What's going on? Clippers fans? Welcome Season two, episode seventy three of
Clips and Dip. I am Chuck Buckler, joined by Will Upticking Adam Osland.
We're coming at you two days after the Clippers fizzle out of the NBA
Playoffs in six games to the Dallas Mavericks. We're going to talk about how
that all sucked. We're going to talk about uh, I don't know where
the team maybe goes from here. We want to thank everyone who's listening.
Well, I think when he was watching over on YouTube dot com slash at
Clippers podcast and listening where we get your pods, Adam Will before we kind
of get into the nitty gritty and perhaps build our own soapboxes that we stand
on top of for periods of time. How have the last two days been?
I know we did the double dip, a very fun double dip after
the Clippers lost. Will and I were at the game with the thirty five,
which was very fun. Shout out to everybody came up to that.
You do it, eh, I'm down about it. I've been under the
weather. I was just telling you guys off the air that night Friday night.
Appropriately so of course I come down with the flu after the Clippers get
bounced. It was like my body was trying to fight back the sickness that
eventually caved and gave in. And so I've been dealing with it the last
couple of days here. Not that big of a deal, don't warn me,
but uh, it's just it's tough. I was watching the game today
intently, the game seven Calves and Orlando Magic, just thinking to myself,
kind of wish we had a Clippers game today. It's gonna be weird watching
the rest of the playoffs without them. Once again. It's just I don't
know, I'm obviously it's it's too raw still for me, it's still it's
still too soon. But I think this will help. This will be therapeutic,
just being able to talk about with you guys. Yeah, I agree,
Will How are you doing? We had a very therapeutic post game five
episode that people really like that was very fun. Yeah. Well, I
mean it's hard because I've kind of been I've had a really busy couple of
days, so I haven't had like a whole lot of time to like process
and let it sink in. But it was exactly what I needed. I
just like, after being so invested in this team and obviously the way things
ended, I needed a little bit of a little bit of a breakaway.
But I'm excited to talk about it. I'm excited to get into it.
And yeah, hopefully we can find some silver linings and some things to look
forward to. Yes, I hope that too. Before we talk about which
Clippers disappointed us the most and which ones maybe did not disappoint us the most,
we got to tip our caps to the MAVs. They beat us.
They were a better constructed team for this series, it seems partially. Oh,
I just also think like physicality and effort wise, I mean, there
was especially in those last two games that was not like that was not even
what the shorthanded Clippers are capable of. So I think that that was pretty
disappointing. I agree with that they didn't maximize what they had available to them.
Credit the MAVs. Of course, they beat a Clippers team that didn't
have Kawhi Leonard, and when they did, he was probably a liability out
there, especially in Game three, which is how he looked because he couldn't
be himself at all. I've never seen Kawhi look like that. Before in
a ball game. Game three, Game two I felt like was a very
wittable game we talked about. That was one that got away from them.
That was one that was right there that they probably should have won. But
Dallas is moving on. I don't know if they feel like they slayed the
dragon finally being the Clippers or not. Is it in all a positive take
that well, at least the Clippers don't have to get swept by SGA and
the OKC Thunder, the guy they traded for two one three, because that,
to me would be I asked you guys, probably I don't know,
three or four months ago, what would be worse losing to the Lakers in
the playoffs or losing to the OKC Thunder and SGA and Chuck emeally said,
oh, the Lakers by far. But then it was like, whoa,
you know, it would be a full circle moment of the guy they traded
beating them. That's the only way I could see this being worse right now,
if you're looking for any positives, I almost that would have been very
difficult to see. Yeah, that would have hurt. And I guess we're
rooting for the Thunder and the next I don't know. I'm not I'm rooting
for everyone to lose. I guess, Yeah, what do we want to
talk about kind of the effort over the series? Do we want to talk
about individual players? Because there's been a lot of discourse recently amongst Clippers fans
about Paul George's performance in these I mean, I think we got to start
there, right, It starts and ends there. You know. It's one
of those things I thought was so interesting was basically in every pre and post
game conference, Jason Kidd talked about how it's up to these two guys,
like, these two guys got to get it going. The you know,
these two guys you really held like without throwing them under the boss obviously he
and Luca. Yeah, yeah, he held his two stars accountable. Uh
and I'm not saying that Tyler didn't do that, but certainly, I mean
I thought one out other than one outlier stinker of a performance, we did
not get that same kind of like accountability from Paul George, both in his
statements and his overall performances. Yeah. The statements, Yeah, post game
five, some of the quotes were very frustrating, just things like I think
the beauty of it is the older I've gotten, the less pressure it's been.
Honestly, Uh you know when you yeah that show is all right,
like you live with the results. I'm not out there to prove nothing to
nobody. But what I do want to do is just go up and show
up for my teammates. Then he went six to eighteen in game six and
got outscored by PJ. Tucker in the second half. Uh so PG had
and we talked this. He was in position to be like, you guys
have money to give me, I'm gonna show you why I deserve the max
contract, which there's no way that's been offered to him or it would have
been signed. Huge opportunity. It was right there. James Harden, who
we are going to talk about, had his ups, had his downs,
but did a lot more to show that he should probably get a contract.
Paul George showed like, dude, like, so you're not worried about it,
your your borderline, wearing a shirt that says no worries with the chakabra
on it, and you shot. You've averaged nineteen points without Kawhi Leonard.
You don't take twenty field goals a game, like what is It's horrible.
This is not the ad that we want for Paul George. Every narrative about
Paul George was perpetuated by himself. In this series. Every negative narrative about
Paul George came true in some ways. And this is about as bad as
it could be. He had the great Game four, especially in the first
half. The second half three pointer that probably won them the game was at
least the biggest shot of the game. I thought Game one he was very
good overall. Outside of that, and because we're talking about just two games
there, I don't think he was a top three player for the Clippers in
this series. For your number two guy to not be a top three player
in a series without Kawhi Leonard is pretty inexcusable. And I love Paul George
and I've defended him, and I have gone back to twenty twenty one and
what he did for this team, dragging them to the Western Conference Finals and
playing big and big moments. The Game five in Utah, the Game five
against Phoenix, it wasn't just Terrence Mann in that Game six. It was
a lot of Paul George to get them over the hump into the Western Conference
Finals against Utah. I can't believe I can let a bad shooting series go
a little bit more, a lot more actually, if you actually take the
shot, if you actually put them up to only take eighteen shots in Game
six and I think he had ten in the first half, ten and eleven
or twelve, and he had fourteen points and he ends up with four in
the second half. That just can't happen. There's no possible avenue for you
to win that series. With the way Paul George played, I think James
Harden was obviously better than him. I think if each Zubos was obviously better
than him. I think Terrence Man was better than him in this series.
