WEBVTT 1 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:19.239 One hundred twenty five years ago, a dignified man with a prominent mustache made 2 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:26.719 the second notable discovery of his unique career, as it were. The dignified 3 00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:33.000 man was named Jacob Brower, and mister Brower had found a niche, a 4 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:40.520 niche for settling disputes, but unique disputes, disputes of origins, for want 5 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:44.439 of a better description. You see, there was that time, not too 6 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:49.600 terribly long ago, when we didn't know about the origins of many things. 7 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:53.880 In some respects were still in that time today, I guess, but I 8 00:00:54.039 --> 00:01:00.479 digress. The origins of the day were the reins of rivers, two of 9 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:07.480 them this nation's two largest rivers, which are also among the most mighty on 10 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:14.319 the planet, the Mississippi and the Missouri. But the origins of those waters, 11 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:17.920 the places where those rivers start, are far from mighty. They are 12 00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:23.280 humble. The headwaters of the mightiest raging fresh water in our land are nothing 13 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:30.200 but actually just tiny streams, And our mustached man, mister Jacob Brower, 14 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:36.159 was the first person to discover the actual headwaters of not only the Mississippi River 15 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:41.879 in Minnesota, but also the Missouri River in remote Montana. That is a 16 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:49.480 feat of naturalism that can't be equaled before or since. Brower actually traveled up 17 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.280 both of those waterways in his lifetime and did not stop until he reached the 18 00:01:53.400 --> 00:02:00.040 literal trickling spring beneath the land, from which eventually two massive tors of millions 19 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:13.759 of gallons came. This fantastic I think that any one person did such a 20 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:19.360 thing, not once, but twice. What an amazing storyteller this mustached mister 21 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:23.199 Brower might have been. But most of those stories would have died with him 22 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:29.080 in nineteen oh five. But the rivers, which predated his existence by eons, 23 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:32.639 of course, have many stories which have yet to be told. Of 24 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:38.400 the mighty Missouri River, a man named George Fitch once said, there's only 25 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:43.080 one river with a personality, a sense of humor, and a woman's caprice. 26 00:02:43.479 --> 00:02:47.319 A river that goes traveling sideways, that interferes in politics, rearranges geography, 27 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:52.439 and dabbles in real estates. A river that plays hide and seek with 28 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.560 you today and tomorrow, follows you around like a pet dog with a dynamite 29 00:02:55.560 --> 00:03:08.360 cracker tied to its tail. That river is the Missouri River. In season 30 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:14.960 four of Frozen Truth, we will be imploring the Missouri to give up one 31 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:21.560 of her secrets, if in fact she possesses it. From the remote location 32 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:27.400 in Montana where Jacob Brower one hundred years ago discovered the actual origin of the 33 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:31.319 Missouri, we go from that points one hundred years downstream, one thousand miles 34 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:43.199 downstream into a car that was parked alongside its banks. The key to that 35 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:50.319 car was still in the ignition the possessions of the woman who owned the car. 36 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.000 The purse of the woman who owned the car was on the front seats, 37 00:03:53.879 --> 00:04:01.479 undisturbed. But the woman had disappeared seemingly into the Missouri River, at 38 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:06.319 least it was tempting for police to believe she had. But this woman the 39 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:13.560 night before had not been alone or missing when she'd been last seen in Bismarck, 40 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:16.959 North Dakota. Her five year old son had been with her as well 41 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:25.560 as the early winter son rose over what was called the Dakota Territory when that 42 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:30.720 mighty river's birthplace had finally been found. Still missing was thirty six year old 43 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:36.040 Sandred Jacobsen and her young son John. And this is where you and I 44 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:45.920 answered the story. Welcome to season four of Frozen Truth. I'm Scott Fuller. 45 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:18.839 Obviously, we've covered three cases so far. Season four will be our 46 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:25.360 fourth, and the cases that we have covered previously all have something in common 47 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:30.680 at least one main line in common, and that is that they were nationally 48 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.759 known. I picked those cases because I was familiar with them before, and 49 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:40.920 I was familiar with them before because they're nationally prominent cases. A La Reynolds 50 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:46.120 disappeared right in that era of Nancy Grace and cable news covering such stories every 51 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.759 single night. That was right when Ala disappeared, so she got all that 52 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:54.759 national coverage. Jody Who's in true just because of the victimology who she was, 53 00:05:55.079 --> 00:06:01.079 and I think the mysterious circumstances of her disappearance sessed people, and people 54 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:06.360 remain addicted to that case to this day and to a lesser degree Amy Robechtel. 