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Thanks for listening onto the show. Hey there, Hi there, Hello,
they're Hardwood Box listeners. This is Dama Valley coming at you with a
housekeeping note. Before the housekeeping notes, just want to offer up a make
copa. At some point during this podcast. I think it's actually twice I
refer to Michael Jordan's first title as coming in nineteen ninety. I am very
much aware that it didn't come until ninety one. Just got my years mixed
up. It was late. I wanted to get out in front of this
before we got to the well actual ease in a comments section. All right,
let's get the potting. Hey, Hi, hello, Hardwa Knox listeners.
I am Dama Valley coming at you, not only with Andrew g Belly,
but absolutely positively on my lonesome this time. This is going to be
our first reaction pod to the Last Dance documentary about Michael Jordan, the Chicago
Bulls that predominantly at ninety seven ninety eight team. We'll try and have those
up Sunday nights or let's say midnight Monday mornings within an hour after the documentary
airs. Andy will normally be joining me on those, but this week he
was unable to, So I'm going to roll forward and do it myself.
Also have a couple of just news slash rumory notes to catch up on that
we haven't talked about while we've been rolling out our historical player ranking series.
Before we can and ball into all that fun, though, I just want
to remind Employer Bag plead with everyone rate reviews, subscribe to us on iTunes.
That's still the best way to let us know that you're out there and
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all of our pods will be up on there. The Historical player ranking series.
I have a playlist set ups you can check out all the ones that
we've done and that's where all thirty teams will be housed. Also on the
landing page on MBA math for that or again you can find those. Just
check your podcast player and search through all of them. We have done up
through the Denver Nuggets as I record this, and the Detroit Pistons will be
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With all of that said, let's get into some quick news and rumor
notes. Just two that I really have highlighted. We're catching up on this
one. David Aldridge of The Athletic sort of in a chat mentioned something about
the Jazz grown frustrated with Rudy Gobert before the whole coronavirus issue popped up.
This is from him responding to a reader quote. There have been rumblings well
before either of them contracted coronavirus that the Jazz were growing weary of Gobert,
not that they were actively shopping him or trying to get rid of him,
but that he might be more available than you'd think a defensive player of the
Year and guy who is such an anchor would be. It will not surprise
me if Utah moves on after this season. This is really interesting because Rudy
Gobert was sort of a polarizing figure figure when you look at the future before
this whole coronavirus thing. Because he's going to be extension eligible this summer,
and if you're the Jazz, no, you don't have to give him a
Supermax, but you do have to figure out whether you want to extend him
at all and what type of money he's going to cost. He is an
incredible anchor for your defense. There have been times I spoke with Andy about
this, our resident Jazz aficionado, where he's just seemed disinterested on defense this
year. But he's still one of the three to five biggest difference makers on
defense in the league and he's important to what they do. But he's slated
to earn twenty six point five million dollars in twenty twenty two twenty one,
and if you're going to have to pay him similar money after that. Moving
forward, over two three four years. Whatever it is, you get into
some risky territory. He turns twenty eight this June, and we know that
the center position has been increasingly devalued when you look at specifically traditional bigs who
are really only going to be rim runners on offense as opposed to jump shooters,
guys who can spray the ball when they're rolling to the basket out to
other shooters. That's really never been much of Gobert's game. That all said.
