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What is krack alacking hardware knocks the listeners? I am dan fa Valley
coming out you once again without my co host Andrew D. Bally. We
do have our top ten Charlotte Hornet's player rankings for the past decade to go
through with MBA Maths and Bleacher Reports. Adam frommel we'll speak with him in
a minute. Just want to remind you, implore you, beg plead with
you to continue rating, reviewing, and subscribing to us on iTunes. You
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So head over there and enter promo code blue Wire. All one word before
we do start talking with Adam, however, I did want to go through
a news update since it's been a while since we've talked about anything that's semi
current event related. As we go through this historical project, let's start with
the coronavirus updates. Of course, the NBA players who have been diagnosed with
it apparently have recovered. We're talking about Christian Wood, Marcus Smart, both
Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert of the Utah Jazz. I believe we don't know
the names of the two Lakers players that were that tested positive, but they
have since recovered. I do not believe that there's been an update on the
NETS players, though I could be mistaken. We know that Kevin Durant was
one of them and that there were three others, so that's something to consider
there. Along those same lines, Brian Wynhorst of ESPN dot com reported that
the Chinese government issued in order to delay the restart of the Chinese Basketball Association
in addition to other group sporting events. This is of course a blow to
anyone hoping to see sports again this year. This season for the NBA specifically,
everyone sort of looking to China, who is dealing with a little bit
of a second way outbreak of coronavirus there. It seems they're sort of looking
to them to be this figure of the future, to see what we might
be in store for us. Most people seem to be pessimistic about whether they'll
be an NBA season this year to be finished. The regular season kind of
feels like it's almost out of the question. Maybe we can get some type
of playoffs and abbreviated postseason or something, but most people, the general feeling
is that this year is not just that risk that it's pretty much done.
I do have. That's sort of where I lean, It's where I've always
lented, But I tend to be inherently pessimistic when it comes to these things.
So there is still an element of waiting and seeing here, because we
know the league is going to draw out their final decisions as long as possible,
if they have to have the NBA Finals in October or even November,
depending on what's going on with the NFL regular season. I could see a
scenario in which they're they're doing that. Of course, that brings up the
question of how does that impact the off season. Maybe you could still hold
the draft virtually when you would have, but then how do you resume a
season where they're technically rookies on your team, whether they're not a part of
your roster at that point. There's, of course the free agency process to
consider. Again, we have to wait and see here things certainly you don't
feel great about it. Also, on a similar topic, we saw that
ESPN and ESPN two broadcasted the NBA two K Tournament, which was light on
trash talk. I'll say from from the moments I watched of it during Night
number one. Anyway, I'm recording this on a Sunday, which will be
the second night of that tournament. I picked Michael Porter Junior to win it
all. So if you're listening to this after he beat or lost to Devin
Booker, I'm either going to be bragging and doing a victory lap or I'm
going to be very wrong. But according to ESPN's Issue Warznarowski, the NBA
and ESPN are working on televising a horse competition that will involve several high profile
players. This of course cannot be done on location with the players together,
and so you're limiting this to players with home or at least a set up
where they have I guess a viable basketball hoops set up. If it's strictly
players with home gyms, I'm talking about the Lebron James Is. This idea
is classist and I will not stand for it, unless, of course,
Frankie Lakina has a home gym and has asked to partake, in which case
this is the best idea ever. On an actual serious note, people were
making fun of this on Twitter, and I can see why others want classic
games to be shown, maybe with players sort of narrating their their own performances
from years past analyzing what they did. We're talking current players here or even
you know, former players. Stuff like that can be interesting. The NBA
and ESPN broadcast partners, they're trying to do something and I can at least
appreciate that, And so I think, let people enjoy this if they want
to see it, because it does seem like it's going to happen. Make
the jokes, and that's where people, I feel like, have this misperception
that Twitter is for nuance. It can be when you're doing a thread,
but you know, nuance to me is for podcasts, for articles. They're
you know, the persona you have on Twitter. Yes, there's a risk
of people not taking you seriously. I myself have heard it a bunch of
times that people are surprised at how nice I am when they talk to me
because of I guess the air that I give off on Twitter with my terrible,
terrible jokes, and that's you know what, That's fine Twitter. If
you're going to do a thread, it can be for nuance, but the
jokes on Twitter or just that they're jokes. If there are people that really
want to enjoy this, I don't think that we should actually be demeaning them
or even the NBA for attempting to try something. There are a lot more
important things that we can harp on that the league has gotten wrong. Moving
on from this, though, the Chicago Bulls, it appears the gar Packs
era in Chicago is kind of sort of maybe over a little bit. We
don't we don't really know according to who the Bulls and this is a direct
quote now have embarked on a formal search process to hire a new top executive
with full authority on basketball decisions. We already know that gar Foreman was put
in sort of a reduced role, and it seems like John Paxson, the
vice president of basketball operations, is going to follow suit. Among the candidates
the Bulls are expected to interview, one of them is not Pacers GM Chad
Buchanan. He has removed his name from consideration. That's a big win for
the Pacers. Just anyone saying that they'd rather be with the Indiana than a
more of a i'll call it a hallmark flagship franchise than Chicago. I think
it says a lot about what Indiana has built there. Maybe also Buchanan just
doesn't want to uproot his life which is also perfectly fair. Other names that
have been mentioned the Raptors GM Bobby Webster and Nuggets general manager our tourists carniche
Fast. I tried. I tried to look this up phonetically beforehead it is
carniche Vas. So those are the names that we have so far. The
interviews are expected to begin next week, per Woge. What I will say
is that I remain skeptical of any organization that is making basketball operations overhauls but
then keeping many of the key figures from the current regime within the organization.
Point to the Knicks with Steve Mills still being employed by them, and so
this is an excited time or time to be excited for Bulls fans, but
you should also probably still be a little bit nervous. Jerry Ryan's ORF is
still there, and again both Garfeman and John Paxson could still remain employed by
the organization. You have to imagine at least one of them will continue to
have the ear of people in charge and perhaps carry real weight, and that's
always a danger given what they've done. The final news item will go over
is actually another rumor. According to CMB Sports Businesses Jabari Young Damar de Rosen
is not happy in San Antonio, and he's sort of intimated that maybe Damar
would decline his player option ahead of free agency this year and enter the open
market. I remain skeptical that this will actually happen. Damar has a twenty
seven point seven million dollar player option. I'm not trying to criticize the type
of player he is. He's an awkward fit on a lot of teams,
but he is still really good for what he can do as both a scorer
and a playmaker out of the pick and roll. It's just that there has
to be a very specific set of players around him. It's not I wouldn't
say it's the same as what Houston has done with Russell Westbrooks arounding him with
four shooters, but it's the same idea because their styles are different. But
I think that's where he needs to be. The Spurs certainly just don't have
that optionality. Even having LaMarcus Aldrich take more threes that that helps, but
it can only do so much when you also have Derek White Jejantha Murray there.
