What is Krack Oak and Harvard Knocks listeners, I am Dan Valley coming at
you once more without my fantabulous co host Adam FROMMEOL. I am, however,
excited as always to keep our season look ahead train a roll in.
Today we're gonna be talking about the Atlanta Hawks with Sarah K. Spencer.
She covers the Atlanta Hawks for the AGC otherwise known as the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
She does a fantastic job, publishes great stories over there. There's always
something every once in whilse seems like she publishes that's just really fun and and
offbeat. Great follow on Twitter. So you follow her on Twitter at Sarah
Underscore k Underscore Spence spelled exactly as it sounds. Before we dive into a
conversation about the Hawks and puppies. Don't worry, there are puppy references throughout
this podcast. Just a reminder to please please a pretty please with sugar on
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We are not We're more than halfway two thousand subscribers, and we've only
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Thanks? For listening to us. I really appreciate it. But subscribe
to us, consider that, download all our episodes, great review wherever you're
getting your podcast. With that out of the way, let's get to all
things Atlanta Hawks with Sarah Kay Spencer from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Sarah,
thank you so much for coming back on Hardwood Knox to talk some Atlanta Hawks
with me. First and foremost, though, how are you doing. How's
your off season been? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. No,
I it's been amazing off season. I actually got married, so it's
been like busy but relaxed and great too. So no, it's just been
it's just been wonderful. But now everything is starting to really really ramp up,
and I think the Hawks have a really interesting season in store, so
that's exciting too. Well, congratulations are getting married, and also congratulations on
did you just get your dog? Millie? Was this like right around the
off season? So Millie is. She's also in the background eating some peanut
butter right now. So if anyone hears like licking noises, oh so we're
hoping she behaves. We got her I think almost three months ago or a
little bit less, so now she's like I remember bringing her home and she's
just like tiny cotton ball. And now she's like, she's almost thirty pounds.
She might end up being like close to fifty pounds. So she's she's
a unit already a little under six months. So no, she's she's the
best. It's been exciting. What type of a dog is she? She's
an Australian Shepherd. To see pictures of her, just go on my Twitter.
I just spam. It's not even hawks content anymore. I just spam
my Twitter with pictures of Millie. I have to stop myself from posting too
many pictures of my dog. So I totally feel you there. It's so
like it's so athartic though, and I feel like whenever I see pictures of
other people's dogs, particularly before I had a dog, but even still now,
it makes it made me so happy. So now that I have a
dog, I'm like, hey, if you're having a rough day, here's
this picture of Milli napping. And I don't know, I maybe people are
annoyed with it, but I like it. I love seeing videos and pictures
of puppies. These were like, really my first two puppies, all my
other dogs I kind of had when they were a little bit older, and
puppies clearly aren't for me. Like now that they're dogs, I really love
them. But I was like we were overwhelmed by it because we were I
think both of us had like family dogs growing up, but like you're kind
of a child and not really understanding the depth of having a puppy. And
so we got hurt when she was little and we brought her home and we
were like, even like the car ride home, she just wouldn't stop like
wailing because she was it was nervous, and we were just like looking at
each other like this is did we bite off more and we can show And
the first few weeks were tough, but now she's she's settled down now and
now she actually like looks like an adult dog and not just like a little
cute chip. Yeah, that's why I love other people's puppies though, because
I'm not dealing with the responsibility of said puppies. Yes, puppies are so
much, but the Atlanta Hawks, that is quite the segue puppies to the
Atlanta Hawks, who they might be puppies of the contender. Click, there's
the lets the natural segue speaking of animals, there's all birds. This is
the Hawks. That's the best I can do. Is it fair to say
the theme of their off season was kind of let's just keep this together,
lock our core down, but without really consigning ourselves to one direction for too
long A little bit, I mean, I think to Hawks. I think
the thing with the Hawks, I mean, especially making it as far as
they did in the playoffs last season, overcoming a ton, really really loving
Nate at the helm. I think the Hawks are are very used with their
roster. They had a few holes to fill here and there. Obviously they're
building around Trey for the long term. Obviously they extended Capella and those two
guys as your bookends. They really like that pairing. They had a decision
to make with John Collins. They're keeping John around, which I think was
the right decision. In addition to the way he's growing as a player,
he's just such a vital, vital, kind of like the heart of the
team. So he's vital piece for them as well, in addition to what
he does on the court. So they like their guys, they like their
core. They kind of have the Since the Hawks have been rebuilding They've had
like their kind of core five guys, and then now they have the expanded
core because you've added a guy like Clink Capella, You've added a guy like
Bogie who's very important to what they do. So I think the Hawks went
into this offseason knowing that Anyaka Akongu was banged up, Okay, we've got
to add a little depthis center. They did that knowing that, you know,
backup point guard has kind of been and depth in the backcourt has kind
of been a tough issue for a few years now. They added deln right,
So I mean, I think they went into the into the off season
thinking, Okay, here's how we plug this and that, as opposed to
here's how we transform, because they're not really at that phase anymore. They're
happy with where they are. This is, this is a good roster.