He's more sorchable on defense than people really give him credit for. Just
because he struggled in certain playoff series. People keep going back to that Houston
Rockets series from from last year. While what the Jazz did wasn't working at
first, they actually did kind of have a handle on Houston's offense towards the
end. That's to say that Rudy Gobert, had that happened from the jump,
would have been the reason that they won that series. I'm not saying
that he isn't schemable in certain matchups, but when you're looking at basically we
played off the floor, Rudy Goboard is going to be more of an exception
than a rule. You're gonna have an easier time, much easier time playing
other biggs off the floor than him. And the fact that you can funnel
basically entire offenses into the paint because you know that he's going to be there
to just swallow shots hole at the rim or to deter them in general,
that's a really big deal. Still, I wouldn't give him close to mass
money in his next contract. It's just too uneasy looking ahead. And I
know that Donovan Mitchell is more important to the jazz Is future at this point
just because he's younger and he sort of fits the archetype of what these champion
building blocks are supposed to be, and that's a primary scorer. But he's
still not the most efficient guy. I know that Mike Conley trade really hasn't
panned out for Utah, but between getting Jordan Clarkson having Bollanmogdanovich, Donovan Mitchell's
respond ability is at least slightly alleviated compared to last year, and he doesn't
really have the efficiency numbers to back that up. His pull up percentages are
really all over the place. You can't trust him to get at the freeze
a line on a reliable clip, and the number is when he plays about
Rudy Gobert. The Jazz are getting absolutely slaughtered during that time, and it's
not the defense's problem. Their offense has been a disaster during those minutes,
and that's what puts the Jazz in such this weird situation is that Donovan Mitchell
is clearly the most important asset looking into the future, but Rudy Gobert is
their most valuable player right now. And Donovan Mitchell hasn't done anything to me
that would suggest this is on the verge of changing, and it certainly hasn't
changed yet by this point. So what he might be I'm talking about Donovan
Mitchell is exceeding what he actually is right now, and that really warps the
Jazz's future. Even if you take Donovan Mitchell out of the equation, though,
I think you have to be careful with Gobert's next contract, and if
the Jazz really wanted to, I wonder if they could play hardball, let
him reach free agency in twenty twenty one and sort of let the market dictate
his price. The problem with that is you're dealing with egos in the NBA,
and he might not forget that they had the chance to extend him and
didn't. That could prompt him to leave, and you obviously don't want to
lose him for nothing. The flip side of all this is it wouldn't surprise
me either if he got moved, But I just don't know what you move
him for. Teams don't really need centers at this point, and Gobert is
an exception in the sense that because he's a defensive player of the year,
because he can effectively guarantee you, let's say, a top ten or twelve
defense, if you just have barely any other defensive talent around him, there
will be interest. But where are you getting in return just because he's going
to be a free agent in twenty one, because of what he might have
to make it should his next team resign him. Big bigs for wing,
bigs for guards. Trades are rare in general at this point, and when
you factor in all the financial baggage, let's call it comes into play with
Rudy Gobert. I don't know who's going to come over the top with a
package. A lot of people suggested that the Boston Celtics might get involved.
The problems with that is they still don't have salary filler for that. They're
not going to give up Joel and Brown for Rudy Gobert, and so you
can forget about John Brown, Jason Tatum. The Jazz are not going on
Gordon Hayward back if that was even an option. The other thing for me
is, while I do believe Boston sort of understands that they need to put
more pressure on the rim with their bigs than they have in years past,
Brad Stevens runs an offense that's just more reliant on the pick and pop.
They'd like they're biggest to be able to space the floor a little bit,
and Rudy Gobert isn't going to help a ton with that. And then once
you move on from them, you're dealing with your target demographic of suitors is
going to be teams that want to contend immediately, and those squads need a
center in most cases even less than just overall, where is Rudy Gobert are
going to be the best fit there? Then what the Clippers like? I'm
sure, but what do you want from the Clippers? You can't take.
You know, they're limited in what they can give up in terms of draft
picks, and you can't really take Landry Shammitt as the centerpiece of a deal
in Rudy Gobert and then win the press conference. I just don't think the
Jazz are are at that point. Could the Knicks maybe include Mitchell Robinson picks
perhaps, but what does that do for the Jazz. And that's what makes
this even more complicated, is the Jazz are looking to win now unless Rudy
Rudy Gobert signals that they're ready to rebuild, which I don't think it would
because Donovan Mitchell is as overlated, let's say, as he might be,
He's still an impact player. Now. You signed and acquired Bland Vardanovitch last
summer, you have Joe Ingles on the books, you just extended Royce O'Neil's.
