What's up, y'all is Drewski and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce
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from Blue Wire Podcasts. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Hardwood
Knocks. This is Adam from Will here with my fantastic co host Dan Favallei,
and we are now in the heart of the abbreviated NBA off season,
which I'm still like trying to wrap my head around how quickly everything is going
to happen. We're recording this on a Monday, the draft is Wednesday.
Then there's only a month until the season is actually set up a start,
and we're already seeing a lot of big news coming out. We had Mario
Hazona op in, we had Tony Snell opt into his player option, and
even bigger news, as hard as it is to believe, Chris Paul was
traded to the Phoenix Suns. We're going to talk about that. We're going
to talk about the Houston Rockets's attempt to trade both of their star guards at
this point. But before we do any of that, a shout out to
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hearing from both of them shortly. We want to encourage everyone to subscribe to
the podcast, to rate and review it wherever you are listening, and you
know, in lieu of asking Dan how he's doing, which I typically do
after these intros, I want to focus on what he told me before we
started recording, which is that he's not a big pasta or bread guy.
And I just I'm still struggling to wrap my head around that, and I
just I need more explanation, Dan. I don't know what it is about,
Like I don't dislike it, but it's never been like something I've been
in love with. The carbs that I've always loved is like is pizza basically,
which is still bread, But like I've never been like, oh,
I need to eat bread, I love, I need to eat mashed potatoes
or anything like fries or anything like that. I don't know what it is.
And I think that's probably why doing carbs only like for eight hours a
week, Like I had my cheat night every Sunday night, as you know,
I used to send you pictures of them, I think. But anyway,
like I guess that's why it's easy for me. It's because I was
never like gravitated towards those food to begin with. Like I was never big
knack and cheese guy. But I did eat pasta before we recorded this.
The night before we recorded this, I told you I had some penny alavaca
chicken and some pesto and pena with chicken. It was it wasn't bad,
but again like it was just for not having had it in almost two years.
I was like, I'm just I'm just baffled by this. You like
gave me the Quinn Schneider deaths. There. The entire grew up in a
family that like had the pasta all the time, and like a thirty six
hour pasta drought is like substantial in our house now and just I'm struggling here.
I just I can't believe that. I'm wondering how many subscribers you're costing
us right now. The numbers are plunging because I don't eat enough cars or
don't like bread and pasta. How are you doing? We want everyone,
wanting everyone to tweet at Dan with their favorite pasta dishes. That is my
call to action for this podcast. Forget about our Chris Paul takes and our
our draft picks and our Mario Hazzonia takes. Just tweet pasta recipes at Dan.
He will at Dan FAVALLEI favl e. He will not be using them,
So you'll be yelling into the great voice Adam will be satisfied though the
Chris Paul trade though, like or should we just talk about Mario Hazonia.
It's really up to you, all right, we'll say Chris Paul. So
like we've had the podcast, We've already had multiple Rockets podcasts, and we'll
get to the James Harden trade rumors after this, and we actually already had
a Chris Paul podcast. But the trade actually goes down and the final return
to recap was Phoenix is trading the Thunder a top twelve protected first round pick
in twenty twenty two, plus the big name in this trade Jail and Luck
Tie Jerome Kelly Woodbrady Junior and Ricky Rubio getting back Chris Paul and Abdiel Nader.
I My hot take on this trade is that I don't have a hot
take. I like it for both sides, Like this feels like a risk
that Phoenix needed to take, and insofar as it is even a risk,
like yes, there's a chance maybe Paul won't be as healthy as he was
this past season, but there's just two years left on his deal. And
even if you view it as like should we get peak Paul or a great
version of Chris Paul. This is still only a two year move. I
feel like the opportunity cost was justifiable because Ricky Rubio is under contract for that
same length of time. Kelley Obrad Junior was good, but I feel like
as a play finisher, he's kind of expendable on this team and he was
going to be a free agent in twenty twenty one. If you're really high
on Tie Jerome, I get it, but like he wasn't really factoring into
the backup guard rotation last year when you desperately needed that. And then finally,
I think the asset here if you're okay, see you're looking at is
the twenty twenty two pick, and I saw that there's increasing pessimism that people
don't think that's going to be the combined draft for high school seniors and college
freshman And so from the Sun's perspective, you have to like that. And
if you're the Thunder, you get another first round pick, and now you
have I think sixteen possibly seventeen over the next six drafts, and you're getting
players who can actually play. Now that you've traded Dennis Shrewder the Lakers,
and we can probably talk about that briefly if you wanted to. You have
Ricky Rubio coming in and Paul's gone as well, so you technically need another
playmaker. But you also have these two guys in Ubra and Rubio, who
I think you can get something for. I don't know what it is.
Maybe it's more attractive if you're taking back less savery deal like I don't know
if Kelly Bridge Jr's expiring contract get you a first on its own. Maybe
if you're taking back a multi year deal. But now you have those options,
and so you keep turning these big name players into more bites at the
Apple and for a team that's preparing to rebuild, I think that's incredibly important.
