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Oh wait, that's me. Sorry, I'm running. Oh my god,

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I'm completely is waiting for James.
Ask not what your country can do for

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you, ask what you can do
for your country. Mister Gerbatcheff, tear

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down this wall, read my lifts. It's the Ricochet Podcast. I'm rob

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Long joining Peter Robinson, sitting in
for James Lilas to Steve Hayward, and

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today we've got centered John Hoping and
longtime guests John Yu So stick around.

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And yet, for those of you
in the media don't report on that,

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you should be ashamed. This is
evil and the reason you don't see any

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Democrats here is they can't defend this. They're counting on the press not to

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cover it. It's roll Hello and
welcome to the Ricochet Podcast. This is

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podcast number six hundred forty two.
We're gonna have to stop. We're not

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just like recalibrate these like the Enny
and Currency or the New frank Um.

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I am rob Long, joined as
always by the Rickish my Ricichet co founder

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Peter Robinson. Paaloato, Hello,
Peter, Hello, Hello. We are

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usually joined by James Lilax. He's
not here today and sitting in for him

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is Steve Hayward. Steve, how
are you? I am good, ro

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I'm good to see you guys.
Now, so where are you, Steve?

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Did you mind might ask you where
exactly you are? Yeah, I'm

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kind of hard to pin down a
little bit like you. I'm currently my

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main residence in the central coast of
California and your passa robles nice? Nice?

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Any idea how that sounds? If
only our viewers can see how how

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tightly you've curled your pinky as you
say that, Thurston, I'm at my

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main resurance just down the hill from
the Hurst Castle. Sorry, all right,

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yeah, okay, So we have
a lot going on today. Um.

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We're joined later by John a Senator
John Hoven from um Um, from

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North Dakota. I can't believe it. A former senator, no senor,

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former governor, now senator. So
he's uh, why is he running for

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president? Peter, Well, we
should wait and ask to ask him,

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ask him. Maybe he has a
very good life as it is. He

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enjoys his state, his family and
his grandchildren and the Senate. And why

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mess it up? Anyway? I
think that's the And then later John,

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you will be here. I don't
even know I introduced John You. We

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all know John You. John will
be here to talk about I guess there

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was some some legal stuff in the
news. We can talk about that.

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But before we get to that,
before we get to the senator, before

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you get to professor you. Um, can we talk a little bit about

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drugs. A Danish study shows that
up to thirty percent of psychosis diagnoses and

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young men could have been prevented if
these individuals had not used marijuana. Yes,

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so the I guess it's the biggest
epidemiological investigation. We should talk to

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our friend Jabot to try about that. To date, and it does seem

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like, um, this news comes
in an opportune time when if you live

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in New York City, you smell
weed everywhere, and it is now legal

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almost everywhere, and it is considered
as benign, if not more benign than

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a martini. Well, Rostal that
has a piece in the New York Times.

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I continue to read the Times only
for the sake of our friend Ross

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Rostal that has a piece in the
New York Times saying that the effect legalization

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of marijuana, it's a little more
complicated than that, but in effect,

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it's been legalized across the cops have
stopped enforcing any marijuana laws almost everywhere.

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And there are shops all over New
York, as there are all over Los

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Angeles black market regulated it just they're
there. Ross says A this was a

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very big mistake. B. It's
almost impossible to say so, because and

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I'd like to hear Rob a Pine
on this one. I'd like to hear

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both of you, but Rob in
particular, because for several decades now,

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all the forces of what is cool
and with it and correct educated opinion have

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been in favor of legalization. And
it is almost impossible to raise a finger

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and say, folks, there's already
evidence that this is doing millions of people

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serious harm, because it sounds so
square. Polite opinion is just not a

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tune to hearing that, whatever the
evidence. But you are worried, Peter,

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about sounding square? Is that?
No? No, I'm worried about

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you. You're we've known each other
three decades. You've always been the cool

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one, and that's not even close. And here you are, here you

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are well, I suppose I said
a low bar, but no, I

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mean you're the cool conservative and and
here you are saying something square, collegnitive

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dissonance. Well, I don't know
if I don't know what, I don't

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know what I think of it.
To Steve, he's skipped an he's punting

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immediately, all right, he's slipping
and sliding away. I thought it was

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pretty good. Actually, all right, I'll wain with a couple of thoughts.

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One is this really isn't the brand
new finding this, this Danish study,

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I think I have been catches to
the eyebrows. It's because it's from

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those free swinging Scandinavians. Right.
There are lots of medical studies calling in

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the question of the effects of marijuana, that we've underestimated them and so forth.

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And yet you can't, Peter,
like you say, you cannot question

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this because it's a lawful lot like
some of the research on gender dysphoria and

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the whole transphenomenon, that there's active
suppression of contrary findings to what is currently

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fashionable. Um, I don't know
if you know this, Peter Robbie,

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probably don't. In the California legislature, there's currently a bill that would outlaw,

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by degrees over twenty years, all
tobacco sales in California. So if

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it passed and was signed, we
would have a world in which you couldn't

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buy tobacco products of any kind,
but marijuana would remain legal. Well why

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is that, Well, we know
why. It's it's not astounding. Now

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I think two things quickly and it'll
stop. You know, you've had these

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this proliferation of marijuana products. It's
not just weed that you roll up and

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smoke anymore. It's all these different
edibles, it's oils, It's on and

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on and on, a varying degrees
of potency. I mean, I don't

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know these things firsthand myself, but
you know, I hear that the industry

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and the people have been doing this
for decades have really figured out how to

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calibrate very high potency weed and so
forth. Yeah, and along with the

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sort of approval that the legalization has
bestowed on it, I think that the

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use of it has spread and there
isn't any you know, how do we

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what do we do about smoking?
Fifty years ago we started telling people that

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smoking was bad, and we're not
telling people that they should be careful at

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least out their marijuana use. And
so I think we're going to regret the

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rush to legalize it and promote it. The way we have. Finally,

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by the way, the marijuan industry
in California at the legal industry is losing

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money because it's overregulated and overtaxed.
And only in California could you make the

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weed industry unprofitable. Right, But
the black market, the are we even

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allowed to say black the market of
color? I don't even know what the

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illegal the unregulated market is everywhere.
Yeah, it's this weird thing where where

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the argument was, Look, maybe
it does some damage, not much,

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but a little bit. We're going
to legalize it, but then we will

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able to regulate it, will make
sure that it's safe, we'll be able

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to spot people right away who seem
to be having trouble. And that hasn't

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happened at all. What actually has
happened is that the illegal market, let's

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call it that. That's what is
blossomed. If you're crazy enough to try

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to stay within the regulations, you
have to sell your pot at a higher

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price to deal with all the regulatory
overhang, so you get undercut by the

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shop down. And it just means
that whatever control we had we've lost all

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together. I mean, I think
I own I think that's absolutely correct.

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I don't I don't think so.
I think two things happen. One is

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that people the very very strange thing
if people thought that the reason that it

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was that you would ever sell something
illegally was because it was illegal and not

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because you wanted to circumvent regulations.
So if you love regulations, you think,

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well, the man you put regulations
on this, everyone's going to conform,

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which, of course isn't what happens. You still want to like,

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you still want to circumvent it.
You still sell weed on the street here

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in New York City, or you
sell it illegally in some bedegas because the

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permitting process is complicated apparently, or
all that stuff. The second thing is

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that we live in this weird culture
where it isn't enough to say, well

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this thing isn't this stuff should be
legal, but it's not good for you,

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right, this should be legal and
you should before. The progressive mentality

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is that anything that's good for you
must be compulsory. Um. And that

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is sort of like the old PGA
of formulation was. You know, um,

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in a communist country, everything is
illegal except for a few things,

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and those things are compulsory. And
so the idea that like saying Hey,

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look, marijuana can be very dangerous
um like rum, and it should be

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regulated and and and maybe even frowned
upon like beer or rum. I mean

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I see people walking down the street
smoking weed all the time. I smell

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it from construction sites all the time. And if those people were in Manhattan,

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and those people are this is new
correct, No, No, this

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is like you know, this is
like past six months, two years,

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three years, right, Okay,
But the the pre legalization of predecriminalization so

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definitely was considered fine before the before
the city uh for city law, a

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dot of the eye, as you
might say, it was wide open.

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I mean, nobody was ever arrested
for this. But the idea that it

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isn't just so much that people are
doing it out in the open. If

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you replace that with a martini glass, if you saw two guys sitting on

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the stoop on eleven Street after before
they go back into the house to rewire

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that townhouse they're working on, and
they're sitting there drinking beer or a highball

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or a martini, you'd think,
hey, dudes, no, that's after

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work situation, right. But you
can't say that because you can't say that

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a full disclosure. I don't smoke
it. I don't I don't like it.

