On location and driven by Victor Chrystlin Dodgs, Gie Brown. It's Bilified the
Bill Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome. Thanks for getting your pond
on. Thanks for telling a friend. That's how we spread the word about
the pirate ship in twenty twenty three. In twenty twenty four, you know,
it's we come to the end of a year. I don't know that
many people make New Year's resolutions, but you try to be better than you
were in twenty twenty three. What is it that is the edge? What's
going to put you over in twenty twenty four? And a lot of times
it's simple things that we forget. It's consistency, which sometimes gets boring.
It's finding that drive to push yourself just a little bit further, which you
can feel boring or not fun. And I thought, well, we can
all say it, we probably all sort of know it. Well, why
not go to high achievers that we sat down with this past year. Two
professional athletes, a couple who are lawyers and run a very successful firm for
the past twenty years. They're both in different practices of law and a PhD.
So we'll start off with Major League soccer star Jeff Park and Jeff is
an interesting story. I love one thing he says in this. I knew
I could turn it on at any moment. I always say self awareness is
so important. So I, you know, I got into it when I
was you know, seven eight, played in the rec ball and all that
got started getting really good at it. And then fast forward to junior high.
We pushed our team like seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth grade years
were really good. Yeah, so they knew if they pushed us, you
know, once we got to high school, you know, are that four
or five years, we're going to be pretty good. Yeah. So we
went back to back States. Wow, yeah, we were we were,
we were good, and then we should have won it my sophomore year.
Pulled that mic just a little closer, you can just pull the whole thing,
yeah towards you. We we uh, we won States back to back,
but we you know, should have won it the year before that too,
so we should have had three. So did you go on a scholarship?
Then the college I got? So it's my grades sucked. I wasn't
good. It was good. Crazy story, So I I went to ended
up going to Drexel. My coach My head coach for my high school team
played for the coach at Drexel, so he's like, look, you got
to take this kid. He's not as a walk on. No I got.
I ended up getting a scholarship, so I went. They gave me
a scholarship. I only went to like two or three visits. I played
for sc Delco with the best club in arguably in the country at the time,
and I got overlooked. My grades weren't good. I went to Drexel.
They offered me a full ride. I was like, don't have any
options, but I'll take it. So you know, they're like, look,
you got to get your grades up. So crazy story was I I
got to the end of the year. I negotiated with my English teacher the
semester before. I was like, look, you got I Now where are
you currently when you say in high school? Still in high school? High
school? Now you're negotiating at the high level trying to get into college.
Right, I need a certain GPA. It was like a two five or
something like that. I was at at the time. I knew I had
to like basically get a's and b's the rest of the school year. So
I go like midterm, like Decembrush. I'm like, listen, miss Party
that was her name. If I get high a's the next two semesters,
will you raise that be that I got in the second semester so that I
got to get into college. And the lady was like, you know,
I'll give you a chance. So I go. I ended up getting like
ninety three ninety four the next two terms, and I go back. I
get my grades at the end of the year and I'm like, oh shit,
like I'm below the two five. If I don't get a two five
with my s A T that wasn't that high, I'm not going to college.
So I call her. I go in after the I get my final
grades and I go into like the administrative office at my high school and downtown.
I'm like, I got to call this teacher. You know, I
was supposed to she was supposed to change my my past. My in like,
who are you saying this to? At the time, I'm saying to
the administrator like whoever like was sitting at they must be looking at you.
You're out of your head. Yeah, what are you looking at me?
Like you're crazy? So I said, you know, I need to get
hold of her. Can you call her on the phone, Like, basically
my scholarship my college, Yeah, depends on her changing that B to an
AY. So I get in touch with her. She's like, yeah,
I did make that deal with you, Jeff. All right, So she
I give it to the administrator right that was sitting at the desk, and
she's like, yeah, change it to an A. She changes it.
My grade from like A two it's like a two three nine went to a
two to five perfect. And I was in I was in college. Let
me ask you something, because I was much the same way all the and
my parents were teachers, right, But you have kids, now, if
you had just applied yourself, do you know what I'm saying? Like you
got nineties, you were capable, and does that frustrate you, Like with
your own kids, would you be harder on them because of that knowing they
have that ability? Like that was always my thing too, is that most
of the time if I showed up, you know, it depended Like I
ran track in the spring, and for whatever reason, every spring my grades
went up. I don't know if that was the running was great with like
ad D and I had something, but I was always probably low eighties,
if I showed up low nineties, if I even just tried a little bit,
you know what I mean that that kind of thing. It's almost like
because when I graduated high school, my father said to me, I don't
know whether to shake your hand or kick your ass. That's exactly what he
said. Dumber than you got scholarships and stuff, and I'm looking at a
guy who clearly are a smart guy, athletic guy. Yeah, you did
it, and he negotiated. Yeah, I mean that's even like that's even
a skill. That's a better skill. Well, yeah, negotiation. I
had to figure something out because I was like, look, if I don't
get it, I'm done. Like, I don't know, I'm not going
to community school. Yeah, I mean I know I have the athleticism to
play at the next level. Yeah, but how do I get myself to
be able to be eligible for that? What a great thing, though,
to learn to to have that drive, you know, if there's a goal
to be able to reach that and you did it, Well, that's what
sports teaches you. I mean, it's you got a common goal obviously amongst
the team, and then you got your individual goal of your own performance and
what you need to do to prepare yourself. And you know, unfortunately I
didn't learn the the the self performance part until I was like in my mid
twenties. What did your parents do? My dad was self employed. He
did a lot of landscaping contracting, and then he kind of found his niche
later in life with like, you know, basically subbing up with one of
the biggest companies in the country that owns water businesses throughout the you know,
all the states. So he kind of tied up with that, and that's
what made him because I mean when I was little, I mean it was
it was tough. You know, We've got a self employed working all the
time, trying to make right that seasonal yea, And he was. I
mean, he's arguably the hardest working guy I've ever met. Never stops.
It's just that you need good luck at times. And Mom was around.
Mom was around. She ended up doing her own thing. My parents split
when I was twelve, which that was that was arguably one of the biggest
obstacles in my whole life. You know, I mean, I I kind
of went into the you know, not the dark period because as a kid
you don't even know it, like that act out, you do stuff,
you start drinking and yeah, you know, smoking weed and stuff like that.
Right, that derailed me for a while. But I always had that
thing in me that I knew, you know, I could turn it on
at any time, right, and currently I did it at the right times.
I mean obviously, Like you know, I had friends that all played
sports with me, and they all kind of fell by the wayside. Still
my best buds, Like, we hung out all the time. It's just
that they chose to party and hang out with the girls and stuff. I
just chose that I could try to find that balance, and I ended up
finding it. But you know, it always hurt my grades because I ended
up going to summer school, you know, my junior year. I was
like, shit, I got to bring all my grades up now. Yeah,
but even that self awareness, I think is really an important thing at
a young age, right, junior year sixteen, Yeah, I mean fairly.
And at that time I had a lot of anger towards my dad and
everything because the divorce and what was going on with the family, and I
kind of, you know, I leaned on myself. I didn't really you
know, I had a relationship with him, but I didn't have that that
he was my guide to hard work. He wasn't my guide to like,
what's the blueprint to success? Would you? I always use this term,
I said at once. My mother got really offended. But I go,
you're almost like a feral child. Yeah, you know what I mean,
you kind of figure it out on your own. And I don't know that
that's necessarily a bad thing. I think like parents today try to do.
I mean, there's way right the term helicopter parent. We hear it.
You're also coaching, now you must witness some of that you know with parents
in sports. Yeah, a little bit, but that's uh, I think
that's amazing. So you get to Drexel, yep, and you do all
four years. I did four years. I got to my fourth year and
it's a five year program there. Okay, so I figured out. I
was like, look, I got to just get by, you know,
I'll load my schedule and then I'll pick and choose because at that time,
you were I don't know if they still can you can go through the semester.
That semester and you can go halfway through and drop classes that you're doing
bad in. Yeah, So I was like, gonn to load up and
like that whatever I do for yeah, whatever I do good in I keep.
