WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:05.000
This episode may contain content of a
graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and

2
00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:10.480
sexual violence against adults, children,
and animals. Listener discretion is advised.

3
00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:17.039
Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'm
Tanya, and together we are Crimes and

4
00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:36.679
Consequences, a true crime podcast.
Hi Tanya, Talia. Welcome back everybody

5
00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:41.320
to this week's episode of Crimes and
Consequences. We are going to do a

6
00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:47.840
very popular one today that I know
very little about, or I knew very

7
00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:53.679
little about and was always very curious. This is about Robert Allen Durst.

8
00:00:54.280 --> 00:01:00.759
Yes, that that is definitely there
was a bit HBO watch it. Yes,

9
00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.079
I should have a little background.
He was born in April twelve,

10
00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:10.519
nineteen forty three, in Scarsdale,
New York, to Seymour and Bernice.

11
00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:15.879
He was the oldest of four.
He had two younger brothers, Douglas and

12
00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:19.879
Thomas, and one of little sister, Wendy. Robert and his siblings were

13
00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:26.519
born into a very powerful and wealthy
family, one whose name carried weight along

14
00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:32.120
with it New York City. Robert's
grandfather, Joseph Durst, he built a

15
00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:38.760
prominent billion dollar real estate company,
d a lot of money which was turned

16
00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:45.040
into an empire. All of his
wealth started with his very first building purchase,

17
00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:49.640
which was back in nineteen twelve.
Then the Durst family's name became notorious.

18
00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.519
Today, the company is one of
the city's largest family run real estate

19
00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:59.719
organizations, and it's Robert's brother,
Douglas. He's the one that is at

20
00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:04.359
the of it. One night,
when Robert was seven years old, his

21
00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:10.080
mother either walked off or fell off
the side of the roof of the mansion,

22
00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:17.000
killing herself. Oh Man. Robert
claimed that his father had brought him

23
00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:21.759
to the window and that he witnessed
her death, which is kind of strange,

24
00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:24.599
yea. But his brother Douglas is
like na that didn't happen. That

25
00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:29.680
didn't happen. At the time of
her death, when it occurred, the

26
00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:35.719
newspapers had said Bernice had fallen off
the roof after overdosing an asthma medication.

27
00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:40.039
How Her, some family members,
including Robert, claimed it was suicide.

28
00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:45.439
I don't know exactly why she was
on the roof. I am not usually

29
00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:47.280
on my roof. You've ever been
on the roof of your house me either?

30
00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:53.879
Regardless of which one is actually true, her death really affected Robert.

31
00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:59.680
I mean he struggled with mental health
afterwards. When he was ten years old,

32
00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:05.159
he was assessed by a psychiatrist who
claimed he couldn't be treated because he

33
00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:13.080
had personality decomposition and possibly schizophrenia.
Oh no, he couldn't be treated.

34
00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:15.360
No, not really. I guess
you don't treat those disorders. What's metal

35
00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:19.159
decomposition? I don't know. It
doesn't sound that's something I want. No,

36
00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:23.520
maybe I have it. I don't
even know now. Maybe he attended

37
00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:27.919
Scarsdale High School, so he's still
functional. You know, he's still going

38
00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:30.919
to school, and he was described
as a loaner. He then went on

39
00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:37.520
to Pennsylvania's Lehigh University, So I
don't know how bad he could be if

40
00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:43.479
he's in college. He ended up
graduating nineteen sixty five with a bachelor's degree

41
00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:46.280
in economics. Oh that's hard staff. Well, then he enrolled in a

42
00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:51.199
doctoral program. Yeah, you see, all right, I mean that's some

43
00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:59.400
difficult subjects, especially if you have
personality decomposition. Yeah, SCHIPA. That

44
00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:04.479
is where he met and became very
close friends with an aspiring writer and the

45
00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:10.560
daughter of a mobster, Susan Berman. The two were thick as thieves.

46
00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:15.800
But I'll get back to that Later
in nineteen sixty nine, he withdrew from

47
00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:17.920
the doctoral program and he moved back
to New York City, but he was

48
00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:23.680
only there for a little bit.
At some point in the early nineteen seventies,

49
00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:29.399
he ended up moving to Vermont and
opening a health food store called All

50
00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:33.839
Good Things. I have a sense
that he traveled a lot back and forth

51
00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:39.639
between the two states. In the
fall of nineteen seventy one, he met

52
00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:45.120
eighteen year old Kathleen. She went
by Kathy McCormick. She was a donal

53
00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:49.720
hygienist who lived in one of the
buildings owned by the Durst family or organization,

54
00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:54.199
if you want to call it.
They met when Robert stopped by to

55
00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:59.319
pick up a run. Oh Hey, nice to meet you. Katy had

56
00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:01.639
just moved to New York City from
a Long Island. She was bright,

57
00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:05.920
charming, It's just the kind of
person everybody liked, and the two immediately

58
00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:13.680
hit it off. Kathy didn't seem
to mind his cool affection. As a

59
00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:17.800
matter of fact, she thought of
him more as a sweet, sensitive guy.

60
00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:21.680
The two were smitten with each other
just after two dates, and that's

61
00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:26.959
when Robert asked Kathy to move into
his Vermont home near his health food store.

62
00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.399
It wasn't until January nineteen seventy two
that she took him up on the

63
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:36.000
offer and moved in with them.
They were undoubtedly in love, but they

64
00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:42.560
had some issues. He's got a
couple yeah issues. For one thing,

65
00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:47.319
he was ten years older than her. Secondly, they came from two completely

66
00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:53.160
different worlds. He came from a
life of wealth and power, and Kathy

67
00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:57.360
came from a modest, Irish Catholic
household. It was easy for her to

68
00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:01.439
quickly become swept up in the lifestyle
that came along with being a Durst,

69
00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:08.639
but they still had their differences.
After being pressured from his father to move

70
00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:13.360
back to New York City and work
for the Durst organization, Robert eventually gave

71
00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.800
in. Just one year after the
couple had moved in together, Robert ended

72
00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:20.600
up closing his health food store and
moving back to the city. Both of

73
00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:27.600
them did. Actually, on Robert's
thirtieth birthday, Robert and Kathy got married.

74
00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:31.879
While la Marins had started out as
a loving one, things suddenly changed

75
00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:36.800
after moving from Vermont to New York
City. It was a big change,

76
00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:42.639
and it was not a good change. Kathy had said that Robert's father,

77
00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:46.439
Seymour, brought out the worst and
Robert, and that he turned him into

78
00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:50.720
a completely different person from the man
she fell in love with and Vermont.

