WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.720 --> 00:00:05.280 Are they trying to save money, are they trying to lower risk? Are 2 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:10.279 they trying to drive revenue? Whatever that outcome is, what's the critical path 3 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:17.839 to get them there? You're listening to the audible Ready Podcast, the show 4 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:22.679 that helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature sales leaders sharing 5 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:26.640 their best insights on how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable 6 00:00:26.679 --> 00:00:30.719 revenue growth. Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in B 7 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:36.520 to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to the audible 8 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:41.679 Ready Sales Podcast. I'm Rachel klap Miller. Joining me for our conversation today 9 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:44.520 is our own Timkato. Hi, Tim, Well, Rachel, how are 10 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.799 you today? I'm good, I'm good. I hope you are doing well, 11 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:52.640 Tim. Today we are going to talk about a concept called mutual action 12 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:56.439 plans. We have a course on a center with the same name, and 13 00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:00.119 it's getting a lot of traction. It's also sparked some conversation in our community, 14 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:04.599 so I wanted to do a podcast on the topic. So Tim, 15 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:11.120 let's just level set everybody on what mutual action plans are and when you should 16 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:15.560 use them. Okay, So let me start with my opinion of what they 17 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:22.200 are. They are the maybe top two or three of the most underutilized best 18 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:30.599 practices for sellers. A very straightforward concept. It is usually when done well, 19 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:36.879 embraced by both customers and selling organizations alike. But it is something that 20 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:42.480 we tend to want to fly want them right. So this is what they 21 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:47.120 are. Technically, what is a mutual action plan? Well, it technically 22 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:52.040 is exactly what it sounds like. It's an action plan that's developed by both 23 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:56.680 sides to accomplish some kind of an outcome. So if you just start with 24 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.840 that, what is it. I think it's a best practice to create alignment 25 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:06.640 with a customer on a couple of things. Number One, the critical path 26 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:12.919 to achieve the desired outcomes they're looking for. That's a very important nuance I 27 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:15.919 just said right there, not the critical path for them to buy something from 28 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:21.680 you, the critical path for them to achieve an outcome they're trying to get 29 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:24.039 to. Are they trying to save money, are they trying to the lower 30 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:30.159 risk? Are they trying to drive revenue? Whatever that outcome is, what's 31 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:35.520 the critical path to get them there. Secondly, it defines who is supposed 32 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:40.240 to do what they each step along that critical path. And then finally, 33 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:46.240 what I think it really is why it's such a great best practice. It's 34 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:53.000 ultimately a communication tool to stay aligned on expectations, who does what went and 35 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:57.759 to achieve that outcome. And where that is a special or humple is if 36 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:02.800 something goes sideways or somethinges and we've got to realign with the customer on what 37 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:06.680 it takes to get those done. So to me, it's a best practice. 38 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:10.919 Now your second question, I think that answer to that is when there 39 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:17.560 is a level of complexity in working with the customer to achieve the outcome they're 40 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:21.960 looking for. Level of complexity. What the heck does that mean? That's 41 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:25.159 a big wiggle phrase, isn't it. But to me, it's when there 42 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:30.199 are a lot of people on their side involved in the decision making and approval 43 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:38.360 process, When there is a level of complexity in the solution that requires multiple 44 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:45.879 functions on their side to get involved, when there are complexities tied to other 45 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:51.120 initiatives or other things going on in the customers organization, or it would be 46 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:55.360 easy for things to be distracted. And oh, by the way, complexities 47 00:03:55.439 --> 00:04:00.800 from our side, the seller side, on all the folks and functions that 48 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:06.319 need to take place on our side to align with those key activities to customers 49 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:10.879 driving. So to me, it's when is it best used when there's a 50 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:16.959 level of complexity in the process, the action plan that requires us to create 51 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:20.600 some alignment up front, and what does that mean when is it not appropriate? 52 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:25.560 I think at a certain level it's always a bread but once it's not 53 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.360 appropriately one, it's kind of a straightforward thing. The customers ready to go, 54 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:33.040 They can make decisions and take actions to achieve their outcomes pretty easily. 