WEBVTT 1 00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:24.000 You're listening to the Getting Salty Experienced podcast. All right, Matthew D. 2 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:30.879 Benedetto and a world You go. Look who's sitting it tonight. Ah yes, 3 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:34.399 ah, yes, good to see Mike. Yes, Mike for the 4 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:37.280 second time. It's good to see you. How are you. I'm well, 5 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:41.560 thank you well, doing well, feeling sight. He's out in Iowa. 6 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:44.359 Whatever he's doing out there, you know, farming, killing things. 7 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:47.280 I don't know what he's doing. It's up for usual hunting with bow and 8 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:50.520 arrows. He's a bow and arrow guy. But I don't think he's uh. 9 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.880 I don't think he's hunt now. Maybe he's dus a crop sharing or 10 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:57.479 something. I don't know what he's buying a farm. Yeah, but you 11 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:02.439 know, I missed him so much I figured play something here because I do 12 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:04.719 miss him. You know, get old, he's not sitting in there. 13 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:07.719 I get over the clapped mic. You roll out so I can feel like 14 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.000 my buddy's still here. I'll put him in my shoulder too. We haven't 15 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:14.439 played this in a while, so this is a little blast in the past. 16 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:19.640 Enjoy everybody. I'll leave him right here. Here we go. If 17 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:27.680 you follow the smoke from a sistem to polls one or three where they're fine. 18 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:37.879 It's a key. When you see him, you must sing. When 19 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:42.200 you bust through the door from some eighty year old broad, that's for a 20 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:51.879 frando. When you pee on Coob's hood and you're just misunderstood, that's for 21 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:59.560 a frando. Where have you skip on the I as the cheap bass to 22 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:08.960 live, that's Rofrando. When you yell at the chief Benghett lifted so brief, 23 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:17.280 that's rofrando. Man, you're prated by Karen in a haul that's so 24 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:25.919 barren, that's Rofrando. When you take your big bow and shoot in a 25 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:47.439 sindo, that's rofrando. And remember also no subseller a boy? Do I 26 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:53.120 miss him? I miss him? C Let me telling you guys. If 27 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:58.319 you fuckers don't learn anything tonight. We got four chiefs on with total of 28 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:02.360 one hundred and fifty three years of fire service. So what are you offices 29 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:07.400 out there? Pull your chairs up, listen close to any young guys with 30 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:13.000 any aspirations of studying. Listen close, get a notebook, jot some ship 31 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:16.800 down and learn something from crying out loud. Even if you're a civilians. 32 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:20.280 It's good to pay attention. Like myself. It's good to pay attention. 33 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:23.039 And I pick up on these things because, hey, you might find yourself 34 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:24.719 in an emergency before the fire department gets there. You'll know what to do 35 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:28.000 and it kind of makes the guy's job easier when they get there. So 36 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:32.439 civilians too, pay attention, Listen up and pay attention. Right mouth closed 37 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:37.199 is open exactly. But let's play some We gotta make some suckles here. 38 00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:39.280 We gotta make some money here before we bring in out guests. 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You can even that could use that, you know. 58 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.199 Yeah, there you go, shout out Franklin Sally. Well from that, 59 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:02.600 I guess we'll go into the next one, which is our friends over at 60 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:08.800 Armor Tuff. Armor Tough interlocking floor tiles are the best choice to replace new 61 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:15.000 or aging, stained or cracked concrete or epoxy floors. Here's why. Armor 62 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:19.079 Tough tiles come with a lifetime warranty and are usually installed in one or two 63 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:25.199 days, depending on the size of your station with virtually no disruption in daily 64 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:30.399 operation. Armor Tough interlocking tiles are guaranteed from chipping, cracking, peeling, 65 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:36.040 breaking, or staining once installed. 