79
00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:56.759
At first, Robert loved nothing more
than showed Kathy off because she's I mean,

80
00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.000
she's just beautiful, and he would
take her to the best and biggest

81
00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:05.680
events in New York. He loved
showing her this world that he knew and

82
00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:11.560
grew up in. Even Seymour approved
of his new daughter in law. However,

83
00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.480
his time went on. Robert,
who wasn't really as I said,

84
00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:19.319
that warm before he had a cool
affection, he got even colder. For

85
00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:25.959
a long time. Kathy kept how
miserable she was a secret. However,

86
00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:30.079
there were hints drop that alluded to
Robert having anger problems. What it first

87
00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:35.680
started out as yelling turned into pretending
to hit her. What yea, what

88
00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:41.800
the fuck is that is that?
And then much worse As time went on,

89
00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:48.000
it went downhill. Kathy's brother Jim
said he first witnessed Robert abusing Kathy

90
00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:54.279
at a family Christmas party when he
grabbed her by the hair. Oh my

91
00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:59.439
god, does it at a family
Christmas party? Right? Fuckjeez? He

92
00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:05.839
don't give one shit who sees right. Kathy had kept numerous diaries filled with

93
00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.399
details about how she'd been suffering in
the marriage. For one, Believe it

94
00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.680
or not, Robert was a cheapskate. Ah geez. He was one of

95
00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:18.480
those guys, A ton of money
but cheap as how, even though she

96
00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:20.600
was married to a millionaire, she
was still she was going to medical school.

97
00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.759
She wanted to have a career and
have her own money to do with

98
00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:28.519
as she pleased. He's probably up
her ass all the time, right about

99
00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:33.639
her spending. Then one day Robert
dropped this bomb on her. He told

100
00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:37.480
her I hidden money children and that
was upsetting for her. So she just

101
00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:43.720
tried to focus on school, but
saying that really fractured their relationship and after

102
00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:48.919
that it never got repaired. Robert
would tell her that he might be open

103
00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:52.919
to considering adapting, which gave Kathy
just like a little bit of hope,

104
00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:58.600
but he squashed that every time she
set up any appointment with any agency,

105
00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:03.320
he wouldn't go to make up excuses. In nineteen seventy six, Kathy ended

106
00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:09.480
up getting pregnant and Robert was pissed. He accuses her of doing it on

107
00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:15.120
purpose. And he for started get
an abortion, and he told her that

108
00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:18.320
he would divorce her if she didn't. She was really reluctant to do that

109
00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:24.360
because she really wanted to have a
baby, but she went through it and

110
00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:30.360
then she ended up suffering from depression
as a result. To make matters worse,

111
00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.600
it was also around the same time
when she first found out that Robert

112
00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:39.440
was a fucking knew it. I
knew it having an affair, fucker,

113
00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:45.799
you know how she found out how
she found polaroid pictures and their medicine cabinets.

114
00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:50.799
The medicine cabinet right like, like
though you're not even hiding it,

115
00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:56.799
right like at least tied the ship
beat a great man. How insulting.

116
00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.879
She asked him about the photos,
and Robert revealed that he'd had a woman

117
00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:05.720
in their home. Oh man,
and that's when shit would go nuclear at

118
00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:09.720
my house. Right, Not only
did he have a woman in their home,

119
00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.600
but he had moved things around their
home to make it look like he

120
00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:18.279
was a single man living there,
Like, get rid of those photos of

121
00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.200
anything of hers. He just outright
told her this, And it's just weird.

122
00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:30.080
No, this was something that no
relationship can really survive. There was

123
00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:33.919
no love left between the two of
them and Kathy, she was just basically

124
00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:39.919
suffering. In early nineteen eighty two, she was only twenty nine, Kathy

125
00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:46.399
was treated for facial bruises at the
Bronx Hospital. She told a friend that

126
00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:50.600
Robert had beaten her up when she
confronted him about another affair. She knew

127
00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:56.360
he'd taken up with a woman named
Prudence Farrell. And that is the same

128
00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.240
Prudence that the Beatles sing about in
their song to Your Prudence. It was

129
00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:05.360
the same woman and happens to be
Mia, Mia Pharaoh's sister. Yeah.

130
00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.000
So medical school alone stressful. It
was her final year and it was pretty

131
00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:18.039
difficult. Yeah, and then she's
daily being abused and emotionally abused. It

132
00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.240
was too much for twenty nine year
old Kathy. As a result, she

133
00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:26.600
began drinking successfully and using drugs to
cope with the abuse. She barely slept

134
00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:31.799
or eight. Her friends couldn't help
but notice this one's probably bright person,

135
00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.919
which is like a shelf of her
former self. She was detached, constantly

136
00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:43.080
frayed, and nervous. Kathy wanted
a divorce and began telling friends that she's

137
00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.799
going to leave Robert. As soon
as she finished medical school, she was

138
00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:52.360
going to file. Robert caught wind
of this, and he reacted by canceling

139
00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:58.159
all of her credit cards and removing
her from the joint bank account, and

140
00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:03.080
he wouldn't pay for her semester of
medical school. What a fuck had Yeah,

141
00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.120
that's when she just demanded a divorce, and she was only asking for

142
00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:11.519
a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
settlement, which considering he's an error to

143
00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:16.440
a billion eira, I mean.
Kathy told her friends they were probably married

144
00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:18.840
almost like ten years at this point
too. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

145
00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.679
you're running two or fifty grandsn't that
much. Kathy told friends that she had

146
00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:31.440
proof that Robert been embezzling money from
his father made and had made fraudulent claims

147
00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:35.399
on his tax returns as well as
her own, and she had let Robert

148
00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:41.080
know that she knew that shit girl. One time when she was at her

149
00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:45.600
New York City apartment with two friends, Phil Stevenson and George Karns. Those

150
00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:48.720
were the friends. Phil said that
Robert showed up at the door, threw

151
00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:54.639
a lot of cash at Kathy's face
and said, quote, this isn't happening.

152
00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:58.320
He was referring to the divorce that's
not gonna happen. Kathy then told

153
00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.240
Robert that she was just done and
she was going to move to Delaware.

