WEBVTT

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Oh wait, that's me. Sorry, I'm running. Oh my god,

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I'm completely is waiting for James.
Ask not what your country can do for

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you, ask what you can do
for your country. Mister Gerbatcheff, tear

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down this wall, read my lifts. It's the Ricochet Podcast. I'm rob

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Long joining Peter Robinson, sitting in
for James Lilas to Steve Hayward, and

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today we've got centered John Hoping and
longtime guests John Yu So stick around.

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And yet, for those of you
in the media don't report on that,

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you should be ashamed. This is
evil and the reason you don't see any

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Democrats here is they can't defend this. They're counting on the press not to

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cover it. It's roll Hello and
welcome to the Ricochet Podcast. This is

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podcast number six hundred forty two.
We're gonna have to stop. We're not

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just like recalibrate these like the Enny
and Currency or the New frank Um.

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I am rob Long, joined as
always by the Rickish my Ricichet co founder

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Peter Robinson. Paaloato, Hello,
Peter, Hello, Hello. We are

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usually joined by James Lilax. He's
not here today and sitting in for him

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is Steve Hayward. Steve, how
are you? I am good, ro

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I'm good to see you guys.
Now, so where are you, Steve?

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Did you mind might ask you where
exactly you are? Yeah, I'm

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kind of hard to pin down a
little bit like you. I'm currently my

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main residence in the central coast of
California and your passa robles nice? Nice?

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Any idea how that sounds? If
only our viewers can see how how

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tightly you've curled your pinky as you
say that, Thurston, I'm at my

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main resurance just down the hill from
the Hurst Castle. Sorry, all right,

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yeah, okay, So we have
a lot going on today. Um.

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We're joined later by John a Senator
John Hoven from um Um, from

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North Dakota. I can't believe it. A former senator, no senor,

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former governor, now senator. So
he's uh, why is he running for

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president? Peter, Well, we
should wait and ask to ask him,

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ask him. Maybe he has a
very good life as it is. He

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enjoys his state, his family and
his grandchildren and the Senate. And why

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mess it up? Anyway? I
think that's the And then later John,

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you will be here. I don't
even know I introduced John You. We

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all know John You. John will
be here to talk about I guess there

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was some some legal stuff in the
news. We can talk about that.

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But before we get to that,
before we get to the senator, before

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you get to professor you. Um, can we talk a little bit about

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drugs. A Danish study shows that
up to thirty percent of psychosis diagnoses and

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young men could have been prevented if
these individuals had not used marijuana. Yes,

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so the I guess it's the biggest
epidemiological investigation. We should talk to

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our friend Jabot to try about that. To date, and it does seem

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like, um, this news comes
in an opportune time when if you live

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in New York City, you smell
weed everywhere, and it is now legal

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almost everywhere, and it is considered
as benign, if not more benign than

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a martini. Well, Rostal that
has a piece in the New York Times.

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I continue to read the Times only
for the sake of our friend Ross

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Rostal that has a piece in the
New York Times saying that the effect legalization

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of marijuana, it's a little more
complicated than that, but in effect,

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it's been legalized across the cops have
stopped enforcing any marijuana laws almost everywhere.

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And there are shops all over New
York, as there are all over Los

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Angeles black market regulated it just they're
there. Ross says A this was a

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very big mistake. B. It's
almost impossible to say so, because and

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I'd like to hear Rob a Pine
on this one. I'd like to hear

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both of you, but Rob in
particular, because for several decades now,

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all the forces of what is cool
and with it and correct educated opinion have

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been in favor of legalization. And
it is almost impossible to raise a finger

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and say, folks, there's already
evidence that this is doing millions of people

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serious harm, because it sounds so
square. Polite opinion is just not a

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tune to hearing that, whatever the
evidence. But you are worried, Peter,

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about sounding square? Is that?
No? No, I'm worried about

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you. You're we've known each other
three decades. You've always been the cool

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one, and that's not even close. And here you are, here you

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are well, I suppose I said
a low bar, but no, I

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mean you're the cool conservative and and
here you are saying something square, collegnitive

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dissonance. Well, I don't know
if I don't know what, I don't

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know what I think of it.
To Steve, he's skipped an he's punting

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immediately, all right, he's slipping
and sliding away. I thought it was

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pretty good. Actually, all right, I'll wain with a couple of thoughts.

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One is this really isn't the brand
new finding this, this Danish study,

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I think I have been catches to
the eyebrows. It's because it's from

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those free swinging Scandinavians. Right.
There are lots of medical studies calling in

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the question of the effects of marijuana, that we've underestimated them and so forth.

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And yet you can't, Peter,
like you say, you cannot question

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this because it's a lawful lot like
some of the research on gender dysphoria and

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the whole transphenomenon, that there's active
suppression of contrary findings to what is currently

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fashionable. Um, I don't know
if you know this, Peter Robbie,

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probably don't. In the California legislature, there's currently a bill that would outlaw,

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by degrees over twenty years, all
tobacco sales in California. So if

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it passed and was signed, we
would have a world in which you couldn't

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buy tobacco products of any kind,
but marijuana would remain legal. Well why

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is that, Well, we know
why. It's it's not astounding. Now

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I think two things quickly and it'll
stop. You know, you've had these

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this proliferation of marijuana products. It's
not just weed that you roll up and

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smoke anymore. It's all these different
edibles, it's oils, It's on and

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on and on, a varying degrees
of potency. I mean, I don't

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know these things firsthand myself, but
you know, I hear that the industry

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and the people have been doing this
for decades have really figured out how to

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calibrate very high potency weed and so
forth. Yeah, and along with the

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sort of approval that the legalization has
bestowed on it, I think that the

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use of it has spread and there
isn't any you know, how do we

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what do we do about smoking?
Fifty years ago we started telling people that

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smoking was bad, and we're not
telling people that they should be careful at

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least out their marijuana use. And
so I think we're going to regret the

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rush to legalize it and promote it. The way we have. Finally,

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by the way, the marijuan industry
in California at the legal industry is losing

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money because it's overregulated and overtaxed.
And only in California could you make the

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weed industry unprofitable. Right, But
the black market, the are we even

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allowed to say black the market of
color? I don't even know what the

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illegal the unregulated market is everywhere.
Yeah, it's this weird thing where where

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the argument was, Look, maybe
it does some damage, not much,

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but a little bit. We're going
to legalize it, but then we will

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able to regulate it, will make
sure that it's safe, we'll be able

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to spot people right away who seem
to be having trouble. And that hasn't

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happened at all. What actually has
happened is that the illegal market, let's

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call it that. That's what is
blossomed. If you're crazy enough to try

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to stay within the regulations, you
have to sell your pot at a higher

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price to deal with all the regulatory
overhang, so you get undercut by the

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shop down. And it just means
that whatever control we had we've lost all

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together. I mean, I think
I own I think that's absolutely correct.

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I don't I don't think so.
I think two things happen. One is

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that people the very very strange thing
if people thought that the reason that it

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was that you would ever sell something
illegally was because it was illegal and not

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because you wanted to circumvent regulations.
So if you love regulations, you think,

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well, the man you put regulations
on this, everyone's going to conform,

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which, of course isn't what happens. You still want to like,

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you still want to circumvent it.
You still sell weed on the street here

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in New York City, or you
sell it illegally in some bedegas because the

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permitting process is complicated apparently, or
all that stuff. The second thing is

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that we live in this weird culture
where it isn't enough to say, well

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this thing isn't this stuff should be
legal, but it's not good for you,

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right, this should be legal and
you should before. The progressive mentality

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is that anything that's good for you
must be compulsory. Um. And that

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is sort of like the old PGA
of formulation was. You know, um,

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in a communist country, everything is
illegal except for a few things,

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and those things are compulsory. And
so the idea that like saying Hey,

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look, marijuana can be very dangerous
um like rum, and it should be

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regulated and and and maybe even frowned
upon like beer or rum. I mean

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I see people walking down the street
smoking weed all the time. I smell

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it from construction sites all the time. And if those people were in Manhattan,

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and those people are this is new
correct, No, No, this

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is like you know, this is
like past six months, two years,

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three years, right, Okay,
But the the pre legalization of predecriminalization so

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definitely was considered fine before the before
the city uh for city law, a

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dot of the eye, as you
might say, it was wide open.

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I mean, nobody was ever arrested
for this. But the idea that it

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isn't just so much that people are
doing it out in the open. If

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you replace that with a martini glass, if you saw two guys sitting on

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the stoop on eleven Street after before
they go back into the house to rewire

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that townhouse they're working on, and
they're sitting there drinking beer or a highball

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or a martini, you'd think,
hey, dudes, no, that's after

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work situation, right. But you
can't say that because you can't say that

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a full disclosure. I don't smoke
it. I don't I don't like it.

