WEBVTT 1 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:27.440 Wow, I was thinking looking back at Ancient Apocalypse, the Netflix series that 2 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:33.240 featured Graham Hancock highlighting many of his theories, many of his lots of the 3 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:37.159 material from his book. And it's almost been a year and a half now 4 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:41.560 on November of twenty twenty two is when it was released, and we're going 5 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:47.560 to feature the first series is Once There was a Flood, featuring the Doctor 6 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:53.679 and Danny Hillman. And this was one of my favorites simply because Graham actually 7 00:00:53.759 --> 00:01:02.240 flies back out to Java, Indonesia and visits with Doctor Hillmen and they walk 8 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:07.439 around this pyramid. Now, what makes this pyramid a real challenge for a 9 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:15.680 lot of orthodoxy is the fact that he got organic dates see fourteen dates of 10 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:19.840 over twenty thousand years. In fact, you're going to hear today what some 11 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:26.040 of the estimates are on the final layer, which he didn't get a chance 12 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:32.079 to date the foundation layer, and it's significantly older than twenty thousand years And 13 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:36.719 so what do we do in the face of our current history, which basically 14 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:42.680 says twenty thousand years ago, we were ape like hunters and gatherers and not 15 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:48.680 doing anything close to building pyramids. We were surviving, we were in survival 16 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:55.000 mode. It completely changes the narrative of our historians. And this is what 17 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.359 we're all about here on Earth Ancients, is to look at the history that 18 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:06.239 we've been and to really get a sense of what the foundations are, if 19 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:14.240 they are stable foundations and the materials qualified, or if it's shaky. And 20 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:20.360 we're looking at hypothesis theories and great questions that are not very well answered. 21 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:25.879 And you know, I have had Danny Hillman on prior to the Ancient Apocalypse 22 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:38.039 series when this ganoon penang pyramidal structure was first discovered, and he shocked the 23 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:46.000 scientific world when he began coming back with very very well organized data and also 24 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:53.680 chambers on the interior of this pyramid, numerous artifacts that were made from geo 25 00:02:53.759 --> 00:03:00.199 polymers. We're going to talk about that today. And why does the scientific 26 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:06.479 world have such a huge problem with this well, and this has been a 27 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:12.280 continual theme here on the program for many, many years, is that science 28 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:16.680 needs to rewrite our history. And as we began finding more evidence of earlier 29 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:23.120 civilizations that are from an earlier epoch, that data needs to be presented in 30 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:30.240 a positive fashion. Quit writing off anything that is before a certain date. 31 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:36.520 Predynastic people are typically written off. And now we know that many of these 32 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:45.759 highly crafted bulls, plates, vases are from a period where there was high 33 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:52.280 tech involved and they were placed on very sophisticated lays, or they were cut 34 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:57.000 in a manner that we don't understand. There's now some new theories that some 35 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:01.439 of these bulls that Ben ben Kirkwick is working with may have been cut with 36 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:09.599 lasers. So we just don't know. And you know what's fun and a 37 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:15.439 little frustrating is as technology advances, and we've developed scanning devices, measuring devices 38 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:23.439 and technology that can really tackle the precision levels of some of these artifacts, 39 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:29.959 we're discovering that they are from a time period we just don't understand, and 40 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:34.519 the technology was such that it surpasses our own. And this is what I'm 41 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:42.639 discovering. And I've talked about this. If your scientists are trained to only 42 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:49.199 fixate on a certain technology, certain time period, and are not encouraged to 43 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:58.480 go to go beyond their own fields of research, timelines or education, then 44 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:05.160 you're stuck. You're a quagmire. And as we get new archaeologists, egyptologists, 45 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:14.199 geologists, and so forth, who are willing and who are encouraged to 46 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:20.160 stretch beyond the timelines that they're given. Then we have the fundamentals, the 47 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:29.160 foundation for new discoveries, new awareness, new revelations. And so what Graham 48 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:35.240 Hancock has to say isn't that far off? And these sitting professors need to 49 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:41.759 lighten up a little bit and see things as they are rather than as they 50 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:47.920 wish them to be. How do we place a pyramid like Ganon Penang in 51 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:57.160 Indonesia? The Egyptologists who found out about it were very unhappy. I mean, 52 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.800 Zahi Owas was claiming it's not a real pyramid. One of the things 53 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:09.399 that is unique about goanuon Penang is it's a part of a hill that a 54 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:18.040 civilization formed into a pyramid using basalt, columns of stone and other techniques to 55 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:25.519 pack the hill and form it. Now we see this in Bosnia with the 56 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:30.959 Bosnian Pyramids, and there's a great, great deal of question about those pyramids. 57 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:35.920 They don't have the artifacts that Goanoon Penang has. And I'm going to 58 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:41.920 place a series of photographs for you to see. These artifacts are mind blowing. 59 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:47.480 There's a couple of handheld artifacts that are geopolymer in formation, meaning that 60 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:56.399 they are ground rock and crystal with a powerful glue and then they're placed in 61 00:06:56.560 --> 00:07:02.120 what looks like a mold. And these handheld devices are very curious. We 62 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:06.759 don't know how they were used or what their purpose was, so we don't 63 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:12.920 see this at Bosnia. And there's other artifacts that we'll hear about today on 64 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:18.079 the program. So today's program is g Noon Penang the oldest pyramid on Earth, 65 00:07:18.639 --> 00:08:03.920 and my guest is doctor Danny Hillman. We're heading to Indonesia and Java, 66 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:09.480 and we're speaking today with Danny Hillman, not to wad Jaja, who 67 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:18.519 is the key geologist an archaeologist who made this fascinating discovery of a pyramid known 68 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:24.680 as Ganon Pannag by the locals. This was such an amazing discovery that it 69 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:33.720 was featured on Graham Hancock's Ancient Apocalypse in November of the launched twenty twenty two, 70 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.879 and I wanted to have Danny on kind of a fo as kind of 71 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:45.000 a follow up to that interview to see what his and the local reaction was 72 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:48.919 to this program. So Danny, welcome to Earth Ancients, I should say, 73 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:56.039 welcome back. And what was the reaction by the local community to this 74 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:09.080 groundbreaking Netflix series months after that Nasting Engine Apocalic showing the reaction is really positive 75 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:18.279 in Indonesia and all over the words, until the article in the Nature show 76 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:24.120 up in