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What is Krack Oak and Harvard Knocks
listeners, I am Dan Valley coming at

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you once more without my fantabulous co
host Adam FROMMEOL. I am, however,

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excited as always to keep our season
look ahead train a roll in.

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Today we're gonna be talking about the
Atlanta Hawks with Sarah K. Spencer.

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She covers the Atlanta Hawks for the
AGC otherwise known as the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

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She does a fantastic job, publishes
great stories over there. There's always

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something every once in whilse seems like
she publishes that's just really fun and and

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offbeat. Great follow on Twitter.
So you follow her on Twitter at Sarah

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Underscore k Underscore Spence spelled exactly as
it sounds. Before we dive into a

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conversation about the Hawks and puppies.
Don't worry, there are puppy references throughout

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this podcast. Just a reminder to
please please a pretty please with sugar on

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top or whatever. Your favorite artificial
sweetener might be, zero calorie sweetener,

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whatever, Please remember, rate,
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or not, this is your first time

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up subscribe to us. Once we get

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to one case subscribers, we will
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head over YouTube dot com subscribe to us.

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We are not We're more than halfway
two thousand subscribers, and we've only

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been doing that YouTube channel for a
couple of months and I haven't implemented the

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actual video element yet of it because
I've been so busy, or maybe I'm

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just too lazy one or the other. You decide for yourself. But again,

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if this is your first time listening
to us, yo, what's up?

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Thanks? For listening to us.
I really appreciate it. But subscribe

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to us, consider that, download
all our episodes, great review wherever you're

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getting your podcast. With that out
of the way, let's get to all

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things Atlanta Hawks with Sarah Kay Spencer
from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Sarah,

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thank you so much for coming back
on Hardwood Knox to talk some Atlanta Hawks

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with me. First and foremost,
though, how are you doing. How's

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your off season been? I'm doing
great. Thanks for having me. No,

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I it's been amazing off season.
I actually got married, so it's

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been like busy but relaxed and great
too. So no, it's just been

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it's just been wonderful. But now
everything is starting to really really ramp up,

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and I think the Hawks have a
really interesting season in store, so

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that's exciting too. Well, congratulations
are getting married, and also congratulations on

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did you just get your dog?
Millie? Was this like right around the

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off season? So Millie is.
She's also in the background eating some peanut

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butter right now. So if anyone
hears like licking noises, oh so we're

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hoping she behaves. We got her
I think almost three months ago or a

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little bit less, so now she's
like I remember bringing her home and she's

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just like tiny cotton ball. And
now she's like, she's almost thirty pounds.

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She might end up being like close
to fifty pounds. So she's she's

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a unit already a little under six
months. So no, she's she's the

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best. It's been exciting. What
type of a dog is she? She's

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an Australian Shepherd. To see pictures
of her, just go on my Twitter.

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I just spam. It's not even
hawks content anymore. I just spam

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my Twitter with pictures of Millie.
I have to stop myself from posting too

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many pictures of my dog. So
I totally feel you there. It's so

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like it's so athartic though, and
I feel like whenever I see pictures of

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other people's dogs, particularly before I
had a dog, but even still now,

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it makes it made me so happy. So now that I have a

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dog, I'm like, hey,
if you're having a rough day, here's

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this picture of Milli napping. And
I don't know, I maybe people are

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annoyed with it, but I like
it. I love seeing videos and pictures

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of puppies. These were like,
really my first two puppies, all my

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other dogs I kind of had when
they were a little bit older, and

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puppies clearly aren't for me. Like
now that they're dogs, I really love

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them. But I was like we
were overwhelmed by it because we were I

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think both of us had like family
dogs growing up, but like you're kind

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of a child and not really understanding
the depth of having a puppy. And

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so we got hurt when she was
little and we brought her home and we

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were like, even like the car
ride home, she just wouldn't stop like

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wailing because she was it was nervous, and we were just like looking at

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each other like this is did we
bite off more and we can show And

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the first few weeks were tough,
but now she's she's settled down now and

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now she actually like looks like an
adult dog and not just like a little

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cute chip. Yeah, that's why
I love other people's puppies though, because

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I'm not dealing with the responsibility of
said puppies. Yes, puppies are so

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much, but the Atlanta Hawks,
that is quite the segue puppies to the

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Atlanta Hawks, who they might be
puppies of the contender. Click, there's

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the lets the natural segue speaking of
animals, there's all birds. This is

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the Hawks. That's the best I
can do. Is it fair to say

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the theme of their off season was
kind of let's just keep this together,

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lock our core down, but without
really consigning ourselves to one direction for too

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long A little bit, I mean, I think to Hawks. I think

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the thing with the Hawks, I
mean, especially making it as far as

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they did in the playoffs last season, overcoming a ton, really really loving

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Nate at the helm. I think
the Hawks are are very used with their

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roster. They had a few holes
to fill here and there. Obviously they're

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building around Trey for the long term. Obviously they extended Capella and those two

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guys as your bookends. They really
like that pairing. They had a decision

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to make with John Collins. They're
keeping John around, which I think was

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the right decision. In addition to
the way he's growing as a player,

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he's just such a vital, vital, kind of like the heart of the

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team. So he's vital piece for
them as well, in addition to what

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he does on the court. So
they like their guys, they like their

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core. They kind of have the
Since the Hawks have been rebuilding They've had

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like their kind of core five guys, and then now they have the expanded

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core because you've added a guy like
Clink Capella, You've added a guy like

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Bogie who's very important to what they
do. So I think the Hawks went

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into this offseason knowing that Anyaka Akongu
was banged up, Okay, we've got

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to add a little depthis center.
They did that knowing that, you know,

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backup point guard has kind of been
and depth in the backcourt has kind

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of been a tough issue for a
few years now. They added deln right,

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So I mean, I think they
went into the into the off season

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thinking, Okay, here's how we
plug this and that, as opposed to

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here's how we transform, because they're
not really at that phase anymore. They're

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happy with where they are. This
is, this is a good roster.

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They just needed to patch some issues
here and there. So I think that's

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that's what they did. They weren't
really trying to like blow the lid off

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anything. They just needed to tweak
some things here and there. And I

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think I mean, as far as
they even could have tried to blown off

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the lid, I guess they could
have. They really wanted to. I

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thought it was smart because they did
make it to the conference finals, but

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it's like what happens in a normal
season under those circumstances, And I do

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think teams sometimes read too much into
those results and it's clear that they really

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didn't and you could, you know. I think some people thought the Clink

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Capella extension was why did it happened
this year? That felt a touch too

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soon. Maybe some people didn't think
John Collins was worth the deal. I

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actually thought that was just like one
of those contracts you look at it like,

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that makes sense. We're both sides, the player option at the end,

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the pay grade and everything, and
so I kind of I kind of

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like that day. I like what
they did overall, because they didn't do

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too much, and then you dig
into their roster and it's like they could

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just organically get a lot better.
If Bogey doesn't miss nearly twenty games,

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if you have a backup point guard
who plays in more than four games during

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the regular season, if Cam Reddish
and or DeAndre Hunter are healthy, and

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so there's still much about the actual
core that you have room to grow,

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or at least room to see where
even if they had to even if they're

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looking at this as we're going full
steam ahead and we need to be in

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the contender circle, there's enough unknowns
in a good way on their roster that

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they're kind of getting additions without actually
making any additions. That's no, that's

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that's very very well put because I
think they feel really confident that even the

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past few years when they've been rebuilding. Yes, they brought in guys from

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outside, but they're they the Hawks
have drafted well, and they're confident in

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the guys, even the guys who
they picked like later in the first round,

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like John you know, I haven't
heard her like guys like that.