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I hate the smell. But you
can't say to somebody, all right,

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this is another one of your vices. But it's a vice that apparently

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is it has to solve everything.
And you put the weed cream on your

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knee and your knee doesn't hurt anymore. Like we have lost the ability to

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sort of be to be normal about
anything. Again, this goes to my

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my working definition or working theory of
of everything last week was everyone has lost

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their minds. And I think that
this is just one more instance of everybody

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losing their mind, unable to say, all right, this is your vice

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of choice, be careful with it, and maybe well kids shouldn't be doing

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it. I think it maybe even
worse than you think about everyone losing your

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mind, Rob, I think this
ought to connect to a larger phenomenon which

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also was reported this week, which
is the mortality rate among young Americans is

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up ten percent over the last couple
of years. And we know that life

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expectancy in the United States has taken
a dive for the first time in well

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ever, really, and Peter,
you will remember that back around nineteen eighty

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when Ronaldo's magnus ascended to the presidency. The first hint that the clever intelligence

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people got that the Soviet Union was
in trouble was falling lifespans in the Soviet

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Union. It had been rising and
after World War Two, and suddenly it

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took a dive in the late seventies. People like our friend Nick Eberstad said,

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there's something deeply wrong in that country. Now we can point to in

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this country, fentyl marijuana, rising
suicide rates, soaring rates of mental health

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distress. I am with Jay Bodicharia. I am convinced that the COVID lockdown,

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yes, was I mean, I
have kids, it was catastrophic.

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Correct or kids in particularly teens and
twenties, who are supposed to be getting

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out, meeting people, learning how
to socialize like adults. And am I

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wrong about that or doesn't that play
into this? No, that's absolutely right.

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But this is gonna have a long
lasting effect. And so I think

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we look, we need to have
a wider angle view than just the problem

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of marijuana and other things. I
think this is now a long term problem

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that we have. I think there's
a crisis underway, and it's a cultural

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crisis. As much as there's any
particular thing like marijuana or final If I

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could bring my father back to life
and say, well, listen, um,

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you live through the depression, you
served all four years of the Second

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World War at seem take a look. What do you think? He would

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be dazzled by the wealth, the
ease of life, the conveniences. I

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remember the year that was happened to
be the same year he died. I

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showed him, for the first time
he'd seen it, an email, and

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he just shook his head. He
said, madge, okay. And the

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idea that kids are killing themselves or
resorting to fenton All and booze and marijuana,

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this just would not compute. This
is not the country for which he

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went to war. Something serious has
gone wrong, and it's in our heads.

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We're not poor, it's in our
heads, by the way, Peter,

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on a lighter note for this Graham
subject, the first time I showed

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my mother an email, her question
back to me was how does it get

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out of the envelope and into your
computer as well? Not a dumb question

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really when you're a but Peter,
I think you're I think you're I think

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it's a constellation of things. I
think, like a lot of what happened

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in COVID, it amplify and exacerbated
trends that we already had. I think

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actually the target that the group that
was targeted the most for harm were sort

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of preteens and early teens, so
like middle school, young high school,

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early high school, because they really
were coming out of their shell and coming

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out of the home and coming out
of the nest at that point. So

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and that devastation is huge. I
think there's other parts of it too,

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which are that we and it's in
Richard Reeves a great book, Richard Reeves,

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guy at the Brick Constitution with a
book called of Boys and Men,

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Why the modern male is Struggling,
Why it matters, and what's d about

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it? And I think he's pointing
at some very very serious problems we have

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in the country with how we raise
men and how we raise boys. And

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you all know when you when you
fail at that, only bad things happen.

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Young men are the prime engine for
social chaos and crime and all sorts

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of terrible things when they are not
raised well or parented well. And I

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think that's what's happening not only by
their parents, but probably by but by

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the culture in general, which is
these are all big fat topics, and

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we can keep talking about them where
we can switch to other big fat topics

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because we have We are lucky to
have John Hoven. He was the thirty

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firs I said, thirty first governor
of North Dakota from two thousand and two

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thousand and ten. He is now
the senior US Senator from North Dakota.

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He's been on the podcast many times. He's a friend of our of the

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podcast. So I um, I
got a big question for him. So

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I gave a little thumbnail sketch of
your successful term as the governor of North

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Dakota, and now that you're the
current senior US senator there, why on

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earth are you not running for president? And don't come up with I don't

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want any excuses here. I want
the I want I want you to say,

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you know what good point, Rob, I'm in So, Rob,

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it is great to be with you
and Stephen. I don't know if Peter's

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joining or not. What I see
both you guys are from Berkeley, and

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I kind of marveled at that,
because you know, Peter is a Reagan

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Republican and a staunch staunch conservative,
and here I find out he's hanging out

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with two guys from Berkeley. Yes, I know this is directly germane to

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your question, so I thought I'd
launched right into it. You know,

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So, Peter, what gives what? I live in California? Senator?

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I do the best I can and
that's how low I've sunk. These guys

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are the best I can do.
Senator, you were down at the border

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just what was it? Just last
week? And I saw you on My

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Twitter feed was filled with you and
it sounded as though you were shocked at

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what you saw. So I'd like
to ask two questions, what did you

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see? And why does the senator
Why does the senator from North Dakota care?

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Do they do? They do?
The illegals make it as far as

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north as your state Western. It
effects every state in the Union. You

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know that, Peter, the fat
and all the human trafficking. You know

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that this is a national problem.
In border scurry is a national security I

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remember, we are a border state
and we're seeing, um, you know,

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our resources on the northern border being
uh you know, taken down to

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the southern border, and so you
know, we're starting to see problems on

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the northern border North Dakota. We
have responsibility for actually nine hundred miles of

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water all the way from essentially the
Great Lakes out through part of Montana because

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we're we have the Grand Forks sector
and so you know, we're familiar with

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border issues. Obviously, it is
very different on the northern border than it

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is in the southern ward. But
yeah, this is affecting every single state

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in the country. You're you're seeing
it in a lot of orders. Obviously,

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the human trafficking, the drugs or
over one hundred thousand deaths in fentanyl

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last year. The numbers keep growing. So it's it's affecting all of us

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and our kids. Uh. And
you know Board scres national Security. So

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so back to you know, you
said you said, I wasn't shocked because

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I've been down there many times now, I'm I'm doing everything. I keep

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going back because i want to solve
the problem. And the solution is for

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the Biden administration to enforce the law. It's that simple. And they've got

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to quit telling the American people and
somehow if the Congress did something or whatever,

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then they can secure the board.
No, they need to enforce the

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remain in Mexico policy and the third
Safe Country policy, and that's the law.

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If they would enforce it, that
would stop the illegal flow. Right

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now. We can get it into
more details, but it is that simple

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that it is that direct. They're
obfu skating, hunger of mynarchist's obfu skating.

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That's that's all that is. They
have the tools, and in fact,

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we have a responsibility to enforce the
law and stop this border crisis.

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No hey, senator, So why
is it so ian? Why you lay

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it out? It seems like it
should be easily easily done. Why is

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it so difficult? I mean,
people vote in twenty sixteen for Candida,

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say he's going to build a wall, and he didn't build it, and

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he all sorts of excuses why he
didn't build it. We can come up

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with all the reasons why, but
he didn't build it. He maybe he

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replaced some parts that Obama built,
but he didn't actually build any new role.

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It feels to me like securing the
border isn't that complicated. I mean,

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or at least the idea being if
once you make it harder across the

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border, you kind of send the
message all the way down to the tip

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of Tierra del Fuego, that this
is not a done deal. Don't set

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off on foot for something it's going
to be really good, it don't come.

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Why is this so difficult? I
mean, I have a hard time

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believing the the sort of very prevalent
conservative theory that this is the goal of

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the liberals and Democrats to replace conservatives
with loyal Democratic voters. But what are

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the other reasons why it can't just
be done? So rot if you look

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at what happened with the last administration, essentially we did get control of the

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water, and we do need a
border of all of border barrier whatever you

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want to call it. And it's
not the same in all places along the

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border. It's different depending on the
tomography and the situation. Rural areas obviously

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California and different than Texts, is
different than Arizona and so forth. So

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one, you do need a border
barrier, and you also need the people

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in the technology so that you actually
have control of the border. And that's

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not only so you can manage the
flow what comes through. And then you

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need technology at the ports of entry
so you can stand these you know,

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millions of vehicles that come across that
have contraband drugs other things, and so

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you need That's why you need the
technology. And then the other thing that

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does is once you get control of
the ports of entry, then your border

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patrol can actually track all the areas
into TWEET and make sure that the coyote

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days and the cartels are not bringing
people across. The human trafficking and the

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drugs one thing, but then also
you're seeing terrorists come across the work and

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you know the cartels want to establish
their criminal organizations in our country as well,

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And so it all goes together and
back to Peters where Peter Stern,

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I've been at this for some time. In other words, at a number

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of years ago, the governor,
Senator Shaheen and I we were governors together

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back in the day, and Chi
and I were a chair and ranking member

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on the appropriation subcommunity that had DHS. We went down and we went all

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along the Texas border to check it
out. So we worked on the funding

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back leading into Trump wanting to put
up the border barrier, which he did,

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rebuilt a lot of that. He
did as much as he could in

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his four years. Now, a
lot of those areas the Biden people are

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just leaving the materials sitting there on
the ground, materials that we've paid for,

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rather than finishing the wall. But
I've been to McCallan, del Rio,

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evil Pass, I've been to Pass
so that just in the last year

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plus, I've been on the other
side to Mexico, Ecuador, to Guatemala,

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to Colombia. And the thing is, what's going on right now is

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that because the Biden illustration will not
enforce the law very simply, the remain

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in Mexico third sif that's that would
stop it right now for CBP and word

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Patrol, then those professionals they could
then take control of order right now,

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even without additional barrier. But he
won't do it. And furthermore, now

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the title forty two is expired.
My orcas is saying there enforcing Title eight.

