WEBVTT

1
00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:12.119
Hello, and welcome to this episode
of Superhero Ethics. Friends. This is

2
00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:17.199
the three hundredth episode of Superhero Ethics. I had totally lost count because we'd

3
00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:20.679
counted in a couple different ways,
in a couple different ways that made no

4
00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:25.559
sense. But I am so happy
to be here because we're talking about a

5
00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:29.719
topic that's been like throughout the very
beginnings. One of our first episodes was

6
00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:34.159
about is Magneto Wright. Now we're
continuing in conversations like that, talking about

7
00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:38.039
X Men ninety seven with a great
group of people. As always, I

8
00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:42.240
have my co host, Riki Hayashi, but we're joined by two people from

9
00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:47.039
what was quickly becoming one of my
other favorite podcasts, Will Freeland and Steve

10
00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:52.079
Storman from the Hype is My Superpower
podcast. These folks are reading every Marvel

11
00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:55.240
comic book so that you don't have
to, or you can if you want

12
00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:58.640
to. Still, but as I've
said before, they do a great job

13
00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:00.479
of summarizing them, and a lot
of times we're talking with them about,

14
00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.879
Okay, well what is this story
like on the page? And today we're

15
00:01:03.879 --> 00:01:07.480
getting to bring them back to talk
about what it's like on screen. This

16
00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:11.439
is not the first time we're gonna
have them on. We're probably gonna have

17
00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:15.680
them on again to talk specifically about
the Gianosha sorry Jenosha plotline. I said

18
00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:19.200
that mostly to get Will to make
that expression. I'll put that into TikTok.

19
00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:23.799
But there's so much about the show
that I want all four of us

20
00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:26.120
to get to dive into. But
let me just kind of start by letting

21
00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:29.359
you guys, you know, scream
like little girls for a little second.

22
00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:32.359
Let me just start by letting you
guys scream like little kids for a little

23
00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:36.480
bit. Will, what did you
think of the show? Oh? Man,

24
00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:41.239
I had a girl? Okay,
well, thank you for having me.

25
00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:46.120
First off, Yeah, thank you, assuming you survived the episode.

26
00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:53.359
But but that's very x Men.
Yeah, it's very x Men to welcome

27
00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:59.799
a new student and say welcome to
the X Men. The experience so so

28
00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:02.959
that was aptly timed. But I
had a great time with X ninety seven.

29
00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:07.560
I will say I think episode ten
might be like bottom three as far

30
00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:16.599
as emotions that I felt watching the
episodes. But like every episode either gave

31
00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:28.680
me chills and or I teared up
and or cried like this was I don't

32
00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:32.479
feel like they ever slowed down like
the slowest they went was like the Life

33
00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:38.479
Death episode or maybe the Motendo episode. But like, yeah, but they

34
00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:44.560
still hit hard, like they say, they pulled everything. It was so

35
00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:50.120
much fun. But yeah, I
you know, just it took Let's see,

36
00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.879
it's ten episodes over nine weeks.
It took me nine weeks to get

37
00:02:53.919 --> 00:03:00.800
Steve to watch. Yeah, finally, literally and Will show in one sitting

38
00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.759
last night from like eight pm to
one am. I'm going to take credit

39
00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:09.120
for getting Steve to watch. That
was all I know. All I need

40
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:13.319
is a deadline. Will's like,
you should watch this, and I'm like,

41
00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:15.759
yes, I should. I will, but you know, it could

42
00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:20.400
happen at any time, And Matthew, You're like, hey, we're recording

43
00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:23.560
you know, tomorrow on Thursday.
And I'm like, okay, now I

44
00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:28.960
have a deadline. Now, now
I can bound my time. Uh yeah.

45
00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:34.840
Best X Men adaptation ever, Uh, I think, I think so.

46
00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.520
I wish it could have slowed down
a little bit. There were a

47
00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:46.360
lot of character arcs. Everyone except
for Wolverine had a character arc, which

48
00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:53.039
I find fascinating considering how focused the
show. You know, every adaptation has

49
00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:58.039
been on Wolverine. Otherwise, maybe
morph didn't really have much of an arc,

50
00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:01.800
but more you know, interesting thing
going on, which they did.

51
00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:06.800
Yeah, yeah, they definitely did. But it was you know, there

52
00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:11.879
were moments in pieces whereas you know, you can point to like Storm and

53
00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:15.000
say, well, this is the
long arc or Jean or Scott. They

54
00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.839
all have these like long arcs that
take them through the whole season in a

55
00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:26.600
way that has is very x men. It's always been about large ensemble casts,

56
00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:32.600
ensemble casts and and sort of long, slow burned character arcs that pull

57
00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:39.600
them through. So I was I
was absolutely stoked with the way that they

58
00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:44.800
loved and paid attention to their characters
in this I wish we had a little

59
00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:49.560
more time to get a little more
granular with it and and and have them

60
00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:57.759
struggle through their arcs a little bit
more, but yeah, it was absolute

61
00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:01.199
home run makes sense and Rinki for
yourself now that you've seen the last episode,

62
00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:03.480
which you hadn't seen the last time
we talked about it, which kind

63
00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:09.079
of your overall thoughts in the show, I think I agree with Will that

64
00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:13.399
the finale, I mean, it's
a letdown because so much of what was

65
00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:15.240
going on in the show was great. It was still a good episode,

66
00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:19.920
but yeah, like the highlight for
me has got to be kind of the

67
00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.319
mid season finale. I mean it
was a short season, right, but

68
00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:30.279
the Remember Me the Gambit Genosha episode
was just like, on every single level,

69
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:35.759
like such a good episode of television. It's hard to match that when

70
00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:39.560
you do that in the middle of
the season for the finale to match,

71
00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.040
especially because of the way TV shows
are structured and what a finale needs to

72
00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.560
do, like wrap up as much
as it can and also you know,

73
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.040
kind of hint at and set up
future stuff in this case, like a

74
00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:55.959
next season. So yeah, like
the finale did what it needed to do,

75
00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:00.040
but it didn't hit on all the
levels that I would have won I

76
00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:01.759
wanted it too, But that's fine, Like it didn't. I don't think

77
00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:05.399
it needed to do all that.
That makes sense. Well, And like

78
00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:08.680
I said, we're not here to
do a review, but I want to

79
00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:12.519
start back just kind of set the
context for all this. I definitely think

80
00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:14.600
will and see if. I hope
you guys are going to do more of

81
00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:17.000
a straight up review on your podcast, and certainly happy to volunteer myself as

82
00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:19.959
a guest for that. But I
want to talk about some of the issues

83
00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:24.600
that the show brings up because part
of why we've been talking about the X

84
00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:27.759
Men on this podcast and the very
beginning is it's always been one of the

85
00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:31.000
comic book stories that really does a
great job of not just making it you

86
00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:35.480
know, good guys, good,
bad guys bad and let's punch each other,

87
00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.720
but really raising some interesting questions.
Well, I'm gonna keep my editorial

88
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:46.120
comments about how well this season did
that to myself. But moving on the

89
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.040
first question I want to jump into, and we're going to ask you too

90
00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:51.079
about the kind of question Wreeky and
I really wrestled with last time towards the

91
00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:54.120
end. But I want to start
with a question that we didn't get a

92
00:06:54.199 --> 00:07:00.480
chance to talk about, which is
this idea that superheroes can retire, Because

93
00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:04.199
at the start of the season,
I was really excited by the idea that

94
00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:10.319
Steve and Jean Gray we're gonna get
to say, Look, we're I say,

95
00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:14.720
see sorry, Scott Cyclops cop Boy. I'll call him Copboy, a

96
00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:19.720
cab X man. That that Cyclops
and Jean Gray we're gonna get to basically

97
00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:23.639
kind of take a sabbatical for a
while, if not a full on retirement,

98
00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:29.319
and you know, raise their kid, And to me, this is

99
00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:33.560
such an important issue because it's one
that you know, I of course always

100
00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:38.600
care about superheroes for the fun stories, but also for the stories of how

101
00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:42.519
they affect us in the real world, and no one that I know about

102
00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:46.120
how superpowers. I mean, your
hype is pretty frickin' awesome, but as

103
00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:50.279
far as it doesn't come from the
sun or an ex gene. As someone

104
00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:55.680
who's worked in the activist field most
of my life, the single biggest thing

105
00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:59.279
that wipes out activists is burnout and
is the like, you know, you

106
00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.879
never take a care you never take
a day off because the fight always needs

107
00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:07.600
you, and it's something I see
recognized in heroes all the time. And

108
00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:09.600
so I'm curious, like, how
do you all think about this storyline of

109
00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:13.759
it was presented as them wanting as
them kind of wanting this, but also

110
00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:16.759
refects kind of pushing them into it, and then by the end they don't

111
00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.639
really get to take it. How
did you feel about how the storyline was

112
00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:28.720
played out? First of all,
I can absolutely empathize with the experience of

113
00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:33.759
activists burnout. I think I personally
reached terminal burnout. I can almost pinpoint

114
00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:39.159
the day in twenty ten, and
I've just been kind of grinding myself pasted

115
00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:50.279
it ever since. And so the
idea of superheroes retiring is specifically Scott and

116
00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.000
Gene, has been something that they've
tried to do a million times. And

117
00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.320
this was in the comics, I
should say, And just to give a

118
00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.559
little background, I know we're not
talking about the comics, but I think

119
00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:09.240
it gives a little an interesting sort
of It was the original intention of Chris

120
00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:16.120
Claremont, the writer of the X
Men comics from nineteen seventy five to nineteen

121
00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.039
ninety one, really transforming that comic
from being on the brink of cancelation to

122
00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:28.759
the biggest thing in comic books and
pop culture. And it was his intention

123
00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:35.360
to retire characters permanently, you know. And so after Jean Gray died during

124
00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:43.000
the Phoenix storyline, Scott met Madeline
Pryor, who was not initially intended to

125
00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:48.879
be Jean's clone, and they were
going to go live in Alaska, and

126
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.519
you know, maybe he'd come in
for a storyline or something, but he

127
00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:54.879
would be basically retired as a character, and they would move along. This

128
00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:01.600
is not the way that the publishing
industry, for Superheroes operates. You cannot

129
00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:09.360
let an idea die once you have
an intellectual property that is resonating with people

130
00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:13.440
for whatever reason. And it's really
unfortunate for Scott in particularly because his arc

131
00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:18.639
is so much about family, and
the show touches on this really well.

