Welcome to this edition of The High Strangest Factor, copyrighted on the Paranormal UK
Radio Network. I'm your host, Steve wd Andy Mercer and I have been
interviewing interesting people in the realm of the paranormal and unknown for half a decade.
There's no reason why we can't make it a full decade. Annie Mercer
can't be with us tonight, but I have an earth shattering announcement coming up.
Welcome Susie Bastiel, Welcome back. Hi Steve, how are you?
Thanks for having me back. I am beyond wonderful and what I'd like you
to do first is let everybody know how to find you and the kind of
things you're doing online on Facebook and so forth. Yeah, you can find
me on YouTube, the Puck Wedgy Whisper. I also have a blog puck
Wedgies dot blogspot dot com, so of course I talk about Puck Wedgies.
I also talk a lot about some ancient stone sites in New England, and
on my YouTube channel we talk about any kind of fake news that needs to
be dispelled in the paranormal world. I will say, so you think there
is some fake news out there, there is definitely horse loads yes, next
way to put it. Coincidentally, we're going to be dealing with that tonight.
Should we tell people about the susiecam that they can find on your Facebook
page? Yeah, there is. There's actually a Susiecam compilation on YouTube as
well. So when I am out in the swamp looking for puck wedgies or
whatever else you and find in the swamp, I have started wearing a cam
to get a Susie POV of me trapesing through the swamps of New England.
Should people take jeramamine before they watch that. Absolutely. I am a very
small person, so it's a little bit rough getting through some of those trails.
It's very good, Okay, without any further ado, I know people
are budding their nails that are on the edge of their seat. The announcement
I have is that well andymrs and I have been doing this for about five
years, Susie Bastile will also be an equal partner in the highest Rasis factor.
So you can you can all applaud if you want. Congratulations comes up.
That's good, thank you. It is a huge honor to be included
with the likes of Steven Andy. Well, you know I used to make
a lot of stupid jokes about pay raises and all that sort of thing.
But I want you to know I have matured and I'm not gonna do any
more stupid pay raise jokes. You matured since you to me two weeks ago.
Yes, that's right, but think to the prestige. You know,
you'll be on the street and say hey, I'm a member of the High
Strangers factor, and they'll say what So anyway, it'll be a lot of
fun about any further ado. Let's let me introduce our guests today. You
can just click on the right part here, okay. Jackie and Bill Kuslis
are Phenomenology Research Professionals PRP. They are the authors of Bridging the Tragedy,
a psychological study based upon the nineteen sixty seven Silver Ridge disaster in Point Pleasant,
West, Virginia, Mothman, and post traumatic growth, a phenomenon that
often occurs after tragedy. They are quantitative researchers who seek to understand the connections
between psychology, spirituality, and the paranormal by applying the scientific method. Bill's
interest in the paranormal began in the late seventies with the original Project UFO television
series in two thousand and three, was introduced to the Mothman Prophecies movie and
it changed his life. Jackie is a retired postmaster and a current business owner
operator. She specialized in research, data analytics, and connecting the dots between
intuition, perception and reality. She's a first hand paranormal experiencer, including UFOs,
disembodied voices, apparitions, and psychic phenomena. On much First. Twenty
twenty four, they embarked upon their next study, which investigates the relationships between
trauma and paranormal experiences. Like Reaching the Tragedy, they intend to focus on
the positive outcomes that their participants had gained by experiencing these phenomena. If you
are interested in participating in the study, they welcome you to contact them.
They live in Sycamore, Illinois, sixty miles northwest of Chicago, but closer
to cornfields than skyscrapers. Sam Moranto is an investigative researcher best known for his
work on the TI Hindley Park mass sightings of two thousand and four, the
O'Hair gate C seventeen UAP incident of two thousand and six, and others.
These mass sightings have been featured in several television programs such as the History Channels,
UFO Hunters episodes, Invasion Illinois, and Aliens at the Airport, Datelight,
NBC's ten Best UFO Encounters, and many more. Two other noted investigations
were the Lake Cook car Incident of two thousand and eight and the Chicago Mothman
Saga of twenty eleven to present. Each were featured in popular television shows,
documentaries, books, and publications. As a guest on radio and television shows
as well as a requested public speaker, Sam has always made it a point
to emphasize the fact that the UFO UAP phenomena is genuine, yet each account
must be evaluated on its own merit. Sam has been a media consultant,
UFONT field investigator since one Star Team member, photo Analyst, Photo Analysis Team
Member upon State Director of Illinois since two thousand and seven. His experience with
the UFO phenomenon began in October nineteen fifty nine. He delivered his first presentation
on the topic in nineteen sixty seven. Lady and gentlemen, welcome to the
High Strangels Factor. Evay. So tonight we're going to talk about at least
that we're going to start to talk about a so called Chicago Mothman phenomenon.
Now, when I do shows and so forth, sometimes mostly at Mothman Win
O one, a lot of that people will bring up the Chicago Mothman,
and a lot of them have no idea of the controversy surrounding it. So
anyone, if you can answer this, or all of you can, what
would you what would you tell somebody that has no idea about the about the
history of this, Uh, these incidents and uh and the sort of questionable
sightings of some of them, questionable reports of some of them. Well,
I had the first report that ever came in, and it came in to
move on and uh, of course we got bad rapped all the way through
because we actually do investigative work on this subject matter, because it was a
flying object. Now, as far as an encapsulated description, it is a
phenomena unto itself, because we discovered things elements to this that were not obvious,
let's put it that way. And this is far more strange than one
could ever imagine. There is hoaxing, There is nonsense. There are obviously
misidentifications human things that you would expect. But below this, even those individuals
that are obviously trying to hoax or do something unusual like that, there is
an element, a theme, or a stream of very unusual correlations and synchronicities
that one cannot normally expect to find. I can tell you that we had
of the first in two thoy and eleven, we had the first sighting on
of course, it would have been August twenty second, and we had to
have that come in being August twenty second, because that's birthday obviously, so
that's when. And the funny thing is these reports, the first two reports
came in in October thirteenth, twenty eleven, now twenty eleven. When you
think of you should know all this quite well would have been during that time
period would have been the tenth Mothman Festival in Point Pleasant. And it just
so happened who was on the radio that morning and that evening the day prior,
Bill Well, The evening that the very first sightings occurred or were reported,
or the date that was given when they were reported, was when Andy
Colvin was on Coast to coast day on the evening before. So it's as
if the message was out there and something or somebody responded to it exactly.
And the person who took what happened is he was coming into town. He
lived in the area, and it took place at sixty third and Pulaskiing.
If anybody knows the location, I know it quite while had been pasted it
probably, Oh, I don't know, maybe a thousand times, because it
was in my neighborhood and I'd passed it every day going to school. The
location had this huge statue of a Native American statue, this big Indian statue,
and at the right angle its thumb appears to be some other appendage.
So it became extremely famous. And the guy that came back into town and
he grew up in that neighborhood, but he wanted to take a picture of
it, so he takes a photo, unknowing to him that there was something
else in that photograph. When he got home, when he downloads it,
looks at it, he sees this unusual thing that he can't really figure out
what the heck it is. It's in the air. And of course this
was the twenty second of August. The twenty first of August, mind you,
of two thousand and four was the first mass sighting in Tinley Park,
so that may have sprang into his mind if he was following the news on
that. But either way, word got out on this sighting, and by
the way, it didn't get reported to until October thirteenth. Damn, I'm
slow today. October thirteenth was when it was actually reported to move on.
