WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:07.759 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. My goodness, 2 00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:14.080 being Franklin, where the only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, 3 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:18.559 and welcome to being frank We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm 4 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:21.320 your host, Frank Lebanon, and i'd like to thank you for joining us 5 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:26.359 on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation podcast, where no conversation is 6 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:31.559 out of bounds and all points of view are welcome. We are recording live 7 00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:35.799 to tape of the day before Independence Day, so it's July third. We 8 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:40.840 give you that for a little context, and we're so glad that you'll join 9 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:45.759 us for our celebration of Independence Day. Stony Point, New York is the 10 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:50.640 tiny town where we stream this podcast. It is located in Rockland County, 11 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:56.280 geographically the smallest county in the state outside of New York City, but relax 12 00:00:56.399 --> 00:01:00.119 in size, this county more than makes up for the amount of important in 13 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:03.920 American history, particularly Revolutionary War history, that occurred here. From the Old 14 00:01:03.959 --> 00:01:10.159 seventy six House in Japan, America's oldest tavern that hosted the likes of Washington 15 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:14.560 and Hamilton, to the Benedict Arnold Treason site to the Battle Stony Point, 16 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:19.359 one of the colonial's earliest and most important victories. Few places of any size 17 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:26.439 can match the sheer volume of Revolutionary War sites found in Rockland County in American 18 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.400 history in Rockland didn't end with the Revolution. Places like cam Shanks and Orangeburg 19 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:34.159 and the Piermont Pierre played vital roles in our victory in World War Two, 20 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:38.959 and there is so much more. So to get to it is. Joining 21 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:42.400 me now is my guest, former Rockland County Executive and former president of the 22 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:49.120 Rockland Historical Society, Scott Vanderhoff, as we celebrate our nation's birth by discussing 23 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:53.079 these places and the critical roles they played in our history. Welcome again, 24 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:56.920 Scott, Thank you for joining us once again here on being Frank am my 25 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.680 pleasure. Frank, good to see you. You know, before we get 26 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:07.760 into all the sites, and there were so many, and I do want 27 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:13.719 to spend as much time as possible on the sites. A couple of questions 28 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:17.080 I'd like to ask first to give a little contacts and relativity. First of 29 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:22.120 all, what does the fourth mean to you? What is most important about 30 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:27.639 this day to you? Oh? Gee, well, I mean I think 31 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:34.520 we forget the importance and the drama of folks saying, you know what, 32 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:39.240 we are independent. We're not going to be part of Great Britain and declare 33 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:44.120 itself. And on July fourth, seventeen seventy four, you probably know, 34 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:49.639 Frank, the Orangetown Resolutions right here in Rocklin County was a precursor to the 35 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.400 declaration of independence. So, I mean, I think it's just, you 36 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:57.120 know, for all the things that the country is, the goods, the 37 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:01.360 in betweens, what have you, I mean, aside from the fireworks and 38 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:07.360 you know, the fun. The idea that we suddenly said, you know 39 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:13.599 what, we're not going to be part of an overbearing country. We are 40 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.240 ourselves and we are independent. I mean, it's just so cool, I 41 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:21.639 think. Yeah, and the slogan we shall serve no King, which is 42 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:25.680 something we could discuss a little bit more in the second part of our conversation 43 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:30.560 after the break. I think it's important because you know, and they always 44 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:34.520 say, you know, American democracy is an experiment, one that we have 45 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:37.879 to actively participate in, and of course that's the vote. We'll talk a 46 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:42.680 little bit more about that, but you can see how in the two hundred 47 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.400 and forty plus years of this country. It's not a static place. We 48 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:52.879 evolve and we continue to evolve. Do you think Americans get that message and 49 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:58.599 they in tune with that? You know, that's a that's a very interesting 50 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:05.159 I think is one looks at the news, reads the news, looks at 51 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:11.800 your phone, looks at information. It's sometimes hard to know if Americans are 52 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:16.079 focusing on that or whether eggs prices have gone up. And it's not that 53 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:20.319 the eggs price hasn't gone up, it's just that sometimes I think, I 54 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:26.439 think we forget our history and in doing so, we jeopardize our future. 55 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:30.959 And by that, I mean we have to understand the importance of why we 56 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.199 are where we are and the good, bad, and and different. You 57 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:38.240 know, I mean we really we need to understand that. That's why I 58 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:42.160 think history is so important. It's not that you it's not for an exam, 59 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:47.240 you know, it's to understand the context, even on information and things 60 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:51.120 that we go through day by day today. And I want to get off 61 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:55.800 on a tangent because this is about some of the honoring some of the great 62 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:59.639 sites here in Rockland County, and we will get to them, but you 63 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:05.720 know, I think with that mind how important it is for Americans to focus 64 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:11.920 and to be involved. And again people always said, I mean, Franklin 65 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:15.079 always said, you know, if you don't work with your democracy, are 66 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.879 going to lose it. So I think that's an important message that we have 67 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:23.879 to give to people today. And part of reliving art history is to is 68 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.240 to say and part of it. And I think from some of the stories 69 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:31.319 that you'll present the great sacrifice that was made to get us to this point 70 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:38.399 today. Yeah, and I think fundamentally, you know, whether you whether 71 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:43.120 you decide to vote or not, is important. But it's not It's not 72 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:47.600 just the voting, it's the opportunity to vote that that really strikes one as 73 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:50.959 being critical. And if if someone doesn't take advantage of it, well, 74 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:58.199 so be it. But it's unfortunate because it's that opportunity to determine who will 75 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.240 lead and how we live from from our towns and villages to the nation. 