Welcome to soft Core History. Hello, and welcome back to Softcore History.
My name is Jake Goldman. I'll be your host for this week. I
am joined as always by my two co hosts, Rob Fox and Dan Regester.
How's it going today, boys, another day in the life fellas.
Yeah, let's fucking go. Man happily, happily, ready to go.
I just want to hear about history. Incredibly hungover. You're hungover. That's
rare for you. Now I've been on a bit of a bender. Oh
yeah, you went to the UFC fight, to the fights. I went
to a UFC fight. You saw some fights happen, quite a few,
quite a few. Were they exciting? Was it as primal as you hoped?
Yeah, there's a lot of knockouts, a lot of finishes, a
lot of submissions. Does it sound cooler in person? Like the grunts and
the more the crowd. It's not like an empty arena. It's not like
the Apex Center. Yeah, no, it's fun. I do have a
gripe. What's your grip with the Moody Center? Which I did like first
time at the Moody Center. Yeah, really nice facilities, good food options.
However, self checkout line always ask for a tip. Yeah, I
hated that. Who am I tipping? What? Yeah? My tipping this
machine? It's the thing the engineer, where's this money going? There's the
west guy and like San Luis Obispo that just gets tipped every time you go
through. That's called passive income BATA. And then you also have to pour
your beer or your selzer's into a cup at the self service line. Yeah
yeah, so I'm like a can I get some money back for serving myself?
I hate that ship. Actually, I would prefer to keep it in
the can or bottle as opposed. Well, they don't need to throw it.
Yeah, the projectiles. If I have an empty plastic cup, I
guess I can't reach. You have to likee mass, you have to shot
put throw it like you know what I mean, because it's gonna lose mass
if you throw it hard, right, and you throw like an empty plastic
cup and it goes nowhere and it's just almost mentally defeated. Yeah, exactly.
Well, what you would have to do, like a solo cup for
example, is fucking stomp it and then throw it like a Ninja star.
Right, No one's it's Yeah, it's too much work. You do that
with a can? Yeah, empty beer can? Same thing, right,
Like, yeah, you can't if you can't really throw an empty beer can
any significant playing throw full beer can? Yeah? Far though, regardless of
how you throw, can you throw a beer can a full on that's empty?
Empty? Ten? Oh my god, dude, you might need You
might throw your shoulder out getting it, the wind takes it behind you.
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. At this point in my life,
I'm like, I'm not poor, but I'm not throwing away a ten to
twenty dollars beer. I'm not paying twenty dollars to throw something at someone.
I've never been so mad. I wanted to throw a beer at that expense,
like I've never thrown, especially when it's just like if a beer's over
five dollars, I'm drinking all of it. Yeah. Everywhere we were joined
by a couple of people, so whenever you bought rounds, I was like,
oh, ship, that's like a hundred bush right there. You were
on the hook for a round. You're with people much wealthier than you,
I know, like they don't pay for anything though, God damn, fighters
don't pay for ship. Yeah, you chuck le'dell and we met up with
Chuck A Lauo. Yeah, I don't know why you paid for anything,
like a millionaire UFC fighter out a UFC event and he's like, hey,
you got this round next man. It wasn't Chuck. Yeah, Chuck's not
the one who's asking like a double Yeah. Yeah, they don't. They
don't pay fighters that well, so they don't. I feel like Chuck's made
money. Though. Chuck's made money, but he's also you know, kind
of going through things right now. It well, I think he might come
out okay in the alimony situation, all things considered. Well, you know
what, this isn't a UFC fucking podcast, all right, this is I
would no, not UFC. I was gonna say divorce, well, breaking
down alimony. This is a good time to plug the Patreon Yeah, because
uh, we haven't recorded it yet. It'll be after we do this episode,
but it comes out Wednesday, and it's actually about gladiators. So kind
of did you do mushrooms and then stay up till four am riding that episode
like you did with Oppenheimer. No, with Hannibal Hannibal episode I did,
but wasn't it after we saw Oppenheimer? Yes, yeah, I mean I
did four Oppenheimer. Yeah, it did mushrooms for Oppenheimer, but then they
just kind of kept coasting off them, like we might as well rep my
episode. Something big actually happened this week? What well? Yeah, I
mean we're kind of late on it almost. That's how fast the internet moves.
Yeah, that's okay. I feel bad. A pretty influential person died
on November twenty ninth, twenty twenty three. Alright, p Henry Kissinger.
Oh, I thought it was going to be the Irish bitch. No,
who the ninety three year old Saturday O'Connor. Oh, I think she was
Irish? Well, I mean, man, that sounds pretty Irish to me.
Irish. Yeah, I think she was born in Ireland, but I
could be wrong. Okay, Well yeah, not her kissing. I'm sure
she's full of fucking I'm sure her family he is. Mickey Murphy Potato,
Right, Mickey the potato mar You're like, oh, pati, what's that
short for? Actually potato? Weirdly potato potato Murphy potato, Yes, potto.
Yeah, No, we're talking about the kiss man kissing ger Henry Kissinger.
Hear about this guy? You hear about this guy. Apparently he's burning
in hell. A lot of people didn't like him, that media man that
was, even though I know he's done horrible things. I just oh,
some of the most horrible. I just still like, can never see a
Twitter dog pile and not be like, you know what, No, fuck
you guys. I just kind of sit it out. It's just too anytime
I see people having fun too easily, I'm like, No. A lot
of people found out who Kissinger was last week. Yeah, yeah, I
think a lot of people that also hate Kissinger would probably probably directly use his
philosophies to cite why they hate him. I think it's a common read.
Though. I think that could unite the country. I think at least right
at least twenty percent of the people not I'll say max, twenty percent of
the people dunking on Kissinger for being horrible what she was probably would do horrible
things themselves if they had the ambition or capacity to reach a level of Henry
Kissinger's status. It's true, guess true, Yeah, I mean true.
Every person that doesn't carpet bomb another country, Yeah, they don't have the
grind mentality ground. You don't get to the point where you can carpet bomb
a country unless you already know you have the capacity to carpet bomb country.
I just see a lot of that's. I just see a lot of people
like it's just like an easy moral victory for people. And I'm like,
you know what, I've seen some of your other tweets about people you don't
like politically, and I really just feel like you haven't done it because you
haven't had the opportunity like you have some you've the sense of vile things.
You just you just don't have the opportunity to exercise your vileness beyond Twitter.
Yeah. No, I mean it's true whether you believe for the best,
yes, definitely for the best, Yeah, absolutely for the best, right,
because no one should ever be able to just do what they want.
The Kissinger pretty much did. Yeah, yeah, which is pretty sick.
Honestly. Are we going through his whole life story? We're gonna go through
a lot of it, like childhood and ship. Yeah, we're gonna start
origin to all that because I have a theory after we talk about his origin.
Okay, I think I already know, Yeah you kind of, I
think you already there. But they'll like it. Yeah, you save it
for then. But yeah, whether you believe him to have been a war
criminal or cold war champion, Kissinger is a planet when it comes to influencing
global politics. Yes, he's a planet. He has an orbit, man,
like a dwarf planet. We're talking like a little rocky planet. Jupiter.
Okay, Jupiter. He's like Jupiter, a big red spot on him.
We got a big red spot. He probably did at the end.
Yeah. Yeah, when you get old yet, your skin kind of goes
south. It's it's gets loose. One time, I fourth July, my
grandpa was still alive. That was like a big Fox family celebration. And
my dad was like, Grandpa, weren't you we are my uncle's house.
He was like, he was like, Dad, weren't you swimming? And
he just goes, No, one wants to see old skin. Nobody wants
to see all those spider vans. He said that to you, He said
that just to my dad. I was like there, I was like nearby,
So that was funny. That's pretty the best way to go as an
old man is to just be out in the sun all day, because then
you're he's like a tanned rack. Yeah. I don't know, man,
have you ever seen that picture that like one hundred and two year old Native
American. Yeah, I want a baseball glove. I'd rather look like a
baseball glove than a ghost. Okay, that's with like purple spots everywhere I
heard. There was an interview with an older woman and it was like she
was basically told, at like fifty, She's like, all right, listen,
you can need to be wrinkly as hell and skinny, or you can
be fat and smooth skinned. It's like those are your options when you get
old, you need to be like wrinkly. Everyone I met in Hawaii that
was like super old looked incredibly youthful. Were they all and all they did
was hanging out in the sun? Were they white or were they native?