You're not really stockpiled with shooters. When you're looking at their roster and
what they have over the longer term. Now. If Demard Rozen hits free
agency, however, though, I struggle to find a team, and again
this isn't to necessarily criticize him, but I struggle to find a team that
would offer him more than the mid level exception, which is projected to come
in around right now with the starting salary of nine point eight ish million dollars,
and that will come down if the salary cap projections come down. Because
of the hiatus that the NBA is on right now, whatever you want to
call it, the suspension of play, there aren't a ton of teams with
cap space. Of the ones that do, you're looking at Charlotte, Troy,
New York, Atlanta, Miami. I don't think Miami would go after
him. That's been sort of a popular or semi popular, offbeat scenario.
Where could Damar work in Miami? I don't think that makes any sense.
Could you count on not so much Atlanta just because they have Trey Young,
I'll wet already, and they've invested in a lot of wings who can be
secondary ball handlers. But Charlotte, Detroit or New York, if one of
them gets desperate for a name in free agency maybe, and so you know,
if they're gonna come in with three years, sixty million or something around
there, it would make sense for him to opt out. There are a
couple of wild cards on the market. Phoenix can have cap space if it
does a few things did over Dallas, depending on what happens with Tim Hardaway
Junior's player option. He's not a fit on either of those squads, and
so if he's looking at mid level exception money, it would take him three
years at that level to recoup the player option he'd lose. I just don't
see it happening. Maybe he can opt out and then work out assign and
trade with the Spurs to go to another team. I still just fail to
see where the obvious fit is, and so my expectation would be that he
opts in and then maybe the Spurs look to move him later. Perhaps they
can send him to Orlando. That was a team that was rumored to be
interested in him at the trade deadline. I don't know that they'd be interested
in him for sign and trade money, just because they have some really wonky
long term books there. But he's certainly someone to monitor, a big name,
a quality offensive player. Again, though, just tough to fit in
with certain team dynamics that it seems like it takes a very specific supporting cast
for him to be at his peak. That's what we've really seen in San
Antonio. They don't have the talent around him to maximize him, and there
are a few teams that do. And even if they have the flexibility to
do that, I still don't think he's someone that you build your team around.
And so do you have a better number one option who also fits alongside
the Rosen because he can play a ton off the ball and really spaces the
floor for you. I just don't know where that fit is. You can
get at me on Twitter if you want to suggest an Atlantic spart for de
Rosen and we can talk it out. Aside from Orlando, which they don't
have personnel either, it just seems that they want anyone who can really create
from scratch from the point of attack, other than you know, Vujevich in
the post or what they're getting out of Marquel folks this year. We don't
know what the future is for Evan Fournier, who has a player option.
So if they're bringing all of those guys back, you know, let's say
Evan Fournia doesn't opt out. I don't know how good of a fit de
Rosen is there. Maybe it helps having both him and Fournier, but they
have a ton of of non shooters there already. Moving on, though,
let's get to our decade all decade player rankings for the Charlotte Hornets. We're
gonna be talking with NBA Maths Founder editor in chief Adam Framo. Follow him
on Twitter at Framo zero nine, and as ever, also follow NBA Math
at NBA Underscore Math to participate in these composite rankings that were compiling. There
are a lot of fun and based on the feedback we've been getting, you
seem to enjoy them. So let's get Let's get to it. March is
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experts, Adam, how is it going? It's going pretty well. I'm
a little scared though, just because we thought that the Brooklyn Nets podcast in
this series was going to be rough. This one, this one's gonna be
rougher. I don't know that I'm like fully mentally prepared for this. This
is not This is not a good quarantine mental health activity. Yes, I
agree with you. There were also both ass hats for overplaying how tough Brooklyn
was. When we knew that we had Charlotte right on the horizon. It
would have taken like one cursory glance to realize we could have just bassed at
least in the certainty of Brooklyn's top six. They at least had that Charlotte
no such thing. Hey, hey, Charlotte has a top one. Let's
let's give them some credit here. It wasn't consensus though, we're universal,
whatever you want to call I'm just I'm annoyed by that. But we did
get one. We actually got a little bit of a spoiler here, but
we got two stray first place votes, one of which we deleted. One
went. One went to Michael kid Gilchrist, which we'll talk about later,
and the other one to Chris Paul and also had Tyson Chandler. I can't
remember if it was second or third, but that was clearly a case of
forgetting that the New Orleans Hornets are not the same as the Charlotte's Hornets,
so we deleted that one. Just however, Chris Paul be a worthwhile pick
if it was the same franchise, So we give we give brownie points for
that, unless Tyson Chandler was put over Kemba in that exercise, because I
think he was third. I think he was third if I remember correctly.
But I'm still struggling with Chris Paul over Kemba Walker, just because it was
still only one season of Chris Paul in this time that's before he went to
the Clippers, So it was it was interesting. It's an excuse one a
few fronts, but whatever. So let's get into this we wanted. We're
gonna start with the composite rankings and then break ours down who came in.
We had a three way tie. I believe correct we did. We had
a three way tie from ninth place, which means that instead of only talking
about ten members of the Charlotte Hornets, we have to talk about eleven.
And this is the content you guys are here for. And we're going to
start with Bismack Byambo, who finished eleventh in the fan vote. He did
not appear in Dan's top ten, and I actually had him at eighth.
It makes sense that we get to start with an example of our favorite concept
in this series, which is just pure theirness. Like Bimbo never really developed
into anything special. He was a palatable defender. He still is. He's
a decent rebounder. He offers nothing on offense. I think there are some
examples of like how he spent the least amount of time with the ball in
his hands of any NBA player who plays big minutes. But to his credit,
the Hornets have actually been zero point three points per one hundred possessions better
with him on the court throughout his two ten years in Charlotte. So I'm
giving him credit for theirness here, and I understand why you don't want to.
It's also his comeback roundness. He came back. That's the only thing
that matter. Doesn't matter. There was be a not voluntarily though it was
a trade, it was one of the most or least noteworthy trades ever.
He did have, so right before there was that twenty sixteen cat boone.
He had the good twenty fifteen twenty sixteen where no, he still wasn't doing
a ton on offense, but it was like, oh he can really like
be this this rim roller. And then Orlando gave him four years and sixty
four million. I believe it was and that good for him for getting his
money. I just want to make that clear whenever we criticize a contract,
yeah, get your money. That ended up being one of the worst signings
of that twenty sixteen free agency, which is saying something because twenty six free
agency was bonkers bad in many ways. But I don't have anything to add
there. It's just that he did have I think What really swings it for
him, if you want to put him in here or even put him higher,
is not just his theirness or his comeback aroundness. It's the fact that
he had that really stand out twenty fourteen twenty fifteen campaign. That's oh it
was in Toronto. Excuse me, it was my timelines off here. Who
knows to the raptors, they just develop all these guys. I can't believe
you didn't correct me while I was speaking of a term before. So I'm
happy I didn't put him on my list for this reason. Is I forgot
that he spent that one year in Toronto where it looked like he was going
to be a solid rim roller. Still didn't have the volume, but you
could count on him for all the things he did, plus as a screen
and dive guy. I was just gonna let you roll with it because I
need all of the justification, whether legitimate or not, for having him not
just in my top ten but eighth. That's I'm like flabbergast did that.
