilted up,
three thoughts came straight into my mind. The first one was, my
God, aliens exist. The second one was abductions take must take place.
And the third one, this explains mysteries from history like pyramids and things,
because I've got the feeling these guys have been around a long long time.
So this is the final model. The underneath of the model is actually based
on a Belgium siding. I met a gentleman called Omar Fowler. He sent
me some drawings that had been made in Belgium. This was back in the
eighties. This is the underneath. We never saw the underneath. We only
saw the rear end and then the top as it rose up as it and
it floated like a submarine underwater. The way it moved, it was really
weird to see its maneuver. But this one in Belgium had also got these
lines in relief coming off the surface interlocking. It just seemed to me it
could be the same craft because we've got the beams on the top coming off
now the one in Belgium. Now, are there pictures of that or is
our witness testimony? There's no pictures of it? Now there's are drawings that
the guy did when it flew over his head, and I got sketches of
that inside the book that I've written. So this is what I always called
the nuts and bolts of the story the craft. The models were built,
but there is more to it, and this is what really freaked out and
probably why I've become obsessed, especially as I'm an engineer by trade. I
mean, just seeing the thing was incredible. It just blew me away.
You knew straight away it was not from this world. You could just tell,
and it was like the Odds effect. When we got out the car,
it was so quiet and there's nothing around, and after a while cars
are coming again and with the air traffic. But what happened was, again
this is going to sound really weird. They were staring at the rear of
the craft, and I'm staring at this particular light here, the one that's
got the crisscross effect. Then it materializes and you get the white fluffy clouds
around these wing tips and around the front one as well. But then as
it rose in the air like this, as it floated up, all of
a sudden, I had this close up view. It's like somebody had put
a pair of monopoas in front of my eyes, and what I could see
this was the first view was a close up of the beams interlocking. The
second view was the nose, and it was that close I couldn't see any
more of the beams. I could just see the big round nose and the
way it had been manufactured was absolutely stunning. I remember thinking, this is
so beautiful. And then there was a third view, a side of you,
which showed a milky white core, and it showed the top and the
bottom joined this milky white corn. They rolled over like a hovercraft skin or
the edges of a pie that had been baked in. So there were three
distinct close up views now that allowed me to build the model to such a
great accuracy. This is an accurate reconstruction of the model. Without those extra
views, I wouldn't have been able to build this because from from my viewpoint,
there's no way we would have seen this side view. Here we only
saw the back and the top. So I thought for many years that I'd
had an out of body experience, but I meant I met a gentleman at
a UFO conference. I'm sure he would have heard of him, Bud Hopkins.
I met quite a few famous UFO researchers over the years, these come
to conferences that we had in Leeds in the north of England. Now I've
got five minutes with Bud. I told him the story of the craft,
how it teerialized, and then how I got these close views. And I
said to him, I think I had an out of body experience, and
Bud says to me, Nay says that that wasn't an out of body experience.
He says, they were images placed in your mind by the occupants on
board the craft. It was like telepathy. And I thought that sounds a
bit weird, that sounds a bit far out that and then somebody, this
was the woman who was in the queue, put it in and that was
the end of my conversation with Bud. Unfortunately, he couldn't expand on why
he thought that. But I still kept on clinging to the idea out of
body experience. I didn't take on board the telepathy. I tried to do
an out of body again and read books on it, but nothing happened.
And then one day, what had happened. I did a presentation in Birmingham
and I talked about the close viewing, and the guy there, Dave Holden,
said to me that he had a similar report where an alien got out
of a craft and this guy was standing on a farmer's gate quite a distance
away, but all of a sudden, the alien's face was right in front
of him, telling him to get away and move. He shouldn't be there.
I was thinking, that's very similar now, as coincidences go. Within
two weeks of that, I had an email from a guy in Connecticut,
in America, and he started off by saying, I've had a close encounter
with a triangle and just like you, I had three images placed in my
mind, three close up views. And he went on to tell me the
details of the craft that he saw. He thinks one of the views was
internal of the craft, but he's seen this from his car and the craft
got very close to him, and then there was some other interaction with it
as well. He's never told anybody that. He's not told mouf On or
anybody else. He's only got in touch with me because he saw one of
my presentations on the Internet. Now, when I read that, it was
like eureka. The penny dropped all of the sudden I realized Bud Hopkins was
right. I've been listening to a lot of David Jacobs stuff on the aductees
and everything is done by telepathy. Now a lot of the time images are
placed in people's minds. Now that would make sense. I've spent my whole
life working with images. That's what I do, and I'm still doing it
now. Actually I'm doing embroidery, designs, digitization of different logos, etc.