154
00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:07.039
George, who was there witnessing this
interaction, said that there was a lot

155
00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:13.600
of yelling and screaming and that Robert
seemed really out of control and was out

156
00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.840
of his mind. Angry, no, how fucking awkward. Ten days later,

157
00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:24.600
Kathy disappeared oh fuck yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. She was last

158
00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.600
seen alive January thirty first, nineteen
eighty two, when she went to a

159
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.919
dinner party without Robert at her friend
Gilbert I don't know his last name in

160
00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:39.600
Connecticut. Kathy had shown up unexpectedly, and according to Gilbert, she wasn't

161
00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:46.360
acting like herself. She was typically
wore high quality clothes. She showed up

162
00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:52.240
in red sweatpants and seemed visibly upset
when she got there. During the party,

163
00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:56.519
Robert called that house multiple times wanting
to speak to Kathy, and people

164
00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:01.919
could hear him screaming through the phone
for her to come home. God,

165
00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:05.320
what a psycho, I mean she
didn't want to. She eventually left the

166
00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:11.120
party to return to the house in
New York. In an interview, Gilberte

167
00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.799
talked about the last conversation with Kathy. She said it was a very powerful

168
00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.840
conversation. Quote. As she was
leaving my house, she turned to me

169
00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:26.559
and said, Gilberte promised me,
if something happens to me, you'll check

170
00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:31.279
it out. I'm afraid of what
Bobby might do. End quote. I

171
00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:37.759
guess Robert went by Bobby. That's
less time anyone saw Kathy aside from Robert.

172
00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.639
According to Robert, he and Kathy
argued that night. He said Kathy

173
00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:46.960
wanted to go to their apartment in
the city instead of saying the house,

174
00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:52.519
because they were actually at a house
they had in South Salam hamlet of Westchester

175
00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.679
County, New York. Okay,
okay, and she wanted to go to

176
00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:01.399
the apartment in New York City,
so she dropped her off at the train

177
00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:07.639
station so she could catch the nine
fifteen train to Manhattan. Afterwards, he

178
00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.919
told the New York City Police Department
that he went for a walk. You

179
00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.159
know, I don't have an alibi. I'm just screaming my fucking head off

180
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.399
at her when she's at a party. He had a drink in a neighbor's

181
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.360
house, spoke with Kathy on a
pay phone when she returned to Manhattan apartment,

182
00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:26.480
and then he went to bed at
the other house, so she called

183
00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:31.519
him on a payphone, or he
called her on the most called her when

184
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:37.840
he thought she returned. Sure the
neighbors Robert had allegedly seen that night that

185
00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.759
was Bill and Ruth. Mayor later
testified that Robert this is gonna be surprised

186
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:48.159
live to police and he actually never
visited him that night the night she disappeared

187
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:54.519
surprise. Moreover, Ruth also testified
that Kathy had told her in private that

188
00:15:54.759 --> 00:16:00.240
Robert was abusing her, and Ruth
encouraged her to report it, but Kathy

189
00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.960
said she just was too afraid.
Before her disappearance, Kathy had made plans

190
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.559
to meet Gilberte at a pub in
Manhattan. I don't know exactly what day

191
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:14.919
it was, but Kathy never showed. Gilberte was worried, and that's when

192
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:19.360
the police got called several times over
the next few days after Gilberte didn't hear

193
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:25.279
from her or see her. On
February fourth, Kathy's college, someone from

194
00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:30.559
the college administration called Robert and said
that Kathy had called in sick on February

195
00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:36.519
first and had missed a full week
of classes. So on February fifth,

196
00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:41.960
I mean basically, like we're really
concerned, Robert reported his wife missing.

197
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:47.639
Detectives wondered why Robert had waited so
long to report his wife missing, and

198
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.639
he was very calm when he explained
that they just spent lots of days apart.

199
00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:57.679
She was always working and studying and
at the hospital, and he was

200
00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:02.480
too busy with his girlfriend, and
yeah, he had your prudence. Yeah.

201
00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:07.039
Police described Robert as completely calm and
unmoved, as if he was on

202
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:12.480
phase that his wife had been missing
for several days. Something else that was

203
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:18.000
weird was when he reached out to
the press soon afterwards, and he offered

204
00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:22.359
a thousand dollars reward for information leading
to her safe return. However, he

205
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:30.000
then reduced the amount, stating that
the original article had made a mistake.

206
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:34.079
What a cheap fucker what right?
Wait? Wait wait wait wait wait in

207
00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:37.799
a wrong amount? What a thousand? Fuck? Is that it's only five

208
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.359
hundred? Yeah, forget that one
hundred thousand. And it's obvious his wife

209
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:47.440
didn't mean much to him if he
was willing to reduce the reward, right,

210
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.920
and he never reached out to her
family, oh man, Instead,

211
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:56.200
Cathy's family, who had no idea
who she was missing, found out about

212
00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.720
her disappearance in the newspaper. That's
terrible. Due to his high profile status,

213
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:07.319
Kathy's disappearance and Robert himself game a
lot of media attention. Yeah,

214
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:14.200
Luckily for him, his longtime friend
Susan Burman stepped in as basically an unofficial

215
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:19.119
spokeswoman and made statements and answered questions
on his behalf. Because he's Koku.

216
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.400
I mean, he would have said
something stupid like that. Rewards reduced even

217
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:27.839
more. Oh yeah, he's so
stupid. Yeah yeah. After the article

218
00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:33.720
was mistake, yeah, oh yeah, it gets better. Oh yeah,

219
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:40.079
you know the story better than I
can do. Three weeks after Robert reported

220
00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:45.839
Kathy missing, who was already trying
to basically eraser in their Manhattan apartment,

221
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:51.160
he threw out almost all her belongings
into the garbage shoot because that's not suspicious

222
00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:55.960
that and it led to the buildings
incinerator and the building manager had to ask

223
00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.240
him to stop because he was clogging
it off. Oh my god. He

224
00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:03.079
was throwing so much stuff throughout her
clothes, medical school books, jewelry,

225
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.559
pretty much everything that belonged to her. Oh yeah, She's not with us

226
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:11.599
anymore, for sure, and he
knows it exactly. Kathy's friends they ended

227
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:15.960
up taking her disappearance into their own
hands, and they broke into Kathy and

228
00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:22.559
Robert's South Salem home and the hopes
they might find maybe her or find clues

229
00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.400
to her whereabouts. When they arrived, they found that the house had been

230
00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:33.200
turned upside down, Kathy's mail had
been ripped open, her belongings were stuffed

231
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:40.640
into garbage bags, and interestingly enough, they found an itinerary of everything Robert

232
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:45.200
had done on the night of Kathy's
disappearance, as well as the day's prior.

233
00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.240
When they turned it into the police, they said, this isn't normal

234
00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:55.240
behavior for an innocent man, but
rather for someone that was guilty of something

235
00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:00.200
who wanted to keep track of his
lies. Oh yes, shady, shady.

236
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.839
While the New York Police explored leads
in questioned Robert, it didn't go

237
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:11.599
unnoticed that higher ups were not really
pushing to solve this case. The investigation

238
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.599
only been going on for a few
weeks when it already began winding down.