And look now they're even more armed if they want to go in on,
you know, pivot, if they want to get involved into James Harden
sweepstakes, like they can if they want to. I agree with pretty much
everything you said there. My hot take was also that it's a good move
for both sides, and that isn't always the case with these blockbuster NBA transactions
that we see, I mean from the Thunder's perspective, like Sam Presty managed
to take on assets to get Chris Paul and then move him for actual assets
without giving up anything else of value. So that's definitely a win for them.
You know, they're they're continuing to build this stockpile of roughly seven thousand
first round picks in the next decade, and eventually they're going to have to
package those into something. But it gives them so much flexibility moving forward because
they have multiple picks in every single draft for the foreseeable future, so when
a star comes available, you can meet whatever timeline is being asked. There's
value in that They're still going to be competitive. I mean, I feel
like it's it's hard to believe that a team that was supposed to be rebuilding
and exceeded expectations on the strength of a second team All NBA season from Chris
Paul can move Chris Paul and still be a playoff contender in the Western Conference.
But like their core is now Ricky Rubio, shaygil Just, Alexander Kelly
wee Bray Junior, and Steven Adams. I mean, they could move Adams
and continue to offload these veteran pieces. They could try to bring Danilo Gallinari
back on a one year deal and remain competitive. There are so many options
no matter what direction the Thunder want to go in, and that's a huge
win for them in and of itself. With Phoenix, you know, you
and I had talked about how this was one of our ideal landing spots for
Chris Paul from the start, as soon as we knew that he was going
to be dealt at some point this off season. That he's just such a
tremendous fit next to Devin Booker, and the fact that they could get him
without giving up Mikhail Bridges or Cam Johnson, that's a huge one. Number
ten. I think that's big number ten. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
but yeah, I mean it's a perfect fit. It's a veteran leader for
a franchise that is young and looking to end this interminable playoff drought, and
as competitive as the Western Conference is set to be this coming season, it's
hard not to have them in one of those eight spots now right. And
look, and I think the biggest thing this does is Chris Paul is a
great compliment to Devin Booker, maybe to allow Booker to play off the ball
a little bit more. I don't know that he necessarily needs to, Like
I think he's shown he can shoulder this high volume role efficiently. And I
mentioned this when I recorded The Sun's look Ahead podcast with Mike fe Hill,
was that the passes he's making, like they're not showy or super complicated like
Ben Simmons or James Harden, but they're creating shots that wouldn't otherwise be there
for his teammates. Like even if you look at him backing down smaller guards
or wings in the post and teams collapse on him so heavily. Now that
he can throw just these simple kickouts, those shots wouldn't be there if you
don't have his on ball gravity, I'll call it. But what this does
also is the Sun's offense was in the seventh percent tile when Devin Booker was
off the court next last season. So you go, if you're wondering,
that's actually terrible, it's the seventh percentile one hundred and two point seven points
per one hundred possessions. Now with Rubio on the court, when Booker was
off, it was actually worse. It was in the third percentile ninety nine
point four. You're now giving those minutes to Chris Paul, Like think about
that, Like that is absolutely mind blowing. And what this also does is
it gives you someone else who there should be more pick and roll sy synergy.
I think between Eton and Chris Paul, just because Chris Paul's an actual
threat to pull up and just score in general really where Rubio is not that
aggressive, and so that's going to open up different things for Eton. But
looking specifically at the Sun's off season now, the way that this trade was
structured, I think it's pretty clear that they're planning on also trying to use
cap space, and so they can have between I'll have them at sixteen million
and almost nineteen million, depending on what they do with they have Elliot Coubo's
non guaranteed deal, Javon Carter is a free agent, and Cameron payin as
a team option. I thought Carter a Cobo and Pain. Those those guys
were all locks too. You keep their holds. They're so small, and
I think Carter you still keep because this hold is under two million dollars and
he's like perfect as someone. He's a guard who needs to play off the
ball anyway and defends his ass off shoots three as well. I don't know
what we're run in general. That's my Chavon Carter take right, and I
don't know what you do with you know, a Cobo and Pain just because
I would pick up Pain's team option based on how he played, but like
you can save a million dollars by replacing with a minimum. But anyway,
so they're gonna have you also have to renounce Bains, Commitsky's team option and
then Sarich as part of this deal, or you can resign Bains and Sarich
and like still complete this deal. But it seems like they're going to use
cap space based on how it we're structured, and I would almost I don't
want to guess, but it feels like they might be willing to decline Pain's
team option as well, in addition to Commitskys and and renouncing other people since
he wasn't one of the salaries included in this trade, so that they're trying
to keep themselves as flexible as possible. And I don't know what names get
thrown to hear people have mentioned Gallinari, Jeremy Grant seems far fetched because the
Nuggets need to keep him, in my opinion, and can pay him more
than anyone. But there are other names that can fit here. And now
all of a sudden, it's not just oh, we're a team on the
come up. You have Chris Paul to sell perspective players on now and maybe
you're even at a conversation for ring chasing veterans. What if Paul Millsap decides
that he's gonna come for the room exception or something, and so now they
have those avenues available where it's you can use cap space, you'll have the
room exception two. And then you go and you complete this trade for Chris
Paul. I don't know if any names if you looked at free asient targets
for the Sons or but like you mentioned, penciling them in to one of
the eight spots in the West, and from the way it looks like this
deal is going to unfold, I feel like you have to because they're not
done. Is how this feels. My initial reaction when looking at the free
agency class and who I would like to see end up there, The number
one name that comes to mind is Paul Millsap. I feel like he would
just be a great fit in this front court. Another veteran presence, another
really smart player on both ends of the floor, a guy who doesn't really
need to touch the ball that frequently, as we saw with the Denver Nuggets.