December, isn't it like one month after the publication and all the 77 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:28.440 positive response from the people from the mass media all over the words. But 78 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:37.039 then the Natural article come up with all the sentiments and you know, all 79 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:43.759 the confrontdiction or the controversy surrounding it. And then it follows up by several 80 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:56.440 or many like international publications that like showing negative opinions about the the results of 81 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:01.159 the research in Grumpada, So then the controversy begins. But hey, yeah, 82 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:07.639 after the Netflix Apocalytics comes the first month, the response is really positive 83 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:13.840 and we are really happy about that. Did you get direct communication from individual 84 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:24.080 scientists, individual archaeological groups positive and negative or was it more just people who 85 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:31.559 are watching the series? Well, yeah, in Indonesia, lots of my 86 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:39.559 friends expressing their positive response, their positives common around the around our findings and 87 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:48.759 the papers. Because it's published in the respected journal, the publishability, the 88 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:54.840 archological perspection, so it's it looks really valid. You know, it has 89 00:10:54.840 --> 00:11:00.519 been reviewed for like nine months and stuff from the outside. Also there's people 90 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:07.200 expressing their positive response also through emails and stuff. And even after the controversy, 91 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:15.519 after all that, you know, some of the like negative opinions about 92 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:22.919 that, but still there's some people expressing their positive response. How about how 93 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:30.279 about local authorities that you've been dealing with, did they respond it all to 94 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:37.279 I mean, because it's an international program. Netflix is all over the place, 95 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:39.879 you know, I mean I think I read somewhere that the audience for 96 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:48.240 that series was in like forty million people. Right, Yeah, I don't 97 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:56.519 know how to say that. They are just like pro and contract. Some 98 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:03.799 of people pro some of them contrast, and the government doesn't really take like 99 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:09.320 a definite action, so they just, uh, I just don't do anything. 100 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:13.639 Just okay, it's controversy, just like ten years ago, that they 101 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:20.240 didn't do anything about that contropracy. So that's what disappoint me because I expect 102 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:26.159 that the government take as serious thought about that, you know, take a 103 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:31.440 serious action about that. They if they think that this partant case is important, 104 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:37.240 which I think is really important for science and also for the nation for 105 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:43.039 the tourism, it will be like a big you know, tourist activities and 106 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:46.320 all that. But so so I expect that the government take a positive action, 107 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:54.440 like from like a team of experts national and international, uh to find 108 00:12:54.519 --> 00:13:01.360 the truth, the facts, right, But that's not happened. They doing 109 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:07.480 nothing? Well? Was it was the Netflix series covered in the local newspapers 110 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:13.120 and on TV like highlighting you and this discovery? Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, 111 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.879 lots of mass media. So on the first month, all of the 112 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:24.120 national mass media respond positively, but after that article in Nature in December, 113 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:35.559 then it's followed by lots of negative opinion national. We should tell the audience 114 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.519 that I think it's now eight or nine years that you've been told not to 115 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:45.159 excavate anymore at go noon, penag. Is that correct? How long has 116 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:50.120 it been? Yeah, it's not really. I've been taught not to excap 117 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:58.559 it the signed, but I have not been facilitated to do research in you 118 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:03.600 have not been uh s facilitated, had been funded and so you don't have 119 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:09.159 the funds to do anymore work. Yeah yeah, tell tell us how you 120 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:15.080 were funded when you began the work, who was paying the bill for your 121 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:22.120 As an example, your carbon dating and your excavation and consolidation of this pyramid 122 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:28.759 yeah. That also is not like a research grant that granted to the team 123 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:35.799 rather than it's a donation uh provided by through and the ARIBS, which is 124 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:46.320 the the President's Special Assistant for actually is for the Disassi mitigation actually, but 125 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:52.159 it's interested in faciliating our research Indu Palan. So so we have finally the 126 00:14:52.240 --> 00:15:01.519 donation for to couple the operational course of the field and also some carbon dates, 127 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.559 but it's not much. So like at that time, I have like 128 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.519 one hundred samples to be carbon dated because I know it's very important and I 129 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.759 need a solid evidence to say the ages of the layers. But at that 130 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:22.360 time, we only have money just to analyze like twelve samples. So you 131 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:26.159 only have money to analyze samples, yeah, like less than fifteen samples. 132 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:31.399 Yeah, I hope that I could analyze like one hundred samples to be Are 133 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.919 you saying that the government, if you had the money, would grant you 134 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:45.039 a permit to continue research? Yeah? Yeah I think. Okay, yeah, 135 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:50.279 I work for the government research institute. I just have to ask my 136 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:54.240 office to do research if I have money, so then I will be allowed 137 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:58.639 to do that. Okay, sure, I didn't know that. I thought 138 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.600 they said, no more, Dan, You're not allowed to do any more 139 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:10.360 research. No, because according to our regulation here or research, anybody to 140 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:15.399 do research by you know, if they have money and permission, and to 141 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:22.320 get the permission, there's procedures like got prosecute to do that. But it's 142 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:30.559 it's not difficult, okay. So you if some wealthy person said I want 143 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:36.240 to give you several million dollars, you could put something together and get the 144 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:41.240 permit to begin again. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh my god. Well hey 145 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:45.200 you heard it there my friends listening around the world. If you want to 146 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:52.960 help Danny Ah complete his excavations of the oldest known pyramid in the world, 147 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:57.679 you know now where to send your money. I want to ask you, 148 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:06.240 Uh, your research ended almost to the end. You were at the almost 149 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:10.880 at the you were at the second or third final layer, and you did 150 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:22.720 you did dating carbon dating and dated the soil of that bottom layer at about 151 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:29.240 twenty thousand years. What was your guess if you went to the very bottom, 152 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:33.559 was it another ten thousand years that that would come into play in the 153 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:41.279 total age of the pyramid would be like twenty eight to thirty thousand years. 