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Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado. Hey there 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,759 we have Blueire wanted to thank you for your continued support of this podcast. 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,240 With over ninety podcasts across our network, we are committed to bringing you great 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,399 content to fill that sports shaped hole in your heart. To find more Blue 14 00:00:54,439 --> 00:00:58,320 Wire Pods, search for us on iTunes or check out blue wire Pods dot 15 00:00:58,399 --> 00:01:03,200 com. And remember, one day sports will return and it will be glorious. 16 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:21,239 Thanks for listening onto the show. Hey there, Hi there, Hello, 17 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,120 they're Hardwood Box listeners. This is Dama Valley coming at you with a 18 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,000 housekeeping note. Before the housekeeping notes, just want to offer up a make 19 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,439 copa. At some point during this podcast. I think it's actually twice I 20 00:01:30,519 --> 00:01:36,319 refer to Michael Jordan's first title as coming in nineteen ninety. I am very 21 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,359 much aware that it didn't come until ninety one. Just got my years mixed 22 00:01:40,439 --> 00:01:42,000 up. It was late. I wanted to get out in front of this 23 00:01:42,159 --> 00:01:47,040 before we got to the well actual ease in a comments section. All right, 24 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,319 let's get the potting. Hey, Hi, hello, Hardwa Knox listeners. 25 00:01:51,359 --> 00:01:53,400 I am Dama Valley coming at you, not only with Andrew g Belly, 26 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:59,200 but absolutely positively on my lonesome this time. This is going to be 27 00:01:59,239 --> 00:02:05,400 our first reaction pod to the Last Dance documentary about Michael Jordan, the Chicago 28 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,240 Bulls that predominantly at ninety seven ninety eight team. We'll try and have those 29 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:15,120 up Sunday nights or let's say midnight Monday mornings within an hour after the documentary 30 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,319 airs. Andy will normally be joining me on those, but this week he 31 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,120 was unable to, So I'm going to roll forward and do it myself. 32 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,360 Also have a couple of just news slash rumory notes to catch up on that 33 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,639 we haven't talked about while we've been rolling out our historical player ranking series. 34 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,840 Before we can and ball into all that fun, though, I just want 35 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:38,520 to remind Employer Bag plead with everyone rate reviews, subscribe to us on iTunes. 36 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:39,879 That's still the best way to let us know that you're out there and 37 00:02:39,879 --> 00:02:44,360 that you're listening, and to combat any one star reviews we've gotten as a 38 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:50,240 direct result of our comments or semi defense of Kyrie Irving. So we thank 39 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,240 everyone that has done that already. If you have done all those things, 40 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,599 please refer us, retweet the promos that we put out on Twitter, Tell 41 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,120 your friends, family members, fren of me is anybody that you could think 42 00:02:59,159 --> 00:03:02,360 of random people on social media. They'll thank you later. Follow us on 43 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,439 Twitter as well. At Hardwood Knox you can also subscribe and should subscribe to 44 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:12,039 our YouTube channel. Just go to YouTube dot com search Hardwood Knox. Mostly 45 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,240 all of our pods will be up on there. The Historical player ranking series. 46 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:16,159 I have a playlist set ups you can check out all the ones that 47 00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:20,120 we've done and that's where all thirty teams will be housed. Also on the 48 00:03:20,199 --> 00:03:23,199 landing page on MBA math for that or again you can find those. Just 49 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,560 check your podcast player and search through all of them. We have done up 50 00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:30,639 through the Denver Nuggets as I record this, and the Detroit Pistons will be 51 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,680 coming soon, so be sure to check those out. Shout out to our 52 00:03:34,759 --> 00:03:38,280 sponsor as always been online dot AG, you'll be hearing from them shortly. 53 00:03:38,319 --> 00:03:40,240 That's another great way to support the pod is to use that promo code blue 54 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:46,159 Wire all one word to get your welcome bonus on that first deposit you make. 55 00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:50,840 With all of that said, let's get into some quick news and rumor 56 00:03:50,919 --> 00:03:53,919 notes. Just two that I really have highlighted. We're catching up on this 57 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:59,280 one. David Aldridge of The Athletic sort of in a chat mentioned something about 58 00:03:59,319 --> 00:04:03,479 the Jazz grown frustrated with Rudy Gobert before the whole coronavirus issue popped up. 59 00:04:03,919 --> 00:04:09,759 This is from him responding to a reader quote. There have been rumblings well 60 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,479 before either of them contracted coronavirus that the Jazz were growing weary of Gobert, 61 00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:16,360 not that they were actively shopping him or trying to get rid of him, 62 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,519 but that he might be more available than you'd think a defensive player of the 63 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,199 Year and guy who is such an anchor would be. It will not surprise 64 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:30,920 me if Utah moves on after this season. This is really interesting because Rudy 65 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,879 Gobert was sort of a polarizing figure figure when you look at the future before 66 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,560 this whole coronavirus thing. Because he's going to be extension eligible this summer, 67 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,160 and if you're the Jazz, no, you don't have to give him a 68 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,600 Supermax, but you do have to figure out whether you want to extend him 69 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,639 at all and what type of money he's going to cost. He is an 70 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,399 incredible anchor for your defense. There have been times I spoke with Andy about 71 00:04:53,399 --> 00:04:58,399 this, our resident Jazz aficionado, where he's just seemed disinterested on defense this 72 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,800 year. But he's still one of the three to five biggest difference makers on 73 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,360 defense in the league and he's important to what they do. But he's slated 74 00:05:05,399 --> 00:05:11,079 to earn twenty six point five million dollars in twenty twenty two twenty one, 75 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,920 and if you're going to have to pay him similar money after that. Moving 76 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,759 forward, over two three four years. Whatever it is, you get into 77 00:05:18,759 --> 00:05:24,519 some risky territory. He turns twenty eight this June, and we know that 78 00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:30,319 the center position has been increasingly devalued when you look at specifically traditional bigs who 79 00:05:30,319 --> 00:05:33,560 are really only going to be rim runners on offense as opposed to jump shooters, 80 00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:36,279 guys who can spray the ball when they're rolling to the basket out to 81 00:05:36,319 --> 00:05:42,680 other shooters. That's really never been much of Gobert's