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I hate the smell. But you
can't say to somebody, all right,

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this is another one of your vices. But it's a vice that apparently

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is it has to solve everything.
And you put the weed cream on your

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knee and your knee doesn't hurt anymore. Like we have lost the ability to

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sort of be to be normal about
anything. Again, this goes to my

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my working definition or working theory of
of everything last week was everyone has lost

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their minds. And I think that
this is just one more instance of everybody

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losing their mind, unable to say, all right, this is your vice

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of choice, be careful with it, and maybe well kids shouldn't be doing

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it. I think it maybe even
worse than you think about everyone losing your

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mind, Rob, I think this
ought to connect to a larger phenomenon which

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also was reported this week, which
is the mortality rate among young Americans is

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up ten percent over the last couple
of years. And we know that life

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expectancy in the United States has taken
a dive for the first time in well

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ever, really, and Peter,
you will remember that back around nineteen eighty

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when Ronaldo's magnus ascended to the presidency. The first hint that the clever intelligence

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people got that the Soviet Union was
in trouble was falling lifespans in the Soviet

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Union. It had been rising and
after World War Two, and suddenly it

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took a dive in the late seventies. People like our friend Nick Eberstad said,

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there's something deeply wrong in that country. Now we can point to in

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this country, fentyl marijuana, rising
suicide rates, soaring rates of mental health

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distress. I am with Jay Bodicharia. I am convinced that the COVID lockdown,

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yes, was I mean, I
have kids, it was catastrophic.

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Correct or kids in particularly teens and
twenties, who are supposed to be getting

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out, meeting people, learning how
to socialize like adults. And am I

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wrong about that or doesn't that play
into this? No, that's absolutely right.

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But this is gonna have a long
lasting effect. And so I think

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we look, we need to have
a wider angle view than just the problem

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of marijuana and other things. I
think this is now a long term problem

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that we have. I think there's
a crisis underway, and it's a cultural

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crisis. As much as there's any
particular thing like marijuana or final If I

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could bring my father back to life
and say, well, listen, um,

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you live through the depression, you
served all four years of the Second

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World War at seem take a look. What do you think? He would

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be dazzled by the wealth, the
ease of life, the conveniences. I

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remember the year that was happened to
be the same year he died. I

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showed him, for the first time
he'd seen it, an email, and

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he just shook his head. He
said, madge, okay. And the

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idea that kids are killing themselves or
resorting to fenton All and booze and marijuana,

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this just would not compute. This
is not the country for which he

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went to war. Something serious has
gone wrong, and it's in our heads.

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We're not poor, it's in our
heads, by the way, Peter,

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on a lighter note for this Graham
subject, the first time I showed

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my mother an email, her question
back to me was how does it get

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out of the envelope and into your
computer as well? Not a dumb question

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really when you're a but Peter,
I think you're I think you're I think

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it's a constellation of things. I
think, like a lot of what happened

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in COVID, it amplify and exacerbated
trends that we already had. I think

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actually the target that the group that
was targeted the most for harm were sort

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of preteens and early teens, so
like middle school, young high school,

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early high school, because they really
were coming out of their shell and coming

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out of the home and coming out
of the nest at that point. So

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and that devastation is huge. I
think there's other parts of it too,

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which are that we and it's in
Richard Reeves a great book, Richard Reeves,

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guy at the Brick Constitution with a
book called of Boys and Men,

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Why the modern male is Struggling,
Why it matters, and what's d about

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it? And I think he's pointing
at some very very serious problems we have

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in the country with how we raise
men and how we raise boys. And

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you all know when you when you
fail at that, only bad things happen.

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Young men are the prime engine for
social chaos and crime and all sorts

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of terrible things when they are not
raised well or parented well. And I

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think that's what's happening not only by
their parents, but probably by but by

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the culture in general, which is
these are all big fat topics, and

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we can keep talking about them where
we can switch to other big fat topics

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because we have We are lucky to
have John Hoven. He was the thirty

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firs I said, thirty first governor
of North Dakota from two thousand and two

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thousand and ten. He is now
the senior US Senator from North Dakota.

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He's been on the podcast many times. He's a friend of our of the

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podcast. So I um, I
got a big question for him. So

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I gave a little thumbnail sketch of
your successful term as the governor of North

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Dakota, and now that you're the
current senior US senator there, why on

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earth are you not running for president? And don't come up with I don't

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want any excuses here. I want
the I want I want you to say,

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you know what good point, Rob, I'm in So, Rob,

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it is great to be with you
and Stephen. I don't know if Peter's

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joining or not. What I see
both you guys are from Berkeley, and

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I kind of marveled at that,
because you know, Peter is a Reagan

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Republican and a staunch staunch conservative,
and here I find out he's hanging out

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with two guys from Berkeley. Yes, I know this is directly germane to

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your question, so I thought I'd
launched right into it. You know,

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So, Peter, what gives what? I live in California? Senator?

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I do the best I can and
that's how low I've sunk. These guys

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are the best I can do.
Senator, you were down at the border

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just what was it? Just last
week? And I saw you on My

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Twitter feed was filled with you and
it sounded as though you were shocked at

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what you saw. So I'd like
to ask two questions, what did you

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see? And why does the senator
Why does the senator from North Dakota care?

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Do they do? They do?
The illegals make it as far as

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north as your state Western. It
effects every state in the Union. You

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know that, Peter, the fat
and all the human trafficking. You know

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that this is a national problem.
In border scurry is a national security I

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remember, we are a border state
and we're seeing, um, you know,

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our resources on the northern border being
uh you know, taken down to

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the southern border, and so you
know, we're starting to see problems on

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the northern border North Dakota. We
have responsibility for actually nine hundred miles of

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water all the way from essentially the
Great Lakes out through part of Montana because

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we're we have the Grand Forks sector
and so you know, we're familiar with

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border issues. Obviously, it is
very different on the northern border than it

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is in the southern ward. But
yeah, this is affecting every single state

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in the country. You're you're seeing
it in a lot of orders. Obviously,

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the human trafficking, the drugs or
over one hundred thousand deaths in fentanyl

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last year. The numbers keep growing. So it's it's affecting all of us

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and our kids. Uh. And
you know Board scres national Security. So

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so back to you know, you
said you said, I wasn't shocked because

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I've been down there many times now, I'm I'm doing everything. I keep

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going back because i want to solve
the problem. And the solution is for

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the Biden administration to enforce the law. It's that simple. And they've got

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to quit telling the American people and
somehow if the Congress did something or whatever,

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then they can secure the board.
No, they need to enforce the

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remain in Mexico policy and the third
Safe Country policy, and that's the law.

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If they would enforce it, that
would stop the illegal flow. Right

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now. We can get it into
more details, but it is that simple

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that it is that direct. They're
obfu skating, hunger of mynarchist's obfu skating.

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That's that's all that is. They
have the tools, and in fact,

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we have a responsibility to enforce the
law and stop this border crisis.

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No hey, senator, So why
is it so ian? Why you lay

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it out? It seems like it
should be easily easily done. Why is

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it so difficult? I mean,
people vote in twenty sixteen for Candida,

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say he's going to build a wall, and he didn't build it, and

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he all sorts of excuses why he
didn't build it. We can come up

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with all the reasons why, but
he didn't build it. He maybe he

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replaced some parts that Obama built,
but he didn't actually build any new role.

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It feels to me like securing the
border isn't that complicated. I mean,

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or at least the idea being if
once you make it harder across the

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border, you kind of send the
message all the way down to the tip

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of Tierra del Fuego, that this
is not a done deal. Don't set

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off on foot for something it's going
to be really good, it don't come.

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Why is this so difficult? I
mean, I have a hard time

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believing the the sort of very prevalent
conservative theory that this is the goal of

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the liberals and Democrats to replace conservatives
with loyal Democratic voters. But what are

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the other reasons why it can't just
be done? So rot if you look

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at what happened with the last administration, essentially we did get control of the

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water, and we do need a
border of all of border barrier whatever you

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want to call it. And it's
not the same in all places along the

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border. It's different depending on the
tomography and the situation. Rural areas obviously

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California and different than Texts, is
different than Arizona and so forth. So

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one, you do need a border
barrier, and you also need the people

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in the technology so that you actually
have control of the border. And that's

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not only so you can manage the
flow what comes through. And then you

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need technology at the ports of entry
so you can stand these you know,

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millions of vehicles that come across that
have contraband drugs other things, and so

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you need That's why you need the
technology. And then the other thing that

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does is once you get control of
the ports of entry, then your border

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patrol can actually track all the areas
into TWEET and make sure that the coyote

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days and the cartels are not bringing
people across. The human trafficking and the

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drugs one thing, but then also
you're seeing terrorists come across the work and

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you know the cartels want to establish
their criminal organizations in our country as well,

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And so it all goes together and
back to Peters where Peter Stern,

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I've been at this for some time. In other words, at a number

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of years ago, the governor,
Senator Shaheen and I we were governors together

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back in the day, and Chi
and I were a chair and ranking member

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on the appropriation subcommunity that had DHS. We went down and we went all

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along the Texas border to check it
out. So we worked on the funding

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back leading into Trump wanting to put
up the border barrier, which he did,

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rebuilt a lot of that. He
did as much as he could in

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his four years. Now, a
lot of those areas the Biden people are

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just leaving the materials sitting there on
the ground, materials that we've paid for,

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rather than finishing the wall. But
I've been to McCallan, del Rio,

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evil Pass, I've been to Pass
so that just in the last year

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plus, I've been on the other
side to Mexico, Ecuador, to Guatemala,

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to Colombia. And the thing is, what's going on right now is

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that because the Biden illustration will not
enforce the law very simply, the remain

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in Mexico third sif that's that would
stop it right now for CBP and word

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Patrol, then those professionals they could
then take control of order right now,

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even without additional barrier. But he
won't do it. And furthermore, now

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the title forty two is expired.
My orcas is saying there enforcing Title eight.