Whatever I do bad, I drop. And then you had to keep
a certain credit load, right and and plus now you're a student athlete,
which is like a full time job. Yeah. So I I ended up
doing real well in the beginning, and you know, I had like a
three to zero or something like that, and then it started spot like going
down and I'm like, all right, I need to just keep it at
a certain level so that you know I'm eligible for that that season. So
I there was multiple times where I think it was like two years my sophomore
in junior year, my coach Lou Mill came out to me. It was
like, look, Jeff, I got to get a tutor for you the
whole time, or you know, you need to man out and be a
man and figure out how to do this this balance of school, partying and
and soccer. And I'm like, f off man, like I got this,
Like I'm gonna you know, now you're coming to me now when I'm
not doing good. But you know, where were you when I was,
like, you know, starting every game basically as a freshman, running the
show, helping the team win games. You were right out of the game.
Yeah, out of the gate play. So I was a center back
in high school and then college soccer is completely different than like I played with
Delco. We played in the flat four. We were able to like I
was playing right back, getting up and down the line, and so more
of a defensive position. Yeah okay, so but still but still like I
was in a position. I get into college and so I ended up playing
like like in a three back, and I ended up He was like,
look, I don't give a ship what you do. You're going to mark
their best player and just follow his ass all around the field. And so
you were that defensive player. Yeah, like what but not sexy. It's
not as sexy. I was like, this isn't what I signed up for.
Man. I was like, but I'll do it. So I would
go in and I would I play the game and I would literally just run
around with like some of these all American kids and just just lock up for
the game. But I was running everywhere on the field like I wasn't playing
a position. I was just you know, canceling out their threat so that
we would you know, we would win games two to one, or we'd
lose games, you know, two to one. But it wasn't you know,
it wasn't what I wanted. So I finally went to him, I
like junior year, and I'm like, I'm done with this man, Like
I don't want to be running around the field and just looking like I'm not
affecting the game all part of the game, you know, Like yeah,
I'm affecting their game, but not ours. So he's like, all right,
I'll give you a chance. He puts me in like midfield attacking center.
Man. I end up scoring like six or seven goals in like five
games, and then all of a sudden, we were winning games like three
to two. And then it came to conference and he's like, go right
back to that market. I'm like why, I don't know. He was.
He was a forward I believe as a coach, but they shifted their
mindset, like from us winning games like high see. That's like to me
that you're coaching not to lose, which I think is a bad And that's
how I looked at it. You're I was like, if we can win,
that's all that matters. Like if we win four to three, if
we win five to two, like it doesn't matter we won. Yeah,
like you care more about like if we you know, tie games, or
if we you know, leak goals, like who gives a ship? If
if you're winning, who cares? So he ended up shifting me back to
that man Mark system and we went into the conference and we we did all
right, but we same same mentality. We would win games. Now,
what's the form everybody's familiar with kind of well the college football format. So
it's somewhat confusing, I think for people along the way. But do you
get into like with hockey, they have the frozen four, do they do
the same thing. Do you get down to the four teams? Yeah?
No, they So you got your conference, you got to win out on
your conference. We we never won. I don't believe the conference and we
never got But we had a couple of years because we had like basic all
the Philly kids that were kind of rejected from big schools. Yeah, but
we we had like we had probably like eight nine Delko boys that were like
we had a legit team. So guys you had already played with then,
yeah, like so they were either yeah, they were either a year above
me or a year below me. So we had a great group. I
mean, unfortunately, we didn't really do the best that we could. There
was a lot of like injuries and stuff that happened, and you know,
guys didn't really perform like they did at club in college because I mean,
everybody thinks they're the ship when they're in you know, win in big,
big games and stuff. But when things get hard and you're you're playing a
basically like in a beer league, you're like where guys just beat the shit
out of each other the whole time, it's different. You know, like
the game wasn't sexy then it was who's got who can basically bully the other
guy. I played soccer for a brief period, and I didn't really understand
the game, and we didn't have it coming up growing up. So I
had gone to West Point to a summer camp to learn to play. I
still couldn't really figure it out. So I used to just run through guys
and there was one team they would punch me right in the face every time.
For whatever reason, I kind of liked it. I was like,
buddy, I did. I enjoyed that. But that's uh because there's a
lot of movement in soccer and a lot of communication and it's actually if you
if you watch at the professional level, it's it's a beautiful game. I
mean when they're playing, he can almost see the patterns and the triangles,
and you know, if you know what you're looking for. So from Drexel,
you go, yeah, so it's from Drexel. I I spoke to
my coach. My coach was like, look, Jeff, you want to
play at the next level. And I was like, yeah, definitely do
And he's like, all right, well, I think you can. I'll
make some phone calls because he obviously has been around the game for so long,
he's got connections with different people. Fortunately, you know, he was
he coached and knew Bob Bradley, who used to it was the Metro Stars
coach at the time. Okay, and they were like, look, we'll
get you a trial with them and Kansas City because they knew both coaches.
So I was like all right. So I basically said to myself, all
right, I know I'm going somewhere, right And it comes the end of
the year and I'm like, okay, So I finished my senior year fall
season, I go into their like are you going to sign up for classes?
And I'm like, fuck, no, I know what I need to
do, So I drop out. Not drop out of school, I just
don't sign up for classes. So I spend the winner there at the Drexel
training facility, and I was like, I'm going to train as hard as
I can. So what like being a student athlete and all, you know,
I think it's a it's a different thing. One of my sons is
on a Division two track team. He's a thrower, so he's and there's
workouts and scheduled stuff. But when you're doing a team sport, he's more
individual, right, it's his performance, his practice, and they got you
know, a bunch of guys. But I think it's got to be very
different because then there's also meetings, right, and you probably are watching film
so that that believe it or not. So the game has progressed so much
from when I started, when I was in college and then when I was
in pro. When I was in college, we we watched a little bit
of film, not much, you know, like things weren't really as available
then. You didn't really have like the they had all like all the technology.
Now it has come where you can literally have a camera on every single
player or know their distance travel like we used to where like the monitors and
and stuff. They're like little level the pro level. In college, you
didn't have anything really, So it was just starting to develop in the in
the early two thousands then, and you know, I we we had our
meetings, but not really So I went in and knowing that I was going
to go to the next level somehow or at least be seen. So I
trained every day. What would that what would that take? Like, what
would that be? So I wouldn't I would get up at like six o'clock
in the morning. If you have a coach or nobody really impressed. Nobody
even knew, like they didn't really know. My only guy that knew really
what I was doing was my athletic trainer. Why did you not tell anybody?
I don't know. I think, yeah, I think it was just
like, look, I'm gonna do this on my own. I have a
big belief a lot of times, right that if you have an idea like
that, don't tell anybody because they're gonna go damn man. Everybody tries to
get to that level and they start to put the doubt in your head.
And if you just go and do your thing, you can do it.
I love the surprise. I love like being the guy that nobody like.
I've always been counted out, been cut from. I got cut from Deco
when they first started. I got cut from States. I got like overlooked
constantly. And what made you keep coming back and not give up? What
is that? It was just a self drive. Man. It was just
like the I mean, I don't know, a deep belief in yourself,
just that that that belief and this is all self made because like is your
dad? My dad was a yeller and he was like, you know,
he didn't know the sport. Yeah, my mom didn't know the sport.
They just they just knew I was a great athlete. They were like,
whether he's a baseball player or a basket obviously not basketball wasn't tall enough,
but baseball I was really good at and and soccer. So even till this
day, I joke with my parents, I'm like, do you even know
like what off sides is? Do you even know what position I truly play?
