Hello, and welcome to Open Mind, You of All Radio. I am
your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am joined by Uh, this guy's
really cool. Cool dude, he's so cool. In fact, I'm gonna
call him today, Martin Polar Bear Willis. Yes, did I tell you
that we at snow last night? Oh? You did? I didn't even
know that. I think I remote viewed that just now. You must have.
Yeah. Yeah, it's a beautiful winter wonderland. But it's just too
darn early, if you ask me. Yeah, I knew it was cold,
but isn't it. I mean, it's that time. It's already late
November, it's almost Thanksgiving. I know. It's just we're so spoiled last
year, such a beautiful winter, really, so I didn't see too much
snow. I've become less of a fan of snow as time goes on,
I guess, Yeah, I hear you. I mean I am like definitely
afraid of snow. I did set my trip to go back to Denver,
and you know, when I left Denver, I thought i'd miss it,
but I don't at all. It's like I just do not look forward to
the ice and cold and the snow and it makes me cringe just thinking about
it here sitting here in my flip flops at the office here. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, I'm gonna have to put on shoes and socks. Well,
looking forward to February already when I have wake up to snow like this.
Oh yeah, yeah. Out here it's going to be beautiful. It'll
be great because you know, out here where we are able to wear less
clothing, which is more natural, like you know, when we were out
in the wild. That's right, you know, so we get to live
more more like our wild, primitive selves. You yes, yeah, all
right. So my guest today is a friend to you and I, and
this is Ryan Sprague and really happy. His book is called Somewhere in the
Skies, this new book that he got out. I'm happy to have him
on the show again. I've had him on before, and I think I
was one of the first people to have him on, but he really kind
of came out, uh you know, into the UFO field with us here
at Open Minds. He started writing for our magazine and written for the website,
and so he's always been our buddy. And so it's appropriate and exciting
that his first lecture at a UFO conference will be at the UFO Congress,
and I always like having people who I think are great do their first lectures
at our conference, especially if I have faith in them, and I have
the utmost faith in Ryan Sprock doing a great job. But you know,
we had Erica Luke's on the show not too long ago, and she has
she this won't be her first lecture, but she hasn't done this much and
I've heard some great feedback, luckily from I think what was her first lecture.
So excited to have her doing a lecture too. So we go a
little bit out on the limb. But with Ryan, I think it's a
no brainer. He's just everybody loves him and he's gonna do a great job.
So I'm just really excited about that. Yeah, the guy has a
huge personality. And it's Sprague, by the way. I know you're just
teasing him, aren't you. No, How do you know it's I don't
think that's how you said that name. He's always told me Sprague. Okay,
maybe he's uh maybe, I don't know. Maybe that's how his family
pronounced that name. Yeah, I thought you were teasing him. Actually,
No, like Prague Sprague like Prague is. I'm pretty sure the way he's
always told me. Well, may I just stand corrected then? Yeah?
Or I could be wrong, But since the show was pre recorded, when
I bring him on, I won't be able to ask him. But we'll
have to ask him at some point. Well, if you only had that
darn travel time travel machine, you'd be able to. But I've always said
Sprague, and if I remember correct, he said it's like Prague. I'll
bear yeah about that. Well, in these parts here in Maine, they
we have the Sprague oil and oh, spelled exactly the same. So it's
a you know, big uh big thing in Maine. Well how about that?
Yeah, who knows? They could pronounce it wrong. It's America.
It's not like I say my name exactly like it's supposed to be. Can't
even physically move my mouth to say raha, sir. I can't roll my
rs. So oh, there you go. See, So it could be
one of those things. But so before we talked to Ryan, though,
you and I always talk ufhone news. In fact, that's what you're here
for, not just to goof around, but to actually talk some UFON news.
Well work, okay, yes, all right, So this is an
interesting image and it was posted on November sixteenth, and a witness wonders if
a video captured an alien. And if you look at this, it looks
like a silhouette of you know, like you can almost even see like shadows
where the eyes would be. It looks like a silhouette of a gray I
will tell you that, but well, i'll go into further you know,
my thoughts about this, but it is a spooky looking image. And it
was taken back on June of June seventeenth of this year, and it was
during a video chat and the lights were out and here's the witness is saying,
my bathroom light was on so I could see my computer. The witness
stated, that is the light on the left and the window curtains to the
right. Whatever had to be right behind me. So she's thinking this being
possibly was right behind her. And she has experienced of odd things and in
the past, so you know, to me, I just think it's just
one of those oddball things that happened. And you know, you instantly try
to make sense of any type of image you see. I mean, it's
a natural evolutionary thing that we do as humans, and so it's there's also
a I think it's called peridolia something like that, and that's when it's a
psychological psychological phenomenon, when the mind perceives a familiar pattern where none actually exists.
Of course, we can all look at this image, not just her,
and see that. Indeed, it does look pretty freaky and it's a
very round, large head looking thing. But what did you think about all
that? So kind of a Jesus On toasting alien in video chat? Yeah,
by the way, did you know that sold for I think it was
twenty thousand dollars on eBay the coast. The piece of Toasti's in the museum
in Las Vegas. Holy moly. Yeah, that's pretty incredible. Yeah,
I think this is that same kind of thing. I mean, that's what
the move On investigator said in this report that he felt it was periodolia as
well, because it's just a really poor resolution image and it's real fuzzy and
everything, so that it's just the shapes of the shadow makes it look like
it might be an alien. Even you can even see two dark spots in
the little eye area, right, Yeah, so they're almond shaped, you
know, just like just like the other depictions so interesting. Jesus on toast
or creepy alien creeping up on this girl while she's video chatting. Yeah,
photo bomb, it's a video bomb. Mm right, what did they did
start doing that? I didn't realize those things were saved the video chats.
No. I think she said she took a screenshot. I got it.
Yeah, so, and who knows. Maybe they're or chatting and they're like,
it's eel, buddy, that looks that shadow looks like an alien buying
you. And they're like that screenshot and said that they'll move on. So
that could be what happened. But I guess you never know. But what
if that's how aliens decide to start to introduce themselves by kind of photo bombing
us wow in chat rooms and things. Yeah, and our selfies. I
mean we're a selfie nation, right, that's right. So that would be
interesting that It makes me think I saw a rival recently which was very good,
and so you know, thinking about this kind of first contact type of
scenario, maybe that could be it. Oh you did go see that.