He would be a great fit next to Aden, He'd be a great
fit with the backcourt. I would really like to see that happen if possible.
I would like to see them try to swing some sort of move for
Rudy Gay. I think he's another really intriguing fit with this team. But
I think that's like the level of signing that we're looking at here, Like
if if Gallanari is willing to take a discount and come play, they're great.
I think that's slightly far fetched given the financial situation. But yeah,
I think Millsap is number one on my list here. Yeah, I'm just
I'm curious sports free agents. They enter the fold for it's they could have
the money. I think to go after Gallo, but I don't know that
you necessarily need him when you have Chris Paul and Devin Booker, Like if
you want another shot, I guess you still need that set you want,
like a third shot creator. But there are so many options avail them.
They might just go low end too, Like you can bring back Sarich and
then go chase Alec Burks and Paul millsapp like they're a bunch of stuff that
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first terms and conditions apply before moving on from this deal. Specifically for the
thunder, what's the over under on the number of first round picks they've yet
to acquire. I'm just looking at Rubio, I'm looking at Ubre like it
feels like they're also going to be among the teams that aren't done and look
they have they might be able to sign and trade Gallow depending on what teams
are interested in him, And it feels like they're going I'll set it at
one point five. Are you gonna take Oh, I'm gonna take the under,
just because I think that the franchise has shown that it can rebuild while
remaining competitive, and just by taking Rubio back along with with Ubrey, I
think it's another indication that they don't want to just bottom out. And if
you're moving Steven Adams, you're trying to bottom out just because you don't have
another option to fill that role. So I think that they know that they
can attempt to compete for that eighth spot in the West, whether successful or
not. You know, just getting to play in the in the postseason would
be a benefit, but not necessarily a disaster if it doesn't happen while still
having so much asset juice to make a move whenever an opportunity is created.
So I don't think they need to make any subsequent blockbuster moves or blow it
up moves, because this roster is uniquely positioned in a way that it can
remain competitive while also doing a fantastic job. But from the rebuilding front and
looking at the Western Comerce playoff picture, like in the aftermath of this,
since we're penciling the Sun's in, let me go through the teams that we
think are going to be guaranteed to go in. So we have the Lakers,
the Clippers, the Nuggets, the Jazz, the Jazz. Do we
throw the Warriors in there? I think you have to. I would just
with Steph Clay and Draymond. So now things get interesting because of the ship
showing Houston. They're there, Oklahoma City, Portland, Dalla safely rule,
is Houston going to be the worst team in the Western Conference if they do
end up moving Harden? Yeah, there's that's just the natural segue here.
So the James Harden wants out like that was reported by Shams Sharania. Now
like it's been inching towards that where it was what was the phrasing, Tim
McMahon, and what would use and the plausible eventual possibility is now a reality
he wants out. As Sham's also reported, it's Houston's willing to keep both
him and Westbrook, which I actually think it's smart. I don't know how
realistic it is. You know, I've been on team running back from the
start. Well, look here's the way I'm with you, and this is
I know it's hard to exist like this in a vacuum if your stars are
actually that unhappy. But James Harden has three years left on his contract,
and then if you want to blow it up, I would make the case
that next summer is the better time to do it because Harden's value isn't going
to dip. He'll still have two years before we can hit free age.
She left on his deal, and you have the benefit of Russell Westbrook being
closer to free agency, where maybe it's like, okay, two years and
ninety one million dollars looks a lot better than three years and one hundred and
thirty two point six, So I would I would run it back. Do
you expect them too? Like I won't even say start because we're so close.
And by the way, the best way I've seen this phrase someone point
out the NBA's there's usually three months between the draft and the opening of training
camps, and this year there's going to be eleven days. Like that is
absolutely mind blowing to me. Anyway, do you think James Harden finishes the
season in Houston before we get into the nitty gritty granul in Houston? Really?
So there's a point of no return with these things, Like when it's
clear that both sides want to make changes, it's so hard to squeeze those
players back into the locker room. Like we've reached the point now, And
you know, I have no reason to doubt the validity of the recording here,
especially as it's gotten more definitive where we don't just know that Harden might
maybe kind of want to at least think about potentially possibly having a trade away
from Houston, maybe to like he wants to go to Brooklyn or Philadelphia,
right, And I just I don't know how you come back from that.