239
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.480
Which this is a whole high profile
case, and you would think somebody from

240
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:26.680
the Dirt's family being missing would be
continue to be a priority, but it

241
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:32.640
seemed like the Dirt's family didn't really
care about it, and the police didn't

242
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:37.119
either. The Dirt's family wasn't cooperating
with the police either. By the way,

243
00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:42.200
Robert refused interviews, polygraph tests,
and even answering like the most basic

244
00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:48.640
questions. But he did give several
interviews to reporters. Yeah, but don't

245
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.240
talk to the police. To the
press. No, he claimed that Kathy

246
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:57.880
just ran off with another man,
took nothing with her, No, nothing,

247
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.240
not a dollar and yeah, he's
so dramatical. School didn't decide to

248
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.599
finish yet didn't finish it, just
just laughed. Since there was really no

249
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:15.119
evidence about Kathy's disappearance, there wasn't
any leads. The police actually did speak

250
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:21.200
to some psychics, oh okay,
and they did have suspicions that Robert might

251
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.039
be involved. I mean he lured
up right away, which is what you

252
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:29.680
do. That's what you do.
Look guilty, No, protect yourself.

253
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:33.240
Got the best criminal attorneys in New
York. But eventually this case, when

254
00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:41.200
cold solely Cathy's disappearance turned into nothing
more than a cold case file. After

255
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:47.759
a period of morning, Robert returned
to work in the family business. The

256
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:53.759
following year lazy ass, this time
in New York City, He took a

257
00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:59.200
big stop from the social scene he
once dominated. He ended up only keeping

258
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.720
very close circle of friends, including
Susan Burman. In the next ten years

259
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:08.079
to follow it, or roughly around
that amount of time, he tried to

260
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:14.200
reinvent himself and he got a new
girlfriend. Her name was Deborah Lee Sheraton.

261
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:18.319
She was an ambitious New York City
real estate broker. He sold at

262
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:23.480
South Salem home that he and Cathy
shared an unbeknownst to Kathy's family, he

263
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:30.319
filed for divorce from his still missing
wife, claiming spousal abandonment. Wow,

264
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.519
but before I tell you more about
this story and the murders to come,

265
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:48.359
We're going to take a quick break. Robert allegedly started behaving oddly at work.

266
00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:53.000
No, okay, this includes urinating
and trash cans. That's fucking odd.

267
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.200
Like you and I are in this
office and you piss in a trash

268
00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:00.240
can. I'm going to be upset. I'm going to be concerned. Learned

269
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.839
about you. Come on now,
Really, he was next in line to

270
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:07.160
take over the family's company. I
mean I had to go bad. I

271
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.400
know, but I've never seen you
do that yet. No, not yet,

272
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:12.640
and I never will. Okay good. Robert was supposed to be next

273
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:17.079
in line to take over his family's
company, but his father ended up appointing

274
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:21.279
his younger brother, Douglas in that
position. In nineteen ninety four, Robert

275
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:25.720
accused his brother of stealing the company
from him, which caused a big riff

276
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:29.839
between Robert and the rest of his
family. He would then spend the next

277
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.119
decade traveling as a vaga behind He's
like, fuck it, fuck it.

278
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:38.319
I'm sure he still had access to
money. In nineteen ninety nine, after

279
00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:44.079
the New York Police Department received a
bogus tip about the location of Cathy's body,

280
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:48.960
police in Westchester reopened Kathy Durst case. This time they were looking at

281
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:56.319
as a homicide. Police search the
Durst's home in South Salem. It was

282
00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.200
nearby a lake, but I mean
they didn't find anything. I mean,

283
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:04.640
twenty years later or something. In
two thousand, the investigation became public.

284
00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:10.559
People knew about it. A month
later, Robert married Debrah, his longtime

285
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:15.200
girlfriend. It was kind of a
quick ceremony, officiated by a single rabbi

286
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.799
picked out of the phone book.
It's reported that they never lived together over

287
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.880
the course of their marriage, and
that they've went years without speaking, which

288
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:26.599
might sound weird. I mean,
why I get married to begin with,

289
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:30.400
right? According to Robert, Susan
Burman called him in December of two thousand

290
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:36.400
to tell him the police wanted to
interview her about Kathy's disappearance. At that

291
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:40.839
time, Susan was living alone at
her home in Benedict Canyon, Los Angeles,

292
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.880
and she was working as a journalist
and an author. A sop called

293
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:52.039
Mafia Princess. Susan wrote about her
family's ties to gangsters, specifically her father,

294
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.680
David Davey Burman. I guess he
was some Las Vegas mob boss.

295
00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.680
Okay, I'm gonna give you a
little background on Susan and Robert. They

296
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:07.680
became friends after meeting as students at
UCLA. They bonded over their trauma.

297
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.160
When Susan was twelve, her father
died on the operating table. Oh damn,

298
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.480
and her mother died of a drug
overdose a year later. Oh that's

299
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:21.119
terrible. Robert talked about how he
believed his mom committed suicide, and Susan

300
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:25.680
McCall Robert, her little brother the
little brother she never had. She was

301
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:30.039
really protective of him. When she
got married in nineteen eighty four, it

302
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.640
was Robert who walked her down the
aisle. Oh that's cute. No,

303
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:40.119
it's not cute. Okay. The
two had been nearly inseparable for decades when

304
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:44.759
Kathy disappeared. However, she and
Robert ended up drifting apart. After Kathy's

305
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:49.559
disappearance, Susan ended up leaving New
York and settled in California, where she

306
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:55.079
wrote two books. And I told
you about her life is a mob boss's

307
00:25:55.200 --> 00:26:00.799
daughter. She acted like she had
a really glamorous life and led people to

308
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.640
believe that, but that really wasn't
accurate. In August of two thousand,

309
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:08.920
Susan was really short on money and
facing in fiction. In a desperate attempt,

310
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:14.359
that's when she reached out to Robert
asking for money. She didn't know

311
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:17.200
how to get a hold of him, so she left a voicemail on a

312
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:22.200
phone he kept in New York without
even speaking together. He gifted her fifty

313
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.799
thousand, and she used that to
pay her debts and get herself back on

314
00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:29.359
track. Wow, that was nice. Oh, I would have called him

315
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:34.200
a long time ago. Yeah,
no shit, Robert chucking in this obviously

316
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.559
helped Susan a lot. Yeah.
The two eventually talked on the phone,

317
00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.799
and Susan started her life started getting
better. She got hired to do a

318
00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:47.039
couple of new projects, and now
Robert was back in her life. Everything

319
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:51.680
was good until she got contacted by
the Westchester DA, who informed her Cathy's

320
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.519
case was being reopened as a homicide
and they wanted to talk to her.