I am slated to see that tomorrow actually tomorrow. Cool. I hope you
like it. People, we'll talk more about it next week or the following
week, or on your show or at some point in a few sure.
Sure, yeah, yeah, Well, although I already gave away the spoiler
of the Chihuahua thing on your that's true. Was it your show or it
was? Yeah, I know it's maybe. Yeah, I'll spoil my audience
to you though. Just how I told Martin. It was, she brings
in her Chihuahua to meet the aliens and they start barking. It starts barking
at the aliens, and she's freaking out, and she discovers it. The
Chihuahua isn't trying to attack, The aliens are communicating, and that's how Chihuahua's
take over the world. Kind of like Planet of the Apes. I added
that last part. See, I like my story maybe better. Her rival
was good. It's probably gonna win all of these awards. But the Chihuahua
Planet of the Apes kind of thing. Might we might have something there.
I think I see a sequel in this. Yeah, yep, maybe a
sequel to it. So another move on debunking actually was this Trump UFO thing.
So we had written about this quite a while ago, which was that
you know, Trump was coming in somewhere I can't at the Iowa State Fair
to say hi to people during the campaign, and somebody took a couple of
pictures and said, oh, there's a UFO following it, but move on.
Finally, I guess, because that story's popped up again, release their
report and wrote about that. Roger Marsha did that via our website at Open
Minds to not TV and they said it's probably just a bird or a bug,
which what I think most of us had determined way back when. But
of course the tabloids being what they are, they're running with it and thinking
maybe aliens are chasing Trump or something. So how did this, like this
story revive itself. I think it was just one of the tabloids dredged it
back up because they had written about it before or you know, when it
kind of became a thing. And I think they just because the timing,
just drudged it back up and decided to rerun it, and which you know,
and so it's getting some more play. So anytime you put right now,
especially now, you put the word Trump and UFO together, I'm sure
it's gonna get a lot of hits and get a lot of attention. Yeah,
exactly. So. Also, did you watch that video we released on
Friday? Uh? No, I have not seen that yet. Are you
at a computer? Yes, yeah, go play it because it's very short
while I explain what's going on here. Alrighty then, so we have Yeah,
we've got a vast photo archive from Wendell Stevens, this guy who had
researched for decades and people send him pictures, but he also sought pictures out.
Many of the pictures are from the past, so before photoshop, and
some of them are very, very mysterious. So we've shared them on the
magazine, the print magazine that we used to do, the Open Minds magazine,
but we also have been putting them over the years online in videos or
we write stories about them or both. So Michael Klein are our video guy,
has been putting together some videos of these, and the latest one he
posted and put together was of some photographs from him Megie himagie. Oh yes,
I did watch Japan. Yeah. They're from August of nineteen seventy six,
taken by an eleven year old kid. He was with some friends when
they saw this dark moving object. He captured four color photos and it was
kind of funny. I guess this wasn't the first time they had seen the
object. A month prior they had seen it, but the photos really made
it to UFO researchers when the guy at the photoshop was, you know,
printing him up and he saw them and he said, oh my gosh,
I got to get this to some UFO people. So he contacted the UFO
Research organization and got them in contact with the kid. So then they were
able to kind of investigate the whole thing, uh, and they determined there
was no fraud, that this was something these guys had seen. And you
know, if you zoom in on the object, you see this kind of
like a dome shape. Yeah, like a dome on top of a dome,
type of strange shape. So pretty weird pictures. And again these are
before photoshops, so pretty interesting. You meant to say at the develop you
said at the photoshop, and it sounds like it's photoshop. You meant to
say, when the film was getting developed the Yeah, when the ALM was
getting developed at the at a photoshop, right, yeah, at the program
photoshop. Yeah, but it's before the program photoshop, when they actually had
these places called photoshops. Kids might not know that. Yeah, yeah,
I didn't really call them that. I didn't know that. Well, that's
why photoshop is called photoshoph Wow, yeah, you're kind of see you learned
something new all the time I did. Well, you were alive in nineteen
seventy six when this picture was taken. I was, yes, you were
already like my age. Oh come on now, who are In fact,
I'm just kidding. In fact, I was in diapers when this picture came
out. I remember sitting there in diapers when I got a phone call.
Hey, we've got this new UFO photo in Japan. Could you take a
look at it? I said, yeah, this is interesting. At that
time, I didn't have as much experience with the whole thing, you know,
only a few years experience, so I wasn't able to do an in
depth analysis. But they were thankful for my input. And yeah, yeah,
well you were. That was back when you were believing all the third
phase of the moon videos as well. I think, well, that's before
their time. This is when I used to analyze pictures by taking them and
chewing on them, you know, coming them up and getting them all soggy,
and then handing them back and then you know, I would shake like
a little. I would tell them my opinion at that point. So hey,
everyone's going to start somewhere. So yeah, yeah, so all right,
well, is there any more news you wanted to talk about? No,
that's it for me here, okay, good, good, Well,
thank you so much for joining us again. I hope you're able to keep
warm and keep your computer warm because I know, you know, we had
some computer issues coming in because of possibly it's coldness and the studio's too cold.
Yes, yeah, oh my gosh, that would be I mean,
I rarely have to when we go camping. I'll wear a coat, but
that's about it, and it's nice. I like being warm. But hey,
thank you so much for coming on the show again. You and I
have a great holiday. By the way, Hello, yeah, Thanksgiving.
Yeah, happy Thanksgiving everyone out there. And I doubt I'll be able to
put together a show because I'm going to have all this family in town and
this craziness going on. So I'm sure I'll talk to you on your show.
Otherwise, as far as open minds, it'll be a couple of weeks.
All right, all right, do you have a good one. Talk
to you soon, let's go ahead and talk to Ryan Sprague or Sprague.