Yeah, I would. I would argue they've reached the point of no return,
but there's a lot of stuff needs to come together for this to happen
by December twenty second, And part of it is Houston has to know that
if you're trading James Harden, you aren't getting fair value back. There's there's
no one that is going to be willing to trade equivalent value for a top
five player in the NBA still in the heart of his prime, an offensive
system unto himself, like you're just are you going to ask for eight first
round picks and a and a young superstar? Like it's not, it's not
going to happen. So like, if if they're making this move, it's
because they've accepted that they have to move him, which I think opens the
door for lesser returns and more realistic chances of him being moved expeditiously. And
I also I that's a good point. I would say, regardless of what
happens, Rockets fans should probably brace themselves and look, I'm gonna I'm gonna
criticize Tillman Fatida until forever because he's just terrible NBA team governor. I don't
know why they let him buy into the league. It seems like, however,
I would if I'm fans, even if you had darnmor's your GM navigating
this, I'd be prepared to get back less than you would expect. Just
because James Harden is a top five NBA player, I'm not arguing that he
is. He gives you a line to the postseason on his own. He's
one of those few players that does that. He's thirty one, and so
you're talking about his age thirty two, thirty three, and thirty four seasons.
He's also a thirty one with a game that's going to age. Well,
I think it's important we say okay, So I'm gonna push back a
little bit on that. There has been a shift in Houston where if you
watch footage from from Harden by the way of like twenty thirteen, so explosive,
just completely different player. So no, his game isn't pridate on athleticism,
but he has missed like barely any games since he's been in Houston during
the regular season. When you look at some of these usage rates forty point
five in twenty eighteen, nineteen thirty six point three last year at thirty six
point one the year before, he has some really high used seasons under his
belt. I think the next three years of James Harden are spectacular seasons,
but you can't give up what I don't think you could give up. I
mean unless you're getting another stars part of it. Like when you look at
what the Clippers gave up for Paul George. They traded for Paul George and
Kwai Leonard. The best way I've heard a phrase is that the thunder found
a way to trade Kawai without ever having him on their roster and Sam Presty
everyone. So I don't think that's a say even if you view Harden is
the finishing piece, it's a different situation here. And yes, Leonard and
Paul George are theoretically they could leave la sooner, but you have a longer
part of their primes left. I'm not saying James Harden isn't gonna net a
haul. I think he will. But like if you're expecting the Rockets to
get like seven first round, like it's I think you're gonna get less for
James Harden than the thunder God for Paul George would be my prediction. I
think that's totally I think we're looking at something like Karras Lavert, Jared Allen,
maybe Spencer Dinwoody two and a pair of first round picks is going to
be an initial kind of offer. Yeah, let's look, let's talk about
the two teams he mentioned Brooklyn. They have a very attractive trade package.
If you're not looking to rebuild the issues, I think you would go Lavert,
Dinwoody Allen as the base, and then you're throwing in distant future picks.
Maybe beginning you could throw in number nineteen after the draft, but you
know, twenty twenty three and twenty twenty five, putting that in play,
maybe betting against the NETS's future. Throw swaps in there you can, and
then what are the protections on you know, the distant picks. That stuff
all matters. I don't think that ends up being the destination, like unless
teams are really intimidated by what Harden could do with three years left on his
deal, Because Dinwoody's going to be a free agent after next season, Jared
Allen's going to command more money. Lavert is on a great contract. He's
also twenty six, So you're not getting like that high upside there unless you're
able to suss out a third and fourth team to where they really valued Dim
and LeVert and these pieces to send back higher end assets toward Houston. I
don't know that this deal get done gets done. However, do you think
the Rockets are going to want to rebuild as part of a James Harden trade?
Is there a scenario in which James Harden is gone leading into this season
but Russell Westbrook is still there? Probably? I think that's more likely than
than the best first at this point. Then if you're resigned to that,
then the Nets package, I think gets a little bit more attractive because there's
that push to win now. Then Yeah, and ultimately I think that's what
will end up happening. Now, that's that's my initial speculation as to what
the actual outcome is going to be, is that he's going to be in
Brooklyn and it's going to be a disaster. Do you think he's gonna end
up in Brooklyn? I find that interesting? Yeah, it seems clear that
like he and Kevin Durant have been talking about that possibility, and we know
what's happened the last time Kevin Durant was talking about a free agency possibility they
have. They seem to have the most realistic and attain will package. I
mean, you know, we could we could talk about like Mitchell Robbins and
RJ. Barrett and picks for the New York Knicks. But Harden's not gonna
want to go there, Like he clearly wants to be on a competitive team
right away. Philadelphia, if they're even willing, if Houston is even willing
to trade with it, given Darryl Morey's departure and subsequent hiring by the seventy
six ers, now they're not going to give you Ben Simmons or Joel Embiid
for him. You don't think they would give up Ben Simmons for James Harden.
I don't think so. I think that's the swat that's staring everyone in
the face. I think that if you're Houston, you're probably having to do
something else as part of that deal. Just because Simmons is exponentially younger.