I'm like remembering that, and now I think I even I was one of
the people that overrated him, because I believe I did free agency rankings that
year. But neither here nor there. I wonder if we're going to see
that at this offseason with guys like Fred van Vliet, where like Toronto's player
development is just so good, kind of like we've seen with like San Antonio
in some ways, where guys go to San Antonio they in the last decade
they've played really well. Then they go elsewhere and they have trouble justifying the
contracts just because this system isn't as good. I mean, does Demard Rosen
count and what's happened to maybe maybe not so much recently. He would be
interesting, maybe like a Chris Bouche too is going to be there. It's
tough because not a lot of their develop I mean, Ronde Hollis Jefferson is
a free agent as well, and he's played good this year. But Fred
VanVleet would be a perfect case study in that for sure. Who do we
got next? Also Tied at ninth, we have Gerald Wallace, who was
tenth on the fan vote. He did not appear in my top ten,
he was ninth in yours. I didn't have him there just because even though
I think you can make a convincing argument that he's the second best player in
the franchise's history, but his All Star season and most of his time that
was spend at a higher level came before our decade. He only spent forty
eight relevant games before he ended up in Portland midway through the twenty ten eleventh
season. So it was just it was hard with only a forty eight game
sample size for me to put him in my top ten. Even though I
will definitely say that I gave him some consideration, I definitely cheated on some
level, and I admitted to this before we started recording that you know what,
he made twenty ten all defense, not the season uses the cut off,
but still in the same decade. And so if I'm going to use
projection for a guy like Trey Young for what he possibly could have done,
not just for the rest of this year, but at the you know,
the first half of next season, That's part of how I justified it.
The other thing was just a solid guy. And do you remember when he
was traded to the Blazers, they actually got a pretty good haul for him,
not that they ended up keeping, said Hall, but the then Bobcats
traded to the Blazers Gerald Wallace for Dante Cunningham, John Marks, Joe uh
Chris billa Cash, a two thousand and eleven first round pick that became Tobias
Harris, and a two thousand and fourteen first round pick that became Chabazz Napier.
That's a lot of value for forget about the players that were drafted.
Tobias Harris is is really good. That's a good haul for for Gerald Wallace
and he wasn't you know, his he was never known as an offensive player,
but his offense wasn't at the same level it was the year before when
they actually flipped him in two ten, two thousand and eleven, and so
that can factor into leaving him off as well, just because he only it
wasn't even that he spent just twenty ten, twenty eleven there, it was.
It was for only forty eight games, but I again I cheated.
But then also looking at what he got them in that hall, you know,
they capitalized on on his value. So I'm just gonna I'm gonna absolutely
roll with it. And it's just it is wild again not this decade,
but it's just wild to remember that there was a season where he averaged over
nineteen points per game. That's just not a version of Gerald Wallace, and
I think a lot of people remember. I wish we did because he was
so much fun one a fantastic defender too. I just don't think he was
ever really known for his offense, but he was a guy I saw transition
offense, just the leakouts and the transition threat. Why don't you say that
those takes for Gerald Henderson, who I know that you're gonna vistrate when he
appears. Oh we have more of that, Yeah, don't worry. I'm
also just impressed that we got a Vanilla Gorilla shout out on this podcast already.
Nolla Gorilla. I like it. I don't think I ever heard that
nickname. Oh really, I thought that was a pretty common one. Is
that your favorite NBA nickname? My favorite NBA name? No, definitely not.
I think my favorite NBA nickname is the Dancing Bear for Yabriselli. I'm
standing by that one. Not in the NBA anymore, but I love the
Dancing Bear, just throwing. If anyone cares, I'm gonna have to think
on that and get back to you because it's an important question and I don't
want to that might be a good pod. I don't want to devalue it.
It would be it would be who do we have to finish out our
three way tie? Finishing out our three way tie. We have a guy
who was atrocious during his rookie season, was fantastic at the start of this
currently spended season, and then kind of forgot how to shoot midway through it.
And that is DeVante Graham, who was ninth place from the fans.
He barely missed it on mine and he was in tenth on yours. Yeah,
look, his rookie season was bad, but I have to wait what
he did at the beginning of this year where he was hitting a ton of
those off the dribble threes. And because you have the flexibility with the franchise
like this to me where you can go with small samples, I still actually
believe what he does is really important because if you look at Terry Rosier's shooting
splits when DeVante graham is off the floor, they are fucking awful, like
they are bad, and so he has that impact on a lot of the
other players. I thought PJ. Washington was one, and I still watching
the Hornets. I will die on that hill. The stats don't really back
it up. I do think it's a case of sample size bias there,
but I still think the threat of what he's supposed to do. Yes,
he sucks it finishing around the rim. You're not going to have a good
defense if he and Terry Rozier your backcourt, but he just alleviates a lot
of the burden on everybody. Yeah, it's pretty good playmaker, particularly when
you consider what he was last season and the start that he had to this
year, though it lasted about a quarter of the season, When you look
at the other options you had, and when you also consider the fact that
he was in the running not just for most Improved Player but All Star buzz
because it's the Eastern Conference, that was enough to sneak him in my top
ten. I thought about some other players here and we'll talk about them at
the end of this podcast, but I'm comfortable putting DeVante Graham in the Hornet's
his top ten. I think you should be. I had no expectations for
him coming into this year, but it took all of like two games to
totally buy in. I think what we saw during the first part of this
season was legitimate and is what we're going to see from him going forward.
Because you just it takes five minutes to watch him run pick and rolls and
realize, like what a great feel he has for the game, Like his
passing is always precise, it's always under control, and yeah, his shooting
splits are low, but he's also playing on a team pretty devoid of other
offensive options, and he's asked to initiate so much while drawing the bulk of
the defensive attention. Like, I'm still totally bought in on him, and
I would be shocked if he isn't on my top ten Hornets of the twenty
twenties once we eventually get to that, I just I value theirness too much
and he hasn't been there. What probably helps if you're at least allowing the
small window of projection that we would have assuming there's basketball again in twenty twenty,
which I guarantee. Obviously, he's under contract for next year, so
you can almost wait that into it. I understand what you're saying, though,
but it goes It goes both ways, and if this was a different
franchise, there obviously might be some issues with viewing it that way. But
because as we've seen with the names that with the names, we've already talked
about. You do have that optionality here, and he certainly deserves it.
What contract would you give Devonte Graham right now? If everyone is a free
agent. I'm like too embedded in what the actual cap scenarios is, so
I'm looking at like I wouldn't really give him more than the non tax players
mid level because it's like, go get more than that. I guess there
are some bad teams that will have money that might consider it, but with
a drop off in his efficiency. If you went, like if you gave
him the Kemba Walker Special four years and forty eight four eight, yeah,
I would probably feel not fully comfortable with that, but comfortable enough just because
he's still even if he's never efficient, even if he never finishes around the
rim, at at least, defenses still seem to care about the threat of
his off the dribble. Three That's the exact number I had in my head.
