WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:45.399 Hello, and welcome to open my UFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro 2 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:55.439 Rojas, and I am here with my good friend Martin Lumberjack Willis. You 3 00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:58.520 never know what you've got to say, And I just told him I'm actually 4 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.079 for the listening audience wondering. No, it's not just because I live in 5 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:07.799 Maine. But I'm on the road today and I try to find Wi Fi 6 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:11.000 and I did find it at a Low's Lumber and all that, and I'm 7 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.879 sitting on a pile lumber right outside the door so I can get a Wi 8 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.840 Fi signal. That's so funny. Thank you, Jack, thank you for 9 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:26.959 going to such great efforts. And be careful. Yes I know I might 10 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:30.040 buy something. Yeah, so all the way with a lumber. Yeah, 11 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:36.640 that's the scary part. So our show today, So our guest today is 12 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:40.319 Lee's Beegele. Exciting and exciting for me because it's always fun to talk to 13 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:42.840 him, and of course when we have him on, it means we're usually 14 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.760 catching up onto UFO stuff, which is what we're doing, but we're also 15 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:53.000 catching up on Hit, the super exciting project he's currently working on, which 16 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:57.719 is this documentary with James Fox, and it doesn't even have a title. 17 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.319 We'll talk about some of the titles that they've used or one of the big 18 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:06.640 titles they used in the past and why, but how the scope of this 19 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:13.520 project has greatly increased since that time. So yeah, very exciting it is. 20 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.159 Yeah, and when you have the budget that they've had to work with, 21 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:20.840 they can just do things right and take their time in. You know, 22 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.560 James has made, you know, two of the greatest films I think, 23 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:28.520 and you follow Gee, and I'm sure this is going to be this 24 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:30.719 is supposed to surpass that. So I'm really excited to see it myself. 25 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:35.680 Yeah, you know, and that would be saying something because, like you 26 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:39.599 said, he's made two of the best. But and we'll hear from Lee 27 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:44.719 today, it sounds like they are on track to do something even better. 28 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:51.159 Yeah, amazing, Yeah, cool and stuff. I'm sure I'm hoping he 29 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:55.080 teases at least the opening, the opening of that movie. He does. 30 00:02:55.199 --> 00:03:00.800 He is very teasy in the interview. Yeah, he's a teaser, that 31 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:07.400 guy. I know what a UFO news, that's what we're here to talk 32 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:10.599 to at During the first segment of the show, what you got for me 33 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:15.759 there, buddy, Well, I'm gonna you know, usually I read stories 34 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:19.639 and things like that, but actually I'd like to report on I was this 35 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:27.319 weekend. Just got back late last night early morning from the well it's right 36 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.639 across from Pennsylvania. Right right next to Philly is cherry Hill, New Jersey, 37 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:37.759 at the Muffon Symposium. So I was there for the event. The 38 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:39.599 the issue was, I went, you know, for for two reasons. 39 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:44.960 First of all, to see and talk. They had this one on one 40 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:49.719 with Louis Alizondo, like a dinner you could actually buy a ticket for. 41 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.919 And also he spoke, so I went for that. And also I went 42 00:03:53.120 --> 00:04:00.240 to see Selm Acidic, one of the Ariel School students, wonderful gl So 43 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:03.800 I I went for those reasons. Now, I got to tell you, 44 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:11.400 going south from I left Boston at ten am and my GPS said I would 45 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:17.160 arrive in Cherry Hill at two thirty pm. So as up driving, it 46 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:21.720 gets longer and longer and longer. Then it got to seven o'clock and oh 47 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:25.959 no, I was worried I was going to miss Louis Alzondo, and I 48 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:29.800 sure did. I didn't get there till ten thirty ten because there was thirty 49 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.680 Yes, I missed everything there was the rain, the rain, in the 50 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:35.000 traffic. It was just sitting. I have, you know, a couple 51 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:39.600 of videos of me just sitting, you know, at the George Washington Bridge, 52 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:43.519 just parked there for like two hours. Oh my god, so eight 53 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:48.480 hours longer than you expected. Yeah, so, I you know, I 54 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:53.560 was really discouraged by that, but I did luckily. I had a wonderful 55 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:59.000 conversation and with Lewis Alazundo just in the hallway, you know, in the 56 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:01.079 hotel. We just talked, and you know, I broke the ice. 57 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.000 Said, you know, I'm a friend of Alejandro Rojas. He's on my 58 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:06.600 show, him on his show, and he goes, oh that guy, 59 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:09.600 he says, I had lunch with him. He said, what a great 60 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:11.839 guy. He really thinks the world of you, thinks a lot of you. 61 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:16.120 So anyway, so he and I had this wonderful conversation. It was 62 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:19.920 about thirty minutes, maybe a little bit longer or so, but mostly about 63 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:25.439 antiques. We never talked to UFOs the entire time. He's a he's an 64 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:29.920 avid collector, and I really into a lot of the things that he collects. 65 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.639 So and so anyway, it was a great conversation. But I was 66 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:38.480 saving all my questions for him. You and I spoke about questions for that 67 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.800 night, the one on one you know situation, and uh then I saw 68 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.160 him outside, you know, quite a bit with the phone, talking on 69 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:48.600 the phone and hanging up, calling someone else and calling a calling. He 70 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:53.040 didn't look he looked kind of uneasy, And next thing you know, he 71 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.399 was gone. He had to leave for an emergency. So that event of 72 00:05:56.439 --> 00:05:59.959 the one on one, you know, the dinner one on one conversation, 73 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.800 has never happened. So never got to ask him those questions. What a 74 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:06.160 bummer? Why I hope everything's okay? Like he didn't have any kind of 75 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:11.959 family issue. Yeah, I know, no one really had any details about 76 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.439 it that they would share anyway. So and then of course you had the 77 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:17.800 conspiracy people talking, you know in the hallway, saying oh yeah, oh 78 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.720 yeah, you know, the government pulled him away, didn't wanted anyone to 79 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:26.040 get too close. Now I didn't get to see his talk. Some people 80 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:31.120 say that there wasn't really too much revealed in particular. Most people said that, 81 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:35.560 but you know, there was other opinions, as someone else, Randy 82 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:40.480 Nickerson, who you know very well. You know, I thought that this 83 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:45.399 whole situation was groundbreaking, and he was very optimistic by you know, the 84 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:49.079 whole situation with Alazando being there at the move On symposium and all that. 85 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:54.519 So so that was good. I've heard a little bit of feedback like that 86 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.360 as well, and I'm I'm just really curious. I can't wait to see 87 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.360 the talk. I wasn't able to. Yeah, I was going to watch 88 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:06.519 the live stream, but I couldn't. And I wonder, because I don't 89 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:12.319 know, this is a historic situation, especially for our field, so it's 90 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:18.560 almost like, you know, him speaking in person, like I said, 91 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:25.639 it's historic for his field. It's almost like anything he says is really important. 92 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:30.160 So I wonder. I just it makes me curious. I think some 93 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:38.000 people had some huge expectations that probably I met. But yeah, I'm so 94 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.800 curious to hear his talk. Yeah, I think a lot of it had 95 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:44.360 to do with expectations. They thought, you know, something was going to 96 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:47.240 be revealed that no one else would hear, or something along those lines, 97 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:54.800 you know our you know, something like something that he had not already spoken 98 00:07:54.839 --> 00:08:00.360 about would be spoken about for the first time. And I suppose none of 99 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.000 that happened. I didn't see it or I didn't hear much about it otherwise 100 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:05.759 other than what I had mentioned already, because I know, I don't know 101 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.759 if you heard much about it. The Coast to Coast episode he did recently 102 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:13.160 with George Knapp was pretty good and he did reveal a few things there. 103 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:16.000 And I think that, you know, for these sort of things like what 104 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:20.439 we'll do is at the Congresses, have somebody interview him, and that probably 105 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:24.680 would have been a good idea. He probably would have been he would have 106 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:28.600 revealed more, like you know, the interviewer would have been able to ask 107 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.639 some more pointed questions and maybe coax him into sharing some more juicy stuff. 