Isn't a team that seems like it's gearing up for a rebuild. And
I just don't know the list of suitors there is short to begin with,
and then the packages that you could get back in return. I just don't
think they're going to be as impressive or as valuable to the Jazz is what
Rudy Gobert actually does for them. We're talking about an All NBA center,
a defensive of the year, and I just don't think the value on the
trademarket is ever going to match up with that. The hope for them,
I think, then is if they are worried at all about the Midrigal Bearer
relationship, you hope the two quash that, and I really don't see that
being a huge deal long term. The second thing that you have to be
most concerned about is I think you wait out the contract situation, or you
just hope that maybe you're able to strike a better deal in extension talks than
you originally thought. But you've we're past the point where I think they can
justify giving him this monster deal moving forward, just because where else are they
going to spend that money? If that's the reaction there. Our final news
note, and perhaps the most important one is Adrian Wrdsnorowski ESPN reported over the
weekend that the NBA is reopening team practice facilities soon where local restrictions have eased,
and this is from the article the news article that will published. Players
can return to team facilities and states such as Georgia for voluntary individual workouts as
soon as next week, which allows for NBA organizations to start allowing players to
return to training in a profess safe environment. Orge goes on to note that
group workouts are still going to be off limits. I don't. I think
it's interesting in the sense that should the NBA come back to these markets where
they've reopened things more quickly, suddenly have a competitive advantage over those that have
remained closed. Because, yes, every team is probably gonna get a two
three week training camp whatever it is, should the NBA season resume, But
what if you have guys who've been able to work out and practice at the
training facility, even at an individual level, for a month before that.
I don't think it's a huge issue, just as people have pointed out big
markets have had such a huge advantage in free agency and in general when it
comes to attracting players. If we're going to give a team like Oklahoma City
or the Atlantahawks, weren't even going to be in the playoffs, the competitive
advantage of actually having players being allowed into gyms, that's really a non issue.
The more important aspect of this would be to monitor how the country responds
to these stay at home restrictions being loosened close to across the board. I
know they are going to be a bunch of other states, and including my
own, which is New York, where they're going to remain closed. I
would be surprised if it happens, if we start reopening things here personally,
but before June. But what is the response going to be elsewhere? If
there is the second waves of the coronavirus breaking out where we get to a
point where those states are going to shut down again, that actually might end
up jeopardizing the NBA season more. And that's why I don't really take this
news as a harboring job one way or the other. In fact that the
NBA is nearing a return or is hashed out how they would return should all
the states sort of loosen their stay at home orders. It is still something
worth monitoring, though, just because there are hared no sports live sports right
now and this news is all we have to hang on. But at least
players, the vast majority of which don't have these huge home gyms or gymnasiums
at their house, it's great that they can get in for individual workouts.
I tend to wonder though, if some of the states are just reopening too
soon. In general. This specific issue, though, I don't really think
is too pertinent to that, just because we're talking about individual workouts rather than
these huge group practice sessions, and it sounds like they're going to be voluntary.
So if players feel uncomfortable with doing it, then then they don't have
to. And the other hope would obviously be that if there are some players
that are a little bit more loosey goosey than others who once their market has
loosened the state at homeowners, they're going out, they're doing more regular things.
Does them going to the gym, maybe working out with a trainer.
Does that threatened to pass on the coronavirus through the rest of the team.
That way all things that we have to keep track of. But the NBA,
in some form, in some small capacity, is reopening its doors.