So my whole life has been spent around images, and an image paints
picture paints a thousand words. So it then became clear that what took place
was that during the closed encounter, and this took me a while to tetie
on board, an alien on board that craft had telepathy with me and put
those images into my mind. And over the years I have wondered whether the
first three thoughts that I had when the craft tilted up may have been telepathy
as well, because I didn't. It was like meeting God, even though
I'm not religious. It was beautiful, it was not frightening, it was
totally the opposite. You felt love and just felt flipping neck. This is
amazing, absolutely incredible, right, you know? So I believe right what
happened then, and I've put it all in the book. I started to
have some strange experiences after the event. Now, I was forty years old
when I saw the craft. In the first forty years of my life,
as far as I can recall, I had no paranormal experiences, no UFOs,
no ghost no nothing. Now, all of a sudden, after the
UFO, I'm starting to have some stranger things happening, paranormal things, and
I believe this hapms quite a lot with people. It's called the hitch Eiker
effect. I've even got a name for it now, whereby people who have
close encounters go on to other things happened to them. So I kept a
list of everything that took place, and I put the dates on as well.
I'd rather did that now put all of those into the book for about
eighteen months. It's certainly quite quite an off a lot now, but I'll
tell you about one of them. For instance, and this is such an
interesting one. I was at the river fishing. I love fishing. So
I'm down the river saw in Bothly in Leicestershire, actually standing in the water
in waders fishing, and I am loving it. I'm in my element.
I'm actually a beautiful thing to do and it's a lovely day. And then
I hear some footsteps coming across the field towards me, and I thought,
oh, that's could be some guys shooting from the farm. I've seen him
in the past, like so I'd better get up and make myself known that
I'm sitting at the river. Down at the river, so I climb quite
a big bank, climb up bank onto the towpath and there was nothing there,
but the noise was continuing and it was coming towards me, and there
was four footsteps, either two people or one big animal. And I started
to freak out a little bit here because it's getting closer and I can't see
anything. It's totally invisible. So in my rod hole, I've got an
umbrella with a big spike that you're sticking to the ground, so I took
that out for protection. And I was thinking what am I going to do?
And I thought before was it could have been a cat. So I
think if it's a big cat, because they do get released in the countryside,
and then it's going to come for me. I'm going to go back
down the bank of the river and get it to jump on me and impair
it on this spike that I've got. I mean, that's that was my
game plan. Oh, bricking it. I was really scared. I have
to say. Now, this thing, whatever it was, walked in front
of me, maybe six foot in front of me, and it went from
left to right, but not a blade of grass was moving, not a
trig was moving. And then it just started to fade away. So I
started hitting the grass with the pole that I got in the spike, and
then I put that in my arm and clapped my hands. Nothing came out,
and I stood there and it just went. And I thought, you
know that that wasn't here. That was somewhere else. You hear these things
where it's some sort of space time contingency. Something took place, but whatever
it was was not in our world. And that was the day, that
exact point that I realized that the UFO I had seen was not from outer
space. It's got to be dimensional, because it's left a residue with me,
and these other things are happening. And I wonder whether these other things
happen all the time, but we're just not aware of them. We're not
using our brain to pick them up. But from the UFO experience, for
the next eighteen months or quite a lot of things that took place that were
paranormal. And I know this was left over from the UFO because I had
nothing prior to the UFO. So I am absolutely convinced that these beings are
interdimensional. I don't believe they live in hollow Earth. I don't believe they
living, and they might live in the Earth, they might live in another
sea. But the way the encounter took place, it was almost like we
were in a different dimension ourselves for a short while, because the next day
when we went back from where we turned onto the Fosse Way, there's no
way we could have seen it. There were too many trees and bushes and
stuff in the way. It was almost like it was a different scenery.
But all of it was just so strange. But the gateway was still there
the next day. But yeah, the whole the whole thing at this high
strangeness about it. So that's pretty much the story, and it's calmed down
now. Though at the end of this chat, I'll tell you something that
happened just a couple of weeks ago to a friend of mine well to my
wife actually, so that generally is what took place, and that's why I've
become obsessed because of the telepathy. I believe, and it sounds odd,
but I believe I've had telepathy with an alien during that closing encounter, and
that was to build this the model. Yeah, I love the fact that
you seem like a regular well to do guy, you know, and like
somebody seeking attention, seeking, seeking fame or you know, this is just
your story, regular guy, and you had this encounter. So for you
to be able to share all of these little weird nuances like the telepathic communication,
feeling like you may have left your body, and then the paranorma that
continued to happen. I love that because it's always like, you know,
the woo woo people or you know, this crazy redneck farmer in the field
or something. But it's somebody that's got their stuff together. It's a professional
in your field, you're trusted with a lot of responsibility, and then you
have the encounter. So I really love the fact that that people are at
least talking about it. Let's say that, because maybe, yeah, maybe
those people have been having the encounters, they just don't want to talk about
it to seem woo woo crazy, you know stuff. Was there ever that
for you or was it just like way to make sense? I mean,
over the last twenty odd years, nearly twenty five years, I think there's
only been one of two people who have we ruled it. Everybody else has
gone with it, and a lot of them has actually said like, because
it's you, we believe you've seen something we need to see ourselves. I
mean, I needed to see it myself, but obviously I've got integrity and
people believe what I'm telling them to be honest. The amazing thing is the
amount of people that I've met in the UFO world over the last twenty five
years who have had experiences. So it's lovely talking to those people because I'm
not here to try and convert anybody to make them believe. I'm just telling
my story and it's to you whether you want to take it on board or
not. I mean the book, For instance, I went to a conference.