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They are not under Title eight.
You actually have to have an asylum

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plan, you know, for persecution, not not because you just want to

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immigrate. You actually have to be
pursued. You have to have an asylum

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claim to stay in the country.
And so they're and so what my orchass

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say, he's under tie Lake,
they're enforcing that. They're not. Because

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the individual comes across he says,
you know, I'm here, I want

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to have asylum or whatever. They
say, no, no, no,

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you have to go back for me. In mestally, he says, I

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want to appeal it. And then
once he appeals it, they give him

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a phone number that counts as a
preliminary hearing. He calls and he says,

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I have credible fear Unless the judge
says no, you got to go

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00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,079
back with The judge has nothing to
go on. So they stay, They're

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issued an alien identification number, they
get benefits, they get a work permit.

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They're here and they don't actually have
a court hearing day rob for about

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three to five years. That's not
enforcing the law. And even then even

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then they commit they can skip it. Yeah, and then well yeah,

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then they don't go to that hearing. You know, they're here for five

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years. That's if they're here.
Senator at Steve Hayward out in California.

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I'm so old I can remember when
many leading Democrats took a hawkers position on

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this issue. You can think of
Barbara Jordan's famous speech in the nineteen seventies,

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the Democratic Convention, Bill Clinton in
the nineteen nineties, even Barack Obama

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around twenty ten. I had some
hawkish rhetoric at least about the issue,

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and Jean Shaheen was working with the
Senator. As John just said, right

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well, Prederie Hampshire, it's somewhere
in the last decade, to make a

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long story short, the Democrats seem
to have sold out to the open borders

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ideology for whatever reasons. I think
there's a lot of bad ones. Really,

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they're all bad ones. And yet
in the last ten days or so,

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since the demise of Title forty two
became immant, you've seen several starting

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to change their mind a bit.
Senator Brown in Ohio. Maybe it's a

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00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,359
coincidence that senators who are up for
reelection next year. But still the question

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is, do you think that there's
a change among Democrats who were worried about

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this, at least enough of them. Is there possibly a majority in Congress

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for a tougher stance on immigration.
I think so, I hope so,

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and there needs to be. But
that's why I say every America needs to

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truly understand what's going on and homelands, curity security. A hundred of my

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00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:07,079
orchist sits and looks at you and
says it's a you know, the borders

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close that he's enforcing kind of late. He is not, and people need

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to understand it because when enough Americans
a process country simply understand that the Biden

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administration could stop this right now if
they just enforced the law, which is

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their job, and that those folks
all call their senators and their house members

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on the other side of the island, say enough of this and think about

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look at what's going on in New
York right now, where now they're starting

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to house migrants in public schools and
parents are coming out. Think about Mayor

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00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:48,440
Adams complaining about Governor Adam, Governor
Abbott from Texas sending some bustles of illegal

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00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:49,720
migrants are there, Well, that's
ten percent of what he's getting. He

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should be calling the White House.
It's the White House that's sending up the

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tens of thousands to him. And
so as you see these problems continue to

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grow, even in the so called
sanctuary cities, I hope enough Americans will

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00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:10,880
call their elected representatives, can say
enough and get the Biden administration to stop

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this. Senator, if I'd like
to ask you a question on a different

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00:26:14,839 --> 00:26:18,720
subject for a moment before you entered
the public service. You were a very

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successful banker, so obviously I want
to get your summary perspective on what's been

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happening with Silicon Valley Bank and the
slow rolling crisis of Happy right now first

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Republic of all the rest of that. What are you what's what should we

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00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,200
think about this? What are our
takeaways? What should we be watching for?

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00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,480
Well, clearly, in that case, the bank was mismanaged and the

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00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:41,759
regulators weren't on top of it,
and they should have been. And when

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that happens, those banks shouldn't fail. I mean they should go out of

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00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:51,039
business, just like other businesses go
out of business. That does not undermine

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the soundness of the overall system.
And that's what we need to separate this

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conflating a bad failure where it was
poorly run, where they got into all

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00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:03,119
the high tech stuff, where the
regulators didn't stay on top of it.

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That is, yes, an individual
case, and that bank should go out

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of business, and you know that, but that doesn't threaten the seat the

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00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:15,319
soundness of the other bank. And
we can't get into this deal where you

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know, you bail out every bank
that that is not what you well,

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00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:21,359
that was going to be my next
question is do you do you agree with

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00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,240
the decision to lift the deposit insurance
cabin. Well, what they started to

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00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,119
do, Stephen, was they were
going to arrange a sale or facility the

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00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,119
sale of that bank of the bank, which obviously was going to happen.

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00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,880
They were bidders, and that's let
the market. You know, sure they

379
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,359
can help with it, but the
market would have taken care of that by

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00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:42,079
uh, you know, and you've
seen that now subsequently with these other banks

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00:27:42,079 --> 00:27:47,880
where you know, the other bank
will step in and buy them because they

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00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,720
want those depositors, they want that
customer banks. But it shouldn't be federal

383
00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:56,200
bailble No, I mean, is
in a way center could you actually say

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00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:03,079
that bank? When banks go bust, it's a sign that the system is

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00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:11,039
healthy. That it's only unhealthy when
you create this attitude among bankers that regulators

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00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:14,480
will step in and bail you out. Yeah. Why should every bank be

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00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:17,599
able to stand business? No way, if they if they're partly run and

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00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:19,079
so on them, so forth,
they should go to business and you know

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00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,000
people, and they need to be
able to account of all. But the

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00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:27,160
system is sound, and other banks
will step up in a car that deposit

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00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,599
base, and so I mean the
system work. It wasn't designed. You

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00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,680
go ahead and bail out every bank
that was what's never designed them? Okay,

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00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,440
So I'm you want to you want
to jump in, Peter, go

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00:28:37,559 --> 00:28:40,799
right ahead. I do, but
but I want I'd like to, but

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00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,880
I want to change topics me too. I want to talk about politics a

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00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,640
little bit. Okay too. Okay, I'm gonna go first. You can

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00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:52,000
ask center you a reader, can
I ask a question you? Is that

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00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:56,000
the briberry in your home? That
your system? Is? That? Is

399
00:28:56,039 --> 00:29:00,160
that your is that your so library
to ahead, Senator. I'm a little

400
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,440
surprised. I guess this shows that
you weren't the most studious student at Dartmouth

401
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:10,960
College. This is Dartmouth. This
is one of the libraries inside Baker at

402
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:17,119
Dartmouth. Nice try though, all
right, Senator? That was kind of

403
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:22,039
good, wasn't it. It's yet
thrown me only I can't solve all this

404
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,880
Senator stuff, as as he just
revealed, we've been friends since with college.

405
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:32,160
So I'm going to call him John
John Donald Trump beat Joe Biden in

406
00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:37,440
North Dakota by two to one sixty
over sixty sixty six to thirty two.

407
00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:42,119
Right now, that wasn't as big
a margin as yours. When you get

408
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:47,119
yourself reelected, your margins or something
like four or five to one. It's

409
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,960
just amazing. Donald Trump's running again. Ron de Santis, what what are

410
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,480
you? Are you? What's your
position? Trump was? Trump was complicated

411
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,079
for you? And I discussed this
once. You said, your people up

412
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,319
in North Dakota have trouble with Trump
as a man, but they sure like

413
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,839
his policies. What positions that put
you in. His policies have been very

414
00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:12,720
good, as you know. But
you know, I take the approach that

415
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,599
that I've taken pretty much every time. I think we have to be careful

416
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,880
Peter about not this is when the
grassroots, when the Republicans, the you

417
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,759
know, the people that work there
rear end off for all US candidates year

418
00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:30,720
in year. This is when they
get to vet everybody, when they you

419
00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:33,200
know, they get the way in
and have an opinion. And I think

420
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,759
we make a mistake if we don't
spend some time listening to that and you

421
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:41,799
know, finding out who's running,
finding out what people think. And I

422
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:45,400
think we're pretty early on in that
process. As a matter of fact,

423
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:52,480
you're going to see Tim Scott,
who's marvelous. I'm sure you know him.

424
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,039
He just a phenomenal person, the
kind of guy that can bring people

425
00:30:56,039 --> 00:31:00,720
together. He's tremendous. De Santist
is going to get in. Um.

426
00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:03,880
You know, I was disappointed to
see that Mike Pompeo at least at this

427
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,000
point, says he's going to pass. He's tremendous. There are very talented

428
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,519
people that are going to be in
this race. And lets let's let's give

429
00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:18,880
the process a little time to unfold, and let's be careful not to be

430
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,559
trying to tell people how they should
go it too darn quick. Let's let's

431
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,240
this is when the grassroots get to
speak. Let's let's listen to him a

432
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,160
little bit and just kind of see
how this goes. Okay, so one

433
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,839
case you and okay, go ahead. No no, I was just gonna

434
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,559
say, so, you're really and
truly telling us that it's open ended right

435
00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:41,359
now. Donald Trump does not have
this wrapped up. Plenty of time to

436
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,079
think things through, fall in love
with this candidate, fall in love with

437
00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:48,720
another candidate. We do not know
who's going to win the Republican nomination.