And they would be like trying to spit it out to me. I'm
like, you've watched me for like twenty five years, and but that's that's
that's the way. It is the American way, but it's a great testament
to you. Yeah right, Yeah. I was just like, look,
it's like me going to your work and being like, oh, I know
you're the director of the of like your office area, or you're like the
head secretary or whatever, but like I don't know what that is. And
I ask you, and I watch you go to work like once a week,
come and watch you like do your thing, run the off, run
your appointments. And then I come back to you and I go, but
what do you really do? You know what I mean? Like the same
thing with my dad, Like I know he's a self made man, so
I'm like, it's not like I go out to him like all right,
so do you actually do the payroll yourself? Like I know all that because
it's like I guess it's just like I've been in sports and stuff so long
that I and I've traveled, I've been able. It's just funny that you
think after twenty five years that they would take like more of an interest and
even learn it, watch a YouTube video anything. Yeah, but I think
that their response was always like I just love watching you play sports, which
is quite complent, like and it is a complement. I mean, my
parents sacrificed everything for me, you know, like they might not have been
there always, but they were always willing to like get me the new cleats,
always willing to drive me to practice. Yeah shit, they forgot to
pick me up sometimes. But like I think that's normal. And then like
my dad and my mom would would they were divorced, my dad got remarried
and they would drive up from the Philly area up to New York when you
were when you were, I was playing for five years, they came up
to every single game together. Ex. Stepmom in the car, my dad
wow them. Yeah, they would sacrifice everything to come out to play.
Okay, So it was pretty cool. I mean I look back on it
now and I'm like, man, like, it's always great. My mom's
just she's very She's an unbelievable woman. Jeff Park giving you some advice there.
You gotta really have that drive to be successful, right, a train
on his own. Imagine that, no coach just doing it on your own.
That's drive and a belief that he knew he could make it, so
he's gonna do everything he could to get there. That's the edge we're talking
about for twenty twenty four. Coming up next, a couple who have had
a very successful law firm for twenty years. What makes them tick, what
do they talk to their kids about, and what does it mean to really
listen? Find out? Right after this Iron Smoke Distillery in Fairport, New
York. Come say goodbye to twenty twenty three this weekend because they got some
great things happening over there on Friday and Saturday night. And of course you
can have some of the Iron Smoke distilled whiskies, maybe have it made into
something called a peacemaker. It's my favorite drink over an Iron Smoke Distillery when
you're in there at tonight and enjoy a peacemaker while listening to croon tunes by
Rich Green that begins at five and goes to eight part of the Acoustic Sunset
series, and then it's six oh six Foo Fighter tribute band playing all your
favorite foo Fighter songs begin at eight thirty Tomorrow night. The Acoustic Sunset sessions
begin at three thirty with Ethos, they go to six thirty, and then
at eight thirty it's a big old eighties dance party with something else, all
happening at Iron Smoke the final days of twenty twenty three, come say goodbye
with one of the hottest spots and coolest places in all of Rochester, Iron
Smoke Distillery in Fairport, New York. Baby Back of All Trades, the
name says it all five eight five two oh two ninety two eighteen Mack of
all Trades, Dot Neck Comedy at the Carlson's Got the laughter you need And
this Friday and Saturday night Ed Bassmaster comes to stage. It's actually Edwin Rodriguez.
He has a YouTube channel. He actually had a reality prank series I
believe that was on CMT and he played a bunch of different characters. The
guy is super talented and super super funny Ed bass Maaster, and I think
the prank series is the Ed bass Master Show aka Edwin Rodriguez. This Friday
for two shows and this Saturday for two shows, the twenty ninth and thirtieth
of December. And you were gonna laugh your keistro off right into twenty twenty
four. You'll be retelling some of the jokes you hear Ed tell youa on
stage. You're gonna be telling that into twenty twenty four, which is laughter.
And you want to carry that forward with you, and you'll find it
at comedy at the Carlson Lock your tickets down at Carlsoncomedy dot com. Thanks
for wrapping up twenty twenty three with BILLI fine. This next couple, the
Sycuse, have had a very successful law firm for twenty years. Steve practices
defense law and merely matrimonial law. But together they're a dynamic duo. You're
gonna hear them say something that is very important for everybody, and I think
is often overlooked. It's the CircUse umbilified. So we really don't but I
will say the first month that Steve joined me, we both had the same
primary care physician. We both saw the primary care physician for what we thought
were heart attacks. We thought we were dying from the stress of just learning
to work together, but we quickly learned I handle all the finances, He
handles all the other issues, takes care of all the staff because I like
to be the good guy and he doesn't mind being the bad guy. Same
thing with our kid bearing. By the way, Yeah, well I mean
good cup backup right, But I mean because I would argue that one of
the most important decisions you'll ever make in your life, who is going to
be your life partner? And sometimes in these high st dress jobs that people
can't relate to, I mean, you know, ship falls apart. It
certainly does. And I will say we've learned to argue very effectively. It's
real quick. Steve Cross examines me. I go down. Well, I
was gonna say, because is there ever a time if you're even mad,
let's say something. You know, obviously, marriage, kids, just the
stresses of life, all that stuff that somebody decides to work from home and
someone will work from the office just so I don't have to look at you
today. Kind of thing that does happen. I would think that sometimes,
yeah, and merely likes to spend a little time down to Florida when I'm
not there, so she gets her time away from me. Then I do
try to run away sometimes. Well, I think that sometimes that's almost a
healthy thing when you're in absolutely right. Oh my gosh. During COVID,
when Steve had to come home from work and I was able to stay in
Florida, it was marriage saving quite frankly. So, now having no like
experience in law at AWE, it looks like it requires an unbelievable attention to
detail does. And I would think a very important skill that many people lack
would be the skill to listen. I think I think listening is actually a
skill to actually here because there's so much in terms of and maybe more than
that is inferential language, understanding what that is in body language and that sort
of thing, and then to think on your feet and a love of preparation.
Yeah, listening. I saw something not too long ago, maybe a
couple of years ago, and people want to listen to respond yes, And
that's that's not what listening should be listening because you want to hear yes and
then then and then and then you can respond. But listening just to respond
your position isn't really listening. It's just waiting for that person to take a
breath and then you're gonna tell him what what you think as opposed to listening
and want to hear. But what we do A very fine judge, Judge
Sarahgusa, I was a very young DA pulled me into his office and we
were having a conversation about life. I was a young proscer, didn't know
anything, and he said, Steve, you know the formula for success as
I said, no, you're on it, and he goes to be a
lawyer, and you could probably use this in just about any other profession.
Eighty five percent of what you should do is preparation and the remaining fifteen percent
is going to be your presentation. So eighty five percent preparation, fifteen percent
presentation. And that's a formula that how much is that having? And both
of you, I would ask, is having a big personality helped you both?
Oh, my gosh. For litigation, it's essential. And for sales,
because we really are in the business of sales, so it is absoluencely,
almost like a charm, right, And I don't even mean that like
you well, I don't mean it like that, because it almost sounds like
then and when you say things like sales, all of a sudden, everybody
gets the slick person in mind. And that's not what I'm saying. It's
having talked to you quite a bit in recent months, one of the things
is always that you want to be somebody people want to be around. Isn't
that what something that he seems to say? And I think that there is
really that ability and that when you walk into a courtroom and it's strangers who
are potentially, if something goes to trial, are going to be making a
decision. Well, that's a lot of pressure to try to get them to
see things from your perspective. That's correct. I mean, like you said,
people want to be around people that are outgoing. Yeah, you know,
smart, energetic, positive, positive. I mean, look what we
do. We can't guarantee outcomes. We don't know. In fact, I
tell people, you might pay me all this money and lose everything. I
don't know. I'm not the judge, I'm not the jury, and I
can't make the DA do what you want them to do. So you just
have to manage expectations. But your personality is what for us. We can
at times have big personalities, you know, we try to temper it when
it's appropriate, but most of the time it is what it is. Merrily,
you seem to have almost like a traditional path right to becoming a lawyer.
I would say, what, grad school and then undergraduate and then graduate
school or law school. Well, so I started in La thinking I was
going to be an oscar winning actress and live there during the Rodney King riots
and early nineties. Really quick, Yeah, came running home to Rochester.
Wow, And was going to continue in New York City and my father said,
you have to finish your undergraduate degree. So I went to Nazareth finished.
Where did you start? I started at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts
in Los Angeles, actually in Pasadena, and then ended up coming back finishing
at Nazareth. And then I met Steve So I was just wait, so
you wanted to be an actress first? Yeah, so that's why I like
litigations. Yea. Love being in the courtroom and entertaining. So wow,
so what And it was just those odd circumstances that changed your idea of and
not want to stay out. I mean, LA has been I interviewed in
La. La was one of these places that I was like, I don't
know, man, I don't think I could bring my whole family out here.