game. That all said. 82 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,040 He's more sorchable on defense than people really give him credit for. Just 83 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,560 because he struggled in certain playoff series. People keep going back to that Houston 84 00:05:49,639 --> 00:05:56,040 Rockets series from from last year. While what the Jazz did wasn't working at 85 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,439 first, they actually did kind of have a handle on Houston's offense towards the 86 00:05:59,519 --> 00:06:03,319 end. That's to say that Rudy Gobert, had that happened from the jump, 87 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,839 would have been the reason that they won that series. I'm not saying 88 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:10,560 that he isn't schemable in certain matchups, but when you're looking at basically we 89 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,839 played off the floor, Rudy Goboard is going to be more of an exception 90 00:06:13,879 --> 00:06:15,680 than a rule. You're gonna have an easier time, much easier time playing 91 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,519 other biggs off the floor than him. And the fact that you can funnel 92 00:06:19,759 --> 00:06:24,879 basically entire offenses into the paint because you know that he's going to be there 93 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,480 to just swallow shots hole at the rim or to deter them in general, 94 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,279 that's a really big deal. Still, I wouldn't give him close to mass 95 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:39,360 money in his next contract. It's just too uneasy looking ahead. And I 96 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,959 know that Donovan Mitchell is more important to the jazz Is future at this point 97 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,040 just because he's younger and he sort of fits the archetype of what these champion 98 00:06:46,079 --> 00:06:49,279 building blocks are supposed to be, and that's a primary scorer. But he's 99 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,160 still not the most efficient guy. I know that Mike Conley trade really hasn't 100 00:06:54,199 --> 00:06:59,639 panned out for Utah, but between getting Jordan Clarkson having Bollanmogdanovich, Donovan Mitchell's 101 00:06:59,639 --> 00:07:02,480 respond ability is at least slightly alleviated compared to last year, and he doesn't 102 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,000 really have the efficiency numbers to back that up. His pull up percentages are 103 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,560 really all over the place. You can't trust him to get at the freeze 104 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:14,480 a line on a reliable clip, and the number is when he plays about 105 00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:17,959 Rudy Gobert. The Jazz are getting absolutely slaughtered during that time, and it's 106 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:23,639 not the defense's problem. Their offense has been a disaster during those minutes, 107 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,800 and that's what puts the Jazz in such this weird situation is that Donovan Mitchell 108 00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:32,839 is clearly the most important asset looking into the future, but Rudy Gobert is 109 00:07:32,879 --> 00:07:36,600 their most valuable player right now. And Donovan Mitchell hasn't done anything to me 110 00:07:36,959 --> 00:07:42,079 that would suggest this is on the verge of changing, and it certainly hasn't 111 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,959 changed yet by this point. So what he might be I'm talking about Donovan 112 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,680 Mitchell is exceeding what he actually is right now, and that really warps the 113 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,759 Jazz's future. Even if you take Donovan Mitchell out of the equation, though, 114 00:07:54,759 --> 00:07:58,079 I think you have to be careful with Gobert's next contract, and if 115 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,759 the Jazz really wanted to, I wonder if they could play hardball, let 116 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,439 him reach free agency in twenty twenty one and sort of let the market dictate 117 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:09,560 his price. The problem with that is you're dealing with egos in the NBA, 118 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,720 and he might not forget that they had the chance to extend him and 119 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,759 didn't. That could prompt him to leave, and you obviously don't want to 120 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,439 lose him for nothing. The flip side of all this is it wouldn't surprise 121 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,959 me either if he got moved, But I just don't know what you move 122 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,240 him for. Teams don't really need centers at this point, and Gobert is 123 00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:31,559 an exception in the sense that because he's a defensive player of the year, 124 00:08:31,879 --> 00:08:35,799 because he can effectively guarantee you, let's say, a top ten or twelve 125 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,200 defense, if you just have barely any other defensive talent around him, there 126 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,879 will be interest. But where are you getting in return just because he's going 127 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:48,440 to be a free agent in twenty one, because of what he might have 128 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,000 to make it should his next team resign him. Big bigs for wing, 129 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,840 bigs for guards. Trades are rare in general at this point, and when 130 00:08:56,879 --> 00:09:01,000 you factor in all the financial baggage, let's call it comes into play with 131 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,840 Rudy Gobert. I don't know who's going to come over the top with a 132 00:09:03,919 --> 00:09:07,519 package. A lot of people suggested that the Boston Celtics might get involved. 133 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,200 The problems with that is they still don't have salary filler for that. They're 134 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,559 not going to give up Joel and Brown for Rudy Gobert, and so you 135 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,159 can forget about John Brown, Jason Tatum. The Jazz are not going on 136 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,320 Gordon Hayward back if that was even an option. The other thing for me 137 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,519 is, while I do believe Boston sort of understands that they need to put 138 00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:26,559 more pressure on the rim with their bigs than they have in years past, 139 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,720 Brad Stevens runs an offense that's just more reliant on the pick and pop. 140 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:33,279 They'd like they're biggest to be able to space the floor a little bit, 141 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,559 and Rudy Gobert isn't going to help a ton with that. And then once 142 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:43,120 you move on from them, you're dealing with your target demographic of suitors is 143 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:48,519 going to be teams that want to contend immediately, and those squads need a 144 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:54,240 center in most cases even less than just overall, where is Rudy Gobert are 145 00:09:54,279 --> 00:09:56,360 going to be the best fit there? Then what the Clippers like? I'm 146 00:09:56,399 --> 00:09:58,919 sure, but what do you want from the Clippers? You can't take. 147 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,519 You know, they're limited in what they can give up in terms of draft 148 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,879 picks, and you can't really take Landry Shammitt as the centerpiece of a deal 149 00:10:07,879 --> 00:10:09,759 in Rudy Gobert and then win the press conference. I just don't think the 150 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:16,480 Jazz are are at that point. Could the Knicks maybe include Mitchell Robinson picks 151 00:10:16,519 --> 00:10:18,960 perhaps, but what does that do for the Jazz. And that's what makes 152 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,679 this even more