Okay? All the white people that lived in Hawaii that were in like their
fifties thirty five, it was insane. It could be the quality of life,
And I think it's not the sun. I think it's the general quality
of life you can afford to live there. But they're all they're eating like
fresh fish and fucking like salads and ship all the food probably good for you,
Yeah, no anyway, But still I don't think it makes you a
Brinkley. The just exposure to sun, like tense exposure. No, that's
why all the homeless people in Austin look so good. You know, they're
just exposed to the sun all day. I mean, I'm I've seen in
hot homeless people. They've got some good bods, not bad because they're essentially
intermittent. You know. I was like with not eating when I first moved
here and I saw a shirtless homeless guy, I was like, these are
not the Midwestern homeless I'm used to. No, No, nor the flirred
in Every homeless person has a sleeve tat here. How do you afford that
it's done at the camp? Yeah. In our Patreon episode, so we
ask a question a lot like for this, you know, normal episode,
we asked who's Hitler? And our Patreon we asked who's in the game.
Kissinger was the game. He wasn't just in it. He is the game.
He also more or less changed the game for you know, basically the
time period that we live in now. He's sort of like I feel like
he's like a Babe Ruth type of figure, Like the sport changed overnight.
Yeah, when Babe Ruth started to hit and Dingers. Yeah, I mean,
like not Jackie Robinson. You don't want to go there. I think
in terms of the way the game is played, Babe Ruth is absolutely more
influential than Jackie Robinson. No, I just think it's funnier if you compare
Kissing Jerda Jackie Ross, just because yeah, yeah, he was a practitioner
of real politique and the person who brought pragmatic national interest as foreign policy to
the White House. This was all done in a time where the Cold War
was really fucking tense, right after World War Two, so basically right around
the late sixties. Man, it's so funny that he just like I think
I was four in an episode, but like with World War One, where
like the Germans came off as kind of evil even though they weren't. They
weren't any more evil than any other countries world War One, but like they
were like really uh pragmatically, like just and they have like they had kind
of like harsh justice, but they're just like all the everything they did,
they just like viewed it as like pragmatism. Yeah, and that's like Kissinger's
German and they just have like a really dark sense of pragmatism. It's you
got You're on a really good trail there right now. So his realist approach
to US international relations radically shifted, not just the way we engage with the
world, but the way the world engages period. Now. This guy is
basically the architect of opportunism. He's the invisible hand. He's also got a
comic book origin story, and we're gonna get into it. We're gonna start
talking about this guy because I think he's an amazing figure. I don't I
mean one that starts there. I'm just gonna say, and we'll give the
Florida Robin. I'm pretty sure, pretty sure Magneto's origin story was based on
Henry Kissinger. Magneto might be Kissinger. I'm gonna look that up. I
did not look that up beforehand because I just wanted it to be my theory.
But like, I want to see when the Magneto character was introduced.
Uh, but yeah, I think he Kissinger's in the Holocaust. Are kind
of not No, No, he's not. He's he leaves right before the
Holocaust. Yeah, but I mean, like, I don't round the Holocaust.
I don't think Kissinger is the Holocaust adjacent. I don't think Magnetos inspired
by Kissinger. I think Magnetos inspired by that the Holocaust. Well, because
if you look at if you look at Kissinger's evolution, he takes what he
sort of like like because he gets really into American values, right, he
really does believe that America, the world is at its best when America is
in charge. Like, He's not like some frothing psychopath. He's sort of
like a German pragmatist, which means sort of like a pessimistic pragmatist, a
which is which is mistaken in my opinion, But it's sort of like he
he experienced these horrible things as a child, literally with the German, with
the Nazis and you know, affecting Jews, and then that shaped his mind
about how you know, he maybe doesn't want to see that sort of persecution
ever again. But then he becomes the monster he tries to avoid being.
It's similar to Magneto. Yeah, however can he Ben spoons Kissinger? Yes,
with his hands probably, Yeah, I mean he's not. Have you
ever seen Kissinger? Do you know what he looks like? Yeah, he's
not. He's definitely struggling with his hands to even been in the spoon older.
Yeah, for sure, for sure. Actually, he's whole life he
has. He was one hundred years old when he died. Yeah. Kissinger
was born May twenty seventh, nineteen twenty three, in Bavaria, Germany.
His childhood, he enjoyed playing soccer. He played for the youth team of
Speak Fruit, which was one of the nation's best clubs at the time.
So he was pretty athletic as a kid, you know. But in nineteen
thirty three, yeah, Adolf Hitler's election as chancellor. Oh, also,
I heard he was a bit of a poonhound. We'll get to that.
That's not right now. I imagine as a youth as well. It never
leaves you. I don't know if he's getting after it in his early youth,
because he's getting pretty late bloomer's I don't think there's a lot of time
for him to enjoy himself in Hitler's Germany, not when he's playing football.
Well, in nineteen thirty three, Hitler gets elected Chancellor of Germany, and
that's a turning point for the Kissinger family. During Nazi rule, Kissinger and
his friends were like, they're like, hey, this guy seems like bad
news. This might not be fun. Kissinger and his friend's regularly harassed and
beaten by Hitler youth gangs. They weren't allowed to go to watch soccer games
anymore, pretty much participate in anything. This Holgan shit. I think the
pope ever beat him up, probably Benedict. Yeah, Benny, what could
have happened? The various Catholic Benny doesn't follow through, that's true, but
Bavaria is like the big Catholic part of Germany, so I don't know if
Benedict's from there and on his way to beat his ass he actually is like,
I'm out, but uh yeah. So his family flees Germany in nineteen
thirty eight. Great time to get out, Yeah right, great into the
line, Yeah, and they end up when Kissinger is like around fifteen years
old in New York City, so he goes to high school. He starts
going. He has to work, you know, just to help his family
out living. He goes to high school at night, works during the day.
But after high school, Kissinger studies accounting of the City College of New
York and excels pretty well in academics. But his studies are interrupted because in
early nineteen forty three he gets drafted into the US Army and from there always
that kind of accountant. Ah, I never count twice Ben an autistic.
No wait, maybe what we talk about's a solid movie the account I've never
seen that. All Right, Ben Aflor has like a roovie that's kind of
like where Yeah, but is it the revealed that he's autistic. Well that's
pretty apparent. Yeah, but are all accountants kind of they should be.
I'm not gonna trust anybody that's not autistic. I need a hyper focus on
numbers the guy that's stemming. Yeah, just a little bit. Yeah,
no, I yeah, I really like numbers Man to make that your whole
life. Benedict was from Bavaria, but he didn't join the Hitler Youth until
three years after kissingered fled. So he joined in like forty one. Yeah,
yikes, was fourteen. I guess it's the time to do it.
Yeah, and if you don't then you get beat up by them anyway,
right, Yeah, it's not really you don't really have a choice to one.
But also like he was conscripted into it, they don't really choice.
Yeah, a lot of people in the Joejoe anyway. Yeah, he was
drafted into the US Army. He went basic training in Camp Croft and Spartanburg's,
Carolina, where he became a naturalized US citizen. He saw combat with
his division, and due to his thick Bavarian accent and ability to speak German
as his first language, he volunteered for hazardous intelligence duties during the Battle of
the Bulge. Yeah so this is a crazy thing, Like he risked his
life to fight Nazis. Yeah, so, like, well, he's drafted,
he had to, but he stepped up more than just like doing what
he you know, could do in literally the bloodiest battle in US Army history,
the worst, Like the worst is fucking awful, like ba Bult just
disgusting. It was just a huge scale and it took you know a lot
of a lot of casualties and stuff like that Frozen nightmare. Yeah yeah.
And he's running intelligence and pretending I'm sure to be German and stuff like that.
