Hellllo, ladies and gentlemen, and what a wonderful day. We are here
for The Geek first six hundred and thirteenth episode, The Plan of the Apes,
sorry, the Kingdom of the Plan of the Apes review we have done.
Oh, I can't remember how many retros there was. What there was?
I think five original, the remake, so we're eight or nine.
But we're at the end here, man, we're at the end. I'm
just feeling just as sure as a rock is covered in chills already, funds
like the beginning. It doesn't feel like the end. It feels like the
beginning. Yeah, the reason even started. I'm covered in chills already,
But I am the clown Prince of Evolution Tress now, and I'm joined by
what a wonderful day. She's like, shut the fuck up the echo,
taylor Field. Yes, Lazia, And as we said, if this is
your first time tuning in The Geek first, maybe you're just waiting for this
Apes review and whatnot, you can go back we did in honor of this
to lead up. We talked about the retro many times, but we did
a retrospective, which is just reviewing the old films but looking back at you
know what they did with the franchise filming the time, there's trivia, lots
of good stuff go back. Not only were they fun discussions, because tons
of the APES movies like we'll get into today have lots of uh you know,
identity politics and cover racial things and preachest there was just one or two
great memes always born along the way, whether it's no all they'll know whether
it was how do orangue tanks have sex with their hands? There's tons of
fun stuff. I feel like just the whole Tim Burton remake retro was a
good time because of what a wild movie that was. But yeah, here
we are. We went through all those movies. Next week we will be
doing a ranking, so as usual, we'll rank the films. We'll right
the villains, will probably rank the scenes as well, and yeah, that
should be a good time, so look up for that. That will close
us off until we get another APES, which I think we should. Hopefully
tracking is right and it's gonna do what it does, and if so,
we should be getting some more. So that's a hopeful thing. And huh
tell me just as sure as rock. But head down below for everything you
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look out for that. Uh but uh yeah, ladies and John, we
are here. So mister Field, what did you think of Kingdom of the
Planet of the Apes. I love this movie. This is this is my
number one of the year so far. I'm fucking kidding. Are you fucking
kidding me? Oh yeah, come on, I don't want to edit this
episode. I don't want to edit. Oh look, the Club of Fire
isn't there? Yeah, I know, I'm I am. I'm placing at
number one. I just this is like Dune is definitely there for for for
I don't with your Dune flack. You know people people love Dune and and
for me, like I I remember feeling I like the first one more than
the second one. I think that's how I said. It is what I
said. That's what I said, if you remember. Okay, Yeah,
so for me, Apes is definitely just it's my jam. I I love
this new apes series that they've just pumping out, and just the way that
this movie started caught me off guard, and the way that they tackled certain
things in this movie caught me off guard. It felt even though we saw
what the general twist was and the narrative was with the trailers, I still
felt like I was surprised and I was really taken aback by just certain things
going on in this movie. I really really enjoyed it, and I think
it. Madison said this too, like it was not as heavy as the
other ones. Well, I always appreciate that heaviness. This one was nice
just to kind of have a reprieve from from that tone and really set up
of a very interesting new universe here that is hopefully gets to be explored further.
I'm just super hype on this film. I really do want to go
see it again already. And the two and a half hours that this movie
was it did not feel like it. I felt like I could have done
more easily, throwing like another extra half hour. I was just I was
loving everything about this film. It was hard to keep my my excitement contained
before this review because I didn't want to allude to how I was feeling about
it. But yeah, this movie was great and like you were yeah,
you were smirking when we leave it. I was like, keep your secrets,
okay, Oh yeah it was good. It was good. I wanted
to listen to the score one more time before coming on the cast, but
they don't have it. So I compiled a separate playlist just to kind of
get me into the movie. Listen to water Wall all day or something.
I re recorded the music by memory, like, but it sounds nothing like
it in the Hall Thunder it. I don't know if you can see it,
but it's called Ape Day Feels. No, I can't see it.
What the tracks are on there? I see that. I shouldn't leave my
wife playlist that one I got Gamers, Grow Feels and The Ranch Life.
But the Ranch Life is my that's my ranch life, yellow Stone, you
show me. Yeah, I don't know the the Ape Day Feels though.
It's just it's just a bunch of like it's mostly Michael's tracks because he just
popped off some of the best scores. No, not that Michael. There's
one rise Michael. Yeah, you're just just rocking to ape score and then
like track for its like, yeah, just imagine this movie that we found
something and like they find this record that's the only music they have is Michael
Jackson. I can't stress enough though, if you are on the fence but
seeing this movie, or you're just you're not sure, go see this movie.
I think everyone should see this movie in theaters. I think it's absolutely
wonderful. I had a great time seeing it with We took up the whole
row. We had a whole posse. That was great. Yeah, this
is just it. This is a great freaking movie. I always can see
it. Though, if you're if you watch Movio's alone, fuck you can't.
It says the beginning, They're like, you better be here with friends,
you know, mister pats Er. Was it a wonderful night film?
Yeah, it was a wonderful day for sure. Taylor mentioned we had the
the whole posse pull up, so it was a good positive vibes going into
it. I'm a little bit like conflicted on this one though, because I
feel like my overall feels I'm still a little puzzled on like where I am.
Solidly, I feel like I was really hyped leading up to it,
just because you know, we did we did all the the retros. This
was the first ACE we've ever seen in theaters too, so that was kind
of like a big moment. I think that this movie has fantastic like first
and second act, and I think there's moments in the third act that are
really good. And Taylor, you mentioned that you wanted like more to it.
I think this could have been fucking another two hours, like like,
I feel like I feel like that there's there's moments in the beginning that are
really maybe slow, and like you know, I feel like that could be
seen as a negative. I don't. I don't see as a negative at
all. I think that the pacing is really good for what they're doing,
but it just feels like they just crank up the speed at the end and
there's just so many things that they just rush through that like certain conflicts that
we just get resolved, and like by the end of it, when we
kind of deal with our main threat, I'm just I was really like,
is that actually it? Like I was just waiting for another consequence type thing
to come in for our protagonists to tackle. So I think because it just
rushed so quickly near the end, I was actually just left puzzled. Then
we have. Yeah, I don't mind. I'll say that for spoilers,
but yeah, I am a little bit conflicted. I think that this is
a beautifully made film, just you know, like we mentioned on the retro,
just with this new era of Apes movies, what they're able to do
with the mocap and everything, Like, this movie just looks so beautiful.
And I really like to just see the planet of the Apes year like hundreds
of years afterwards, and like just just really see like the vegetation overgrowth and
just see how these Apes factions are kind of just divving up into their own
actual like factions and clans and stuff. So that was really cool to see,
really love seeing. Just like I really really liked our new protagonists as
well. I thought that, you know, saying goodbye to Caesar after the
last movie might feel weird just getting all new characters, but I actually felt
like quite attached to our main protagonists and just his struggles. So yeah,
I thought they did a really good job with that, really good job.
Like, like it's it's tough to like pick out like what my issues are
other than just the fact that I think maybe we should have spent a lot
more time with trying to avoid spoilers here, but just like like with our
our main Proxima Proximus Caesar type threat, like it just seemed like that was
really quick in my mind, and I only think it feels that way because
of the earlier portions felt more drawn out, But I wouldn't have wanted to
shorten them, Like I really like what those are. I'm hoping maybe there's
just some like extended cut in a vault somewhere that they're gonna release that like
has a lot more extension to later portions of the film, because I really
think that brings it down quite a bit for me. And while like while
I was in the chair eat my popcorn, maybe like an hour in,
I was thinking that this might be better than Dawn, like like it had
that potential. But I just think what happens near the end for me,
like the third act in particular, is just yeah, it was. It
was unfortunate. I was wanting more, and I think they just had such
great ingredients to make it like a perfect film and like truly a perfect film.
I'm I'm you know, I'm choosing my words carefully there, but I
think this had potential for that, but uh, I don't think it was
so yeah, not my movie of the year. I'm glad Taylor absolutely loved
it. Was a good time for sure, what a wonderful day. There's
some fun moments for sure that came out of it. But uh yeah,
a little bit up set with how it ended. But if you watched the
version with them in the mo cap serious, so that be better for that
to be the change. Yeah, maybe I like the first act less.
I guess, maybe be more on the Jackson tracks too. I want to
see that version release the whatever that yeah with the Jackson cut, I guess
Planet of the Jackson's, Planet of the Jackson's. Yeah, I'll pass it
off there. I want to get in the spoilers, so yeah, little
skip Travis, buckle up. I'm gonna do a forty minute non spoiler here.
But uh uh no. Three notes. One, they played the trailer
before the movie. And when I say the trail, I mean the trailer
to this movie, not a because Kirkland was trying to assure me it's it's
a cell phone. Because every time that happens they have a trailer right before
the movie, it's usually like your phone phone. Yeah, yeah, and
it's like nothing to do with the movie like this is so cruise comes at
the beginning. Thanks for coming to see the movies at the at the movies,
h Jackson, Thank you for singing the Apes movie. Oh my god,
how many times did you say his name? Man? You summoned them
in your house For the audio listeners, Travis's poster behind him just fall behind
his head. One of them is shining too, So that's a bad omen.
After I finished my non sport thoughts me take that down. Good thing
they didn't fall, But I'm sorry, miss mister Jackson. Just be real,
you know. Uh. So, yeah, we got the trailer for
it came to the Apes whatever, Kingdom, I'm just gonna call Kingdom.
I'm gonna say a fucking long time. We got the trailer for Kingdom before
the movie. We all thought it was not that so, uh that wasn't
great. I was half convinced that it was going to like be a different
movie. It wasn't. Two. My my wife was not there, so
she was She's not a part of the crew, as they've both referred to
this crew. So that's a mental note for me. It also the posse,
well the posse. Yeah, so the posse. She's not part of
the posse's that's two. I'll bring that up awkwardly when we're camping three the
movie. Ah, I'm very excited next week for the rankings episode because much
the thoughts that Kirkling had, I thought those were gonna be my thoughts,
and they still are, but I thought I was gonna be saying them first.
But I think I'm pretty in line with Kirkle where I think Acts one
act two are very strong. I'm not gonna say like perfect because I have
to watch that again, but like, I don't have too many really critiques
about those acts. I enjoy the new characters. We had heard this before,
but I think, and this does attribute to the third act. I
really appreciate how they deal with Caesar, especially in the first act, but
then going forward the idea of what the legend is and what that means to
other people, because that's the best apes is. Like we talked about that
with the tim Byrne. One right not to break like bring down one to
raise another, but we talked about how that was just like an action movie,
and you know there's still even then. I think I gave it like
a positive you it's still guilty pleasure. But Apes is the best when like
it means something and use it. They literally just use Caesar as Jesus or
God whatever. So that's the thing of taking that image and doing amalgamation of
God and Jesus and Caesar and people twisting and turning it some people sticking.
That is really good to see. So I think that stuff's all a hit.
I like all the characters, as I said, I think they do
a good job, almost similar to Dawn, where all the characters have different
motivations and you can buy I think the majority of them right. Even there's
a character I really like it here that does something you're like, fuck,
that's brutal, but coming from their point of view, like the best example
I can give it. Not so was this movie when we did Dawn and
Gary almost gonna blow up all the fucking apes, like we said, all
he knows is they got the power on and now apes are attacking. From
his point of view, I gotta fucking kill these apes. And there's multiple
moments like this with the apes the human like that where it's like, ah,
like I don't like this, but you would get where you have to
because it is kind of like a War, right. I think that with
Proximus, it's funny and we'll get into the nonsense or get into spoilers.
I like him better than some of their characters, but I do think there
is like, uh, like they didn't hit the potential that was set up.
