WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.520 Do you enjoy Plant Debty Podcast. Do you find yourself listening to us going 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:07.879 on and on about plants after more than one hundred episodes, then consider supporting 3 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:11.560 us on Patreon, where official patrons get access to our show ad free with 4 00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:14.640 a little bonus after show that we started recently as well, or you could 5 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:17.519 just fund us a cup of coffee to keep the planty talk coming, or 6 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:20.600 tell a friend or leave a positive review, and as always, thank you 7 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:27.519 for listening and supporting us in any way that works for you. And we're 8 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:45.479 live. This is Plant Debty Podcast. I'm Matthew and I'm Stephen. I'm 9 00:00:45.479 --> 00:00:49.280 going to start by saying we chose a strange one today, and not slightly 10 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:53.240 strange, but like we really went for it. We sure did. It 11 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:57.520 wins the award for all at sleeves on any Plants and has been described as 12 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.399 unlike any known plant on Earth. When the keeper of the Q Royal Botanical 13 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:04.719 Gardens someone in eighteen sixty three, he said, it is out of the 14 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:08.799 question, the most wonderful plant ever brought to this country and one of the 15 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:15.239 ugliest. Yes, I can see that. So we're going to cover care 16 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:19.840 info for the few of you who may have one or actually want one. 17 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:23.319 But to me, this episode is more about cultivating unusual house plants, using 18 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:27.920 this plant as an example, like how we experience that and why we'd even 19 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:32.680 want to at least my answers to those questions. So if you're into less 20 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:34.920 common house plants or not, maybe I'll enjoy a little visit to that world 21 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:41.799 or mindset or hearing my attempts to explain it. And shocker, Matthew comes 22 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:44.280 at this from a different angle. Yeah, to me, this isn't even 23 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:49.879 an uncommon house plant. It is a true evolutionary and botanical marvel that I 24 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.280 am fascinated by. But honestly, I've never even considered growing it, and 25 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:57.480 I probably won't even after we talk about it, which is often a great 26 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:01.439 catalyst for me to expand further into a genus or family beyond what I've already 27 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:07.040 grown in preparation for an episode. So today Stephen and I are really swapping 28 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.400 hats. I know that we say that sometimes, but I can't think of 29 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:14.039 the last time that we discussed a plant that I have literally never even touched. 30 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:16.400 Yeah, and I think I've at least touched most of the ones I 31 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:21.599 don't grow that we've covered. Yeah, so that's an interesting point. In 32 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:24.960 the wild, this plant looks like a massive pile of drying out seaweed, 33 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:30.800 while in cultivation it might look more like a really sad amaryllis. Yeah, 34 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:35.439 okay, you're looking at the wrong ones. Also, you're calling an amaryllis 35 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:39.039 logical looking. That's a bold way to start this episode. Anyway, I'm 36 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:43.159 going to put together a slideshow of the cute ones for you after. Oh 37 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:46.400 perfect. I know I'm being a little harsh, but I'm curious to see 38 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.240 what I can get out of Stephen about his interest in cultivating a plant like 39 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.599 this. Is it the pure novelty of just what it is, rather than 40 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:59.280 what you might expect to achieve from it. I'm not a stranger to that 41 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:04.479 plant experience, it's myself, but to my relatively naive outsider perspective today, 42 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:07.520 I really don't understand the appeal of growing one of these if it won't ever 43 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:15.199 reach that wild and indescribably dead kelp look, and Seattle certainly doesn't seem like 44 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:17.120 a place where we could ever hope to achieve that, at least as a 45 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:23.159 house plant. I'll do my best. Cool, Okay, So we've talked 46 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:27.439 about my skepticism of commercial grow lights and how I've come around now that I've 47 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:30.240 seen about my super sleek and handsome aspect pendant light can do for my plants. 48 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:34.759 But what about you, Stephen, How do you like your Soulfex Solutions 49 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:37.840 plant light now that you've had it for a few weeks. Well, I'll 50 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:40.560 admit that I wondered about their power at first two, but I went ahead 51 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:45.800 and tried one of my largest succulent shrubs, a Kleinia narrow folia if you're 52 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:50.719 curious under my soul Tech aspect light, and it's thriving. So this awesome 53 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:53.400 plant, previously out of the way under DIY grow lights, is finally in 54 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:58.280 a place under my sleek Soultech light in my living space where I can better 55 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.680 enjoy it. Soulfect plant lights but enough warm white light that it's surprisingly easy 56 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:06.000 to properly light even fairly large, bushy plants that would never fit on micro 57 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:10.120 rax. Yeah, and you showed me photos of power looks in your home, 58 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:13.599 and honestly, I never guess it's a plant lights right. Soultech's high 59 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:17.040 quality, full spectrum photosynthetic plant lights last for up to fifteen years and come 60 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:20.680 with great customer service, free shipping, five year warranty and more. We're 61 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:25.959 excited to offer our listeners fifteen percent off their products with Code Plant Debty Podcast 62 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:29.439 to get the sexiest plant lights money can buy. Do you think that's what 63 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:33.519 we're selling it? Honestly? No. Checkout soultech Solutions dot com and don't 64 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:38.040 forget Code Plant Debty Podcast at check out to get fifteen percent off your order. 65 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.839 Okay, what is it? Why is it interesting? Gosh? Where 66 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:47.720 do we begin? Okay, well, give me your sales pitch, But 67 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:50.920 I think that I want to give the general description of the plant from my 68 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.519 position as an outsider to growing it, who has been aware of this plant 69 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:59.079 for a long time and then researched it pretty in depth for this episode. 70 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.199 Okay, bearing in my you already called it dead kelp, But all right, 71 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:06.079 I'll allow that. All right. What if I told you you could 72 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:11.000 have a plant that a dinosaur also gazed upon, or you know, a 73 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:15.079 descendant more or less like based on the fossil record inserts stunned speechlessness. Good. 74 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:19.680 What if I told you this smallish house plant could live for thousands of 75 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:25.600 years and it only has two constantly growing leaves if you're doing it right, 76 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:29.560 and it's dioecious, so you might get a male or female and you'll be 77 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:33.519 surprised. We promise we're not making this out. I like that escalation. 78 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:38.600 Good. Okay. Do you like plants that are kind of fragile but also 79 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.879 ridiculously rugged? I do? Okay, So why does this sound like a 80 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.759 tinder profile all of a sudden, prefers deserts over mountains, not big on 81 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:53.160 drinking, will definitely out there view. I'd sweat bread. Also, I'll 82 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:59.639 caution but also advertise this plant has not earned the Royal Botanical Society a Ward 83 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:03.040 of Guard merit that we're so fond of drat. Yeah. As we get 84 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:05.800 into this, I think you'll get a sense of why it's probably not in 85 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:10.879 the running. But to me, that too can be exciting sometimes. Okay, 86 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.879 okay, So Matthew, how is this all sitting so far? I 87 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:15.959 mean you hit the key highlights for sure. Here's what I would like to 88 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:21.360 add and also elaborate on. Willwichi A mirabilis is the only species in its 89 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:27.040 genus, which is the only genus in the wiwichi Aca family. So we 90 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:30.959 love a monotypic plant, and this one really takes that to another level. 