He's doing dangerous shit. Yeah yeah, yeah, but yeah. On
April tenth, nineteen forty five, he participated in the liberation of a concentration
camp that had a pretty profound impact on him, as I would imagine it
does anyone. It's so funny like liberated a concentration camp. Yeah, dude
saw literally the worst thing you could possibly see. Yeah, and it's his
own people too. Yeah hey yeah, yeah, like it's it's even more
so. And he's like, oh, Steve, I don't know if this
is one of the ones where they went berserker when they liberated it. What
do you mean there's a couple of concentration camps. We'll have to do an
episode on the side about it where like all the American troops are like,
we just killed everyone there. I remember reading about one where they damn,
dude, why did we hit the Jews so much? No, like we
killed it. It just start like we're gonna finish the job. Oh my
god. There was one though I read about where like American soldiers like obviously
like the capture the Germans who were in the concentration camp let the Jews out,
and they were just like some of the Jewish prisoners were like, we
want to kill these guys, and the Americans were like and just why watch
them? They just sat back, I assume, smoking cigarettes and we're just
like watching the former Jewish prisoners like beat Nazis to death. Wasn't Auschwitz like
freed twice that the Russians went through first, then we were last, but
we still had to like there was still like a buffer zone the amount of
time that like there was still camping going on. Yeah, still camping.
Yeah, yeah, No. There's one where I think like the Jews were
like, can you kill them? Like they were kind of looking around.
They're like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's problem. Yeah, we're happy
to do. It's the last scene from Gloria's Bastard's Like I get chewed out
for it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah. So during the
American advance into Germany, Kissinger, through though only a pot though only a
private, was put in charge of the administration of the city of Krefeld because
of a lack of German speakers on division's intelligence staff. So with an a
days he was able to establish an entire civilian administration within that city too,
so he was able to get people to turn in quick order, with people
into shape. He was then assigned to the Counterintelligence Corps or the CIC,
where he became a special agent. He holded the enlisted rank of sergeant.
He was given a team in Hannover assigned to tracking down Gestapo officers and other
saboteurs. He was very good at this as well. He was able to
sniff people out pretty easily, and he was awarded the Bronze Star. I
believe he had twelve people arrested in total and a few executed. Gestapo.
Who's like the worst or the worst? Yeah, absolutely fucking evil motherfuckers right
exactly. Yeah, yeah, he round it up a fuck ton of Gestapo.
I think he had four executed in total and twelve arrested, and June
nineteen forty five he was made commandant of the Bensheim Metro Cicee and was responsible
for denotification of the entire district. I will say a Gestopa though good Brandon,
great name for like an evil group of people. It just rolls up,
it does. It's got like a real I think it's the pup stop
stop bo. I mean there's nothing, there's not a bad syllable in that.
All angry yeah, all German, you know. I mean I feel
like you know, if you hear the letters KGB and you don't know what
the KGB is, You're like, okay, is that like a band or
something? But like is that like a software company? Yeah? Like Gestapo.
There's your mind is to me, like, I think it's that or
cold soup. Yeah, yeah, that's it. But when I think about
cold soup, I'm kind of like Gaspacho hold on. Yeah. In nineteen
forty six, Kissinger was reassigned to teach at the European Command Intelligence School at
Camp King and as a civilian employee. Following a separation from the army,
he continued to serve in this rule so he basically felt though all time in
the army, he loved it because it made him feel like he was a
real American because he got to serve his country. He fell in love with
America. Yeah, really did, was like a very I think it's so
easy to in that situation, that immigrant story. It is. Yeah,
there's no convert, like, are there no nobody? No one's more of
a patriot than that. There's in the moves here. They're literally the saying
is there's no zealot like a convert. Yeah, exactly like your your people
that convert over, it's gonna be way more into it. Yeah, a
willing convert, right, Well, yeah, you imagined forced converts or zealots
up, you know, after they put the put me to the sword.
I really believed in my mom at the sword actor like yeah, yeah,
hell yeah, yeah, we go. I'm actually I really buy it now.
I mean that's how the sword works. I'd rather I'd rather run through
a brick wall than then get my head cut off. You know that's true.
We had a Iraqi lift driver on the way to the UFC who was
awesome because he knew he was like deep into the UFC. Yeah, Mma,
knew everything, and he was like, yeah, man, I'm just
tired of all this woke shit going on in our country. Oh yeah,
brother, Oh yeah, like what we hated? Bro? What what woke
shit? In particular? That pretty much how Rob said it. I hate
the bro. I hated bro, these woke motherfuckers. What if you just
like knew his audience? You know what I mean? You fucking you're with
He's like he like looks back and he's like, Okay, I don't know
what to talk about. You're going to fight, man, I love fights.
Do you see Donald Trump at the fight? I hate on this walk?
Shit, Bro, you know fucking sucks man. I love America.
Yell, Koby's going to kick the ship out of Leon. Yeah, there's
woke motherfuckers. They could never watch you see. But then like a couple
like twee little Austin girls get in and he's like, how are you.
I'm very happy to have you, you know, very happy, and they're
like, oh my gosh, you an immigrant. Yes, it's very hard
to live here. All the white people they hurt me. They are the
words are worst. They're worse than the bombs. Interrupt. Dude, You've
done three minutes uninterrupted of this guy now, and I'm telling you it's like
dead on. Yeah, I think you're in the car. If the guy
knows. Dan's gotta be a wild card though, right, you think like
Dan Hopson, You're like all right, tank top, blonde hair, bleach
blonde. But wait, said ju jitsu was gay? What? I don't
bruh hit how woke? Gay sex is? No? I want gay sex
to be painful again. Yes, no lubricants, lubricant just woke. Yes,
dip me five stars, good, five star, five star, No
lubricants. Oh pardon me. I'm also uh for everyone at home. I
am seven days nicotine free. What why he need? Got sick? But
you have a vape right there? That's pot all right? Sweet? Oh
sure that's all I got I'm only allowed to vape, pot are you?
Are you sure not sick because you're not getting enough nicotine? Yeah, I
got sick. And then I just was, well, you know, when
you get sick, you're like I don't really want to smoke or hit this
vape or whatever, like because my lungs hurt, so just stop. And
it's like, well why why not just stop? You know, and now
I'm gonna be sick forever. Yeah, it's gonna be cool. Yeah,
like if I stop drinking. At this point, I was reading though,
actually, uh, like vapes, not cigarettes. Vapes like people that use
those regularly have like twice the susceptibility to anxiety and depression. Good, but
not cigarettes, which which makes sense and I agree with that wall. Why
does it make sense because cigarettes are dope? Yeah sure, yes, no,
that's because cigarettes are good for you. Yeah. But also everybody that's
coming up in this generation that vapes is told they have aggression or anxiety problem.
That's probably you know, but also no, I think it's something to
do. Just singer. I'm gonna just inside hit my little tobacco pen.
Yeah yeah, there's no and then me blow it down my shirt. Cinna
and sees I don't want to make anyone upset. Actually, honestly, a
reason that it might cause anxiety is because like or more anxiety or whatever is
because like it's you can have it whenever you want, that's right, And
when you can't have it whenever you want, it freaks you the fuck out
right. Whereas a cigarette you do have to go outside. You have to
go outside. Yeah, you have to go outside and smoke it, yep,
or be somewhere where you can smoke it. And jake not to make
you feel more anxious, but anytime you suffer anxiety, it makes me hate
you. Actually makes me want to be more anxious. I know, getting
a ridic it's actually really weirdly calming me to know that my anxiety pisses him
off. Yeah, but I'm soothing you. I'm healing you. I don't
like it, but yeah, it's working. You're welcome. Did you just
fix me? I think I did? Damn I just fixed this country.
Well anyway, after the war here and his Bachelor of Arts and Political Science
represent great degree. Everyone should get one of those degrees. They're really Yeah,
just I got a dust off that old lap coat one day and get
back in your but uh yeah. He graduated from Harvard College in nineteen fifty.
His senior undergraduate thesis was titled The Meaning of History, Reflections on Spangler,
Toynbe, and Kant, was over four hundred pages long for a senior
undergrad thesis. He wrote a book, and he was the origin of the
current limit on length at Harvard a thesis that is supposed to be like how
long. Typically, I don't think for an undergrad thesis, you're writing a
four hundred page paper. Yeah, it's like I've read thesises and shit like
that for this show, because sometimes there are not a lot of good sources
beyond some fucking nerd college kid who wrote about it. It's funny that Henry
kissing you. I don't know if that's like says something about him and who
he thinks he is and has always thought he was, or if he's just
like, I don't know, overachiever, my just being like the meaning of
history, well my borderline the meaning of life? Yeah, I mean it's
pretty much the largest swath of a topic you can pick for an undergrad a
thesis. That's why it was four hundred pages long, probably, but also
like my note here is nerd. Yeah, you made Harvard Institute a limit
on how long undergraduate thesis could be. Right, that's silly. Well,
honestly I respect him. Maybe he's maybe he realized that it didn't have to
be good, he just needed a volume. Shoot, he's like, I'm
covering it all. Maybe right, tell me I'm wrong. It's harder to
write last it is to be succinct. Brevity is the soul of wit.