But I wanted to make that fourth year one of the rarely used team
options just because I don't think it's proven enough for me to feel confident giving
a four year deal. But I want to still because I do believe it.
Right, if you can just be a primary ball handler just in a
vacuum. You know, it doesn't have to be the cleanest. You wanted
to be the most efficient, but there's value in that itself. So I'm
right there with you. Yeah, we are onto number eight. This makes
it correct. Correct. So at number eight we have Gerald Henderson, who
was seventh on the vote. He was ninth on mine, and he was
seventh on yours. Gerald Henderson one of the one of the shooting guards who
who forgets that shooting is one of the words of his position. Well from
the outside at least, right, he had no problems getting those transition buckets,
right, I mean, and that's pretty much all he did. Because
it's it's kind of astounding that a shooting guard who has played since from two
thousand and nine through twenty seventeen never took more than two point four three's per
game, which was in his final season, and never shot better than thirty
five point three percent from three, which was also his final season, and
did not happen in Charlotte. He was a transition threat, and I think
that's it. He never developed into a playmaker. He didn't really do anything
off the dribble. I don't have anything more to add on his positives,
I feel like Pete Jerrold Henderson did a little bit off the dribble, maybe
a little bit, and I I liked watching him because I enjoyed the transition
game and the slashers who who enjoy crashing into the into the paint while it's
crowded and still making things happen. But like I, yeah, I'm struggling.
I'm struggling for more positives here. Speaking of someone who got there is
in twenty sixteen free agency when he signed with the Sixers world was it two
years and fifteen million at that point or something? That was just good?
That was good money for him at the time, because I don't know who
looked at You're exactly right, who looked at the year that he had in
Portland and was like, I know the Sixers, it was kind of their
timeline was at least a little bit different than but that was that was certainly
a contract. Who do we have at number seven? Because I have nothing
to add to your gerald Henderson takes just and his theirness matters by the way,
too. He was for sure, I think he was He was very
there. Fourth in minutes for the Hornets and six games played. Yeah,
so that certainly matters as well. Shout out to Gerald Henderson. We don't
mean to dump all over you. Adam does, but I don't. I
do a little bit. You do a lot of bit. It was out
of it. Yeah maybe, yeah, maybe, but at least we got
through a player like relatively relatively quickly before we were on this tangent. Yeah,
yeah, that's true. Who do we have at number seven? At
number seven, we have a guy who sits two spots lower on the Game's
played rankings, and that is Jeremy Lamb. The fans had Jeremy Lamb at
number eight. I had him up at number six. You had him up
at number five. I'm intrigued by by why you had him so high,
and I'm guessing that it's just his final season and the growth that he showed
throughout his time in Charlotte which allowed him to get the deal that he did
from the Indiana Pacers, where he's continued to be a pretty pretty solid offensive
presence. It wasn't just his final season for me. There was his his
second season there. You know, he was been a middring savant basically his
entire time in Charlotte. But certainly those last two seasons. And I know
that's not the shot that people want to hear about, but when you're not
when they're not assisted mid range jumpers, they still have some value because you're
creating your own looks there. And so he just shot absurd percentages, you
know, in those in between areas while he was with the Hornets, at
least during those latter two seasons. And then certainly you have you factor in
that jump in his third year before or excusing me, fourth year. I
forgot. He spent four years there right before free agency. Was their second
best player last year, behind Kima Walker. And there's just really no argument
to the contrary to have that and just someone who, yes, he kind
of wished he would shoot better than thirty three thirty four percent from three.
He did do that in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, hit thirty seven percent of
his triples, but just to have someone who can get to his spots make
some looks, I don't think. I don't know who's how I would compare
him to someone on defense. I don't view him as like this huge liability
and maybe I'm just colored by the time he spent with the pacers this season
because they seem to make any wing just into a solid defender. So perhaps
that's a little bit too but there are worse defenders when you're looking at twos
and threes. But specifically what he did on offense, I think it was
underrated. And his finishing at the rim it dropped off in his final season
in Charlotte, but it was mostly consistent. You could count on him to
be in like those high to mid sixties around the rim, which is good,
and looking at the players they've had over this decade, I'm just surprised
he finished this low. He spent four seasons there, and two of them
I would say we're clearly above average campaigns. Yeah, he's definitely In terms
of our rankings are composite rankings, he's very much in a three person tier
with the next two people who are tied at fifth. It was very there
was very little that distinguished those three players from each other. So I think
you can make like you had him in fifth, and I think there's a
very reasonable argument for that, just given who the other two are, which
we can move on to if you want. Oh I would like to,
let's do it. So tied for number five, tied for number fifth,
tied for number five, either one, whichever you English is less important these
days. While I can confirm we should be yes, maybe I still yeah,
we need to do an intoxicated podcast at some point. I'm going to
jot that down on the ideal list. Okay, that'll be the nickname Pause.
I'm totally down for that if I'm invited for that. Oh you'll be
if we can make that out of you, and that'll be I have not
drank since October twenty and eighteen, so that would be my first first civil
alcohol in that time. Yeah, that's not going to go well for you
then, no, I wouldn't, but maybe it would make for good content.
Yeah, good anything for the content. So anyway, tied tied for
fifth. We have we have Michael kid Gilchrist, who was a sixth place
from the fans. He was fourth for me, and he was down at
eight for for you. I didn't talk about him when you specifically for this
reason, when you mentioned that I had him at number eight before. How
is he this high? There's not even like I guess there's the vereness of
course that we talk about. I love that this has become a thing and
so he spends you know, seven and a half seasons there, So where's
it eight and a half he's been at First of all, he's been the
league forever, so seven and a half. So, but what were like
his really good years? He had twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen, those two
seasons where he wasn't like a complete liability on offense, and it sort of
looked like he was could be used as a small ball big at the start
of James Rago's first season in Charlotte, but that never really panned out.
Wasn't really part of the rotation this year when he was healthy. So I
am a little shocked that he was this high. I no, he's a
good at his peak, was a quality defender, but he was such a
non factor on it. I think he was better than quality during at his
peak on defense. Like the switchability and the physicality I think did make him
a significantly above average defender. But it is the theirness that that pushes him
up so high. I mean second in games played, I think he's fourth
and minutes played, And we can't forget that during that twenty fifteen sixteen season
he did develop into a reliable floor spacer. I mean, how many people
remember that he shot forty two point nine percent from three that season? Oh
wait, it was it was it was on seven shots. Look, so
his defense was above average, But what I really always felt like he couldn't
do was actually defend the bigger guys, like these bigger wings, and so
he was locked down if you could put him on like smaller weaker players.
