1 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,399 We're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Dashinski, 2 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,000 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:25,039 --> 00:00:29,079 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on exit FDRLST. Make 4 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,359 sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course to the premium 5 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:35,719 version of our website as well. I'm very excited about today's guests. We 6 00:00:35,759 --> 00:00:39,280 are joined by Luke Moon, who is the executive director over at the Felos 7 00:00:39,359 --> 00:00:42,719 Project. Luke, thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me so. 8 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:48,439 I actually asked Luke to come on the show after watching this fascinating kind 9 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:53,520 of a rebuttal video on the Felos Project's YouTube page to the interview that Tucker 10 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,000 Carlson did with Montha. Isaac Who Luke, I'm just going to guess, 11 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,960 and I'm guessing you were familiar with him before Tucker Adham on the show. 12 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,840 Oh yeah, he's like, you know, a friend of me. I 13 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,879 was going to say, because we were just talking about how you've had extensive 14 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:10,920 experience in this obviously in the space you work for Pelos, which is dedicated 15 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,040 to the space, but you have a long history of you know, actually 16 00:01:15,079 --> 00:01:19,000 you've been to Bethlehem, you've been to Palestinian territory, You've obviously been to 17 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:26,159 Israel many times. But Tucker did an interview that was framed as in not 18 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:33,000 an investigation, but a conversation about Israel's treatment of Christians. And I really 19 00:01:33,079 --> 00:01:36,359 liked the way that you approached this subject, Luke, because you said, 20 00:01:36,359 --> 00:01:40,719 listen, I've watched Tucker with my wife. You know, I've I loved 21 00:01:40,719 --> 00:01:44,400 to Sean Fox. This interview was wrong for reasons X Y and Z. 22 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,040 And I think that's important because I don't begrudge Tucker for having this curiosity about 23 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:52,959 the fate of Christians in the Middle East, about the fate of Christians in 24 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,319 Bethlehem, frankly, but I thought you brought some really helpful nuance to the 25 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,120 discussion. So could you tell us just a little bit about your reaction, 26 00:02:02,319 --> 00:02:05,840 because this is your video is two hours long, and I commit it to 27 00:02:05,879 --> 00:02:09,199 everyone. It's fantastic. But just if you had to answer the question basically 28 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:14,960 that Tucker post to a month there Isaac, which was you know, how 29 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:20,199 does Israel treat Christians? How would you respond? Right, Well, Israel 30 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,199 treats Christians actually pretty well. I mean, they don't really care that much. 31 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,439 I mean, there's just not that many of them. They don't matter. 32 00:02:28,599 --> 00:02:30,080 I mean, and you could ask, well, you know, how 33 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:37,680 does America treat the Bahai right, Like you'd probably get a similar response, 34 00:02:37,879 --> 00:02:40,599 right because like the behind, you know, they have so much influence on 35 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:46,360 America, right, maybe, but not really. I mean it's like there's 36 00:02:46,599 --> 00:02:53,639 there just aren't that many Christians in Israel. There's listen, there's and it's 37 00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:59,439 obviously mostly Jews, and then there's twenty percent of Israel's era, but most 38 00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:05,000 of those eras are Muslim, and so the Christians just don't they don't matter 39 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,759 in any kind of they there's not enough of them to really matter. And 40 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:14,120 how how many would you estimate Christians are in Israel? Fifty sixty thousand, 41 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,520 right, and in Bethlehem it's about well, it's so small Bethlehem, you're 42 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:23,639 talking. I mean, the real estimate is eleven thousand. I doubt it's 43 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,199 even that they like I would I would cut that in half, maybe even 44 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:34,719 further. There's it's basically after COVID, the Christians left. It's just not 45 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:40,520 it's it's there's discrimination. There is hard to get a job, if it's 46 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,400 it's very clannish, like the Arab culture is very clannish, you know. 47 00:03:46,439 --> 00:03:50,680 And so if you don't, your cousin's not part of the thing. And 48 00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:53,719 like you know, your cousin gets you the job, like that's how life 49 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,280 happens. So if you don't, if you're not part of one of those 50 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,199 big families, you're going to have a hard time. And actually that's really 51 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:05,680 interesting because one of the things that Monther Isaac claims, I don't even remember 52 00:04:05,719 --> 00:04:10,000 if you got to this in the Tucker interview, is that Christians have fled 53 00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:15,560 Bethlehem because of Israel, because Bethlehem is sort of and you can explain this 54 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,079 by than I can contested area in the West Bank where Israel does some sort 55 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:26,759 of military operations, anti terrorist and military operations. But that's his that's his 56 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:31,160 sort of contention, right and we so we we had heard that for years, 57 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,439 so several years ago, actually this is in twenty twenty, I think 58 00:04:34,439 --> 00:04:38,560 it came out. The survey actually came out in twenty one, but we 59 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:43,560 did we wanted to get at this, like what what is motivating Christians to 60 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:49,519 leave? And so we actually did surveys because what you'd fined is is that 61 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,639 I would take you know, you'd go in a public venue and a Christian 62 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,879 will if you ask Christian, ay, you know, how are you treated 63 00:04:57,879 --> 00:05:00,759 by the Muslims? How's it going on? They're like, Oh, we're 64 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,079 just the best of friends. We're just having to like guys, it's amazing. 65 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,600 I mean, we like skip through the fields together. Really, it's 66 00:05:08,639 --> 00:05:12,160 like when we walk down the street, rainbows follow us. I mean that's 67 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,439 the picture that they give you. But then you get them alone, especially 68 00:05:15,439 --> 00:05:20,000 if you get a beer in them, man, they will like like they're 69 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,000 like, wow, it's just terrible. It's actually quite terrible. It's really 70 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,199 hard. It's really hard, and so we wanted to get at that, 71 00:05:28,759 --> 00:05:33,959 and so we put a survey together. We hired the premiere surveyor of Palestinian 72 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,959 life, and the survey came back this is the primary reason people are leaving 73 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,839 is economic and the secondary reason is education. And mind you, both of 74 00:05:44,879 --> 00:05:51,800 those are related to the conflict and the challenges facing the Palestinians, particularly in 75 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:58,959 the Palestinian territories. But it wasn't like it wasn't the primary driver. It 76 00:05:58,959 --> 00:06:02,000 was just life was hard and it's like the like you know, why do 77 00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:05,399 I got to stick around? This is not worth it. It's not worth 78 00:06:05,399 --> 00:06:11,839 the hassle, it's not worth the discrimination the people who are against us. 79 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:15,199 This is not it's not great. And you know it's you know, my 80 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,480 cousin, he lives in Miami. Miami is great. Right, I can 81 00:06:19,519 --> 00:06:23,680 go with the beach in Miami. I can go to the beach in Bethlehem, 82 00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:26,800 right, and so they go. You know, it's it is, 83 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,079 it's a. It's a there's a lot of Palestinian Christians, a lot of 84 00:06:31,079 --> 00:06:36,360 Palestinians just leaving because life's hard. And that's what people do with LiF's heart. 85 00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:41,240 And unless you have And the thing is, here's here's a distinction I 86 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:47,000 think between Christians and Muslims and Jews is that Muslims and Jews are landed people, 87 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:54,000 meaning like they're very committed to the like the land matters in a very 88 00:06:54,160 --> 00:07:00,720 deep way differently than it matters to Christians, where like the earth is the 89 00:07:00,759 --> 00:07:03,600 lords and everywhere in it, and so it's like we're not that connected. 90 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:10,480 But Muslims they pray in a direction right right the temple for example, they 91 00:07:10,519 --> 00:07:13,759 do well. The Muslims don't pray it towards the Temple the Jews right, 92 00:07:13,879 --> 00:07:16,600 the Jews do right, and that is important exactly. And then the Jewish 93 00:07:16,639 --> 00:07:21,079 prayer, like you know, the orthodoxtor praying three times a day. They're 94 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:27,120 praying particularly, they named Jerusalem in their prayers every like every time they pray, 95 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:32,040 they named Jerusalem, And so that matters, obviously if your whole orientation 96 00:07:32,199 --> 00:07:40,480 of your faith is towards a land, and Christians were not, like you 97 00:07:40,519 --> 00:07:45,160 know, I mean, maybe there are Christians out there praying towards Roman or 98 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:48,360 something or like, you know, with whatever the you know, I guess 99 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:54,720 the Baptist maybe they prayed to Nashville. But kidding Baptists, that's pretty good. 100 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,079 But other than that, like I just don't, I don't know, 101 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,639 Like the Christians were just not a land that people really aren't and so, 102 00:08:03,199 --> 00:08:07,360 you know, it's one of the reasons all across the region the Christians are 103 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:11,600 just leaving. You know, in nineteen fifty in Iraq there was about five 104 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:18,040 million Christians. Today there's one hundred and twenty five thousand. And that was 105 00:08:18,079 --> 00:08:20,879 part of Tucker's critique, is like, oh, it's because of America, 106 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,879 because of our war and all that sort of stuff, well kind of, 107 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,800 but it was also because just like Islam's not nice to Christians. Yeah, 108 00:08:28,839 --> 00:08:33,919 all right, so there's that, yeah right, but it also matters that 109 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:39,840 you're like the Christians, just like the land is not that important. You 110 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:43,279 know. That's interesting because it gets at this fundamental I think argument coming from 111 00:08:43,399 --> 00:08:50,120 Tucker, which is that the United States has been disproportionately disinterested in