1 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,679 And we're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm at Kittle, 2 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:27,359 Senior Elections correspondent of The Federalist and your experienced Shirba on today's quest for 3 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:32,240 Knowledge. As always, you can email the show at radio at the Federalist 4 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:38,399 dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, make sure to subscribe 5 00:00:38,439 --> 00:00:42,280 wherever you download your podcast, and of course to the premium version of our 6 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,000 website as well. I'm joined today by Robert Emlow, President and CEO of 7 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:55,359 ed Choice in Indianapolis based nonprofit, nonpartisan organization committed to advancing educational freedom and 8 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,759 choice for all as a pathway to successful lives and a stronger societ. That's 9 00:01:00,799 --> 00:01:04,680 their mission statement, and I can think of no more important mission statement and 10 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:10,879 mission. In fact, they've been quite successful at what they have been able 11 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,719 to accomplish over the last many, many years the One Million Kids Campaign, 12 00:01:15,359 --> 00:01:22,719 over one million American kids and counting are now enrolled in school choice programs. 13 00:01:23,079 --> 00:01:27,480 Thank you so much for being here, Robert, and take about that's an 14 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:33,280 impressive number for sure. Well, thanks so much for having me. I 15 00:01:33,359 --> 00:01:36,879 really appreciate it. And you know, your great state of Iowa helped us 16 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,480 get over the finish line for the million and will certainly take us to the 17 00:01:40,519 --> 00:01:42,439 next manion I hope too. That's absolutely right. Yes, I'm from the 18 00:01:42,719 --> 00:01:49,920 Des Moines area. That's where I work in covering all of the election stuff 19 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,599 and what have you, from the greater Metro Des Moines area. And just 20 00:01:55,079 --> 00:01:59,719 about a year or so ago, the governor of this state signed in one 21 00:01:59,719 --> 00:02:07,240 of the more expansive universal school choice programs in the country. And let's start 22 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:13,520 there. Will that send a message to other states? Will that in bold 23 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,280 in other states to do what Iowa has done with its savings accounts, So 24 00:02:17,439 --> 00:02:22,080 I think it already has. And if you go back to twenty twenty, 25 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:27,439 the first state which I think really did take us over the top to pass 26 00:02:27,599 --> 00:02:32,479 universal choice in America was little the state of West Virginia. Yes, and 27 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:38,240 West Virginia was a state that no one thought would go broad in universal and 28 00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:42,520 it did and it's still a model. And that led almost immediately to Arizona 29 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,639 and Florida, and then right after that to Iowa. And now we have 30 00:02:46,719 --> 00:02:51,960 had twelve states in the last three years that have passed programs for universal eligibility 31 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,439 right its meaning every family is eligible. Now, whether that's truly universal choice 32 00:02:55,479 --> 00:02:59,560 because every family is eligible, but they don't have enough money for it. 33 00:03:00,039 --> 00:03:04,280 Another question? Right, twelve states, And look, this is not surprising, 34 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,639 right, COVID really supercharged school choice. Right. Families saw what happened 35 00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:12,800 during the pandemic and said we want something different, whether that's more charter schools, 36 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:16,639 more homeschooling, more small schools, more micro schools, even more public 37 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,319 school choice. Right. They just wanted more choice and they're demanding it. 38 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,520 And that's why we got to a million plus kids, no doubt. And 39 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,680 as you mentioned, I think COVID, I think we all agree COVID the 40 00:03:29,759 --> 00:03:35,599 pandemic was an eye opener. I remember, you know, parents talking to 41 00:03:35,639 --> 00:03:40,439 me as a reporter saying in Madison, Wisconsin, hey were tuned into the 42 00:03:40,439 --> 00:03:47,400 so called remote learning where they have things like asymmetrical learning models. And I 43 00:03:47,439 --> 00:03:55,120 didn't know what asymmetrical meant until we found out that it was basically kids in 44 00:03:55,159 --> 00:04:00,639 the Madison school district who were playing video games on their phones all day because 45 00:04:01,319 --> 00:04:05,960 the teachers didn't bother to show up to educate them. We lost a year 46 00:04:06,439 --> 00:04:13,240 plus of education, the lost year plus in America, of course, But 47 00:04:13,479 --> 00:04:16,839 how much did that. What are the numbers showing us in terms of parents 48 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:23,000 saying enough is enough, I'm ready to make the move. I'm going to 49 00:04:23,079 --> 00:04:27,199 choose a different path of education from my child. Oh look, school choice 50 00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:30,480 has been going on for twenty five years before that, But really, what 51 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,279 happened? Think about this way. You know, there have been a million 52 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,319 kids dropping out in America schools every year for the last twenty years. But 53 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,399 all of a sudden on March thirteenth, twenty twenty, everyone became a teacher, 54 00:04:42,439 --> 00:04:45,480 and everyone became an educator, and they were looking over their kids' shoulder 55 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,759 watching what the schools were giving them or send them or not send them in 56 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,199 their backpacks. And I think parents said, we've had enough, right, 57 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,759 we want something different. And one way to tell of that success is one 58 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:03,639 the growth in homeschooling is of fifty one percent increase since the pandemic. Most 59 00:05:03,639 --> 00:05:05,680 of that, by the way, quite a large trunk of that is among 60 00:05:06,199 --> 00:05:10,959 black single mothers who were saying I want to homeschool, educate my kids. 61 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,759 Both of these things called micro schools is amazing. No matter how we slice 62 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,480 the data, we're hearing that somewhere between eight and ten percent of families are 63 00:05:18,519 --> 00:05:24,360 already in these sort of small school environments. So what you're finding here is 64 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,800 that families are saying, let's try something different. And another way you can 65 00:05:27,879 --> 00:05:32,079 judge this is look by the number of bills introduced. So in twenty nineteen 66 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,839 there were probably forty or fifty bills introduced for school choice. Twenty twenty three, 67 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,959 there were one hundred and twenty five bills. And this year, you 68 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,319 know, and often during as you know, during years where there are elections, 69 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,319 you have smaller numbers of choice bills or any bills introduced. There were 70 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,639 actually almost ninety bills introduced this year, so you could see the growth in 71 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,560 just both the legislative impact and the family desires. I think that says a 72 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,680 lot about the success of school choice the movement in America, and we'll talk 73 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,360 about that in just a moment, but to stay on COVID for another moment. 