So that report comes in. Then all of a sudden, on another website,
another report comes in, and that was apparently two college two college students,
these two young ladies who were running about their apartment getting ready to go
out. And the narrative's pretty hysterical. It sounds like a B movie,
wouldn't you say, Well, and everything except quality details that you would need
to get the description of what may be attached to the two red lights are
orange, right, orange lights and red lights were that looked like eyes peering
through there I think was third third floor window of a five story apartment building,
which doesn't exist in that area because there are none. And all of
a sudden, they decided they had gotten a call from a boyfriend. One
of them. They're screaming. These people are watching a baseball game simultaneously while
this is going on, and noticed a large figure, a black figure,
A light minds you a light into the air, which is the opposite,
the opposite of what a light means, and it takes off. But yet
the funny thing is they said they will see what it was because of the
moonlight and the you know, the moonlight being a near full moon. It
was sixteen percent. I believe it wasn't a near full moon, and there
was no way that that was relevant because it was also raining out, So
there was a lot of conflicting data there going on. So right off the
bat, when you take a look at these two and to tell you the
truth, the other account i'dn't even pay attention to because everything started to spring
back into reality in two thousand and seven, and unfortunately people have the dates
wrong. Were the first report in twenty seventeen, excuse me, was on
April to seventh in Oz Park. And this is where we'll get into the
oz scenario, and I think you'll find it interesting getting back to the August
twenty first sighting. Apparently the sighting that took place that these girls seeing was
just two eyeballs or something red lights looking at them, supposedly, and that
took place on September thirtieth. It was on a Friday, so that's thirty
nine days in between the two sightings. And then of course that event was
on the thirtieth, and the thirtieth to the thirteenth is thirteen days. If
you divide those, of course you see that they're prime numbers to visible by
thirteen and it comes out to three and one. Then what happens is the
very next day back and we're still in twenty or twenty eleven, yeah,
twenty eleven. All of a sudden, another report goes comes into this other
reporting center where this individual is taking a break from his studies and they're out,
he's out or she's out, we don't know, with their girlfriend and
gone to the park and this would be near the University of Chicago, where
they see this large man with wings flying over and they thought at first it
was somebody on a hang glider, and as it got closer, the person
says, it reminded me of a large sugar glider that I would normally have
seen back home in Tasmania. Now, when I seen Tasmania, first thing
that comes to mind in my mind is Oz, the Land of Oz,
because it's an island state of Australia, and it was just it struck me
as being so unusual when I read that. Now, that was a October
the fourteenth, So we have these correlations or these unusual distancings of in divisible
by thirteen except for that oddman there. Now, what happens from October thirteenth
to April the seventh is a span in between of two thousand and two days
between the two. It doesn't It's very strange, and two thousand and two
is highly significant when it comes to Mothman scenario. Of course, that was
the first Mothman Festival and it was also the release of the Mothman prophecies.
I found this so interesting that we have these correlations. And here we are
in oz Park in two thousand and seventeen, which of course is the fifty
year anniversary of the event of the Mothman Festival. Was celebrating the fifty years
of the event that Silver Bridge collapse, et cetera. And the event that
actually took place or said took him place in oz Park. By the way,
oz Park is an interesting park in itself that it's thirteen acres point almost
thirty one thirteen point thirty one and it lies within an area that is an
opt to triangle that is remnant to a nomon. You know what a nomon
is on a sun dial. It's also a highly significant image in Masonic imagery
and symbolism. And it repeats and repeats again where we have these un usual
occurrences. Now Here, she is walking through the park and I'm assuming it
was around seven point thirty because I'm recalling it. The individual that received the
report actually stating that they interviewed this person who was a corporate attorney of some
ten years and lived nearby two blocks away to be exact. And this would
be in the DePaul University area, the northern section. It would be the
northern campus. And she's walking through the park and in the park they have
in the Yellow Brook Road the park, you have her walking her little terrier
dog, and the dog is a jack Russell Terrier. It's not a caring
terrier. That was of course Toto in the movie, which by the way,
began shooting October thirteenth, nineteen thirty eight. I don't know if you
knew that. And the funny thing is the Wizard of oz Oz appears for
shooting. By the way, Morgan Frank Morgan. He played five parts in
The Wizard of Oz. He showed up on October the fourteenth for the Force
first day of shooting. So here she is, she's walking her dog by
the way. This is the only case where it came in where they actually
assigned an anonymous or a fictitious name to the individual. The individual. The
name they gave to the individual was Tammy. Now Toto's real name is Terry.
What was what you could see in the actual report an interview is a
very in depth amount of detail given to how intelligent the dog is. And
you see a lot of these reports that came in from certain individuals, a
lot of emphasis emphasis on animals and their knowledge of these animals. It's very
interesting. So here she is, she's walking through the park. She turns
around and she's facing an area that would be where they have the baseball diamonds.
There's four baseball diamonds out there. They also have bright lights at that
time going on like stadium lights, two sets of them, and the field
by the way was in disrepair, looked like heck. And I actually have
an aero photo from satellite of the park that day showing that there were people
out there playing baseball, having a good time earlier in the day, and
I'm assuming many of them may have still hung around later because it was nice
out. In fact, as she said, I gave my my exercise of
she had one or these treadmills. She gave the treadmill a break, another
person giving a break because we are going to have we have nice weather.
We take the dog out and we encounter, you know, some scary ass
thing, you know, seven feet tall with wings sticking up out of its
back. And she was so a gas by it that she was actually frozen
in place and then had to sit down and watched it as it alighted.
Is it this one didn't light it actually jetted it into the air. And
the funny thing is the description reminded me of so many other things. First
of all, the first encounter that Dorothy had, of course, was with
the the Scarecrow. Now, when you think of some black, scary object,
you know, scary tall being jettising up into the air. I was
introduced to the movie that horror movie, Jeepers Creeper. Are you aware of
that movie at all? Yeah, the characteristics were very similar to that,
And of course Jeepers creepers is what you would say if you didn't want to
take Jesus Christ's name in vain and say, oh Jesus Christ, you say
jeepers, creepers. And the funny thing is in the movie of Cheapers Creepers,
there is in one of the series where there or there is scarecrows being
placed on cross as there's three Did you ever see that? There were three
crosses and they were putting up the scarecrow, and the boy turns and he
sees it and it comes to life and gets him. Well, three crosses,
of course you're thinking resurrection, crucifixion, etc. Cheapers Creepers. It
all falls in line and the scarecrow and they're using a scarecrew. And what
happens is during this whole period of time, she gets frightened and she's thinking,
well, it could tear me from limb to limb. But then she
says, oh, I wasn't really afraid, as I felt that maybe if
I don't disturb it and provoke it, it won't hurt me. And maybe
it's just like the geese. Like the geese migrating through, imagine a bunch
of these things migrating through now, this is an attorney, okay, and
the first person she calls or sends a report to is this website instead of
the police. And the reason why they sent it in is because they were
so concern about the well being of people in the community and what may happen
if they go to the park. So and by the way, during this
period of time, not far from there, it was at one five four
to three Division, which would be south from there, at the Chopin Theater
they had that it was The Terrible, the Wonderful and Terrible Wizard of Oz
being played at seven point thirty. An interesting coincidence. Now, of course
L. Frank Baum, the creator of the Wizard of Oz, wrote the
book The Wizard of Oz in of all places is Chicago, and he lived
in Humble Park, and I believe his address was like sixteen sixty seven Humble
Drive. And when he lived there, he would he actually named the Elbuck
Road after the streets, the street itself, how the light would glisten off
of it, So it was. It's a very interesting thing. There's far
too much to go into with L. Flang Baum, but I'll introduce you
to him. And the fact that that wasn't the only book that he wrote
that year. There was another book that introduced another character, which was a
dragon, which is also a drake, and that's very important. The first
three reports that came in had automatic tie ins with the Wizard of Oz.