And Hornets fans can correct me because they will have watched way more Charlotte Hornets
basketball over the past seven and a half years than I have. But I
just never got that vibe from him, And so I don't want to say
I thought he was overrated on defense, because like you said, mkg in,
do we say in his prime? That almost seems mean he's not even
did seven. We couldn't say that, okay, because he's always he had
really good hands, though. I think that's the biggest thing. Like when
you did put him on on bigger players, like it was dangerous for them
to put the ball on the floor, it was it was harder for them
to get into their post moves. Like maybe he could still get overpowered or
scored on down low, but I think he made it tougher and was just
more disruptive than you would see from a lot of guys his size. Maybe
I'm just penalizing him too much because he's not Anthony Davis and that's the player
they missed. Oh. I thought he was going to be so good coming
out of Kentucky too. That's one of my biggest draft missfires. I was
totally convinced that he should be the number two pick, that he was going
to be a star just watching him at Kentucky, like the defensive dominance and
the transition dominance. I don't it's been a while since we've seen a collegiate
prospect who is that good finishing in transition. Yeah, there was a point
in his career it felt like it dropped off where he was a threat on
the break. And well, perhaps that helps, and maybe I had him
too low. It's just I really only remember the one season. Was it
his third year? I should be looking at this. I think it was
his third season. I remember he was going on offense. And then of
course you mentioned the season where he shot forty two point nine percent and seven
to ten three seven. He only played seven games that year too, That's
where his career high points for the game come from telve point seven. And
that's that's kind of the season where we thought he was going to be putting
it together a little bit too. We saw some of the shooting improvements and
and shout out to to MKG for having some of the most horrific jump shooting
form in NBA history. Like, I did he learn how to play basketball
before ever watching anyone play basketball? Yeah? I don't, And it just
it. I actually have not seen him. He barely played this year,
so I haven't seen him a bunch either. I don't understand, like how
your elbow ends up like above your head and out to the side when you're
shooting a jumper, like your dominant elbow. I just I never understood,
like how it's like Jim Furick, except it didn't work. It was like,
I don't even it was like kind of if Kevin Martin was drunk while
he was shooting, like a little bit no, because you wanted the release
point was higher than than Kevin Martin's. That's a bad that's a bad example.
But if you look at it too, he like actually makes with his
elbows like these two distinct ells when he's going up for it. Yeah,
it defies explanation, but this is all coming from a place of love,
because I think we both liked MKG just for the energy. Speaking of nicknames,
when you talk about simplicity and the acronyms that work, MKG I've always
liked. It's a solid one. Yeah, that might have been the nicest
thing I said about him. Super good defender though, and look if you
so while you were talking, I did google MKG jump Shop for him,
just to look at it again. He's given us some good pictures. There
are some pretty good shooting, but you would never know that he was shooting
right. No, no, well, I don't even know what you could
mistake if or unfortunately, so from from one player that we were not kind
to to another who I'm sure we're going to have nothing but good things to
say about. Also tied for fifth, we have Nicholas Patoun, who was
fifth from the fans, who was seventh from me, who was sixth from
you, also a member of this three person some tier. What a disappointment
right like he was in Portland. He was this versatile, do everything,
weighing like a very modern player who managed to contribute in just about every area.
And I guess. He still managed to contribute in just about every area
in Charlotte. It's just they weren't good contributions. His first season there was
really good. It's first like two seasons there, but then the drop off
came quickly. Yeah, and his second season was actually probably better than his
first two individually. Just he apologized for it too earlier this year. I
don't know if you saw that that he basically admitted he didn't live up to
his contract, and I kind of respect that too. I also respect that
he didn't become like a problem publicly or behind the scenes while he wasn't playing.
He very much understood the position or the direction that the Hornets were going,
And I do like that about him. Is it weird? Look,
here's what I like about him. Just if you had to pick an NBA
player during let's if we went back a couple of years, it was most
likely to log the five by five stat line. He would have been right
on that list. Who else would have been on there? Draymond Green maybe
twenty sixteen, Draymond Green, Oh, definitely Draymond Green. People get mad
because I pronounced his name like that. I don't know why I do it.
Either. I guess you could always put Lebron in that, but but
Touma was always sort of right up there. And is it weird that I
feel like he could still I want him. I want him to get bought
out from Charlotte or something, because he's not declining his player option twenty seven
point one million dollars for anyone who wants to rehash that five year contract.
They gave him five year, one hundred twenty million, And I'll admit that
that was part of the reason I dropped him a little bit down in my
rankings. I had him ahead of Jeremy Lamb at first, but ultimately dropped
him down because when you signed that owners of a contract, it's it's harder
to build a quality team around around him. And like it's not his fault
for accepting the money, for them thinking he was worth the money, but
like, ultimately, like if we're looking at the greatest Charlotte or it's of
the decade, that that matters to me. No, I'm one hundred percent
with you there, And the fact that he kind of it's been like two
seasons where I would say three where yeah, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen just
massively disappointing. But then last year, still getting playing time over thirty minutes
a game, appeared in seventy five games, just wouldn't shoot. He had
there was a point where he had he was averaging fewer shots per thirty six
minutes than Bismack Biyombo. And that's just like the ultimate low point. So
these past three seasons have just been been wildly disappointing on his right. Like
I think if you if after his second season in Charlotte, you told us
that he was going to average like ten five and five's, that seems realistic,
but like three point six four point five and three in twenty two games
this year, fifth year of that contract really kills him. And it's look,
that was the market in because because that was the summer of twenty sixteen,
it was it was another one of those the market would have given him
a four year max somewhere else. But the fifth yet really, I mean,
it kills Charlotte. It killed Charlotte's flexibility. So there's there's that,
but you're you're actually right. And then again just the level of disappointment this
year not so much because you sort of expected this to happen, but certainly
the past two seasons where it's like, okay, there's no after twenty seventeen,
twenty eighteen, Nicholas Petun can't possibly get any worse. And then I
did. Do you think do you think if I if I talk about our
fourth place guy for a little bit here, do you think you can find
where we one of us had him in free agency rankings for twenty sixteen?
Uh, Nicholas Beatum, Yes I can. Yeah, So let's do that.
So while Dan is looking that up, I will reveal that we had
Al Jefferson at fourth in the composite rankings, and it's really the beginning of
a new tier that stopped short of number one. No, I think the
next three players are all grouped together pretty closely. They're they're definitely not separated
by much. In our composite rankings. Al Jefferson was actually second place for
the fans, He was fifth place for me, he was fourth place for
Dan. And I think that all of those are like fairly reasonable reasonable spots
to have him. He only spent three years in Charlotte, didn't make any
All Star teams or anything, but his first season especially like he was very
very good, still playing that that old school style, operating from the left
block almost exclusively. But he averaged twenty one point eight points and ten point
eight rebounds while shooting fifty point nine percent during his first season in Charlotte,
And given what we've seen from the players we've already talked about, like that
one season alone, had he left to go elsewhere, would probably have been
enough to get him in the top ten. And then combine that with his
next two seasons where he was declining but still effective, especially on offense.
I get the argument for having him as high as two. I totally understand
it. And the teams with him they had the what was it, the
one bad year they won like thirty three games or something, but the teams
with him just seem to work. That twenty fifteen twenty sixteen Charlotte Hornet's team,
Yes, in retrospect, they probably overachieved, and it did lull them
into reinvesting in that core, Nicholas Pertuna being one of them. That team
was fun. That first round series was the Heat going to seven games.