76 00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:08.439 And we can thank July fourth, seventeen seventy six in large measure, and 77 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:13.199 before that, the Orangstoin Resolutions, before that talking about the need for independence, 78 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:15.959 and we're going to talk about the place where that occurred. One of 79 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:18.920 the most historic taverns, the oldest tavern in America, the seventy six House, 80 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:23.399 and Tapan we'll talk about in a minute. But while we're there, 81 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:28.160 we're talking about Tapan, why don't we start there. Great this incredible little 82 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:32.079 village in the southern, very southern tip of Rockland County, right on the 83 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:35.199 edge of Bergen County in New Jersey, so it's kind of right on the 84 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:39.959 border. But there are for such a small place, it's always struck me 85 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:45.879 as how many deeply historic sites there are there. Let's start with Washington's headquarters 86 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.720 and throughout the Hudson Valley because in general it was such an important strategic area. 87 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:56.680 Washington had many headquarters, including the DeWint House, which is in Tapan, 88 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.399 New York. So let's talk a little bit about that. Believe it's 89 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:03.920 still the oldest house structure still in existence in Rockland County. But tell us 90 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:09.199 about it, well, I mean it's certainly, and you know it's for 91 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.959 its importance. One wonders if people know enough about it. I mean, 92 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:17.319 it was built in seventeen hundred. And of course all of tap Han has 93 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.639 a series of things which we'll cover in a second here. But the Washington's 94 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:27.399 headquarters is particularly important. The building was built in seventeen hundred, but Washington 95 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:33.319 spent several times periods there and during the Revolutionary War. But what I think's 96 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:39.680 really fascinating is it is there in Tappan, New York that the British gave 97 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:43.879 up New York City and essentially the end of the war right in Tappan. 98 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:51.480 Fellow by the name of Sir Guy Charlton. Carlton gave up essentially in New 99 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:58.120 York City in Tappan, New York to Washington, George Washington, which ended 100 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:03.439 both the occupation and the end of the British and control of the United States 101 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:07.560 as we've come to know it. And in the first ever a salute to 102 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:13.120 the New Country took place in an area called the Tappan Z. That is 103 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:18.079 not the bridge, is the tap and Z area of the Hunt area that 104 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:20.399 time, when you get into arguments the name of the bridge, the whole 105 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:24.959 area is the Tappan called the Z and for good reason, because it's the 106 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:31.840 Tappan Tappan indigenous tribes that controlled much of Nayak and Tapan and what have you 107 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:37.360 in that area part of the Lenape, Indiana. But I'm moving off what 108 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:41.240 I wanted to say is the seventeen gun salute took place in the Hudson River 109 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:48.720 for the first time ever coming from Washington's headquarters. And of course, you 110 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:52.399 know a hop and a jump you get to the seventy six House, which 111 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.759 is a whole another story. Well, let's continue with Tapan And and it's 112 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:00.480 one of my favorite places. And if people have never been there, it's 113 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:05.320 literally a one stoplight town. That's what's amazing about how tiny it is. 114 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:11.240 But there's so much history there. There's from the seventy six House, which 115 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:16.240 was Maybe's tavern. We mentioned it's still a tavern. It still operates. 116 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:22.200 From the seventeen sixties. It housed Washington Hamilton, the signing of the Orangetown 117 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:28.639 Resolutions, the precursors, but also very famously held the trial of Major Andre 118 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.960 who was the British end of the Benedict Arnold Treeson plot. The church where 119 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:37.799 the trial took places across the street. That the wind house up just down 120 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:43.759 the block where Washington State and the execution site is again just up the block. 121 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:46.919 All with stop site. Well, it's a bill in Africa we got 122 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.960 to get to as well. Yeah, but the seventy sixth House was actually 123 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.159 the prison. The trial was held in the church, which is a different 124 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.279 church than was there, but in the same location. But the prison was 125 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:03.360 seventy six House where Midjor John Andre was by the way, you know, 126 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:09.120 I mean folks who maybe they forget, but John Andre was captured having left 127 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:13.200 Benedict Donald at West Point with the plans for West Point, he wanted to 128 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.919 give it to the British so that they could take over. Benedict Donald, 129 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:20.639 of course wanted to become a famous both English officer as well as having having 130 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.519 been American. Anyway, he was caught with and this is I never I'd 131 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:30.399 forgotten this, but Benedict Donald told him to wear right regular clothes because that 132 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.440 way his trip to New York City where the British were, he would not 133 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:35.759 be caught. Well, it be caught. It was caught, and he 134 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.080 was in regular clothes. And of course a lot of folks, including Alexander 135 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:46.360 Hamilton, after he was found guilty of holding those West Point plans, wanted 136 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:50.559 him to be shot as an officer of the British Army. George Washington absolutely 137 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:56.720 refused and said he was caught with his regular regular shows regular clothes on and 138 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:01.039 therefore was hung on a hill not far from the seventy sixth else right up 139 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:05.559 the road. So I mean, it's just interesting tidbits. By the way, 140 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:11.320 Major John Andre was very much liked by a number of Americans for different 141 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:16.519 reasons, but he also was one who helped map so they British in fact 142 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:22.759 attacked. This is important to get on briefly in a place called Baylor's Massacre. 143 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:24.960 If you get so perfect lead and yes, please take it there a 144 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:31.240 little. But it also how bitter this conflict was. People didn't realize. 145 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:33.360 I think they had this idea that was almost like a gentlemanly war. It 146 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.360 was far from that. Well, not this one particular. You can find 147 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:41.879 the you can find the note down there just over the border. Baylor's Massacre 148 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.399 occurred in the middle of the night, and the British came in slaughtered a 149 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:52.960 Aerican soldiers either fifteen or sixteen immediately killed in some other And that's important not 150 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:56.440 just because of the horror of it was allowed by John Andre's maps, who 151 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:01.480 was a map maker of all things that to begin with, But more importantly 152 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:09.440 what happened thereafter is that because of Baylor's massacre when med Anthony Wayne attacks Stony 153 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.399 Point. And that's another piece we'll get to We're going to get to you. 154 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:16.240 Yes, he actually said, you know, do not kill Let's not 155 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:20.480 kill them, Let's show them. Let's show these Brits who in fact of 156 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:26.120 the humane folks in this war. And he captured five hundred or more of 157 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:28.080 those soldiers who are at Stony Point. And of course Tony Point being one 158 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.240 of the great I'm sure you have on your list there, one of the 159 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:37.360 great places historic places in Rockland. Well, perfect segue. We wear the 160 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.320 southern tip of Rockland, and we said it's geographically a tiny place, the 161 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:46.399 smallest county outside of New York City, which is the city, county, 162 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:50.799 and state of New York Rockland, the smallest. Besides that said, we're 163 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:54.519 in the southern port, which is just on the northern end of Boergon County, 164 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:58.080 New Jersey. Let's move all the way to its northern extreme in Stony 165 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:03.840 Point. And we mentioned that that's where our signal emance from Stony Point, 166 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:07.360 New York. And again a very tiny little hamlet. Maybe more than one 167 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.879 stops but stop signing or stop light, but not manymore. And a little 168 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:18.440 known very important, very pitottle battle early in the war happened there at Stony 169 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:24.440 Point. Talk a little bit about that. Well, in fact it was 170 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:33.279 a British held fort. Mad Anthony Wayne and the team today midnight type of 171 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.960 