The next report we received was at a very large market, and it was
a produce market where this gentleman comes in on his two o'clock shift, looks
up and and sees that there's this strange owl looking, large owl looking creature
on top of the roof, and in a matter of time they start throwing
rocks at it. Now does that sound familiar at all, the throwing of
rocks, Yes, Like, I think what you're referring to Sam is Faye
de Witt and her brother in their sighting at the I think the North Power
Plant where they were throwing rocks at the mothman creature that was on top of
the building. There was all these correlations, like with multiple other things,
and always there is always something having to do with the original point. Pleasant
The other thing is on the day that happened or the report came in or
where it took place, was on Easter Sunday. Now we have the resurrection,
Okay, the resurrection. Now that first report in twenty seventeen did not
come to move On. It went to this other source, but that was
the same individual and website that received the two prior ones that I mentioned in
twenty eleven. So here we have a scenario. One report comes to move
on, two reports come to this other individual, and then in twenty seventeen
they get the first report. Then two more reports come in to us,
that being the one with the owl and or they were throwing rocks at it.
The funny thing there is the individual's last name is one of the characters
from The Wizard of Oz, which would have been the next one or the
last one that they would meet. The area that it's in, there are
seventy seven areas within the city of Chicago. That area is called the hard
of Chicago, and it's just in that area is known as number thirty one.
There's just like gobs of things related to these underlying undertow of numbers and
very unusual stuff. I have a couple of questions, what do do you
do? We know what kind of IP addresses? Thank you for coming from
Yes, So if the first three we had one more event take place,
and that place took place. That took place in the Humble Park area.
Again, you see the correlations there in the Humble Park area where this gentleman
on Easter Sundays with his son and his homies. By the way, nobody
says homies anymore, at least not out there. It's weird and all of
a sudden, you know, somebody scared it and it took off. But
anyways, that individual's name also ties in with correlation with L. Frank Baum,
and that has to do with the other character, an creature, a
drake. So I can't say the names, but you know what I'm saying
it, I'm going in. Now. What we have is two reports coming
in that short period of time. Then we had one more report that is
supportive that comes in a day earlier. Apparently took place on April the fifteenth.
April the sixteenth was when those other two events took place, which was
Easter Sunday, and that report came in from a teacher who was with her
husband. Well, by the way, what's interesting is they give descriptions of
hythe the one individual who I just mentioned at one location where we're throwing rocks
at the the owl, the massive owl, he was six foot two.
Now at this other the next report, which was from a marina in Chicago,
they were out on the lake, mind you, They had small craft
warnings, the wind was horrible, and they're out on the lake celebrating at
around nine something at night, and they're out two miles mind you, and
she sees through the moonlight that there's these large bat like creatures and she states
that these are larger than a fox bat because she knows what that looks like.
She's looked it up and it was bigger than her husband was six foot
four. Now, obviously, the way she was able to figure that out,
her husband must have been flying standing next to it, or maybe one
of these things came down and they took a photograph. Who knows, but
there's absolutely no way, first of all, that there was moonlight out because
the moon wasn't up for approximately two more hours, and being on the this
would have been like one of the first days you'd get out on the lake.
It was a nice day, but it was crazy the weather, you
know, the lake was nuts and it was extremely cold. You wouldn't survive
long if you fell in the lake during that period of time. It seems
so out of touch with reality. And apparently they said they took a photograph
but it was too dark. I don't care how dark it is. You
attach it to your file and said to it. Meanwhile, to your point,
the three of the three reports that we received, two of them came
from the same ipatris, which is what is it one day one out of
eight billion to one or something like that, and it obviously tells you it's
the same Yeah, it's the same source, same router, not server necessarily.
Now those are the first three, and I'll take some more questions and
let Bill talk a little bit there. Susie, do you want to step
in here? I am a little bit. You mentioned my favorite movie first
of all, Cheepers Creepers, and then you know, we got into the
symbolism and the numerology a bit, so Jeepers Creepers comes back. I would
believe it's every twenty three years. Have you found connections with that number and
these sightings at all? Twenty three years for twenty three days? What is
that equal? So twenty three plus twenty three is forty six the amount of
people who passed away into Silver Bridge disaster. It's also the same distance between
bridges. Once the Silver Bridge collapsed, remaining bridges that were closest to Point
Pleasant were Huntington and Pomeroy, forty six miles between the two of them.
Also, Okay, so now help me out here. Some at least some
of these reports have a lot of problems with them. Buildings that aren't that
tall, the weather's not right, obviously, somebody's spinning a tail the same
IP address in some cases, however, we what are we talking about?
Coincidence, synchronicity? Are they are people creating this stuff to mirror elements of
the Wizard of Eyes? Are they that smart? That's where the weird stuff
jumps similar stuff? I could? Yeah, because Steve, what I'd like
to do is share with you guys a little bit, with probably Jackie's help,
especially about some of the things that we found in doing ghost box sessions,
both in Thatcher Woods, which is close to where a lot of the
sightings were reported in the Chicago Land area by O'Hare Airport, and how that
connected to Parkersburg, West Virginia, and how that connected to the two endy
Way Park, which is right where the rivers come together Endpoint Pleasant. Can
you talk about that the you mean me, Well, I mean Jackie,
can you talk to that? Okay? Well, the first ghost bock session
was in Robinson Was, which is said to be the most haunted woods in
Illinois. And it's right in youar O'Hare Airport And that's why it was done
there is because the reports were coming in at O'Hare Airport and there are several
questions asked, but one of the questions was what does thirteen and thirty one
have to do with it? Because thirteen and thirty one keep popping up all
over Chicago, all over Point Pleasant. And the response from it was a
place to go visit. So a friend of ours and she got it on
the internet and was looking at, you know, places in Point Pleasant that
would be intersections of thirteen and thirty one. And we took her to Point
Pleasant with us and Bill state back in Point Pleasant, but she and I
went to up near Parkersburg. It's a suburb right outside of Parkersburg called Vienna,
I believe is the name of it, and there was an intersection of
thirteen and thirty one and it's just this little quiet neighborhood and we were kind
of, you know, leary about should we do a ghostbox session here.
I mean, it's the middle of the day. Do we want to sit
around a corner in front of this shotgun style house and do this? And
we did. We decided to heck with it, We're doing it. So
we did this ghostboy session and all kinds of strange things were coming up.
We did actually an esta session is how we did it. And my friend
was wearing the headphones and the blindfold, and I was asking the questions and
I was getting stuff like a key or the key. Can't remember everything,
but basically it was bones. It was the key or the keys coffin,
just like all kinds of like really strange things. And set a park and
it talked about the park, and so right down the road a little bit
from there was a park, and we went to that park and we're like,
you know, we weren't getting anything. We didn't know what the park
had to do with it. So we went back to Point Pleasant and you
know, stopped and di little sight seeing on the way. And we got
back to Point Pleasant and we found Bill and we went to two Indy Way
and we're like, oh my god, a park a park and the said
something about Native American and of course, Chief cornstocks seven remaining bones are at
two Indy Way Park with his obelisk there for him, and so we did
a ghostback session there and I'm not even sure what came from that ghost back
session, but somehow we ended up going out to the T and T thinking
we were going to do a ghost back session. At the T and T.
We were trying to contact Mothman. Moth Man didn't come through, but
we we decided not to do it at two and out at the T and
T area and we went to uh we were we wanted to go to Charleston
because of the bridge collapse down to Charleston. Sam asked us to go down
there, you know, and just look at the confluence of where the river
was where the bridge collapsed. And we went down there and we did this
ghost box session down in North Charleston and it was the shortest ghost bock session
ever and we were basically told to leave. And later on we were investigating
Jackie who told you to leave the voices on the box or living Yeah,
the ghost box told us to leave. Well, what what we asked is
should we leave because it was like a man, a lady and all this
stuff watching looking and it's like there was a man and a woman that came
out of this house and were walking around, and they were standing on the
porch staring at us, and it's like she had no way of knowing these
people were looking at it. She had a blindfold on, and she's just
saying it. And then we felt like we're being pulled out from the top
of our heads, from our crown chakra and like really super light headed.