complicated, is the Jazz are looking to win now unless Rudy 153 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,840 Rudy Gobert signals that they're ready to rebuild, which I don't think it would 154 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:31,360 because Donovan Mitchell is as overlated, let's say, as he might be, 155 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,320 He's still an impact player. Now. You signed and acquired Bland Vardanovitch last 156 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,039 summer, you have Joe Ingles on the books, you just extended Royce O'Neil's. 157 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,080 Isn't a team that seems like it's gearing up for a rebuild. And 158 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:48,399 I just don't know the list of suitors there is short to begin with, 159 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,440 and then the packages that you could get back in return. I just don't 160 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,720 think they're going to be as impressive or as valuable to the Jazz is what 161 00:10:54,759 --> 00:10:58,960 Rudy Gobert actually does for them. We're talking about an All NBA center, 162 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,879 a defensive of the year, and I just don't think the value on the 163 00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:05,759 trademarket is ever going to match up with that. The hope for them, 164 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,879 I think, then is if they are worried at all about the Midrigal Bearer 165 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:11,679 relationship, you hope the two quash that, and I really don't see that 166 00:11:11,759 --> 00:11:15,000 being a huge deal long term. The second thing that you have to be 167 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,440 most concerned about is I think you wait out the contract situation, or you 168 00:11:18,519 --> 00:11:22,039 just hope that maybe you're able to strike a better deal in extension talks than 169 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,720 you originally thought. But you've we're past the point where I think they can 170 00:11:26,759 --> 00:11:30,840 justify giving him this monster deal moving forward, just because where else are they 171 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,080 going to spend that money? If that's the reaction there. Our final news 172 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,840 note, and perhaps the most important one is Adrian Wrdsnorowski ESPN reported over the 173 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:45,879 weekend that the NBA is reopening team practice facilities soon where local restrictions have eased, 174 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:50,879 and this is from the article the news article that will published. Players 175 00:11:50,919 --> 00:11:54,240 can return to team facilities and states such as Georgia for voluntary individual workouts as 176 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:58,759 soon as next week, which allows for NBA organizations to start allowing players to 177 00:11:58,759 --> 00:12:03,320 return to training in a profess safe environment. Orge goes on to note that 178 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:07,720 group workouts are still going to be off limits. I don't. I think 179 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:13,279 it's interesting in the sense that should the NBA come back to these markets where 180 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,279 they've reopened things more quickly, suddenly have a competitive advantage over those that have 181 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:20,080 remained closed. Because, yes, every team is probably gonna get a two 182 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,799 three week training camp whatever it is, should the NBA season resume, But 183 00:12:24,879 --> 00:12:28,480 what if you have guys who've been able to work out and practice at the 184 00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:31,320 training facility, even at an individual level, for a month before that. 185 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,720 I don't think it's a huge issue, just as people have pointed out big 186 00:12:35,759 --> 00:12:39,879 markets have had such a huge advantage in free agency and in general when it 187 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:45,120 comes to attracting players. If we're going to give a team like Oklahoma City 188 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,279 or the Atlantahawks, weren't even going to be in the playoffs, the competitive 189 00:12:48,279 --> 00:12:52,679 advantage of actually having players being allowed into gyms, that's really a non issue. 190 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:58,519 The more important aspect of this would be to monitor how the country responds 191 00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:03,120 to these stay at home restrictions being loosened close to across the board. I 192 00:13:03,159 --> 00:13:05,919 know they are going to be a bunch of other states, and including my 193 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,759 own, which is New York, where they're going to remain closed. I 194 00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:13,360 would be surprised if it happens, if we start reopening things here personally, 195 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:18,720 but before June. But what is the response going to be elsewhere? If 196 00:13:18,759 --> 00:13:22,840 there is the second waves of the coronavirus breaking out where we get to a 197 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,759 point where those states are going to shut down again, that actually might end 198 00:13:26,799 --> 00:13:30,759 up jeopardizing the NBA season more. And that's why I don't really take this 199 00:13:30,919 --> 00:13:33,320 news as a harboring job one way or the other. In fact that the 200 00:13:33,399 --> 00:13:37,240 NBA is nearing a return or is hashed out how they would return should all 201 00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:41,120 the states sort of loosen their stay at home orders. It is still something 202 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:46,440 worth monitoring, though, just because there are hared no sports live sports right 203 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,919 now and this news is all we have to hang on. But at least 204 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:56,320 players, the vast majority of which don't have these huge home gyms or gymnasiums 205 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,720 at their house, it's great that they can get in for individual workouts. 206 00:14:00,519 --> 00:14:03,480 I tend to wonder though, if some of the states are just reopening too 207 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,840 soon. In general. This specific issue, though, I don't really think 208 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,919 is too pertinent to that, just because we're talking about individual workouts rather than 209 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,399 these huge group practice sessions, and it sounds like they're going to be voluntary. 210 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:18,440 So if players feel uncomfortable with doing it, then then they don't have 211 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,159 to. And the other hope would obviously be that if there are some players 212 00:14:22,159 --> 00:14:26,399 that are a little bit more loosey goosey than others who once their market has 213 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:31,080 loosened the state at homeowners, they're going out, they're doing more regular things. 214 00:14:31,559 --> 00:14:33,399 Does them going to the gym, maybe working out with a trainer. 215 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:39,039 Does that threatened to pass on the coronavirus through the rest of the team. 216 00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:41,679 That way all things that we have to keep track of. But the NBA, 217 00:14:43,039 --> 00:14:46,440 in some form, in some small capacity, is reopening its doors. 218 00:14:46,759 --> 00:14:50,519 Take that for what it is, and let's just keep an eye on what 219 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:56,600 happens to it moving forward. At Tension Hardwood Knox listeners. 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All one word bet online. 