raid, surprise the whole place. By the way, one of the fellows 172 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:43.679 who allowed that to take place, just diverted the guards just enough. He 173 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.759 was a friend of the guards. He was an African American who was apparently 174 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:52.559 working with them, and just averted them enough so they the Americans could take 175 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:54.960 over the fort, and in fact did take over the fort. You remembery 176 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:01.200 and folks will remember. The Hudson River becomes a very critical piece that Revolutionary 177 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.639 War. It's like the Great Ocean because there are no bridges. I mean, 178 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.799 you know, you get across by boat, and any place that you 179 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:13.000 can have a fortress of that sort, particularly given New York City was controlled 180 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:18.440 largely by the Britz, was very important. So yeah, it was a 181 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.320 big battle. As I say, we captured five hundred. There were deaths, 182 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:28.360 but the bayonets were stowed because of Baylor's massacre and the desire of met 183 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:31.360 Anthony Wayne. By the way, right next to if you go up there 184 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:35.200 to Stony Point nine. Encourage your viewers to do so. It's a great 185 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:39.039 place to tour. You know, it's nationally known. And right next to 186 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:45.559 Stony Point is a place called King's Ferry. King's Ferry is a little spot, 187 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:48.360 but if you look at a map you'll see the Stony Point right there 188 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:54.480 is one of the narrowest areas of the Hudson River, and that spot King's 189 00:14:54.519 --> 00:15:01.159 Ferry allowed French and colonial troops to march across ro County down through what is 190 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:07.000 now known as three h three Western Highway, down through what was two two 191 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.559 down to a place called Yorktown, from King's Ferry down to Yorktown, and 192 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.200 of course, in nineteen eighty or seventeen eighty one, the end of the 193 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:20.000 British I mean at the end of the battles. So just that little place, 194 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:26.120 that Stony Point and kings Ferry are very very important places in the history 195 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:30.759 of Rockland. Now you mentioned and I think it's a good time to segue. 196 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:37.039 You've mentioned the Lenapes, the local indigenous people here, and we've had 197 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:43.440 Chief Perry has been on and one of the things he mentions is they're key 198 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:50.600 in the Ramapop Pass and control of the Ramopop Pass and usage of it with 199 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:56.399 Native American guides, the Lenape, who helped French and American troops also move 200 00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:02.200 from the Ramapo Mountain area safe through and through the Hudson. In other words, 201 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:07.159 it was another very important artery in the Revolutionary War, and in particular 202 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.480 aided by the Native Americans in the area. Talk a little bit of bit 203 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.840 now about the Ramapole Pass. Well, the Ramapop Pass, whereas you was 204 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.720 known as Sidmund's Clove. It's the only way that you can get from here 205 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:25.080 to Albany without the river. In those days, there was no other way 206 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:30.519 that that was the past. So Sidmund's Clove, now the Ramapop Pass became 207 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.159 a critical juncture. Washington, George Washington and his troops were up there, 208 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:38.639 stationed in what we're now known as the Torn Valley, and that whole area 209 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:45.480 Mahwa Slowsburg was like Cowboy Area. I mean it was you really had no 210 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.000 way around because it wasn't controlled by either the British or the Americans per se. 211 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:56.320 But the pass itself became very critical, which is why Washington's troop did 212 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.320 troops were stationed in the Torn Valley to make sure that things who go smoothly. 213 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.599 And oh, by the way, it was a wonderful because it was 214 00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:10.480 so and we're talking about suffering and that whole area of that area. If 215 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:14.039 one goes there and look now, all of you, all of your major 216 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:17.000 power lines, all of your water lines, all of your gas lines, 217 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:21.559 everything comes from the Ramapop Pass. The Revolutionary War it was as critical. 218 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.839 So the Americans, as the story goes, and I happened to believe it, 219 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:29.880 decided that they really made to do a feint during the Revolutionary War. 220 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.920 Prior to Yorktown. They sent a fellow who got captured purposely with notes suggesting 221 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:37.720 that Washington was going to attack New York City, which of course was a 222 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.799 stronghold for the Brits. What he was doing was he was going with rasch 223 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:47.640 Abo and others in French and marching around New York City to this place we 224 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:52.240 now know is Yorktown. And it happened in Mahwah with a diversion of the 225 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:56.119 British troops, so they say, and I happened to believe it. Yeah, 226 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:02.839 And it's interesting in how pivotal New York City was, but how strategically 227 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.200 Washington knew it was better to leave it to the British and fight elsewhere. 228 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:14.359 You know, sometimes tactically may not have been the best, but strategically he 229 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.880 certainly was. And that was a huge strategic move, it was, and 230 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.359 of course we had the French then suddenly on our size since seventeen seventy seven 231 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.400 Battle of Saratoga, which by the way, Benedict Arnold was tremendous at I 232 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:32.119 mean, he was wounded there and helped us make that battle which stopped were 233 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.480 going from coming down and splitting you know, the Hudson River, right, 234 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:40.279 so you know all of this, and the British fleets, the Navy fleets 235 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:45.279 occupied and cornered Burgoyne's team down in New Yorktown. But they had to go 236 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:49.200 through Rocklin County, which is my point. And on places they marched down 237 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:53.440 are places we know well, and one of them is a Ramapo Pass, 238 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:59.559 and how they went through there, you know, it's great stuff. You 239 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.559 know, we mentioned the Hudson River and the strategy of the British and the 240 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.359 Americans. They both knew it was really the key to the war because if 241 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:12.599 the British could control absolutely the Hudson River on both sides of the River, 242 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:18.000 they would effectively split the colonies in half and could safely attack one and then 243 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:22.880 attack the other, rather than multiple fronts. So it was absolutely key. 244 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:27.160 Washington knew that, the British knew that. So all along the Hudson River, 245 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:32.759 which Rockland happens to lie from south to north, and as we continue 246 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:37.599 our journey north, we have to go to West Point. Of course Fort 247 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:41.359 Putnam, who's a part And people have to remember before it was a military 248 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:45.880 academy, it was a key fortress. And I wish you talk a little 249 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:49.400 bit, but I think it's very fascinating the chain that was erected across the 250 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:55.279 Hudson River from West Point to Constitution Island. But let's talk a little bit 251 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.839 first about West Point and the key role it played first as a fortress before 252 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.440 it became a military academy. Yeah. Well, of course, the Hudson 253 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.920 River, as you pointed out, was key, and West Point and the 254 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:14.680 forts for Montgomery and others were there were very important in trying to protect our 255 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.519 area. We were somewhat successful, by the way. That's one of the 256 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:21.599 