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They are not under Title eight.
You actually have to have an asylum

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plan, you know, for persecution, not not because you just want to

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immigrate. You actually have to be
pursued. You have to have an asylum

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claim to stay in the country.
And so they're and so what my orchass

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say, he's under tie Lake,
they're enforcing that. They're not. Because

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the individual comes across he says,
you know, I'm here, I want

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to have asylum or whatever. They
say, no, no, no,

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you have to go back for me. In mestally, he says, I

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want to appeal it. And then
once he appeals it, they give him

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a phone number that counts as a
preliminary hearing. He calls and he says,

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I have credible fear Unless the judge
says no, you got to go

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back with The judge has nothing to
go on. So they stay, They're

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issued an alien identification number, they
get benefits, they get a work permit.

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They're here and they don't actually have
a court hearing day rob for about

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three to five years. That's not
enforcing the law. And even then even

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then they commit they can skip it. Yeah, and then well yeah,

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then they don't go to that hearing. You know, they're here for five

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years. That's if they're here.
Senator at Steve Hayward out in California.

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I'm so old I can remember when
many leading Democrats took a hawkers position on

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this issue. You can think of
Barbara Jordan's famous speech in the nineteen seventies,

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the Democratic Convention, Bill Clinton in
the nineteen nineties, even Barack Obama

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around twenty ten. I had some
hawkish rhetoric at least about the issue,

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and Jean Shaheen was working with the
Senator. As John just said, right

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well, Prederie Hampshire, it's somewhere
in the last decade, to make a

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long story short, the Democrats seem
to have sold out to the open borders

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ideology for whatever reasons. I think
there's a lot of bad ones. Really,

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they're all bad ones. And yet
in the last ten days or so,

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since the demise of Title forty two
became immant, you've seen several starting

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to change their mind a bit.
Senator Brown in Ohio. Maybe it's a

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00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.359
coincidence that senators who are up for
reelection next year. But still the question

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is, do you think that there's
a change among Democrats who were worried about

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this, at least enough of them. Is there possibly a majority in Congress

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for a tougher stance on immigration.
I think so, I hope so,

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and there needs to be. But
that's why I say every America needs to

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truly understand what's going on and homelands, curity security. A hundred of my

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orchist sits and looks at you and
says it's a you know, the borders

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close that he's enforcing kind of late. He is not, and people need

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to understand it because when enough Americans
a process country simply understand that the Biden

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administration could stop this right now if
they just enforced the law, which is

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their job, and that those folks
all call their senators and their house members

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on the other side of the island, say enough of this and think about

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look at what's going on in New
York right now, where now they're starting

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to house migrants in public schools and
parents are coming out. Think about Mayor

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Adams complaining about Governor Adam, Governor
Abbott from Texas sending some bustles of illegal

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migrants are there, Well, that's
ten percent of what he's getting. He

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should be calling the White House.
It's the White House that's sending up the

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tens of thousands to him. And
so as you see these problems continue to

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grow, even in the so called
sanctuary cities, I hope enough Americans will

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call their elected representatives, can say
enough and get the Biden administration to stop

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this. Senator, if I'd like
to ask you a question on a different

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subject for a moment before you entered
the public service. You were a very

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successful banker, so obviously I want
to get your summary perspective on what's been

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happening with Silicon Valley Bank and the
slow rolling crisis of Happy right now first

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Republic of all the rest of that. What are you what's what should we

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think about this? What are our
takeaways? What should we be watching for?

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Well, clearly, in that case, the bank was mismanaged and the

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regulators weren't on top of it,
and they should have been. And when

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that happens, those banks shouldn't fail. I mean they should go out of

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business, just like other businesses go
out of business. That does not undermine

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the soundness of the overall system.
And that's what we need to separate this

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conflating a bad failure where it was
poorly run, where they got into all

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the high tech stuff, where the
regulators didn't stay on top of it.

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That is, yes, an individual
case, and that bank should go out

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of business, and you know that, but that doesn't threaten the seat the

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soundness of the other bank. And
we can't get into this deal where you

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know, you bail out every bank
that that is not what you well,

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that was going to be my next
question is do you do you agree with

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the decision to lift the deposit insurance
cabin. Well, what they started to

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do, Stephen, was they were
going to arrange a sale or facility the

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00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.119
sale of that bank of the bank, which obviously was going to happen.

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They were bidders, and that's let
the market. You know, sure they

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00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:38.359
can help with it, but the
market would have taken care of that by

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uh, you know, and you've
seen that now subsequently with these other banks

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where you know, the other bank
will step in and buy them because they

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want those depositors, they want that
customer banks. But it shouldn't be federal

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00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.200
bailble No, I mean, is
in a way center could you actually say

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that bank? When banks go bust, it's a sign that the system is

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healthy. That it's only unhealthy when
you create this attitude among bankers that regulators

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00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:14.480
will step in and bail you out. Yeah. Why should every bank be

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able to stand business? No way, if they if they're partly run and

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00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:19.079
so on them, so forth,
they should go to business and you know

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people, and they need to be
able to account of all. But the

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system is sound, and other banks
will step up in a car that deposit

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base, and so I mean the
system work. It wasn't designed. You

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00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:34.680
go ahead and bail out every bank
that was what's never designed them? Okay,

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00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:37.440
So I'm you want to you want
to jump in, Peter, go

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00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.799
right ahead. I do, but
but I want I'd like to, but

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I want to change topics me too. I want to talk about politics a

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00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.640
little bit. Okay too. Okay, I'm gonna go first. You can

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00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.000
ask center you a reader, can
I ask a question you? Is that

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the briberry in your home? That
your system? Is? That? Is

399
00:28:56.039 --> 00:29:00.160
that your is that your so library
to ahead, Senator. I'm a little

400
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:04.440
surprised. I guess this shows that
you weren't the most studious student at Dartmouth

401
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:10.960
College. This is Dartmouth. This
is one of the libraries inside Baker at

402
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:17.119
Dartmouth. Nice try though, all
right, Senator? That was kind of

403
00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:22.039
good, wasn't it. It's yet
thrown me only I can't solve all this

404
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:26.880
Senator stuff, as as he just
revealed, we've been friends since with college.

405
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:32.160
So I'm going to call him John
John Donald Trump beat Joe Biden in

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00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:37.440
North Dakota by two to one sixty
over sixty sixty six to thirty two.

407
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:42.119
Right now, that wasn't as big
a margin as yours. When you get

408
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:47.119
yourself reelected, your margins or something
like four or five to one. It's

409
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:52.960
just amazing. Donald Trump's running again. Ron de Santis, what what are

410
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:57.480
you? Are you? What's your
position? Trump was? Trump was complicated

411
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:00.079
for you? And I discussed this
once. You said, your people up

412
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.319
in North Dakota have trouble with Trump
as a man, but they sure like

413
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.839
his policies. What positions that put
you in. His policies have been very

414
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:12.720
good, as you know. But
you know, I take the approach that

415
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:17.599
that I've taken pretty much every time. I think we have to be careful

416
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:22.880
Peter about not this is when the
grassroots, when the Republicans, the you

417
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:26.759
know, the people that work there
rear end off for all US candidates year

418
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.720
in year. This is when they
get to vet everybody, when they you

419
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.200
know, they get the way in
and have an opinion. And I think

420
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:38.759
we make a mistake if we don't
spend some time listening to that and you

421
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.799
know, finding out who's running,
finding out what people think. And I

422
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.400
think we're pretty early on in that
process. As a matter of fact,

423
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:52.480
you're going to see Tim Scott,
who's marvelous. I'm sure you know him.

424
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:56.039
He just a phenomenal person, the
kind of guy that can bring people

425
00:30:56.039 --> 00:31:00.720
together. He's tremendous. De Santist
is going to get in. Um.

426
00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:03.880
You know, I was disappointed to
see that Mike Pompeo at least at this

427
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:08.000
point, says he's going to pass. He's tremendous. There are very talented

428
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:12.519
people that are going to be in
this race. And lets let's let's give

429
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:18.880
the process a little time to unfold, and let's be careful not to be

430
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.559
trying to tell people how they should
go it too darn quick. Let's let's

431
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:26.240
this is when the grassroots get to
speak. Let's let's listen to him a

432
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.160
little bit and just kind of see
how this goes. Okay, so one

433
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:32.839
case you and okay, go ahead. No no, I was just gonna

434
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:37.559
say, so, you're really and
truly telling us that it's open ended right

435
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.359
now. Donald Trump does not have
this wrapped up. Plenty of time to

436
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:45.079
think things through, fall in love
with this candidate, fall in love with

437
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.720
another candidate. We do not know
who's going to win the Republican nomination.