I am very excited to welcome back to the show. Ryan Sprague. Hello,
Hey, Elehndro. It's been a while. Mm hmmm. Whereas I
like to say, and I hope you don't take offense, I like to
say Spragu sometimes. I have had so many nicknames throughout my childhood, being
an athlete, growing up and whatnot. So it's I love it. You
know, give me what you got, I'll take it. And it is
a total compliment because it makes me think of Raygu and I love Ygu,
and it makes me hungry for Italian and and spaghetti. So and it's a
it's a very pleasant feeling I have when I when I think of that,
the name that with you, I'll tell you it's my favorite food. So
I'm with you on that one. Yeah. And you're in a great place
for it, living in Manhattan. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm
here in New York City. I'm currently resided in Queens. But I did
I did do the whole Manhattanite lifestyle when I first moved here, but I
moved out to the quote unquote Burrow Urbs at this point to just get a
little bit more quiet, you know, some piece of quiet while I ruinate
on UFOs and whatnot. So yeah, man, I'm going on ten years
here, so I'm an official New Yorker, I guess. Yeah. Well,
and for those of us that you know live out here in suburbia and
the rest of the world, I mean, Queens is still New York,
you know, It's it's still city to us. Oh yeah. Even when
I have people come visit and I tell them this is the quiet area,
They're like, are you kidding me? Yeah it is. Yeah. I
grew up in small town Syracuse, New York, so I definitely know what
it's like to live in the suburbs for sure. But I would give anything
to be out there in Arizona right now. Trust me. Well, you'll
be here soon enough, because the UFO Congress is just a few months away,
and you will be one of our exciting speakers. Yes, I am
so excited. It'll be my first conference ever. So what an honor.
I you know, immediately when you asked me, I said yes without even
thinking about it. And I'm putting my talk together every day, and I'm
really looking forward to bringing some new stuff to the table. For sure.
Well when you you know, had announced you were writing this book or you
were in even in the process, I think at our last conference or while
that was happening, but I thought, you know, oh, Man,
and I had been thinking it would be so cool if we could be the
first people or the first conference that Ryan speaks at, and I thought it's
probably just not gonna happen. I mean, because there's so long to go.
Everybody's gonna you know, and I get surprised people haven't had to speak
at their conferences before, and it looks like we're gonna make it. I
think we'll make it where we will be the first, and that's gonna be
awesome because I have no doubt. You know, you're definitely well loved in
this field already, even though you haven't spoken at conferences, and I just
have every faith that people are gonna love your information. They always do,
so we also feel on it. We're super happy that. You know,
it's really cool that will be the first venue for one of your talks,
one of many, many many to come, I'm sure, I hope so.
Man. Again, like I think, it's all about getting new material
out there and a fresh perspective and I think that's what the quote unquote younger
guard is really trying to do. I mean, I'm thirty two years old
and I'm considered young in this field, and I don't think that's right.
I don't think that's right. But when I come to your conference for your
listeners that don't know, I volunteer every year. I wasn't able to come
last year, but I love coming out there, and you know, whatever
I have to do, tape down chords, do the sound, do the
lights. I love what you do, and you're bringing You're bringing the most
credibility to this field that we could possibly ask for. And I noticed that
immediately and I wanted to be a part of it. And that's what I
tried to do with the book and hopefully what I can do for the people
who come to the conference. For sure. Yeah, this time you won't
be backstage because you'll be at your table too, selling your books, so
people can come talk to you and buy the books, which is a lot
of fun. But it's going to be great to have you back. We
definitely missed you last year. I missed you guys too, So the book,
yeah, and bringing this new perspective. What approach did you take.
The book is called Somewhere in the Skies. It was just released. It
was published by Richard Dolan Press, so Richard Dolan and you might not even
know this yet, so this is probably news to you. I just posted
are essentially our rough draft of the schedule. Hopefully it'll stick, but you
never know what happens. So I've got you speaking right before Richard Dolan on
Saturday morning. Oh man, that is uh, that's a lot to live
up to you for sure. That's like being the opening band for you too,
or something. Well, at least we had before and not after,
which might be more daunting. Exactly. I wouldn't be able to live up
to that, No, don't. Richard's amazing. I couldn't have asked for
a better publisher and someone to sort of take me under his wing, show
me how it's done. And he's one of my biggest inspirations. That's for
darn shore, and that's exciting. Yeah, that's the first I heard about
it, So wow, I gotta get I gotta get moving on this.
But yeah, everything I did. So when you decided to write a book,
I mean, was it at someone's request or had you already thought about
it. Well, I've been you know, I've been writing articles for you
guys for a while, a couple other magazines out there as well, and
I you know, it's it's limited when you're writing articles. Your your job
as a journalist is to be objective, to do it concise, and you're
limited to word counts and whatnot. But I really wanted to give my own
opinion and be able to sort of elaborate on those things I was writing about.
And that's when I contacted Rich and I said, hey, man,
I want to write a book for you, and he said, awesome,
what about And honestly, Alejandra, I had no idea what my sort of
my theos. Yeah, that's literally what I said to the matter the UFOs.
He's like, yeah, great, so does everybody what what? What
about them? And that's really when I had to sit down, as the
sort of naive researcher that I was at the time, and think, what
can I What can I do? How can I benefit the field and the
study and bring to the table something new that people will actually not just want
to read but think about. And that's when he and I I sort of
narrowed it on this idea that let's focus on the individuals, those who've witnessed
UFOs, those who've possibly had contact and or an abduction experience with the possible
occupants of said UFOs. So that's what I did. The subtitle is a
human approach to an alien phenomenon, And that's really what I focused on is
how did the event affect these people's lives afterwards? And while I cover the
event itself, it's not the focal point of the book. It is the
implication to the event. How did it change their lives? Religiously, socially,
economically, sexually, psychologically, Everything you can think of can be tied
to the singular event, and I really wanted to explore that. So I
interviewed, over span of two years, about two hundred people. I narrowed
it down to a couple dozen, and that's what I focused on in the
book. I followed them through the event and talk to their family members,
you know, people in their community, and how it changed them and how
their outlook changed after the event, and how it propels them forward. Were
these all people who believed they had then some sort of contact, not necessarily
The first sort of quarter of the book chronicles people who've had UFO sightings something
so what many consider mundane just lights in the sky or possible triangular craft or
quote unquote flying saucers. So while they don't necessarily believe they were in contact
with any sort of et intelligence, what they saw conveyed something otherworldly, something
they could not explain. So the first, like I said, quarter of
the book follows those people and how those events changed maybe their beliefs. I've
got a couple of pilots who I interview, I've got a whole chapter on
military witnesses, and you know how that changed their outlook on everything they once
perceived and their mindset moving forward. And then I gradually work up to possible
contact and then abduction experiences. So there's definitely a three part structure to the
book. It's interesting to me just how impactful sightings, which many consider mundane
are two people, even lights in the sky doing weird stuff they shouldn't be
can really have a strong effect. I mean, did you find that with
some of the people you talked to? Oh? Yeah, I mean I
spoke to one guy in South Carolina who saw these orange orbs, which I
know you've covered on previous episodes with certain researchers and whatnot. While these can
sometimes be attributed to weather anomalies or condensed energies you know, bald lightning we
sometimes refer to, there are just no explanation for some of these things.