91 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:34.920 It's a native of the Namib Desert from Namibia to Angola, and it's actually 92 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:38.720 on the coat of arms of Namibia. As a matter of fact, they 93 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.920 didn't know that. Very cool, yep. It is generally known as Willwichia, 94 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:46.399 but another common name is tree tumbo, and of course it has a 95 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:49.199 lot of local names that I cannot allow us to disgrace with our failure and 96 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:54.600 pronunciation. Sensible choice. Yeah, thank you so. According to one earth 97 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:59.279 dot Org in a documentary called Namib Surviving the Sand Sea, this species is 98 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:02.879 thought to date back to the Mesozoic period, where dinosaurs first appeared some two 99 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:06.680 hundred million years ago. I'm just gonna let that sit for a while, 100 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:13.079 right, So, current living plants are also comparatively ancient, and it's thought 101 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:16.839 that the oldest living specimens are between one thousand and three thousand years old, 102 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:23.000 making them among some of the oldest organisms on Earth. Sounds like you're agreeing 103 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:25.120 with me so far, Matthew. Yeah, like I said, you hit 104 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:28.800 the key highlights. But perhaps some of the most unusual traits about this plant 105 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.800 anatomically, also, like you said, is that it only produces two and 106 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:39.800 sometimes but rarely three, strap like leaves with parallel veins that are sort of 107 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:45.279 grayish green, two surprisingly rigid, never ending ribbons. Basically, they just 108 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:49.959 continuously grow for thousands of years and with time will split and fray into these 109 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:57.319 ribbony curls and then dry out as the centuries pass. But the original leaves 110 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:01.360 that sprout after the catalitin are the only leaves it will ever have. Right 111 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:05.680 again, the catal lieden being the very first little leaf a plant grows after 112 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:09.720 sea germinates. Anyway, Yeah, and oddly to me, the cattalleedens have 113 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:15.120 reticulate veining instead of parallel but that's just an aside. Okay. So imagine 114 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.439 being free of the pressures of waiting for those new leaves on your aeroids. 115 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:22.680 Aren't those leaf jumps in your nependees? Yeah, when you get stressed by 116 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.480 what might be going wrong when a plant gets browning tips, you won't have 117 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.279 to hear this plant is browning tips. Yeah, Okay, as you would 118 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.360 expect with only having two leaves for the whole tremendously long life of a plant 119 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:41.600 that takes place in such an inhospitable environment. Perhaps because of this, the 120 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:46.840 relatively quite young plants and cultivation look rather different from the massive ancient specimens in 121 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.879 the wild, which, if you google for pictures that may not be a 122 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:54.200 bad thing. The older plants are amazing, but you know they're kind of 123 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.080 serving a particular look. I'll say, yeah, dead kelp piles a dead 124 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:03.039 kelp. They have this woody, bilobed crown that with age takes on a 125 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:11.000 gnarled, tortured appearance, like a giant mound of twisted cork with lichen growing 126 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:15.879 on it. And it's surrounded by piles of these split and frayed leaves. 127 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:18.879 So while the plant itself is never much taller than four or five feet, 128 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:24.759 sometimes almost reaching six, it might have a spread of twenty six feet. 129 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.039 And like you said, plants are either male or female, and I'll talk 130 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:33.480 about that in the botanical section. But Stephen, this is the first gymnasperm 131 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:39.000 that we are deliberately discussing on the show. I'm so excited. Yeah, 132 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:43.559 to each his own, I suppose. Yeah, So what are the ideal 133 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:48.799 recommended growing conditions? And before you say anything, I really enjoy when you 134 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.440 take a wild slash informed stab in the dark. For the care of a 135 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.080 plant that you've never grown. So here are my guesses. Okay, because 136 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:03.440 it's natural habitat is the Namib dessert. They get virtually no rainfall, but 137 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:09.639 they have frequent fogs and a very deep tap root that accesses groundwater. This 138 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.559 ecosystem is very hot, and they live in an unprotected sunny environment. So 139 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:20.519 I would guess that they need an unexpectedly and ridiculously deep pot that you have 140 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.759 to keep them pretty hot with really intense lights. Grow them on the dry 141 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:30.480 side with low humidity. But there might be something really odd thrown in there 142 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:33.519 too, like use a substrate that doesn't have much capillary actions so that they 143 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:37.720 can sit in a little water sometimes but stay dry in the top three cores 144 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:43.200 of the pot. Or maybe you use a different substrate at the very bottom 145 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.960 to retain more moisture while the crown of the plant itself always stays dry. 146 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:52.799 Okay, these are all great guesses. I think your plant would do relatively 147 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:56.039 well. Oh cool, cool, Okay. So I am going to explain 148 00:10:56.120 --> 00:11:01.759 the up to the minute current thinking as I understand it. Okay, And 149 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:05.759 yes, like that's vague, maybe you're thinking like WTF, But here's one 150 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.399 of the unusual plant moments that are exciting for me, Like there's guesswork and 151 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:15.000 you have to rely on the other experiences and skills you've had, and yeah, 152 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.279 like maybe that's exciting you rather than care guides that are all over the 153 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.519 internet. Yeah, if only. Okay, So the best that I know 154 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:26.759 now basically the most light that you can provide the grow in southern Arizona that 155 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.159 I got mine from said that they like just to touch off their highest light 156 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.919 there if that helps. It's super intense there, pretty relentless, So we 157 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:37.639 could not give them too much here and see, oh probably not. Okay, 158 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.320 Now, how flexible are these because I would think that maybe like a 159 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.720 south window wouldn't even be enough in our particular latitude. So is this like 160 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:52.759 a grow lights required plants? Yeah, so I would I have mine under 161 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:54.759 grow lights. I would put them undergrow lights. I do have a friend 162 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:58.440 here who's growing one in a window and it just apparently doesn't grow very quickly, 163 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:01.919 So maybe it's possible in a window though. Okay, so if you 164 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.240 give them too little, won't just like etiolating get sad, not that I 165 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:11.399 have heard. Okay, okay, okay, Next I would take pretty extreme 166 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:16.039 care when repotting. There is that tap root you mentioned. It's pretty delicate, 167 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.480 it could be damaged pretty easily. So most people seem to repot only 168 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:24.120 once after germination, maybe after the plant is a year or so old, 169 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:28.440 So there's a huge pot size jump to where it will live like forever ish 170 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.879 in that next spot, and probably deeper pots. Like you said, that 171 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:35.759 was a hard and fast rule before, but people seem to agree a little 172 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:41.039 less on that recently. As far as soil goes, I honestly don't quite 173 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.799 know, at least not to the level of specificity that I usually prefer. 174 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:48.879 I've been told that, like quote, standard cactus mix is fine, so 175 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:54.639 whatever works for your other plants. Possibly, I will know more when I 176 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.759 repot mine. I guess I'll take a look at what it's actually in and 177 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:00.679 then you know, I can see what my mix does. So TBD, 178 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.120 Okay, I hope I'm not just like prying for something that you've just told 179 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.240 me that you don't know, But like, can you get away with a 180 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:11.159 commercial bag mix or do you need more of the sort of standard recipe that 181 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:15.159 dedicated second one growers tend to use, Like what inspired your preferred recipe. 