438
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:53.559
Yet you really believe that Peter all
the time when I listen to you guys

439
00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:59.599
in the media world, and you
know, with your prognostications and your polls,

440
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:01.640
all the things every day, and
I know what you got it sliced

441
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:06.559
and nice. You know, yeah, I kind of the whole of the

442
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:08.519
election. But you know, I've
always kind of been one to say,

443
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:12.759
well, we'll see, and I
think, you know, I know,

444
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:16.839
oh kidding is signed. It's always
interesting to see the polls, the prognostications,

445
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.559
all this kind of stuff. Hey, but hey, this debase just

446
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:24.119
getting started, and I think it's
really important. I hain't got a lot

447
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:29.880
of talented people that are gonna be
involved. Well, Senator, you adroitly

448
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:35.279
skipped over my question to start,
and I'll let you off. I want

449
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.920
to ask you again because I don't
want you to say no too loudly,

450
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:39.000
because I kind of feel like,
well, maybe I'll kind of leave some

451
00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:42.240
room for you to change your mind. But can we just talk about the

452
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.160
Senate in twenty and twenty twenty four? I mean, um, listen to

453
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:50.039
you talking about immigration and banking and
uh, you know, I'm sure down

454
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:54.880
the list, Um, well,
like do it right, But it's hard

455
00:32:54.920 --> 00:33:00.599
for Republican Senator in twenty twenty three, to just make it happen. How

456
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:06.200
likely do you think the Republican Party
is to get control of the Senate in

457
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:09.240
twenty twenty four, to really really
put into place. A lot of these

458
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:15.200
pieces of this agenda are that are
we desperately need we need to I mean,

459
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:17.359
at the end of the day,
you got to win elections. That's

460
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.000
one of the things that drives me
absolutely crazy is I listened to people say,

461
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:27.160
well, you know, they got
this great plan of procedure and all

462
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:30.200
these kinds of things, and somehow
we're going to outsmart the other guys,

463
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:31.599
and on and on and on,
and we're going to get our way even

464
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:37.079
though we're in the minority. It
doesn't work that way. We have to

465
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:42.960
have more votes to get our policies
in place. And this last mid term

466
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.440
cycle, you saw that, you
know, oh we were you know,

467
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:46.400
back to what I said a minute
ago, Oh we were going to get

468
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:50.000
a majority in the Senate for sure, and on and on and on,

469
00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:53.440
and we did it, and the
country's suffering because of that. I don't

470
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:58.240
care how smart or how nifty are
how good you are, Robert's school's waters

471
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:01.759
or whatever. If they have more
votes then we do. They carry their

472
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:07.079
policies. You are seeing what the
democratic policies are doing to this country,

473
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:10.559
and it is not good. So
we've got to win the Senate, and

474
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:15.400
we've got to win the presidency and
then get back to the kind of fundamentals

475
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:20.000
that made this country strong. So
Number one, we've got to win it.

476
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:24.480
Number two, I'm hopeful that we
can, but the very again,

477
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:28.880
it's going to come back to winning
the hearts and minds and that this immigration

478
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:34.880
discussion is a great example. The
energy issue is a great example, the

479
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:40.199
debt ceiling and the outrageous spending,
the debt pods is a great example.

480
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:45.119
On every single one of this,
we have the right solutions, and at

481
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:49.039
the end of the day, we've
got to convince not just our base,

482
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:52.519
but enough of those people in the
middle that we need to win for the

483
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:57.199
good of this country. And it's
you know, they always say the next

484
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.679
election is the most important, but
it sure feels that way. Yeah,

485
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:02.480
Church feels the way. Catch one. I know, you gotta one last

486
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:08.039
question because you were born in Bismarck, North Dakota. True, you're from

487
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:10.840
North Dakota. You've been the governor
of the state, and now you're the

488
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:15.400
Senator from the state, and we
think, you know, I say,

489
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:20.000
we think people who don't live in
that part of the country tend to think

490
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:23.760
of that part of the country is
kind of always the same, but it

491
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:30.400
really is it. How what are
the big ways that North Dakota has changed

492
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.039
the people that you represent, the
people that you were the governor of,

493
00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:35.960
you know, for the past twenty
years. It feels like everywhere else in

494
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:39.599
America has I've gone through some tumultuous, sometimes wrenching, sometimes very positive change.

495
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:43.199
What about North Dakota? Good question? You know I like that question,

496
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.800
Rob, that that I really do
like that. See, Peter,

497
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.639
I can do this, Yeah,
exactly, Peter, I can argue that's

498
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:53.800
so hard. Yeah. First off, I'm so honored to represent the people

499
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:58.280
in North Dakota. And North Dakota
has always been an egg powerhouse. We

500
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:00.639
leave the nation in the production of
I don't know, fourteen or fifteen different

501
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:05.199
crops were number one in Pontee.
You know, we get livestock. I

502
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:08.719
mean, we're a very strong egg
state. We've boys been an egg powerhouse,

503
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:13.840
but we've added that we're not an
energy powerhouse. You know, we're

504
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:17.199
either second to Texas or sometimes in
Mexico's in there because of the public lands

505
00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:22.719
in terms of oil and gas production. But we've also developed a lot more

506
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:25.639
technology. We've gone from an older
state to one of the youngest states because

507
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:29.800
we're attracting people, because we have
a lot of jobs. We have a

508
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:35.320
very high per capid income. So
what where we've changed is we've gone from

509
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.239
kind of just the farming state to
really doing a lot of these other things

510
00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:43.719
and innovating in some really exciting ways. So we're leading the country and carbon

511
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:49.039
capture for a cou fired electric industry. So I need just I think,

512
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.880
you know, in many ways,
we've become a much more dynamic state.

513
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:57.239
We're doing incredible things at unmanned aviation, we have this incredible tech park,

514
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:02.119
Grand Sky and Grand Forks. I
think in that respect, like you say,

515
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:07.280
every place changes, um, but
I think we've retained that kind of

516
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:13.880
fundamental, down to earth common sense
approach that I think is, you know,

517
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:16.920
just a wonderful attribute for our statement, something I think is really important

518
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:22.599
for our country consense. So so
America should be a little bit more like

519
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:27.840
North Dakoda. Well, of course, I feel, are you bet Centator

520
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:30.079
thank you for joining us. Really
pay to hope you come back again,

521
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:35.360
Um, especially as the twenty twenty
four general elect gets a little more complicated,

522
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:38.159
a little more interesting. I'd love
to hear some more of your perspective.

523
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:44.559
Thanks, guys, I've really enjoyed
being with Take care of it.

524
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:53.880
Tell missus Hallivan. We send our
best um from from I don't know how

525
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:59.960
to put it, from the from
the heights of the of of Statesman Life

526
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:07.159
Capital, from the Governor's office,
to the to the to to to the

527
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:14.119
the brainchild of our founders in central
to Philadelphia, Chief check to mcgribb.

528
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:20.159
We are now welcome our old friend, Professor John You, professor at UH

529
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:22.880
Bolt Law School where they still say
Bolt right, don't say don't we got

530
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:28.800
renamed because we got only renamed.
Formerly a Berkeley Law School fellow at Hoover

531
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:37.559
and American Enterprise Institute podcaster UH co
star with equal billing for some reason on

532
00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:44.599
Law Talk UM and of course UM, he occasionally co hosts with our own

533
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:51.599
Steve Hayward. UM. Welcome John
You. You know Steve and I have

534
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:55.039
this other podcast where we replaced a
whole bunch of you with one woman named

535
00:38:55.079 --> 00:39:01.400
Lucretia, whose identity we protects identity
we attacked by using ancient Roman pseudonyms.

536
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:07.800
She's more Yeah, if she had
larryin Chinas, she'd still be better than

537
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:15.400
you guys. Come on comparison after
this is all over. Hey, all

538
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:23.280
right, funny times over, John
Um put yourself back briefly in the Department

539
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:35.960
of Justice, just pretend. Uh. The search warrant on Robinson's house commission

540
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:44.920
the Age Old dream. Uh.
The Durham Report comes out and everybody reads

541
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:47.199
it. Some people read it for
the first time. Some people read it

542
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:52.079
the Friday afternoon, and they release
it on a Monday. How bad?

543
00:39:53.199 --> 00:40:00.480
How bad is it? Both from
your perspective outside and also if you were

544
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:06.679
in there, what would you be
saying inside the DOJ that Monday lunchtime after

545
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:12.559
everybody's read this report. I'm fraid
the way a lot of people there think

546
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:16.000
is well, at least they're not
going to fire me, So that's the

547
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:20.719
first thing they read the report to
see where they're mentioned and to make sure

548
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:25.239
they take of them. But but
seriously, they would worry that something has

549
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:30.800
gone seriously wrong with the FBI and
the Justice Department. All right, this

550
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:36.960
is as harsh as you can get
without actually throwing people in jail. Right,

551
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:43.239
the FBI and the just Department are
supposed to neutrallly investigate crimes and to

552
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:46.559
prosecute them. And what does a
dirm report show? It was a It's

553
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:52.840
it's really really not controverted these days, right, it's one the incumbent party

554
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:59.800
controlling the White House. Their presidential
kendidate, Hillary Clinton, concocted a completely

555
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:06.320
made up scheme claiming that her opponent, right, the outer party candidate,

556
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:10.239
was a Russian spy. Right,
So that's just implausible on his face,

557
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:19.320
no evidence, ridiculous and either tricked, duped, or had willing conspirators in

558
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:25.079
the FBI who took that information and
launched a two to three year probe of

559
00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:32.360
a candidate and then the winning candidate
a president. You sit there and say,

560
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:39.360
what has happened to the idea of
neutral, nonpartisan law enforcement. This

561
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:43.280
is the thing. This Durham is
not some outside investigator. He's one of

562
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:45.480
their own, right, He's one
of the most neutral, most nonpartisan.