132
00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:24.200
I think feeling abandoned by his parents, growing up an orphan and growing up

133
00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:31.519
in orphanages and being abused in orphanages
and family is so important to him,

134
00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:35.200
wanting a fresh start, needing a
fresh start, needing this sort of connection,

135
00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:41.639
and finding this as his ultimate way
to be a better person. But

136
00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:50.600
yeah, and that's why it's specifically
interesting to view this through the lens of

137
00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:56.399
Scott and Gene, because the stakes
aren't higher for anybody else to be a

138
00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:01.360
good parent and to make that the
sense of their life. And yet his

139
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:07.759
responsibilities too, Like you said,
the movement always pull him back in.

140
00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:15.759
I have a specific quote from Claremont
pulled up here where he's talking about the

141
00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:18.080
Madeline prior storyline says Scott was going
to move on, Jeane was dead,

142
00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.919
get on with your life, and
it was close to a happy ending.

143
00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.639
Then unfortunately Gene was resurrected. Scott
Dumps's wife and kids and goes back to

144
00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:31.960
the old girlfriend and like it was
not his decision to do the second part.

145
00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:37.159
And it's really a shame because I
agree like X Men to me,

146
00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:43.120
is most exciting when it's like a
rotating cast. And like so much of

147
00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:48.399
the especially like the visual media,
has been focused on the psycholopics X Men,

148
00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:50.960
but in the comics, like you, you keep moving on and on

149
00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:54.960
and you have different teams, like
much more so than the Avengers, I

150
00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.960
feel, absolutely. And it's also
it goes back to sort of the original

151
00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:03.440
utopian vision of what the X Men
are. If we sort of like,

152
00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:11.799
uh, accept the integration integrationist vision
of Charles Xavier, then at some point

153
00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:18.399
you have to actually freaking integrate and
you have to retire. You have to

154
00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:24.399
stop being superheroes or paramilitary activists or
whatever you call it and go get a

155
00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:28.399
job. And I want to see
Jean Gray as a public school teacher.

156
00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.559
I want to see uh, you
know, Scott, I don't know.

157
00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:39.440
He probably he wouldn't make a he'd
I think, like, you know,

158
00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:43.639
security or something like, let's be
real, he's he's he's not quite a

159
00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:48.679
cop, but he can't take himself
out of or he would be like management

160
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:54.799
of some sort, right, like
he's he's uh, yeah, your manager

161
00:12:54.039 --> 00:13:01.639
would be hilarious. But yeah,
like I I want to see them get

162
00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.000
jobs. I want to see them
actually integrate. And it's a real tragedy

163
00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:11.639
of like a contradiction of the way
that we do IP and the way that

164
00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:18.799
you know, big companies hold on
to characters forever that they're never able to

165
00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:28.919
actually fulfill this core part of their
own the moral arc of the X Men,

166
00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.639
right. I mean, it's the
same way you'll never see Batman actually

167
00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:37.399
fix the city and government and police
department of Gotham to the point that he

168
00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:43.320
can go back to being Bruce Wayne
somewhere. Sure, and he'll never age,

169
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:46.519
even though every Channity adopts does.
And I think you make a really

170
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:50.519
good point there about the kind of
what that storytelling does, because I started

171
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.960
with a burnout of activists because that's
kind of where I've seen it most prevalently.

172
00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:58.799
But I think this is true with
everything. This is true with the

173
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:05.639
person whose parent is sick, and
like you know, there're sibling might say

174
00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:07.639
like, look, go take a
vacation. I'll take care of mom for

175
00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:09.840
a week or two, but it's
hard for them. The person who your

176
00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:13.720
boss isn't hiring enough people, and
so you take it upon yourself to like,

177
00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.799
we have to help keep you know, make sure that the cook doesn't

178
00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.240
have a bad time because we're not
here, because you can't ever take that

179
00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:24.240
break for yourself. And it's interesing
because you kind of started getting into the

180
00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:28.639
second that I think is very related, which the idea of like individual versus

181
00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:31.559
ensemble stories. And I think that
that's very linked because I think that there's

182
00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:39.080
a a topic that we've talked about
on this podcast before is that you know,

183
00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.240
the great Man of History idea,
the like you know, one person

184
00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:45.799
can come along or one small team
of four or five people can come along

185
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:50.080
and they can fix the world.
That's not actually really how the world works

186
00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:52.480
a lot of the time, and
it's kind of a dangerous idea and to

187
00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.960
be pushing that all the time.
But as you said, also a story

188
00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:01.440
about one hundred x men, like
I think Justice League kind of pulled it

189
00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:03.279
off, and I think uh Star
Wars the Clone Wars kind of pulled it

190
00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:09.480
off. But it's a very difficult
thing to do, and I never expected

191
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:15.879
that they would take Scott and Jean
Gray totally off the field. But I

192
00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:18.200
think I would have liked it a
lot more if there had been they had

193
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:22.200
really gotten to allow themselves to retire, you know, and for the first

194
00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.039
couple episodes they were not really part
of it, and then like the stuff

195
00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:30.000
with their baby and like what happened
with it and how it all ties into

196
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.440
a larger story it, you know, if it had been a kind of

197
00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:35.919
like, yes, events pulled them
back in, but the general attitude of

198
00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.840
the X Men had been not oh, you're abandoning us, but just you

199
00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:41.799
did your part, you fought the
fight. Now it's time for new people

200
00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:48.919
to step up. Yeah, Wolverine
really dropped the ball there. Unfortunately,

201
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:54.879
with the way that X Men the
animated series left the storyline like they what

202
00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.360
they did with the Matteline Prior stuff
in this series was okay, but it

203
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:03.960
didn't It didn't allow for that because
they, as Steve said, Madeline in

204
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:08.159
the comics is a actual like distinct
different person. When we meet her,

205
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.000
like she's Madeline Prior, it's like, oh, but you look like Jane

206
00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.960
Gray, and I think she actually
like slaps Scott when he suggests that gets

207
00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:21.639
mad about it. So yeah,
like that it would have been cool to

208
00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:25.399
see that play out and have Scott, as you say, off the board

209
00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.519
for like even a whole season and
then at the end, like you know,

210
00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:34.120
stuff happens. And when we were
talking about like do activists do soldiers

211
00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:37.399
get to retire, like I was
thinking of john Wick, you know,

212
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.600
he's the retired hit man, and
having like a john Wick style return for

213
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:47.759
Cyclops where he's like, I guess
I'm back and like digs up his old

214
00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:52.279
visor like that would have been really
cool for me and like a good way

215
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.039
to have him off for a while
and be happy. But yeah, like

216
00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:00.799
people want to see their favorites come
back, right, Yeah, I want

217
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:11.359
to see that Cyclops. Yeah,
oh god, no, reality he has

218
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:18.200
never had dead fond Cyclops. You
can't call him slim anymore. Yeah.

219
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:25.160
It also war he uses his powers
in such cool and inventive ways in in

220
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:32.039
uh oh they did it. They
finally were like, it's not just like

221
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:37.680
a laser beam. Yeah, it's
conclussive. It's just it's force. It's

222
00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.680
not it's not I I found like, it's not that I found him more

223
00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.519
interesting in this than I found him
other things. It's that I found him

224
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:48.640
interesting for the first time, which
is a really compared to everything accomplishment.

225
00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:53.200
Yeah, everyone has that. Everyone
gets that moment at some point, the

226
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.319
moment where he's giving that interview with
Trish Tilbey and he snaps. He said,

227
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.880
like here there's this break between the
things that he can talk about in

228
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:06.480
public and the things he can and
the resentment that he's carried along the way

229
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:08.920
from having to be this person.
And you're right, it's such a burnout

230
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:15.839
moment and it's such a burden moment. And and these are things, you

231
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:18.440
know, ideas that have been clearly
with him this whole time. And also

232
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:25.880
like he's been influenced by Magneto,
like this when you talk about the age

233
00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:30.079
old ethical sort of like quandary that
has been done to death between Xavier and

234
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:37.000
Magneto, Like Magneto is having his
influence over the X Men team in certainly

235
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:41.079
for Scott. And it was explored
this way in the comics too, a

236
00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:49.680
very positive way. Right. Yeah. Yeah, aad the accomplishment that this

237
00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:55.160
show had with Cyclops, both in
making him interesting, as you say,

238
00:18:55.559 --> 00:19:02.400
but also in the three part finale, making it believable and possible that he

239
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.519
might turn his back on Charles and
go with Magneto, because that has been

240
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:10.279
a storyline in comics, and I
thought that the way they played it and

241
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.279
the speech that he gives when Charles
comes back, I was like, Oh,

242
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.000
is he about to leave? Like
are they gonna do that with him?

243
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:18.920
And it and it still could be
they could do that storyline in the

244
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:23.119
future because they've set this up for
his character that he had he has had

245
00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:29.119
this break. Yeah. I think
it's great because like so much Cyclops media

246
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:33.720
has just been boring Cyclopes just like
the good soldier to Charles and he like

247
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:40.440
never questions him, and and this
was like I love it because so much

248
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.759
has been Wolverine centric in X Men, and it's like, yeah, like

249
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.200
give us the good Cyclops or like
interesting Cyclops than yeah. And so that's

250
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:52.559
just segue to the next topic,
because though I'm sure we'll keep talking about

251
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.480
all of these, as you were
kind of saying, Ricky, I think

252
00:19:55.519 --> 00:20:00.359
one of the one of the things
they did is that we did and spend

253
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:04.720
the whole time comparing Cyclops to Wolverine. I think they mean kind of Wolverine

254
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.160
a punk in most of this and
like not in the good way. I

255
00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.799
I don't know how the writers were
just like, Okay, screw Hugh Jackman.