182 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.799 Yeah, so the nursery called, they set a standard mix that they sell, 183 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:22.480 and I would guess a little bit more organic material than the one that 184 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:26.559 we use. Okay, so when I RePOP mine, I'm probably going to 185 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.159 use our mix at a bit more organic material just because I word, it's 186 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.159 going to dry out and thoughts and prayers please, okay, tell me about 187 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.720 the watering then, so they're never let it quite dry out. This is 188 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.480 easier with a deep pot. Like we've said, it's not as hard as 189 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:45.759 it sounds, actually, because I've achieved this pretty much of the past eighteen 190 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.759 months or so. But treating this like a cactus or succulent, letting it 191 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:54.279 dry out completely, that seems like the number one reason people lose these again, 192 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.399 seems because there's not a ton of cultivation info out there. That is 193 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.840 so counterintuitive. Yeah, this was tough, and I think it has been 194 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.159 for people for a while with these. Oh so maybe this is a plant 195 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:09.440 for those like tall, narrow clay rose pots that we both like in appearance 196 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.679 spect impracticality. Yeah, so when I make my slideshow, you will see 197 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.399 that it's a very particular pot look that people feel brave enough to put these 198 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.240 in Yeah, all right, so what else? Okay, it responds well 199 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.919 to fertilizers, which I wouldn't have guessed really. Okay, I guess at 200 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:30.240 first that sounds weird, but then I remember that the Amazon gets a wild 201 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:33.159 amount of nutritious dust from the Sahara desert dumped on it every year, and 202 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:37.480 nat like gives them nutrients that are otherwise lacking, and it lets the Amazon 203 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.240 thrive. So I guess that makes sense. Are you just using a standard 204 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:45.799 MPKA ratio for succulents though, Yeah, just what I used for all my 205 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:48.559 other succulents, just deluded. Okay, Ye, so you've had this point 206 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:52.399 for a little while. Kind of walk me through what your process has been 207 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:56.399 for growing it. Okay. So, like I said, had it for 208 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:00.279 eighteen months when I first got it. I was following the best or actions 209 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:01.879 I knew at that time. Yeah, and it was about a year old 210 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:07.759 at that point. Yeah, and you know, like that's how this goes 211 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.960 with quote weird plants sometimes, and I get a weird excitement for this already. 212 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:15.759 Okay, Like I was like, okay, let's try to piece together 213 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.240 what to do. Yeah, a weird plant with almost no in depth or 214 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:24.240 highly vetted care instructions really brings a special thrill to you like nothing else kind 215 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:28.399 of Okay, So I got mine home. It was a carry on item 216 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.960 in my backpack on the plane. Yes, I am that person. You 217 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:35.000 act surprised, please. Anyway, I was told by some friends who had 218 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:39.120 experienced to basically never repot it again the delicate roots. So I planned to 219 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.279 keep it in the weird grow tube pot and wait for someone else to make 220 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.480 a video or of something that I could look at and follow, like for 221 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:52.679 instructions on what to do when it inevitably outgrows that pot. Yeah, and 222 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.519 because the pot is pretty rough looking, I can show a picture. This 223 00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:00.320 is one that I really wanted to move out quickly so I could joy it. 224 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:03.320 Yeah. So another weird houseplant strategy. When I can't stomach the risk 225 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.360 of wild guesses, I do this. I just wait for a video. 226 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:11.799 Okay, good call. Yeah, yeah, I may within reason. So 227 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.440 I was told that they didn't like to dry out, so I put the 228 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.759 nursery pot in a cash pot like one without drainage holes, so a bit 229 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.240 of water could collect in the bottom of the pot, almost like an underground 230 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.559 water source, kind of like in the wild. Yeah, okay, So 231 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.879 yeah, there was usually a bit of water in that cash pot. And 232 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.600 I mean, you know, this is a counterintuitive you know, quote succulents 233 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:38.480 and arid plant experience, right, So I kind of like the twists and 234 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:44.080 turns and the counterintuitiveness here. Yeah. I like, if you just look 235 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:47.159 at this plant and know where it comes from, like if you see a 236 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:52.799 plant in a photo of the desert, you would not yeah, keep it 237 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:59.320 let alone, prefer exactly, all right. So then I put it under 238 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:03.279 a strong row lights also near a window. Okay, so I try to 239 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:07.279 give it tons of light, but not like other worldly amounts exactly like surface 240 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.559 of venus. Yeah. So you know, it was like fifteen hours or 241 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.559 something. That's like the top end of the typical range for succulents and cacti 242 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.839 for me, but not like a you know, twenty four hour thing, 243 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:23.480 which I've heard of. So oh okay. So you've also mentioned to me 244 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:27.640 in the past kind of going through some challenging periods with this plant. Yeah, 245 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:32.039 what was going on and how did they go? So it went pretty 246 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:34.559 well for a while, but it never grew as quickly as the plants I 247 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:40.200 saw online, and I kept seeing those repotting horror stories, so I was 248 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:45.480 reluctant and still waiting for someone to share that video with confident directions on what 249 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.799 to do there. Yeah, and yeah, you know, another unusual house 250 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:53.799 plant excitement moment that I want to call out. Sometimes it feels like stressful. 251 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:59.680 Okay, yeah, Actually, as I'm saying this, it sounds way 252 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.960 more action packed than I should. Like that somehow, over the course of 253 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.440 a year, this is a good thing for me. I don't know, 254 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.640 but I feel like it's an accomplishment to find a stable cultivation routine, like 255 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.720 a holding pattern for a plant like this, you know, and then I 256 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:17.400 could keep the plant in that state while I learned more from the community, 257 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:19.960 and you know, learn more as they do the experimenting. Because I only 258 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:23.240 have one plant, I don't have good access to replacements. It sounds like 259 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:29.960 doing surgery while you're watching a YouTube video of how to perform the surgery. 260 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:36.119 How dare you? But yeah, yeah, So anyway, I felt like 261 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:41.079 I found a stability for Wellwichia and that felt like a little victory. Good 262 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:45.200 for you. Yeah, So then I moved my home. Conditions changed in 263 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.279 like five ways all at once. The leaves started to get red and crisp 264 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:53.599 up, and here's where the challenges started. I then misread that as too 265 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:57.720 much light, which makes zero sense in retrospect. But it looked red. 266 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:02.319 It looked kind of sun score, not like brown and dying to me. 267 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.119 So I moved it to lower lights. I went back to the groups in 268 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:10.400 the forearms to learn like the latest care info, which really changes so much, 269 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.640 kind of over six months, even like in my reading of it. 270 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:18.440 Then I realized it actually wasn't getting enough water for a while. And at 271 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.160 that point I thought it may be just dying slowly, you know, like 272 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:26.640 some succulents and cacti do. Yeah, But I fixed the watering issue. 