154 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:47.160 The oldest layer, which required as a Unit three. It sits on top 155 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:55.559 of the natural proclamation, the remnant of the engine volcanics like a volcanic neck. 156 00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:03.200 So below that all the layers is natural rock formation that we cannot date. 157 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.680 But the day, the age of the natural rockmation is like millions of 158 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:15.079 years. So that's slayers and the age also it still range from sixteen thousand 159 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.880 to twenty seven thousand years old. We don't know the exact date yet. 160 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:26.480 We have to have much more comprehensive dating to not the exact date I would 161 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:34.640 say, but I would say that it is possible date. The actual age 162 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:40.119 could be older. I don't know, but that's what we get. What 163 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:42.839 do you suspect, though, Danny, what do you suspect could be the 164 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:52.519 true age when you complete the all layers. That's what I said. According 165 00:18:52.559 --> 00:19:00.799 to the dating results, the old slayer range from sixteen thousand to twenty seven 166 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:07.000 thousand years old is on the soils better than the soils associated with the structures. 167 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.920 So I take the soils in between the rocks, the fragment of rocks 168 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:18.720 on that structures. That's where the age came from. And that the carbone 169 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:23.519 that we ate we did, it's come from all the bioorganisms that live in 170 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:30.920 when the consumption standing there, and I think particularly after their lab because after 171 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:41.680 the starters lap, the the pyrameter will be occupied by lots of trees, 172 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:48.160 grass and stuff like. Now. Yeah, so that that leave the carbons 173 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:57.160 to be dated, so that age could be later after the consumption has been 174 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:03.480 left. So that is still a chance that the actual age of the construction 175 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:08.839 is order. And if we see the success you need three, the unit 176 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:15.759 tree is really weather very rare. That uh, the fragment has been has 177 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:22.799 a spirital weathering extrapulations. I mean it's really old. It has been exposed 178 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:29.400 to the air for thousands of years. Yeah. So and also there's a 179 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:33.759 minimum age to that unit three because the unit three and at one place it's 180 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:40.240 buried by the soil fields, not the weathering soils, but the soil field 181 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.839 done by the human And we also did that soils and the age of the 182 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.480 soils is ten thousand years old. So that is the minimum age of that 183 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:56.799 old slayer you need three three Unit three is the oldest layer. I think 184 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:07.680 that's one give controversy to the established paradigm. I think, yeah, because 185 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:12.559 it's older than go me Cepe when you started excavating, you found some very 186 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:21.759 interesting tools stone tools that you Johnstone artifact. Yeah, yeah, the very 187 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:26.039 interesting Yeah, and there's also very important. Yeah. I want you to 188 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:30.200 talk to talk about these artifacts because the first one looks like you can hold 189 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:37.079 on to it and it's it's it's a very cool tool because it's a geopolymer 190 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:44.599 of some kind, isn't it. Uh. Yeah. The rocks is peculiar. 191 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:49.839 It's not it's not granite, but it's some kind of rocks that has 192 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:56.000 it spotus when you touch it, and it has lots of metals that this 193 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:00.480 tut evenly on the roll, so it's different from the other rocks surrounding it. 194 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:03.880 So I don't know whether that's as a natural rocks or not. But 195 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:11.720 we haven't really examine it, you know, very deeply on the lab yet. 196 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:19.039 But I don't know. But the ship that it's really peculiar. The 197 00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:27.799 length of the Ku johnstone is twenty two centimeters and the length of the sides 198 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:33.920 of that physics is like seven sentiments. It's very regular, so it's like 199 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:40.519 twenty two seven. It's like pi numbers and stuff. And my friend is 200 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:48.920 a professor of physics said that the the shape of that stone artifacts expressing like 201 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:55.759 a very advanced mathematical football something like that. Yeah. So, and what 202 00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:00.119 one of the things that people have to understand that that artifact is found on 203 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:04.480 top of that Unit three, that buried by the ten thousand years soil the 204 00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:14.440 infield. How deep was it found about three meters three meters on the side, 205 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:18.480 So you were then the grab samples and you found it. So that 206 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:25.000 Kujohan stone, the artifact lying down on the top of the Unit three, 207 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:30.279 buried by three meters soils. So I mean as carpetate the soils, we 208 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:37.880 see that Kujiang stone artifacts. And it's also interesting because that Kujong stone lying 209 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:48.119 down there together with many quarts mean quarts crystals, yeah, grains, Yeah, 210 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.119 yeah, like many of them. I don't know for what, but 211 00:23:52.920 --> 00:24:00.519 it's it's unfortunate though that the many of that green quartz crystal has been gone. 212 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.240 But I still have like two or three of the quartz crystal with me. 213 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:11.319 So, uh, talk a bit about this artifact. Uh, does 214 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:17.000 it resonate when you hit it? Does it have any strange properties? Does 215 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:22.119 it? I mean, I don't know if you scanned it to see what 216 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:29.039 the composition is it's very odd looking. Yeah. No, as I said, 217 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:37.359 we haven't really study that in much details in the lab, the crystal 218 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:42.359 structures, the minerals, the composition, exact composition. Yeah, but yeah, 219 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:51.319 it's very peculiar. And the rocks is composed by the bassouti and site 220 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:56.839 which also has u special properties it has. It contained lots of it could 221 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:00.839 be my irons, but it's not all of them. Some of them. 222 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:07.039 If you hit the rock, it's sounding, it's like the musical stone, 223 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.680 you know, thinking thing interesting. Not all of them, just some of 224 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:19.839 them has that property that is the most unique artifact that you found. But 225 00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:25.880 I'm curious. I think I've seen a couple of other smaller pieces that look 226 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:30.480 like many of them. For me, yea, many of the articles that 227 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.440 looks like Kujang also is not the only one. We also have that have 228 00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:41.079 the same shape but bigger, larger like the size that Kujan stone is like 229 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:45.400 the side, but the others is like that size. There are many artifacts 230 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:51.400 actually they haven't talk about that much in our paper. Yeah. Where are 231 00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:56.200 they stored, Danny? Are they stored in a in a garage somewhere or 232 00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:03.759 well? Many of them is being put them back on the trends under Stavasians. 