563
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:50.519
Do you prosecutors in the history of
the Department? Did you know him?

564
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.880
We've met him maybe once. I've
met him maybe once. So there's no

565
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:59.679
beef here we gotta get you know, so, um it comes it comes

566
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:00.719
out to a lot of things.
But one of the things that comes down

567
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:09.599
to is the subversion of the FISA
process, right, which um is something

568
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:15.880
that was predicted in two thousand and
whatever when they were arguing the Patriot Act.

569
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:20.920
I mean people, you know,
especially Libertaris parents were saying, yeah,

570
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:23.039
we're saying this, this is gonna
be trouble. We passed this,

571
00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:27.480
it's gonna be trouble, and it
turns out it's trouble. So how do

572
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:30.599
you fix it? This is the
bigger picture, which I think goes beyond

573
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:36.440
the Durham report that he you know, Durham barely addressed, which is look,

574
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:39.639
if I read this report and I
put the words al Qaeda instead of

575
00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:45.039
Republican Party in, and I put
Osama bin Lauden instead of Donald Trump in.

576
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:49.360
These were the tools that we created. But I know sometimes people on

577
00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:53.559
MSNBC make that mistake over and over
again. But they different, Yeah,

578
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:58.400
well they like the other, they
like the they prefer it. You know,

579
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:04.679
if those hours and authorities we're all
supposed to be turned outward to investigate

580
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:08.519
terrorists, to investigate foreign spies,
the mistake they made. And this is

581
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:13.840
again Durham does not does not really
scratch the surface of how to think about

582
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:16.159
this, how to cure it is
it was turned inwards. If you think

583
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:21.320
about is exactly what happened in Watergate. This is exactly what Richard Nixon did.

584
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:25.920
He used the CI. Sorry,
well, you and you, you

585
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:30.159
and I Steve always think Nixon doesn't
get all the credit he should get in

586
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:34.719
Watergate wasn't so bad, but it
is. It is exactly the same thing

587
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:38.760
in the sense that these powerful,
you know, tools like Feisser, like

588
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:44.480
surveillance, So those were all supposed
to be used to protect the national security

589
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:50.880
from threats of vall abroad, never
supposed to be used to go after domestics

590
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:53.840
domesticory, and specifically not to be
used to interfere in political campaigns. That's

591
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:57.639
the lesson of Watergate. Well,
but look, I mean it's a thought

592
00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:00.840
experiment here. I mean, it's
one thing to bug your opposition campaign and

593
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:05.360
it's one thing to try and prevent
the FBI from investigating it, Which are

594
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:09.440
the two things around Nixon or as
people did. What if Nixon had used

595
00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:15.159
phony you made up intelligence to start
a criminal investigation by the FBI, and

596
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:17.960
that everybody, all the people the
highest reaches knew about it. You know,

597
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:21.599
Nixon didn't know about the Watergate burgery. We're pretty sure, we think

598
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:25.559
anyway, Oh my goodness, they'd
still be prosecuting Nixon even though he's been

599
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:30.280
dead thirty years. I can't believe
that this shouldn't at least raise the prospect

600
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:36.000
of conspiracy charges against Hillary Clinton and
the people around her, against people in

601
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:38.920
the FBI. It seems to me
that this ought to have serious criminal consequences,

602
00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:43.519
but it's been played out so slowly
that it's sort of like the old

603
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:45.199
Clinton playbook. If you just slow
things done long enough, it'll just sort

604
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:50.199
of evaporate and lose its force.
I feel bad for Durham, and he

605
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:52.639
says in this report, he says, look, there's a lot of things

606
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:57.239
here that went wrong. There was
a lot of bad action. Not all

607
00:44:57.280 --> 00:45:00.840
bad action is criminal. I can't
and he this is basically, look,

608
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:05.719
I tried to prosecute two low level
people and they were acquitted. The Justice

609
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.320
of Warner rarely loses on acquittal.
I mean, the JUMAR usually wins ninety

610
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:13.719
nine of its cases. So Durham
essentially said, look, I'm issuing this

611
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:17.199
report so the American people and Congress
can see all the bad things that were

612
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:22.480
done, and you have to use
other means to hold them accountable other than

613
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:24.360
trying to throw them in jail,
because that's not going to work. So

614
00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:28.079
I agree with you, Steve,
that some of the things that happened here

615
00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:30.480
are worse in the sense of who
was involved. It's almost worse in the

616
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:36.119
sense that the bureaucracy. You know, Watergate was a few really bad apples.

617
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:39.440
I'm watching this great HBO series starring
Woody House Harrison, you know,

618
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:44.760
Rob's old buddy. Somehow they turned
Rob's old buddy in a White House plumber.

619
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:46.639
You know, the Rob's got a
future here. I think he could.

620
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:52.239
He'd be a great uh you know
DNC chair getting hacked in the next

621
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:55.920
series on Hillary Clinton. But look, these are a few bad apples here.

622
00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:00.320
It's almost the bureaucracy, right,
the leadership of the FBO, of

623
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:04.519
one mind believed it. So it's
almost a greater threat, harder to cure

624
00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:07.719
in a way, Steven, throwing
a few people in jail, John that

625
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:10.199
Peter wants to get in. But
before we go, like the Nixon and

626
00:46:10.280 --> 00:46:14.679
now Dixon comparison. I think it's
really interesting because you know, I know

627
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:15.679
that you know, I don't want
to insult the two of you, you

628
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:19.960
know, NIXONO files, but like
Nixon was kind of a weirdo and paranoid

629
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:22.960
and had lots of weird He was
psychologically damaged, and I believe that he

630
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:25.360
had enemies around the corner. And
in case of Nixon, he kind of

631
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:30.920
did. But like part of the
weirdness of Watergate was that he invested that

632
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:37.239
someone felt they needed to break into
the opposition office in Watergate Hotel, a

633
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:39.880
person that pretty much was already at
like zero in the polls. Right.

634
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:45.599
Nixon then went on to win I
mean every single state, right, with

635
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:51.480
one of the most smashing popular vote
and electoral vote victories in American political history.

636
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:58.599
And at the time that the Clinton
administrate, that Hillary Clinton campaign was

637
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:06.559
devising this nonsense and trying to get
FISA authorization, she was the poles were

638
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:12.000
saying she was gonna win like,
you know, ten twenty thirty points all

639
00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:15.360
the way. Like even election night, there were only a few people who

640
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:20.239
were sort of inside I mean,
I mean people in the Clinton administration,

641
00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:22.920
I mean the Clinton campaign who were
worried. One of them was Bill Clinton,

642
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:27.880
because he is a political mastermind.
He knows a campaign in trouble when

643
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:30.920
he sees one. But most people
thought, ah, you know what's Donald

644
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:34.880
Trump's gonna go down? Donald Trump
thought Donald Trump is gonna go down.

645
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:40.719
So what is about? What is
the psychosis here? The Richard Nixon Hillary

646
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:45.559
Clinton psychosis which people have already,
they've already been comparing those two since she

647
00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:53.760
burst on the scene in nineteen ninety
one. What what about people who seem

648
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:59.519
like they have all the cards?
Make drives them to become this paranoid and

649
00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:04.000
weird, like, why even bother
to do this? Is my question?

650
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:09.159
Yea, rob this is a hard
question. This is something prosecutors can't figure

651
00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:14.599
out. Right. This is going
to be probably some psychiatric report on one

652
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.760
of Hillary Clinton's servers, which meets
is probably in the hands of China and

653
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:22.559
Russia right now, who knows,
But this is this is part of it.

654
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:25.559
This It was going to be a
close election. Hillary tried, just

655
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:30.840
like President Nixon tried every dirty trick
in the book. The sad thing about

656
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:37.159
the Durham report is how far this
dirty trick went. And Durham's report is

657
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:40.079
telling us in a way, it's
the answer that you're looking for. I

658
00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:43.639
think, Rob, is the answer
is not going to come from throwing people

659
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:47.159
in jail. It's going to come
from Congress right radically restructuring the FBI and

660
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:51.840
the Just Department and making a difference
in the twenty twenty four elections. Aren't

661
00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:55.280
you struck by how all the people
who are in the Obama administration are now

662
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:59.920
you know, back for a rerun
with the Biden administration. How a lot

663
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.039
of these names that you see in
the Durham report, we're part of the

664
00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:06.800
fifty one intelligence officials who you know, said the Hunter, Biden, Bob

665
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:09.079
Top. Don't look here. There's
still a chance to hold them accountable,

666
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:13.199
Rob, But you do have to
do it through elections and politics, you

667
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:15.280
know. Durham basically said, you
can't you you know, the Justice Department

668
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.880
can't fix this problem for you.
If you got these people at the top

669
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.679
of their parties, who are you
know, running these crazy eyed campaigns,

670
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:27.800
do these terrible things, and then
have lots of willing underlings. We can't

671
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:31.400
solve that problem by throwing them all
in jail. John, I'm going to

672
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:34.880
ask you a question. I don't
know whether you're going to answer it,

673
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:38.119
though, because I am told by
our producer that we had small words where

674
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:44.920
we had to swear that you could
leave. He can't something like three minutes.