273 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.000 I just threw it under highlight again, like no acclamation. I thought it 274 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:33.039 might be a goner anyway, And I'm like, well, you know, 275 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:37.000 this is just something to try. The red parts greened up again, and 276 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.160 so far it seems like it's forgiving me. I'm very happy about that. 277 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.599 Oh yeah, and this kind of sounds like a fairly typical weird plant moment 278 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.599 to have, like what is this doing? Who can I ask? Who 279 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.079 even knows? Yeah, And this is kind of another part. I like 280 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:57.240 that and the suspenseful moments. Maybe that's so stressful. Yeah, Like from 281 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:02.960 what I saw online, I thought my plant was a goner. And I 282 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.000 just saw these pictures of like people sharing a picture and people being like, 283 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:10.839 no, oh it's dead. I'm so sorry. So yeah, yeah, 284 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:14.119 but you know, sometimes you just try anyway because there is so little conventional 285 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:17.440 wisdom that hey, it could work, Like what do we actually know? 286 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:19.319 And this is something we do with any house platum and I would urge you 287 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:22.920 to do. And now I have some pictures, I have a story to 288 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.160 share with a little community online, and now I'll get to have like a 289 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:32.160 cool little chat with other enthusiasts from Italy and British, Columbia and Ohio and 290 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:33.720 you know who knows where else. And I kind of like that, oh 291 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:37.039 yeah, and this is going to be good for our show. Notes. 292 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:42.079 Okay, so what is going on with your plan right now? So it's 293 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:48.279 back under highlights. I'm watering it very consistently each Monday, and after a 294 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.799 call to the nursery that I bought it from, I feel like I have 295 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:57.160 a plan now for repotting it soon. I have called them before, those 296 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:03.920 long suffering people. Very Yeah, maybe I'll invite that friend who has one 297 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:07.359 over to come help. He actually wants to see what I'm going to do. 298 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.440 So you know, I am more nervous than usual for a repot, 299 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:15.160 for sure, but I do feel ready. I hope it gets bigger and 300 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.839 leaves will grow up more quickly and it can be in like what might be, 301 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.799 it's forever home. So like I say, leaves, but it's like 302 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.119 the leaves right right, So yeah, it's home as long as I'm alive, 303 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.519 and I'm planning to live until like two hundred. So cool. So 304 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:34.880 let's discuss the challenges. Are these considered challenging? So honestly, it's not 305 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:40.200 the very first thing that you read about these in my experience. In my 306 00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:42.920 opinion, I think from what you've probably gathered so far, like this is 307 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:47.559 one of those plants that isn't so difficult as long as you follow a few 308 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:52.039 rules very strictly. So in that sense, it's kind of like carnivorous plants, 309 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.920 but it's easier than something where maybe you would need to keep high humidity 310 00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:03.440 but lots of airflow but brighton direct light but never under sixty degrees or kind 311 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.400 of the things that I consider harder to consistently maintain. Does that make sense? 312 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.279 Yeah, I did see that. It's like these are easy, but 313 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:14.599 then there's a lot of they'll die really quickly. Yeah. Now, I 314 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.440 guess what is the quality of the general online care? You keep alluding to 315 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.039 the fact that it seems like it's changing constantly. How can you tell that 316 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:26.000 the resource that you're reading is helpful versus like one thing that someone noticed at 317 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:29.200 one point that they think is doing well. But I don't know, do 318 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:32.200 you get what I'm what I'm asking This seems weird. I think it's a 319 00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:34.920 matter of getting a sense of the consensus opinion, right, So it's like 320 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:40.200 kind of just checking the forum every week maybe, or you know, with 321 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:41.759 something like Facebook, it will sort of pop up in your feet, I'll 322 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:47.599 see something. Yeah, that's a great question, though. I think this 323 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:51.119 goes for all plants like this, And we're going to go on to say 324 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:52.720 that they are on a lot of plants like this, but I mean, 325 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:55.960 like unusual ones. We just have so a few data points with this one 326 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.480 in particular, so it's hard to get that good consensus. Yeah, but 327 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:03.720 for plants like this, I would just try to find that active community first. 328 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:08.279 That could be online in person, your neighborhood Wellwitchie I group. Yeah, 329 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:11.079 that might be a bit more of a reach, but hey, maybe 330 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:15.240 in Namibia. You know, I visit this well Witchy a Facebook group. 331 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:19.759 I searched through posts when I have questions. I look for pictures specifically to 332 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:23.319 be like, my plant looks like this or not. I also ask for 333 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.039 updates on the threads. So a lot of this is sort of like what 334 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:30.559 you would do on a forum maybe, Okay, And I do find good 335 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.960 information. I get responses more often than not because I think, you know, 336 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.640 we're on a plant like this, the community is small and kind of 337 00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:41.240 excited. Yeah, and I know some of us aren't into online forums or 338 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.240 Facebook groups. In that case, I would rely on the person or the 339 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:48.119 nursery you get the plant from before this episode, Like I said, I 340 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.880 talked on the phone to the nursery in Arizona where I got this one. 341 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.880 We were on the phone for a little while. They were super helpful. 342 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:56.960 I'm going to call them back probably if I need more help. So yeah, 343 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.200 I would imagine that the people who are selling these plants know what they're 344 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.880 doing. So it's different from like going to a house plant shop and it's 345 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.319 like I got this from a wholesaler. I don't have great in depth knowledge 346 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:10.559 on this particular species. This is probably a unique case. Yeah, and 347 00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:12.119 this one, I think they're just not for sale those places. Yeah, 348 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:17.920 but yeah, if you're looking for a purely written online resource, I haven't 349 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:22.119 seen much that is specific enough for my liking. Most of the articles seem 350 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:26.680 to be about how unusual they are, you know, and or from people 351 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:30.680 growing them outdoors in southern California, which doesn't cover a lot of the kreinfo 352 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.599 a lot of other people we need to know. And Wow, Matthew, 353 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:37.480 maybe our show notes will be the holy grail, oh God for Wellwich your 354 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.799 Karen's just writ until the end of the episode and see if you agree. 355 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.039 Yeah, we're going to add that to our aspirational to do list to look 356 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.440 at when we want to feel overwhelmed. I love feeling overwhelmed me too, 357 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.279 So I feel like another way that you can feel overwhelmed about this plant is 358 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:53.599 just trying to find one in the first place, because you know, I've 359 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.559 never shopped for them, but in preparation for this episode and it did a 360 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.759 quick search on eBay and at see I also just did a Google search. 361 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:04.440 I was seeing seeds that were for sale but kind of for more than fifteen 362 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.319 dollars, a piece that looked like sometimes snificantly more than that, and then 363 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:14.400 young plants that still had the caudalitan's were for sale for about one hundred and 364 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:18.720 fifty dollars, and there were not a lot of purchasing options either. Yeah, 365 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:22.720 finding one is possibly the hardest part. These are often sold out, 366 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.960 they're often expensive, but honestly, I kind of expected lower prices and a 367 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.359 bit more availability since buying mine. Well, maybe I'm looking in the wrong 368 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.079 time of a year or two. Maybe the nursery I got mine from though, 369 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:38.319 stop shipping entirely, supposedly because they don't need to anymore, gotcha. 