108 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:39.080 Uh huh. Speaking of juicy stuff i'd like to talk about I do have 109 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.879 It's actually on my website podcast UFO dot com, if I can do a 110 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:48.320 little plog of that. But I also I have a video interview of that 111 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:58.320 I did at that location with Selmacidek and Randy Nickerson and the first interview I 112 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.960 did with her. You know, I had a lot of criticism about certain 113 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.879 things, or you know, and some of it was good criticism. Well, 114 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:09.399 you had technical criticisms, didn't you, Yes, I did terrible But 115 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:13.840 anyway, this interview. I had my HD camera I all set up and 116 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:16.039 it's it's really great. It's on YouTube and as well you can see it 117 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:22.840 on my website. But I'm telling you, she is just an extraordinary She 118 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:30.159 just articulates the event so well. And so the question that someone said, 119 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:35.279 hey, she didn't have telepathic any telepathic communication and other people did, don't 120 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.600 you think that's a really good question to ask her? So I did. 121 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.360 I asked her that question, why do you think you didn't have it? 122 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:48.120 And she kind of revealed that maybe there's something she doesn't know about that maybe 123 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:52.120 it was really hard for her to break her her gaze, the eye lock 124 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.559 that she had with this creature, and she said it was exhausting and it 125 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:01.200 was really hard for her to do that. But once she did, you 126 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.519 know, she kind of got a way to go check on her brother and 127 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:07.759 sister to see if they were okay. But she describes the moment that this 128 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:13.399 thing was with this encounter was happening with the being and it's really fascinating. 129 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:22.960 So and she is she's kind of afraid to do any regression hypnotherapy right now, 130 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:26.240 but she may someday. Did you make it to her talk. I 131 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:31.000 did, yes, And I got to tell you it was good. But 132 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.679 I get to tell you I like the interview I did with her much better, 133 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:39.559 Okay, and just because I think more was revealed and and she was, 134 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.480 you know, she was a little bit nervous, and she was you 135 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:48.159 know, reading from uh from from notes, and just to have her she's 136 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:52.200 such a great speaker too when she speaks naturally, and I just thought it 137 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:56.159 was a much better, you know, to have a natural interview. Yeah, 138 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:01.679 you know what, usually interviews are, especially with people who are not 139 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:07.159 normally speakers, who who are witnesses or have something really interesting to say, 140 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:13.799 normally, it is better to have someone interview them. Plus it's helpful to 141 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.559 know that, you know, you feel that your interview got more infro because 142 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:20.679 some people can just go to your YouTube and watch that. But the exception 143 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:26.519 to the rule was Emily Trim, another one of the witnesses. She actually 144 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:28.919 went up and did her own thing and read from notes, and she was 145 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:35.960 great. She did a great job. Stood out to me more than any 146 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:41.919 other event that whole, that whole u UFO Congress. I mean, I 147 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.720 mean she was emotional, but I mean she's got a standing ovation I remember 148 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.759 that whole thing. That was just amazing. That was a really cool You're 149 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:52.320 right, I forgot. I forgot she did she was reading, Yeah, 150 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:56.279 but then she she totally was. It was so heartfelt. It was just 151 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:00.679 amazing. Yeah, that was cool something that was like one of the best 152 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:03.399 moments at the Congress. But awesome. That's really good to hear because that 153 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:09.639 was the other person I was really interested in hearing with her because the Rua 154 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.679 kids is you know, and I guess we should bring people up to speed. 155 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:18.279 What we're talking about is this case that happened in Rua, South Africa 156 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:26.840 is Zimbabwe actually and the aerial school. So there were these kids, they 157 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:33.360 were very young. Do you remember their age? Well, she was eleven. 158 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.759 There were younger ones than her, there were older ones than her, 159 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:41.639 and I don't know exactly how many grades were at that particular school. There's 160 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:46.240 two hundred and thirty students at the school, and about sixty two of them 161 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:48.440 did drawings. So they say a lot of times that there was only sixty 162 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:54.080 two witnesses, but it's probably more than that. Randy was saying, it's 163 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:56.600 probably more than that. It's just that the ones that actually were interviewed and 164 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:01.120 did the drawings that count was sixty too. And what these kids say they 165 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:09.240 saw was this craft land near the school. They watched it, most of 166 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:11.679 them. I don't know if all of them, but I think most of 167 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:15.960 them report some sort of creature coming out of it and looking at him, 168 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:20.960 and maybe multiple creatures. It's no one can That's the kind of the controversy. 169 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:26.759 Some saw two, some thought they saw more. She remembers one, 170 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:30.679 but she thinks if there was more, they looked alike, you know, 171 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:35.360 very much alike. And do you want me to just describe how she described 172 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:39.799 Yeah, okay, so she said. First of all, the unusual thing 173 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:45.159 was it had a pigment, a skin color pigment that she said she had 174 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:50.279 never could never imagine or had never seen anything like it. It was almost, 175 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:52.960 like she said in the first interview I did with her, was almost 176 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:58.279 like a porcelain had large, a large head. It was very small in 177 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:03.759 stature, maybe four feet, a very large head, and black eyes. 178 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:07.799 And and then it was wearing what looked like a scuba suit. She said 179 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:11.159 it might have been shiny. It just may have been the way the light 180 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:15.799 was hitting at the sunlight was hitting it but so she said, the easiest 181 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.879 way to describe it was like a skin divers you know, rubber suit. 182 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:26.600 And also but when she said that, she she was only four feet from 183 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:33.360 it her in particular, and when she locked gaze with it, you know, 184 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:37.360 it was just really it really just the fact that it really drained her. 185 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:43.080 And she said she never remembers ever being more exhausted that day after that 186 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:46.000 the day after that happened in her and in her entire life, she had 187 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:52.600 never been that tired. Wow. Yeah, really interesting case. And and 188 00:14:52.600 --> 00:15:00.519 it also it came to fame because John Mack, Harvard professor who into this 189 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:03.519 sort of thing, you know, as part of a documentary, was sent 190 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:09.120 out there to investigate, and this was part of the investigation and these children, 191 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:16.200 their testimony was recorded and it was phenomenal and yeah, really interesting case, 192 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:22.480 very consistent. And now the really interesting thing about the film that Randy 193 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:26.320 Nickerson is doing the Ariel phenomenon, is that now it goes, you know, 194 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.960 twenty years later or I think it's about Yeah, it was nineteen ninety 195 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:35.039 four, so twenty four years later. But you know, it's taken ten 196 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.240 years to make this film. So it depends on what stages he interviews people, 197 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:43.120 but it has shaped all of their lives. Everyone that he interviews, 198 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:48.600 it has actually changed, you know, some of them has changed greatly and 199 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:54.480 some of them, some of them took like a possible like demon or devil. 