74 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,439 I think there were a lot of parents, there are a lot of 75 00:06:10,519 --> 00:06:15,839 parents in this country who have gotten tired of the identity politics injected into their 76 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:24,680 children's taxpayer funded educations in public pre K through twelve schools. I think they 77 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:29,040 also got tired of their schools. As I mentioned, before being closed down, 78 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:35,240 even long after we learned that the pandemic really wasn't impacting our kids, 79 00:06:35,519 --> 00:06:45,439 and the you know, COVID nineteen was really dangerous to a certain population, 80 00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:49,519 a segmented population, not to our kids and most of our teachers. Yet 81 00:06:49,639 --> 00:06:58,839 we had the education industry, the you know, K through twelve public education 82 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:05,160 industry continuing to shut down schools while private schools other choice schools in the main 83 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:10,079 went back to school much earlier. How much did that have an impact on 84 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,519 the numbers? Oh, it had a huge impact. I mean the fact 85 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,600 that what families saw that micro schools, pods, private schools, charter schools 86 00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:21,439 were all much more flexible than the traditional system. I think helped make parents 87 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:26,560 understand that this isn't about public versus private, It's about getting the best thing 88 00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:29,839 for their kids. And look, you know who the biggest people who are 89 00:07:29,879 --> 00:07:32,360 frustrated with the current system are right now. It's their public school teachers. 90 00:07:32,839 --> 00:07:38,120 They're leaving in droves, they're retiring and droves. They want to do something 91 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,319 different, and they support school choice as well. That's why a lot of 92 00:07:41,319 --> 00:07:44,839 them are starting these new micro schools. And as for the values thing, 93 00:07:44,879 --> 00:07:48,240 I think this is an interesting conversation. Look, we believe in pluralism in 94 00:07:48,279 --> 00:07:51,519 America, where we should I think, right, believe in pluralism because that's 95 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:56,600 part of who we are. And I think what people began to realize is 96 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,959 that traditional schools during the pandemic were actually keeping up the teaching a monolithic style 97 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:07,439 of values. Now, let's be honest. We want families to associate and 98 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:13,120 create schools and environments where their kids can learn the most they can learn. 99 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,240 We know that private school choice, by the way, programs, create more 100 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:20,600 tolerant children than in their traditional public schools. And so what does that mean. 101 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:26,199 Let's say I'm a family that doesn't believe that the school was teaching history 102 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:31,120 correctly, it really wasn't teaching history of slavery correctly, which it probably wasn't 103 00:08:31,159 --> 00:08:35,440 right by the way on all accounts, right, But they want to have 104 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,440 more involvement in that kind of curriculum. Great thing about school choices allows that. 105 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:43,600 What about a family that's saying, hey, you know what, my 106 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:48,720 child doesn't really need to be teached taught all these issues around gender, right, 107 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,960 we'd like something different. You can go and start a school. There 108 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:54,759 the whole point of the school choice is you're leading to an opportunity to have 109 00:08:54,799 --> 00:09:01,559 a more pluralistic environment. What is the argument that you hear from the educrats 110 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:09,240 from the education public education establishment about the funding, the weeping and gnashing of 111 00:09:09,399 --> 00:09:16,679 teeth from public teachers' unions in particular, they're taking all of the money away 112 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:22,440 and they're putting it into charter schools, and they're putting it into vouchers schools 113 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:31,000 and all kinds of different schools outside of you know, the watch and control 114 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:37,120 of the public education establishment. I have looked at this in particular in Wisconsin, 115 00:09:37,639 --> 00:09:43,879 and the numbers to me are astounding, not supporting what the public education 116 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:50,320 and teachers union systems say. But the argument for school choice, it seems 117 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,919 to me based in Wisconsin in particular, and I think the case replicates itself 118 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:01,799 across the country and school choice, that parents and students and the community are 119 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,559 getting a much better value under school choice than they are in the public education 120 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,879 system. One hundred percent agree. And look, I'm going to call this 121 00:10:09,919 --> 00:10:13,559 one out because I think our opponents of school choice simply don't tell the truth 122 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,919 about how schools are funded, and arguing that schools don't have enough money is 123 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,159 like saying, I guess the one hundred and ninety billion dollars that were given 124 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:28,120 in COVID relief fund and the life wasn't enough that they already get seven hundred 125 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,480 and fifty billion dollars a year in traditional public schools, the extra one hundred 126 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,960 and ninety billion really wasn't going to be able to service the kids. They 127 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,720 way that they think that's just ludicrous, right, And I look at it 128 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:43,080 more from a kid's perspective. So in my home state of Indianapolis, a 129 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:48,480 child in third grade in Indianapolis public schools will get about fifteen thousand dollars to 130 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,279 go to in state, federal and local money to go to a public school. 