And this gentleman in South Carolina witnessed this with other people around, was able
to videotape it, sent it off to movefon, sent it off to the
FAA, the nearby Air Force base. Nobody recorded anything in the skies that
night, so whatever he saw was not a conventional and or commercial flight.
Apparently it was not military. But this changed this man's life a and andro.
He he was a pretty stand up guy, pretty laid back beforehand,
very salt of the earth everything. And after this event, he felt like
something was sort of unlocked in his mind and he became an artist. You
know. We started seeing patterns within his own perception of a blank slate in
front of him, whether it was you know, white paper, he would
just start drawing and making these elaborate patterns, and he was creating. And
that was a passion he never really had before the event. It was driving
him to do something, to become an artist, to find an outlet of
sorts for what he had seen and try to convey that in artistic ways.
So that's just one of many that I found. But a lot of people,
yeah, they it completely changed their concept of conventional aircraft first of all,
and the perception of reality thereafter. But I think that's fascinating. It's
so fascinating that someone's life can completely change by an event, any event,
Loan, an event like this, and regardless of what it was he actually
experienced, and some he may never know, but it can change your life
so much. So some of these people, you even spoke to friends and
family or people around them who I'm assuming also recognize this change in these people
absolutely, you know, from the day after the event. Yeah, some
of some of these people it was gradual, but for some it was immediate.
And you can't argue with something like that. These could even be attributed
to a traumatic event in someone's life. Say you're in a car accident and
you you never walk, and as tragic as that is, that's going to
change the way you live the rest of your life, both physically, emotionally,
and psychologically. So a lot of these UFO events could be considered a
traumatic event and that can often unlock things in your brain. I've talked to
Bishop a lot lately about this idea of trauma unlocking things and opening up your
awareness. There have been people who have reported being able to speak an entire
language after having a traumatic event that they'd never spoken before or learned or remembered
having learned. So a lot of this has to do with the mind.
And that's kind of where I'm heading in my research. Is this whole cerebral
aspect of the UFO phenomenon, you know, not getting too metaphysical or in
the consciousness realm, but there is something to it and something that I think
happens to each and every one of these people, Like we said, from
simple lights in the sky all the way up to possible abductions. And you
know, I think that's what's a fascinating aspect of the whole thing, is
that it's more than just lights in the sky or even if these things are
mundane, the effects or some of these events are. The effects that they
have on people and their perceptions are really important, especially when you're dealing with
such a large percent of the population that is being affected somehow. Yeah.
Yeah, And that's the other thing the percentage of people having the experiences is
much higher than we think. A lot of people think UFOs are on the
down the downfall, as it were. You know that uphology is coinciding with
the lack of reports being made. I don't necessarily see that true. You
can take this book, for instance, a lot of events I cover,
we're pretty darn recent, to be honest, dating all the way up to
like last year. I've got a few that go pretty far back. But
these things are still happening, and they're happening all over the world. This
isn't just a Western phenomenon. And we know that we have reports from all
over of these things happening, and it does affect the family dynamic or a
community dynamic as well. When these things are reported. If you have one
of these quote unquote abductees in your town, your town, entire town has
looked at differently. You know, look at stuff like Allagash or Snowflake Arizona.
That town is now known by that face, whether it's Travis Walton or
or what have you. This affects everything, absolutely everything, whether it is
a hoax or not. It's fascinating. It's a big sociological study for sure,
and what I try to tap into in the book and in my further
research, I always think of, you know, I keep thinking right now
of that scene in Closing Encounters where Truffau or the you know, the the
French guy modeled after shockvallet is he is talking to the military and he's he
is so trying to get his point across at I think it's the only moment
he actually speaks English and he says, this is an event sociological Remember that.
Do you remember that? I do. I was trying to get this
across. But that's why, you know, I guess. My next question
leading up to what I'm getting at, I guess is do you have photos
in your book? You like UFO photos? No? No, no,
no photos in the book. When I first sat down to write it,
I wanted to have a photo of each individual in the book. First of
all, everyone uses the real names in the book. There are no pseudonyms.
I made that clear from the start. Like, you know, if
you're going to come forward with the event, I want you to know that
that I want your face front and center. This book is about you,
not the phenomenon and not me. This is about you. So I told
them, I want your real name. If you're not okay with that,
I'm sorry. I got to move on to somebody else. And that might
seem a little, you know, rude at first, but again, we're
trying to get the most credible cases out there to make this field of study
both digestible and relatable, and I thought having their faces front and center would
do that. That would have taken a lot of legal things and what not
to do, so I decided not to put photos in the book, but
I do go on to describe, you know, what I thought of these
people when I first met them face to face or when I first called them
on the phone. You know, what their voice was like, how there,
you know, a husband grabbed the hand of the wife who had the
experience, and how she was trembling. I think small things like that really
help in that aspect. And we've we've mentioned before my first my passion here
in New York is I'm a playwright. I focus on characters, and that's
kind of what I took into this book is to focus on that person,
what makes them who they are and how this event changed who they are.
And the reason I asked you the question is that I figured, you know,
that would be your answer at least, that you didn't have photos,
because I agree with you that these stories are really the heart of the content
of the phenomena, because you know, we get a lot of people when
we post the story saying where's the photo, where's the video, And it's
like, you know, who cares if there's a photo or video? Most
of the time the photo or video is poor, it doesn't really help the
case very much. And even regardless of whether there is a photo or video,
it hinges on the content of what the witness has to say. So
that's really kind of the meat of the story. I think this. It's
just that maybe it's people are so you know, they don't want to read
it's some of it. But but just kind of agreeing with you that that
the content, those little details you're talking about are what's important, and for
people who have an experience, that's really what they are fascinated by. When
it comes to other people's experiences as well, it seems, oh yeah,
absolutely, And you know what, I do see both sides of it,
Alexandra, I fall victim to that A lot of you know, prove it
to me, show me photographic evidence and that Unfortunately, that's that's the only
sort of things that are going to get the scientific community interested in this.