I was asked if I would do a presentation take my models along,
and I did that. I got quite nervous, but I managed to do
an hour's presentation which went really well, and then then a guy I called
them Philip Kins other of the twins, Philip and Ronald Kinsella. I've had
them both on Yeah, chatting with them, and they Philip said, well,
why don't you write a book. I said, well, I've thought
about writing the book, but not until I retire, and I'm not sure
what I'll be able to fill it. And said, we'll just do like
the extension of your presentation that you've done today. So I thought, right,
So I came home and I started writing the book. Now put me
in everything I've been talking about to yourself. But we didn't have enough to
fill the book. I was in touch with Philip Mantle, I've met him
many times over the years, and he was saying, we really need to
get some more sightings in there, some other people's experiences. So I worked
on it quite quite hard. And I'll produce the book because I want to
tell people my story. I haven't produced it because I want to make money.
That's not the point of the book. So what's happened. I've created
like this almost in hisilopedia. I've got a hundred thirty different close encounters in
the book. That is a phenomenal amount and not one of those sightings,
not two of those sightings are the same. They're all different, which it
gets through the TR three B theory. Yeah, that's the first thing that
comes to my mind when you show them maths, you know, because that's
the popular one, at least the ones they've released to us in the public
eye, and those kind of things. Well, it's what people that released
on the internet. But we've never got any definitive answer that they actually do
exist or photos do exist. I'm sure because I realized on that next day
that if I'd seen this UFO and they're real, I'm not the only one
that's done it. And the military must know about it. So they must
be working on these projects. But whether they can understand them or not,
I don't know. It would be a certain amount. Maybe there might be
materials that are not available on this planet that have come from other dimensions.
I believe from what I've heard from other abductees that they fly the at with
the mind, not with conventional equipment light. So to get a human to
try and fly an alien spacecraft must be very difficult. So yeah, so
the book. I created the book, and what I started to do when
people were writing to me with their own sightings was to ask if they've had
any other paranormal experiences, and I was getting more people saying yes than no.
God I knew it. I knew this would happen. It's the dimensional
thing. So all of these people, and I think the majority of them,
apart from myself, I seem to be a bit different to the others.
I've had paranormal experiences during childhood and growing up in the teens, and
all of it then culminates in the UFO experience. It's the other way around
me. I had nothing, had the UFO experience and started to have the
paranormal experiences afterwards. That has made me realize that there must be a lot
of people see a lot of things in this world, and they probably don't
talk about it. It probably might be scared to that from what they've seen.
Yeah, but the world is not as we imagine it to be.
It's not just the nuts and bolts and everything we see, and I see
it all in a different light. Now makes me laugh sometimes at the way
the humors are behaving and what the oilers must must think about us. But
the book has been very enlightened, seems, I mean it seems like they're
trying to help. It seems like they're trying to help, but we don't
know what we're looking at, and they're trying to show us things. One
of the first things that comes to me with my own experiences that I try
to find similarities in what you're sharing, is almost like they're trying to show
us free energy and technology. I mean, we read that all of the
ancient Holy books, right you said that, that's like, okay, this
ancient history, this explains it. When we read about that, there's all
of this stuff about how the angels taught man technology. They taught them all
types of really cool stuff that they didn't know. Mankind eventually learns how to
use it and uses it for evil for the most part, right you know,
rulers, and they keep it away from the regular people. Maybe this
is them trying to share this beautiful technology with regular people. I've seen many
different, you know, visions and estatic encounters where things are just not as
they seem and it seems like it's beyond my pay grade, Like why I
don't know what to do with this kind of thing. Someone like you,
maybe a little bit closer to you, making models right, I mean,
we're doing our part. I'll say that right where I got a podcast.
I'm at least now we're talking kind of thing, and I'm interested and to
see the bigger picture on the collective how it works. So that's that's a
wind for sure. But because when you look at the technology, whether it's
ancient or future technology both probably right. Have you seen the videos of like
what can be done with mercury, Like, there's really interesting videos of them
putting electricity to mercury. That is, that's a liquid, it'll start spinning
and then and then it'll solidify instantly by putting electricity or something to mercury.
Have you seen any of that, because that's what it seems like, you
know, that's what you said that the liquid looked like and then has the
ability to orph and chain shape instantly. We've seen those videos, you know,
yes, Yeah, that's good point. Now I watched a video.