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They're confident they're going to hit on
those guys, and those guys are going

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to continue to develop. I mean, the past few years, you've been

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starting like a group of twenty two
year olds, and now you know they're

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like twenty three, they're twenty four. You know, they're growing up a

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little bit. So you continue to
develop those guys. And I think another

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kind of common misconception is that the
Hawks, when Nate McMillan took over,

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the Hawks suddenly got healthy. That
wasn't the case. They actually almost got

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more injured they were injured the whole
season, so they made this amazing run,

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and yet they were still missing a
lot of guys, and a lot

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of guys weren't one hundred percent bog
He wasn't one hundred percent. He was

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dealing with some neat issues. They
didn't have DeAndre Hunter at all there at

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the end. Camraddish came back and
had an awesome game, but he wasn't

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there for the awesome game. That
just speaks to like the availability. He

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came back and he had he had
an awesome game, but he wasn't there

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like the whole second half. So
you I have a lot of guys who

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I think they're confident that when those
guys hopefully are healthy and available, you

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know, high performing pieces, that's
enough for us to get to the next

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level. We don't have to go
in there and shake everything up. We

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don't want to shake everything up.
We're confident with what we have, so

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why would we disrupt it to you
know, to a crazy degree. So

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I mean, I think that that's
kind of the question now, is what

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happens with those guys. You know, Camradish had an excellent game, and

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Camradish has so much potential what does
he do with it? Cam Radish didn't

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really get to play Undernate except for
one game, you know, so you

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don't you don't know what that's gonna
look like. What's DeAndre Hunter going to

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look like? After a phenomenal,
phenomenal second season but obviously kind of an

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incomplete season because of injury stuff too. So I think that if the Hawks

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can stay healthy, I think they
they like their young guys and what those

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young guys can can bring to the
table. Try y'all believe it or not,

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is among those young guys still only
twenty three just a puppy, as

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would be the theme of this podcast. What I'm having trouble and visioning because

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it's because he is still so young
and already so good. What does the

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next level of t like? How
does Trey Young improver? How does he

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get better? And the other thing
that's attached that is do you think his

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game is impacted at all by the
NBA cracking down on those freedom of movement

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rules at the offensive end? I
think it is, yes, but I

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don't think it's gonna I think he's
gonna have to adjust, but I don't

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think it's gonna like completely throw him
off if that makes sense, Like he's

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gonna have to adjust because when you
look at like I spoke with one of

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kind of the head referees who's in
charge of the way they're gonna officiate like

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non basketball moves differently, And I
mean it's it's kind of an enigmatic thing,

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like it's it's hard to pin down, Like even when you look at

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videos of all these different moves,
it's kind of like targeting in football.

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You're like, okay, but what
about in this situation. So just see

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how it goes. But I do
think sometimes when he pumped fakes and kind

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of like goes into guys a little
bit, I think they might end up

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calling that, uh is that squeaker
too loud? That's totally fine, but

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ours in the background. Okay,
everyone, I can recommend this octopus toy

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to you that Milly's obsessed with.
It keeps her occupied, but it is

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loud. Yeah, I mean she's
officially an influencer now she Yeah. Really,

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no one cares about like anything regarding
me on my social media. Everyone

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is just like, we're Billy.
Yeah, it's a great it's a great

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octopus toy. But yeah, no, I think that he will have to

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adjust, but like he's gonna adjust. His game is so fluid, you

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know, he's he's not That's not
what he like solely relies on. So

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it's not like that's his main thing. Like sometimes guys get known for stuff

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like that, but that's that's not
really his main thing. So I think

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he'll adjust, and I think that'll
probably be fine moving forward. I think

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he's not the only guy who's gonna
have to adjust. There's a lot of

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guys who are going to have to
because that's kind of become part of the

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game the last few years. So
but they're they'll adjusted. But yeah,

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no, I mean, I think
the thing for Trey moving forward, I

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00:13:15,919 --> 00:13:20,399
don't think it's anything super transformational.
If I were to say one thing as

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far as how Tray can grow his
game, I think I'm gonna echo something

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that Naate Vic Millan has said a
lot, which is just limiting turnovers.

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I don't think it's anything too crazy. I think it's something they made us

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said a few times, as Trey
is too good to have four or five

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six turnovers a game, and some
of that in previous years has been he's

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kind of trying to maybe you didn't
have a supporting cast you had, so

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he's kind of trying to get guys
in certain situations. But I think I

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think this past year under Night you
did see improvement on that. You saw

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more like two three in that range, and that's kind of what you want

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to keep him. So I think
for Trey it's simple and I think that

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might come. He's always going to
have some turnovers because you have the ball

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on your hands so much, and
that's going to happen. But I think

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just limiting that and making those smart
plays is going to be key for him.

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I mean, he he's shown he
has an elite floater game. He

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has shown he could, you know, shoot from the logo. He's shown

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that he's one of the best passers
in the league. He's shown that he

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can deliver in the clutch in the
biggest way. So he's shown all those

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things. I think now it's just
kind of it's just his game maturing and

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limiting turnovers. You mentioned he's the
ball in his hands a lot, and

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the offense was pretty bad without him
last Year's probably the kindest way to put

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it for them. I'm wondering,
do you think that they have enough on

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this roster between adding Delon Wright,
keeping lou Will, having let's say Bogie

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b be healthier to better navigate those
those offensive minutes without Trey Young on the

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floor this year, I do,
especially if Kevin Hurder continues to be what

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he was this year for the Hawks. It was kind of funny going into

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this past season, there were all
these questions of, Wow, the Hawks

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almost have too many guys, like
how do they get minutes for all these

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guys? And then that ended up
not remotely being an issue because of the

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way that guys got hurt and Kevin
Hurder ended up being kind of like a

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go to guy. And what happened
is he completely blossomed. He was known

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as a kind of a I guess
he was known for being a three point

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shooter, but then really blossomed as
a defender, which was cool to watch.

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And then he ends up being like
their Game seven hero against the Sixers,

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you know, sending you to sending
you to the conference finals. So

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he actually played a little bit.
He kind of ran the point a little

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bit sometimes this past year when when
Trey was out just injured a game here,

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a game there. So I think
with those with that group of guys.

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Yes, I think they're going to
have enough, but it has been

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a question. It's just it's it's
hard to find, you know, like

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because part of me wants to say, yeah, it's been an issue for

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them for a long time, but
those reliable backup point guards are that's that's

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a hard niche that's a hard get
to find a perfect guy to fill role.

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So I think they have a handful
of guys that can come together and

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fill that role. And it will
be interesting to see how Dalon fits in.

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I like that fit in theory.
We'll have to see how it looks.

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But all all of those guys that
we just talked about, like Kevin's

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an excellent passer, Bogie's a good
passer, you know, lose a little

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bit more of a two, but
he I mean, he single handedly won

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the Hawks several games last year just
coming alive on the fourth and he probably

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did more than that just with the
experience that he brings. So I do

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think they have enough kind of but
it's not just behind Tray. I do

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think they have enough behind and alongside
him, but I think there are going

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to be some combinations thereof in order
to have enough kind of playmaking and passing

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on the court when Trey inevitably at
some point has to go to the bench.