131 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,279 That same third grade child, low income third grade child will get about 132 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,679 nine thousand dollars or ten dollars dollars to go to a charter school. And 133 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,480 they'll get some state and they'll get some federal money. That same third grade 134 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,200 child, we'll get about five grand or six grand on average to go to 135 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,080 a private school. I just want to know why that child, that third 136 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,679 grade liv income child is worth nine to ten thousand dollars less just by the 137 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,799 virture of their school site. Reality of this argument that they make is that 138 00:11:20,159 --> 00:11:24,440 they believe all dollars should only go to a public school. If you really 139 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,360 want to talk about who drains money from public schools faster than anything else, 140 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:33,759 it's other public schools. Right. The largest choice program in America is when 141 00:11:33,799 --> 00:11:35,360 people pick up and buy a house and move from one district to another. 142 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,159 By their logic, if a person moves from a district A to district B, 143 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,799 they're taking money away from public schools. It's going from one public school 144 00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:48,840 to another. So I think the question here that our opponents are really not 145 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:54,200 wanting to honestly grapple with is they're okay if you spend the money in the 146 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,440 government run school system, but not if you allow families to have taxpayer dollars 147 00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,399 that, by the way, they've put in to the system to go to 148 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,399 a school that better for them and a choice system. Yes, indeed, 149 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,679 and as you mentioned, they're arguing against even though they don't want that to 150 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:13,559 be part of their argument or known part of their argument. The school choice 151 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,320 movement within public school systems, as you say, better school systems, or 152 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,960 at least believed to be by families, and it's their choice to make. 153 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,360 Of course, that's what we're arguing about here, That's what we're you know, 154 00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:30,360 school choice proponents defend. But yet you have, you know, you 155 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,759 have a big labor in the teachers' unions, and you have the public education 156 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:41,960 system, you know, arguing if they could, they would take that option 157 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:48,519 away from from families and students as well. Yeah, so it's ironic that 158 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:52,559 the people who oppose school choice, who say they're the most let's say progressive, 159 00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:56,679 let's use that term, right, the most progressive, are the very 160 00:12:56,759 --> 00:13:01,759 ones keeping in place a system that is created and more income segregation and more 161 00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:07,000 racial segregation than our country's ever seen. So the argument that these folks are 162 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,519 making against school choices basically saying, I'm okay with folks who have money picking 163 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,240 up and buying a house and a gated, segregated, income, segregated community. 164 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,279 We're good with that, right, don't take that money anywhere else, 165 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:22,759 don't go to a private school, don't go to a charter school, don't 166 00:13:22,799 --> 00:13:26,240 have choices. Just let's just keep this system in place. And we know 167 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,919 this system is built on a Prussian ideology. Right, if you go back 168 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,120 to the eighteen thirties and eighteen forties, when it came up to be. 169 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:39,120 It came from Prussia, which is a militaristic background. We wanted to create 170 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,639 a public school system that was basically preparing people to be manufacturers, to be 171 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:48,399 ready. And I always asked this question, do you know why that there 172 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:54,759 was a school bell between classes? Originally because they wanted to get kids used 173 00:13:54,759 --> 00:13:58,679 to the factory whistle. Oh, isn't that interesting? So these folks who 174 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:05,200 appos school choice are actually supporting a system that is tremendously oppressive. That's it. 175 00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:11,320 Yeah, you never hear that, of course from the public education defenders 176 00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:16,480 or the opponents of school choice. More so, my history behind the school 177 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:24,639 bell is of course with Ralphie from a Christmas story where por Flick is goaded 178 00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:35,559 into putting his tongue on the frozen poll, right, and then he's stuck 179 00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:43,759 there and the bell rings, and Ralph Ralphie's argument for leaving poor Flick is 180 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,799 the bell rang. And I think that drives home the point what he just 181 00:14:48,879 --> 00:14:52,639 said. You know, the kids in the nineteen thirties and forties, just 182 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,799 like kids throughout the last one hundred and fifty years in this country, have 183 00:14:56,919 --> 00:15:00,480 responded to the bell ringing. The bell rang and what you you have said 184 00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:07,039 is interesting because that was all tied into preparing for a future of manufacturing, 185 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:11,960 and one could argue being indoctrinated into a particular system. And that is exactly 186 00:15:13,039 --> 00:15:16,559 why a lot of parents are saying no more of that for us, Thank 187 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,159 you very much. That's right, because no kid is average, right, 188 00:15:20,559 --> 00:15:24,960 There's no such thing as an average kid, and every school district tries to 189 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,600 create average kids. And the whole point of education should be about making sure 190 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,360 a child can get in where they fit in, making sure they could learn 191 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:37,480 as they need, individualizing a structure that will actually help