Especially from the trailers. I thought, oh, this is gonna be
like a like a bolt point Golden Geek nominee. As of right now,
I would have my top five, but I sadly could see him being pushed
out, and I didn't think that was gonna happen in this one. I
think there's some really crazy echoes to War, which I was kind of surprised
because War was just a previous film. It's not like Rise and Battle or
what was which was no conquest right when it's both the monkey's rising up and
taking over. There's similar, but there's like twenty years apart. This is
like six to seven years apart, and there's some things that are just literally
it's like the exact same story. And I'm very curious to see the people
that don't like War. It's not as long, but there's just beats with
the villain, with what the villain wants to do. With what is happening
in Apes. There's a whole section that's just war for the planet Apes like
reskinned here, and I was like watching this, like really we're doing this
and I like war, So yeah, I think it's the third act to
me that doesn't I want to say, falls apart, but gets a little
weaker. But I'll say how the movie ends is really strong and I think
it's a great setup for the future. And right away when I ended,
I'm like, I'm ready for the next one I want to see, and
not a way of like, oh, I'll just consume the content. I
like Apes. No, it legitimately got me. Okay, I'm really curious
and excited to see where all these characters and this world goes. And that's
a good thing. So I think they did a great job. And now
I can take like a little sigh relief because I never saw the Maze Runners,
but at least I've seen this, and for me, it was good
enough, and I still really like it's nowhere near like a failure or anything.
This gives me much more confidence if this guy does end up like the
plans for him direct Zelda. This gave me like, Okay, I can
see some good Zelda isms here where I'm like, okay, I can be
a little less worried. Where if the whole movie was like the third Actnama,
big Man, We're fucking screwed for Zelda, I saw was like,
okay, I can see the vision here. So that was like another back
of my mind thin But yeah, overall, I thought it was great for
the most part. But I think it's probably my top five for the year.
Obviously that's always fluctuating throughout the year. It's not. I don't think
it's in the top three, but I think I might be able to say
top five letterbox fucking gum man. Yeah, it's tough. I'll have to
think it's neck and neck with the top five right now. I got duned
and that's like monkey Man, Lisa franknstign that Civil War, Love Life,
Bleeding and Macolt Slot. There's a lot of fighting going on there. So
look at that. Clay gave it a four out of five. You know,
that's a very rare you know, I was expected that. Yeah,
April gave it a four point five to five. Some aer gave it a
four. I'm just on the letterbox now, So there you go. So
there's some more patrons to our patrons and listeners to the patren but yeah,
so far behind on my letter box. It's just it's atrocious. I think
I have like beekeeper on there. It's my only move for the year.
So someone just keeps shocking too, because it's like I can't just review a
movie like four months ago, because like, is that the fresh thoughts?
Like is that is that approach to make the letter box list? To rank
them, just not give stars or reviews like I don't have to Okay,
I don't know that was the rules. I do that right now and then
i'll review them after this review drops. I'm not Taylor Field just spoiling my
score and stuff. I don't do it anymore anymore. You've been good,
You've been good. But I'll list it. So if you're really invested,
you could go on my list. But okay, maybe i'll reference. And
it's tripped me out to I'm just waiting for some feet to fall behind Travis
right now with the painting that fell behind him, there's gonna be some yeah,
like the host, this is this is a good episode for the video
of yours. If you're if you're you're thinking about checking out the video episode,
but anything else, Travis on your thoughts or Okay, well we're gonna
take our first ad break and then jump into some spoilers, so we'll be
right back. And we are back. Travis is still dismantling his his poster
that haunted Michael Jackson was tearing down because we've said his name too many times,
like a beetlejuice effect. You, yeah, he's gone. That was
me watching the painting Jesus Christ Jackson. Oh yeah, the little shadow effect.
There you go. Audio of listeners is just hating this moment right now.
But I killed them again though, just like Evil Dad, Like I
saw his head off. Yeah, right, Where do you guys want to
start? So if you jumped to the ending, because I feel like that's
I do, I do want to start there. I'm kind of heated.
I'm kind of hated, and I've been to the beginning. So the beginning
we meet no one, No, Okay, go ahead, I don't want
to go of the ending. No, just like kind of piggybacking on what
I was mentioning earlier on how like the part that I'm the most conflicted on
is just kind of how quick it was to get through the whole fucking like
camps. I guess that Proximist is setting up right like he brings. He's
in Noah's words, he's stealing plans to just build his kingdom, which I
loved all of that setup, Like I loved all of the introduction to Proximus's
kingdom and just kind of like getting this this thing that he that he's after.
And I also just I didn't mention it my my nonspoilar section, but
I feel like I really did like Proximists for the most part, just kind
of like the cadence that he carried himself in. I was really expecting him
to be a more just tyrannical type character that's just like pure evil. You
just hate him from the get go. But I feel like he has enough
charisma to kind of like somewhat win people over. Like he has he exudes
fear. We see that with I think his name's Anaya, Noah's friend.
That's not I feel like that terminology is not right. He exudes fear.
I feel like that would make it seem like he's like scared exudes he exudes
intimidation, Yeah, really scared guy's gonna get his fucking Yeah, that fault
definitely Anaya, that's definitely Anyah, that's definitely no, go the fucking fault
get to her. Guys, Okay, But he also just has that presence
of command that I think they they were able to really do a good job
at showing, Like I got that from the trailer and when we actually were
in the movie, I think they did a good job at showing that as
well. But even just the way that he would like talk to the humans
and like not be super scary to them, like for the most part,
Like like I think just because going into it, I was expecting him to
be like a coba, right, like just pure hating of the humans and
just like apes is the way, like they are disgusting. I can't even
look at them. So that was kind of a pleasant surprise because you just
seemed a little bit more intelligent and like he seemed like someone that wanted knowledge
more so than than just pure power or pure just gemocide of the humans.
So that was a pleasant surprise. I but again, like just the issues
I had was more so it just seems so easy for our heroes to just
get into the vault, get what they wanted flood the base and then there's
the big flood that happens, and then we just take out Proximous with the
eagles, which I thought that was a really cool sequence. I did like
that it reminded me of some Wakanda moments of them doing like the duels up
on the cliff side there. But like, like I think also the fact
that we have not Nova may escape and go away. I was expecting like
there to be almost like a red herring threat with Proximus and then we have
the humans that come in and like that's the threat that Noah has to deal
with. But it just we just go back to the Eagle Klan and they're
just rebuilding, and I'm just like, really, like that's it. It
just seems so easy that weekend when we were fucking slays for a couple of
days. Yeah, man, shit was great. I mean, I know
Taylor loved it, but like, how do you feel on that trous Did
it seem quick for you? Am I kind of alone in that sense?
It just it just was that easy. Maybe it was also them just doing
their mission, like they're like they just did everything in the sight of like
Proximus's camp. I know it's nighttime, but it just seems so easy to
do it well that I was fine with because he was I think he wanted
that to happen though, right, so I think he was Proximus. Oh
yeah, so I think he would have gave no talls apes like hey,
make it look like, make it seem they're gonna think that they're sneaking and
being you know, clever, but they're not. We you know what they're
doing, So let them do what they're doing. Because the fact that he
was waiting at the door to me shows like, okay, this was a
plan. He did say, Oh, I'm using you because you're a clever
ape. But I think for me it's my issue. I think I agree
with you. Things go a little quick, and I was a little caught
off guard that yeah, just ended with them all back and just even like
the trees are built up very quickly. Again, I'm like, okay,
I guess, like I said, just a crazy weekend where we lost our
dad and a couple other ones. But for me, it was just the
weird thing that you can take both movies and we have our main eight that's
lost family, who's looking for revenge that gets put into a camp with a
king that's making the apes work towards a goal that's not theirs. Which movie
am I talking about? Or for the Planet of the Apes. It's both
of them. It had like that's what was odd to me. That the
whole thing of why did Woody Harrelson need the apes? Well, you need
them so they could build something. Why did proximals need the apes? Well,
he needed so they could take something down, Like, I know that's
not building, but it's like it's the same thing where they're in camps.
He is like a like he is like he's not as bad as Coba,
But to me, he was a combo of Coba and Woody Harrelson because he
had those traits Like Woody Harrelson when he's locking up, he's not as vicious,
and but then when he does get a chance to talk to Seesar about
the human he's like, we're gonna get on an a vault and we're gonna
fucking kill all the humans. So it was like Cooba where it's just like
he's being nice to them now, but the second it gets at all,
like that artillery, they're gonna target the humans. And take them all down.
So again, very much like Woody Harrelson, I enjoy watching Proximus More.
But that's the thing where it just it's and this is what I sent
a Tan in the car, something that I was disappointed about. I enjoy
Proximus More, but Woody Harrelson was more fleshed out, and we didn't like
he. We even said he could have been more fleshed out. I was
very surprised. They never talked about Noah's dad at all ever, not once,
you know, and I was find like it just didn't make sense to
me of like, at any point they're gonna be like, hey, we
want him to help, and no Ape is like, yeah, there might
be an issue though, because we killed that leaders his dad, and that
to me is just like for the first two acts, I thought they were
doing very well and that was just the second he buries him and he tells
his momy dad's dead. That dad never comes back up again, and his
mission is much like Caesar's. He's gonna get his people back and he's gonna
take down these people, right that like took him down. So I think
for me, I was just more disappointed when we got there and when we
saw the Apes building stuff, I was like, Oh, we're just doing
this again what I thought at first, because at first it seemed like the
Apes weren't being abused, and they're not being abused like with Woody Harrelson,
but they're definitely like against their will. There's some shady stuff going on.
I thought we were getting a Northman moment where it's gonna be revealed that the
mom was actually with Proximus and like, because it was weird that only really
the dad Ape died and it didn't seem like many of the other apes died,
right, And I thought there's gonna be some big reveal of fuck no
like they are to this tribe is together now and Noah's like broken. But
it was just the same plot for more of the Apes, of they kidnapped
these apes because they need the ape power, and I was just, Oh,
that's that's it. So that's where my third act was. I almost
disengaged from it. Where that's why the and I agree, I think everything
moves at like a warp speed, and that's why it's funny for war Spielle
don't like. I think that's why move words to be because Caesar's at that
camp for a long time. Were that camp for a very long time.
We're here. It is like the reduced version of that, because maybe there's
a script where like, oh, this is too similar. So that's where
I was a little, uh caught off guard. Yeah, Proximus, I
just think is like very good, but definitely needed more of him, more
with the motivations, more of everything. So but very entertaining characters. So
I have similar problems but different problems at the same time with it. No,
Yeah, I'm glad you made that observation because I feel like in the
moment it didn't it didn't really hit me the comparisons to to war, but
like now that you're mentioning them, it really does make sense water time.
But like for me, it was it was more so expecting a lot of
interesting things to be going on in the camp, like like you mentioned the
Northman reference, which I think that would have been spicy for for you know,
to have like the the tie of the mother and Proximus. I think
in hindsight, I'm glad it didn't go that route, just because it makes
it feel like if they go your version and there is some like romantic relationship
or something or like betrayal amongst the mother. I feel like there should have
been a closer tie amongst the kingdoms of like the Eagles and like like like
maybe they should have had interactions. It seems like, yeah, what the
movie was, Yeah, like a long like they are very separate, and
then of course when the masked apes come in, they're just like, who
is this that's fined is his camp essentially because they are just trying to absorb
kingdoms, and the comparisons to just like the Roman Kingdom and like how they're
able to just like basically win wars and then steal women and like just grow
their city that way. I did like the comparisons, especially that we have
another Caesar here approximates Caesar that's you know, just a lot more of a
obviously an emperor as opposed to what Caesar was, which is just like the
Elder the terminology that they mentioned there. So your observation definitely maybe brings it
down a little bit because it is so similar to War. I am not
a major fan of War, uh So I don't like either. I don't
want war to happen to anybody. I like the movie War for planings,
but like the song though songs pretty good. That's gonna come get me too.