256
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:14.240
We're not we're making Wolverine just a
terrible character. But I really appreciated

257
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.039
that there was no love triangle between
It was just like, no, she's

258
00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:19.799
pregnant with his baby, like they
are happy together. Sorry, Wolverine,

259
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:26.160
go kick Rocks. But then like, like, I guess the Madeline prior

260
00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.720
story is kind of interesting. Although
like, to me, you gave me

261
00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.599
Spider Queen for one episode, and
I was like, I'm sorry, Goblin

262
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:37.440
Queen for an episode. And I'm
convinced that the new hot couple's cosplay should

263
00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:42.559
be Jerreff the Goblin King and Madeline
the Goblin Queen as the cross thing,

264
00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:47.319
because that, like her outfit was
just phenomenal. And after that, everything

265
00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:51.279
else was let down. But the
tone down version, Matthew, it sure

266
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:59.799
was fair enough. Yeah, I
did feral powers to keep covering over her,

267
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:06.640
keep her out legal, but google
it if you think I'm kidding.

268
00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.519
It's really ridiculous. But my question
is, so then we get that love

269
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:15.920
triangle, and we get Rogue and
uh, you know, Cajun Man and

270
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:22.119
old Man Teacher and like just all
of these love triangle why why people think

271
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.720
we need like to me it felt
like very lazy writing in terms of just

272
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.640
like here's a cliche, let's just
do it again and again and again.

273
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:36.200
I mean they're honoring the original characters
and stories to some degree, right,

274
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:41.039
Like that's these are big relationships baked
into the X men. I think the

275
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.559
problem here was that they just rushed
it or like didn't give it enough time

276
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:52.160
to breathe in the way that like
a good more romantic centric story would would

277
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.480
give these time to breathe, and
it just kind of had like a beat

278
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:56.960
here and then you have to have
a fight, So like that happened,

279
00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:02.039
right, So yeah, yeah,
I agree with that. And activists polycules

280
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:10.359
are messy and you know you moment
like I think of it, I think

281
00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:15.839
of it as like co ed high
school groups. This kind of thing happens,

282
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:21.680
but with a when you take it
from high school age to young adults

283
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.319
and then put them in life and
death situations that they lived through together,

284
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:30.640
like those kinds of passions happen.
But I also agree there's uh, there

285
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:37.119
wasn't enough time you spent on these
to really make it feel organic. But

286
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:44.000
I also also I think they could
have just saved a Magneto Rogue thing,

287
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.720
like it's a thing from the comics, but like it, it's so much

288
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.440
worse, so much that is so
much worse in the show. Yeah,

289
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:56.240
how old is she because she was
in the comics when Magneto and Rogue have

290
00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:00.160
their pairing, Grogue has been a
member of the ex Men for a while,

291
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:07.079
and uh, you know it's she's
much more grown up than like before

292
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:11.920
she meets the X Men while she's
still living with mystique her mom Like,

293
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:18.720
yeah, that's that is truly troubling. Mm hm yeah. But like so

294
00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:23.359
I think that's something that could have
if they had spent more time, because

295
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:30.519
the whole like intrigue for Rogue is
that it's somebody that she can touch,

296
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:34.920
and so like it's this like it's
this it's this drug that you can't have

297
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.759
and then someone shows up and they're
like, look, you could have this

298
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:45.480
literal part of human affection with me, and so like she can do if

299
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.400
she they gave her time to do
this like mental anguish of like I it

300
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:52.960
doesn't make sense, this doesn't work, but oh my gosh, I can

301
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:59.279
touch, Like I see that playing
out better with more time on her side,

302
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.960
but even on his side. Yeah
sure, no, no, no,

303
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.200
no, yeah, more more more
rogue internal struggle time and like figuring

304
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:12.279
out where she actually sees this play
out instead of like total of like maybe

305
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:15.400
ten minutes of five of it being
like, hey, this has happened in

306
00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:18.240
the past, and then five minutes
of her giving him kiss and being like,

307
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:21.799
well maybe that's not it, that's
not right and moving on this.

308
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:27.039
The whole thing felt really off,
particularly because like, obviously Magneto was the

309
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:30.160
one she could touch, but also
did feel like, you know, she,

310
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:34.440
like Scott, was being a lot
affected by Magneto's ideas, you know,

311
00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:37.920
and of course, like you you
talked about Scott's speech to Professor Axson.

312
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.440
I think that was a decent one, but I really loved what Rogue

313
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:45.200
had to say to him about,
you know, to Professor Axon when she

314
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.880
walks away from him and then of
course joins Magneto for a bit before the

315
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:52.559
writers decided to stop. Well I
made that point never mind, Sorry,

316
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:59.039
I'm so angry about that. But
putting that aside, so the fact that

317
00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:07.079
like and then when both Magneto and
Cajun Boy gambit when they both are they

318
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:11.960
both are believed to have died,
and she has just been like professing her

319
00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:14.559
feelings about Magneto, and all of
a sudden she's like, oh my god,

320
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:17.599
I can't believe Gambit's dead. Mag
know who, Like she doesn't have

321
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:21.720
a moment of grief about him,
And Yeah, that that just felt like

322
00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:26.480
I I hear what you're saying,
and I think love triangles do form sometimes

323
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:30.720
among teenagers or adults or you know, any adults of any age. But

324
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.559
making everything a love triangle just felt
kind of weight. It's not that it's

325
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.039
like love is this messy, It's
that that felt way too neat, you

326
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:42.920
know, Like to me, what
much more sense is like, yeah,

327
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:45.640
these people are together, but this
person is a crush on that person,

328
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:49.400
and that person's a crush and get
another person, Like if you want to

329
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:53.839
go that way, go along freaking
chain, yeah, or just maybe just

330
00:25:53.839 --> 00:26:00.680
just back off that a little bit. Yeah, I would have preferred a

331
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:07.559
more depth, deft touch on Magneto
in particular there and having him, you

332
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:11.039
know, maybe Rogue is pursuing him
and he's like, I don't know,

333
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:14.920
you're really young. This is weird. She's like, but we can touch

334
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:19.920
you know, like even though her
heart is somewhere else, I don't know.

335
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:23.880
Yeah, that could have been done
much better, and I think it

336
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:30.319
was. It was mostly done for
plot reasons, to build up gambit sacrifice

337
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:34.079
and then also her defection, and
it was less about the plot of the

338
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:38.519
romance and more about bringing those character
arcs to a specific point, which is

339
00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:49.440
unfortunate. So I liked the Magneto
Rogue Gambit trio, and I do think

340
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:53.400
it could have been given more time
or like more screen time. But in

341
00:26:53.480 --> 00:27:00.880
particular, the scene where Rogue and
Gambit in Genosha are talked like by the

342
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:06.400
fireplace, I think was like one
of the best scenes in that episode and

343
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:10.440
on the show. And they did
so much for those characters in that one

344
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:18.039
scene that I it makes me enjoy
that storyline more compared to Jean Scott and

345
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:22.920
Wolverine, Like it just felt so
off that Gene, Like I can't even

346
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:27.240
remember if those Gene or Madaline,
but one of them kisses Wolverine right when

347
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:33.880
when he gives a nice like oh, like the motivational speech, and it

348
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.160
wasn't even like a peck, It
was like a kiss on the lips,

349
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:40.440
right, And like what do you, what are you doing? You're married?

350
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:44.400
But I think Logan played that well
though, Yeah, I mean a

351
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:48.880
low point. Yeah, I don't
know. It's the type of thing you

352
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:56.799
either let go or it bugs you. I feel like it's again, it's

353
00:27:56.839 --> 00:27:59.839
something that's happened in the comics.
It's a thing that they had to sort

354
00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:06.279
of like, they had to close
definitively Logan's interest in order to make the

355
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:11.680
story more about Scott and Gene and
Madeline. And because that was such a

356
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:18.839
like ongoing part in the original show
of Wolverine's just like ongoing obsession with Gene,

357
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.200
I think they had to find a
way to close that off more or

358
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:30.559
less definitively in order to refocus those
character arcs elsewhere. And I will say

359
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.759
I thought at first it was going
to be Logan gets with Madeline in a

360
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.880
way that like, look, they
both get to be with Jean Gray,

361
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:40.720
and that would really have made me
mad. Yeah, that would have sucked.

362
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:53.200
Scott's brother ends up with Madeline.
Yeah to the rogue gambit Magneto part

363
00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:56.680
of it, though. I think
the other thing is that part of why

364
00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:03.039
these stories frustrate you sometimes is that
they always pitt as though the only thing

365
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.960
that competes with romantic love is another
romantic love. Whereas I feel like I

366
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.880
think you could have told mostly that
same story, like granted the idea of

367
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:15.599
can she touch another person or not? And how important is that? Like

368
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:18.400
that feels like you should get a
lot of attention of going to get any

369
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:22.599
attention and have you discussed it didn't
But if you're willing to pull back from

370
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:26.200
that a little bit, I think
another very real story that a lot of

371
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:33.119
people go through is loyalty towards like
a paternal mentor figure versus towards a romantic

372
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.079
interest. And you could have told
you could have made that the story of

373
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:40.160
you know, Gambit is pulling her
in one direction, Magneto is pulling her

374
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.960
in another, without ever having to
be any sense of romance between her and

375
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:45.880
Menado. But that means, you
know, it's kind of the like do

376
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:49.839
you go with more of the father
or not even fatherly but mentor figure versus

377
00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:53.359
you know, the romantic figure.
I agree with that, although I do

378
00:29:53.400 --> 00:30:00.920
think that specifically is something that's done
well in Scott's arc. He is having

379
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:07.640
to choose between kind of choosing between
Madeline and Gene, but more between you

380
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:14.599
know, like his responsibilities as a
father and towards the mother of his child

381
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:19.440
and the woman that he loves.
So I thought that was drawn out fairly

382
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:27.400
well and in a different context in
the show. That's right, Yeah,

383
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:30.559
I was. I was thinking the
same. I was like, well,

384
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:38.440
if you take the love triangle,
come feedback and put it towards the Scott

385
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:45.759
thing, you can make the exact
argument. Yeah. Yeah, again,

386
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:49.960
I think it was just all about
setting up gambit sacrifice and Rogue's turn of

387
00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:56.640
allegiance, and it was just an
unfortunate way to do that. Yeah.