them to become the 192 00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:43,000 best citizens possible. You just can't do that in a top down, one 193 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,320 size fits all system. And that's what we're talking about here. We're talking 194 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,120 about busting up this system that has just not worked over time. I mean, 195 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:54,240 you use the analogy of Ralphie I like that. By our opponents of 196 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,840 school choice basically say oh, you've got to support public schools. We need 197 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,480 more money, support us and we'll get better. And they say that every 198 00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:07,919 time they pull the football out from Charlie Brown's foot. Yeah right, yeah, 199 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,399 keep pulling the football out. Oh, give us more money and then 200 00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:11,559 they pull it away. Give us more money, we'll get better. The 201 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,559 reality is that if you want to hold public schools to account, then they 202 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,480 need to be held to the same account of the ability to parents to leave 203 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,519 right, which we don't hold them accountable at all despite all this regulation on 204 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,840 them. Robert Denlow, President and CEO of ed Choice, an Indianapolis based 205 00:16:27,879 --> 00:16:34,919 nonprofit, nonpartisan organization committed to advancing educational freedom and choice for all as a 206 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:41,240 pathway to successful lives in a stronger society, joining us on this edition of 207 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:48,159 the Federalist Radio Hour. Let's go back in time because this was the vision 208 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:53,600 of Milton and Rose Friedman, of course, wonderful people who founded ed Choice 209 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,159 many many years ago, I believe back in nineteen ninety six, so you're 210 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,839 coming up on thirty years. And they had, as you note on your 211 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:10,079 website, a very clear vision that every family would have the ability to choose 212 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:15,200 a personalized education for their children. I think more nothing less you note on 213 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,720 your website. Today, they would be proud to learn that this vision is 214 00:17:19,759 --> 00:17:25,240 becoming a reality. As we mentioned at the outset of this episode, over 215 00:17:25,279 --> 00:17:30,599 one million children now participating in private school choice programs. Across the country when 216 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,240 all of this started. And I remember when this started because I was reporting 217 00:17:34,319 --> 00:17:38,519 on it in the state of Wisconsin once again. Governor Tommy Thompson, Republican 218 00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:45,680 governor at that time, had made Milwaukee one of the first testing grounds to 219 00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:51,079 see if Milton Friedman's vision would work, if it would be successful. And 220 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:56,839 I can tell you this thirty plus years later, it definitely has been successful, 221 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:02,440 not only in Milwaukee, but now expanded first into Racine, Wisconsin and 222 00:18:02,519 --> 00:18:08,400 now statewide. What do you think about the origins from whence you came and 223 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,759 where you are today. Wow, that's a great question. And thanks for 224 00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:15,640 reminding me of how long I've been in this movement. I appreciate you. 225 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,839 Know. Milton said something that keeps me in this movement all the time. 226 00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:25,279 He basically said, the tragedy and irony is that the system that was set 227 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,720 up, the system of public schools, was set up to create a common 228 00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:34,359 set of values a and educate our children, should in fact exacerbate the stratification 229 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,599 of society. For those of us who are been in this movement for a 230 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,880 long time, the idea of school choice is a way to create a less 231 00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:49,000 stratified society, a society where everyone had the same opportunity to advance, regardless 232 00:18:49,039 --> 00:18:52,880 of where you lived or how much money you had. And I think that 233 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,160 was what with the origins some of the origins of the Milwaukee program. Look, 234 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,759 I was there in some of the beginning, not in the beginning beginning, 235 00:18:59,759 --> 00:19:03,640 but Howard Fuller, it was and is a good friend of mine, 236 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,079 and he was the one who, with Polly Williams and Tommy Thompson, helped 237 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,319 create that program. And you know, doctor Fuller and Polly Williams, they 238 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,240 what people don't realize is when they started the Milwaukee voucher program, that wasn't 239 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:19,519 what they wanted at the Milwaukee level. What they wanted was a black led, 240 00:19:19,559 --> 00:19:25,359 black run school district because the school system wasn't serving black kids and is, 241 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,359 by the way, it still isn't today. Right. Yes, the 242 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,359 more things changed, the more they stayed the same in Milwaukee, unfortunately. 243 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,000 Yeah, But doctor Folly said, Okay, well I can't do that, 244 00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:37,599 then let's try this thing called vouchers. And Tommy Thompson said, this is 245 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,359 a great idea. Milton Freeman, here's the idea. And it worked, 246 00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:44,440 right, it's working and it continues to work, because the idea is you 247 00:19:44,519 --> 00:19:47,400 need to be able to create choice and exit. You need to be able 248 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,440 to make sure that families have the ability to vote with their feet. And 249 00:19:49,519 --> 00:19:55,359 that's what happened in Milwaukee in nineteen ninety five when nineteen ninety then expanded in 250 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:00,519 nineteen ninety five, and then it has gone across the country. Remember, 251 00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:03,839 the goal of this is not just to simply allow families to choose private schools. 252 00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:08,039 The goal of this whole effort that Milton Freeman started way back in the 253 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,960 day in the fifties was to create an educational system, to restructure it so 254 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,559 that we actually get to the kind of quality education that every child deserves. 