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Drop a halligan on an armor tough floor and 75 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:27.319 you won't see any damage. Don't try this with concrete or epoxy. Join 76 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:31.959 the hundreds of career and volunteer fire departments nationwide who have chosen an armor Tough 77 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:39.199 interlocking tile floor. Armor Tough interlocking tiles are half the price of epoxy and 78 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:44.240 will last a lifetime without issue. Again. Call Vince today for a no 79 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:50.800 obligation quote at nine oh eight nine one seven seven six nine seven. We 80 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:55.319 love Vince. We do great guy, we do excellent. Let's bring him 81 00:06:55.319 --> 00:06:57.160 in at one at a time, bro, Like I said, one hundred 82 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:02.040 and fifty three years of fire experience, We'll bring the guy. You know, 83 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.360 I like to break his balls, but I couldn't be proud of this 84 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:11.240 guy. Is the hardest working guy I've ever seen. It's my brother, 85 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:14.439 it's the guy. It's the Chief, It's Chief Steve. Bring him on 86 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:23.480 in here there he is evening. He gets a little cloth hell for those 87 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:25.319 of you who have ever seen it. Though, we've gotta do it, 88 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:29.319 uncle rerun of one of the Chief Steve songs, because he loves it so 89 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:31.839 much. Oh I love him. I forgot about this. Well, here 90 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:36.920 we go. I'm Chief Steve back with another jam. I got a new 91 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:42.120 ankle, so you could say, hot, damn my job, baby over. 92 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:46.720 I put it in forty plus. Now I think I'll go and drive 93 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.399 a yellow BLUs. Not just any bus, but a special one. Indeed, 94 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:56.519 my little brother Kevin, he has special needs. I'll drive that yellow 95 00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:01.519 bus and buckfle in his ass and tightened him his helmet as he licks the 96 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:07.079 freaking glass. When I'm gone, don't be overtime looters. I'll hunt you 97 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.600 all down. I'm my fucking scooter. You have not seen the last of 98 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.600 me. Be sure I'll be hanging with these diickheads on the consulting tour because 99 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:28.160 I'm Chief Steve. Never gets old, yeah, never gets old, man. 100 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:30.600 We got a load of the other ones yet, I haven't seen the 101 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.080 other ones in a while. But then never gets old for me, never 102 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:35.879 gets all. Yeah, you know what. I just love to entertaining you. 103 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:37.639 What can I say? Thanks so much? And now you do? 104 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:41.440 Now you do? Chief? He can't stop laughing, he can't even talk. 105 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:46.720 You want me to be all right, Let's go to Chief Tony, 106 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:54.679 I mean Tom Sarah Grusa from San Francisco, the fall left, Chief top 107 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:58.360 Sara Grusa forty three years of five duty, by the way, and there 108 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:05.200 is you said, the far left. You're referring to the West coast. 109 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.159 You're no, no, no, no, no not. You want me 110 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:11.080 far from it? Chief Chie's got a shirt on. Why do you show 111 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:13.840 that shirt today? Yet? Chief Steve what do you got coming? You 112 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:22.919 identify as a non bidenary very my pronouns. Let's go all right, this 113 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.639 is just for you then you're ready. Come on, man, come on 114 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:33.360 man. That goes hand in hand with this one. You dick all right? 115 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.919 When I called this next guy, he's got thirty nine years on the 116 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:41.279 job. Bro, He's like, you don't want to see Chief Crooker anymore? 117 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:43.240 I said, you can never get enough of Mitch Crooker, Bro, 118 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.240 besides the fact that I think he's shorted me. That's why I want to 119 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:50.440 have money show. Let's bring him in here. There he is Mitch Crooker 120 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:56.240 from Chicago. Here. Yes, thanks for coming background, che Hello, 121 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:01.799 hello, thanks for having like like punishment. Your third trip around excellent? 122 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:07.639 Yeah, it is three a track for you hockey guys. All right, 123 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:11.840 one more guy. You know him? You love him? I sometimes love 124 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:18.759 nihilism. It's Chief Gonzo coming in hot. There he is coming in shit 125 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.919 hot. What do you what is that? Yeah? I didn't know. 126 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.200 Hold on, what do you tell me you're gonna do that? I would 127 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:35.799 just give you a little surprise, but put it on. Let us not 128 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:41.440 velvet. It's a little hard with all right round by Gonzo thanks for stopping 129 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:45.399 by, appreciate it. Before we get to the questions. Like I said, 130 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:48.559 listen up, some good questions coming away. We need to get patriotic, 131 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:52.039 bro, So Mike, please, if you would sure, here we 132 00:10:52.080 --> 00:11:01.720 go. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and 133 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:09.799 to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible 134 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:26.159 with liberty and justice for all beautiful. See you are shorter than me. 135 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:28.519 I knew it. I just standing up, bro, Thank you, So 136 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.720 I am wet. You want a box? Thank you? We can go 137 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.360 that kind of a box now, you know what. Sitting on a pillow. 