They just needed to patch some issues here and there. So I think that's
that's what they did. They weren't really trying to like blow the lid off
anything. They just needed to tweak some things here and there. And I
think I mean, as far as they even could have tried to blown off
the lid, I guess they could have. They really wanted to. I
thought it was smart because they did make it to the conference finals, but
it's like what happens in a normal season under those circumstances, And I do
think teams sometimes read too much into those results and it's clear that they really
didn't and you could, you know. I think some people thought the Clink
Capella extension was why did it happened this year? That felt a touch too
soon. Maybe some people didn't think John Collins was worth the deal. I
actually thought that was just like one of those contracts you look at it like,
that makes sense. We're both sides, the player option at the end,
the pay grade and everything, and so I kind of I kind of
like that day. I like what they did overall, because they didn't do
too much, and then you dig into their roster and it's like they could
just organically get a lot better. If Bogey doesn't miss nearly twenty games,
if you have a backup point guard who plays in more than four games during
the regular season, if Cam Reddish and or DeAndre Hunter are healthy, and
so there's still much about the actual core that you have room to grow,
or at least room to see where even if they had to even if they're
looking at this as we're going full steam ahead and we need to be in
the contender circle, there's enough unknowns in a good way on their roster that
they're kind of getting additions without actually making any additions. That's no, that's
that's very very well put because I think they feel really confident that even the
past few years when they've been rebuilding. Yes, they brought in guys from
outside, but they're they the Hawks have drafted well, and they're confident in
the guys, even the guys who they picked like later in the first round,
like John you know, I haven't heard her like guys like that.
They're confident they're going to hit on those guys, and those guys are going
to continue to develop. I mean, the past few years, you've been
starting like a group of twenty two year olds, and now you know they're
like twenty three, they're twenty four. You know, they're growing up a
little bit. So you continue to develop those guys. And I think another
kind of common misconception is that the Hawks, when Nate McMillan took over,
the Hawks suddenly got healthy. That wasn't the case. They actually almost got
more injured they were injured the whole season, so they made this amazing run,
and yet they were still missing a lot of guys, and a lot
of guys weren't one hundred percent bog He wasn't one hundred percent. He was
dealing with some neat issues. They didn't have DeAndre Hunter at all there at
the end. Camraddish came back and had an awesome game, but he wasn't
there for the awesome game. That just speaks to like the availability. He
came back and he had he had an awesome game, but he wasn't there
like the whole second half. So you I have a lot of guys who
I think they're confident that when those guys hopefully are healthy and available, you
know, high performing pieces, that's enough for us to get to the next
level. We don't have to go in there and shake everything up. We
don't want to shake everything up. We're confident with what we have, so
why would we disrupt it to you know, to a crazy degree. So
I mean, I think that that's kind of the question now, is what
happens with those guys. You know, Camradish had an excellent game, and
Camradish has so much potential what does he do with it? Cam Radish didn't
really get to play Undernate except for one game, you know, so you
don't you don't know what that's gonna look like. What's DeAndre Hunter going to
look like? After a phenomenal, phenomenal second season but obviously kind of an
incomplete season because of injury stuff too. So I think that if the Hawks
can stay healthy, I think they they like their young guys and what those
young guys can can bring to the table. Try y'all believe it or not,
is among those young guys still only twenty three just a puppy, as
would be the theme of this podcast. What I'm having trouble and visioning because
it's because he is still so young and already so good. What does the
next level of t like? How does Trey Young improver? How does he
get better? And the other thing that's attached that is do you think his
game is impacted at all by the NBA cracking down on those freedom of movement
rules at the offensive end? I think it is, yes, but I
don't think it's gonna I think he's gonna have to adjust, but I don't
think it's gonna like completely throw him off if that makes sense, Like he's
gonna have to adjust because when you look at like I spoke with one of
kind of the head referees who's in charge of the way they're gonna officiate like
non basketball moves differently, And I mean it's it's kind of an enigmatic thing,
like it's it's hard to pin down, Like even when you look at
videos of all these different moves, it's kind of like targeting in football.
You're like, okay, but what about in this situation. So just see
how it goes. But I do think sometimes when he pumped fakes and kind
of like goes into guys a little bit, I think they might end up
calling that, uh is that squeaker too loud? That's totally fine, but
ours in the background. Okay, everyone, I can recommend this octopus toy
to you that Milly's obsessed with. It keeps her occupied, but it is
loud. Yeah, I mean she's officially an influencer now she Yeah. Really,
no one cares about like anything regarding me on my social media. Everyone
is just like, we're Billy. Yeah, it's a great it's a great
octopus toy. But yeah, no, I think that he will have to
adjust, but like he's gonna adjust. His game is so fluid, you
know, he's he's not That's not what he like solely relies on. So
it's not like that's his main thing. Like sometimes guys get known for stuff
like that, but that's that's not really his main thing. So I think
he'll adjust, and I think that'll probably be fine moving forward. I think
he's not the only guy who's gonna have to adjust. There's a lot of
guys who are going to have to because that's kind of become part of the
game the last few years. So but they're they'll adjusted. But yeah,
no, I mean, I think the thing for Trey moving forward, I
don't think it's anything super transformational. If I were to say one thing as
far as how Tray can grow his game, I think I'm gonna echo something
that Naate Vic Millan has said a lot, which is just limiting turnovers.
I don't think it's anything too crazy. I think it's something they made us
said a few times, as Trey is too good to have four or five
six turnovers a game, and some of that in previous years has been he's
kind of trying to maybe you didn't have a supporting cast you had, so
he's kind of trying to get guys in certain situations. But I think I
think this past year under Night you did see improvement on that. You saw
more like two three in that range, and that's kind of what you want
to keep him. So I think for Trey it's simple and I think that
might come. He's always going to have some turnovers because you have the ball
on your hands so much, and that's going to happen. But I think
just limiting that and making those smart plays is going to be key for him.