Uh, but yeah, I don't know. I'll throw it to Taylor
because you you love the third act, the best third act in cinema.
So mm hmm. Well, I I feel like you guys are highlighting the
similarities between this and War, and personally, I feel like there are certain
things in all these eight films. Uh, not the like the five other
ones, but the wag Wahlberg one. I feel like there's some similarities in
there. Maybe it's just like isolated to just when there's like chase scenes and
stuff like that that I think there's similarities, but like the whole like Dawn,
Rise and War all very different, I think, like plot line,
but even so, like the setup of communication and all that kind of stuff,
you don't understand that it's a thing till the very end. But in
retrospect, after we got there, I just felt like, Okay, well,
this feels very much like Dawn and just what the humans are trying to
do, not necessarily the apes, but then yeah, you have I think
that was smart that they didn't revealed in the movie though, right, it
is smart and they just wait till the very last min to be like,
oh, they're trying to get communications. I think that was smart where this
is a whole act of war from the planet of Apes just reducts. Yeah,
I know I would. I would agree with that, and not that
there's anything wrong with that in my opinion, because I like war a lot.
I really really enjoyed it, and I think as far as Proximus Caesar
goes, I really like this guy as a villain. I think he was
really as you mentioned Kirkle, and he was charismatic to a slight degree,
and I like that how he was friendly, he was hosting, but he
was also as he says, like he doesn't care how many apes he expends
to get into this vault. He just wants to get in there. And
he's I liked every time he was talking and when Nova or May I guess
pulled out the gun and he's smiling, but he's like moving him in behind
all the apes and he's like, are there more of those in there in
my vault? Like that he's moving in between them. He's like this piece
of ship guy. He's so shady, but I really really like so I'm
pretty impressed by that. Uh the voice you had yeah, still our stole
our Adrenda crowns Bastard's the the Eagle scene taking him down was wonderful. I
thought that was that was really really cool. I really like that. But
yeah, he's just I was not expecting him to have William uh Macy in
there too of just yeah, being one like his his subservient, subservient or
whatnot, and just a little bit of that insight to where oh he likes
to he likes jokes, and he likes stories with Julius Caesar and Roman stuff.
I'm like, that's I find that really fascinating. And I think that
that totally clicks because when you're when you're like Proximus Caesar and you're trying to
uh you want to take over and you want to be instilling this baseline kind
of control and dominance. Look at how the Romans did it, and I
mean, fuck, that's pretty basic and yeah handehobs, Yeah this in this
book in h Macy's like, no, not that book. See that's another
thing that I liked that character. One more from him I didn't understand.
I don't think Macy's character. Yeah, I don't think you served much as
a purpose. I think you could have just had a nice ape no I
may all that stuff and we'd get the same. I don't think he was
meant to serve any larger purpose other than really reaffirm like he was there,
why kids. He wasn't there to serve any other purpose except to reaffirm the
position of Noah and his friends to see may actually kill someone, because at
this point they haven't killed anyone. And I mean they never seen humans kill,
or they haven't even seen humans talk. This is all very new to
them. So for an ape to kill an ape, that's that's a big
no. No, really, you don't do that. And so here this
human just kill I don't think it is. I think it no. It
varies for clans. I think in this kingdom it doesn't matter. But I
think for their clan it's a big no no. I don't think they're preaching
like Caesar's Caesar's way or anything like that. But I think for them at
least they're preaching like, well, we don't kill each other, like we're
a clan, we're all one family, like we're together. And so in
this moment here for for them to see a human and intelligent human kill one
of their own kind who is also talking human like, it's just it blows
their mind probably like out of the water, think like, I can't believe
she did this and we're supposed to trust her when she immediately just killed him
with his back to her, like this is this he serves as that that
starting seed where they're they're really really kind of turn not turning on her,
but casting more doubt. Idn't say it's the starting scene because Proximus kind of
instigates that at the at the beginning when they're at the dinner table. Yeah,
but he's also a reliable narrator, right, like of course he's going
to say the true and so he does like she does. Yeah, Noah
does get like concerned, and so maybe it's in the back of his mind.
But when she kills Macy's character, that really cements it. And then
he sees the book of them in cages inside the bunker. So there's just
all these things lighting up, and I'm kind of like drifting a bit more
here forwards. But when it gets to the point where she is trying to
I was kind of surprised that she showed up, but I like that she
showed up to just kind of like maybe reconcile or just say like sorry,
whatever her true intentions were when she had that gun behind her back. I
really like that scene that she just couldn't couldn't trust. So I thought that
was really really bold and really interesting, and I feel like it sets up
like just that future they probably will be enemies and him just pondering in a
pondering like I don't know if we're going to be allies, if there's any
way we can be allies, and I think sorry, like slightly like it
slightly reminded me of the sequence between Caesar and Uhles characters name what was whatever
his name was. That doesn't sound right at all, fucking I don't know,
not because of like they were super close and like this is goodbye forever,
but it was also just like that relationship is never gonna be like what
it was, or like it's pretty much just goodbye, like like permanently,
and like I don't think Caesar ever saw Aaron Air quote again, but will
Will Rodman, Will Will Rodman, of course doctor Rodman didn't age well,
doctor, But like I think it's possible that Noah and her will see each
other again, but definitely not on the same alliance scale. I think we're
prepping for War of the Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, of the
Humans, of the Rise of the Human of the Planet of the Apes.
Done Donald, So I forgot don in there. I'm my grandfather mother.
My ass fucking hurts. It's funny. I took it the other way.
I took it more as like, it's Caesar and Malcolm where at the end
they have their because character Malcolm, he said Woody without Woody Harrelson, Like,
who the fuck are you talking about? Jason Clark, Jason Clark from
down he's the human there. Oh yeah, yeah. So because at that
movie they say goodbye to each other and they do the same thing of like,
I really wanted it to work him in the Apes, and she's like,
I I thought we had a chance to Where this is them both saying
they want to work, but with much more like trepidation. Right, because
that Malcolm and Caesar is we had a chance for to work. It's not
gonna work. It's gonna spread that these apes kill these humans. This is
like a second chance because May went out there clearly scared and yeah, I
met some bad apes, but also met a full tribe and one in two
apes in particular that were really kind and helped her. Right, so her
personality is no longer gonna be skewed that way if all apes are bad.
Now she's definitely on That's what I love. She's a soldier and she's on
a mission. Like she's not a soldier, but she is in this sense
right, Like she has a job. She has to get there and do
something. And same thing with Noah. He thinks very differently of humans.
He sees they can be compassionate. Now, she did fucking kill a bunch
of the apes, like she drowned a bunch. But we'll get that later.
I completely agreed that decision, and I did not expect I guess before
we go off to a different route. I love the ending. I think
it sets up a perfect scenario where here's where I will go against it.
I hope it's not like Malcolm where oh and in between movies he died.
I think this character may is essential to the sequel. I think with the
Tide of Noah and the tide of humans, she has to be because if
Malcolm and Caesar are the end of humans and apes can't get along. This
to me is like the potential beginning of oops. Oops, that's what they're
called together and apes together we are now oops No. But like this to
me is the potential deal breaker of how can we work with apes? Well,
May has a history, has said these things, knows the tribe.
That's how they can try to break bed once together. Because let's say we
don't know for sure, but let's say this is still our connuity right where
things don't change eventually In Battle for the Apes, the humans did find a
way and apes find a way, right, And I feel like that should
be the ending of this franchise, even if it is a new timeline.
They should find a way. So I love like that was a perfect trajectory.
But at the same time, she was smart enough to know if I
show my face, because I did, I'd probably kill some apes to save
myself. I got this gun ready, so if no one makes a move,
I'm gonna fucking kill them. And that's why I can't believe I'm saying
this that when we do our rankings, I do not think like this May
character is gonna be pretty high on my rankings. I loved this character because
she they made her very gray area, but only from our point of view,
it's literally like think about when they find those books in the vault and
they're like having all this experience. Compare it to the first pun Apes.
The same thing happens, right, they find the doll, they find glasses,
they find oh, faked teeth and everything like that. Because Charlton Heston
is a human and he's our protagonist, we're with them, We're like,
yeah, fuck you Apes, Like I'm not fuck you so, but I'm
just saying like you're supposed to be. Like Hessen is like, yeah,
we ruled the earth and you guys fucking ruined it. Right. So now
when we flip it and it's the ape seeing that she comes off as like
an antagonist of like they they're reading these books. She approaches them from the
dark like hey, we gotta get at her, and it's very like like
fuck is she gonna kill? But like what she gonna do? Like you
can't trust her. But again, if you were to make this movie from
her point of view, it's the same thing as Taylor Heston, right,
It's a he's just trying to survive and get through and same thing. He'll
kill apes, he'll threaten apes, he fucking threads like Zerra, who's like
the nicest ape in the world, like he's a gun to he at one
point like I'm gonna fucking blow her head off, Like that's the thing where
for her to shoot out this damn she doesn't want to, but like is
she's supposed to believe Proximus is not gonna even hunt down, like get her
hunt down and kill her. And same thing he has said even at dinner.
Once I can I get that vault, I'm gonna kill these fucking humans.
And she Now at the end of that movie, with it revealing there's
tons of humans underground. More so when they call, which we'll get into
when they start talking about underground, I was like, oh, fuck,
here we go. But like so yeah, I was worrying when like,
oh, there's a section of humans still underneath, and I'm like, oh
no, they're gonna have superpowers. I didn't think they're going that roup.
But I just had flashbacks to beneath it. But that's what I love with
this character. That every it's much like Charleston Heston and Taylor. Everything they
did made sense for that character. It was oppose our character. She did
kill probably dozens of Apes by sinking that plot. But it's like, oh
yeah, it's in this say stage, it's human versus ape and she's on
team human. She has to defend him, So yeah, she has to
fucking sink this vault. And I loved it, and I did not think
I'd be walking away. And the last way I make is the only thing
I've seen her in is in Netflix Witcher. This is a performance that you're
gonna see her in a bunch of stuff. I feel like people are gonna
get me the fucking girl from Apes. I thought she fucking delivered a home
run here in which or she's good here, she was great. You saw
her in one more thing that you and I reviewed together. Actually this is
Gunpowder Milkshake. Oh god, was the little girl in there? It was
young sam in it's the main character. Okay, okay, yeah, I
completely forgot about it obviously movie there for a second, she was a young
well even like first season of Wicher, if you like look at just uh
yeah, like shots from then, it's like, man, she look like
a baby. It's crazy how quickly you know young actresses and actors just age,
you know, like the Strangers or sorry, the Stranger things affect as
well with those kids. Yeah, and that's the thing where it's like,
I like, gosh, what's his name we were talking about in the cart
here, what's the kid that plays Mike and Stranger Things? He's a Ghostbusters?
Like, oh god, no one remembers this guy's name. Fuck.
Not a great sign, but like, uh, oh no, yes,
I thought I had it. It's some fin wolf the right. I don't
know how you forget name my fat that. And there's other ones like that
right where I've seen them as a kid and they're Dalton's like, oh yeah,
you're still have a good actor, Like he's still good in Ghostbusters like
that, Like that's fine, But this is like a fuck like what Like
to me, it's like a huge leap from what she doesn't witch her to
she's gonna be No, don't think about it. But I had to say
it because I knew that you had her on the list. I knew that
I had on the list. I want to put it out there, so
it's a wild card. Kirk is not going to get her. But no,
she just impressed me a lot. When we've talked about this before,
sometimes the human characters can bring down a movie and for me did not do
that. So BRAWLVO to her so and I hope to They said, I
think you'll see her in a bunch of stuff now after this. So yeah,
no, absolutely, there's a man. You unloaded a lot there.
I meant to jump in a couple of times. You said Taylor Heston.