321
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.519
After all, she had never been
interviewed in the initial investigation. She never

322
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:06.319
been interviewed, so the interview had
been arranged to take place sometime early in

323
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:11.079
the new year, And of course
this interaction between the DA and Susan made

324
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:17.279
front page in the news because you've
got the Durst family. On December nineteenth,

325
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:19.960
Susan spoke with her friend. This
was an actress named Kim Langford,

326
00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:26.279
telling her that she had the story
of a lifetime and had information that was

327
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:33.160
going to blow the top off of
things. Oh, Kim just assumed that

328
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.160
this information one was related to I
don't know, another mob story something like

329
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:42.079
that in Vegas. Susan also told
Kim she had recently spoken to a psychic

330
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:48.599
who told her that she was destined
to die a violent death. Oh my

331
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:55.000
god, what a horrible thing to
find out. What excuse me? Usually

332
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:57.079
psychics only tell you good things,
like why would you tell me that I

333
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:04.200
know here to die of very violent? Deftly? Okay, well shit,

334
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:08.960
I'm just gonna go figure out a
way to go peacefully if that's my future,

335
00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.920
And the psychic said it would involve
a gun. On Christmas even two

336
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.640
thousand, police were called to Susan's
home after neighbors reported that her dogs were

337
00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:25.960
running loose on the street and barking
wildly. Police arrived at Susan's home and

338
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.920
they found the back door was a
little bit open. In the doorway of

339
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:37.720
one of her bedrooms was fifty five
year old Susan. She'd been shot execution

340
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.519
style with one bullet to the back
of the head. There's no signs in

341
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:48.200
fourth century, and nothing was stolen. Police determined she'd been dead a day

342
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:52.519
or two before the body was discovered, so maybe the dogs eventually just ran

343
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:57.160
out. Some people speculated was a
mob hit in retaliation for all that information.

344
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:03.119
She was writing in books of people
on her upcoming project. But when

345
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:08.039
police learned she was supposed to talk
with the dam that seems suspicion seems awfully

346
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:14.279
suspicious. It didn't help matters that
Robert flew out from New York City to

347
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:18.480
San Francisco, California, on December
nineteenth, which is near where she lived,

348
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:23.160
and then flew back to New York
City from San Francisco on the twenty

349
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:30.519
third, the day before Susan's body
was found. After Susan's body was found,

350
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:37.440
the LAPD received an anonymous letter postmarked
December twenty third. The letter was

351
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:44.559
addressed to the Beverly Hills Police with
Beverly misspelled. Inside. The letter had

352
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:53.279
Susan's address with one word cadaver.
What's crazy? What is this? It

353
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:59.400
was obviously a letter letting the police
know there was a body there. Yeah,

354
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.519
what the fire? I didn't know
this, Yeah, this is crazy.

355
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:07.519
As it turns out, Susan did
have some information to share about Kathy.

356
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:12.559
According to her friend Linda Opps,
Susan had told her that she was

357
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:19.240
the one that called Kathy's college on
February first, and allegedly said she was

358
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:26.079
sick. She pretended to be Kathy. According to the prosecuting attorney, Robert

359
00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.880
asked Susan to cover for him.
When Kathy had first disappeared by posing as

360
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:36.960
Kathy and then calling in sick Oh. They theorized that Robert had killed Susan

361
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:40.799
after discovering because it's in the paper. Yeah, she's going to meet with

362
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:45.720
the DA and he was really afraid
that she turned them in. A woman

363
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:51.400
named Miriam Barnes that's one of Susan's
close friends, ended up testifying later that

364
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:55.279
Susan called her and told her that
she'd done a favorite for Robert, but

365
00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:00.039
was nervous about sharing it. She
told Miriam that anything happened to her,

366
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.680
Robert did it. Robert was questioned
about her murder, but he was never

367
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:10.960
charged. Robert didn't even end up
attending the funeral, and this is supposedly

368
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.839
his close, oldest, dearest friend. In April of two thousand, Robert

369
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:22.440
escaped the city to avoid police inquiries, and he started renting a three hundred

370
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.039
dollars a month apartment in Galston,
Texas, where no one knew where he

371
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:33.599
was. This isn't like a billionaire's
son and three hundred dollars a month because

372
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.039
he's trying to just escape, you
know, they had to be a shithole,

373
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.839
right, Yes, I mean three
hundred dollars a month. Well,

374
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:45.720
yes, okay, I mean he
had to be right. While living in

375
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:52.200
Galveston, he pretended to be a
mute woman named Dorothy's Signer, a name

376
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:57.480
he took from a high school friend. Likely Yeah, okay, mute,

377
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:04.759
what is this shit? Yeah?
I can't with people. Sometimes. He

378
00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:09.000
was spotted wearing women's wigs around town, visiting the library to look up articles

379
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:15.039
on himself. God, I would
a narcissist. He posed as a mute

380
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:19.960
woman because he had a really distinctive
voice, and he thought that it would

381
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:24.960
be very easily identifiable by someone which
is mute. He's not gonna say anything.

382
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:30.640
That'd be hard. It would be
hard. On September thirtieth, two

383
00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.960
thousand and one, a man fishing
with his son in Galveston Bay discovered a

384
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:38.400
human torso floating in the water.
They called the police and searched the area,

385
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:43.640
and they found some garbage bags.
Each bag had a total of twelve

386
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:50.599
dismembered body parts in the bags.
They also found an outer packaging for a

387
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:54.359
bow saw, a receipt for garbage
bags, cloths, and a newspaper that

388
00:32:54.440 --> 00:33:00.359
contained a handwritten note with an address
two two one three Avenue UK, Gross

389
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:06.960
Yeah at the address. Officers searched
the garbage cans around the area and they

390
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:10.319
found more black garbage bag similar to
the ones that they were covered inside some

391
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:16.079
dumpsters and they found an empty trash
bag box, a four inch pairing knife,

392
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:22.599
and a twenty two caliber shellcasing and
of in fiction notice addressed to of

393
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:27.799
someone named Morris Black. Morris was
one of the tenants in the shared home

394
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:32.599
on Avenue K. He'd been a
veteran with a kind of a murky past.