That's why I'm saying he wasn't a top three player for the Clippers in a
series where they desperately needed him to be, and it was a big moment
for him to show that you're a number two that can slide into that number
one spot that's always been the top from him. When Kawhi is out,
I'll take over well. And I think that's the thing that's so befuddling too,
is just like not even taking the shots, you know what I mean,
Like, I think we could live with the result of a bad shooting
series. It would hurt, you know, it would sting, it would
stink. But like it's so befuddling because it's like we didn't even get to
I don't want to say he didn't try, because I don't believe that either,
but like we didn't even you know, we didn't get his best look.
And I don't know what to attribute that to. If that's a confidence
thing, if that's him being too deferential, I'm sure as a factor of
a combination of all of them, but it would be one thing, like
Adam said, like if he just shot really poorly in this series, which
he did, but you could but you would deal with it, you know
what I mean. But what we got was just that was not the bill
of goods that we were sold. And I think outside of like Game one
and two, he had defensive moments, but I didn't think he put together
a performance that a single performance that made up for his like his offensive liabilities,
or not not even liabilities, but like lack of passiveness. It's passiveness
fifteen point eight field goal attempts per game in the playoffs without Kawhi Leonard,
Like, what the hell would it have been? With Kawhi nine and a
half, Like, well, I mean, no, it's a fair question.
What the it's incredible that and we're gonna talk about where the Clippers maybe
even try and go from here. But these reports coming out that you know,
Barbara wants to run it back and stuff like that, it's like,
so we're gonna get the same We're gonna get the same thing. Like there's
nothing like Adam, like you said, there's nothing for me to believe that
next year is gonna be any different in the playoffs from Paul George, well
before we get yeah, more big picture with that stuff, just Paul George
not adhering to what's demanded of you in that position. Without Kawhi Leonard,
I can say James Harden did his best and actually he shot forty five percent
from the from the field, he had thirty eight percent three point shooting percentage,
ninety percent from the free throw line. He wasn't great, but he
was more than solid. He or then pulled his own weight out there.
He did his part. He didn't George didn't. He did more than what
we traded him for. Uh, you know, he did more than you
know, really what he should probably be expected to at this stage of his
career. So I do think that that is like one of the one of
the brighter things. And I'm not saying that this is the case, because
I don't believe that at all, But like, if it were a situation
where you want to try to stay under the second apron, you know you'd
still have to move some pieces, But if you're looking at only keeping one
to two, I mean, what the hell do you do with this?
Because you do have a history of Paul George and a really great playoff run,
but you also have some more recent history and that's kind of that's that's
tough to negotiate. What's disappointing to me. What's so disappointed to me is
this was the scenario we talked about during the offseason where if you brought in
James Harden and Kawhiir PG one of those two were out, you'd still have
a chance to win that series. And in a first round matchup, you
definitely had a chance to beat that team. And I know it was a
four or five, but offensively, Luka Dancic had by far his worst series
against the Clippers, and they still weren't able to figure it out. How
to beat this Dallas Mavericks team. To to their credit, I will say,
just like I warned everybody coming in last thirty five games, top ten
defense. They were much better defensively than I think a lot of people figured
they would be. They should have known. I've been screaming about it for
months. Luka Kyrie and Luka Kiri and Kyrie especially I thought, like,
I mean, they were the best defenders out there, but like the way
they elevated their like with what they had to do offensively, the way they
were able to ale. I was told they were going to be food.
They're gonna be food guys. And Derek Jones Junior and PJ Washington they're not
that great. Derek Jones Junior locked up Paul George in this series. PJ
Washington played great defense in this series. So for anyone that tried to downplay
Dallas Mavericks scheduled cream puff schedule they had down the stretch of the season,
well I guess that was completely wrong, huh, because their defense showed up.
It showed up so much that they could get a poor performance from Luka
Doncic and still get out of a first round series. And for all the
people who said Kyrie Irving hasn't been the same without Lebron James in a playoff
series, Well, he was the best player in this series. So hies
given me Christmas? How many people were wrong with their previews coming into this
one. I'm glad we tried to steer him in the right direction and let
him know what could actually happen, and it is what happened in this series.
Unfortunately. Yeah, and kind of do we have anything? I also
thought, because I mean Ali Crow on this one, you know, I
did think that the defensive liability of Luca and Kyrie like it. I didn't
think it would be their undoing, but I did think that it was a
disadvantage. I also thought we were going to get, you know, the
version of this Clippers offense, obviously less Kawhi, but but more what it
looked like in that dominant streak. I did not expect it to crater the
way that it did, and when we talk about it cratering. Do we
have anything more to say really about Paul George other than that we're horribly disappointed
in his actions and how he responded to questions. Well, is this the
point where we ask whether or not they should bring him back or are we
saving that for later with more Oh no, let's talk about that, because
I that is such a difficult question. Can I just say personally, like
this is just on a personal level, I do not want to watch a
root for this dude for another fucking year, Like, I just don't.
I don't want to do it. I'm tired of it. I think we
understand what the end result is going to be, and honestly, I would
take two less good players that are at least accountable. That's it. That's
where I'm at. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like that doesn't
hold a bunch of weight because that it's very frustrating to watch it happen over
and over and over, and the accountability thing is annoying. And I don't
look Tobias Harrison a pick or Tobias Harrison a young and a young asset or
a rotation ready wing. It's just frustrating because he has all the talent in
the world to be one of the best players and shows that here and there
during nights during the regular season some playoff games as well. It just seems
between the years, it just seems between how many shots he's going to put
up in a ball game. Is he gonna be aggressive enough? All you
have to do is a question. Yeah, if it's as simple as just
being aggressive enough, I don't. He just turned thirty four. That's not
fixable at this point. That's not going to change. This is who he's
going to be the rest of his career. He's gonna be up and down.