233 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:11.079 Some of them has been I think it's on the on the local gardens 234 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.839 of the local people who maintain society, and many of them has been gone. 235 00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:22.079 Yeah, they're probably stolen. Yeah yeah, and they some local people 236 00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:29.039 also salad. You know. Oh really, Oh that's too bad. Talk 237 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:36.400 about the room that you imaged when you were scanning the pyramid. I can't 238 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:41.720 remember if it's above the third level, between the first and second or whatever, 239 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:48.720 but I remember when you were describing it, you not only imaged it, 240 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:56.319 but there was some strange sound that was being emitted from it. You're 241 00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.440 talking about the chamber chamber? Is it the chamber? Yeah? Yeah, 242 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:04.279 yeah. I don't think I have talked about the sound that's coming to the 243 00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:08.200 chamber yet, because we happen to really dig into the chamber. We know 244 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:14.279 there are large chambers because it's from the drilling and be real, one of 245 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:21.000 the spots the water circulation that we use for the drilling has it's not come 246 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:26.680 back again, so it just lost many of them, like thirty two thousand 247 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.279 liters that's gone to the ground and it's still flashing down. So I have 248 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:34.680 to we have to stop the drilling because we don't want to flood the sides, 249 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:41.880 so there are a lot of chambers. And then from our geophysical survey 250 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:51.279 from the Earth associated tomography end up from the seismics tomography and given another ground 251 00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:56.680 penetential runner as well, we could delineate the chambers below the tarras one the 252 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:04.279 tras two like in the center of the sides at depth like twenty two thirty 253 00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:11.759 meters depth, and the location of the chambers is between unit two and you 254 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:18.160 need three. Unit three is the massive end side and Unit two is comprised 255 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.759 a stack of stones, including the Colonna rockstone. So we have convinced that 256 00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:27.759 it is not the natural hole on the end side because it's not just on 257 00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:33.400 the end side, but also on the rock layers that comprise many fragment rocks. 258 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:41.960 And the shape also is like rectangular, so yeah, sometimes like rectangular, 259 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:47.319 and it has also like the walls that we see on the sessmic tomography 260 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:53.000 scanning. Yeah, and what really intrigued me the chambers is not just one 261 00:28:53.079 --> 00:29:00.880 layer. They are void a large avoid between twenty two like thirty meters depth, 262 00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:07.599 but then the other larger chamber larger for its below that between like forty 263 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:12.680 to sixty meters depth. Oh my god, that's wid a much larger. 264 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:19.559 But we have to explore them more because like right now we only have that 265 00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:26.359 image from several a few a few of our super alliance, so it hasn't 266 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:33.839 really comprehensive super like that the several chamber. Yeah, but I'm very convincent 267 00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:41.319 other lard chamber. So there's two levels of the chambers indan and below that 268 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:48.920 chambers are a big reserve one which some of the water came out to the 269 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:57.400 front of the pyramids as the water spring the local people. That thing. 270 00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:02.720 It's like a second water. The water is really good, it's very natural. 271 00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:08.000 So that water has come it's it's it's came out from that large reservoir 272 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:14.759 under the ban. Oh, there's a natural reservoir that you discoverage. I 273 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:22.440 think it's a big recpterir under the mouth underd Yeah. The water, Uh, 274 00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:27.400 the water come up. So when we real like an eighteen meter the 275 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:33.480 water from down it's like come out to the really equipment, so that uh, 276 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:41.440 the water pressure at the water reservoir called thefer a kifer has some pressure. 277 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:49.680 Irefer yeah, has a pressure high pressure to push water up Yeah. 278 00:30:49.759 --> 00:31:02.119 Do you do you suppose that these rooms are relieving chambers, uh for the 279 00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:07.759 stability of the pyramid, or do you suspect that they may have been designed 280 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:17.440 uh for activities of some kind. I think it has been designed by activity. 281 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:23.759 I would say that why has maintained by our ancestors like three ways, 282 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:30.359 right, because that means three generations. Maybe a first generation constructed it, 283 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:37.359 and the second generation come after many years, and then they construct the pyramids, 284 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:42.079 and then they live also, and the third generations come and reconstruct the 285 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:48.839 youngest layer, which means they think that has very important. So I would 286 00:31:48.839 --> 00:32:00.640 suspect that what they consider a very important thing is on the chamber m especially 287 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:05.480 the deeper chamber. That the deepest chamber is if you look into the mountain 288 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:09.799 and the mount mound, that large chamber is like in the center of the 289 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:20.680 of the hill. Very interesting. We're going to take a short commercial break 290 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:25.799 to allow our sponsors to identify themselves and we'll be right back with my guest 291 00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:32.880 today, doctor Danny Hillman, coming to us from Java, Indonesia. We'll 292 00:32:32.920 --> 00:33:15.519 be right back. M h h. My guest today is doctor Danny Hillman 293 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:22.880 from Java, Indonesia. He is the principal investigator who excavated a pyramid known 294 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:30.839 as go Noon Penang and discovered it is over twenty thousand years old and was 295 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:37.759 created by an unknown civilization way before the time period that we believe sophisticated societies 296 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:47.160 existed. But you never found an entrance way into any of these inter chambers, 297 00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:55.119 did you know, like stone interrance way. So the thing is, 298 00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:00.920 you could imagine that this is a three layer, right, but such one 299 00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:06.039 layels you need to be you need to you need to one. So now 300 00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:09.559 you're on top of you need to one. So when we do survey in 301 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:15.960 two thousand from two dozen, two fourteen, especially in the two dozen fourteen, 302 00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:21.679 we are trying to find the access by the digging excavation, so we 303 00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:25.840 you know, we we're hoping that we find the entrance, like the door, 304 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:31.679 but we haven't found that yet. Uh. One of my friends like, 305 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:37.679 have an idea, why don't we just really you know, like to 306 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:42.199 the here. But I refuse it because that we will destroyed, it could 307 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:46.679 destroy the side. Yeah. And also I don't know whether if we uh 308 00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:52.039 