255 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:22,759 You know, in America today, less than only forty percent of kids can 256 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:23,880 read on grade level. That's black, white, and everyone, right, 257 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,359 only forty percent. If you're black, it's like eighteen percent. That's unacceptable, 258 00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:33,079 right. We cannot continue to support any kind of system that allows that, 259 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,440 and so we have to radically restructure that. And that was the goal 260 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,880 that Milton Freeman said, let's radically restructure our education system in a more competitive 261 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:47,839 way to create better results. I guess the big question here, you know, 262 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,599 the billion plus times billion. Question, because how much money we have 263 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:59,880 we have spent in the education system in America is why why do we have 264 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:07,359 kids at you know, with only forty percent all kids proficient in reading and 265 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:14,640 writing, less than that I believe proficient in mathematics. Why is it that 266 00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:22,559 our minority communities, our black communities, our Hispanic communities are testing so much 267 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,799 lower on that front. We're falling so far, so much farther behind from 268 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:36,200 other industrialized First world nations. Why is that with so much money involved. 269 00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:40,319 All those nations, by the way, have universal choice, right, Like 270 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,319 you think about this, Every European nation that you know actually allows public dollars 271 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,200 to flow to private schools and has done for years. Right, And that's 272 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,119 just the reality of the way education works across across the world except here. 273 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,559 What Milton said, what doctor Freeman said, is we basically have connected to 274 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,839 things the public funding of education with a government running of schools. And his 275 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,799 argument was very simple, to separate the government funding of education from the government 276 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,000 running of schools would be more effective, more efficient, and more and better 277 00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:15,640 for kids. So we know from our traditional public school system. Here's one 278 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,960 of my favorite comments I make, and I don't often say I like this 279 00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:26,160 comment, but it's true. Whyatt, I've never seen a imagine Amazon blames 280 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,240 every consumer that uses Amazon for a failure of the product that they deliver. 281 00:22:30,759 --> 00:22:36,559 Right, So, like, it's the only system in America where public schools 282 00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:41,680 get to blame the user of the product for a failure of the product, 283 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,640 right, meaning public schools blame parents for how bad their education system is. 284 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,359 We have more non teachers than teachers in schools. We've given billions more in 285 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,359 K twelve funding than ever before, and yet it's continually said, well, 286 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,440 these kids are so hard to educate. It's these bad families. How about 287 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,039 maybe the system is it working enough for failings? Oh? Yes, I 288 00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:10,079 think that has been increasingly clear if it wasn't clear decades ago. But you 289 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,079 know, that's the bottom line issue. And if you take a look at 290 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,519 the numbers, the school choice movement, the education choice movement in America has 291 00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:25,079 made significant, substantial strides. But let's put it in perspective. You're at 292 00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:30,640 over a million kids in counting involved in school choice programs. That's out of 293 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:37,160 what fifty million kids nationally. There's a lot of ground to cover. There's 294 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,680 a lot of work to do, and yet you have you know, so 295 00:23:41,759 --> 00:23:52,079 many government institutions and so many politicians and policymakers fighting against a system that has 296 00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:57,720 shown to be very successful. Yeah, no doubt. And look, I 297 00:23:57,759 --> 00:24:00,839 want to be clear, this isn't really ultimately and it shouldn't be about whether 298 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,480 public versus private, or charter versus private. Really, this is ultimately what 299 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:10,519 do families need, right. It is my hope that a system of choice 300 00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:12,559 will make our public schools better. We know that the data shows that, 301 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,559 right, if you have a school choice program, public schools get better faster. 302 00:24:17,799 --> 00:24:21,559 That's what we're looking for here, improvement over time. Right, And 303 00:24:21,599 --> 00:24:23,480 we now know on the positive side, we only have a million kids in 304 00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:27,200 the program, which is a great milestone, but almost forty percent of all 305 00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:30,880 kids in America eligible now. So what we've got to do now is make 306 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,200 sure that they know they have their options, that they have the freedom to 307 00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:37,799 choose, and make sure they can go ahead and do that. That's an 308 00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:44,480 excellent point. You've expanded the universe, and that universe was very limited, 309 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,759 you know, a decade ago. A lot of work has been accomplished, 310 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,960 as you note, and as you noted, over the last five six years 311 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,480 in this country alone. Again, much work needs to be done on this 312 00:24:56,559 --> 00:25:00,200 front. And as you say, it's it's not the vision of school choice 313 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:07,480 proponents to you know, decide what is you know, ultimately the schools, 314 00:25:07,599 --> 00:25:15,640 the education systems where parents, where families direct their time and energy. I 315 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:22,079 mean that undercuts exactly what the argument of school choice is. So I guess 316 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:27,039 the question is when you talk about school choice making public schools