438
00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:53,559
Yet you really believe that Peter all
the time when I listen to you guys

439
00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:59,599
in the media world, and you
know, with your prognostications and your polls,

440
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:01,640
all the things every day, and
I know what you got it sliced

441
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,559
and nice. You know, yeah, I kind of the whole of the

442
00:32:06,599 --> 00:32:08,519
election. But you know, I've
always kind of been one to say,

443
00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:12,759
well, we'll see, and I
think, you know, I know,

444
00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:16,839
oh kidding is signed. It's always
interesting to see the polls, the prognostications,

445
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,559
all this kind of stuff. Hey, but hey, this debase just

446
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,119
getting started, and I think it's
really important. I hain't got a lot

447
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,880
of talented people that are gonna be
involved. Well, Senator, you adroitly

448
00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:35,279
skipped over my question to start,
and I'll let you off. I want

449
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:37,920
to ask you again because I don't
want you to say no too loudly,

450
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,000
because I kind of feel like,
well, maybe I'll kind of leave some

451
00:32:39,079 --> 00:32:42,240
room for you to change your mind. But can we just talk about the

452
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,160
Senate in twenty and twenty twenty four? I mean, um, listen to

453
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,039
you talking about immigration and banking and
uh, you know, I'm sure down

454
00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:54,880
the list, Um, well,
like do it right, But it's hard

455
00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:00,599
for Republican Senator in twenty twenty three, to just make it happen. How

456
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:06,200
likely do you think the Republican Party
is to get control of the Senate in

457
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,240
twenty twenty four, to really really
put into place. A lot of these

458
00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:15,200
pieces of this agenda are that are
we desperately need we need to I mean,

459
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,359
at the end of the day,
you got to win elections. That's

460
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:22,000
one of the things that drives me
absolutely crazy is I listened to people say,

461
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:27,160
well, you know, they got
this great plan of procedure and all

462
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,200
these kinds of things, and somehow
we're going to outsmart the other guys,

463
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,599
and on and on and on,
and we're going to get our way even

464
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:37,079
though we're in the minority. It
doesn't work that way. We have to

465
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:42,960
have more votes to get our policies
in place. And this last mid term

466
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,440
cycle, you saw that, you
know, oh we were you know,

467
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:46,400
back to what I said a minute
ago, Oh we were going to get

468
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,000
a majority in the Senate for sure, and on and on and on,

469
00:33:50,119 --> 00:33:53,440
and we did it, and the
country's suffering because of that. I don't

470
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,240
care how smart or how nifty are
how good you are, Robert's school's waters

471
00:33:58,319 --> 00:34:01,759
or whatever. If they have more
votes then we do. They carry their

472
00:34:01,839 --> 00:34:07,079
policies. You are seeing what the
democratic policies are doing to this country,

473
00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:10,559
and it is not good. So
we've got to win the Senate, and

474
00:34:10,599 --> 00:34:15,400
we've got to win the presidency and
then get back to the kind of fundamentals

475
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,000
that made this country strong. So
Number one, we've got to win it.

476
00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:24,480
Number two, I'm hopeful that we
can, but the very again,

477
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,880
it's going to come back to winning
the hearts and minds and that this immigration

478
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:34,880
discussion is a great example. The
energy issue is a great example, the

479
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:40,199
debt ceiling and the outrageous spending,
the debt pods is a great example.

480
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,119
On every single one of this,
we have the right solutions, and at

481
00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:49,039
the end of the day, we've
got to convince not just our base,

482
00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:52,519
but enough of those people in the
middle that we need to win for the

483
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:57,199
good of this country. And it's
you know, they always say the next

484
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,679
election is the most important, but
it sure feels that way. Yeah,

485
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,480
Church feels the way. Catch one. I know, you gotta one last

486
00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:08,039
question because you were born in Bismarck, North Dakota. True, you're from

487
00:35:08,119 --> 00:35:10,840
North Dakota. You've been the governor
of the state, and now you're the

488
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,400
Senator from the state, and we
think, you know, I say,

489
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,000
we think people who don't live in
that part of the country tend to think

490
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,760
of that part of the country is
kind of always the same, but it

491
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:30,400
really is it. How what are
the big ways that North Dakota has changed

492
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,039
the people that you represent, the
people that you were the governor of,

493
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,960
you know, for the past twenty
years. It feels like everywhere else in

494
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,599
America has I've gone through some tumultuous, sometimes wrenching, sometimes very positive change.

495
00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:43,199
What about North Dakota? Good question? You know I like that question,

496
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,800
Rob, that that I really do
like that. See, Peter,

497
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,639
I can do this, Yeah,
exactly, Peter, I can argue that's

498
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:53,800
so hard. Yeah. First off, I'm so honored to represent the people

499
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,280
in North Dakota. And North Dakota
has always been an egg powerhouse. We

500
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,639
leave the nation in the production of
I don't know, fourteen or fifteen different

501
00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:05,199
crops were number one in Pontee.
You know, we get livestock. I

502
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,719
mean, we're a very strong egg
state. We've boys been an egg powerhouse,

503
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,840
but we've added that we're not an
energy powerhouse. You know, we're

504
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,199
either second to Texas or sometimes in
Mexico's in there because of the public lands

505
00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:22,719
in terms of oil and gas production. But we've also developed a lot more

506
00:36:22,039 --> 00:36:25,639
technology. We've gone from an older
state to one of the youngest states because

507
00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:29,800
we're attracting people, because we have
a lot of jobs. We have a

508
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:35,320
very high per capid income. So
what where we've changed is we've gone from

509
00:36:35,519 --> 00:36:38,239
kind of just the farming state to
really doing a lot of these other things

510
00:36:38,599 --> 00:36:43,719
and innovating in some really exciting ways. So we're leading the country and carbon

511
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:49,039
capture for a cou fired electric industry. So I need just I think,

512
00:36:49,159 --> 00:36:52,880
you know, in many ways,
we've become a much more dynamic state.

513
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,239
We're doing incredible things at unmanned aviation, we have this incredible tech park,

514
00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:02,119
Grand Sky and Grand Forks. I
think in that respect, like you say,

515
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,280
every place changes, um, but
I think we've retained that kind of

516
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:13,880
fundamental, down to earth common sense
approach that I think is, you know,

517
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,920
just a wonderful attribute for our statement, something I think is really important

518
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,599
for our country consense. So so
America should be a little bit more like

519
00:37:22,639 --> 00:37:27,840
North Dakoda. Well, of course, I feel, are you bet Centator

520
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,079
thank you for joining us. Really
pay to hope you come back again,

521
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,360
Um, especially as the twenty twenty
four general elect gets a little more complicated,

522
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,159
a little more interesting. I'd love
to hear some more of your perspective.

523
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,559
Thanks, guys, I've really enjoyed
being with Take care of it.

524
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:53,880
Tell missus Hallivan. We send our
best um from from I don't know how

525
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:59,960
to put it, from the from
the heights of the of of Statesman Life

526
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:07,159
Capital, from the Governor's office,
to the to the to to to the

527
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:14,119
the brainchild of our founders in central
to Philadelphia, Chief check to mcgribb.

528
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:20,159
We are now welcome our old friend, Professor John You, professor at UH

529
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,880
Bolt Law School where they still say
Bolt right, don't say don't we got

530
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:28,800
renamed because we got only renamed.
Formerly a Berkeley Law School fellow at Hoover

531
00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:37,559
and American Enterprise Institute podcaster UH co
star with equal billing for some reason on

532
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:44,599
Law Talk UM and of course UM, he occasionally co hosts with our own

533
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:51,599
Steve Hayward. UM. Welcome John
You. You know Steve and I have

534
00:38:51,679 --> 00:38:55,039
this other podcast where we replaced a
whole bunch of you with one woman named

535
00:38:55,079 --> 00:39:01,400
Lucretia, whose identity we protects identity
we attacked by using ancient Roman pseudonyms.

536
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:07,800
She's more Yeah, if she had
larryin Chinas, she'd still be better than

537
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:15,400
you guys. Come on comparison after
this is all over. Hey, all

538
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:23,280
right, funny times over, John
Um put yourself back briefly in the Department

539
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:35,960
of Justice, just pretend. Uh. The search warrant on Robinson's house commission

540
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:44,920
the Age Old dream. Uh.
The Durham Report comes out and everybody reads

541
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,199
it. Some people read it for
the first time. Some people read it

542
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:52,079
the Friday afternoon, and they release
it on a Monday. How bad?

543
00:39:53,199 --> 00:40:00,480
How bad is it? Both from
your perspective outside and also if you were

544
00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:06,679
in there, what would you be
saying inside the DOJ that Monday lunchtime after

545
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:12,559
everybody's read this report. I'm fraid
the way a lot of people there think

546
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,000
is well, at least they're not
going to fire me, So that's the

547
00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:20,719
first thing they read the report to
see where they're mentioned and to make sure

548
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,239
they take of them. But but
seriously, they would worry that something has

549
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,800
gone seriously wrong with the FBI and
the Justice Department. All right, this

550
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:36,960
is as harsh as you can get
without actually throwing people in jail. Right,

551
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:43,239
the FBI and the just Department are
supposed to neutrallly investigate crimes and to

552
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,559
prosecute them. And what does a
dirm report show? It was a It's

553
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:52,840
it's really really not controverted these days, right, it's one the incumbent party

554
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:59,800
controlling the White House. Their presidential
kendidate, Hillary Clinton, concocted a completely

555
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:06,320
made up scheme claiming that her opponent, right, the outer party candidate,

556
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:10,239
was a Russian spy. Right,
So that's just implausible on his face,

557
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:19,320
no evidence, ridiculous and either tricked, duped, or had willing conspirators in

558
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:25,079
the FBI who took that information and
launched a two to three year probe of

559
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:32,360
a candidate and then the winning candidate
a president. You sit there and say,

560
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:39,360
what has happened to the idea of
neutral, nonpartisan law enforcement. This

561
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,280
is the thing. This Durham is
not some outside investigator. He's one of

562
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,480
their own, right, He's one
of the most neutral, most nonpartisan.