the fate 112 00:08:50,279 --> 00:08:56,240 of Christians throughout the Middle East. That sort of US imperialism or US adventurism, 113 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:03,159 I'll put it that way, actually kind of sacrifices Christians, Christian life, 114 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,360 Christian culture in the Middle East, ancient Christian culture that was a beautiful 115 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:11,720 church that was was hit early in the post October seventh conflict, just a 116 00:09:11,799 --> 00:09:13,159 verial I think it is like more than a thousand. It was more than 117 00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:18,440 a thousand. The virus is that. Yeah, it's but well it wasn't 118 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,279 it wasn't hit. The building next to it was hit fell on it because 119 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,440 it was That's an important distinction. It wasn't targeted. It was unfortunate, 120 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,720 I mean, but the you know, it was the building next to it 121 00:09:33,799 --> 00:09:37,480 was being used to launch rockets out of and Tucker's sort of a stand in 122 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,320 here for because I think again I don't begrudge him for asking some of these 123 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:46,200 questions, is stand in for a proxy for a larger kind of curiosity or 124 00:09:46,279 --> 00:09:52,879 backlash that's that's mounting on the right, and the the argument is that again, 125 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,720 you know, Islam not friendly to Christians, but the Israel and the 126 00:09:56,799 --> 00:10:01,519 United States should also be more concerned about Christians than it has shown. That's 127 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,960 probably a chitrible description of the argument. How do you address love that? 128 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,519 I would love that, like I swear if Christians care like heck, if 129 00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:13,799 I could get Christians, not even Americans, if I could get Christians that 130 00:10:13,879 --> 00:10:18,080 care about Christians, right, I mean, because you've been doing this is 131 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,919 what life's work. I have been doing this so long. I can raise 132 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,080 more money in like two days, then I've probably raised in fifteen years for 133 00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:31,600 Christian persecution, like like for something else. Like It's just I have not 134 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:37,720 been able to find the secret sauce to get Christians to care about other Christians. 135 00:10:37,039 --> 00:10:41,240 I mean, I went to a conference, you know, it was 136 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,240 was a Christian justice conference back in now twenty sixteen or some long time ago. 137 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:52,720 And afterwards, you know, I think Hillsong played and they were raising 138 00:10:52,799 --> 00:11:01,000 money to help refugees were who were fleeing Isis basically, and they were going 139 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,879 to help a refugee camp. Well here's the problem. There are no Christian 140 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:11,919 refugee camps anywhere in the world. They were like, there's Sunni Muslim camps, 141 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:16,879 and there is Shia Muslim camps, and there's Yazidi camps, but there 142 00:11:16,919 --> 00:11:20,320 are no Christian camps. I mean, it's not just America. America doesn't 143 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:26,200 care about Christians anywhere. I mean over the weekend on on Saturday, eleven 144 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,720 Nigerians were butchered in their church and they was set on fire. Yes, 145 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:37,360 yeah, like I can't get Christians to care about that. Australia yesterday, 146 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,440 Australia, can you can you tell us a little bit about what happened. 147 00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:46,039 Yeah, there was a the archbishop. He's got a great name of mar 148 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:52,039 Mai this anyways, he was actually he had gone to Gaza and he had 149 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,480 visited the Christians in Gaza and was coming back to Australia. Like tell the 150 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:03,440 dude was no Zionists, you know, and he's this guy comes up and 151 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,559 like as he's preaching, it stabs him in the head. Like in the 152 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,080 neck and you know, obviously the people, you know, grab the the 153 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:20,159 attacker and the bishop was actually praying for him as the bishop himself was bleeding 154 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:26,360 waiting for the for the ambulance to get there. But that's that's just yesterday. 155 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:28,919 I mean, like this stuff is happening all the time, all of 156 00:12:28,039 --> 00:12:31,120 the world, and I can't get Christians to care. I haven't. Like, 157 00:12:31,159 --> 00:12:35,559 I'm under no illusion America is going to care about We never have, 158 00:12:35,039 --> 00:12:39,320 Like I can't think of a single instance where we have have cared. I 159 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:48,960 mean, we have a we had a special visa during the Balkan War for 160 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,480 Muslims fleeing who needed a place to go because of like they were, you 161 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,519 know, in danger, you know, in some in one of those countries, 162 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:05,759 forgo Slavia, and we we opened the door for I think Bosnian Muslims 163 00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:11,440 like a special category. We had a special visa for that. During Isis, 164 00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:16,159 we tried to get a special visa for Christians who were fleeing Isis who 165 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,240 were being targeted like gun to the head, you know, convert or die, 166 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:26,399 that kind of thing. And I mean there was I met a woman, 167 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:31,879 her and her husband took two separate cars with two like one of them 168 00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:37,960 each took a kid in hopes that they would like maybe get together at the 169 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,120 very end as they were fleeing Isis and the husband and the kid that was 170 00:13:43,159 --> 00:13:48,639 with the husband. They didn't make it. That's that's and the United States 171 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,879 didn't care. He didn't care at all. So, like you know, 172 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,039 Tucker, I would love it. You know, if you want to lend 173 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,879 your voice, anybody else wants to lend their voice to help me make the 174 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:07,559 case for Christian persecution around the world, I'm all game. I mean, 175 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,519 there's a verse in the New Testament where Saint Paul says, do good to 176 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:18,120 all men, but first the household of faith, And I mean I used 177 00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:20,919 that verse old. I got an argument with the former pastor of mine one 178 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,879 time, and he's like, well, you know, we just can't let 179 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,840 Christianity become tribal. You know, the Jews are standing for the Jews, 180 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:31,519 and the Muslims are standing for the Muslims. But Christians we just can't stand. 181 00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:35,720 We just can't stand just for Christians because then we're just like them and 182 00:14:35,759 --> 00:14:43,080 we're not like you know, ecumenical or whatever the right right, and no, 183 00:14:43,639 --> 00:14:50,120 Paul says, first, like of course, like you got to start 184 00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:54,279 somewhere. How about you know we're welcoming all these people into the faith. 185 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,279 Hey, come, become a brother and sister in Christ and then but hey, 186 00:14:58,559 --> 00:15:01,799 if you do, just know that you know we're not going to help 187 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,840 you if you get in trouble though, sorry about that. You know we 188 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:11,919 have brothers and sister but we leave buy. This is Molly Hemingway of the 189 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,600 Federalist Join me, my husband, Mark of Real Clear Investigations, twelve time 190 00:15:16,679 --> 00:15:22,679 All American Swimmer, Riley Gaines, Aaron Wren of The American Conservative, and 191 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:28,519 others for the twenty twenty four Making the Case Conference Friday July twelfth and Saturday 192 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:35,039 July thirteenth at Concordia University, Chicago. Learn more at Issues etc. Dot 193 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:41,080 org. Making the Case July twelfth and thirteenth in Chicago, Issues etc. 194 00:15:41,559 --> 00:15:48,919 Dot Org. There's so much to go off with it, and actually one 195 00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:52,320 of the places that I want to talk about I was thinking, in the 196 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,320 context of this current debate about immigration, I'm so glad you brought this up. 197 00:15:56,039 --> 00:16:00,320 The footage of Chinese migrants coming out across the border right now. Some 198 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,279 of them are saying, I don't know if their asylum claims are accurate. 199 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,440 But some of them are saying they're Christians that are fleeing persecution from China, 200 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,480 and what we're doing is just encouraging everyone to kind of come in and get 201 00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:18,120 lost in this asylum system instead of saying here's a special route for persecuted Christians 202 00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:23,279 or even persecuted Muslims, which we're not doing. But that I guess calls 203 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:30,240 to mind what you were talking about with the Yazidis. And there are probably 204 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:36,480 other Christian populations throughout the recent wars in the Middle East that have been decimated, 205 00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:38,519 like the CDs that I don't even know about even as a journalist that 206 00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:41,679 I don't even know about, and a Christian journalist that I don't even know 207 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,759 about. Can you tell us, can you give us some background on what 208 00:16:44,879 --> 00:16:48,360 happened over the course of the last couple of decades to Christian populations like the 209 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,320 Eazid's in the Middle East. Well, these are not Christians, but they're 210 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,159 like, they're like a bad Muslim. They have so explaining that. Yeah, 211 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:56,799 they're like, so it's going to like an offshoot. Yeah, yeah, 212 00:16:56,879 --> 00:17:03,240 it's an offshoot. Man, put me on the spot here only it's 213 00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:07,960 been a long time as I looked at with the like basically they are they're 214 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:12,079 seen by other Muslims as being apostate. I mean that, like they don't 215 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:17,119 they didn't you know, they created some you know, they have their own 216 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,359 special prophet. Yeah, the prophet Muhammad's their guy, but they got this 217 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,480 other guy too. Like it's kind of one of those types of things, 218 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:29,400 a bit like the Alla Whites have a similar there, that's the Assad family. 