395
00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:37.839
He was a strange from his family
and his ex wife. He lived

396
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:45.160
a nomadic life and he occasionally reached
out to someone, but he was just

397
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:50.880
pretty what's the word I'm thinking of? He kept to himself. Ended up

398
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:53.839
landing in Texas sometime in the mid
nineties and he was arrested nine eight for

399
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:58.279
threatening to blow up a utility company. Oh wow. Because he was upset

400
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:05.960
about his lifestyle. Made up really
hard for them to track the timeline of

401
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:10.360
him and what he'd done in the
past. There was just decades without any

402
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:16.039
documentation. Those in Galveston who had
met Morris described with miss a grumpy old

403
00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:21.679
man who was suspicious of everyone,
paranoid you know, I'm prone to screaming

404
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:24.559
outburst. He used to live in
New York City but seemed to have gone

405
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:29.880
off the grid. In eighty two, it was discovered that this Morris guy

406
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.199
had one hundred and thirty thousand dollars
in an out of state bank account,

407
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:38.599
despite not having a job at least
on record for decades. He'd been living

408
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:43.840
on this money and all his friends
and he didn't have many had no idea

409
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:49.039
he had any money. And now
he was missing. Oh, he's gone,

410
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.079
he's gone, He's gone. Police
were able to execute a search warrant

411
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:58.320
for Morris's home based on the fact
the address was found yes with a torso.

412
00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:02.880
Once inside, they discovered blood everywhere
in the bathroom, sink, the

413
00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:07.840
kitchen, and the drains. When
they sprayed lumin all throughout the apartment,

414
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:14.920
it lit up like Christmas walls,
floors, drag marks man that led from

415
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:19.840
Morris's apartment to the apartment across the
hall, whoops, across the law and

416
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:22.880
that's where well, we don't know
the mute woman lives. How did you

417
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:29.880
know that belonged to Dorothy Signer,
a mute old woman whose neighbors didn't know

418
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.880
very much about this woman, except
she probably looked like an ugly man.

419
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:38.880
She looked like an old man.
She was rarely seen, had been known

420
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:44.760
to travel frequently, always kept her
shades drawn, and always kept to herself.

421
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:47.719
Investigators got a court order to enter, and then they found blood everywhere

422
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.360
or there too, shit in Dorothy's
kitchen. There had been several cuts in

423
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:58.320
the linoleum floor, and when officers
pulled the linoleum bag, they discovered pools

424
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:00.639
or dry blood. I don't mean, what, what a fucking mess?

425
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:06.360
What is this? Yeah? Like
Morris Guy's got one hundred and thirty thousand

426
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.320
dollars, But you know I was
living in a probably three hundred dollars a

427
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:15.639
month apartment. I got a mute
woman and blood going between the apartments everywhere

428
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:24.280
everywhere. They've so crazy. This
apartment hadn't been cleaned as thoroughly as Morris's.

429
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:28.800
There was dry blood splatter all over
the place. There was a pairing

430
00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:34.480
knife, a cleaver, a handsaw, oh geez god, a pistol.

431
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:38.480
What are the bigs they recovered from
the water. It was empty and it

432
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:45.440
had this large rip in it.
Officers concluded that that was the one that

433
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:54.440
contained missing Morris's head man because the
body was headless was Morris's and headless and

434
00:36:54.519 --> 00:37:00.000
that was the only part not recovered
geez, and to them that likely contained

435
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:05.760
the key evidence in this case because
they believed that Morris was probably shot and

436
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:12.440
had based on the rest of the
body parts. They compared the fingerprints from

437
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:16.159
Morris's time in the military to those
body and that's how they ended up identifying

438
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:22.400
them. A medical examiner determined that
the body parts were covered were from seventy

439
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:25.400
one year old Morris Black. The
medical examiner would later testify that the person

440
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:30.199
who cut his body up knew what
kind of instrument to use on what bone

441
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:34.199
and what muscle and what part of
the body, and it was a work

442
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:38.760
of someone that had done this before. Oh shit, Oh man, it's

443
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:45.320
fucking disgusting. Dorothy's signer was now
missing too, and police turned their attention

444
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:49.960
to finding Dorothy. They had been
able to determine that Morris was likely killed

445
00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:55.199
in his apartment, but then dismembered
in Dorothy's. But why, why is

446
00:37:55.239 --> 00:38:00.159
this happening? It all started to
make sense when they to receipt in the

447
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:07.519
buildings trash. It was from a
local optometrist and it had Robert's name on

448
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:12.119
it. Well, now that's weird. Yeah, without information, they thought,

449
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:17.960
okay, perhaps this mute woman,
mute, older woman might be Robert

450
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:22.880
Durst. Yeah, how strange,
very weird. Look what the hell?

451
00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:25.079
I would just be like, what
the fuck is this? Yeah? Fuck

452
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:30.519
is this? Neighbors couldn't recall seeing
Dorothy around the time that Morris disappeared,

453
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:37.440
although they did recall seeing a man
floating garbage bags into a Honda CRV he

454
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:42.880
left his way at home. It's
like what They hadn't recognized him, but

455
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.159
noticed that he did make several trips
in and out of Dorothy's apartment. Police

456
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:50.920
took down a description the vehicle and
they put a bulow out. They also

457
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:54.039
looked in the national database to try
to get any information they could about miss

458
00:38:54.079 --> 00:39:00.840
Signer. Thankfully, they found Miss
Signer alive and well. But she said,

459
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:05.840
I don't live in Galveston, Texas, and I'm not mute. When

460
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:08.719
they asked if she knew Robert Durst, she replied that she she did.

461
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:14.320
They attended high school together back in
the fifties, and she was very confused.

462
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:17.400
I mean, she hadn't spoken to
him in decades and had no idea

463
00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:22.159
why there was an apartment runned using
her name in social security number? Wow,

464
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:28.559
her kid? Yet the hell is
this? And by the way,

465
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:30.760
there's a body in the apartment you've
been running, or there's a blood in

466
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:35.599
the apartment you've been running? What
what I know? I'd be like,

467
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:39.760
somebody needs to sit me down,
and I'm very confused. Seven days later,

468
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:45.000
a vehicle that was matching the description
for the Bolo was found and they

469
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:50.320
pulled up the driver and they searched
the car. Inside they saw a bosaw

470
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:53.679
and blood in the trunk of the
vehicle, and that's when they arrested fifty

471
00:39:53.840 --> 00:40:00.119
eight year old driver Robert Durst October
ninth, two thousand and one, and

472
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.840
they charged him with the murder of
Morris Black. He paid three thousand dollars

473
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:08.920
bail and then he left Texas and
went on the run. He failed to

474
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:14.920
appear to his court date and he
was declared fugitive. He ended up renting

475
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:22.840
a car in Mobile, Alabama under
the name Morris Black. What what this

476
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:25.880
guy is? Too much? Too
much? Then, in another really strange

477
00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:30.840
twist, he was found and arrested
in a Wagman's grocery store in Bath,

478
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:37.199
Pennsylvania, he was accused of shoplifting
a six dollar chicken sandwich. Really dude,

479
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:42.320
some bandages in a newspaper, even
though he had thirty eight thousand dollars

480
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.480
in cash on him on hill on
him. What the hell? He had

481
00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:52.760
two loaded guns, a Medicaid card, and a driver's license belonging to Morris

482
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:58.199
Black. But this time he cheaved
off all his hair and his eyebrows because

483
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:04.679
that's not his all. I mean, at first they didn't really recognize him.