229 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:43,559 You're online wagering experts. Let's talk about episodes three and four of the Last 230 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,120 ATS documentary. Though, if you haven't watched it, I guess I could 231 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,120 say that there are spoilers ahead, but all this stuff has happened in the 232 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,799 past, so I don't know how it's considered spoilers. If you're like me, 233 00:15:54,879 --> 00:15:58,600 though, I think you're finally appreciating that maybe you were too young to 234 00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:03,480 fully understand what was going on during that ninety seven ninety eight season with Chicago, 235 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:07,960 just how open the discord was or how obvious it was that this was 236 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,399 going to be the final season for this core And that's why I took away 237 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,799 from episodes one and two more so than anything else. And of course the 238 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,600 Scottie Pippen stuff there was absolutely fantastic. So if you haven't checked out those 239 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,840 first two episodes, I would highly recommend them. Episodes three and four were 240 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,120 good as well. We really saw a peek behind the curtain of Dennis Rodman, 241 00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:32,120 didn't get too much into his childhood. That was more so in the 242 00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:34,399 ESPN thirty for thirty doc that they's on him, which I actually have not 243 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,159 seen, but I heard it's fantastic, So I need to check that out, 244 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,200 and we'll check that out, and I just recommend it blindly, just 245 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,600 based off what I've heard from other people to all of you. What I 246 00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:51,919 really appreciated about this was sort of the quotes we got throughout episodes three and 247 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,679 a little bit into four about how important Dennis Rodman really was or how much 248 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:00,519 other players despised going up against him. So this is for Gary Payton said 249 00:17:00,519 --> 00:17:04,079 in this doc, Dennis Rodman was the fuck up person. He fused everything 250 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,000 up. He was a pest, shutting down whoever he wanted to. And 251 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,880 if you go back and look at Dennis rodman highlights, there are just some 252 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,839 amazing plays that he had in his athletic prime, many of which came before 253 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,480 he was ever in Chicago. You look at the chase down blocks he had 254 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,359 with Detroit has if you guys don't remember the block he actually had on Scottie 255 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,759 Pippen in transition, just absolutely swallowed that shot. Is a real fun one 256 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,039 to watch. Just also just this really perpetual hustler on the court, and 257 00:17:30,079 --> 00:17:33,759 he kind of understood his role, and he mentioned that in the documentary that 258 00:17:33,799 --> 00:17:37,640 he really started to grasp that his value was on the defensive ent. And 259 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,200 you look at the way he boxed out and fought for rebounds, one up 260 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:47,400 for putbacks. MJ said this about Rodman in episode three, Dennis is one 261 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,400 of the smartest guys I played with. He had no limits to what he 262 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,880 does. Dennis Rodman also at the beginning of episode three said this, and 263 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,039 I really don't think it. Probably is one of those quotes that could be 264 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:03,599 aggregated or be considered hot taking, but I really don't think it is. 265 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,640 He said. Dennis Rodman said, you got the great Michael Jordan, the 266 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,759 great Scottie Pippen, the great Phil Jackson. But if you take me away 267 00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:14,000 from this team, do they still win a championship? I don't think so. 268 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,400 Probably fair on some level, just I don't think when you look at 269 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,359 these Bulls teams, I do feel like there's this tendency not to forget about 270 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,720 Dennis Rodman. But maybe you talk about Steve Kerr more so than you do 271 00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:29,519 Dennis Rodman. And a large part of that, Steve Kerrs even said, 272 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,599 is because that he is now famous for being a coach of the Warriors, 273 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,400 had his career as an analyst, was also in the front officer for the 274 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,640 Phoenix Suns. Maybe that factors into it. But Dennis Robmin is still one 275 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,759 of the more underrated talents the NBA has ever seen, and you should just 276 00:18:45,759 --> 00:18:48,559 go back and watch him. Dennis Rodman highlight film. I made a video 277 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,160 for the blue Wire Twitter account follow at blue Wire Pott's nice plug there just 278 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,599 for some of some of his best highlights leading up to episodes three and four, 279 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,400 because we knew it was going to be a focus of him. There 280 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,400 was this one pot that I found where he's just really hassling Magic Johnson, 281 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,920 Like that's the kind of defensive versatility that he had basically one through five. 282 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,240 And so just go back check out those Dennis Robin highlights. Moving on from 283 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,440 the Dennis Robin stuff. One of the other things that I found so interesting 284 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:21,279 that I think is a kitchen sink takeaway at this point through the first four 285 00:19:21,319 --> 00:19:26,839 episodes, is how different the media landscape was, how more candidate seems like 286 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,319 players were in interviews. I know, we talk about how social media, 287 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,359 Instagram and just the access that we have to players now it provides more of 288 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,880 a window into what they're doing and what they're all about. And I don't 289 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:42,160 fully disagree with that, but we're just not going to see I feel like, 290 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:48,839 as honest answers as we might have seen in those years when the media 291 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,839 scrums were smaller. I mean, if you watch this documentary when and I'm 292 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,440 gonna talk about Michael Jordan addressing his future in a second, but when you 293 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,799 look at just some of the home scrums of reporters talking to Michael Jordan, 294 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,400 they really weren't that big. If that were today, they would just be 295 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:07,480 absolutely massive, and he would probably have to have these huge podium interviews even 296 00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:11,359 after shoot rounds or something. And I do really find that interesting. And 297 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:17,519 then also just how honest or more likely the players would be brutally honest. 298 00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:22,480 It's something that stands out we've talked about the Scottie Pippin trade demand demands plo. 299 00:20:22,599 --> 00:20:26,079 It happened more than once with the Bulls as a result of this documentary. 