That was just a fun team, and I associate Al Jefferson with that.
He was there. Kema Walker was always their number one option, but they
would really go to him in the post and they would rely on his playmaking.
Where's ability just to like that combination of brute force and finesse that he
could show down there did I obviously did not have him too as you mentioned,
but I could see the case for putting him at two mostly, and
I think I think it's important that he was a central part of both Charlotte
teams that made the playoffs in this last decade. Neither of them advanced out
of the first round. They've missed the playoffs eight times. They've had some
of the worst seasons in NBA history during this ten years stretch. But yeah,
they made the playoffs twice, and he actually was the Windshares leader.
And on the first of those two to hear Nicholas Pertume requests you and I,
it's gonna be really high. It was published under my name, but
you and I tagged the team this We ranked in the top fifty free agents
of twenty sixteen. We ranked Nicholas between number six. Now, just to
give you context on who was around him, Number five in front of him
was Andre Drummond. Number four was this on white side by the way.
Number seven was Mike Conley behind Nicholas. Wow, Okay, we also had
Dwayne Wade behind Nichas between at that point, I would say, I think
that's fair though, that was probably fair at the point, but we had
to Marche Rosen behind him as well. I mean, I think I think
having Betune that high was was valid though, coming off the versatility he displayed,
and we had no idea that injuries were going to affect him like this.
Also, Bradley Beals number ten on this list. I'm going to close
it because it's Yeah, that's bad. Can you stop sharing those results?
It's gonna make me feel bad about myself. Younger Bradley Beale, there's no
excuse for having him that low. Who So, who was our actual number
three through this exercise? Our actual number three for this exercise was Cody Zeller,
who was fourth for the fans, who was third for me, and
who was actually second for you. So if you want to take this overarching
explanation as the highest on Tody Zeller, feel free. I know that he's
had some injury problems in recent years just to plus minus Superhero and did a
lot of things for them defensively as a as a rim rolling guy. Or
a guy who's willing to set screens and do a lot of the dirty work
as a as a defensive rebounder, I feel like his offensive rebound has always
been inconsistent, but it's also had more to do with the way that they
played. And you look at his offensive rebounding over the last three seasons,
that's been by and large very good. He is just solid fundamentally, and
it makes sense to me that the Hornets usually routinely have been so much better
with him on the floor. And if you just look over this past decade,
who is the more consistent contributor for longer for these Hornets then Kemba Walker.
And I don't think he can come up with the name. Part of
that is because there are players who just haven't been around as long as he
had. He is now his sixth seventh season. He's in it to seventh,
all of which have been spent with the Hornets, and so look,
that's just gonna bring up his thereness factor. I do think that a lot
of people wish that, you know, his range might have come along a
little bit better, a little bit more quickly. He's averaging over one three
point attempt per game. This year, but only hitting him twenty four percent
of the time, And there's always been that level of mystery, could he
be a little bit more pick and pop. They've sort of let him dabble
a little bit in those longer twos before the past two seasons as they kind
of got those out of his game. There are disappointments offensively there, and
he's not going to give you a ton but just a solid, fundamental guy.
He's gonna work really hard, set your screens, hit the glass hard.
He's not going to get you killed, you know, as a rim
protector. Look, it's fine if you want like as as your five guy,
but he's not going to be the anchor of a great defense. But
he's also not going to be this huge liability if he's going to get at
least as of a couple of years ago. You know when you watch him
play, when he gets pulled out of the paint. So I feel like
he's probably one of the just the careers. And maybe it's the contract a
little bit, because the contract he's on now I would say slightly overvalues him.
And he ended up being a four year, fifty six million dollars extension
again signed in twenty and sixteen when everyone's getting money, and so I could
see the argument against, yeah, you don't want to pay Cody Zeller,
you know these latter two years, especially a combined thirty million dollars, but
probably looking at his career during this span, one of the NBA's more underrated
players. To me, that was a hell of a monologue. I'm impressed.
Thank you. I really appreciate that. I have very little to add
other than I'm sure that he is a fan favorite in Utah just because of
the screen assists. Yeah, he's He's definitely one of those guys who just
always seems to do everything that doesn't show up in the box score, even
getting hurt, which is probably the biggest negative. And yet he's still six
ten minutes played. He's still fourth in games played over the last decade for
Charlotte. So, as you said, the theirness factor is definitely important here.
But yeah, I mean, just a solid player who who might not
have become what we thought he was going to early in his career. But
it's hard to complain about the career trajectory he's had because he has been valuable
for them. He's more like a guess somebody would be like middle class Steven
Adams with the hairline of a poor man. Steven Adams hey as someone with
a quickly receding headline due in large part to having a fifteen month old child.
I resent that a little bit. I mean, I don't have the
greatest hairline either, so I'm still pretty jealous of it. I think you
have more hair right now than I've seen in a long time. But he
was that might be like the because we look at Steven Adams as that star
who did a lot of things that Cody Zeller does, but just at a
star level, and he like he has those floaters in his game, has
always been a better passer than Cody Zeller. But that might be someone.
I don't think there's styles aligned perfectly because you can do pull ups on Steven
adams biceps and he plays like you could do pull ups on Steven adams biceps.
But that would be sort of the richer power parallel that I would make
for Cody Zeller. Yeah, I think that's a fair one. Who do
we have at number two? I feel like, given the list so far,
this has to be a no brainer. Yeah, And I think it
is a no brainer. And I actually have an important question for you about
Marvin Williams, who was a third from the fan vote, second on mine
and third on yours. No, I do not think he had a better
career than Chris Paul. It's my question is actually like kind of similar.
So he was the second pick in the two thousand and five NBA draft,
which has been criticized a lot, especially because Chris Paul and Darren Williams came
off the board right after him, especially brutal for the Hawks. But he's
now spent fifteen years in the NBA. He's been consistently impactful, maybe not
as a star, but as a quality role player, and probably never more
so than in Charlotte, maybe maybe in Utah for a little bit. But
has he justified being a number two pick at this point, just given the
longevity? I would say no, because I don't think you use the number
two pick in any draft and hope that and do it, but do so
under the notion that he'll never even come close to being an All star.
Right, I guess, like we've seen, number two is where the most
busts happen. Right, We've seen that demonstrated throughout plenty of studies of successive
draft picks, and like, yeah, he was never a star. He
never even came close to sniffing an All Star team, even in the Eastern
Conference, which he's played in for what thirteen of his fifteen seasons. But
still like as as a bust, he's He's played for fifteen years at a
solid level. He's still an important part of a rotation, less so now
that he's in Milwaukee, but even there, he's playing eighteen point five minutes
per games since he arrived. I don't know, I'm not sure he's he's
totally justified it. But like if you told me that I was going to
get fifteen years from a player at a reasonable price point with reasonable production for
so long at number two, like maybe you think about it just like from
a cost benefit analysis perspective, he's definitely not a bust. Yeah, And
that's probably the best way to put it. Like maybe it's semantics to say,
like he didn't justify it, but he's not a bust, But I
think that's accurate. I would like to see though, had he like played
more five not even just earlier, but in general, it always seemed like
Charlotte was a little bit reluctant to go to that with the exception of probably
the past two seasons, and even that he was mostly a four. He
could still defend force two though. And that's the other thing. He's like
an understated floor spacing grim protector. That's like the best way to really put
him. And he was one we were I believe he was a free agent
in twenty sixteen as well, who we were also super high on. So
and I think he's he's kind of validated that just because the like he's,
like you described them, the floor spacing, rim protecting, switchable defender.