Take that for what it is, and let's just keep an eye on what
happens to it moving forward. At Tension Hardwood Knox listeners. With currently no
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You're online wagering experts. Let's talk about episodes three and four of the Last
ATS documentary. Though, if you haven't watched it, I guess I could
say that there are spoilers ahead, but all this stuff has happened in the
past, so I don't know how it's considered spoilers. If you're like me,
though, I think you're finally appreciating that maybe you were too young to
fully understand what was going on during that ninety seven ninety eight season with Chicago,
just how open the discord was or how obvious it was that this was
going to be the final season for this core And that's why I took away
from episodes one and two more so than anything else. And of course the
Scottie Pippen stuff there was absolutely fantastic. So if you haven't checked out those
first two episodes, I would highly recommend them. Episodes three and four were
good as well. We really saw a peek behind the curtain of Dennis Rodman,
didn't get too much into his childhood. That was more so in the
ESPN thirty for thirty doc that they's on him, which I actually have not
seen, but I heard it's fantastic, So I need to check that out,
and we'll check that out, and I just recommend it blindly, just
based off what I've heard from other people to all of you. What I
really appreciated about this was sort of the quotes we got throughout episodes three and
a little bit into four about how important Dennis Rodman really was or how much
other players despised going up against him. So this is for Gary Payton said
in this doc, Dennis Rodman was the fuck up person. He fused everything
up. He was a pest, shutting down whoever he wanted to. And
if you go back and look at Dennis rodman highlights, there are just some
amazing plays that he had in his athletic prime, many of which came before
he was ever in Chicago. You look at the chase down blocks he had
with Detroit has if you guys don't remember the block he actually had on Scottie
Pippen in transition, just absolutely swallowed that shot. Is a real fun one
to watch. Just also just this really perpetual hustler on the court, and
he kind of understood his role, and he mentioned that in the documentary that
he really started to grasp that his value was on the defensive ent. And
you look at the way he boxed out and fought for rebounds, one up
for putbacks. MJ said this about Rodman in episode three, Dennis is one
of the smartest guys I played with. He had no limits to what he
does. Dennis Rodman also at the beginning of episode three said this, and
I really don't think it. Probably is one of those quotes that could be
aggregated or be considered hot taking, but I really don't think it is.
He said. Dennis Rodman said, you got the great Michael Jordan, the
great Scottie Pippen, the great Phil Jackson. But if you take me away
from this team, do they still win a championship? I don't think so.
Probably fair on some level, just I don't think when you look at
these Bulls teams, I do feel like there's this tendency not to forget about
Dennis Rodman. But maybe you talk about Steve Kerr more so than you do
Dennis Rodman. And a large part of that, Steve Kerrs even said,
is because that he is now famous for being a coach of the Warriors,
had his career as an analyst, was also in the front officer for the
Phoenix Suns. Maybe that factors into it. But Dennis Robmin is still one
of the more underrated talents the NBA has ever seen, and you should just
go back and watch him. Dennis Rodman highlight film. I made a video
for the blue Wire Twitter account follow at blue Wire Pott's nice plug there just
for some of some of his best highlights leading up to episodes three and four,
because we knew it was going to be a focus of him. There
was this one pot that I found where he's just really hassling Magic Johnson,
Like that's the kind of defensive versatility that he had basically one through five.
And so just go back check out those Dennis Robin highlights. Moving on from
the Dennis Robin stuff. One of the other things that I found so interesting
that I think is a kitchen sink takeaway at this point through the first four
episodes, is how different the media landscape was, how more candidate seems like
players were in interviews. I know, we talk about how social media,
Instagram and just the access that we have to players now it provides more of
a window into what they're doing and what they're all about. And I don't
fully disagree with that, but we're just not going to see I feel like,
as honest answers as we might have seen in those years when the media
scrums were smaller. I mean, if you watch this documentary when and I'm
gonna talk about Michael Jordan addressing his future in a second, but when you
look at just some of the home scrums of reporters talking to Michael Jordan,
they really weren't that big. If that were today, they would just be
absolutely massive, and he would probably have to have these huge podium interviews even
after shoot rounds or something. And I do really find that interesting. And
then also just how honest or more likely the players would be brutally honest.
It's something that stands out we've talked about the Scottie Pippin trade demand demands plo.
It happened more than once with the Bulls as a result of this documentary.
He says in episode four. Bottom line is I was willing to accept
a trade if they did it, and I knew they weren't going to do
it. And that was him talking about his decision to walk back to the
trade demand. It's just it's absolutely wild, how really honest these players were,
how open that trade demand was. Yeah, we've dealt with the Jimmy
Butler stuff in the modern era, and we have all these these rumors that
sort of sprinkle out at the same time. I almost wish that we have.