I mean, he he's shown he has an elite floater game. He
has shown he could, you know, shoot from the logo. He's shown
that he's one of the best passers in the league. He's shown that he
can deliver in the clutch in the biggest way. So he's shown all those
things. I think now it's just kind of it's just his game maturing and
limiting turnovers. You mentioned he's the ball in his hands a lot, and
the offense was pretty bad without him last Year's probably the kindest way to put
it for them. I'm wondering, do you think that they have enough on
this roster between adding Delon Wright, keeping lou Will, having let's say Bogie
b be healthier to better navigate those those offensive minutes without Trey Young on the
floor this year, I do, especially if Kevin Hurder continues to be what
he was this year for the Hawks. It was kind of funny going into
this past season, there were all these questions of, Wow, the Hawks
almost have too many guys, like how do they get minutes for all these
guys? And then that ended up not remotely being an issue because of the
way that guys got hurt and Kevin Hurder ended up being kind of like a
go to guy. And what happened is he completely blossomed. He was known
as a kind of a I guess he was known for being a three point
shooter, but then really blossomed as a defender, which was cool to watch.
And then he ends up being like their Game seven hero against the Sixers,
you know, sending you to sending you to the conference finals. So
he actually played a little bit. He kind of ran the point a little
bit sometimes this past year when when Trey was out just injured a game here,
a game there. So I think with those with that group of guys.
Yes, I think they're going to have enough, but it has been
a question. It's just it's it's hard to find, you know, like
because part of me wants to say, yeah, it's been an issue for
them for a long time, but those reliable backup point guards are that's that's
a hard niche that's a hard get to find a perfect guy to fill role.
So I think they have a handful of guys that can come together and
fill that role. And it will be interesting to see how Dalon fits in.
I like that fit in theory. We'll have to see how it looks.
But all all of those guys that we just talked about, like Kevin's
an excellent passer, Bogie's a good passer, you know, lose a little
bit more of a two, but he I mean, he single handedly won
the Hawks several games last year just coming alive on the fourth and he probably
did more than that just with the experience that he brings. So I do
think they have enough kind of but it's not just behind Tray. I do
think they have enough behind and alongside him, but I think there are going
to be some combinations thereof in order to have enough kind of playmaking and passing
on the court when Trey inevitably at some point has to go to the bench.
And I was looking in advance of this pod at some of the lineups
without Trey that might have worked, and it was very limited sample size,
but the Hawks absolutely annihilated opponents when lou Will and Bogey played together last year
without Trey Young. And if Kevin Hurder is gonna stick with his defensive improvement,
it makes it easier to insert him in those lineups. But as you
mentioned, there's also Delon Wright. Because of the positional maaluability he gives you
on defense, you can maybe insert him into that duo and that becomes something
where no, I think that they're going to outscore opponents. I think it
was by twelve points per one hundred possessions with those two on the court without
Trey. Probably not, but it makes it a little bit more sustainable because
you mentioned it's sort of like a replacing Trey by committee in those minutes.
It makes it easier if you have the defensive talent to pair with that offensive
talent, which maybe they do now between right Hurder's improvement, and you can
of course play Capella in the middle during some of those stretches as well.
Exactly, it's not just you have It's just not a situation where you have
one guy who comes off the bench and it's like, okay, now I'm
leading everything. You know, It's it's a little bit different than that.
It's a it's a combination of guys thereof who also, like you mentioned with
Kevin and Delon, if you bring that defensive intensity as well, you're kind
of compensating in other ways. So I just think there's gonna be I think
they have enough with different combinations to make it work. I mean, we've
got to see and that obviously assumes all those guys stay stay healthy, which
has just been that was just kind of a big, a big issue for
them last year. And it sounds silly to talk about because obviously they made
it work and they still like made it to the conference finals. But it
just it just felt like that was just such a nagging thing that they just
couldn't stay healthy. But I know it, to be fair, a lot
of teams had not issue because you're playing every day and it was a brutal
season and it was such a unique season too, So I think this year
getting back to kind of normal, you know, not completely normal, but
kind of normal. It's gonna be it's gonna be kind of going back.
It's gonna be a change, you know, for these guys after a year
of kind of that condensed schedule, and I know it was tough on a
lot of a lot of teams. Uh. You mentioned already that Onyeko Kongu
is banged up with him out. Do we just wantamatically assume that John Collins
will take on even more sort of back up five minutes, even though he'll
start next to Capello. Where do you see them? You know, is
Gorgy Jang going to play a ton with this team? Do they maybe even
consider downsizing where Gallinari is Sometimes they're five in second units or against we just
assume that Collins is going to take on a lot of those reps. Now,
I think it could go a couple different ways. I think another,
I mean, the Hawks have a couple of different ways they can do it.
But I think yes, I think John kind of especially because the Hawks
are not you know, the Hawks are trying to win, you know,
and so I think there will be sometimes where you just kind of give those
minutes to the guy who you know is experienced and you trust him there and
that's John. But they did add some depth for that purpose. But it's
it's disappointing though that a Yucca who had a good playoffs was really starting to
come on strong after a tough few months, kind of early months in the
league, where again it was because of injury. I think that he kind
of struggled when he first got out there, but he's not going to be
out the whole season. He's going to be out for the first several months
of the season, but he's not gonna be out the whole season. So
I think they'll triage it for the first few months and then you know,
you'll be able to bring him back, which I think is good because I
think playing behind Clint Capella and alongside John Collins if possible, kind of helps
on YECCA because you're around two experienced players. What did you think of Collins
in the playoffs? There are people that sort of pointed to his stat line
was just modest when you looked at it, But I was watching him and
I came away on most games just super impressed with what he was doing.
Because when you're looking on offense, it's an adjustment to have to play alongside
Clink Capella because you're all of a sudden no longer the primary dive guy.
And it felt like he was finding more ways to impact on offense, whether
he was popping even you know, his three ball wasn't always even falling.