It's it's what Atlanta wanted, and he didn't really become that. I don't
think he he embraced the spaciness of his game until he left the Hawks.
But imagine imagine what he could have done on those Mike budenholtzer Halt Hawks.
Imagine what he could have could have been done on the Mike Budenholzler Bucks.
I know he's deechinitely on them right now, but yeah, that's just something
to think about. I'm actually surprised. I thought, I know, we
always overrate buy out candidates and their impact. He was someone I thought who
could wasn't, of course, but he was. He was someone I thought
who could actually be like that, that mid season swing piece still just really
good. And that's an interesting discussion to have if is he did he validate
his number two status? I would say he's closer to Yes than Bust by
a pretty clear margin. That might be the best way to put it.
Yeah, it seems it's seemed weird at number two in my own rankings is
where he was, and it seemed kind of weird to put a guy there
who spent five and a half years in Charlotte and averaged single digit points.
I mean his now that he's on Milwaukee's roster, like his final number from
Charlotte are nine point seven points, five point three rebounds, one point three
assists, zero point eight steals, zero point seven blocks per game. Shot
forty three point seven percent from the field, thirty seven point eight percent from
three, eighty one point nine percent from the free throw line. None of
those are solid or none of those are great. They're all solid. And
that's that's who he was to me, and Charlotte was just that guy who
was just going to get stuff done, didn't didn't need to run plays for
him, but he very consistently aided them. Who's number one? Come on,
it's Kemba Walker. Yeah. No, ke Kemba was number one for
composite, for the fans, for me, for Dan. He only was
not number one on the one ballot that had Michael kid Gilchrist in first place,
but he was number two there and interestingly, like the rest of that
ballot seemed pretty solid. Al Jefferson at three, Cody Zeller at four,
Marvin Williams at five. They did have PJ. Washington and Devonte Graham and
in the top ten, which I think makes you pretty happy, aside from
the non Kemba in the top spot. But come on, like, who
else was it going to be here? There are a bullet point this because
these are the things that I respected moments about Kemba Walker. He enters the
NBA as a bucket getter, and that's what he became to an extent.
But if you look at the first four seasons of his career, he was
inefficient and it wasn't just it was around the rim and everything, and then
he you know, by the time twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen rolls around,
he's not just a good three point shooter. He's a good three point shooter
on super high volume, and that's something I always respected because that held and
I feel like you very rarely see that type of jump sustained when a players
already gone through four seasons. And this was a similar to what happened with
Steph Curry's extension when Kemba Walker signed his. I think there was more of
the I don't want to say angered reaction, but there was more of a
question, oh, is is he actually worth this? If you, if
you at least looked at points per game, you probably would say, oh,
that's fine. He turned in to one of the best bargains in the
NBA during that span, and there was a point where he was probably the
best bargain, if only because Stephen Curry's contract ended sooner. So that's just
absurd. Another thing, he has always been better on defense than people give
him credit for. Not good, but when you look at his size,
I would say six foot on a good day, the effort he has put
into fighting over screens being in the right positions, I feel like that's gone
overlooked, and given the burden that he's carried on offense, it did feel
like he slipped a little bit last year, his final season in Charlotte,
but when you look at the load that he's carried for most of his time
in Charlotte, I always feel like the defensive energy and effort he gave went
underappreciated. And finally he's clearly one of the NBA's best leaders. And it
might be in a more sort of deferential fashion because it doesn't seem like he's
the most outspoken. But you hear these stories about how last year when I
think the I think was probably on the wall for him, he's still talking
and mentoring the young guys. They had a text message group. This is
I think it was per Rick Bonnoll of the Charlotte Observer called Kemba and the
Avengers, and it was just him and the kids in a group chat.
That's just that's fucking fantastic. And you're seeing the effects that he has on
Boston. Now that's not part of this, but he comes in and he
doesn't have a problem. Maybe it's in part because he spent so long being
all everything in Charlotte, but he doesn't have a problem being the number two
to Jason Tatum. He doesn't never a problem deferring to Jaylen Brown on points
as well. So there are just so many things that I appreciate Kemba Walker,
the improvement, the leadership, and then just the effort that he's given
on defense relative to I think his reputation. I'm not saying that Kemba Walker
is this really good defender, but those are things that really stand out to
me when you look at his career. And then of course number four,
his arness right right and to the bareness point, you know, twenty thousand,
six hundred and seven minutes in Charlotte's second places Marvin Williams at eleven thousand,
six hundred teen, Like that alone probably pushes him into the number one
spot. And I'm not gonna lie, like Kemba is one of my all
time favorite players. I totally fell in love with his game during I think
it was the twenty eleven Big East Tournament, the one where he won like
six games in six days, made the ridiculous step back jumper over Stephen McGee
from Pittsburgh. Like it was it was hard not to love him. Then.
I was all over him coming into the draft, and it's been fun
to like watch that love be validated over the years, and it's it's almost
unfathomable a guy who was an inefficient jump shooter, like the shot we associate
most with him now is like coming around a screen and immediately pulling up for
a three. It's off the dribble threes too, it's the it's the off
the dribble threes, and it's like it's him, It's Damian Lillard, it's
James Harden. The guys who will curl around that screen, stop and jump
and take that contact right away and still make the shot like those are the
three guys that I associate that with with that shot more than anyone else.
And for him to get to that point after being such a limited shooter throughout
his rookie contract is amazing. Like it was his fourth season in the NBA
where he shot thirty point four percent on threes, he shot thirty eight point
five percent from the field, and now he's a remarkably efficient off the dribble
score. It's I think it's it's one of the biggest testaments to hard work
from a star we've seen within recent NBA history and an offense unto himself the
Hornets. I don't like comparing specific lineups to just teams in general. But
the Hornets offensive rating was top shelf in the NBA last year with Kima Walker
on the floor. And I'm using last year because that team, if you
look at his supporting cast, just didn't have it. So he can be
that offense unto himself and that's huge. And he also has you mentioned this
with that shot. I remember the shot while he was at Yukon as well.
And this is coming from someone who wasn't really interested in college basketball ever.
I do my draft cramming, you know, a couple of months before
the draft. I remember that shot, and it also just feels like the
stats do not back this up. But when it's crunched time, that mid
range pull up, it just still feels like it's money, especially when he's
playing the Knicks. For some reason, as someone who thought that Marcus Smart's
clutch shooting percentages were very high, I would advise you to not look that
up. I don't know what it is, but I just I don't want
you to be as disappointed as I was, just in case. I tend
not to wait too much into crunch time performances because I don't really either.