reasons why Stony Point was important as well the Hudson River. Yeah, so 257 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:25.599 so we the colonists, we future Americans built a big chain. You know 258 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:29.119 where the iron ore came from. It came from Rockland County right up in 259 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:33.240 the areas of Slowsburg in Tuxedo. Incidentally, when I when I say Rockland, 260 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:38.279 Frank and it's important that your viewers know that Rockland County became a county 261 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:44.680 in part because of the total destruction of Rockland area during the Revolutionary War. 262 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.960 Orange County residents didn't want to pay the taxes to take care of us so 263 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:53.640 and literally because our farms are destroyed, everything was messed up. They agreed 264 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:59.440 finally with people what they call south of the Borders, south of the mountains 265 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:02.519 rather which of the Ramapo Mountains, will let them go and live by themselves 266 00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:06.279 and do their own their own taxing, which is how Rocklin County became a 267 00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:11.559 county and broke from Orange County early border crisis, and we've been dealing with 268 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:15.680 it ever since, in one one form or another, it seems. But 269 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:19.400 yeah, well it's fascinating, and of course it's still that the Ramapol Mountain 270 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.039 area and and and will nape just to go back. I mean, they 271 00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:29.400 they were tremendous in lots of different areas, and and of course they the 272 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:33.440 Tappans had most of the control of almost all the control. They were part 273 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:40.720 of the Algonquin speaking uh tribes uh As I say, in in in Nayak, 274 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.079 and in Paramount and in spark Hill. If you go all those places 275 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.880 in any of that West Point is a critical peace along with the other fortresses. 276 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:52.160 And when that big chain they wanted to again, the Hudson River being 277 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.799 key, the big chain was forged in many cases with iron Ore uh to 278 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:03.759 our in our north and and our and our county in northern areas. If 279 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:06.480 you had to choose one, and I know it's difficult because there are so 280 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:11.000 many great sites, you know, even for somebody to visit, what would 281 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:15.119 you think might be Oh, I mean, let's not limit it to one. 282 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:19.240 The top two or three sites that you say you think that people should 283 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:26.359 should certainly see here of historic significance in Rockland County for revolutionary sites, and 284 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:27.880 we're going to move on from there. What would you say the top two 285 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:30.519 or three would be. Well, I mean, we've talked about a couple 286 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:36.039 of them already. I think without question, Washington's headquarters. It's just it's 287 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.960 run by the Masons. I mean, it's still kept up by the Masons. 288 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:45.279 It's a great place to really get an absorption of how important our little 289 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:49.160 area was and how important it was. The Stony Point Battlefield is a great 290 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.920 place. And although the Stony Point Battlefield was giving back and forth, you 291 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.119 know, the battle itself had a lot of meaning and really made a lot 292 00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.480 of difference in terms of how we were viewed in terms of the war as 293 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:07.920 well. I would also suggest going to a very small museum set up by 294 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:11.400 a friend of ours, Jerrey donn Ellen, that basically set it up, 295 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:17.279 which is the Camp Shanks Museum, which is an Orangeburg we you know, 296 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:21.759 real quickly, not actual, really important too. First place we're gonna move, 297 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:25.359 we'll move. Let's move to that. It's a natural segue. So 298 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:26.960 let's be cause I you know, nineteenth and twentieth century, and I have 299 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:30.480 it on my list here. So many things happening in Naya, from the 300 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:36.279 Nayak Turnpike, the train that went through, the electricity there, the shoe 301 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:38.960 thing, the brinks rock. So much happened to nay Why don't you take 302 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.160 it from there? Then? Well, I'm just going to say briefly that 303 00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:48.559 the first electricity ever was in Christmas even eighteen ninety nine in Nayak, New 304 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:55.680 York. For real electricity generated in Orangeburg, which is where location right now, 305 00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:59.960 approximately where the Camp Camp Shanks Museum is. Just to make this old 306 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:04.279 that much more interesting. So uh but but Nayak becomes you know, very 307 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:10.000 very important. Not only it shoes what have you. But an interesting fact 308 00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:14.400 is that Nayak also was one of the first places where steamboats were allowed to 309 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.000 stop. And those steamboats, you know, they were terrific. Havistraw I 310 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:22.759 had one, and and Nyac and Doug Gonet spark killed, slashed Tappan Sloat 311 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:27.079 was jealous, so they built a pier which and then changed their name to 312 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:32.319 Piermont. Well, Piermont then became a no place another place for the for 313 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:37.319 those ferries, those steamboats to go, and that pier became famous both for 314 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:41.720 Camp Shanks, but not the least of which is uh. One of one 315 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.480 of our local guys said, you know what, his daughter's granddaughter came in 316 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.680 and said, I lies on a railroad. I was on a rail car 317 00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:52.920 in South Carolina. Got it was great, you get you should get one 318 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.119 granddad up here. And uh so he thought about it, went to a 319 00:24:56.119 --> 00:25:00.519 guy named Elazar Lord, and they created the Eerie railro which they built from 320 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:04.759 the Piermont Pier to Buffalo, New York. It all happened here in Rocken 321 00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:08.880 County. And his name was Jeremiah Pearson, by the way, and Jeremiah 322 00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:17.559 Pearson was also the fellow who ran the various nail factories and cotton factory up 323 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:19.960 in Slotsburg and Sterlington, New York. Anyway, as an aside, that 324 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:26.240 Piermont Pier becomes critical not just for the Erie Railroad, but for Camp Shanks 325 00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:29.400 and for World War two and troop movements in World War Two. Well, 326 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.000 let's get to Camp Shanks. It's a name familiar to many of us here 327 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:37.200 in Rockland County, but not necessarily nationally, and it should be because it 328 00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:41.519 played such a pivotal role in World War Two, particularly in the invasion of 329 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:48.559 Normandy. Tell us about Camp Shanks. Well, Camp Shanks's about was properly 330 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.039 purchased by the government nineteeen forty two, I forget them, total of racers, 331 00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:59.039 but two hundred plus acres and it is currently now where the Tappanzee High 332 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:03.400 School is right now to Dominican University where Schaefer Elementary School is for those in 333 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:10.799 Orangeburg, and it literally became a community unto itself. They had jails, 334 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:15.039 they had entertainment, and they brought in troops from all over the country to 335 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.559 go to Camp Shanks for training and what have you. And from Camp Shanks 336 00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:23.240 they went down to Piermont on the Pier and got in ships and went to 337 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:32.000 Europe to fight in World War Two. One point three million troops left off 338 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:38.440 that Piramont Pier to go fight in Europe against the Germans. About seventy percent 339 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:44.440 of the invasion force at Normandy, I believe was shipped out originally from Camp 340 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:49.160 Shanks. It was. It was enormous and it had I mean it was. 341 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:52.920 It was absolutely enormous, and Camp Shanks was there for many years until 342 00:26:52.960 --> 00:27:00.359 nineteen forty six. A lot of folks who populated rock and County frank were 343 00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.920 from originally from the Camp Shanks, you know, and were shipped out. 344 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:07.279 They were from other places, but they came back and a lot of the 345 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.839 folks, a lot of our lawyers and judges and what have you, lived 346 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:18.480 in the Camp Shanks barracks early on in Rocking County the Rocking County's involvement. 