484
00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:07.440
It was only after he was arrested
and they ran a social Security number

485
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:12.920
when he's arrested for the chicken sandwich
that they realized who they had arrested.

486
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:16.960
In January of two thousand and two, he returned to Texas to see on

487
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:22.199
trial for Morris Black's murder. According
to Robert's testimony, he came home on

488
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:27.199
September twenty eight, two thousand and
one, to find Morris in his apartment,

489
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:31.480
angry because Morris had a key to
his apartment, Robert hadn't been expecting

490
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:37.880
him. He said he immediately suspected
Morris of taking a gun that he'd stored

491
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:45.239
in his oven. That's a fantastic
place for a gun. What is this

492
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:52.039
shit. When Robert asked him,
where's my gun, Morris reportedly stood and

493
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:55.000
pointed it at Robert. Robert clean
that he grabbed the gun and the two

494
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:58.840
men fell to the ground, and
that's when the gun went off. He

495
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:01.199
said. He never even touched the
trigger, and that's when Morris got shot

496
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:05.679
in the hut. So what do
you do? I mean, you dismember

497
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:09.360
him? And he tried to help
his neighbor, okay by going to another

498
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:14.159
neighbor's apartment, but no one answered, so he went back to his apartment.

499
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:15.639
I mean, and then you kind
of just like, what do you

500
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:20.239
do? You gotta take matters into
your own hands. So he grabbed a

501
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.280
bottle of Jack Daniels and, you
know, dismembered Morris's body because that's what

502
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:27.960
I would do before dumping in in
the Galveston Bay. I mean, you

503
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:30.679
wouldn't do the tried. He knocked
on the neighbor's door. No one answered

504
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:34.119
answer. He's like, well,
fun, what am I gonna have to

505
00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:37.039
cut the body? I guess somebody
have to dispose of it, like mean,

506
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:39.159
it was an accident, but no
one's gonna believe me. Well,

507
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:44.280
he said, because of you know, the suspicions of the past. Yeah,

508
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:47.760
no one would believe him. And
the other bodies I cut up private

509
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:52.199
investigator, ended up Pie's and together
a connection between Robert and Morris that went

510
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:59.000
way back, because remember Morris had
all that money that's right on his account,

511
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:02.440
but had no job. That's right. Morris Black had a brother named

512
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:07.480
Harry, and the two of them
owned a construction business in New York back

513
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:12.679
in the eighties. According to family
members, it had been funded by the

514
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:19.800
Durst organization, specifically Roberts. There
you go. Harry had passed in two

515
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:22.639
thousand and three, but his wife
had said that when he learned that Morris

516
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:27.960
had been murdered, he was really
concerned he would be next. You can

517
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:30.079
see why because you got this freak
on the run too. When that's why

518
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:35.320
his wife said, well, he
had dark secrets. I'm wondering, like,

519
00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:37.840
if he's got a construction company,
what about her way to dispose of

520
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:45.079
a body? Right? Why?
And then yeah, why didn't Morris have

521
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:47.800
all that cash exactly? I mean, I don't know, I don't know.

522
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:53.360
I'm I'm not saying anything. He
got bribed to do something with the

523
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:57.519
body. But anyway, his wife
told the private investor that she believed the

524
00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:02.400
brothers knew something about Cathy's disappearance.
Prosecutors believe that Robert murdered Morris when he

525
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:07.159
found out his true identity, and
he killed him out of fear let he'd

526
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:14.000
be charged with Cathy's murder. They
believed that Robert had specifically chosen Galveston and

527
00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:21.800
he arrived concealing his identity as an
old mute woman in a lowcome area next

528
00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:24.679
to the man that he used to
fund work for him. Like it was

529
00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:29.199
intentional that he did. Yeah,
it was intentional for Robert. Why,

530
00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:32.239
I know, it's so weird,
Like why would you give an apartment across

531
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:37.400
the hall from someone you possibly allegedly
bribe because he's nuts. Yeah. In

532
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.880
his trial, because he did have
a trial, Robert hired the best criminal

533
00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:45.559
defense attorneys the money could buy.
Lasted two months, and despite amount of

534
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:52.880
evidence, he was acquitted. I
love the American justice system sometimes sometimes you

535
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:57.719
know, sometimes it works, sometimes
it sometimes it doesn't. Needless to say,

536
00:44:57.800 --> 00:45:00.360
him being acquitted was pretty shocked.
I don't know if I told you.

537
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:05.960
After his original bail jumping, he
was put on a three billion dollars

538
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:10.760
bail, but that was found to
be unconstitutional. It was a little excessive,

539
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:15.159
I guess. He did get found
guilty of tampering with evidence and bail

540
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:20.639
jumping, and he got sixty months
for it's a felony. In October of

541
00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:23.679
two thousand and four, just as
he was about to be paroled, Pennsylvania

542
00:45:23.719 --> 00:45:29.599
authorities charged Robert with weapon possession stemming
from his time when he was on the

543
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:32.480
run. In July of two thousand
and five, he was released from federal

544
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:37.039
prison and sent to Texas to serve
parole. I don't really even know.

545
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:42.440
I can't even keep track evolve all
this shit, but Robert couldn't stay in

546
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.559
one place. In December of two
thousand and five, he was arrested for

547
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:52.320
a parole violation for making unauthorized trips
to Galveston. He got caught after visiting

548
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:55.840
a Texas mall where he happened to
run into the judge who was presiding over

549
00:45:55.880 --> 00:46:00.639
the murder Trialous, what are the
odds of? What are the odds?

550
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:06.559
I've never run into a judge in
my right, And yeah, that's crazy.

551
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:09.119
In February two thousand and six,
he was released from prison and his

552
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:14.480
paroles supervision ended. Nine months later, and he was a freeman. Four

553
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:19.360
years later, Robert's infamous deeds were
made into a movie. It was called

554
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:23.480
All Good Things. It was kind
of loosely about his life. After the

555
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:29.440
movie was released, he contacted the
director praising him about the movie, and

556
00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:31.960
they kept in contact for two years. They did they were baby kame friends.

557
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:38.079
Eventually, Robert agreed to be interviewed
for an HBO documentary series about his

558
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:42.960
life, even though his lawyer was
like, don't do that. It was

559
00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:47.039
called The Jinks, which I didn't
see, The Life and Deaths of Robert

560
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:52.760
Durst. It was good. I
recommend it. I recommended for anybody who

561
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:59.320
hasn't seen it. He denied all
responsibility for Susan and Cathy's deaths, disappearances.