I'm not really a nostalgic person. I'm not an old school guy.
I don't meant the basketball isn't that basketball now isn't what it was then.
I actually think that today's players are probably more talented than any generation we've seen.
But I really would love to see more of these these insightful quotes.
And I don't think it's necessarily the player's fault. They're more guarded now because
of social media, and then they're just were saturated. They're saturated by media
members like myself. It's just it's part of the job description now, and
it seems like the Bulls were sort of starting to feel that type of pressure
during this season because of the finality of this run together. Dennis Robins said
during this documentary, it's not just basketball that we have to deal with on
this team. It's the pressure of the bullshit. I'll play the game for
free, but you get paid for the bullshit after you leave the floor.
That probably still applies today. We make fun of players for them speaking about
their love of the game or that they would do this job for free if
they could, YadA, YadA, YadA. The money is important to everybody,
and maybe more important to or definitely more important to some than others.
But what these players just have to deal with, particularly now, the constant,
relentless, unending scrutiny. I don't necessarily admire it. I've said on
many occasions that I wish players didn't lean into the meme culture a little bit
more. I don't have a problem with people captioning screenshots and photos with jokey
terms, but when you're really criticizing a player, really getting into their value
as a person based off what they're doing on the basketball court. We are
entering just it's not uncharted territory, and maybe in some instances it's not necessarily
unfair territory. But again, the world would just be relentless is every aspect
of their lives is on display. And this Bulls team back then seems like
an anomaly in that regard where it seems like that that attention was starting to
wear on them. And Michael Jordan, this is the next top I want
to talk about. He had said that he wasn't going to come back after
the ninety seven ninety eight season to play for anyone except Phil Jackson, and
meanwhile you had Jerry Krauss saying that Phil Jackson was absolutely going to be done
after that year. Jordan was being asked about his future basically at every stop.
He even mentioned to the reporters it's not the home beat writers that he
was necessarily worried about answering to, it's it's the road scrums, because they
had to ask him the same question over and over again every time he traveled.
And I understand both sides. I could understand Jordan getting frustrated with it.
I could also understand the questions being asked because that is a reporter's job.
A media member's job is they have to ask the questions that they know
the readers the fans are going to care about. And I found most interesting
the way that Jordan was willing to entertain those questions. He kept giving the
same answers about how essentially he didn't want to talk about it, or just
re iterating what he had sel ready that he wouldn't play for anyone except Phil
Jackson. But you kind of neutralize the interest in that effect is that you're
entertaining the questions and you're not making a big deal. I think Kevin Durant
probably could have still took a page out of Jordan's book when we're looking at
all the questions he faced during the twenty eight twenty nineteen season about his future
with the Warriors. I totally understand that these questions can get grading, but
Jordan was really justice media savant. Do you look at just the way he
complimented his teammates, namely Scottie Pippen, and then even the stuff he says
now about Dennis Rodman. Just really knew how to work the room in that
regard, and I think that It's something that current players could probably stand to
learn from if they know, if they're a superstar and they know they're going
to get all these questions labbed their way about impending free agency. You don't
have to be necessarily hostile about it. You can just shut it down by
saying I've already commented on it, and my thoughts on it, my stance,
my opinion, my thoughts, my motivations, they haven't changed to this
point, and I think that's probably the best way to handle it. I'm
not in their shoes, though, again, so I understand that I really
can't empathize with them to that extent. I just looking at MJ know of
the type of player he was and how much interest there would have been in
what he was going to do after that year, particularly long he had already
walked away from the game once. The fact that he was able to handle
those incessant, incessant questions so well, it's something that I kind of respect,
and again, I think it provides a blueprint for how today's free agents,
particularly the big name ones, can carry themselves when they're dealing with all