He's not better than Art, I want to make that clear. But you
would probably have to take back Horford it maybe it would be Horford and Simmons,
let's say, for Harden and Rocco. Just given the potential animosity between
the two franchises and Tilman for Tita's disdain for having to spend money, I
can't see him wanting to take on that kind of contract because it just it
automatically limits what he can do for the next few years. Yeah. So
like and I keep coming back to Brooklyn if that is the problem is because
with Simmons, he's like so cheap relative to Harden, who's out like basically
forty million, that you need to include more money in there, like Simmons
for Harden does not I'll double check it, but him just map my head,
it does not work straight up. So and if you're the Sixers,
it's like, Okay, Harden's better now, and I know you're very win
now, but Ben Simmons is what is he twenty two, twenty three?
Like, so it's tough. Yeah, so you can't do that by itself.
Like and do you even want to give him Josh Richardson and Ben Simmons,
Like it feels like too much for Harden on the Sixers part. And
if you're getting Ben Simmons and you're keeping Russell Westbrook not the best fit in
Houston. If you're tearing everything down, I think you absolutely want to rebuild
around Ben Simmons, Like that's not heartbeat. That would be the smartest play
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online sportsbook experts. I am wondering if there are any other teams that you
could see getting involved. Not surprisingly, I can throw out some trade packages
at you if you would like to hear them. What, No, way,
No, It's it's tricky to come up with these, and I am
curious to see what you have because it feels like, despite him being an
obvious top five player, that the market is still at least somewhat limited because
by moving for him, You're blowing everything up and completely altering your system on
a moment's notice. So like that just automatically limits it. Plus, his
style of play isn't necessarily conducive to some incumbent talents, you know, like
the Atlanta Hawks aren't going to offer like John Collins, number six and future
picks for him because there's no way you would want him next to Trey Young.
So I think you see a lot of situations like that, coupled with
Harden's probable desire to go to a competitive team. It's not like he's gonna
want to go to the Charlotte Hornets. It's not like he's gonna want to
go play with the Aaron Fox and Sacramento No. It's just it's it's like
I said, I'm curious to see what you came up with, because I've
had trouble generating possibilities beyond the names that have already been floated. So I
want to make this car. I don't necessarily think that these were good fits,
but these would be deals that could be looked at. I'm gonna I
skipped over Atlanta Boston. You could do Jalen Brown and Kemba Walker for James
Harden and Robert Covington. I don't know what other value probably has to go
to Houston in that deal. They have three first round picks this year,
they have all their future picks. But that would be the salary framework you
have Grant Williams and Romeo Lankford as well, if Houston wanted to stay competitive,
but you're still getting someone who's kind of young and Brown, Kemba and
Russ are not obviously agree. I mean, Walker could playoff for us if
he needs to. That's not something you want to roll with long term.
I don't know how you feel about Tatum and Harden playing together, but like
if you don't know how Brad Stevens would feel about that, that's where my
mind went first. It's like I could just imagine him yanking all of his
hair out as he dries, as he tries to draw up atos. But
that would be that would be a framework of a package, and that would
be like you're getting Kimba, who's a present star, and then you're getting
Joe and Brown, who's like that shake gilgis Alexander type of asset that the
Clippers got where it's a fringe. All that the thunder got from the Clippers.
He's better than Shay I would say right now, but like fringe All
Star type. I don't know if I would. If I was Houston,
I'd probably be more apt to consider that than if I was Boston. I
agree with that it's a reasonable it's a reasonable deal, But it comes back
to my thing about how I just there are so many franchises that I'm going
to rule out because of either fit or Harden's desire to play for a certain
team, and this would fall into the former category. Chicago could be a
team where I feel like they're not not that they are not competitive. They
could be a fringe playoff team the way that they're built, but they could
go all in on a hardened because they can build out the entire team around
him still and they know they have three years to do it. You start
with I think the two most important assets I can already say I really like
this one or the three most important assets are pick number four, Kobe White
and the next year's pick unprotected as well, because maybe James, maybe they're
not as good the first year, and then I don't know how you flush
it out from there. Is Zach Lavina must include you have Wendel Carter Junior,
you have Larry Marketing, because I would think if Houston goes towards this
package, they probably prefer to rebuild. And I don't think Zach Lavine is
Look, his salary is palatables. He's a good player, but if you're
not, and if you're keeping Westbrook, he would make sense. And if
you could get him out of Chicago, I think you do that. But
you could also go the you know, we'll take Liar market and Wendell Carter
Junior, really give us another first or something like. That's the I'm not
saying they get all six of those things, but they do have other money
they can They have Auto Porter Junior's deal is like a placeholder, Like that's
twenty eight million right there, and it comes off the books. So if
you have to keep him, if you're acquiring Harden, you think Lavine,
you have to keep him. That's I think you have to keep him and
Auto Quarter. Oh those two well then yeah, I think I think the
package that you suggested. Houston comes back and asks for both Wendell Carter Junior
and Lorie marken In and then settles for one of the two. So you
have to sell Harden on not necessarily being a championship contender right now, but
having the cap space, the market and the desire with a new front office
to build around him, which could be doable. Like I said at the
beginning, like this is one that I can I can get behind because if
your core is him, Leavine and Auto Porter Junior, that's a good start
on a rebuilding team. I'd agree, it gets tough if you're not going
to include Otto Porter Junior Zach Lavine to start matching money because White the number
four pick after it turns into a salary and Wendell Carter Junior give you eighteen
and so if you add let's say Thaddeus Young is the next most expensive player
after that, that's going to bring you to thirty one. So you're still
another player, Sure you could. I mean you have Christiano Felicihow's expiring deal,
you have Thomas s Aduranski. But now you're getting into like five for
one situation. So that's why I think Porter might be or Levine would be
appealing, because they kind of soak up two players, two to three players
worth of salary on their own. If I'm Houston is one point. And
if I'm Houston, look, if I am trading Harden, maybe the return
isn't what fans are expect. Thing I'm not making concessions as part of this
deal either. It's like, you know, what if you don't want the
partial guarantee I'm Thaddeus Young in year three, then I'm not making that deal.