388
00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:04.920
So let me then ask about Morph. Do we think that Morph is in

389
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:15.119
love with Logan with Wolverine? Mm
hmm no, not right, Like it

390
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:19.599
is a it is a plausible direction
that this character could be going. It

391
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.000
depends on like if the writers want
to go there, because obviously it would

392
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:33.880
be controversial. I think it's true. Yeah, I mean, it's it's

393
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:41.519
It's one of those It gives you
the opportunity to explore if you're a character

394
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:53.160
who can be any physical representation of
a person, does does it matter what

395
00:31:53.400 --> 00:32:00.160
you're does that even become a problem, for lack of a better term,

396
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:07.240
if if, if Logan identifies as
heterosexual, and Morph can just be a

397
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:13.880
woman for him. Yeah, I
think, just do that. Yeah,

398
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:19.119
so don't go ahead, Steve.
I mean, so we're we're really learning

399
00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:23.359
about more for the first time here. And you know, Morph appears in

400
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:28.799
just like a couple episodes in the
original show and is dead for most of

401
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:32.279
it, or presume dead for most
of it, and so you know,

402
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:38.440
they're they're a practical joker, and
they are a sort of like sarcastic wit,

403
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:45.640
and so it's hard to know exactly
how to take some of that perceived

404
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:52.160
flirtation from Morph towards Wolverine as kind
of like, you know, just ribbing

405
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:58.759
or kind of messing around versus sort
of like an expression of some unresolved feelings,

406
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:06.440
because yeah, the Wolverine is very
attached to Morph, we presume as

407
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:12.839
as a comrade or as a you
know, as a fellow soldier, as

408
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:21.359
as a colleague in the original show, and you know, is really upset

409
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:28.200
with the others for not grieving Morph
enough when they're presumed dead. So I

410
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.720
think this is again, those were
the two characters who didn't have an arc

411
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:36.119
of their own. I wonder if
there is something there that got cut because

412
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:40.160
there was so much. It's just
the show was so overstuffed. If it's

413
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:45.480
something we'll explore in season two,
yeah, I'm I'm curious to see where

414
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:52.599
they go with that. But I
think at this point it's it's they're opening

415
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:59.960
up a very interesting portrayal of gender
through morph. And yeah, when you're

416
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:07.119
or presentation is fluid, your gender
likely your gender identity likely will be too.

417
00:34:07.840 --> 00:34:12.639
And so I think that there's there's
room for this. I think they

418
00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:15.320
may have been a little bit afraid
of backlash or or they wanted to kind

419
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.840
of ease into it, you know. I think morph is only referred to

420
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:27.800
with them pronouns once in the season
that I got yeah and so yeah,

421
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:32.039
so I I you know again,
morph is an extremely new relative, despite

422
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:37.480
having been in the very first season
episode of the original show, relatively new

423
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:42.559
character in terms of somebody who were
exploring and giving a personality to and and

424
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:47.760
there is not much morph in the
original comics outside of alternate universes. So

425
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:54.840
yeah, this is this is a
We've got a lot to uncover here,

426
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.239
And I think it's unfortunate that the
plot line that goes to you and to

427
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.039
gender is the one that got cut
of the millions and millions that they uh

428
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:07.920
that they actually pursued. But at
the same time I can kind of understand,

429
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:16.880
Yeah, I'm the cynical business decision
to wait until season two. You

430
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:21.760
know, people who listened to this
show before know that I'm often very quick

431
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.280
to pick up on any possibility a
non binariess or queerness or things like that.

432
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:30.519
I completely missed all of this.
I didn't, And I think for

433
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:36.639
me it's a couple of things.
One is that so often Morphed playing around

434
00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:45.159
with presentations felt a lot like joking
around, not like trying on different identity,

435
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:50.199
because he was always copying somebody else, and I'm using he because it

436
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:58.559
felt to me like the the primary
morph identification was gendered. Sure, and

437
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:02.800
I think, like, I think
what you're saying, Steve is really true.

438
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:06.360
If they had wanted to tell that
story, they would have had to

439
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:10.039
go so much deeper, because if
I was supposed to look at more and

440
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:13.679
go, oh, yes, this
is an interesting exploration of gender, I'd

441
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:15.840
be like, Wow, this was
very clearly written by sis people and his

442
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:21.880
people only, And this is deeply
offensive because he's only ever copying other Like

443
00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:28.360
to me, he comes off much
more like the younger cousin in Kanto whose

444
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:35.079
name I can't remember, because there's
a very clear identification that this is morph

445
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:38.119
and then it's everything else is the
copy rather than him, And again maybe

446
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:42.519
it's them and that's the case.
Great, but like to me, you

447
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:45.880
had to either go much much deeper
and really wrestle with that and embrace it,

448
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:49.079
or else not touch it at all, because it is to me a

449
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:53.000
very like I would love to see
that character of a character really because of

450
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:58.000
their mutation just isn't gendered in the
way that we understand. I think Sheira,

451
00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:01.119
for example, did a version of
that that was phenomenal and so well

452
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:06.360
done, particularly because they were kind
of a villain. But like all of

453
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:08.159
the people who were like, oh
my god, that character is the worst

454
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:14.079
would gender them correctly and be like, they betrayed us, they need to

455
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:15.760
die, while like you know,
always using the right pronouns, which I

456
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:21.519
was like piece to response, Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm having like kind

457
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:23.920
of a strong reaction to it because
I just it was so off my radar

458
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:29.559
screen and maybe again it's because of
Ada Coppying, but also I think the

459
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:31.679
the way it was presented the fact
that a lot of times we met a

460
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:36.519
character who seemed like it was a
different character and then only later realized it

461
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:38.800
was Morph also kind of met that
I just wasn't thinking of the character of

462
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:45.719
those terms. Yeah, for sure. So where I think the original question

463
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:51.039
Riqui is coming from is when at
the end of the season, in the

464
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:54.519
season finale, when he turned it, or when they turned into Gene to

465
00:37:54.920 --> 00:38:01.079
tell Logan stay with me and says
like I love you, right, And

466
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:06.880
is that a moment of himing only
comforting Wolverine or is he also using it

467
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:10.119
as an opportunity to or are they
using it as oportunity to express their their

468
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:17.000
true feelings. Perhaps Yeah, I
think that is a very valid question.

469
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:27.880
The way I took that scene in
was Morph understanding Logan and what he might

470
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:35.320
need is the person that he loves, voicing the plea to keep fighting.

471
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:40.360
I think it's interesting that it's ambiguous
between those two, and I agree that

472
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:44.079
if it was going to need to
if it was going to be explored,

473
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:49.440
it needed a lot more screen time
than they were giving it. In an

474
00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:55.119
already over stuffed Susan Morph having romantic
feelings for Wolverine and Morph being possibly like

475
00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:59.840
nonsensegendered in some way. Those are
two separate things, then we don't have

476
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:02.599
to both of them totally enterating though
here and again here. This may be

477
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:07.639
my ignorance of the original show and
never having seen the character Morph before,

478
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:13.760
I think, but also kind of
goes into the rogue Magneto thing about age

479
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:17.400
because Morph was not one of the
people who I had known from a lot

480
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:21.840
of the X Men movies. I
thought Morph was supposed to be more like

481
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:24.800
the like the second generation, you
know, Jubileese age, and so yeah,

482
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:28.360
I do remember that scene. I
think part of why I didn't see

483
00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:30.840
as romantic anyway is because I saw
it more like, you know, a

484
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:35.480
scared kid, you know, like
a nineteen year old talking to an adult

485
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:37.760
in their thirties or forties or one
hundred forties or whatever it is that that

486
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:43.079
Wolverine like. To me, I
saw it very like to a mentor figure,

487
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.599
to a teacher, not necessarily to
a romantic equal. Absolutely, can

488
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:52.079
Can I introduce one quick tangent on
that scene? Sure? I really wish

489
00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:58.880
that when Jubilee got sucked into outer
space, it was Wolverine who came to

490
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:07.559
in time to say her rather than
Sunspot saving her. Wolver Yeah, gets

491
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:15.559
that moment in the comics, uh
with Gene annoyingly, but it would work

492
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:21.440
I think even better with Jubilee as
his sort of like mentee, you know,

493
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:25.559
daughter figure, just uh, you
know, on the brink of death

494
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:31.639
and then realizing that he's needed and
snapping too in time to to to do

495
00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:36.239
that. It was a really great
moment from the comics. And I wish

496
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:39.239
that if you were going to give
Wolverine one thing to do the whole whole

497
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:45.599
season, I wish it was that
to protect you. So I another question

498
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:49.280
I want to ask, and this
goes again to a topic uh Reeke and

499
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:52.559
I discussed somewhat last time, and
Rica, I'll let you kind of start

500
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.360
on this if you want, because
one of the things we're talking about is

501
00:40:55.760 --> 00:41:02.320
nostalgia and fans service and sort of
the to what extent do you need to?

502
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:07.199
You know? And it was it
good to do things that the you

503
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.480
know, that that fans will recognize
because we've seen them before and there were

504
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:14.840
some wonderful callbacks We talked about the
you know, what did you expect?