370 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:44.480 Yeah, but those prices are definitely higher. I think I paid forty dollars 371 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:48.960 from mine, with a little like damaged leaf discount. So again, I 372 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:53.440 guess another broad unusual plant tip. I would point you to the online communities 373 00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.319 to ask where people got there, so maybe you can find a local place 374 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.000 or like a reputable online seller. And for this one, a lot of 375 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.279 people do grow from seed that doesn't seem unusually difficult, which is an upside. 376 00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:07.200 I guess yeah, and I think that would be a uniquely rewarding experience. 377 00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.039 Twenty five years old. Yeah, I did hear that the first eight 378 00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:15.359 months or so in the plant's life after Germanates or the most challenging period because 379 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:19.000 you risk fungal infection pretty easily. So okay, good luck with that if 380 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.880 you go that route. Okay, all right, I feel like we've kind 381 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:25.920 of got a sense of this. But have you enjoyed growing your will? 382 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.400 Which yea, would you replace it if it died? I would. I 383 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:32.440 started to look around when I thought I had lost mine a couple of months 384 00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:37.319 ago, and I found myself like reaching out to seed sellers online about other 385 00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:40.359 things to get a sense of them and like kind of be on their radars. 386 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:44.119 So I think the urge is definitely there. Okay, Now, do 387 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:47.400 you have any final thoughts for a plant parent who's interested in giving this a 388 00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:52.480 try themselves well as far as advice, Just plug into that local or online 389 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:56.880 community for these plants, any you know, or any unusual plant or any 390 00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:59.559 plant. Frankly, I mean I kind of always say that one. Yeah, 391 00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.039 I guess said why earlier, But that's going to be your source of 392 00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:03.920 knowledge and plants. Okay, that's good to know. Yeah, so, 393 00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:08.720 Matthew, as a person who grows trees indoors, as someone who grows fruit 394 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.440 indoors, as someone who has dared to own a vanda orchid, you're no 395 00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.799 stranger to outlandish moonshot plant experiences. Have you considered one of these ever? 396 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:23.079 You kind of you kind of answered that, but like why or you know, 397 00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:26.200 why not? Yeah? I mean, like I said at the top, 398 00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:29.200 this plant is in no way new to my plant knowledge, but I 399 00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:33.039 have never considered it because as a young plant, it doesn't really have much 400 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:38.759 appeal to me visually. It does have a ton of fascinating background that might 401 00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:45.519 make it an impulse by candidate, but I think I'm extraordinarily unlikely to just 402 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.799 randomly come across one for sale anywhere, and certainly not for a price where 403 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:52.039 it would just like end up in my shopping basket on a whim. Yeah. 404 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.519 No grocery stores that I'm aware of. Yeah. Yeah. And it's 405 00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:02.640 also that insane wilde kelp in the middle of the sea of sand look that 406 00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:07.920 is so particularly amazing to me. And I don't have twenty six square feet 407 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.519 of space and centuries of my life to achieve that, yeah, you know, 408 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.880 and really it's kind of like a lawn clippings and salad compost pile. 409 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:21.680 Look sometimes, you know, Okay, I mean you're not wrong. Yeah, 410 00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.960 and you know, like the Vanda orc that you mentioned, some of 411 00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.839 the you know, i'll call them novelty or on a whim plant experiences that 412 00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.200 I've had have been fairly short lived, just to see if something was feasible, 413 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:38.480 and almost all those experiences just kind of turned out to be things that 414 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:42.400 I Am not going to try again without a greenhouse or living in a suitabowl, 415 00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:47.960 you know, subtropical or tropical climate. Will Witchie in particular, just 416 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.680 seems too special to treat like that. Like Vanda's are crap. I don't 417 00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:56.559 really like them. But well, Wichia is something different, and even in 418 00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.400 the best case scenario, I can't ever expect to reach any kind of like 419 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:07.759 goal moment with it. You know, however unlikely that it might be other 420 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:12.119 plants that are like unlikely. Weird housemind candidates have had like a goal moment 421 00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:15.839 for me that I felt like I could achieve, like blooming up Plumaria indoors, 422 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:19.440 which was a success or growing my own avocado as my balcony, which 423 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:23.039 was a failure. Okay, that makes sense. This also tells me how 424 00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:27.720 I need to convince you, Okay, But you do understand the appeal of 425 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:32.440 the unusual plant experience that I'm kind of like trying to draw out of this 426 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:36.160 right for sure, Like different than like getting my bird of Paradise to flower. 427 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:41.039 I'm growing my edith kolia that is a monotypics to palead that it's just 428 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:44.559 so unique and interesting and I've had to kind of troubleshoot figure that out. 429 00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:48.000 I totally go what you're talking about with like stabilizing a plant like life ops 430 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:49.440 have also been that for me, but I might just give up on those 431 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.640 soon. Yeah, as first of all, Whichia goes though, I love 432 00:29:53.720 --> 00:30:00.279 that these are available in cultivation because it's just a marvelously fascinating species for interested 433 00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:06.279 growers to try, and the living fossil element is a huge selling point, 434 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:10.480 honestly, But I'd rather grow like ginko. Okay. And even after hearing 435 00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:15.640 all that, I still think you're gonna want one sometime, Okay, Like 436 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.160 maybe I just have to find a cool enough picture or maybe it's like that 437 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:25.039 goal like you said, you know, so my excitement is making it hard 438 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.559 to even hear anything contrary. Like I swear, you just have to see 439 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:30.960 this from the right angle, Okay, I I just know it. Yeah, 440 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:36.319 But I've already put together a Pinterest board with as many diverse interesting photos 441 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:38.079 of this plant showing off like all of its angles as I could for our 442 00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:42.440 Pinterest page. One must be missing, yeah, probably. I mean I'm 443 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:47.279 not nearly as unfamiliar with wowichi as you sometimes are about the common plants that 444 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:49.359 I love. Yeah, I can't deny that. Yeah. And I did 445 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:55.319 read some University of Botanical Greenhouse writ apps saying that their plants can grow pretty 446 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:59.279 quickly in cultivation, and they were showing pictures of their own twelve year old 447 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:03.160 sea grown simons that looked honestly pretty impressive, and they were flowering. But 448 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:07.279 if I'm going to put in the level of light and also the duration of 449 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:11.039 time to get a plant to do something like that, I would rather have 450 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:17.119 plumarias blooming or fruit on a cherimoya tree, not fossils at all. But 451 00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:23.920 okay, yeah, all right, any historical botanical cultural information about these let 452 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:27.960 me crack my knuckles. Yeah, is this going to be our longest botanical 453 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:34.599 section ever. I'm bracing myself. But in all seriousness, the sense I 454 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:38.880 get from what I've read myself, what I've seen in your outline is that 455 00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:44.039 botanists have really struggled to understand and classify this plant over time. Yeah, 456 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:47.720 that's totally true. So let's just start with something that is known. The 457 00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:51.640 genus is named for the Austrian botanist and doctor Frederick Wellwitch, who described the 458 00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:55.640 plant into science in eighteen fifty nine and what is now Angola and then. 459 00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:59.440 Part of the lore of his discovery of this plant is that he was so 460 00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:05.039 overwhelmed upon seeing it that, according to the que Royal Botanical Gardens, he 461 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:08.200 could do nothing but kneel down and gaze at it half in fear lest a 462 00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:13.440 touch