Somebody sent me a video of a chap called boz a Mosa I think his
name was his own YouTube. He does an experiment with the quantum livitation.
So he gets a piece of metal and he freezes it down to zero degrees
Calvin. Then he puts it on a man exit field and it just goes
round and round, and if you stop it, it just sits in the
air with listening attached to it. But what amazed me about it was that
the amount of vapor that was coming off the piece of metal because the metal
was so cold. And then that gave me an idea that gave me a
theory. So this is the theory. But bear in mind, this is
not a man made craft. This is definitely Ailien because of the dimensional stuff
I've experienced since then. So, but what I wondered was the liquid on
the surface here, if that is something like liquid nitrogen or liquid mercury that's
freezing cold zero degrees Calvin. These beams on the surface, Now, if
these protrude through the transparent skin down into the liquid, all of these beams
then become superconductors. All of these beams are super chilled top had bottom.
And once you've got these are superconductors, you then got quantum lemitation. So
then the craft will just sit there in mid air and then you'll be able
to direct it whichever direction you want to go in. But rather than using
the normal proportion system, I think they're using quantum levitation using the liquid to
freeze these beams on the surface. Now, often you'll hear people talk about
pipes that look like refrigerator pipes running around underneath of a craft. And I've
got a picture in the book from Michael Shack that shows one of these craft
full of pipes running up and down the surface. Now, I surmise that
those pipes are carrying the liquid and so all of the pipework becomes a superconductor,
whereas this is slightly different. This is got like a whole lake of
liquid mercury with the beams inserted into it. But the end result is quantum
levitation. And because of the when it materialized, and we've got the little
vaporization that little clouds on the tips on the three tips of the craft,
that makes me suspect that it is extremely cold. But I don't know.
We're only guessing. But it is my theory that I've gone that one of
the things you said about you gazing at the craft and awe and in wonder
and your eyes are fixated, and then you feel like, you don't know,
if you had an out of body experience, there was this weird exchange
where you saw it right in front of you. I'm doing I do this
show, and I love having these conversations to work my own stuff out,
my own encounters and experiences. And it's interesting that you say that, because
just yesterday I'm in the backyard gazing at the sky and with the with the
question, which is what I do if what what if those clouds? What
if they're what if they're in the clouds traveling, watching over humanity coming closer.
They have jobs and roles, biblical type roles of maybe gathering souls when
souls die, assisting them, you know, just letting the mind wonder,
because that's how you figure things out. And I'm just looking and gazing in
the different types of clouds that are coming by, and and and I'm gazing
at it and literally for like you said, I mean it was only it
felt like just a second or two, I'm gazing. I'm looking at this
huge cloud I can see through and there's stuff moving, but it's just vapors
and clouds, right, You can't. I don't see any anything definitive to
say that's it. But it's like I'm acknowledging it as if it is.
Hey, I see you, I know you're in there. Hello, it's
passing right over me, and I'm looking at it, just gazing, and
then all of a sudden, like you said, boom, right there in
your vision, like the clouds disappeared. And it was just like the great
It was just up close, like all of the definition disappeared. And I
saw the clouds up close. I didn't see a craft. I didn't see
aliens or anything like that. It was just it was in front of me.
Everything morphed into one and it was in front of me. But I
even even yesterday, you know, just and you're sharing that and it's these
little and I've had something similar like that before, of just gazing, feeling
like you're you know, into the stars or whatever, trying to look and
just see you're up there. Scary, it feels strange, but but I
do practice the art of gazing at different things and and and the clouds is
one of the things that I look at, and you know, maybe maybe
that's in us that we can tap into that or if it's an exchange said
they allow you. I think there's a lot more insiders than what we realize.
I now believe it wasn't an out of body experience. I do believe
it was them telepathy. The interesting thing about that is the other occupants of
the car, and the wife and daughter from mother in law, they never
went on to have any other experiences, but they also didn't have any telepathy
that night. So my belief is that by showing me the images of close
spemies of the craft, they've tapped into some part of my brain and left
it open for a while, which allowed all these other things to come through,
which I believe are always here, but we're just not aware of them
because that part of the brain is not working. But the more people you
talk to, the more information you gather, you start to look for.