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And I was looking in advance of
this pod at some of the lineups

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without Trey that might have worked,
and it was very limited sample size,

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but the Hawks absolutely annihilated opponents when
lou Will and Bogey played together last year

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without Trey Young. And if Kevin
Hurder is gonna stick with his defensive improvement,

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it makes it easier to insert him
in those lineups. But as you

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mentioned, there's also Delon Wright.
Because of the positional maaluability he gives you

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on defense, you can maybe insert
him into that duo and that becomes something

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where no, I think that they're
going to outscore opponents. I think it

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was by twelve points per one hundred
possessions with those two on the court without

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Trey. Probably not, but it
makes it a little bit more sustainable because

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you mentioned it's sort of like a
replacing Trey by committee in those minutes.

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It makes it easier if you have
the defensive talent to pair with that offensive

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talent, which maybe they do now
between right Hurder's improvement, and you can

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of course play Capella in the middle
during some of those stretches as well.

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Exactly, it's not just you have
It's just not a situation where you have

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one guy who comes off the bench
and it's like, okay, now I'm

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leading everything. You know, It's
it's a little bit different than that.

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It's a it's a combination of guys
thereof who also, like you mentioned with

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Kevin and Delon, if you bring
that defensive intensity as well, you're kind

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of compensating in other ways. So
I just think there's gonna be I think

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they have enough with different combinations to
make it work. I mean, we've

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got to see and that obviously assumes
all those guys stay stay healthy, which

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has just been that was just kind
of a big, a big issue for

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them last year. And it sounds
silly to talk about because obviously they made

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it work and they still like made
it to the conference finals. But it

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just it just felt like that was
just such a nagging thing that they just

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couldn't stay healthy. But I know
it, to be fair, a lot

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of teams had not issue because you're
playing every day and it was a brutal

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season and it was such a unique
season too, So I think this year

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getting back to kind of normal,
you know, not completely normal, but

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kind of normal. It's gonna be
it's gonna be kind of going back.

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It's gonna be a change, you
know, for these guys after a year

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of kind of that condensed schedule,
and I know it was tough on a

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lot of a lot of teams.
Uh. You mentioned already that Onyeko Kongu

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is banged up with him out.
Do we just wantamatically assume that John Collins

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will take on even more sort of
back up five minutes, even though he'll

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start next to Capello. Where do
you see them? You know, is

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00:19:30,519 --> 00:19:33,400
Gorgy Jang going to play a ton
with this team? Do they maybe even

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00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,559
consider downsizing where Gallinari is Sometimes they're
five in second units or against we just

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00:19:37,559 --> 00:19:40,160
assume that Collins is going to take
on a lot of those reps. Now,

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I think it could go a couple
different ways. I think another,

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I mean, the Hawks have a
couple of different ways they can do it.

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But I think yes, I think
John kind of especially because the Hawks

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are not you know, the Hawks
are trying to win, you know,

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and so I think there will be
sometimes where you just kind of give those

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minutes to the guy who you know
is experienced and you trust him there and

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that's John. But they did add
some depth for that purpose. But it's

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it's disappointing though that a Yucca who
had a good playoffs was really starting to

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come on strong after a tough few
months, kind of early months in the

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league, where again it was because
of injury. I think that he kind

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of struggled when he first got out
there, but he's not going to be

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out the whole season. He's going
to be out for the first several months

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00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:38,880
of the season, but he's not
gonna be out the whole season. So

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I think they'll triage it for the
first few months and then you know,

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you'll be able to bring him back, which I think is good because I

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think playing behind Clint Capella and alongside
John Collins if possible, kind of helps

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on YECCA because you're around two experienced
players. What did you think of Collins

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in the playoffs? There are people
that sort of pointed to his stat line

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was just modest when you looked at
it, But I was watching him and

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I came away on most games just
super impressed with what he was doing.

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Because when you're looking on offense,
it's an adjustment to have to play alongside

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Clink Capella because you're all of a
sudden no longer the primary dive guy.

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And it felt like he was finding
more ways to impact on offense, whether

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he was popping even you know,
his three ball wasn't always even falling.

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Then I'm watching him on defense and
there's like this was not the case in

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00:21:22,839 --> 00:21:26,440
every game of every series, but
he's like defending guys who actually put the

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00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,960
ball on the floor and have like
unpredictability to their off the dribble attacks,

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and he's holding up quite well.
And it felt like maybe overstating it to

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00:21:34,319 --> 00:21:37,599
say that he turned a corner,
but like, this is someone that I

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00:21:37,599 --> 00:21:41,359
think probably needs to be reevaluated even
more because it seems to me like he's

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00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,480
now capable of playing so many different
roles, or at the very least a

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player that doesn't have a ton of
exploitable weaknesses, as people I think thought

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even leading into last season. Yeah, I mean, I think John John's

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00:21:56,599 --> 00:22:03,640
game has grown a ton in ways
that doesn't in a lot of ways that

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00:22:03,759 --> 00:22:07,920
don't show up in the box score
the way you'd expect. He has gotten

327
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,640
a ton of credit from the front
office, from Nate McMillan. He's gotten

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00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:17,359
a ton of credit for being a
guy who whose stats are going to go

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00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,039
down a little bit, but the
Hawks wins are going to soar because,

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like you said, he's not that
you know now when Trey, Now,

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Trey has two guys he can pare
with, you know, like he has

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Clint as a room runner. Obviously, John, that's this thing as well.

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00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,920
I think one thing that's helped John
with that though, with that adjustment

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00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:45,160
is being a good three point shooter. He's actually a surprisingly good three point

335
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,839
shooter, so I think that's helped
his game a lot. But you know,

336
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,839
it's one of those things where you
are going to score less because there's

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00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:55,160
fewer touches to go around. That's
that's the thing on a winning team,

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00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,359
you know, you're not gonna get
every single touch every single time because there's

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00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,039
more talent, there's more depth on
the court. There's more talent on the

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00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:07,759
court. But I think he's also
improved defensively a lot. Like you mentioned

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him, uh you mentioned him taking
on guys you know who are dribble driving

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00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,880
or you know, he's he really
he really has grown as a defender.

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That's another thing. That's not always
going to show up and it's not always

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00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,880
going to show up as blocks,
you know, at the night. But

345
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that doesn't mean he's not That doesn't
mean he's not containing, that doesn't mean

346
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,200
he's not making guys change their shots, you know. That doesn't mean that

347
00:23:30,279 --> 00:23:36,119
he's not doing all of those things. So, I mean, I I

348
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:41,480
personally thought the Hawks keeping John and
I thought that was a good deal for

349
00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:47,319
both sides. He made it like
abundantly clear he wanted to say the Hawks

350
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:49,519
in the end kept him around,
and I think that was I think that

351
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,960
was the right decision. I think
his game has grown a ton, and

352
00:23:53,319 --> 00:23:56,680
because he's the longest tenured talk so, because he's been around so long,

353
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:02,839
get the perception that he's like older
than he is. I think it's still

354
00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:11,759
a young core guy. Yeah,
exactly exactly. It's puffies, it's it's

355
00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:15,039
it's a it's still a young group
of guys who are really developing. And

356
00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:21,200
I think I think John is kind
of a big example of that. And

357
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,519
I think that when Clink came along, I think that he could have been,

358
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:29,599
you know, disheartened by that a
little bit, just because you are

359
00:24:29,599 --> 00:24:33,359
going to have to have some personal
sacrifice there, but it makes it I

360
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,599
think it makes it easier when you're
winning and you see, Okay, if

361
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:41,039
I do this, we're gonna win, you know. And and he was

362
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:42,440
a big part of that because of
the way he's grown on both ends of

363
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,279
the floor. And it's good for
them that it seems like just watching him

364
00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:48,680
on the court, and I know
there was the reports like it was early

365
00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:52,440
last year, I've lost all sense
of time about like friction between what he

