Hi. My name is Tom Welling. I played Clark Kent on Smallville and
you are listening to Always hold on to Smallville. Welcome to Always hold on
to Smallville. In this podcast, we talked about each and every episode of
the Young Superman show. They we're from two thousand and one to twenty eleven
on the WB and the c W. I'm our host, Zach Moore.
We have three guests with us this week. Eric Folk, what's up?
Eric? Oh, not much? Just happy to be here. Forrest,
Yesnest, what's up Forest? Hi? Zach, It's an honor to be
here. And Brandon what's up? Brandon? Oh? Not much? Happy
to be here? All right, everybody's happy to be here. It's a
good place to be. So, so all you guys I've either met or
have emailed or have contributed to the podcast in some ways. So I wanted
to have an episode just kind of giving back to you guys a little bit
and having us all together. Thought it'd be a fun group This is a
fun group podcast to be on. I think Checkmate is the episode we're talking
about this time, which, you know, not to give away our hand,
but a pretty good episode, y'all. Huh, yeah, I think
so. I didn't have you guys on like isis or something, So you're
welcome. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But uh, you know,
you know, as we do, uh, we can go around and
get some in reductions for you guys. Now, if you guys are on
our social media's I was into our mail bags probably you know some of these
guys. But you know, Eric has his own Smallville account and about a
lot of the graphics on the show. So we'll talk something about that.
Forrest. We met way back in twenty nineteen, was it Forrest, I
believe so at Austin Comic Con, which was called what was that called wizard
World, Yes, spin off of wizard Magazine was it? I don't know,
but that was one of the big conventions that that you know, a
lot of the small vill star's rats. That was fun Smallville Nights as well.
You were you were there then, yeah, that was a good time.
We talked some about that and then Brandon little here was uh and then
Brandon here whatever our new stats guys. Uh. One of the best contributions
ever to the podcast, the always on the small Ville Tally board of things
that I have said or done on the podcast, so that that's that's really
why you're here, Brandon to Ward's you fall that hard work? All right,
well, thank you very much, so keep it up. Uh,
we need all ten seasons. I just kind of know, Zach, are
you gonna just throw them all into this episode while he's here and just pat
those numbers? You know what, I'm not even looking at it. I
don't even think of it. I like that to be organic. So it's
it's not it's not rigged. It's just completely it's it's it's not an act
the things I do and say here. So thanks for that, Brandon.
But you know, let's go around as we do for people are on the
podcast for the first time, to get to know you, for the listeners
to get to know you a bit. I know you're coming from Eric.
Let's start with you. What is your Smallville fan journey? Oh? Man?
So that started back when it first came out. I'd seen most of
season one and then my buddy Justin He's like, hey, you got to
check out this show. A small Vale was like, oh, I've seen
somemep so it's pretty good. And then it really took off from there because
then We got a group of us watching the show every Tuesday and then every
Wednesday, and most of high school we wore Superman T shirts on Wednesdays and
we called it Superman Wednesdays, and then we'd kind of rotate whose house we
went to that night as a group to watch the show, and it was
just super fun. We kept that up for throughout high school, and then
you know, I left for college, and then later a mission for my
church came back, had to catch up, and then everybody was kind of
doing their own thing. But I kept up with it till the end.
And then I met my wife right before the show ended. She watched all
ten seasons with me, and I was like, this is this is awesome.
Yeah. And then we went up to where they failed the show.
Yeah, that that's how I knew. I was like, she's the one.
And then we went up to where they filmed the show and Vancouver,
hit up all the sites and that was a super fun trip. I will
always always be grateful for her for doing that, because it was either she
said either let's go to Hawaii and I was like, or we could go
visit where they filmed Smallville. And she's like, well, my sister lives
there, but on the off chance she moves, we'll go visit where they
filmed Smallville. And then she moved. I was like, yes, so
I definitely got the better end of the deal there. But we had a
good time. It's it's been a lot of fun. And then I remember
going over the do you want me to talk about the Smallville paper stuff or
do you want me to do that later on? Absolutely no to tell you
I'll do that, So tell us about the great it's a great story,
right, and tell us about your small little fan project you've been working on.
How long you have been working on this? Okay? So I remember
they had the small Ville Torch website. I'd go on it periodically, didn't
really think a whole lot of it. But then rewatching the show with my
son when he was in high school, I was like, oh, I
remember that side one for you can still access it, and using the way
back machine, I was able to find the website and I was like,
this would be fun to like put out there because nobody had it, nobody
had access to or like had published it anywhere. I hadn't really been mentioned
anywhere, So I was like, I'm going to just gather all these for
myself. So I did. I took like screenshots of each page that I
could find, and just had like this whole collection. And I had so
the Smallville Torch and the Ledger and then also the Luther Corp. Stuff that
you could access to the time. And then once I had all those,
was like, I bet there's other people probably want this as much as I
do. So that was when I reached out to you and it's like,
hey, do you want some of this? And you were like, sure,
sign me up. So I sent those to you. And then I
remember if as you told me to just put them out there or if that
was something I thought of, I don't know. I'm not gonna you might.
I don't recall exactly either. I remember I was like, oh,
yeah, I keep sending me to these, I'll probably, you know,
I might post them some time. And then I think that's what it was.
You didn't post them like right away, I was like, I'm gonna
put these out there. No, No, you did the right thing too,
because it makes more sense because with me, it's like, you know,
I'm in season, you know, well this has been over the last
couple years, you know, but late in the seasons, I'm like,
hey, you guys, remember the torch. Here's some articles from season one.
I'm glad you did your own thing because then you can get like credit
for it too. I don't be like because people just oh cool, look
something else Zach did, like no, no, no, Eric. So
I'm glad you did in your own thing. And so where can people find
your small Ville papers archive stuff? So I've got them all out on Facebook
right now if you just want to view all of them. And I've thrown
in like actual paper like screenshots of papers and stuff from the show as well.
But then I also have an Instagram one it's just Smallville papers, and
that one I just upload something new every day just to see what happens.
That one's been been. Yeah, you know, way back when I started
the podcast in twenty sixteen, you know Instagram, I mean it was around,
but it wasn't like what it is now, right. I was like,
I don't want to get into that, you know, so I never
like, there's no always on the smavel Instagram. But if I did it,
when I've been falling into that rabbit hole and wait way too much.
But you know, you you try to tie into like hey, look talk
Phil was talking about this. Let me in this podcast, so that's you
know, they gets you some some into like a tie in to post the
stuff from like you know, season three or four whatever. Halfway through season
four, like there's hardly any articles in season four, I was like,
oh, this kind of sucks, like even so yeah that makes sense for
the torch I guess stuff and wow, yeah the last article they have I
think is of the second med gear shower. But oh okay, well that's
what did that make sense? Yeah, so there you go. Well,
yeah, you know, I was never really I wasn't like going to those
sites all the time back in the day, like I was aware of them,
and I remember I remember distinctly there was one and maybe you recall this
because I couldn't find it anywhere. It was like a quote unquote interview with
Pete Ross after the events of Visage where he's like, oh man, I'm
glad it was the weekend or I would have just bled out and died in
the hallway because that was that was a I remember we joked about a lot
of people joked about it. I'm sure we've done the podcast too, where
it's like Pete classically, they would just he would get like two scenes an
episode a lot, and like Tina Girve beats him up and leaves him for
dead in the hallway and there's no follow up, right, And like I
hope Pete's okay, And like good on whoever was writing these back in the
day, like they picked up on that thread. And that's some of the
fun stuff about you know, these articles you've collected Eric, and it is
like kind of fills in some gaps and it's it's a really fun tie in
thing. And like I you know, the market for this, who knows,
right, But like if they ever like put out like a coffee table
book of small alleger articles, I would totally buy it. I'd be We're
gonna have to make our own, we have to put them out. And
anyway, I don't know if I have them all though, Like I've gone
through you know, archives and stuff and found various ones and they had like
so they do, like a front page that had multiple articles on it,
but not all those links worked right. And then there's a small ville website
that had like a link to each article, but that one not all the
links worked. So I don't have all of them, all of them,
but I've got all that I could get. I'm sure you have more than
anyone else. So well, thanks serk. We'll plug that again in the
end so people can go check it out. But sounds great, forest Man
Forrest. We said we met it was the world a few years ago,
now, can you believe it? It's been that long before the world ended
and before times in twenty nineteen per end of the year there and uh NEI
we need it to the Smallville? Was it a small like happy Hour?
I guess they called it. You did small all nights as well, right
first? Yeah? Yeah, so that was that was fun. So to
talk about that for a little bit, like what what's your because I know
Lance and I talked about it on our podcast way back, but like for
people like what is this because I know, you know, Tom and Michael
do these in a lot of conventions. I don't know if they still do
the happy Hour as much. I know they definitely do the Smallville Knights,
But you know, what was your experience there and what was your takeaways?
I'm trying to remember how I even heard that that was all coming together because
it was you know, this has not been a long term con presence.
Yeah, this is all very recent. Yeah, like they that was like
twenty nineteen, was was I think, you know, uh Austin Cohn.
I think that was Tom's first convention. That's when Lance and I went to
watching DC for we like, we got to do it. This is the
one and only time we thought to ever hear Tom Willing. And here we
are five years later and he talks about smubble every week. So this is
in the world people, I don't know, people might not appreciate this in
the world before talk Phlle, this was a very you know, unique situation,
right. I was just gonna say that is even a couple of years
later, what a dramatic shift it's been since Talkville and Tom and Michael being
a little bit more in the public you know sphere reachable over social media.
But no, it was definitely a big deal. And what sealed it for
me is that it wasn't just them, but it was such a full cast
Kristen Erica, John Glober, Laura Vanderbert, Like it was a I could
not ignore it. The more they announced who else was coming, it was
like a small OL reunion tour almost did you totally did you get a photo
with the cast? I do have a group photo. Something shifted in my
universe when that happened. It's just, of course, do you guys like
microphotover lances in the center of it. Yeah, as he should be.
I I'm very conflicted about that. We have a good laugh. I can't
imagine why. I can't imagine why it's right in the middle. I'm like
off on the side. We just that's how we that's how we walked into
the thing. You know, it was just like he was in front of
me. We of course we were gonna do it together, not only because
you know, we're best friends, a little smavel together, but you know,
it saves money, just put the cost on one of these things.
It's just I didn't really think about it. But I'm like, oh there
I am kind of behind everybody on the side, and I'm like, well,
that'll be my background, and but no, no, it's it's it's
uh, it's great. We have a good laugh about it. But but
no. So so we met you there and then reconnected on you know afterward,
obviously, and you see me a great a Talkville artwork of their uh
you know, when The hawk Fill first started, they had these really cool
like Colm but covers I don't I don't remember who drew them or whatever,
and that I think I don't know the first ten episodes or so, and
I really liked him. I was like, Oh, they're gonna do this
every time, Like that's like the could be their episode art if they wanted
to do that. You know, who knows what happened behind the scenes or
what the long term plan was that was. But they don't have none those
since like season one. But you got to, you know, I shared
on social media, you kind of have to send me that nice artwork of
a Talkville you know, issue on quote unquote, and you know it's the
repurpose. And the cool thing about those those covers was like they repurpose like
promo photos but like put modern day Tom and Mike Linham and it's really cool
if people can look it up. And I think they still have obviously they
do still have them for sale and I'm gonna find a good spot thinking up.
So thank you for that. For so it's another reason why you're here.
Act. We actually think we had a great you'd be on here before
you send me that. So Just for the record, I just want to
add about Wizard World, which is that I went really for the photo and
then when they started adding new pieces of the happy hour thing or the or
the small vill nights, it was just like the piece that you just had
about saving money resonates, because I just kept throwing money at the next thing
and the next thing, and then went there and when I walked by the
booths and all of these individual small villa folks are there, I was just
mesmerized from you know, the line, and then got completely sucked in and
went like back to the payment booth multiple times to be like, Okay,
maybe I will do a quick talk with Tom and maybe I'll do a quick
talk with Erica. So I was just I was I was a marketing I
was a sucker for the I just got drawn in. Well yeah, but
it still recommends you still recommend doing those though, right, The Smavel Knights
and the Happiest definitely Knights super fun. Yeah, oh you Eric, It's
okay, super silly and really fun to see them like that. It's just
it's clear what the Tom and Michael dynamic is there, you know, I
remember I remember that now, Eric, The thing we talked about it too,
and I don't I don't know that happened at yours, but uh,
the one that Forrest and I were at, John Glover showed up. Oh
that's cool. No, we just had Tom and Michael so fun Yeah.