At the time I was married, I had three kids, Like,
and they're saying to me, well, we'll pay you this, and I
go, it's not that much more than I'm making in Rochester. Well,
you could also go and host a game show or you know, you do
stand up and stuff. I go, yeah, there's no guarantee. You
know what I'm saying, I mean it is a competitive it's a weird space
out there, well, and everyone is there just to make something themselves.
I did not find that you really could make really good friends like you kund
on the East Coast. Well, there's no authenticity, correct as I mean,
that's that's a big thing. And you you guys are very like real
people that I I could see that where that wouldn't really it was not for
me at the end of the day. But I did love it. I
mean I had a great experience. So when you went to NAS, what
was the undergrad because they have a big theater program or I think now maybe
more so than I don't. I don't know they did. Actually I have
five majors and I still graduated in time, but I was theater, social
work, went back to theater and then business administration. Holy jeez, social
work a little bit man, that's driven. Like what? So then what
attracts you to law school? Because you know, I have talked to you
your husband and your son, and they have both said that first year it's
almost like learning a new language, right, It's intense. There's a lot
there. What you really got to be somebody who's committed once you're going to
go to law school and also have this desire to want to help people because
most of the people you're going to work with, you're seeing them at their
lowest moment. Perticularly I do, absolutely, yeah, I mean see people
their saddest moment, the hardest movement. But for me, I took a
business law class my senior year of undergraduate okay, and it was an adjunct
professor, and I don't recall his name, but he was phenomenal, and
all of a sudden, I decided I'd go to law school. So that
was really a one professor that I realized this is what I want to do
the rest of my life. It is interesting when you find that one person
that kind of teaches you. What was it for you though? I mean,
you went to Arizona State, I go, I know what's on your
mind is having fun getting away from home as far as possible. Yet honestly,
my path to law school was started in my senior year September of eighty
eight, and I was graduating from Albany in the following May with a political
science economics degree. And a friend of mine who was a female, just
a friend from Rochester. We've known each other for a couple of years.
Said what are you doing next year? And I said, I'm just gonna
graduate. I have no idea what I'm doing next year. She goes,
well, I'm going to go to law school. And I'm like, well,
what's law school? She goes, it's three more years of this.
It's two o'clock in a bar. I'm like, I think I could do
this for three more years. And that's how I got then. I but
it's not even like nothing. It was nothing nothing. Nothing could have been
farther from what my thoughts were. So that particular week, it was like
a Friday. The next week there was an el SAT exam. I went
and bought a book, but I had to work during college, so I
was delivering pizzas. I lived at the book one Thursday night, two days
before the exam, for about seven minutes, and I'm like, eh,
we'll just figure it out on Saturday. I want it did pretty well and
it was accept to the law school. And went to law school not having
any idea what a lawyer did. Non zero. He actually did not know
what a plaintiff and defendant were. Yeah, I didn't know anything. Mean
these guys then I went to law school with the men and women. Their
fathers and mothers were judges, lawyers and business. That wasn't I had a
great family, but none of our lawyers. And I literally had migraines for
about a year trying to figure out what was being what what I was?
So what is it in you? Then that says I'm not giving up?
Yeah? Do you know what I'm saying? If you're if you're finding migraine
for a year, and I know that because there is that. Everybody has
that moment, no matter what it is, you quit. The greatest stories
are built on the I didn't quit, right, I mean, that's what
the greatest stories are. But but I'm hearing she had an idea of what
she was going to do. She had a professor, and she went,
this is what I want to do. So there's a drive and somewhat of
a knowledge, right, and knows what she's getting into. You step in,
belind Off the cliff. That's why you're fuck. I'm sorry I should
say this way. I fucking love that. Yeah, I love that.
I literally most of my friends will tell you there's nobody more competitive than me.
Okay, I mean, we don't play backgammon anymore because merely taught me
and beat me like eighty five straight times the last time and the last time
we played, I took the board and shut the board. I threw it
across the room. So we don't play back in or very competitive. Yeah,
I was also in debt about twenty two thousand dollars at age twenty.
After my first year, said I'm going to give it another semester. I
went back to school. Professor art Levels, I'll never forget him, was
a mentor to me. I was in the toughest class in law school,
which is called evidence, and I was struggling. I went to see him
and he said, Steve, are you studying? Professor? I studied six
eight hours a night, and he said, well, just keep at it,
and eventually, in this very short period of time, it's going to
be a light switch. What do you mean. The light switch is going
to go on and you're going to understand how to be a lawyer. And
three weeks later I was studying evidence. The light switch went on and law
school was a cakewalk. After that. First year of law school is just
a crazy and tense period. But eventually the light does go on and We've
told our son that, and we're going to tell our youngest that who's heading
off to school too. Yeah, it's a tough it's a grind. Yeah,
how was the first year, Stephen? My light has been out for
the year. I haven't found it yet, so I'm still working on that.
It's true, you don't look like it like it doesn't look like you
were overwhelmed by it. I wouldn't overwhelmed. That's definitely a change in time
management and actually having to sit down and read an amount that you can't read
in a night, learn how to skim efficiently and learn how to answer a
question when your name's called without knowing it's coming. Yeah, so a lot
on your feet. You'll learn to cover it up that you just smile through
it and keep going. That does sound tough, but I mean, I
got to think there's even cases, especially for you, in these criminal defense
cases, that at times where it's got to be like, I don't know
where to go with this, And yet is it that competitiveness that keeps you
the drive and also the idea of protecting someone's rights at the very base of
it all. I would think that's very important. In fact, in the
last couple of weeks had a couple of cases that some people that are friends
or acquaintances will ask about what it's like to be a lawyer. And I
was just out not too long ago, and there was some people in the
courthouse and I have a rather controversial case, and they said, I can't
believe Steve you do that. You were a prosecutor for twelve years and now
you're representing this per who's charged with a heinous crime. And I let them
go on, and I say, well, I am the buffer between an
overreaching government and one of its citizens. So you may not like what the
allegations are in a case, but if it wasn't for people like me,
the government would run rough shot over everybody, and it would not just be
the person in this particular case who's charged with what are heinous allegations, but
it could be an everyday citizen who maybe made a bad mistake or poor decision,
but nothing that should be bullied by an overreaching government. So that's the
that's what I do. Well, this is where you're right, because you
think about anybody who's going through anything, even matrimonial and child custody situations.
Like I said, earlier, it's your lowest. But all of that is
so emotional and overwhelming, and our emotions and are thinking sometimes are effected.
They become effected they should if you can separate them. There may be a
clinical diagnosis for you and they may have a room somewhere for you. But
that's sort of what you kind of need to do at times in life to
be able to step back and see something for what it is. Right,
great words to say, super hard to do, super hard to do,
but when you so now take that and if you go into a court of
law, you're scared you're not hearing what's being said exactly as it's being said.
There's Latin terms that you're not going to understand fully, there's language that's
not there. So that's where I always think, like, you want to
go to somebody that has dedicated their life to this and it is and I
know because I understand that, I'm sure you you know, people say heinous,
but it's not. It's about making sure that we're protecting the rights of
somebody as they were laid forth and we don't have an overreaching for exactly that
because you know, give an inch, take a mile kind of thing.
And it does go beyond whatever this heinous act is. It could be something
else. When's the last time the government didn't try to take more than Yeah,
sure, that's absolutely. We see things like evident domain happen all the
time with stuff, and I mean there's all all kinds of cases. The
fact years ago there was a draft. Can you imagine today, No,
that the government comes in there can take one of your sons or one of
my or my son or something. We're gonna put them in a rice field
twenty two hours away. Yeah, are you out of your mind? No?
Thank you? No, yeah, no, thank you, thank you.
You have three kids? What do you teach them about not giving up
on something? I mean, you say, your your competitiveness, but sometimes
you know flipping back ammon boards and I used to do that with Candy linb
Is it something that you want them to be to be doing? You know
what I'm saying. Well, I was a little kid. My dad used
to always teach me. It would tease me. So you would get like
cherry pitts or whatever, and you go and I'd have to go back and
I used to I was like five of it. That's import I think this
one to our left has done that a few times. Stephen and Steve have
that fiery person. Yeah, things will fly, but you know, I
think it's very important that they have drive. Yeah, so Steve and I
never ever ever told them they had to have straight a's or whatever grade.