should prove it a figment of the imagination. Totally get it, imagine 463 00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:19.559 feeling that way. So I read that he tried to name the genus tumboa 464 00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.960 after the local plant named Tambo, but another botanist was like, no, 465 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.519 we'll name it after you instead. So it's like they were this close to 466 00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:30.000 breaking that Eurocentric mold in Tumbo is kind of a cooler name though. Yeah, 467 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:34.240 Si, Yeah, of what a shame and so ahead of his time. 468 00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:39.400 But alas anyway, specimens from his expedition and then later one were eventually 469 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:45.000 sent to Q and the species named urabillis means wonderful or extraordinary that party can 470 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:50.079 get behind. Okay, if you didn't get it from my care story saga, 471 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.079 already, these defy a fair number of expectations. Yeah, and I 472 00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:58.359 think one of the simplest ones is just its growth habit. Because it only 473 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:01.839 has two leaves. Forever, it used to be thought of as a neotenic 474 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:07.200 plant, and neotany is the term used to describe the slowing or delaying of 475 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.720 development, and we sometimes think of this as stalling growth in a juvenile four 476 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.279 Right, So an example of that is the axelaudl. Maybe anybody who plays 477 00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:19.599 the game Minecraft or has a kid who does will know that one. Or 478 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.519 if you're an exotic pet person or a laboratory researcher doing studies on limb regeneration, 479 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:27.079 right right, I've heard that. Yeah. So it's a salamander found 480 00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:31.720 in Mexico that becomes sexually mature without completing the metamorphosis into its adult form, 481 00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:36.359 where it loses its skills and can live on land. In the plant world, 482 00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:38.279 there are some examples of this too. I know there was a form 483 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:43.640 of helium phora, the carnivorous sun picture that you could buy that just stayed 484 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:46.000 in its kind of strange, weird juvenile form forever. Why would you want 485 00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:49.759 that? Though? I don't think they were very popular anyway. Well, 486 00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:53.039 Witchia used to be considered neotenic like these examples. Yeah, I believe so. 487 00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:57.559 But well, Witchi is not actually a so called peter pan plant. 488 00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:02.480 Instead, after it produces it's only true leaves, the apical maristem just dies. 489 00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:07.880 This is the growth point of the plant where new growth would emerge from 490 00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:10.400 if it was like you know, picture of Palinopsis or an aloe for instance. 491 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:15.719 But for Wowichia, the basal maristem is the only thing that keeps that 492 00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:20.840 foliage coming out for all of perpetuity. Okay, And while we're on foliage, 493 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:25.039 botanists tend to expect small leaves in such harsh, dry habitats like this, 494 00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:30.400 not like a thirteen foot leaf like Wowitchie can have. Yeah, it 495 00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:37.039 totally defies as like generally observed phenomenon of desert plants, and instead the Wiwichie 496 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:40.639 has these mounds of coiling foliage that's spread out over time, and there's a 497 00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:45.559 theory that this growth habit serves to shade the ground under the plant, which 498 00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:50.519 reduces wind erosion, heat accumulation, and evaporation of water that collects on the 499 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:54.519 foliage as fogs roll in condense on the plant and then run off into the 500 00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:59.559 sand. They also have a broad network of shallow lateral roots in addition to 501 00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:04.400 their deep tap root in order to maximize their water uptake. So these adaptations 502 00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:08.239 all serve to allow the plant to handle soil temperatures of sixty five celsius or 503 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:14.719 about one fifty fahreheit, which is very scorching. Yeah, it sounds awful. 504 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:19.119 Yeah, So I would assume then that this would be a cam plant 505 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.840 And to review for anyone who hasn't heard one of our cacti episodes recently, 506 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:27.679 this refers to plants that photosynthesize during the day but open their stomata at night 507 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:30.559 in order to reduce loss of moisture in arid climates generally. Yeah, and 508 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:36.159 pineapple is a camplant. CAM stands for the cressy lacean acid metabolism for those 509 00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:39.559 interested, right, But it's been found that Wellwichia is only sort of a 510 00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:44.760 camplant. Yeah, so some plants use like full cam all the time, 511 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:49.320 while others do it to varying degrees. And in Wellwichia it's very slight, 512 00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:52.920 and it wasn't even really established as being true for a while because it's so 513 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:57.400 insignificant. But in foggy conditions, the stomata opened to take in some of 514 00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.079 that moisture and then shut again as it becomes hot and dry again. I 515 00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:05.599 have read that they actually taken most of their water through this process because there 516 00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:08.880 is no rain, no measurable rain where they live. Yeah, and that's 517 00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:13.880 an interesting one because I never read in the cultivation info to missed it, 518 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.480 right, Yeah, Like I wonder if that's just really you know, maybe 519 00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:21.559 it stays too wet in homes or something, you know, you don't want 520 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:24.679 the humidity to be high. Yeah yeah, yeah, anyway, like this 521 00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:29.320 sounds very high tech to me for such an ancient plant. No, yeah, 522 00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:36.280 actually I agree. Also on top of that, what we'll call quote 523 00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:39.800 little environments they form under these plants in the wild, that's not like a 524 00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:44.679 part of this plant story that occurs to me as often as like the thousand 525 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:49.119 year old part of the dinosaur part. But there's a short documentary excerpt that 526 00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:52.480 I found on YouTube that shows more and we can link to it in our 527 00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:55.320 show notes. Yeah, that excerpt that we watched calls this an example of 528 00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:00.559 niche construction, which is a fairly new concept describing when an organism builds an 529 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:07.159 environment in another environment. And whatwichia provides these little oases for insects and small 530 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:13.000 desert animals like snakes and lizards, or even nesting sites for birds, all 531 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:17.960 of which theoretically provides some amount of nutrient accumulation in the area around the wowichia 532 00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:22.519 in order to help it grow or at least support its growth. That is 533 00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:25.960 very cool, and it feels sort of familiar from carnivorous plants, where like 534 00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:31.199 some attract insects to eat, some attract certain other insects by trapping the prey 535 00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:35.920 that those other insects like to get the nutrients, and on and on. 536 00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:40.840 Another point that I kind of liked was that they found related fossils in Brazil, 537 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:45.840 which is not in fact very close to southern Africa in case he just 538 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.760 needs some like geography help, So this suggests that they have existed since before 539 00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:53.760 the Atlantic ocean, since you know, the continents weren't as separate as they 540 00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:58.119 are now like two hundred million years at least, which I think we said 541 00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:05.639 that's insane. So here's a hardcore Matthew sections. Do these have any close 542 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:09.000 relatives alive today? I'm so glad that you asked. With them being living 543 00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:14.000 fossils, you might have guessed that there are not many. And Stephen, 544 00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:17.400 just bear with me because I don't know what I was expecting these related plants 545 00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:21.320 to be, but it wasn't what I found. And there is, of 546 00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:25.280 course, sam disagreement among the scientific community. So there are a couple of 547 00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:30.719 taxonomic classification systems that I've seen for wellwitch yea. One place is this plant 548 00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:37.760 in its own family willwitchi aca and order willwitchiales. Okay, it's own order. 