55 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:11.000 And only because she disappeared in such a less populous state, the least 56 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:15.319 populous state in the country. Is her case not more prominent, probably, 57 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:18.800 But at the time that case got national media coverage, and it certainly has 58 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:26.040 since. It was not necessarily intended and in hindsight wise for me to choose 59 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:30.000 such prominent cases to investigate, especially right out of a gate with the podcast, 60 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:31.680 and one of you sent me a message on Facebook here in the last 61 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:35.040 couple of weeks, and thank you to the woman who did, because it's 62 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:40.040 been bouncing around in my head since when I a few weeks ago came on 63 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:44.959 and expressed what we wanted to accomplish with season four. I've evolved in One 64 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:48.560 of my evolutions and realizations has been that there are thousands of these cases that 65 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:53.720 practically nobody has heard of, and they are no less mysterious, They are 66 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.879 no less fascinating many of them, and none of them are any less tragic. 67 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:01.920 They are all worthy of investigation, arguably more so than cases which have 68 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:06.040 already been investigated. And that realization for me, not that I have regrets 69 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:10.439 about the first three seasons of this show, but that realization for me took 70 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:15.199 three years. That little story. I opened the episode with Jacob Brower. 71 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:19.680 Interesting, man, it's there is kind of a historical slide into our case 72 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:25.000 along the Missouri River, but it's there for another reason as well. At 73 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:29.600 the time that Jacob Brower discovered the actual headwaters of both of those rivers, 74 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.879 the Missouri and the Mississippi, already had established headwaters someone had done that job 75 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:39.319 before, and Brower challenged that, and then he proceeded to go and to 76 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:44.680 find the actual origins of both of America's mightiest rivers. He did what nobody 77 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:46.360 else had done. He just went a little bit further. Now, if 78 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:50.439 you'd take a prominent case, a case it's been covered, extensively, investigated 79 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:57.360 extensively, your pick, your top five most talked about cold cases growing up 80 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:01.160 in Colorado all used John but a Ramsey. The chances of new information in 81 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:05.000 the John but a Ramsey case being uncovered at this point, after all these 82 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:09.680 years, after all those eyes, after all that's been said and speculated, 83 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:13.160 is very long, because many people have been looking. But there are many 84 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:18.720 cases, of course, which have not been as thoroughly investigated, and again 85 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.920 are no less mysterious and of course no less tragic. So this show is 86 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.800 here as entertainment. I mean, it's here to give you something to listen 87 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:31.120 to, to become also informed by and inspired by and all that. But 88 00:08:31.159 --> 00:08:35.440 if you're going to pick a case, you might as well pick one that 89 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:39.759 deserves the attention. For want of a better phrase, I'm reminded of the 90 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:46.039 Robert frost Lyne about the road less traveled by, and if there is a 91 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.759 difference that we can make along the way, it will be on that road 92 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:54.759 less traveled. Of course, people have heard of Sandra and John Jacobson's disappearance. 93 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:58.120 It's one of the most prominent in North Dakota. But I wonder how 94 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:03.919 many of you of her of this case, probably because it's in North Dakota. 95 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:09.120 But here's the thing, a woman in the prime of her life, 96 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.480 a mother and her young son, and her son who have not been seen, 97 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:18.120 heard from, discovered, uncovered since. And oh, by the way, 98 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:24.000 that was twenty five years ago. So we will travel to the heart 99 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:28.759 of the Dakotas and we will take the road less traveled in search of what 100 00:09:28.799 --> 00:10:03.120 we look for on this podcast, what actually happened. There's an area of 101 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:09.200 Bismarck, which is a city that was founded along the Missouri River. It 102 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.679 features a series of road and rail bridges that traverse the water, sort of 103 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:20.200 one right next to another. Sandra Jacobson's nineteen ninety gray Honda Civic was found 104 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:26.480 on a Sunday in November nineteen ninety six by itself aside the river. Sandra 105 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:31.519 and her five year old son John had been last seen the night before at 106 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:37.320 Sandra's parents house in Bismarck. Sandra herself didn't live in Bismarck. She