And so we left and we went and had lunch, which we planned on
doing, and then we went back to Point Pleasant and we completely forgot about
everything else we wanted to do in Charleston. That totally wiped our mind.
Whatever it was. But what we found out later is where we were sitting
at this church parking lot, there was a grassy area and in that grassy
area, right beside the church was where a grade school was that Charles Vnson
locked the doors and burnt the school down, killing two children. It was
this first criminal act and he was like ten or twelve years old, so
I mean, it just was leading us on this really weird adventure, you
know, And it seems like that's what the Mothman reports from Chicago have been
doing, is like leading, leading us to different places and different There's such
a weird, weird, weird underlying current that has to do with the whole
thing. And it's like somehow Point Pleasant and Chicago Mothman are linked. And
I don't think that the people that are doing the reports, especially the ones
that seem like they're kind of made up, I don't think that they even
have a clue what's going on. It's like the phenomena is now toying with
everybody that's participating in it. Let me throw something out here. It was
a book called a Sorryton Mystery by Eileen Buck and it deals with Arthur Bryant
was a groundskeeper in England in an old folks home. And this is a
few days after Georgia Danski died. The famous contact he that supposedly contacted the
Venus of the as California Desert. He claimed a classic flying saucer landed.
Three individuals stepped out, supposedly Venusians. The young one called himself Yamski and
was asking for des les Well. Desmond Leslie was Georgia Dampski's co author,
so the implication was that somehow Yamsky was the reincarnation of Georgia Dampski, which
is pretty quick to do it in a couple of days and have a whatever,
a teenage Venusian or whatever. Now, the thing is that there's other
things that Bryant claimed obvious. There's a follow up kind of a papo called
sequel to start and exposes a lot of nonsense. But at the same time,
at the same time period, people are seeing strange lights in this guys,
they're seeing UFOs, voices are being imprinted on reel, the real tapes,
poltergeist phenomena. So you have this duality of total nonsense to something totally
made up. But at the same time, I don't know if it's paranormal
mimicry or whatever it is, but there's all this other bizarre stuff going on.
It seems to be something some legitimate paranormal phenomena. So Sam, does
that ring true with what you've been looking at? Sam? I can't even
scratch the surface on this because there's just so much and I hate to use
the term rabbit holes. But the three things in particular, four things that
leads you to is Native American scenario chi Chi Piqua in Illinois, of course,
in Chicago area. Robinson Robinson Woods over there. He was one of
the major, very influential in this area as far as pot of watomy.
And it's funny because one of individuals that was working with the team here when
she was watching. Oh, by the way, the Eyes of the Mothman
came out in two thousand and eleven, and that was played at the at
the at the at the event at Mothman at the State Theater. I remember
that, right, Remember that? Okay, at the State Theater. Now
that's on what fifty two or twenty five, but that's on Main Street on
the sixty two parallels a sixty two. Okay, Now that's very important.
Keep that in mind on the theater and think of Eyes of the Mothman just
came out in twenty eleven, all right, it just came out on Netflix.
So you have all these you have you have the various, you have
a you have certain subsets of events that work like a mental equation, and
then you draw a conclusion. Now you have the oxygen the sky that's automatically
put it on the internet. Everybody thinks it's it's Mothman. There's some sort
of drifted something. Then all of a sudden, you have this there's these
two girls screaming and they have two red eyes peering through the window. Now,
if you've seen the Eyes of the Mothman, the actual logo for it,
all you see is black and white in the red eyes. Then you
have, of course this other creature from eyes from Tasmania. So you put
these altar together and it comes up with something. It makes a mental equation,
and all you have to do is create an environment like this, and
other phenomena seems to fall into play. They cannot be that intelligent to place
all these things in sequence. There's more that it's much more unusual. And
so you're, yeah, you're you're you're answering in a question. You know,
basically, yes, that's the case, and point there is something here
that is so unusual. I'm trying to think where it rolls down into Humble
Park. First of all, who was who was Alexander von Humble. He
was one of the greatest, uh the greatest adventurers, botanist, et cetera.
More more things are named after him. In fact, the Humble Seals
are are in danger. Well, there's a correlation with his degree of looking
an adventure He was the most popular man at that time period. And of
course I had mentioned about Drake before, the name Drake or the correlation with
a dragon a Drake in the book by L. Frank Baum. The funny
thing is, do you remember the book Cosmos by any chance? Sure?
And do you know who wrote that? Carl Sagan was second person to write
write that book. The first person to write Cosmos was Alexander von Humbolt,
one of the most interesting people and gave so much this world as far as
science. And the funny thing is Sagan became involved with SETI through his relationship,
of course with Break And this is going to hit home with you because
all this does combined, it's all about communication. What is communication? Communication
is a transfer of information. Doesn't mean you have to know what's going on,
It just needs to be transferred. What happened was I started looking into
this and then radar telescope research, green banks nearby and all these things.
In fact, the Elk River we talked about the Elk River collapse, the
bridge on the Zumber fifteenth. Was it nineteen oh four? I think so
yes. And of course the Elk River flows into Kenawa and both of them
come to join at the point, and of course let's just stop from it
and let make sure people know that the Silver Bridge collapsed on December fifteenth and
as well as the Elk River Bridge on December fifteenth. The year is the
seem to be significant, but I mean, you've got sixty seven and four,
but truly bizarre. The two bridges kind of connected in the same waterway
collapsed on the same day of the year. Yeah. And then Jackie was
talking about two when we were in Charleston. For folks who aren't familiar with
the topography or what have you, the geography of the area Charleston is where
the Elk River and the Kinawa come together. That's where the Elk River Bridge
collapsed sixty three or four years before. The point was in Christon, and
they both both the Ohio and the Kenway they merge and at that point where,
of course, on October the thirty first, seventeen seventy, none other
than George Washington stood there and said, what a magnificent point. Are a
pleasant point? And that's where it got its name. You have two bodies
again, two bodies, and what was we have two warriors that were thrown
into the river. Never found two bodies of orders converge. In Chicago,
we have two bodies of orders converge, and they're actually shown on the flag
with the stars. So there is Native American lore. Now I mentioned Eyes
of the Mothman. When another partner of their group was watching the movie Eyes
of the Mothman, a sequence comes up, and take a look at it
when you have a chance, where they show the theater and it just so
happens pp or Chichi Pequa was born or died I believe on April to twenty
seconds, if I'm not mistaken. And on a segment of that of the
movie, the document entry, you'll see main Street and then you'll see the
sign of the theater next to it to the right, and it says on
there April twenty second Wizard of Oz, the Wizard of Oz and at that
point the visual truths of whatever they were holding out the floor right out of
the room. But that's an interesting little scenario that it is actually in the
movie. Now, is there something else communicating with us throughout this whole thing
and we're just not even doing it even remotely justice by looking at this,
But there is nonsense going on. So is it possible that even though nonsense
is going on, much like you can use put on a record player and
listen to music and it's not live music, but it creates the same effect,
does the effect follow there afterwards? In other words, does a phenomena
take place afterwards? And that was a concern that I had that even though
all this stuff was going on and they didn't seem to be legitimate, a
lot of it was just pure nonsense. And then of course there was genuine
reports of misidentifications, the largest size or the most common thing being blue errands,
tons of blue errands, great blue owls or great horned owls. We
also have long eared owls out here too, in that in Chicago, in
fact, there was an infestation of them during that period of time. So
do you have these things going on? There's tons of correlations with numbers events,
And then my mind drew me to communication itself and trying to understand why
are these names pulling together? You have Cosmos, you have Sagan, you
have Drake, and it just got to be strange. Hold on a second,
let me let me do our station identification. Here. You are listening
to the high strangeness factor. Copyrighted on the Paranormal UK Radio Network. Today,
Susie and I are speaking to Jackie, Bill and Sam about the so
called Chicago authman and all the bizarre trappings that go with it. Uh Sam
Uh. I had Andy and I had Allison jorn Lenan a few years ago,
and she did a lot of footwork checking out a dozens of these reports,
finding problems with many of them. However, I believe she said that
one or two of them seemed like they could have been legitimate. Now,
do you, in in your research, do you think that in some of
these sightings, Now this is a wide area over several years, I imagine
that they could easily. You know, I've kind of ignored the whole area
because if there is a legitimate report, it's it's it's lost the morass of
all this nonsense. But do you think that there have been some reports that
might represent a legitimate anomalist phenomenon. I think I've spoken to seven witnesses and
each of them were I think, except for one or being very genuine about
what they saw and was misidentification. Now, Ellison is a personal friend of
mine, very very good friend, and of course she worked with us.