better, are 317 00:25:27,079 --> 00:25:32,920 they making public schools better? Because we see the results, of course, 318 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,960 especially in the COVID and post COVID years, have been very dismal, very 319 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,960 believedb COVID results are going to, you know, shift the whole They're going 320 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:45,880 to skew the whole data set for a little while, to be honest with 321 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,480 you. But the reality we know from in states like there's been research into 322 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,839 how does school choice programs affect public school test scores in Milwaukee, for example, 323 00:25:56,599 --> 00:26:00,079 what happens when there's a public school in a high choice so like let's 324 00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:03,640 say down there in South Milwaukee, where there's a lot of choice schools and 325 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,599 there's some public schools, what happens to those public schools in those areas where 326 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,960 families have a lot of different choices. What we've learned is that those public 327 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:17,640 schools around those really choice environments get better faster. Now, this is the 328 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,200 data we have that competitive effects works, but that's only because we've been doing 329 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,880 it and studying in Wisconsin, in Florida and a couple of the states. 330 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:32,400 What's going to be interesting going forward will be what will the broad choice programs 331 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,160 in Florida, Arizona and these twelve other states. What will they do to 332 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,680 public schools? Will they actually force them to get better? Now, I 333 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,799 will tell you that in a place like Arizona, there's a reason why the 334 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:48,640 NATE scores for Hispanic kids are the highest and why they're doing very well compared 335 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,799 to other states, because they actually have a competitive educational environment and it works 336 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:59,720 very well for them. It's interesting to take a look at school choice over 337 00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:04,920 time. As we've talked about Milton Friedman really leading this whole movement, Tommy 338 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:10,680 Thompson, other governors like him, you know, the governor of Louisiana early 339 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,599 on involved in this. But at every step of the way, you've had, 340 00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:23,319 particularly almost exclusively from liberal or Democrat administrations, you've had, you know, 341 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:30,599 a resistance to this, not just you know, we object on philosophical 342 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,720 grounds, but in the Obama administration, you had a weaponized that's a term 343 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:40,160 we hear often used in politics today, but it really was a weaponized Department 344 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,799 of Justice in their Dear Colleague letters, I know, trying to shut down 345 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:49,559 school choice in Wisconsin, where you had a liberal governor in Tony Evers who 346 00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:53,880 worked with the Department of Justice to do that. And I assure you that's 347 00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:00,400 help happened elsewhere. How do you how do you fight back against a federal 348 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:07,279 government? And I would imagine the Biden administration is no better no Homa administration 349 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,960 on this run, But how do you fight back against that kind of weaponization 350 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,720 targeting school choice schools? Well, the first and most important way to fight 351 00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:18,680 back is to make sure that parents are front and center of the conversation. 352 00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:22,799 Right. This revolution that we're in is a parent based revolution. That's happening 353 00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:29,640 since COVID and parents are done with basically saying you can mess around with my 354 00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:34,240 kids education. And it's becoming a litmus test for a lot of legislative fights, 355 00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:37,720 right, and not in just legislative fights, for a lot of politics. 356 00:28:37,759 --> 00:28:42,039 Right. So you saw in Florida governors were elected by school choice supporters. 357 00:28:42,319 --> 00:28:48,440 You're seeing all over the country now in state after state legislators being ousted 358 00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:52,400 from their positions because they don't support the idea of school choice. And so 359 00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:56,799 first and foremost it's parents who are making this happen. And the more those 360 00:28:56,799 --> 00:29:00,480 stories get out, the less the government can interfere. How much has the 361 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:06,599 craziness of the far left, I mean, from my perspective, it is 362 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,119 absolute insanity. It's more than that, it's a war on reality, quite 363 00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:15,759 frankly, but with all kinds of different issues, but particularly you know, 364 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:23,599 identity politics, and in that subset, particularly the whole trans acceptance movement, 365 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:32,519 the you know, the DEI movement that is now so inculcated in our public 366 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:40,400 educational systems. How much has that influenced the expansion of school choice in America. 367 00:29:41,119 --> 00:29:45,640 So there's no doubt that families, and again I think from all different 368 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,759 types of values, that values are becoming important to families, right, And 369 00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:52,480 so I think there is a sense that families think that and by the way, 370 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,759 this is true among black and brown families too, that the system has 371 00:29:56,799 --> 00:30:00,519 gone too far in some of its ideas, right, and particularly in what 372 00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:03,039 they teach kids, and so I think there's a recognition that there are some 373 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:08,000 legitimate boundaries that should be put in place related to how kids are taught and 374 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,160 what kids are taught. But on the other hand, look, I think 375 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,880 we've got to be very careful here. Look, there are lots of kids 376 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,559 who are bullied because they're special needs. There's lots of kids who are bullied 377 00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:26,480 because they happen to be LGBTQ, right