200 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.879 They had that kind of feeling about it. But I think, you 201 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:03.000 know, one of the most interesting things of that case is that multiple children 202 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.759 at the time said that, you know, we it was telling us we 203 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.759 had to take care of our planet. Yeah, you know, And and 204 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:17.360 they had never really thought those thoughts before. And another curious thing is they 205 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:21.519 said, there's no one ever saw any TV with any UFO or any aliens 206 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:23.159 that they had no idea what they were seeing. It was fresh. They 207 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.759 had absolutely no idea what it was they were looking at. Yeah, really 208 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:33.080 cool stuff. So I guess a couple of other things because it's been a 209 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:34.360 little bit, I guess since I've done a show. The last one was 210 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:41.600 Danton Friedman at Roswell. But oh, and I do want to add more 211 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.600 just to clarify. You know, you brought up a good point that this 212 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:52.559 whole thing is part of. And even Emily Trim is Randall Nickerson's film. 213 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.399 He's working on a film that'll hopefully be out a documentary and then not two 214 00:16:56.440 --> 00:17:03.399 distant future, but it also so we'll be part of this project with James 215 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.519 Fox at Lee's working on. We don't talk about that in the interview, 216 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:11.279 but they have talked about that in the past, so that's exciting. There's 217 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:14.359 some clips from there added in and you know a few things like that, 218 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:19.759 right, So cool stuff. I guess what I wanted to mention was the 219 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:25.880 blue Book television show. So I was at Comic Con for those who may 220 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:29.720 not know, and I've got a lot of really cool stuff from Comic Con 221 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:33.079 and i'll kind of give you guys an outline of that that you should go 222 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.839 check out. But one of the really cool things that I did there was, 223 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.079 and I was there for Dent of Geek doing a bunch of stuff, 224 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:44.599 was went to the blue Book activation. So I don't know why they call 225 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:49.240 exhibits activations there, but they do. But this was this cool exhibit and 226 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:52.119 it didn't look like much from outside. It was kind of these three kind 227 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.720 of shipping containers with Project blue Book written on it. And I've got a 228 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.759 picture in my Dent of Geek story and I've post on my social media this 229 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:07.880 tarp covering what looks like a UFO and you go through and it was really 230 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.519 really cool. So it's for this new TV show Blue Book that's coming out 231 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:18.039 on the History Channel that is really about the Blue Book cases and it stars 232 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:23.920 the String character is playing portraying doctor Heinek, who was a professor, an 233 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:29.920 astronomer and the consultant to the Blue Book from the forty seven to sixty nine 234 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.440 on UFOs began as a skeptic and it as someone who thinks this is a 235 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:40.119 real phenomena. I wrote a story about kind of his background and everything on 236 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:45.279 Den of Geek you could check out too. But the activation was really cool, 237 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.160 and they what you would do. You walk into the first part and 238 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.480 they debrief you on what Blue Book was and everything, and they asked you 239 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:55.720 how much you knew, and they also ask have you seen a UFO. 240 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.839 To my surprise, I was they give you one on one with someone when 241 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.599 you first walk in and sit down. But I was listening to the people 242 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.480 around because you know, that was an interesting question. And sure enough, 243 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.200 practically everybody around me, including one of my buddies from Den of Geek, 244 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.240 said yeah, I've seen a sighting and of course I said yes too, 245 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:18.400 because I have had a sighting. So they asked you to describe it, 246 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:23.119 and they use the actual report form. I did Facebook live on this too, 247 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.480 so people can see this on my Facebook. My whole visit through there, 248 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:30.920 but they use the form that they used in Blue Book and they tell 249 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:33.799 you, Okay, we're going to give you a sketch of your sighting once 250 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:37.160 you're done. So you go through this whole activation, which is cool. 251 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:42.079 There they do some audio from the show. The show sounds great, it 252 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:48.079 sounds very well produced. And the cases that they're covering are real Blue Book 253 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:55.200 cases. Some we know Lubbock Lights, the Flatwoods Monster. Another one is 254 00:19:55.319 --> 00:20:00.960 the Gorman Dogfight, which is this really cool situation. I'm gonna write about 255 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:07.200 this really cool sighting where essentially this guy in a P fifty one Mustang and 256 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:14.799 like really early late forties gotten a kind of a dogfight with the UFO and 257 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:19.799 then you know, you go through, you send a message to space through 258 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:23.039 and you really do you get a fashion one and they're really sending it to 259 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:32.079 space. I warned the aliens personally to stay away that humans are scary. 260 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.200 Yeah, you know they I think they're kind of scary, don't you. 261 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:38.480 And you say yeah, and I'm just hope you said they taste awful too, 262 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:44.559 right, No, I but I did mention, you know, about 263 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:48.000 the human diet. I did mention that I said, many of them eat 264 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:53.960 the flesh of other earthlings. Isn't that gross? And that's what I actually 265 00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:00.559 put that on. Yeah, yeah, because like to me that that's pretty 266 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:03.039 bad. And hopefully the aliens will be the same way and be like, 267 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:06.759 oh my gosh, those barbarians, they're they're animals. Let's stay away from 268 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:12.359 there, depending on what they eat, you know. Yeah, otherwise again, 269 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:18.079 I don't want them to think humans sound delicious. But yeah, you 270 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:23.079 can see my sighting on Open Minds dot tv. I posted the picture that 271 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:27.440 they drew for me and a little history on that siding that I had. 272 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:33.799 But I'm really looking forward to this TV show. In fact, Lee and 273 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:37.960 I speak about it about it in this interview. Yeah. Yeah, I 274 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:41.000 saw his email he sent out to everyone all excited about it. Yep. 275 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:48.559 So I also got the interview Neil deGrasse Tyson not about UFOs, about the 276 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:53.000 new series of Cosmos coming up. But it was really funny. People get 277 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:57.279 so frustrated and I posted this comment. I don't know if you saw this 278 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:03.960 about science, and it was really popular, what was it? And essentially 279 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:08.759 it was in reply because people were really upset. You know, some people, 280 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:14.000 Oh, Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn't believe in UFOs, Why are you promoting 281 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:18.039 him? He believes this or he says that, And of course what he 282 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:25.359 believes and says is based on science. And so I essentially said, just 283 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:30.440 to be clear everyone, I am a man of science. And if oh 284 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.799 I did see that, yes, yes, science offends you, then I 285 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.559 can't There's nothing I can do for you, essentially, if you're offended by 286 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.400 the natural world that we live in, because there's a lot of denial about 287 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:48.039 what about science. You know, when majority of scientists are telling you something. 288 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.000 These are not people who are friends or who are colluding or work for 289 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:56.799 the same people. Scientists are spread throughout the world. They compete with each 290 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:02.960 other. They they to check each other's work. And I mean it's a 291 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:10.160 very open process and it's supposed to be open to change, and if something 292 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:15.799 is proven wrong or right exactly that's a great point. So I don't know, 293 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.759 if you're curious, I subscribe to science. So just to clarify with 294 00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:25.039 people, I'm not a science basher or I do not believe science is some 295 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:32.240 big conspiracy, right, But that's weird. But anybody could check out that 296 00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:37.400 interview. It was still a lot of fun and I don't know otherwise for 297 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:41.079 UFO news, Oh, there was one other piece of news George knaplet out 298 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:49.400 which was essentially, oh yes, a document for Harry Reid arguing to get 299 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:52.839 kind of more secrecy for their UFO program and to keep it going on. 300 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:57.440 He released that. Now we've already seen bits of this document or had it 301 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:02.640 described in other arts articles. But another thing that To the Stars did is 302 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:07.319 they announced that they're building a lap like to examine materials, including these alleged 303 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:12.680 UFO materials day down. So really interesting stuff. So you can find more 304 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:18.279 about that at to the Stars and of course at KLAS we're George knappwrit's well, 305 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:21.240 you know a lot of people have been questioning, you know, why 306 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:23.519 do they need money, and you know, blah blah blah, And here's 307 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:29.720 here's a good here's a good exhibit of what they're they're actually doing something with 308 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:33.119 funds. Yeah, so all right, well we're out of time. Thank 309 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:37.119 you, so much for being on the show again this morning. You got 310 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:41.160 always fun and thanks for taking the time. I hope you didn't get any 311 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:45.039 splinters anywhere. No, I almost got hauled away a couple of times. 312 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:49.200 I'm sure you heard it. I didn't do that, all right, great, 313 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.480 thanks, Well, let's get to our interview with mister Lee Spiegel right 314 00:24:52.519 --> 00:25:10.799 after this break. Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. If you hear 315 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:15.519 a little bit of excitement in my voice, it's because I am here with 316 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:22.880 Lee speak Old. Well, Wow, what an intro. I didn't know 317 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.319 that the mere mention of my name gets you all shivery. Yeah, Oh 318 00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:30.359 you kidding. I get so excited. I'm like, that's my buddy, 319 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:33.680 Lee. Well, I'm I'm always happy to be with you on the radio 320 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.440 in person. You're you're one of my favorite people in the field, and 321 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:42.839 I love what you're doing now, all the all the stories you've been coming 322 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.960 up with. I'm I'm very proud to know you. You're doing a great 323 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:52.880 job. Well did oh my friend on the radio? Whoa? And in 324 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.039 fact, you know I did a talk recently and you were in it. 325 00:25:56.039 --> 00:26:03.519 It turned out I think it was Spilberg. Oh, Roswell yeah, at 326 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:07.119 Roswell, I did my Spilberg talk, and of course I have that video 327 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.960 with you in it, and it's fun because you're talking about your interactions with 328 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:18.640 Steven Spielberg when he offered to help you all with your un initiative back in 329 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.839 the seventies, and you know, you kind of chuckle along the way. 330 00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:26.799 And it was fun because when I showed that video, people were chuckling along 331 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.039 with you. So just so you know, were were they making fun of 332 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:33.119 me? No, they were laughing with you, not at you. I 333 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:38.480 don't think so. But that was a lot of fun. But you're always 334 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:44.880 working on exciting things. You know, we've probably shared this last time. 335 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.480 You no longer are writing with the Huffington Post, but you are now working 336 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:56.319 on something that is equally, if not more exciting, with an equally well 337 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.599 with a more exciting even though I love Ariana isn't even at the Huffington Post 338 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:06.960 and you know your old editor back. But yes, now you're working with 339 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:11.680 some really cool people. So you're working on James Fox's new documentary. Yes 340 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:17.720 I am. I am co producing with James a new documentary. Film is 341 00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:22.319 going to be like the third installment of what I like to call his UFO 342 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:27.759 trilogy or series, which began with the first film, Out of the Blue, 343 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:33.319 and that was followed by I Know What I Saw, and then we're 344 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:37.240 going to bring the third one to the public. Hopefully it'll be ready by 345 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.279 the end of this year or early next year, right about the same time 346 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:48.160 when there's going to be a new History Channel series about Project Bluebook that's starting 347 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.319 to get some previews out there, which I'm a little excited about. M 348 00:27:52.559 --> 00:28:02.279 M me too, so that I think everybody's curious about what this will be 349 00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:07.680 about. Of course, the original premise and their original title was seven oh 350 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:12.920 one, based off of, you know, the seven hundred and one unsolved 351 00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:18.359 Blue Book cases. Speaking of Blue Book, however, I think you know, 352 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.960 as many of us researchers know, seven oh one was kind of an 353 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.559 arbitrary number. None of us can even figure out why they threw that number 354 00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:30.240 out. Yeah, but it's about right, you know, six hundred or 355 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:34.960 so unknown so that blue Book had. But that's These aren't just blue bookcases, 356 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.519 or are they even a minority of Blue bookcases. You're covering a lot 357 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:45.559 of stuff now, right were. We're covering stuff that goes back at least 358 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:52.799 back to the nineteen forties and moving all the way up through the nineties and 359 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:59.720 into the present day, and not just American UFO accounts, but we're going 360 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:04.400 into national with this thing. And because this so much has been happening that 361 00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:11.599 we've been able to get hold of, we've got some interviews with people from 362 00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:18.759 literally around the world that are going to just take your breath away. It 363 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:22.359 really is amazing. I'm so proud to be working with James Fox because he 364 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:29.079 has a real keen sense of knowing what he wants to see as a final 365 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:36.200 product of the final vision. And we have been interviewing people, getting exclusive 366 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:41.880 interviews with folks who have been in the news, and the things that they 367 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:48.960 have told us is pretty startling that you haven't heard from them saying these same 368 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:55.160 kinds of things in the past. And I'm trying not to give give too 369 00:29:55.240 --> 00:30:02.640 much away, but i will say that, as you know, going back 370 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:08.000 to the nineteen forties, there's always been a contradiction between what the public has 371 00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:18.000 been told about UFOs and what has been quietly officially determined going on behind closed 372 00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:26.759 doors, and that's what we're kind of aiming at. We're very concerned about 373 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.480 you know, who's who's in control of what's really going on here? And 374 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:40.359 and we think that it's not so much that that the government has been either 375 00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:47.400 lying or just covering up or all the conspiracies. We are more concerned about 376 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:56.160 how the nations of the world haven't really come clean about UFOs because of the 377 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:02.119 possibility that they just don't know the answers. And a lot of people don't 378 00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:03.960 want to hear that, you know, people want to want, want want 379 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:11.720 to get you hear all people constantly claiming why haven't everybody come clean? Why 380 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:17.079 hasn't there been disclosure? Why haven't UFOs landed on the White House lawn or 381 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:19.880 in front of the Kremlin? What's wrong? Why is it too much secrecy? 382 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:26.599 Well, you know, from what we are researching and uncovering, there 383 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:33.000 are plenty of reasons for secrecy. And I'm of the mind now I didn't 384 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:40.200 used to be, but now I can kind of understand why not all of 385 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:45.960 the information has been leaked or given to the public and I and I only 386 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:51.400 know this now from the people we've been talking to, right and and and 387 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:56.440 and this has really opened up my eyes to what's kind of going on. 388 00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:05.400 I mean, one one very highly placed politician, and I will not mention 389 00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:12.400 his name because it'll be kind of a surprise when people see him in our 390 00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:17.720 documentary. But he said to us, you know, most, if not 391 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:23.279 all, presidents are not in the loop about what's really going on about UFOs. 392 00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:30.119 When they're elected, they are elected to be basically the executives or the 393 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:36.519 executors of the country deal with the business of the country and the business of 394 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:44.799 relationships with other countries and all of that. But the presidents apparently don't know, 395 00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:46.759 or they don't have a need to know, They don't have a high 396 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:54.599 enough security clearance to know what's really happening with UFOs. And in fact, 397 00:32:55.039 --> 00:33:01.160 i'll even give you this bit. We're going to show video because we didn't 398 00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:07.519 do the interview ourselves. This was done several years ago of Bill Clinton when 399 00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:12.799 he was on stage at a presentation in Hong Kong. I believe Oh I 400 00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:19.160 love that video. Yeah, it's really something. And someone asked him from 401 00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:22.039 the audience, someone said, what can you tell us about Area fifty one 402 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:30.480 or what really happened at Roswell? And Clinton didn't make fun of it like 403 00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:34.400 he did a year or two ago on a Jimmy Kimmel Show. He actually 404 00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.000 said, and you can just look at the video and he says, you 405 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:45.839 know, I wouldn't be the first president whose staff or underlings kept information from 406 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:50.680 him and just waited me out until I was out of office and then they 407 00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:54.000 started up again with the next guy to come into office. What a statement. 408 00:33:54.480 --> 00:34:00.680 I think that is an important statement and that concept as well, that 409 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:09.840 information is kept from high level people in the government, sometimes even to protect 410 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:17.320 them, you know, as far as you know, deniability goes that that 411 00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:22.800 they are kept in the dark so that they if something should happen, they 412 00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:27.760 can say I didn't know, and honestly reply, I didn't know because they 413 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:34.119 weren't told. And sometimes it's in the spirit of protection that that information is 414 00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:37.840 not given to them. But you know, it's funny because being journalists, 415 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:47.639 it's with you things are always much more complicated than they appear to be on 416 00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:52.280 the surface, right And and I don't know if you feel this way as 417 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:58.320 well, but when you start to dig and figure out what's going on, 418 00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:02.280 it's so complicated and difficult, and there's so many difficult decisions that have to 419 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:07.719 be made that often it feels like and I feel like this that I'm going 420 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:12.119 to cover what I can, I'm going to try to share whatever I can 421 00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:19.679 get cleared to be shared, and thank goodness, I'm not the one making 422 00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:23.760 the decisions. And you've become less judgmental because it's like, these are really 423 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:30.840 difficult decisions to make, right. And you know, part of this picture 424 00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:38.320 that can be very frustrating is when you consider not just the hard NOS skeptics, 425 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:47.159 but the debunkers who continually ongoing maintain that there's nothing there that should be 426 00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:52.239 looked at, there's nothing worthy of any scientific investigation. The people who are 427 00:35:52.280 --> 00:36:02.519 making these reports are either mistaking planetary objects or whether inversions or manifestations, and 428 00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:08.639 people are just they're just not really getting the idea that there can't possibly be 429 00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:15.679 any visitation from Afar happening to planet Earth. And it's important to them because 430 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:19.800 they they know they're getting away with it because all they have to do is 431 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:22.239 say, well, where's the evidence, Show me something, show me a 432 00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:27.760 ship, show me, show me a creature, show me you know anything, 433 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:30.639 And they know that that's a very difficult thing to come up with, 434 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:35.800 and then they maintain, well, you can't really keep something like this secret. 