Then I'm watching him on defense and there's like this was not the case in
every game of every series, but he's like defending guys who actually put the
ball on the floor and have like unpredictability to their off the dribble attacks,
and he's holding up quite well. And it felt like maybe overstating it to
say that he turned a corner, but like, this is someone that I
think probably needs to be reevaluated even more because it seems to me like he's
now capable of playing so many different roles, or at the very least a
player that doesn't have a ton of exploitable weaknesses, as people I think thought
even leading into last season. Yeah, I mean, I think John John's
game has grown a ton in ways that doesn't in a lot of ways that
don't show up in the box score the way you'd expect. He has gotten
a ton of credit from the front office, from Nate McMillan. He's gotten
a ton of credit for being a guy who whose stats are going to go
down a little bit, but the Hawks wins are going to soar because,
like you said, he's not that you know now when Trey, Now,
Trey has two guys he can pare with, you know, like he has
Clint as a room runner. Obviously, John, that's this thing as well.
I think one thing that's helped John with that though, with that adjustment
is being a good three point shooter. He's actually a surprisingly good three point
shooter, so I think that's helped his game a lot. But you know,
it's one of those things where you are going to score less because there's
fewer touches to go around. That's that's the thing on a winning team,
you know, you're not gonna get every single touch every single time because there's
more talent, there's more depth on the court. There's more talent on the
court. But I think he's also improved defensively a lot. Like you mentioned
him, uh you mentioned him taking on guys you know who are dribble driving
or you know, he's he really he really has grown as a defender.
That's another thing. That's not always going to show up and it's not always
going to show up as blocks, you know, at the night. But
that doesn't mean he's not That doesn't mean he's not containing, that doesn't mean
he's not making guys change their shots, you know. That doesn't mean that
he's not doing all of those things. So, I mean, I I
personally thought the Hawks keeping John and I thought that was a good deal for
both sides. He made it like abundantly clear he wanted to say the Hawks
in the end kept him around, and I think that was I think that
was the right decision. I think his game has grown a ton, and
because he's the longest tenured talk so, because he's been around so long,
get the perception that he's like older than he is. I think it's still
a young core guy. Yeah, exactly exactly. It's puffies, it's it's
it's a it's still a young group of guys who are really developing. And
I think I think John is kind of a big example of that. And
I think that when Clink came along, I think that he could have been,
you know, disheartened by that a little bit, just because you are
going to have to have some personal sacrifice there, but it makes it I
think it makes it easier when you're winning and you see, Okay, if
I do this, we're gonna win, you know. And and he was
a big part of that because of the way he's grown on both ends of
the floor. And it's good for them that it seems like just watching him
on the court, and I know there was the reports like it was early
last year, I've lost all sense of time about like friction between what he
thought about try Young having the ball too much beyond Trey Young, like there
are just other guys on this team now you look at lou Will, Bogdanovich,
Gallo, who are going to have the ball in their hands. And
so if you have someone who is just committed to sort of fitting in and
complimenting wherever he can, accessorizing wherever he can, that ends up being a
huge deal, especially if he's I always thought this about Klinkapelle and Houston when
you look at the point he was in his career and John Collins is sort
of at the same point at given his age, you could want more touches,
you could want to try and broaden your game, But if he really
is committed to or just doesn't mind kind of fitting in and filling the gaps
on offense and just depending on which lineup season that ends up being absolutely monstrous
for this team in their development. Yeah, I agree. I think that
when you have a roster like the Hawks have, which you don't necessarily have
like a ton of guys who are like you know previous all start, you
know, you don't necessarily have a lot of guys who are who are have
done that yet, but you have a lot of good young talent who's willing
to be that's willing to be flexible. And I think that's what's key.
And I think that's what they tried to kind of and John's exhibit a of
that, and I think that's kind of what they tried to drive home last
year is you're gonna have to sacrifice a few minutes, You're gonna have to
sacrifice a few points, but we're going to the Eastern Conference finals. So
so it worked out last year. Per my notes, when I was looking
at last year's outing for this podcast, I asked you who was the most
important way to the Hawks, between Herder, Reddish and Hunter. You had
said Hunter, I was holding I'd hoped for Reddish. You were one hundred
and fifty percent right on Hunter, even though he didn't play much. It
just he was in the early m IP discussion just based off when you looked
at his offensive game. He was doing things off the dribble. Of course,
he unlocked so many lineups for them if they want defensively. What are
realistic expectations now for him heading into this year, given that he missed so
much time last year and was dealing with pretty serious injuries during that stretch.
I mean, I think the biggest thing is just for him to start out.
I think that it's just about him getting comfortable again with the ball in
his hands, getting comfortable again, just planting, cutting, that kind of
thing. I think. I think it's kind of like a slow and steady
approach because, like you said, he was he was hurt, and I
mean, it wasn't necessarily like the mildest thing, you know, like it
was. It was a it was an injury that you don't you don't want
to have, you know, early in your career. It's it's just tough.
I think that I think that it was a it was a tough setback
for him and the Hawks, but they're confident he's going to be healthy for
training camp, So that's that's excellent. I think for him. I think
DeAndre kind of the sky's the limit for him. He was looking like kind
of that. He was looking like that kind of player that everybody kind of
wants on their team, you know, like that guy who can sort of
that guy who can really kind of do it all. Like he was.
He was shooting well, he was taking guys off the dribble, he was
creating his own shot, he was playing great defense, He's got great size,
like he was kind of developing into this like Unicorn player. And then
you know, injuries happened, and then he came back, and then he
went away again, and then he came back and then he went away again.