219 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:33,920 They're part of that. Like it's some of these kind of they're they're 220 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,759 they're kind of weird Muslims, right, they have their own special belief in 221 00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:42,680 As a result, they had a special mountain in Iraq that you know, 222 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:47,680 they were in a particular area in northern Iraq, and when Isis came, 223 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:55,680 they targeted them. They targeted the Christians and they really like carried off thousands 224 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:02,319 of easy to girls to be Muslim slaves and the rest of the region and 225 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,920 a lot of them have never been seen again. And but you know, 226 00:18:07,079 --> 00:18:12,960 the United States actually recognized what happened to the diseases as a genocide, but 227 00:18:14,079 --> 00:18:18,880 when we asked them to recognize Christians, the attacks of the decimation of the 228 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,400 Christian community. The State Department was like, no, no, we're not 229 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,440 going to do that. So we actually sued them. We actually we were 230 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:30,440 part of the coalition of organizations that sued the State Department to recognize the Christians 231 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,799 as being victims of genocide under Isis because it was like, no, well 232 00:18:33,799 --> 00:18:38,720 the Christians they don't count right. It's like there really is a animus towards 233 00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:45,839 Christianity in most institutions, it seems, the government institutions, and they just 234 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:51,640 don't have any power anywhere. But you know, I know that the challenge 235 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:57,160 is is that there isn't I mean, I'll be all for you know, 236 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:03,279 having some special designations, having you know, a special way for Christians to 237 00:19:03,279 --> 00:19:07,519 come in. But the other problem is that, you know, when when 238 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:12,359 Trump came into to office in twenty seventeen, one of the first things he 239 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:18,480 did was he issued that executive order saying that we're going to limit like immigration 240 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:26,400 from from these Muslim countries in particular that we're basically failed states and unable to 241 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:32,039 help us evaluate who was coming in. And he said in that executive order, 242 00:19:32,519 --> 00:19:38,160 with the exception of religious minorities, okay, and the there was a 243 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:44,240 bunch of Christians. A bunch of Christian organizations that took a swipe at that, 244 00:19:44,319 --> 00:19:47,440 like they had to get there, you know, the their dig into 245 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,839 Trump, right, and so they took a full page ad in the Washington 246 00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:55,400 Post saying, you know, it's terrible, this is you know, we 247 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,079 we you know, we're called as Christians to love our neighbor, and you 248 00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:06,200 know, this is a terrible thing. And I'm like, Trump literally singled 249 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:11,279 out Christians as being able to be an exception here. How about we focus 250 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,559 on helping Christians come And they're like you no, no, no, we 251 00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:19,440 can't do that. And it it to this day like I have, I 252 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:25,000 have. It just killed my calleries for most of the people involved in the 253 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,960 uh you know, the refugee resettlement cases on the Christian side, because they 254 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,200 were I just watched over and over again how they just had no regard for 255 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,920 what was happening to Christians in the region. And it's it's not gotten any 256 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:45,079 better. And the problem is, like you do have this is happening just 257 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,599 recently in Gaza, people were saying there was a bunch of reports early on, 258 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,839 within the first month and a half or so, you know, where 259 00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:57,920 people were saying that they had seen visitations of Jesus and they were getting dreams 260 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,880 and there was you knowundreds of Gosins were coming to faith. And I asked 261 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,559 the past and the pastor about that. I said, oh, you know, 262 00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:10,880 we hear that. You know, all these Gosins are coming to faith. 263 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,400 And he goes, yeah, yeah, I don't believe that they're just 264 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,799 trying to get out. They're just trying to they like they they know that 265 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,440 they can say Christian and we you know, we had a dream of Jesus 266 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:26,759 and then like they get fast tracked to America or something like that. He 267 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:33,680 said, does that happen? I'm assuming because saying pastor by knows better than 268 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,160 me. I mean, I do believe that people do see visions of Jesus 269 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,039 and they get saved, oh of course, but that they would get relocated 270 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,119 through the nonprofits or something. It would it would probably help out their cause 271 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,400 a bit, if you know, someone like vouched for them and some nonprofit 272 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,480 would help pay for the leader, okay or whatever. And this and this 273 00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:57,519 pastor was like the people he knows who are real who became real followers of 274 00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:03,359 Jesus, there be they're big concern. They don't want to leave. They 275 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,400 want to stay and evangelize, And I'm like, okay, that's a big 276 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,759 difference, right, But this is hard over there? How do you get 277 00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:17,480 so like this is this is such a basic and maybe seemingly silly question, 278 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,240 but how do you sort fact from fiction on this issue? Because you live 279 00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:26,720 in the States, you've been there many many times, But for the layman, 280 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,240 even again, like even in media, it's very very hard, especially 281 00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:34,160 within you know, twenty four hour periods, to understand exactly what happened in 282 00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:41,759 various situations because there's so much propaganda and disinformation willfully and unwillfully. How do 283 00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:48,359 you just personally follow this and feel confident in the facts? Yeah, well 284 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,640 at this point because I've been in it so long that I kind of just 285 00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:53,920 you know, kind of know and you know people, and I know people. 286 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,319 But early on my rule was I don't believe any of y'all, like 287 00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:04,200 you know, like I'm I just distrust. It's a high bar of distrust. 288 00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:08,519 Like you really have to convince me, you know. I remember once 289 00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:15,119 one one time a friend sent me a picture of there was a there was 290 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,400 a group coming out a group of Christians coming out of Saint George's church, 291 00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:22,960 I think somewhere, and I don't know. It was from Allar Jerusalem or 292 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,359 some East Rusalem somewhere, and there was rocks being thrown at down and somebody 293 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,319 sent me the YouTube saying, hey, like the Christians are under attack, 294 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,200 you know, by the Muslims, and that a Christian was stabbed. And 295 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:41,960 so I started reaching out to my friends on the ground saying, like, 296 00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:48,240 what happened, And the story of what happened was like, you know, 297 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,319 it was it was a Christian who was stabbed. No, it was a 298 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:52,759 Muslim who was stabbed. No, it was that, you know, and 299 00:23:52,839 --> 00:23:55,839 he was stabbed and died. And then the other one was, no, 300 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,279 he's stabbed and he's in the hospital, and it's like or they weren't stabbed, 301 00:23:59,319 --> 00:24:03,200 And like there was so many There was no less than five or six 302 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,960 different stories about what happened. And there was a video, there was lily 303 00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:10,920 a video of the like people hiding from the rocky What found that The story 304 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:17,640 was is that there was a group of eighteen year old dudes sitting on a 305 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:25,759 railing Muslim dudes and the Christian girls walked by and they got ket call the 306 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:33,440 Muslim the Christian dudes started picked the fight with the Muslim dudes and one of 307 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,480 them got stabbed. So it was totally like, yeah, it was Christian, 308 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,960 but it was really just a bunch of eighteen year old dudes picking a 309 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,079 fight over girls. Like that's that's the actual story. That is such an 310 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,480 interesting example, Like it's yeah, it's like it literally made it to my 311 00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:53,079 inbox right like the the and I was ready to go, and I was 312 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,119 ready to throw down the rocks, you know, given chance, I couldn't 313 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,839 make one, you know, And and it turned out Yeah, no, 314 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:06,400 it's just dudes, just dud, dud. That is a really good example 315 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,720 though, because I'm sure similar things like that happened frequently as launched all the 316 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:15,200 time, all the time. Yeah, So, like I was in one 317 00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:21,000 of those like uh, you know, Friday afternoon skirmishes, if you will, 318 00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:25,000 Like on Friday in Bethlehem, I was in actually it's the same one 319 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,799 of those conferences where I was hanging out with month Isaac who was interviewed by 320 00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:34,200 by Tucker uh. And I was at this hotel that was right by the 321 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:40,440 wall where refugee kids would come out on Friday afternoon after the mosque let out. 322 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,920 They would have the kafias wrapped around their faces and their sling shots in 323 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:51,000 hand, and they would just start rocking knocking the the the door of the 324 