549 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:43.639 Like that sounds pretty isolated to me, Like often we talk about plants 550 00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:46.679 in the same genus and even you know those plants will get their own episodes 551 00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:51.119 sometimes. But you know, if you have to jump one higher to family, 552 00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:55.119 then one higher agains yeah yeah, but then one higher again to order 553 00:38:55.400 --> 00:39:00.480 before we can find some relationships that is yeah, yeah, on its own 554 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:02.280 and just to give some familiar contacts with plants. You might know. The 555 00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:06.159 last time we talked about taxonomy at the level of order, I believe, 556 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:08.719 was with the marintasi a family where we find clay the m prayer plants, 557 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:13.920 because that family is in the zinjabrails order, where we also find the birds 558 00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:17.760 of paradise, ginger, cardamom, bananas. So yeah, that's kind of 559 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:21.840 a diverse group in there. Okay, So yeah, speaking to what a 560 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:25.000 large tent that is. But well, Wichio was joined by two other orders 561 00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:31.639 that made up the division Netaphyta, and each of these individual three orders were 562 00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:37.400 only represented by a single living genus. Okay, so there are other full 563 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:42.679 blown orders just with single genera in them here too, Like this is sounding 564 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.880 like piles of last socks all of a sudden, Yeah kind of. But 565 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.800 I think that it is pretty cool to have well WITCHI would be so isolated 566 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:52.440 and there taxonomy. Yeah, I agree with that. Actually, you know, 567 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:57.800 like a special plant somehow. Yeah, but again we're not taxonomous. 568 00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:02.079 I'm smelling confusion here though. Yeah. So, recent DNA analysis seems to 569 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:07.960 give evidence to shifting all three orders of this division into a single order than 570 00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:14.920 ntails, which contains the family Nitasia with a single genus, and Eidraca, 571 00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:19.960 also with a single genus. Okay, so Wellwitchia is sounding pretty lonely so 572 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.400 far. But as far as the closest living relatives or next of kin, 573 00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:27.039 like, would we know them? Well, Wellwichia is the only member of 574 00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:31.239 its entire classification, but there are more in these other genera. I was 575 00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:36.920 completely unfamiliar with the Netum genus. However, there are about forty to fifty 576 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:40.719 species and they are pantropical trees, shrubs, vines. Their leafy have colorful 577 00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:45.360 fruit, and I didn't recognize anything from here in my prior plant knowledge. 578 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:47.880 And that's all I have to say about them, besides the fact that they 579 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:53.400 are utterly unidentifiable as relatives of Wowichia, just based on appearance. Well yeah, 580 00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:58.159 trees, shrubs, and vines that already doesn't sound very close to me. 581 00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:00.840 Yeah, from like rainforests. Yeah yeah. And then in the other 582 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:06.480 one, the genus Ephedra, well that name made me think diet pills, 583 00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:10.519 so yeah, I looked into that one, and the genus is also found 584 00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:15.280 around the world and they are considered shrubs mostly or vines with a kind of 585 00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:22.280 horsetail reedy sage brush appearance and photosynthetic stems with scale like leaves that fuse and 586 00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:30.480 again very different from both netam and wowichia. But ephedra are indeed medicinal plants, 587 00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:36.480 with their alkaloids ephedrin and pseudoephedrin having stimulant and decongestin properties, and they've 588 00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:38.920 also been used as weight loss supplements that were banned in the US recently due 589 00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:45.480 to serious safety risks. Aniphedra is also used in the production of methamphetamine. 590 00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:49.920 Oh nice, Okay, but I'm thinking, well, Whichie would probably feel 591 00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:52.639 weird at this family reunion? Yeah, just imagine their Thanksgiving dinner. But 592 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:59.639 we all have an antiphedra. So now we're gonna zoom a little bit further 593 00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:05.519 out, and here's what we get to Stephen savored place the territory of I'm 594 00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:08.159 trying to explain what I think I understand about various evolutionary theories that I read 595 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:13.840 about on Wikipedia, and then I tried to validate with supplementary resources because we 596 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:16.800 need some background information to get to my intended destination here. Okay, but 597 00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:21.519 you know I love a standing in one's truth. Okay, So yes, 598 00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:24.880 there's the trigger warning for any professional botanists or botany students. What do you 599 00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:28.760 have for us, Matthew? So I'm going to make this very big picture 600 00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:31.920 and try not to get mired down in detail. Okay, spoiler alerts. 601 00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:36.800 These aren't flowering plants. They're actually what are called cone bearing plants, like 602 00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:42.639 pine trees for example, and cone bearing reproduction evolved first, so another point 603 00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:46.280 for wellwichia ancientness. Okay, sorry, continue. Yeah, so in terms 604 00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:51.480 of plant reproduction, we basically have plants that reproduce with spores like ferns and 605 00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:57.039 moss, and then came the seed bearing plants or spermatophytes, and spermatophytes are 606 00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:00.639 then divided into the cone bearing gymnasperms, and then later we got the flowering 607 00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:07.079 angiosperms and angiosperms the flowering plants make up like the vast majority of our house 608 00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.400 plants. Yeah, Like almost everything that we've talked about on the show has 609 00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:15.000 been that there have been some ferms, but yeah, they evolved all the 610 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.880 complex anatomical adaptations. They get the pollen to the ovule in order to fertilize 611 00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:24.239 it to become a seed instead of an ovary or fruit body. While gymnasperms, 612 00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:30.079 which Witchia is, have their ovules just available for pollen to access directly. 613 00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:36.000 The word gymnasperm me is naked seed actually, And so the pollen bearing 614 00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:43.159 male cones and the seed bearing female cones look distinctly different. Picture conifers outdoors 615 00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:46.480 kind of this time of year on the tips of branches, you'll sometimes see 616 00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:52.519 these like yellow pollen covered growths and little clusters. And then later in the 617 00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:55.760 year there are pine cones. So that's that is a cone, the male 618 00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:00.679 and female cones, and so these were Witchie relatives and I just used earlier 619 00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:05.159 are gymnasperms. And you know, the other cone plants include conifers, like 620 00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:09.679 Stephen said, so think cedar pine juniper, and then other familiar living fossils 621 00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:15.480 like ginko and the psycats that include things like sygopalm and diune. And there 622 00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:22.159 are several theories to how they all fit together evolutionarily. So remember the Netaphida 623 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:25.239 division that either has one or three orders and whichever you choose to accept. 624 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:30.079 Willwitchia is in there along with that diet pill plant. Yes, but we 625 00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:32.480 may put a cricket sound in here. Okay, Well, the next closest 626 00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:38.519 relatives of Netaphida could be the conifers together, or just the pines and more 627 00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:45.039 distantly the other conifers. Another theory is that Netaphida's closest relatives could be just 628 00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:52.320 the flowering angiosperms in general, or Willwitchie and its relatives could represent a proto 629 00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.960 flowering plant. Okay, that's kind of a cool point for me when I 630 00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.400 first heard it, like it's archaic in another cool way. But then when 631 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:05.159 I saw more about the various theories and the part about the DNA evidence not 632 00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:08.920 really supporting that, I was a little less excited. Yeah. So see, 633 00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:13.400 like I don't really get into taxonomy unless I do, and then I'll 634 00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:16.519 have random opinions and emotions about it like this, which makes very little logical 635 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:20.559 sense. But I guess I just wanted it to be a proto flowering plant. 