435 00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:39.719 Well, you can. Our friend Stan Friedman, the nuclear physicist, 436 00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:45.960 love loves to tell people that there were thousands of people involved with the with 437 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:50.840 the creation of like the first atomic bombs, and everybody was sworn to secrecy, 438 00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:54.039 which is why it was kept secret, and nobody leaked out that information 439 00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:59.480 before we used the atomic bombs. So yeah, you can keep something secret 440 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.159 if if you do it the right way. You know, and we have 441 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:09.239 a great example of that in this Pentagon program that Louise Elizondo worked for. 442 00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:15.320 And I think it's the perfect example because this is kind of the untold story, 443 00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:21.199 or at least the less of a deal is made about this. We 444 00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:30.039 didn't know you and I have interviewed people who were part of BASS of Bigelow. 445 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:34.519 We knew about BASS. Not even very many people knew Bigelow had this 446 00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:39.079 group BASS that was looking into the paranormal. I worked with and interviewed people 447 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:45.480 were very close even friends with some of these people who were in the know 448 00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:50.960 or who were even contracted to do this, and we had no clue. 449 00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:59.000 Even people who were possibly or probably even received funding from BASS. Well I 450 00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:04.599 know that did rec funding from BATHS and we're working on these projects. They 451 00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:09.960 didn't even know. It's a perfect example that this group was this UFO project 452 00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:14.960 was going on and interacting with all of us, and we had no clue 453 00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:21.360 that this government UFO thing was going on. Yeah, it's like you and 454 00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:27.639 I both know very well. Chuck Halled, for example, retired Air Force 455 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.880 I forget what his final rank was, but he was one of the people, 456 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:34.760 one of the eye witnesses. He was very involved with the bent Waters, 457 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:40.599 England UFO event of was it nineteen eighty or was it eighty nine, 458 00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:45.599 I forget the date off hand, but there was like a series of events 459 00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:52.480 at that Dual Air Force base in the United Kingdom where many military eye witnesses 460 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:58.199 had close encounters with some amazing things going on in and out of the woods 461 00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:01.800 in the area, and Chuck called was one of them. And he now 462 00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:09.360 has said that there was so much going on there that now, except for 463 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:15.719 any people, any people in the public who think that who believes that there's 464 00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:21.400 nothing to UFOs, that the United States or other governments are not studying this 465 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:25.320 stuff at all, you're completely naive to think that, he says. He 466 00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:34.280 says, of course, there is behind the scenes ongoing research and investigation happening 467 00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:40.280 and part of the problem is that there's so many little compartmentalized divisions that are 468 00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:45.800 looking into different aspects of it that one hand doesn't know what the other hand 469 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:50.920 is looking into. And that's part of the problem. It's a much bigger 470 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:55.159 thing than people realize. It's you know, it's that kind of thing. 471 00:39:55.159 --> 00:40:01.320 I keep coming back to the final speech that Dwight eisenh made his his last 472 00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:06.119 speech in office, when he was saying goodbye to the presidency and to the 473 00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:12.199 public, and he and he warned everybody to be aware of the military industrial 474 00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:15.679 complex. You know, it's a famous quote, and and he knew what 475 00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:21.599 he was talking about. And now we see that really the military is so 476 00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:25.760 much more powerful than it ever used to be, and it's hard to get 477 00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:31.559 around because they don't want to share information with other countries. Why should they. 478 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:36.639 Everybody wants to be the best, everybody wants to have the best stealth 479 00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:42.159 bombers. Well, why don't need stealth bombers because we don't trust anybody and 480 00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:46.000 they don't trust us. That's the problem. People people say, well, 481 00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:52.599 why why won't the why want the why won't et visitors come down and make 482 00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.719 friends with us? Well, why should they. I mean, there must 483 00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:59.480 be. If they're out there, they must be smart, smart enough to 484 00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:02.880 know what kind of people we are, and why would they want to invite 485 00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:07.719 us to be part of their collective club or their their federation. All we 486 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:13.639 are is a warm wongering species down there. You know, they don't want 487 00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:19.159 to play with us. And you know, another story that I think is 488 00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:28.840 really important that you touched on here just now, is that you're including is 489 00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:34.000 this idea what you said Pry earlier, is that you know there is much 490 00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:38.440 more going on behind the scenes than people realize in that Publicly, the government 491 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:42.519 the military is like, oh, UFOs are silly, we don't care about 492 00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:49.840 any of that stuff. But behind the scenes there are debates and struggles and 493 00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:52.719 we know that more about that, And like you said, you've got interviews 494 00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:59.000 that are going to demonstrate this as well. This has not been Charles hat 495 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:01.880 is a good example, but this has not been a question that has been 496 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:09.719 definitively answered. Behind the scenes. There's still movement and debate and even dollars 497 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:15.880 being spent on all this. Oh yeah, and dollars that may or may 498 00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:22.239 not be out of our tax dollars. The whole black budget of just the 499 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:25.719 United States government. Who knows how much money they're spending. I mean the 500 00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:30.679 whole Pentagon thing that you talked about, was it a twenty two million dollars 501 00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:36.599 that was initially raised. I mean that's not a lot of money to spend 502 00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:44.079 on several year study of UFOs. I mean, most people know that the 503 00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:46.559 government spends money like they could spend like a million dollars on a toilet seat, 504 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:53.519 you know, and and not think anything about it. So it's where 505 00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:57.840 the money goes, it's where the money came from. And once they learn 506 00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:04.480 different things, how do they decide what, if anything, they want to 507 00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:09.920 give out to the public to demonstrate transparency in the government. Everybody talks about 508 00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:17.320 why isn't the government being transparent? The problem I see here is people have 509 00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:23.480 to start realizing it's not just the American government that's involved with this. We're 510 00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:31.920 talking about most countries around the world have been inundated with UFOs for decades. 