347 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.079 So yeah, it was a critical spot. So that Piermont Pier. You 348 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:26.920 asked where people should go, I would. I would go down to Piermont 349 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:32.559 Pier and think about things like, can you imagine a first railroad in the 350 00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:37.559 east on second longest in the whole world, were emanating from that place in 351 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.640 eighteen fifty something, and then think of a one point three million troops who 352 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.640 left to go fight on behalf of our country. You talk about something important 353 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:52.680 to think about on July fourth now and the museum is where the old Orangeburg 354 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.599 pipe factory which was run by Roe. How was his name, Stephen, 355 00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:02.680 Stephen, I'll think of it a Bradley. That area now has changed, 356 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:06.279 but there is a is a small museum of Camp Shanks, and I would 357 00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:11.359 urge people to go there because it's a small but it's fascinating. Well I 358 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.559 tend to agree, but you know, Piermont so historic, great little town, 359 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:21.160 physical beauty right on the Hudson River is extraordinary to pan beautiful little town. 360 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:25.240 The seventy six House still operates as a restaurant with good food and you 361 00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:29.680 can get the vibe. You can sit where George Washington sat where Alexander Hamilton 362 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:33.640 sat. It's a good, great experience and walk the little town. And 363 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:37.400 then of course you know the Stony Point Battlefield again, not only the history. 364 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:40.799 It's a beautiful place. As a matter of I little known the oldest 365 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.920 lighthouse in New York State is located on the property. Well, again because 366 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:51.519 of the key waterway that the Hudson has been since the beginning of the inception 367 00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:56.079 of this country. So I agree those are three great great spots now and 368 00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.680 study points good in front too, because there are tours there and there's a 369 00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:03.440 whole you know, whole exhibition, so it's you know, you just go 370 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:06.559 there and people take care of you and give you a sense of it. 371 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:10.599 I want to talk a little bit too about the Havestraw brickyards because it was 372 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:15.440 so key. So much of New York City was built with have straw brick. 373 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.960 So tell us a little bit about the Havestraw the brickyards there, Yeah, 374 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:23.160 you know, and I think it was seventeen early seventeen seventies seventy one. 375 00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:30.759 The clay that exists there in Hastraw area was great, and so they 376 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:37.240 started making bricks and by seventeen I was seventeen or about eighteen eighteen fifties, 377 00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.759 they had forty two brick making factories in Haverstraw, known as I mean, 378 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.240 and these bricks were set all over the East coast, you know for a 379 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:52.839 building. So it was the nails were you know, cropped up and made 380 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:59.000 in Sterlington, the Slotsburg, and they were sent all over the rocks of 381 00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:00.880 one have you you were all over and they were sent to all many places 382 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:06.279 from Rockland. But the bricks and the brickyards and those brickyards, you know, 383 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:10.279 they were marvelous. They had a bad accident up there and have a 384 00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:15.759 Straw. I think it was the first huge environmental industrial slash accidents with the 385 00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.839 brick they undermined so much of the town by digging it collapse, you'd say, 386 00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:23.279 yeah, nineteen I think it was nineteen oh six. I'm not sure, 387 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.680 but I think that's about the right. And people died because of the 388 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:32.279 collapse of the areas, you know, where clay had been taken. But 389 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.920 have Astraw bricks, you know, they built a lot of what was the 390 00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:41.400 early parts of the United States, you know, And sometimes you think Habstrow 391 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.079 doesn't get its due. Originally the Dutch name was Habstrew of something along those 392 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:48.920 lines. I'm not the historian, but I am fascinated and I do read 393 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:53.759 up about it, and I understand it was probably the first point that some 394 00:30:53.839 --> 00:31:00.599 of the sailors from from Hudson's adventures up up the Hudson with the river that 395 00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:06.039 eventually bore his name, actually settled first in the area of have a Straw, 396 00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:11.680 So it was really kind of the first settlement along the Hudson River. 397 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:18.119 The very first, the very first settlement was the spark Hill Creek because it 398 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.400 was it was the first, it was easier, and they had a creek 399 00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:26.400 there, uh Tappan sloughed I think it was called, but which I always 400 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.519 found find funny spark Hill Creek, which really sad. Spark Kill Creek means 401 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:34.880 spark kill, spark creek, creek creek, creek kill creek, creek killed 402 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:41.279 creek Creek is I think one of the first places that people actually from New 403 00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:45.119 York area and what have you. But Lavistraw has been there, and of 404 00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.559 course it's the bay and Hastraw is so big and it's relatively shallow, so 405 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:53.119 it's great for that kind of thick and ships. So it it. Nayak 406 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:59.000 and and and Piramont and spark Hill basically were like the spots. By the 407 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:00.640 way, those the only place you you can get into Rockland. You got 408 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:04.480 Hooked Mountain, you got the Palisades. I mean you only there are only 409 00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:07.519 three spots that you could actually land in rock And County. But one of 410 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:10.400 those spots, and I just want to mention this because I think it's it's 411 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:15.160 fun and that is that. You know, one of the things we overlook 412 00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:19.839 is the Naiak Turnpike. And the nick Turnpike was never there. There was 413 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.480 no road running from Suffern to Nayak. And the reason for that is a 414 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:28.880 thing called a swamp, the green Bush Swamp. We know it as the 415 00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:34.279 Palisades Center Mall. That swamp is still a swamp. But they decided to 416 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.319 go floods with every buge I have to Rocklanders are laughing because it's still floods 417 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:42.839 with every single big rating storm. But please continue. Yeah, but they 418 00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:46.480 decided again. Jeremiah Pearson Eliza Lord And said they've built a toll road. 419 00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:52.400 Why because they could get faster from Suffern Slowsburg to the Hudson River if they 420 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.519 went directly instead of having to go through two to O two have a strong 421 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:00.359 Well, it was a big fight between Haristraw and and my point to that 422 00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:04.480 is what's new. I mean, that's been true all these years. So 423 00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:07.480 they finally got it done after nineteen years. But that road, that toll 424 00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:13.519 road, allowed for tremendous amounts of goods and materials to then get out of 425 00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:17.559 Nayak and to help build Nayak into a major place. So that toll road 426 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:22.079 that ran through the swamp that's still a swamp is important to the Rock and 427 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:27.559 County history. And the Thruway decided to follow the same route slightly slightly off, 428 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.119 but the same route. Before we go to the break, and as 429 00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:32.880 they mentioned in the beginning, I want to talk a little bit about where 430 00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:37.559 we are now, where we're going, how America evolves, et cetera. 