Can we have evidence, irrefutable evidence, or repeatability to study? You know,
most of the time these UFOs are gone in the blink of an eye,
So what is there to analyze? Nothing? So a lot of the
time all we have to rest on is the story. And that's that's a
big struggle for some people. I don't I don't expect everyone to believe every
story I tell in the book. Do I believe every story? Yes?
Absolutely. These are the most genuine people I could find out there and that
have had some of the most extraordinary experiences. Now, whether or not it
is quote unquote alien in terms of e T that's a completely different story.
The alien in my subtitle is more of a you know, this was foreign
to this human being. This event was not something they were used to by
any conventional terms. So again, yes, for those who argue that a
story is not enough, I would have to argue and say a lot of
the times it's all we have mm hmm. And and I fall back on
you know, I start to think of, well, what are the best
cases out there, and the best cases out there that I feel art of
that cases don't have photos or videos. So for example, Rendall Shim,
which of course you're very familiar with. I think that's what we talked about
last time you were on where you were working on the play for that,
but there's really no photos of a craft or video of a craft there.
The same with let's say Travis Walton, who you mentioned earlier, or Phoenix
Lights has maybe a couple of very controversial videos, but the heart of that
case is in all of these is the number of witnesses, the credibility of
the witnesses, and the content of what they have to say. Yes,
absolutely. And you talk to some of the family members of these people and
you say, well do you believe them? And they all say, I
believe that they believe this happened. And that's a very convoluted way of saying
it. But again, that's what we have. And you just mentioned three
of the top cases arguably in uphology, and none of them have photographic evidence
or anything to really back them up. We just have very genuine people who
we can we can only trust our telling us the truth. Sometimes that's that's
enough for me. Now you mentioned something really important. And I think with
your book as well, that you went with people who weren't afraid to share
their name. And I think this is what's really interesting is about your book,
because there are a lot of people witnesses, let's say, you know,
such as these stories that we post on on a daily basis of people
seeing things or experiencing things, but it's more rare for the person to be
bold enough to share that experience with friends and family. And often those people
who do it's because it's been so impactful they just kind of can't contain it.
So that's what I think adds to make the cases that you cover even
more interesting. And I guess I was wondering if you could share with an
example of an individual maybe you can think of whose surroundings, maybe family and
or community, were very affected by the experience. Yeah, definitely. There's
one story that I can think of in the book about a gentleman named Scott.
He's a retired radio airman for he was in the first Class for the
Coastguard and he had a really dramatic UFO siting back in nineteen seventy four in
Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, where he was at a drive in with a friend
late at night, and excuse me, not late at night, this was
just at dusk and they're start They're in their car, you know, hoping
to maybe score a score a chick or something that night, and they're about
to start the movie and this chevron shaped craft starts floating over the movie screen
and over the entire parking lot. So it's terrifying. You know. At
this point, everyone is starting to get out of their cars and they're staring
up at this thing. Some people start freaking out and they get out of
their cars to leave, but nobody's cars would start, so at this point
it's directly above them. And Scott remembers feeling like time sort of slowed down.
Everything became hazy, very the air became thick, this sort of fish
bowl feeling that we hear about with some UFO sightings. But the weirdest thing
about it, Alejandro Scott goes to use the restroom after this chevron shaped craft
floats away, and nobody in the whole drive through is talking about what just
happened. They're all just dazed and they continue to just wait in line for
the restroom or go back to their cars, which I might add, restarted
once this thing was out of the area and Scott couldn't remember anything that just
happened, So he and his friend they finished the movie and they go home.
It wasn't until many years later when he saw a book on UFOs that
it was sort of a trigger and all the memories started to fly back in
of this event. So what Scott did is he furiously looked for people who
were there that night in his hometown who had also witnessed this. He was
able to find a couple people, but nobody wanted to talk about it.
He also tried to coroborate it with his friend who was there that night and
hasn't had any luck finding this guy. So what you have here is a
case where a lot this was a mass sighting, unquestionably, but everyone denied
it or they had some sort of instant amnesia to the event having happened.
So this is kind of the story of a town struggling with accepting that this
happened, and we only have Scott to rely on that this actually happened.
And that's a lot of weight on one man's shoulders when such a dramatic event
occurred and no one's really talking about it. So that's just one of many
that I could find where a mass sighting is kind of resting on the shoulders
of one witness. Have There also been situations which you know, an individual
maybe who's influential in their community or with their family, just because of title
or because you know their characters. Some people are kind of larger than life
type of characters, and they were so impacted by their event that they kind
of brought it to everyone, and everyone kind of I guess how did they
deal m that's a tough one. I can't say that I really found anyone
of you know, such prominence that it completely changed the structure of their town
or anything like that. I do cover a story about a man who had
a very interesting and almost spiritual experience with an abduction. Afterwards, he left
the town he lived in, which was here in New York City, and
he moved away and became the pastor of a church and started talking about his
events and how he related this to an angelic presence. Almost so, right
there, you have a direct experience influencing a man and his congregation, as
it were. If we were to get a little more on the religious side
of all this, that's your interesting. Yeah, very much so that this
one man's experience he took as a religious one and imparted that onto the people
who were willing to listen to him. M hmm. Now with him,
how did you find him? I mean did he does he believe it was
spiritual but also extraterrestrial? Yes? Yes, he Again we can sort of
connect UFOs and the abduction phenomenon to so many different things, science, religion,
theology, everything, and this is what this man chose. While he
does believe that this was et and origin, he also believes that the greater
Power, whatever that may be, is also the creator of these ets.
I remember when I was, oh gosh, very young, and I went
to confession at my Catholic church and I asked my pretty straight up amen,
like, UFOs, what do you got for me? Do you believe in
him? What does the church believe? I really put the the inquisition on
him, and he told me, he said, yeah, I believe there
there is possibly life out there, and it just shows how great God's power
actually is, you know. And I don't want to get too much into
religion, but that is a very big facet of this phenomenon. A lot
of people see it that way, and a lot of people use prayer to
try to fight it off as well. For those who may think this is
demonic or evil in some way, you can't fault anyone for feeling that way
when their lives have been intruded upon so vigorously. So right, Yeah,
So that's funny because that that's going to be my talk at at the conference.