511 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:44.000 And what leader of any country on Earth is willing to make a statement to 512 00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:51.000 tell his or her citizens that there are things that are flying around in our 513 00:43:51.000 --> 00:44:00.199 skies and they're able to I mean with flight characteristics that clearly demonstrate some technology 514 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:04.719 that's light years in advance of any country on Earth. They have the ability 515 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.480 to accelerate from a standstill, they can go out of sight in the blink 516 00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:14.639 of an eye. They can do right angle turns at high speed, and 517 00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:22.679 all of this without any visible means of propulsion or wings, or air disturbance 518 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:30.559 or noise. We don't have anything like that. So why would any leader 519 00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:35.800 want to say to the populations of their countries, Yes, there are things 520 00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:40.840 in the atmosphere above our country. We can't touch them. We've sent jets 521 00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:45.320 up to intercept them, we can't get really close to them. They out 522 00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:51.599 maneuver everything we have. We realize that we're supposed to protect the airspace above 523 00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:54.719 our country and to protect you, our citizens, but we're sorry, we 524 00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:59.000 don't have an explanation for this, and so we can't tell you what we 525 00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:02.920 think they might be. That's tough. I mean, that's a tough decision 526 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:08.360 that leaders have to make. I mean, really, this is far more 527 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:15.000 complex and complicated than people think. Yeah, yeah, well, and yeah 528 00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:21.519 it is. It's just far more complicated. And that's what's wonderful about what 529 00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:27.559 James Fox does. I mean, he's got some of the best documentaries out 530 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.840 there with I Know What I Saw and Out of the Blue. Yeah, 531 00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:37.079 and that's what's exciting about what you all are doing with this documentary because you're 532 00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:45.159 tackling, you know, this complicated world and you are penetrating these kind of 533 00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:53.719 government firewalls really and in order to get interviews and information out to the public 534 00:45:53.960 --> 00:46:01.119 that in a concise and digestible way. And I say all this having not 535 00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:06.440 seen a documentary, but knowing your work and James's work and some of who 536 00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:12.239 you've talked to, So it's actually it's very, very exciting. And people 537 00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:15.239 were excited with seven oh one, but this is much more exciting than the 538 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:20.000 scope of seven oh one. Uh. This is for the here and then 539 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.840 now in today's world, and I almost like kind of a stat check here 540 00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:32.920 we are with UFOs today. Yeah, and I will tease you with something. 541 00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:40.559 James would probably slap me on the wrist, but he's on his way 542 00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:44.400 to China right now, so he can't reach out and hit me. He's 543 00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:49.480 too busy to listen to the podcast. So will I will give you this 544 00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:57.960 but without more details. You mentioned before that I had put together this presentation 545 00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:05.840 at the United Nations in nineteen seventy eight, which featured speakers. This is 546 00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:09.000 something that is easy to find on the Internet of Jay Allen, Heinek, 547 00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:17.800 Jacques Vallet, Stanton Friedman, Army Lieutenant Colonel Larry Coyne, who was the 548 00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:24.639 commander of a four man helicopter crew who almost had a near collision with the 549 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:30.599 UFO over Ohio in nineteen seventy three. That was one of the cases that 550 00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:37.079 really flipped me around and got me really interested in this whole subject because that 551 00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:42.800 was such a credible case and it's held up over all of these years because 552 00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:46.320 of who these men were and what they experienced. And I was able to 553 00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:52.639 get Colonel Coin to come to the United Nations and to tell his story. 554 00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:57.480 You got a minute to make your point, just so you know, Okay, 555 00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:04.239 what I'm saying is people are going to see in this documentary we are 556 00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:13.079 finally going to show some footage from that United Nations presentation. People and including 557 00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:16.760 myself, have been looking for this footage for forty years and we have found 558 00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:22.679 it, which is so exciting because Open Minds to plug us dot TV, 559 00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:27.559 we're so far the only ones with footage. But it's super sixteen or sixteen 560 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.760 millimeter. It's kind of funky. It's got that stranger things kind of vibe 561 00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:37.000 that you're talking about professionally shot stuff. Oh oh yeah. What Open Minds 562 00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:42.360 had was about a minute and fifteen of only some visual excerpts and no sound. 563 00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:45.920 Right, what we've got is the real thing. WHOA the real deal 564 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:52.159 Holy Field And I'm so excited to even present small. We've got to go 565 00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:57.119 to break. Okay, so thank you. Good drop going into the break. 566 00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:01.119 So you're listening to Open Mind gfol Rady and we're talking to Lisa Spiagon. 567 00:49:01.239 --> 00:50:04.760 We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to Open Mind UFO 568 00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:09.079 Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and we are here with one 569 00:50:09.079 --> 00:50:15.440 of my best friends in the world, Lee Spiegel, also one of my 570 00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:24.960 favorite UFO writers researchers. Just UFO dudes, UFO dude. I like that. 571 00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:28.239 I should put that up. I should put that on a T shirt 572 00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:30.760 and have it say I'm a UFO dude. Yeah, that would be pretty 573 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:36.079 cool. Well, thank you for that. You're and you know you're one 574 00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:40.480 of my all time favorite people in or out of the UFO world. Oh 575 00:50:40.519 --> 00:50:45.440 well, thank you very much. So this is fun. So your friends 576 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:52.960 with Jacques Vallet, I am, and you speak to him occasionally, And 577 00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:58.199 I guess he's going to be interviewed in the documentary. Oh yes, we 578 00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:01.639 we've already done our interview with that, with Jacques and and and and he 579 00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:08.000 was very gracious, uh to uh to agree to the interview. He had 580 00:51:08.039 --> 00:51:13.000 a lot of things to say that I think he's been thinking about for many 581 00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:19.199 years because he he doesn't do very many interviews or or even show up at 582 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:27.239 many UFO conferences or symposia, and so he wanted to to talk about some 583 00:51:27.320 --> 00:51:34.039 things that that go back historically for him decades. And we were happy to 584 00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:37.960 talk with him. And and again, like like many of the people in 585 00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:44.400 our program, he will will be saying some things that are pretty startling, 586 00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:49.960 as are most of the people that are in our show. Uh, it's 587 00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:54.239 amazing. James Fox and I will be sitting there at the editing screen and 588 00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:59.199 we'll be going over all the interviews that we've done so far, and and 589 00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:01.480 no matter how many times we look at these things over and over again, 590 00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:08.800 we're still amazed at what we're hearing from these people. It's like, you 591 00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:13.000 know, pinch me, pinch me, this can't be real stuff, but 592 00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:16.599 it is real stuff. And that's why I got involved with this presentation, 593 00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:23.000 because because it's James Fox and I respect and I admire him, and when 594 00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:27.079 he asked me to come on board to be part of this presentation, I 595 00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:30.400 said, yes, of course, let's work it out. And now we've 596 00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:35.280 been working on this together for just over a year, so yeah, it's 597 00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:38.239 it's a great experience for me because I can see the light at the end 598 00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:42.480 of the tunnel. I can see we both have the vision of what this 599 00:52:42.599 --> 00:52:46.920 is going to look like when it's all done, all edited, and we're 600 00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:52.559 very happy with how it's moving along right now. Mm hmm. Yeah. 601 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:55.800 And it's kind of fun because Jacques has has come up, at least for 602 00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:04.039 me more frequently. I think he's a very important figure, and especially with 603 00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:09.400 Jail and Heine getting so much more attention these days, and Jacques of course 604 00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:14.960 being his kind of protege. How old is Jacques now? I think he's 605 00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:21.000 seventy nine, really, yeah, and he is held up so well. 606 00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:27.639 Oh yes, yeah, he's really amazing. I was just talking to him 607 00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:29.920 the other day and I said, how are you feeling? He said, 608 00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:32.239 well, okay, and I said, well, no, I don't want 609 00:53:32.239 --> 00:53:37.079 to hear okay, I always want you to tell me you're feeling excellent, 610 00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:40.679 he said, He said, okay, I'm feeling excellent today. I mean 611 00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:50.159 he's really just physically he seems to be doing very well, and he's got 612 00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:52.599 a lot of energy and spunk. And the reason I say that is because 613 00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:58.119 you know, he's commented on a couple of things lately and in particular, 614 00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:02.199 and I do want to talk about this blue Book. So this new movie's 615 00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:08.760 coming out. Of course, you knew Heinik and you also you know in 616 00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:13.159 this un thing you worked with him and many other things. You've interviewed him, 617 00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:17.639 you and Jacques and he went to go visit Spilberg in that incident that 618 00:54:17.719 --> 00:54:24.079 I mentioned earlier, You're Spielberg encounter. But and of course, if people 619 00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:29.039 want to see Lee talking about this, you can go to our open Mind 620 00:54:29.079 --> 00:54:34.000 YouTube and we have a great YouTube where Lee kind of talks about that whole 621 00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:40.599 encounter. But this Project blue Book, I think this is really exciting that 622 00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:45.880 you know, Heinich is being a central character. And I wrote this in 623 00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:51.000 my story on Den of Geek about Project blue Book. Is it feels like 624 00:54:51.159 --> 00:54:55.480 something's right in the universe. When what I think is kind of the first 625 00:54:55.920 --> 00:55:02.000 to me real major follow up to the X File Fame is this UFO project 626 00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:07.920 by History that has Heinech and real blue book files. Of course they're going 627 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:14.800 to dramatize things and everything. But having seen the recent trailer, and I 628 00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:19.239 know you've been paying attention to this upcoming show, what do you think. 