00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:56,440 IDF guys, and pretty soon that door would open and I would come the 325 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,920 IDF guys and this you know, next thing to your guys and flash bang 326 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,519 and all that sort of stuff, And after about two hours, everybody's like, 327 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,119 all right, see you next week. I mean literally, that's exactly 328 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,920 how it felt. It was an international incident, but it was basically what 329 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,960 you're gonna do on Friday, Oh you know, you know I want to 330 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:22,160 go, you know, throw the rocks at the Jews or throw throw smoke 331 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,720 bombs at the past India. I mean like that's and it and that like 332 00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:33,559 happened every Friday. It was like a normal just it almost felt like people 333 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:40,039 letting off steam. Problem is like that escalates and if there's external media, 334 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,799 then then the pictures and then it starts. Oh you know, it's it 335 00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:48,240 can get a little out of control. But it seemed very much that the 336 00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:52,839 times I was in it, it seemed like everybody's just kind of knows what 337 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,039 they're they're doing the Monday and kind of rhythm of that area. Yeah, 338 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,759 and it's almost really I'm telling you, like, there's I mean there's You're 339 00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:06,839 talking to eighteen year old boys on both sides right right, like nobody's dying. 340 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,720 They're just kind of messing around. You've been an eighteen year old boy. 341 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,960 I have been an eighteen year old boy. Sometimes I'm a thirteen year 342 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,480 old boy in my hit. But you know it's the it's the eighteen year 343 00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:22,480 old boys. Like, yeah, I'd be on either side, I'd be 344 00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:26,400 there. You know. So back to month or Isaac. You just mentioned 345 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,640 that you've known him, and one of the kind of dunks on Tucker that 346 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,519 frankly was fair after he posted that long interview with month Isaac, is that 347 00:27:36,599 --> 00:27:41,000 you know a lot of people knew month or Isaac because he gave that speech 348 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,720 around Christmas that went viral about Jesus in the rebble of Bethlehem. But going 349 00:27:45,759 --> 00:27:52,480 back right after October seventh, he referred to the siege, the Israeli siege. 350 00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:56,359 He kind of you know, he said, we condemned murder and everything. 351 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,880 But basically, you know, typical leftist argument. His church is so 352 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,880 I grew up Missouri, Sin and Lutheran he's affiliated kind of with ALCA in 353 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,279 the American side, the Evangelical Lutheran Church for America. But is clearly and 354 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,440 you're going to be able to explain this better, but he's clearly from a 355 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:21,559 progressive, a progressive branch of the church in because I have familiarity with him, 356 00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:25,880 is that he led for the ordination of women. Tell us it just 357 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,440 filling the many dots that I just left, right. I love I love 358 00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:34,039 the international infrastructure of the Lutheran Church. Let me tell you about it. 359 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,799 Yes, he is. Here's the thing is that he actually has become more 360 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:47,880 progressive over the years that I've known him. Okay, like he was he 361 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,599 he became a serious believer, you know, actually as more as an adult 362 00:28:52,839 --> 00:29:00,799 and got more into it, and he would I think the progressive I think 363 00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:04,759 got pushed on him. And by progressivism, I mean the kind of language 364 00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:11,200 of the wokeism, like the woke language things like you know, the settler 365 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:18,880 colonialists, the appeal to the indigenity, like thee like the language of the 366 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:25,319 left. He started using that a lot more, and I would say in 367 00:29:25,359 --> 00:29:30,319 the last four or five years, like like, he's to me indistinguishable from 368 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:36,599 a you know, progressive professor, any kind of like liberal Christian institution. 369 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:42,200 It's like, you know, the Last christis the checkpoint that I attended. 370 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:48,160 There was only about seventy people there. I was not well received, and 371 00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:56,519 there was a you know, the accession was like the Book of Ruth, 372 00:29:56,599 --> 00:30:02,440 a story of sexual exploitation. Like course of course, yes, this is 373 00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:07,680 perfect exactly what you know, which is like you would find that, you 374 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,000 know anywhere, you know, at a progressive seminary or something like that. 375 00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:17,079 So he's not always been that way, he has become more and more that 376 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,920 direction he is. There's only like I don't think that is very neat. 377 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,200 People actually go to his church and his you know, baby Jesus in the 378 00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:30,880 Rubble thing got a lot of traction all over the media, huge, huge 379 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:37,000 story, and to me, the issue with that was it's very much you 380 00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:42,279 know, for all the crying of cultural appropriation, it was serious cultural appropriation 381 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:48,680 to take baby Jesus the Jew and put him in a rubble and wrapping him 382 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,240 with cafel, right, and like, make no reference to the fact that 383 00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:56,319 you are in Bethlehem, the city of David, the Jewish city of David, 384 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:03,119 where Mother Mary and Joseph WinCE, you know, to register right like 385 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,519 that, that is it's so weird to me. That was like, oh, 386 00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:12,079 okay, it's totally acceptable for us to culturally appropriate Jesus for this moment. 387 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:18,599 Put them in rubble. Now does Jesus uh stand with those who are 388 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:25,599 suffering and justly in God's a percent? Right? But Jesus is Jewish. 389 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:34,279 And if if part of your actions are to kill the people whom which Jesus 390 00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:38,319 was part of, I guess some issues there, right. It just is 391 00:31:38,359 --> 00:31:45,519 not It's like that. There's there's a you know, injustice is getting what 392 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:52,480 you're doing right, and it comes around, you know, debt. It 393 00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:56,160 keeps you tossing and turning at night. 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In 410 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:28,119 Iran over the weekend obviously launched an attack on Israeli soil, not from a 411 00:33:28,119 --> 00:33:31,359 proxy, not through the who these or has Belah, but from Iran itself. 412 00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:37,640 Unprecedented in that respect. So that kind of brings into focus. What 413 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:43,079 the intended end goal is here? Because you know Iran really truly wants to 414 00:33:43,119 --> 00:33:50,119 destroy Israel? Yes, so why then is it that month or Isaac sees 415 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:57,480 this through maybe a micro perspective instead of a macro perspective. What explains someone 416 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,880 who would be killed by our onions or persecuted by Iranians? Should they you 417 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:07,319 know, have their fantasy of their own imperialism destroying Israel, wiping off the 418 00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:13,239 face of the earth. What's this deal? Well, I think so he 419 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:20,039 has the I mean the challenge for the Palestinian who is still sticking around in 420 00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:27,280 best way is like it really does them no favors to support Jews or Israel, 421 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:31,679 Like it's like no one's like like Israel doesn't care. The Christians around 422 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:37,159 the world, they don't care. But you know who really cares the Muslims, 423 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:44,880 right right, Like you will? You will? You could die for 424 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,880 what like it's not worth it, right, And so if that's your starting 425 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,280 point, like it doesn't do any favors to come out and support of Israel 426 00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:59,519 or or Jews or Christians sorry or Jews, then you're not going to do 427 00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:05,280 it. And then like it just becomes kind of normal like your normal everybody 428 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,880 around you, and it's to protect you know, your your flock is to 429 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,719 say the things that keep them safe, and the things that keep them safe 430 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,639 is Israel sucks, right, And so you just start saying that all the 431 00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:23,800 time, and over time it begins to like, you know, like it's 432 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:34,280 becomes normal and normative for you to speak in favor of the Muslims who rule 433 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,239 your life. I mean, I was with a I was with a Catholic 434 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:44,000 priest one time in Jordan, and it actually it was a we interviewed. 435 00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:47,679 I had this group and we're interviewing a Catholic priest in a in a Muslim 436 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:57,360 cleric together, right, And the Catholic priest would not name the Temple Mount 437 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,800 the Temple Mount. He called it harmash Reef, which is what the Muslims 438 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,519 call it. And I said, why don't you call the Temple Mount the 439 00:36:05,559 --> 00:36:07,840 Temple Mount? He said, well, it doesn't matter. I was like, 440 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:14,519 when Jesus went up, where did he go? Well it it doesn't 441 00:36:14,519 --> 00:36:17,039 matter. It's not that you know, it's it's what's important, is you 442 00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:22,119 know? And he just would not. I pushed him and it was clear 443 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:29,079 that he just couldn't do it because it wasn't it just it wouldn't do any 444 00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:31,239 favors, Like why do that? Why why I pick that fight? Right? 