300 00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:30,319 He says in episode four. Bottom line is I was willing to accept 301 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,480 a trade if they did it, and I knew they weren't going to do 302 00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:36,799 it. And that was him talking about his decision to walk back to the 303 00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:41,079 trade demand. It's just it's absolutely wild, how really honest these players were, 304 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,359 how open that trade demand was. Yeah, we've dealt with the Jimmy 305 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,200 Butler stuff in the modern era, and we have all these these rumors that 306 00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:52,079 sort of sprinkle out at the same time. I almost wish that we have. 307 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,039 I'm not really a nostalgic person. I'm not an old school guy. 308 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,720 I don't meant the basketball isn't that basketball now isn't what it was then. 309 00:21:00,759 --> 00:21:04,680 I actually think that today's players are probably more talented than any generation we've seen. 310 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:10,279 But I really would love to see more of these these insightful quotes. 311 00:21:10,319 --> 00:21:11,960 And I don't think it's necessarily the player's fault. They're more guarded now because 312 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,240 of social media, and then they're just were saturated. They're saturated by media 313 00:21:17,279 --> 00:21:21,240 members like myself. It's just it's part of the job description now, and 314 00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:25,200 it seems like the Bulls were sort of starting to feel that type of pressure 315 00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:29,839 during this season because of the finality of this run together. Dennis Robins said 316 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,680 during this documentary, it's not just basketball that we have to deal with on 317 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,400 this team. It's the pressure of the bullshit. I'll play the game for 318 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:37,799 free, but you get paid for the bullshit after you leave the floor. 319 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,720 That probably still applies today. We make fun of players for them speaking about 320 00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:45,720 their love of the game or that they would do this job for free if 321 00:21:45,759 --> 00:21:48,480 they could, YadA, YadA, YadA. The money is important to everybody, 322 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,640 and maybe more important to or definitely more important to some than others. 323 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,960 But what these players just have to deal with, particularly now, the constant, 324 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:03,720 relentless, unending scrutiny. I don't necessarily admire it. I've said on 325 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,599 many occasions that I wish players didn't lean into the meme culture a little bit 326 00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:11,720 more. I don't have a problem with people captioning screenshots and photos with jokey 327 00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:17,680 terms, but when you're really criticizing a player, really getting into their value 328 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,799 as a person based off what they're doing on the basketball court. We are 329 00:22:22,079 --> 00:22:26,920 entering just it's not uncharted territory, and maybe in some instances it's not necessarily 330 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:32,960 unfair territory. But again, the world would just be relentless is every aspect 331 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,880 of their lives is on display. And this Bulls team back then seems like 332 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,599 an anomaly in that regard where it seems like that that attention was starting to 333 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:47,000 wear on them. And Michael Jordan, this is the next top I want 334 00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:51,680 to talk about. He had said that he wasn't going to come back after 335 00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:55,039 the ninety seven ninety eight season to play for anyone except Phil Jackson, and 336 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,880 meanwhile you had Jerry Krauss saying that Phil Jackson was absolutely going to be done 337 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,559 after that year. Jordan was being asked about his future basically at every stop. 338 00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:07,960 He even mentioned to the reporters it's not the home beat writers that he 339 00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:11,359 was necessarily worried about answering to, it's it's the road scrums, because they 340 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,759 had to ask him the same question over and over again every time he traveled. 341 00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:18,960 And I understand both sides. I could understand Jordan getting frustrated with it. 342 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,759 I could also understand the questions being asked because that is a reporter's job. 343 00:23:22,759 --> 00:23:26,160 A media member's job is they have to ask the questions that they know 344 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:32,799 the readers the fans are going to care about. And I found most interesting 345 00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:37,519 the way that Jordan was willing to entertain those questions. He kept giving the 346 00:23:37,559 --> 00:23:41,920 same answers about how essentially he didn't want to talk about it, or just 347 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,519 re iterating what he had sel ready that he wouldn't play for anyone except Phil 348 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,920 Jackson. But you kind of neutralize the interest in that effect is that you're 349 00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:53,359 entertaining the questions and you're not making a big deal. I think Kevin Durant 350 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,200 probably could have still took a page out of Jordan's book when we're looking at 351 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,000 all the questions he faced during the twenty eight twenty nineteen season about his future 352 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,920 with the Warriors. I totally understand that these questions can get grading, but 353 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,720 Jordan was really justice media savant. Do you look at just the way he 354 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,720 complimented his teammates, namely Scottie Pippen, and then even the stuff he says 355 00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:18,000 now about Dennis Rodman. Just really knew how to work the room in that 356 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,000 regard, and I think that It's something that current players could probably stand to 357 00:24:22,079 --> 00:24:26,160 learn from if they know, if they're a superstar and they know they're going 358 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,000 to get all these questions labbed their way about impending free agency. You don't 359 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,559 have to be necessarily hostile about it. You can just shut it down by 360 00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:36,799 saying I've already commented on it, and my thoughts on it, my stance, 361 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,400 my opinion, my thoughts, my motivations, they haven't changed to this 362 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,480 point, and I think that's probably the best way to handle it. I'm 363 00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:47,759 not in their shoes, though, again, so I understand that I really 364 00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:51,839 can't empathize with them to that extent. I just looking at MJ know of 365 00:24:51,839 --> 00:24:53,720 the type of player he was and how much interest there would have been in 366 00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:56,119 what he was going to do after that year, particularly long he had already 367 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,920 walked away from the game