629 00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:23.840 I think that it's okay. You know, it's not being presented as a 630 00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:30.480 documentary, it's being presented as a drama series, and so I already kind 631 00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:37.639 of figure that libertys will be taken to increase the drama of it. I 632 00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:40.760 mean, I've always said when it comes to UFO things, you don't have 633 00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:45.039 to do that. You don't have to over enhance the drama because by its 634 00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:50.320 very nature, a lot of UFO stories are very dramatic. You don't have 635 00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:54.519 to add any any extras to it. And from what I've seen in the 636 00:55:54.559 --> 00:55:59.960 trailer, I have the feeling that they're going to go overboard a little bit. 637 00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:07.079 But I think that what will happen is the viewers will really be attracted 638 00:56:07.159 --> 00:56:13.840 to it because it looks like the production values are pretty high. The fact 639 00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:19.480 that is being brought to us by Robert Zamechis, who gave us all all 640 00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:27.400 three installments, Back to the Future and Contact. So I think, and 641 00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:30.920 I'm a big admirer of his work, and I think that that it'll be 642 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:37.360 okay for it to be dramatics as long as they don't go way overboard, 643 00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:43.760 because I hope that their purpose is not to try and get the public to 644 00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:51.599 believe, for example, that maybe doctor Heinek was shown alien bodies floating in 645 00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:57.039 from aldehyde tubes, you know, or stuff like that. I don't think 646 00:56:57.079 --> 00:57:00.679 that they're going to pay as much attention to the facts in just the facts. 647 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:06.239 I think it's entertainment. They want to attract a big audience. I 648 00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:08.000 think they're going to get an audience. I'm going to watch it. I 649 00:57:08.079 --> 00:57:14.360 know you will. Uh. Even our our our mutual friend, George Knapp, 650 00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:20.159 the the multi Emmy award winning news reporter from kl A S t V 651 00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:23.559 and in Las Vegas, He's gonna watch it. He's already. How do 652 00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:30.280 you know that? Because because he he wrote on on an email the other 653 00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:36.880 day, uh, in which he in which he said that that even though 654 00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:42.440 many people feel like it's been a long time since the History Channel actually dealt 655 00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:46.679 with history. He said this this upcoming show, he said, it's not 656 00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:51.119 a documentary, it's drama, so you can expect that they're going to take 657 00:57:51.159 --> 00:57:54.440 Liberty's uh. And then and then he went on to say, but this 658 00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:59.840 trailer is very cool, and you know, I'm going to watch this thing. 659 00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:04.599 Yeah, you know. Yeah, everything's been taken over by reality TV, 660 00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:07.039 and it is nice that History Channel is going to get back to doing 661 00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:13.679 some history, just like National Geographic has gotten back to doing some science and 662 00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:19.079 history, which to me is really exciting. Of course I get to be 663 00:58:19.159 --> 00:58:23.239 involved with a lot of these things are promoting, but like of course Cosmos, 664 00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:29.639 Mars, the whole Genius series. I don't know if you've watched those, 665 00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:37.079 but they're vikings. They're all really good programs and for the most part 666 00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:43.760 educational. Now with Bluebook, I have a little bit of a different perspective 667 00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:47.440 on the dramatizing of these UFO events, and it's because of Travis Walton. 668 00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:52.880 Travis Walton's of what happened on the craft in the movie is complete bs. 669 00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:57.599 I mean, it's totally made up, and that's I think an example of 670 00:58:57.679 --> 00:59:01.599 going too far. But being the great person he is. He makes a 671 00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:10.360 point that it does, though portray the fear, the sheer terror that he 672 00:59:10.599 --> 00:59:17.559 felt at that moment, or he remembers feeling. And so it looks like 673 00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:22.320 for the most part, they're going to stick in bluebook to how the cases 674 00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:28.800 occurred, but of course dramatize them, which might be good because no doubt 675 00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:34.480 you know, you know this also from speaking to witnesses. When people experience 676 00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:38.960 something that they can't explain, it is a very emotional, dramatic experience. 677 00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:45.679 It is. And one of the things that I always like to caution people 678 00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:52.760 about is that when they do have the nerve to come forward and admit that 679 00:59:52.800 --> 01:00:00.239 they've had some kind of experience, it's really important that the skip and the 680 01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:07.719 debunkers should not just come crawling out of the wall again and start saying things 681 01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:15.039 that will ridicule these eyewitnesses. We don't need ridicule in this category of UFOs. 682 01:00:15.079 --> 01:00:20.719 It's just not a good thing. It doesn't serve any purpose. If 683 01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:24.840 you don't believe something happened to someone, fine, that's your opinion, but 684 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:32.519 don't go out of your way to ridicule their stories. I like to say 685 01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:39.800 I think that there's one very important truth about everything involved with the UFOs everything. 686 01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:46.039 I can very clearly state that the one important truth that covers it all 687 01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:53.599 is this, no matter what kind of UFO case we're talking about, no 688 01:00:53.679 --> 01:01:00.800 matter what you if you believe or don't believe, every has an opinion. 689 01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:07.800 And that's the most simple, honest, ongoing truth. That's the truth. 690 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:15.000 Everybody has an opinion. And how they share these opinions with themselves, with 691 01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:20.360 their friends, with the rest of the world, that's really important because words 692 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:25.760 can change and can affect a lot of people, and so I always like 693 01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:31.079 to hope that people are going to share their opinions in the best, non 694 01:01:31.360 --> 01:01:37.920 ridicule way when it comes to UFOI witnesses. That's really important. You know 695 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:45.239 what, and what you're saying is more opprescient today than ever, especially given 696 01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:49.280 you know, and I feel bad for them, and of course you and 697 01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:53.440 I have had to deal with his for years and we've come to well I 698 01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:55.960 was going to say we've come to peace with it, but not necessarily, 699 01:01:57.360 --> 01:02:00.519 probably you more so than me. Get yeah, it gets under our skin. 700 01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:05.920 But you know, all of these celebrities who like this poor Star Wars 701 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:10.880 actress who just because she's a young Asian person and people felt that she was 702 01:02:12.639 --> 01:02:15.480 you know, it was it was silly to add her to the Star Wars 703 01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:22.800 canon. They attack her with racist attacks and just you know her personally. 704 01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:25.360 It wasn't even her decision to create this character, of which I think she 705 01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:30.440 did a great job personally and I love the character myself. And so she 706 01:02:31.880 --> 01:02:38.199 cancels her account. It's happened with you know. In actually Comic Con this 707 01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:44.960 year, there were several different controversies like this that caused these actors or actresses 708 01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:50.039 to cancel their accounts. And so many people who are in the public eye 709 01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:58.360 don't even get on social media because people are so mean. Yes, yeah, 710 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:02.719 and there's there's no reason for it. There's no good place for it. 711 01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:07.400 It doesn't belong in any kind of social media. I think that that 712 01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:14.599 if people have nothing good to say, or nothing positive or constructive or supportive 713 01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:21.199 to say to people or about people who are just trying to get on with 714 01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:27.639 their lives with or without close encounters. If you don't have anything good to 715 01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:30.760 say, just shut up. Or if don't you want to go complain, 716 01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:37.440 go to some forum where everybody's complaining. Yeah, exactly, there's plenty of 717 01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:40.280 that stuff out there. You don't you don't have to just make it your 718 01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:47.800 mission to put someone down simply because you don't believe that that that their story 719 01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:52.119 is real, or you don't believe that they they should that they were in 720 01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:55.679 this movie because there are a particular ethnic background. You know, it's not 721 01:03:55.920 --> 01:04:03.239 your place to say. Opinions should not hold that much weight, I believe, 722 01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:11.679 except for Jacques, Except for Jacques getting back to Jacques's opinions in that. 723 01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:15.119 But he of course is not bashing people. He's being very respectful. 724 01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:18.920 He has concerns about the accuracy when of this new program, especially when they 725 01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:25.440 say things like that you know the Blue Book was top secret when it wasn't 726 01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:30.400 and some details like that, which I can understand those concerns. At the 727 01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:35.119 same time, Heinik didn't like Close Encounters for those same reasons, and you 728 01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:43.639 and I have discussed this before. Whereas I love Close Encounters, I'm very 729 01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:48.920 excited about Blue Book, and I think potentially and so as a researcher, 730 01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:57.960 you know, someone who spent your life to try to decipher what happened and 731 01:04:58.159 --> 01:05:03.840 document as accurately possible these events. When you've worked so hard to obtain that 732 01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:09.679 accuracy, that level of you know, you're trying to get perfect accuracy. 