What I've always looked for is the connections and similarities between sightings. So you
get somebody in South America and somebody in America and somebody here talking about the
craft and the way they move. I remember one guy I had seen the
triangle. He said that the way it moved was like if you get a
sheet onto a bed. You've got the four corners. You put the sheet
on the bed and it's got air trapped in it, and as the air
comes out, the sheet comes down onto the bed. Whenever that I thought,
yeah, you've seen one. I know you've seen one, because you're
describing exactly the movement that I've seen. You need to see it to describe
it. In fact, the majority of the people in this book, when
they talk about the craft, they talk about it gliding its movement, and
they don't talk about it moving like a normal aircraft like it's always in this
terms of just gliding along like a like a fluid motion like a craft underwater,
and sometimes have been seen with the blunt end first as well. So
they're not aerodynamics as such. The shape is not done. I don't think
the aerodynamics. I think it's done for stability rather than their dynamics because of
the proportion system are using. It's just fantastic to talk to so many people
around the world and you thing I've always wound about is like I now realized
that these creatures that they're so more intelligent than we are, so advanced they
are there. God knows what they're doing, and while they keep hiding from
everybody all the time. And then he select a certain feud. But what
took that place, what took place that night down the Foss Way, It
was done on purpose, That was not accidental. There was nobody else involved
with us, and it allowed us to see it close to now many people
are seeing in the top of a triangle. Most people only ever seen the
bottom because they're flying overhead going to go. One account in the book of
somebody else who wasn't looking down into a value, who saw the top of
a triangle. So that night they went to a lot of trouble to show
us and to show me, especially the craft and the details of the craft.
We all knew it was not from this world, but the extra details
and showed to me it was amazing. And then you think, well,
why was they watching us in the pub as well? And did they follow
his own? We had a lot of le problems at home The next day
somebody suggested that the triangle followed his own and scanned the house to see what
our reaction was if we were doing perhaps what they wanted us to do.
I mean, is my part in all of this subtle disclosure? I know
I've spoke to millions of people now around the world and showing the model,
but I'm hoping it does do something, because otherwise, why have I've gone
to all this effort. I've written a book I've made models, done all
these podcasts that I'm not you know, I'm getting used to them. But
it's not something I've relished doing. But I've done it to spread the word.
And is that what my part is. It's not going to be a
big thing, like I'm not going to be on national television in America standing
there with an agent or anything. It's all very subtle, you know.
So maybe over the years my book will get read by more people. There's
more triangles there, a scene, but I can't help feeling that it was
done for a purspose, but I can't figure out exactly what that purpose is.
Let me ask you this. So I've I catched things on camera and
this is my life too, very strange, right, and this is just
what I do. And I've I saw for the first time, I've never
seen any videos and I I have been scouring the Internet for years and watching
anything I can find as far as footage and different crafts and pyramid crafts and
all kind of crazy things out there. Right, But I found, for
the first time, from from my experience, I filmed it a craft that
looked like or I say, craft could be a living being. Right,
There's that you said, it seems like it's alive. There is that that
that looked like a marcaba. So it looked like a tetrahedron to where it's
two triangles interlocking. You know, there's a you know in the in the
Spiritual New Age movement, you see that symbol everywhere. It's a macabo symbol.
It's like the Star of David, but it's three D. Yeah,
I saw. I've got it on camera flying around going to the sun and
depositing things out, the white things out the bottom that go and they it's
a whole bunch of them and they deposited into the sun. Have you heard
of anything like that, because I've never seen anything yet. Other people are
saying, yeah, we've seen something similar. But the mircabo ones there's I've
got a bunch of them on on camera. But that's kinds I feel drawn
too, because it was just different. I haven't seen that exact shape.
I haven't seen two triangles together, no, I have. I have seen
a sphere. This was only a couple of about about three years ago.
Now joined the lockdown over here and was that walking the dog and it was
like a big metallic ball and it was just going along and on one side
of it, like a crescent shaped white light was flashing. It was flashing
on and off, but it wasn't steady. It was like like it was
out of control. It was like flash flash stop stop, flash flash flash
stop. And I'll watched it for quite a while and it was down in
the earth atmosphere. By the time I seen it disappearing, I could see
fields behind it, so that was pretty exciting. But that's I've seen a
little spears in the sky, but I haven't seen anything like the first encounter.
I've not seen another another triangle before I forget you mentioned the pyramid Dad.
This is the book that of written. If anybody's interested, it's available
on Amazon, Triangle, UFOs or the United Kingdom. I'll read you a
little bit for me if you don't mind, won't take long. A lady
called Lindsay Kerner Nottingham. He says, my friend was three years older than
me and we were unemployed at the time. We decided to go and visit
Dad's property at ten to fifteen minutes walk away, and we arrived at eight
to nine pm. The house had a football pitch just beyond the back garden
with wild space surrounding it. The weather had been dry all day. When
we came to leave late that night, we glanced over to the football pitch
fire an entrance. We both spotted the mist and a pyramid, so we
decided to go and investigate. The pyramid object was the size of a council
house and not quite on the ground, but hovering just above the ground by
about a foot or two. The pyramid looked to be made of glass and
was transparent. I could see swirls of colored gas inside a yellow, blue
green in fat like a rainbow. As they approached the pyramid, it backed
away from them, but when they backed away, the pyramid returned to its
original position. The craft at that point became solid. In fact, Lindsay
described it as metallic, with Egyptian hieroglyphs on all the sides. One of
these hieroglyphs was a and with a bird's head carrying a long spear. Lindsay
and a friend became nervous and decided to go home, where they believe they
lost between half to three quarters of how in time. They went back to
have a look later when it had gone now, she phoned me all excited
and told me that twice she phoned me to talk about that makes you told
I couldn't believe it. I mean Egyptian hieroglyphs on the side of the pyramid
shape UFO on a football pitch in Nottingham. I think this is incredible and
I believe it. I believe every story in the book is true. I
don't believe anybody's making up because you wouldn't want to bring ridicule on yourself.