and gay and lesbian. And we 378 00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:29,039 don't want kids to get bullied, right, That's not our goal here. 379 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:33,240 Our goal here is to make sure there's an environment for them while making sure 380 00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:37,079 that the values are aligned with what families want. And I think that's where 381 00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:41,799 school choice becomes so positive. Right, you can create learning environments that are 382 00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:45,160 aligned with your values. And that's what's happening. You know, in Florida 383 00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:49,519 there have been over seven hundred new private schools starts since they started this program, 384 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,319 a huge number, and a lot of those will be serving families who 385 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,400 say, you know what, I want to make sure my kids are taught 386 00:30:57,319 --> 00:31:00,680 human sexuality in a way that I agree with. Some of those might be 387 00:31:02,119 --> 00:31:04,960 I want to say space for my child who happens to be gay. And 388 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,200 I think when we think about these values based conversation, there's no doubt that 389 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,599 it has had an impact. You're right one about that. But when we 390 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,759 think about America, we have to think about the values we care about, 391 00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:19,119 and one of them is pluralism and one of them is common sense, right, 392 00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:22,759 And I think the public school system has lost its mind some ways when 393 00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:26,519 it comes to common sense. And I think that's what parents are noticing. 394 00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:30,400 And again I think it's parents across all stripes, right, And you're right 395 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,240 that the values war is out there. It is legit. It is a 396 00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:38,119 legitimate situation that's happening. Again, whether that's good or bad. The coal 397 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,759 here is to make sure kids get educated in environment works best for them. 398 00:31:42,519 --> 00:31:45,960 Just a few minutes left, and I'd be remiss if I, obviously if 399 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:51,240 I didn't ask you what's ahead. But before we get to what's ahead, 400 00:31:51,319 --> 00:31:56,640 what's the current landscape? Like you mentioned earlier on in our conversation that we've 401 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:04,319 seen a lot of states moving toward universal school choice. You noted the significant 402 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,279 increase in numbers and talk about a million plus students and growing in the school 403 00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:15,720 choice movement. What is on the horizon what's currently in play legislation wise on 404 00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:20,519 school choice. So right now we're to the end of the sessions. There's 405 00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:22,880 Pennsylvania is still in play where they have a lifeline scholarship. I don't know 406 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,079 if you saw this, but jay Z came out and supported school vouchers. 407 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,240 Yes, right, right, And so you're seeing all sorts of movement on 408 00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:35,160 the non parts inside in to make sure that kids have education. So in 409 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,759 Pennsylvania there's an opportunity. Next year, there's going to be a lot of 410 00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:40,759 opportunity. Right, So you're going to look at western states like Montana, 411 00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:44,720 You're to look at places like Idaho. You're going to look like the big 412 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,200 one Texas, right. We hope that Texas will see choice. I think 413 00:32:47,359 --> 00:32:51,720 the key thing though is to remember, Look, it's one thing to say 414 00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:54,400 everyone jeligible. Let's say we pass a program that where everyone's eligible, but 415 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,559 we only say that the program is going to be capped out at one hundred 416 00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:00,319 million dollars. Well, I don't know if you know this, but that's 417 00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:07,319 like five ten thousand kids. So that really doesn't change the system. You 418 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,039 need to make sure that these programs, if you look to the future, 419 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,240 are funded with the formula funding. Right, What I say is, I 420 00:33:14,359 --> 00:33:17,960 just want every family to have the same benefit of public school freedom, which 421 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,720 means if I go from one public school to another, what happens, every 422 00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:25,400 dollar follows my kid. I just want the same thing to happen on a 423 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,559 formula funded way with choice programs. This is why places like West Virginia, 424 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:36,559 Florida, Arizona, and Arkansas are going to lead the way because they not 425 00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,240 only give every kid the ability to choose, they let them take all the 426 00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:43,960 formula funded dollars. And that means, like Indiana, where we see these 427 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,400 programs grow, it will grow consistently and stably over time. And I think 428 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:53,039 that's really important because the goal here is to make sure that the dollars follow 429 00:33:53,079 --> 00:33:58,960 the kids, just like they do in public schools. That's always the goal, 430 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,039 that's always the mission. Make sure that the dollars follow the kids, 431 00:34:02,079 --> 00:34:09,360 not the buildings, not the institutions. Before I get to my final question, 432 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:17,360 I'm just curious about where you think some of these states that have been 433 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:23,000 fighting so long, if that will ultimately change in what we like to consider 434 00:34:23,039 --> 00:34:28,880 many of our deep blue states, you know that are clearly aligned with the 435 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:35,079 teachers' unions clearly aligned with the public education edocrats all of that. But I 436 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,800 asked this in context. The polling has for a long time and maybe because 437 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:46,400 of the success ultimately indeed because of the success you had, the polling shows 438 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:54,239 that Americans, in some cases a vast majority of Americans support school choice. 439 00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:00,320 There's a reason why people in Illinois are leaving and DROs and you know where 440 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,960 they're going, Indiana, And you know why, because they're school choice programs. 