I thought that was kind of funny. Yeah, I say Taylor. I
just feel like Taylor looks up, It's like what am I doing? Am
I asleep? And then I'm just talking about it like made me think like
maybe like did they actually have Heston as Taylor's last name, Like Charlton Heston
is just like, yeah, you're gonna use my last name and my name,
my full name is gonna be on the title card. Wake up.
He's son of a bitch. No, but you said a lot of stuff
that I completely agree with there, just more so like the like the flooding
of the base has to happen, not just for the survival of the humans,
but also just like the Eagle Clan, you know, like or sorry,
not just the Eagle Klan, but other factions of apes out there,
like Proximist is gonna take on He's gonna take over the whole fucking globe.
If he has access to just what's in this in this bunker, with the
potential of what it is now, I think it would have probably taken them
a lot of time to really figure out how it all it works. Probably
just to turn on the power would have taken some time. But just apes
with guns, like we've seen it in all the old Apes movies, that's
definitely what would have been happening. And they had these shock sticks that were
pretty effective for the most part. I mean clearly like he was building up
a kingdom, which is the weaponry that they had. But if they just
got these fucking you know, the C fifty eight or whatever the hell they're
they're rock and C fifty two whatever your gun was for war zone, Travis,
I'm trying to remember, But yeah, uh, that would have been
dangerous for not just the humans, but but everyone out there that's not a
part of the Kingdom of Proximus. So I I think I think that this
uh looking faster, I think I can't focus. I can't focus. I
think that that was a really good just like it must be done from our
human character there and our human character. I think they did a really good
job at Now I'm even more nervous Travis is fucking with the camera. Pay
attention, look at the reflections Jurassic poster. It looks like the deer viawddress.
But yeah, no, they did such a great job at really making
it seem like May was the sketchy figure and like not just because we're humans
watching this movie, we should be rooting for her from the get go.
And I think that's what they succeeded so well in And like the first act
is just like establishing our heroes for the film, right, like Noah and
his clan, Like they do such a good job at showing just like the
the bond that the factions share him and his friends, and just it makes
us want to root for him. Like when when his egg gets crushed early
on, I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? It felt like a
like a like a miscarriage, right, like like it had that effect and
that far how he's carrying this little egg and she just like crushes him in
the belly. It just like everywhere that's just like some super minor I guess
not as extreme, but like the worst thing that's gonna happen is like,
he's not gonna get a badge, like you're a sheriff now. A miscarriage
is like, it's not like his child, he's losing. And I felt
like it though, and I think that's what they were trying to go for,
at least that's how I took it. Might be a bit of a
hyperbole, but yes, so but no, they did such a great job
at setting that up, and I was really curious how the whole I guess
may character was gonna be like in the trailers. I think it was just
like, oh, here we go, there's gonna be another nova, and
how is this gonna work out? I really wasn't expecting her to be able
to speak or anything like that. So that was really that was a nice
moment. I think, Oh, I guess you weren't on the cat you
Yeah, you missed that cast when we did a trailer breakdown, right,
that was a super Bowl one that we I thought I was on. Yeah,
yeah, because Taylor had a good theory and he had me going the
whole time thinking that was the what was happening. But uh, yeah,
he had the theory that it was an astronaut, that they were doing a
remake of the original plan of the apes, and not like a full remake,
but the idea of because if it's a new timeline and in the sense
of, you know, when Charlton Heston and his crew go down there's that
girl that's glass broken, and it's her in this timeline would be the reverse
where maybe like, okay, yeah. So that's why I always thought she
was gonna talk, because Saylor did bring up some good points as we were
all were along. Two is because when he looked at her clothes they were
much more modern then because in the trailer they showed up this cave in people
with hers modern. So I was on that bandwagon. I thought Taya was
completely right that she is an astronaut that's come back and landed and now we're
retelling this. But it wasn't that, and it's a whole it's it's a
play on something old where it is okay, there's people down below, which
did happen to plant apes, but this is like the realistic take on we
talked about how like there's good ideas to that, but the idea of they
went down below and became like fucking mutin with megamind heads and superpowers, it's
not the route they should have win. To me, this is taking Hey,
what's something from that original franchise that we could play off of, much
like Rise was the Conquest, you know, like, but how can we
do it like a little bit better? And to me, this is absolutely
it, Like I could believe that, especially nowadies, we always hear about
people making like doomsday and fall bunkers, all this stuff, I could believe.
Now, did it happen a little fast? And how do they how
does it all work for this is like four hundred years later? I don't
know, but I'm completely fine to suspendos belief and wait till seql. But
I think that's something that the franchise. If they've touched upon it, they
haven't touched upon it in a good way. It's much like Venom right where
it's like, yeah, sure we have a venom, we have two venoms,
but it's like I don't feel satisfied in what I got in vent them.
So yeah, if we ever get a vet on the MCU, I'm
sure something. Oh, just don them again. But if it's done,
well, go, oh this is great. So in Beneath and for Battle,
because remember they had people hiding out with their their buses and stuff.
We got that thing, but to me, and now those versions were good
or fleshed out, this is something potential. These people been there for years.
They're like dosing the suits, they're cleaning them, like they're have this
whole tradition, not traditional, this whole protocol. They sent her out.
So like, for me, this is due territory for the Apes franchise of
like using something that is old but giving it a fresh coat of paint.
And that's what I'm very excited to see. And I think that, of
course there's similar elements and themes that could play, but I that's what I
like about now that she's not the actional and I think that still gives us
a chance for some movie ending or the fucking spaceship coming down. I don't
think we need that. As I've said before, I think that'd be a
great way to end it. And then you never answer, because I think
if you fully remake plan the Apes, you get into really tricky territory.
So I think it's just good to leave it where it is and just keep
doing your own thing. I was gonna mention about the spacecraft, but Taylor
doesn't really talk to a little bit. I totally thought this was a spaceship
scenario here, and she was an astronaut. So I love the idea that
we're not there yet and they're saving it for later on. And they really
capped this out of course by focusing on like satellites and communication, but to
me, it just felt like man space and spaceships, Like yeah, especially
because like there was the when they found the fucking scope at the beginning,
and there's like there's so much space stuff in here. I'm like, oh,
she's gotta be But it was kind of a good freak out you or
fake out. It was a good fake out. So I think that the
whole yeah, them kind of showing her being from a new colony underground.
I really like that, and seeing how many of them are still alive and
they're playing an extra safe like that Simu and Flu is nowhere like anywhere,
touching that they're all super isolated safe in there, and to think that this
is generations later. So these people that have survived and they're in here,
who knows at what point they went down into this bunker. They probably went
pretty earlier on, and they all just they they're very very well educated.
Well, yeah, that, but they're very well educated, and they're probably
really filled with hate towards the the apes, especially because you see that present
in in May when she's talking about how these things that are here not meant
to be for you, they're our things. Yeah, and again it's just
it shows it just shows humankind and that greediness and that you're going to betray
your own race you know here and yeah, character said that in this I
know, yeah, I meant was my nickname, but I forgot, but
it was, Yeah, someone dropped the betray your own race thing. So
I just think that you mentioned a few things or Travis that are pretty spot
on, Like if you're seeing this from May's point of view, which you
get that that heston perspective where you're on their side from you see it from
what they're going through, but then in this case more so you do see
it from Noah and Noah's friend's side, when it's like, man, we
were just animals now. I'm definitely I'm of two parts on this because I
definitely can see where her justification is on destroying the dam and flooding it.
It makes total sense excuse for the hatred that is manifested in her, and
you don't want these apes, especially Proximus Caesar to get tanks, hummers and
weapons like that thing was loaded. It was really cool to see that vault
decked out with all this stuff. It is really neat. So first thought,
I'm like, that's a war zone location, you know, like that's
where you're dropping cards. Yeah, get it. Absolutely so I understand her
justification for destroying the dam and flooding it. I just it sucks because I'm
totally on the ape side. I I think for the most part, Yeah,
kill all the humans he wants to. Taylor would Taylor would be here
with Harrelson and it's like the whole way he acted. Oh William people up
in real life. Yeah, you'll you want to be him from War,
the guy shooting himself. That's what we're thinking that any new listeners like man,
they think he's like Woody Harrelson from War. Oh my god, No,
William H. Macy, That's completely what Taylor would end up like.
I I wouldn't like, I would love to live with the apes, but
definitely not with Proximous Caesars. Yeah, you would be especially just like the
Bigfoot comparisons, you'd be asking about some distant relatives of his potential. Well,
the humans at first felt like Bigfoot and cryptis I was, I was
digging out looking at footprints and stuff. But but the the idea here that
like I I definitely agree with Noah that these they have a right to this
planet. I think that humanity fucked up. Humanity had their time and whether
you want to call it natural selection, mother nature, however you want to
put it, they they have been backed into a corner where it's just their
their time is over and this is now the time of the Apes. And
that's one of the best things too, that they that's in the next movie's
gonna be called the Time of the Planet of the Apes. I think it's
really awesome too from the human point here. Now it shows how dedicated and
just unyielding humanity is, and I think that's a very accurate thing, especially
in human history when you look at it, because humans, I feel like,
should have died out thousands of years ago with how many things could actually
have killed us and eliminated us. But humans persevere, we adapt, We're
almost adaptable species on the planet, and we don't quit. We just keep
going and going and unyielding, and it's incredible. And so when you absolutely
so when you see humans in this context, it's been multiple generations and they're
just still pressing on continuing activating satellites like they're just they're not stopping, even
though it's like, how can you not accept defeat in this most defeated of
times, They just don't. And so I think this is really going to
set up a very dangerous sequel where these humans are going to be very,
very aggressive, much more aggressive than what we've seen before. And these humans
aren't necessarily dealing with Woody Howlson's character. He was dealing with another military group
that was against his beliefs, and so they were confusing against each other.
So now you have humans here that are all going to be able to coordinate
tactically with each other, and who knows what the fallout is is going to
be is going to be from this result of them being able to communicate with
each other. I'm very interested to see that. Are they going to go
up to the surface. I don't know, but I think that we're really
going to get something really compelling in a sequel where what I thought the last
light of humanity was snuffed out and wore the plant of the apes. We
still human, They're just fucking dummies now, right. We got the whole
chase scene like, and that's where I thought it was astronaut because like,
oh, they're kind of remaking that scene right there again, right, Like
if you look at that scene, it's different because she finds the apes,
but it's her with a bunch of humans or getting the nets. She's out
smarting them, So it was kind of remaking. You get you hear minor
notes of the horn and like, you get it a little bit. So
I liked that. But that's what I'm curious about where they do that.
But then she's I feel like, I don't know what the timeline was,
but she was exposed for at least a couple of days right to this,
So that's where it's like she's exposed to the apes, she exposes other humans.
Is this the thing? Now? Where is there anything down below that
they have? Is like a deterrent to get that happen. They're still spraying
to close down, So clearly not, why would she not come back and
then be affected? Right? If it's kind of like we've been in this
perfect capsule and then you go out there, I feel like even less so,
like you'd have none of these antibodies to be out like if you're just
if she's what twenty even she's been twenty years old locked in this just like
fallout shelter, Like, yeah, you'd have no your immune system would be
Yeah, so I feel like they'd have something down there right to maybe counteract
some of the stuff. So well, you'll have to remind me here,
aren't weren't they weren't there like a selection of humans that were just they just
were immune for whatever reason. It's tough because we thought that. But then
at the end of war all the like we meet that big army, right
but in Woody Harrelson's camp, like he got sick, Like it felt like
to me, it felt like in anyway, like no matter what event,
you're gonna get sick. Even if you're fine right now, eventually it's going
to turn on you. It's gonna be the start of the next film.