138 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:43.279 Ah, I'm sitting not on them, but they're behind me for back 139 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:46.080 support. I got to him, so I'm not the only one. Hey, 140 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:50.120 min alone raised up a couple of inches that involved here at all. 141 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.600 All right, who's got the questions? Who's gonna shoot the first question? 142 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:56.759 Mike? You got him? Yeah? They actually right here in the banner. 143 00:11:56.840 --> 00:11:58.879 Let me just quit make quick mention. I'm not going to display the 144 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:01.799 aners because I don't want to lose what's in front of you. But guys, 145 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:03.639 you know the drill by. Now, if you have a question, 146 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:05.159 We're gonna try and stick to our outline tonight, but if it's relevant to 147 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.960 what we're talking about, throw it in the super chat and at the right 148 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:11.240 time. Might not be right away, but at the right time I'll make 149 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:13.360 sure to put it up side the chiefs see it. But for now, 150 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:16.320 we're gonna go to our first question, which is to follow it. What 151 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:20.240 is your command philosophy on handling a may day? Do you delegate that responsibility, 152 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:24.399 continue to run the fire or handle the may day? And we'll start 153 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:31.440 with Chief Croker in the bottom left. Okay, well, what's my philosophy 154 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:37.519 and handling a may day? There is no greater dire sense of urgency on 155 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:43.399 a fire ground than to deal with a may day. That is the greatest 156 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:50.279 emergency that somebody in command is going to face. If I am the only 157 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:56.200 chief officer on the scene of that incident, my fire incident now becomes a 158 00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:01.080 two part problem because I'm dealing with the fire must be dealt with, it 159 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:03.960 doesn't wait for us, and I also must deal with the may day, 160 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:09.120 So I'm going to have to deal with both simultaneously. However, if that 161 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:16.360 rapid intervention response has arrived and is in place, the actual may day scenario 162 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:22.559 is going to become the responsibility of my rapid intervention chief and my rapid intervention 163 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.799 truck. They're going to deal with the may day. Everybody else on the 164 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:31.159 incident Commander's orders are going to switch over to another frequency, and the incident 165 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:35.039 commander is going to run the fire while the rapid intervention chief runs the may 166 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:43.879 day. So that may day scenario is technically delegated to that rapid intervention chief 167 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:50.799 once he arrives and is in place and conducted his three sixty of the incident 168 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.600 prior to the arrival of that. If I'm the still alarm chief as we 169 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:58.200 call in the City of Chicago and I'm the only one there, I'm going 170 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:03.559 to be dealing with that may day myself, both aspects of it, the 171 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:09.240 fire and the may day. And it's extremely important for whoever is in charge 172 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:16.480 of this incident and running this may day to reel everybody in get this situation 173 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.679 as under control as you possibly can. It's a situation where it's going to 174 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:26.000 be more chaos and radio traffic than you can possibly imagine, and you have 175 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:30.320 to reel all that, and you have to do it in a confident cool, 176 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:35.159 common collective way to gain the support and the confidence of everybody involved, 177 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:41.639 especially the individual who is the subject of that may day. So I mean 178 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:45.960 that's kind of how we handle it in the city of Chicago. But until 179 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:50.000 that help arrives, you're technically running the fire and the may day aspect of 180 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:56.039 the incident excellently. Well, right, Chief Tom Well, I concur with 181 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:00.799 everything you said. It really depends on where we we are in the stage 182 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.919 of the incident, the amount of the resources that we have on scene. 