441 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,280 One of the main reasons it's always happening Wisconsin to Wisconsin do. The 442 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,519 reality here is is over time, blue states are going to realize that they're 443 00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:17,000 losing families to states that have more opportunity, more options. And I know 444 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:21,920 that's working because it's working in my home state. So that's number one. 445 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,840 Number two, you're seeing a massive growth in these things called micro schools, 446 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:31,239 and that is across blue and red states. Right there are tons of families 447 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:37,480 in blue states that are sort of doing it themselves, low cost private alternatives 448 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,199 in communities of color. It's amazing the vibrancy that's going on. And I 449 00:35:42,199 --> 00:35:45,639 think, so you're building a system from the bottom up in these blue states, 450 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,480 and the next thing I think you're going to see is you're already starting 451 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,719 to see. Finally, the polling has always been that everyone supports choice across 452 00:35:53,719 --> 00:36:00,840 all demographics, but you're finally starting to see the chink between the public support, 453 00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:05,519 let's say, among African Americans, and African American legislative support. So 454 00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:09,719 it is really encouraging. The Louisiana saw six Democrats support school choice. That 455 00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:15,159 in Nebraska you saw some great leaders of color supporting school choice and Democrats. 456 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:20,920 You're beginning to see this move and I think as it continues to grow, 457 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,519 as you can see you to has states past universal choice, you're going to 458 00:36:23,559 --> 00:36:29,440 see more blue states have to take it up. All right, final question 459 00:36:29,519 --> 00:36:32,960 for you, let me give you the human resources question. Give you the 460 00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:42,119 where does ed choice? Where does the school choice movement in America? Where 461 00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:46,920 do you see it ten years from now? That's a great question. I 462 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:52,079 think in ten years from now, if we have schooling being delivered in the 463 00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:57,480 exact same way, we're going to be failing. What do I mean by 464 00:36:57,519 --> 00:37:00,800 that? Americans? Tell us we've been I don't know if you know this, 465 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,480 but Edgeway started doing monthly polling. We didn't mean to, but we 466 00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:08,039 started in February twenty twenty, and we've been doing it every month since February 467 00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:12,159 twenty twenty. And since we know what parents are telling us, right, 468 00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:17,239 it's crazy. We've had monthly polling about education for now three years. What 469 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:22,360 families are telling us is they don't want to be in school five days a 470 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,000 week. So more than half of the families, and certainly more than half 471 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,320 of black families, are saying I would like my kid to learn at home 472 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,639 one to two days a week, or learn in a different setting. And 473 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:38,320 so if we're just delivering education in a brick and mortar fashion, whether it's 474 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,880 public, private, or charter, in ten years and we're not doing something 475 00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:46,480 that is much different and much more vibrant and much more modern, I think 476 00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:52,400 that is when I think will WILL have failed. It's interesting that you started 477 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:59,639 that polling just at the you know, the beginning, the origins, if 478 00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:05,639 you will, of COVID nineteen, the upcoming the lockdowns were just a month 479 00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:08,000 away. When you started, you'd have no idea of knowing just how dramatically 480 00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:12,239 this would impact our lives. But there you are. I mean, you 481 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,719 have polling throughout the pandemic and post pandemic. So it is interesting what you're 482 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:25,280 hearing from people over this very interesting period in America. And it's not just 483 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,119 like one off, it's consistent over time. We'll spend some of our own 484 00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:34,159 money. They're telling us. We like more flexible school hours, we would 485 00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:37,960 like more flexible options, we'd like more curriculum opportunities, they're basically saying. 486 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,079 And this is particularly true of younger families. I'm sure you know they want 487 00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:45,679 to customize. They don't understand why one size fits all system shut down their 488 00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:49,719 throat. And so I think this is coming for blue states where they like 489 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,599 it or not, because the people are getting younger. Yeah, it's funny. 490 00:38:53,679 --> 00:39:00,000 You know, we don't have the one size fits all for all ass 491 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,599 effects of American life, and we still believe ourselves to be free. Why 492 00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:09,719 not move to the freer model in education? And I think that's the question. 493 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,559 Of course, you folks have been asking for a long time and advocating 494 00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:19,000 for. Really do appreciate your time today. It's such an important movement. 495 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,400 We wish you nothing but success moving forward in the next million kids to be 496 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,440 involved in school choice. Thanks so much for having me, really appreciate it 497 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,280 and here's onwards and upwards. As CS Lucy used to say. Indeed, 498 00:39:31,679 --> 00:39:37,559 thanks to my guest today, Robert Mlow, President and CEO of ED Choice, 499 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,360 you've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt 500 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,159 Kittle, Senior correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. 501 00:39:45,559 --> 00:39:57,320 Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the frame, earn a 502 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:02,480 favor, a reason, and then they faded away.