We told them to do the best for themselves, whatever that is. If
you're an A student, be an A student. If you're a C student,
be a C student. But if you're an A student, don't be
a C student. And they've actually all excelled one hundred percent based on that
on their own. I mean, Steven has a scholarship at you Be,
and he still really tries hard to get the best grades he possibly can,
even though he's joining our firm, And all we said is you have to
pass, but they just don't do that. So what do you do to
get away from it all? Because I've I remember, like early on a
pediatrician saying to me, hey, you should go to therapy because one of
the boys was sort of on the spectrum and there was a lot of therapy
in different diet and he's like, you can't be good for anybody else if
you're not best with yourself. So here you guys are hearing some really tough
things from people and what they're dealing with. What do you do to get
away from it all? So I think self care is so important, and
actually it's so important to not get you into the position of having to come
c Steve or I because I think a self care is so important. I
mean, if you're not happy, nobody around you is happy, right right,
so, and that's something you have to figure out. But I think
that comes with age. I sadly think young people just run themselves into the
ground. They give, they give, they give, they care too much
about youth is wasted down to the young. Certainly is so for us.
I know for Steve and I, exercise is crucial for our mental and physical
health, and that is we have to both do that every single day.
But other than that, downtime, I mean, I really try hard when
I travel to decompress, turn off my phone the best I can, and
spend time with my friends and family. But also I do like to shop
for purses and shoes, but those are my downtime things. Now, there's
some sound advice for twenty twenty four from Merely Circu of Circu and Circu self
care something we often overlook and it's often seen even by ourselves as being selfish.
You need to be a little more selfish in twenty twenty four to make
yourself better and have a better year than ever. Doctor Robert Rice is the
head of the psychology department at Saint John Fisher University. He's got some insight
to help you deal with life because it never stops coming at you. We'll
get into that next, but first, Full Send Skiing out Door in Canadaigua
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that could be seven o'clock. I don't know. You got to get
there and get that Prime Rib dinner. And if you're looking for a job
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rib dinner the last Saturday I've every month. Oh whatever it works for you.
Fifty TVs not a bad spot to see the game. And of course
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They're going to exchange a gift they got the wrong size. It's just misery.
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Victor Chrysler Dodge gep Ram Route ninety six in Victor and online at victorcdjr
dot com. One thing that's for sure is life never stops coming at you.
So as you head into twenty twenty four, what can you do to
kind of handle that. You can't stop it, you can handle your reaction,
and Doctor Robert Wright, head of the psychology department at Saint John Fisher
University, has some insights to help us all in twenty twenty four. Did
you ever work with adults in terms for psychotherapy in Anyway, as part of
my doctoral internship, I did some work with adults. I spent an entire
internship with adults with traumatic brain injury. Okay, so you were more specified
in your field. Where did the PhD come from? You of R?
Okay? So are you a Rochester guy? I am? So you grew
up here. I went to McQuaid, okay, and then I went to
the U of R for bachelor's, master's and PhD. So I was at
the un from two thousand or time, sorry, nineteen ninety four to two
thousand and nine. Wow. Yeah, it's like a twenty year run.
It was a while. Yeah, all on loans. I just got my
I was just gonna say, boy, they got a nice chunk of change
out of you. Thank god for the Public Service Loan forgiveness plan. But
what a great institution, right, I mean, it's unbelievable you of R.
Really, And I think sometimes because of where we are geographically, doesn't
that necessarily get the love it should in terms of nashally. But maybe I'm
wrong. I don't know. Actually I think that it might be. It
might almost be the apposite. Then, Really, I think people outside of
here I really appreciate it more than we do here, okay, because of
the level of the research and the level of the education there. And yeah,
I loved it. I was an a fraternity. I had a bunch
of fun. I made all the mistakes and then you know, turned it
around and did what I had to do the junior and senior year so that
I could you get where I am. Yeah, well that's great. So
here was my my theory. I said to you that I had a theory.
I sometimes and I've done, uh talk therapy myself, and sometimes when
I look at things and maybe I'm wrong and maybe I didn't use it necessarily
correctly. I did have one gentleman I really liked and all. But I
sometimes feel like when we talk about whatever the problem is, we say stuck
in the problem and not necessarily the solution, and that sometimes these therapy sessions
become bitch sessions, right, so we're talking about you know this, that
and the other thing instead of applying some kind of thing. And that's where
I found, like your book, I go, well, yeah, this
is interesting. You took a kid just as an example and applied the video
game music theme because that was really where his interests lied and we're able to
get him to I mean, you saved his parents. They should give you
what they're saving in the water bill, you know what I mean, the
kid who took the shower. So I'm like, that kind of stuff happens.
But a lot of times, I think for adults, every day adults,
we got a lot of stressors. There's a lot of this stuff that
I think that we wind up almost bitching in these and not necessarily using it.
And I go, boy, I don't know how therapists who do this
day after day after day can hear over and over. It's almost got to
become like Charlie Brown's parents at some point. Woh whah, whah, here
we go again. Yeah, yeah, well, and I wouldn't be good
at that. It's not the type of therapy I do. I do what's
called narrative therapy. And that's really you know the you know, that's there's
so many different approaches to psychotherapy, right, and so you know, it's
not all one thing. You know, some people have more of a problem
based approach, which means, you know, they're interested in, you know,
what what caused the problem? You know, how can we resolve the
problem? Right, which is you know, insurance companies really like that,
sure, and and then there's other well you forget that there is a business
model to this too, that's the other side. I mean, I just
popped in my head as you said it now, which is unfortunate and a
little bit. I mean, look, yeah it is. And so you
know, Pete, there's workarounds and things like that, and you write down
what you have to write down for the insurance companies, and yes, you
do what you have to do for the person. But but again the answer
to your question is there's different approaches to psychotherapy. I'm I do what's called
narrative narrative therapy or collaborative therapy, and so I'm not interested in, uh,
what caused the problem. We actually don't even talk about the problem all
that much in my sessions. We're more interested in what's it going to look
like when it's better? Right? You know that magic? I think that's
the greatest answer. And then what's getting in the way? You know,
that's the closest we get to talking about the problem is is you know what's
getting in the way? What's your resistance? A problem is a constraint,
right, it's a it's a and uh, you know, we typically would
then externalize that problem, right. We want the person to see that as
something that's not part of themselves, but something that they can deal with and
and other people around them can unite with them to deal with. And then
you know, really it's it's about achieving this too will pass type attitude,
right. Yeah. Yeah. I have a friend who says that all the
time, and it's it's their mom has always said to them, this too
shall pass. And even if it's going to pass like a kidney stone,
this too show passed, right, it will. Yeah. Emotions are like
stubbing your toe, you know nothing, You can't think about anything else in
that moment. It hurts like hell, but ye, you know, five
minutes later it's gone. And emotions are essentially the same way. And I've
had a chance to do some really amazing work with an Indian healer, doctor
deep from from India over the past year. I met him at a Harvard
conference last summer, and he asked me when he came to visit Saint John
Fisher in November, what's one thing you can say to me that would make
me happy when I'm sad or sad when I'm happy. And actually at the
time, we were meeting with some of my mentors and we all took a
guess at what that could be, and we were all wrong. He said,
he said, this too will pass, right if if if I'm happy,
and I think to myself, this pass if I'm sad, and uh,
and so yeah, I think it's more, you know, in my
opinion and in other people who practice the type of therapy that I practice,
it's more about achieving an attitude towards life and an attitude towards you know,
how to to go through life and achieve your goals, as opposed to you
know, how can I solve all these problems? And why am I?
Why is? Why is my life the way it is? Okay? So,
as you're saying this, I always I have three sons and there's always
something happened. They were grown up by J Crew. The J Crew.
I used to always joke that it was like living in a frat house because
someone was always walking around without a shirt on. Someone was probably throwing up,
and someone was breaking something. You right, it was the time.