636 00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:22.079 Okay. I mean, you can win whatever you want. And Wikipedia 637 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:27.039 has some diagrams on their page for Nettaphida that gave me a starting point at 638 00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:30.320 least in my research. But it's chaos, and if you're interested, I 639 00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.079 highly recommend that rabbit hole. Yeah, rabbit hole. I'm going to write 640 00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:37.280 that down as an episode name. So today it seems to be most widely 641 00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:42.719 accepted. The Wilwichia and its relatives are most closely related to the pines and 642 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:49.159 other conifers. It's a fascinating mass. Sometimes I get into these awful tangents 643 00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:53.119 of taxonomy, but with Willwichia, the big picture that I'm taking away from 644 00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:59.159 this is that there are various theories representing how we understand the early evolution of 645 00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:04.199 different reproduct strategies of plants, and it makes the gymnasperms particularly curious to me. 646 00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:07.079 Okay, and it wasn't awful. Thank you for that, oh well, 647 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:12.880 thank you okay. In the notes, I have one final point about 648 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:16.599 cones. Somehow I'd already said my thank yous. I thought, okay, 649 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:21.559 yes, they're male or female Matthew, Yeah, so WIWITCHI, like you 650 00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:23.199 said at the top of the show, they're dioecious. They're either male or 651 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:28.760 female plants, which is fairly common in gymna sperms. Actually, the only 652 00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:32.840 branching part of the Wilwichia are the stout structures that emerge from the center of 653 00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:37.840 the plant, bearing either narrow, reddish orange male cones or thicker, fleshy, 654 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:43.119 greenish female cones. Tinged with orange or purple and both produce nectar. 655 00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:45.239 Okay, and let me just call out if you need a plant that will 656 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:52.719 turn boiling sand into nectar. Look no further, I mean, I'm speechless. 657 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:58.480 It's some good wow. Anyway, Now, if you're familiar with like 658 00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:01.880 the hemlock tree, to me, the female cones look quite a lot like 659 00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:08.079 a closed hemlock cone. But apparently only one seed typically develops per cone, 660 00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:13.639 and it's then dispersed off in the wind on its perianth or a papery wing. 661 00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.079 Okay, yeah, the photos I've seen like they look really colorful. 662 00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:21.000 Didn't know it was one seed per cone. That's brutal. I don't know 663 00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:22.960 how like typical it is. But they put all that energy into nectar and 664 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:25.679 they live on do so yay, you know what? Yeah? Who am 665 00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:30.039 I to questioned this two hundred million year old strategy or whatever. Okay, 666 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:34.840 it knows what it's doing. Yeah obviously. Yeah. So because Wiwichia evolved 667 00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:38.400 into what it is today well before the debut of familiar modern pollinating classics like 668 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:44.239 bees and butterflies and birds, It's thought that they are pollinated by flies and 669 00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:49.719 insects of the order hemitera, which are considered the true bugs, which include 670 00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.760 things like cicadas, if it's bedbugs and shield bugs. Though a particular one 671 00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:57.920 called the willowitchie bug was once thought to be a key pollinator, but I 672 00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:00.039 believe that that has since been debunked because they basically live on the plant, 673 00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:04.199 but it seems to feed on its sap. Oh well, you know, 674 00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:07.480 it still has its own special bug accessory, so I kind of like that. 675 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:09.000 And it is kind of a pretty bug too, it kind of is. 676 00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:13.360 Yeah, yeah, And if you check out that documentary, you will 677 00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:17.239 see tons of insects crawling on these plants, so including mealy bugs, I 678 00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:22.559 think. But either way, because their hostile habitat, the slow growth and 679 00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:27.079 the low seed production and germination well which yea do not have high rates of 680 00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:30.119 reproduction in the wild, but it seems like this is offset by their impressive 681 00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:36.159 longevity and wild populations are fairly abundant, and the plant does not seem to 682 00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:38.719 be in danger of over collecting or destruction of habitat, and it currently has 683 00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:43.440 a status of near threatened, which means that while it's being monitored, it's 684 00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:46.800 not of significant concern for conservationists. Yeah, this is weird to say, 685 00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:52.320 maybe, but I'm so glad whenever I hear that this plant isn't nearly extinct 686 00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:53.679 in the wild. Oh, it seems like it should be, right, 687 00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:59.079 Yeah, it's just so old and fragile in some ways, and like, 688 00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:01.639 thank god, it's not at all feasible to collect wild ones. Yeah, 689 00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:06.119 you can't really poach a twenty six foot wide plant with a tap root as 690 00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:08.760 deep as easily as you can, like you four Bob sat cram your pockets 691 00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:12.519 with those. Yeah, hopefully it's not and hopefully it's clearly The one I 692 00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.519 have is seed grown from a reputable nursery here in North America, and you 693 00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:20.719 know, yeah, And actually that's another interesting point because there's actually currently a 694 00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:23.840 fungal pathogen that seems to infect the female cones of many of the wild occurring 695 00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:30.440 plants, which dramatically reduces seed viability. So in case this ever becomes relevant 696 00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:34.719 to you, the interpretd person who wants to try growing these from seed, 697 00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:40.599 your likelihood of success is much higher with seeds from cultivated plants rather than wild 698 00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:46.800 collected because those have a much higher likelihood of coming with a fungal contamination that 699 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:51.920 will cause your seedling to die pretty shortly after it has started, so hopefully 700 00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.760 that doesn't become a problem for the wild populations of the species in its native 701 00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:59.039 habitat. But hey, this plants lived for thousands and thousands of years, 702 00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:01.119 so yeah, even more reason to get it from a nursery strictly, Yeah, 703 00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:06.599 for sure. Okay, So anything else, Matthew, I'm curious if 704 00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:08.920 this was your way of saying that you're not very interested in growing will which 705 00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:12.679 you I mean, in my own weird way, this is how I can 706 00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.719 say that I respect the hell out of this fascinating plant, and I love 707 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:20.000 that it's alive and that I know about it, and there is a lot 708 00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:22.960 to both know and guess about. But no, if I'm going to spend 709 00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:27.239 that kind of money in time, I wanted to do something more for me 710 00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:30.519 than just be what it is, which I feel like I hear you coming 711 00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:34.280 out of my mouth when I say that a plant that does more kind of 712 00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:37.199 yeah, yeah, And I mean, you know what, We're different and 713 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:42.639 that's why this works exactly. Okay, So on this week's after show for 714 00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:45.599 official patrons, we just have a couple of other questions that somehow didn't manage 715 00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.880 to get shoehorned into this hefty episode. How on earth did we managed to 716 00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:52.440 have points from outlining that didn't already get discussed? We have a problem, 717 00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:55.719 yeah, but you know. Head over to Patreon dot com slash Plant Daddy 718 00:50:55.760 --> 00:51:00.719 Podcast if you're interested in joining. Okay, anything else, No, I 719 00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:05.159 think that's absolutely it. Well, this has been Plant Teddy Podcast. Thanks 720 00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:07.079 for listening. Don't forget to like and subscribe, tell your friends about us. 721 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.440 If you enjoy what you've heard, please give us a five star rating. 722 00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:13.199 Then I'll help us find us to see images of things we discuss on 723 00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:16.280 our episodes. Check out our interest in Instagram or visit our TikTok. If 724 00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:20.239 you want to be in touch, email us at Plant Eddy Podcast at gmail, 725 00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:22.320 or check out our website Plant Teddy podcast dot com. Until next week, 726 00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:29.039 Thanks for listening and happy growing. Sorry I had to take a breath 727 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:43.400 reallysing quickly. Okay,