55 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:38.279 They're in control of all those things. When there's complexity, I think it 56 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:41.560 makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and you know it's a mutual action 57 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:46.920 plan, but also as a tool to provide mutual value as you're moving these 58 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.879 buying and selling processes forward. They're very complicated for many of the people listening 59 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:57.160 out there lots of moving parts and the real value here for us as sellers, 60 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.800 provides a tool that allows you to point to and say, remember we 61 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:05.040 said this, and it allows you to help the customer participate in our own 62 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:09.680 rescue. Right. This is one of our favorite phrases. So talk a 63 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:15.079 little bit about what a good mutual action plan does for us a seller and 64 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:16.639 as the buyer. Yeah, I like the way you set that up, 65 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:20.639 Rachel. The mutual part something we do together. See, you got to 66 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:24.920 start with the mindset thing. So much of what we do talks about the 67 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:30.439 mindset before we get into the tactical activity. And the mindset for a mutual 68 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:34.279 action plan is what you just said. It's something we do with the customer, 69 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:41.519 not to the customer, right. And I think sometimes there's an old 70 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:46.759 school mentality around mutual action plans, which I mentioned before. This is the 71 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.319 critical path for you to buy what I have, and I want to make 72 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:53.720 sure I can close it on time according to my forecast, and I don't 73 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:57.120 want anything on your side to get in the way of that. That feels 74 00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:00.240 like something I'm doing to the customer, and a lot of times they have 75 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:04.319 a tendency to push back or resist making those kind of commitments up front. 76 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:09.959 But one's something I do with the customer to help them achieve their outcome. 77 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:14.920 Then I think that's a different mentality and the process goes a lot differently. 78 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:20.439 But what a good one usually looks like. It actually provides an overview of 79 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:26.040 the key milestones in the journey to help them, the customer, achieve their 80 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:29.839 desired outcomes. So that's a big statement, right, It's like a visual 81 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:35.759 Here are the three four eight milestones that we need to make sure we keep 82 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:41.040 our eyes on, almost as if we were verse engineered from the outcome being 83 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:44.920 achieved. What had to happen for that to take place, what had to 84 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:46.680 happen before that, what had to happen, you know, before that. 85 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:53.120 So it's what are those milestones? Then within each milestones, what are the 86 00:06:53.160 --> 00:07:00.399 critical activities to achieve that milestone That get into the details of who's response for 87 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:04.399 the activity, what's the timing for each activity, and you know, how 88 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:10.199 are we going to confirm it's been done. So we're making progress along that 89 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:14.240 path. But I think the other thing that we need to keep in mind 90 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:19.639 is our mutual action plan doesn't live in a vacuum. There's usually other things 91 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:25.879 going on in the customers organization, and we have to reflect some of these 92 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:31.879 other things. You know, sometimes our mutual action plans cascade a holiday in 93 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.319 various parts of the world. We've got to take that into account. I 94 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:41.720 remember years ago, dealing in the automotive industry, some of our projects carried 95 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:46.240 through a hunting season. Don't believe it or not. You know, things 96 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.399 shut down, it's just the way it was in that part of the world, 97 00:07:48.839 --> 00:07:56.120 or a major release of some new solution or some industry issue. So 98 00:07:56.439 --> 00:08:03.439 I think it's best when it also accommodates outside factors that could influence our ability 99 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.920 to achieve those outcomes. And of course the best ones of these, they're 100 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:11.319 not done in a vacuum just on our side. It's something that's shared between 101 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:16.879 us and the customer. So it's like milestones activities for the milestones, who 102 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:24.279 does what when, accommodating other considerations and something that we both keep current with 103 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:28.680 each oggle. Yeah, you know, we talk about medic a lot, 104 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.440 and this is really aligned to that decision process letter, and we also jog 105 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:37.840 about reverse timelines. All of these things are kind of incorporated into this mutual 106 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:43.240 action plan to document that process of what you're going to do and what the 107 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:46.399 customer is going to do. What are your best tips to get buy in 108 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:50.639 from the customer to really lay this out with you. Yeah, well, 109 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:54.960 I'll go back to the mindset. I just said, you know something I'm 110 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.960 going to do with you, and I think I always have found these works 111 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:05.639 when we start with intent. Why am I advocating we do this. There's 112 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:09.639 