It's like somehow may just died. Yeah, she died off screen exactly,
Malcolm. Somebody will mention it and deleted scene. Here's a here's an interesting
analogy here that someone wrote so the semi flu has probably wiped itself out since
it's been three hundred years. So since it's not a real virus, humans
don't know how it works. So with COVID, for example, the virus
can have a lasting impact on a person and even after they are no longer
infectious. With the Simian flu, it would have altered all the apes and
humans that were initially infected, and then those traits were passed on the subsequent
generations without needing to be directly infected, so the virus itself would be gone
and no one else would catch it, so it would spread throughout. They
they they all waited it basically, and so it's just genetically inherently passed on
hereditarily passed for Yeah, and apes are fine because it's fine with their antibodies.
And as long as you don't, like fuck one of those caveman people,
you're gonna be okay. Yeah, well you might actually, but I
mean if you sleep with one of the cavemen people, I mean you might
actually turn it around. They're just getting smart. Yeah, they might have
a smart kid. No, but I mean when they when those people be
hearing some sort of version of that flu, like it's in their body,
right, they would be affected. They would be affected by it. But
no, it's it's not like a sexually transmitted disease in the com I just
been in blood. I don't mean specifically sex. I just mean like because
you can still get aids about having sex, like if blood and blood connects.
Like because you're saying like the flu died out, but it's like that
there's still things that affect those humans or is it just like it's just because
I guess it's like cave Man, right, they probably are a getting on
procreating. Is it just that that flu settles in. But then like let's
say the two people that like lose their voice and they're starting to be dumb,
I guess they have. I would say it it's a mutation because it's
at this point it was an infection and infected people, and then after that
it was just a mutation, So it's not infecting people a non spreadable mutation.
Then it's yeah, it's just it's just turn into a mutation. I
mean, with no new host to infect, it's gonna dye itself out and
then the people that are still alive are just gonna be like procreating and whatnot,
and that's just gonna be an inherent hereditary mutation that just exists, but
not an infectious one. Right, So then do you how do you think
they're gonna determine the humans can go and fight, because I don't think they're
gonna have all these actors and fucking like plastic masks. No, And that's
that's where they could totally change the law or in the story and they could
be like, well, the Simey and Flues evolved again, Like I mean,
they could write whatever they want, so well, I don't know.
I hope they wouldn't write it that way. They should make it gone so
the humans can go out there without them. I I totally agree. I
think so absolutely all the precautions right of this film they don't know. And
I think that's that's the kicker. I think this could be the first I
guess this could be the first time there they've come out for a long time.
And even the way that May was talking to Macy's character, I really
like that because she's calling out like I'm not the one helping the apes and
he didn't know where she was from, but it seemed almost like she was
aware of what place he came from, and she had this pre existing vibe
that she knew he was there, knew he was helping or something like that.
Just this disappointment, and I'm curious to know where that stems from.
How did she How did she know that the apes had a talking human?
Because I feel like talking humans are not I mean, they're not everywhere.
So I feel like, if you're gonna know if one's around, well,
well, yeah, I guess because I was gonna say, how did that
happen? But I guess what you did? Insinuate that he had left that
bunker and he was out there and stuff, because if he didn't get affected,
that wouldn't make much sense because he couldn't have just lived out like no
one in our theory, he couldn't have lived out there without being the bunker
at all. Yeah, maybe that's a mispotential in that character, right,
that we would have gotten a little bit of something out of that, like,
yeah, she did know him because of that found out that someone had
left. Or maybe it's just insinuated that there is other smart factions of humans
or out there that aren't just the one camp, right, because we have
the underground bunker like the basically the Colm's array that everybody's working at that may
goes to at the end. But she also says that Proximus like rated her
camp, so that would have been not that location clearly because they're still there,
so there's probably more of them out there. But like, it also
just seems like a one in a million thing that they have humans that talk.
So it's just something that was kind of glossed over in the movie with
the William H. Macy character that we don't really have enough time to really
fill him in there. But I mean, he gets merked so quickly that
it doesn't really at least for me, Like, I don't know, it
doesn't really It's not something I was thinking about well, like while watching it,
it's just like, Okay, they have a human that talks. It
feels like in a video game when you talk to somebody that's offering a side
quest and you accept it and then you play forty to fifty hours of that
video game, like, oh, right, there's that guy that need me
find a shoe, but I never really did that, and you come back
and he's like dead. You're like, oh, I guess that's what happened
to him. You know, it just feels like kind of a and I
think I think it does more for May's character than it does for the movie
or the ape. So I don't think it's pointless, but I think there's
more that could have been Niceespecially you got a good actor like William H.
Macy, so it's not like, oh, we got somebody and yet,
yeah, let's take our second ad break and we'll keep talking about the kingdoms.
We'll be right back, and we're back. I wanted to because I
mentioned the whole space thing well when Travis was talking about before I threw Taylor
because any Sky wanted to let him speak. But you're saying, I don't
want to put words in your mouth. Maybe I'll ask you. Were you
saying that you're like excited when they're looking at the stars at the potential of
a spacecraft coming, or like what that means or no. I just thought
there was them like setting us up like her for a spacecraft though, like
yes and no, because remember she when he finds that maze with him and
they both look right, So I thought it was almost just her still like
trying to figure out, like fuck, like if I at that moment thing,
She's like, heston right, she's landed here and she's looking at the
stars like, yeah, oh I'm so fucked, like I can't get back.
And that's what I thought, I said to Taylor car after the movie,
the whole red chip thing up until she got to that base and knocked
that door, I thought, Oh, this could just be like it never
makes sense. But Mark Wahlberg, what did you want to do? He
wants to get in the ship and gets back. What was hesse want to
do? He wants to get the ship gets back. What do Cornelis and
z or zero do? They get in the ship and they go to Earth?
Like these aracters are always obsessed with, well, let's get in the
spaceship and get back home. So I thought that red thing when she's riding
the horse the end, and especially because the area was starting to look more
desert, like, I thought it was gonna look like the first Ape Spooen
when they crashed in the water. I thought it was gonna go over the
hill and you'd see a ship and you go, oh shit. And that's
where I thought you could have her fly away and you never have to answer
what this character's like. She could go and that's the answer right up,
Well she left and went back in time or whatever. Maybe she's seen Abraham
Lincoln, you know, and she ends up with Mark Wahlberg's and go,
fuck, happen to you too? So I just thought it was like setting
us up, like, oh, so when it's revealed she's a space woman
like her looking at the stars, there's some meaning there. But no,
it was just a bonding moment between the two. So that's all I thought.
But it's completely gone now. I think it's just a bonding moment in
him to realize that she's like cognizance, she's not an idiot, she can
reckon. She recognizes what's happening. So so then fast forward to the end,
like the significance of them looking out in space right like uh, Noah
and Souna I think was her name, like and them just communicating. It's
not so much of the spacecraft aspect. It's more so just it's not real
realizing the big the fastness get alone, Like for the humans, I get
it because they're communicating with each other. That's a big moment. They have
the satellites, they are communicating, but we have Noah and Suna right,
like at the observation tower, he's just trying to bang her. So he
just wants to Okay, look it just look at these cool STI it seems
like emphasis on the stars, and that's where I'm just like, what are
they trying to do here? Though, Like if someone is coming from space,
why does that matter to this story at all? If Charlton Heston is
out there and he's coming back, what does that do for this story?
Absolutely nothing, because nobody has any tie to Charlton Heston anymore because it's like
four hundred years later. Yeah, but if you were to fall that same
connuity, I think it's more so them looking out in the story. If
I'm trying to get on that level, it's almost like what has to represents
It's now Noah really realizing not that they're not alone, because they know they're
not alone, but just like the man, did we have it wrong?
Like there was things greater out there? So it's like looking at the stars
and you go, hey, that's out there, and you know they're out
there, but you don't really understand them. I feel like that's how he
feels about the humans now where he's grown up, his whole life with this
idea of what humans aka echoes are right now, right, and now his
mind has been expanded when he thought he meets May, now they know about
there's other humans out there. So I think it's I don't think Hessen will.
I don't know, because Haya said something about being said, I don't
think they actually will ever do the Hessen thing because I think that's risky.
But even if they did, technically, if we got that, that would
be like the apes win and they take over, right, So that would
be the significance of you do that again. But they're doing the storyline here,
they're doing the Hessen storyline with her of you apes, S don't understand
you were in cages and we ruled you. So that's why I don't think
they'd ever do it. It would just be happening to another set of characters.
So if Heston comes back, it's literally just the Mark Wahlberg ending essentially,
right. I guess by that point, Mark Wahlberg's apes were more advanced,
like they were kind of where we're at right now. They ran Lincoln
ones, yeah, the Abrahamley yeah apes. Yeah. Well, and I
don't think it would be Heston coming back. I think in my mind,
if if your lineup, it's just that let's say technically that the humans come
up and the apes are there, the Apes win the war and they go
more like Proximus is around, and they just become like savage apes and they
kill all humans. That's like I think Heston, if he were to come,
it's still not for like another four hundred years, but hopefully this is
like a sign where it's like battle where it's like, oh, they find
a way to coexist. I feel like that should be the ending of this
trilogy. I feel like you got the next one that's really war torn,
and the sixth movie that should be the apes and humans coming together. And
then I think plant Apes can like rest for like twenty to fifteen years,
because then it's like, Okay, what more can you do? You know,
because technically they already did the human and apes coexist, but like,
let's be honest, Baalt for the Apes wasn't a great movie, right,
so it's kind of like, well, we could do that better. So
I feel like that has to be the endpoint. And then once you do
that, I don't really know where you go. I think they got two
more out of this and then I don't I don't know what else you could
do the apes other than remaking the original. I think that is a it's
a tight rope. It's it's funny too because planeteers maybe do plan the deers
do a different animals Planet of the Deers with flash there, guys, Rise
of the Planet of the Deers with the flashlights. Yeah, exactly the title
early on before we get revealed of kind of more so, what's going on
with the humans when we have nova you know, may that can speak.
I like it almost seemed like we were going around of like Rise of the
Humans of the Planet of the Apes, right, where like they're kind of
reversing like the evolution where they're like getting smarter again. It's it's just kind
of how it seemed it was going because she is she seems pretty savage,
right, like she's she's looking she's scavenging for food and like she's all dirty,
she's looking for just warmth or whatever. She's not really talking, so
it just seems like she is an echo, right obviously you later like and
the moment in the field too that was shown in the trailer. I thought
that was fantastic when she speaks for the first time, calls out to Noah.
I thought that was really really done or really well done. Seen good
flashback to kind of sees her right where it's you know, not him say
no, But it is funny because she's saying no. I like she said
no at first, dude, no, no, no. But it is
kind of a HARKing back to that right where, and even hess and him
speaking like I like that. Anytime someone speaks, it's like when it's a
character that we don't know, it's like it's it's used to be a big
moment. You know, it's a sign of intelligence, right and yeah,
like for these characters supposed to be simple things, but it's never not just
like oh, like here's a town. She's saying thank you, and then
it's like, oh, that's it. Like it's this big moment where you
can tell she doesn't want to talk because she doesn't want to play that card.