He's gonna be hot and cold. Apparently he's not good enough to be
a second option, can slide in and be a number one option even while
having James Harden next to him to beat the Dallas Mavericks when Luca had a
bad series. That to me, that's really hard to justify to not understand
where Will's coming from, because a lot of fans I've been seeing and hearing
from feel a similar way. And obviously I'm talking like this is like on
an emotional level basketball wise, if you're looking at like pure, like on
paper roster talent, there's not somebody out there better than Paul George. So
I would totally understand if they ran it back hoping for a different result.
But I'm just saying this, this is just me personally, emotionally speaking,
I really don't want to root for this dude for another year. He doesn't
have anything to prove per him. He has said that. I mean,
he's a Hall of Famer. He's not wrong. He doesn't have to prove
anything, but he's wanting to like to counter that. I will also go
to Paul George and all the legacy talk he had coming into this season in
multiple interviews talking about winning, cures everything, and when he got his last
extension, guys, do you know what he said? Do you know what
he said? The reporter asked, so, what do you feel like you
got to get back to the organization? He said, A ring. I
own a ring. I owem malariyo b And I'm not putting it on him
because they haven't necessarily won a ring. You're not going to win it without
Kawhi Leonard. But again, did you play to the best of your abilities,
to your talent level in a situation in this first round series against this
Dallas team, Because I think if he did, they're moving on and maybe
Kawhi never comes back and they don't have a chance to win it all still.
But I don't think they peaked or hit their ceiling for what they had
available to them. So you're saying, do you want Tom back? I
think the Clippers. I think that's this is what sucks, as the Clippers
are going to bring him back because that oh yeah, real like realistically,
I mean, chock it up. I would. I would be pretty shocked
if Paul George is not on the roster opening night and we're gonna go through
the same thing most likely, unless something crazy happens next year with the playoffs.
Well, if he continued to ask for a Max, I don't know
about that. Yeah, if he continue to after this, I don't know
about that. If he gives a little bit back to the Clippers so they
can have a little bit more room to operate with the salary cap like Kawhi
Leonard did, then there's probably a conversation to be had. I guess.
I guess it'll be that, yeah, because you got to have the same
point too, because if you know, if the conversations are Max or bust
Man, even though you have a new arena that you have to fill out,
and you know there's not talent wise, a better like realistic free agent
out there or anything you might you know, you still might have to walk
away if you're the Clippers. Well, the problem is, say you lose
him in the forty five million he's making right now and he doesn't opt into
the last year of this deal, which he won't because he's going to get
a longer term deal with more guaranteed money. It's a smart thing to do,
of course, but it's not like you can just slot somebody in from
the outside. You can overpay your own guys to go over the cap with
birds rights. That's why they could afford to give James Harden so much more
money. Same thing with Paul George. It's not either or they could have
Paul George, or they could have Demarta Rosen or somebody like that, who's
I think is going to be a free agent this summer. So they're in
a really tough spot where there aren't a lot of options. That's what it's
looking like this summer. Even though Paul George just had that playoff series,
even though he just turned thirty four years of age. Do you have a
better alternative? I don't know if they do. Why. And that's what
you're saying intellectually that you know he's on this roster. Ope at night,
I'm just saying that, as like a fan and as a human being,
I would be fine taking a step back, taking a step back to at
least take a stab at something different, take a stab at a different outcome.
And if you do go with the logic irrationale of there's a new arena,
they have to sign these guys, they have to sell seats. Yes,
Paul George plays seventy plus this year. He and Kawhi Leonard are obviously
unreliable when it comes to availability. Paul George is unliable also when it comes
to playing to his potential, Like how many games do you know you're going
to get out of them to fill seats in the arena. Even if guys
are signed that are big names, if they're not out there on the court,
what does it matter. I hope he can stay healthy. He obviously
had the knee and the groin issue this year, and for two months he
didn't look like himself. Two whole months, so Paul George looked rough,
and then he looked much better, and then basically his numbers in this playoff
series went back to where he was when he was looking that bad for about
two months due to injury. Here's something later that he was dealing with something
probably don't even get us. Was fine. Yeah, but as an excuse,
I can see like there's obviously we're gonna talk about this later. There's
no exit interviews from the Clippers, because why would they do that If you're
new to this team, they don't give you any information. And the fact
that there's no exit interviews, I think personally just me is insane and really
shows a lack of accountability by most people in me see not like a league
requirement. I think they might be fine. I don't know. Yeah.
Uh. The people keep bringing up a sign in trade guys that hard caps
the team that brings him in, So no contender is gonna be able to
do that. They're already over the cap. And then he wouldn't sign off
on going to a bad team and a sign and trade, so it doesn't
work. The NBA has put so many restrictions out there with the recent CBA
agreements that it's not happening. That's a pipe dream. You're not gonna be
able to trade his fifty million for another fifty million dollar player with some other
team. That's not an option. So with Kawhi Leonard already on this three
year extension and you extending the two to three era because of that, do
you have a more realistic way to still be competitive and to still have a
shot if everything breaks your way, if everything goes right, if players who
are injury prone when they're younger somehow get less injury prone as they get older,
which never happens for the most part. I I don't know. It's
a really tough sell right now with people and their disbelief of whether or not
Kawhi Leonard can ever stay healthy because of what happened again this season. It's
a really hard sell and I understand it, and it's really unfortunate, and
nobody is more frustrated than Kawhi Leonard. Everybody is so disappointed that this happened
again. But the reality is four straight year where he either wasn't available to
start a playoff run or to end a playoff run. And I don't know
how at this point you could think it's realistic that he's able to go through
the grind of the regular season and then also make it through thirty five forty
playoff games whatever would be to go through and win the NBA Finals. I
just don't when he's about to turn thirty three. Yeah, it's I guess
I admire people who are you riding or dying with this big three, But
it's just gonna be the same thing next season unless there's a big thing that
happens in the middle of the season where it's going to be these three dudes
terrenceon Zoo in either have already gotten extensions or in contract years because terrenceon Zoo
are unrestricted free agents after next season. And if I were them, they
can hold the Clippers over a barrel for what they can ask for. They're
available. I was availability for like, Yeah, they've done every single thing
the team has asked them, which has been a lot. They were,
as Adam pointed out, probably the second and third best players in this series
for the Clippers. They've shown they've gotten better, Like I can see them
not wanting to be here after the frustration of of this. I'm waving my
hands for those of you listening just at the last five years, Like it's
it's a it seems very difficult to play for this Clippers team as difficult it
is to watch it with the injuries and everything. It also seems incredibly difficult
as players remember all they were told Midweek Kawhi wasn't gonna play, and then
they were all they were asked about it, and they all kind of gave
these weird answers because the way that the team handles the media, the lesser
guys have to take questions the stars would usually get, which I think something
that has to affect some guys. You have to answer questions is not only
lesser in a bad way, but you know what I'm saying, like lesser
in terms of the rotation, Like these aren't the stars. They shouldn't be
answering questions about the stars like that. Like it's yeah, they're not taking
up a thirty year cap. Yeah, it's a frustrating place to play.