And I say to my sons who are older now. My older ones are
twenty two and twenty one, and I'll in particular the twenty one year old
and I'll always say, uh, sort of along those lines. Life is
never gonna stop coming at you. Let it happen. But what you have
to do is get yourself so you just feel good all the time. So
even when you're doing it and I and that's what I kept thinking, like,
as you're doing the music with the kid in the shower, the problem
is that he's in there forever. And like I said, there can be
I mean, long showers are wonderful, but if you're not fully tiled and
you've got drywall in there and stuff, you're gonna have some problems after a
while, you know what I mean, especially problems. Yeah, no proper
ventilation. I mean, like it's not industrial ventilation. You go to a
gym that yeah, you could be in there for an hour and no no
real damage. But you do it at home and it starts to You'll see,
if you have wallpaper and there, it'll start peeling and you'll get them
hold up in the corners and it starts to crack. So now you've got
this kid, though, who you're making it better because you've turned it into
something that he can relate to and be a game. Well what changed and
the parents aren't coming at him anymore. They got the goal they wanted.
It's the same thing I think for adults in life. Life's going to keep
coming at you. It's kind of how you react to it. And I
think most life has lived in our head for sure. Yeah. Actually,
that same kid he had a job at. I saw this a convent,
right, a convent which Wegmans runs. Okay, I didn't which I didn't
realize there was such a thing, But there's this Wegman's run convent supposedly,
And you know, he worked in the cafeteria picking up plates after the nuns,
and he hated it because every time he'd go and you pick up a
plate, you'd bring it back to the washer and then more nuns would come
in and they'd fill it up again, and it just felt tedious and un
fulfilling because he never felt you know, it was just you know, it's
the opposite of mowing your lawn. Right as you mow your lawn, the
lawn grows, you know, behind you immediately, and uh. And so
he decided he was going to turn that into a game of pac Man,
and the nuns were gonna be ghosts and the plates were gonna be pellets.
Uh, and that he had. We came up with all these rules where
you know, if he touched a nune, then you know, he had
to go back to the start and uh, you know if he got there
were certain types of plates that that gave him special powers where he could go
and he could you know, chat with the nuns during that time and he
could and then so and you know, ever since that point, he uh
you know, became playing employee of the month, felt great about himself,
and really it was just a different way of looking at things in his mind.
As you were saying, well, I think like you go to a
party and uh, you know, you could go in there and leave and
go, man, that was a wild party. Man. People were swimming
naked in the pool and all this, and I could be at the same
part and go, man, that sucked. And these people were idiots,
they were drunk, they were obnoxious. This one was jumping in the pool.
Guts close up right. It's the same thing. Two different perspectives.
And I think a lot of times we live up in our head. And
also, you know, to your idea with with the Indian healer of this
two sholl pass and this two show pass. I've often said, and I
don't like this thought, but it's sort of real. Things are never as
good as you think they are, and they're never as bad as you think
they are. They're somewhere in the middle, and it's like a Bill season.
Yeah man, yeah, right, exactly so, and that's where I
you know, And so I sometimes think with the talk therapy, was you
felt like you just kept repeating the problem. And when your mind is stuck
in the problem and you're talking about it over and over and over again,
you don't get out of it necessarily. Where if I like the idea of
applying something to where you you know what I'm saying, like you think this
way or change the thought, or could you look at it from this perspective
and will that be a little bit better? Or Okay, that's not going
well? What is going well? You know, because if you have four
things going well and one thing that isn't going very well, and you focus
on what's not going well. I'm a big believer in energy and stuff,
everything starts to fall to shit. But if you focus on everything that's going
well over here, somehow that too comes along because you just you have a
different approach. It's almost like an athlete being in the zone, right,
an athlete in the zone, you know. I mean, there was a
great There was a game last night, I think it was It was Houston
and I don't know who they were playing, and they were Houston was down.
I think it was six to three. There were twice, or at
least once in this long apt bat where I think there was bases loaded,
two outs, full count. The guy hits the ball, it goes back
into the catcher's glove. He squeezes too hard and the ball pops out.
What have been an out, would have been an out. It's not next
pitch, grand slam. They win the game. Amazing, right, So
you're in that zone, right, everybody wants to be that guy. Where
all that guy in our backyard. But that guy has to be on cloud
nine today, right, But had he gotten out and that same at bat,
he wouldn't probably be. You got to go to try to be on
cloud nine as much as you can because everything will start going well. It's
just my theory on things. It's not a theory, it's that's backed up
by research. So again I'm gonna encourage you to maybe consider becoming a therapist
because you're doing a great job. They don't want to do that. I
wouldn't mind doing. Get the skills and then yes, you can therapize people.
Well, you know what, Honestly, I wouldn't mind that. I've
often thought, here's the thing, like, I, okay, here,
here's a great one, uh to talk about this stuck of the problem,
and it just popped into my head when you're talking about this. I always
wanted to be on the radio as a kid. I bought FM wireless microphones.
But none of my friends were into this, so I kept it secret,
like I didn't tell any of my buddies. But I would broadcast my
brother and sister. I would tape commercials off the radio. I had two
microphones, so I had one I play music, and I would do all
this stuff, and then I'd run upstairs, go do you hear me?
Jeer me on the radio? Well, and then I get on the radio
and I'm nineteen and I'm doing overnights And I was supposed to do it just
for the summer. It was in between my junior and senior year at Fisher,
and I wound up taking the year off and staying on overnights midnight to
six on this FM station. And I realized quickly that I got bored.
I got really bored doing just the music, like after a while, so
I started doing things like who's up in why at three o'clock in the morning.
And I would take calls. And there was always this one guy and
he would call all the time for almost six months straight about how his girlfriend
broke up with him, he can't sleep and blah blah blah and all this
stuff. And I remember thinking, like, how do you help this guy?
And how do I make it interesting? Because it was the same thing
almost night after night after night, And I remember once it was awful,
but I was nineteen and thought it was funny. I played Everybody's hurt because
you would tape the phone calls and then playing back, So I played everybody
hurts underneath them yep, and then so that's playing, and then right in
the middle of the conversation, a gunshot and then a dial tone. You're
kidding me, Well, he didn't do it. I did it, so
I was I can't be a therapist, so but no, he was fine.
Well he never called again after that. Really, I don't think.
But in that idea of there was always a piece of me, like I
hate to admit this, but I've been told by many people I am very
sensitive, you know what I mean? I am. I did is it?
I did for years because I think it was always like okay, but
here we go. Here comes really deep psycho psychological stuff that I've realized about
myself over the years. Low self esteem. All my life, low self
esteem. I felt like I was always in trouble, and probably for a
good reason, but I was always kind of on the edge. And I
think that I was always under suspicion, even for shit that I didn't do.
But and that was like as a kid grown up school was okay,
hey, I didn't you know, I didn't do badly. I just I
mean, if I showed up, I was probably gonna get an eighty five.
Right. That was about about my thing without doing much work. I
don't think I ever did homework. I didn't really do anything throughout high school
and stuff. And then I get to uh, I was going to go
to college, and the only thing I really had were some decent SAT scores
because then some of my grades had kind of fallen off and this and that,
and so my old man's like, look, you get one shot on
my dime. Well, everywhere I applied to I got in, but I
got in under the aust the idea that you would take a summer class to
prove that you could handle college level work. My father's like, you are
going to drink your way out. So there was always that theory, right,
you had that in your head of you. So what I was and
then as a child, and I've talked about this a lot on the radio
over the years and stuff too, I was molested and that was I didn't
realize how much that really kind of man, I can fuck you up in
many many ways. Absolutely, And so what I found was people used to
stay me on something. You go into TV, TV TV, and I
thought TV would be cool, But I was like one, I was self
conscious about my looks and I was also I didn't like the idea that people
could actually see me, and I liked in radio that I didn't at least
when I began. I could be anybody I wanted to be. I could
be the coolest guy in the world. I could say shit that I probably
wouldn't say in person. I could do that kind of thing, so it
was almost like you were able to hide, you could put on your superhero
costume. Reason why people become furries? Yes, yes, yeah, I
know, which sounds so weird, right, That's a great analogy because we
all look at those people go what the fuck did you? I mean,
I think there was a guy recently that spent fourteen thousand dollars to have a
complete costume, so he looks like Lassie. I'm sure, I'm sure.