But you kind of have to because although not all those right there about
to just destroy it. And we saw a lot of the like we saw
a lot of those fist forearm attacks from the apes and chimpanzees in this movie
and gorillas, So yeah, it's a vicious move rip too. Uh know,
his dad, That's what took him out. So this is really what
took him out though, right like he got beaten on. Well we never
saw actually, right like, because we just saw him Okay, I no,
his rope and went down. But the last thing we saw of him,
he was getting the fucking elbow strikes and he ain't surviving. He probably
just left him there to bleed out, you know. I assume he just
tossed him off the tower because he was on the ground, right or I
guess the tower would have burnt down anyways, So he's just all like just
he's just pounded him into dust. Yeah, I mean, speaking of the
dad too, I thought that was a really intense moment of the showdown between
not Aldo and the father and the Son and the Holy Ghost and that whole
trinity. But No, I thought it was really touchy moments of him like
burying his dad and just that whole defeated this that he kind of carries with
him the whole film and just feeling like he's not worthy to like you know,
like basically avenge his father and the whole thing with the bird. I
I just thought all that was like ten out of ten. I absolutely love
that whole sequence. And yeah, just the whole evolution of Noah in this
film. I thought that was fantastic. So yeah, evolution. So yeah,
I said it before, I said it jury and I'm gonna say it
again. I think Noah is just such a great character and they did really
really good job. It's difficult, right to have Caesar for the first many
films and then coming into this with a brand new one, but I think
they really pulled off with Noah and great performance so around smoke cap but he
still did fantastic. So yeah, I really love Noah. I love the
journey and the development of this character had and really just kind of growing and
becoming becoming a leader and learning the reality and the truths behind their history and
his relationship with Raka. The Rangu tang Rako was my favorite. I love
the orangutangs in these movies so much. Maurice and Raka was fanziastic. Zias
is a character, that's for sure. There's something very interesting with with Noah,
and I'm I'm I've been kind of like convinced about this. I'm gonna
share something with you because some people pointed out it's just him the flashlight.
So here's here's Noah. Sorry, this is that's Caesar, that Caesar.
So yeah, you see Caesar with this mark right here. Yep, Okay,
let me find a picture of Noah, because Noah has the same mark
going on on his chest. And people are show me that bigger one.
No, show me one of the bird tailor not this close up one because
shadow people are saying that this is a well, there's a there's a part
on his chest that's got less a lesser amount of hair. Here's another one
here. This this birthmark you can see that lots too high for a nipple.
But Caesar's got the same mark and the same shot by what's his face
and that spot or is it not that small that he got shot? He's
got some great here's another shot of Caesar there with that mark there. So
this is a little less to fine, but yeah, he could be a
he'd send it, you know. The first act this movie is the same
again, back to war. He has the exact same storyline Caesar does with
avenging a dead one, and he's very MOPy about it. But all of
them he looks the closest to Caesar two, which I don't think is.
I mean, all the other like Apes and his colony are all very different
looking from Caesar, and I just feel like they're setting it up that maybe
he is a descendant and he'll learn that later on. And if you're wondering,
why didn't they know that who Caesar was? I some people propose the
three that maybe maybe that his clan was here, his ancestors were exiled because
shit started to go really really sour. It's like, okay, we got
to get out of here because there's proximous Caesar's rising up. Who knows,
there's could be some group that's taking over and it's getting bad, so they
just just to bounce. I don't have a problem with that, like to
me, like it being four hundred years if it was maybe one hundred,
so yeah, that's a little bit four hundred years, Like lots can fucking
chick like I that's never a problem to me, Like, oh, why
don't they know who Caesar is? It's like fuck, like there's celebrities from
like fifty years ago people wouldn't be able to name, you know, and
I know Caesar's like a big deal, but it's just like people break off
they split up, like and then there's a klan over there, like to
the exact opposite right of Proximus, they're all about Caesar. It's a like
not the real Caesar, because like Caesar wouldn't be just be going to camp
fucking killing other apes. So like that's to me, one of the best
moments is when you get when the big guys of the mass he kills someone
and his first line is for Caesar, and it's like that's like this,
this is exact opposite, Like that's what I love about it, right,
is because they've taken that, but not like I could believe that I could,
And that's why I don't think you need that. I thought it was
a fan like fantastic opening, like going like starting at war immediately from him
dying, you know, to like the flowers fire, we're seeing rocket,
we're seeing Marie Maurice. Yeah, you're seeing poor Caesar's son just fucking have
him, gonna have PTSD. The rest was like he just looks up to
his dad on fire. So I'm sure that was great, But no,
I love because I was like like not to be like like no, not
a pun, but it was like a literal passing of the torch moment to
like the next generation. So I thought I was kind of like, hey,
this is like it is a sequel, but it's not. This is
this is stuff important, But you don't also need to be beholden where you
won't understand if you haven't seen them. I thought it was like a just
a fit because I feel like you could watch that opening and still understand the
rest of the movie. And also if you had never seen any of them
but this one, they don't tell you what Caesar would have thought, so
you could still think, oh, like, what what do you think of
the situation? So I thought that was a like perfectly well done, well
executed opening. Yeah, I think it was very important. Like I mean,
Shake came to this she hasn't seen any of the other planet of the
Apes before, so she was confused on some minor things, but it like
it was mostly just they talk about the legend of Caesar and you see him
at the beginning die and it's just well, I guess he was kind of
the main of the previous movies, so uh, they did a good job
at setting up in that sense. And it's also like I feel like this
movie is not a terrible one to jump into if you haven't seen any of
the other ones, Like you're jumping in a war and you have each other.
Yeah, oh that's that's a tough one. But the whole like potential
tie of Noah and Caesar, I'd just rather it not. It's it's not
a super pro or con if that is the case. But it's just like
it's almost like we're getting to the Skywalker stuff, like why do we have
to be attached to the certain bloodline? Like why can't we just live in
the world that his like the legend of him and his teachings is more important
than what his blood is. Well, I was gonna say, I'm finding
me a theory, but I don't want some shitt in two or three of
like oh you were Caesar's great great, Yeah, I don't need that.
I'm finally being random. It's a clan. That's why you're such a good
leader. It's because you were related to Caesar. Caesar. Yeah, Force
goes, Caesar comes out to talk to him and stuff like I like,
how you fucked up Roximus? You know, like William H. Macy just
said, I wish while he's on his knees his legs don't work right,
so he's on his knees, his throat, she's like collapsed and like like
apparently there was a little thing at the end of the credits with there's a
sound effect that they played in Orangutang. Did you hear about this? No,
Taylor, what do they do? Well? People are speculating that Raka
is still alive. Uh, do you have something some proof for that?
No, just that they played orangutang sounds at the end of the movie sounds
sound. I don't know. I didn't stay that Longime lied to us.
We're out of here. Roka is the only orangutang in the movie. So
that's why people think, like maybe there's a catch here or something. Kirkle,
did you think he was setting us up for something? Because to me,
the way his cadenes that sound exactly like, Oh, I got the
first photo of Michael Keanes Batman right here, like his canes, I thought
he's like, oh yeah, they heard something in the credits, Like I
thought it was gonna be like the fucking like armor for Iron Man, or
like just the way he was sound and I was like, oh, I
don't believe the ship sounds Yeah, Charles Heston's laugh the credits, damn fucking
ape. I'm gonna you're telling me there's a whole camp of women all Nova.
Yeah, I'm gonna fuck all the Novas Nova Sadwich light my cigar?
Are you fucking monkey? He would have kicked the ship out. William made
Macy's character, oh man, and he would be like eight ft tall over
him, right, just remember the legless wonder Macy's character just tossing. We
were talking about Dave krans put fucking Hesston ship played Superman. Let's go big.
Hessen is my god. But in another world. One thing I want
to say, because they don't have my notes, a con for me,
I can kind of get there. I'll steal on it. Because Terror was
like, yeah, gorillas are dumb, So I'm fine that I did not
enjoy that. All the Vault goes down. This is where all the bad
apes. You can debate their bad Proximus team. Uh Noah's team. Hell
aside, we're fucking getting out here. We can't swim, We're gonna be
drowned. Let's go. They're about to go up fucking not Aldough sees them.
Oh, and he asked them to have a fight scene. For me,
it just didn't work. I guess you can try and do the whole
gorillas are dumb, but it's just like it's like I just didn't think he
was dumb enough to he's gonna kill himself and Noah to get like And here's
another thing too, because I agree that like mass we just didn't like him.
I get that, but I needed more, Like I needed to see
this gorilla really fucking hate no or Noah to embarrass him or do something like
I just didn't think that hatred was really there. Like for me, I
could believe in the last movie Woody Harrelson or Caesar, like Caesar did right.
Caesar stayed back multiple times to kill himself pretty much to get Woody Harrelson,
I believed everything and bought why he would do that. I wouldn't buy
why this gorilla would be like to just throw his life away, like I
gotta take this guy down. I'm fine with the fight scene if they get
up to the mountain, but to me and like it's there's like a fun
set piece, that's cool, but that took me out of it. That
was something in the end or the third actress like they just wanted another fight
scene, and I don't think it was needed. It took down my experience.
So maybe over time i'll i'll stew or i'll simmer on it and I'll
see how it feels. But in the moment, it did not feel.
It didn't feel natural or like here, I'll fucking praise it. Look at
Avatar two. World's going to shit. But I can believe why those two
on a fight right Cordage just clone and what's his name, Sam Worthington,
Like one killed his son, one killed him. I buy the stakes completely
of Hey, these guys might drown where they're fighting, but it's like this
is it. They got to kill each other. I completely buy the stake.
So there's a praise for Avatar two. Didn't buy it here unfortunately.
So I think, like you just have rangutangs at the top, and then
you have the these Apes second, and then you have the Gorilla's last and
I think it just fits with the trajectory of how they've been played intelligence.
Yeah, I think it fits with how the gorillas have been portrayed in all
the other Apes films, especially because the gorillas are always just like, oh,
let's go fight let's go to war. Like we saw what Aldo was
the worst of them, just being so like. So I think he just
goes to show like this. He's just he's rage filled. He just wants
to fuck this guy up. This guy like he knows who who Noah is.
Noah kicked his ass a few times, has pissed him off. So
this as it's like a red smarter and kick his ass, kicked his ass,
and Noah's standing over him like I am the fucking king chimp. And
then he had him dragging on his horse and like kicked him into the ground.
So I'd say he kicked his ass a few times he's kicked. That
would be like that'd be like some bully grabs your biked hand and you kick
him off. He came back, Yeah, I fucking you know that bully.
You know I kicked his ass, ki ki ki kick his ass,
kick his asses? You said, yeah, kicked the ass of the grill
is saying no more, that didn't happen. I just didn't buy that they
had a blood. He won, he won, uped him then a few
times with the smartness. But I I think that's enough for how the gorilla
is a portrayed to definitely be pissed off. They're not. There's no Lucas,
that's for sure. Luca was was a gem. So we'll ask because
I don't want to forget where where are bad boons? And all this?
Because I made the ass show? But where where how we got no bad
boons? In these weird questions. I think it's just they're they're trying to
stick to the original Planet of the Apes, and the Planet of the Apes
just had chimps orangutans predictions right that we didn't even knows we have the Bonobos
though, that's what proximates. Caesar was, Yeah, I'm gonna make a
prediction in five or six we're gonna get a baboon, and five or six
we're gonna get a baboon because you gotta do some new spaceship lands. You
could put Rafiki in there. Man, they owned the rights, Disney they
own you can get the one that I've seen the most. Is what I
really want is, you know, let's say they look up the Stars ship
crashes and you're like, oh, fuck, the remaking plan of the Apes.
Here we go, Charlton Heston that I'm painting you the teaser. Imagine
that the ship it's you know, it's apes. You see a ship crashing,
No one's watch it crash. They go, fuck, they're doing apes
cockpit breaks and stuff like, oh here we go, who did they recast?
At heston? Things? Stands up and it's a fucking Predator. And
that's the one I'm definitely with, Like people saying because they own the rights,
imagine doing a movie where the Predator lands on the fucking Apes planet.