445 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:36,920 Everybody everybody makes risk of reword calculations. Sure, Christians in the region 446 00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:40,880 make them in a direction that we often don't have to hear. And aren't 447 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:46,280 they used intentionally as propaganda? Har and they just don't. It's a risk 448 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,760 award calculation. It is. It is. And at some point, like 449 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,360 you are, I mean listen, if you're your Palastandi and you've gone like 450 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,039 you've already crossed that line of like I'm just gonna you know, protect my 451 00:36:57,079 --> 00:37:00,760 own first and like my my community and like then then it's you know, 452 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,760 you see what's happening in Gaza, and you come out like you're you're part 453 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,039 of you know, like we all order our lives, you know, and 454 00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:14,679 like priority, like order them. You know, my am I American first. 455 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,079 I'm a Christian first? Am I? You know? Am I? 456 00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:21,599 You know my my ancestors are like French and English or whatever? Am I 457 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:27,760 like? You know, my my Christian French American? Or am I French 458 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:34,400 American Christian? Like and and so I think a guy like Month has he's 459 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:39,239 like he's he's actually Palestinian first and then he's Christian, right, that's the 460 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:45,239 order in which he is has has chosen to align himself. And the thing 461 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,880 is, like, I know pastors over there who are who have done the 462 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:54,559 opposite, who identify as Christian first, and they face you know, a 463 00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:59,920 good bit of persecution, but I won't name them so that nobody hurts them. 464 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,920 People. And if you know, they're just doing the work on the 465 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,440 ground of the Gospel, right, helping the poor, taking care of their 466 00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:15,280 members, just trying to trying to hold it together, right. And they're 467 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:20,960 not out you know, in you know, giving statements to the International Court 468 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,320 of Justice how to stick it to the Jews, right, Like they're not 469 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,280 doing that. They're just doing the work of the Gospel. And if you 470 00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:30,199 like at that point, really I don't care what you think about Israel and 471 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,599 Jewish people, because you're doing the hard work of the Gospel, right. 472 00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:39,519 But if you like, the reason that I feel fine to go after the 473 00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:44,639 month or is because not only do I know him, and we've had lots 474 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:51,119 of these conversations face to face, we've had fun ones. But it's like 475 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,039 he has chosen how he orders himself, and he is he has chosen to 476 00:38:55,159 --> 00:39:00,519 order himself as the palace in need first and be himself to be used by 477 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:07,239 the Muslims and by Hamas specifically to make their case to the world. And 478 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:13,719 he's been doing it aggressively. And he's on you know, he was you 479 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,199 know, he was on piece Now's page, and now he's speaking the Tucker 480 00:39:17,639 --> 00:39:22,800 and I have friends who messaged me is like, well, that horseshoe theory, 481 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:28,480 really that's funny. Well, that's actually though, I mean, I 482 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,960 think you can that's that's a version an explanation, a version of the explanation 483 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,800 that makes so much sense because you can see how in somebody's mind they would 484 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,119 order those priorities with the kind of what they see as a virtuous goal of 485 00:39:40,119 --> 00:39:45,800 protecting their community, protecting this ancient community, this in the case of Piferus, 486 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,639 this beautiful church, et cetera. That's super interesting. No, and 487 00:39:50,159 --> 00:39:57,480 it is you know, listen, I have I feel I feel terrible for 488 00:39:57,559 --> 00:40:01,519 the plight of the Palestinians. Know, it really does, is really hard 489 00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:06,760 for them, and it's even it just it got a lot harder after October 490 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,480 seventh, and they are they're in a difficult spot. They're in a bund 491 00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:15,199 right and and like I said, a bunch of them have chosen to leave. 492 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,159 But the ones that have chosen to stick around, there are some that 493 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,599 are like, we're going to you know, we're just we feel like we're 494 00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:29,239 called to be here and called to remain and be faithful. And and then 495 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,280 there are you know, there's there's Christians who are like one of the weird 496 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:38,360 thing is is that there are Christians who self identifies Christians because of the familial 497 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:45,960 background of like my family's been Christians for a thousand years, right, Like 498 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:50,400 that's our people. We're part of the Christian people. But they're atheists. 499 00:40:50,519 --> 00:40:53,559 I was getting my haircut in Nazareth one time, and I asked, a 500 00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:58,000 great way to start a story, I know, and I asked the barber, 501 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,519 I said, are you are you Christian and Moslim? You goes? 502 00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:02,800 I'm Christian? So what church do you go to? Church? I'm an 503 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:08,800 atheist. And I think it's really hard for Americans to consider because we are 504 00:41:09,159 --> 00:41:14,960 like for us, like the Christian label is a matter of faith, whereas 505 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:20,000 in a lot of places in particularly in the Middle East, like religion is 506 00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:23,639 a part of identity. It's part of like you know, the fertility rate 507 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:30,320 of of in Iran is super low. It's one of the it's like you 508 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,400 put it on part with like Club med which is the lowest, one of 509 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:37,440 the lowest in Europe. And one of the factors is that secular people don't 510 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,880 have babies, which is which is true, is lots of lots of statistics 511 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,760 and data backing that up. Which means that you have all these people who 512 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:52,719 are outwardly religious, meaning the women wearing the huge job the like you know, 513 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,800 they'll do Ramadan, they'll do all the stuff. They're like, but 514 00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:00,440 they they're not into it there, they're just going through the but they're like 515 00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:07,119 they're they're essentially atheists or just not they're they're nons. They're like the nouns 516 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:13,280 of of the of the region, like theres not embracing it. And so 517 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:20,559 you know, it's you have a lot of that also there in Israel and 518 00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:25,239 the Palestinian territories. It's it's not so it's just not so cut and dry. 519 00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:29,400 And I think we you know, we look at it from over here 520 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,800 and go, you know, as as Tucker, did you know, man, 521 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:37,639 if you if you're if you're supporting you know, the country that's blown 522 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,519 up churches and and killing Christians. You know, you've lost the message. 523 00:42:43,159 --> 00:42:45,119 You know, I would agree to that. I would agree that if that's 524 00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:52,159 what's happenings, that's not what's happening. It's like it's it's it's much more, 525 00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:59,199 it's much more complicated, like it's tribal, and it's very different than 526 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,079 it is here in the United States. But at the same time, it's 527 00:43:02,119 --> 00:43:08,400 also I don't think it's hard for I think it shouldn't be hard for Christians 528 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:15,199 to actually take a stand and say, who's really causing the problems to the 529 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:21,760 Christian community in the region. It's not the Jews macro perspective, it is 530 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,760 clearly not the Jews, right, And you'd rather live in Israel than Irun 531 00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:30,199 exactly. And there's a saying among the Islamis first to Saturday people than the 532 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:37,519 Sunday people. I was standing on a bridge in northern Iraq. Well that 533 00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:44,599 was a long time and I was talking to an older Iraqi gentleman who said 534 00:43:44,679 --> 00:43:49,320 he remembers playing with he remembers playing with the Jews when he was young. 535 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,360 And he said to us, and this was you know, a city emptied 536 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:59,840 of Christians because of ices. He said, I wish I knew then what 537 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,119 I know now, meaning like I wish I knew that they were coming for 538 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:09,559 us next, because we would maybe prepared differently, taking things, had different 539 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:19,559 like calculations. It's not it's it's like the fact is is that here in 540 00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:23,679 the United States, when the Prohamas rally started, you know, in October, 541 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,440 it was like, oh, it's you know, Israel and the Jews 542 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,159 and whatever. But like I mean, they literally protested the Rockefeller Christmas tree 543 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:37,480 lighting. There was in Dallas, there was a Christmas tree lighting in a 544 00:44:37,559 --> 00:44:45,519 mall and they Palestinian or the mos activists stopped that. The you know you 545 00:44:45,559 --> 00:44:52,000 haven't Newsom canceled the Christmas tree lighting and in California said it was because of 546 00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:54,400 you know, the threats, probably just because he didn't want to do it. 547 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:59,199 You know, it's busy that night, you know, at dinner or 548 00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:04,679 something. French laundry, laundry was calling the reservation. Couldn't get out of 549 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,760 it a long time. You don't want to give that up. No, 550 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:12,000 it's takes a long time. You want us right, but it's it's still 551 00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:15,760 like there was this clear shift between it's not just about the Jews, and 552 00:45:16,039 --> 00:45:22,360 to me, it's you know that to me, the