733 01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:15.119 I can see how it'd be frustrating when people screw with that. Oh yeah, 734 01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:19.079 yeah, but yeah, I see examples of this. Maybe you do 735 01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:26.679 too every day when I when I read reviews, book reviews or movie reviews 736 01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:32.360 by people who shouldn't be writing these kinds of things because they're not dealing with 737 01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:38.559 the facts or or they don't seem to care about what they're writing about. 738 01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:44.880 They're just they're just putting words together thinking that it makes sense. And I 739 01:05:44.920 --> 01:05:49.559 get really frustrated because when I worked at Huffington Post, I wasn't just a 740 01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:55.800 writer. I was a copy editor as well, And and so I developed 741 01:05:55.880 --> 01:06:00.679 this this knack or this instinct of reading other people's story. Reason part of 742 01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:05.320 my job was to correct or make suggestions of how something could could read better. 743 01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:13.039 And and and there's so much of this non good editing stuff floating around 744 01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:18.679 everywhere in journalism, oh everywhere. Oh yeah, it's it's amazing. And 745 01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:24.679 what I like about you is that you you at least you, you come 746 01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:31.360 across in your work as someone who cares about what he's writing about. You're 747 01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:35.800 you're not. You're not just pulling ideas from this place in that place for 748 01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:42.920 the sheer joy of ridiculing someone or pulling something apart. You're actually coming across 749 01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:46.840 like you've looked into this, You've you've made calls, you've done interviews and 750 01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:53.639 and and you have formed a valid opinion about what you're writing about. Most 751 01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:58.599 people who write this kind of stuff, they don't do the legwork as well 752 01:06:58.639 --> 01:07:00.639 as you do. Well, well, thank you very much, of course, 753 01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:03.719 I know it's the same as true of you, even more so. 754 01:07:03.920 --> 01:07:11.440 I mean you're even more adamant about making sure you get first hand interviews when 755 01:07:11.840 --> 01:07:15.199 you write a piece. And you know you're part of the old guard, 756 01:07:15.239 --> 01:07:21.840 the old school where of journalism where you have original, you know, pieces 757 01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:28.360 that sufficiently tell the story. And it's just journalism, as you know, 758 01:07:28.519 --> 01:07:31.480 is really tough these days. I mean, I visited that Huffington Post office 759 01:07:31.480 --> 01:07:38.840 and it was largely mostly twenty year twenty people in their twenties, and I 760 01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:42.559 mean people around twenty years old, maybe even less. I mean, and 761 01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:46.119 it's this quick hit, it's this very few words, get the information out 762 01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:50.480 as quickly as possible, and it's just journalism is in a hard space right 763 01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:55.440 now with everything online where it's it's kind of like, you know, the 764 01:07:55.480 --> 01:07:59.239 old West. Everybody's still trying to make it up and figure out this new 765 01:07:59.679 --> 01:08:03.559 digit world of relaying information which used to be you know, the realm of 766 01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:11.280 journalism and publications and it's all changed. So yeah, and I think that 767 01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:14.480 it's hard, but I agree with you know, you're a good mentor, 768 01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:17.239 and so is George Knapp that you have to do your due diligence. You 769 01:08:17.319 --> 01:08:24.560 have to do the research. And I like to I don't feel comfortable writing 770 01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:28.600 about something unless I understand it, So I've got to do the research and 771 01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:30.479 until it makes sense, and once it makes sense to be like, oh 772 01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:35.079 okay, now I get it. Now I have a perspective. Now I 773 01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:40.680 can, you know, lay something down. Yeah. One of the problems 774 01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:43.840 that's come along in journalism over the years, and you and you know because 775 01:08:43.840 --> 01:08:46.800 you've been part of this, uh, is this whole concept of blogging. 776 01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:53.720 Oh man. People feel like, wow, I can become a blogger, 777 01:08:54.039 --> 01:08:58.640 which means I'm not going to be working for the company that I'm blogging for, 778 01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:02.439 so I can write whatever I want and nobody's going to proofread what I 779 01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:06.960 write, so if I make mistakes, nobody's gonna know. Well, I 780 01:09:08.039 --> 01:09:14.079 mean, and that's running rampant throughout the world of journalism. That's a big 781 01:09:14.119 --> 01:09:18.439 problem. So we're running out of time. But for journalists who budding journalists 782 01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:24.720 or bloggers out there, visit a site called grammarly. It saves my butt 783 01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:30.319 and it's an awesome site that will actually help proofread your document even if you 784 01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:33.159 have an editor. It's good to do this first because it also helps you 785 01:09:33.319 --> 01:09:41.439 in you know, placement of your words and everything to make sure that you're 786 01:09:41.479 --> 01:09:44.760 being as clear and concise as possible. So it's a great site. I 787 01:09:44.840 --> 01:09:48.760 recommend it to anybody. But we're pretty much out of time. When do 788 01:09:48.880 --> 01:09:56.119 you feel the audience might be able to get their first look at the new 789 01:09:56.199 --> 01:10:02.319 documentary with no name? Well, it doesn't have a name yet, right, 790 01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:06.079 Well, we have a working title, but we're not even we're not 791 01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:11.279 even letting that out yet because we made we may decide to keep it, 792 01:10:12.479 --> 01:10:17.800 but we actually have like a growing list of some possible titles. Yeah, 793 01:10:17.840 --> 01:10:20.880 we want to make sure that it's a it's a really good title. We 794 01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:28.479 right now we're on on track of of having a rough cut of the of 795 01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:31.640 the completed program by mid to late September, so that's right around the corner. 796 01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:36.920 And and we certainly want to put a trailer together and we will. 797 01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:45.000 I can't wait to see the trailer because there are so many individual segments that 798 01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:48.239 we're working with and so many images that are in my mind every day of 799 01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:56.000 what we can put into this uh into this trailer. But I will I 800 01:10:56.039 --> 01:10:59.239 will just say this, it's a little bit of a tease. The opening 801 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:04.199 four minutes of our program is going to blow people away. I believe it. 802 01:11:04.359 --> 01:11:09.840 I am so excited about it. So thank you once and again for 803 01:11:10.319 --> 01:11:13.760 being on the show. Lead Oh, thank you, Alejadel, always a 804 01:11:13.760 --> 01:11:16.600 pleasure. Thank you so much to Lise Piego for being on the show once 805 01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:23.920 again. He's always so much fun and how amazing. Does this documentary look 806 01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:29.199 pretty dang cool? And I want to say, you know, there is 807 01:11:29.279 --> 01:11:31.199 so much that's what's fun talking to Lee today and why I wanted to talk 808 01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:35.600 to him. There's so much exciting stuff going on when it comes to UFO 809 01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:44.199 research and the whole idea of this mystery being legit getting credibility. There are 810 01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:46.520 a lot of people in some circles saying there's nothing going on, it's bland 811 01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:50.279 and stagnant, and that is so much not the case. This is historic 812 01:11:50.359 --> 01:11:56.000 stuff that we're dealing with right now. This is really game changing stuff. 813 01:11:56.039 --> 01:12:00.119 And I think that, you know, a lot of people have subscribed to 814 01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:04.079 certain worldviews and they feel that if that doesn't get acknowledged and they're frustrated. 815 01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:08.399 But you know what, this is how science, this is how the mainstream 816 01:12:08.439 --> 01:12:12.560 works. It's got to work slow. You've got to build on very strong, 817 01:12:13.159 --> 01:12:17.119 you know, foundation to really get something to have legs and to make 818 01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:20.199 a big difference. And that's what's happening right now. So I think it's 819 01:12:20.239 --> 01:12:25.399 an exciting time. I'm really excited about all of this. So it's a 820 01:12:25.439 --> 01:12:28.840 lot of fun to talk to people like Lee who have been around for so 821 01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:30.800 long and working on this for so long, to check all this stuff out. 822 01:12:31.880 --> 01:12:36.000 I want to talk about the UFO Congress also Ufocongress dot com. Go 823 01:12:36.039 --> 01:12:40.000 there. There's some really cool stuff. We have these glow in the dark 824 01:12:40.159 --> 01:12:45.479 alien hats, also the really cool UFO Congress trucker hats. We've got more 825 01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:47.800 in stock and a lot more T shirts, especially the black T shirts with 826 01:12:47.840 --> 01:12:51.439 the aliens and stuff, really really cool stuff. We've been going to some 827 01:12:51.520 --> 01:12:57.159 conferences and selling at things, and our stuff is super popular, especially as 828 01:12:57.159 --> 01:13:00.159 you can imagine a glow on the dark alien hat, I mean on they 829 01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:03.560 are really really cool. In fact, we'll get some more glow in the 830 01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:08.399 Dark stuff coming up too. We also have some videos, so we posted 831 01:13:08.399 --> 01:13:12.279 some free videos. We posted some videos of UFO Jeopardy, which is a 832 01:13:12.359 --> 01:13:15.600 lot of fun. So those are some UFO researchers and we all get together 833 01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:17.880 and do like this jeopardy game. They're really fun, they're really funny, 834 01:13:17.920 --> 01:13:21.279 so I hope you like those out. Check out the UFO Congress YouTube for 835 01:13:21.319 --> 01:13:25.199 that and otherwise, Yeah, like I said, the store's got lots of 836 01:13:25.239 --> 01:13:27.880 new stuff and we're putting out new stuff all the time. Also, you 837 01:13:27.920 --> 01:13:30.640 can go to openminds dot tv to read some about the news that Martin and 838 01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:35.399 I talked about. And you can also go to openmindstat tv to see some 839 01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:41.439 of those videos that I mentioned in my own UFO siting. In fact, 840 01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:45.720 go to my Facebook to see the Facebook live of the blue Book event and 841 01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:48.680 everything. So check out my social media for that as well. Anyway, 842 01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:53.640 thank you all so much. For joining us. Thank you to Caleb Hanks 843 01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:58.479 for the opening and closed music, thank you to Systematics for the bumper music, 844 01:13:58.520 --> 01:14:01.399 and thank you to Martin Willis podcast UFO for joining us at the beginning. 845 01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:05.359 You all have a wonderful week and we'll talk to you soon. Audio 846 01:14:05.479 --> 01:15:00.399 Smooth, Chuchos Muss