He just he's having me that convention and and he's like lax. I'm like,
oh my god, we're in an episode of the show, right.
You still hear it in the back of your head because he was so good,
and uh, it's so funny the energy of them for us. You
know, I don't know if you remember that the Happy Avay very much,
but like you know, they both kind of talk and it's so it's so
interesting, like they're different, they're different approach to it. It's so true
to who they are, right, Yeah, they were just it's it's clear
that whatever happened on the show, you know, they were there for each
other. And obviously that's still a parent today. But but you're totally right
that it's it's a completely different world. I probably still go to it now,
Yeah, but it feels very different talk, yeah, because they'll have
more knowledge about at least the episodes. But I just singly remember, like
Michael say, he is having a good time manage Yeah, and then Tom's
like, I just I just want people to feel like they're getting their money's
worth out of this. Just they're so different, but it's great, it's
it's it's really fantastic. So and and then for us, I we kind
of skipped ahead to kind of how we met and what your experiences were there,
But like, what about your small Villa journey? How when did you
find the show? So I grew up knowing that my dad really liked Superman
and was a big fan of the comics in the fifties and sixties, and
at some point he started showing me the ones that he'd kept, like in
these binders, and I remember being interested in that, And I honestly don't
remember where the exact connection to Smallville was, but I have really fond nostalgic
memories of being eight years old and watching the DVDs on our portable DVD player,
which is quite the timeline to bring back into the fold. But I
watched one, two, and three all in the summer before season four came
out, So Crusade was the first live episode that I watched. A lot
of people, man, that's true for a lot of people. Yeah,
wonder why. ABC Family was another factor there when they started showing them.
But that was, man, that was the you know, I say two,
three, two and three or the peak, but I think four was
also like you know, coasting off that, and then you know, then
it just you know, they continued on. Yeah, and and I have
different feelings about the different seasons that perhaps we'll get into, but sure some
some aligned with you and some a little bit divergent, okay, but I
think, you know, it was just in some ways, it's kind of
like come for the powers and the superhero stuff and and then you know,
nostalgia or whatever, and stay for the emotional stuff, Like I get,
it's so real. The relationships, as we always talk about are it's it's
just such a wholesome, intense, beautiful story. And the music, as
you've said Zach before, it was just the core platform, you know,
the foundation of my musical interests. And I also like dragged people in to
watch it, friends at school. I remember like going to school bringing the
DVD sets and saying, here's the next one, just being like feeling like
nobody was as interested as I was. So that's what was so cool about
about your podcast coming into the world. Is it transformed like it was this
niche interest I had and all of a sudden it was it was known there
were other people like me there. You go, noh, well, we
can all relate to that for sure. And Brandon, what about you,
man? How did you find small Doll become a fan? I found it
through my dad. He's a big DC comics fan. Bought a lot of
the comics as a kid. I was only seven when the show started in
two thousand and one, so I don't know how. Yeah, I don't
know how. He now I felt old. Yeah, definitely was not starting
high school at Clark. But did you think high school was going to be
like this for you? You know, not exactly, no, because I
didn't grow up in Smallville. But I grew up in a town called Callville.
Small town. We had five thousand people in our town. We were
the biggest town in the county. See that's a real small vill right there,
None of this forty six thousand. Yeah, this show likes to act
like it's a small town, and they show it that way. But every
time I see that welcome to Smallville sign, it kind of makes me laugh.
A bit because that's not how a forty thousand person town really is.
But yeah, my dad, we pretty much watched it from the pilot.
I fell off after I think season seven because that's when I started high schools,
right around when season eight was starting, and then I picked it back
up in college and I started again from season one, went all the way
through, finished it up. But yeah, I mean my dad would.
He he's a high school teacher, so he would tape it on a VHS
tape in his classroom at night and he'd bring it home when we'd watch it
the next day at home. Nice. I got a lot of my old
tapes. I wish I had recorded every episode of the tape. Then I
would have had like promos and commercials, because after like season three or four,
it was all DVR and then you're like, well you're lead it at
some point, right, So there's so many I wish I had more of
that stuff. Fortunately, there's been people online who have, you know,
uploaded promos and things. Unfortunately I been able to find them and share them.
But there was something cool about and then I'm glad I did because when
I when I started the podcast, like especially like season two or so like
I'm the I'm the if you go search like a promo for duplicity, I'm
the person who posted it. That's all you. Yeah, it's like I
don't know why nobody, No, they're not out there, But there are
a lot of good other YouTube channels that have uploaded promos. And then I
found some other I found some links somewhere that had like every promo from like
season one to seven, Like oh great, perfect, And I'm glad I
saved all those wh I did because then they had like disappeared some like again
like it's me uploading a lot of promos. Well, let's go so so
so Brandon. Uh, Like I said in the mail back episode, your
emails about the tally board have been my favorite emails. No offense to you
guys, but anybody else here. But what what what inspires you to do
such a thing. Oh well, I'm I'm I'm an electrician, so I'm
just around driving around a lot, on jobs a lot. So I'm just
looking for stuff to listen. I found Talkville. Listen to that saw,
you know, listen to your episode that you were on there swapped over.
I kind of fell off Talkville after Rosetta, just Michael saying that could not
be as good as the pilot. I was like, you know what you're
saying, this is as good as the pilot. I don't know if he
understands. If the pilot is the best upso of the show, you probably
don't have a very good show. Yeah, yeah, let's call it down
trajectory. Yeah. So, I you know, I listened through, and
you know, some of some of these, some of some of the things
that you say commonly just made me laugh. And so I was like,
you know, I got through I think season seven. I was like,
I better go back, and I think that would just be a fun thing
to go back and see how many times he said them. So fun.
So I went through, and I've listened to you to your podcast twice now,
so I get all that stuff. Well, I appreciate it, and
I'm looking forward to the final talities as the season's continue. So some of
those, some of those I'm like, oh, yeah, I say this
all the Time'm sure the other ones' is like, oh, that's rather surprised.
So that that's fun, but well cool, y'all. Well there you
go, those little insights y'all. For the listeners, and I you know,
I guess real quick before we get into the episode, you were in
season nine, right, we're getting near the end of the show for us.
You know, you briefly mentioned your your season, you know, opinions,
we can we can go around it and share this quickly. But like
as far as the eras of the show go, right, we're in like
the metropolisis right now, eight, nine and ten. Forst what's your favorite
era of the show, and is it this it's not where we currently are,
sorry to say, I mean, I guess the like the real question
for all of us is, excuse me, can we really get beyond the
nostalgia of one, two, and three, Like there's just something so core
to the beginning. But I also have affection for four and six, which
I know might be a minority opinions that might kick me off the call for
something well, I mean if four, I mean, you have the nostalgia
factor for four because that was one of your first I mean, the first
live episodes to watch. That makes sense, right, Definitely season three is
like season of the whole show. But yeah, I definitely like the high
school years and a lot of that ties into our small Viala or our Superman
Wednesdays that we were doing at the time, So I just, yeah,
just can't top those. Yeah, fair, what about your Brandon, I
mean, you came to it at a different age than us. Maybe maybe
that have will influence your favorite seasons. But yeah, I mean I remember
thinking, you know, as a kid, I was like, oh,
yeah, those early seasons were awesome, and you know, I fell off
after season seven. My dad kept watching. I remember him watching. I
wasn't watching with him, but I came in and it was it was absolute
justice. He was watching and I was like, what the heck is this
show? And he's like, trust me, seasons eight through ten are better
than the others. And I was like, I that doesn't even make sense.
Once they got with Alex Man, the show really took off, let
me tell you. Yeah. But you know, after having Washington College,
and definitely as I get older, I appreciate the later seasons more. We're
season nine is definitely my favorite. So we're deep in my favorite season right
now. Excellent? Excellent. Yeah, I mean to answer your question for
it soon. Season nine is the one that kind of breaks through, gets
up there with season one, two and three. For me to the nostalgia
at all. And I really I've been enjoying it. And you know,
when we you know, because because Brandon has done the math and seen what
my favorite seasons are, and I think we do the math, we're going
to find that season nine I might even be my favorite. Well, well
we'll see if it's well, man, I got to rethink a lot of
things, but I'm giving a lot of the s. All right. Well,
that being said, let's get into within check Mate. It's time before
Oliver wasn't even our real target and who was? You're after everyone who's ever
worked at Watchdower. You left your greatest asset vulnerable one. That's your move,
Smallville. All new episode this Friday at eight seventh Central on the CW.
Checkmate is the seventeenth episode of Smallville ninth season. It aired on April
ninth, twenty ten. Was written by John Chisholm and directed by Tim Scanlon.
Now, this is John Chisholm's first episode of Smallville, first of three.
He goes on the right, Patriot and dominion in season ten, which
you know, I think some pretty strong episodes, huh yeah, not bad.
Now, based off his IMDb this is the only thing he has done.
So I don't know where he came from or where he went to.
Maybe all these little more research before he got season ten, because you were
a couple of episodes there, but again not sure hand too much off the
top of a very strong outing for a first time writer on the show,
and Tim Scalon had directed quite a few episodes as well, So we got
a first time or and a long timer here behind this episode. Now ratings,
watch Brandon. Let's start with you, Okay, to give you a
little context, the previous week's episode, Escape got two point one to three
million viewers in April of twenty ten, and way back, season premiere Savior
in September two thousand and nine got two point five eight million viewers. So
we'll go around and see what you all think checkmate got in April twenty ten.
Okay, so you said Escape got two point one three that is correct.
Hmmm. I mean that's a good episode. I'm gonna Escape one with
Shi. I enjoy that one. When I when I think of season nine
good episodes, though, that does not come to mind. That's why my
reaction was so well, it's not as strong in terms of riding, but
there's some fun stuff in that episode. I'm gonna I'm gonna give I'm gonna
say it went up a little bit. I'm gonna say two point two two,
all right, Forrest, what about you, I'm gonna think that we're
kind of plateauing, so I'm gonna stick around to one. Two point one
all right? Eric, Well, that last episode I always feel like should
be the Supernatural crossover episode, but yeah, I also think it plat d.
I'm gonna say two point one two, slightly down, two point one
two alright, So we got so we got two point two from Brandon,
two point one from Forrest, and two point one two from Eric. Well,
two point one three. It was exactly the same as the previous week,
so you guys are very closer circling it and uh so, hey,
to your point, Brandon, people didn't dislike escape, so they came back.
Everybody came back. Yeah. Oh man. So the episode starts out
with a previously on Smallville by Alison Mack. We get little flashes of what's
going going on. We get some Oliver Chloe romance, so you know what's
going on there. Martian Manhunter talking about his powers being restored from absolute justice
of Candorian blood being taken by Checkmate, and then a mix of all kinds
of footage which means nothing to this story. They just were like, Eh,
that's a cool show. Right again, these previously on small voes might
look like the greatest most intense action pact show of all time, and even
the music like great, great job on that stuff, right send me,
And then the episode starts proper. And then when the episode itself starts,
we get a beautiful exterior shot of uh, Checkmate's headquarters. I'm like,
I mean this must be CGI of like Norway or something. I don't know,
but it's like, this is a very beautiful shot. And like I'm
so used to these stock shots of Metropolis or a helicopter from years ago,
or the CGI daily Planet like or the Smallville main street. Like I got
it. Like I was very impressed that they created this, and they kept
cutting into it and with more than one angle too, like keep going back
to tether the episodes this is I'm like, this is great. Like I
don't good on them for creating this. This could have been such a lazy
like model in the background, same shot every time, but I was really
impressed by this, I think. So I don't know where this came from,
Like, I is this from them, because I don't see him spending
the money at this late in the game to make something that new, right,
That was my That was one thing as well, But I believe they
cut some costs other places. It was a little some stock footage. Yeah,
I think that's how they balanced that out. But I was, I
was like, y'all, I thought, I thought, certainly, I'm like,
this is the best use of your budget right now. But sure,
because they do go back to it later the season, so it's not like
a one off. If it was just gonna be one off, I'm sure
they would have like found some stock footage from some WB movie and well they
could have found stock footage from Harry Potter like that is full Hogwarts. Yeah,
oh, very impressive. But then we keep zooming in and and there's
a there's a chessboard on Amanda Waller's office, and and uh, did you
guys think her off is a little overly themed to chess? Yeah, that
would get boring pretty quick. Also, the Bishop and Knight, we're in
the wrong places on the black side. Did just do that? I did
not. I did not notice that. Yeah, for such a chess I
feel like John Chilsholm like he must have been he must have been in a
chess club himself. With all the chess visuals and dialogue like your move,
I'm like, but I really like it, Like this had an angle like
this was this had a language like this episode was like this is chess,
this is checkmate. And it was like because because I criticized small it was
such generic dialogue all the time, But no, this is like specific to
this episode in these characters. But the Brandon were you thrown off? But
the fact that not only was there chessboards on the floor but also the wall
a bit, Yeah, that some serious branding for a covert government operation.