But I think they're a team where it's like they're clearly not on Harden's
list, they're not ready to win. I could see them doing something like
this, But I also agree with you. I would lean towards you want
to keep zach Lavine as part of that, because then you sell him Harden,
you're still the guy. It's a two star base with someone in zac
Lavine who's easier to fit around you. And then you flesh out the team
from there with what because you're trading all these picks and prospects. I don't
necessarily know, but it would certainly make Chicago interesting. Then you just absorb
al Horford's contract and take on bad money, and you know, then you
go from there. What if so the Warriors, what if they do the
Andrew Wiggins number two, the Minnesota pick, let's say two swaps and then
three future first round picks. I'm protected, like and that might even be
too much, But I'm saying, what if they want to Andrew Wiggins number
two the Minnesota pick next year and then flesh it out with as many picks
as you need from there, would you like that for either side? I'm
genuinely asking. I think so, really, Yeah, yeah, I think
it's especially appealing from Houston side, just because you can recreate the franchise in
whatever way you want. You can be the latest team to take a shot
on Andrew Wiggins and and hope that maybe you get something out of him,
and you have so much asset juice down the road from an organization that is
leaving no doubt that it is taking advantage of an extremely limited title window with
no hope in the future. Because, like, if Golden State is doing
that, and you ask for those picks to be unprotected or as slightly protected
as possible, knowing that three years down the road, when the Curry,
Clay Thompson, Draymond Green and James harden Core has aged out that those are
going to be very valuable picks, Golden State would also just become like the
most hated team in the history of basketball. Can you imagine the reactions if
they went from, you know, having this sick team that added Kevin Durant
to losing him and then trading Andrew Wiggins and the pick that they lucked into
because of the injuries during their one down year for James Harden. That would
be wild. And so, since you're actually altered, the hard Curry fit
is kind of appealing to It would be a defensive disaster, but it would
also be so offensively potent that it might not matter because both of those guys
are Hardened. Doesn't really like to play off the ball. He kind of
stand still. Curry is a master off the ball, and I could given
the back seat that he willingly took to Kevin Durant, I could see him
altering how he played again to maximize his game around Harden. I don't I
don't doubt for a second Stephen Curry could do it. I'm not sure if
I want to see it, because I really want to see Stephen Curry more,
in least for an entire season. You also needed to pick up like
probably two like you because you don't want to play green at center like you
need to pick up some strong defensive centers and then another strong defensive wing because
you have Draymond Green and Clay Thompson a flesh out like that's your former combination,
but you need who's your center gonna be? Even in smaller ball lineups,
like you're gonna need another like power wing there to really help you.
Since you're so interested in this package, then I didn't think you were going
to be because I don't think I was. What does it specifically have to
look like? Then? Because it's Wiggins, it's number two as an actual
salary, it's that Minnesota pick, and so I think if you're Houston,
just based on your own pick commitments elsewhere, you want a swap with Golden
State in two and twenty two, although do they not own their own first
round pick in two thousand and twenty two? That was the other thing I
couldn't confirm. No, they have, they have it. So you swap
with Golden State in two and twenty two unprotected in twenty twenty three, they
and then I think you go with like twenty twenty five as loosely protected as
possible. That seems like the move where it's a swap and two firsts on
top of the two picks. But I think the problem is do they need
more because they're also taking on Andrew Wiggins as part of this package. Does
Houston need more? Yeah, you're looking at four first round picks plus a
swat. No, Because I think I think because Houston is very clearly committing
to the long game in that situation, that it's more palatable to have Andrew
Wiggins's contract, which isn't like some interminable deal it does eventually expire, then
I think you probably need I think you My guess would have to be you
also have to give them a twenty twenty three swa as well, because they
do have their twenty twenty three pick. So I think it would have to
be two swaps, two picks on top of number. If Golden State is
if Golden State thinks it can win with the Harden, Curry, Green Thompson
quartet, it doesn't care about those those future pick swaps and and outgoing draft
picks because it's trying to capitalize on the window that's open right exactly now.
Another team that I wouldn't want to be in Golden State when that window closed,
then just a what it would take to get Harden on top of like,
what are you You're paying some of these stars into their mid to late
thirties. I would I would be here for it, but I would lean
towards if we got to pick, Like from a basketball entertainment perspective, there's
like a part of me that's morbidly curious about James Harden and Golden State,
but like I'm good with like I'd rather yeah, I mean, like in
terms of what I enjoy watching the most, Like I know, it's like
the unpopular opinion at this point. I like watching James Harton like as a
one man show. He's so ridiculously talented and good in a unique way.