That's you know, they could have made that. What is it? Why
do why use many word when few word do? Trick? Yeah? Yeah?
Is that like new age Mark Twain? Yeah? Uh. But it
was his doctoral dissertation titled Peace, Legitis, Legitimacy, and Equilibrium that set
the stage for al Kissinger would influence global politics than most. It's a study
on the history of power play between European states in the nineteenth century. So
pretty interesting topic already. Uh. In it, he first introduced the concept
of legitimacy, which he defined as legitimacy here should not be confused with justice.
Legitimacy does not justice. It means no more than an international agreement about
the nature of workable arrangements and about the permissible aims and methods of foreign policy.
That should all just be spoken in a German accent, because that is
the most German thing I've ever heard. Do you know, do you want
to take a stab at what he's saying, because I have a little breakdown
of what he's trying to get at there. Say it again, real quick,
it's quickly quickly just doing Legitimacy is used here, should not be confused
with justice. It means no more than an international agreement about the nature of
workable arrangements and about the permissible aims and methods of foreign policy. Yeah,
he's just trying to cut deals. It sounds like you just got to do
what you gotta do to keep things going. Yes, exactly, just saying
stuff. He's a podcaster. He kind of kind like word vomit until But
no, it actually is really important what he's saying. It's power dynamics exist,
whether or not they are just if all powers agree something is so,
then it is. As long as the decision makers in the major states we're
willing to accept an international order, then the order is legitimate. Questions of
public opinion and morality could be dismissed as irrelevant if everyone agrees the action is
legitimate. It doesn't matter what morality is or what opinion is. And this
gets even a little deeper, which is it doesn't matter what your ideology is.
If we can all agree, it's really you got to think about the
way countries are interacting with each other. A lot of the time are like,
all right, well, I'd really like to work with them to get
this done, but our ideologies don't match, so we're not going to interact.
That is a huge barrier to global peace over like, hey, we
all want to kind of get certain things done, right, But then proceeded
to take a giant chunk of his career and battle communism, Well, communists
who wouldn't work with him kind of if you think think about it, is
he fighting Communism or is he just hooking up Russia? Or is he just
fighting for America. There's a difference. There's a big difference in that.
But anyway, ultimately, that kind of legitimacy, that thesis that serves as
the foundation for Kissinger's version of real politique policies. According to him, his
role as a statesman, and the role of a statesman in general, is
to recognize the real relationship of forces and to make this knowledge serve his ends.
Is not about everyone getting along, It's not about any oh. He
just wants to read the terrain and get the best get the best landing spot
he can for the United States. Serving your ends is the key piece of
that quote. As a statesman, your goal is to promote your country's self
interest, bar none, even over ideology, no matter what, like if
it doesn't matter if you have to sell your soul to get it. The
end result needs to be net positive for your kid and justifies it means exactly.
That is real politique. Yeah, And it's understanding who's at the table,
what they want, and how you can make that work in the most
peaceful way possible and in a pragmatic way without letting your ideologies get in the
way of it. So one thing I think with Kissinger certainly, and probably
with a lot of people, I like to consider myself pretty pragmatic, like
support her of like pragmatic solutions to things domestically and globally. But a lot
of people just in general, you know what I mean, Like the same
way people conflate pessimism with realism. Yeah, people conflate pragmatism pessimism with pragmatism.
Oh, they're very different, I know. But people or people people
think that pragmatism maybe has to lean pessimistically, you know what I mean.
It has a negative connotation, right, say, only because it's not like
perfect. I guess, well, yeah, I think. Well when we
talk about people that probably have no idea anything about Kissinger that are saying like,
oh, man, fuck him, I hope you rots in hell,
which there are a lot of great reasons to say that about Henry Kissinger,
there are thousands of them, But to say it about his policies, it's
like, well, you gotta understand what the world was like right after World
War Two too. It's like you have a bunch of just emerging superpowers in
the world. Basically, you have very prominent ones, and there's a lot
of chaos and flux in the way different countries are interacting with each other.
You don't really have time to like, it would feel really good if they
were pro democracy. These people we need help from, but I don't really
give a shit. We need to make sure we're looking out for our shit,
right. That's how things operate that and that's how we've operated up until
probably the last twenty years ten. Well, he actually was not a fan
of invading Iranq or Afghanistan. No, he wasn't, because it's a stupid
thing to do. Yeah, he's quoted saying that basically the big dumb realization
that no one had was that even if you hold Afghanistan, you only hold
it as soon as you leave, it's just going to be a bunch of
regional factions fighting for Well, if he was so pragmatic too, he probably
realized that Suddam Hussein, no matter how terrible he was, had control of
that region, and like, shit wasn't popping off, right, Yeah,
Like he at least, you know, disagree with him all you want.
He is at least a constant Yeah, and the variables. That's kind of
the problem in the Middle East right now, is because like there's just so
much random kids still unsettled. We're still trying to figure out a new order
power vacuum, right, And like he well, that's what Kissinger cracks me
up about this, because specifically about Afghanistan, he was like, no matter
what, if someone comes in there and takes it over, as soon as
they leave, it just goes back to the normal shit. Their status quo
is a bunch of people fighting, yeah, internally over this space. Yeah,
so oh wait, you came in and you hold it. It's probably
not even right to think about Afghanistan as Afghanistan. No, it's it's not,
it's hardly that. It's really it's a place that no one can hold,
right. Yeah, but as you know, a national government of some
sort. Yeah, no, it's like they are the red storm. And
if Jupiter is the Middle East, like they're the red storm. It's like
it's constantly in flux and crazy. But it's I know, it's the red
storm. You know, that's Afghanistan. But yeah. Kissinger's approach was so
radical to foreign policy because it was not dictated by a fixed set of rules,
but instead it's goal oriented. So real politic is ordered towards the most
practical means of securing national interests, and it often deals compromising on ideological principles.
It's the most important thing. Like for example, during the Cold War,
the US often supported authoritarian regimes that were humans rights violators to secure theoretically
greater national interest or regional stability. There was a funny thing I read about
that once. It was just like a general saying I think in the state
department or something during that time period where they're basically like I mean, because
look like we in a lot of those like Central and South American situations,
like our guy was a piece of shit. Yeah, but the other guy
was also a piece of shit. They're all pieces of shit like it wasn't
you know what I mean? Like the other side of the coin is like
chaykavera. Sure, I mean, but so that's saying was he's the son
of a bitch, but he's our son of Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Like it's I think it's hard to look past the nation building sentiment of a
lot of the Central and South American stuff, Like I mean, we kind
of put Pinochet and power in Chile and that's a nightmare, like over democratically
elected person. Yeah, but the demically democratically elected person is you know,
a Marxist and that could be a beach front for the Soviets. Right,
So what's our ideology here, Well, in real politique, it's you know,
okay, yeah, maybe great that we're champions of democracy, but we're
also America and we give a fuck about American interest more that we care about
our relagi. Yeah, so we're gonna take out that Marxist because he could
help out Russia. He's indirect opposition of us. Fuck communism, that's just
red or blue, like they want to overpower us. We're America. We
need to act in self interest. Fuck democracy for this matter. And also
that was a little bit of a Monroe doctrine in there as well. Oh
yeah, it's totally. It's part of that. I think it's interesting too,
where it's like a lot of his thesis comes from, like you talked
about it earlier though, like Hitler youth beating him up. Yeah, and
it's like he's like I think a very famous quote about Hitler's Germany comes from
Kissinger. It's like it was an incredibly ordered system. They were very orderly
country. They just weren't just ye. But again, that's a difference between
like having a lot of order and having a lot of justice is where we
are trying to spend. So Kissinger's uncle Ben with great power from the great
responsibility. I guess maybe then he's just like responsible. He's like America or
or the police pretty much. I mean, it's like all of it's for
America at the end of the day, probably for him too. Yeah,
because he's because he's American, right, But I mean, yeah, he's
an opportunist as well. I'd say, was he involved in Iran and Iran
ran contre or the Iran Iraq war? Dude, He's involved in everything.