I wonder what this place could be. And I'm so I was introduced to
Amanda Waller through Justice League Unlimited, and I was like, I don't remember
this chess stuff, but sure, I mean the comic book. She's part
of a lot of organizations. So then when we get a real interesting slow
motion of like you know, her knocking over the White Knight is so much
slow motion in this episode, Yeah, so much slow motion, but but
not even like they have a cool Zack Snyder slow motion and they have like
old school like I don't know, Peter Jackson slow motion where it's like,
hey guys, you didn't shoot at slow motion. It's all gendary. Now,
I don't know why who is the White Knight? Is it? Is
it Clark? It's supposed to be Test, right, it's Tests. Maybe
it was Lex and Test too. Well. The thing the thing was,
the thing was the misdirect here is like, oh, you think Amanda Waller
is mad at Test Mercer and we're taking her out, but instead it was
like we're activating Agent Mercer and it's all set up to get Green Arrow,
but really to get watch Towers. So I don't. But then like Clark
knows that the that the Night is her. We'll talk about that later.
I'm like, how do you know that? But anyway, I like,
again, good on into leaning to the chess thing though, because this this
is something different and something from the comics and something new. We haven't we
haven't seen this, right, So we see Tests is sent to a message
from Checkmate because her chest her chest piece has been moved, and I want
to go back and see how long has that chessboard been in her office.
Just this episode. Come on, y'all, come on, no way from
the makers of the Veritas window, come the chessboard. And it kind of
like this is like Age Mercer activated here, right, we get this almost
James Bond esque kind of music and every surface is like a men in Black
room with you know, the guns coming out and all these things. She
has her a little suit up and then she she legit has like a Wayne
Enterprises compartment to just like slide out of her office to like she went down
like that's a from the top of Luthor. Yeah, she laundry shirt from
the top of Luther Corp. To the street. So go ahead, I'm
sure it's the same question. Is this Luther Corp? Or is this the
Daily Plane? Ah? Good call that. You're right. This is her
Daily Planet office because all of her has the LUF office. Is it also
the office that Lex was in in the Daily Planet? Yes, I know,
I know, production wise, it is, And I'm pretty sure it's
supposed to be because it's like the owner's office. So interesting. It's like
what they decided to make offices for, Like Lionel never had a house or
anything, but Lex has the Luthercorp. Office and the Daily Planet office.
And then when Lex left, Test is like, well, I'm gonna just
run operations in this office. And then they give Oliver a Luthergorp office,
which is not as cool, Like I think that this is the trend.
Backed then like, oh, well, let's have a lot of bricks and
pipes and it's all industrial. Im Like, dude, those Luther Coorp offices
were great, And I guess they rebuilt them for season ten because I know
that Lionel and you know, Earth two Linel and Clone Lex are in there,
so they didn't destroy those sets. They just disassembled them. But but
no, the office thing is always very confusing to be two for ust.
Do you have something, Brandon, Oh no, I just I had it
on my note that Tests going down that garbage chute really made me think of
Emperor's New Groove. I was thinking he's going down the chute. I was
thinking a little more along the lines of Gremlins too, you know, John
Gliver Escape. I was just thinking Batman Forever Oka. But uh hey,
you know it's it's it's a good look for tests, these fatigues and this
wig. You know, on the topic of the wig, I'm convinced this
is Dinah's wig, oh from a from a Siren. Yeah, you're probably
speaking of saving budget. You're probably correct because it's it's kind of like Glano's
wig from season seven, Like you know that that that looks like a wig.
You're not feeling anyone, but you know, I'll say this, I
think it's well directed because obviously it's the same backlot we see a hundred times.
Just the way it shot, like I don't know, like you don't
see the tops and bottoms of buildings and like it could be any street,
right, And then she kind of Sherlock Holmes styles Sherlock Holmes of the Robert
Downey Universion, like notices things right. Yeah, and the slow mo punch
the faith that was very Robert down somebody's a guy Richie fan. So once
she punched him in the face, she hits him on the left side and
so the blood comes out the right side. But then later when you see
him, he's got like dried blood on the left side of his face.
He just maybe have a steake blood. It's all an act. You played
the makeup wrong. I didn't recall exactly like, oh, they actually trying
to get to because I know, like, oh, she has the issues
of checkmate, right, so I'm like, oh, they're really trying to
get her, now, I didn't really. They did a good job of
like, oh, this could go either way of like this is actually him
trying to get her, or this is a this is a staged thing,
right. Gotta love green arrow though on patrol with no bow and arrow just
walking around. So strange to see that. I know he has his compact
bow and his little you know, crossbow, but you're the green arrow man.
He's the green are He's not the green bow and arrows. Just a
arrow, that's all he carries with him. That's good. And he sees
this disturbance through his sunglasses, which which you have this heads up display which
they occasionally throw at you, which which which to me I'm glad they do
because otherwise it's like, why are you wearing these sunglasses? I thought that
was cool when it came out. Yeah, some Brandon. Oh, I'm
just saying it wouldn't make any sense he's trolling at night wearing sunglasses. I
think. I don't know like that. I actually haven't a counter for that,
like the green ear heads up display because I'm like maybe three times so
far. It's it's so rare, so it feels so random and out of
place. I know that I don't Lance and I had a good laugh about
it on I think we're talking about was it must have been Bride When he
goes to shoot, like what he thinks he's gonna shoot? Lex's the mannequin.
I'm like, did you really need your heads up to play for that?
It's turned off his targeting computer? So, uh, these Oliver shots
of him running on the rooftop and doing like a tumble like this is stock
footage? Right? Oh yeah, I actually where they're from. I do
care, I do ca. Okay, So the Oliver Park course scenes are
from Arrow and Absolute Justice. Okay, that and then they also reuse the
Martian Manhunter, but we can get to that one. Yes, I knew
that. Okay, So yeah, the the the hit, the turn and
flip and all that. I'm like, I know I've seen that and I
wasn't good. Thanks for looking that up. I knew I've seen these exact
shots, but it's like, where that's from. I gotta gotta find this.
I'm not gonna hold that again. Some fair play to them right,
it's it's been long enough. It's been long enough, and it's look,
he's running across the rooftops. It's fine because look because they give us beautiful
cgi castle, I'm gonna forgive all that stuff, right. Uh. And
then so you know, Test keeps running and we end up and then I
know exactly where they shot this, but they kind of hide it pretty well.
It's underneath the overpass, which they use way too often because there's like
a fence and a train track. So this last last agent standing is like
in a shooter, but then Green Arrow shoots him instead with his little crossbow.
Well, they had to get their their Batman returns reference in there first.
Okay, this black, I'm black? Right, This here elevates this
episode to me. I remember when I saw, Oh my god, that
doing the Batman returns thing, because he's like he's using his voice changer,
right, and he's like he's talking to this Look, I'll tell you this.
I do think rewatching Smallville here, Smavels, Green Arrow is way more
accurate to the combok Oliver Queen Green Arrow than Arrows. Yeah, he's making
quips. He's has some left political leanings, you know, like he I
don't know, like I just saying there's a reason why. I mean,
an Arrow's great, but it's like the Dark Knight trilogy as a show,
and that's very obvious. But so he's talking to this agent. He's like
block old Black but s order to pull off, and the agent says,
easier than you think. I'm like, oh, it's like missiletoe can be
deadly if you eat it. Yeah, we have to start fighting now.
Anyway, it's great, like because Green Narrow is the batman of the small
universe, so like for them to like obviously obvious, like that's that had
to be why they put this in here, like this right, yeah,
I still say black on black and starting to pull off when I wear black
on black. So very quittable, small ole dialogue. Do people say that
in your life? I don't know, but I do now. Yeah.
So he shoots this guy with his little like dart electric Arrow because they're more
family friendly show than Arrow, where he would just like shoot a guy in
a knee and uh, but it turns out he didn't save tests. He
played himself because it was all in act, and she uh knocks him out
and says check mate. Episode title said an episode plus one because it was
a game. I mean, I don't like this is the thing. Like,
what do you guys think about this? I again I said earlier,
I like it now. I like the whole chess talk the whole time.
Did it wear on y'all or did you like the vibe? What do you
think for ust? I think it works. I don't. I don't feel
like it's it was totally exhausted by the end. I think if we'd gone
on a few more minutes, maybe it reached its limit. No, I
think I think it's kind of cute and clearly they're trying to make it happen.
I do have some confusion, like some blurry overlaps between this and Oliver
being kidnapped by Rick Flagg in not so many episodes from now. That's a
good point, but we'll get there. It's very similar. Yeah, what
about you guys, Eric Brandon, are you cool with the chess talk?
It was fine, lots of fun. Yeah. I think since it was
limited to this one episode, it worked. Yeah, good call there.
So do you have a question though, do we Obviously it's revealed that that
test finds out who this is later on, but are we to understand that
that Oliver didn't know this was tests, that he was trailing the sunglasses.
Man, I don't think he knew it first, but I think once they
were down by that train track and he saw her face, I think that's
when he knew it was test. But to your point, though, for
us, you're right, because it's it is truly like the Batman Returns thing
where they both are like, oh, we've we both just figured out our
identities by saying this to each other. That wig, though, you know,
maybe it's more powerful than we think, just like the glasses. Interesting
guys, fools, everybody in this universe. He needs some face facial recognition
stuff on that on those heads off displace sunglasses. But that's yeah, let
let's keep Let's put a bit in that and we can see when we get
to that scene. But yeah, come on, Oliver Batman would know anyway.
So we cut the opening credits. We come back. Uh, Chloe's
getting static on all her monitors and watchtower. Clark shows up and they have
a little back and forth here, and it's my least favorite part of this
episode and perhaps this season, is Chloe and Clark's dynamic where Chloe is like,
you're the worst, Clark, and Clark's like, I don't know,
I don't think I am. And by the end he's like, you're right,
Chloe, I am the worst. And I'm like, why why do
you like this? But because because Clark's like, okay, he does the
classic like I'm sure it's no big deal, which is never what you say.
It never helps any argument in these situations, just for the record,
everybody. But then she's like, well, unlike some people, Oliver actually
follows protocol and Clark's like, what protocol? So let's let's yeah, does
he not know? Brandon, what did you take of this? Does he
not know? Or does he what's going on here? Okay? So I
thought it was interesting because no, her protocol is that you call in while
you're on patrol, And just the previous episode, the opening of Escape,
he's calling into Chloe while he's on patrol. So I'm like, what is
she talking about? Is he is following protocol? We just saw that in
the previous episode. Did you like this, Eric? Did you like that
he was clueless about the protocol? It's it's in keeping with how Clark is
clueless about a lot of things, but maybe he was just taking two long
lunch breaks that work. That works to me. You know, you're absolutely
right, Brandon. That shows the lack of continuity there, but it does
seem in character for Clark to be like, what are you guys talking about?
Like, because I don't I don't like the guy in the chair thing,
right, that's the air verse of all into But that's her trying to
be the guy in the chair and Clark's trying to do his own thing.