And I'm just like, I'm so nervous for these next couple of seasons because
it's just and if you're like a if you're like a contender or even a
fringe contender, I mean I would have my eye on whatever's happened with that
Terrance, Like Terrance Man contract expect for Zoo Zoo is like he's a four
for eighty guy. I don't think that's crazy at all, Zoo. It's
between him and Harden for the best two players in this series. And maybe
the only reason it's not definitive with a Visa Zoo bots is because they don't
give him the ball in that to clearly be the most important guy or the
most impactful guy in this series. Like I think he definitely would have been
had he got more opportunities. With how much uncertainty is going on with your
stars and their availability, I agree with you, it's very difficult for these
young guys who have had to take on different roles for years now, who
have had to fill in the cracks for years now. They were supposed to
be those guys that you know, do the dirty work, not have to
lead them in scoring sometimes or you know the twenty twenty two season or twenty
one twenty two season, no Kawhi Leonard, Paul George only in plays thirty
one games, Reggie Jackson and Marcus Morris, where two winning scores. I
think like that type of stuff. You could say, one of these guys
done, you know what I mean? Like what could you have? Like
what have you possibly asked of them? What goal or benchmark have you set
that they have not that they have not hit or exceeded. Yeah, I
do feel for them I wonder though, just like with coach lou and I'm
sure we're gonna talk about this coming up with the reporting on him getting a
long term deal, if you just still, because of the locker room and
the relationship you have with the organization that the Clippers still have by far the
inside track to retain them, you know. Yeah, And we're still getting
a little bit of ahead of ourselves because it's their extension eligible, but they
are not unrestricted free agents this summer or anything like that. I would throw
out this possibility. And if they go and run it back with Paul George
and James Harden because there really aren't better options, I totally understand that it
makes sense to some degree, but I was running through where the salary cap
is projected to be this upcoming year around one, and then I was adding
up the Clipper's salary if James Harden and Paul George were both off the books,
and that would leave them with about twenty to twenty five million dollars to
play with. What about the possibility it may be unlikely, but spreading money
out and trying to build a competitive team that can get by without Kawhi Leonard
and when he's there, he blends in and he's the hammer, and you
still have a chance to contend when he's available, but when he's not,
you still are at least hanging maybe a few games above five hundred type of
thing with younger players, more available players because they're younger, less injury prone
guys. The Toronto Raptors. You look at that situation now and at the
time, you know, I think Kawhi missed something like seventeen games during that
regular season twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, and they got by with going smashing success.
But God, they had Kyle Lowry, they had Siakam, they had
Marcus Soohl, they had Fred van Vliet, they had serge A Baka that
was a really, really good core and some of those guys were just coming
into their own. Would the Clippers have enough or could they create something where
you could at least just stay competitive and do a little better than tread water,
and then when Kawhai's there, boom, you could really be running on
all cylinders because this team hasn't been good enough when Kawhi is not there.
For the most part, understand it is Kawhi Leonard. I'm just saying,
can you have some of that fun, spirited young play youth and athleticism gets
you by, and then when Kawhi is able to go, he just adds
to it and it's a hand in glove fit and bam, you have a
chance to contend. I just don't know that it's that easy, like in
the West. I don't think it's that I'm just asking like no, I
mean, I think probably less likely, but I think that that's an ideal
situation. I just think like finding that balance, especially when you don't have
draft picks, either you know, to get guys for cheap contracts or to
make a deal happen. Well, I only bring it up in a difficult
prospect. The only you're right to actually commit to it, which means not
going with Paul George and James Harden. Yeah, I don't know. If
Paul George kept playing hardball, I think that's on the table. I think
that's a possibility. James Carden's about to turn thirty five. Do we think
there's a world where James Harden gets a like an insane offer of the Clippers,
just like it would make sense for them to not match. I don't
think so. You don't think so, because that's what I had hoped for.
My dreamt when the hard and trade happened, was that he played so
well the Clippers, you know, go to the Western Conference finals, they
go to the finals whatever that then he's offered such a crazy contract that it
wouldn't even have made sense for the Clippers or been possible for them to match
it. That was my dream after I mean, look at the contenders with
cap space. I mean, he's not going back to Philly. I don't
think that. I don't know that New York would really be that interested in
that prospect. I mean, I think that he could work next to Brunson,
but if you got money to play with, I don't know that.
I don't think that's like timeline wise, it just doesn't really make a lot
of sense, right, and he needs the ball in his hand. And
look, I guess I'm dreaming a little bit with this retool situation where you
could have a hole is greater than some of its parts. Twenty eighteen twenty
nineteen Light Clippers team that won forty nine games before they entered the two point
three era. I just I see it as one of two scenarios, or
maybe there's three maybe they would completely try to bottom out, but it doesn't
sound like that something Steve Balmer is ever going to do with this team,
with this franchise, or they just run it back, or they try something
different, like next season you get Kai Jones and Bones Highland getting a bunch
of minutes next to Terrence Man and Deviatza zubas Bro. How are you ever
gonna find out about these guys if you actually get young players run. Part
of the problem with this era is they've never given it a big enough chance.
Not playing Bones this season was a problem that kills you in the playoffs
when Rusk goes eight for forty two and you feel like you don't have another
option out there, literally eight for forty two the last five games. It
kills you. When I know Kai Jones was picked up late, but just
for argument's sake, you have to play some of these young guys like Kobe
Brown getting that shot in November and actually starting to look a little bit better.
Well, if they continued that way, maybe PJ. Tucker isn't starting
and I must win Game six, so I want to That's a great segment.