you know, if we dig into the you need to whether you need to 309 00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:57.920 toss an entrance we don't know yet. We just have to conduct like a 310 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:02.880 full excavation of that pill, uh to know the entrance. That's what we 311 00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:08.280 hope. So that's also the problem because if we do just a regular study, 312 00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:14.960 a regular research in Gunbada, which will not be easy because according to 313 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:20.480 our procedure here in Indonesia archaeological excavation, we could escape if you could dig 314 00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:24.480 one trend. But then after they we finished that, we have to close 315 00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:30.199 it again. Oh no, I think another which is it's not good. 316 00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:36.440 So we have to if we would like to do like a full study in 317 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:43.639 Gnupada, we have to uh go to the we call it a consumption phase 318 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.920 of the pyramid, which allows us to do like a full excavation without have 319 00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:53.199 to close it again. Oh interesting, Yeah yeah, yeah, you're the 320 00:35:53.239 --> 00:36:00.000 president doesn't want you to disturb the integrity of the pyramids, so he's asked 321 00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:08.039 you to cover up what you what you're excavating. That's a challenge. Uh. 322 00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:17.719 In your ground penetrating radar, are you seeing tunnel systems in the pyramids 323 00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:27.840 at all? Or is it just rooms tunnels? Tunnels? So they're showing 324 00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:34.760 up on one, two, and three layers. Uh, Well, there 325 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:40.719 are there are many tunnels below the teals is, connecting the chambers on the 326 00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:45.119 central of the pyramids to the chambers on the southern part of the pyramids. 327 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:53.039 Uh, it's so in the especially in the racist sesmic tomography be must we 328 00:36:53.320 --> 00:37:00.400 do lots of seesmic tomography? No, I mean racisty tomography who at that 329 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:06.880 time? Yeah, but I would say that to define put them more about 330 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:09.920 the details of the chambers and the tunnels, we have to do much more 331 00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:23.960 soup face. Yeah more. Have you registered any frequencies toleric energy, toleric 332 00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:30.079 fields that are bubbling up from the base. In other words, does this 333 00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:37.760 pyramids sit on a toleric lay line of some kind? Yeah, you're talking 334 00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:42.480 about the frequency. Yeah, yeah, I'm not an expert on that, 335 00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:51.840 but many of my friends has a expertise in like the meditation, spiritual exercise 336 00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:59.000 and stuff, and many people feel that that frequency, you know there is 337 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:06.480 also so lately there are some group doing research on that frequency and they they 338 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:13.800 they have some instruments to record that frequency and they found has a very very 339 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.159 low frequency. They said, that's very strange. Uh. They said that 340 00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:22.199 the usual natural frequency is like from five words to whatever. Several times of 341 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:28.079 words, but in is like below five words something like that. So there's 342 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:32.840 some strange frequency in. But what I what you can feel many people can 343 00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:39.119 feel if we come up to go to the top, we feel peace, 344 00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:45.079 some kind of piece feeling, you know, very cool and you know it's 345 00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:54.159 really relaxing environment. So I would say that maybe come up from the frequency. 346 00:38:54.360 --> 00:39:00.760 I love to hear that you're getting a positive frequency. I think we 347 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:07.360 need to let people know that you have not been idle in your continual research. 348 00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:14.760 Talk about this. Three additional pyramids that you have uncovered in your research. 349 00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:19.119 Now how number one how did you find them? Was it lightar or 350 00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:23.639 just general surveys, survey charts? And number two, how do you know 351 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:31.840 their pyramids? Yeah? So yes, that's interesting. So in the past 352 00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:42.119 two years I found other pyramids in Indonesia that first in Lake Toba. Lake 353 00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:49.239 is very famous for the supervolcano Candra that has been erupted seventy four thousand years 354 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:54.840 ago. In central Sumatra, there are pyra means just like that's into one 355 00:39:54.920 --> 00:40:02.239 of the healed. You know, if you don't really looking at that carefully, 356 00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:08.119 you don't really searching for anything peculiar, you will think that it's just 357 00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:15.840 a natural formation something like that, because it's also covered by lots of vegetation. 358 00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:23.039 Yeah. But then I saw that on the where like I have an 359 00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:27.440 information from my friend who come there, and he said that there's some interesting 360 00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:34.960 about that place. We found a stack of rock like the fans like like 361 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:40.719 in Gurupada, megalitic structures on the on the flat level because in the valley. 362 00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:45.320 Yeah, and he said that that rock is still falling up to the 363 00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:51.039 you know up there. So I come there and I check it out and 364 00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:54.760 it's turned out it's a pyramid success like one hundred and twenty meters high. 365 00:40:55.199 --> 00:41:00.400 Wow. So yeah, and then after you know that and you see that 366 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:07.559 from a distance, it's just I figured, really obvious, and at that 367 00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:15.679 moment we just couldn't believe why for you know, for many years people miss 368 00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:17.480 it, you know, people like didn't see it. It's just like he 369 00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:25.880 didn't know, just hidden in the air magically. You know. It's funny 370 00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:30.079 though, if you come there and talk to the local people. Local people 371 00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:32.519 also doesn't really realize that. And some of them realize, okay, I 372 00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:37.719 know that's that is a cemetery because they use that terraces on the pyramid for 373 00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:42.199 the cemetery modern cemetery, but on the lower park. And then some people 374 00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:47.119 said that, oh yeah, I know that raps that is the from our 375 00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:53.280 ancestors who built it. But when I when we asked, okay when or 376 00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:57.599 I don't know, haart of the years by the south and I don't know 377 00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:01.159 it's been there. So there is there is a there is a history by 378 00:42:01.159 --> 00:42:07.320 the local people. They understand it to be by earlier people. That's right. 