Fuck, like, give me all fuck man, I want to see the
apes humans are still there, Like what the fuck? He just kills all
the bunker humans, Like I just and not even Cannon. Just give me
a prey like movie. But they're Apes. I fucking want that so bad
because at first I'm like, well, the Predator's gonna fuck up the Apes,
like any gunshot is just gonna kill the the Apes. But man,
like they're good in the trees and oh yeah, they're fast, they're crafty,
especially they got the Simian intelligence rape and hands four hands exactly a lot
of grabbing potential. Just to comment on the not Aldo death sequence, I
was definitely like, I mean, I feel like I'm mostly with you,
Travis. It seems a pretty unnecessary thing to play the devil, to play
devil's advocate. I would say that he's probably not so much just dumb to
do that. It's more so he's just like pure loyal to Proximus. And
this is Proximus's main threat right now, so I'm gonna it doesn't matter about
my life. I'm gonna take out Proximus's main threat and then he can,
you know, win the war after this. So I feel like that's my
way to kind of allow like the acceptance of that. But now you're right,
it seemed pretty unnecessary, Like it seemed like he could just kick the
shit out of Noah once he makes it to the top, right, or
maybe gorillas just aren't really good climbers, and like he knew that he wasn't
gonna be able to get out of there. I don't know. I've never
seen a gorilla climb a tree before, I don't think, So maybe that's
the thing taking it down with If I'm gonna die, You're gonna die,
you know, so exactly, And again it wasn't a big comment. There
was a moment that sounded very when yeah, when he left his clan spot,
it sounded like yeah, and I was like, you're fucking right.
That sounded like Hans Zimmer was getting that Orchestral ready drink up apes. Me.
Oh but yeah, And like I said, it's probably just because,
like we say that, right when things are great, there's some things you
kind of let slide go. I didn't like that, but whatever. But
when I was already like had some issues with the third act and then this
happened, I was like, okay, and same thing. I was really
worried about the fight with Proxma and then then she the apes turned against them.
But I was like, I don't buy that they're just gonna because at
first I thought it was just gonna be Noah, he's gonna ask and he's
just gonna the birds turn on him and the crowd cheer. But it's like
there's a fucking like fifty plus a few apes like trust me, You're like,
you guys can kick the ship out of problem. Like I wasn't buying
that, but then I I was happy they started to cheer and they got
fired up, so I was happy it made that turn. But I was
really worried they're just gonna, like, well, I hope no one makes
it out and I was like, well, I don't give a shit about
any of these apes now because they're just fucking letting Noah die, you know,
but no they uh, they all turn around and yeah, those birds
sucking up. I don't think Proximus for sure dead either, because the in
chow body there, there's a long fall. But like that, I think
it's almost like how we said with Coba when they talked about with three,
and we're like, yeah, that could have been cool, but you did
everything you could. That's where the Proximus like, I don't think you've done
everything you could with them. I think there's more meat on the bone there
with that character, and maybe i'd like to see that back. Maybe then
you get close to the Dawn territory I was gonna see maybe like you have
the humans and apes coming together, but Proximus fuck set up. But that's
where you gotta be careful with the part five now, is if they're gonna
do something where it's like humans and apes are getting together and they break up,
you can't make it be like another ape like doing a setup. Right.
So that's where already I'm like, Okay, maybe Proximus would like because
Proximus would just forced the bad ape things. So I really don't know,
but I'm I think there's still chance he had come back, So yeah,
I'm with you. I don't think it was definitive finish to him. And
I mean, if he's alive, no reason Rock I can't still be alive.
You know. I definitely comment when Taylor brought it up at the end
with the post credit scene, but I was bummed that we didn't get any
resolution there at least like a confirmation of his body or he came back.
I was really expecting him to come back, just because he gets swept away.
You know. You can say apes can't really swim, but the confirmation
of the body you want, you want to show him on the floor,
like I'll bloat it up, like yeah, like a beached whale, just
fucking thousands. I don't like that. No, he it just seemed like
we had Maybe I'm just so used to having like Maurice around and like you
always have that one orangutang that everybody loves with the crew, and like Maurice
didn't die, you know, like at least of natural or of unnatural cause.
Is so I just I don't know I really like Raka. We we
didn't really talk about him too much, but like, maybe I'll just transition
to that right now. I thought he was fantastic, Travis. You mentioned
this earlier about just the whole legend of what Caesar was. I just loved
his whole lessons that he was giving to Noah here and uh, just the
whole idea that we live in an era that not everyone actually knows who Caesar
is. Because the first three movies, everyone that's an ape knows who Caesar
is, because Caesar's still alive and he is like the leader of all the
apes, and he is the one that gave them the Simeon intelligence, right,
Like he's the one that's snuck it out of the lap. So I
guess it wasn't really a sneak. It was pretty fucking bang down the doors
and do it. He's pretty secretive actually, but he's snuck in the U
Will Rodvin's house, remember, So yeah, and then he did the whole
Yeah, we'll just checked on his girlfriend's. I think a good example here
too is with War, you have bad ape who has no idea who Caesar
is. I think that goes to show these are their colonies that have formed.
These are clans that are formed that have no idea who Caesar is.
And that's the other thing too. Caesar's clan is they're big on like the
sign language, and I like that that was carried over inherently in Noah's clan,
whereas bad Ape just talks. You didn't see I don't think you saw
any signing with Proximus Caesar. They were he was just using Caesar's story as
just his own abults and hand gestures just to like emphasize things, but not
necessarily like how exercise it. Yeah, exactly, So that's that's made It's
another inherent thing that's passed down because maybe he's a descendant who knows you will
love the meta Chlorians in his blood Bress. Yeah, No, I don't
go much for Avan. Then you guys are right standout character, great love
the chemistry. I'm kind of fine if he's dead because I feel like that's
some of the best things about the Aprills. We talked about that, like
when you lose people, you lose them, you know, like it's like
a like a Sometimes, especially I'd say the Modern trilogy is very depressing at
times, So I like the freakout or the fake outs. But I just
feel like, especially there's like a little bit of a time jump. I'm
not opposed to it. I think it would have to be how it's done.
I do like the character, so it wouldn't be like, oh fuck,
they brought him back. But at the same time, it's like that
could be good going forward for May to be like this monkey is ape Iranutang
when she's talking to humans, literally gave his life for me, and that
if he's alive, not that he didn't do the sacrifice, but I feel
like it has that much more weight for that character now of I would be
dead and you guys would not have communications with anybody if this Orangutang didn't save
me, if he didn't kill himself and he didn't have to do that,
he didn't have to do like he might had a better He would have had
a better shot living than her, because they probably would have just put him
in the camp right and worked and he could have busted out, but he
decided to swap places with her. So that's where I think maybe I lean
on the side of him staying dead. So for May, it's I've met
apes at will kill themselves to just save me and they can't. We So
that moment in the next one when they got a fucking firing squad on all
these monkeys, and May is like, should I just let them kill these
monkeys? That could be some of your reflects on of Like, like,
no, I can't. So that's where I lean to maybe he should stay
dead for May as a character to grow. Yeah, I think you mentioned
that right now makes me think that maybe they should have had more of an
emphasis in that, like on that in the movie of just May like feeling
grateful that Rocky did that because he did not have to do that, and
that is something that he just you know, he puts someone else above him
and not even someone of his own race, like it, like it is
a really big thing, especially him just pretty much dying for what Caesar believed
in right that, like it is potential to have humans and apes living together
and being cooperative. So I loved it from Rocca's side, But like,
now that you mentioned that, it's like, oh, maybe I see the
movie a little bit less that they didn't really have a lot of emphasis on
that, because I feel like initially she kind of is like shocked obviously when
RockA dies, like she is like, oh my god, he's actually gone.
But there's no like wait where she's staying up at night because she's all
tortured at the fact that that Roka died because of her. But also maybe
you know, to play my own devil's advocate in that sense, maybe it's
because she has a goal, she has a set goal. She doesn't really
necessarily care if apes die. She has to get this book to you know,
air quote book so to survive, like to get her race to survive,
and to the extent she doesn't, right because she flooed that thing knowing
that apes are probably gonna die, right, So maybe that's something she'll sit
on. But uh, yeah, they could refer to it. But I
agree you could have done more at that the same way, like I said,
I wish they did more with Noah's dad being dead because I felt like
that was a big plot point that they didn't follow up on. But both
those points, I feel like they could bring them back in the sequel.
And maybe it's a dawn situation where this just builds like this set the platform,
and then the sequel for it gets to be like just really fucking,
really good because now you know all the players. Not that this wasn't really
good, but it's just like with Dawn, they didn't have to do a
bunch of setup, right, you know who Caesar was, and then you
got you knew who fucking Cooba was, right, New Rocket was like,
you knew these characters already, so now with these two and the other people,
you'll know. So that was pent anything that we haven't covered that you
guys want to cover. I loved how this started. I love seeing a
little tiny fallout scene with our familiar characters and just them giving I don't know
if you guys highlighted this when I was, oh, maybe you're away okay,
I might have had my head turned. I think you had about the
Caesar like epilogue. Yeah, yeah, I love that. That was That
was just really really unexpected and really really nice. So do you think they
get the mocap free version where they just like the actor on fire? And
that's why I needs they were fine like Noah's friends? Yeah, no,
soon it was good. I I really love the the moment with uh what
was his name? Anaya? Uh? Like the like the third friend initially
when he's like super scared and he doesn't want to go I again, like
I just love the emphasis that Proximus had him under his thumb, right,
and like, yeah it was I also just kind of took it that like
he represents the the apes that are not just in the Eagle Klan, but
all the apes under Proximist's control, and like how you get that effect right,
where like we have this resistance forming, but there would be ones even
though it benefit them to win that resist like that win that fight under the
resistance. It's just what if we don't win and then he's just gonna kill
us or like punish us even further. In war, right, they were
the same way the reason that's why they went with the humans just because they
didn't want to die Donkeys in war like gorillas, remember the don Like oh
right, the same thing, like real life or with donkeys. I don't
know what the hell are they're gonna be in the sequel the Deer Planet the
Deer, They're gonna be planning of the donkeys, and we're just gonna planning
the donkeys with the flashlights. Yeah, are you a deer? Are you
a donkey? What are you coming this summer? I really really love the
moment when uh, just the more rocous stuff when they were going through the
airport and they're just like what is this And it's like, I don't know.
I think it's just where they kind of assembled, and you know,
like it's just was really cool, especially for through Noah's eyes to see like
an image of a human, you know, like dressed up and like just
like what even is this? Like this doesn't make any sense and it would
make no sense when all you see the echoes of what you have seen them.
They're dirty, they have no in their outfits, and you see this
like even to the no it's not like, oh, he's well kept,
because it's like you didn't even know what a fucking suit it is either,
So it's not like, oh this is like a it's it must just be
such a weird image to him. But all all that airport stuff is top
tier stuff. And like they just did such an emphasis of like having the
viewer see it through Noah's eyes and him just really being puzzled, like it
is like you're seeing Caveman, you know, drive drive a car or something
like it was just so perplexed, you know, shout out to Nova.
I love the sequence and Rocas just like call her Nova. I was talking
to you know, Patren Tyler earlier, and he was just he was saying,
like, oh, are they gonna fucking call him nova because they always
called like nova. They're just obsessed with this name. But then he drops
the funny line of like, well, just like they're all called Nova.
We don't know what to do with Caesar, but we just called that.
And I love that because that remember when we talked about with war and Nova,
Like, oh, that's another sign that it's not the same timeline.
Now you can just sell well everybody gets called Nova again. So I was
like, Okay, they kind of were bounced back a little there. So
No, I thought that was a good joke, which you could clearly see
in the theater. Who had who was a fan of the original plan apes
and who wasn't, Because I feel like half fartier laughed and then other half
was like, I don't know, why is this funny? Fucking losers?
You know, Yeah she didn't laugh. Yeah. When they were doing like
the tall climb to get the eggs and the early portions, man, I
was just just thinking of Pandora and when they're going to get their their flying
mouths, the pandoris, the water like and you're right with the eggs,
tons of that. Yeah. Yeah. Other than that, I don't think
I have any other notes that I reminded myself to write down, So I
think I'm out. Yeah. No, what I was gonna say is we
can just answers quickly because they don't want to forget. Clay put a question
on for the newscast. I said, I'd save it for this one,
and I don't want to forget it because just in case rankings, you know,
you know, all the weast goes, we get tired, we get
stuff. I know time might be tired right now. But allegedly Westball's not
super interested in doing the whole trilogy to Apes, as you just completed another
trilogy with Maids Runner. If he does not return, who would you like
to see twentieth Century Fox or twenty Century Studios get to co write Slash directed?