366
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,400
thought about try Young having the ball
too much beyond Trey Young, like there

367
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,680
are just other guys on this team
now you look at lou Will, Bogdanovich,

368
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,799
Gallo, who are going to have
the ball in their hands. And

369
00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:07,880
so if you have someone who is
just committed to sort of fitting in and

370
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:11,039
complimenting wherever he can, accessorizing wherever
he can, that ends up being a

371
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:15,839
huge deal, especially if he's I
always thought this about Klinkapelle and Houston when

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you look at the point he was
in his career and John Collins is sort

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of at the same point at given
his age, you could want more touches,

374
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,039
you could want to try and broaden
your game, But if he really

375
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,240
is committed to or just doesn't mind
kind of fitting in and filling the gaps

376
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:32,920
on offense and just depending on which
lineup season that ends up being absolutely monstrous

377
00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:36,880
for this team in their development.
Yeah, I agree. I think that

378
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:41,440
when you have a roster like the
Hawks have, which you don't necessarily have

379
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:45,079
like a ton of guys who are
like you know previous all start, you

380
00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:51,279
know, you don't necessarily have a
lot of guys who are who are have

381
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,960
done that yet, but you have
a lot of good young talent who's willing

382
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,880
to be that's willing to be flexible. And I think that's what's key.

383
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,160
And I think that's what they tried
to kind of and John's exhibit a of

384
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,200
that, and I think that's kind
of what they tried to drive home last

385
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:11,799
year is you're gonna have to sacrifice
a few minutes, You're gonna have to

386
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:18,160
sacrifice a few points, but we're
going to the Eastern Conference finals. So

387
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,359
so it worked out last year.
Per my notes, when I was looking

388
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,039
at last year's outing for this podcast, I asked you who was the most

389
00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:29,279
important way to the Hawks, between
Herder, Reddish and Hunter. You had

390
00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:32,680
said Hunter, I was holding I'd
hoped for Reddish. You were one hundred

391
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,440
and fifty percent right on Hunter,
even though he didn't play much. It

392
00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:38,200
just he was in the early m
IP discussion just based off when you looked

393
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,559
at his offensive game. He was
doing things off the dribble. Of course,

394
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:45,680
he unlocked so many lineups for them
if they want defensively. What are

395
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,119
realistic expectations now for him heading into
this year, given that he missed so

396
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,599
much time last year and was dealing
with pretty serious injuries during that stretch.

397
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,480
I mean, I think the biggest
thing is just for him to start out.

398
00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:06,960
I think that it's just about him
getting comfortable again with the ball in

399
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,599
his hands, getting comfortable again,
just planting, cutting, that kind of

400
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,559
thing. I think. I think
it's kind of like a slow and steady

401
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:18,119
approach because, like you said,
he was he was hurt, and I

402
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,720
mean, it wasn't necessarily like the
mildest thing, you know, like it

403
00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:25,400
was. It was a it was
an injury that you don't you don't want

404
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,920
to have, you know, early
in your career. It's it's just tough.

405
00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:30,960
I think that I think that it
was a it was a tough setback

406
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,160
for him and the Hawks, but
they're confident he's going to be healthy for

407
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:40,079
training camp, So that's that's excellent. I think for him. I think

408
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:48,039
DeAndre kind of the sky's the limit
for him. He was looking like kind

409
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,200
of that. He was looking like
that kind of player that everybody kind of

410
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,440
wants on their team, you know, like that guy who can sort of

411
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:00,119
that guy who can really kind of
do it all. Like he was.

412
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,799
He was shooting well, he was
taking guys off the dribble, he was

413
00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:11,440
creating his own shot, he was
playing great defense, He's got great size,

414
00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:15,319
like he was kind of developing into
this like Unicorn player. And then

415
00:28:15,839 --> 00:28:18,960
you know, injuries happened, and
then he came back, and then he

416
00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:23,000
went away again, and then he
came back and then he went away again.

417
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:26,319
You know. It's kind of that. I think the stop and start

418
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,559
made it all far too because then
you come back and then your knee kind

419
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:33,799
of gets inflamed and just stuff like
that. So I think for him,

420
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,240
I think you don't necessarily want to
say, hey, you have to recreate

421
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:40,720
that from the get go, because
he isn't playing the game in a long

422
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,640
time. So for him, it's
just getting comfortable again, getting comfortable again,

423
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,640
getting back to game speed, which
I guess after the offseason, like

424
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,279
all guys have to do that,
but with him in particular, having been

425
00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:55,480
injured, getting back to game speed
and then just kind of trying to pick

426
00:28:55,559 --> 00:28:57,480
up where he left off to the
best of his ability, because he really

427
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:03,799
was flashing such major potential and that's
why it was I mean, in general,

428
00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:07,880
it was a bummer that he got
hurt, but it was also I

429
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,519
think tough for a lot of people
to watch, just because you can't help

430
00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:15,160
but think, what if we had
him healthy, what if we had you

431
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,519
know, blah blah blah, Like
for Hawks fans, I think that's a

432
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,039
that's kind of a tough game to
play, is what if we had what

433
00:29:21,119 --> 00:29:25,680
if Trey Young didn't back into a
Rough's foot, you know, in that

434
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:29,720
series versus Milwaukee. But it happened, and you just have to deal with

435
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,079
it because injuries are a part of
the game. But I think for him

436
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:33,960
it'll just kind of be, you
know, a slow and steady training camp

437
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,079
and then try to pick up where
he left off because he was doing a

438
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:41,359
little bit of everything, which is
what the Hawks needed, everything that they

439
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:45,039
were asking him to do. If
he was doing that and more, do

440
00:29:45,079 --> 00:29:48,960
you think they'll be conservative or more
conservative with his minutes to start the year,

441
00:29:48,359 --> 00:29:52,920
just to sort of monitor how that
right knee is responding to real game

442
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,160
action. Maybe it might be too
soon to say. I wonder how he'll

443
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:03,079
do in training camp. But even
training camp is not exactly, you know,

444
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:06,400
like a real NBA game, So
it might make sense for him to

445
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,519
be on a minute restriction at first. I mean, he's again, he's

446
00:30:08,559 --> 00:30:11,799
a young guy. You don't wanna
You don't want to risk anything. You

447
00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:15,799
know, you don't want to You
don't want to risk his future, you

448
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,400
know, in any way, shape
or form. But it might just depend

449
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,960
on how training camp goes. So
now my question is shifted to just Kevin

450
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,319
Herder or Cam Reddish. Who do
you think is? And I think the

451
00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:29,640
easy answer is Kevin Herder. He's
just he's proven more at the NBA level.

452
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,000
He's definitely more pluggin play on offense. But as a stubborn Cam Reddish

453
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,000
supporter Game six against Milwaukee, I'm
never going to forget about it for him.

454
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:41,799
Who do you think is sort of
more important to Atlanta's long term trajectory

455
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:45,799
when looking at those two guys,
So it's hard to say at this point,

456
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,920
I'm going to give an annoying answer
if it's too soon to say,

457
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:55,359
because it's it's hard to say anything
about Cam Reddish long term before you see

458
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,799
him short term, because that's because
he hasn't done he you know, like

459
00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:06,599
like I said, he had that
amazing game and Camradis just has such potential,

460
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,880
but it hasn't you know, it
hasn't been realized yet. You know,

461
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,319
he's he's still he has a lot
of potential, but he still has

462
00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:18,200
to you know, show that on
the cord and develop. He's he's super

463
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,119
young, he has all the pieces, He's very naturally gifted. Defensively,

464
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,519
he's very long, he gets into
passing lanes, he has great defensive instincts.