the root of anti 553 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:28,599 Semitism, the root of this like irrational Jew hatred, is that the Jews 554 00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:32,320 were the people by which God brought has moral revelation into this world, and 555 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:38,800 the world hates him for it. Like like we we we know things like 556 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:44,719 all people are made in the image of God because of the books that the 557 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,920 Jews gave to the world and that the Christians then picked up and spread all 558 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,679 over the place, right like, we're just inconvenient by the way to us 559 00:45:52,679 --> 00:45:57,199 as human beings, human being right, right, and we don't want that 560 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,880 we like we you know, are the New Testament talks about the love of 561 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:06,159 darkness, right like, we don't want to be exposed and we we actually 562 00:46:06,679 --> 00:46:13,199 like to you know, hate each other, right, And so when we're 563 00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,880 told to love one another one like, we're told to not hate each other, 564 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:21,920 we're told to live right by people that comes out of that book. 565 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:27,800 And if you're you don't want that, then you're gonna like it's you know, 566 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,679 there's a a lot of people been talking to me over the last couple 567 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:37,199 of weeks about this unity of what they're calling the Red and the Green right, 568 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:44,239 like the the Marxist communists and the you know Islamists lighting up together. 569 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:49,440 You know, they wouldn't be friends in other places are united and shutting down 570 00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:53,280 you know, bridges and airports. I mean, it's like, wrote a 571 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:59,880 book on that right and it's and it's that's to me the moment we're in, 572 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:04,719 and it makes it civilizational. And what makes it so frustrating to me 573 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:13,119 that of all the people that Tucker could have interviewed in you know, Israel, 574 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,760 Palistini interritor or it's like, okay, you did the Palestinian territories, 575 00:47:16,199 --> 00:47:20,280 but he asked him about Israel a month. Doesn't know anything about it, 576 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,719 Christians and Israel because he's not there, right, And instead he's you know, 577 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,639 he interviews somebody from interview a Christian in Israel, and they'll tell you, 578 00:47:29,039 --> 00:47:31,800 they'll give you a different story. You got to hear all the sides. 579 00:47:32,199 --> 00:47:36,559 But that's not what he did. And Plus, at the same time, 580 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:45,719 the real core problem is this unifying of the Red and the Green against 581 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,960 civilization, against the people who affirm the Bible. That's what the fight is 582 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:58,840 here. And either we can be like uniting to be people like we're the 583 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,639 people who are united and believe that the Bible is a blueprint for human flourishing. 584 00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:07,639 Come together to say, hey, this is no this is like civilization 585 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:15,559 comes like we're rooted in this book. We know things like civil disobediences is 586 00:48:16,119 --> 00:48:21,639 we understand civil disobedience is a good thing. Because of that. Where's the 587 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,519 like the you know, if it wasn't for the Jews would never have embraced 588 00:48:24,519 --> 00:48:30,320 that, right because you have stories like the wind not the midwives in the 589 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,840 you know, in the time of Moses at the beginning of the Book of 590 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,599 Exodus, or you know the chad Rack Mishak and Bendigo and the fiery furnace, 591 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:43,480 right, like the details rendering of that is indullible. By the way, 592 00:48:43,559 --> 00:48:46,239 I have no doubt. I have no doubt. And and you have 593 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:55,039 this those where God affirms civil disobedience, that doesn't happen in any other like 594 00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:01,440 cultural institution out there. Things like difference yeah, well also, but the 595 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:09,480 difference between nations and empire, right like God affirms nations all through the Bible. 596 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:15,199 God never affirms empire right like he actually gives the boundaries to digital and 597 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:22,840 mostes hears your boundaries be right because you're a nation limiting where the empires is 598 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:29,000 just like ever growing. So it's never there's never the affirmation of empires, 599 00:49:29,039 --> 00:49:34,800 always the affirmation of nations. That difference comes out of the Hebrew Bible, 600 00:49:35,559 --> 00:49:39,760 like like you know, the New Testament is about interpersonal relationships. It's about 601 00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:45,159 husbands, love your wives and fathers. Don't exasperate your children, and like 602 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:52,880 these relationships, you know, be like loved one kind Like this kind of 603 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:58,159 of interpersonal relationships is essential. Like much of the New Testament is kind of 604 00:49:58,199 --> 00:50:02,519 talking about that kind of thing, whereas the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible 605 00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:07,960 is about like nation building. How do you how do you build a community 606 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:15,119 and live together in peace? And there's this great there's this great picture in 607 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,880 the Book of Isaiah, second chapter where like basically the nations come up to 608 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,480 Jerusalem, they learn of the God of Jacob, right, they learn of 609 00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:27,719 the law, and then God will judge between people, and then they will 610 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,400 turn their swords into pleasures and the spears into premnting books. It's me it's 611 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:37,360 a progression of you learn of this book, this book of human flourishing, 612 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:43,159 and if you adopt it. It brings peace, It brings the peace that 613 00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:45,920 you're after. But we live in a world where people don't want to read 614 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,920 that book anymore, and yet they want peace. You know, Like my 615 00:50:51,679 --> 00:50:54,920 daughter's you know, all she's graduating out of high school, but all through 616 00:50:54,960 --> 00:51:05,199 her public education, every gymnasium and cafeteria had like you know, written on 617 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,639 the walls, kindness counts, don't bully, you know, be nice, 618 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:16,679 right, all of these some these are very biblical concepts and dress of its 619 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:22,880 roots. Right, and and ozgenis the public theologian has this great ideas, 620 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:27,800 like you said, like we're a cut flower generation. Right, It's like 621 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,199 this, we're like cut flowers in a vase. We don't we've been separated 622 00:51:31,199 --> 00:51:37,280 from our roots and we're and we're struggling to understand why we're falling apart because 623 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:42,320 we were like we got all the pretty parts, you know what we did, 624 00:51:42,519 --> 00:51:45,679 and then you know, COVID didn't help, and you know, and 625 00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:50,039 then the conflicts and you know, it's where we were withering flowers. Right. 626 00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:54,320 The water is getting a little dirty and steaky, and and it's we're 627 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,719 we we gotta we gotta get back to that. To me, we got 628 00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:05,000 to get back to the roots, and it's understanding like it's I would say, 629 00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:09,119 it's almost landed. That's why it's me that's so valuable for Christians to 630 00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:15,880 visit Jerusalem, like to go to this place and stand it and recognize that 631 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:21,840 God chose a place and the people on this earth to make that known to 632 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:30,840 the world, and maybe they still matter. I'm baking. All they want 633 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:35,400 to do is keep you poor and stupid. The watch Doot on Wall Street 634 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,840 podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day, Chris helps unpack the connection between politics 635 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,880 and the economy and how it affects your wallet. Some of the media are 636 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,800 trying to tell you it's bad if your prices go down, causing a deflation 637 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,679 spiral. If prices go down, are people really going to hold off on 638 00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,760 buying things? Doesn't everyone need groceries. Whether it's happening in DC or down 639 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,639 on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check out the 640 00:52:57,639 --> 00:53:00,360 Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski, Apple, Spotify, or wherever 641 00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:07,280 you get your podcasts. I love the metaphor of the flowers in the base 642 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,360 because another part of that is you're just sort of floating right you're not tithered 643 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:15,360 to a root. You're floating in the water and you don't even know where 644 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:19,760 you are right. You know, a lot of my friends on the left 645 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:25,800 have these caricatures of why Christians care about Israel, and these are caricatures that 646 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:31,159 you're very familiar with, and I'm sure you confront all the time. I 647 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:35,800 imagine you know, they would listen to what you said about how Christians are 648 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,840 less landed and say, what do you mean. I hear these like wild 649 00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:45,039 end Times pastors that are at the forefront of this Christian nationalism rising movement that 650 00:53:45,079 --> 00:53:49,719 Donald Trump is going to usher into the White House and you know, rebuild 651 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:57,840 the Temple and all that. In your interactions with Israel, the country, 652 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,239 the government at Felos, which I'm imagining of great relationships with a lot of 653 00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:06,760 people in Israel, is that ever an issue? Is that you know, 654 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:12,880 if you were responding to somebody on the left, does that define the Christian 655 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,519 approach to Israel? No? No, I mean you actually have a great 656 00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:20,679 piece in the most about this from years ago that we dug up before we 657 00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,119 