It's going to be about UFOs and religion, their impact on religion,
the idea of aliens and then and you know, religions had to spawned from
it. But I was inspired by someone who did something similar to what you're
talking about, although he it was a ghost thing. So he wrote a
book and I interviewed him about it about something like why is a good Catholic
boy believe in ghosts or something like that. But that was his thing,
is that I think it was his mom who saw the ghost or at first,
and then he felt that, you know, his house was haunted and
he's a publisher in New York there for a big publishing company, and he
thought, am I even you know when this started happening, He's like,
but I'm I'm you know, I'm Roman Catholic. Am I supposed to believe
in ghosts? So he did the same thing. He went to the church
and he's like, am I supposed to believe in this? And he was
shocked to find that they were like, well, you can believe in it,
and we even have you know, parts in the Bible that talk about
it and other research. So he shared his whole experience that way, and
that's where I was headed, was, you know, because I think a
lot of people feel like that with religion. Is you know, am I
supposed to believe in aliens or whatever? And that So that was kind of
the angle I took for for when I built this whole presentation. That's fascinating.
I can't wait to hear that man, because a lot of outsiders view
Eufology as a religion, and that's tough, you know, we can't really
deny that at times. But at the same time, that's why there are
people out there willing to look at all angles scientifically, theologically, theoretically,
and religiously. It's such a broad spectrum. And that's first of all,
you know, I can't plug the congress enough. You bring every angle to
the table, and then it's left for the audience. To decide and what
they do with that information afterwards, we get down to it. It's about
starting conversations. It's not about bickering, arguing one person's point over another.
We don't have time for that anymore, you know what I mean. Like
we're at, especially here in America, we were at some interesting times,
you know, whether politically, uh environmentally, we're at some very interesting times
in this world, and we gotta we gotta keep looking forward. And if
UFOs have anything to do with that, let's put that mirror up to ourselves
and really ask the big questions. Mm hmmm. And that kind of brings
up your your talking to Congress, because you're gonna be tackling, uh,
that topic at the Congress. So I guess maybe explain what your talk is
going to be about. Yeah, sure, I'm really I'm really going out
on a limb with this one. And for my first talk, I'm wondering
if I'm being a bit too ambitious, But I guess that'll be up for
you and the audience to decide. But what I want to focus on is
the talk is called UFOs versus ufology, the convergence of experience and study.
So we have those like in the book, who have come forward with their
experience. And then we have the other side of it, the study of
ufology, which many consider a scientific study, and they can't rely on these
witnesses stories to prove anything. So right there, you have that line in
the sand of if we want the scientific community and the mainstream to take this
topic seriously, what can we give them, How can we get scientists involved
in this? And even in the book, Alejandro, I interview many scientists.
I interviewed, let's see a astrophysicist, as astrobiologist, psychologists, they're
all in and they're all willing to talk about it and hear me out that
the witness and the experiencer have to be the backbone to the scientific data,
to the analysis. So that's kind of what I want to do in the
talk is look at both sides of the spectrum and find that middle ground and
how we can come together and make eufology sort of a unified field. I
really feel like that's what's holding us back. We have too many people arguing
that one side of it is not more important than the other, and I
think there's many arguments to dissuade that. So let's have a conversation about it.
I'm not there to preach to anyone about it. I want to hear
people's thoughts. You know, if there's a Q and A at the end
of the talk, I want to ask questions of the audience. That's what
I want to do there, man, I want to open up the dialogue
and I want to get fresh perspectives on it. I want to I want
to hear from the younger people, you know, getting back into politics.
Let's hear from the younger people who have voices that get put down so often,
because I guarantee you the younger people out there have a lot to say
and that could make some big ripple effects in the field. M what is
your perspective being You were laughing earlier about how you're considered a younger person in
this field and you're thirty two. I mean there's that whole saying, what
was it? Don't trust anybody over thirty? Yeah, what do you think
the younger people are looking for? What do you think you know when it
comes to this, I guess field of study. It's tough, man,
because the younger people now have lived on nothing but the internet. I mean,
you and I can remember life before the Internet and how we gathered our
research before that. It was in libraries, it was over the phone,
it was waiting two freaking weeks for a letter to arrive. You know,
there is so much instant access to UFO content now over the Internet that where
do you even begin? How do you separate the hoaxes from the possible authentic
cases. It's endless, It's such a sesspool when it comes to the Internet.
So what I think, what I think we got to do, and
what I think as a person on the younger side of it is hear them
out. What did they think aliens are? What do they think they represent?
And that's separate from UFOs. Again, we always tie these two together
so often that immediately UFOs are aliens. We don't know that. We do
not know that in every case. So what do they think UFOs are?
What do they think the most interesting cases are? Where are they finding their
content? And then how can we guide them into what we feel is the
most positive and beneficial way to look at this phenomenon. And we have to
start looking at it other than a nuts and bolts field. You know,
in so many years we haven't been able to grab a fine saucer and analyze
it at least that the public knows of. We could do a whole show
on that, obviously. But yeah, man, let's let's hear from the
younger people. Let's get them interested. We've got people like Tom DeLong out
there. Love him or hate him, he is getting younger people interested,
and that's contentious with the information he's bringing forward. It could be nothing but
disinformation. But again, he's getting people interested in the topic. And if
that's what we could take what he's bringing forward, kudos to him. That's
that's all I have to say. Again, love him or hate him,
right right? And I agree, I mean I applaud his effort. I
mean, he's putting in a work and effort and and you know, maybe
he's starting from the beginning, but so does everybody. But he's really in
there, trying hard, and and I think that's great personally. Yep.
And again, you know, only time will tell what information he really has.
But when it comes down to it, let's take whatever we can get
and then work from there. Mm hmm. And and you know, his
journey of discovery will be also a journey of discovery for those who who do
follow him. And so at least everyone will be learning along with him,
even if they don't bring this field any further along. But then again,
he may, but even if he doesn't, at least he's bringing others into
on that journey with him. Yeah. Man, it's amazing how much this
parallels you know, politics in America right now, doesn't it. Yeah,
yeah, it really is about it's a learning process, you know, and
we all just got to work together. And I see that nowhere greater than
in the field of ufology. We are a team and there are those little
sandboxes of people arguing, but when it comes down to it, all all
of us want our answers, and we've been looking at this our whole lives.