465
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:33,279
So I think defensively, I think
that's not really the biggest question.

466
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,680
I think he's he's shown so much
and flashed so much defensively, but I

467
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:44,400
think offensively, it's just a question
of consistency and his shot, because he

468
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,799
was majorly struggling with a shot last
year before getting injured, and then he

469
00:31:49,119 --> 00:31:52,720
came back and obviously showed he can
hit threes, you know, of dribble

470
00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:56,039
no less. Apparently, all of
a sudden he had what did he have?

471
00:31:56,119 --> 00:32:00,759
Like seven? You know, like
I remember watching that game and I

472
00:32:00,759 --> 00:32:02,799
feel like I was having an outer
body experience, just like where did this

473
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,599
come from? Of course, it's
like a playoff game too, right,

474
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,960
I mean like it's he can he
can do it, it's just can you

475
00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:16,880
do it consistently? And again it's
also he a lot of guys blossomed under

476
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,720
Nate, and Cam didn't get that
chance because he didn't He wasn't playing until

477
00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:28,160
that final game because because of injury. And it was an achilles injury too,

478
00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:32,759
which can be tricky. So I
think with Cam, I think a

479
00:32:32,759 --> 00:32:37,559
lot of people are really eager to
see how he does under Nate. He's

480
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:42,880
got a little bit more experience now, having played at least at the beginning

481
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,720
of last season, and it's I
think it's just kind of can he find

482
00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:52,720
that can he develop offensively enough to
pair with his defense, which is clearly

483
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,039
going to be stand out if it
keeps going the way it's going. And

484
00:32:57,079 --> 00:33:00,839
if that's the case, I mean
the Hawks could still use some bulking up

485
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:07,079
defensively, so they'll they'll certainly be
happy to have that added to their you

486
00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:09,960
know, added to to the situation. But I think, I mean,

487
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,200
I think Kevin, given what he
did the second half of last season,

488
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,039
is I mean, he's you know, he's older, he's a little bit

489
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:22,559
further ahead of Cam obviously in development. And I think so, yes,

490
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,200
I would say, you know,
Kevin right now is probably going to do

491
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,200
more for you just because he's in
that place. But Cam has so much

492
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,960
potential. Yeah, can Cam has
so much potential, it's just can he

493
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:37,960
put it all together? Yeah,
You've mentioned Nate a couple of times and

494
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:42,039
sort of how it wasn't just the
Hawks getting healthy last year, because they

495
00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:45,480
were never truly healthy last year.
What were like, there were there any

496
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:50,559
like main differences or just something about
that transition that you noticed that really contributed

497
00:33:50,599 --> 00:33:53,440
to why the Hawks got better or
why some players performed so much better once

498
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:59,839
he took the reins. I think
he A lot of the guys commented on

499
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:07,279
how Nate kind of featured certain guys
offensively and empowered certain guys offensively, particularly

500
00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:10,880
when they had it going, Like
Bogie was coming off the bench for a

501
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:17,880
while and just wasn't really thriving,
and then under Nate they featured Bogie a

502
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,679
little bit more, and then Bogie
became like Steph hurry for a while,

503
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:28,800
like just you know, rating threes
and just really really came into his own

504
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,360
and just kind of jelled a little
bit more So, I think that Nate

505
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,079
when a guy has it going,
Nate is really big on like Okay,

506
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:38,679
we're gonna feature this guy, We're
gonna get this guy the ball. And

507
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:45,400
then I also think with Trey,
I think Nate and Trey have a good

508
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,760
relationship. I think Nate, especially
kind you have that bond kind of having

509
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,760
played the same position, Like I
think there's like a little bit of Maroderie

510
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:58,960
there. And Nate talked about how
Nate told this story, which I thought

511
00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:04,480
was I thought this was awesome that
Nate basically approached Trey and said, you

512
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,000
know, I'm a little bit more
old school, well you're a little bit

513
00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:09,760
more new school. But the best
that we're gonna be is when we kind

514
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:15,760
of mixed the two and they kind
of bonded. And I think that Trey,

515
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:21,119
I think Nate put a lot of
confidence on Trey, but also still

516
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,800
guided him, you know, to
say, Okay, we're gonna fit,

517
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,159
We're gonna we're gonna tweak this,
We're gonna you know, limit turnovers here,

518
00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:30,800
but obviously this is this is your
team, and you're the leader,

519
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,199
like this is you know, this
is on you, this is this is

520
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,519
a this is a lot. It's
a lot on a young guy, but

521
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:39,280
you know, you're you're kind of
the leader in the star of this team.

522
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:45,199
So I think that that relationship kind
of blossomed as well. So I

523
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:47,960
think I think the combination of just
getting guys in the right spot and and

524
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:54,880
trusting guys and featuring them at the
right moments, and then his relationship with

525
00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:00,119
Trey really developing. I think that
did wonders for this team and all so

526
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:06,880
getting kind of the a bugaboo of
the Hawks in the first half was falling

527
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:12,840
apart in the fourth quarter. It's
it's like it was, it was.

528
00:36:13,159 --> 00:36:15,639
It really became a thing, which
you don't want that to be your thing

529
00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:20,280
because then it gets it gets in
your head that that's a thing, and

530
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,800
then it happens before and it's kind
of like a self fulfilling prophecy. And

531
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:29,199
he got them to buckle down defensively
in the fourth quarter, and he got

532
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,840
that, he got them to shed
that reputation, which is obviously not a

533
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,679
reputation you want to have and that
transformed them as well, just buckling down

534
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,400
defensively, like we're not going to
be the team that blows that lead,

535
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:45,199
and they were able to to instead
kind of not even just not do that,

536
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,239
but it kind of became the opposite, Like they became the team that

537
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:52,199
was like had like the best plus
minus point differential in the in the league

538
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:59,639
in the second half. So they
they transformed several ways under Nate. It

539
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,000
just ended up being a good fit. Another thing that I thought was kind

540
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,039
of interesting by their off season is
it felt like they just decided, and

541
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,159
I think correctly just because you look
at where they were in the draft,

542
00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:14,480
like we're gonna take our big swings
there because they went with two polarizing guys

543
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,760
and Jalen Johnson and Shreeve Cooper.
And even as someone who wasn't I'm still

544
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,800
not a Shreeve Cooper guy, he
did have that game in some league where

545
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,840
he decided to hit a bunch of
threes and I was just flabberg acid,

546
00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:28,440
But I thought that was really smart
with what they did. Do you envision

547
00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:31,639
either Jalen Johnson or Shreeve Cooper actually
getting an opportunity to do anything for this

548
00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:35,559
team this year, do you think
it's going to be more of a development

549
00:37:35,639 --> 00:37:38,079
behind the scenes and in the G
League type of situation for both of those

550
00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:44,440
guys, They're gonna have to big
time earn their minutes because you look at

551
00:37:44,559 --> 00:37:47,440
the Hawks roster and you go like
even just position by position one through five,

552
00:37:47,519 --> 00:37:51,119
and you're like, where are you
gonna fit? You know, there's

553
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,639
because there's every single position, there's
a handful of guys that the Hawks are

554
00:37:54,679 --> 00:38:00,119
probably comfortable with. So I mean, they're gonna have to earn it.