I think for me, like it's a cop out answer, like just
to say, like who's right for the jaw? But like none of the
people that have directed Apes so far are people Like when Matt Reeves took over
Rubert Wyatt, I didn't know who Rubert Wyret was I'd have to look at
and see what he did before apes, but I didn't know him and Matt
Reeves took over. He was just the Cloverfield guy. It's like, okay,
cool enough, same thing as Wes Ball. It's like, oh,
he's the Maze Runner guy. And even for May's Runner, like I feel
like I hear mixed things from people that go, oh, I like to
to like, oh, it's mid So I guess that's all you'd say is
probably someone in some like you look at reevesaid Cloverfield, west Ball had Maze
Runner, someone that has like a one film franchise, not complete franchise,
but just something like like something on a bigger scale. So I really don't
know. Unfortunately, not unfortunately, it's good for Jurassic World. But like
if anyone it would have been, like uh, Gareth Edwards, I think
he would have been a good spot, like he would have been someone because
if you say it to co write and co direct, who knows. Because
like Rogue one, I don't think it was the strongest versus motions, but
I liked Creator and I think I had some good emotions and I think even
Creator is dealing with some of those issues right of like AI and human,
but you could swap some of that with the ape and stuff. So that's
who I would pick. But honestly, so far, I've trusted them,
and west Ball was the test for me. When I heard the Maize Runner
guy, I was like, okay, and that's where like we talked about
today in the discord check or discord because there's like rumored X Men writers and
I was like, I don't really like these choices, but like the super
Bad Mike's point is anything can change in time or the structure or the studio.
Like west Ball, I'm probably gonna check out some of those Maze Runners.
I had no interest, but I want to see more of his stuff
now that I've seen this in Zelda. But from what I've seen and talked
to no one, I've never been anyone what all Maze Runner is the shit?
Right, It's always just yeah, it's good. So that's where you
can get someone to me, this is like a big step up for him.
But yeah, i'd say like a Gareth Edwards, one that has some
franchise experience, but maybe it's not super said, maybe Edwards would be too
expensive, but yeah, just somebody that's done one thing, maybe like before
she did the Marvels unfortunately, like uh uh needed Acosta, but she's doing
twenty eight days later so or twenty years later the sequel. So I think
a lot of them have all my picks are kind of on things. But
that's what I would have thought. You guys, got anybody? I am
so bad with these like director choices. I was quickly trying to google some
people I don't even know, just to throw a name, because I I
thought he was fucking mall from uh from Inception there for a second. Yeah,
I don't know, Oh, Sarah Christopher McCrory, I don't even know
who in there? Mission possible, okay, and some there's some mostly action
I guess in there. It's funny because these movies are action movies, but
like I just see them kind of as a drama or like a mostly drama.
I guess actions like third down the line, it's like drama like pull
like social issues and then action, you know, get Yeah, that's the
thing though. Does Tom Cruise play a human or a monkey? You know,
I'd love to have to be a human. I would love him to
play a monkey. It'd be great, but yeah, he he would,
he could be Rafiki. I feel like if he's if he's, if he's
an ape, he has to be super separate from it. Probably cap it's
like a human ass dong hanging around what I've said as I I'll stand by
it until he proves me wrong he does something else. Collateral is his best
role he's ever done. That's where he's a villain. If we want some
piece of ship human that's down underground, give me a quarry directing a villain
tom Cruise against the apes. Fuck yeah, I'd be that'd be like a
better Woody Harrelson. Yeah. And the good thing is with Tommy, like,
oh, well you're really a hero because like you're fighting for the humans,
but you know, doing it for a terrible get some like Tropic Thunder
what's his name? Less? Gross? Yeah, fuck you monkeys. H
Taylor, any thoughts, any person out there you thought could make a good
director of Westball, because also he's the X and it sounds like he's not
doing uh maybe he'll do the sequel, but yeah, he did kind of
infer that maybe he won't do the whole thing, so it might be like
Rupert Whitt where he did rise and then he bounced off and Matt Reeves finished
it off. So I mean you said it, Kirk. James Cameron would
be perfect. He's gonna leave his ten Avatar movies and go make an as
movie. Do them, you know, to do them. Fuck? They
could also cross over, right, that's technically they could cross over. Yeah,
get Pandora in there something. Yeah, that's where the ship takes him.
He lands on Earth and you're not Earth. You're on Pandora the koritch
man like Tom Cruise. I don't even think it's out of the realm of
possibility. I feel like you could get that actor in these apes movie playing
basically the Tom Cruise asshole that you just pitched like. He could play an
ape to. I could see him put on the mo cap. It's exactly
like he starts as a human. Next movie, he's like a virtual.
He did what am I saying? Put on the cap? He did put
on the mocap. He was fucking cap that whole movie number two exactly.
Man, gravity this gravity will make you weak or saw whatever the fuck the
line is anyone else than James Cameron or that's your that's your that's my pick.
I'm going with it. There you go. I hope you're Clay.
You let us know you Lessen on Discord other patrons and Discord people, let
us know, Kirkland. What is your final score for Kingdom of the Planet
of the Apes. Yeah, so my first. I think I'm gonna start
with saying it's my first score because I definitely think this is one that can
really fluctuate on on multiple No, I'm not gonna say, you know,
an Asterix place, but just for my first Intel Shore review, I think
I'm gonna go. I think eight point five right now. I feel like
it's maybe a little bit too high, just because of how much issues I
have with just the pacing of that third act. But I think they did
such a great job of just establishing where the world is here. I really
really loved our heroes and our characters. I thought Freya Allen, I think
that's her name, you know, the actress that played May. I thought
she was fantastic as the role that she was in, and I forgot to
mention it actually when we were talking about her. But because she is like
English, she's playing like she kind of has a classic North American and American
accent. In this, but there's definitely moments when I could hear her her
native tongue coming out, when she had emphasize certain words. I feel like
I wouldn't have noticed it if I didn't see The Witcher, just because she
had like she talks like that in The Witcher. But no, I thought
she was great. I liked proximates Caesar for at least his usage there,
and the movie looked beautiful, like we never really talk about just how they
look, but yeah, you feel at any point. So it still wasn't
as good as War and Down, though I felt like if there was Rise
and this was I think at times, but I don't think there's any eight
visuals that looked Proxima looks good and what was his name, Radica right like
they looked rock. I think they were like the highest, but there were
still times in Dawn and War felt this looks like a real fucking monkey where
I still feel like they never there was still like a little gloss on them.
I feel like it was closer to Rise for me than that. It's
still not bad, still better than Rise, but there was I don't know
if they ever got the heights of those other two. I didn't see it
lesser than but this was also the first one that I'd seen in theaters,
so maybe it was just like to see it on the big screen. It
was just an experience because you've you've probably seen all those other ones in theaters,
eh I did, Yes, Yeah, so there you go. But
yeah, no, I I really really enjoy this and it was good enough
that the pacing issues I had didn't affect it too much. I'm still a
little yeah, it could have been better like it like, I think the
fact that it is eight point five and for the first two acts I thought
it was gonna be a ten ten out of ten is a big disappointment because
that is a pretty big drop off, like a full point and a half
just for that reason. But no, yeah, it was. It was
fantastic. It was good little cap off to the retro and very much looking
forward to see where the story goes. Yeah, yeah, no, I
think I'm the exact same. I've gone back and forth between like a eight
point five and a nine. It's it's tough, so like it would never
be. I don't think we would ever get as highs like a nine point
five or ten. I think I do have issues that no matter what when
I rewatch, and they're not gonna change. I think they're They're strong,
you know, errors or flaws, but not as strong as sense of like
that's a flaw. I don't think it works, not in the sense of
this is really bad. But no, I think overall was great. I
think they did. I think the thing that we also didn't talk about is
like, I guess War is a mixed one, but still just that whole
trilogy is hailed as in high regard. They could easily drop a ball majorly
right, and even then it's not Reason is not Riot, but it's also
not Circus, and Circus had a big deal to do with that, right,
And hopefully he can bring some of that to goll because I didn't see
any of that and vent I'm out there be cardage, so I hope that
can happen. But this why in this route they carried like I said,
if it's a torch passing, they carried it well. So I think I'm
like an eight point five. I don't know, I had some like I
said at eight point five nine, it's somewhere I kind of I'm literally rocking
back and forth. I guess I can cheat and say right now, I'll
be an eight point seventy five. I'll go in the middle, and I
think a second rewatch will solidify it. Plus talking with other people to see
you know, made and pros constants. Maybe there's more stuff like oh that
didn't really work or I see a different side. But see, I'll go
like an eight point seventy five. So I don't know if it's I don't
know if it's in my top five. I don't know it's it's closed into
the top ten though for this year, and I'm happy. Though that's the
same thing of like we've gotten so many great apes movies, even just getting
Dawn. I don't expect anyone to be ever as good as Dawn again,
because that to me is like a like a masterpiece for sci fi stuff.
So for me, it's just like if I get another great to good ages
movie, I'm happy, you know with this is so far from Beneath and
Battle and you know a couple other like the twenty two thousand and one one,
Like there's so many we talked about where it's like, oh, yeah,
this was very fun for what it was, but boys, their issues.
I don't have this. This is like kay, wasn't the greatness of
some of the Reeves ones, but still pretty damn good. So mister Field
closes off. Yeah, I think everything we've talked about, I think it
really hits home. I think we brought up some good points. And for
me, this this movie, it just it stands. I love this.
It's a ten out of ten for me. This is a fantastic world.
I love being in a familiar setting with a new story and new characters to
explore and their their developments. I think that they they did a lot of
really really wonderful things with the way they told this story and the motivations for
the characters, and getting to see the tribulations as well. It just sets
up a really interesting new storyline with new films that are really eager to watch
and just to learn about this this new world that exists generations after war.
While this film definitely pulls for me, it pulls things from a variety of
different apes movies, I think it still does a good job at trying to
conform and shape them into being its own identity. So this is one that
I'm definitely gonna be watching many a time. I was thinking eventually I would
buy the plan of the Apes trilogy. But now I'm not even gonna buy
it now when it's a quadrilogy because if we get that next film and that
next film, then I gotta wait for like the six Ology bundle, like
the Resident Evil movies. So yeah, there's gonna be a big box set.
I don't know. I hope there's some neat steal books that'd be pretty
cool. Sweet comes in like a cage or something too, Like what kind
of marketing can they get crazy with? That'd be pretty wild. Just James
Franco's house from the movie Rise already forgot will not Norman, That's that's sorry,
Norman Rodman aka Norman my name is Norman Rodman Osborne something of myself like
the real man. And yeah, or you just wait, get the whole
pack to maybe they'll make every single Apes ever made. And you just got
to happen right for the Bond for the old Bond movies, and there's still
since then been new ones. That's the least got to be like a two
hunred dollars edition. I'd be down for that. Yeah, well that would
be wonderful. Well, we're not done with Apes yet. We've talked about
the death. But next week we will do a ranking episode to end it
off, and then we'll wait until we get some more apes and see what
happens there. But yes, it was a fun journey. Very definitely one
of my favorite retros. It was good to do all these great that we
got this and great that overall were positive. And it kind of sucks when
we do retros and it leads up to like a man that's always like,
oh, you know, it's kind of flating, but this is like,
I'm a satisfied end with this, and now they're there. Now anytime about
apes, you can go, get back and check. We've talked about every
single one. We'll be back next week to rank some apes, see where
that all lies. And I will not be boring. No, although no,