those types of inquiries into their future. I wanted to also talk about the
Jerry Kraft's element of all this. There wasn't as much focus on him in
episodes three and four as there was in one and two, where I wouldn't
really even stop short of saying the bulls or that he was throwing an their
bus for the finality of this ninety seven ninety eight season, and you could
see that Jordan was visibly frustrated with him during those episodes, given the clips
of the comments that he threw Jerry Kraft's way. There is two sides every
story. Jerry Kraft is not alive right now to tell his but in this
in these two sites, these two episodes, he came out at the All
Star break just reiterating that Phil Jackson wouldn't be back, and while they would
love to have Michael Jordan back, he's gonna have to come to terms with
Phil Jackson not being there. To talk about just throwing gasoline on the fire
probably just not the smartest thing to say in that regard, And we don't
really have front office executives basketball operations. Guy's coming out in public and saying
that anymore. It's it's again. I just want to reiterate the discrepancy between
what players and basketball members are willing to say on record to the public compared
to what they're willing to say now we might have more access. I honestly
don't know if we have more insight though, or if we have more access
to the truth, just because it seems like I mean, kudos to the
players for a lot of them becoming media experts and they know how to talk
their way around questions. I just appreciate this. I'm sure was at times
detrimental candor what I was reminded of, though Jerry Cross was not always this
villainous figure. They showed clips of the team celebrating their for their first title
nineteen ninety and Scotty Jerry Cross is on the plane dancing and Scottie Pippen.
He and him seem to have a really good rapport. And so it's just
as the years went on, there are a lot of things that built up.
You look at Scottie Pippen's contract that was a focus of episodes one and
two as well. You look at him trying to push Phil Jackson out on
multiple occasions, the reaction that that got from from Michael Jordan, and then
combined with just the open ended nature of how ninety seven ninety eight was going
to be this course final year. That really seemed to damage not just the
whatever poor relationship he might have had with the players, with the coaches,
but just his legacy in Chicago in general, because he did do a lot
of good for the Bulls and he was known as this really scouting expert.
There's just that's going to be lost to history, to the anecdotes that are
gleamed from this documentary, but the events that led up to the Bulls dissolution
in general? Is that fair? Is it unfair? I honestly don't know.
The jokes are going to be made. I'm probably going to make a
few of them myself, but it does to me, it does suck that
this wasn't released when Jerry Krafts is still I've just to at least get his
side of the story. I'm not trying to take sides here or whatever,
but I'm a big fan of the two sided context. I'm also a big
fan of the jokes, so you can keep those coming. I do think
there's a clear separation there where you can joke about it Pippin's contract and Pippin's
agent without necessarily ignoring the truth that, yeah, his agent and Pult's ownership
didn't want Pippin to sign that seven year, eighteen million dollars deal either,
And then I think you can make those jokes without annoying the fact that,
given Pippin's life background, him coming from such poverty, that he really wanted
that financial security that came with the seven year, eighteen million dollars deal.
I don't think you can fault him for signing it. I also don't think
you could fault him for becoming frustrated that he became so overpaid. Sticking with
episodes three and four of though since that was just a little bit of a
real turn black episodes one and two what I think other people kind of forgot,
or at least I forgot. I'm not trying to loop everyone into my
own thoughts. Episodes Blew and Forward dealt with Phil Jackson starting out with the
Bulls and then working his way up to head coach to succeed Doug Collins,
and how Michael Jordan wasn't even really this huge supporter of Phil Jackson at first,
how skeptical he was of the Triangle offense because it was taking the ball
out of his hands. Phil Jackson just bluntly saying to Michael Jordan, I
don't anticipate you leading the league and scoring anymore in this system. And it
did seem that there was some pushback from from Jordan, but you got to
a point where he really bought in and he was starting to trust his teammates.
That's something that the documentary touches on too, is he was certainly demanding.
And we've seen those clips too, and we've just known those stories as
well. They bore on myth now and how cruel he could have been or
how hard he was on certain teammates, but there was that willingness to trust.