actually 107 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:43.279 lived in a town called Center, about forty five minutes away. On that 108 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:48.200 Saturday night, November sixteenth, nineteen ninety six, Sandra and John went to 109 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:54.519 visit her parents at her parents' house for dinner. At some point, Sandra 110 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:56.879 told her parents she had to go geet Gas and that was the last time 111 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:01.480 that she was seen. According to initial reports, her car was found in 112 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:05.480 an area that locals at that time called Centennial Beach on the Missouri River, 113 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:11.279 and it was found that next day, Sunday. And the car is the 114 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:16.519 first thing that draws you into this case, Such a plain, practical car 115 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:24.960 sitting silently early on a Sunday morning, just obediently waiting. The car is 116 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:31.279 open, the doors are not locked. The key Sandra's car key is still 117 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:37.200 in the ignition, and right there on the passenger scene is Sandra's purse. 118 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.279 The purse at first glance, appears to be untouched, and all of her 119 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:48.679 possessions still seemed to be inside of it. But of course, where is 120 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:54.440 Sandra, and almost more intriguingly, where is John? The two of them 121 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.320 when they were last seen were reported to have been wearing winter clothes, at 122 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:03.879 least when they left Sandra's parents' house. Sandra had been last seen wearing a 123 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.840 light blue sweatshirt, blue jeans, brown lace up boots, and a dark 124 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:13.799 brown down jacket. Five year old John was wearing a hunter green winter coat 125 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:18.279 with blue cuffs. And in twenty five years from then to now, no 126 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:24.440 trace of either mother or son has been confirmed. No clothes, no other 127 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:30.960 possessions, certainly no bodies. And that is a fascinating circumstance which begs about 128 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:35.519 a dozen questions. Of course what happened to Sandra and John being at the 129 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:37.960 top of the list, but also the car. How did the car get 130 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:43.120 to that spot along the river where it was found just several hours after the 131 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.440 two had been last seen. Is that where Sandra parked? It? Is 132 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:48.919 that where she left it? And if so, obviously what happened to them 133 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:58.679 next? Or did someone else leave the car there to be found. Sandra's 134 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:03.159 parents apparently reported her missing only hours after she was last seen later that night. 135 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:09.080 It was not initially reported what time the next day on Sunday, that 136 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.799 the car was found, but one of the first things investigators did is search 137 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:18.960 the river. The county dive team searched that section of the Missouri where the 138 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.360 car was found, from one bridge to another. According to the first newspaper 139 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:30.759 accounts, on that search, they found nothing except one reported shoe, and 140 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:33.960 there isn't much in the initial reporting about the shoe, but it must be 141 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:37.600 a child size because it was reported that there's a belief it might have belonged 142 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:43.039 to John, although apparently this was never confirmed. So in the muddy river 143 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:54.600 next to the car is found one shoe and nothing else. In November nineteen 144 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.519 ninety six, Bismarck police put out some details about their missing people in the 145 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:03.080 press, and within a few days there were some tips. In the meantime, 146 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.879 at the scene, one local detective had come up with his own theory. 147 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:18.559 Bismarck Tribune quotes police detective Tim Turnbull. This is from the Bismarck Tribune. 148 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:26.480 This particular account is several months after the disappearance itself. Bismarck Police detective 149 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:33.240 Tim Turnbull believes Jacobson walked or jumped into the river with her son that night, 150 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.879 because there have been no clues that she staged her disappearance or was abducted. 151 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:52.360 That's interesting. So of all the possible outcomes, So of all the 152 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:56.480 possible outcomes, that they were abducted, or that they ran off, or 153 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:03.840 something else less obvious, this detective believes the two of them entered the river 154 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:18.200 together, that they were abducted or ran off, or something less obvious. 155 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:24.000 We need to find out why this detective thought the most likely scenario was this 156 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:30.639 woman parked her car and drowned herself and her five year old son in a 157 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:39.639 river in winter at night. So we need to talk to Tim Turnbull. 