We all work together and that's what we were trying to do, is get
everybody to work together and find out what's going on. But that didn't as
recalled, didn't work out that way. The thing is, there are certain
you could see, like there's patterns. Now we had the first three in
twenty eleven, and then you had what took place, starting with OZ again
leaving with something referencing to as Mania Australia OZ. Either way, I forgot
to tell you this. The third book see L. Frank Baum wrote after
his first book, thirteen sequels to follow that up, but I didn't mention
that thirteen sequels plus one is fourteen and all of a sudden you're in OZ.
And the third book that he wrote was the was Princess Ozma Ozma was
in was Discovered? Or they encounter Dorothy encounters Ozma, which she takes a
trip to of all places, Australia and they get lost. And it's a
that in itselfs the correlations with other things. It's too much to cover in
any twelve hour conversation. The thing with the radar, we have Drake,
and we have Drake on November excuse me, April the eighth of nineteen sixty
starting the first experiments of trying to communicate to the Cosmos. Okay, and
he did that. Of all places, Green Banks, green Bank, Virginia,
and Green Bank, Virginia, of course is next to the forested area
there. What is that forest, But that's called the Mother of Rivers where
all these rivers flow and converge and water has memory. There's very unique properties
to water, and there's something with that. Anyways, as you may recall
in nineteen or nineteen eighty nine, one of the unusual things that happened up
there at Green Banks was and this was during perfect weather. It wasn't any
storms or nothing. Late in the evening on Novemmember the fifteenth, of all
things, one of the huge radar telescopes actually collapsed and it looked like Godzilla
went there and just picked it up and ripped it all up. A gentleman
who was in the bathroom at that time got all startled. He couldn't figure
out what was going on. He comes out and he sees panels falling off
the ceiling and really wasn't able to discern what was going on out there.
He was really shooken up. But when Nis came out there and it was
NITS at that point. Prior to that, it was the National Bureau of
Standards, and it was it was a mess. They couldn't figure out what
transpired. He heard some unusual noises and almost sounded like jets were chasing something.
As you may recaller, you can find out that during that period of
time there was also a lot of UFO activity. Now, mind you,
we have the first attempt at what would be setting in the long term of
trying to communicate to the stars and also pick up signals. Now that was
nineteenth November fifteenth, same day as Roger Scarborough and the rest of them having
their experience. But this is twenty two years later. Who is to say
that there isn't a correlation with that, and maybe they got an answer to
something, and you know, it's a very freaky and I just find that
I found that all too interesting. The other thing was with Yansky, who
Carly Yanski, who actually discovered radar telescope. He was working for AT or
AT and t trying to figure out why they were getting noise. There was
three types of noise in the communication, so that was disturbing the message.
And what had happened was he discovered that he was looking at a certain area
of Sagittarius and that area he finally figured out that that was where something was
actually giving signals and those signals were from the Sagittarius area and that was a
that is a black hole. And that's what we've discovered from that. But
there's far more into this. I'm like jumping around, like very very strange,
but anyways, that's how I got into. It's all about communication on
this lower, this much higher level of freakiness, and we're not really giving
it justice at this point. But anyways, what do you say though by
no means it's just too bizarre. Well, I was just thinking in general,
So I think we might have talked a little bit last time we were
on about George Hanson and the trickster and the paranormal. But also I know
that John Keel as well as I believe it was Richard HadAM stated in a
documentary Steve that you were in Hello there, Kitty Kat, this is Maggie's
been harassing me. She was on my lap. That's why my video was
off for a minute. But they talk about how once you get close to
the phenomena, the phenomena does start toying with you, and when you're peering
into the void, the void is looking back at you. Keil talks about
how this phenomena really is a co creation between precipient and broadcaster, so to
speak. So I can see how what's happened here in the Chicago area,
you know, this is how we got Originally Jackie and I attended to move
on meeting five years ago. We met Sam and we immediately talked about,
you know, the sightings in Chicago, and he had expressed that he was
the lead investigator on that whole alleged flap. But I can see how things
could take off and really kind of become their own phenomenon. You know,
if this undercurrent that we're talking about the transposition of thirteen's thirty one's what Jackie
talked about with the ghost Box sessions taking us from location to location to location.
There was even somebody, if I remember correctly, didn't somebody didn't one
of the ghost Box sessions point us down to Alton. Yeah. When we
did the Thatcher Woods one, I had an idea of having two people on
the spirit box, So we call it the Thatcher Session, a sort of
the STU Session. And Bill, and then our friend was doing the headphones
and the blindfolds, and they were on different frequencies, and I was asking
the question and they were literally answering each other's I mean like I would ask
the question and one of them would say something, the other one would finish
the statement. It was so wild. But we were trying to find a
mini Serpuent Mount and so I was asking questions regarding that, and one of
them said, I said, who am I talking to? Who's you know,
who's the one giving me this information? This is what we want,
blah blah blah. And someone said Bonnie, and I said Bonnie, do
you have a last name? And the other person said Bland. And then
something came up talking about seventy seven and like all this other different stuff.
And so afterwards when we were investigating, there was a woman named Bonnie Bland
who was from seventy seven years old, who was from Alton, Illinois,
and she knew the Low family that had the little boy that was picked up
and carried off back in fifty four or whatever year that was, I don't
even remember. But what I thought was also funny about that one was the
family's last name was Low, just like the Low Hotel and Point Pleasant and
so there's just like all these really strange synchronicities. There's one other thing too
that I want to say, just real quickly before I don't get a chance.
Page a Wit has talked about her sighting of the moth Man for years
and years and years on all kinds of documentaries, and there's been all kinds
of like different drawings and people who tried to, you know, draw it
out for her and everything. And it wasn't until maybe five years or so
ago that she had a police artist draw her rendition of what she saw as
a child of the Point Pleasant Mothman. And that was done, and it
was painted, and it's a beautiful piece of art and it's at the Mothman
Museum. And I about died when I saw it because and I literally took
a picture of it and sent it to Sam because it looks like one of
the monkeys from the Wizard of Oz, one of the flying monkeys. It
seriously does. And it's like, never once did I ever put that together
with anything Fay ever said. So it's like somehow even I feel like Fase
been pulled into the Wizard of Oz. Scenario of all of this crazy Chicago
stuff. I wasn't aware of all the bizarre connections that whether they're coincidence or
some kind of synchronicity. But Bill brought up a good point the trickster aspect,
and without going deeply into it, Kiel experienced it with the silent contact
ease. They thought they were in contact with these other intelligences that sometimes gave
them predictions that came true and sometimes we're just messing with them. In a
book I've mentioned several times called Hungry Ghosts by Joe Fisher, is where he
was talking to supposedly dead people through these Meatilliams and he was he went to
England and Greece to try and verify the information. He found out some of
that was dead on accurate and a lot of it was nonsense. So you
get this this crazy mix of uh, some things that are legit and some
things that are not so Sam what what what does this leave us? I
mean? Uh uh, you know, Alison Jordland was viciously attacked because she
was questioning some of these sightings, which was really unfortunate, and uh you
are too, huh, well, well, you know it's it's too bad,
because if uh and and and and Susie has too, she has gone
out there and questioned some of the uh the dogma. I guess that's out
there, some of the bizarre claims and uh uh so. But but this
is just this is crazy. I did not expect this and did not make
it a little bit crazier, I think, Steve. I wasn't expecting this
conversation to go this way. But uh so, you know my story,
Steve, But to fill everyone else in a few years ago, I started
having reoccurring dreams or there were nightmares actually about my great grandmother, who I
had never met, died before I was born. At the time, I
originally thought it was, you know, my great grandmother was mad at me
about something trying to communicate. I no longer feel that way, and now
I feel like it was something trying to make me think it was my great
grandmother to get me to go on wild goose chases. Jackie, when you
were talking about your your ghost box sessions, I was like, that's exactly
you know how I felt. I was being, you know, pushed from
one location to another, and nothing was ever clear or communicated. It was
just like, you know, what the heck's going on. But through out
this I did find out that essentially my ancestors were responsible for King Philip's war
and more precisely the incident that led to what people now call the Wampum Belt
Curse, which they think is, you know, what caused the Bridgewater triangle.