675
00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:47.480
Apparently you have to get to the
McDonald's, when before before they stopped

676
00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:53.440
serving correctly. Oh you you you
have just invited a blizzard of photos from

677
00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:58.920
me to you to show proof that's
wrong. Where I'm going, that's right

678
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:00.800
where I'm going. I'm going ask
two questions. I'm going to ask two

679
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:04.920
questions really fast, and then you
do as much as you have time to

680
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.920
do with them. Question number one. When you were at the Department of

681
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:15.000
Justice during the administration of George W. Bush, if you had been told

682
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:19.280
that a couple of decades later this
would happen, you would have said,

683
00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:23.679
oh, sure there's corruption around here, or you would have said impossible,

684
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:30.079
not in the FBI, not a
d J. That's question one. Question

685
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:36.119
two. Vivic Ramaswami, who's running
for president, has said, Okay,

686
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.519
that's it. J Edgar Hoover.
We know what the nonsense j Edgar Hoover

687
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:45.000
got up to because your former judge
Larry Silberman was responsible for reading through the

688
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:50.360
Hoover correspondence, and he said it
was the worst job. Can I say

689
00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:53.280
something about that? Peter? I
used to beg him, nag him every

690
00:50:53.320 --> 00:50:58.360
time I talked to something, to
something about what was it? Just one

691
00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:00.599
little thing he was? He never
tell me he was. He would never

692
00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:04.719
when he would start that, but
he would curse, set me a lot.

693
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:07.000
He would. That would usually string
some curses. So whenever he was

694
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:09.920
giving me a hard time about something
that I didn't want to tell him,

695
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:13.480
I would always say to him,
can you tell me something from the Hoover

696
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:15.760
files? And they john blah blah
blah. You know, I can't tell

697
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:20.239
you anything about that. So usually
would That's how I would win arguments with

698
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:23.639
him. All right, Jed Hoover
was corrupt, Mark felt deep throat.

699
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:30.800
We now know was a was a
was a self serving FBI bureaucrat who brought

700
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:35.280
down Richard Nixon. And now we
have this James Comey, whose self regard

701
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:43.320
is breathtaking and who was engaged in
corrupt activity up to his nostrils. Vic

702
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:47.920
Ramaswami says, that's it. Shut
this thing down and end the FBI,

703
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:53.159
and let's come up with the new
domestic intelligence and law enforcement Bureau from scratch,

704
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:55.960
and John You says yes or no, those are two questions I will

705
00:51:55.960 --> 00:52:00.800
now fall side. Well no,
Well, I don't think fund the polices

706
00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:05.400
of winning message for Republicans, so
I don't think that's a good idea.

707
00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:08.800
But I take your point right now. Back when I was a one and

708
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:13.559
o two I was I helped draft
the Patriot Act. I lobbied on Congress

709
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:15.239
for it. Not lobby it's the
wrong word. But you know, I

710
00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:20.320
presently worked with Congress to get it
past. And I never thought this would

711
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:24.719
happen. I thought the lessons from
Watergate were well learned and hardwired into the

712
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:30.880
Justice Department and the FBI not to
use these awesome powers for anything but terrorism

713
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:36.039
and encounter espionage. So it seems
to me the answer Peter's tricking because he

714
00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:37.599
knows I'm an optimist, and so
I don't think this is the end of

715
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:39.880
the world. I don't think we
should get rid of the FBI. I

716
00:52:39.880 --> 00:52:45.639
actually think the problem might be that
the FBI is too big and has too

717
00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:50.880
many responsibilities, and I encountertuitively the
thing to do is to have the FBI

718
00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:58.760
focus only on terrorism and espionage and
stop trying to do bank robberies, kidnappings.

719
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:01.760
Let the other federal agents sees being
charge of money laundering and be in

720
00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:07.559
charge of securities fraud, and you
just have the FBI focus really purely on

721
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:13.320
the external threat and not try to
patrol around the United States and trying to

722
00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:17.239
catch people. You're trying to catch
politicians for the dirty business that is politics.

723
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:21.880
And just the last point is this
is what the British do. I

724
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:25.360
generally, I know you and Rob
love the monarchy and want to imitate everything

725
00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:29.840
in Great Britain for reasons I don't
know. I know you guys were working

726
00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:36.400
to watch that you woke up.
But I think in this case the British

727
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:39.519
are right. You know Great Britain. They separate this function out so there's

728
00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:44.400
like a five AM I six you
know from the movies, but they actually

729
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:47.519
separate it so that the FBI would
actually be two separate bodies. Because when

730
00:53:47.559 --> 00:53:53.519
you mix fighting terrorists and fighting spies
and you mix it with policing domestically,

731
00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:57.920
bad things result. This is now
the second time we've learned had to go

732
00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:00.360
through this because of this problem.
I think that's the permanent, long term

733
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:07.519
solution. How likely that's going to
happen. Well, I you know,

734
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:09.840
we had a chance to do it
after the nine to eleven attacks, if

735
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:15.480
the Republicans were to win the Senate
and the Senate and the presidency. I

736
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:19.840
could see that happening again. But
I think people really should be upset about

737
00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:23.280
this is a This is a very
serious threat to democratic government if you have

738
00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:29.239
a right an unelected law, enforce, and bureaucracy that's interfering in elections.

739
00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:32.199
I guess my fear is that we
end up solving that problem the way we

740
00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:38.760
solve the intelligence problem by creating another
umbrella intelligence agency and then a national security

741
00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:44.840
apparatus that is tens of thousands of
people working all day. Yeah. We

742
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:47.280
all we did was put another layer
on top. Yeah, that's a great

743
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:50.960
point. I mean, DHS,
the Department of Homeland Security, has not

744
00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:55.079
been a happy tale, and so
what I guess what I'm arguing is decentralizing,

745
00:54:55.280 --> 00:55:00.960
actually splitting agencies up into smaller pieces
and making them compete in fight with

746
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:05.000
each other for resources and effort to
do a better job. I think centralization

747
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:07.360
has actually been a has not had
a good track record with our government,

748
00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:10.079
and this, you know, I
think this is another example. This durm

749
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:17.000
report John speechless speech us. Now, well, you know I'm gonna get

750
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:22.000
myself now a double if you have
more double egg McMuffin with sausage, and

751
00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:25.159
I'm I have one more question.
Do you have? Do you have ninety

752
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:29.519
seconds more? I gotta run.
But this is this is Rob says,

753
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:37.119
to leave him wanting more, right
before they start talking toomatoes right right,

754
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:42.719
see, thank you for joining us, Thank you bye bye bye. Uh

755
00:55:42.880 --> 00:55:49.119
so um no so much doesn't.
He's such a smart guy, he does.

756
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.920
So after all this stuff, you're
feeling a little, uh, a

757
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:55.559
little ill. You may have to
consult a doctor. And if you do,

758
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you'll have to consult your health plan. And as you know, health

759
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insurance plan is going to be confusing
and expensive. Then when you actually have

760
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to use your benefits, there are
deductibles. Planes process is another red tape

761
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health care and helps you pay for health

763
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expenses. You know, I will
talk about the minute I'm on strike.

764
00:56:17.800 --> 00:56:21.239
As a member of the Writer's Guild, I have a very good policy.

765
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Ritter's skilled policy is really really great. But it is absolutely baffling to use

766
00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:30.440
and baffling to understand and even when
to frequently ask questions. I'm not even

767
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and we thank crowdhealth for sponsoring the
Ricochet podcast. As I mentioned, I'm

786
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:51.519
on strike, so Rob, I
wanted to make you a guest to talk

787
00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:53.320
about that for a minute because we
have a lot of listeners who are interested,

788
00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:57.199
and you know, there you are
on the front lines of the supply

789
00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:00.239
chain to one of the most important
commodities, which is our entertainment, right

790
00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:05.320
exactly. I mean I know this
much about you know, strikes and unions,

791
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:07.519
just from history, which is they're
usually three act plays at least,

792
00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:10.920
right, This was gonna take a
while, and if you involve Hollywood people,

793
00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:15.119
it's probably a five act play.
And the short sign of this to

794
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:17.079
me this week was this hilarious story. I thought it was hilarious in the

795
00:58:17.079 --> 00:58:23.400
New York Times called picket Line and
Chill by Gena Sorellis, who is the

796
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:28.599
sex, dating and relationships columnist for
the New York Times. You might think

797
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:31.639
of this as the modern love column
meets the Teamsters Union. But it's all

798
00:58:31.639 --> 00:58:37.199
about how the picket lines are becoming
a meet up location and for lonely writers

799
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.000
to have been, you know,
oppressed by COVID or overworked or whatever.