562
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:04.880
They do know during the interview,
the interviewer, I think the interviewer's

563
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:07.559
name was Jarecki or something like that, has to take a break. Yes,

564
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:10.719
this is at the very end,
and he's just what mumbling underneath this

565
00:47:10.760 --> 00:47:15.079
breath, the assholes still Mike.
I think he goes to the bathroom.

566
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:20.920
You can barely hear him. But
that didn't mean no one hurt him because

567
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:25.079
he had a hot Mike and as
lawyer promptly walked out to him and told

568
00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:29.960
him, you're you know, they
just started everything you said, and Robert

569
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:35.920
starts to say something like what he
said was harmless, and he said,

570
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:38.519
did not tell the whole truth.
Nobody tells the whole truth. And that

571
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:42.920
same interview, Robert was asked the
following do you have anything to do with

572
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:45.000
the death of your wife? He
said, I don't know that she's dead,

573
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:49.880
Okay, yeah, and then he
was asked, do you think that

574
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.559
it's possible she's alive now? And
he said it's possible, but not likely.

575
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:58.360
With the help of Susan's stepson,
Jarecki, was able to produce a

576
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:05.480
letter written by Robert had the exact
same misspelling of Beverly like the Beverly Hills

577
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:12.840
letter from like the cadaver letter.
Not to mention the handwriting was uncanny ly

578
00:48:13.159 --> 00:48:17.039
similar to that tip. So Direcki
said, Hey, do you want to

579
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:21.320
have another interview Robert? And He's
like, yes, absolutely, of course

580
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:25.119
I would, because I'm a narcissist. So Direci brought out both the letters

581
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:30.960
and confronted Robert with the similarities.
Robert had a hard time himself, started

582
00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:37.880
having some problems start burping uncontrollably as
he answers answers the question. Once it's

583
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:43.239
evident that he had no excuse for
the similarities in the letter. They took

584
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:46.280
an break. During the break,
Robert then goes to the bathroom and he's

585
00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:51.760
got a hot mike once again.
Yes, stuff, he's an idiot,

586
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.880
and he says the following. There
it is, you're caught. You're right,

587
00:48:54.920 --> 00:49:00.199
of course, but you can't imagine
arrest him. I don't know it's

588
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:02.800
in the house. Oh I want
this. What a disaster. He was

589
00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:07.760
right, I was wrong. And
the burping. I'm having difficulty with a

590
00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:12.000
question. What the hell did I
do? Killed them all? Of course?

591
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:15.360
What the fuck is that, Tanya? He killed them all of course.

592
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:19.039
In the interview, he admits he's
lied to the police about the night

593
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:22.400
Kathy went missing. He said that
he told the police he dropped her off

594
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.039
the train station and you know,
went to the neighbors. But you know

595
00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:29.239
that wasn't true. That was all. It was all bullshit. The day

596
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:34.679
before the final documentary episode aired March
fourteenth, twenty fifteen, Robert was arrested

597
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:38.159
on a warrant charging him with the
first degree murder of Susan Berman. He

598
00:49:38.199 --> 00:49:44.639
was charged in Louisiana with phony weapon
possession and he was denied bail because he's

599
00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:47.000
a flight risk. He accepted a
plea deal on the charges and was sentenced

600
00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:52.239
to seven years in prison. Then
in November of twenty sixteen, he got

601
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:55.400
transferred to Los Angeles County Dale to
await trial for the murder of Susan.

602
00:49:55.960 --> 00:50:00.119
During questioning, he tells the prosecutor
he was high on math when he was

603
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:07.199
a host and agreed to the interview
for the James Really the next year,

604
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:10.480
Cathy was declared legally dead at the
request for a family. The trial for

605
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:15.079
Susan's murder began on March for twenty
twenty, but, as we know,

606
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:19.920
because of COVID, it got halted
for fourteen months in May of twenty twenty

607
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:24.039
one. The case resumed on September
seventeenth. It took the jury three days

608
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:28.840
and they found him guilty the first
degree murder of Susan, as well as

609
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:31.480
lying in wait and killing a witness. Less than a month later, the

610
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:37.320
Los Angeles judge sentenced him to life
in prison without the possibility of parl That

611
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:43.480
same month, the Westchester County,
New York DA's office announced that a grand

612
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:49.679
jury would be impaneled to hear witness
testimony and evidence in Cathy's disappearance. In

613
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:53.800
late October, Robert Tessapasit for COVID
name his hospitalized. They didn't think he'd

614
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:59.360
lived through the indictment, so the
state investigator, believing Robert may not live

615
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:02.880
enough to be indicted long enough to
be indicted, fouled a criminal complaint charging

616
00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:07.559
him with Kathy's death. On November
first, twenty twenty one, Robert was

617
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:14.320
indicted. He was by the Westchester
County Grand jury on second green murder charges

618
00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:19.360
of Kathy, and he was a
waiting trial, that is until he went

619
00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:24.159
into cardiac rest in California, San
Joaquin General Hospital and died on January tenth.

620
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:28.960
That's a shame. Twenty twenty two. Wow, this story is.

621
00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:32.840
It's so crazy. That's why everybody
tells it because it's fucking nuts. It's

622
00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:37.440
nuts. He was nuts, clearly, clearly. Well, thanks to Leah,

623
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:42.199
thanks Tanya, and thanks Tara for
helping us with this one. And

624
00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:45.559
if you'd like to take over,
Tan, you go ahead. If you

625
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:49.239
would like to see more and I
see our sources, you can go to

626
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.079
our website Crimes and Consequences dot com. You can find that information there about

627
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:57.840
becoming a Patreon member. And becoming
a Patreon member you get our weekly episodes,

628
00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:01.559
add free and early release. You
can go to patreon dot com slash

629
00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:06.480
t nt crimes also to sign up, and if you listen to us on

630
00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:09.159
your Apple podcast app, you can
sign up there as well. They're the

631
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:14.159
same episodes, and what you get
by becoming a patren member or an Apple

632
00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:20.000
subscriber is you get another weekly episode
besides the ones week release and the weekly

633
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:22.280
one. Like I said, ad
free an early release. Yeah. You

634
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:28.519
can find us on social media at
Hardcore True Crime on Instagram and Facebook.

635
00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:31.880
And I think that's it all right
until our next episode. Don't kill each

636
00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:36.599
other and do please don't do this
weird shit. Yeah, thank you,

637
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:45.840
you're welcome. Bye,