379 00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:15.360 And it's interesting though because the people a couple of Toba basically doesn't want 380 00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:21.440 to tell that secret, doesn't want to tell public about their ancestors. So 381 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:27.800 talk about is three sided. Right, Oh yeah, that's I found that 382 00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:34.159 recently. In Flores actually people know that Comodo Island the is an island, 383 00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:40.039 okay, the Kommo craters from the messogoic is the ASA periods. The Commodo 384 00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:44.039 Island is next to the Florest Island. That the big island, the Commodo 385 00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:49.559 Islands a small island and the best part of the Florest and that pyramid seed 386 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:54.880 and the center of the on the florist on the Florest island. And I 387 00:42:54.920 --> 00:43:00.000 came there because I have an earth bake study active thoughts that I found out 388 00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:06.400 acted for the water dram lots of water bram that need the seismic hazard epalations, 389 00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:10.039 and that pyramid sits only like a couple of kilometers up from that dam, 390 00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:15.320 and I also have a lighter data on that area, and so I 391 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:22.679 know there's something peculiar on the landscape of that pyramid. It's not it doesn't 392 00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:27.000 seem to be a geological formation. So so I checked that out and it 393 00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.440 turned out to be a pyramid that has three sides, has a three sides, 394 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:35.039 so it's a I think we called it the triangular pyramids or the tetrahedral 395 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:42.000 pyramids. Yeah pyramids, yeah, yeah, because all of the pyramids in 396 00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:45.679 the world has the four sides, right, like these are pyramids, but 397 00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:52.360 this pyramid has three faces. The height of the pyramid is like one hundred 398 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:55.639 to one hundred and twenty meters. What are the characteristics, Danny of that 399 00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:07.000 pyramid tetra Heaton Drian pyramid that make you feel that it's it's artificial? Uh? 400 00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:13.559 Yeah, I angeologists and I'm experts in avoiding the landscape. So that 401 00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:21.679 area that pyramid is in the below the Big pulcano, it's still active in 402 00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:28.559 the volcano, and it's rights that the eruption of that volcano create the thick 403 00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:36.239 layers of the brickshire volcanic crops around the wood. And the landscape of the 404 00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:44.480 area is very rock. What's rock is like roggien rouggien terrain stuff. But 405 00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:50.920 that pyramid is just like come out on that rock terrain and the topography is 406 00:44:51.079 --> 00:44:54.760 really smooth, really smooth and really you know, it's really regular. It's 407 00:44:54.840 --> 00:45:00.440 like a pyramid and stuff like that. So it's uh, from the landscape, 408 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:07.320 you should know that the rocks that from the hill should be different from 409 00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:12.480 the surrounding yeah, okay, from the texture, from the relief of the 410 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:19.360 topography. And second, the no erosion, like a very small erosion on 411 00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:24.719 that hill, it tells you that should be younger, like significantly younger than 412 00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:32.159 the surrounding topography. Its running topography, the volcanic deposit it's ages like one 413 00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:38.159 hundred thousand years old. Yeah, but this hill it looks like very young. 414 00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:43.480 It's looks like a thousand, like ten twenty thousand, I guess or 415 00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:52.559 something like that. So the geological hypothesis is this, it should not be 416 00:45:53.320 --> 00:46:00.880 comprised. You know, it is different from the surrounding rocks. That means 417 00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:08.840 the only possible geological phenomena if the rock is like the cylinder rocks that just 418 00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:16.000 stuck up there surrounding by the younger rocks, it's like all like the intrusive 419 00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:24.119 rocks, you know, the the massive intrusive rocks. So that's the geological 420 00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:32.880 hypothesis. Whether this is the the basement rocks comprised of the sediment of rocks, 421 00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:38.960 or is the intrusive rocks comprised by a massive ignorance rock. H Yeah, 422 00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:44.719 So when we check the location, it's not the sediment of rock, 423 00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:52.760 it's not the massive geological rock. It's comprised by the terrasis comprised by balls, 424 00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:58.519 rocks, fragment rocks that you know. So is it the same as 425 00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:02.239 is it the same as Gonoon Penang where they are building layer and then they're 426 00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:07.400 building a second layer, and then they're fortifying that with the first layer. 427 00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:17.800 It's not. Yeah, in in in some well in some cases is similar. 428 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:25.800 Also is standing out surrounding by a testuary volcanic rocks. It looks young 429 00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:31.320 and looks very smooth like these pyramids, but the shape of the pyramid in 430 00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:42.840 Florence is different. Ah, and the rock classes is possibly similar to also 431 00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:49.639 but on on the you know, the the preserved rock glasses on the on 432 00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:53.480 top of the mountain, but the side of the mountain that has been buried 433 00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:59.760 by soils. But yeah, what the details we got now yet because we 434 00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:07.320 have really do the surveys property. What what do you suspect when you see 435 00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:15.039 I mean you're you're finding additional pyramids? Uh? What do you suspect? 436 00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:21.079 Uh? Is the reason for this culture to build pyramids? Do you think 437 00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:31.039 it's just two reach the heavens and sanctify the gods? Or do you think 438 00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:37.079 that it had more of a a utility function in it if you were to 439 00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:44.119 guess or is it hard to say? Had to say it could it could 440 00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:52.559 be uti function, but it could also act as like temples. Temples. 441 00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:57.639 Yeah amazing. Yeah, I mean I can see you're like, you're you're 442 00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:02.639 kind of like wishing you had the money to go and you know, start 443 00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:07.960 digging at some of those other sites. Yeah. I hope we can do 444 00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:14.039 that soon. Do you think there's an opportunity for you to go to these 445 00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:17.760 other places? Yeah? Yeah, okay, we just did some fun to 446 00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:27.239 do that. Fantastic. I want to conclude with unfortunately a little bit of 447 00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:37.199 a negative in Graham Hancock's website. You you submitted a paper to the Archaeological 448 00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:47.440 Perspective column and received a negative reaction and also your paper was retracted and rejected. 449 00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:55.920 Why was it rejected number one? And what was the reason for them 450 00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:06.480 to not allow the paper in this appeer reviewed publication. Yeah, so the 451 00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:12.039 people has been reviewed for like nine months and there are lots of proficient to 452 00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:15.320 the paper, so it has no problem. We have a lot of good 453 00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:20.719 discussion when we in the process of submitting the paper until it's accepted by the 454 00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:29.320 Junes and published. So why it's been retracted, It's just mentioned on the 455 00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:36.519 retraction notice. People can read it. So the reason for the retraction because 456 00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:42.239 there are some people who are anonymous. We don't know who they are, 457 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:47.440 whether an expert or not, we don't know because anonymous as people third partistical 458 00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:57.639 that has it's a concern, raise a concern that our paper has a major 459 00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:02.920 errors. The stating what the major errors, and then it's been evaluated by 460 00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:10.599 the general editors. They said they evaluated the concerns and they also communicate with 461 00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:15.559 us whether we agree or not. Of course we disagree, and we ask 462 00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:25.880 them to give like a scientific evidence of that concern of their They thought, 463 00:51:25.960 --> 00:51:30.920 why it's a major error, but they could they don't. They didn't give 464 00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:38.480 us any like proper scientific explanation or evidence. It just said under the attraction, 465 00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:46.400 notice that our paper has a major error because our carbon dating radio carbon 466 00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:58.159 dating is from the soil samples that has no relationship with anthropogenic activities or artifacts. 