563
00:41:46,159 --> 00:41:50,519
Do you prosecutors in the history of
the Department? Did you know him?

564
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,880
We've met him maybe once. I've
met him maybe once. So there's no

565
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:59,679
beef here we gotta get you know, so, um it comes it comes

566
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:00,719
out to a lot of things.
But one of the things that comes down

567
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:09,599
to is the subversion of the FISA
process, right, which um is something

568
00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:15,880
that was predicted in two thousand and
whatever when they were arguing the Patriot Act.

569
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,920
I mean people, you know,
especially Libertaris parents were saying, yeah,

570
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,039
we're saying this, this is gonna
be trouble. We passed this,

571
00:42:23,079 --> 00:42:27,480
it's gonna be trouble, and it
turns out it's trouble. So how do

572
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,599
you fix it? This is the
bigger picture, which I think goes beyond

573
00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:36,440
the Durham report that he you know, Durham barely addressed, which is look,

574
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,639
if I read this report and I
put the words al Qaeda instead of

575
00:42:39,639 --> 00:42:45,039
Republican Party in, and I put
Osama bin Lauden instead of Donald Trump in.

576
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,360
These were the tools that we created. But I know sometimes people on

577
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,559
MSNBC make that mistake over and over
again. But they different, Yeah,

578
00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:58,400
well they like the other, they
like the they prefer it. You know,

579
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:04,679
if those hours and authorities we're all
supposed to be turned outward to investigate

580
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,519
terrorists, to investigate foreign spies,
the mistake they made. And this is

581
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,840
again Durham does not does not really
scratch the surface of how to think about

582
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,159
this, how to cure it is
it was turned inwards. If you think

583
00:43:16,159 --> 00:43:21,320
about is exactly what happened in Watergate. This is exactly what Richard Nixon did.

584
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,920
He used the CI. Sorry,
well, you and you, you

585
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,159
and I Steve always think Nixon doesn't
get all the credit he should get in

586
00:43:30,159 --> 00:43:34,719
Watergate wasn't so bad, but it
is. It is exactly the same thing

587
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,760
in the sense that these powerful,
you know, tools like Feisser, like

588
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:44,480
surveillance, So those were all supposed
to be used to protect the national security

589
00:43:44,519 --> 00:43:50,880
from threats of vall abroad, never
supposed to be used to go after domestics

590
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,840
domesticory, and specifically not to be
used to interfere in political campaigns. That's

591
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,639
the lesson of Watergate. Well,
but look, I mean it's a thought

592
00:43:57,679 --> 00:44:00,840
experiment here. I mean, it's
one thing to bug your opposition campaign and

593
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,360
it's one thing to try and prevent
the FBI from investigating it, Which are

594
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,440
the two things around Nixon or as
people did. What if Nixon had used

595
00:44:09,559 --> 00:44:15,159
phony you made up intelligence to start
a criminal investigation by the FBI, and

596
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,960
that everybody, all the people the
highest reaches knew about it. You know,

597
00:44:19,039 --> 00:44:21,599
Nixon didn't know about the Watergate burgery. We're pretty sure, we think

598
00:44:21,639 --> 00:44:25,559
anyway, Oh my goodness, they'd
still be prosecuting Nixon even though he's been

599
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:30,280
dead thirty years. I can't believe
that this shouldn't at least raise the prospect

600
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:36,000
of conspiracy charges against Hillary Clinton and
the people around her, against people in

601
00:44:36,039 --> 00:44:38,920
the FBI. It seems to me
that this ought to have serious criminal consequences,

602
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,519
but it's been played out so slowly
that it's sort of like the old

603
00:44:43,519 --> 00:44:45,199
Clinton playbook. If you just slow
things done long enough, it'll just sort

604
00:44:45,199 --> 00:44:50,199
of evaporate and lose its force.
I feel bad for Durham, and he

605
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:52,639
says in this report, he says, look, there's a lot of things

606
00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:57,239
here that went wrong. There was
a lot of bad action. Not all

607
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,840
bad action is criminal. I can't
and he this is basically, look,

608
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:05,719
I tried to prosecute two low level
people and they were acquitted. The Justice

609
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,320
of Warner rarely loses on acquittal.
I mean, the JUMAR usually wins ninety

610
00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:13,719
nine of its cases. So Durham
essentially said, look, I'm issuing this

611
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,199
report so the American people and Congress
can see all the bad things that were

612
00:45:17,199 --> 00:45:22,480
done, and you have to use
other means to hold them accountable other than

613
00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:24,360
trying to throw them in jail,
because that's not going to work. So

614
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,079
I agree with you, Steve,
that some of the things that happened here

615
00:45:28,119 --> 00:45:30,480
are worse in the sense of who
was involved. It's almost worse in the

616
00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:36,119
sense that the bureaucracy. You know, Watergate was a few really bad apples.

617
00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:39,440
I'm watching this great HBO series starring
Woody House Harrison, you know,

618
00:45:39,679 --> 00:45:44,760
Rob's old buddy. Somehow they turned
Rob's old buddy in a White House plumber.

619
00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:46,639
You know, the Rob's got a
future here. I think he could.

620
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:52,239
He'd be a great uh you know
DNC chair getting hacked in the next

621
00:45:52,559 --> 00:45:55,920
series on Hillary Clinton. But look, these are a few bad apples here.

622
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,320
It's almost the bureaucracy, right,
the leadership of the FBO, of

623
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,519
one mind believed it. So it's
almost a greater threat, harder to cure

624
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,719
in a way, Steven, throwing
a few people in jail, John that

625
00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:10,199
Peter wants to get in. But
before we go, like the Nixon and

626
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,679
now Dixon comparison. I think it's
really interesting because you know, I know

627
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:15,679
that you know, I don't want
to insult the two of you, you

628
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,960
know, NIXONO files, but like
Nixon was kind of a weirdo and paranoid

629
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,960
and had lots of weird He was
psychologically damaged, and I believe that he

630
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,360
had enemies around the corner. And
in case of Nixon, he kind of

631
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:30,920
did. But like part of the
weirdness of Watergate was that he invested that

632
00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:37,239
someone felt they needed to break into
the opposition office in Watergate Hotel, a

633
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,880
person that pretty much was already at
like zero in the polls. Right.

634
00:46:40,039 --> 00:46:45,599
Nixon then went on to win I
mean every single state, right, with

635
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:51,480
one of the most smashing popular vote
and electoral vote victories in American political history.

636
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:58,599
And at the time that the Clinton
administrate, that Hillary Clinton campaign was

637
00:46:59,039 --> 00:47:06,559
devising this nonsense and trying to get
FISA authorization, she was the poles were

638
00:47:06,599 --> 00:47:12,000
saying she was gonna win like,
you know, ten twenty thirty points all

639
00:47:12,039 --> 00:47:15,360
the way. Like even election night, there were only a few people who

640
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,239
were sort of inside I mean,
I mean people in the Clinton administration,

641
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,920
I mean the Clinton campaign who were
worried. One of them was Bill Clinton,

642
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,880
because he is a political mastermind.
He knows a campaign in trouble when

643
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,920
he sees one. But most people
thought, ah, you know what's Donald

644
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,880
Trump's gonna go down? Donald Trump
thought Donald Trump is gonna go down.

645
00:47:36,119 --> 00:47:40,719
So what is about? What is
the psychosis here? The Richard Nixon Hillary

646
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:45,559
Clinton psychosis which people have already,
they've already been comparing those two since she

647
00:47:45,639 --> 00:47:53,760
burst on the scene in nineteen ninety
one. What what about people who seem

648
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:59,519
like they have all the cards?
Make drives them to become this paranoid and

649
00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:04,000
weird, like, why even bother
to do this? Is my question?

650
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,159
Yea, rob this is a hard
question. This is something prosecutors can't figure

651
00:48:09,159 --> 00:48:14,599
out. Right. This is going
to be probably some psychiatric report on one

652
00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:16,760
of Hillary Clinton's servers, which meets
is probably in the hands of China and

653
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:22,559
Russia right now, who knows,
But this is this is part of it.