505
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:19.000
Black Leather is such a great turnaround
on the great line for the first of

506
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:22.400
the Chris Carpenter, not Chris Carpenter
movies, but I like, well,

507
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:24.400
you know the movies I'm talking about
the first of the Hugh Jackman, Patrick

508
00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:30.239
Stewart, Bryan thank you. But
then today we're talking about, well the

509
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:35.000
love triangles are you know, they're
not great, but they're part of X

510
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:37.639
Men, so we just have to
keep them. And to me, I

511
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:40.400
guess this is a really interesting question. Is when you're doing a new version

512
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:46.480
of something, there's some degree to
which it's okay to say, yeah,

513
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:51.840
like they've we've always had the characters
act in these ways, but we're going

514
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:53.239
to change some things. And clearly
they did, like, for example,

515
00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:58.719
they they were able to say,
look, we've seen the wolverine logan,

516
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:04.440
the logan Scott Jean Gray threesome,
you know, plotline way too often and

517
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:07.480
it's kind of sexist. Let's move
past that. Where do you think that

518
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:10.119
line is in terms of when we
say, oh, well, it's always

519
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:12.760
been a part of the show,
so it should just be a part of

520
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:15.320
the show going forward, versus being
able to say, nah, maybe it

521
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:17.679
what even better if they left in
the past. I think the line is

522
00:42:17.719 --> 00:42:22.599
where it actually worked in the past
or would work today and doesn't. I

523
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:30.039
think they actually thought that the love
triangles would work today and just failed miss

524
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:36.679
the mark. But like the love
triangles and the messy strings of romance and

525
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.639
the big, big feelings, big
soap opera feelings, big you know,

526
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:50.119
like projection of intentions and angst.
That's something that's worked really well for the

527
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:53.679
X Men for a very long time, and I can understand looking for ways

528
00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:59.199
to kind of throw that in,
and romances is a natural place to do

529
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:07.440
it. Mhmm. Well, and
just in general the large with that,

530
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:15.480
Yes, fan service, I I
think I think if fan service becomes a

531
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:19.880
plot point, then I feel like
that's where it kind of fails. When

532
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:28.000
it's like a background comment or a
cameo appearance, like having Morph turned into

533
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:32.079
Hulk, yeah, or having Bloken
Dagger and Spider Man and Mary Jane and

534
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:38.400
Flesh and all those characters, like, Yeah, having those kind of cameos

535
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:44.039
when you're part of you're part of
that. You're showing there's chaos and there

536
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:47.719
are other heroes in this universe doing
their part. I think those kinds of

537
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:54.000
fan service cameos are are perfect.
I think they're fine, completely okay,

538
00:43:54.079 --> 00:44:01.239
if they did some sort of fan
service that was like a three minute deep

539
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:07.000
dive into the differences between like Cable
and X men if you were there for

540
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:13.400
whatever reason, that's completely unnecessary and
it doesn't move so anything forward for the

541
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:16.920
I'll give an example actually from the
Bashian story of fans service that I think

542
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:22.719
did not work, and that was
trying to explain the origin of Bastian and

543
00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:28.880
his mother Rose and all of this
stuff. And the origin of Bashan,

544
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:31.880
by the way, was very,
very very different in the comics way,

545
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:37.159
more complicated, but in a way
that drew on a lot of you know,

546
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:43.880
backstories and progressing plots that you know, if you were a student and

547
00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:50.039
you were a following you would have
understood. Kind of not really they comics

548
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:52.840
has a thing like, you know, this was Bastian's plot arc was kind

549
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:58.039
of interrupted for about eight to ten
years, and then when they brought him

550
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.760
back, they're just like, oh, we kind of have to explain literally

551
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:07.519
everything, because we can't really expect
that our readers were uh literate, were

552
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:13.880
comic readers back then, you know, like it's kids largely, and so

553
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:17.840
they they did a lot their Bastian
has always been kind of a messy topic.

554
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:27.800
I'm surprised they did it uh in
this but uh it's kind of a

555
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:37.360
shorthand for large government and defense industry
reaction to mutants as a threat and mass

556
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:44.440
mobilization a bastion fanser is abasin fansers. I don't think was necessary, And

557
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.320
like, I'm kind of in the
middle on it was him stealing Cable's second

558
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:53.280
organic arm and then turned into the
second coming that I called him at that

559
00:45:53.280 --> 00:46:01.760
point. Yeah, totally, Yeah, it's like that for a tenth episode

560
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:07.679
SEMs Finale power Up for Bashan that
that immediately one that felt very comics,

561
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:15.400
but then also like that felt it
made him more throwaway, just a larger

562
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:22.440
punching bag to throw everybody at.
And so, you know, I think

563
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.960
where fan service does work is when
it is in service of character arcs,

564
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:36.000
like we did the the Madeline Pryor
arc and and Inferno as a way to

565
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:39.400
set up Scott's story arc. We
did Life Death, which was you know,

566
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:44.119
completely different, and we did these
very different and out of order,

567
00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:49.920
like if we had had more time, like the story arc of Storm leaving,

568
00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:54.880
her leaving, losing her powers and
Scott leaving the X Men are intimately

569
00:46:54.920 --> 00:47:02.079
intertwined because uh Storm loses her powers, decide, you know, goes on

570
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:06.360
like sort of a personal quest,
comes back to the X Men, decides

571
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:07.719
like this is my home, These
are my family. This is my family,

572
00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:13.920
even though I still don't have powers. Fight Cyclops too for leadership of

573
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:16.400
the X Men wins even though she
doesn't have powers, and he does,

574
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:20.960
and he's like, all right,
like this is the sign for me that

575
00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:23.039
I need to get out of here. This isn't my place anymore. I'm

576
00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:30.840
going to go raise a family.
So like these were these were kind of

577
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:37.079
fan service moments in the way that
they're adapting, kind of like stories that

578
00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:42.239
aren't like headline, front page,
what are you going to make your big

579
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:47.199
X Men movie about? But they
worked in the way that they are in

580
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:52.920
service of character arcs and telling sort
of like the broader story of what you're

581
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:57.239
trying to do with X Men,
And I thought that is an example of

582
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.840
good fan service. I guess what
I'm trying to ask about those not fan

583
00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:04.400
service, but more the opposite,
which is the how far do you think

584
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.679
they can go in terms of changing
things that people think of as central to

585
00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:12.079
this And obviously some people are gonna
get upset, and that's not I'm not

586
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:15.039
I'm not worrying about you know,
the sure, the edge lords are always

587
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:17.360
gonna edge lord. But in terms
of like, okay, so we don't

588
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:24.480
have we don't have in this version, uh, you know the love triangle

589
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:29.079
with Logan and Scott. Really it
seems like most fans are pretty okay with

590
00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:30.719
that. It's you were saying before
that, well, we kind of have

591
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:34.679
to have the love triangles because that's
what we have. But like it sounds

592
00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:37.519
like also you could have done without
the love triangles and fans wouldn't have been

593
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:39.800
that upset about it. I'm kind
of curious kind of how you all feel

594
00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:45.199
about that, Like, could you
have had Megano actually not turn evil for

595
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:46.840
part of the story and had fans
be okay with it? Could you have

596
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:52.360
had like Professor X literally never come
back and have fans be okay with it?

597
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:53.920
What? What? Because it does
seem like a lot of times when

598
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:57.239
I point out things that are like, ah, this didn't feel the best,

599
00:48:57.559 --> 00:49:00.079
the response is, well, but
that's always been the story. And

600
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:04.320
I guess I'm just kind of curious
of how far can we go and say,

601
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:07.400
well, maybe we can make it
a different kind of story without it

602
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:14.199
no longer being the X Men.
Oh, like you want to tell something

603
00:49:14.239 --> 00:49:21.119
original? Kind of yeah, I
think whatever story you're making that that has

604
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:24.079
primacy, like you know, the
adapted media, Like you're you're you're using

605
00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:27.719
these characters, you're taking them out
of the toy box and you're playing with

606
00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:30.760
them, and then you're telling the
story that you want to make and then

607
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:35.360
you put them back from it done. Uh. And the characters are based

608
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:40.840
on such kind of like strong uh
stock archetypes or ideas that they're they're going

609
00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:45.599
to be fine, and you can
kind of use them for different things afterwards.

610
00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:52.360
I think to go with your example
though of you know, why does

611
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:58.760
Magneto act like this? And then
why does you know why is this sort

612
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:06.039
of like the uh, why why
do we bring Charles back? And I

613
00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:14.360
think that actually gets to you know, an interesting part of of of X

614
00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:22.320
Men and and the conversation around nonviolence
and the fact that you know, in

615
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:29.719
in the finale, Charles, even
after shutting down the dude's mind, you

616
00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:31.559
know, is staying with him to
try and keep him alive and bring him

617
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:39.639
back because he believes this deeply in
the power of love and and and uh,

618
00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:47.079
you know, loving one's enemies not
because of some like hippie dippy moral

619
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:52.719
or it is moral, but this
this sort of like hippie dip lovey dovey,

620
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:59.079
like uh, kumbaya, Pollyanna kind
of thing, but like that the

621
00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:06.400
the sort of king idea that love
is a force that creates things like the

622
00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:12.400
possibility for redemption, that creates things
like the possibility for reconciliation, that creates

623
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:16.360
things like the possibility for a positive
peace rather than the absence of conflict,

624
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:25.840
and that to actually create and promote
peace beyond simply a tet a tet of

625
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:32.559
power constantly escalating at one another,
which is what I think Bastion represents in

626
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:38.760
this comic or in this and in
the show, you do need the presence

627
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:49.960
of somebody who is who represents non
violence in a strategic and and focused way

628
00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:57.559
of saying, like, there is
a method of conflict resolution that can scale

629
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:04.679
extremely large, that creates a lasting
and positive peace. And that's when when

630
00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:09.280
you see like a lot of these
things. The larger political arc of the

631
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:21.239
show switch it is around escalation versus
de escalation. And you know, characters

632
00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:24.639
acting in self defense in a way
that escalates, like Magneto is acting in

633
00:52:24.679 --> 00:52:30.639
self defense when he puts an electromatagnetic
pulse over the entire world, because there

634
00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:37.320
are these sentinels that it disables that
will kill him and all other mutants.

635
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:42.079
Like this is valid self defense.
However, it is destroying the world,

636
00:52:42.599 --> 00:52:47.079
and it needs to be counteracted in
some way. And so it's only through

637
00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:59.599
the creative application of nonviolence and pursuing
a positive piece that we get to a

638
00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:05.199
point where we're not simply escalating endlessly. Uh. And I think you can

639
00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:08.800
see parallels to that in any number
of you know, current real world world

640
00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:15.039
conflicts. Uh. And especially when
nationalists feel, which Magneto is often portrayed

641
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:22.400
as, feel the necessity to act
and in self defense as a justification that

642
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:28.880
their violence is justified through their self
defense, no matter the scope or the

643
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:39.519
proportionate response of it. I had
some better response than I could ever conflict.