started recording you. No, it's it's that is so, it's so much 658 00:54:24,159 --> 00:54:28,760 of the assumption is oh like, actually, you know, I was, 659 00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,719 you know, weeks ago with with one of the famous Christian nationalists and he's 660 00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,519 like, Louke, you must be you know, I'm not a dispensationalist, 661 00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:38,639 and you know, like you and I'm like, well, I'm not a 662 00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:43,639 dispensationalist either. And this has been for those who don't know, dispensationalism is 663 00:54:43,679 --> 00:54:47,000 one of the like premiere End Times visions where Israel is very key in that. 664 00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:54,559 And but here's what's Here's Here's a weird thing, Emily is that over 665 00:54:54,599 --> 00:55:02,280 the last several years, the Third Temple thing is is becoming very popular, 666 00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:07,639 but not in Christian world, in the Jewish world, right, And I 667 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:12,639 was like I started getting you know, because I'm always curious, you know, 668 00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,960 I think about we're the arguments that that either people on the left or 669 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,599 even like Christians who don't support Israel, like, what is the arguments they're 670 00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:25,239 making? And I love to kind of like go explore that kind of those 671 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:30,000 issues on the ground, right, Like you know, I'm I love to 672 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,800 have conversations with people I'm not supposed to have conversations with, you know. 673 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,000 In two thousand and one, I spent two hours with the co founder of 674 00:55:37,039 --> 00:55:42,960 Hamas and a rooftop in Ramala. Yeah. I know, it's super's super 675 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,440 weird. Yeah yeah. Yeah. He had gotten out of jail for like 676 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:51,800 like a like a couple of weeks before, and I landed a meeting with 677 00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:53,679 him and it was fun. It was fun. Oh wait, I mean 678 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,360 fun as in like interesting and fun. And I like, I like good 679 00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,400 conversations. I mean, anybody wants So I didn't throw you off the room. 680 00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:06,079 I'm here and yeah no, it was like mind you was It was 681 00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,800 like a mob boss. So I was like, that's that's what it is. 682 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:15,039 The vibe very charismatic. You could see how he could draw people. 683 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,960 I mean it's like, you know, leadership in charisma really matter, right, 684 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,920 and you can see that. One of the things I was was scariy 685 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,599 about this third Temple thing, and I was like, so I reached out 686 00:56:25,639 --> 00:56:30,000 to my tour operator and I said, I want to meet the guy who 687 00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:34,320 wants to build a third temple, like introduce me to that. Guy answered 688 00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,039 like okay, And so they bring me to this place called the Temple Mount 689 00:56:37,119 --> 00:56:42,119 Institute and then we go in and we go around and it's all the parts. 690 00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:45,519 It's like the show, red table and this and the lamp stands and 691 00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:49,039 like all this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, but why, like 692 00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:51,320 because this is these are all Jews who are doing this. And I was 693 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,239 like, but make the case. Like and the person who was following, 694 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,639 you know, showing us around was you know, she was like a twenty 695 00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:00,960 year old girl and she's cool and all, but she couldn't explain to me, 696 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:07,280 like make the case from the Jewish perspective. And so I got out 697 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,800 my tour opper. I said, listen, I want to meet the guy 698 00:57:10,039 --> 00:57:13,840 who makes the case for the Third Temple. I want to hear it. 699 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:19,039 I want to hear the third And so they set up a lunch for me 700 00:57:19,599 --> 00:57:22,800 and I meet this guy and actually it was not just me, but I 701 00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:28,119 had my group with me and so everybody's part of this. And I, 702 00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,079 you know, he's telling me all about you know, it's his vision for 703 00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:34,840 it. You know, you asked him like, well, what about the 704 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,199 you know, there's there's a dome with the rock. It's kind of it's 705 00:57:38,239 --> 00:57:44,719 in the ways, and how's that going to you know, I just don't 706 00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:45,760 know. I don't know, I don't know how it's gonna like, but 707 00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,880 I just know that this was you know, I'm supposed to I was supposed 708 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,480 to be you know, working towards that, okay uh And I said, 709 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,119 well, how did you get into this? And he goes, well, 710 00:57:57,079 --> 00:58:00,000 I was. I was laying with my wife in bed and my wife says 711 00:58:00,039 --> 00:58:05,519 to me, you know, Bible says we're supposed to have a temple. 712 00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:09,079 What are you doing about that? And I was like, oh my gosh, 713 00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:14,159 how many how many warriors have started in this world because some dude's wife 714 00:58:14,199 --> 00:58:16,960 and next ms like, you know, you to take that, you know, 715 00:58:17,079 --> 00:58:22,480 like right is that you Hug's wife's laying next to him going like what 716 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:28,079 you know, like Komanie is gonna like let lone three hundred rockets at you 717 00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:32,239 and you got what nothing come on man? Right? Like I guarantee there's 718 00:58:32,239 --> 00:58:37,679 a lot of a lot of international incidents is because some dudes wives land at 719 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:44,760 going you take that. But the strange thing is it's become there like it's 720 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:49,000 a very big thing among amongst a certain sector of Jews. And I feel 721 00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,199 like that was catalyzed by the moving of the embassy that the start Trump administration 722 00:58:52,239 --> 00:58:54,280 moving. Then you'll again you're shaking your head. Now, No, no, 723 00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:59,960 it was before then, actually it was. It's it's there is a 724 00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:05,400 there has been for a while, a rising kind of it's called a Messianic 725 00:59:05,519 --> 00:59:10,679 movement within within within Judaism, and that we're in there when they're we're in 726 00:59:10,719 --> 00:59:16,519 the age of of Mishiah, of the Messiah. And you know, I 727 00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:22,199 don't think like, it's not like the Christians aren't driving this, like it's 728 00:59:22,239 --> 00:59:27,480 like that. It's if anything, it's the other way around. Like the 729 00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:30,239 Jews are are, you know, coming to the Christians and like saying, 730 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,039 hey, you know, can you help us with this kind of thing? 731 00:59:34,159 --> 00:59:37,239 And and a bunch of Christians are like, yeah, okay, that sounds 732 00:59:37,239 --> 00:59:40,280 fun, you know, but but it's not like definitive of the Christian No. 733 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:45,239 Not. Actually, I would say the majority of Christians, the majority 734 00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:49,079 of Christians in America, actually the majority of the Christians in the world. 735 00:59:49,719 --> 00:59:53,480 I don't think there's anything special about Israel and Jewish people and God's redemptive plant 736 00:59:53,679 --> 00:59:59,559 like this. Like I would say it's probably a sixty forty split, maybe 737 00:59:59,639 --> 01:00:04,920 it's thirty five, but it's in the direction of it's just you know, 738 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,239 Israel's Israel is to the Jews as Fiji is to the Fijians and French as 739 01:00:09,239 --> 01:00:14,119 to France, right right, like you know, it's just part of like 740 01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:16,679 it's the people is where they are. But it's not that like there's nothing 741 01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,000 special in God's plan, right, like God moved on. Like we would 742 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,920 as Americans want to protect the Washington Monument, we would want to protect this 743 01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:29,079 is this is our stuff, right yeah, we'd want to guess many we 744 01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:31,880 want to protect these things. But it's not but it's not we don't need 745 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:39,960 them to practice right right, they're not they're not necessarily uh theologically significant any 746 01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:44,639 longer. That's a huge group of American Christians. I would say it's the 747 01:00:44,679 --> 01:00:49,639 majority, much to my much of the consternation of my Christian zion As friends, 748 01:00:49,679 --> 01:00:52,360 if you think they actually have the majority, I mean all like that's 749 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:58,159 the Catholics. The Catholics don't think they're faythings, specially necessarily and like the 750 01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,599 you know, the Missouri Synod does think so. Actually the Lutherans in general 751 01:01:01,599 --> 01:01:07,880 don't think so. You know, the Baptists are played in half, you 752 01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,880 know some like you know, the non Denomns displayed in half, so you 753 01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:15,559 don't get this like it's not coming from this place of like there's this deep 754 01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:22,519 well of plans, you know. And and I actually was was talking to 755 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,039 a friend of mine about doing a podcast series called the Rise and Fall of 756 01:01:25,039 --> 01:01:29,079 Mars Hill. No, sorry, you did that, the Rise and Fall 757 01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:35,639 of the Left Behind series, right, because that was huge for a whole 758 01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:40,199 group of generation, definitely my generation, yeah generation right. I read them 759 01:01:40,239 --> 01:01:45,360 all to and you know, I remember sitting with a pastors the you know, 760 01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:50,119 the best and worst thing ever happened to dispensationalism was the Left Behind series 761 01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:53,239 because you know, everybody's like, I'm a dispensational and then they read the 762 01:01:53,239 --> 01:01:58,239 books like, oh, I'm not dispensational right like it was. It was. 763 01:01:58,639 --> 01:02:01,599 It was a huge swing. And actually I was talking to recently a 764 01:02:01,639 --> 01:02:05,440 worship guy and he was like, I was telling him that, he goes, 765 01:02:05,519 --> 01:02:09,320 oh, it actually would be called the Rise and Fall and Rise again 766 01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,719 of that bed. I was like, what do you mean and he said, 767 01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:16,920 well, actually, the most popular worship songs that are coming that are 768 01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:22,320 like growing in popularity all come out of the book a Revelation. I'm like, 769 01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:27,519 oh, that's interesting. So I don't know, Emily, I don't 770 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:32,639 I like the people project on me that like the reason that I'm in this 771 01:02:34,199 --> 01:02:39,320 because I have some grand end times planned. I don't. I don't. 772 01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:45,239 I mean, like you know, I actually don't think about it all that 773 01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:51,320 much. I am in this because I do think that there is something special 774 01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:57,000 that the Jews have to play in this, in this unfolding of God's plan. 775 01:02:57,599 --> 01:03:00,880 And I think the fact that Jews are going back to the land from 776 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,239 north to southeast and the west, back to the land that was promised to 777 01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,679 them as an everlasting covenant. When I when when I hear everlasting, I 778 01:03:08,639 --> 01:03:12,880 understand it to be everlasting, because that's what that would be, right, 779 01:03:13,559 --> 01:03:17,639 And so I'm in this because I think there's something special there all and all 780 01:03:17,679 --> 01:03:24,119 of our the whole New Testament is written by Jews, and so maybe there 781 01:03:24,239 --> 01:03:29,760 I should try and think about what does this mean for them? Right, 782 01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:35,199 Because I'm a gentile, I'm not Jewish, and I you know, I 783 01:03:35,519 --> 01:03:39,400 got I got I got grafted into this story. But it's really their story 784 01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,960 and I get to be a part of it, which is cool, but 785 01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:49,159 it's not my story. And I'm and I'm excited to see how it unfolds. 