once. The fact that he was able to handle 368 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,559 those incessant, incessant questions so well, it's something that I kind of respect, 369 00:25:04,759 --> 00:25:08,920 and again, I think it provides a blueprint for how today's free agents, 370 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:14,119 particularly the big name ones, can carry themselves when they're dealing with all 371 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,480 those types of inquiries into their future. I wanted to also talk about the 372 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,559 Jerry Kraft's element of all this. There wasn't as much focus on him in 373 00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:26,200 episodes three and four as there was in one and two, where I wouldn't 374 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,240 really even stop short of saying the bulls or that he was throwing an their 375 00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:33,680 bus for the finality of this ninety seven ninety eight season, and you could 376 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,759 see that Jordan was visibly frustrated with him during those episodes, given the clips 377 00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:41,759 of the comments that he threw Jerry Kraft's way. There is two sides every 378 00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:45,440 story. Jerry Kraft is not alive right now to tell his but in this 379 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,039 in these two sites, these two episodes, he came out at the All 380 00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:52,799 Star break just reiterating that Phil Jackson wouldn't be back, and while they would 381 00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:55,200 love to have Michael Jordan back, he's gonna have to come to terms with 382 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,240 Phil Jackson not being there. To talk about just throwing gasoline on the fire 383 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,000 probably just not the smartest thing to say in that regard, And we don't 384 00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:07,799 really have front office executives basketball operations. Guy's coming out in public and saying 385 00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:12,960 that anymore. It's it's again. I just want to reiterate the discrepancy between 386 00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:18,640 what players and basketball members are willing to say on record to the public compared 387 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,240 to what they're willing to say now we might have more access. I honestly 388 00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:26,160 don't know if we have more insight though, or if we have more access 389 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,960 to the truth, just because it seems like I mean, kudos to the 390 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,039 players for a lot of them becoming media experts and they know how to talk 391 00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:37,359 their way around questions. I just appreciate this. I'm sure was at times 392 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,000 detrimental candor what I was reminded of, though Jerry Cross was not always this 393 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:47,680 villainous figure. They showed clips of the team celebrating their for their first title 394 00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:52,160 nineteen ninety and Scotty Jerry Cross is on the plane dancing and Scottie Pippen. 395 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,279 He and him seem to have a really good rapport. And so it's just 396 00:26:55,279 --> 00:26:56,400 as the years went on, there are a lot of things that built up. 397 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,000 You look at Scottie Pippen's contract that was a focus of episodes one and 398 00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:04,160 two as well. You look at him trying to push Phil Jackson out on 399 00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:08,720 multiple occasions, the reaction that that got from from Michael Jordan, and then 400 00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:15,000 combined with just the open ended nature of how ninety seven ninety eight was going 401 00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:19,559 to be this course final year. That really seemed to damage not just the 402 00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:25,079 whatever poor relationship he might have had with the players, with the coaches, 403 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,359 but just his legacy in Chicago in general, because he did do a lot 404 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,640 of good for the Bulls and he was known as this really scouting expert. 405 00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:37,000 There's just that's going to be lost to history, to the anecdotes that are 406 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,200 gleamed from this documentary, but the events that led up to the Bulls dissolution 407 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,079 in general? Is that fair? Is it unfair? I honestly don't know. 408 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,240 The jokes are going to be made. I'm probably going to make a 409 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,240 few of them myself, but it does to me, it does suck that 410 00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:56,240 this wasn't released when Jerry Krafts is still I've just to at least get his 411 00:27:56,559 --> 00:27:57,839 side of the story. I'm not trying to take sides here or whatever, 412 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,799 but I'm a big fan of the two sided context. I'm also a big 413 00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:04,799 fan of the jokes, so you can keep those coming. I do think 414 00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:08,720 there's a clear separation there where you can joke about it Pippin's contract and Pippin's 415 00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:12,680 agent without necessarily ignoring the truth that, yeah, his agent and Pult's ownership 416 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,079 didn't want Pippin to sign that seven year, eighteen million dollars deal either, 417 00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:18,359 And then I think you can make those jokes without annoying the fact that, 418 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:25,720 given Pippin's life background, him coming from such poverty, that he really wanted 419 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,079 that financial security that came with the seven year, eighteen million dollars deal. 420 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:30,799 I don't think you can fault him for signing it. I also don't think 421 00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,880 you could fault him for becoming frustrated that he became so overpaid. Sticking with 422 00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:38,680 episodes three and four of though since that was just a little bit of a 423 00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:44,279 real turn black episodes one and two what I think other people kind of forgot, 424 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,400 or at least I forgot. I'm not trying to loop everyone into my 425 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,440 own thoughts. Episodes Blew and Forward dealt with Phil Jackson starting out with the 426 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,440 Bulls and then working his way up to head coach to succeed Doug Collins, 427 00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:00,480 and how Michael Jordan wasn't even really this huge supporter of Phil Jackson at first, 428 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,920 how skeptical he was of the Triangle offense because it was taking the ball 429 00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:11,160 out of his hands. Phil Jackson just bluntly saying to Michael Jordan, I 430 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,000 don't anticipate you leading the league and scoring anymore in this system. And it 431 00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:18,559 did seem that there was some pushback from from Jordan, but you got to 432 00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:22,200 a point where he really bought in and he was starting to trust his teammates. 433 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,759 That's something that the documentary touches on too, is he was certainly demanding. 