183 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:07.919 But I want to just take a step back and remind specifically the firefighters and 184 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:13.279 the company officers how important it is for them to be able to when declaring 185 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:20.519 a madea to give us that information. Too often we hear firefighters and we're 186 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.679 not getting the information because they're on air and they haven't practiced being able to 187 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:31.080 deliver their location, the unit, their name, their air that they have 188 00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:35.759 available, and that any resources that they might need. But exactly as you 189 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.840 said, Chief, we will if I have a chief officer that's available and 190 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:43.519 a rick engine that's on scene, I will delegate the responsibility to them, 191 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.200 and reminding everybody else on the fireground that important radio traffic is what I'm looking 192 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:52.879 for. We need to be able to handle things at the appropriate level the 193 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:56.639 leader's intent. When we know that there's an emergency, traffic or may day 194 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:00.519 that's going on, we don't need to be talking on the radio about everything 195 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.159 that's going on. It is up to us in our policy. As you 196 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:07.919 said, per my direction, the answer the commander will switch everybody to another 197 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:11.320 channel. There we have an actual RIC operation that's in place, so I 198 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:18.559 have to different with the fire attack or the fire component and the RIC operations 199 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:26.519 chiefs. Steve, Uh, Well, okay, I don't know exactly, 200 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:32.440 um I say, how these other departments work, or exactly what rank you 201 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:36.600 guys are, whether you're battalion chiefs or above. But when I if I'm 202 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:40.559 at the operation I already had, there's other chiefs there. I would never 203 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:45.639 be there without at least two other battalion chiefs on scene already before I get 204 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:51.600 there. So normally, uh, I would I would assign one of those 205 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.200 chiefs to t handle it, and I would use the what we have we 206 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:59.879 call the fast unit, who's already on scene also, and then I would 207 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:06.960 you know, we'd transmit the signal ten sixty six and then get additional units 208 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.440 to replace that fast unit and then have you know, to have the fast 209 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.519 unit that was on scene team up with the battalion chief that's already on scene. 210 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:18.400 I would switch whatever his duties he's he's doing at the time to become 211 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:23.480 the team leader for the may day. All right, God's got anything to 212 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.400 add to that, kid? Yeah? The uh. This this concept is 213 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:33.279 obviously has different dynamics depending on where you are in the country. For us, 214 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.200 and we're a smaller agency, you know, we're only going to have 215 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.519 a couple of companies on scene, so as being an incident commander on a 216 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.359 few of them. If a may day is transmitted for us, it may 217 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.799 fall solely on me to try to run the entire operation unless I have an 218 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.039 extra chief there. We we run two duty chiefs on that are on twenty 219 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:53.920 four hours. And if this during the week you have sorry, I heard 220 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:57.359 somebody's ring. If if we're lucky enough to get an extra chief or something 221 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.240 like that, they might be able to help us with that. But as 222 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:06.119 far as it may day does get transmitted, we we'll actually separate the channels. 223 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:08.400 We'll put the may day on this will stay on the main channel and 224 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.599 everything else, the entire operation will get moved to another tach channel so we 225 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.240 can solely concentrate and have separate channels to concentrate on that may day. But 226 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:18.319 just to add to it again, it's really depends on the resources you have 227 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:23.000 on seeing you have three other chiefs here that have heavy resources, and it 228 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:29.000 really plays effective for those small departments that may have the resources to delegate what 229 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:30.839 and or have somebody else handle the may day. As from the chief of 230 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:36.880 perspective one, All right, before we get to the second question, one 231 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:38.720 thing I did want to add, and if this question was answered previously, 232 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:44.640 I apologize if it sounds redundant in nature, but is we talk about preparedness 233 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:48.440 in the fire service and really emergency response as a whole. Nerves get in 234 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.640 the way. People get excitable, especially in the situations where your colleague is 235 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.359 in dire peril and it's easy to start stepping on each other on the radio. 