a lot of stuff going on your side, There's a lot of stuff going 113 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:13.919 on our site. This has a level of complexity, and what I'd like 114 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:18.799 to do is for you and I that have some type of a roadmap for 115 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.399 how we're going to get this done. You know, when I position it 116 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:26.120 again the wrong way, which is I want to make sure we get the 117 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:31.000 signature before the end of my quarter, customer seat through that. Honestly, 118 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:35.080 that's not their interest. But once we sometimes forget I don't know how we 119 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:39.679 could, but sometimes we do. I do it too. We forget the 120 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.360 customers trying to get something out of buying something from a suit, you know, 121 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.639 and they don't really care about our sale. They care about their problem 122 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:50.600 being solved. So when I put this as I know you need to get 123 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.200 this done. We're thrilled that we've got a chance to work with you to 124 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:58.279 get that done. But in our experience, it's best if we map out 125 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:03.399 a plan how to get there. So I start with positive intent. I 126 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:07.440 talked about the why I want to make sure I'm positioning this in the old 127 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:11.720 term. Remember that old acronym that. We sometimes hear Rachel with them, 128 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:15.799 what's in it for me? Well, I think it's what's in it for 129 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:18.360 them. We've got to make sure we clarify that. But ultimately, the 130 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.200 best baptice I've seen it, once you get past the intent and the why 131 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:26.960 does it make sense, is just involve them in the process. I like 132 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:33.080 to start with a straw man or an example. Hey, based on our 133 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.480 experience and expertise, these are some of the components, the steps, the 134 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.519 milestone of our mutual action plan. But I'm just doing this based on my 135 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:46.120 experience. I don't know everything going on in your world. This is where 136 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:50.399 you need to come into play. And since you've brought up medic Rachel, 137 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:58.000 this is a great way to test and leverage your champion. They might not 138 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:03.000 be the ones working with you on the other side of the mutual action plan, 139 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.399 they might be a key influencer in the process. And I'd sure love 140 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:13.639 to run my straw man past my champion to see what do you think about 141 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:18.279 this? Am I about to advocate something that is going to create a problem? 142 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.679 Are you going to give me some insights that Despite all your efforts here, 143 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:26.440 Tim, I know you still like to put some predictability in your forecast, 144 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.320 and I think you're assuming some things in here that are probably going to 145 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.000 be a problem. I'd rather know all those things upfront. So it's share 146 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:39.279 the intent. Maybe create a straw man with the support of your champion, 147 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:46.399 and start with that straw man and work back and forth with your contacts to 148 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.440 create kind of version one draft of the mutual action plan. Yeah, that's 149 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:54.240 a great tip. Give them something to edit rather than create, Like, 150 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:58.600 give them something to work with, particularly if they've never done it before. 151 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.720 And you bring up that concept of champions tamwhich is such a good one and 152 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:07.200 a critical component of all the deals, right, or they should be. 153 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:11.519 And you know I mentioned the decision process. A mutual action plan can help 154 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:16.240 you align with the decision process. But this is also a tool that can 155 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:20.600 really help you in a lot of ways. You mentioned the champion throughout your 156 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.639 sales process and into your negotiations. What are some ways that we can use 157 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:30.200 this tool beyond like the initial right, right, Well, you know it's 158 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.399 not just decision process, Rachel. Part of the mutual action plan is a 159 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:39.600 google process. The mutual action plan. By focusing on this with the positive 160 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:43.679 intent of we are both trying to get to this end that creates value for 161 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:48.159 you. You know, let's just be honest about it. It creates value 162 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.080 for me too, But let's we're trying to get there. It will expose 163 00:12:52.320 --> 00:13:01.399 disconnects. It will expose very likely things customers our context might not actually know 164 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:05.759 about their own approval process. You know, we found raps over the last 165 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:13.360 few years. Those approval processes have changed significantly, and they've done so out 166 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:18.480 of the visibility of some of the people we've traditionally relied on, and all 167 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.039 of a sudden they find out, Oops, our whole timing of our mutual 168 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.960 action plan is are because I didn't realize this now requires a different