So I mean that worked for me, what about you? Four? Mostly
I'm left with this feeling of I'd love to see the off Screenville episode where
they're all sitting around developing the protocol, Like, who is it that actually
established it? Is this just Chloe writing the manual? Or is this I
assume it's Chloe's just taking complete control over everything now and it's imposing her will
and all these superheroes. Yeah, to her credit, Our heroes in this
show are constantly in peril and need each other. So I agree that it
would be it would behoove the team for people to play along Clark, especially,
Yeah, there's something to say though, I mean, especially like Superman
of all heroes, like to not have to be like, hey, i'm
on location, watch Tower tell me what to do, right, because he's
been so proactive lately. Well, that's the thing about the air overse where
it's like, like I understand having it. It's like in this day and
age though, it's like you need that because it's all in this somebody's looking
at satellites and let me go un lock this door for you. But I
don't know like that. That's why, like on some at some point,
I would love to see a period piece Batman or Superman movie where it's just
a guy breaking into a building going through a foul cabinet. I don't like
Batman, they have made serious. I want to see Batman with a flashlight
going through a file cabinet. That's what I want to see. I agree
that, hey, Superman doesn't need it, Like certainly Superman doesn't need it,
but I would expect that Clark would be the one to say it actually
really matters that everybody stays in touch, that everybody is like that we have
each other's back. Even if he doesn't personally need it as much that he
would want to know other people's whereabouts and that is kind of selfish I like,
well, I'm good. I mean you He's like, I don't.
I mean, I'll be fine, don't you guys are talking about So they're
talking here, and they, you know, as Chloe does, pulls up
some some surveillance footage all of his last location because because they the blackout is
gone now because checkmate has obviously blacked all this stuff and they're gone, and
they see they enhance, enhans enhance, and they see Detective John Jones on
the case. Clark says, your buddy system works. I like that,
and Chloe's well, I didn't call him. So that's the intrigue. Right.
Another good thing about this episode. You have, you know, intrigue,
like people have the different agendas going on, nobody knows, but it's
not like a frustrating thing like why don't you go just talk to each other?
So I'm like, oh, okay, you got your own thing working
over here. Of course you would. That makes sense because even though you're
a team, you don't like every last thing. Yeah, I mean,
he's he's under own police business. So good. So this is a great
transition, right, because we see Clark in the watch Star with Chloe.
He super speeds off and then you see him upear on the screen. It's
a subtle thing, that was, but it's really cool, right, But
Chloe did look confused, like she turns around like is that really him?
That was? That was a beat. I'm like, you didn't need that
beat. I don't like you. You know this watchtower, So maybe she
just thought like that was rude. We were in the middle of a conversation.
She she didn't see any papers flying around, so like, I didn't
realize it's super sped off. That's that's the the inconsistency of everything flying around.
It's like it's good for some gags, but they would also be super
annoying. So I understand why they don't. Don't do the different time,
even on the Flash. Right, So I did always on the Flash.
On the Patreon, I literally had a category called flying papers because it's something
I remember from that show Very Low Tallyboard. The Lana Kills of that Tallyboard
was the flash. So uh so, so Clark, you know, he
shows up talking to John Jones. He's being super coy about it. Clark's
like, hey, so what are you doing here? John? So come
here in police business, which I would love. That's been off show that
never made of, like Martian Manhunter, John Jones beat Cop. That's what
I'm talking about. I want to see John Jones in a building with a
flashlight through a foul cabinet. Phil Morris could do it. He totally could
have. He you know, he's always been a supporting character character actor,
but he definitely has the charisma of the talent to have been a leading man
at some point. And guys, this is I mean, we'll talk about
at the end, I guess, but this is it for him. He's
in He's in salvation on a screen. But this is the last proper Martian
man Hunter episode, but potentially he's best episode of the show. What do
you guys think? Oh for sure, I have in my notes that I
love watching What did I have? It was? I love seeing Martian Manhunter
doing his thing so cool, So just anytime he's doing something in this episode,
I just loved him on screen seeing his powers like all of it was
a lot of fun. Yeah, and we see his powers more than any
time else here, which even some new powers which we can discuss. But
so Clark like X raised him to see like what's got in his pocket there?
And he sees that he had taken like one of the ear pieces from
from these Checkmate agents, which a sloppy secret agent leaving your leaving your ear
piece on the at the scene of the crime when you're when you were chasing
superheroes, It's like, what are you doing? Man? So I guess
you know John Jones, he could kind of tell what Clark was doing.
He's like, you should have done that, Clerk, And he's like,
you shouldn't have done that, Clerk, and then he his eyes go run
and he takes off. And this Eric, to your point, is stock
footage from static, right yep, right from Static, right after he killed
Dave Batista and flies up and you can even see like the where they when
he jumps up. But to their credit, they cut away just enough where
it's not obvious. So I'm like, it's fine, Like, it's because
we got the cool cgi castle. But what that's the three seasons ago you
guys are pulling stock footage from that? Is that's interesting there? So then
we cut the tests in uh the back of the Checkmate truck and she's about
to unmasked green Erow, which I'm like, why didn't they immediately do that?
But then Amanda Waller pops up on a screen. She says, you
don't have access, stand down, Agent Mercer, you don't have access to
clearance to peek under the hood. So she gets dismissed and Pam Greer coming
from the Only Davis school of Evanda Waller just on a screen here, right,
because it's that's so funny about the Only Davis. Like in these last
couple of occurrences that she's been in, she's just on a screen the whole
time. Like, hey, hawk man, I'm in charge of the JSA
for some reason, go on this, you know job for me. Oh
hi, they're black, Adam. I'm here being projected via hologram, but
hey, can you getting them checks meola? Uh? Pam grew though,
Like what a git for Smallville. I don't know who called who or how
this was made, but I mean she might be my favorite live action Amanda
Waller. What do you guys think? Yeah, she's like right off the
page to me. I think she just fit like just right. Yeah,
I think she's great. I think it's interesting she's either on a screen or
she's standing in a doorway completely shadowed, as if we don't know who that
is. I did like the visual language of her of like, because she
shows up in silhouette a couple of times and then Clark shows up in silhouette
to talk to her. I was like, this is some good direction here.
So we had lighting and like some interesting setups here. I like a
lot forrest. Is she your favorite Amanda Waller or maybe Angela Bassard from grim
Leandern. Is you tell me doctor Amanda Waller remember her? I do.
I will give it to small Bill. I mean, I think she is
super intense and kind of just stays at that level the whole time. Yes,
but I also think that that might just be who Amanda Waller is.
Yes, absolutely, And look, Leola Davis is great. She's like one
of the best actresses in the world. But you know, and I've said
this before, people like, well, no one but the Ola day was
completely Abnda Waller. I'm like, I don't know, uh, Pam Greer,
Angela Bassett, Cynthia and I Robinson, like they've all been great,
Like it's it's it's it's much like much like a zod not at that level.
But I'm like, I feel like all the Manda Wallas we've gotten are
great. I mean, Angela Bassett was just a weird interpretation. I don't
know what's going on there in Green Lantern, but uh, but yeah,
we got some heavy hitting actresses playing Amanda Waller, and uh, I just
I mean this episode captures who she is more so than almost any other live
action interpretation. Like, oh yeah, look, Amanda Waller killed her own
people in Suicide Squad. What a badass. I'm like, okay, but
like, but that almost nonsense, and so I'm glad. I'm glad the
one thing continuing on in the next DC universe iteration comes from Suicide Squad.
That's what we should be basing our universe offha. But anyway, that's its
own, that's its own conversation. But it turns out in Manda Waller's recruiting
Green Arrow, He's like, She's like, hey, we're checkmate, and
this is what I'm talking about earlier. I'm like, this is so Oliver
Queen like comic books. He's like, yeah, I think he got the
wrong guy. I don't remember signing up for his chess club. Like a
combination of good dialogue and Justin Harley just delivering these certain lions. Right.
Oh yeah, she wakes him up by electrocuting him and then his glasses fall
off, so I guess that reveals his identity to her. Sure, but
then as she's talking, he's like working on his his handcuffs in the back
and breaks himself out. And had she just not like turned off the monitor
that they would have seen the Green Arrow was escaping. But but no,
this is this is some good greeno action. And I had kind of been
hard on Green Arrow in the last you know, like he was season six,
he was like, Okay, cool Green Arrow, but then when he
becomes the main cast member, he like becomes not as cool as Green Narrow,
and I feel like this is this is more that cool Green Arrow that
we like so much when he first showed up, like he's resourceful, yeah
exactly, Yeah, and uses some explosives he has in his in his glove
to blow off the door and then blows off the door in surfs off the
truck under the pavement. I think that was I think that was a great,
great moment. Yeah. I like that the sea floor was green and
the him jumping onto the door reminded me a little bit of Batman Forever,
but not not the cringe factor of Batman forever, just you know, when
they jump out on the door and slide out. It did make me,
oh, sorry, you go forrest. Yeah, oh, and I'll clean
up Dori, whoever wants to go first, all right. It did make
me wonder where did test go because she went out that door. I'm assuming
the truck was driving that whole time. But as we see that door just
goes outside, I thought she was not the other door. Oh wait,
yeah, that that truck was way bigger on the inside than it looked from
the outside, because he looked like her goes down a hallway. Yeah,
and you're like, where's this hallway she goes to? And like does she
have to climb out of the truck to get to the front where she's sitting?
What was somebody else driving and she was just passenger? Like what was
the truck moving the whole time? Did she just jump out of the truck
off to the side of the road, like my job here is done?
She couldn't jump out and chase them when she stopped the car. When she
gets dismissed by Amanda Waller, she she gets herself out of there. She
obviously crawled around to the front of the truck. You're right, the geography
of the truck, it's like the geography of a Jerry's apartment on Seinfeld.
I don't know, have you seen the schematic online where it's like it doesn't
make sense because like the hallway in the kitchen, like that's this truck.
But do you have anything on this forest. I'm just I have it up
right now. I'm taking I'm taking Tom's lead from Talkville and having it available
to us. And everybody's right because the TV is in front that he's talking
to her on of course, so yes, he goes it's it's completely baffling.
And what I just wanted to add was I understand that test doesn't have
clearance to see who it is, but do we have clearance to do a
strip search? Like a lock pick should not be on this human explosives should
not be on it? Like it was bad. Well, it's like they
literally they knocked him out. They put a bag on his head and just
strapped into a chair with no pat down or anything. So and they know,
I mean, they recruiting him for a reason, like he's a talented
guy, like of course, so they took his arrows because he's just the
green arrow. That's why he uses He's gonna have to use his actual bown
arrow because a little Prosperitt was confiscated. But I thought it was a pretty
badass combination of like I think, obviously it's cgi the very first shot of
the door blowing off and sliding, but then it cuts like a stunt guy
on a thing just going down a street. And I was like, good
one, you Smallville. You know that's physical stunts, you know, I
mean, obviously arrow blows small out of the water that department. But for
this green arrow, that was a good stunt. So we follow up with
Martian Manhunter. He's uh, tracked down that last agent, the easier than
you think guy, and he's goales full batman on this guy. He's like
creeping on him from the from a rooftop. You see his eyes that okay,
does smovel overdo the red eyes of the Martian Manhunter. I thought it
was fine because where he's not in it often enough, I think that's a
good like cue of like this guy is not from here. Yeah, but
if he was in the show more, then yes, I would say that
having it that much would be a bit much that's fair. I remember and
the uh you know the series preor Supergirl with Hank Kinshaw, Like the last
shot is like, oh his eyes are red, I know because he's Cyborcs
super mad and I'm like, oh no, their o versus going to use
your comback knowledge against you. Yet again, he's really Martian Renhunter. Which
that's the thing where I think David Herewood is probably the best Martian un Hunter,
just because we spend the most time with him and we got to see
him in his Martian form obviously a lot more. I just love fil Morris
though, like I just if we if we had gotten more of this martial
man Nuwner, he would have been my favorite. But just objectively speaking,
I think that the Supergirl Marshal Ren hunterer his spear. But this again,
this is his best episode. He's getting badass scenes. This is the kind
of scenes you would get in the John Jones The Detective Show where he comes
down and he confronts that guy and he pulls out a gun that the guy
pulls a gun on him. He just like Marsha Manner, just crushes the
gun. It's it's it's it's good stuff. And he's kind of a bad
I just like, tell me where Chicken Maate take quarters is and the guy
takes a suicide bill pretty pretty hardcore, huh, hell Hydra, Yeah,
definitely a Captain America vibe there where the guy just eats the little suicide capsule
and fumbing from the mouth. Now, I was unclear was it a suicide
capsule like Captain America or was it like Suicide Squad where they have the chip
and planet in their brain. It looked like his mouth was moving a bit,
so that's what That's what I thought it was. Yeah, I felt
like it was an intentional thing that he had done. But you're right,
you know, on the previous Leon at the beginning, a mana Waller's like,
welcome to the Suicide Squad, and you're like, oh, maybe that
might have been better. Actually, he just seemed more concerned when you know,
Phil Moore said he was gonna expose him to the world. Yeah,
he seemed more concerned than if he knew he was just about to kill himself.