You know. It's kind of that. I think the stop and start
made it all far too because then you come back and then your knee kind
of gets inflamed and just stuff like that. So I think for him,
I think you don't necessarily want to say, hey, you have to recreate
that from the get go, because he isn't playing the game in a long
time. So for him, it's just getting comfortable again, getting comfortable again,
getting back to game speed, which I guess after the offseason, like
all guys have to do that, but with him in particular, having been
injured, getting back to game speed and then just kind of trying to pick
up where he left off to the best of his ability, because he really
was flashing such major potential and that's why it was I mean, in general,
it was a bummer that he got hurt, but it was also I
think tough for a lot of people to watch, just because you can't help
but think, what if we had him healthy, what if we had you
know, blah blah blah, Like for Hawks fans, I think that's a
that's kind of a tough game to play, is what if we had what
if Trey Young didn't back into a Rough's foot, you know, in that
series versus Milwaukee. But it happened, and you just have to deal with
it because injuries are a part of the game. But I think for him
it'll just kind of be, you know, a slow and steady training camp
and then try to pick up where he left off because he was doing a
little bit of everything, which is what the Hawks needed, everything that they
were asking him to do. If he was doing that and more, do
you think they'll be conservative or more conservative with his minutes to start the year,
just to sort of monitor how that right knee is responding to real game
action. Maybe it might be too soon to say. I wonder how he'll
do in training camp. But even training camp is not exactly, you know,
like a real NBA game, So it might make sense for him to
be on a minute restriction at first. I mean, he's again, he's
a young guy. You don't wanna You don't want to risk anything. You
know, you don't want to You don't want to risk his future, you
know, in any way, shape or form. But it might just depend
on how training camp goes. So now my question is shifted to just Kevin
Herder or Cam Reddish. Who do you think is? And I think the
easy answer is Kevin Herder. He's just he's proven more at the NBA level.
He's definitely more pluggin play on offense. But as a stubborn Cam Reddish
supporter Game six against Milwaukee, I'm never going to forget about it for him.
Who do you think is sort of more important to Atlanta's long term trajectory
when looking at those two guys, So it's hard to say at this point,
I'm going to give an annoying answer if it's too soon to say,
because it's it's hard to say anything about Cam Reddish long term before you see
him short term, because that's because he hasn't done he you know, like
like I said, he had that amazing game and Camradis just has such potential,
but it hasn't you know, it hasn't been realized yet. You know,
he's he's still he has a lot of potential, but he still has
to you know, show that on the cord and develop. He's he's super
young, he has all the pieces, He's very naturally gifted. Defensively,
he's very long, he gets into passing lanes, he has great defensive instincts.
So I think defensively, I think that's not really the biggest question.
I think he's he's shown so much and flashed so much defensively, but I
think offensively, it's just a question of consistency and his shot, because he
was majorly struggling with a shot last year before getting injured, and then he
came back and obviously showed he can hit threes, you know, of dribble
no less. Apparently, all of a sudden he had what did he have?
Like seven? You know, like I remember watching that game and I
feel like I was having an outer body experience, just like where did this
come from? Of course, it's like a playoff game too, right,
I mean like it's he can he can do it, it's just can you
do it consistently? And again it's also he a lot of guys blossomed under
Nate, and Cam didn't get that chance because he didn't He wasn't playing until
that final game because because of injury. And it was an achilles injury too,
which can be tricky. So I think with Cam, I think a
lot of people are really eager to see how he does under Nate. He's
got a little bit more experience now, having played at least at the beginning
of last season, and it's I think it's just kind of can he find
that can he develop offensively enough to pair with his defense, which is clearly
going to be stand out if it keeps going the way it's going. And
if that's the case, I mean the Hawks could still use some bulking up
defensively, so they'll they'll certainly be happy to have that added to their you
know, added to to the situation. But I think, I mean,
I think Kevin, given what he did the second half of last season,
is I mean, he's you know, he's older, he's a little bit
further ahead of Cam obviously in development. And I think so, yes,
I would say, you know, Kevin right now is probably going to do
more for you just because he's in that place. But Cam has so much
potential. Yeah, can Cam has so much potential, it's just can he
put it all together? Yeah, You've mentioned Nate a couple of times and
sort of how it wasn't just the Hawks getting healthy last year, because they
were never truly healthy last year. What were like, there were there any
like main differences or just something about that transition that you noticed that really contributed
to why the Hawks got better or why some players performed so much better once
he took the reins. I think he A lot of the guys commented on
how Nate kind of featured certain guys offensively and empowered certain guys offensively, particularly
when they had it going, Like Bogie was coming off the bench for a
while and just wasn't really thriving, and then under Nate they featured Bogie a
little bit more, and then Bogie became like Steph hurry for a while,
like just you know, rating threes and just really really came into his own
and just kind of jelled a little bit more So, I think that Nate
when a guy has it going, Nate is really big on like Okay,
we're gonna feature this guy, We're gonna get this guy the ball. And
then I also think with Trey, I think Nate and Trey have a good
relationship. I think Nate, especially kind you have that bond kind of having
played the same position, Like I think there's like a little bit of Maroderie
there. And Nate talked about how Nate told this story, which I thought
was I thought this was awesome that Nate basically approached Trey and said, you
know, I'm a little bit more old school, well you're a little bit
more new school. But the best that we're gonna be is when we kind
of mixed the two and they kind of bonded. And I think that Trey,
I think Nate put a lot of confidence on Trey, but also still
guided him, you know, to say, Okay, we're gonna fit,
We're gonna we're gonna tweak this, We're gonna you know, limit turnovers here,
but obviously this is this is your team, and you're the leader,
like this is you know, this is on you, this is this is
a this is a lot. It's a lot on a young guy, but
you know, you're you're kind of the leader in the star of this team.