236 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.559 As you guys just alluded to. Is there training like there are for 237 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:00.519 other jows in advance to where we have a member down. Here's how you 238 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:03.640 control yourself. Here's why we talk to one another on the radio. Here's 239 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.519 how we make sure that we don't make the situation worse by getting too excitable 240 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.319 and stepping all over each other when that member is trying to clearly transmit their 241 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:17.920 meeting. Well for starters, I mean there's a big long order and a 242 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:22.200 big long standing operating procedure where I came from and when I earlier explain things, 243 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:26.400 I wanted to keep it brief, give you some of the nuts and 244 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:32.480 bolts of it. But yes, absolutely, it is right at the top 245 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:37.279 of the list in the agenda. Everybody has to reel theirself in and have 246 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:44.400 especially what's called a radio discipline. Everybody and their brother wants to get on 247 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:48.079 and has to say something and wants to be part of this, and it 248 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:52.599 just it can't happen. You have to reel yourself in that incident. Commander. 249 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:56.119 I mean, I've been involved in may days and the first thing and 250 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:02.720 I said, is I ordered radio silence, okay. And when I order 251 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:06.880 radio silence, I get a grip on the incident. I find out who's 252 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:10.920 got the problem, who's got the may day? As was mentioned, who 253 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:15.279 has the may day? What company are on where you located to the best 254 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:19.480 your knowledge, and what is the problem. I've identified four big things there 255 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:25.240 who are looking for where they might be at. I've established communication and I 256 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:30.920 know what the problem is in a cool, concise manner. You gotta speak 257 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.720 with confidence, and you gotta reel this guy in and you got real people 258 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.960 in to understand that the incident command or the guy who's running this incident, 259 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:44.119 if he's not cool, common, collective, what kind of confidence does that 260 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:48.680 lead everybody else into, Especially if you're the guy who has the problem established 261 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:56.200 that contact, they still sound your past alarm, conserve your error. We're 262 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:00.839 coming, We're gonna get you. If you're lost, you know, try 263 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.559 to find a wall, search the wall right or left, what's on a 264 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:10.559 wall at door window, which might lead you out. But again, real 265 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:18.359 everybody in get radio discipline and gain instill the confidence and be cool, calm 266 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:21.960 and collective in your demeter, in your order and direction. And that's going 267 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:27.160 to help that individual involved in at may day immensely calm is definitely contagious. 268 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:32.279 And again I apologize with the question was we done? That's a very good 269 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.960 point because if you remain calm, the person you can do communicating with will 270 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:37.559 probably remain calm. If you're excited, we all know it. If because 271 00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:41.799 somebody gets excited, it just amplifies and amplifies and it gets work. So 272 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.079 somebody's got to maintain a level head, right the guy running the incidents out 273 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:48.240 of his mind? Why does it make you feel? Keep Steve? What 274 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:51.559 is the I know? The what do the backup show? If I have? 275 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:56.279 What does that? I forget if they hit the I believe if they 276 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.480 hit the pass alarm? Right, what's the thing that the backup aid honors? 277 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:07.039 The SIMS unit you have if you guys have do you have scot packs 278 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:08.480 and if they forget you have Scotts? Right, yeah, we have Scotts. 279 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:17.880 But we're talking about the from the handy talking on the radio. I 280 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:19.400 can't remember the name of it now. Yeah, yeah, now that you 281 00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:23.119 said, I can't the Yeah, it'll come to you later you're watching. 282 00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:30.720 Yeah, I know, but this is hit the pass along. You want 283 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.160 to hit the you know on the handy talking, you want to you want 284 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:37.759 to hit the may day signal, which we call attention button. And then 285 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:41.119 and then you could see what member that is and what position he has. 286 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:45.400 Correct Right after I was gone, Yeah, we have a it's a Scott 287 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.799 Sims unit that tracks air pressure when they get to a certain point. I 288 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.480 can withdraw them from the scene if I want to and monitor the rap pressure 289 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:53.720 and things like that. And then when the pass the ice get activated, 290 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:56.799 it a senseil for alarm with the truck. So maybe similar to what you're 291 00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.839 talking about. I just don't Maybe you guys pull something, but I was. 292 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.440 I can't remember the helly cool now. But at least if you know 293 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:03.720 what member it is, you know what company it is, you can find 294 