We got to take a quick audio break for the ads because I want
to talk about the coaching and the develop We want to talk like coaching the
development for the Clippers, because this this Playoffs also showed you watch this,
you watch these other playoff games, the Clippers roster is getting waxed athletically by
every other team in the playoffs. Right now, coming up, we're gonna
do We're gonna be talking development and tylus stuff after this break in three two
one. All right, welcome back into clips and dip. If you watch
this over on YouTube, that's at Clippers Podcast YouTube dot com, slash at
Clippers Podcast. We never less, but we're talking a little bit here about
sort of our overall game six re review, uh, sort of some wider
picture stuff about the Clippers and what the future looks like. And I guess
I you know, we know the Taylu extension situation. I think it was
the best available option. But Charles, you have some thoughts on some of
the coaching and development uh following this game six. Yeah, so kind of
just what Adam was talking about. Right, Like PJ. Tucker starts in
game six, which all of us, I think felt like we had just
taken a revolver and em the clip into the top of our foot with because
it was just like, we know how that's gonna go. He's not a
guy who should start. He's not like, yes, he outscored Paul George
in the second half, but that's incredible and very depressing. But there was
no Daniel Tice. There was no counter for when Mason Plumley was the worst
player on the floor at sometimes like I was calling him out after Game two.
Plumby can't play anymore in this series. He had one good stint for
three minutes fourth quarter Game four. That's it. And somehow Daniels Tice never
saw the floor and that goes and that's so weird because Daniel Tye got a
bunch of minutes in the season and was seemingly ahead of Mason Plumley for good
reason. But we well that was due to the injury though, right true,
But then he also just was playing better with him. And then we
get to Game six and PJ. Tucker starts, and everyone like, you
can't tell me that you had hope when you saw PJ. Tucker in the
starting lineup. I'm just the proverbial you. Everyone listening and stuff like.
But that goes back to no bones rust was horrible. There's a bunch of
weird rush reports that came out too. That's I don't know, but like,
and I don't know if that's a Tie thing or a Lawrence thing,
because we've heard reports that they're bringing Tie, they want to extend Tie,
but nothing about Lawrence so far. Yeah, And I would say, like
that speaks to like sort of the dire situation really of this roster, Like
you have to have guys on the floor that that you're not comfortable with.
And it's a twofold issue. Like obviously the front office, you know,
not putting together the best collection of players is an issue, but like,
the lack of development is huge. And one of the reasons the Clippers looked
so good for that stretch that they did is we were getting amazing games out
of the three players that we've somehow managed to develop. In addition with Kawhi
Leonard and Paul George both being available, like that a mere coffee was insane
during that stretch. Abatza Zubats had a double double, like damn near every
game, you know, and Terrence, you know, continue to be great,
shot really well during that stretch. So it's you know, it's not
like it's a surprise. None of this stuff should be a surprise, even
when you go all in like the Clippers did, and we've seen other teams
do in the past, like you can't forget about all those moves around the
margins. And we came in this season and I was saying, the only
chance for this like championship window to be extended is to get the best possible
play out of the young Gish not even fully young, the young Gish guys
that you have on this roster. Well, it's really hard to go all
in with vets, and when some of those breakdown, your break glass in
case of emergency move is to go with an even older veteran in PJ.
Tucker, instead of giving Kobe Brown a look because he just hadn't played at
all, hardly at all this year after November. If he had got more
time, then maybe he's the guy that gets an opportunity when nothing's working for
you. But then again, I don't know how daniel Tye doesn't get run
before it comes to PJ. Tucker. I don't know how daniel Tye did
not get to fill in some of those minutes when it beats Zubats was on
the bench, especially because Daniel Gafferd's not that big. Against Lively maybe more
of a problem, but against Daniel Gafford or against Maxie Cleebland when they went
small, how's Daniel Tys not a decent option then a guy who I know
it's on low volume, but shooting thirty nine percent a low volume is still
worlds apart from a guy who takes zero threes and can't stretch the floor.
And Mason Plumbley and Daniel Tyss is actually where he should be, whether or
not. He gets dumped on sometimes and he's too small to be able to
defend the rim. He doesn't make his many defensive mistakes on rotations, and
he could guard better on the perimeter when Luka Doncis pulls you out there or
Kyrie Irving than Mason Plumley could. That move was baffling to me with what
he had given them this season when they were in a really bad spot,
when Mason Plumbing went down and he overachieved, he definitely outplayed expectations. For
him to not get rewarded with some playoff minutes that is hard to fathom and
understand. And how do we feel I mean ty Lewitz. Seems like the
Clippers want him to be the coach for an extended period of time. There
was the report that he's going to be extended. What other if he'll have
us It's kind of what it is, kind of like what I have to
stand And I know, I mean, I know that we're all talking about
we weren't fans of how this rotation, these rotations went out, and I
just think that this has got to have been the most frustrating tenure for Tyleru.
Like we saw how exasperated he was at times answering the same damn questions
he has no answer to, you know, like he it's not up to
him, like the availability of his stars. And regardless of how you feel
about him in this series, I do think there were things that could have
been changed, but not by much, you know what I mean. There
just wasn't the guys that you can trust and rely on. I mean,
you bring up Tys. I think that's a valid one. Bones I want
to believe, like I want to believe that that could have been a difference
maker. But he had to get a run in the regular season probably right.
Bulls had to start playing some of the regular season and with Russ there
and needing minutes, it wasn't gonna happen. And some of it's on bones
because when he got minutes, he had the great game of Chicago, he
was okay against New Orleans, and then he just checked out. Once James
Harden came back, like, oh, I'm not going to be the starter
anymore, I guess. I guess I'm not gonna work his hard out there
because the effort, I mean, his shoulders dropped. You could see it.
It was visible. That was really disappointing. So some of it is
on him. And I love coach Lou and I don't think you have a
better option than him, And I don't think it's a coincidence that that story
dropped right after Ham was letting go because of all the rumors going on with
the Lakers. But I also don't understand I was tweeting it at the time.