They're like I kind of like if I had my druthers, like maybe he
did end up in some place like Charlotte where he's just the unquestioned superstar again
and he can try to average forty points per game, Like do you know
it would be awesome to see him? They just don't. They talk about
how they have the assets to acquire the next disgruntled star, and it's clear
that they don't. But New York like that is a blank slate, Like
that would be the situation to see him in the Mitchell Robinson, RJ.
Barrett and future picks package, which is not gonna win that bidding. Just
a couple more teams here. This one is I propose it to you last
night. If Paul George is willing to stay, you reunite him with Russell
Westbrook and you get Landry Shammitt, and you can pick from Lou Williams,
Patrick Beverly or Jamichael Green's in there too with his player option, but I
would say probably Beverly or Lou will plus Shammitt and Paul George for James Harden.
I don't hate the Leonard Harden fit. I actually kind of love it.
I feel like Leonard and Paul George together would be like an ideal supporting
cast surrounding stars for Harden. I'm not sure I had to backtrack because I
don't. I don't think it's fair to call that a supporting cast. Well,
Paul George would be traded in this scenario, so it wouldn't be Leonard.
But I'm saying, if you can find a way to like not move
him in the deal, they have no picks to give, so that's not
that's the issue. Yeah, that's the issue. Would you do that if
you're LAC I probably not, just because I think that you you run a
big risk of it not working and then losing Kawhi Leonard. That's true,
and he did want to come with Paul George. I would say if they
would do it straight up, I might consider it more if I'm if I'm
Los Angeles, Yeah, it's it's a fun fit, but I think it's
just it's like too much of a risk reward for where that franchise is right
now. Just after the way Paul George played in the playoff, was some
meant to consider I'm going to loop these final two teams together. Do you
see? Like I look at the like maybe young teams that could put together
interesting like young players or picks package, And I guess it's really three teams
you have. Okay, see with all those picks, you have New Orleans
with all those Lakers picks, plus you know Lonzo Ball is there, Josh
Hart and you kill Walker Alexander. I would assume you're not trading Zion.
I've also thought about Memphis. You have like between him and Morant, Harden
and Morant wouldn't be it. I guess it's not the greatest hit, but
you do have Triple J and Brandon Clark. I don't know that I love
the idea for either of those three teams. If you had to pick one
of them to do it, my pick would be New Orleans. I'm curious
of the three, which you would like to see, not what you would
like to see, but which you could see going all in on a hardened
trade if the opportunity presented itself. I feel like New Orleans is probably the
most likely, just because Harden could be a really good fit next to Zion
Williamson. I don't want to see it happen in Memphis is bad, I
would say, questionable, and like Morant was so good with the ball in
his hands, and I just that's one of those up and coming organizations where
I just I don't have any interest in blowing things up. It's just they're
already on such a promising trajectory that I don't I don't think that they should
have any interest in making a move like this, even if it would expedite
the timeframe. So yeah, I guess New Orleans by default. Maybe.
Look, I would love to see Harton in Toronto, like I don't know
if they would build something around Kyle Lowry og and then all the picks ever,
and you have Matt Thomas, And I don't actually want to see Kyle
Lowry leave Toronto because he is my emotional muse. I feel like Kyle Lowry
is like if I was a basketball player, I'd want to be Kyle Lowry.
I would run through a brick rawl right now for Kyle Lowry, but
that would be a team I'd love to see him on. I did finally
want to ask you really quick about that Lakers trade Dennis Shrewder going from the
Thunder to Los Angeles for Danny Green and the number twenty eight pick. I
was free agency needs to play out for me first, because the Lakers wings
right now, like actually like true wings are Lebron and Kuzma, and that's
not like like defensively like you want. I know, Kuzma's gotten better and
Lebron played better defense last year. You need someone like you had Danny Green
to go up against some star wings. I know you could still resign KCP,
but like you need they need another player in that like six six to
six eight range, And even Danny Green was undersized for certain matchups, but
I kind of felt like Danny Green has been on three title teams. It
didn't happen on accident. I know he shot twenty nine percent in the finals,
like if he was still valuable. Yeah, but it just it wasn't
an accident. And so to you of him and a first for Shrewder,
who is Look, you're betting on he shot a career high for basically everywhere
on the floor last year, which makes it an outlier. So you're betting
on that continuing. And while the talent around him will be better. The
Chris Paul minutes when Chris Paul is off the court, excuse me, the
no Chris Paul mitts in Okay, See we're not pretty last year and he
had Shay Gildest Alexander with him and Steven Adams and Gallo for some of those
minutes, and you're actually not going to have that deep of an offensive supporting
cast around you in Los Angeles. Look, I need to see free agency
play out. They can make other moves. Maybe they're signing I don't know
if them signing Wesley Matthews would make me feel a lot better about this deal,
because Danny Green in your first round pick, like was the move short
of it? Also including Kyle Kuzma, like that was your move this offseason,
and you turn it into Dennis Shrewder, who I get his appealing because
he's going to be a free agent next year when Lebron will be a free
agent. So now you have a ton of flexibility. Should you want to
maybe do something with cap space or just to get creative depending on which contracts
should give out this season. I'm just not a huge fan of it,
and I would think if you're trying to win a title for this team,
I feel like the plug in plainness of Danny Green is a three and D
player is more valuable to me than Dennis Shrewder. And again, if they
signed someone or two people in free agency that renders this mood. I'm not
trying to ship on the Lakers. I think it's a worth while risk.