800
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:45.800
And it's controversial, of course,
it's controversial because people say, well,

801
00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:50.360
here's one line from the story.
Some strikers also went online to criticize others

802
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:54.079
for expressing interest in dating on the
picket line, worried it could overshadow the

803
00:58:54.119 --> 00:59:00.480
strike. Apparently these writers aren't able
to multitask. But what's the state of

804
00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:04.760
play? When do you make of
this crazy scene? Well, I mean,

805
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:09.400
the the picketing thing is. I
mean, eventually there's going to be

806
00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:15.440
a picture of me in some embarrassing
posts or the sign looking we're incredibly awkward,

807
00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:17.000
embarrassed because you all have to we
all have to pick it. And

808
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:21.480
I'll feel a little bit appligated to
pick it this time because I actually there's

809
00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:24.920
about thirty five or forty percent of
everything they're asking for everything we're asking for

810
00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:29.639
I totally agree with. And about
another thirty percent that I think, oh,

811
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:30.400
well, you know if you can
get it good. And then there's

812
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:32.840
thirty percent I think is silly.
But you know you don't. You don't

813
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:37.280
get everything. You know, so
y, But like everything else in Hollywood,

814
00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:39.840
there's a there's a component, there's
a business component to it, which

815
00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:42.559
was like, where are you going
to picket? So I am in New

816
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:45.119
York, So I have a friend
who said, like, let's go the

817
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:47.760
only the only pick at thirty Rock. That's where all the cameras and celebrities

818
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:51.280
are. That's gonna be the most
fun. Don't go all the way to

819
00:59:51.679 --> 00:59:54.519
um in um you know, Maplewood, New Jersey, where there are a

820
00:59:54.519 --> 00:59:59.000
couple of sound stages and pick it
that because don't do that and you want

821
00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:01.679
to pick it. The writers is
the best time to picket is early five

822
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:05.159
thirty before, you know, in
the early in the morning. That's because

823
01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:07.280
that's when the teamsters get to work
and they can't cross the picket line.

824
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:09.440
But it was don't picket line.
You know most writers like I'll get there

825
01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:13.880
on eleven fifteen, you know,
with a coffee and a donut too late.

826
01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:19.400
Um so so. But in LA
especially, it's like, you know,

827
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:22.320
you get to see people you never
see because most writers are never you

828
01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:24.840
know, we don't you know,
hang out. There's no place for us

829
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:28.760
all to hang out. And so
a lot of people are there, all

830
01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:30.199
the people. A lot of people
are there with some very important writers like

831
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:34.719
show writers and people who do a
lot of development. Um uh, you

832
01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:37.679
know, they're younger writers are trying
to make friends with the older writers because

833
01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:40.280
you know, they're not supposed to
be working, but that doesn't mean they

834
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:45.000
can't be networking. And then finally
there is this kind of like, hey,

835
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:49.800
we're all you know, like if
you're a striking writer and you are

836
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.800
kind of flirting with another striking writer, you both know you're not going to

837
01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:57.480
go someplace expensive for the date,
right because you're both claiming to be broke,

838
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.480
so you're already kind of in the
same boat, and it's the only

839
01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:02.719
time you get together. The problem
with that article, which I read,

840
01:01:02.840 --> 01:01:09.960
was the I mean, I would
never recommend to any screenwriter, or probably

841
01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:15.960
any professional writer of any kind,
that they become involved romantically with any other

842
01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:19.599
writer or any other screenwriter. It's
best to not only have one in the

843
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:22.920
family at any given time, two
is dangerous. Oh so the real opportunity

844
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:28.679
here is for some cameras to show
up and start a reality series of meeting

845
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:32.480
on the pivot line they already have. Yeah, yeah, I mean the

846
01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:37.119
problem with it, the problem in
general, is that everything is the business

847
01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:40.400
has changed so radically like everything else, but um, and that you there's

848
01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:46.440
a there's a whole basket of things
that you can ask for that address the

849
01:01:46.519 --> 01:01:51.440
changes in the business and how it
will be going forward, But there's also

850
01:01:51.440 --> 01:01:53.119
a whole basket of things that you're
asking for that even if you've got everything

851
01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:57.519
you wanted, are still not going
to solve those problems. And that is

852
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:00.800
that is ultimately what the Writers Guild
is facing, which will a lot of

853
01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:05.320
a lot of trade unions are faced
in the past thirty four years, Like

854
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:07.760
even if you had everything, the
world has changed a lot, and there's

855
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:12.760
no uh, you know, you're
not You're You'll get everything you want on

856
01:02:12.760 --> 01:02:14.559
your list, but you're not gonna
get what you really need, which is

857
01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:17.119
a time machine. And I think
a lot of these a lot of a

858
01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:23.119
lot of these demands come unto that
heading. AI what's agoing to do to

859
01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:30.599
writers? I don't it would be
embarrassed as a writer to say they're going

860
01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:34.119
to try to replace me with a
robot, like really, you're that bad,

861
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:37.320
But they will. I don't think
some executive some of us is already

862
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:43.239
saying we don't need these guys.
The computers can do this. Here.

863
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:47.039
I think if you're writing daytime drama
right where you're just generating material every day,

864
01:02:47.079 --> 01:02:50.480
and it's a lot of material and
a lot of it is just people

865
01:02:50.599 --> 01:02:53.719
announcing things, right, then maybe
you could get a little help from AI.

866
01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:55.599
I don't know how. I don't. I don't think AI's written a

867
01:02:55.679 --> 01:02:59.239
joke yet. Maybe look, AI
may be able to write a joke,

868
01:02:59.280 --> 01:03:01.880
and if so, hey more power
to you. But hey, I could

869
01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:07.719
already handle certain scenes in days of
our lives. Yeah, probably, or

870
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:10.400
at least get you to the outlining
phase that you need. I mean,

871
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:13.679
if, um, here, here's
how I really think of it. These

872
01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:20.440
are just tools, right and if
you're if you're not good, the tool

873
01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:24.320
is going to kill you. And
if you're good, the tool will make

874
01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:29.039
you better. And if you're really
good, the tool will give you superpowers.

875
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:31.039
That's kind of how what I think
about it. Maybe I'm a polyenn

876
01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:36.760
optimist, but I genuinely think that
that the that I in the right hand.

877
01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:38.840
If you have talent already, the
tool will only make it better.

878
01:03:39.320 --> 01:03:45.760
Robotic surgery in the hands of a
bad surgeon is not great. Robotic surgery

879
01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:52.119
in the hands of a brilliant surgeon
is going to be life saving. Oh

880
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:55.599
the days I silence you. No, no, no, I'm just I'm

881
01:03:55.599 --> 01:04:00.480
just you. You implicitly compared yourself
to a brilliant surgeon. I again,

882
01:04:00.199 --> 01:04:06.039
no running chat GPT for no.
I just think that that that the tool

883
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:10.320
can make people. I mean,
I'm I'm I don't think I'll ever have

884
01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:14.440
to worry about it, because I
think it's going to happen well into my

885
01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:17.679
retirement age. But um, but
I would feel nerve. I would feel

886
01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:25.599
embarrassed to march march around demanding that
that the studios cease never replaced me with

887
01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:29.239
a machine. The whole point of
what I do is I can't be so

888
01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:30.840
so I'm sorry. I have to
ask one more because I do find this

889
01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:35.159
fascinating and maybe maybe on one podcast
you would we just make you the guests

890
01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:40.280
and we talk about entertainment. Was
so we do know. So computer CGI,

891
01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:43.760
computer graph what is it called?
Computer graphics? Generated images? I

892
01:04:43.800 --> 01:04:50.800
think computer generated images transformed the special
effects side of the business and eliminated a

893
01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:54.880
lot of jobs. It created some
new jobs, but it put into the

894
01:04:54.920 --> 01:05:00.320
hands of computer programmers. What all
people who used to build models and to

895
01:05:00.440 --> 01:05:06.920
transform that piece of entertainment? We
have that question, will AI transform some

896
01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:13.719
piece of entertainment? Second question,
why shouldn't the writers get everything they want?

897
01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:16.000
The big change in Hollywood in the
last quarter of a century has been

898
01:05:16.039 --> 01:05:21.639
the arrival of more money, lots
more money. It's not just the seven

899
01:05:21.679 --> 01:05:28.480
major studios anymore, and now it's
Netflix and Apple and Amazon. And why

900
01:05:28.519 --> 01:05:30.840
the heck shouldn't these guys? I
mean, the desire, the need for

901
01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:34.400
content is bigger than it's ever been. This should be a great time to

902
01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:39.039
be a writer. Over to you. In many ways it is a great

903
01:05:39.039 --> 01:05:41.880
time of writer. Writers baking more
money, and they're more writers employed.