Good call. But then you know, he you know, starts convulsing
on the ground as he's dying, and then we get to see Marsha man
Hunter celepathy powers again, stuff that we had kind of like been aware of
because obviously Labyrinth was one of his first episodes and he's inside Clark's mind.
But you know, outside of that episode, I don't think we ever see
him do mind stuff. Do we mm hmmm, I don't think. So.
He's just like fighting phantoms and stuff. He's not like doing things.
So like this is this is Martian running, right, So he scanning his
mind and we see like it's you know, it's a creative way of showing
you what's going on. We see some light beams from his hands. I'm
like, all right, we didn't we need that, That's fine, but
yeah, that's I just want to see hands on the face. But yeah
what uh beamhands right, that's a go to for for these shows, Like,
yeah, he's doing something special, It's fine. Uh So then we
don't need to see like a map or something. But we see like the
agent and then his chest piece and we see the castle, so we can
take from there that from that information, Martian Manhunter found where that was.
And I applaud Smable for the subtle teeth like I was expecting like an Indiana
Jones map, like where to go in his head? But so he gets
the location he was looking for. So yeah, mine blasted, let's make
my t shirt mind blasted. Yeah, that's that's a fun talk filter got
point blasted. So then Waller, as you mentioned earlier, she shows up
for the first time here in silhouette to talk to Tests. Because Test is
pretty chill. She's like just like getting out of the car, and Waller
is really pissed, isn't she? Oh yeah yeah she was. She was
super mad. Did you stick cure the target? But no, no,
no, no pat down procedure here. As we established so in the van
with Oliver Waller references you have a long flight ahead to think of, I
don't know, joining us or whatever. And then we have the car here
with Tests, no plane right presumably on site at checkmate. So it's not
quite what day is it? What time is it? But oh so you
think they're at the headquarters here. I I took it like they went to
the airport, and so so Waller came to chew out. Yeah maybe she
was going to be on that plane and they didn't have the budget to have
a plane there, so we just had's just have this jeep here. You're
right, because this this really all right, this is the only scene where
Waller is not at h Q. I guess, so that's a good point
for us. I don't know where that headquarters is. I think somewhere northern
Europe, that I assume, but uh, you know, she she does
say Green Earrow was not the end game, but it was our opening move,
again keeping the chess terminology, and she starts to question Testa's commitment because
you've been off the grade for a few months, and uh, she's like,
I'm I'm in, and she's like you better be because there's only one
way out. Hence the suicide Squad reference earlier, which they're kind of conflating
Checkmate in the Suicide Squad. And I'm not I'm not a comic visionado when
it comes to these characters or organizations, but I think those are different.
So I'm not sure exactly, Like I don't think Amanda Waller kills Checkmate agents
the way she kills Suicide Squad agents, right. I remember looking it up
because I was confused as well. And on Wikipedia they said Checkmate is a
division of the Suicide Squad. See I would I would think the opposite would
be true, right, It's like checkmate is the organization. Suicide Squad is,
Oh, yeah, those criminals we captured, we're gonna have to do
stuff for us as supposed to the Task Force X is the parent company.
What's just going in fat But it's ADS threat to tests because she's like her
alliances are divided, so this is ADS in there, right. But then
uh, we go back to the watch shower and Chloe's looking at this earpiece
stuff. And because I guess Clark again resourceful smart Clark, he X rayed
it. He uses microvision. I guess it's my power. I'll call it
whatever I want, he says next season it's kind of liked. But that's
not squire Hares exactly. He must have read the serial number on the earpiece,
and then Chloe looks it up and thinks it's from the government. And
then Oliver shows up and makes a tax of Asian joke, which is funny.
Uh. And again it's just the jovial all of it. So it's
it's refreshing. If only he had a goatee, there's some facial hair,
then I'll be like, oh, I guess and used the bow and arrow.
Yeah, but I don't know having seen Justin Hartley with the facial hair,
and this is us. It was a good thing. He just was
clean shaven. Well, it's the thing like even but even Steven Emel was
always that, like not five o'clock shadow, more like nine o'clock shadow.
I don't know, g yeah, just the permanent scruff. But hey,
in season seven he does have kind of the more bushier you know, beer
because he's in prison and stuff. But it's we don't need to pit our
heroes against each other, although we all love to do that. They both
have very strong elements of the comic book Oliver Queen. Look at all the
different versions of Batman or Superman, right, So I'm not saying like this
looks clearly better than it's just nice to see these attributes with the characters show
up here which don't show up in Narrow That's that's really my point. And
then Chloe and Oliver kind of greet each other like, oh my god,
they're all gonna get kind of lovey dovey, and Clark's like, yeah,
I'm glad you're safe too. Was he feeling like he was missing out?
Yeah? I want to hug what's going on here? I spent four years
in high school doing this crap. I have to do it now then,
But then Oliver tells tells him what happened. You know, it's kind of
nonchalant about it, but he's like, well, yeah it was. You
know, use a lot of pork references, like he's he was chasing a
pig and now he's a pork chop or whatever. But then he mentions,
you know, Checkmate. He's like, yeah, somebody from Checkmate tried to
recruit me. And Chloe's like, what did you say check Because when Sylvester
Pimbleton from the JSA was killed, his last words to me, we're look
out for check which was in the previously and uh, this is their clue
of like, oh, these must be the people that came after them,
and now they're coming after us. And did you guys alnice this this loose
lips sink ship shoaster. Yeah, yeah, I saw that Chloe would have
that hanging there to have, you know, subliminately tell people to not give
away their secrets. The set design just funny to me. In the Watchtower,
it's just just and you know, y'all can't see a bit, but
Eric has his his background. Here is the watchtower itself. I believe you're
right at the spot where Henry James Olsen was stabbed to death. Memory of
brow went out, So they pull up the surveillance footage of the you know,
Martian Manners confrontation with that agent. They're like, oh, man,
what happened here? And they look up the agent. They do a face
recognition and they're like, oh, he's a really high executive and they're like,
well, that's strange. He seems to be too important to be a
checkmate guy. And they're like, well, maybe Checkmate put him there,
or maybe they're recruiting people important, and it's probably a combination of both.
But guess what, he's dead. And Chloe and Clark are both like,
well, obviously John Jones killed him. Yeah, this guy's thinking that.
I think it was pretty uh jumping the gun there. To be fair,
Clark has seen him kill somebody. That's a great point, Brandon. That's
literally how he met He killed the Tista, For God's sake, he didn't
he didn't have heat blast through his through his chest, So you know,
he's got a certain am with how he kills people, right, But Batista
was a super strong alien. This guy was just a human, that's true.
Now they found an oreo on the body, though that really would have
been his calling. Just two oreos over the eyes like the coins. Nice,
But Clark super speeds off, presumably to get to the bottom of this,
and Oliver Employee there from it, and Employe suggests that Oliver just you
know, doesn't go on patrol for a little bit because checkmates on the Green
Arrow. And she's like, oh, I hang up your tights. He's
like, they're not tights, which comes up a couple of times. Amusingly.
That's again this episode intentional dialogue, right, That's that's why I like
it, because you listen to me talk about this and you're like, is
he gonna hate this because he hates apparently Superman references. That's not what it
is. I hate it when it's like it's a normal, normal episode and
then out of nowhere, it's like, well Clark Kent leaps tall theories in
a single down and I'm like, what do you what are you doing?
I have something on that? Oh please, that's the test. Yeah.
Yeah. So so my my thoughts on that was like, maybe the Warrior
Angel had like a cartoon show and comic books and all that stuff was said
about Warrior Angel, eve leap, tall buildings and say all these things unless
people are like, oh yeah, it's kind of like you know, wor
Rangel without actually saying it. That's what we needed, Eric, you unlocked,
and we needed in one of these Warrangel episodes someone watching a TV and
them doing the George Reeves Superman intro. But like with Warrior Angel, right,
strange visitor from another planet's right, that's my head cannon standing on the
moon with an American flag behind him in black and white. That's what we
needed, So that's we'll go with that. Well, then you have the
small little crow mascot as a cape and I'm like like, what do you
what are you doing here? But but but that's no. That's why that's
why I like the Worra Angel mythology because obviously there would be superhero characters right
like they would exist in this world. But Oliver's not going to go on
patrol or anything. And he's also not going to follow Chloe. He's gonna
go look into where Icicle went because they're like, oh, well, the
Icicle was involved with the JSA, maybe there's connection. There's a Kloe's gonna
go invest and investigate that. And guess what Oliver's gonna have to go to
this Luther Corp shareholder dinner. I guess I guess he wasn't gonna go.
He was just gonna be grew. At least Bruce Wayne will show up to
these things sometimes. Luckily he's close enough. It's only a three hour drive
to the shareholder dinner. Well, I'm sure Oliver Queen has a helicopter,
that one that's always running on the top of Luther Corp establishing shot. I
think that would have aged better if they just had it not running. Yes,
yeah, the fact that it's spinning constantly. Yeah. The Oliver Queen
man, it's like I guess, I guess the Luthor Corp brand is strong
because even though he's merged his company with Luther Corp, they're keeping the Luther
Corp brand. Fine, fair enough, I mean, all these mergers work,
So h HBO Max will now be known as Max. He's not gonna
make that mistake. He understands the value of the HBO brand. So Oliver
Queen's not gonna call it Max, is gonna keep calling it Luther Corp.
So it's a cute like, oh, be careful, oh, because they're
in love now, right, Okay, you know I've said this before.
I'm like, oh, I'm glad cly, you know, with Green Arrow,
And I'm like, I've kind of like actually have changed my mind now,
like because I ship him way more with tests I discovered from this episode
and other things like they're just way better and the last scene proves. But
anyway, let's continue. So Okay, this shot of Luther Mansion, I
think it's day for night. I think they took a day shot and made
it look night because I don't recall other than that one shot with a fountain
in the front of Luther cor Luther Luther Corp Mansion that one shot of the
fountain in the front of the Luther Mansion. I don't think there was ever
a night shot of Luther Mansion ever, and the show, that's why we
always saw it again and again. They did have the one where the windows
change. Oh, so they had they had the back shot during the day
and then it was like a night shot, but it was all stained glass
all of a sudden. Okay, I can send them to you. So
so I wanted to have like all the established shots for like wallpapers, that
kind of cycloge. Yeah, and that was how I found like this,
those windows aren't the same. And that was also how I found the Daily
Planet. One was a repurposing of uh, doctor Swan's building the Clark first
metam Oh yeah, okay, well yeah this see also Eric, you should
you should do your own little side project on the establishing shots and all that
on your on your newspaper collections of that area. But they obviously put the
moon in this shot. And it's the biggest moon you've ever seen? Am
I right? Oh yeah? Straight out of Bruce Almighty. It's like,
y'all have you have you seen the moon in the sky before? Like this
this the the oceans got of control? Is there ever a crescent moon on
Smallville? Or is it constantly? That's a good point too, because because
they've gotta make you real obvious it's the moon. I don't maybe just that's
the thing that here's what happened there. They like they do this, like,
guys, we need we need a Luther Corp night shot, like we
always use this one. Let's use a different one and make it look like
night and like okay, and then somebody turn it into like, you know
that this doesn't look that good. I know, let's add the mood,
but make sure people see it. Yeah, it's like we need to make
it real obvious. That was the size of the building itself. I got.