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:07.839 out to the first, second or third year an approximate of where they are 295 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.559 right the four bobs, the five floor. And I don't know, and 296 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:14.279 I don't know, you know, because it's been it's been two and a 297 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.559 half years since I worked. I don't know exactly what they're using now, 298 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.079 if they've gone beyond what what they were using when I left, you know, 299 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.880 because they're constantly working on on different things and um, you know, 300 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:32.319 when when you're not in the job. I I don't know what you know, 301 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:37.920 what they've gone beyond? Um now, So I can't tell you exactly 302 00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:40.960 what they're you know, up to date, what they're what they're using. 303 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:44.319 But I know what you're talking about. I can't think of a damn word. 304 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:52.960 Uh, you know matter a matter of fact, Chief Norman said, 305 00:23:52.279 --> 00:24:04.759 uh F false e A s ef it is, yeah. But Chief all 306 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:10.319 right, truth be tall. Chief Leave probably with these questions, I don't 307 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:11.640 want to sound like I was so smart, Chief Leap having some of these 308 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:18.000 questions. I'm not telling question. That's the same question, right, there's 309 00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:21.519 still is the same one. Questions ahead, Mike, And by the way, 310 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:23.480 Chief Leap, see you soon anyway. On to the second question. 311 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:27.559 On that note, as a chief officer, do you commonly participate in drills 312 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:37.559 with your companies under your command? Chief Tony Tom Sawyer Joson, Uh. 313 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:41.559 Absolutely. I think it's one of the most important things that chief officers can 314 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:47.319 do to stay connected to the troops, make sure people are staying in their 315 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:52.839 lane. I use it as an opportunity as as an assistant chief to mentor 316 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:56.559 my battalion chiefs that maybe Kentucky a battalion drill, just to stand in the 317 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.519 background and pick up on tidbits of information of it I can pass on. 318 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:06.960 I think it's super important for the troops to see you there, to be 319 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.599 contributing and providing some you know, some of the experiences that maybe things that 320 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.240 you've learned in the past, and the answer the question that we get quite 321 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:19.880 often is the why we do things a certain way. We in a in 322 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:25.759 a department that is very traditional, has have done things the same way for 323 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:30.519 many years, but the why part of it has faded over time. And 324 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:33.880 I tried to pay attention to that and pass that on and so during drills 325 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:40.240 instead of just going through the motions for the companies and especially for the battime 326 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:44.240 chiefs, I think it's one of the most important aspects of the job as 327 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:49.319 a supervisor is to be present and to watch and observe their training, Right, 328 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:55.480 Steve, I agree totally with what Chief thomp said. And also one 329 00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:59.559 of the things is like after an operation, you know, you want a 330 00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.960 critique it a little bit, you know, and uh and you know, 331 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:06.759 especially if especially if you see a few things that you know that you think 332 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:10.160 need to be critiqued, and uh, but you want to do it in 333 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.519 the you know, the way they they tell you, you know, start 334 00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:17.599 off by being positive, highlight the things that you know that you you know 335 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:22.119 that you were happy with, and then kind of you know, kind of 336 00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:26.240 meander a little bit into a few things that that you know, you know, 337 00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.640 I possibly ask somebody to explain something that you know that you didn't think 338 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:33.240 was, you know, like why did you take this action or why did 339 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.200 you do this? And and you know, and uh possibly give some alternate 340 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.720 uh you know things of you know maybe well maybe you could have done this 341 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:44.200 or maybe you know, but like I said, when you're doing it, 342 00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:48.160 you have to do it in a in a way that's not going to get 343 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.559 anyone's back up. You know. UM. One of the things that I 344 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.319 used to do, uh, I don't know, like I say, different 345 00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:59.680 departments at different things, but we have um annual inspection every year in uh 346 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:03.079 you know, once a year we go to every house and we do an 347 00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:07.599 annual inspection. And I would always come