644
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:43.199
I do want to go point out
that when Magneto does it, he's

645
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:46.920
not under attack, he is not
defending himself. He's defecting the earth everyone

646
00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:50.599
else. But that's I get your
larger point. I think we're going to

647
00:53:50.679 --> 00:53:55.079
do a whole other episode on that
because I think I think Martinuther King would

648
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:59.639
have thought perhas reacts with a punk
because to me, he's like, to

649
00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:06.000
me, the a very big difference
between nonviolence versus violence, versus assimilation versus

650
00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:12.880
you know, self assertion and self
pride. And it's there's a larger conversation

651
00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:16.679
that I want to have about why
is it that black Panther has to have

652
00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:20.920
kill Monger, you know, Professor
AXT. Why is it always that that

653
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:24.159
the focus is on the more radical
has to be the nationalist has to be

654
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:29.400
the more violent instead of that the
more radical maybe has some truth and that

655
00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:32.079
the more assimilationist is the one who's
like not going far enough. But that's

656
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:36.719
sure that the question I was more
getting at was that, to your mind,

657
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:39.119
if you did tell a story where
that kind of kept the idea of

658
00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:44.079
the first half of this where Magneto
had to learn to love a lot more

659
00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:47.599
because he had to learn responsibility of
the school, Professor X was totally off

660
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:52.119
the board, but we were also
letting the students learn much more of his

661
00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:53.719
like, no, don't try to
be like them, we are different.

662
00:54:53.880 --> 00:55:01.280
That's that that that there's a middle
ground between Nash and separatism and assimilation,

663
00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:04.719
and that it can be a we
are different, we are proud, but

664
00:55:04.760 --> 00:55:07.119
that doesn't mean we're better or worse. Like would that have been an acceptable

665
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:12.159
x Men story or would that have
Ethin gone because Professor X isn't being proven

666
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:14.719
right in the end, it would
not fit what an x Men story is

667
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:17.280
supposed to be. No, no, no, that's that's one that they've

668
00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:22.920
done in the comics plenty of times
as well. So yeah, that's that.

669
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:24.239
That would be a great x Men
story. I'd love to see it.

670
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:29.199
I think it's just not the story
that they were telling this time,

671
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:35.199
and I hope we get room for
it in the future. The last big

672
00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:37.400
thing I wanted to touch on was
this question of what does it mean that

673
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:40.840
tolerance's extinction? But before that,
Reeky is my other kind of co host.

674
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:44.039
I've been really driving the bus.
Here are any other big questions you

675
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:47.559
want to raise or comments you want
to throw in? Well, I do

676
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:52.679
want to comment on the whole fan
service thing, because I've had a lot

677
00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:59.119
to say about it here. Like
Star Wars and to me, like my

678
00:55:59.480 --> 00:56:01.880
go to phrase as a fan,
I want to be serviced, like I

679
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:07.280
want to enjoy the things I enjoy
and I have them show me things that

680
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:12.079
I recognize and love, but you
have to it has to be in service

681
00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:15.960
of the characters, and it has
to be in service of the storyline.

682
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:22.760
So talking about this series, the
things that they have done differently from the

683
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:28.840
comics, like Madeline Pryor we discussed
as completely different. Inferno was like a

684
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:36.079
year long cross like all Marvel storyline
and involved actual demons in the comics,

685
00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:40.159
which they paid like service, like
fans service to with the imagery that she

686
00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:45.440
used, like she had demonic things
attack them with her with her mind powers.

687
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:51.760
Right, So I like that,
Like, you can't there's no way

688
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:54.199
that they could do like Inferno would
have had to been like a whole season

689
00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:59.800
for to be true to the comics, and there's no way they're gonna do

690
00:56:59.800 --> 00:57:02.760
that. So they introduce it in
a way that they can present on this

691
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:08.000
show in one episode, Okay,
Like I'm okay with that. The Bastion,

692
00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:15.079
I think what I'm confused about with
most with Bastion is that they didn't

693
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:22.480
address some of the Easter eggs,
right, Like there was a photograph in

694
00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:30.320
Forge's office of him standing next to
Bastion and like hugging or like arms across

695
00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:36.400
each other's shoulders like they had worked
together and trask maybe, yeah, I

696
00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:42.960
can't remember who else was in that
photo, but yeah, but people like

697
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:46.280
people picked up on that. They're
like, that's Bastion, Like Bastionian is

698
00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:49.159
in this, Like I don't,
we don't know if he's going to be

699
00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:52.199
a character, but like that's an
Easter Egg. Done. And then like

700
00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:57.360
Bastian showed up as a character,
and it was never addressed that Forge had

701
00:57:57.440 --> 00:58:00.760
possibly worked with him, right,
Like he never said like, oh it's

702
00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:06.679
you like like or like I helped
him like work on this technology, like

703
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:10.039
right, And that should have been
a part of Forge's character, Like it

704
00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:15.199
should have been at least at least
a dialogue with somebody. Yeah. So

705
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:20.159
that's that's to me where it seems
like they put him in as an Easter

706
00:58:20.199 --> 00:58:22.360
Egg to be like yeah, like
if you pay attention, like there's Bastion,

707
00:58:22.599 --> 00:58:25.840
like we're hinting at him, But
it doesn't address the fact that it's

708
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:30.599
Bastion with Forge, which I think
isn't It is an important enough thing that

709
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:35.639
it should have there should have been
a conversation about that. So it seems

710
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:37.559
like that was like a bit of
fan service that kind of got lost in

711
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:42.880
the shuffle, like they wanted to
sneak him in there early on, but

712
00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:51.599
then like we forgot or whatever.
Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, yeah,

713
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:58.039
they leaned more into the fact that
Forge built the or helped build or

714
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:07.000
design the cloaking or deactivating tech with
with the Trask part of that picture,

715
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:13.480
but not the not how fashion was
involved in all that. Well, this

716
00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:15.679
is actually let's be segue to another
related question that that Riaki and I talked

717
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:17.920
a little bit about last time.
I want to hear all three of you

718
00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:23.800
say more on to me. The
other downs the potential downside of fan service

719
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:31.440
is what happens to the people who
don't have all that background. And I

720
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:36.039
actually kind of have a maybe an
odd take given this show, which is

721
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:40.800
that I think I think that I
didn't enjoy the show as much as you

722
00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:45.119
all did in part because I didn't
have all that background. I didn't have

723
00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:49.119
that part of the fandom in me
from my love of this show from the

724
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:52.880
before, or like knowing more about
the comics, that I wasn't being serviced

725
00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:58.039
in quite that same way. But
I think that's totally okay, Like to

726
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:00.119
me, I don't think of that. To me, I think this this

727
01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:06.039
is basically season five or season six
of the original X Men show, and

728
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:08.639
as long as it's marked like to
me, if it had been marketed aggressively

729
01:00:08.679 --> 01:00:12.119
in a way of like, don't
worry, if you've never seen anything else,

730
01:00:12.199 --> 01:00:14.760
you're gonna love this, I would
have been like, Yeah, you

731
01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:17.159
kind of pulled one over on me. And I think there are some people

732
01:00:17.199 --> 01:00:20.679
who don't know the X Men story
who did really enjoy it. But I've

733
01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:22.360
certainly heard from a lot of people
in my position who were just like very

734
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:25.360
lost, very confused, and found
it hard to care about some of these

735
01:00:25.400 --> 01:00:30.000
storylines. I feel like that like
to me, for me, Ahsoka was

736
01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:34.800
what you guys are talking about,
Ahsoka was. There were parts that show

737
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:37.440
I didn't love, but it felt
very much like Rebels season five, and

738
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:42.920
I felt completely serviced as a fan
in ways that I absolutely loved When people

739
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:45.440
said way, but I'm upset because
I feel like I can't enjoy the shorty

740
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:50.119
as much if I haven't seen Rebels. My thought was, no, you

741
01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:53.239
can't, and that's okay, And
so I'm kinda curious you guys take on

742
01:00:53.280 --> 01:01:00.280
this in terms of like when fan
service goes to the point that people who

743
01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:04.239
don't have all that background feel maybe
a little alienated or just having trouble enjoying

744
01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:06.719
it as much or keeping up with
it. What's your kind of like is

745
01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:10.519
that should fan service be done in
a way that it doesn't alienate people or

746
01:01:10.519 --> 01:01:14.280
push them away? Or is it
okay if it does, because like,

747
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:25.559
not everything is for everybody. My
kind of take on that is I might

748
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:30.760
write a story the same way in
the sense of, like if I write

749
01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:37.840
a story that has fan service,
and then I can also like allude to

750
01:01:37.719 --> 01:01:42.480
larger things or allude to things that
may or may not have happened in the

751
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:46.440
past, and they just kind of
reference it. Then my best case scenario

752
01:01:46.760 --> 01:01:52.239
is, say, if you have
fifty fans and then fifty new watchers,

753
01:01:52.159 --> 01:02:00.559
if ideally a majority of those fifty
new watchers are intrigued, like get brought

754
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:04.320
in by the story, and they're
intrigued enough that they want to ask others

755
01:02:04.760 --> 01:02:07.079
about, hey, what do they
mean about that? And then and then

756
01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:14.320
my story that I wrote is perpetuating
out and it's creating newer fans who are

757
01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:19.760
actively exploring my universe and not just
the one story I told, But then

758
01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:22.559
there's also going to be I understand
that there's going to be a number of

759
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:27.000
those new fans that are going to
get turned off by that. But my

760
01:02:27.159 --> 01:02:31.639
hope as the writer is that there
are more new fans than there are people

761
01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:37.360
who have There's a saying in comics, every issue is somebody's first, and

762
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:44.400
it was it's it's been abandoned over
the years, but the idea was.

763
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:51.000
The idea was that, you know, you you want to keep a lot

764
01:02:51.039 --> 01:02:57.559
of your core concepts very accessible,
that you want to reiterate what the who

765
01:02:57.719 --> 01:03:01.320
all the characters are, what their
powers are, what their situations are,

766
01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:07.320
and where they are in their individual
plot arcs every single issue, and you

767
01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:13.920
end up with a lot of sort
of very non naturalistic recap dialogue, tons

768
01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:22.679
and tons and tons of extraneous exposition
in order to help fans who are coming

769
01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:30.159
in keep up. And that is
I think was extremely effective in terms of

770
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:42.639
creating successful story you know, like
franchises and successful like resonant characters and building

771
01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:46.639
a fan base where people can jump
in and feel like they might not understand

772
01:03:46.679 --> 01:03:52.840
everything, but they'll they'll figure it
out over time and things will become through

773
01:03:53.639 --> 01:03:59.639
they can start in, they can
jump in wherever, and they won't necessarily

774
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:03.079
they might have missed out on some
good stories, but it won't be completely

775
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:11.559
over their head. And I think
the problem, the reason that that's been

776
01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:15.880
abandoned in comics, and I think
the reason it was abandoned in X Men

777
01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:26.519
ninety seven is that having all of
that extraneous or repetitive, redundant exposition or

778
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:30.119
going out of your way to keep
characters going too far from their like true

779
01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:35.920
north as a concept, gets in
the way of this sort of prestige style

780
01:04:36.039 --> 01:04:41.440
storytelling, where you have characters who
grow and change over long arcs, where

781
01:04:41.440 --> 01:04:51.119
you have you know, dialogue that
sounds more natural and more just like less

782
01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:58.079
awkward than somebody saying, you know, like Storm announcing what her powers are

783
01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:03.920
every single time she uses them,
or you know, Gambit. I really

784
01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:09.320
think one of the biggest reasons why
they killed off Gambit was because he that

785
01:05:09.400 --> 01:05:16.039
his betrayal in the original show is
the least compatible with just somebody talking like

786
01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:20.039
a goddamn person. I'm sorry,
can I swear on this? Okay?