654
00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:25,559
This It was going to be a
close election. Hillary tried, just

655
00:48:25,639 --> 00:48:30,840
like President Nixon tried every dirty trick
in the book. The sad thing about

656
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:37,159
the Durham report is how far this
dirty trick went. And Durham's report is

657
00:48:37,199 --> 00:48:40,079
telling us in a way, it's
the answer that you're looking for. I

658
00:48:40,119 --> 00:48:43,639
think, Rob, is the answer
is not going to come from throwing people

659
00:48:43,679 --> 00:48:47,159
in jail. It's going to come
from Congress right radically restructuring the FBI and

660
00:48:47,159 --> 00:48:51,840
the Just Department and making a difference
in the twenty twenty four elections. Aren't

661
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,280
you struck by how all the people
who are in the Obama administration are now

662
00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:59,920
you know, back for a rerun
with the Biden administration. How a lot

663
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:02,039
of these names that you see in
the Durham report, we're part of the

664
00:49:02,039 --> 00:49:06,800
fifty one intelligence officials who you know, said the Hunter, Biden, Bob

665
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,079
Top. Don't look here. There's
still a chance to hold them accountable,

666
00:49:09,159 --> 00:49:13,199
Rob, But you do have to
do it through elections and politics, you

667
00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:15,280
know. Durham basically said, you
can't you you know, the Justice Department

668
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,880
can't fix this problem for you.
If you got these people at the top

669
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,679
of their parties, who are you
know, running these crazy eyed campaigns,

670
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,800
do these terrible things, and then
have lots of willing underlings. We can't

671
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,400
solve that problem by throwing them all
in jail. John, I'm going to

672
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,880
ask you a question. I don't
know whether you're going to answer it,

673
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,119
though, because I am told by
our producer that we had small words where

674
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:44,920
we had to swear that you could
leave. He can't something like three minutes.

675
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,480
Apparently you have to get to the
McDonald's, when before before they stopped

676
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:53,440
serving correctly. Oh you you you
have just invited a blizzard of photos from

677
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:58,920
me to you to show proof that's
wrong. Where I'm going, that's right

678
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,800
where I'm going. I'm going ask
two questions. I'm going to ask two

679
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,920
questions really fast, and then you
do as much as you have time to

680
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,920
do with them. Question number one. When you were at the Department of

681
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:15,000
Justice during the administration of George W. Bush, if you had been told

682
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,280
that a couple of decades later this
would happen, you would have said,

683
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,679
oh, sure there's corruption around here, or you would have said impossible,

684
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:30,079
not in the FBI, not a
d J. That's question one. Question

685
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:36,119
two. Vivic Ramaswami, who's running
for president, has said, Okay,

686
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,519
that's it. J Edgar Hoover.
We know what the nonsense j Edgar Hoover

687
00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:45,000
got up to because your former judge
Larry Silberman was responsible for reading through the

688
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:50,360
Hoover correspondence, and he said it
was the worst job. Can I say

689
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,280
something about that? Peter? I
used to beg him, nag him every

690
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:58,360
time I talked to something, to
something about what was it? Just one

691
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,599
little thing he was? He never
tell me he was. He would never

692
00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:04,719
when he would start that, but
he would curse, set me a lot.

693
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,000
He would. That would usually string
some curses. So whenever he was

694
00:51:07,039 --> 00:51:09,920
giving me a hard time about something
that I didn't want to tell him,

695
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,480
I would always say to him,
can you tell me something from the Hoover

696
00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:15,760
files? And they john blah blah
blah. You know, I can't tell

697
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:20,239
you anything about that. So usually
would That's how I would win arguments with

698
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,639
him. All right, Jed Hoover
was corrupt, Mark felt deep throat.

699
00:51:23,679 --> 00:51:30,800
We now know was a was a
was a self serving FBI bureaucrat who brought

700
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:35,280
down Richard Nixon. And now we
have this James Comey, whose self regard

701
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:43,320
is breathtaking and who was engaged in
corrupt activity up to his nostrils. Vic

702
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,920
Ramaswami says, that's it. Shut
this thing down and end the FBI,

703
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,159
and let's come up with the new
domestic intelligence and law enforcement Bureau from scratch,

704
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,960
and John You says yes or no, those are two questions I will

705
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,800
now fall side. Well no,
Well, I don't think fund the polices

706
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:05,400
of winning message for Republicans, so
I don't think that's a good idea.

707
00:52:05,559 --> 00:52:08,800
But I take your point right now. Back when I was a one and

708
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:13,559
o two I was I helped draft
the Patriot Act. I lobbied on Congress

709
00:52:13,679 --> 00:52:15,239
for it. Not lobby it's the
wrong word. But you know, I

710
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,320
presently worked with Congress to get it
past. And I never thought this would

711
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,719
happen. I thought the lessons from
Watergate were well learned and hardwired into the

712
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:30,880
Justice Department and the FBI not to
use these awesome powers for anything but terrorism

713
00:52:31,079 --> 00:52:36,039
and encounter espionage. So it seems
to me the answer Peter's tricking because he

714
00:52:36,039 --> 00:52:37,599
knows I'm an optimist, and so
I don't think this is the end of

715
00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:39,880
the world. I don't think we
should get rid of the FBI. I

716
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:45,639
actually think the problem might be that
the FBI is too big and has too

717
00:52:45,639 --> 00:52:50,880
many responsibilities, and I encountertuitively the
thing to do is to have the FBI

718
00:52:51,039 --> 00:52:58,760
focus only on terrorism and espionage and
stop trying to do bank robberies, kidnappings.

719
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,760
Let the other federal agents sees being
charge of money laundering and be in

720
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:07,559
charge of securities fraud, and you
just have the FBI focus really purely on

721
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:13,320
the external threat and not try to
patrol around the United States and trying to

722
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,239
catch people. You're trying to catch
politicians for the dirty business that is politics.

723
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,880
And just the last point is this
is what the British do. I

724
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,360
generally, I know you and Rob
love the monarchy and want to imitate everything

725
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,840
in Great Britain for reasons I don't
know. I know you guys were working

726
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:36,400
to watch that you woke up.
But I think in this case the British

727
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,519
are right. You know Great Britain. They separate this function out so there's

728
00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:44,400
like a five AM I six you
know from the movies, but they actually

729
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,519
separate it so that the FBI would
actually be two separate bodies. Because when

730
00:53:47,559 --> 00:53:53,519
you mix fighting terrorists and fighting spies
and you mix it with policing domestically,

731
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,920
bad things result. This is now
the second time we've learned had to go

732
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,360
through this because of this problem.
I think that's the permanent, long term

733
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:07,519
solution. How likely that's going to
happen. Well, I you know,

734
00:54:07,559 --> 00:54:09,840
we had a chance to do it
after the nine to eleven attacks, if

735
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:15,480
the Republicans were to win the Senate
and the Senate and the presidency. I

736
00:54:15,519 --> 00:54:19,840
could see that happening again. But
I think people really should be upset about

737
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,280
this is a This is a very
serious threat to democratic government if you have

738
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:29,239
a right an unelected law, enforce, and bureaucracy that's interfering in elections.

739
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,199
I guess my fear is that we
end up solving that problem the way we

740
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:38,760
solve the intelligence problem by creating another
umbrella intelligence agency and then a national security

741
00:54:39,519 --> 00:54:44,840
apparatus that is tens of thousands of
people working all day. Yeah. We

742
00:54:45,079 --> 00:54:47,280
all we did was put another layer
on top. Yeah, that's a great

743
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,960
point. I mean, DHS,
the Department of Homeland Security, has not

744
00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:55,079
been a happy tale, and so
what I guess what I'm arguing is decentralizing,

745
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:00,960
actually splitting agencies up into smaller pieces
and making them compete in fight with

746
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,000
each other for resources and effort to
do a better job. I think centralization

747
00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:07,360
has actually been a has not had
a good track record with our government,

748
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,079
and this, you know, I
think this is another example. This durm

749
00:55:10,079 --> 00:55:17,000
report John speechless speech us. Now, well, you know I'm gonna get

750
00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:22,000
myself now a double if you have
more double egg McMuffin with sausage, and

751
00:55:22,039 --> 00:55:25,159
I'm I have one more question.
Do you have? Do you have ninety

752
00:55:25,199 --> 00:55:29,519
seconds more? I gotta run.
But this is this is Rob says,

753
00:55:29,519 --> 00:55:37,119
to leave him wanting more, right
before they start talking toomatoes right right,

754
00:55:37,639 --> 00:55:42,719
see, thank you for joining us, Thank you bye bye bye. Uh

755
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:49,119
so um no so much doesn't.
He's such a smart guy, he does.

756
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,920
So after all this stuff, you're
feeling a little, uh, a

757
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consult a doctor. And if you do,

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you'll have to consult your health plan. And as you know, health

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insurance plan is going to be confusing
and expensive. Then when you actually have

760
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deductibles. Planes process is another red tape

761
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health care and helps you pay for health

763
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expenses. You know, I will
talk about the minute I'm on strike.

764
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,239
As a member of the Writer's Guild, I have a very good policy.

765
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Ritter's skilled policy is really really great. But it is absolutely baffling to use

766
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767
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and we thank crowdhealth for sponsoring the
Ricochet podcast. As I mentioned, I'm

786
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:51,519
on strike, so Rob, I
wanted to make you a guest to talk

787
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:53,320
about that for a minute because we
have a lot of listeners who are interested,

788
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,199
and you know, there you are
on the front lines of the supply

789
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,239
chain to one of the most important
commodities, which is our entertainment, right

790
00:58:00,039 --> 00:58:05,320
exactly. I mean I know this
much about you know, strikes and unions,

791
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,519
just from history, which is they're
usually three act plays at least,

792
00:58:08,239 --> 00:58:10,920
right, This was gonna take a
while, and if you involve Hollywood people,

793
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:15,119
it's probably a five act play.
And the short sign of this to

794
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:17,079
me this week was this hilarious story. I thought it was hilarious in the

795
00:58:17,079 --> 00:58:23,400
New York Times called picket Line and
Chill by Gena Sorellis, who is the

796
00:58:23,519 --> 00:58:28,599
sex, dating and relationships columnist for
the New York Times. You might think

797
00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:31,639
of this as the modern love column
meets the Teamsters Union. But it's all

798
00:58:31,639 --> 00:58:37,199
about how the picket lines are becoming
a meet up location and for lonely writers

799
00:58:37,199 --> 00:58:40,000
to have been, you know,
oppressed by COVID or overworked or whatever.