level of 169 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:31.360 approval or their new consideration. So that's the other benefit of it. You 170 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:35.039 start getting clarity upfront on some of those things. So, if you just 171 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:41.279 looked at it from a medic standpoint, right decision process, approval process champion, 172 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:48.799 what role is the economic buyer play competition? Because guess what sometimes the 173 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:54.240 biggest competitor we all face is that unbelievable competitor that seems to be everywhere in 174 00:13:54.279 --> 00:14:01.399 the world known as not yet business is usual, all right, And so 175 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.960 when I'm up against not Yet, I want to make sure I've sold against 176 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:09.679 that from the beginning. What's the value of moving forward? But I want 177 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.120 to make sure that not Yet doesn't go away when I get you know, 178 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.720 someone saying, oh, yes, we want to go with your solution, 179 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:20.759 Tim, not yet it is still working behind the scenes, which is another 180 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:28.080 beautiful benefit of a mutual action plan. So I might have strayed from the 181 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.120 original question you asked, Rachel, but it serves a lot of purposes. 182 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:39.000 But it can also serve the purpose of surfacing some of the unknowns that both 183 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:45.399 you and a customer could be impacted by and trying to commit something to that 184 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:50.320 one visual that one shared view of what it takes to get from here to 185 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.120 them being successful. It exposes some things we might not be as sure of 186 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.720 as we thought, and I'd rather surface them early than be surprised by them. 187 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.120 Like well said, Well said, Yeah, mutual action plans. For 188 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:07.279 those of you listening, these can be, as Tim said, a great 189 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.440 tactic. We also have a course on a center that I mentioned at the 190 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.000 top of the show that is linked in the show notes. If you want 191 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.279 to learn more about creating them. Check out that link any final words of 192 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:20.320 wisdom here, tim as we rap, I think you know what someone said, 193 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:26.039 and I'm going to totally botch this saying because it's got about eighty five 194 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:31.120 different example of permutations of it. But the idea of you know, a 195 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:37.440 plan is worthless or planning is everything, and I think that applies here because 196 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:41.559 the reality some of our mutual action plans depending on what our listeners, the 197 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.799 nature of their business, what they sell, the market they sell in the 198 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:50.120 customers. Sometimes a mutual action plan can say to something complex, that plan 199 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.200 could lay out over several months, and what do we know? I used 200 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:58.200 to say, when humans get involved, things are guaranteed to change. When 201 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:02.399 newman's in busy, Yes, this is get involved, things are guaranteed to 202 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:07.200 change. The other advantage of a mutual action plan it gives you something solid 203 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.919 to go back to when the inevitable change that's going to happen hits you. 204 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.159 Now are not oh my gosh, what are we going to do? You're 205 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.480 right back to what part of this plan do we need to adjust? Is 206 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:23.720 there any other contingency? Oh? Now that I know your end date cannot 207 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:27.200 move, what do we have to accelerate in here? To make it happen. 208 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:33.759 So just it makes for a different kind of conversation when the you know 209 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.120 what hits the you know where. So it's like there's a lot of advantage 210 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.360 in this. But I think the idea here. Just keep in mind it's 211 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:47.720 something we do with the customer to the customer. It's one way that I 212 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:53.799 think professionals demonstrate their professional I'm an expert. I've done this before. Here's 213 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:59.879 the critical path. I'm setting up clear expectations with you upfront. You've got 214 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:03.519 to expectations of me. We're going to work with each other. This is 215 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:10.119 not an accountability tool. You said you got to know some mutual action one. 216 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.279 Thank you so much, Tim Kato, A pleasure, all right, 217 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.559 thank you to all of you for listening to the Audible Ready Sales podcast. 218 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.839 At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Our 219 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:30.519 proven methodologies deliver programs that build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give 220 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.720 your teams the ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale. 221 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:38.559 Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get 222 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:44.640 started. Visit us at forcemanagement dot com. You've been listening to the Audible 223 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:48.559 Ready podcast. To not miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your 224 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:49.759 favorite podcast player. Until next time.