But when Sam was talking, I realized there's a Wizard of Oz connection
there. The nightmare that I had, it's, you know, this woman,
older woman with two farm hands, and the woman's yelling at me,
and then the farm hands grabbed me. And I always said, it's like
atm and the two guys in the beginning of the Wizard of Oz. I
don't have a Mothman connection unless you count Steve, but I certainly have.
You know, can relate to this in a way I didn't expect to.
I imagine you don't have any ruby slippers either. Yeah, and in the
book they're actually silver. You know. The funny thing is I never read
the book, and every time the movie was on, I ignored it unless
I had to watch it fantasy. I'm more one of the I was like
the guy that watched the National Geographic shows, the nature shows, you know,
science and history are things that I absolutely love. Uphology came to me
from my own experience. It found me. I didn't find it. And
this whole, this whole journey involving this, these cases and these rabbit holes
are I just call them journeys, have brought me to understand things that I
never would have known before, meet people and loved them very much that I
never would have known or come in contact with. And each one has taught
me something. And my sister always said, and my wife, I'm like
a little computer. I have to get more information all the time, you
know, stick it in my head. But to your point, is there
something actually there? There is there is this phenomenon? Is there something that
is cryptic? Well, possibly I have friends that and I've worked on cases
that may have been cryptied, you know, things like subsquatch and whatever.
There may be things. I spoke to one gentleman who's you know. He
says that he's seeing something as big as a deer fly up in the air
on Route two ninety four when he was on IWO ninety four, and that
was considered the first sighting, and it's toired as being the first sighting.
Yet nobody spoke to him, they spoke to his ex wife or actually didn't
even speak to them. They read it. Now, keep in mind,
I have been out there. Elis has been an out there. I've spoke
to seven individuals. I received these reports originally, and by the way,
we received quite a few, and we still get things now and then.
But again, anything that falls outside what may not be euphological has to be
done outside of move on, and that is exactly how I've handled this.
We've done it in a team effort, and that's the only way it should
be approached. I don't think we should, you know, take into consideration
everything as being as it is, because there are these trickster elements, and
there is the human trickster element. Now, the other thing that came into
my mind during this period of time was AI. Is it possible that a
very unusual attempt at seeing how much information could be accepted through social media and
on the internet and controlling these elements even to such a level as low as
this. I think it's impossible, even for AI. There were four more
events, four more cases that came in, by the way, and that
twenty seventeen that we received I investigated directly. None of those individuals. By
the way, none of the reports that we received except for the first one,
and I believe no two other ones had anything legitimate as far as contact
information. They all had various patterns of fictitious of fictitious emails, phone numbers,
and fictitious names. So there was really nothing to go on. And
my assistant state director was in charge of the CMS, and I asked them,
how many times have you ever seen reports come in like this? Now,
mind you, he had seen anywhere between eight to ten thousand reports a
year overview, you know, over as far as you oversight before they go
out to the state directors and the countries. So he says, I've never
seen anything like this. We had seventy seven percent of the reports come in
pertaining to this subject that were fictitious and obviously nonsense. And over the last
four that we received, three of them came from the same IP address,
So how absurd is that? And then people come down me that you know
this is this isn't correct, You know that No, maybe somebody just used
their bandwidth or something. No, that's totally impossible, it's nonsense. And
then we also did style metrics, the study of the way people write the
use of words, grammar, et cetera. And we could find and Bill
and Jackie could agree. You know that it's consistent in many of these reports,
alter many. I know that there are some people that suggest that the
Point Pleasant Mothman or the Ohio Valley Mothman somehow migrated to Chicago. Uh.
Now, let me tell you, my mothman did not go to Chicago.
But seriously, but seriously, are there of all the reports that you've looked
at, do any of the mirror the broad spectrum of the Mothman prophecies?
Were people having outbreaks of poultrygeist phenomena after they had their sighting, where they
having going in trances or missing time? What about animal mutilations, what about
men in black visits or or you know, is uh, are there anything
that would carry over from from the the chronicles of what Keel chronicles in the
Mothman prophecies to the Chicago area. Let me answer that, Sam, That
really is not Steve. And that's one of the things that I fixated on
early on being a student really of the whole Mothman legend and the flap of
sixty six and sixty seven. I looked for that I wanted that to be
part of what was going on in Chicago. We lived sixty miles west of
Chicago. We can be there in an hour. It was when we first
heard about this, we were really excited about it. But none of the
Hi High strangeness elements have been reported at all. I think once the folks
who were really reporting on this and publishing books about this and doing what they
were doing with it got wint to the fact that the High Strangers was not
an element of the first ten years of sightings. After that, some of
the reports that came in were even more sensationalized. They talked about having a
sense of dread seeing the black winged creature with the piercing red eyes. The
reports began to me or more and more aspects of point pleasant. But I
think it had to be pointed out that that wasn't happening before. So none
of the Poultergeist activity, none of the men in Black activity, although Sam
has had a very strange men in Black thing that perhaps you could elaborate on
that a little bit. Sam, now that I'm thinking about this, that
individual that really mirrors the Barney Hill reference. That's I think in the gray
Barker book about that doctor Hopkins. I think so yeah, maybe, Okay,
let's we'll let Sam tell that part of the story, because it's his
story, not mine. There were three witnesses that contacted both myself and this
other and the key other person involved on the other side. And this gentleman
was a truck driver and he had a sighting while sitting in his truck and
the and he felt it was more like a UFO with and what he what
he had seen was that it had the reverse scalloping along what appeared to be
wings. But he thought it was mechanical, not living. So he contacted
this other individual and he sent me an email. I contacted him the next
day. We got together and it was probably a month and a half since
we had we had actually gotten together. And we got together at a and
an overpass that it was actually knocked down recently over two ninety four. I
got there earlier because I had to eat some darn thing. Boys. I
gotta feed. The boy's gotta eat. He's looking a little thin, you
know. So I went and I had a piece of pizza, sat down,
and there was this guy, this tong guy comes walking and he had
an envelope and he's looking and he looks at and he goes, are you
the doctor? No, why are you hurt or anything? No, no,
no, I'm looking for a doctor. I have a coin here that
I'm supposed to sell to him. I go, oh, really, So
he sits down. We start talking. I asked him a little bit.