787
01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:26.679
Okay? Because he talks about himself
in the third person. He's ridiculous.

788
01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:31.679
He is such a bizarre cartoon character
with this impenetrable accent, and I loved

789
01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:35.320
him when I was a kid.
I literally thought I was Gambit. But

790
01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:42.760
he is ridiculous as a character if
you're trying to tell a story with like

791
01:05:43.239 --> 01:05:51.599
more prestige oriented or up jumped themes
and ideas and storytelling, which they're clearly

792
01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:57.880
trying to do here. And so
I do think that that was a casualty

793
01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:00.400
of that. Yeah, I think
I think that's exactly where I am is

794
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:02.639
that is. I love that long
storytelling, you know. And like I

795
01:06:02.760 --> 01:06:09.400
mentioned to Soka, another great Star
Wars property is Mandalorian, which I mean

796
01:06:09.440 --> 01:06:11.960
to try and be as subtle here
for non spoiler as a cant though it's

797
01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:14.440
a couple years old, been now. But like a lot of fans have

798
01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:18.800
said that the failure to mention a
very important character from the Clone Wars TV

799
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:26.199
show, who is should be a
very important character for Bocatan and the recapturing

800
01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:29.639
of Mandalor as while as Obi wan
Kenobi is a real failing of the show,

801
01:06:29.679 --> 01:06:31.639
and they're clearly doing it because they
don't want to isolate, you know,

802
01:06:31.719 --> 01:06:35.360
newer audiences, And I agree,
Yeah, I think it's worthy to

803
01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:39.280
keep bringing it up because I think
it's a show that as we get more

804
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:42.960
of this prestige long form, as
we get more things where it's a writer

805
01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:45.519
like it's one, it's one reason
why it's nice to have completely new ip,

806
01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:48.599
but as we get all these ips
that are so locked into all these

807
01:06:48.639 --> 01:06:51.440
other stories. Yeah, because I
do think like, for example, like

808
01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:57.679
if you had to, I am
sure someone who had never heard of Wolverine,

809
01:06:57.719 --> 01:07:01.480
Logan Scott or Jane Gray was maybe
a little confused about like what's happening

810
01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:04.800
with these three of their left time
going on? But like you can't keep

811
01:07:04.840 --> 01:07:06.840
retelling these things again and again.
I think I think your point of the

812
01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:15.920
exhibition there is really key. Let's
go ahead for me. The X Men

813
01:07:15.079 --> 01:07:21.119
ninety seven, like where like I
watched most of the original animated series,

814
01:07:21.159 --> 01:07:26.360
I think I haven't seen like season
five because I know it's bad. But

815
01:07:27.920 --> 01:07:32.880
where this show failed in my opinion, if you know, quote unquote failed

816
01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:41.199
in terms of like the inaccessibility was
the Professor X like shear stuff, but

817
01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:44.360
they kind of had to do that
because of the starting point of this episode,

818
01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:46.719
like he's not here, and if
they wanted to bring him back,

819
01:07:46.760 --> 01:07:49.679
they wanted to bring him back.
They have to explain like where he is

820
01:07:49.679 --> 01:07:54.760
and what he's doing and why he
comes back. And it was like I

821
01:07:55.239 --> 01:07:57.760
sat through that episode and I was
like, yeah, I know, I

822
01:07:57.800 --> 01:08:00.960
know all these characters, I know
this storyline, but it just it seemed

823
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:04.239
like a big detour to get Professor
X back and it was like, all

824
01:08:04.360 --> 01:08:09.079
right, like I will give up
this one episode in order to get Professor

825
01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:15.159
X back. But like Sarah,
my wife, I think she watched those

826
01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:17.840
episodes, but they didn't the original
episodes with a she are, but they

827
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:21.520
didn't really resonate she She was like
who are these people? Like what is

828
01:08:21.560 --> 01:08:26.880
this? And like that to me? Is I think where the show kind

829
01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:34.000
of hit a low point in terms
of accessibility. Yeah yeah, yeah,

830
01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:38.920
yeah, Matthew mentioned that earlier too. Yeah, they're trying to find I

831
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:46.039
think also the creators were throwing in
kind of a broader point about colonialism and

832
01:08:47.039 --> 01:08:55.560
power relations, just in a different
context to kind of show the transmissibility of

833
01:08:55.840 --> 01:09:00.279
these ideas. But yeah, it
it, it was. It was awkward,

834
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:09.119
and it it kind of like you
it. It came up with an

835
01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:13.399
expectation that it wouldn't go anywhere because
you're like, well, obviously these characters

836
01:09:13.399 --> 01:09:17.319
are just thrown in right now and
we don't care. Maybe as a way

837
01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:28.319
to mirror some of the anti colonialist
uh hintings in the concurrent life death plot,

838
01:09:28.479 --> 01:09:32.399
but those were also pretty underbaked.
So yeah, all right, Well

839
01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:34.399
this's been a great discussion. I
do want ask this one last question,

840
01:09:34.479 --> 01:09:38.079
but trying and keep it somewhat brief. But I just for Scott and Will

841
01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:42.279
and you know, we could please
your thoughts as well as we Still I'm

842
01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:47.319
not literally cyclops. You're not a
cop. I'm white guy. In Will's

843
01:09:47.319 --> 01:09:50.199
mind, I am the whitest man
who has ever existed, which would make

844
01:09:50.279 --> 01:09:58.680
me cyclopes. But that fact.
But here, here's what does it mean

845
01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:06.239
for is tolerant? What the question
is tolerance extinction mean? Okay, I

846
01:10:06.279 --> 01:10:12.600
think I have a shorter answer because
I think this gets into levels of conversation

847
01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:17.239
that seem as much more equipped to
have. So for personal reference, I'm

848
01:10:17.279 --> 01:10:21.720
on the DEI committee at the school
that I'm on the board of. So

849
01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:29.560
de I is diversity, equity and
inclusion, and so like ideally, companies

850
01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:36.000
everywhere have some sort of DEI approach
to you know, their missions, and

851
01:10:36.159 --> 01:10:46.479
we hired a DI coordinator two years
ago and she immediately changed the title to

852
01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:54.279
DEI B. So it is diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging because her

853
01:10:55.319 --> 01:11:02.039
explanation is that if you are doing
de I, then you like have attachable

854
01:11:02.119 --> 01:11:09.880
ramps to stages for if you ever
have a someone in a in a wheelchairs,

855
01:11:09.880 --> 01:11:14.239
you can get them up, versus
belonging is that the ramp is already

856
01:11:14.239 --> 01:11:23.479
built into the stage. You have
classroom classrooms that allow for hearing impaired individuals

857
01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:31.840
versus you build your classroom to have
the the r f uh transmitters to project

858
01:11:31.880 --> 01:11:36.880
to listening devices that you already have
on on hand, like, uh,

859
01:11:38.319 --> 01:11:47.479
It's one thing to create a culture
where you accept people uh that are not

860
01:11:47.720 --> 01:11:54.600
your uh, that are your atypical, whether it's neurodiversity, uh uh,

861
01:11:55.000 --> 01:12:01.600
physically impaired in any way or uh
non binary or other religions YadA, YadA,

862
01:12:01.640 --> 01:12:06.239
YadA, But it's another to have
it be part of your part of

863
01:12:06.479 --> 01:12:13.319
part of your structure and your build. And I think for me, tolerance's

864
01:12:13.399 --> 01:12:19.159
extinction is that difference. I think
tolerance is just doing d I. Tolerance

865
01:12:19.199 --> 01:12:23.479
is saying, yeah, you're allowed
here, but you got to use that

866
01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:30.079
other door. But we do technically
have black patrons at this restaurant where And

867
01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:33.119
if that's all you're going for,
then yeah, you're eventually going to die

868
01:12:33.119 --> 01:12:39.159
out because you're still othered in the
conversation of the society as a whole.

869
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:45.359
Where once you bring in belonging,
it's not just you have mutant Town,

870
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:50.680
where there's this segregated borough of New
York where mutants live. It's people are

871
01:12:50.840 --> 01:12:58.560
the mutants are part of the teaching
staff, and they work in corporations and

872
01:12:58.680 --> 01:13:03.039
the and the strong downtown. They're
part of your society and it's just another

873
01:13:03.199 --> 01:13:08.479
person and not oh, there's a
mutant over there and there's a human over

874
01:13:08.479 --> 01:13:15.800
here. So I agree tolerance's extinction
to an extreme degree, Like I think

875
01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:23.760
the end game of Tolerance leads to
extinction of or or or erasure of whatever

876
01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:30.279
is being tolerated. But that's kind
of my three quarter baked. It's a

877
01:13:30.319 --> 01:13:34.479
lot more baked than my approach,
which was they combined the storylines you for

878
01:13:34.600 --> 01:13:44.039
extinction and Operation Zero Tolerance. Yes, yes they did. Yeah there And

879
01:13:44.079 --> 01:13:47.159
like in the episode that I that
I did before I tried to basic explain,

880
01:13:47.359 --> 01:13:49.880
I think you explained much more succinctly
than what I was trying to say,

881
01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:53.960
which is that I think that that's
to me, that's the interesting part

882
01:13:54.119 --> 01:13:57.199
of the of what they did is
it felt like they were using this phrase

883
01:13:57.199 --> 01:14:00.319
in two different ways, one of
which being the much more like the action

884
01:14:00.520 --> 01:14:02.520
way. But yeah, also this
idea of and here's where I do think

885
01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:06.640
Magneto was making a very important point
of if we're if all we're asking for

886
01:14:06.760 --> 01:14:11.960
is to be tolerated as mutants,
then we're gonna go extinct in the same

887
01:14:12.199 --> 01:14:15.720
in the assimilationist Yeah, yeah,
all that kind of stuff. Yeah,

888
01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:21.239
I believe that is the end game
message. But seems right it is definitely

889
01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:29.199
Operations zero Tolerans and for extinction are
two very important legendary storylines from the X

890
01:14:29.239 --> 01:14:35.039
Men comics that they pulled heavily for
these ten episodes. But as far as

891
01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:39.199
the message on paper, I think
that you're more to it than that.