Yeah, even he was out of office after Ford, Like once Carter got
into office, he was gone. Anything that happened under Nixon, Ford or
Reagan was Kissinger was involved and Bush one actually a Bush one and Clinton and
Obama and Biden. I don't think he has anything to do with Trump,
but Hillary would have been using real for sure. Well Hillary would have been
using Kissinger directly as council as well. Really yeah, absolutely, dude,
Like she she is a huge fan of Henry Kissinger. This this guy is
beyond. That was the funniest part about when week when Trump came plemoney or
whatever, people were like, oh, world work. I was like,
dude, Hillary Clinton wand done that shit? Oh absolutely anyone that like so
many presidents, Clinton loves bombit ship. Yeah, wasn't there in the interview
where she's like, we got that bitch about Solomony? Yeah? Yeah,
probably she was the one. If you remember when killing Bin Laden, she
was just like nuke the side from orbit, Like like Hillary's kind of sick.
Sometimes you forget that, Like like she was like, vomit. Just
she's kind of a gangster. Yeah, she was like it just the worst
ways. But yeah no, but like that's that mentality of fuck it lighted
up. That is real politique, that is. But she didn't even want
to send Seals in. She was like, fuck it, We'll just tell
him he was there because it's him, we know it's or we're pretty sure
it's him. Just light it up from the sky. Biden was like,
don't send anyone in or vomit blah blah blah uh. And then Obama kind
of I guess split the difference between his two highest ranking Yeah, I guess
he was like, we're going to do a heist. Yeah, We're going
to do a siege. But yeah, so kissing Ernes stuff, some good
drowne foot, the good drum stuff. Kissinger became a foreign policy advisor,
though because he wanted to have greater influence on US foreign policy, he joined
the presidential campaign of Nelson Rockefeller, supporting his bids for the Republican nomination in
sixty sixty four and sixty eight During the Republican primaries and sixty eight, Kissinger
served as foreign policy advisor to Rockefeller, and in July nineteen sixty eight,
he called Nixon the most dangerous of all men running to have as president.
That's funny. Yeah, but this shows you how much of an opportunity is
because did he mean it? Did he mean it? No, he's campaigning,
bro Because after Nixon became president in January nineteen sixty nine, Kissinger was
appointed as National Security Advisor. Yeah. Like, it's fucking I can't even
I hate campaigns. Yeah, it's like, you know, Ted Cruz.
One week, Trump conn his wife and dog. The next week he's picking
up phones for Trump. Dude. Yeah, that's the saddest thing I've ever
seen with the boys. Can just not don't help him, you can just
like it's just you just not how do you? Is there anyone cool in
politics? Everyone just feel like just to get into that profession. George Santos
is gone, so it's over. Yeah, no, I promise you.
In like a year, Nathan Fielder is gonna be like, oh, check
out my new show that we did, and it's him and George Santos,
Like long con it's the funniest thing that's ever happened in politics to me.
The guy was just like, you know what, I'm gonna just keep lying
until they want to go out, and he got so far. Like he
he became a policy maker just by lying about everything. Incredible. I was
funny. A bunch of people online were like, I guess it's like a
meme that's just like, be gay, do crime, and they're like,
Oh, all of a sudden, because it's a Republican I'm not supposed to
be gay and do crime anymore. Pretty funny. Did you see the diva
down shirt I sent you? Yeah, gone but not forgotten. Yeah,
it's so good. Uh but yeah. He was one of the most important
theorists about foreign policy ever to be produced by the United States of America.
Who could be more important? Yeah? Well, you know, just a
year later he was expanding the footprint of the Vietnam War into Southeast Asia at
large with uh, you know, secret carpet bombing campaigns of Cambodia. How
do you secretly carpet bomb or something? You just do it? No,
you say you're flying in you say you're in Vietnam when you're bombing and you're
bombing in Cambodia. Yeah, well, and I don't know. It's all
a jungle, you know, they don't. You don't see the lines from
the sky. You don't. That's you know, that's that's kind of it,
right, Like, oh is that what I said? I mean you
didn't see that. But like, which is funny because that excuse doesn't fly
anymore because you can't know. Yeah, with the computers, they yeah,
yeah, it would be funny if they drove just chalk so you know,
kind of smudge. Yeah, that's true. If it rains, and it
rains a lot, it rains a lot. Aaron in the jungles No,
but I mean, of course everyone knows he carpet bombed Cambodia because everyone just
throws out that Anthony Bourdin quote. I was about to say, yes.
TV chef Anthony Boardaine famously wrote, once you've been to Cambodia, you'll never
stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. Yeah.
Well, Kissinger outlived him. Suck it, Kissing. You outlived a lot
of people. He outlived several contemporaries just this week. Yeah, didn't he
beat Rosslyn Carter and Rock and Carter died first. I think Russelling Carter might
have died for it. It was Carter died first. Carter died first.
Great, okay, but Santad O'Connor died after. Jimmy outlives them all.
Yeah, Jimmy' immortal. He's a peanut farmer. Jimmy's gonna outlive us.
Jimmy was the one term president. Correct, Yes, yeah, one term
presidents don't have that much stress to deal with, right, except for I
mean, didn't do great, But I feel it wasn't a bad guy.
I feel like he gets a lot of unnecessary hate. It doesn't need to
be hated. Look, I tried his best. All I know is he
legalized micro brewing. That's pretty chill. He also saw some alien shit.
He definitely saw some alien and I also feel like the hostage situation, they
kind of like waited for breaking to get an office, Yes, to get
a dub. Yes, So Jimmy, Jimmy was kind of the scapegoat for
that. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But basically he gave the message to
shoot anything in Cambodia that flies or moves. The showing of that region would
destabilize it enough to pave the way for Polepot, one of the worst genocides
of the twentieth century. Yes, now, not necessarily in Kissinger's defense,
but the the North, I want to hear it. Yeah, I want
to say the North Vietnamese and Vietnong were moving through camp, moving shit through
Cambodia. Yes they were. They were absolutely breaking the rules of war whatever
and war crime. They're committing war crimes by using Cambodia and Laos to move
And that's why we bombed it, right or less, Like he wasn't just
like, hey, while we're at it, fuck Cambodia, right, No,
that's what people think. It's funny, like they think it's like,
oh, you know, it's all jungle, right, like bomb at all,
fuck them, like we just like the Vietcong. And it was done
to try to like there was there was a there was a pragmatic reason for
it. Yes, there was a reason. This dude is a piece of
ship, but he doesn't do things erroneously. It wasn't what I mean,
it wasn't because he was like fuck Cambodia in particular today, because they were
moving supply lines through there. At least they believe they were. I think
they were they fucking were Absolutely, there was just like a really bad storm
that was brewing up in that jungle, so he just nuked it, you
know, just like Trump wined this bomb hurricane. It's funny you mentioned that,
because he was a big proponent of using tactical nukes early to just end
wars immediately. He's like, which is very pragmatic, too pragmatic. It's
a little too pragmatic. I mean that's but that was never gonna fly.
Uh yeah, no, because I mean someone MacArthur had already argued to try
to do that. In the Korean War. He tried to get Truman to
essentially nuke the border between North Korea and China so I couldn't send troops,
so not even didn't even want to. I mean, people would have died,
I assumed. But he wasn't trying to nuke populations even He just wanted
to radiate the borders parallel. Yeah, right, right right. And Truman,
who fortunately, even though he had that hilarious scene in Oppenheimer and when
he did this in real life where he's like, what you said, are
you shit, I'm the one that made the call. You just made the
stupid bomb, Like but he Truman was actually like pretty pissed or like Truman
was eventually like, I can't We're not dropping another one. Like in World
War Two. He was like that's enough, civilians, like, that's we're
not doing it again. And then I think it did still weigh on him
a little, like he knew he had to do it, but he was
still like, I'm not gonna just toss these fuckers around. Yeah, come
on. Yeah. And so when MacArthur, who, by the way,
was like during the Korean War, like imagine like you already a Hall of
Famer is active on your team, He's like, but Caarthur for the Americans
in the Korean Wars, like Lebron on the Lakers, right, it's like
a living legend, you know, he's a Hall of Famer. Well you
did get fired, so yeah, and so it's like, but that's a
big guy to say no to h and Truman said no to and fired him.
Yeah, that'd be like the Lakers being like, man, it's not
where, this isn't worth it, Lebron, get the fuck out. They'll
get to that point it's worth it. They will should, Yeah, he
obviously, you know. Okay, So Cambodia the awful, right, that's
terrible, but not without his own reasons. There are reasons he did that.