I think people were kind of overselling the no brainerness of it all though.
I mean, I think the Lakers lost the trade all right. Could they
could turn it into something salvageable, like you mentioned, with free agency pursuits
to fill in what was lost with Danny Green. But I would rather have
Danny Green the Dennis Shrewder for this team in a vacuum, and they're the
one that gave up the pick to make it happen. So by definition,
I think that they're the losers of the deal. You know, as you
mentioned, Shrewder shot career highs from literally everywhere on the floor. I questioned
the sustainability of that. We know that he thrived when he was playing in
the three guard lineups that Okac ran out, which Los Angeles will not be
able to do, and he really struggled without Chris Paul on the floor.
He is primarily a scorer. He is not a particularly notable defender. He
doesn't always get his teammates involved, which means that he's not really the Ray
gen Rondo type of backup point guard that you need in Los Angeles to shoulder
those minutes without Lebron James on the floor. So I just I question the
value and the fit. Yeah, the Thunder had an offensive reading the thirty
fourth percent tile when Shay and Dennis Dennis played without Chris Paul last year.
If you add Gallo into that, it was the sixtieth percentile. But it
wasn't like he was carrying these units. I think the no Lebron minutes here
are important, maybe not as important in the playoffs, but to get through
the regular season. And I'm just maybe it works out, but I think
it's it's a bigger risk than people were really crediting. So I'm interesting how
it plays out, and again, free agencies a part of it. I
also don't know, like, if they signed Wesley Matthews, how much better
about this deal? Does that make you feel? Because it does because of
the matchup we did against Jimmy Butler, But it's like you're kind of the
net neutral on the wings from where you were before. They just want a
title, so it's like they have cart block to make the risk that they
want to take. So if you're getting Wesley Matthews, I guess it makes
me feel a lot better. But the fact that they still gave up a
pick, and I know, okaycy has no reason to do this without the
pick, it just it feels like for now, again, until free agency
plays out, I would think they to get Matthews and someone else on the
wings for me to feel like really confident that this was this was the play
for them to make. The other thing is like if I'm the Lakers.
I want to prioritize those late first round picks more than they are just because
you're gonna have to pay all of the money to Lebron and Anthony Davis,
which makes it that much more important to have rotation players on cheap deals.
And you know, we've we've talked at nauseum about how bad this draft class
is, but that's primarily because there's not much star power. There's a significant
amount of like rotation potential in this draft. As you move out of the
lottery, there are a number of intriguing upper classmen who are going to be
entering the NBA in a weird set of circumstances. You know, like I
would, I would just I would rather them take a shot on someone like
Cassius Winston or or Desmond Bane and see if they can get that legitimate rotation
player on a cheap contract instead of taking a risk like this. Yeah,
I'll shat for me this particular risk, I would agree with you. But
Lebron's teams just they don't even give those young guys a chance. It just
had never happened in Cleveland or even really Miami, So I think that's why
they devalue first so much, but in a vacuum might agree with you and
just food for thought. And I know Anthony Davis is going to be in
Los Angeles, but okay, see half court efficiency in the thirty second percent
tile with Shrewder and Shay Gilgist Alexander on the court, no Chris Paul in
no scenarios. If you add Danilo Gallinari to this, that actually went up
to the eighty third percent tiles. So maybe there's some potential there, but
you need another really good score next to him during those non Lebron minutes.
I don't Maybe Anthony Davis catch you there, but I will say the Lakers
half court efficiency without Lebron on the court last year ranked in the twenty fifth
percent tile. And I'm just I'm not sure if Dennis Shrewder is the guy
that addresses this, It'll be interesting to find out. Do you have anything
else to add talk about? Not particularly, I think we're just kind of
waiting for the next shoe to fall here. We're recording this shortly after that
moratorium whatever you want to call it on trades was lifted, and already we've
seen James Harden News and Chris Paul actually getting traded. So I'm just I'm
curious what's going to be next. I still I maintain from a previous episode
that I don't think that many more All Stars are going to get moved.
Yeah, the James Harden thing throws a wrench into that. What was the
over? Under? What did you pick? I forgot? You picked?
Under said two and a half, and I said under, Oh yeah,
I did think. I did think that Chris Paul was going to be the
only All Star moved. So that's probably going to be wrong already, but
I just beyond hardened now, Like I just want if they moved Westbrook,
that's totally feasible. What happens if Simmons and Hardener swapped for each other?
You lose? Correct? I do lose. I always lose. So you
know this was great. We will keep you informed with you know, analyzing
the latest rumors and trades. It's it's frenetick out there right now, but
it's a fun time of year. Please please pretty please with sugar on top.
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