It just so happens for the first year of his high school and we went
to school together at the same high school. I went to a preparatory seminary
seminary and I can't recall the guy. And then he's working at a jailhouse
as I forgot what the position it was, and I knew a lot of
people not in there but handling the place because I used to be in politics,
and it was just so weird. And we started talking about stuff and
I go, what is your background? And he says, well, I
was in the military my last I retired as a captain and I was working
at the Pentagon and I'm like, wow, this is getting interesting. Meanwhile,
I'm waiting for this guy to show up and Billy, I could use
his name. He's very he's known, and I mean for Billy to show
up, and I says, by the way. He says, by the
way, we'd like to see the coin. He takes the coin out,
and it is a seventeen I believe was seventeen eighty seven Fugio I fly,
Fugio f u gio. It was actually designed by Benjamin Franklin. And what
it has on there on one side is the sun and the sundial which has
the Nomon on there the Masonic symbol, of course prominent in the center.
And then you flip it over and look at it, and you will see
the rings, the thirteen rings, and we are one, thirteen rings,
and we are one. And then I flipped it back over again, and
he said, and he says, do you read on the bottom what it
says? That says mind your business? Now we would say mind your own
business today, but the past, during that period of time, you would
say mind your business. And he'd just smiled at me. I meanwhile,
the doctor comes in, they make their transaction. I gave him a piece
of paper. I'm freaking out because it was so weird. I fly and
then mind your own business, thirteen rings, and then all of a sudden,
Billy and his brother show up. Both these guys are very well built
and his brother looks like the illustrated man. He had so many tattoos,
but two of the tattoos stood out immediately. He had a pyramid with the
all seeing eye and a flying saucer coming out of it. So these guys
were really into all sorts of stuff, and then they were talking to me.
But he had a sight and and what's what Billy's known for is the
the fact that there was a medical condition. And here he found out that
the medical condition took place after his sighting, not beforehand, so much got
read into it, far more than than what the reality was. But the
weird part is here, I had this instance before, and if you ever
see the coin, take a peek at it, you'll know what I mean.
I had my hair standing up, and there was a guy sitting off
to the side watching us and just smiling at me. And he was dressed
up like, you know, like somebody that's definitely not not supposed to be
there, uh, and all too too sharp looking, and he just kept
smiling. And it was weird because he watched me for the whole time,
and there was another person watching me too, and I'm like, what the
hell's all this about? You know? I was very uneasy about the whole
situation, and you know, got back into the garden, made at home
and here and I still am. But there were a lot of strange occurrences
during the opine time, rippling of unusual stuff. August to fourth was the
first photograph that came in, and I think Ellison addressed that because she went
to the location, so did Jack and the person. And again this is
one of those ones of the out of the four, one of them is
a dead person that filled out a report that's very interesting, and the other
three were from the same IP, and this was one of those from the
same IP. We were taking a break and going up to up to Wisconsin
and for our anniversary, just going to spend a day up there, so
we ran it. We were at a hotel. Man was that Kruddy?
But I got a call and this guy calls me and he starts talking about
He says, you know, I'm out here and towards Vegas, and I'm
a truck driver and I'm here in Vegas and there's this Indian in the room,
and there this alien and there's like, what's this guy even talking about?
And when I look at the name, I actually knew who the person
was, and I scared him by telling him everything about him. Now,
by the way, his father worked for Air America. Does that sound familiar?
So I could get an idea of where this guy was coming from.
But anyways, the first photo comes in, and of course that was an
airplane. It wasn't anything more than that. What hell are we talking about?
I got off talking about a bunch of stuff. Well, ladies and
gentlemen, let's try and make sense of something that makes no sense. We
have a situation where, uh, it's a parent that many of these original
sightings and maybe some of the later ones were bogus. There's a lot of
nonsense. However, there does seem to be a lot of weird synchronicities.
Now I'm willing to believe that. You know, we can go down a
road where we we we see coincidences and put things together, but it is
simply coincidence. So some of this could just be that. But knowing as
I know that people like like I gave the sorry to mystery example where people
create a hoax and there seems like something mushrooms around them that and I don't
know why, So is that what's going on? Here, did this start
out as something bogus and then perhaps something like something killian has grown from this?
Uh the uh, the trickster, the the paranormal mimicry, that sort
of thing. So what what do you think, Susie? Yeah, I'm
not I went into this with a preconceived notion of what happened, and now
I'm just not sure, you know, because I had, like a much
like you, I'd just kind of, you know, written it off saying,
you know, maybe there is a couple that were legitimate. Now I'm
not sure, but it does kind of seem more like, you know,
a collective unconscious thing. And there definitely is more to it than I originally
thought for sure, to say the least. Yeah, I think some of
these may have there may be something there, but that again, it can't
be validated. The other thing is, in those instances where we have genuine
reports, we can usually identify what it is. I should say almost nine
times out of ten. It's like with you reports, and nine times out
of time you can pretty much figure out what it is. And it's those
that residual factor that there are some out there that seem really peculiar and by
people of pretty good stature even in this scenario, that there may be something
really worthwhile there. I don't know. I can't write everything off. But
again, does the phenomena spring or grow from an agitation? Even if it's
done so in other words, you kick it around a little bit and fake
it, it'll it'll still give you the same effect. I remember John Keel
saying that he would entertain notions, theories, so even wild theories about what
this was, and then he would start receiving reports from people all over the
country supporting that belief system, like the reflective factor. Yes, very strange.
Now, Sam, I got to ask you here, this is a
little bit off subject, but I got to ask you about Tinley Park.
One of my favorite episodes of UFO Hunters were these giant triangles went over that
part of Illinois. What was that like? That investigation? Well, we
got the twenty year anniversary coming up August twenty first. It was a fantastic
investigation because, first of all, for the first time, I had volumes
of video evidence to take a peek at, and we had literally hundreds of
witnesses. We have different vantage points. We have things here that you don't
get. That's why I like to work on math sightings. This I thought
was going to be something like a math sighting, but it's different now even
we draw the correlations between something like that Tinley Park. We had, you
know, these unusual lights appearing in the sky. No air traffic. Mind
you now that you know what Chicago's like. No air traffic on August twenty
first, which was a beautiful day. It was the Aaron Water Show was
going on. It was the last day. There were literally over two million
people downtown and they were coming back home. The sighting started about say ten
o'clock in the afternoon or in the evening, and what they had seen were
these three illuminations in the sky, very unusual red, and if it got
closer you could see it. It isn'tconsistent of red. It's a full myriad
of colors, but they're moving around so quick. But it appears there were
other substructures or superstructures on this thing, and you we wouldn't be able to
discern it unless it was close enough or you were far enough away and you
had the safer instance, the light from the city shining up and you could
see the edge. No air traffic for two hours. The object came in.
Another one came in afterwards. It was seen in multiple countries. It
was filmed also down it. His video down in Australia was Melbourne. Very
good case and very well investigated. There were two of them down there.
But this isn't the only instance that we had things happen in Tinley Park.
We had it again, of course on Halloween, same scenario, except we
had more objects. We had a horseshoe shaped object with a boom and around
around I don't even know what you'd call it object on top of it.
Then we had the orange orbs, which my wife and I had actually seen,
and these as the orange orb picture at arm's length, something the size
of maybe as big as a quarter to a half a dollar, Julie says,
at least half a dollar sitting in the sky. We had thirteen mile
in our winds headed from the north and oozing from the bottom, or smaller
versions of these the same coloration orbs, smaller ones coming out. And when
it came in it looked like an explosion of static. There was all these
static charges, these bright flashes all over and it sat in the sky.
It's sat in the sky perfectly still, total as if you were to paint
it there and a thirteen mile in our wind, and then it moved across,
and when it moved across, it changed color through the whole spectrum of
the rainbow, and we watched it disappear over to the south southwest and that
actually was west southwest. And my eyes didn't blink during that whole period because
I wanted to see everything. I called the police department and I told him,
you know, I asked him if any reports came in, and they
laughed. The same guy called me back just before twelve o'clock and said,
mister Moronto, what you saw was children with balloons. And the way he
said it, oh, oh, Steve, the way he said, I
wish I had recorded. He gets close to fun and goes, what you
saw was children with balloons and I'm like, who told you to tell me
that? And he goes and he gets real close to the fun and goes,
I can't tell you. My neighbor was a volunteer for the police department
in Orland and he said that that night there was a lot of strange things
happening. Individuals coming in removing records and they didn't they weren't from any known
that way agency, and they shouldn't have done anything like that, but they
did. That's what I was going to ask. Was there any official response?