You have to start normOn Powell in the second half. You can't start
PJ again in the third quarter after Norm. Just the Norm Powell Powell Rangers
alternate lineup got them back into it and had it tied at fifty two and
a half. It was a tie game. They were right there, and
the third quarter starts and they're just falling all over themselves and turn the basketball
over and PJ had one of those turnovers too. That made no sense to
me. So we just and this is I think this goes back to what
I was saying earlier too, is you know, we've seen flashes of Tyler
really coach his ass off and make a lot of great things work. And
just like with the Stars, we just have to hope that it works out
next year. I think that's it. I think when Tie has everyone available,
you're gonna get the best version of him that as a championship winning head
coach that gives you a chance to out maneuver everybody else. When he doesn't
have all his pieces, especially someone like Kawhi, then tinkering Tie happens and
he may do some stuff or may have some blind spots for players that you
disagree with. That that might be it. And but the like, I
guess my point is just like for this year with the with the guys gone
like the like, what is there to tak like? I mean, what
is there really to tinker with? And I agree with going with the power
Rangers, which had worked for you that's a little baffling, but like overall,
like you know, there is not much to tinker with. There's not
a lot of guys in this rotation that you would trust in playoff minutes.
Having to take kJ Tucker in with that, with the hard and trade was
such a big I mean wait in that for this roster right, Like I'm
not saying, you know, like having to take him, he's gonna opt
in. Russ is gonna opt into his year too. So now we have
these two guys too, I'm assuming we're gonna try and trade because Russ talk
about another guy I don't want to watch for another year on this team,
Russell Westbrook. Sorry, everybody who really loves Russ. He was horrible in
this playoffs and he didn't cost the Clippers any games, but he sure as
hell didn't help him win any And for someone, I think it's arguable that
those those Russ plumbly like as soon as two guys came in, dude,
it was like it was And I don't want to hear anything from Russ stands
trying to justify a guy going eight for forty two by well, it was
the wrong lineup, so or you gotta give him more run. You gotta
let him take care of his mistakes or give him a chance to make up
for them. Eight for forty two guys was the worst shooting percentage over the
stretch of five games in a playoff series of all time. And that shouldn't
be shocking because eight for forty two is in fact that bad, unbelievably bad.
And he's out there with another big they can't stretch the floor. If
you're wondering why they're all that's been the defense, right, is that everyone's
like, well, they're not putting Russ in the right spots. Well,
you got to cater to Russ. You got to minimize his weaknesses and maximize
his strengths. You got to cater around Russell Westbrook. How are you supposed
to how are you supposed to make? Like, what is an offense around
that? What does catering around Russ have to do with him smoking all these
layups? What does it have to do with him missing layups? It's one
thing to say that there's not enough space for him to get to the basket.
No, when he did get to the basket, he still couldn't make
them. He couldn't make them there's no perfect lineup for a guy who can't
make layups anymore? What was he in Game four, Game five, two
for seven in their sectaria at the rim? Like yeah, uh, and
I wanted Russ to be a spark, but it never happened. Never even
it was it sparked the opposition him getting into it with Dallas in Game three
and getting ejected. Who did that help? It helped the Dallas Mavericks.
Their crowd was more on top of them. They completely won that psychological battle.
He's also from things scuttle butt and things here and there, someone who
very much wants his stats in playing time. Right now, I know that
there's this. He is a great team guy for the most part, but
there's very much a reality where Russell Westbrook wants things for Russell Westbrook on the
court, and like you can, I don't know, there's just he had
to be his defense. But then he refuted that, saying like that is
what happened at all, Like the team propped up Russ to be the pr
machine, because that's what like, it's it's just we had to cater it
around. We're supposedly having to cater around Russ to make his offense better,
and we have to cater around him to make him feel comfortable. He's in
his thirties, where this is an old team. This isn't a Russ who's
in line for a mass contract. We are old. And by the way,
his style of basketball never won anything when he was in his prime,
So what are we doing here? He won MVPs when they're like a sixth
seed, like because he averaged a triple double. It's not it doesn't help
you, Like he raises your floor. But I'm not so sure he ever
has raised anyone's ceiling. One one first round series outside of when when Kevin
Durant wasn't there one and that was in the bubble with James Harden on Houston.
But do you think they trade him? Well, do you think they
package PJ and Russ and try and get him off the roster because that's the
only tradeable. We have no picks. We better not trade. I mean,
like, who's taking on those contracts? Like what are you talking about
in a trade a shitty team. I don't like just taking on like without
an asset, like with without an asset, Like what are you trading?
Yeah? No, I pick up the phone, right now and someone says
I'll give you PJ. Tucker and Russell Westbrook. Before you even hear the
end of that conversation, you're hanging up the phone. I don't know if
Michael Winger in Washington we want to bring him back there. They liked him,
he helped get them to the first round. I don't know. Is
there some sentimental team out there that is willing to bring in Russell well right,
celt tickets I I if those reports are true, I don't know how
they can keep him around and have James Harden at the same time. Right,
He's Paul George's friend. That's how they keep him around. It's been
it's been Paul George's league of super friends for the Clippers for a couple of
seasons. That's the thing that's so crazy, too, is I do feel
like, look, you can have your you can have your criticisms of Lawrence
Frank I do too. That's fine, that's fair. But we have catered
everything to Paul George and Kawhi. We have done everything that they asked us
to do. So for Paul George to not show up in the way that
he did not show up in this like how much more trust can we give
you? How much more can we both both to your confidence? We have
done every single thing you have asked, even when it is actively bad for
this roster, like we have done it for you in the hopes that you
would show up. And where are you? He's in the garage. They
definitely have put in the support group that has been asked for by the stars.
And when Lawrence Frank came out after the trade dayline last year and talked
about the type of player he was looking for, the type of point guard
who didn't have massive deficiencies on one end or the other, it clearly seemed
like this was pointed towards this is why we don't want Russell Westbrook. This
is why we don't want this player. They kept campaigning for him, they
ended up getting him. Russ is a fan favorite, He is beloved by
his teammates. Yeah, good dude. I like Russell Westbrook. I don't
know if this is a good fit anymore, if those reports are true.
I and they want to bring back James Harden too, so that means Russell
Westbrook is still coming off the bench. Is that tenable? How can you
go down that path again? The heart the line Bones like seriously and that
he needs to be behind Bones in the rotation. And I'm not saying that
Bones is like gonna be incredible or necessarily have a breakout year, but you
have to try. They have to see what they have with Bones. They
have to see what they have with Bones. The Laurence Frank part guard quote
is so much worse looking at it Us forever where like he had to completely
backtrack the entire like mission statement of what this team was and the players that
they were looking for because of Tyler and Paul George. This quote was if
there was a point guard that could be in our top eight or nine,
we looked at those guys, someone who what we played off the foard defensively,
play on ball, but not be so ball dominant. Gotta be able
to shoot is the end of that quote. Gotta be able to shoot.