I will take a screenshot of this and share it, because again,
there's there's a lot of a lot of times like I'll just take a screenshot
of like oh, here's a promo picture on somebody's desk, or here's the
but this is worth. This is screenshot worthy, I think. So.
Then Oliver and Tests, you know, they trade some barbs. Again,
I really like their vibe and their their chemistry, and especially when I look
at that and then I look at like Chloe and Oliver being cute together,
I'm like, I'm not buying this at all. Like it's so strange how
I've like and it has nothing to do with real world events, all right,
I'm just saying like it doesn't help me not But I just I was
all like I was all about like, you know, I think Oliver has
chemistry with everybody, but of the three main love interests of the show,
Chloe, Tests or Leis, he has the least chemistry with Chloe. They
have good professional chemistry, but when they're all like, hey, be careful,
you know, because I miss you or whatever, I'm like, eh,
whatever, it seems a little forced, right, right. But these
two Oliver and Tests they have some sizzle, right, they have some history
to them, so they're trading some barbs about this or that, and then
we get to the Batman Returns part of it, well, you know,
because he's like, look, whatever day you've had mine's and much worse.
She's like, oh you cavea are another right temperature, like getting them craft
or being raised and spoiled because she thinks he's you know, just a you
know, a pretty boy, rich rich guy without any real problems, although
she knows better because it doesn't matter. So that's funny. And then we
get the black on black that's hard to pull off because he's wearing black on
black and he says it's easier than you think, and they both have that
b straight out of Batman Returns. No missiletoe. It can be deadly if
you eat it, but a kiss can be even deadlier if you need it.
And they're like, do we have to start fighting now? And then
that's that's a great that's a great way to reveal I didn't do each other,
Like, I really like that, and I this had to have been
from Batman Returns Lift, which again is fine. No other options there,
I mean in literature cinema, there's no other reference they could be making,
right, But she's like green Arrow And then we cut to the commercial.
So I I thought that was great, and it's it's it's funny, you
know, because Tests, You're like, it's a long game with Tests,
because she shows up, she's like a villain and then she's like kind of
a sympathetic but then she's like, now it's real this season she's in this
other organization, and like, you don't they didn't know what to do with
her, but I really enjoyed Tests as a character. Or they think,
Cassidy Freeman, it's fantastic, and so I'm like, you all the journeys
to take her on, and now this this gets her closer to her being
on the team, so to speak, to get her to where she's hanging
out of the bachelor party hangover. So that's the ultimate goal for this character.
That's that's that's where we're headed. But not the Red Tornado. No,
that's you know that's not Cannon. I know that to me, Brandon,
do you like to She's eleving combooks? You know, I've never read
them. I didn't even know they existed until you talked about them on your
podcast. So let's see, Forrest, would you recommend them? I mean
I was in such a you know, place of appreciating a long run of
a show and also you know, wishing it would have gone on forever,
So of course I leaned into the comics, and they do what the show
could never have done, right, Like it's it's very comic book kiy of
bringing in the new characters, and of course the suit and everything. I
would I would recommend them. I don't know about camp and then I'd have
to think about it if I'm comfortable with that, but I would recommend it,
Eric, Eric, you are you a fan? So I like the
suit. I wish the s on the Cape was gold like like in the
show, and that's yeah, my I really like the s on the Cape.
I thought Batman was kind of fun, but yeah, the overall story,
yeah, I can't say i'd recommend that, but it was fun seeing
him in the suit. Obviously you should read it. Brandon, of course
when they started kind of phoning in the artwork. Yeah, when he stopped
looking like Tom Welling, I'm like, what's the point? Yeah, you
know, like that's that's that's my thing. Also, I will say for
Batman, I like the idea and we're not really spoiling thinking free Brandon,
but like the grease paint, the face pain Batman like a special Ops guy.
I'm like, that makes a lot of sense, and I've never seen
another version of Batman do that. They can't even get the I makeup right
you live action much let's face paint. But I thought that's a real cool
way to kind of truly stay in the shadows. But anyway, check him
out Small Little Season eleven. So yes, they test is in those and
that's where that comment and thoughts came from. How did she appear in them?
You'll have to find out for yourself, because I don't spoil things on
this podcast, as you guys know clearly, I think I think we're up
to eighty four mentions of the series finale that I'm not sure we can claim
that. Listen, the series reality is spoiled in like the the Funk Coat
Pop and the Blu Ray box sets, give me a give them a break
there, right, So we come back for commercial and Clark is at the
at the morgue. Now is it a hospital visit? If he if he's
there to look at a dead body because they took the guy to the hospital
that he was dead. What do you guys think, Uh, he's not
a patient. I say yes, just because I want that number to get
up to two hundred. So we get we gotta maybe from Brandon. Yes,
and Eric, what do you think for us? I mean, it
is a visit. Well, see, that's the thing. But but but
but I don't make it where they go to the hospital, like to go
talk to doctor Emil for example. I don't think it is. But I
am fully on board with Eric about getting the number up. I think you
gotta see patients in beds. I think that's fair. Brandon, I think,
I think I I my heart tells me what you guys are saying,
but my head tells me what Brandon is saying. So we got we gotta
we gotta say no. We we got we gotta say no on this one.
And so he's a he's at the morgue and he finds a chess piece,
and he says, yes, of course, And I'm like, that's
the only only explanation on that. I don't someone explained this to me.
Maybe I wrote the same question. Maybe he's been to her office and seeing
she has that exact same custom made chess board, that exact same black and
white chess board. Heard there's none other he's ever seen in all his travels.
But speaking of chessboards, did you you know Lionel had a three layer
chess board in earlier seasons? Oh? Yeah, big time. I was
like, oh, star Trek. I've always wanted to learn three D chess
because of Star Trek. I have it right here. I could teach you
sometimes. Oh all right, well we got to make it happen. Man.
I've always thought, if nothing else, I want to buy it and
put it in somewhere in my house. Will look really sophisticated. So who
plays chess here? For real? I'm terrible at it. Probably the worst
chess player in the history of the world. Okay, my my father in
law is a ranked player, So dude, my father in law love chess
too. Yes, he has some book like how to Play Chess for Duby's
that he gave me once speak. So when when I started doing, my
wife, she's making the chess because her dad is right, and so she
beat me like every time. And it was not like legit, like let
me litter win because I want this girl I started dating to like him.
I was a legit trying. But because I've been playing since I was a
kid that my dad taught me chess, I was in chess club for a
little bit. I enjoy playing it. You know, I used to play
a lot of computer chess back in the day. I like chess, and
it's a real different vibe though, when you're playing like a computer or whatever
and then you're playing like a real person. Although I remember when I was
a kid, we had a it was a game called Battle Chess. It
was like the most badass chess game ever. And it's like like you have
nights and monsters. Yeah, it was like that that Marines commercial where he's
fighting a lava monster, Like that's kind of what of his like right,
like a rook. And anyway, I like chess, so maybe that's another
reason I kind of inclined to these episodes. But anyway, I recommend I
recommend chess. It's a nice it's cool to just like you know, and
this is we're so plugged in everything, right, turn off your screens and
and just turn off the Wi Fi and go sit down there with somebody and
play it. Lay a nice rounded chess. So anyway, now, if
there were a Smavel chess set, of course i'd buy that too. Mm
hmm. You have Clark and Lois. There's the King and Queen. Uh,
let's seea on the other side, Malexcelon on the other side. Very
good. It just be the Bishop Oliver the Night. It's it's easier to
do ponds on Lexus side because you got Roger Nixon. Doctor. You want
to you want to do individual ponds. That's like most of these most of
these specialized chess sets, they don't have the ponds are just like one thing,
right, Like when I say, like a Jurassic Park chess set,
it's like the velociraptors are all so you could just do the worst freaks of
the week. Yeah, because then oh man Sean who should have been Icicle?
Yeah right, that's the thing right there. They're like, oh,
this is inspired by Oh no, we're here now we're going to do that
one. Yeah. I don't know that'd be fun. Lie would probably be
the king, Lionel will be the king, and then I guess you could
have Test be the queen. Over there, you might do Jonathan and Martha
as the Rooks. Oh, you should have Martha be the queen. Oh,
the red Queen, the red Queen. I mean, not display anything,
but yeah, there's a new player on the board, okay, anywhere
and always black and white, small little chess sets, y'all. I'm sure
someone out there has probably made one anyway, but all have to say,
I would love to learn how play each is it? Is it that different?
Eric? If you look at it from the top, it's chess,
But then you're missing the outside rose. And that's what those movable ones are
for, is to fill in that missing one. But you can choose because
they overlap, you can choose to stay on just the one boarder you can
move up. But other than that, like, if you look at it
from the top, it's the same game. Got you well, the way
they always do it on Star Trek. It's like night to Queen's Level three
And like that sounds really intimidating, Like this sounds yeah, it's chess,
all right, all right? Anyway, chess everyone, we recommend it.
So where were we? So yes, so so Clark he's a chess piece
and knows that it's that it's tests and he x rays her office and sees
the whole like we're talking about the whole, you know, men in black
or whatever you want to call it, like just just guns and knives and
behind all these walls. I don't know when she installed this. I guess
she added this after she took over early office to Lex didn't have that there.
Let me cut to the Checkmate castle, another beautiful establishing shot, and
uh, Marshall menhunter is there, and he's there to to steal back the
Candorian blood. I mean, I'm sure they've gotten what they needed from the
blood by now though, right, No, they just have it on display,
nothing else. Just like there's no computer backups of video footage ever.
You know, once you once you erase somebody's mind. Oh yeah, you're
you're good, that's right. I guess I guess they erased all the cameras
too. That's a little yeah. Yeah. But Waller once again appears in
silhouette, and uh, I think this is a really good conversation between her
and Martian Renhunter because she's talking about prepping for a war and he's like,
you're only seeing that because you're coming from a place of fear. They don't
need you harm and she's like, no, we were studying fear is important.
It also can be insightful into someone's phobias. And then this firewall comes
up around Martian Renhunter and she's like, hmmm, a police officer who never
goes near fire. I'm like, well, technically it's a firefighters job.
But is she confusing a policeman with a firefighter. Yeah, it's also really
good that John was standing in that exact place on the floor. Yeah.
I thought about that too. Like again, it's all added in posts,
so they didn't want to build like a like it would be cool to see
like a cage drop down or something, right, but like we have the
money for that, so it's like we'll just add a little circle. And
I'm sure that it's fine. But this is this shows the strategy. I
mean, it's all about checkmate chess strategy, right they move, Yeah,
that's it's on the chess pieces on the floor, guys, But no,
it shows you that they operate the intelli. These are intelligent villains. They're
like they've studied their opponents. They're like, well, I'm pretty sure this
guy has a version of fire. And it reminds me of have you guys
read or seen the New Frontier Combooker movie when Batman's talking to Martian Manhunter and
he's like, cost me a million dollars to get a slever of rock to
stop that one of Metropolis, But you a pity for a matchbook is all
I need. I'm like, yeah, Batman's so I don't like I like
the I mean Marshal manner, as we especially see in this episode super overpowered,
So you need something as simple as fire to kind of neutralize. So
that's that's good weaknesses for heroes. Yeah, but with the way that that's
just up on the sides and like he can fly right, just can he
clear that in his headroom? I don't know, but that's pretty badass,
like capturing him like that, Like I was like, this is this is
legit. Like with Checkmate, they've really proved themselves to be capable other than
letting Green Arrow escape. But we're gonna put that one on tests because she's
rusty. I want to say on the on the point of like the enemies
are being really informed and doing their homework. I mean, I think that
speaks to a really nice sophistication of the show and made that goes without saying.