Well, I guess that was it. I cover up. Yeah,
And the same thing with the mass sided down the twenty eighth, They had
no explanation. And then on the thirty first, I filed a FOYA for
radar data, and I'm trying to stay on top of it, calling and
calling, called down to Area five, call down to Dallas, and the
girl down in Dellas said, Sam, you know, darn well, if
it was a UFO and it was recorded on there, we got anything,
You're not going to get it. Then I called back up here and they
said, well, it just so happens your time ran out, and it
just so happens the person was supposed to be working on it as on maternity
leave. And I'm like, oh great. You know, but the old
hair case, at least we did get some data on that, and that
that was a very very good case. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, I
like to wrap up the show, but let's let's everybody chime in with some
words of wisdom. Something that will live in infamy, something that people will
quote in the future. So, Jackie, would you start by saying something
very profound, What do you think about this gag? How does this leave
you dumbfounded? That? But it also kind of it makes me excited because
I get drawn in so easily. I just wish I had more time in
my life to really do some really deep dig in because I find it all
to be very, very fascinating. And the more I learn about things,
the more I investigate things, the more I realize I don't know anything and
that nothing can be discluded from any of it because it all somehow links.
When Samson's seventy seven percent, it's like, seventy seven is another one of
those numbers that keeps popping up in this in seventy seven percent of the reports,
you know, it's like seventy seven percent of the reporting. It's like,
you know, So, I mean, it leaves me very fascinated,
Susie, mine is more of a question than a profound statement. But we've
you know, spoken to other people who have found weird coincidences with the Wizard
of Oz specifically, and I would just like to know what is it about
the Wizard of Oz, Well, the Wizard of oz has evaluated of some
how many thousands I've got how many thousands of top movies. Is the number
one influential movie in the world of all times. It is number one influential
and it also has been taken a seat it has. It has formulated an
image of fantasy, of illusion, of unusual uh interactions with creatures that are
not in this realm. You're taken to another realm of reality and be it
consciousness or literally another realm of reality, I don't know. The thing is,
it hits home on many basis, especially within the intelligence community big time.
So in that in that realm, it has other connotations. But you
could get an idea where that goes to that's that's ours. So it has
a lot to do with illusions, manufacturing things, creating something that becomes a
key lessed phenomena, wouldn't you say, Bill, Oh yeah, yeah,
absolutely. And if I could steve my thought would be how ten twelve years
ago, when I was really digging into my research Mothman, John Keel all
these different topics that are related to that. I was kind of the right
brained, kind of woo woo guy who was really into all the weirdness and
Jackie was working as a postmaster, which requires a lot of analytical skill,
and somewhere in our relationship and the way that we go about collecting information now,
I've become the more analytical one with processes of what we do for our
research, and she, because of her experiences and just because of who she
is, more in the right brain space, more the relational side, And
ultimately I think that what we like to do is to try to help people
all in all in really understanding what they've been through, to identify with maybe
some of the challenges, and if I could use the word trauma and to
use that trauma really as a springboard to get to different places in life that
they never even knew where possible in the past. So this whole Chicago thing
here, I mean, it brought Jackie and Sam and I together, and
it got the five of us talking about this here, and we never would
have known each other without it. So regardless of whether it started as a
genuine research project or turned into something that was not legitimate at all, whatever
the case is, there's a strange undercurrent. We've connected some dots and there's
some really fascinating stuff going on. But ultimately For me, it's the human
stories that are the most interesting. And how do you reach those people,
how do you help those people, how do you help them develop? And
I'd like to add something that it's going to anger some people out there if
they happened to listen to this. Alison Jornlyn contacted me prior to a Moth
Band festival and she wanted to know if she could speak, and everything was
filled up. So I talked to Jeff Wonsley and he said, well,
she can speak at three on Sunday. You know, it'd be the big
time, the last one, and so I told her and she said that
would be fine, and it was great because while a lot of people go
home on Sunday, she had a great crowd there in the theater. And
of course Alison always does a phenomenal job. So I just want some people
out there to know that I was the conduit they got Alison Jornline to speak
at the Mothband Festival And Sam, is there anything you'd like to say to
kind of wind things up. I'll tell you the experience. It's so big,
there's so like I said, we're not even scratching the surface on it,
and there's so much more that has to do with communication, and Bill
really nailed it, and Jackie, there's something an undercurrent here that we can't
ignore, and I think it brings us all together instead of looking at our
differences and fighting and arguing. I'll tell you what I would have never met.
Allison and Scott and Mike, her brother, and all these guys are
my friends, and uh, jack and I can just give you a hold.
Even the people that caused issues, I find I find merit to and
and I respect regardless and love them regardless. That's just the way I am.
All I could say is that the experience is beautiful. I've learned so
much about people that are just ignored today in history, and I see a
common thread through all this, and it has to do with adventure and exploration
and and enjoying and celebrating our differences, but more so the difference of this
world. Thank God, it's multiple and so strange. What a boring place
would be without it? Well, I don't think any of us are bored
with the things that we follow. Okay, it's Sam. How can how
can people contact you? Where? Where can people find you? Well?
As a general rule, you got to call you got to do me and
give me an email at moufon sam one, moufon sam one number one at
gmail dot com. And uh, anything pertaining to other than more so than
nuts and bolt scenario. By the way, I'm pretty rigid and dogged in
my research. If as as the Bill and jack you know, so they
get into a into this mode of consideration. Took a lot of work,
but when it hits you in the face, it's there. And but in
the same token, I do prefer things being more scientific, and I'd say
what happens is we have other elements of the are what they refer to as
paranormal. All it is is just not normal but not understood. And like
Jackie was stating, you know, and we need to pay attention to these
things. There's something else here and I think it's it's worthy of further investigation.
Bill and Jackie. You'll want people to know where they can contact you
if they have something to contribute to your new book. Our email address is
PRP connect at outlook dot com. Or they can go to our website which
is PRP connect dot org and at the bottom there's a contact button and that'll
send them the email. Also excellent and Susie. Maybe we should briefly mentioned
the Paranormal book Club that you started with Andy Mercy as co hosts absolutely and
first guest happened to be Bill. It's right, yep. So you can
fight us there on YouTube on Paranoral book Club, and there's also a Facebook
group Paranoral book Club. Our first book was The Mothband Prophecies by John Keel
and they Kate dragged me kicking and screaming to do that book. You know.
Our next book is we're working on right now is The Passport to We'll
Go in Here by Jacques Bullet. Okay, well, ladies and gentlemen,
I think I'm going to do our clothes out and listen. This has been
a really fantastic couple hours. And like Susie, I was ready to go
down a different path and Sam, you really messed me up. Well.
Thanks, thank you again, everyone, thanks for having us. Thank The
High Strangest Factor was created by Steve Ward and Andy Mercer and is copyrighted on
the Paranormal UK Radio network. I want to thank our fearless leader is Iry
Nollen, block Mark Johnson and Andy Mercer. Andy also as producer and composer
of the end theme for the show, Brian Zeller for the opening theme.
I can also be heard on Mac Maloney's Military X Files as a correspondent weekly
and if you listen to all the shows from time to time, you will
also hear Susie and Andy on Mac show. And I am Steve Ward,
your humble host here on the High Strangious Factor, a displaced Michigander deep in
the Ohio Valley, inches from downtown Point Pleasant, living on the same road,
the one, the True, the authentic, genuine moth band once chased
automobiles in the mid sixties. Thank you all for listening, Andy, Susie
and I will see you all again in a fortnight. Take care, s