892
01:14:42.880 --> 01:14:46.880
And yeah, no Cassandraova, but
we don't need Yeah, gods kind of

893
01:14:46.920 --> 01:14:54.520
go back to the fan service changing
stuff obviously, like when they had the

894
01:14:55.079 --> 01:15:00.159
Notion episode. Like in the comics, Cassandra Nova is supposed to be one

895
01:15:00.199 --> 01:15:01.840
who sends the wild Sentinel and I
was like, oh my gosh, they're

896
01:15:01.880 --> 01:15:05.399
doing Cassandra Nova. And at about
the same time, we got the hint

897
01:15:05.680 --> 01:15:12.399
I think a trailer for some an
upcoming thing it seems to sugges Cassandra Nova

898
01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:15.479
is a thing, and then they
just didn't. So I was like,

899
01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:18.760
oh, okay, I guess not, which I'm okay with, Like that's

900
01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:24.840
the thing because they plotted it out
in a way that it didn't have to

901
01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:28.560
be her, right, Like you
can do these stories and change like a

902
01:15:28.600 --> 01:15:32.319
fundamental thing like who the villain is
if it's if you write it as a

903
01:15:32.359 --> 01:15:38.079
whole, but then yeah, yeah, it turns out a whole lot of

904
01:15:38.199 --> 01:15:43.359
X Men villains want to do genocide. Unfortunately, it could have been an

905
01:15:43.399 --> 01:15:45.520
ezy, right, it could have
been apocalypse. Like at one point I

906
01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:48.560
was like, is it apocalypse?
Like is he trying to set this up

907
01:15:48.800 --> 01:15:55.520
as like a oh something, I
don't know he's gonna be season two?

908
01:15:55.760 --> 01:16:01.199
Yeah all right, well yeah yeah. So to bring to bring it back

909
01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:10.319
to different questions you had earlier about
king heroes attire, I hope that this

910
01:16:10.680 --> 01:16:15.840
universe allows characters to retire, like
at the end of the day, you

911
01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:21.720
like when you look at Scott and
all the times a new mutant or a

912
01:16:21.840 --> 01:16:26.600
child is introduced, Scott just wants
to be a dad. Like when you

913
01:16:26.680 --> 01:16:30.039
boil down everything, Scott just wants
to be a dad. Colossus just see

914
01:16:30.119 --> 01:16:33.600
will tell you. Colossus just wants
to be an artist. Like let him

915
01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:39.520
retire and let him paint. I'm
a Frost just cares about being a teacher.

916
01:16:39.760 --> 01:16:45.720
That's all she's ever done. And
like there are core characters that their

917
01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:51.960
hopes and dreams are outside of being
a mutant soldier, and because of their

918
01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:57.199
popularity, it's never gonna happen.
But damn it, this is a chance

919
01:16:57.279 --> 01:17:01.159
to let that happen. You telling
you you've you vitalize this universe that was

920
01:17:01.239 --> 01:17:09.560
dead for thirty years, Like,
let the natural course take over, let

921
01:17:09.640 --> 01:17:13.600
Scott retire, whether it's I mean, the kind of got to catch that

922
01:17:13.720 --> 01:17:18.520
because of the epilogue, but like, you know, let these characters go

923
01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:26.000
and they can do a crazy cool
John Wick revival in a season finale or

924
01:17:26.039 --> 01:17:29.680
something. But like, let them
go and it will just be for a

925
01:17:29.720 --> 01:17:32.319
little bit. Yeah, I do
hope they set up. I hope that

926
01:17:32.520 --> 01:17:39.439
season two starts with a long enough
arc that the people who are remaining in

927
01:17:39.479 --> 01:17:44.840
the present, which I believe is
Sunspot, Jubilee, Forge, right,

928
01:17:45.479 --> 01:17:49.840
those three. Primarily that they give
them time to be the X Men and

929
01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:56.439
recruit some new characters like in the
present and let the other weird stuff happen.

930
01:17:57.319 --> 01:18:00.399
Mm hmm, yeah, I think
I could really helpful and also just

931
01:18:00.439 --> 01:18:02.199
have And granted, the whole point
of this is that we're gonna kind of

932
01:18:02.199 --> 01:18:10.479
post the school era, but it'd
been nice if they had just like find

933
01:18:10.479 --> 01:18:13.720
a way to make clear who the
different generations are and what ageous people are,

934
01:18:13.760 --> 01:18:15.319
because I do think that, like, for example, in those in

935
01:18:15.319 --> 01:18:20.159
the Brian Scott movies you had,
it was very clear like Iceman, you

936
01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:25.039
know that their version of Rogue,
you know, all those are a fundamentally

937
01:18:25.039 --> 01:18:30.119
different generation than Wolverine and cop Boy
and Phoenix Girl and like, you know,

938
01:18:30.159 --> 01:18:35.159
all these other people. So yeah, maybe nice. All right,

939
01:18:35.239 --> 01:18:39.359
Well, thank you all so much
for being a part of this. I

940
01:18:39.399 --> 01:18:42.119
was supposed to have put in a
plug for membership a long time ago.

941
01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:45.840
We had a long conversation here,
but members you know you're gonna get even

942
01:18:45.880 --> 01:18:47.199
more content. I think we've been
going on for a whiles, so we're

943
01:18:47.199 --> 01:18:50.479
actually do is use a clip from
the episode that I had a while ago

944
01:18:50.600 --> 01:18:55.680
of myself Will and Steve talking about
Gianosha. But also, I'm gonna make

945
01:18:55.680 --> 01:18:59.199
sure you guys get a chance to
hear anything that we're gonna definitely have them

946
01:18:59.239 --> 01:19:01.720
back to talk about version of Genosha
compared to the genotion in the comics,

947
01:19:01.720 --> 01:19:09.680
because I had some big questions about
that. But so please, I'm gonna

948
01:19:09.680 --> 01:19:13.760
say, I'm not gonna talk about
Genosha. Okay, I will talk about

949
01:19:16.159 --> 01:19:27.720
Lamb. Sorry, purposely I should
start purposely, I don't. Okay,

950
01:19:27.720 --> 01:19:32.279
I'm gonna start calling it tatoine.
Here we go. They're good. Oh

951
01:19:32.479 --> 01:19:40.399
gosh, Well, I would love
it if you pronounced it the way that

952
01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:47.560
Boba pronounces it, which is like
or something like that tween. Okay,

953
01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:51.720
But the point is when Williams aren't
laughing at my pronunciation, they actually have

954
01:19:51.760 --> 01:19:55.920
an awesome podcast of their own that
you should totally check out. Uh,

955
01:19:56.079 --> 01:20:01.640
give us a plug, Steve,
Oh, Dad's hop is my superpower?

956
01:20:02.680 --> 01:20:05.560
Uh, Steve and I talk.
We've taught. We have like one hundred

957
01:20:05.560 --> 01:20:09.840
and thirty five episodes. Go and
check them out. We read a lot

958
01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:14.680
of comics. Will and I have
been best friends, our entire lives.

959
01:20:14.840 --> 01:20:16.760
We read a lot of comics and
we hang out and we talk about them.

960
01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:19.800
If that's something that sounds like something
you enjoy, come check us out.

961
01:20:19.800 --> 01:20:23.960
It's called Type is my superpower.
It's wherever podcasts are potted. Yeah,

962
01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:26.920
and I get a great podcast.
Check it out. Even if if

963
01:20:26.920 --> 01:20:29.560
you're like me and you can't many
the comics, they actually like give you

964
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:31.680
enough of the picture to really help
you understand the comment. You guys do

965
01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:35.560
that great job of like melding fan
service with not alienating people, So thank

966
01:20:35.600 --> 01:20:39.840
you. I always love that.
Will. Also, you tend to do

967
01:20:39.920 --> 01:20:45.239
things on stream as well. I
do. I'm on Twitch silver Dreamer or

968
01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:53.279
Silver with a Y. I build
building brick sets like if anyone's watching the

969
01:20:53.279 --> 01:20:57.000
stream, everything you see behind me, like my Godzilla taj muhallaba will be

970
01:20:57.039 --> 01:21:00.600
and stuff uh and model kits and
stuff. And then also on Sunday evenings,

971
01:21:01.119 --> 01:21:04.840
I read Marvel comics. It's against
copyrights. I don't tell anyone,

972
01:21:05.079 --> 01:21:12.840
don't tell anyone, but but but
I do. We read comics on stream.

973
01:21:12.920 --> 01:21:15.399
People like hearing my voice and so
that just kind of evolved in and

974
01:21:15.640 --> 01:21:20.640
allegedly I also write independent comics,
although I need to actually publish something new

975
01:21:20.680 --> 01:21:24.920
at a certain point in order to
keep saying that, yeah, look for

976
01:21:24.960 --> 01:21:28.760
the pros. It's his first comics, all right. Thank you all so

977
01:21:28.880 --> 01:21:30.159
much for being a part of this
riky Is always. Thank you so much

978
01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:33.600
for being a co host and fighting
through as we got overwhelmed. I thought

979
01:21:33.600 --> 01:21:35.640
we was gonna get one of these
two today, but we got both.

980
01:21:36.279 --> 01:21:40.479
To our listeners, thank you all
so much. We have spoken to me,

981
01:21:40.720 --> 01:21:41.600
my ex man