Also, he would facilitate the meeting of Nixon and Mause Dong in seventy
two, which opened diplomatic relations between China and the US, essentially boxing Russia
out of strong arming or a strong like outing in the East. Really like,
we boxed Russia out of a China Russia relationship and kind of then pitted
China and Russia against each Yeah, which was perfect? How perfect? In
the Cold War? Quite a bit? Yeah, I mean because oh wait,
hear me out. Has Kissinger actually saved more lives with the amount of
medicine we get from China and forget those we don't even go that far.
Has Kissinger saved lives by preventing a Great Powers war Russia China teaming up against
the US against NATO world, Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's hard
to prove a negative, you can't. But he opened those relations with China.
We obviously open trade with them, go back and forth. I think
we get like ninety five percent of our medication from China. Well, the
talk to like for instance, again a perfect example of real Poltique. It's
like, we ideologically do not agree with China. I get all. Yeah,
no, we for a very long time before this, we didn't even
talk to him nicer when they come, Yeah, clean up the streets to
San Francisco. But uh, you know, we put all that shit aside
so that Russia wouldn't have a very strong strategic ally in the East. I
think China I read. I forget who the quote was. It might have
been from Mao or maybe the guy right after Mao, but it was essentially
like they we're talking about from their end, weighing who to kind of lean
towards more of the Soviets for the US, and they were just like they
just looked at the world and they were like, everyone who's more chill with
America has more money, yeah, and gets richer, and everyone who sides
with the Soviets has been a gray everyone who's everyone who sides with the Soviets
country ends in stan right and don't colorless prison. Yeah, like they like
very clearly like saw they were like, hmm, everyone doing business with the
United States, more money and resources flows into their country and they get more
power, so they just play both sides. Yeah, there's also a real
politique with like baby warm, I already hate it. There's a realist way
of how we won the Cold War as well, which is, you know,
we can just let our culture win, which it did easily did.
Yeah, it's like, hey, who wants do we all want cold war
ship from Russia? Oh? Man, we want McDonald's, or you want
one of the fucking despot The only thing you couldn't get was like, oh,
we can't get really good caviar. Oh no, everyone loves caviar.
Yeah, right, versus like that. People are just like blue jeens.
That is still, by the way, when people get worried about China or
whatever, that's still America's biggest weapons, bigger than all of our nukes combined.
Oh our culture absolutely, yeah yeah, what in China is popular anywhere
in the world. So NBA is more popular in China than a Chinese thing
is popular anywhere on top. All right, tiktoks fair, tiktoks fair.
Kind of influencing the culture at this point, real quick, before we keep
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won a share of the Nobel Prize for Negotiatings for negotiating the ceasefire in Vietnam
in seventy three, which is insane. His Northern Vietnamese counterpart, who also
won that, Leducto, refused the award. That's funny because they were like,
we started it. Yeah, what do you mean do you mean we're
giving me this? Laeductoe is like, I'm not accepting that, and arap
No Kissinger accepted it. He's like, yeah, hell yeah, he's stacking
trophies. It is widely considered the most controversial Nobel Prize ever awarded. That
can't be right. There's definitely worse. I'll just look up a list real
quick. There's also the one that Obama got for no reason. Did the
refused one, had the refuse one, But he did win one. I
believe he did so. Yeah, but I don't think it was controversial at
the time, like this was controversial at the time it was given. I
mean, I don't know who would you rather have? Hitler Kissinger. Oh
man, there's some well some gnarly well you know Noble. Noble is the
inventor of dynamite. Yeah, yeah, and so there's so I'm just a
lot of railroads are built with that dynamite. Yeah, I probably save lives.
He's kind of a boner. I'm looking at the most controversial ones.
The first one on the list is Obama, and that's more so because he
got in O nine and hadn't done fucking anything it. Yeah, him getting
elected was the thing, right, This one is pretty egregious. Yassir era
fat oh Yasir Arafat is pretty rough, I believe. I don't know if
it was controversial or not. But the anwar Sadat and god who else wanted
two people? I get why an want it. But yeah, there's some
controversial ones. This is a funny one. The guy who invented the lobotomy,
he won it. Yeah, that dude. We could do a whole
thing on transorbital lobotomies. Actually we should. Oh it's yeah, it's insane.
The guy who invented ammonia basically got it, which he was. It's
helpful for fertilizer and shit, but it was also very useful World War One
four gases. You see, there's any other ones that are like interesting,
but yeah, that Arafat and and the lobotomy person is really fucking funny.
Yeah, that is crazy. I'm gonna go through some just highlights real quick
of Kissinger's career. So later, in September of seventy three, after the
Vietnam War ended, this is all. In seventy three, he wins a
Nobel Prize for the Ceasfire negotiations in Vietnam, and they pull out Vietnam.
The last soldier in Vietnam is in seventy three. Wait, can we point
out in nineteen forty eight, no one one, no one won it.
Nobody won nineteen forty eight. Huh. Gandhi was there and they're like,
nah, prove something, prove something, Gandhi. No, I just like
I love that. Though there's a year without a Nobel Peace Prize. Fuck
it, Nah, nobody's worthy. That's good. No best picture this year,
Academy, they should do that. The year is to shape a water
one. It should be nothing. Just you know what, No, we're
good. Y'all sucked this year. It was a terrible year. And I
hated that movie time, I were like Times Person of the Year two,
same thing. Yeah, No, one like Greta Tunebar should never win.
No, she should not be the Time Person of the Year. No,
you should. There should be like minimum requirements there. But yeah, So
later in September seventy three, Kissinger would support a brutal coup in Chile that
would allow for the dictator Pinochet to take power and maintain a decades long regime
of oppression and torture. Uh. This was of course in order to avoid
Soviet development in South America that I mentioned earlier. But just a month later
he would also facilitate piece between Israel and Egypt. So that's also you know,
he had a lot of pluses too. It's pretty good stuff. This
is all again because he just wanted American interests in those places to be taken
care of. Basically, if you want to do a deep dive into every
position of Kissinger, you can ask this one question. Does it help the
US long game? Right? Yes, he's for it. Does it go
against everything we are ideologically connected to, doesn't matter. We're doing it live,
because that doesn't mean shit when you're in control. Are He's just giving
the fucking Christian Bale speech at the end of Vice. Yes, Now,
your Kissinger is the Christian the speech of the device. It is. And
by the way, I love that speech. Yeah, and he's just dick
on steroids, and I kind of agree with it to a large extent.
For better. Henry Kissinger is what a lot of people think about America.
It is like the most he's like the most American person ever. His decisions
will fucking awful of a lot of chances, and they did leave the world
kind of destitute in certain spots. He's also largely responsible for the period of
peace that most people living in a superpower region experienced at the turn of the
century. Now, anyone, you're welcome, anyone who has lived, anyone
born after World War two, essentially anyone born from nineteen forty six on.
And I know there are you know, boomers and stuff are like under the
threat of nukes all the time and stuff like that. And that's certainly not
nothing, even though I'm sure a lot of people will blow it off.
Meanwhile, acting like live I live in late stage capitalism. It's so tough
and like these kids are like, get under your desk, Jimmy, we
have to practice in case you're incinerated by people halfway across the world. Yeah,
like, I think that's harder than late stage capitalism, whatever the fuck
that means. But I don't know, suck my dick. These people don't
understand how this is like the poctural mono like it there, this is not
historically normal. No, no, no, you have this much peace between
great powers. Well, the people that fucking hate him for Cambodia and like
hate him for his policies and stuff also are like, man, wasn't it
great in the nineties. It's like, yeah, because of this guy pretty
much like we're not here to we're not standing in we're not defecting dick riding
them. But here the people like people are like, man, it was
so much better, Like everything was cooler in the nineties. It's like yeah
in America, right, like it wasn't like sick and fucking like Laus or
like, but here's the thing of Levanka to go back to this. So
we've talked about this before and I didn't get this is my theory. I've
read other people who have said it, but like, essentially, like there's
a I think of extremely legitimate theory that nuclear weapons have saved lives, Yeah,
because without nukes, that threat of nukes, there's nothing stopping Russia and
the US and China and NATO and whatever, the big meat grinder, you're
fucking thrown thrown hands. Yeah, just fucking going back at it. And
at the same time, like Kissinger is part of that a huge, mongous
part of that system that kept great powers from fighting each other directly. And
I obviously he killed millions in Campodia and Laos, Vietnam, et cetera,
Chile, whatever, But like again, it's impossible to prove a negative.