There was something that stands out to me is in one of these episodes,
Phil Jackson tells him that he needs to pass the ball to John Packson
after a play where he didn't really see him or saw him and decided to
take a contested shot. Jordan then on the next instance where he has the
opportunity to pass to Packson, he does. Packson makes the shot and that
sort of just builds his trust. And you even talk about Steve Kerr that
way, the passes that he's he threw to him as well, Jordan did
have this level of trust and appreciation for his teammates, regardless of how hard
he was on them at stages, and this provided a nice window into how
that trust was formed, because it does seem like Jordan was skeptical on money,
if not every level to begin with when Phil Jackson came in, because
he was so used to having the ball in his hands and having the game
catered to his isolations, and to see that relationship eventually he forged with Phil
Jackson's where you go from when Phil start out, Jordan missus Doug Collins,
Jordan doesn't really support him on to fast over the ninety seven ninety eight season,
He's saying he won't come back. He's going to retire if Phil Jackson
doesn't come back. That was that was absolutely incredible to sort of see those
stages from my end. One of the final things I want to talk about
too, Dennis Rodman leaving in the middle of a bull season for a vacation
and how open that just was just open knowledge. It was because you imagine
someone doing that today, you know, Derek Rose going a wall from the
Nicks. It's a little bit different because it wasn't for as long and again
it was a wall. Denis Robin straight up pulled Phil Jackson in the middle
of the nineteen seveninety eight season that he needed a vacation. I so respect
that he ends up going to Vegas and we get all these cool anecdotes from
from that moment. Michael Jordan had told Phil Jackson that if he let this
is what he said. He goes, I'm looking at Phil and I like,
you ain't gonna get that dude back in forty eight hours. I don't
care what you say. He's done. That was MJ's reaction to Phil Jackson
giving Dennis Robin a forty eight hour vacation in Vegas. Denis Robin, of
course, did not come back on time, at least the bulls Jordan says.
They actually had to go get him, and Jordan says, we had
to go get his ass out of bed. I'm not gonna say what's in
his bed or where he was. Robin was also dating Calma Electra at the
time, and she was apparently there when Jordan showed up and she said,
there's a knock on the door. It's Michael Jordan, and I hid.
I didn't want him to see me like that. I'm just like hiding behind
the couch with covers over me. Just absolutely wild, just a wild story
that this was happening again so openly to one of the best teams in NBA
history, to a squad that's going for a three peat, that Dennis Rodman
leaves for a team approved that first so radical in Vegas, and then it
ends up that he does sort of go a wall. He's away from the
bulls without permission, and they physically have to go get him crazy, crazy
times. And I couldn't imagine what would if that happened today, just because
of social media, and then how players really couldn't get their privacy, you
know, Carmen, and let your talk about how much Dennis liked the party
where you go to club after club after club after hours club. You can't
really do that today because there's always gonna be videos posted on social media from
people who recognize NBA fans there. It was really just almost a different life
for these guys. What I will say about Dennis Rodman, I really were
expected the way that this documentary got into these episodes about how much of a
transition it was for him to all of a sudden be in an essence,
Michael Jordan's number two while Scottie Pippen was out dealing with his injury, recovering
from his injury, with the whole trade demand stuff going on, he had
to be as mj put it on the straight and Darrow, and that was
something that he needed to learn and he really ended up getting Jordan what he
needed during that stretch. But then Scottie Pippen came back and that was another
adjustment for Dennis Rodman. This documentary also addressed how Rodman was also sort of
down after that, and Rodman mentioned how he went back to being the third
wheel. Yeah, they were the three most important players on the team,
but there was that relationship, that chemistry, that shared importance between Scottie Pippen
and Michael Jordan that Dennis Rodman wasn't really entirely a part of, and he
felt the effects of that. It's another instance of athletes are human and Dennis
Rodman his past again, I'll point you back to I've certainly read about it,
but I'll point the thirty for thirty documentary Just a Tough just a tough
life and sort of how that stuck with him a little bit or a lot
geting into his NBA career, and then how he wasn't really able to find
this full fledged home until he ended up with Chicago, and everyone mentions how
the Bulls and Jordan and Pippen and Phil Jackson accepted him for what he was.