555
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:05,360
But I think that especially with you
know, the G League being the Hawks

556
00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:09,119
moved the Skyhawks down to Atlanta,
their G League affiliates, so that that

557
00:38:09,159 --> 00:38:14,039
team is really close now, so
you can you can get the guys some

558
00:38:14,119 --> 00:38:17,159
playing time there and then they can
they can play up as well. And

559
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,000
sure, he's on a two way, so he'll do that. He'll do

560
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:24,760
that anyway. But I think that
those guys the past few years, it's

561
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,480
funny the kind of the young guys
on the team for the Hawks who maybe

562
00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:31,320
would be in that role have been
just playing, you know, because the

563
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:36,199
Hawks needed those guys, They needed
those bodies, they needed minutes from them.

564
00:38:36,199 --> 00:38:38,800
In the NBA, But I think
those guys will have the ability to

565
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:45,920
develop at I think those guys will
have the ability to develop at their own

566
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,400
pace, you know, and get
minutes down in the G League if they

567
00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:55,840
if need be. I do think
Jalen though, I think I think Jalen

568
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,280
with his just I mean, he's
got great size, he seems to have

569
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,800
good instincts. He had a great
summer league, which you don't want to

570
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,800
overreact to summer league. Both him
and Sharif Cooper had a great summer league,

571
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,760
but I think I definitely think Jalen. I mean, I think the

572
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,159
opportunity is going to present itself for
both of those guys, but you know,

573
00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:21,039
it's gonna be tough. They're gonna
have to carve out time because there's

574
00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:25,360
so many There's so many experienced guys
ahead of you as well. But Jalen's

575
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:31,480
got a ton of potential. Sharif's
got potential as well. So I think

576
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:36,320
I think those are both kind of, to your point, intriguing picks.

577
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,400
But I think I think we'll have
the ability to see them at some point.

578
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,400
I think the prevailing sentiment, at
least nationally, has been that the

579
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,800
Hawks can't keep all their guys long
term. You've now extended Cappella, paid

580
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,239
Collins, You've offered Trey Young and
the no brainer Max's extension, and then

581
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,119
Hunter, Hurter and Reddish like they're
all coming up on their next deals,

582
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,599
and then you all will sort of
have Gallo who has after this season one

583
00:40:02,639 --> 00:40:06,719
Carsley guaranteed year left, and you
have Bogey with two more years left after

584
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,880
this one. Do you are they
built to make a big trade if they

585
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,599
want or should we expect maybe it's
not this season but within the next year

586
00:40:14,639 --> 00:40:19,679
and a half to there be some
sort of asset consolidation here or do you

587
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,039
think they will look at this and
if it's working with the current core,

588
00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:25,000
they can say, look, the
cap is going to go up even if

589
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,760
they're smoothing after the next TV deal, and maybe they can afford all these

590
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,559
guys. But when I do look
at the roster and just like some of

591
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:35,400
the contracts that are coming up,
but even with if Onyeka cover was healthy,

592
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,599
but you've already picked Capella and Collins, it does feel like this team.

593
00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:42,639
Yes, the right player has to
come along. The actual star market

594
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,679
or marquee player market needs to develop, but they do sort of low key

595
00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:51,280
feel like they're built for a consolidation
type of trade, even if it's not

596
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,760
right now, sometime down the line. Yes, I think I think that

597
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:02,440
makes sense. I think the Travish
link GM Travishlank has been understandably. We've

598
00:41:02,519 --> 00:41:06,360
you know, we've asked them about
this a few times because it does kind

599
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,599
of seem like, particularly like there's
some guys on the roster like Gallo,

600
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:15,760
like you have salary matching capability.
The Hawks do, so I think that

601
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:22,159
they would have the ability to.
But I think one thing Travis has talked

602
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:27,079
about is, you know, in
today's like in today's market for like a

603
00:41:27,079 --> 00:41:34,400
big star, those guys have a
say in where you're going, you know,

604
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,559
you know, especially nowadays. And
I think kind of a goal for

605
00:41:39,599 --> 00:41:46,000
the Hawks is to become that free
agency destination, you know, which comes

606
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:52,079
with winning. So I think they're
they're definitely doing that with what they did

607
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:55,480
last season, because now you don't
have this picture in your head of you

608
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,639
know, the Hawks story building team. The Hawks are are struggling, the

609
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:01,199
Hawks didn't make the bubble, you
know, stuff like that, and now

610
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:06,079
you now you have a completely different
picture of this team. So I think

611
00:42:06,519 --> 00:42:13,400
I actually pulled up this story that
Travis that I wrote on Travis because he

612
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,039
talked about this a while ago.
But basically he said that last year put

613
00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:20,679
us on put the Hawks on the
map as far as a free agency destination

614
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,360
for stars who now would be open
to coming to Atlanta. But the situation

615
00:42:25,119 --> 00:42:28,719
two things. I mean, one
thing that has to happen is like the

616
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,119
situation has to arise, you know, for that for that timing to happen.

617
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,119
And also they have to want to
come to Atlanta. Oh, you

618
00:42:38,159 --> 00:42:42,239
know, the kind of the stars
have to the stars have to align there

619
00:42:42,679 --> 00:42:46,280
for you. And then he was
also asked how much of a priority it

620
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:51,239
is to get a second star next
to Trey, and he basically said,

621
00:42:52,119 --> 00:42:53,960
you know, you can draft and
develop, go out and acquire through free

622
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:59,199
agency or trade right now, because
there is no right now because we're not

623
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,400
a team that's gonna have space.
It's got to come from internal growth.

624
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:07,679
So it might happen at some point, and they're built to be able to

625
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:12,920
handle it if the situation does arise. But I don't necessarily think that's something

626
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,639
that like they they're thinking, Okay, we've got to do that. This

627
00:43:15,679 --> 00:43:20,360
season, Like, I think they're
happy with the guys that they have and

628
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,880
can at least take one more season
to develop and grow and see what they

629
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,760
turn into. You know, I
don't necessarily think that this season is the

630
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,159
season that has to happen, but
if that were, if the situation were

631
00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:37,679
to arise in the future, they
have some capabilities to make that happen.

632
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,360
You Like, I'm about to shill
on behalf of the Hawks. It's funny

633
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:47,480
how narrow the scope of stardom definition
has become. Because John Collins and Clink

634
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,199
Capella in any given year can make
an All Star team in the Eastern Conference.

635
00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:52,599
I get if you don't view them
as second best player in championship team

636
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:55,519
material, but it's it's just funny
that they have two of those caliber guys.

637
00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:00,000
Or a lot of teams just look
at the Mavericks, they just don't,

638
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:01,440
like, even whatever you think of
Christops, they just don't have that

639
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,920
guy who might be a second All
Star in any given year right now.

640
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,559
The Hawks have two of them,
so there's probably shouldn't be as much of

641
00:44:07,559 --> 00:44:13,960
an urgency to do anything. Yeah, and what about like another thing that

642
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,559
I felt like people kind of forget, which is understandable because he didn't play

643
00:44:16,639 --> 00:44:22,519
much as like DeAndre Hunter was turning
into you know, a potential star too,

644
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:29,360
Like they have a handful of guys
who could really be in that category

645
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,159
that you mentioned. But I also
think I also think that, I mean

646
00:44:34,199 --> 00:44:38,320
clinck of Pella like led the league
in rebounding, like you know, John

647
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:44,360
did what he did. I think
that. I think the Hawks also until

648
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,719
the playoffs came along, they didn't
play on national TV, like hardly at

649
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,239
all, So I think then some
people were like, oh, wow,

650
00:44:50,519 --> 00:44:52,400
clink of Hella is playing really well
for the Hawks. You know, you

651
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:57,519
just didn't know that name necessarily.
You just didn't know that. You didn't

652
00:44:57,559 --> 00:45:00,679
know that, You didn't know that
necessar Saily until maybe the playoffs because people

653
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,360
weren't watching them game in and game
out. But they did have a lot

654
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,079
of guys who were playing really well
next to Trey who could potentially be that,

655
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:14,599
you know, second star. It's
just it's just kind of maybe people

656
00:45:14,639 --> 00:45:17,519
weren't noticing as much until those playoff
that playoff run. When you look at

657
00:45:17,519 --> 00:45:21,119
this roster, is there a type
of player, not even a name,

658
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,199
but that would get them to think
along that route and it's probably just more

659
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:27,519
of a macro question of what do
you still think is the biggest void on

660
00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:31,199
this roster that they still need to
reach that next level in the Eastern Conference

661
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:36,760
landscape, or just to solidify their
place among the contenders or fringe contenders over

662
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:44,039
the bigger picture. I don't know
if there's one big piece that I'm like,

663
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:46,079
Okay, if they could just go
get this one guy. It was

664
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:52,559
more kind of the small things almost. It was more kind of situational.