431 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:40.839 But before we to get your personal feelings, how did it feel to you 432 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:45.839 to be, if you will, the representative of a place so historic and 433 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:50.559 so rich in history. That's one of that I know Orangeberg uses that as 434 00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:55.039 one of its slogans. But how did it feel to be the chief executive 435 00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.799 of such a historic place? Well, first of all, I was very 436 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:05.039 out to be it, and you know, I think in those days I 437 00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:07.800 was the second. You know, the history of the whole political history is 438 00:34:07.800 --> 00:34:13.679 another show how we got there. But when you look at the county we 439 00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:19.599 had in nineteen fifty we had about ninety thousand people total. This happens z 440 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:23.199 Bridge was built, nineteen fifty five was completed. So by nineteen seventy we 441 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:28.039 had two hundred and thirty thousand people in Rockham County. There were a thousand 442 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:31.599 homes built every year in Rockham. So if you look at the overall, 443 00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:39.199 you know, we really are a modern, relatively modern county from that perspective, 444 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:43.679 having grown so quickly. But I, you know, I happened to 445 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:46.039 love it. I grew up here, and so you know, I sort 446 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:52.880 of I remember when if I may say so, and I think it's great. 447 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:58.159 And because of the history and because it's so dynamically different, Sony points 448 00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.360 a different place than Pearl River, you know, it's a different place than 449 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:05.760 They're all different demographics. It's amazing. Each little town, it's a little 450 00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.320 place, but each has its own little flavor, yes it really does, 451 00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:14.480 and its own issues on have you. So it's a great county. All 452 00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:16.719 right, we're gonna take a break. My very special guest is former Rockland 453 00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:22.880 County executive and head of the Rockland County Historical Society, Scott Vanderhoff. We're 454 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:28.280 talking history from the beginning until now. When we come back, we're gonna 455 00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:31.920 talk a little bit about now, where where are we with our founding fathers 456 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.320 recognize us today? So I'll prepare you with that question, Scott. We'll 457 00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.639 come back and let you give a few moments during a commercial break to come 458 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.400 up with a good answer for that one. This is being Frank. I'm 459 00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:50.280 your host, Frank Lebarma will be break back right after these brief commercial messages. 460 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:54.519 Please don't go anywhere yet. Hudson River Radio dot com. Check out 461 00:35:54.559 --> 00:36:00.519 The angel Quest Show with psychic media and author Karen Noe. Karen and covers 462 00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:06.039 spiritual topics such as near death experiences, reincarnation, life after death, how 463 00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:09.360 your thoughts create your reality, creating peace on Earth, and so much more. 464 00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:15.519 Check out The angel Quest Show on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, 465 00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:22.280 or wherever you get your podcasts. Bring a dash of green into your life. 466 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:27.320 Check out The Many Shades of Green with Maxine Margart Rubin and Malcolm Berman. 467 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:31.880 Get informed about environmental issues and current events that affect us. All pick 468 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:37.320 a shade of green and raise your eco consciousness with the many shades of green 469 00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:45.519 available on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, 470 00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:55.440 Pudsonriverradio dot com. Welcome back to Being Frank, the Intelligent Conversation podcast. 471 00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:59.639 Thanks for sticking with us. I'm your host, Frank Lebono. My 472 00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:07.360 guest is a former Rockland County executive and former head of the Rockland Historical Society, 473 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:13.280 Scott Vanderhoff, and we're discussing everything American history, particularly as it relates 474 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.440 to our area of Rockland County. You know, we bring our audience a 475 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:20.880 fresh topic every week, and we stream from Hudson River Radio, located and 476 00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:24.119 beautiful and as we mentioned, historic Stony Point, New York. But remember 477 00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:30.000 you can catch Being Frank anywhere you get your favorite podcasts like Apple, Spotify, 478 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:34.239 iHeartRadio and all the others. And because every Being Frank is archived, 479 00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:37.400 you can listen to any program anytime you like. You can find the link 480 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:44.440 to Being Frank on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page or at our website Hudsonriverradio 481 00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.880 dot com. Look from my icon. It's on the left side. Click 482 00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:51.639 on it and you're there. Leave us a comment, and please consider subscribing 483 00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:54.239 to the podcast, and if you really like us, share Being Frank with 484 00:37:54.280 --> 00:38:00.800 your family and friends. Scott Vanderhoff, welcome back. I tease you a 485 00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:06.280 little bit before the break. So let's start with that question. Would the 486 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:12.960 Founding Fathers recognize America today? And if so, would they be pleased displeased? 487 00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:16.199 What are your feelings. I'm not going to put you on the spot 488 00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:22.719 or anything, but remember all conversations are good, so go for Well. 489 00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:28.760 First, I'm not sure the Founding Fathers, I mean, even in their 490 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.599 wisdom, could have imagined a country that they helped create, which is a 491 00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:35.800 good one. I mean, I really not to be quite quite blunt about 492 00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:38.400 it. I mean, I think a lot of it, including the Constitution, 493 00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:44.880 was built up over a period of time and as amended and what have 494 00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:47.920 you to try to deal with the adjustments of modernity and what have you. 495 00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:54.360 But I think this certainly in recent events, Okay, I happen to believe 496 00:38:54.440 --> 00:39:02.880 that there is some disappointment that some would have and you know, I I 497 00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:10.079 don't know how to exactly say this, but there's almost a self driven desire 498 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:16.239 by folks that I'm not sure existed. I mean, everybody certainly is you 499 00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:21.440 know, entitled to life, living and uh and what have you. But 500 00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:27.679 there's something about I think something that happened in COVID. I think changed a 501 00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.719 dynamic and I and I think that's why I say it. It was almost 502 00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:37.079 as if when we put those masks on, we became so self centered, 503 00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:40.719 selfish in the sense we don't want anybody else to catch anything, but we 504 00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:45.760 didn't want to catch anything from anybody. Combined with that, and combined with 505 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:51.159 the you know, the information is out there, both good and incorrect, 506 00:39:52.480 --> 00:40:00.000 sort of transformed the individual identity to a very more a less public spirited identity 507 00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:05.920 for a lot of people, and more in house. I'm not expressing this 508 00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:15.000 very well, but there's almost there's almost a withdrawal from the public good for 509 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:19.639 the need of the public good overall. And you know, and I'll tell 510 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:23.119 you, Frank, and this is purely just me, but you see it 511 