786 01:03:49,639 --> 01:03:54,239 And I and and I'm and I see this really strong connection between. 787 01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:59,320 Wow, it's like the world really hates the Jews and that's really weird, 788 01:04:00,119 --> 01:04:02,440 and then they hate the Christians too. Wonder Oh, maybe it's because we've 789 01:04:02,519 --> 01:04:06,480 got the same book, right, And then you know, there's you know, 790 01:04:06,519 --> 01:04:12,199 we're in Paul talks about Romans that were grafted in, like we're grafted 791 01:04:12,239 --> 01:04:18,159 into this story. Says in Romans nine that the root sustains you. You 792 01:04:18,159 --> 01:04:23,360 don't sustain the root, and he's talking to the Gentiles there and he thought 793 01:04:23,519 --> 01:04:28,119 the root being this like story of the Jewish of the Patriot, the story 794 01:04:28,639 --> 01:04:33,639 like thet the Covenants. And I'm like, oh, well, maybe, 795 01:04:33,719 --> 01:04:39,920 because like we're grafted into the blessings, maybe we're also grafted into this the 796 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:45,159 curses, which means that this hatred that follows the Jews everywhere they go. 797 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,039 And there is a point, you know, and then we hated them also 798 01:04:48,159 --> 01:04:51,280 for like two thousand years that I didn't help. But we're in this moment 799 01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:57,000 now and my hope is that you know, Christians will take a moment, 800 01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:00,440 take a step back and go, maybe there's something going on here. I 801 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,920 don't know how it unfolds. I'm actually I mean, I find it fascinating 802 01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:11,079 and I'm into the you know, having a good conversation over beer. But 803 01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,840 I'm not, like it's not the motivating factor, but it is for some 804 01:05:16,199 --> 01:05:19,360 and I don't I don't slight them for it. And I also don't you 805 01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:25,440 know, you know that all my friends who don't think there's anything special, 806 01:05:26,639 --> 01:05:30,039 I don't think that is by nature anti semitic. And forget me in trouble. 807 01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:33,199 Sure, no, no, that's fair. But because I don't think 808 01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:39,159 saying that the Jews are not special is anti semitic, right, I think 809 01:05:39,239 --> 01:05:43,480 that actually the point in which it makes anti semitic is to say they're they're 810 01:05:43,599 --> 01:05:46,239 extra bad, right, there's something especially bad, right, and they are 811 01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,679 the problem of the world. That is where you get anti Semitism. To 812 01:05:49,719 --> 01:05:53,960 say that there's nothing actually special about them, to me is not that. 813 01:05:54,239 --> 01:05:59,719 Actually I don't think that's particularly anti submittic. But I also think that I 814 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,239 do think there's about something special about them, and I think there's something special 815 01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:06,519 that God still has a plan for them. That's that's my that's my starting 816 01:06:06,559 --> 01:06:10,280 point. That's kind of I don' won't say it's my ending point, but 817 01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:15,519 it's it's it's why I do this. And I totally didn't expect I don't 818 01:06:15,559 --> 01:06:18,840 think I knew any Jews until twenty eleven. So it's a long time later. 819 01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,480 I know. I know it's a long time for young and it's like 820 01:06:21,559 --> 01:06:26,280 you, but for me, it was like I had I had a life 821 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:31,000 before then, you know, and and and I think it's yeah, I 822 01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:35,239 fell into this. I always thought people like when I looked at people who 823 01:06:35,239 --> 01:06:39,079 were like, really you know, zealous ra Israel and the Jews, like, 824 01:06:39,079 --> 01:06:43,639 oh man, it's weird people people here. I am freaking weirdo over 825 01:06:43,679 --> 01:06:46,519 here. Jews. Well, you know, this is a great place to 826 01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,800 ask the last question I wanted to do. Ask so I know that a 827 01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,519 fee of those you guys have done stuff with Nic Goneru, Cara Bac. 828 01:06:53,599 --> 01:06:56,280 I know you've done stuff in a rock. I know you've done stuff easily 829 01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,800 everywhere. And I just wanted to before I let you go, look, 830 01:07:00,159 --> 01:07:02,840 you to tell us a little bit about what philos does and what you see 831 01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,719 is the stakes for Christians in the Middle East and Northern Africa and all of 832 01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:11,360 those places that you guys are working. Yeah, I mean we are are 833 01:07:11,519 --> 01:07:15,400 taglines. We promote positive Christian engagement in the Near East. And we define 834 01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:18,880 the Near East if you draw a nine hundred mile radius out from Jerusalem, 835 01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:23,920 that puts you in the lands of the Bible, right, And you know, 836 01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:30,679 we started, we started this thing called Save Armenia to basically raise awareness 837 01:07:30,719 --> 01:07:34,039 about the problem that was going on with you know, Turkey and osba Jhan 838 01:07:34,159 --> 01:07:41,039 squeezing out the Armenians, because that's a big issue. And like, you 839 01:07:41,079 --> 01:07:46,679 know, Noah's arc was like where it landed was in Armenia, and then 840 01:07:46,719 --> 01:07:51,480 it was taken over by Turkey, but it's still like in the ethnic Armenian 841 01:07:51,519 --> 01:07:59,039 area. And here's this first, you know, one of these first Christian 842 01:07:59,119 --> 01:08:02,440 nations in the world, and they're just being squeezed by they squeezed by the 843 01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:09,320 same way that the Christians throughout the region are being squeezed. And so we 844 01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,320 started. You know, when we started, we were raising awareness about Christian 845 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:18,000 persecution all over the region. Isis was rising and the Christian communities were being 846 01:08:18,039 --> 01:08:27,199 decimated fourteen And it's weird how I'm like that the same thing is happening again, 847 01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:31,720 except like the Islamists are still strong and they've changed there. You know, 848 01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:35,720 it's not isis anymore. It's amas Or. I mean, there was 849 01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:41,880 a Christian in Lebanon that was a major Christian figure was he was killed last 850 01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:48,520 week, and the head of the Meyrinite Church in Lebanon, for perhaps one 851 01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:54,479 of the first time I'm aware of, actually came out against Hesbala and said, 852 01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,079 hey watch it. You know, we got guns to guys. I 853 01:08:57,119 --> 01:09:01,840 mean say that. That's me adding to it, but you know it's the 854 01:09:02,159 --> 01:09:06,520 you know, felos means friend in Greek. And our argument is that there 855 01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:11,560 are friends in the region. There are Christians, there are there are actually 856 01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:15,279 good Muslims, Muslims who aren't looking to kill Jews. I mean, you 857 01:09:15,279 --> 01:09:19,560 know, like the you know in the UAE and Bahrain and those countries that 858 01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:25,600 have chosen to normalize with Israel. Right, Like, you know, what 859 01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:30,800 if Israel was the model of the region instead of the problem of the region, 860 01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,359 right, And what's the models they have? You have religious liberty, 861 01:09:33,399 --> 01:09:40,000 you have freedom, you have a robust media, you have you know, 862 01:09:40,039 --> 01:09:44,600 the freedoms that we want to have here, you know, and and even 863 01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,840 if that doesn't happen, the Jews aren't going away, and there's something going 864 01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:53,680 on with God and them that I think is real and you know, and 865 01:09:54,039 --> 01:09:58,560 our roots are over there. It's like these churches are ancient, and you 866 01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:01,760 know, I still think that they have a special place to play in what 867 01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:08,520 God's doing in this world. And so we're very much about trying to you 868 01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:12,159 know, just muck about. We also have some you know, programming to 869 01:10:12,279 --> 01:10:15,920 engage the Spanish speaking world and the African Americans. We have those Catholic we 870 01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:21,359 have stuff that we do related to fighting anti Semitism here in the United States. 871 01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:27,680 But it's really it's really about, you know, let's let's get back 872 01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,159 to our roots, because you know, you get back to your roots, 873 01:10:30,239 --> 01:10:35,199 maybe we'll find the path out of this, you know, malaise that we're 874 01:10:35,199 --> 01:10:40,359 in. This you know, the flowers wilting, you know, and maybe 875 01:10:40,399 --> 01:10:45,000 we should change the water or put in the ground or something different than what 876 01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:49,399 we're doing. And so, yeah, my hope is my hope. It's 877 01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:54,199 for peace in the least I want that I want, but I know it's 878 01:10:54,199 --> 01:10:57,119 going to be one step at a time. And because I'm a Christian, 879 01:10:57,159 --> 01:11:00,279 I believe there's you got to lean into hope because I've seen I've seen too 880 01:11:00,399 --> 01:11:09,960 many things that in my life to be hopeless him Man Luke Moon, executive 881 01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:13,880 director of Philo's Project. Thank you so much. This has been fascinating. 882 01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:17,520 You've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Kashinski, 883 01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,159 culture editor here at The Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. 884 01:11:20,399 --> 01:11:28,079 Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the Fray. You got 885 01:11:28,239 --> 01:11:30,720 me all right, well, you know