434 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,759 And we've seen those clips too, and we've just known those stories as 435 00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:34,200 well. They bore on myth now and how cruel he could have been or 436 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,079 how hard he was on certain teammates, but there was that willingness to trust. 437 00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:42,200 There was something that stands out to me is in one of these episodes, 438 00:29:44,119 --> 00:29:47,599 Phil Jackson tells him that he needs to pass the ball to John Packson 439 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,759 after a play where he didn't really see him or saw him and decided to 440 00:29:49,759 --> 00:29:53,720 take a contested shot. Jordan then on the next instance where he has the 441 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,359 opportunity to pass to Packson, he does. Packson makes the shot and that 442 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,119 sort of just builds his trust. And you even talk about Steve Kerr that 443 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,599 way, the passes that he's he threw to him as well, Jordan did 444 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,319 have this level of trust and appreciation for his teammates, regardless of how hard 445 00:30:07,359 --> 00:30:11,920 he was on them at stages, and this provided a nice window into how 446 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:17,440 that trust was formed, because it does seem like Jordan was skeptical on money, 447 00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:21,279 if not every level to begin with when Phil Jackson came in, because 448 00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:22,839 he was so used to having the ball in his hands and having the game 449 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:29,000 catered to his isolations, and to see that relationship eventually he forged with Phil 450 00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:33,599 Jackson's where you go from when Phil start out, Jordan missus Doug Collins, 451 00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:37,920 Jordan doesn't really support him on to fast over the ninety seven ninety eight season, 452 00:30:38,119 --> 00:30:41,119 He's saying he won't come back. He's going to retire if Phil Jackson 453 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,960 doesn't come back. That was that was absolutely incredible to sort of see those 454 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,480 stages from my end. One of the final things I want to talk about 455 00:30:49,559 --> 00:30:56,519 too, Dennis Rodman leaving in the middle of a bull season for a vacation 456 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,880 and how open that just was just open knowledge. It was because you imagine 457 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,640 someone doing that today, you know, Derek Rose going a wall from the 458 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,400 Nicks. It's a little bit different because it wasn't for as long and again 459 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,319 it was a wall. Denis Robin straight up pulled Phil Jackson in the middle 460 00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:15,160 of the nineteen seveninety eight season that he needed a vacation. I so respect 461 00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:21,119 that he ends up going to Vegas and we get all these cool anecdotes from 462 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,559 from that moment. Michael Jordan had told Phil Jackson that if he let this 463 00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:29,359 is what he said. He goes, I'm looking at Phil and I like, 464 00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:30,839 you ain't gonna get that dude back in forty eight hours. I don't 465 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,839 care what you say. He's done. That was MJ's reaction to Phil Jackson 466 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,200 giving Dennis Robin a forty eight hour vacation in Vegas. Denis Robin, of 467 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,640 course, did not come back on time, at least the bulls Jordan says. 468 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,400 They actually had to go get him, and Jordan says, we had 469 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,400 to go get his ass out of bed. I'm not gonna say what's in 470 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,559 his bed or where he was. Robin was also dating Calma Electra at the 471 00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:55,440 time, and she was apparently there when Jordan showed up and she said, 472 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,000 there's a knock on the door. It's Michael Jordan, and I hid. 473 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,119 I didn't want him to see me like that. I'm just like hiding behind 474 00:32:02,119 --> 00:32:07,400 the couch with covers over me. Just absolutely wild, just a wild story 475 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:13,200 that this was happening again so openly to one of the best teams in NBA 476 00:32:13,319 --> 00:32:15,799 history, to a squad that's going for a three peat, that Dennis Rodman 477 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:22,519 leaves for a team approved that first so radical in Vegas, and then it 478 00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:25,079 ends up that he does sort of go a wall. He's away from the 479 00:32:25,119 --> 00:32:30,799 bulls without permission, and they physically have to go get him crazy, crazy 480 00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:36,000 times. And I couldn't imagine what would if that happened today, just because 481 00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:39,160 of social media, and then how players really couldn't get their privacy, you 482 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,960 know, Carmen, and let your talk about how much Dennis liked the party 483 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,599 where you go to club after club after club after hours club. You can't 484 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,440 really do that today because there's always gonna be videos posted on social media from 485 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,400 people who recognize NBA fans there. It was really just almost a different life 486 00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:59,880 for these guys. What I will say about Dennis Rodman, I really were 487 00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:06,640 expected the way that this documentary got into these episodes about how much of a 488 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,240 transition it was for him to all of a sudden be in an essence, 489 00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:14,240 Michael Jordan's number two while Scottie Pippen was out dealing with his injury, recovering 490 00:33:14,279 --> 00:33:16,920 from his injury, with the whole trade demand stuff going on, he had 491 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,319 to be as mj put it on the straight and Darrow, and that was 492 00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:24,680 something that he needed to learn and he really ended up getting Jordan what he 493 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,640 needed during that stretch. But then Scottie Pippen came back and that was another 494 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,200 adjustment for Dennis Rodman. This documentary also addressed how Rodman was also sort of 495 00:33:32,279 --> 00:33:36,920 down after that, and Rodman mentioned how he went back to being the third 496 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,039 wheel. Yeah, they were the three most important players on the team, 497 00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:44,960 but there was that relationship, that chemistry, that shared importance between Scottie Pippen 498 00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:50,440 and Michael Jordan that Dennis Rodman wasn't really entirely a part of, and he 499 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,279 felt the effects of that. It's another instance of athletes are human and Dennis 500 00:33:54,319 --> 00:33:59,440 Rodman his past again, I'll point you back to I've certainly read about it, 501 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,839 but I'll point the thirty for thirty documentary Just a Tough just a tough 502 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,880 life and sort of how that stuck with him a little bit or a lot 503 00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:13,039 geting into his NBA career, and then how he wasn't really able to find 504 00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:17,679 this full fledged home until he ended up with Chicago, and everyone mentions how 505 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,719 the Bulls and Jordan and Pippen and Phil Jackson accepted him for what he was. 506 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,599 The incident that they talk about where he's holding a gun when he's with 507 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,400 the Pistons late at night and they find him, and then all of a 508 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,920 sudden that offseason he's gone from the Pistons. That's really sad too, because 509 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,599 it infers that these teams didn't have an obligation to players, and I don't 510 00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:45,639 mental health was clearly not a focus as much of a focus back then as 511 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:50,360 it is now, and you sort of that's something that you can lament. 