You wouldn't do this unless you had a proper experience. You wouldn't have the
courage to go through with it. Yeah, there's some fascinating encounters in this
book. Wow, for sure. Definitely, definitely people need to check it
out. In the imagery and the stories. You know, it's a you
know, once you from me interview so many people and talk to so many
people, you look for consistency. You look like a commonality. It's like,
okay, here's the deal. If for skeptics or whatever, something's going
on. Something's going on. So it's not that you know, all of
all of these people are lying or they're thinking they're seeing something else. And
know there's too many people and people are together seeing the same thing. Now,
what what does your wife and everyone else say about the experience, because
obviously that's a you know, it's very interesting how two people have the same
experience and one is like, yeah, that was strange, and you're just
like obsessed, right, you talk about the teleopathy and stuff like that,
but even still just seeing it, like, you know, change your life.
I mean, I'm the same way with the encounters I've had. I've
had people with me who they like, they don't talk about it, and
I can't stop talking about it, you know. Yeah. Yeah, My
my daughter was twelve at the time, and she just took it in a
stride, to be honest, even now, like she knows, but she
saw something very strange and she saw the triangle. She drew the same pictures
that I did. The mother in law. She was really excited. Fortunately,
like to say, she died just three or four years ago. Now.
When we cleared out her bedroom, I found all these newspaper cuttings on
power normal stuff. She'd never talked about any of this in all of her
life. So she's obviously had some sort of experiences in the past. So
yes, so she was really taken with it. Now, my wife because
she was driving and being sensible, she didn't actually see the craft materialize.
By the time she pulled forward and reversed into the gateway, it had gone.
So just me, my mother in law, and my daughter saw the
actual craft materialize. My mother in law described it the same. So she
said, we've got girders on the surface, is how she described it.
So when we all drew pictures, I got my wife to draw a picture,
and this is an interesting thing. She drew three red lights in a
perfect triangle. It's not a shiny red light at the moment, but term
a perfect triangle, no white light in the middle. She saw three red
lights in a perfect ego actual triangle. Now, like I say, when
we approached the craft, it was tilted an angle like this with the nose
down. There is no way that she could have seen three red lights in
a perfect egolatual triangle. So what I believe may have happened is that the
little craft in front of us, because it was like the side, it
would be about one hundred feet across the bottom, maybe eighty feet out,
the size of a bus or a small house. Like what I believe happened.
A new theory that this was an ambush. This was the bait,
and my mother in law and my daughter, we were transfixed on this thing
and watching it, watching the lights and watching it materialize, and then watching
it maneuver in front of us. But my wife was looking forward on the
road, and I think what she may have seen was the underneath of the
large craft that when we jumped out of the car we've seen going away from
us, And so I think there's a possibility that the small craft went back
to this large mothership, and what my wife drew was the underneath of the
mothership as it passed over the car. I've put a drawing in the book
that shows that that shows how the ambush would have worked. And looking at
the trajectory of the craft going away from us, it would make sense that
it did actually come over the car during the course of the ambush from the
little one that was right next to us almost landed. So that is a
possibility. I mean the other thing when I say she couldn't have seeing three
red lights. There was no craft at the time when we first approached it.
It was just lights and it was incredible to see. Now what I've
got here is yet another model. This one is transparent. I've made this
one so that you get an idea. I think that that's how we got
to start engaging really like that. What transparent like that? So why was
it tilted at an angle like this? I believe it's because as we're driving
along, we get to see the underneath, so we get to see more
lights instead of it being flat where we'd only see the lights sided. By
tilting up, it's showing more lights. But that shows intent, doesn't it
that they've done that on purpose to grab our attention? And when there's where
there's intent, there's a purpose, isn't there behind it? I don't you
know? It was almost like I was unmistakable, and that's why I built
this sea though version look at without the lights and it's quite quite spectacular,
and that's how it appeared when we first arrived before it actually then morphed into
a solid object and then started floating around in front of us. Wow.
I mean, the whole thing was just like being in a fantastic movie set.
It was incredible. Absolutely. Yeah. It's so strange when you have
those encounters and it's all in hindsight, because you have an encounter like that
and then you can go back and watch Star Wars or something and see similar
things in the movie where somebody is probably has probably had these experiences before too.