It takes up so much of our time, and it's because we believe
that there is a core mystery to this to be solved, and that's what
keeps me going. Man. Mm hmm. You know, I think that
people like you or I think that what's great about a lot of the people
I respect, mostly in the field are ones who can focus on what they
do but appreciate what others do as well as opposed to, like you're saying,
those who focus on what they do and they're upset at everybody else because
everybody isn't doing it the way they do it, which they think is the
only and the right way to do it. But I mean the world is
more colorful and broad and there's more discovery when we all appreciate our different perspectives.
Yeah. Yeah, I couldn't put it better myself. My inspirations are
the old guard of euthology, Stanton Friedman, Peter Robbins. They probably don't
want me to say their old guard, but come on, man, I
mean the grandfather of euthology. I have nothing but the utmost respect for him,
and he's still pumping out new content and that's where I got my knowledge
from. And now I need to take that and run with it. It's
like basketball. You get that pass and then you have to decide what to
do from there. Yeah, yeah, you know what. And listening to
younger people too, I think that's a big deal. It's funny you said
that because my cousin Jason, I think you've met him, so yeah,
because he also volunteered at our first one, as did you. But he
started up a college group and it was sort of an experiment. This was
in Colorado and move On was headquartered there, and you know, they also
had the concern of how do we get younger people involved? And he after
a year of having this club and trying different things, he found out they
want to be listened to, they want to have discussion, and they want
to talk and ask questions. And it was kind of funny because it was
brought to certain people and they were like because they really wanted to know what
they wanted, and they were like, oh, we can't do that.
I mean, they don't know anything. They need to sit and listen to
us because we're the ones who have the decades of research and we're the ones
who know something. And it's like, well, you know, that's there's
your problem. There's the problem right there. Yeah, you're right. And
the way to impart information in discussion, yep, absolutely. I think you
guys do a good job of that with your panels at your conference is you
know, you'll have Stan Friedman sitting next to a Jeremy Corbel and they'll have
a discussion. It could get heated, but come on, that's where the
real passion comes out, you know. But there you go. You've got
decades between these two in age and all they're trying to do is come to
an agreement on what we have to do to get those answers. And that's
invigorating to me. And you're right, Younger people want nothing more than to
be heard, and yes, they have a lot to say outside the UFO
field as well, and we have to we we just got to listen man,
all of us. And it's interesting. It's interesting. You know people,
you know, they're online so much more and I guess they're doing a
lot of discussion there, but that human interaction seems to be a bit of
what they crave. Yes, I mean, I've had arguments over text messages.
I can't tell you how many times until that person says to me,
you know what, let's go grab coffee. And then again, it's being
in the room with that person. So much gets lost over these stupid screens
in front of us, or over even phone calls. That face to face
interaction is where it really happens. And I think that's why conferences need to
continue, and we need to be in the room with one another because you're
going to get impulsive reactions and answers that you won't get over the internet,
which is so heavily edited and so heavily biased in so many ways. We
got to keep that face to face interaction going, and that is the human
side of all this. Well. And when you were talking about your book
and your approached the book at the beginning of the show, it reminded me
so much of being a filled investigator. And you know, I think that's
why I have a passion for these individual stories as well, like your book
is focusing on because when you are face to face with a witness who experienced
something they can't explain, and they're expressing to you the impact that had on
them. Even though you know the thousand word story on you know, our
website might be boring to you, the experience of talking to these individuals is
so rich and so fascinating that you know it even sticks with you. Those
interviews I used to do, those are what really have stuck with me throughout
the years. I can only imagine. I'm envious, to say the least.
I've always want You've done the same thing, though, I mean that's
what you're doing with your book, your research. You're doing the same thing,
Oh totally, man, And I can readily admit, like the catalyst
for the book was one woman's story. When I met her at your congress.
I sat with her at the diner at the casino and she was crying
her eyes out next to her husband, holding his hand, gripping it so
tight, trying to tell me this story. And had she sent me an
email about it, I would have been like, oh, okay, cool,
Yeah, maybe we'll get to it. But being in that room with
her and feeling her like n tapped the table from underneath. She was so
nervous and so so much bald up energy and adrenaline telling recalling the story,
that is what spoke to me, And that's what made me decide to write
the book and to focus on the individuals, because you're right, there is
nothing like being in the room with that person, and it could completely change
your whole outlook on the UFO phenomenon in general. I could hear a million
stories, see theming in a newspaper. That's not going to convince me anything.
The people having the experiences are the people are the things that are going
to convince me. Mm hmm. So that's really exciting. How long has
your book been out now? Almost two weeks now, so yeah, it
hasn't been very long and the best place. I mean, they can get
it on Amazon or I guess you could go to Richard Dolan Press. And
then you have a website too, somewhere in the Skies dot com. Yes,
yeah, that's where you can find all my work. I still post
articles there and my own thoughts on the field and some articles as well.
M And what else are you doing? I mean you're pretty busy out there.
You're doing podcast or podcasts. You're writing for a website or I should
say websites, like what are where can people from my your stuff? Yes?
Sure, and let's go. Your listeners are gonna get sick of my
portfolio. I write for the Paranormal brain Trust over at Jim Harold dot com
with the likes of Marie D. Jones and Micah Hanks and Nick Redfern.
That's a lot of fun. That's where I get to stretch my muscles,
go a little outside the UFO field, you know I talk about My last
one was about secret Soviet psychic spies, so that's a lot of fun.
I do have two podcasts. One is called UFO mod Pot, which is
a fresh look at the UFO phenomenon, and that's with Jason McClellan and Maureen
Elsberry your two good buds. And I have another podcast called Into the Fray
and again that's sort of diving out of my comfort zone and covering cryptids,
ghosts, paranormal and that's with Shannon mcgrow and Sam Shearing and other than that.
Man. You could find me now on Mysteries at the Museum on the
Travel Channel. I'm a reoccurring person on there talking about UFO cases. Just
filmed another episode there about the Robert Sallis case, so look for that in
the very near future. God, one of the best UFO cases out there
for sure. So busy busy, Yeah, it's super busy. And that
doesn't include you having a regular job and working as a playwright. I know
you've written some plays that have made it to the stage. Are there still
you know plays? Are some of your plays still showing? And do you
do more than just write them to participate in other ways in the stage work?