800
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:45,800
And it's controversial, of course,
it's controversial because people say, well,

801
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,360
here's one line from the story.
Some strikers also went online to criticize others

802
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:54,079
for expressing interest in dating on the
picket line, worried it could overshadow the

803
00:58:54,119 --> 00:59:00,480
strike. Apparently these writers aren't able
to multitask. But what's the state of

804
00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:04,760
play? When do you make of
this crazy scene? Well, I mean,

805
00:59:05,519 --> 00:59:09,400
the the picketing thing is. I
mean, eventually there's going to be

806
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:15,440
a picture of me in some embarrassing
posts or the sign looking we're incredibly awkward,

807
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,000
embarrassed because you all have to we
all have to pick it. And

808
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,480
I'll feel a little bit appligated to
pick it this time because I actually there's

809
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,920
about thirty five or forty percent of
everything they're asking for everything we're asking for

810
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:29,639
I totally agree with. And about
another thirty percent that I think, oh,

811
00:59:29,639 --> 00:59:30,400
well, you know if you can
get it good. And then there's

812
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,840
thirty percent I think is silly.
But you know you don't. You don't

813
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,280
get everything. You know, so
y, But like everything else in Hollywood,

814
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,840
there's a there's a component, there's
a business component to it, which

815
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,559
was like, where are you going
to picket? So I am in New

816
00:59:42,639 --> 00:59:45,119
York, So I have a friend
who said, like, let's go the

817
00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:47,760
only the only pick at thirty Rock. That's where all the cameras and celebrities

818
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,280
are. That's gonna be the most
fun. Don't go all the way to

819
00:59:51,679 --> 00:59:54,519
um in um you know, Maplewood, New Jersey, where there are a

820
00:59:54,519 --> 00:59:59,000
couple of sound stages and pick it
that because don't do that and you want

821
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,679
to pick it. The writers is
the best time to picket is early five

822
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,159
thirty before, you know, in
the early in the morning. That's because

823
01:00:05,199 --> 01:00:07,280
that's when the teamsters get to work
and they can't cross the picket line.

824
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,440
But it was don't picket line.
You know most writers like I'll get there

825
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,880
on eleven fifteen, you know,
with a coffee and a donut too late.

826
01:00:14,519 --> 01:00:19,400
Um so so. But in LA
especially, it's like, you know,

827
01:00:19,559 --> 01:00:22,320
you get to see people you never
see because most writers are never you

828
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,840
know, we don't you know,
hang out. There's no place for us

829
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,760
all to hang out. And so
a lot of people are there, all

830
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,199
the people. A lot of people
are there with some very important writers like

831
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,719
show writers and people who do a
lot of development. Um uh, you

832
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,679
know, they're younger writers are trying
to make friends with the older writers because

833
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,280
you know, they're not supposed to
be working, but that doesn't mean they

834
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:45,000
can't be networking. And then finally
there is this kind of like, hey,

835
01:00:45,119 --> 01:00:49,800
we're all you know, like if
you're a striking writer and you are

836
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,800
kind of flirting with another striking writer, you both know you're not going to

837
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:57,480
go someplace expensive for the date,
right because you're both claiming to be broke,

838
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,480
so you're already kind of in the
same boat, and it's the only

839
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,719
time you get together. The problem
with that article, which I read,

840
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:09,960
was the I mean, I would
never recommend to any screenwriter, or probably

841
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:15,960
any professional writer of any kind,
that they become involved romantically with any other

842
01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:19,599
writer or any other screenwriter. It's
best to not only have one in the

843
01:01:19,599 --> 01:01:22,920
family at any given time, two
is dangerous. Oh so the real opportunity

844
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:28,679
here is for some cameras to show
up and start a reality series of meeting

845
01:01:28,679 --> 01:01:32,480
on the pivot line they already have. Yeah, yeah, I mean the

846
01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:37,119
problem with it, the problem in
general, is that everything is the business

847
01:01:37,159 --> 01:01:40,400
has changed so radically like everything else, but um, and that you there's

848
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:46,440
a there's a whole basket of things
that you can ask for that address the

849
01:01:46,519 --> 01:01:51,440
changes in the business and how it
will be going forward, But there's also

850
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,119
a whole basket of things that you're
asking for that even if you've got everything

851
01:01:53,159 --> 01:01:57,519
you wanted, are still not going
to solve those problems. And that is

852
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:00,800
that is ultimately what the Writers Guild
is facing, which will a lot of

853
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:05,320
a lot of trade unions are faced
in the past thirty four years, Like

854
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,760
even if you had everything, the
world has changed a lot, and there's

855
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:12,760
no uh, you know, you're
not You're You'll get everything you want on

856
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,559
your list, but you're not gonna
get what you really need, which is

857
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:17,119
a time machine. And I think
a lot of these a lot of a

858
01:02:17,159 --> 01:02:23,119
lot of these demands come unto that
heading. AI what's agoing to do to

859
01:02:23,199 --> 01:02:30,599
writers? I don't it would be
embarrassed as a writer to say they're going

860
01:02:30,639 --> 01:02:34,119
to try to replace me with a
robot, like really, you're that bad,

861
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,320
But they will. I don't think
some executive some of us is already

862
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:43,239
saying we don't need these guys.
The computers can do this. Here.

863
01:02:43,599 --> 01:02:47,039
I think if you're writing daytime drama
right where you're just generating material every day,

864
01:02:47,079 --> 01:02:50,480
and it's a lot of material and
a lot of it is just people

865
01:02:50,599 --> 01:02:53,719
announcing things, right, then maybe
you could get a little help from AI.

866
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:55,599
I don't know how. I don't. I don't think AI's written a

867
01:02:55,679 --> 01:02:59,239
joke yet. Maybe look, AI
may be able to write a joke,

868
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,880
and if so, hey more power
to you. But hey, I could

869
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:07,719
already handle certain scenes in days of
our lives. Yeah, probably, or

870
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,400
at least get you to the outlining
phase that you need. I mean,

871
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,679
if, um, here, here's
how I really think of it. These

872
01:03:13,679 --> 01:03:20,440
are just tools, right and if
you're if you're not good, the tool

873
01:03:20,639 --> 01:03:24,320
is going to kill you. And
if you're good, the tool will make

874
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:29,039
you better. And if you're really
good, the tool will give you superpowers.

875
01:03:29,639 --> 01:03:31,039
That's kind of how what I think
about it. Maybe I'm a polyenn

876
01:03:31,079 --> 01:03:36,760
optimist, but I genuinely think that
that the that I in the right hand.

877
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,840
If you have talent already, the
tool will only make it better.

878
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:45,760
Robotic surgery in the hands of a
bad surgeon is not great. Robotic surgery

879
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:52,119
in the hands of a brilliant surgeon
is going to be life saving. Oh

880
01:03:52,159 --> 01:03:55,599
the days I silence you. No, no, no, I'm just I'm

881
01:03:55,599 --> 01:04:00,480
just you. You implicitly compared yourself
to a brilliant surgeon. I again,

882
01:04:00,199 --> 01:04:06,039
no running chat GPT for no.
I just think that that that the tool

883
01:04:06,119 --> 01:04:10,320
can make people. I mean,
I'm I'm I don't think I'll ever have

884
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,440
to worry about it, because I
think it's going to happen well into my

885
01:04:14,519 --> 01:04:17,679
retirement age. But um, but
I would feel nerve. I would feel

886
01:04:17,679 --> 01:04:25,599
embarrassed to march march around demanding that
that the studios cease never replaced me with

887
01:04:25,599 --> 01:04:29,239
a machine. The whole point of
what I do is I can't be so

888
01:04:29,239 --> 01:04:30,840
so I'm sorry. I have to
ask one more because I do find this

889
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:35,159
fascinating and maybe maybe on one podcast
you would we just make you the guests

890
01:04:35,199 --> 01:04:40,280
and we talk about entertainment. Was
so we do know. So computer CGI,

891
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,760
computer graph what is it called?
Computer graphics? Generated images? I

892
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:50,800
think computer generated images transformed the special
effects side of the business and eliminated a

893
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:54,880
lot of jobs. It created some
new jobs, but it put into the

894
01:04:54,920 --> 01:05:00,320
hands of computer programmers. What all
people who used to build models and to

895
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:06,920
transform that piece of entertainment? We
have that question, will AI transform some

896
01:05:08,079 --> 01:05:13,719
piece of entertainment? Second question,
why shouldn't the writers get everything they want?