And I was on the New York Post. Just came from my daughter's hockey
team was in the National championship game in California, and we were coming back
from California and someone came through security with their full furry costom. They didn't
make them take his head off. He came through security with his head and
I sure you not. It was real. I got a picture with the
airport. That's funny. Yeah, that's very funny. Not a mascot.
This, this is a fullhead. Yeah, no, this is this guy,
this is this is this is what he did. He identified as a
wolf. Okay, yeah, all right, yeah whatever. I mean.
The other thing is like whatever gets you through the day. Yeah, yeah,
you know, I mean that well, yeah, I mean to get
back to what you were saying before. You know, that was before I
forget. You really can't train yourself to think this way, right, I
yes, for you know, fifteen years now, I've been doing three gratitudes
a day, right, three things that I'm grateful for. And then when
I first started, it was really hard, and it's all just simple stuff.
You know, pants, I don't need to iron, you know,
clean water, yes, whatever. Yes, you know, when you're doing
it, you're scanning your environment for things you're grateful for. And if you
do that, I mean you do that for you know, a month straight,
and I promise you that you will start scanning your environment for things that
you're grateful for when you're not even trying. Yes, right, it's almost
like, uh, what's the thing that they'll do some of these conferences and
things, you know, looking around the room and find everything that's green,
right, grounding yourself or imagine everything, and then and then they have you
close your eyes and now find everything that's brown. Well you can't, you
know, you're finding everything that's green. Or you buy a car of a
certain color and now you see every car that color. These there more cars
that color. No, there's actually there's a video game for depression that I
prescribe to my clients with depression where it's a grid. It's called Psych Me
Up. And it's a grid that has like twelve faces on it and they're
all making different facial expressions and there's one smiling face and you've got to find
the smiling face and touch it. And you go through you know, a
series of like you know, ten of these grids, and the goals to
get as fast as you can at finding the smiling face and touching it.
And the clients whoy I prescribe this to who actually do it come back and
say that they're you know, they they're noticing themselves, you know, seeing
things in the YEA, Yeah, that's really interesting because it is it's it's
pretty much in our head. And that was the thing with radio for me.
And then as I got older and I you know, around more people
who were authentic, and I would even say, you know, Weize in
particular was very authentic that you went, well, that's the way you want
to be. You want to be just who you are, and it it'll
work and it somehow, I mean that that's kind of how I fell into
that and now now here we are with cameras and all the shit that I
was avoiding anyway, So it doesn't I think that a lot of that stuff
goes in your head. But that was how I, uh, the radio
thing was for me. It was more to hide and I liked being somebody
I wasn't. I felt more comfortable trying to not I didn't like me and
like being me. And that happened between the time of two and four years
old is when is when most of that happened, and when most of you
know that, you know, lack of self confidence in those things, really,
and that's when you're developing your template for human interactions, your your you
know your way of dealing with the world, and you know all of our
parents do their best. Yes, no, And I agree with that too,
because you could go back and I'm sure the whole idea of your mother
and your mother, but they are the voices in your head. I think
that I've read a book once that said men should act as though their father
were dead and not to be mean and saying. But there's a lot of
things. That's the leading figure in your life, probably the person who would
approve or disapprove most of what you do, and so therefore, what would
you do if he weren't around? Would you be freer to do this?
Would you be free to do that? And I can say there were certain
things that certainly now my dad was never a huge fan of this stuff.
But I also had a big I don't fucking care attitude too, and I'm
just gonna go do it. So there was that. But I think when
it comes to like writing, like I've always wanted to write a book,
my dad was a brilliant He is a brilliant guy, and I think that
would often tell me I didn't have a command of the English language. And
then I had three clunkers in a row in my elementary school and I never
learned how to really structure him. My ideas were good, but I couldn't
write. I never wrote. That was it. And I remember that I
wound up up. You had to take an English placement test in college,
and I'm like, I'll never fucking do this. I don't think I finished
the test. I was like, it is a matter. So I wind
up in the like this ridiculously whatever class and they had you write something and
this woman pulls me aside and goes, honey, you don't belong here.
And I said, what do you mean? She goes, well, first
of all, I want you to read what you wrote in front of the
class. She goes, it's so great and rich and it paints a picture.
And she goes and then we're gonna move you out of here. And
I was like, okay, so you know what I'm saying, But all
that that whole idea of you're an idiot, you can you know? And
I feel bad because I don't think that was what he was trying to say.
Yeah, I think it was let me help you. And what I
heard was you suck. Do you know what I'm saying? I hear it.
I had a great example of a client I just saw a couple of
weeks ago. We were walking through the hallways my head. So I have
a private practice, mind Fit Mental Health in East Rochester. We do a
lot of integrating games and therapy, and I was walking a client up in
down the hall and this particular client obsesses over whether or not he's doing things
right, constantly making the right decision. Now I'm making the right like almost
every thought is you know, followed by is that the right thought to have
right. And I've been seeing him for several months and We're walking down the
hall and all of a sudden, I asked him, what do you think
was different when you were you know, when you were younger. I forget
what question I asked him, but he like stopped in his tracks and said,
because I have autism, everyone's been telling me what I Everyone's been looking
over my shoulder my whole life, and I never know if I'm doing things
the right way. Yeah, right, And it was just starts a second
guess yourself on everything. It was this like aha moment where, of course,
like this, this is this guy at this point, he's twenty three
years old, I think, and he's spent an entire life of people looking
over his shoulder making it well meaning right. They want to make sure and
they want to make sure that he's you know, fitting in, but it
has you know, all the guidance that they're giving him is you're doing this
wrong, You got to do it this way, You're not good at this
very glad. I met doctor Robert Rice, the head of the psychology department
at Saint John Fisher University, in twenty twenty three because he introduced me to
knotty water. That's right, Go back and look for the doctor Robert Rice
one on one we did in the Bilified Archives, episode one seventy five.
One more professional Athlete talks about doing things even when we don't want to.
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SPA dot com. Jimmy Z's Plates and Shakes celebrating twenty years main Street,
Brockport Platesinshakes dot com. What does it take to be a professional athlete?
A lot of sacrifice. We learned that from former New Jersey Devil and Stanley
Cup winner Brian Gionta. Is also played for the Montreal Canadians, Buffalo Sabers,
Boston Bruins and Team USA. What did hockey teach you when you look
at even life now you know it takes a lot to get to the level
and stay at the level that you played for so long. I mean,
what were you the first American captain of Montreal Canadians. I mean that what
an honor, that is, right, and that really speaks to you.
But boy, it takes a lot to get there. What do you carry
forward in life? I mean, and that's part of the reason I'm doing
what I'm doing now, right, Like you sacrifice so much along the way
from the time you're thirteen, fourteen, fifteen years old, you miss out
on everything and you've made the decision to sacrifice those things and make a go
at a career and the longevity. I was very fortunate to do it for
so long, and I think that's a separate There's a lot of guys at
that level. They could play at that level for a day or two,
but it's maintaining it day after day, game after game, year after year.
For me, it was about the sacrifices you have to make and whether
you're okay with it. And that's ultimately also what drew me away from the
game is at the end of my career, like the kids had moved around
a ton, I had played eighteen years and I was content going out the
way I did. Even though I could have gone and played a few more
years, I could have gotten more contracts. It was just at that point,
things had changed and your priorities change and what you're willing to sacrifice.
Its hard decision, super hard. Yeah, it's never easy, like you
wrestle with it forever. And my last year coming out of the Buffalo contract,
I had contracts for one year with a few different teams, Boston being
one of them, and we went down, we looked at houses, we
were looking to move the kids, and at the end of the day I
came back and I just wasn't ready to move the kids. So we ended
up working out a way that I could still play one more season or have
one more go with a Stanley Cup, with doing the Olympics, and then
signing with Boston after the Olympics, and it worked out to be a perfect
kind of send off. It was like a semi retirement. I was practice
player for the Emericks and played the one game here in Rochester and then went
off to the Olympics, had an Olympic go at it, and then also
one more chance at a Stanley Cup with Boston. How I mean, you
had the Olympics in how long a season are we talking about for you?