And also when you're in that position, almost in government, your hands are
gonna get dirty, You're gonna have blood on like there's no other options.
We're talking about nation building, yeah, right now, and we're talking about
it not as a oh, you shouldn't do that because you're not there,
Like it has nothing to do with what you ideologically should or shouldn't do.
And a lot of people get really frustrated by even that concept of operating from
a foreign policy angle, But when you think about it from he's acting the
self interest to the country he represents, it kind of makes it really understandable
and easy to figure out pretty quickly, and it's like, yeah, okay,
nation building, why would you build to create stability in regions where you
have interest. It's not that hard to get from A to B to C.
And also it's funny like he holds it. I don't. I don't
think this is the way you should go about things. But he basically holds
the idea. They not incorrect, it's a little incorrect. It's sort of
like bastardizing things. But like essentially it's like, if your country is the
most powerful country on earth, as long as you can maintain the importance of
your ideology within the borders and then within the culture, then it does then
it doesn't matter what you do to keep your outside of your country, to
keep that country number one, Yeah, because then even if it goes against
your ideology, right right, Also keep the conflicts out of our country,
right right, that's the fight, the battles and the wars away from it.
I mean that that predates Kissinger certainly, Like we haven't had a war
on our soil really, I mean, like the Japanese iuch to ask a
little bit, but uh, and obviously Pearl Harbor, but we haven't had
a war in the contiguous United States since eighteen sixty five. That's fucking insane.
It's a long time not even bombed, you know what I mean.
Like England hasn't been successfully invaded since ten sixty six, but the Nazis bombed
the fucking Christ out of them. Yeah. Do you think the blitz Greek
parties were fun? I honestly think there were probably, you know, like
a like in the fraternity, like a hurricane party in Florida. Yeah.
Yeah, you're just down in your little shelter, just getting sucked up.
I kind of think some people had a pretty good sort of apocalyptic end of
the world time. I'd got a party, I'm guarantee you some people are
having fun. Yeah, at a party, I'd go to get a couple
of drinks in. You it's like, hey, get the more if you're
all you wanted to ask Yal she's there. Yeah, I don't know if
you're gonna live to see the morning. We got a bunch of morphine.
We got a bunch of cigarette and six gin. Yea. I maybe some
boner pills want to go to that. I don't think they needed them.
I don't think they had him yet. There's definitely like some goat weed or
something. Yeah. Card. Yeah, anyway, all that to be said
some radish juice. Speaking of getting your dick card, I'd be remiss not
to mention that Kissinger was apparently quite a playboy as well. That's gout,
that's gut, he's fucking. Uh does Kissinger fuck? Kissinger fucks? I
don't think he fucks. He. I think he got like the luckiest straw
in the world of just getting some weird free press. But he was into
dating. He was just into dating in the seventies, which is the boyfriend
experience. So he was dubbed the Playboy of the West Wing by Women's Daily
Wear in nineteen seventy one. Uh. The list of women he had dated
includes names like Diane Sawyer, which is I want to know what date means,
because it means go on a date that I think it just means going
up the fuck out he just wanted. I think it was an arm candy
thing. Honestly, Well, I mean what constitutes a date? Right?
You have all these girls that'll go out with like a celebrity once or twice,
and like we dated, we dead at Yeah, he kissed me on
my at that time, we did. We just kissed. He was at
a gentleman. Yeah, the first American back you, I don't think they.
I don't think he fucked anybody, but like they make it sound like
he does, like he gets around. But why are you trying to say
Kissinger ain't throwing meat Hi around. I would read the WAPO. I would
read the WAPO call him about it because it's like, I don't think he
did. But saying out loud sounds like a slur. Why, like a
Polish slur. Yeah, dumb wapo fucking I mean wap is Italian, but
yeah, freaking wapoo does sound like a slur. Sounds exactly like a slur.
Anyway. Yeah, the first American bond woman, ChIL Saint John was
a person that he went on a couple of dates with. He set off
her alarm at night when they were at her house. So I don't know
that was like apparently it was like, oh why was he there late?
All right? Because it was a big cocktail party scene. Though. Also,
do you think Diane Sawyer got some shit for that journalistic integrity? No?
I don't think. So this was the young journalist, well she was
also she was working as a White House aid at the time, this is
before a journalist's career, and then he was also he went on a couple
of days with Jajaca Bore of all people, but Nixon actually kind of set
him up with Jaja and he sat her next to him at this like White
House dinner, and she was interviewed about it later. She was apparently turned
on by his big brain. But when driving her home and going in for
a kiss, Nixon beat him that same night and told him he had to
get to the back to San Clemente immediately. Nixon had a kind of like
Trumble was the first person to have a house that he went to instead of
the White House like a lot. Yeah, Nixon did that all the time
and st clement looking Bush people like the ranch all over him for his ranch.
I I tweeted that the other day when someone like there was like a
Guardian article or something that was like Biden on vacation again, Like dude,
I don't fucking care. I didn't care when Trump was golfing twenty four to
seven. I didn't care when Obama was golfing twenty four seven. Let him
work remote. I didn't care when Bush was clearing brush on his fucking ranch.
Like, God damn, this is the worst war. Honestly. With
Trump playing golf especially, it's like that's probably when he's the most reasonable and
happiest, Like, let him golf, have him make all decisions on the
golf course. Can you let like all the world leaders meet him there?
Yeahh like can we just do that? Honestly, I think he gets pent
up and angry in the White House, yeah, because he doesn't want to
be there. That's all the world needs is one giant charity golf tournament.
I don't want the world leaders together talk shop. Fuck this un nonsense round
of eighteen. I don't even I'm not good at golf. I don't even
necessarily like golf, and I'm always happy on a golf course. Yeah,
nobody wants to be in a giant auditorium, No fucking bad vibes there.
Who wants to go to a conference? Go outdoors, get some drinks in
you, yeah, breath of fresh air, some uh handshake deals. Yeah.
On eighteen, Hell would say, hey, man, we're all kind
of buzz. Let's just like call that whole war thing. Huh yeah,
yeah, he's farm but we need this all right, take it, it's
fine, Like, all right, you buried those last hole, you got
a deal, you got the black seat hit. But yeah, yeah.
Uh. He was friends with Hugh Hefner and even showed up to a Playboy
party carrying an envelope of classified info. Why are you? Why are you
shipping on this? Dude? He's a playboy, he's friends with you.
It sounds like he did. Okay, he told everyone the classified material was
his copy of Playboy, but it was actually Nixon's silent Majority speech. So
he's just walking around a Playboy party with the silent majority speech. Just kissinger
head a hog. Yeah. I think he was throwing it around. I
think anyone. Yeah, I think he did. In order to make those
kind of decisions, you gotta have that. I don't at least have.
He's worried about the size of his dick, probably eight inch, you know
I don't. All right, Well, didn't even have to actually be big.
He was married twice. He was married twice to anybody notable, not
really around people, socialites, things like that. How do you become a
socialite? You have money. I would like that. You have money,
you don't work. It's fun, Yeah, yeah, it sounds awesome.
Yeah, you have family money and you don't work. You socialize, you
donate, and you hold dinners and bank Let's be a good hang. Yeah.
Kissinger acknowledge he liked the attention that went with being Washington's greatest swinger.
This was a term he got from a Washington Post calumnist. He wasn't swinging
well. Swinger in the seventies means serial dater. Okay, so someone that
doesn't like settle down. He just dates a lot. But he confirmed his
dating appetite to Time magazine in nineteen seventy two. He said, I go
out with actresses because I'm not very apt to marry one, which means he
just liked have an arm candy. Shoot, yeah, what the fuck?
Yeah? Okay, here's his uh. I mean his wife's cute, especially
for like the seventies, sixties whatever. She's probably right up your alley,
thin blonde. Yeah, let me see pass it down. Yeah, here,
I'll give you if you x out of this too. There's another one,
but hold on, fuck, I just lost it. I'll send it
to you. I'll just let it up. Yeah, just like a young,
just young Nancy Kissinger. She was tall, how tall was he?
I don't think he was that tall. He seems like he's pretty short.
But she's good looking broad for sure. Yeah. I think that's pretty much
I really want to talk about on Kissinger today. I mean, we could
do, you know, hours and hours on his policy, but I think
I'm more interested in what he thought than what he did. Yeah, because
they all know, like you a bunch of fucking shitty things, all the
bad things. Uh. We do have verification though, that he meets the
requirement of an evil person. How tall? Five to nine? That's due?