897
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:16,000
The big change in Hollywood in the
last quarter of a century has been

898
01:05:16,039 --> 01:05:21,639
the arrival of more money, lots
more money. It's not just the seven

899
01:05:21,679 --> 01:05:28,480
major studios anymore, and now it's
Netflix and Apple and Amazon. And why

900
01:05:28,519 --> 01:05:30,840
the heck shouldn't these guys? I
mean, the desire, the need for

901
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,400
content is bigger than it's ever been. This should be a great time to

902
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:39,039
be a writer. Over to you. In many ways it is a great

903
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:41,880
time of writer. Writers baking more
money, and they're more writers employed.

904
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:45,599
There's all sorts of things that are
great about being a writer. And the

905
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:47,960
reason why the right I believe the
writer skills shouldn't get everything it wants is

906
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,320
because some of the things it wants
I think are bad and we'll be add

907
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:55,519
for writers, right, I think. But there's always a balance in Hollywood

908
01:05:55,559 --> 01:06:00,440
between talent and luck, and people
who are successful think they're successful because they're

909
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:03,280
talented, and people who are not
successful, I think those people are successful

910
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:08,719
because they're lucky, and they're both
kind of right. And so what happens

911
01:06:08,719 --> 01:06:12,039
in Hollywood is you're kind of sustained
by this idea that if I just stay

912
01:06:12,119 --> 01:06:14,840
one more year, I'm going to
get my big break. Every actor feels

913
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,840
that way, every writer feels that
way. I'll any small, little little

914
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:23,559
tidbit of success seems to you to
point to the potemic of the future riches

915
01:06:23,559 --> 01:06:27,000
and Oscars and Emmy's and everything.
And the business kind of works on that,

916
01:06:27,079 --> 01:06:30,400
because the business kind of works by
having this big, big garden where

917
01:06:30,519 --> 01:06:33,039
you kind of can live for a
while if your Quentin Tarantino, you work

918
01:06:33,079 --> 01:06:36,320
in a video store for years of
all that stuff, right, And it

919
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,719
kind of keeps you on the hook
because what if you do come up with

920
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:41,719
a great idea. We don't want
you to come up a great idea and

921
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,119
be living back in Bismarck, South
Dakota. Right, I mean not that

922
01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:46,440
that's a bad play, s Court
we had a great center from there,

923
01:06:46,519 --> 01:06:49,719
but we want you to have that
great idea here where I can hear it

924
01:06:49,719 --> 01:06:54,440
and put it on TV or put
it into movies. Oh a quick idea,

925
01:06:54,679 --> 01:06:57,559
maybe, Peter, we ought to
hook up a chat GPT to some

926
01:06:57,639 --> 01:07:01,840
kind of voice box and see if
it could produce for us a ricochete podcast.

927
01:07:02,039 --> 01:07:04,960
Thank you very much. And now
somebody turning them off right now,

928
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:13,079
this one could be so So the
question everyone should be everyone should be focused

929
01:07:13,079 --> 01:07:16,320
on this, which is how do
you create right what is the great secret

930
01:07:16,519 --> 01:07:20,920
to the enormous trillion dollar fortunes coming
out of palle alto coming out of Silicon

931
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:27,199
valid It is not capitalism, really, and it is not the benefits of

932
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,239
the people who are risk capitalists and
then the brilliant of venture capitalists. It

933
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:38,480
is a nonprofit organization organizations Stanford University, cow places like that that support kind

934
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:43,519
of water the garden and create the
opportunities, and the federal government creating DARPA

935
01:07:43,559 --> 01:07:50,159
and DARPA net creating the opportunities for
great um innovation. And that is what

936
01:07:50,199 --> 01:07:56,440
the entertainment business should be trying to
create. What how can we quasi subsidize

937
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:00,039
a little bit this idea factory that
we have and that because that's they don't

938
01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:02,719
think that way, they're going to
step. They're stepping on their own host,

939
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:06,280
which I think is a real problem. And that so whether the writers

940
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:10,519
are correct and everything they want or
not, I think it is time for

941
01:08:10,559 --> 01:08:15,320
there to be a rethinking of of
the way show business conducted. I mean,

942
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:17,399
look, all these guys got big
into the streaming business thinking there's the

943
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:21,640
solution without once stopping to think about
how this is how this was potentially the

944
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:25,000
dumbest thing they could ever do,
which is what they did, and they

945
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,399
did so because they were they were
absolutely encouraged to do that by Wall Street

946
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:30,760
saying well, what is your streaming
plan? Because you look at Netflix,

947
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,720
what is your streaming plan? And
what they should have said was, let's

948
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:39,359
let Netflix just spend all the money
and die, right and just see what

949
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:43,800
happens. Right. Netflix is putin
where are the Ukraine, Let's let's let's

950
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:45,439
see how smart they really are and
if they run out of money, which

951
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:50,000
they have, right, So all
sorts of like complicated things here. Um.

952
01:08:50,199 --> 01:08:57,840
The problem is that it ultimately comes
down to some perception of talent and

953
01:08:58,039 --> 01:09:02,239
some kind of luck and you can
pick it all day and not get any

954
01:09:02,359 --> 01:09:05,800
closer to those two things. So
uh. And in terms of chat,

955
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:11,119
GPT and AI, the people who
really should be worried about it are journalists

956
01:09:12,039 --> 01:09:15,319
nonfiction writers. Those are the people
who need to be thinking, because those

957
01:09:15,319 --> 01:09:20,960
people can be replaced, most of
them can be replaced by a by an

958
01:09:21,079 --> 01:09:26,560
unbiased machine if they ever come up
with one, right right, right right,

959
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,279
mister Peabody's way back machine. Now, now what we need is the

960
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:36,720
unbiased machine exactly right, exactly right, which they which we would not need.

961
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:44,159
By the way, if we believe
that our journalism was unbiased, right,

962
01:09:45,039 --> 01:09:48,960
the journalism created the opportunity. Now, speaking of opportunity, if you've

963
01:09:49,039 --> 01:09:53,880
enjoyed this as comes to you from
Ricochet and the Ricochet Network of podcasts,

964
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,199
please check us out richet dot com. We'd love you for to join Ricochet.

965
01:09:57,239 --> 01:09:59,479
But even if you just think I'm
never going to join Ricochet, come

966
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:01,960
to the tom anyway and see all
the podcasts that we offer and subscribe,

967
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,199
and if you do join, which
we hope you do, you'll get to

968
01:10:05,279 --> 01:10:09,760
join us at the meetups. The
meetups are where members get together. They're

969
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:13,800
fun and more than that, it's
like kind of your duty as a American

970
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:16,680
citizen to meet up with the other
like minded, smart, funny, interesting

971
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,680
American citizens. And by the way, if you ever want to make change

972
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:21,920
in this country, you got to
meet face to face. And this week

973
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:26,840
we got a bunch of meeting meetup
inquiries. Western Chauvinist has inquired about members

974
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,279
in the UK. She's gonna be
around London Cornwall at the end of the

975
01:10:30,319 --> 01:10:32,680
month, So get online and if
you're for the UK or you're around there,

976
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:34,960
you're gonna be there. Let us
know, let her know. Tory

977
01:10:35,039 --> 01:10:39,560
War Writer is back and hoping to
meet members in and around Columbus, Ohio

978
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:43,680
in late June. Randy has another
meetup set up. He did the New

979
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:45,720
Orleans meet up is Fantastics. Another
one set up for Winston Salem mid July.

980
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,840
Matt Baser's asking for OURSPPS for the
annual German Fest meetup in Milwaukee.

981
01:10:50,119 --> 01:10:55,279
That's the last weekend in July,
so we'd love to see one of these

982
01:10:55,319 --> 01:10:58,319
joint Mika Shay come and if you
if you're like, well, I'm not

983
01:10:58,359 --> 01:11:02,600
around the summer, well join Ricochet
put up a post how about somewhere closer

984
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,039
to you at a time you can
make it. Ricochet members will show up.

985
01:11:06,119 --> 01:11:12,439
That's what they do. Um,
this has been a great I mean

986
01:11:13,159 --> 01:11:15,960
we were sort of run out of
time, so I'll just say thanks guys,

987
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,399
thanks for joining us. Podcasts brought
to you by crowd Health. Support

988
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:24,920
them by supporting us, or support
them for supporting us and join Ricochet.

989
01:11:25,199 --> 01:11:27,760
Take a minute if you have a
chance to leave a five star review and

990
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,880
Apple podcast. Your review allows me
listeners to discover us. That's how the

991
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,960
algorithm works, helps keep this show
and other shows going. Um, Steve,

992
01:11:34,039 --> 01:11:36,880
anything you want to say, you
sat in you you did a great

993
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:41,840
job. Enough damage already. He
just said you got to host, so

994
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,760
I didn't have to try to do
those Schrodegger's cat like sponsor segues that James

995
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:53,399
does. Oh man, they're the
hardest. Yes, I purposely um mess

996
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:57,199
them up because I figure it's better
for me to do a D minus version

997
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:00,560
than a B minus version. You
know what I mean? Oh yeah,

998
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:03,399
that's true, that's true, Steve. Steve, thank you though you were

999
01:12:03,399 --> 01:12:11,560
wonderful until you were suddenly terrible job. It's true about life. It's true

1000
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:14,680
about life. Hey, fellas,
thanks for being here. See you soon.

1001
01:12:15,279 --> 01:12:21,600
Next week, Ricochet joined the conversation