But when you start off and it's just sort of one off people with
you know, unique powers, and you take care of them in an episode
or two, and then now really in this adult phase of it's not the
playground, it's not high school anymore. It's really this intense thing where the
strategies you may have relied on in the past are not it anymore. Or
it's not just about brute strength, like the system and the organizations as the
enemies and not just the individual players. No, that's a fantastic point,
I mean, and that's that's more like the real world too, right,
We're not we're not out there fighting like I mean, you know you are,
but like you know that when you fight like institutions, that that's what's
so interesting about to me, Like Luthor's Superman and the Prime Superman screer of
like he's fighting like the mad and the establishment or whatever right way more,
that's when people like what Suman is any challenges, I'm like, no,
he's got to fight like like public opinion and red tape and corporate America like
those are those are tough enemies. And yeah, that's definitely a sophistication of
others. It's a good call there for us. So uh another, hey,
look, another sophistication of the show. I'll say this Coly goes to
the hospital going through the charts to some doctor. He's like, excuse me,
those are my charts. She's like, yeah, yeah, sure,
if that's your real name. That that was a Stranger Thing's reference, right
because clearly doctor Brenner, Wow, I didn't even catch that. So someone
on Stranger Things was a big, small event, clearly, clearly, clearly.
So she's like, yeah, I'm moving for one of your patients you
signed off on to go to Bell Reeve. But apparently never mike that look
of for icycle they say his real name here, which I don't know if
they were said actually in the absolutely just this episode. But so he's like
real like mean to her. But then she starts doing a Batman Owne clone
thing from BBS. But this guy, he's got a counter scam right again,
These these guys know what they're doing. Like he's like, oh uh,
you know, phone scan detected, so he like sees that she's doing
that, so changes is too. He's like, oh, you know what,
it's had kind of a long day because she's being rude. Let me
walk you down there and we can find this out together. And you're like,
oh, Chloe's about to get Now. It's a good tease because like,
oh they cloys about to be in trouble, but then to just because
it's Smallville and we have to be as specific as possible. When they walk
off, you gotta like zoom in on his chess piece. He's got like,
yeah, I kind of figured out he was on Checkmate. I guess
as much, but thanks for letting me know for sure. But how many
scenes in Smallville do we see like Chloe goes in and does a little thing
and gets what she needs and that's it. But I'm like, no,
no, no, the real world is much more complicated than that. And
I really like how they got we have people everywhere. It's quantum of solace.
That's what Checkmate is, right, So yeah, they're highly sophisticated,
but they're leaving evidence everywhere. Well, nobody's perfect. Yeah, if they
didn't have this obsession with chess, there'd be a lot they get a lot
more done under the table because that you're right, because all the pieces literally
the pieces chess pieces they're putting together, the pieces Clark and all these people
are seeing these things. Hey real, real quick about chess pieces again,
because this this is the episode. Have you guys seen the take in movies?
Yeah? All right, so Taken three. I really like Forest Whitaker,
although he's the worst host of the Twilight Zone, I would do like
I do like Forest Whittaker. He is like that this police detective and Taking
three and they thought we'll give him a tick, and they thought, no,
no, no, let's give him two ticks. So he's playing with
a rubber band the whole movie. But he also has a chess pieces cares
around the whole tide. I'm like, what do you what do you remember,
checkmate? Taking three is not good. It's unfortunate because I really like
the first take. It is fantastic. Taken two, I'm like, well,
that's a movie that never needed a sequel, but actually for what it
was, I'm like, okay, it makes sense. Revenge of all the
people that leave us and killed him in the first one. The third one
really pushes the credibility. Also, they kill off mk Jansen, which I
don't like spoilers, and they recast they recast Standard Berkeley with Dungray Scott,
the almost Wolverine. But I was making this impossible to what an amazing altered
universe that would have been, you know, Batwoman's dad. It's just like,
because the whole thing about the first take, I'm sorry, was tangier.
But the whole thing about the first taken was like, oh, yeah,
you have this kind of dick stepdad character. But he's not like a
bad guy villain. He's just a dude, right. But the third one
was like, oh yeah, he's a villain and he killed his ex wife
and I'm like, come on, man, Although Liam, he'sroon driving a
car into a plane. It was pretty badass. Yes, I owe it
all those on Blue Ray. Anyway, that's where we went forst Whitaker's tossing
around a night. For some reason, the whole movie it's like, Okay,
you're a quirky detective guy. So well, it does remind me a
little bit of Home Alone, when Marv is like every good bandit has every
every good thief has their gimmick. We are the Wet Bandits. So he
floods every house he's in. Hey, you want to have a good moniker
like that, because if you don't, who knows what they're gonna call you.
So so then Test pulls Oliver into like the bedroom there and uh,
you know he has he has a line about this. I had to drag
me back into here. Huh And uh she says, the best thing I
ever did in this bed was kick you out of it. It's like damn
again, Like I love their inner play, like this is this is good
stuff with the two of them, and uh, they talk about him being
the green arrow and she mentions tights and he's like, they're not tights.
They're not tights. Like he's really defensive about it. They look like,
yeah, I don't think they look like it, but sure, well it
works for the for the one of the most quoted lines ever, at least
for me in my life is like the Joker from Batman and he's like he's
at home washing his tights. Like I don't think Batman wear was tights in
those movies. But that's where we are, right But you know, alis
like you're you're here keeping more secrets than LEC's ever had and you know what's
you know? And then she starts just throwing stuff at him, like a
vase and a night like this isn't a cartoon, which they're about to go
like full mister and missus Smith I think on each other here, right,
But then Clark shows up. He's like, stop both of you, and
I guess he searched ever for tests and this where he shows up in full
blur attire and he's like, you're gonna tell me everything you know about check
me. She's like, I'm not gonna tell you anything, and he's like,
maybe maybe a different view will change your opinion, and he goes full
Batman on her, holds her over a building. Now some would say this
isn't very Superman. I would say this is like Golden age Superman. I
kind of like it when he's a little bit of bad ask because look,
he's not gonna drop her catch her, right, so like he's in complete
Honestly, it's probably he's safer for Supermanager this than Batman. But like Brandon,
did this bother you to see him taking such extreme interrogation methods. Well,
I wrote my notes Clark with the Batman move. He's wearing all black,
he's kind of in his Batman era. I do, I do question
the safety of it, because it would be safe for a fully fledged Superman.
But he still can't fly, so if he drops her, it's not
like you just fly down and catch her. He'll just jump down like it
did with Lana. Land on a car. Yeah, the fings is the
physics of that doesn't exactly work. Okay, So so it's Batman from the
Dark Knight Catches are in lands on the car. I'm counting on it.
I will say I'm gonna go on record and say that I'm not a real
fan of Clark being this drastic, but I'm gonna introduce it different angle,
which is we were just in the mansion in Smallville, and we came all
the way to threaten tests on top of the I think the watchtower, so
it's out of the watch shower of the building they're always at that he fights
at. And yeah, so could you have just helded tests on top of
the mansion. We don't have that. Actually, I would say we don't
have that set, but we do have that set. We have the balcony
set of the mansion. Yeah, Chloe felt from that ones and yeah,
yeah, it was just a little far to travel for it. But you
got to pick a higher spot, like the Dark Knight. I suppose Chloe's
falling out of the mansion and not died. He knows that's not a real
threat to Test, true point, So she tells him she's like, okay,
Well, one month after she started working in Luther Corp. She was
approached by the White Queen, and that's Waller's code name. I respect him
not making her the Black Queen. I don't know if that's be a little
more on point. I don't just interesting that they chose that. I'm just
let's move on. But uh uh, Tests didn't really know like what their
angles were they wanted she went to like secrets about Luther Corp. I gotta
look at the timeline on this, like like when she started to quote unquote
work at Luther Corp. Because again, she never knew that she was Test's
uh, she never knew that she was likes a sister, So interesting stuff.
It makes sense that they want someone on the inside of Luther Corp.
Right, you got to have your players everywhere, right, you got to
get all your pawns everybody. But the question is how many of each do
they have? Is there just one of each? Or do they have you
know, infinite and hundreds of whatever. Oh, you're thinking that the chessboard
equates to one check Maybe maybe now that would be be very limited, but
I'd be on par for small Vale standards. Everything's small scale, right.
I do appreciate that Tests is involved in this sort of on her own,
given how much she inherited from from Lex, and with such a replacement for
that, like, I appreciate that this is not a carryover, but it
also makes me curious when Lex comes back what what he finds out about these
organizations or maybe what he knew all along that that we never found out about
as you know the viewers, but comes back he knows way too much and
then obviously the end he knows nothing. So but you know, in the
comics and Inustice League, the Lex Luthor and Amanda Waller, you know,
you know they're they're connected, So yeah, that that would have been We'll
love to see someone that on. But she tells Clark that he didn't tell
Checkmate about him or the Candorians, and Oliver wasn't even the target. It
was something called Watchtower. Cut to Chloe being kidnapped and now she's at Checkmate
h Q. So tess it goes to Oliver after this, and she's upset,
and he's like, what the hell do you want? Oliver, wouldn't
you can be a little proactive right now, like you're just chilling your office.
I'm not sure what I again, he went three hours to his office.
I guess he took that. He took the helicopter back. But she
tells him that that the Clark made her tell him where Checkmate tench quarter is,
so Clark is in trouble. And uh. Also that the reason that
he forced Tests to tell him were Checkmate tench quarter was because she told him
about them having Watchtower. So obviously Oliver knows who that is. So we
kind of leave this here, and I kind of like forgot about the scene
to the end. I thought Marshall Manhunter did the power outage, but I
guess it was Green Arrow. But but we'll get there in the second.
But again, like I love the interplay between Tests and Oliver, Like these
are one of the smartest things they did. I've said it many times,
was connecting her to his past and kind of they they like helped legitimize quote
unquote each other in the world of Smallville. Like it just it works really
well. And the you know, a couple of great actors with some great
chemistry, so all their stuff together is always great. Uh. And I
guess we're gonna get less of it now that Oliver's with Chloe so Yay mentioned
at the end that she has freckles, but I never seen. Yeah,
well not that we've seen, but he has clearly so Marshall Manhunter, who
we can assume has been shape shifting this whole time, right because obviously he
doesn't look like Phil Morris. He looks like a green guy that we saw
for five seconds in Absolute Justice. This is the first time he see him
straight up shafe shift into somebody else first and last time, because he shaped
shifts into Amanda Waller and like some checkmate Asian security guys just walking by.
It's like, hey, hey, let me out of here. Though the
prisoner overpowered me and stuck here, and now he's like, oh sure.
He turns off the thing and he's like, well, that's weird. Those
many alarm and then he turns back into you know, John Jones and he's
like, that's because I'm still here and gives him the like again, uses
this telebilate to like knock him out. Huh h. Gives him the old
mind meld to wipe his mind and make things yeah, like and again this
is this is his best episode, like the full display of his powers here
like like, but this is why he's not in a lot episodes, because
he could solve all these problems like immediately, right, he can't interfere with
Clark's journey. That's right, he's under strict orders. I mean, he
almost died a few times in the first six seasons, but we're not gonna
worry about that. How about the time he literally died in season five.
He knew he was gonna be fine. He was at the store getting oreo.
Yeah he he he left arst atmosphere to heal. But no, this
is just bad ass to see him ship like this is the fully formed comic
book Martian Manhunter. We see operating here, like he's shaped shifting, he's
using philepathy. He's just like, this is cool stuff. So then we
see Clark in silhouette confronting Waba with his time so kind of I don't know
that's sort of intentional power dynamic shift, but the visual storytelling that is really
cool. I think I love her lying here. She's like, I preferred
your colors when they were more patriotic, which is exactly what she would say.
Like it's not just some BS reference, It's like that is this character
would say that. He says kidnapping is illegal even for the government. I'm
like, oh, Clark is so naive. He doesn't know, he doesn't
know how the world words yet. But then she starts talking to like,
we have aliens here that want more than just green cards, and I'm like,
hey, this is a character who would talk this way again, like
it's everything she's saying tracks and we're really in a this is like a post
nine to eleven America thing, checkmate, right, because because she basically tells
Clark, look, if you're not with us, then you're against us.
So I'm like, well, this is where we are, right, But
it makes sense I mean small in the shadow at nine to eleven, like
it makes sense these government organizations. And so I would have liked this whole
exchange between Clark and Waller here. I did wonder because in I think in
two episodes Clark has like that or like you see some behind the scenes stuff
where he has that green ass to help with bring his face in the shadows.