904
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:45.599
There's all sorts of things that are
great about being a writer. And the

905
01:05:45.639 --> 01:05:47.960
reason why the right I believe the
writer skills shouldn't get everything it wants is

906
01:05:47.960 --> 01:05:50.320
because some of the things it wants
I think are bad and we'll be add

907
01:05:50.360 --> 01:05:55.519
for writers, right, I think. But there's always a balance in Hollywood

908
01:05:55.559 --> 01:06:00.440
between talent and luck, and people
who are successful think they're successful because they're

909
01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:03.280
talented, and people who are not
successful, I think those people are successful

910
01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:08.719
because they're lucky, and they're both
kind of right. And so what happens

911
01:06:08.719 --> 01:06:12.039
in Hollywood is you're kind of sustained
by this idea that if I just stay

912
01:06:12.119 --> 01:06:14.840
one more year, I'm going to
get my big break. Every actor feels

913
01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:17.840
that way, every writer feels that
way. I'll any small, little little

914
01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:23.559
tidbit of success seems to you to
point to the potemic of the future riches

915
01:06:23.559 --> 01:06:27.000
and Oscars and Emmy's and everything.
And the business kind of works on that,

916
01:06:27.079 --> 01:06:30.400
because the business kind of works by
having this big, big garden where

917
01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:33.039
you kind of can live for a
while if your Quentin Tarantino, you work

918
01:06:33.079 --> 01:06:36.320
in a video store for years of
all that stuff, right, And it

919
01:06:36.400 --> 01:06:39.719
kind of keeps you on the hook
because what if you do come up with

920
01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:41.719
a great idea. We don't want
you to come up a great idea and

921
01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:45.119
be living back in Bismarck, South
Dakota. Right, I mean not that

922
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:46.440
that's a bad play, s Court
we had a great center from there,

923
01:06:46.519 --> 01:06:49.719
but we want you to have that
great idea here where I can hear it

924
01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:54.440
and put it on TV or put
it into movies. Oh a quick idea,

925
01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:57.559
maybe, Peter, we ought to
hook up a chat GPT to some

926
01:06:57.639 --> 01:07:01.840
kind of voice box and see if
it could produce for us a ricochete podcast.

927
01:07:02.039 --> 01:07:04.960
Thank you very much. And now
somebody turning them off right now,

928
01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:13.079
this one could be so So the
question everyone should be everyone should be focused

929
01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:16.320
on this, which is how do
you create right what is the great secret

930
01:07:16.519 --> 01:07:20.920
to the enormous trillion dollar fortunes coming
out of palle alto coming out of Silicon

931
01:07:20.960 --> 01:07:27.199
valid It is not capitalism, really, and it is not the benefits of

932
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:30.239
the people who are risk capitalists and
then the brilliant of venture capitalists. It

933
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:38.480
is a nonprofit organization organizations Stanford University, cow places like that that support kind

934
01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:43.519
of water the garden and create the
opportunities, and the federal government creating DARPA

935
01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:50.159
and DARPA net creating the opportunities for
great um innovation. And that is what

936
01:07:50.199 --> 01:07:56.440
the entertainment business should be trying to
create. What how can we quasi subsidize

937
01:07:56.480 --> 01:08:00.039
a little bit this idea factory that
we have and that because that's they don't

938
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:02.719
think that way, they're going to
step. They're stepping on their own host,

939
01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:06.280
which I think is a real problem. And that so whether the writers

940
01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:10.519
are correct and everything they want or
not, I think it is time for

941
01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:15.320
there to be a rethinking of of
the way show business conducted. I mean,

942
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:17.399
look, all these guys got big
into the streaming business thinking there's the

943
01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:21.640
solution without once stopping to think about
how this is how this was potentially the

944
01:08:21.720 --> 01:08:25.000
dumbest thing they could ever do,
which is what they did, and they

945
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:28.399
did so because they were they were
absolutely encouraged to do that by Wall Street

946
01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:30.760
saying well, what is your streaming
plan? Because you look at Netflix,

947
01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:33.720
what is your streaming plan? And
what they should have said was, let's

948
01:08:33.800 --> 01:08:39.359
let Netflix just spend all the money
and die, right and just see what

949
01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:43.800
happens. Right. Netflix is putin
where are the Ukraine, Let's let's let's

950
01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:45.439
see how smart they really are and
if they run out of money, which

951
01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:50.000
they have, right, So all
sorts of like complicated things here. Um.

952
01:08:50.199 --> 01:08:57.840
The problem is that it ultimately comes
down to some perception of talent and

953
01:08:58.039 --> 01:09:02.239
some kind of luck and you can
pick it all day and not get any

954
01:09:02.359 --> 01:09:05.800
closer to those two things. So
uh. And in terms of chat,

955
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:11.119
GPT and AI, the people who
really should be worried about it are journalists

956
01:09:12.039 --> 01:09:15.319
nonfiction writers. Those are the people
who need to be thinking, because those

957
01:09:15.319 --> 01:09:20.960
people can be replaced, most of
them can be replaced by a by an

958
01:09:21.079 --> 01:09:26.560
unbiased machine if they ever come up
with one, right right, right right,

959
01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:30.279
mister Peabody's way back machine. Now, now what we need is the

960
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:36.720
unbiased machine exactly right, exactly right, which they which we would not need.

961
01:09:36.760 --> 01:09:44.159
By the way, if we believe
that our journalism was unbiased, right,

962
01:09:45.039 --> 01:09:48.960
the journalism created the opportunity. Now, speaking of opportunity, if you've

963
01:09:49.039 --> 01:09:53.880
enjoyed this as comes to you from
Ricochet and the Ricochet Network of podcasts,

964
01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:57.199
please check us out richet dot com. We'd love you for to join Ricochet.

965
01:09:57.239 --> 01:09:59.479
But even if you just think I'm
never going to join Ricochet, come

966
01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:01.960
to the tom anyway and see all
the podcasts that we offer and subscribe,

967
01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:05.199
and if you do join, which
we hope you do, you'll get to

968
01:10:05.279 --> 01:10:09.760
join us at the meetups. The
meetups are where members get together. They're

969
01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:13.800
fun and more than that, it's
like kind of your duty as a American

970
01:10:13.880 --> 01:10:16.680
citizen to meet up with the other
like minded, smart, funny, interesting

971
01:10:16.680 --> 01:10:19.680
American citizens. And by the way, if you ever want to make change

972
01:10:19.720 --> 01:10:21.920
in this country, you got to
meet face to face. And this week

973
01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:26.840
we got a bunch of meeting meetup
inquiries. Western Chauvinist has inquired about members

974
01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:30.279
in the UK. She's gonna be
around London Cornwall at the end of the

975
01:10:30.319 --> 01:10:32.680
month, So get online and if
you're for the UK or you're around there,

976
01:10:32.680 --> 01:10:34.960
you're gonna be there. Let us
know, let her know. Tory

977
01:10:35.039 --> 01:10:39.560
War Writer is back and hoping to
meet members in and around Columbus, Ohio

978
01:10:39.600 --> 01:10:43.680
in late June. Randy has another
meetup set up. He did the New

979
01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:45.720
Orleans meet up is Fantastics. Another
one set up for Winston Salem mid July.

980
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:49.840
Matt Baser's asking for OURSPPS for the
annual German Fest meetup in Milwaukee.

981
01:10:50.119 --> 01:10:55.279
That's the last weekend in July,
so we'd love to see one of these

982
01:10:55.319 --> 01:10:58.319
joint Mika Shay come and if you
if you're like, well, I'm not

983
01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:02.600
around the summer, well join Ricochet
put up a post how about somewhere closer

984
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:06.039
to you at a time you can
make it. Ricochet members will show up.

985
01:11:06.119 --> 01:11:12.439
That's what they do. Um,
this has been a great I mean

986
01:11:13.159 --> 01:11:15.960
we were sort of run out of
time, so I'll just say thanks guys,

987
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:18.399
thanks for joining us. Podcasts brought
to you by crowd Health. Support

988
01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:24.920
them by supporting us, or support
them for supporting us and join Ricochet.

989
01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:27.760
Take a minute if you have a
chance to leave a five star review and

990
01:11:27.800 --> 01:11:30.880
Apple podcast. Your review allows me
listeners to discover us. That's how the

991
01:11:30.920 --> 01:11:33.960
algorithm works, helps keep this show
and other shows going. Um, Steve,

992
01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:36.880
anything you want to say, you
sat in you you did a great

993
01:11:36.920 --> 01:11:41.840
job. Enough damage already. He
just said you got to host, so

994
01:11:41.880 --> 01:11:45.760
I didn't have to try to do
those Schrodegger's cat like sponsor segues that James

995
01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:53.399
does. Oh man, they're the
hardest. Yes, I purposely um mess

996
01:11:53.479 --> 01:11:57.199
them up because I figure it's better
for me to do a D minus version

997
01:11:57.680 --> 01:12:00.560
than a B minus version. You
know what I mean? Oh yeah,

998
01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:03.399
that's true, that's true, Steve. Steve, thank you though you were

999
01:12:03.399 --> 01:12:11.560
wonderful until you were suddenly terrible job. It's true about life. It's true

1000
01:12:11.560 --> 01:12:14.680
about life. Hey, fellas,
thanks for being here. See you soon.

1001
01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:21.600
Next week, Ricochet joined the conversation