And they went with quite literally, I think the worst shooting point guard.
They thought they could get Mike Conley or Kyle Lowry. Probably it didn't happen,
even some reports of Kyrie irving at that time. It didn't happen.
And Paul George came out postgame and said, get us Russ Tylers. What
did Tyler say? Said something crazy too. He was like, you know,
we tried, he tried his best, but he couldn't get us who
we needed, or something like that. That's just so clearly about if Russ
is back, I'll support them. Any of these guys back, I'll support
them their Clippers. I'm all in. I'm with it right now. You
have decisions to be made. You do have options at this point, not
a lot, but yes, there are a couple. I think that's a
good that's a good segue though, to go into kind of like what's next
for like we're gonna take a quick ad break and come back about that,
but like, what is what do we what are we doing? Uh?
What are we doing to como after these ads? Three two welcome back in
It's season two episode seventy three of Clips and Dip, I'm out of Masland.
We got Chuck Mockler and Will Updyke. As we do the Danis Scully
like autopsy on this Clipper season and short lived playoff run. I want to
believe that the Clippers window is not shut in the two and three era,
but guys, h I think it starts with Kawhi Leonard. If he's not
available, they can't win a championship. So can he ever be available?
Apparently he's playing for Team USA this summer. He's scheduled too, but we
don't know after inflammation for over a month, what could come out with the
right knee. When he looked way worse in Game three after trying to play
through it game in game two of this series, How concerning is it to
you because the one thing agree, well, yeah, but three is an
all time low for me as a Clippers fan, not even the loss,
just like the way and I again, I don't blame Kawhi. Obviously,
you know he was doing he was doing his best out there, like I
give him all the credit in the world, But watching that game and where
he was at, that was an all time low for me as a fan.
I don't think he should have played, to be honest, or at
least after the first stint when you saw him out there not being able to
dribble the basketball, that was crazy. That was why you brought it up
with that hanging on the rim because he didn't want to like like take the
impact down on his knees, Like dude, that I don't know that scarred
me. That scarred me, to be perfectly honest with you, it hurt
to watch. And I had a really I had a really depressing thought about
the Clippers before Game five when we were at UH Staples. I was watching
the pregame stuff like the just the pop and the they're shooting the T shirts
and they're they're doing the announcements, and it just felt like watch it was
like like watching a fake, like stage production. It just didn't feel that
any of what we wanted to happen was possible or just even within reach.
Because a Kauhi was hurt, we had seen some incredibly just rough performances in
terms of you know, accountability and and stuff like that, and it just
felt like a house of cards, Like I was just watching something where and
I and this was this was a very I was just like I'd never felt
that watching the Clippers to this extent before, but it was just like none
of this is like I'm watching the Knicks. I mean, imagine guy like
Isaiah Hernstein was still on this team. We'd be having a completely different conversation
and you're just and I was just watching it was just like this ship is
just like it's a sick joke. Yeah, I think they can win,
but it's just not it's all so fragile. Not to get nihilsiolistic with it,
but it's all it was. It's just too fragile to work. It's
too fragile to work. What's happened with Kauhi is like the fate from basketball
gods, year in and year out, especially this season. Last year too,
with how good he looked heading into that series against Phoenix and then doing
the meniscus in Game two after he had won them game one, but sixty
eight games this year couldn't have looked better. Most dumbs he had had in
a season was all the way back, and then some from the ACL tear
in twenty twenty one. Everything he was saying all year long, with the
messaging of I want to take this team to a place they've never been before,
and how it just seemed like there was unfinished business and this was it
and Kawhi was going to get them there and looked very capable of doing so.
Thought he should have finished top five and MVP. I don't know where
it ended up, but he didn't finish top three, obviously, and some
of that was just because he was out at the end of the year.
Uh and the Clippers had that two months soon where they were about five hundred.
But Kawhid never looked better, literally had never looked better. For him
to get hurt after the Charlotte game and to only get two more opportunities and
look like a shell of himself in a playoff series. It's on one hand,
I don't know if this is cognitive dissonance. On one hand, it's
completely unbelievable. On the other it's completely predictable, like, yeah, anything
that can't go wrong will go wrong for the Clippers. And this is part
of the curse talk and everything, which of course I don't believe in.
It's just he's got a bad right leg, right knee, whatever it is.
And what I worry about is obviously this injury. You isolate that I'm
concerned because they compound and it takes more off of him, and there's you
know, even a worst chance that he comes back looking like himself like he
had been. But this team in general is gotten so old. And I'm
watching this game yesterday between the Timberwolves and the Denver Nuggets, and I'm thinking
to myself, these stars are able to have the same pop in the first
quarter as they had in the fourth quarter. Where the Clippers don't just age
as a series moves along, they age in the same game from the start
to the finish, where they can't make the same basketball movements. Whereas Jokis
has the most unbelievable cardio I guess because he's in Denver. For a guy
that size, he never seems to get tired. Ant's twenty two and has
as much bounce in the fourth quarter as he does in the first as a
KD with that dunk and shoots, and he shoots the damn ball, mid
range, defense, everything. Jamal Murray's still relatively young and obviously a killer
in fourth quarters. That's where he plays his best. And then Paul George
has fourteen points in the first half in Game six and four in the second
half and look gassed by the third quarter, Like how do you overcome this
stuff? It's a young man's league. Even if all these guys are healthy,
they still have an age factor you have to worry about where they slow
down as the game goes along, unlike these other stars. That's what really
concerns me. Yeah, I'm I'm interested to see what your one positive takeaways
later when we on this show. And again, if you're wondering if we're
gonna get information about and we as in Clippers fans, whatever, there's no
exit interviews. If Lawrence Frank decides to do a press conference and talk about
contract extensions, that's what we'll hear. But do you guys want Kawhi to
play fors No, I would be pissed off, and not not like at
Kawhi. I would be pissed off at the luck of it all. I
would be like for Kawhi, I'm like, yeah, you want to win
a gold medal, I'll go win a gold medal whenever. Cool, But
I'm like the luck of it would it would make me upset at whatever defines
our luck, the big crow, god in the sky or whatever. Like
I it would just hurt. I think maybe it's a better way to screen
as a Clippers fan, right, I mean, I just should he you
know, like him missed a month of the regular season, Like he missed
a month of the regular season and playoffs. I would say, you know,
maybe take three months just completely off or like as off as you can
be from contact to try to get right or you know, or is it
a situation where like keeping you know, bodies in motion stay in motion.