512 00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:57,639 Is would today's NBA, today's public conscience be more accepting of Dennis Rodman from 513 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,840 from the get go, where he doesn't have to go to the Bulls to 514 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:04,519 be really appreciated by by his own it was even really ever fully appreciated. 515 00:35:04,639 --> 00:35:10,320 There just so many things that I find interesting when when you're really looking at 516 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,199 Robman just through that lens, and I thought it was great to see him 517 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,320 get basically an entire episode, and then there was a little bit of focusing 518 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:21,440 episode for about that trip to Vegas. I really liked seeing all that there 519 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:22,639 are going to be some of those stories again that stand out, like Michael 520 00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:28,559 Jordan having a knock on his door where wherever he was. But I really, 521 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,239 I really just enjoyed just everything from it. When you're seeing how Gary 522 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,360 Payton, how much he respected him, how much Jordan respect him, calling 523 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,039 him one of the smartest players, he are, smartest teammates he he ever 524 00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:43,679 had, even Phil Jackson's just reaction to Dennis Roman. There did seem to 525 00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:46,480 be that nurturing from Phil Jackson there. And I think my favorite part though, 526 00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:52,280 too, was so once Rodman comes back from his Vegas hiatus, whatever 527 00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:54,400 you want to call it, the Bulls wanted to focus on getting him in 528 00:35:54,440 --> 00:36:00,039 shape. So they ran this drill where the whole team had a jog and 529 00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:01,320 that the player from the back of line would end up having to be at 530 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,639 the front of the line, and Michael Jordan essentially instructed the team that who's 531 00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:08,159 ever at the front has to run slow because he didn't want to be punished 532 00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:12,840 for Dennis Rodman's lack of conditioning. Except that when they started the drill, 533 00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:15,480 Dennis Rodman's going harder than anyone else that he just needed to get away, 534 00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:20,840 came back and it was just fully focused Dennis Rodman Man. Just I wish 535 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,239 I was old enough to remember watching Prime Dennis Rodman again. Go back and 536 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:30,320 watch those clips. Just hustle, unending, personified, incredible. The last 537 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,039 and final if I want to talk about, is they did really go into 538 00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:39,239 Michael Jordan's shot on Craig Elo. My favorite thing about that was Jordan of 539 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:45,840 today sort of addressing that Elo shot. He was one mad that Ron Harper 540 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,719 wasn't put on him during those moments that Ron Harper was pissed that the Calves 541 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,360 didn't put him on Jordan, and then so afterwards Jordan hits it and his 542 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,199 reaction to it, this is President day Jordan. He's basically like, he 543 00:36:58,199 --> 00:37:00,440 said, get the fuck out here, go go the fuck anywhere, but 544 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,159 you're out of here. Who's ever not with us? All you fuckers go 545 00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:07,800 to hell? And that was really him just remembering how the writers, even 546 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:12,960 Bulls Beat writers had written Chicago Law during that time, and he was just 547 00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:16,880 ecstatic to win that series. I love that we're sort of getting this is 548 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:22,360 Michael Jordan, older Michael Jordan, owner of the Charlotte Hornets, just being 549 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,159 able to go back to those days and having that recall and just saying, 550 00:37:24,639 --> 00:37:28,239 who's ever not with us? All all you fuckers go to hell. I 551 00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:34,400 love that type of that hyperbolic reaction. I'm absolutely positively here for it and 552 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,719 the ego shot. It's funny that it's so synonymous with Jordan's legacy because it's 553 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:45,880 like it didn't come during one of his championship seasons and it's not something that 554 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,960 pushed the Bulls to the finals or anything that pointed. Yeah, it's certainly 555 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,840 one of the most iconic shots in NBA history, but I do feel like 556 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,039 it sometimes gets more shine than that final shot that he had on Russell. 557 00:37:59,079 --> 00:38:02,880 Maybe I'm actually there. Perhaps I'm living too much in past moments since we're 558 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,920 looking at this documentary, But I love hearing present day Jordan now comments on 559 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:13,480 looking back at these moments. And I've particularly just enjoyed all the Dennis Rodman 560 00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:17,199 stuff through through this episode. If I hope you enjoyed this solo episode, 561 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,400 by the way, I hope it wasn't too recappy. I hope there was 562 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,360 just some analysis that you appreciate it. If there's something you want to see 563 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,920 us do differently, maybe you want us to hold a mailbag about the last 564 00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:32,239 ADS documentary as we published them weekly, we could try that. Shout me 565 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,519 out on Twitter. Let let me know at Hardware Knocks or at dan Valley 566 00:38:36,599 --> 00:38:40,639 Fall. Once again, just want to remind implore you to rate, review 567 00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:44,840 and subscribe to us on iTunes. Overall, ever else you're getting your podcast, 568 00:38:45,159 --> 00:38:47,400 Still trying to grow this community, still trying to publish regular content. 569 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,280 I believe we'll have three pods for you this week, so hopefully we appreciate 570 00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:57,679 the episodes that we're continuing to publish. And until next time, I leave 571 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,079 you with the shout out too. Who else but Dennis Robin