665
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:59,360
It's more kind of situations where like, Okay, they can't keep struggling when

666
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,480
Trey goes to the bench. They
have to find a way to plug this

667
00:46:02,519 --> 00:46:07,840
situation. So backup point garret,
which it doesn't necessarily fall into the I

668
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:14,400
know we're talking about stars and I
just mentioned a backup, but that's I

669
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,239
think honestly, that was a big
issue for them, And then also just

670
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:22,960
kind of kind of beefing up the
defense a little bit because I think there

671
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:32,320
were some times when Clint had too
much on his plate. Clint was phenomenal

672
00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:37,400
for the Hawks and transformed the defense
in so many ways, but you can't

673
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,119
do everything, and I think there
were some times, particularly early in the

674
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:45,119
season where they were putting they were
putting a lot on his plate right at

675
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:49,000
the rim, kind of as your
your backstop, and not doing enough in

676
00:46:49,039 --> 00:46:52,119
front of him. So, I
mean, I think kind of defending.

677
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:58,639
I think beefing up the defense is
one thing that comes to mind with the

678
00:46:58,639 --> 00:47:04,360
Hawks in addition to back up point
guard, and those aren't necessarily you know,

679
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,199
it's hard to say, like,
Okay, do they need to get

680
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:12,199
one guy or do they just need
to position the roster for those to address

681
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,079
those to address those things, and
I think this, I think this season

682
00:47:15,159 --> 00:47:20,719
will be a pretty good you know, measuring stick and indicator of that.

683
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,440
You know, did we do enough
to make sure we can cover things when

684
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,039
Tray goes to the bench. Do
we have enough defense? You know?

685
00:47:28,159 --> 00:47:30,719
Can we can we defend you know, the point of attack? Can we

686
00:47:31,159 --> 00:47:36,760
have enough in front of Clint to
defend at the level we want to?

687
00:47:37,639 --> 00:47:38,920
But you know, now they've got
they've gotten ate from the get go,

688
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,920
and they've got you know, they
made a few tweaks here and there,

689
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,719
and they're comfortable with their young guys. So I think this year will be

690
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,559
a really good measuring stick. Yeah, that's the I think you can make

691
00:47:51,559 --> 00:47:53,159
a case either way for that team. But it does sort of and this

692
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:58,480
is the the non sexy answer.
You want to get a gauge for what

693
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,360
they have first, just because there
are so many guys that miss time and

694
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,320
you mentioned the point of attack defense. There's a chance now that they go

695
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,079
from just having three guys that they
either didn't have or weren't healthy last year.

696
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:10,199
Who can do that in Delon Right
and then Cam Raddish and DeAndre Hunters

697
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:15,760
were both injured and so there and
they're already on the roster. So so

698
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,800
that's that's why it's it's sometimes it's
hard to almost address like do the Hawks

699
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,760
need this or do the Hawks need
that? And it's like, well,

700
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,719
can I can I get back to
you, give me like a month into

701
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:30,519
the season and let me tell you
because some of these guys and you didn't

702
00:48:30,519 --> 00:48:34,119
really get to see So it's like
they I could say they need this and

703
00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:37,320
they need that, but they might
already have it. We just don't necessarily,

704
00:48:38,199 --> 00:48:42,599
we haven't necessarily seen it all together
yet, you know, if that

705
00:48:42,639 --> 00:48:46,280
makes sense, Teams, good teams
will invariably look to improve the rosters own.

706
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,360
So even it's not a seizemic move. There's a probably a pretty hot

707
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,159
chance they'll do something before the trade
deadline. Do you look at the rosters

708
00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:54,920
of now and we haven't seen the
season unfold obviously, so that makes it

709
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,360
difficult and see a player though that
you think could be the most likely to

710
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,840
be traded, whether one of those
younger wings, just because of the log

711
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,199
jam, not just on the death
chart, which really is in a logjam,

712
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,079
but it's more so the contractual log
jam that they might face, or

713
00:49:07,119 --> 00:49:09,559
just someone else. Maybe it's,
you know, one of the vets that

714
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:20,599
they've already paid in, a gallow
or even a bogey. Maybe there there

715
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:25,079
is one. There is one thing
that I think the Hawks are gonna have

716
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:30,440
to think about, which is that
they've done a good job of acquiring a

717
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:36,079
lot of wings who do a lot
of things that you want done. But

718
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,599
can you consolidate into like that one
guy who does everything for you, which

719
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,760
you know, the guys like that
are hard to come by. But I

720
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:52,239
do think that there might be the
situation where we've got so many young talented

721
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:58,960
wings we can't find them all minutes. We just there's just not enough minutes

722
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,599
in a game, you know,
And we've got so many We've got so

723
00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:06,320
many wings that if we can't play
them, you know, the minutes that

724
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,800
they need, if we don't have
time for all of them, Like is

725
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:15,760
this guy a great trade chip?
I do think that might happen. I

726
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,880
don't know who it's going to be. I mean, we have to wait

727
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,440
and see how the season goes,
but I do think there are there might

728
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,400
be a situation that arises where the
Hawks have so many good wings and so

729
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:30,039
many guys who are capable of contributing, but you can't find minutes for all

730
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:32,360
of those. Inevitably, one guy's
kind of going to get left out a

731
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:37,400
little bit here and there, So
can you then flip that guy for something

732
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,079
else that you need just because they
do have they have so much depth there.

733
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,840
This was kind of something that was
talked about going into last season two,

734
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,639
which was like how do we find
minutes for all these guys? Like

735
00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:52,719
how do our young guys develop when
we're so kind of stacked? But then

736
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,519
so many guys got hurt that that
didn't end up being an issue. But

737
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:59,400
you don't want that to be the
case, you know, but you don't

738
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,960
want like so many people to be
hurt that. Okay, Now there's plenty

739
00:51:02,039 --> 00:51:05,360
time to go around. You know, you want everyone to be healthy,

740
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,719
and if that's the case, then
they might have kind of the too ny

741
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:14,639
guys. You know that sometimes as
us saying goes. So, I do

742
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:22,039
think that you know, they've they've
they've kind of put together like an excellent

743
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:24,039
group of wings. But can you
play them all? Do they all?