467 00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:00.320 Why were they even dis us that? I mean, it's like this, 468 00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:04.840 but they don't discuss it. Why they think so? Oh, so 469 00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:08.960 they're just throwing rocks at you, right, So it's a sense of I 470 00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:14.880 would say, it's not so it is going to be any chance that that 471 00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:21.360 that they will allow the paper to be published? Ah? Or do you 472 00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:28.440 think they're just holding it up because it causes too much controversy? Well, 473 00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:32.599 but the good thing is they under reflection they say that we don't agree with 474 00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:43.880 their opinion. And if the our paper is attracted by one publisher, that 475 00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:46.960 means we could publish it again in another publisher if you want, we have 476 00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:55.119 we could just publish it another journals, like rewrite the papers and submitted again. 477 00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:01.320 Our plan is we will define the paper into like two or three papers, 478 00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:06.239 because we think that our papers is just too pig you know, the 479 00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:13.000 content is just too heavy. Have having lots of aspect that people we are 480 00:53:13.039 --> 00:53:17.519 not easy to understand from archaeology, geology, the OPEC face Mike tomography, 481 00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:22.639 Grandpa is rather so our people is really has a lot on it. So 482 00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:27.880 it's very dense. It's very dense we have. We would like to divide 483 00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:32.519 them into a few paths so people will easy to understand and submit it again 484 00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:40.639 to add the Journal's that's what our plan. Do you still feel that the 485 00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:51.199 archaeological community is shocked by your discovery? And I think, I mean, 486 00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:55.480 do you still have a sense that they just can't seem to get over themselves 487 00:53:55.960 --> 00:54:05.199 and accept your dating of twenty thousand years for the pyramid? The retraction of 488 00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:10.599 the pit of the our paper to us, that proves that our paper really 489 00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:16.840 strengthening their establishment. They think it's a big thing, so they have to 490 00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:22.159 retract them. Yeah, so that's a big deal for them. So they 491 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:27.840 afraid of our paper. If not, they would would not retack our paper. 492 00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:34.639 So when in the redaction, in the before the retaction, I also 493 00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:42.719 suggest the publisher not to retact the people the paper, but you know, 494 00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:52.480 facilitate the scientific discuss through the post publication critics. So it could be discussed 495 00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:57.760 like openly in the cientific community. But they are not allow us to you 496 00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:02.599 know, they're not they're doing that. Then a cloud that the scientific discuss 497 00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:07.760 to be open to you can't you can't debate. Yeah, so I think 498 00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:16.800 they debated like publicly that one month. Will you do you since there's a 499 00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:27.679 fear of acceptance. I mean, you've got tons of data that show good 500 00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:34.199 solid evidence from your core samples to your C fourteen dating. Yeah, you're 501 00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:40.159 surveying. It just seems like I mean, people like Zahi Hawas are like, 502 00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:45.519 it's not a pyramid because it's not like Egyptian pyramids. Well that's so 503 00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:52.519 backwards in his thinking. Is it just that you're up against old thinking and 504 00:55:52.519 --> 00:56:00.000 and what you're dealing with is a pyramidal uh community that designed a different kind 505 00:56:00.039 --> 00:56:06.960 of a pyramid, and it's just too much for the orthodoxy to to accept. 506 00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:13.880 Yeah, it's a big things. If it's that it's opened to the 507 00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:21.199 public and we continue to study at the bill open you know, many many 508 00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:30.679 things, many forbidden things, yeah. So, but people not many people 509 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:38.519 understand that the to solve the controversy is not difficult because what we say, 510 00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:46.719 uh that the unit to one you need two layers. It's exposed until now, 511 00:56:46.840 --> 00:56:52.920 so people could see that on the surface. So that's actually the big 512 00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:58.840 mistake of the uh, the previous archaeology. But to do because they think, 513 00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:05.960 uh, you know, exposed in the top of the the megarthic site. 514 00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:12.559 They think that some of them, some of the sculumuna rocks of them 515 00:57:12.679 --> 00:57:17.880 is a natural rock formation. But in fact they're all man made layers and 516 00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:25.320 it's it's obvious and that the rock Tassa is on top ofang hill. So 517 00:57:25.480 --> 00:57:31.639 if like a team of geologists and archaeologists come together to the site and discuss 518 00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:38.280 together, I would say that the controversy will will be. Let me just 519 00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:45.039 finish with that thought that you just made. Have you had groups of scientists 520 00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:52.360 with you at Ganon Pa Dag and walk through the facility and then show them 521 00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:59.559 the paperwork and the research that you got from your surveys. Yes, yes, 522 00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:04.760 especially like ten years ago. Yeah, we come up to gun Padang 523 00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:12.639 with lots of scientists, geologists and what was there conclusion? Most of them 524 00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:15.519 has no argue about that. I mean they agree with a lot of the 525 00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:24.199 shay. You know, that's including the the Director General for the Archaeology who 526 00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:28.280 come with me to them, with the Ministry of the Cultures also to come 527 00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:30.679 to Gunpadan, and then we discussed it and there's oh yeah, they's agree 528 00:58:30.679 --> 00:58:35.239 it's a Maine made suste. It's very obvious, you know, on the 529 00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:39.079 side. But after that it's gone, you know, there's still obvious resistance, 530 00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:45.840 and I think there's the old guard h wants to adhere to the current 531 00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:53.039 history that there were just hundreds and gatherers after six thousand BC or something, 532 00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:58.360 which is kind of sad. Danny, It's been a real pleasure speaking with 533 00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:02.880 you as well. What do you think it would make a difference if you 534 00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:09.000 did a survey and you were excavating and you found something that says this place 535 00:59:09.079 --> 00:59:16.119 is from Limoria or move uh, which would be a pretty big deal. 536 00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:23.880 But do you hope that you one day uncover an artifact that has perhaps writing 537 00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:31.039 or is in a certain configuration that would define the builders of that place as 538 00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:39.400 a sophisticated race of people. Yes, I'm hoping so, Like I hope 539 00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:45.599 that someday I could go into the temples, I would say, I'm you 540 00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:51.760 know, I'm very convinced that you will find something