Yeah, felt that the best way to talk about it, or to
share it with the world is to make a movie and you know, hide
all that stuff in there, like little things that are that are said by
the characters, and names of planets even that go back to the ancient world
there. It's little nuances that I feel like, you don't you don't it
has to be in hindsight at all the triangle ships and do they have circles
on the bottom and you start to see them and things like that under they
have beams on the surface and things like that. I've seen this on some
of the programs. Was over here actually, but people have taken my model
and they've started to reproduce it and show it in UFO documentaries on Netflix,
which is nice, I guess for them to copy mycraft. And right before
we get towards the end, I just want to something which is really odd.
You might appreciate this, but ten I've never talked about this before because
it's only just happened. Actually, so my wife was with me at the
time, we're no longer together, but we're still good friends. So we're
separated and now I'm remarried. So my latest wife does not believe in UFOs
and aliens, but she's got a great sense of you. She doesn't mind
me getting involved with it, and she's always winding me up, like you
know, saying all that UFO will be said, I got that sky light
in the sky and all that. So about two weeks ago, she works
nice, she works in a care home. She came home early three o'clock
in the morning. She drove through the town of Hinklin. Now we live
in Barwell, which is a village just outside of Inkley. There's a little
bit of countryside in between the two. So she's driving along at three o'clock
in the morning, there's no other traffic around, and she passes a tree.
She sees what looks like a light gets switched on. Then as she
comes out from the clearing of the tree to the low hedge, she stopped
the car and there was a triangle. She showed me the distance she thinks
it was away, which I reckon is about two hundred yards, and she
said it was huge and it was the height of two houses, and it
was completely white. It was so bright that it lit up the farmer's field
below, and she thought to herself, this is one of them triangles.
Collins was on about and just got scared and drove off came back home.
The funny thing was she came in though it was three in the morning.
You did wake me up when she came in, But she forgot to tell
me about it. If she'd have told me there and then I would have
gone straight out in the car because only got a mile away. It wasn't
until the next day when she's seen a report about UFO she goes, Oh,
I forgot to tell you last night, I've seen one of your triangles.
Now, how weird is that? Now? What is the chances of
that occurring? I reckon, it's pretty slim. The chances of seeing a
UFO of any sort is pretty slim. But to see a triangle so close,
when I've been banging on about them for twenty five years, it's almost
like a message. Now, a lot of people listening to this might think
that's I've made it up. I know, Philip, my agent wanted me
to do a press release to say that my wife had seen a triangle.
But I was thinking, well, people are not going to believe this because
it just seems too real that that would occur. But it did occur,
and that it's got me wondering why I can't believe again it was just a
coincidence. I mean, it's just incredible. I don't know why that has
occurred unless it's just too She obviously now believes in and it makes my life
a bit easier. Yeah. Yeah, I mean even just for that,
just to support you and your work and less stress and know that you're supported
in your household, for sure. That does a lot, even just for
you sharing your story and you know, being encouraged for sure. So I
mean she's down cooking dinner at the moment while so I'm here chatting away.
So she's obviously knows what I'm up to, and she's quite happy with it.
I just it makes you think, are you being monitored? How they're
watching? You know? Is it more to this? I don't know.
Yeah, the whole subject is so strange. Yeah, well that's for me.
That's the powerful thing about it that you know, it makes you wonder.
It doesn't make everybody wonder that. If you wonder that and That's the
I think the the important part for you to wonder and then to go out
and ask and maybe live your life like you're being watched. What would you
do if you were? And and if you know they're watching you, how
about you watch them? Go out? I know you're out there. Where
are you? You know that kind of thing and what happens? I mean,
have you looked into that phenomena at all, that the C five and
five? No? No, I haven't, no, but I do remember
in the early days, and I'd often see lights in the sky and they'd
be stopping and turning through ninety degrees, so I know it wasn't normal,
and that would often occur after I've been watching some UFO videos or DVDs,
getting immersed in it, and then going out the back to have a cigar,
as I used I don't smoke anymore, but I'd go out and then
I'd see something moving in the sky. I even bought camcorder to try and
record these things. Remember one I'm watching this star coming cross and I thought
it was a satellite. It's coming across, and it stopped, turned through
ninety degrees. I got my camera with pull the camera gone just like I
thought, he going crazy. He's using the plot here and I had to
calm myself down. No, No, I did see it. I know
it was there. But yeah, one another one they're in the book.
A big ball of orange light inside a cloud over the park, a really
wet, damp night. I've been to a UFO conference enough and I'll just
come back. It's on Sunday night again. I went to get the camera
and this time and I picked the camera up, I thought to myself,
Oh, no, what's going to happen. It's going to go. Sure
enough when I got back to the window gone. So it makes you wonder,
like if you have a close encounter in the future, If anybody listening
to this Caesar Craft, I think the first thing to do is to enjoy
it and just look at it and try and take the detail in. I
think if you get your phone out to take a picture, it's going to
go. If you get a picture, people won't believe it. It'll probably
be distorted anyway. So yeah, enjoy the moment is what I would say.