I don't know, but I would say like if he wasn't right to end
this and seemingly outside of games, had no on court contact there for a
month. You know, the off season isn't that long, especially when you're
you know, thirty four. I hurt somebody on the San Antonio Spurs or
former players said this recently that he would tell I think it was the Spurs.
He would tell Tim Duncan and Manu and Tony Parker to not play during
the offseason for their countries because he wanted them, you know, fully loaded
and not gas by the time the regular season starts. Sorry, no,
I don't know. If I don't know who it was, it was an
ancillary teammate. May not even be the Spurs. The idea of you don't
play for your country or play because Kawhy said before he doesn't play five on
five basketball during the summer, and I'm guessing that is because that leaves you
more open and more prone to injury. It's harder work out there. I
mean, I'm having play. Yeah. I I'm glad Paul George, I'm
glad for him. If that's one of his goals to get the gold medal
and stuff, and I'm intrigued to see how he looks out there if he's
able to go. But I have seen a lot of negative sentiment overall sentiment
from fans regarding this because it just feels like, damn man, we haven't
had him in the last four years to finish a playoff run, and that's
more wear and tearing your body. But you know, it's an individual decision
by Kawhi and it's an honor to play for your country and all that,
So it's hard to critique it, of course, and I honestly want to
see how he looks. Yeah, I wouldn't critique it depending on how he
looks. Obviously he's healthy. Go. I mean, do your thing,
do your thing. Regard it's an individual decision. I'm just kind of reading
the room and getting the pulse of Flipper nation throughout all this on Twitter and
on phone calls, and there's just obviously you lose the way they did.
Overall, things are going to be negative right now, but it is hard
to find positives at the moment of how you can salvage this era and still
have a chance to win a championship, right, that's the goal still,
right, Like, I don't want to see a zombie two to three era
where they're not even competing or it's just trying to be the eighth seed and
get in the plan. Like, if they keep this together, it's to
still be a contender, it's to still be a top six seed. But
man, the NBA moves fast, and Okay sees young game better and Minnesota
is getting better, although they have some salary cap issues coming up this summer.
But there's a lot of teams in the Western Conference, especially that you
have to compete with where you know, I don't want to believe that twenty
twenty one was it and that was their window and Kawhi's tearing of the ACL
was really when we look back on this, the end of everything right now,
though, I think it's fair to say this era is completely defined by
injuries and it sucks, and people are saying Lob City was better than this,
and that's that's just crazy. I can't believe we're at this point.
It's so unfortunate. It's so cool. Basketball gods, please hear us,
hear us, Basketball gods, uh, for you are our only hope.
Yeah, I don't know. Will uh do you have anything? I mean,
I know it's it's been tough. I feel like this was a nice
way to process all that bullshit that happened. Do you have anything else before
we head out for this week of the first week of no Clippers basketball.
Uh, let's let let's let's just take some time to to sort of relax
and recuperate. I think, you know, I still think there are some
options and like Adam said, I mean there is still a pathway where they
stay just competitive enough that if you can keep your if you can keep Kawai
healthy, and whichever of the other uh two you have on the rosters where
you know it's it's not crazy. I mean you look at Denver like they
kept running back. I'll be the younger team. But you know, there
is someone to be said about continuity. Sure, there is something to be
said. That's the slogan for next year. There's something to be said about
continuity. Clippers twenty four, twenty five. I love what your point about
resting and relaxing. If everyone could as the opportunity to go catch a fish,
I would say you should go do that. Drop a line in the
water see you get any bites. We are going to be back next week.
We also have a new fun thing we're doing in the off season that
we haven't even told the people about yet. That might be the most positive
part of this offseason, which is we are going to be doing dip reviews
in the off season. Enough people have yelled at us about this, so
you're getting it. You're getting at least one chip review dip review. Excuse
me. I know Adam's excited. Will has had some trepidations. He's made
his feelings known very vocally. But maybe the maybe let's tears the group apart,
maybe it brings us closer. Who knows, We'll be back next week,
Will. Where could everyone find our content if they want to watch us
go through some pretty rough stages of grief. You can watch all of our
lives from the first series, which is a good Yeah. Absolutely, you
can watch somever at YouTube dot com slash at Clippers podcast. We bring these
videos to you. We go live. Who knows we might do a surprise
live in the off season or something. Well, that's the best way to
find us. You can also listen to us forever you get your podcast.
We're on Spotify, Apple Podcasts to your deezer. So yeah, whoever,
whoever you check us out, do stay with us through the off season.
Yeah, they won't all be they won't all be downer pods. It won't
all be like this. It will get better in three hundred and sixty five
days. However, we may have a very similar pod depending how this roster
looks. But before we get out of here, let's give those Clippers fans
just one positive thing, could be about anything. Yeah, please please into
it Dome, into it Dome. The next game they play will be at
the end of it Dome. That will be incredible. I'm very much looking
forward to that. I'm looking forward to Clipper Nation finally having their own home
and really being able to get comfortable in their own home. You know,
I think it's going to make a big difference. The wall is going to
be awesome, the high tech ingenuity that they're going to have there with the
louder you are, the more discounts you'll get in things like that Chuck Mark,
everything else. It's going to be really cool. It's going to be
a very eventful time. And they have guys. You have Steve Balmer,
you have Steve Balmer. With Steve Balmer, there's hope. This is a
franchise that in some ways has only been around for ten years since he became
the owner in twenty fourteen. I tend to look at things that way.
Sometimes there's been a lot of heartbreak in these ten years, but if you
look at it as they started things off with Steve Palmer, there's also been
a lot of success and he's gonna do whatever it takes to get to the
top of the mountain. I believe it's gonna happen someday. And look,
twenty six and five was not nothing. If you want to make the argument
that run it back and you have that built in continuity, maybe you're a
fifty five win team with good health next year and you're right smack dab in
the middle of being a contender in the Western Conference again. And if just
one of these times Kawhi Leonard could be healthy, could be all it takes.
I hope that is what happens. We hope that is what happens too.
I know that was very difficult for you, Adam. Thank you for
giving us the positive vibes. We'll be back next week with some dips and
yeah, probably talking some off season grades, all that good stuff. I
hope everyone has a good week and as always