So I think that that relationship kind of blossomed as well. So I
think I think the combination of just getting guys in the right spot and and
trusting guys and featuring them at the right moments, and then his relationship with
Trey really developing. I think that did wonders for this team and all so
getting kind of the a bugaboo of the Hawks in the first half was falling
apart in the fourth quarter. It's it's like it was, it was.
It really became a thing, which you don't want that to be your thing
because then it gets it gets in your head that that's a thing, and
then it happens before and it's kind of like a self fulfilling prophecy. And
he got them to buckle down defensively in the fourth quarter, and he got
that, he got them to shed that reputation, which is obviously not a
reputation you want to have and that transformed them as well, just buckling down
defensively, like we're not going to be the team that blows that lead,
and they were able to to instead kind of not even just not do that,
but it kind of became the opposite, Like they became the team that
was like had like the best plus minus point differential in the in the league
in the second half. So they they transformed several ways under Nate. It
just ended up being a good fit. Another thing that I thought was kind
of interesting by their off season is it felt like they just decided, and
I think correctly just because you look at where they were in the draft,
like we're gonna take our big swings there because they went with two polarizing guys
and Jalen Johnson and Shreeve Cooper. And even as someone who wasn't I'm still
not a Shreeve Cooper guy, he did have that game in some league where
he decided to hit a bunch of threes and I was just flabberg acid,
But I thought that was really smart with what they did. Do you envision
either Jalen Johnson or Shreeve Cooper actually getting an opportunity to do anything for this
team this year, do you think it's going to be more of a development
behind the scenes and in the G League type of situation for both of those
guys, They're gonna have to big time earn their minutes because you look at
the Hawks roster and you go like even just position by position one through five,
and you're like, where are you gonna fit? You know, there's
because there's every single position, there's a handful of guys that the Hawks are
probably comfortable with. So I mean, they're gonna have to earn it.
But I think that especially with you know, the G League being the Hawks
moved the Skyhawks down to Atlanta, their G League affiliates, so that that
team is really close now, so you can you can get the guys some
playing time there and then they can they can play up as well. And
sure, he's on a two way, so he'll do that. He'll do
that anyway. But I think that those guys the past few years, it's
funny the kind of the young guys on the team for the Hawks who maybe
would be in that role have been just playing, you know, because the
Hawks needed those guys, They needed those bodies, they needed minutes from them.
In the NBA, But I think those guys will have the ability to
develop at I think those guys will have the ability to develop at their own
pace, you know, and get minutes down in the G League if they
if need be. I do think Jalen though, I think I think Jalen
with his just I mean, he's got great size, he seems to have
good instincts. He had a great summer league, which you don't want to
overreact to summer league. Both him and Sharif Cooper had a great summer league,
but I think I definitely think Jalen. I mean, I think the
opportunity is going to present itself for both of those guys, but you know,
it's gonna be tough. They're gonna have to carve out time because there's
so many There's so many experienced guys ahead of you as well. But Jalen's
got a ton of potential. Sharif's got potential as well. So I think
I think those are both kind of, to your point, intriguing picks.
But I think I think we'll have the ability to see them at some point.
I think the prevailing sentiment, at least nationally, has been that the
Hawks can't keep all their guys long term. You've now extended Cappella, paid
Collins, You've offered Trey Young and the no brainer Max's extension, and then
Hunter, Hurter and Reddish like they're all coming up on their next deals,
and then you all will sort of have Gallo who has after this season one
Carsley guaranteed year left, and you have Bogey with two more years left after
this one. Do you are they built to make a big trade if they
want or should we expect maybe it's not this season but within the next year
and a half to there be some sort of asset consolidation here or do you
think they will look at this and if it's working with the current core,
they can say, look, the cap is going to go up even if
they're smoothing after the next TV deal, and maybe they can afford all these
guys. But when I do look at the roster and just like some of
the contracts that are coming up, but even with if Onyeka cover was healthy,
but you've already picked Capella and Collins, it does feel like this team.
Yes, the right player has to come along. The actual star market
or marquee player market needs to develop, but they do sort of low key
feel like they're built for a consolidation type of trade, even if it's not
right now, sometime down the line. Yes, I think I think that
makes sense. I think the Travish link GM Travishlank has been understandably. We've
you know, we've asked them about this a few times because it does kind
of seem like, particularly like there's some guys on the roster like Gallo,
like you have salary matching capability. The Hawks do, so I think that
they would have the ability to. But I think one thing Travis has talked
about is, you know, in today's like in today's market for like a
big star, those guys have a say in where you're going, you know,
you know, especially nowadays. And I think kind of a goal for
the Hawks is to become that free agency destination, you know, which comes
with winning. So I think they're they're definitely doing that with what they did
last season, because now you don't have this picture in your head of you
know, the Hawks story building team. The Hawks are are struggling, the
Hawks didn't make the bubble, you know, stuff like that, and now
you now you have a completely different picture of this team. So I think
I actually pulled up this story that Travis that I wrote on Travis because he
talked about this a while ago. But basically he said that last year put
us on put the Hawks on the map as far as a free agency destination
for stars who now would be open to coming to Atlanta. But the situation
two things. I mean, one thing that has to happen is like the
situation has to arise, you know, for that for that timing to happen.
And also they have to want to come to Atlanta. Oh, you
know, the kind of the stars have to the stars have to align there
for you. And then he was also asked how much of a priority it
is to get a second star next to Trey, and he basically said,
you know, you can draft and develop, go out and acquire through free
agency or trade right now, because there is no right now because we're not
a team that's gonna have space. It's got to come from internal growth.
So it might happen at some point, and they're built to be able to
handle it if the situation does arise. But I don't necessarily think that's something
that like they they're thinking, Okay, we've got to do that. This
season, Like, I think they're happy with the guys that they have and
can at least take one more season to develop and grow and see what they
turn into. You know, I don't necessarily think that this season is the
season that has to happen, but if that were, if the situation were
to arise in the future, they have some capabilities to make that happen.