That's so true. I mean I tried to do the same thing early
on, having an awesome sighting, and then here I go try to run
to get my phone, and the phone's not good enough to even record the
stars and stuff anyway, and it's like, you know, you're kind of
jumping out of the experience and it's gone versus just I mean, even now
I'm actually catching stuff on camera now. But I think for the most part,
I kind of know what to look for in which areas to film and
things like that. But but it is about being in the moment and then
you want to always go get the phone. It was actually a big,
big learning thing for me, and I've been in this for a long time
too, and it's just something recently I've been able to get my phone in
film and then really go back and edit footage too to see if you if
there's even anything, just because I know kind of nuances and stuff to look
for, and then how to edit lights so that you can see objects that
are cloaked to the naked eye anyway. Yeah, yeah, there's that.
Yeah, yeah, But have you let me ask you this before we go
with all the stories and all the research too, have you seen or heard
of any any I know you say you haven't seen, but possibly videos any
of them that are like square or like rectangle like with with those with those
right angles, like any types of ship or any anomaly like that. Yeah,
I've seen quite a few like that. I've got a good doing in
the book. Actually a triangle that guy witnessed and when he looked up underneath
it in searching inside it was another triangle, the smaller one which I've got
the lights on. There was also a rectangular shaped UFO that was also trapped
underneath of the last triangle. And funnily enough, only a couple of days
ago, I was readingally Pored. I can't remember where I got it from.
And this guy had seen a triangle over her house as a woman who
saw it, and she phoned the woman up in the house and she didn't
know that there was a triangle above her house. While she was watching it,
it transformed itself into a square, So it went from a triangle to
a square. And I've heard that once once or twice along the way.
Yeah, I do believe there are these square objects floating around out there.
Mm hmm. Wow. Man, thank you for your work, and if
you if you if you have any more encounters or you want to come back
on here and talk, I'm open anytime. If you can't if you have
any new hypothesis. I mean, that's the big thing too. What is
who are they? And what do they want? Right? And that doesn't
even when you're talking about having this you know, telepathic communication kind of thing.
Your dreams get pretty interesting. Your dream always been. My dreams have
always been very interesting, you know, full color for long. I've even
managed to take control of the dream because I've figured out I was dreaming.
It takes a bit of doing at times, and then I know, doing
some of my dreams, I've tested myself. So I have jump off this
cliff. Now I'm going to be a while because I'm dreaming. No,
I thought, well that is if I'm not dreaming, you know, a
little back to way. So yeah, I've always had plenty of bib bely
dreams along the way. Well, I guess before we go, I mean,
what is it? Who are they? You know, like it's I
believe from my own research, we have we have grays, obviously, the
smaller grays. I think there were some taller grays. There's Nordics, reptilians,
and at the top of the tree seemed to be the pray mantus type
aliens they seem to be the ones that are in charge. And I believe
the dimensional that's as much as I know. I mean, I don't know
which dimension. It might be several dimensions that they're coming from, but that's
what I truly believe on hundred percent, that these are dimensional beings. And
I think they've always been around. There must be several parallel universes running alongside
our Own'd be fascinating to see, wouldn't it if it popped over to their
dimension? Would they have the same planetary systems and milky ways and things that
we've got on our dimension. Oh, it's incredible, isn't It's incredible?
It is it is, And I ponder I think our gaze, I study,
I do all of it, and and it's so beautiful. I feel
like there's not enough hours in the day when it comes to this, you
know, the majesty and the awe and the wonder about all of this stuff
in this subject and what it's done for my life, and obviously what it's
done for you and many of our listeners people listening, they've they've had very
similar experiences and uh, and I know your work's helping them so much.
Yeah, I hope. So yeah, I mean without my experience, I'm
freaking out a bit. So I wish I could have got a book like
the one that I've produced and read that that would have calmed me down.
So if the's anybody out therese has an experience and they're a bit on their
own and they want some something to read to calm them down, and my
books do the job. So where's the best place to get it? Would
be Amazon? Amazon. Yeah, it's available on Amazon. It's on them.
It's on a kindle, hard backs, soft back and audiobook. Is
so Triangle UFOs in the United Kingdom by Collins, I wonders. I can't
believe I've actually written a book as well. So that's how much this subject
is has influenced me too to get involved. There's no way I can leave
it alone now actually, so yeah, yeah, right, I've got the
book. I've done what I'm going to do. Maybe maybe maybe there'll be
another one that's Carlin. Thanks so much for hanging out with me, man,
it was a good, good conversation. Thanks for sharing your story.
Yeah, I didn't do it again. Incredible as it says, it's all
true, Derek. I hope your listeners enjoy it, so thanks for having
me on. I've really enjoyed it. Yeah, we'll have to do it
again. Thank you, Thank you you take care.