I wonder if that stem from this one, because in this episode he's
supposed to be in the shadows, but you can still clearly see his face
and h she tells me, you know, to come out and maybe we'll
we'll get there in a second. But I'm wondering if they tried that in
this episode and it just didn't quite work out how they wanted to. So
that's why they were able to adjust for a later episode, and that's more
of what they were going for. Yeah, I remember, I know what
you're talking about. I think it's I think it's other like Charad or Masquerade
or one of those where were I'm like, why is why is Clark on
this great house when his chest and it's it's you know, it's it's so
they could literally black him out but show the s in the shadows. And
Uh, you're absolutely right, because when she's like you need to step out
of the shadows, I thought she was talking about like metaphorically yeah, but
he's like, oh, you mean, just like come closer. I want
to hear your face. Yeah, She's like you sure are nice to look
at. Just good good dialogue. Right, But then he's like gonna I
think he's like gonna like attack her. I don't know what he's gonna do.
But she's like anything happens to me, then bye bye Blondie. Because
they have you know, Lois uh so before you it's up there, they
have Chloe tied up in another room and you know this occurred to me like
this is a real Superman story, Like this would be Superman talking Man of
Waller and they've kidnapped Lois Lane. Right, that's basically what this is.
But it's sir small of will that it's not always lowest in trouble or it's
not always you spreading that around. Its actually expands the world. So I
do like that. And she wants his Algians to checkmate and if not,
they're gonna kill Chloe. And he's like that's the murder. She's like,
it's not murder, it's strategy. I'm like, damn, but that's this
is Amanda Waller, Like this is this is straight up right. So she
also wants the database of all the Watchtower people, like she names off the
Justice League Black Canary, Aukaman impulse, not the Flagh impulse. Cyborg.
You know, there was a long pause before she said Cyborg seemed very intentional
Cyborg. It's like, oh, did you not? Were you not to
know about that one? No? No, Angel of Vengeance though she didn't
make the cut, so uh, she just wasn't seen clear enough. But
then again with the chess terminology your move, which is generic dialogue in somewhere
else, but for these people who are talking chess terms, that's like really
smart. Like I'm like, okay, this is like I don't know,
I'm really picking up with putting down with the intentional dialogue here. So while
this conversation is going on, Martian Manhutter, Okay, let's talk about this.
Uh he has like rainbow heat vision. Now, yeah, I guess
they had to make it look different. It's just it's just rainbow vision.
I don't I don't remember Martian man Hunter having heat vision anywhere? Does he
was? Isn't that what he used to kill Batista? I thought he's just
like he last Yeah, if I like phase through and pulled out some testines
or something, right, But am I wrong here? Like I don't again,
a Martian men Hunter is not at the top of my comp acknology list,
But it wouldn't make sense because he's he's vulnerable to fire. Why would
he have heat vision. Yeah, it's just like if all the powers,
like he can phase through things, he can he can fly, he can
meet your mind, Like, can we just not give him that? Like
if there was I've heard this talked about before, and I agree with that,
Like, if there was one power that Superman had, video would take
away, it would be heat vision because it's like it solves too many problems,
you know, It's like, oh, I can just stand a thousand
feet away and I don't know, burn down two towers and antown. Right.
So anyway, speaking of post nine eleven America, this should all been
a response to like if they like I'd applied, I applaud season nine for
being well thought out, but if they really wanted to go there, like
Checkmate doing all this, she had been bonds to, like like we don't
want this happening a third time. Yeah, Like this is like, hey,
we just had a terrorist attack. Let's let's let's rank up the patriot
Let's ramp up the Patriot Act. Here guys, So I don't maybe they
think the Candorians did that. I don't know that they could have tied that
together somehow, but that might have been a little too a little too on
the nose. But I would say, how how do you get more on
the nose than what they already did with that visual? I don't know.
So anyway, Yeah, but Marsha Manutter destroys the Candorian blood. I guess
they have no files about it. They have not a backup. And then
there's a power failure, and watching this this time, I was like,
oh, obviously Marsha Manner did that on his way out right, That's what
I thought. Apparently not Apparently Test told Green Arrow how to shut down the
power at check my hayequarters. Only that's only there to give them like some
emotional beat at the end there. But it doesn't make sense story wise.
He literally had the phasing fly guy flying around your headquarters. He could have
just done all that. But Clark in this chaos, Clark uses a superhero
to hear where Chloe is because it's that same guy's the doctor Guy Strange.
You think, yeah, doctor Brenner, he's gonna kill Chloe and He's like
a white queed. Do we have a go? Do I have the shot?
Right? And this is an extremely artistic, but very memorable and very
cool save. Let's let's discuss for us what'd you think it's It's funny because
going into this to to rewatch for for today, that's like the only scene
that stands out of course, and they use a little bit of h Clark
I think in some promo stuff for the credits or something with with this one.
But it's definitely I think artistic is a great way to put it.
It's memorable. I was trying to think if it's a little corny or kind
of a cop out, but I think it's cool that that you're actually that
we see the stages of the save and not the full story. Yeah,
I mean coming to this episode, that was the one scene that I definitely
remembered from this episode before going in. I think, you know, especially
if you don't have the budget for a really cool look and fight, it's
a really awesome way to do it. Yeah. I thought it was great,
But I did have a question. Maybe you guys can help me out
here. So with the blinking lights, how fast are they going? Before
he goes into super speed. Did they suddenly get faster for him to be
like moving from place to place with it blinking timing? Just didn't. But
it did look great. I loved it. That's me being nitpicky. It's
my inner Rosenbomb coming out. But ye, yeah, overall it looked great.
It was fun. It wlocks that fine line of like, Okay,
I understand why you do this to save money, but also it's a really
it's a creative way to show this and we haven't seen like this before,
right with like the just snapshots of what he's doing. H faster than a
speeding bullet. Oh my god. A right, But also a really nice
touch at the end is he gets Chloe and then the light flickers and they're
just gone. There's no super speeding effect. There's there's no sound. I
don't know. It's a very. It's a it's a very. It's like
a it's like a micro short film about Superman saving someone, like a student
film Superman. Right. I just I thought it was fantastic And I don't
know what. I don't know where it started. They didn't start with a
creative idea. They start with like, hey, guys, we spent way
too much money on the CGI Castle. We have no money left. How
do we get to show this? So anyway? I mean to me,
this is one of the standouts, as you all said, like of this
episode, this is this is where my mind goes. So then we get
a scene where Clark apologizes to Chloe at the watchtower and I don't like this
vibe. I don't care for this vibe. It's all like, well,
you won me on the sidelines and I thought you'd be safe for there.
I don't know, but Eric, what did do you? Can you explain
to me why this exists? I wish I could, man, I really
wish I could. I think, you know, each each episode of Smallville,
at the end, they always have the I learned a lot from this
episode moment, you know, And I feel like that was kind of getting
or trying to get into that but didn't quite get there, you know,
because Chloe was just like, you know, you saw me as a big
brother and so you backed off. I get that, and you know they
kind of had a somewhat of a heart to heart. But that's that's what
I kind of figured that was was just there. I learned so much from
this episode moment, But as you said, it just didn't really work as
well. Well, they seemed they seemed like they were cool in the last
episode or so, like this seems like this is a conversation that should have
like at the beginning of the season where they were more like because then I
understood why they were like mad at each other for various reasons. But now
it's just like, what do you what are we talking about here? Like
it's just rama for the sake of drama. So I don't know is your
is your opinion lowering or raising of Chloe Brandon? What do you think?
Oh? Yeah, I think I think Chloe should have gone away in like
season five probably. I think every everything after that, Chloe kind of goes
downhill because for me, she ends high school. She's kind of the mature
one of the group that almost would have liked it. When Clark's kind of
getting back together with Lana, She's just like, you know what, I'm
done with this high school stuff. I'm out of here, like takes off
and makes her own life after that, yeah, moves to Star City.
It would ended up in the same place right well, with all these characters
like like Lana, like run out of stuff to do, Lois. It's
like the opposite where they're like they waited to do anything with her to the
end, and that's why she can stick around for so long. It's like,
we're gonna get all that nonsense we give the other characters at the end
of their time on the show. We're gonna give you that for the beginning
of your time the show, Lewis, So that's why she works at the
end. But no, no, I agree. So it's unfortunate because like
there was a there was a moment there, like like a warrior where I
was well back on board with Chloe, and I'm like, yeah, so
I don't know, Forresty, do you think she should have left at some
point or they should have done something else with her? I can see that.
I mean, the core friendship of the show is Clark and Chloe,
even through some questionable things. So mostly I find myself in like season nine
and ten, really aching for the fact that their friendship has so much tumult
and with Alison Mack not being so present in season ten, it's really like,
I don't know that Chloe and Clark had a really good sort of closure
or celebration at the end. So sitting and watching this now is just kind
of like, oh bummer, Like we're not we're not heading toward a high
note with them necessarily. I'm not saying there's good stuff well a little bit
with them coming, but it just feels a little bit like kind of a
let down. See you in the Funny Papers, Yep, yep, that's
the last one. Yep. I'm kind of it's not a cartoon. Yeah,
I'm with Zach. Where I think Chloe should have died saving Clark,
or even just that time where she saved Lous and just traded lives for I
think that would have been a good stepping off point. Yeah. I mean
that's the thing, right, when you have actors, you have stories,
like so many other things to consider of like but the like, if you
just look at things from a story purely a story thing, things would be
different. But because we got contracts and seizes and actors and like, well
we can't lose everybody, and like the time they're like, well we got
at least have somebody. Then the Clark has been here the whole time,
and yeah, she's still doing or watched everything the proto Felicity smoke she's she's
running watch Tower and she is dating the Green Arrow. So Smallville is the
blueprint. Now get a little wrap up at uh Well, first of two
wrap ups at the at the at the clock, first of two wrap ups
at the Checkmate headquarters. John Jones again like kind of silhouette, I guess.
He shows up with Amanda Waller and she's like, did you catch them?
I can't wait to see the look on their faces. And then which
I think is a little slide dialogue to talk about you're not gonna see their
faces, so that was pretty clever. And then he hand blasts, we're
gonna use that terminology now, yes, And we see like, you know,
going through her mind, and we see Oliver's face and Clark's face and
Chloe's face and erasing that knowledge. And look, this is visual shorthand,
right, so we can assume that you know, he he erased from everybody.
Nobody knows about them anymore. Like this is what this is showing us,
so you know, well, he didn't leave the computers too. I
don't know, Like this tells me that he cleaned everything up, right,
And then she wakes up and has no idea what's going on so I like
how they I like how they clean that up, and you know they that's
probably why they went over the top to show like he had to lempathy powers
this episode. They're like, did we mention that before? We better established
that earlier. So but that was clever, Like it was. It's a
good way to clean up the mess they had made. But really all their
secret identities. And then we get Oliver and Tests. They're out in a
public place. Oliver was like, well, I figure there's less stuff to
kill me with here I'm in public. It's pretty good. She's like,
hey, I told you how to shut down the security systems that checking the
Haye quarters. And again justin Hartley, so he's like, so you want
to do like a handstand now that you that you helped solve a problem,
that you created, such a good line, such a good line, some
really good makeup on tests here too, like to make it like it's like
makeup that doesn't look like makeup. It looks like she's like been upset and
she's just kind of disheveled. Like I mean, Cassidy Freeman is still beautiful,
but like you know what I'm saying, like she's not all like made
up with eyeshadow like she has and so many other scenes, so subtle stuff.
But she's like she's really she's really desperate here right, and she she
thinks Checkmate might come after her, so she's gonna go off the gride,
She's gonna go a wall and uh in the Great Arrow event, all of
her. He just he is twisted knife. He's like, so tell me,
tell me this that did it hurt to do to do something moral for
once? Tests? Like, damn? Is he too hard on her hair?
Yes? I don't know. I feel like she wanted a friend and
he's just like not now they just like cut her loose. It reminds me
of how emotional Test is in early season ten when when they bring her into
the Fold officially and how seriously she takes being trusted, and so I'm like, it's the