You Like, I'm about to shill on behalf of the Hawks. It's funny
how narrow the scope of stardom definition has become. Because John Collins and Clink
Capella in any given year can make an All Star team in the Eastern Conference.
I get if you don't view them as second best player in championship team
material, but it's it's just funny that they have two of those caliber guys.
Or a lot of teams just look at the Mavericks, they just don't,
like, even whatever you think of Christops, they just don't have that
guy who might be a second All Star in any given year right now.
The Hawks have two of them, so there's probably shouldn't be as much of
an urgency to do anything. Yeah, and what about like another thing that
I felt like people kind of forget, which is understandable because he didn't play
much as like DeAndre Hunter was turning into you know, a potential star too,
Like they have a handful of guys who could really be in that category
that you mentioned. But I also think I also think that, I mean
clinck of Pella like led the league in rebounding, like you know, John
did what he did. I think that. I think the Hawks also until
the playoffs came along, they didn't play on national TV, like hardly at
all, So I think then some people were like, oh, wow,
clink of Hella is playing really well for the Hawks. You know, you
just didn't know that name necessarily. You just didn't know that. You didn't
know that, You didn't know that necessar Saily until maybe the playoffs because people
weren't watching them game in and game out. But they did have a lot
of guys who were playing really well next to Trey who could potentially be that,
you know, second star. It's just it's just kind of maybe people
weren't noticing as much until those playoff that playoff run. When you look at
this roster, is there a type of player, not even a name,
but that would get them to think along that route and it's probably just more
of a macro question of what do you still think is the biggest void on
this roster that they still need to reach that next level in the Eastern Conference
landscape, or just to solidify their place among the contenders or fringe contenders over
the bigger picture. I don't know if there's one big piece that I'm like,
Okay, if they could just go get this one guy. It was
more kind of the small things almost. It was more kind of situational.
It's more kind of situations where like, Okay, they can't keep struggling when
Trey goes to the bench. They have to find a way to plug this
situation. So backup point garret, which it doesn't necessarily fall into the I
know we're talking about stars and I just mentioned a backup, but that's I
think honestly, that was a big issue for them, And then also just
kind of kind of beefing up the defense a little bit because I think there
were some times when Clint had too much on his plate. Clint was phenomenal
for the Hawks and transformed the defense in so many ways, but you can't
do everything, and I think there were some times, particularly early in the
season where they were putting they were putting a lot on his plate right at
the rim, kind of as your your backstop, and not doing enough in
front of him. So, I mean, I think kind of defending.
I think beefing up the defense is one thing that comes to mind with the
Hawks in addition to back up point guard, and those aren't necessarily you know,
it's hard to say, like, Okay, do they need to get
one guy or do they just need to position the roster for those to address
those to address those things, and I think this, I think this season
will be a pretty good you know, measuring stick and indicator of that.
You know, did we do enough to make sure we can cover things when
Tray goes to the bench. Do we have enough defense? You know?
Can we can we defend you know, the point of attack? Can we
have enough in front of Clint to defend at the level we want to?
But you know, now they've got they've gotten ate from the get go,
and they've got you know, they made a few tweaks here and there,
and they're comfortable with their young guys. So I think this year will be
a really good measuring stick. Yeah, that's the I think you can make
a case either way for that team. But it does sort of and this
is the the non sexy answer. You want to get a gauge for what
they have first, just because there are so many guys that miss time and
you mentioned the point of attack defense. There's a chance now that they go
from just having three guys that they either didn't have or weren't healthy last year.
Who can do that in Delon Right and then Cam Raddish and DeAndre Hunters
were both injured and so there and they're already on the roster. So so
that's that's why it's it's sometimes it's hard to almost address like do the Hawks
need this or do the Hawks need that? And it's like, well,
can I can I get back to you, give me like a month into
the season and let me tell you because some of these guys and you didn't
really get to see So it's like they I could say they need this and
they need that, but they might already have it. We just don't necessarily,
we haven't necessarily seen it all together yet, you know, if that
makes sense, Teams, good teams will invariably look to improve the rosters own.
So even it's not a seizemic move. There's a probably a pretty hot
chance they'll do something before the trade deadline. Do you look at the rosters
of now and we haven't seen the season unfold obviously, so that makes it
difficult and see a player though that you think could be the most likely to
be traded, whether one of those younger wings, just because of the log
jam, not just on the death chart, which really is in a logjam,
but it's more so the contractual log jam that they might face, or
just someone else. Maybe it's, you know, one of the vets that
they've already paid in, a gallow or even a bogey. Maybe there there
is one. There is one thing that I think the Hawks are gonna have
to think about, which is that they've done a good job of acquiring a
lot of wings who do a lot of things that you want done. But
can you consolidate into like that one guy who does everything for you, which
you know, the guys like that are hard to come by. But I
do think that there might be the situation where we've got so many young talented
wings we can't find them all minutes. We just there's just not enough minutes
in a game, you know, And we've got so many We've got so
many wings that if we can't play them, you know, the minutes that
they need, if we don't have time for all of them, Like is
this guy a great trade chip? I do think that might happen. I
don't know who it's going to be. I mean, we have to wait
and see how the season goes, but I do think there are there might
be a situation that arises where the Hawks have so many good wings and so
many guys who are capable of contributing, but you can't find minutes for all
of those. Inevitably, one guy's kind of going to get left out a
little bit here and there, So can you then flip that guy for something
else that you need just because they do have they have so much depth there.