Yeah? Yeah, you know, the plays are always an ongoing thing,
whether it's you know, through developing them or having them actually up there
on the stage. I do have a production coming up in February. It's
a horror thriller play I wrote about a modern day Jack the Ripper, So
yeah, that's that's gonna be a fun one. That'll be premiering in February
here in New York City in the dad of winter. And other than that,
I just came out with my first feature film based on one of my
plays, So I'm getting more into the film world and that just opens up
the doors to a lot of other stuff. You know, you get to
expand the universe of the play and show it, you know, instead of
telling it. So that's really exciting. I've got a lot of that stuff.
My playwriting and movies can be found at my other website, Ryandspreague dot
com. And yeah, man, anything I can do to keep busy.
And I'm starting to mix my passions. Like you said, I've got to
play about the Rendel shown case. I'm working on another play about disclosure that'll
be in dark comedy because I don't see it any other way. Yeah.
So again, man, just getting the UFO topic out to people who wouldn't
necessarily ever think about it, and that's you know, a play audience,
a theater audience, and to those who've never really looked up in the sky.
There's a lot going on up there, and I just want to do
my part to try to show them that mm hmmm, what is the name
of that feature film? That film is called Reverie Lane. Right now it's
making the festival circuit, but it will be available in digital format very soon.
And again you can find out more on that at ryandspread dot com.
Wow. So and that you're also you've also got a girlfriend, which of
course that takes up time. You know, you're very in love I and
you're you share that, you know on your Facebook. Now that's wonderful because
I share that as much as I can. Also. Oh yeah, man,
I mean she puts up with me. God bless her with all the
UFO stuff. But she's really into it. She edited my book actually cool.
I do have to give her kudos to that. She made me actually
sound like I'm a decent writer and that's all I but not only that,
she's passionate about the material and she herself is really into it. So you'll
be meeting her in February and everyone else, you'll finally get to meet the
face of the person I'm always fawning over. Yeah, I was excited for
that. Well, that's so cool. I don't know how you can do
all of that and stay so busy. You mess definitely have the heart and
soul of a young person. But is it maybe that your homes are so
small in New York or you've got to share them with other people that you
just want to kind of be out and about keep him busy as much as
possible. If I can do something that's going to get me out of this
god forsaken city for a week, like Arizona, I am all for it.
And a lot of these opportunities have brought me to places all over the
country, possibly the world, and it's exciting, man. And I can
tell you one other thing. Coffee works, wonders. I hear you on
that. All right, Well, we are totally out of time. Thank
you so much for coming on again. It was so fun to talk to
you. The time flew, of course, and I am looking so forward
to not just hanging out with you again at the Congress, but actually sharing
and being able to, you know, be a part of you sharing your
information with everyone. I know they're gonna love it and we're gonna have a
wonderful time. I'm excited, man. I've been a huge fan of everything
you've done since your first podcast, and I can't thank you enough for the
opportunity. So I'll see you in February. Yep, our pleasure. We'll
see you soon. All right, Thank you so much much to Ryan for
coming on the show again. I'm so happy for him and his book.
It looks like people are really enjoying it, you know, if you go
to his Facebook, it's kind of cool. A lot of people are taking
pictures selfies with themselves in the book and posting those, and he's reposting those,
so there are a lot of fun go check out Ryan on Facebook.
You can also find him on the website we talked about, Somewhere in the
Skies and that's where you'll find out more about the book and how to get
the book. So a lot of cool information at that website. Again,
that's just Somewhere in the Skies dot com. And otherwise, like he said,
I mean, on his Facebook and then also on his personal website you
can get more about his plays and everything. So just a busy, busy
fellow, which is so cool. That's awesome that he keeps so busy and
he's able to, you know, continue to do stuff all around the board.
So just a busy, busy you know, in New York. They're
there, those people do a lot of stuff. They're busy people. They're
always here, hither and nither, here to and fro running around. They're
crazy, they're they're nuety of those New York people. But I love it.
New York's awesome. That's it for today's show. And the holidays are
coming up, like we talked about with Martin, Thanksgivings coming up, so
I hope you guys have a wonderful Thanksgiving. We probably will miss next week
as far as shows go. I'm sorry. I know everybody's like, where's
show? There's shoe, Well, you just have to wait another week.
However, I'm sure there's some archives you can catch on, Like did you
hear our first interview with Ryan Sprague? Did you listen to our interview with
Jacques Valet? Huh? He's really cool, in fact that he's got a
We just posted this in the news today, a Q and A about UFOs
for the Oxford University Press. Huh. That's pretty impressive. So someone at
Oxford, an author you know, interviewed him and they posted that on their
website, so you could check that out. After you listen to the podcast
that we did with Jacques Valet for Open Minds, So go check that out.
There's lots lots of archives, tons and tons of archives. We've got
over five million listens, so there's just and and a lot of that.
It's not just from the thousands and thousands of people who listen to the show
every week, but also from people listening to archives. I hear so much
that from people who will just kind of start at the beginning and listen,
and I wonder, you know, that makes me think of how I used
to be compared to how I am now. I mean, was I a
complete idiot at the beginning? Probably am I idiot now? Some think so,
but regardless, thank you all so much for listening. You know,
we've got new information on the website about the UFO Congress, so check that
out. People are registering like crazy, which is really good because we have
lots of really cool stuff and we're gonna have a lot of What I haven't
posted is the Phoenix Lights oriented stuff we're gonna have. It's a twentieth anniversary
of the Phoenix Lights and of course the conference is just outside of Phoenix in
the Phoenix area, So it makes sense that we celebrate that phenomena at our
conference, and we will, and we're gonna have some special events surrounding that.
That's the only thing we haven't announced. Otherwise, you can see all
of the other incredible speakers there. I talked about Erica lukesa. A lot
of people saw her recently and they really loved her talk, so you got
to come and check that out. Otherwise, we've got lots of really great
stuff, new talks, and that's what's fun. If if you see listed
on the website researchers you've seen before, most likely this talk that they're going
to do at our conference is going to be something new and different. Because
we keep up with what people are doing, you know, we we or
what they have done in the past, the actual details of their their research
or work, and so I've been able to communicate with them to talk about
what are something what is something new and different that you can discuss at our
conference. And these people that we've brought are doing new and different things.
They're continuing their research and they're going to show share the latest and greatest and
you can read about what they're going to be talking about at the ufocongress dot
com. Other than that, you know, thank you all again for being
here. Thank you to Caleb Hanks for the opening and closed music, and
I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving. We'll talk to you in a couple
of weeks. Audio's mood, use your motion, sound the glass trees suffering.
On my second thought this issue