There's so much luck in there, which I don't want to look his thought
stats for it, but he's the one where it's like by reputation or someone
who has the clutch geen, Like he's just one of those guys. I've
always thought of the clutch geen more as maintaining performance than elevating performance. Yeah,
so I can see that. Who who else received votes? This is
one of it's a long list and it gets ugly, but let's run through
him. So in the fan vote, we had tied for eleventh, where
Dwight Howard and Bismack bionbo. I guess, actually, before before we do
this, if we want to backtrack, because I actually did have somebody on
my list who wasn't in the top ten, and I am curious for your
thoughts about them before get to the fans honorable mentions, And that was Josh
McRoberts, who I put in my tent spot kind of because of the bairness,
also because I think like his contributions were just a little bit underrated while
he was in Charlotte. It was tough to to have him there over Devonte
Graham and and over Gerald Wallace. But I don't think I regret it.
Maybe just the time that he played where was the floor spacing big man wasn't
like what now where? It's not that they're not an asset, but if
you were Josh mcrobertson today's NBA, it's just like, well, show me
something else, like you need to operate off the dribble or switch a ton
defensively. But when you look at what the time he was in Charlotte,
you know, the twenty twenty thirteen, perhaps that's part of it. I
mean, he played well enough in twenty thirteen twenty fourteen for the Miami Heat
to overpay him in free agency, right, and they were better with him
on the court, which which definitely matters too, especially for the guys who
who are there for their bairness. Just not I don't know, I guess
because he only spent you know, a partial season and then a full year
there just didn't really do it for me. He did the full season that
he spent there. He did average over thirty minutes per game, though,
so it's not like you're dealing with a crazy small sample. And what people
probably don't really remember is that year he ever's over four assist per game.
So he was definitely a better offensive player than he's remembered for. He's remembered
for his offense, but he's actually better when people remember him for. You
weren't going to get me to take off JARYD. Wallace or DeVante Graham.
And that's which is totally fair. If anything, I probably could have thought
about bumping MKG, but that would have been too cruel. Wow wow,
Okay, but yeah, I wanted I wanted Josh McRoberts to get a little
love before we went through all these honorable mentions, which we can do now.
So Ted tied for eleventh. We had Dwight Howard and Bismack Biondo and
feel free to interrupt and say something about any why is Dwight Howard there?
His one season was pretty good. Yeah, but why is he ahead of
both PJ. Washington and Miles Bridges should be ahead of Dwight Howard. I
don't disagree with you. That is my take. That is gospel. That
is Dwight Howard did actually get a second place vote, which it was surprising.
It's good to know that Dwight Howard participated in this exercise. Then yeah,
thank you, thank you, Dwight. I appreciate the humility of not
putting yourself first. Was Kemba at least first in that in that ballot.
We probably have no idea right now, well we do, just because the
only other one had had MKG at number one. So the Dwight Howard ballot,
Oh, I forgot about that one. No, So this was one
that I actually had to modify a little bit because they had They had Kemba
Walker first, Dwight Howard, second, Dwight Howard, third, Dwight Howard,
fourth, Dwight Howard, fifth, Dwight Howard, sixth, all the
way through tenth. So I just removed the third through tenth because we are
limited one appearance for player. It had to be just enough humility to put
Kemba Walker in there, but then nobody else. But yeah, like,
if if I had included all of those votes, he would have risen up
to ninth place. So we we dodged a bullet there. Please continue.
Yeah. So so moving on beyond White, Howard and Bismack Beyonmbo tied at
eleventh, we have DJ Augustine at thirteenth. We have Jeremy Lynn at fourteenth,
we have Stephen Jackson. At fifteenth. We had Boris Diaw At sixteenth,
we had Tony Parker. At seventeenth. We had Josh McRoberts at eighteenth,
which is sad because I think he deserved to be higher. We had
Frank Kaminski at nineteenth, we had a Mecca Oka four. At twentieth,
we had Terry Rosier, Ramon sessions Byron Mullins and Lance Stevenson grouped together in
a tie for twenty first. At twenty fifth, we had a three way
tie between Ben Gordon, PJ. Washington, and the one and only Sagana
jop Nice proud of you, thank you. I had to work on that
pronunciation since it's been a while since we since we heard his name. At
twenty eighth, we had a two way tie between DJ White and Marco Belinelli,
who I actually thought was gonna show up a little higher since he did
have like one pretty good season in Charlotte, which is more than we can
say about some of these other guys who we've already named. At thirtieth we
had Derek Brown. Thirty first is a three way tie between Corey mcgetty,
Jeff Adrian, and Miles Bridges. And at thirty fourth we have a three
way tie between Moe Williams, Malik Monk, and Gary Neal. Wow,
I'm surprised Remote Sessions didn't get a little bit more love. Maybe that's just
like two anecdotally. Maybe I'm overrating him there. Then did any of the
Martin brothers, Caleber, Cody were they on there? Either of the Martin
brothers received any votes? I feel like Cody should have been on there,
but whatever, he could have been, but it's it's hard when it's a
rookie during abbreviated season. Did Jeremy Line get any love? Jeremy Lynde did
get some love. He was a tie for fourteenth. He appeared on on
a little under a quarter of the ballots that were submitted, all right,
but never higher than a than fifth place. He had his one year.
He only spent one year in Sharrow. That definitely has to be part of
it. His one year was pretty good though. Yeah, he was on
the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen team. I'm actually surprised that he didn't get that.
I know he didn't shoot great from three that year, but you know,
him and Kema Walker worked offensively anyway together, right, And so that
I'm a little bit surprised that he wasn't closer to ten. Yeah, I
think DJ Augustine is the big one for me, where he was just like
a steady offensive point guard, naming all these second string point guards right right
right, It's it's dire straits here in the in the Charlotte Hornet's podcast.
Do you have anything else to add to this? Let's move on to Chicago.
Yes, that'll be dropping shortly. They should be. They're gonna be
tougher, but they'll be more upbeat than this. I'm I have not submitted
my ballot for them, even though our our voting is open for Chicago,
and I'm I'm struggling with the order of my top three. Yeah, so
the Chicago voting is open. Everybody go to at NBA Underscore Math. Thank
you all for listening to this. We've actually gotten some feedback, at least
I have in the DMS that you guys are enjoying these podcasts. So please
tell tell your friends, acquaintances, family members, everybody about it. We've
had some fun doing them. And Chicago bills ohs, we'll be up next.
Until then, I leave everybody with a shout out too. This is
a tough one. I feel like I'm gonna go with Staghana Job. Shout
out to him, Sugar Ray, Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin
Hagler, and Thomas Hearns. Legends whose four way rivalry define one of the
greatest errors in boxing history, relive their decade of dominance in the new Showtime
Sports documentary The Kings, a four parts series premiering Sunday, June sixth,
only on Showtime