His wife was six foot. That can't be taller than five to nine.
His wife is like easily three inches taller than him. Yeah, very
tall woman. I think, you know, Rob, you were onto something
though. I think his experiences with a brutal, orderly government in regime kind
of shaped the way for him to understand how power can be wielded. But
also, you know, I think because we're lucky we got him in America,
basically, he's he's our he's our bestard, he's our Draymond Green.
Yeah. Kind of is this your roundabout way of defending Israel right now?
Me? Yeah? No, I don't. I don't know how you would
get that. I'm glad he was our guy. I mean, I'd rather
have him on our team. Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Yeah,
It's like, do you want if he's gonna exist either way, right,
Yeah, might as well be on the squad. It's like, I certainly
don't want him oking my team, right, Yeah, it is. He
is very much like a fucking like Draymond Green or Morris Brother. If we're
just staying NBA, like just a piece of shit Dominica Sue and Dominican Sue.
Yeah, Grace and Allen if you want to go college, I guess
you could, yeah, or NBA. He's kicked some dicks in the NBA
too. I kind of want to leave it on one quote before we kind
of wrap it up here, But this is his last interview. This is
a quote I thought was interesting from him. The leaders of the world have
failed. They have failed to master the overriding concepts, the fundamentals, and
the day to day tactics. Societies have to find a way to solve their
problems without continuously having a series of conflicts. This is the challenge. We
have been facing a period of constant conflict resulting in major wars, destroying much
of the civilization that has been built. It's interesting from a guy who you
know, created so much to instruction in war, he's still saying like we're
doing it wrong, which I think is like maybe a troll even in a
way I think he I think he's annoyed at the noise. I think he's
annoyed at how much attention people pay to the noise from the quote unquote mom
or plubs or whatever. Now, yeah, it's the conflict. The conflict
of ideology is so minuscule, really, And by the way, all you
hear about all the Cambodia and Vietnam stuff, but like the all the stuff
that he was responsible for after you either don't know much about or people's or
like, no, that was actually dope, which means I mean and he
was pretty He came into his own and his career started during Vietnam, right,
so he was early sloppy Kissinger and vi the job. Yeah, by
the time Vietnam was over, like he got real good. No one gives
a fuck about Pinochete shit, Like no one gives a fuck about Central and
South America. I prefer that though my Central intelligence age sees. I need
those to keep everything on the hush hush. Yeah he got good, he
got real, he got real good at his job. Yeah. No,
I mean he really did some incredible nation building stuff. If you're you know,
whether or not you think that's horrifying, I don't, you know.
I'm not gonna sit here and say I like, fucking I don't have to
be that serious about this guy. I don't like the guy necessarily, but
I don't fucking hate him. And as much as I, you know,
respect him or not, I'm in awe of what he was able to accomplish
in the way he changed the way we operated on global scale. Like,
it doesn't matter if it's about fucking democracy or not, it's about America.
All of a sudden, it's okay to hate an immigrant, It's all I'm
hearing, Yeah, right from those people. No, I'm surprised that fucking
gen Z people don't like him because his entire thing is yo vibes. Yeah,
vibes, go on, vibes, baby, All right? Who's Hitler?
Hitler? Who's Hitler? Hitler? I don't know Hitler created this beast.
Hitler did create Hitler. Yeah, he would have stayed in Germany.
I'm want to say, the people that give up the award for the Nobel
Peace Prize. Yes, the Nobel Prize Committee. Yeah, imagine like Hitler.
Hitler is still like a psychopath and wants to conquer the world whatever,
but he doesn't hate Jews, and you know, he gets like certainly like
a little far maybe gets France and shit. But you know Ray it like
lives out his reign and then Kissinger takes over, just steps up. Kissinger
just leads Germany to the future. Yeah, Kissingers could have done it Aaron
Rodgers to Hitler's far. Yeah, I mean, like, dude, they
probably would have gotten just as far if they didn't hate Juice. Yeah,
it's insane, but I yeah, I mean kissing Jerice today's Hitler because I
do kind of go back to like I agree with his ideas on pragmatism,
but like he I feel like he practiced a sort of pessimistic pregnant I'll tell
you what, Kissingers in Germany still or you know, up until he died,
not that many conflicts in the Middle East, probably not as many,
maybe mm hmm, I disagree. I mean we've were kind of responsible for
all of them. Yeah, I don't think Kissinger. I think regardless of
if Kissinger was there, Russia goes into Afghanistan, we're still going in or
South America. South America is probably a little bit better. We were kind
of like a comp effect. I disagree, man. I think we would
have done it, just with different dressing. I think Kissinger kind of was
like, we don't have to dance around this. We can just do these
things right. Everybody in the room is like, all right, we can't
let this happen, but how do we do it? And Henry's just like,
we just do it? Like yeah, yeah, would you guys learn
I learned that if I got in that one guy's cab and he listened to
our podcast, he'd be like, Bro, you saw about hundred Kssinger mount.
Everybody's such a walk to the beach about hundred Kissinger. Bro, I
love that guy. I couldn't dip them in, damn. I learned that
when somebody is getting dogpiled on, just to sit it out always. And
yeah, it was the dumbest Twitter dog pilot like it really was just like
oh easy. But anybody that is of any value to history is going to
have a complex. Just background and story. Are you trying to see he
was a person's human being. I mean, I'm trying to like bounce out
was he was the world better for Kissinger or worse? I don't really want
to defend him because he was a piece of shit. Well right, and
I I yeah, it's like sort of like I said, pessimistic pragmatism.
But at the same time, but you're saying like next man up. Without
Kissinger, somebody else would do it, or it's sort of just like but
also like you can't prove the negative of like you're reacting like what he did
was the worst case scenario. I don't know that that's true. I mean,
yeah, think about if Russia and fucking China link up. Yeah,
like Jessica, I just don't know that I can sign off on what Kissinger
did or what Kissinger was responsible for was the worst case scenario for that time
period. I also learned that Jake doesn't believe that Kissinger was just throwing his
I do. I think someone had a funny quote about that. It's like
the Henry Kissinger's idea of romance is slowing down to thirty to let the date
out at the door, dude, based on his wife. I think he
fucked Oh, I think hit sex. Yes, I know, but I
mean I think he was slinging it. I think he was. I think
he slung it left and right. He's a cocksman, yeah, one hundred
percent. Yeah, I mean, uh, Playboy playmates thought he was the
most interesting person and like most the person they wanted to most go on a
date within the country. Yeah, who are they going to come across that
has that amount of power? You talk to one actor, you talk to
him all I know, honestly, it's so funny, like all of a
sudden, like you think, think fucking Robert Redford is the most important guy
in the room, and then Henry fucking Kissinger walks in. Robert Redford is
a twink, a useless He is basically a waiter compared to Henry Kissinger.
I mean, yeah, Henry Kissinger, for all intents and purposes, is
you know. I'm in awe of him. He's a fucking world builder,
man like, he changed the way the world worked and probably one of the
most influential people on the world that I was born into, which is crazy
to say five. I would say top five. He was easily top five
most influential people in the world you were born into, who was alive at
the same time as you. Yeah, yeah, exactly like the guy.
The guy's an architect of the world I was born into and he was there.
Well, I mean he fucking just died. He's been here the entire
time. Yeah, it's I'm in awe of the guy more than anything.
And I think he's an incredible mind. How do you think he's spent in
his like last couple of years he was consulting, he had a consulting firm.
At ninety he's one hundred, bro, I know, but like in
his nineties he's consultant. Ye, he would do one hundred because he's working.
Yeah, dude, I'm sure you do need something to keep you dude.
I just said in like the twenty was a twenty sixteen campaign. He
was like talking to hilldog, Like for sure he could have been a fucking
vice presidential candidate. When kind of hobby sixteen bro, we could have been
they ever talked about that? Was he a golfer? Uh? I don't
think. I think his hobby was nation building? Yeah? Yeah, I
think he's a grand boy to work home with him, Yeah yeah, yeah,
So yeah, this generation coming up of entrepreneurs, they should respect him.
Absolutely. Yeah, that's our little Eppie on Henry Kissinger. I hope
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Guys cool Man, for Danner, justin Rob Fox, I'm Jake Goldman.
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