158 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:58.559 Frozen Truth is a featured podcast in the Spring twenty twenty one issue of Spoken 159 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:03.519 Blossom some magazine, a publication by John's Media Collective out of Colorado. John's 160 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:11.759 mission is to cultivate community through information and inspiration. John's family of lifestyle platforms, 161 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:17.200 events, and organizations align together to ignite passion and purpose. You can 162 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:23.480 learn more at John's Mediacollective dot com, That's Jaunt Mediacollective dot com and check 163 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:30.399 out Frozen Truth in the Spring twenty twenty one issue of Spoken Blossom magazine. 164 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:37.000 I have reached out to Detective Tim Turnbull, who is now retired hoping to 165 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.080 hear back. But in the meantime, let's examine this apparent theory that he 166 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.960 has as best we can from afar, and the first step in doing that 167 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:51.720 is to gather the appropriate data. So let's get a context for what we're 168 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:57.000 talking about. Let's get a likelihood of that scenario in which Sandra and her 169 00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:02.600 five year old son enter the water on their own accord that night at night, 170 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:07.960 in the dark, in November, and try to figure out how likely 171 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:12.680 that might be, just as a starting place, not as an answer for 172 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:17.880 the specific case, but just as a starting point. Apparently, more than 173 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:22.000 eight hundred people die every day from drowning. It's one of the most common 174 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:26.359 causes of death of children in fact, worldwide, especially for those children under 175 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:30.680 five. There are dozens of such cases in them the US every day as 176 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:36.079 well. There are specific high risk factors, the most high risk factors for 177 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:41.640 drowning, though don't apply to our case. For example, men are more 178 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.599 likely to drown than women. Access to water is another risk factor, whether 179 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.279 you live by a big body of water or any body of water, or 180 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:52.359 in your profession like being a fisherman, something like that, and Sandra's car 181 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:55.920 was found next to the river, but she is not high risk in that 182 00:17:55.960 --> 00:18:00.000 way either. There's no flood disaster in this situation. There is no evidence 183 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:04.880 that they planned travel by boat that night. There are other risk factors that 184 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:10.359 are mentioned by the WHO that we don't know about in this case, whether 185 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:14.400 they're applicable or not, for example, alcohol use, medication use, But 186 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:21.119 it does not seem like Sandra and John were high risk for drowning. The 187 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:26.240 first time I read Detective Turnbull's theory that, granted he was coming up with 188 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:30.200 on that day, was at the time he did not have twenty five years 189 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:34.640 of hindsight on his side. But what jumped out to me, just from 190 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:41.279 my anecdotal reporting experience, is this, Let's say Sandra and John did enter 191 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:45.400 the water somehow on their own accord. Let's say there was no crime committed 192 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:52.240 there, and the two of them drowned twenty five years later, where are 193 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:57.920 the bodies? I mean, that was my first thought. The depth of 194 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:02.359 the Missouri River changes all the time, and it's different everywhere, but at 195 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.319 Bismarck, as a rule of thumb, it's about ten feet deep there and 196 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:08.920 pretty strong currents. It is a dangerous body of water, there is no 197 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.200 question. But after so long, it seems to me like the bodies would 198 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:18.240 have turned up by now, And that's a dicey assumption. We can't make 199 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:21.519 it because it's a very important assumption to make. We can't just write off 200 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:26.079 drowning and go off chasing other theories in this case, just because we think 201 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.359 the bodies should have turned up by now, and when you're trying to prove 202 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:36.000 that assumption using probability, it's actually a statistical dilemma that we have here because 203 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.720 we don't know and have no way of knowing, how many bodies of drowning 204 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:44.599 victims are simply not found ever because they have never been found. It's a 205 00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:51.440 paradox. Maybe almost every drowning victim is eventually found, maybe a good percentage 206 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:56.640 of them are actually never found their bodies. It's been, again my anecdotal 207 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.519 experience, that drowning victims and rivers especially are found within usually a few days, 208 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.319 a few weeks. I'm even aware of a case here locally where it 209 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:11.039 took eighteen months to find the body in a smaller river here than the Missouri, 210 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:18.119 but twenty five years on a river that is well used commercially. It 211 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:25.279 is well recreated on for most of the year, So we can't quantify how 212 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:30.200 likely that theory is that Sandra and John's bodies are still somewhere in the Missouri 213 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:34.599 River and just haven't been discovered in two and a half decades. We need 214 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:40.400 to proceed with an open mind, but it seems so unlikely. And on 215 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:44.319 top of all of that, I mean, there's just basic common sense. 