on the tender that tell 541 00:59:51.880 --> 00:59:58.719 us the past. We have we have, you know, not just but 542 00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:04.000 I have lots of other evidence also in anitia like that three other pyramids, 543 01:00:04.199 --> 01:00:07.960 and I haven't told you that. I also has an evidence of the sunken 544 01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:14.559 harbor like sixty meters under the water, like five kilometers harbor, A harbor, 545 01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:24.440 a harbor like like name it all. Now, the harbor, the 546 01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:30.639 harbor for the ship to come is like a square harbor with the flat and 547 01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:36.679 the square deep water. But in the water that harbor is like sixty meters 548 01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:43.159 below the sea surface. It means that the harbor is very old. It 549 01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:47.079 should be older than ten thousand years old. Oh my god. And where 550 01:00:47.159 --> 01:00:54.800 is it located? Is it close to Gonoon and not from few You're finding 551 01:00:54.840 --> 01:01:00.719 more amazing sites. I I don't know. You're shocking me just to talk 552 01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:06.559 about that. It's fantastic. Hey, much success, continued success. I 553 01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:12.280 really hope that someone can help fund you so that you can continue at hes 554 01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:16.480 at Goon penag to open one of those or one of those chambers one of 555 01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:25.239 those spaces and really see what's in there. Yeah, fantastic, I hope 556 01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:30.119 so, I hope. So, Danny, always a pleasure and uh, 557 01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:32.559 blessings to you and your family. I want to thank you for joining me. 558 01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:44.320 Thank you, thank you, Bety. Nice talking to you. I 559 01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:49.199 think that Danny's telling us that where he is digging, where this pyramid is 560 01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:55.480 located, known as Goon Penang, is a potential and that surrounding area is 561 01:01:55.480 --> 01:02:00.480 a potential game changer in more ways than we realize. This new harbor that 562 01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:07.960 he mentions is fascinating older than ten thousand years old. That's where a lot 563 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:12.960 of the future really is going to change things. And then we start diving 564 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:21.400 under the ocean along the coastal areas, we're going to see lots of civilizations. 565 01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:24.760 We see one in Duarca, which is off the coast of India, 566 01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:31.239 but I mean that was dated to twelve thousand years But we need to get 567 01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:37.840 research off of like the coast of United States East and West coast. I 568 01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:45.719 know in Mexico they've done satellite imagery of the Caribbean area and I feature this 569 01:02:45.800 --> 01:02:51.320 in my book, where you have a snota Sanota you have a white road 570 01:02:51.400 --> 01:03:00.280 known as a sakbe that travels from say Coba into an area around to to 571 01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:05.719 Loom, so they're connecting, and then it goes into the water, and 572 01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:09.119 because the water is only a few feet deep, you can follow it with 573 01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:15.480 satellite imagery out to about a quarter of a mile and then it disappears. 574 01:03:16.280 --> 01:03:21.239 And there's a great deal of speculation that there's a number of major Mayan cities 575 01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:24.960 that are off the coast. In fact, it's a couple of my contacts 576 01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:31.599 that our elders believe that there's a very prominent city off the Caribbean coast in 577 01:03:31.639 --> 01:03:36.880 this area that I was just mentioning. You see, soakby is running into 578 01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:42.400 the water all through the Yucatan, in through different parts of Mexico, and 579 01:03:43.519 --> 01:03:47.639 in Guatemala. There's actually ruins of a city that's about half a mile off 580 01:03:47.719 --> 01:03:53.719 the coast. What this means is that the water levels rose to such a 581 01:03:53.760 --> 01:04:00.880 degree that they covered the cities. And if we have a city that's a 582 01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:06.000 couple hundred feet under the water, that means that that ruin that city is 583 01:04:06.199 --> 01:04:12.639 thousands and thousands of years old because the waters rose over ten thousand years ago. 584 01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:16.559 So that's a ball, that's a game changer. That is a game 585 01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:26.280 changer. And because the funding for underwater excavation, archaeological excavation is so expensive 586 01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:34.400 and you have to have teams of trained divers slash archaeologists, it's just I 587 01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:39.719 mean, it's gonna have to have We're gonna have to develop cheap submarines or 588 01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:45.800 something like this. So fantastic, real great to have Danny on the program 589 01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:49.559 and really wonderful exploration and I'm sure we're gonna hear much more from him in 590 01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:56.239 the near future. Hey, I want to mention that we have two upcoming 591 01:04:57.079 --> 01:05:03.840 end of the year tours. One is in August. It's the granted Turkey 592 01:05:03.880 --> 01:05:10.800 Tour August fourteenth to the twenty fourth, and that is almost full. We 593 01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:14.679 got a few spots left. And the final tour of the year is the 594 01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:20.119 Sacred Temples of Yucatan, Mexico, November eighth through the seventeenth. That's just 595 01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:26.719 starting to fill. But I'll tell you that's a real reasonable tour price wise, 596 01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:29.920 and they're all reasonable. We make sure of that. This one is 597 01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:32.639 in Yucatan, which is very easy to get to from the United States or 598 01:05:32.719 --> 01:05:39.360 Canada. We're based in Mereada. We have a great, great We have 599 01:05:39.400 --> 01:05:45.880 a really good itinerary of may insights that have new excavations, new ruins, 600 01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:50.000 and we have made sure that we can at least climb half of the sites 601 01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:58.719 that we go to. That's ushmol Ek Baalam, Mayapan and a couple of 602 01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:01.239 the smaller ones like lab Or SiO. We'll be able to climb on those 603 01:06:01.239 --> 01:06:08.119 pyramids that is not typical for most sites. And I got to tell you 604 01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:11.920 it's great fun to climb these pyramids because they're sitting on lay lines, which 605 01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:16.440 means that you're absorbing the energy. For the full itinerary on both Turkey in 606 01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:23.960 August or Mexico in November. Go to earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours 607 01:06:24.679 --> 01:06:30.360 and see the itinerary and register. If you have any questions about our tours, 608 01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:35.039 send me an email send it to earth Ancients for you at gmail dot 609 01:06:35.039 --> 01:06:39.159 com and I'll get right back to you. I got to mention this right 610 01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:42.239 now. I did let the cat out of the bag. For twenty twenty 611 01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:45.760 five, we have an Easter Island tour in the spring of that year with 612 01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:50.360 doctor Edwin Barnhardt. We'll be in Turkey again and then we are doing Day 613 01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:57.960 of the Day in October with doctor Ed Barnhard and that is at t call. 614 01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:04.039 It's in Guatemala. It's a Petan tour and those pyramids are active and 615 01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:09.679 we're gonna be enjoying that early in the morning, but on the day of 616 01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:13.119 the day, so we'll be celebrating along with the locals. Again. For 617 01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:19.519 more information, go to Earthancients dot com forward slash Tours. Okay, that's 618 01:07:19.519 --> 01:07:23.079 it for this program. I want to think my guest today, doctor Danny 619 01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:28.440 Hillman, coming to us from Indonesia, and as always, the team of 620 01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:33.800 Gail Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys 621 01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:38.480 are rock all right, take care, be well and we will talk to 622 01:07:38.519 --> 01:08:01.960 you next time. Sixty