00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:29.920 a lot on highways and roads people seem to not care as much about how 512 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:36.679 fast they go or or you know, interrupted, yeah, on roads and 513 00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:43.119 here and there, and it's almost like we've created a at least temporarily a 514 00:40:43.239 --> 00:40:49.360 society of me only as opposed to I think what our forefathers were thinking about 515 00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:54.760 a broader good and and and so that that's rather my broader kind of view 516 00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:59.280 of it. I just think we've we sort of we've sort of lost the 517 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:06.159 the community spirit that I think certainly was there. And when they decided to 518 00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:09.920 in July fourth seventy actually it was July second, as I understand it, 519 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:15.400 But anyway, when they signed the declaration of independence and said we are we 520 00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:17.360 want to become our own nation. And I think a lot of us driven 521 00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:23.840 I think by the whole mentality of the COVID process that's taken over the last 522 00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:28.880 several years. Very very interesting point of view. If I might to do 523 00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:34.559 one thing that strikes me as ironic, especially today or tomorrow. We're recording 524 00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.519 on the third, but we're doing it for a fourth of July celebration. 525 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:42.440 And you know, we call it the fourth of July, but we forget 526 00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:46.000 the real title is Independence Day, and the whole idea of it is that. 527 00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:52.159 And you mentioned as an independent nation, we shall serve no king. 528 00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:58.639 But yet there are certain things that are happening now. One of them the 529 00:41:58.679 --> 00:42:04.480 Supreme Court decision which has really changed the tenor of what it means to be 530 00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:08.800 the chief executive in this country, and something called Project twenty twenty five, 531 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:16.719 which from what I've read, is almost a fascist doctrine. So it disturbs 532 00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:22.480 me that we're celebrating our independence, yet there seems to be a move towards 533 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:29.199 demagoguery, if you will, towards someone who could actually become a dictator in 534 00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:32.559 this country, and that these are there are people who actually support that move, 535 00:42:32.599 --> 00:42:37.320 and that's shocking to me because if anything is anti democratic, it would 536 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:42.400 be that. So what your feelings, like I said, without getting overtly 537 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.440 political, but it affects us. We live in this country and decisions like 538 00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:52.400 the recent one that I felt was shocking from the Supreme Court because the depth 539 00:42:52.480 --> 00:43:00.400 of it to be able to create the whole idea again, remember they did 540 00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:06.159 America was an idea and an ideal okay, that no one is above the 541 00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:10.760 law. That that is, to me, the prime tenet of American democracy. 542 00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:13.880 No one is above the law. And now it's like, well, 543 00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:17.960 maybe somebody is are we going in the right direction with things like that? 544 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:25.760 Scott, Well, the answer is I don't know, but but I think 545 00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:35.119 the Supreme Court decision has got a lot of elements of interpretation that will take 546 00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:40.840 place. And having said that, okay, on first blush, one would 547 00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:45.800 say what what what are you? What are you doing? But remember every 548 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:52.519 word is used in former and further legal issues as to how exactly the court 549 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:59.280 would interpret various things. So while I find it dramatic, I don't find 550 00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:06.400 that I think that there will be changes in ways that will ameliorate what our 551 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:12.039 gut feeling. I am more concerned or no, I'm more concerned with ignorance, 552 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:16.320 because there are many folks in the country, in my opinion, who 553 00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:22.840 are are not knowledgeable about the truth, about finding the truth, about looking 554 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:30.920 for information that they accept whatever their favorite just and that ultimately, if we 555 00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:36.679 do not trustworthiness, it's the first thing on the scout, oh, trustworthiness. 556 00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:39.519 If we can't find a way to trust, and I don't care what 557 00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:45.559 your political affiliation is, if we don't have that fundamental I believe in this 558 00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:49.400 as opposed to where we are. Government officials aren't trusted, the courts aren't 559 00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:54.840 trusted, the candidates aren't trusted, and we have lost this sense of Listen, 560 00:44:54.960 --> 00:45:00.480 I'm telling the truth. This is the facts. They may then maybe 561 00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:04.519 you can interpret them, but here are the facts. I don't you know, 562 00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:06.880 I was thinking about this the other day. I don't know what's going 563 00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:13.880 to change. It may be an outside attack on our society generally to get 564 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:20.719 folks to recognize that opinions and all these other things that go on without fact, 565 00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:24.039 without truth, without some looking into it, we are in trouble as 566 00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:28.599 a democracy. I don't think there's any question because you won't know what you're 567 00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:32.159 voting for or or even who you're voting for. I mean, and so 568 00:45:32.199 --> 00:45:37.000 there's a lot of this which I think relates to you, all the information 569 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:39.960 we get from whatever sources on our phones and our computers and what have you, 570 00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:45.760 and also on those who would take advantage of it, who are many, 571 00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:49.760 you know. I think that's really important that this is not by accident. 572 00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.440 This is a deliberate act. You know. Something came up today, 573 00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:57.159 it was very interesting, and it was posted about this is the addiversary of 574 00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:00.960 the end of the Vietnam War and has not been a single man Well, 575 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.639 the reason is not there hasn't been a single mention is because it's not true, 576 00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:08.599 Okay, and it's amazing to me is that that very particular it's on 577 00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:14.679 social media, and that particular ad or whatever you want to call it appears 578 00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:19.400 every two weeks or so, so you can only have so many anniversaries at 579 00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:23.719 a time. But people don't see it. And again it's something you mentioned. 580 00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:28.840 They want to believe it, okay, and what they don't understand. 581 00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:31.480 And sometimes I have to catch myself because I can be very critical and say, 582 00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:35.159 guys, you have to be aware, you have to be aware, 583 00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:38.360 you have to be awarey, because there are people deliberately these are Chinese, 584 00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:45.320 Russian bots, etc. Who are doing these things deliberately to sow misinformation and 585 00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:51.719 to create issues between people. So like, oh nobody cares. Of course 586 00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:54.480 people care if it were true. It just happens not to be true, 587 00:46:54.519 --> 00:46:59.320 but people stop when it reaches well, that's all I want to hear. 588 00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:05.320 Well, and just just tagging on that, I think the issue of legitimacy 589 00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:12.400 of telling the truth of you know, we can't have a situation where elected 590 00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:16.719 officials are those who want to be elected simply lie and nobody nobody counters it, 591 00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:22.679 because ultimately, then who do you trust If you can't trust the leaders 592 00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:24.760 and you can't trust your government. If you can't, then you have a 593 00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:30.519 form anarchy. Okay, and and maybe that's where we're headed. But if 594 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:35.280 we just if people would just I know, it's difficult, you know, 595 00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:37.719 I mean everybody has their own news station and what have you. If one 596 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:43.760 just begins to at least look at two or