216 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.839 The Missouri River is a dangerous river. A surprising number of people people die 217 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:53.400 in it every year, but most of those deaths occur in the summer. 218 00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:00.799 So I went back between nineteen ninety and two thousand and I for every drowning 219 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.880 case at that point in the Missouri River at Bismarck that I could find, 220 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:08.279 and I found several, but every one I found during that ten year period 221 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:15.799 where between the months of May and September. And one woman who died actually 222 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:22.119 ironically three weeks before Sandra and John were last seen, she drowned on the 223 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:26.119 Missouri River as well. In this case, it's dark, it's winter, 224 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:30.640 it's November. The temperature in Bismarck, North Dakota, at ten pm on 225 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:37.440 November sixteenth, nineteen ninety six was fourteen degrees with a twenty to twenty five 226 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:42.200 mile one hour wind, and that puts the windshill below zero four below windschill. 227 00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:48.519 What are they doing out there? If they drown? If you're wondering, 228 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:55.960 maybe they wandered out onto the ice for some reason that I can't imagine. 229 00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:00.319 But the Missouri River does not typically totally freeze over a space. Actually, 230 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.359 early in the winter, if it's cold enough for long enough, a 231 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.200 river like that will freeze and form ice jams. But high temperatures in the 232 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:12.519 week leading up to this disappearance in November were in the twenties, mid twenties, 233 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:15.519 upper twenties. It was not cold enough to have frozen the Missouri. 234 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:18.960 There would have been some ice, maybe even a lot of ice on the 235 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.880 river, but it would not have been totally frozen over. There would have 236 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.079 been some open water at this point. Obviously, we'll try to find as 237 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.920 many people as we can who are more familiar with the scene from that day 238 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:36.880 in nineteen ninety six. But right now I'm left with a question. Actually, 239 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:41.039 I guess it's more of a statement that nobody in their right mind is 240 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:49.440 getting into that water under any circumstances on their own, especially with their young 241 00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:57.160 child under those conditions, and nobody in their right mind is a figure of 242 00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:07.160 speech. But we can also turn it into a question because it turns out 243 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:11.839 earlier that night, the night that she disappeared with her son, Sandra Jacobson 244 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:18.839 called the police and what she told them would lead the investigation in an entirely 245 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:34.680 different direction. Thank you for listening to season four, episode one of Frozen 246 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:38.200 Truth. It is good to be back. Thank you also to our Patreon 247 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:45.279 supporters for making this show possible. On location productions like this one deep dives 248 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.519 that go to the place and talk to the people, It is just more 249 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.119 expensive. And season four again simply would not be possible without our Patreon supporters, 250 00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:57.319 and there are great benefits to being a member early shows, early access, 251 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:03.680 commercial free access, and also exclusive content that you won't hear in the 252 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:07.880 main show. You can visit patreon dot com slash Frozen Truth to become a 253 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.319 supporter. Find the link in the show notes. Frozen Truth is written, 254 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.519 edited and produced by me Scott Fuller. I'll also put my email address in 255 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:18.279 the show notes for anyone who wants to reach out to me about this case. 256 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:23.119 Please do if you have any information about this case. Please contact the 257 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:30.119 North Dakota Bureau of Criminal Investigation at seven oh one three to eight five five 258 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:34.759 zero zero or the Bismarck Police Department at seven oh one two two three one 259 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:41.759 two one two episodes of Frozen Truth this season will not be released on a 260 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:48.119 regular schedule, but episode two is planned for release on Wednesday, March seventeenth, 261 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.759 happens to be Saint Patrick's Day. So I'll talk to you then, 262 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:56.720 Patreon supporters, sooner than that, and thank you for listening.