744
00:51:24,159 --> 00:51:29,039
Are they all able to find that
role? Just a couple of quick hitters

745
00:51:29,039 --> 00:51:30,800
before I get you out of here. And I know this is definitely matchup

746
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:35,679
based, but what do you think
ends up being their most used closing lineup

747
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:43,400
for this team if they're if they're
fully healthy, of course, right Trey

748
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:51,559
and Clint obviously probably i'd probably go
Trey Bogeye, DeAndre Hunter, John Collins,

749
00:51:51,679 --> 00:51:57,480
Clint if they're all healthy. I
mean, I guess that might change

750
00:51:57,519 --> 00:52:01,480
situationally, but I think that's kind
of going to be their go to of

751
00:52:02,559 --> 00:52:07,400
the the young core with the the
young the expanded core that's kind of your

752
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,920
expanded group of core players that also
has a ton of it, not a

753
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,440
ton, but experience together. So
I think that's probably a good A good

754
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,719
lineup for them, is there?
If you're let's say you're the coach.

755
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,519
You could put any line up on
the floor you want. Is there like

756
00:52:21,519 --> 00:52:24,039
a quirky, offbeat, out of
left field lineup that you think that they

757
00:52:24,039 --> 00:52:27,639
should try or you think would be
fun to just see them roll out?

758
00:52:31,679 --> 00:52:38,559
I would like to see there's This
is tough because there's so many Actually,

759
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:47,599
uh, I would like to see. Honestly, I don't know if it's

760
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:52,480
so much as a lineup as at
one point I want to see. I

761
00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:59,760
just want to see Jaywen Johnson play. And I'm so intrigued as to how

762
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:06,559
he's gonna go. I think i'd
like to see. Can I just say

763
00:53:06,639 --> 00:53:12,559
Jayalen Johnson out there? Jayalen Johnson's
fine alongside either Clint or John. I'm

764
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:16,679
just so intrigued as to how he's
gonna fit. So I'll say, I'll

765
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,400
say, and in honor of that, I'll say mine is because this team

766
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,360
was tough. If you put Trey
at the one, Collins at the five,

767
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,320
and then just give me, like
all the defensive Wayns who might be

768
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:30,079
able to do something on offense,
and Hunter Reddish and Jalen Johnson, give

769
00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:32,559
me give me that set up.
They really don't have a reason to try

770
00:53:32,559 --> 00:53:37,239
that unless there's mass injuries, but
I would love to see that one.

771
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:40,320
Yeah. I also am intrigued,
like if they could do like either.

772
00:53:42,199 --> 00:53:45,519
I'm I really get really entertained when
there's like a tiny lineup and then like

773
00:53:45,559 --> 00:53:50,440
a gigantic lineup, you know.
Jalen Johnson at the five said, Yeah,

774
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:55,239
I don't know. I'm just so
intrigued at how he's gonna do at

775
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,840
this level. I mean, it
might not happen too much this season,

776
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:04,719
but I just think his ability to
pass is is going to be interesting too.

777
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,360
So that wasn't a very fun answer, but Jalen Johnson Gyalen Johnson at

778
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,679
the five is a very fun answer. It's yeah, I mean, I

779
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,800
mean, I want to see it. I don't know, let's just throw

780
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,320
it out there one day. The
final question is, as we record this,

781
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,800
they're over under a set at forty
seven point five. Do you expect

782
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:22,039
them if you had to choose,
would it be the over the under for

783
00:54:22,039 --> 00:54:24,800
that? And where do you sort
of see them stacking up in the East

784
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:32,360
if they're healthy, I would take
the over. I do think that this

785
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:37,719
team has a lot of potential if
they can stay healthy, which is the

786
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:42,119
caveat that. If you've listened to
this whole podcast, you've probably heard me

787
00:54:42,159 --> 00:54:46,400
say the word healthy like seventy times, So I know I'm repeating myself a

788
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:52,000
lot there, But I think that
I just think that's kind of going to

789
00:54:52,039 --> 00:54:55,960
be this team staying But if they
can stay healthy, then yeah, definitely

790
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:04,199
the over there. And I think
I I think that this team. I

791
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,480
think that this team has a lot
of potential. Sometimes in the playoffs,

792
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,760
you know, you don't know what's
gonna happen, like, are you gonna

793
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,079
are you gonna stay healthy? Are
you going to run into a super team?

794
00:55:14,119 --> 00:55:17,119
You know, how's how's all of
that gonna go? But I do

795
00:55:17,199 --> 00:55:23,559
think this team has potential to get
into the playoffs and make noise. Yet

796
00:55:23,639 --> 00:55:28,800
again, yeah, I'm sort of
peeved at how comfortable I am smashing the

797
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,920
over for this team. And I
think last year we were talking, I

798
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,519
said I was worried that they might
have rushed it a year or too quickly.

799
00:55:34,599 --> 00:55:37,599
But then after watching what they did
a mid injuries, especially when Nate

800
00:55:37,639 --> 00:55:39,000
McMillan took over and in the playoffs, and you look at their roster,

801
00:55:39,119 --> 00:55:43,679
now this has been going through it
was an easy over for me, and

802
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:45,760
I think in the East, we
can't even really get into what the pecking

803
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:49,639
would looks like. I would say
the only teams I would definitively put in

804
00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:52,760
front of them though, are Milwaukee
and Brooklyn. And if I think some

805
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,159
people make the case for Miami,
I'm not quite there yet. I need

806
00:55:55,159 --> 00:55:59,519
to see what their offerense looks like. But they're like they have a real

807
00:55:59,559 --> 00:56:04,599
shot at cracking the top four,
if not even the top three. Well,

808
00:56:04,599 --> 00:56:07,039
and that's the goal. I mean, obviously you're not going to go

809
00:56:07,079 --> 00:56:14,039
to the conference finals every year,
but that's the goal for this team,

810
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,960
is you know, they were the
fifth seed because they were sucked by the

811
00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:22,280
Knicks in the regular season and then
they got to the playoffs and they crushed

812
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:27,239
the Knicks in five games. So
it has an ownership stake in the Knicks

813
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,840
at this point. I actually think
I know that. But oh, I

814
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:36,719
know, I saw he went back
to MSG for with w W. Yeah

815
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,840
I think it was. It was
one of the pro wrestling leagues. Yeah,

816
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:44,519
Oh my gosh, that was a
who that was so funny. But

817
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,679
yeah, I mean I think so
they've Schlank has kind of said that the

818
00:56:47,679 --> 00:56:53,280
goal for this season is to aim
to get kind of that home field home

819
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,400
court advantage, you know, in
the playoffs. So I think that that's

820
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,199
a realistic goal, you know,
p divided, they can stay healthy and

821
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:05,000
build on what they did last season, true deform. I kept you longer

822
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,239
than I said that I would.
But is there anything else I didn't ask

823
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,679
you about that you think needs to
be covered or briefly discussed about about the

824
00:57:09,679 --> 00:57:15,280
Hawks? I don't. I don't
think so. I think we covered pretty

825
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:20,880
much everything about the Hawks that's intriguing, from DeAndre Hunter at Cam Ruddish to

826
00:57:21,679 --> 00:57:25,000
Jalen Johnson at the five. Jalen
Johnson at the five. I want to

827
00:57:25,039 --> 00:57:28,719
see it at some point, but
no, I think we covered pretty much

828
00:57:28,719 --> 00:57:31,639
everything. Can you tell our listeners
where they can find your work? Maybe

829
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:37,400
some videos of Millie as well.
Yes, I'm on Twitter at Sarah underscore

830
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:44,159
k Underscore Spence. I tweet mostly
about Millie, sometimes about basketball, and

831
00:57:44,679 --> 00:57:47,880
AJC dot com is where you'll find
all my stuff. Sarah, Thank you

832
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,840
again so much for giving me a
bunch of your time, and I think,

833
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,679
as you know by now, I
will be pestoring you again in the

834
00:57:53,719 --> 00:57:57,320
future. So thank you so much
for coming on. I love to be

835
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,280
pestered, so it's good, but
not not that man.