Yeah? Ultimately, like I was training all along all summer and then skating
with the Emorks from September to what is that January or early January when you
go off for the Olympics. Olympics was a month and you're climb off an
NHL season into that, right, No, that was that was the one
year that they didn't they had non NHL players they could play in the Olympics,
and so that was the loopholes. I didn't have an NHL contract,
so I could play in the Olympics that year and then come back and I
had a deal in place before I left for the Olympics. Came basically dropped
bags from South Korea and then jumped in the car to had to to Boston
to start the season with Boston. It's yeah, well, so you know
when you when you look at all this and I'm hearing you, and you're
saying, you know, the sacrifice and things that that goes that way,
And I'll get back to what that is. But as a guy with a
family, you have to find somebody and and I have to be careful how
I phrased this just for my own life, but one of the most important
decisions you'll ever make is your partner and to find somebody that and I don't
know if I'm going to say this the right way or not, but sometimes
the first love is hockey. Yeah right, yeah, well, I mean
they they come in I knew, I mean in high school. Yeah,
and not that she understood that hockey. Hockey never comes first. You don't
want to put it that way, like life, life is life, and
things happened, but yes, like that's your career and you're driven, and
you're super successful for a reason because you're so driven. And there's she understood
the fact that I would be missing funerals, I would be missing weddings.
There was there was times that I mean, you're not around and and you
know, without that support of her, I would have never made eighteen years.
And then throw kids into the mix, That's what I mean. And
now it just it alplifies things even more so. You're you're missing birthdays,
you're missing holidays. Even in the summertime when it's supposedly off, you know,
you're training every day, you're skating every day, and your vacations are
no longer two week vacations. It was okay, we can take three days
here because I don't want to miss workouts. I don't want to miss skates
and it would get frustrating at times, but at the end of the day,
that's why we were able to be so stable in an unstable You metmosphere
Marrige, somebody you met in high school. Yeah, so she's been with
you since what's seventeen six yeah, fifteen sixteen, eighteen sixteen? Wow,
So this has been a journey together for sure. What up? That's awesome
And the biggest thing is that works because we allowed each other to grow together.
Like I went to my college, she went to her college, She
had her job, and then you know, at the end of the day,
she had to give up her job she was a teacher to move to
Jersey with me. So there's plenty of sacrifices that she has had to make
along the way too. Yeah. Now when it comes to like, you
know, we think of guys who played a long time at a high level,
and of course Tom Brady, maybe when that comes did you follow something
similar to that in terms of diet and sleep and yeah, yeah, everything
you do, Like it's you think of season ends. You know, maybe
if you're lucky you go into junior in the finals or you know, uh,
and then it's immediately switched on to the next season and preparing for the
next season, and it's it's six days a week of workouts and skates and
constant right, Like you go on the boat. That's one of the things.
Now as you're retired, you go on the boat, you go up
in the Adirondics for the weekend. You don't have to worry about Okay,
what am I eating? Am I doing enough to stay prepared? Am I?
How long am I away? That type of stuff? Right? So
that that's interesting to me. And now, I mean you're still in phenomenal
shape. It's just it's just your routine. Yeah, Like it's you drop
the kids off at school, go for a workout and hang out that way,
and then find something to do, whether it's golf for being the lake.
You guys, you guys were the first team that got the Cup for
a day with everybody correct. Yeah, I'm not sure what the timing was
of it, but yeah, we had the Cup for a day in New
Jersey. What do you remember the most about that? I mean all the
public stuff. We did a ton of public stuff throughout the day. I
just found my picture you yeah, yeah, my buddy at them all.
Yeah, and you try to you you know, like you don't get to
everyone. You try to make it as as inclusive as you can and get
back to the community that's given so much to you. But what you remember
is the private party after, right, like your family and friends, your
close knit people that you know you went to and you know you had a
good time with that, and they enjoyed the cup. And I'll tell it
quick story. I guess if we got time, but like so a young
it was an old three. So with Callahan and my brother both young,
they're probably I don't know, fifteen sixty, I don't know the exact time,
but they're they're young at the time, let's put it that way.
So they're thinking nothing of it. They're grabbing the cup, they're drinking out
of the cup, whatever it may be. And so there's this lore that
there's a curse, right, you touch the cup before, you're not gonna
win it. So sure enough, those two guys go on both to play
in the Stanley Cup finals, one with the Rangers, one with the Devils.
Neither of them win the Cup. And so I don't know if it's
my cup party brought both of their Cup dreams to a screeching halt or what
it was. Does he ever bring it up? I do? But then
but then my brother couple that's the problem. Now, my brother goes and
he works for Tampa Bay as a pro scout, and he's got to Stanley
cups under his belt. So now, first of all, these Stanley cups
are the size of the table we're sitting at now, and mine looks like
a high school class ring compared to his. So he makes fun of the
size of my cup ring. And then he's got two over my one.
That's that's really funny. But I rib I earned it like it wasn't a
scout. It's a scout, dude. Thrown your brothers you Joe and Brian
Stevie. Yeah, who wins in the bubble hockey tournament? Oh me all
day? I got one in my basement, so it it's easy tear the
kids up with that bubble hockey. So easily I got both of them.
Now, with your brother being a scout, is there any temptation for you
to go back and do something for a team, or even go into the
booth at some point and do some TV. Yeah? I dabbled in TV
a bit when I was playing. I had done those stints with uh the
NHL Network at the time, and I liked him. But there's a commitment
level to it, and I just I haven't been ready. I did some
part time stuff with the Amrick Sabers when I first started, and uh,
you know, Kevin Adams a good friend GM. Now he's he's offered.
You know, if I'm ready to get into it, it's just the time
commitment. I'm just not ready to give that up and sacrifice that when you
only have a few years left with the kids. Yeah, and there in
their prime. No, I got you right, you're in that that busy
time. You're oldest is eighteen, Yeah, how many do you have?
Three? Three? My youngest is eleven. Yeah, so you got eighteen,
fifteen, and eleven. But I mean in the next five years,
well that things may change. Yeah, right then, and I think that'd
be very I think he'd be great in the booth Man. Yeah, well
I thought, listen, I love PK su Ben, right, but I
thought he was gonna be great, and I thought he stunk it up in
the year. He could have been way betters. Yeah, he does like
I love and I love PK. He's a former teammate, so I can
give him crap about it, But how's the French? Is it still strong?
And no, it's it's tough. It's I've lost all of it.
But my oldest son, who had the most schooling in Montreal and we came
back to Buffalo and he's taking French in school and we have the parent teacher
conference and he's tearing it up. He's got, you know, hundreds all
across the board because it's basically bo cab and maybe a little bit of sentence
structure whatever it may be. I'm like, has he has he told you
why? Like it comes easy to him. She's like no, I'm like,
well, we lived in Montreal for five years. Like his schooling was
half in French, like he should be. He should be as in this
like vocab test. Yeah, they got to push him a bit. Yeah
that's true. Well, I mean that's that's the thing I got to think
for you. Is it hard to ever uh you ever need to back off
a little on the can And I don't know. Yeah, no, I
mean it's for sure. Your expectations have to change. And like every one
of my kids is different, you have to deal with them all different anyone
that has kids realizes, yes, yes you can't just not a blanket parenting
style. You got to change it up with all of them. But no,
but when you've achieved so much right and then they're coming along, how
hard that may be for you to go, come on, I'm seeing these
things. You can do this, but yeah, the biggest thing is going
in the pantry grabbing a stack of oreos or whatever. I'm like, oh,
you have no idea what you're doing to yourself, Like you're not setting
yourself up. But I gotta lay back on some of that stuff, Like
I gotcha, Maybe mix an oriole protein shake or something. Give it,
give it in something else. Yeah, that's fun. Hopefully you got something
that you can take into twenty twenty four to make it just a little bit
better. My thanks to Major League Soccer star Jeff Park, the Circus Steven
and Mary Lee Circu, doctor Robert Rice from Saint John Fisher University, and
former NHL superstar and Team USA member Brian Gionta, I learned something. Just
gotta keep at it, even when you don't feel like get up and go
baby forward motion always will see you in twenty twenty four. My love's California
baby. Things that got worse. He's a land up opportunity for me is
just a curse that judging make us feel