three sources for the info and 597 00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:46.519 try to discover the truth and then to attach you know, Okay, I'm 598 00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:50.920 going to go this way, we'd be good. But right now, I 599 00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:58.800 fear once we lose our faith and trust in people who are governing us and 600 00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:02.480 people who are who are who are medical professors, the people who are giving 601 00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:06.679 this, the people who are on our you know, who were expected to 602 00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:10.559 follow the rules of the road on a highway, we are in trouble because 603 00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:16.159 there there will be you know, then then nobody uh will know what to 604 00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:22.119 do. And instantly one final point on that, when I was executive, 605 00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:23.360 one of the keys we want to make sure we could do is to know 606 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:28.000 people that could rely on us if we had to evacuate the county, God 607 00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:30.920 forbid, something happened to Indian point, we had a nuclear emergency. We 608 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:36.639 had to make sure that people trusted us to know that we're doing this for 609 00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:39.960 the best benefit. That know, they can't run to their their local grammar 610 00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:45.159 school because we've got a system set up so that nobody gets crashed in there 611 00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:50.840 things of that nature. If we lose that and the ability to sincerely and 612 00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:55.519 honestly get forth instructions and help and guidance, then then we're all going to 613 00:48:55.519 --> 00:49:02.239 be swimming in a you know, in a very i'd say, you know, 614 00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:07.519 drowning turf. You know, I think Scott because it takes effort. 615 00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:12.440 Again, I mentioned it in the past, and Franklin said it. You 616 00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:17.639 know, democracy is a participatory type of government. You have to be active, 617 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.519 and part of that is you have to educate yourself. And I remember 618 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:27.880 a while ago there was something on the internet, of course, in some 619 00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:34.320 Facebook meme or whatever, and it suited my narrative, and it turned out 620 00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:37.920 to be not true. Okay, And what you see when that happens, 621 00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:43.280 often people instead of saying okay, I get it and I'll do better, 622 00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:46.800 often they say, well, it should be true or it should have been 623 00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:52.239 true because it fits their narrative. But that's wrong. I made that mistake 624 00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:55.599 once, and I swore I would never make that mistake again, so things 625 00:49:55.880 --> 00:50:00.079 and maybe because I'm a journalist, I have that little extra radar. Well. 626 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:05.280 I go by the old axiom things that are too good to be true 627 00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:14.119 usually are you know, so they're not true in other words, so you 628 00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:16.400 know, it takes a little bit of an effort to say, you know, 629 00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:21.960 to jump on and there. And we've actually talked about letters from Einstein 630 00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:25.920 that aren't true, the deathbed confessions of Steve Jobs, and you look at 631 00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:30.000 them and you say, boy, that's a beautiful letter. But I don't 632 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.519 think it came from Steve Jobs. And there are mess and there are methods, 633 00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:37.519 scopes, Google, et cetera. There are websites where you can actively 634 00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:42.440 check these things, but you have to actively do it. One last question 635 00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:45.280 before we wrap up, Scott, are you you optimistic or pessimistic for the 636 00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:55.239 future. What is your feeling? Oh, I am I have optimism with 637 00:50:55.360 --> 00:51:00.440 a touch of pessimism. You know. I happen to believe that in the 638 00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:09.400 end this will work its way through. I am quite uneasy about our current 639 00:51:10.119 --> 00:51:17.400 situation, and I mean everything from the wars to you know, to alliances 640 00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:24.760 to politics. I'm extremely uneasy and want to be defeatist and depressed, but 641 00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:31.400 I really believe, and maybe it's just because I believe in the process as 642 00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:43.679 historically shown, that in the end Americans will find a way to preserve both 643 00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:47.159 the independence and the way of life, as difficult as it may be from 644 00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:52.000 a financial point of view or what have you, that we have and that 645 00:51:52.000 --> 00:52:00.400 that ultimately that the theory of democracy and the theory will strive and will over 646 00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:07.519 bear the negative, the nastiness, you know, the fear mong greene, 647 00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:10.519 and that we ultimately will come out all right. You know, my paraphrase 648 00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:15.920 Winston Churchill is that something along the lines that when the chips are down, 649 00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:20.840 the Americans may may dally, but at some point they'll do the right thing. 650 00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:23.639 And we certainly hope for that. You know what, I write a 651 00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:29.599 blog Talk Talk Frank you can people can check it out ww dot talk dash 652 00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:32.840 Frank dot blogspot dot com. And I have some thoughts that I share on 653 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:37.400 Independence Day and and where we might be and where we might going, and 654 00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:43.400 I share a lot of your concerns, et cetera. Then it will take 655 00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:47.360 us work, but if we work at it will be okay. Let's hope 656 00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:52.239 so, and you know, uh, for those of us who are getting 657 00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:57.119 on an age. We hope that works. Yeah, they can't see our 658 00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:00.960 great beards because we don't. We don't transmit video anymore, but we'll let 659 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:05.800 them know. Yes, you and I are both great beards at this point. 660 00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:10.239 I remember when we first met, we didn't have all these little more 661 00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:14.400 hair too. Yeah, it's a little bit more and it was certainly a 662 00:53:14.440 --> 00:53:20.039 lot dark Scott vandahh. Thank you for being Frank and your intelligent conversation. 663 00:53:20.119 --> 00:53:22.920 You're always welcome here. Thank you, Frank, appreciate it. You know. 664 00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:27.039 We offer special thanks to our listeners who take time to give us a 665 00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:30.000 voice in their lives. You remember, we offer a fresh topic every week. 666 00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:35.719 You can catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts That includes 667 00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:38.519 Apple, Spotify, iHeart Radio, and all the rest. Check us out 668 00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:43.159 on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page, Like us and leave us a comment. 669 00:53:44.039 --> 00:53:49.000 We also ask that you consider sharing Being Frank with others. You always 670 00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:52.239 like to leave you with a couple little nuggets, as I call them on 671 00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:55.840 a slogan that I hope is appropriate for our conversation. And then some some 672 00:53:55.960 --> 00:54:01.400 good original some great original music. This is from Thomas Paine, who by 673 00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:07.280 the Way had a homestead not too far from Rockland County over in Westchester County 674 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:12.800 in New Rochelle, and I highly recommend you read his stuff. It's absolutely 675 00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:15.679 brilliant, and I think this is very appropriate for our conversation today and what's 676 00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:21.559 going on. And this is in short, because a body of men holding 677 00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:28.000 themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody. Okay, And 678 00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:31.159 I've got some great music from a friend, the legendary Pat Keating, who 679 00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:37.360 took some time out and he composed this original ditty called the Mailman's Shuffle especially 680 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:43.440 for us and independsen stay here in America. I'm your host, Frank Lobono 681 00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:47.079 for our engineer, the mail Man, Neil Richter, like to say, 682 00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:51.920 thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next being Frank, we 683 00:54:51.960 --> 00:56:13.719 certainly hope so everything and thing thing thin Hudson River Radio dot com. Mm hmm