The incident that they talk about where he's holding a gun when he's with
the Pistons late at night and they find him, and then all of a
sudden that offseason he's gone from the Pistons. That's really sad too, because
it infers that these teams didn't have an obligation to players, and I don't
mental health was clearly not a focus as much of a focus back then as
it is now, and you sort of that's something that you can lament.
Is would today's NBA, today's public conscience be more accepting of Dennis Rodman from
from the get go, where he doesn't have to go to the Bulls to
be really appreciated by by his own it was even really ever fully appreciated.
There just so many things that I find interesting when when you're really looking at
Robman just through that lens, and I thought it was great to see him
get basically an entire episode, and then there was a little bit of focusing
episode for about that trip to Vegas. I really liked seeing all that there
are going to be some of those stories again that stand out, like Michael
Jordan having a knock on his door where wherever he was. But I really,
I really just enjoyed just everything from it. When you're seeing how Gary
Payton, how much he respected him, how much Jordan respect him, calling
him one of the smartest players, he are, smartest teammates he he ever
had, even Phil Jackson's just reaction to Dennis Roman. There did seem to
be that nurturing from Phil Jackson there. And I think my favorite part though,
too, was so once Rodman comes back from his Vegas hiatus, whatever
you want to call it, the Bulls wanted to focus on getting him in
shape. So they ran this drill where the whole team had a jog and
that the player from the back of line would end up having to be at
the front of the line, and Michael Jordan essentially instructed the team that who's
ever at the front has to run slow because he didn't want to be punished
for Dennis Rodman's lack of conditioning. Except that when they started the drill,
Dennis Rodman's going harder than anyone else that he just needed to get away,
came back and it was just fully focused Dennis Rodman Man. Just I wish
I was old enough to remember watching Prime Dennis Rodman again. Go back and
watch those clips. Just hustle, unending, personified, incredible. The last
and final if I want to talk about, is they did really go into
Michael Jordan's shot on Craig Elo. My favorite thing about that was Jordan of
today sort of addressing that Elo shot. He was one mad that Ron Harper
wasn't put on him during those moments that Ron Harper was pissed that the Calves
didn't put him on Jordan, and then so afterwards Jordan hits it and his
reaction to it, this is President day Jordan. He's basically like, he
said, get the fuck out here, go go the fuck anywhere, but
you're out of here. Who's ever not with us? All you fuckers go
to hell? And that was really him just remembering how the writers, even
Bulls Beat writers had written Chicago Law during that time, and he was just
ecstatic to win that series. I love that we're sort of getting this is
Michael Jordan, older Michael Jordan, owner of the Charlotte Hornets, just being
able to go back to those days and having that recall and just saying,
who's ever not with us? All all you fuckers go to hell. I
love that type of that hyperbolic reaction. I'm absolutely positively here for it and
the ego shot. It's funny that it's so synonymous with Jordan's legacy because it's
like it didn't come during one of his championship seasons and it's not something that
pushed the Bulls to the finals or anything that pointed. Yeah, it's certainly
one of the most iconic shots in NBA history, but I do feel like
it sometimes gets more shine than that final shot that he had on Russell.
Maybe I'm actually there. Perhaps I'm living too much in past moments since we're
looking at this documentary, But I love hearing present day Jordan now comments on
looking back at these moments. And I've particularly just enjoyed all the Dennis Rodman
stuff through through this episode. If I hope you enjoyed this solo episode,
by the way, I hope it wasn't too recappy. I hope there was
just some analysis that you appreciate it. If there's something you want to see
us do differently, maybe you want us to hold a mailbag about the last
ADS documentary as we published them weekly, we could try that. Shout me
out on Twitter. Let let me know at Hardware Knocks or at dan Valley
Fall. Once again, just want to remind implore you to rate, review
and subscribe to us on iTunes. Overall, ever else you're getting your podcast,
Still trying to grow this community, still trying to publish regular content.
I believe we'll have three pods for you this week, so hopefully we appreciate
the episodes that we're continuing to publish. And until next time, I leave
you with the shout out too. Who else but Dennis Robin