This was kind of something that was talked about going into last season two,
which was like how do we find minutes for all these guys? Like
how do our young guys develop when we're so kind of stacked? But then
so many guys got hurt that that didn't end up being an issue. But
you don't want that to be the case, you know, but you don't
want like so many people to be hurt that. Okay, Now there's plenty
time to go around. You know, you want everyone to be healthy,
and if that's the case, then they might have kind of the too ny
guys. You know that sometimes as us saying goes. So, I do
think that you know, they've they've they've kind of put together like an excellent
group of wings. But can you play them all? Do they all?
Are they all able to find that role? Just a couple of quick hitters
before I get you out of here. And I know this is definitely matchup
based, but what do you think ends up being their most used closing lineup
for this team if they're if they're fully healthy, of course, right Trey
and Clint obviously probably i'd probably go Trey Bogeye, DeAndre Hunter, John Collins,
Clint if they're all healthy. I mean, I guess that might change
situationally, but I think that's kind of going to be their go to of
the the young core with the the young the expanded core that's kind of your
expanded group of core players that also has a ton of it, not a
ton, but experience together. So I think that's probably a good A good
lineup for them, is there? If you're let's say you're the coach.
You could put any line up on the floor you want. Is there like
a quirky, offbeat, out of left field lineup that you think that they
should try or you think would be fun to just see them roll out?
I would like to see there's This is tough because there's so many Actually,
uh, I would like to see. Honestly, I don't know if it's
so much as a lineup as at one point I want to see. I
just want to see Jaywen Johnson play. And I'm so intrigued as to how
he's gonna go. I think i'd like to see. Can I just say
Jayalen Johnson out there? Jayalen Johnson's fine alongside either Clint or John. I'm
just so intrigued as to how he's gonna fit. So I'll say, I'll
say, and in honor of that, I'll say mine is because this team
was tough. If you put Trey at the one, Collins at the five,
and then just give me, like all the defensive Wayns who might be
able to do something on offense, and Hunter Reddish and Jalen Johnson, give
me give me that set up. They really don't have a reason to try
that unless there's mass injuries, but I would love to see that one.
Yeah. I also am intrigued, like if they could do like either.
I'm I really get really entertained when there's like a tiny lineup and then like
a gigantic lineup, you know. Jalen Johnson at the five said, Yeah,
I don't know. I'm just so intrigued at how he's gonna do at
this level. I mean, it might not happen too much this season,
but I just think his ability to pass is is going to be interesting too.
So that wasn't a very fun answer, but Jalen Johnson Gyalen Johnson at
the five is a very fun answer. It's yeah, I mean, I
mean, I want to see it. I don't know, let's just throw
it out there one day. The final question is, as we record this,
they're over under a set at forty seven point five. Do you expect
them if you had to choose, would it be the over the under for
that? And where do you sort of see them stacking up in the East
if they're healthy, I would take the over. I do think that this
team has a lot of potential if they can stay healthy, which is the
caveat that. If you've listened to this whole podcast, you've probably heard me
say the word healthy like seventy times, So I know I'm repeating myself a
lot there, But I think that I just think that's kind of going to
be this team staying But if they can stay healthy, then yeah, definitely
the over there. And I think I I think that this team. I
think that this team has a lot of potential. Sometimes in the playoffs,
you know, you don't know what's gonna happen, like, are you gonna
are you gonna stay healthy? Are you going to run into a super team?
You know, how's how's all of that gonna go? But I do
think this team has potential to get into the playoffs and make noise. Yet
again, yeah, I'm sort of peeved at how comfortable I am smashing the
over for this team. And I think last year we were talking, I
said I was worried that they might have rushed it a year or too quickly.
But then after watching what they did a mid injuries, especially when Nate
McMillan took over and in the playoffs, and you look at their roster,
now this has been going through it was an easy over for me, and
I think in the East, we can't even really get into what the pecking
would looks like. I would say the only teams I would definitively put in
front of them though, are Milwaukee and Brooklyn. And if I think some
people make the case for Miami, I'm not quite there yet. I need
to see what their offerense looks like. But they're like they have a real
shot at cracking the top four, if not even the top three. Well,
and that's the goal. I mean, obviously you're not going to go
to the conference finals every year, but that's the goal for this team,
is you know, they were the fifth seed because they were sucked by the
Knicks in the regular season and then they got to the playoffs and they crushed
the Knicks in five games. So it has an ownership stake in the Knicks
at this point. I actually think I know that. But oh, I
know, I saw he went back to MSG for with w W. Yeah
I think it was. It was one of the pro wrestling leagues. Yeah,
Oh my gosh, that was a who that was so funny. But
yeah, I mean I think so they've Schlank has kind of said that the
goal for this season is to aim to get kind of that home field home
court advantage, you know, in the playoffs. So I think that that's
a realistic goal, you know, p divided, they can stay healthy and
build on what they did last season, true deform. I kept you longer
than I said that I would. But is there anything else I didn't ask
you about that you think needs to be covered or briefly discussed about about the
Hawks? I don't. I don't think so. I think we covered pretty
much everything about the Hawks that's intriguing, from DeAndre Hunter at Cam Ruddish to
Jalen Johnson at the five. Jalen Johnson at the five. I want to
see it at some point, but no, I think we covered pretty much
everything. Can you tell our listeners where they can find your work? Maybe
some videos of Millie as well. Yes, I'm on Twitter at Sarah underscore
k Underscore Spence. I tweet mostly about Millie, sometimes about basketball, and
AJC dot com is where you'll find all my stuff. Sarah, Thank you
again so much for giving me a bunch of your time, and I think,
as you know by now, I will be pestoring you again in the
future. So thank you so much for coming on. I love to be
pestered, so it's good, but not not that man.