when I did the annual inspection, 348 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.119 and while I was inspecting the house, I would give the guys in the 349 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:15.880 truck one sheet of like a like a test and the guys in the engine, 350 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.880 and then once I was done with the house, we would go in 351 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.200 the back and we would talk them over and I can say basics of uh, 352 00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:25.240 you know, what you should in an engine, basics from a truck, 353 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:29.119 and just go over everything. Because just what he was saying before, 354 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:33.680 a lot of the basics, you know, uh get forgotten. And I 355 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.039 would tell guys all the time, if you know the basics, you can 356 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.400 improvise, you can you know, you can move on from what you have 357 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.079 to have those basics, and you know once the basics are down, because 358 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.799 the basics are just you know, they're not hard fast, steady rules, 359 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:52.160 but they give you the underlying knowledge that you need to, like I said, 360 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:56.000 to take a little bit further and you know, extrapolate on that, 361 00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:00.200 on that basic information. But if you don't have those basic six it's it's 362 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:07.200 hard to do m gons well for me, as you know, if if 363 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.640 you don't know the chief of training. So I actually get to participated a 364 00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:15.559 lot of drules, not only develop and create them and whatnot, but I 365 00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:18.799 actually go out in the field and participate with the crew. But we all 366 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:22.960 know the value of and somebody mentioned it earlier as far as the buy in 367 00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:26.400 the respect all the stuff that comes with participating with your crew, the trust 368 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.960 that's built, um, the value on this is priceless. So I would 369 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:32.880 say, yes, I could. I can do this kind of stuff and 370 00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:36.480 have done this stuff with them. Really shoot and sweet Mike, what do 371 00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:37.640 you like? Do you like the funny Gons or the like. They're very 372 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:42.359 intellectual gons. I don't know which guy. Who's this guy? He's usually 373 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:53.000 still play shit like this. Now I'm ready. It's not enough to be 374 00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.880 handsome, it's not enough to be a similar thought. I gotta put me 375 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.480 on the spot like that. I'm trying to come across as intelligent as you 376 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:10.799 said, articulate very well. I just didn't know who you d Oh wait, 377 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:18.799 I got a hold. That's the strip club, Jesus. Let's get 378 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:22.359 back with professionalism. Yes, chief Chief Crook. Are your view on this? 379 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.200 What's your take me on this? I take on it. Well, 380 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.640 I'll tell you what so. Yeah, you have to stay involved, especially 381 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:36.160 if you're a saying until in particular battalion. I mean, those are the 382 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:41.359 people that you work with every day. Uh, you are the oversight. 383 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.720 If there's something broken, it's up to you to fix it. There's something 384 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.720 or performance is subpart, it's up for you to fix it. You need 385 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:56.319 to know how well the members and your will say battalion are our trained and 386 00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.680 what they're capable of doing. I don't think that there has to be well, 387 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.960 we're going to go out and drill an hour today. We're going to 388 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.880 drill two hours today. I think we're going to do it over a couple 389 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:12.960 of specific things. And as long as you can show me that you can 390 00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:18.319 meet and achieve the level necessary and whatever it is that we're doing, I 391 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:22.960 think we're good to go with that. UM. You know, having trucks, 392 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:30.240 do engine drills. Avengine guys do truck drills. Have have firemen, 393 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:34.559 um, you know, trying to lead that drill as well while you oversee 394 00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:40.319 it. You know, people who are going to be perspective officers or or 395 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:45.319 leaders in the future. To to be able to confidently oversee a drill and 396 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.559 train and learn from it. I mean, I think those those are all 397 00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:53.799 good things, and I like to to really kind of stick more to the 398 00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:59.000 basics as what's mentioned. You know, in my time in the fire service, 399 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.279 most of the significant injuries and most of the line of duty debts, 400 00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:08.440 you know, after all was said and done, was some breakdown in the 401 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:17.799 basic firefighting principles or procedures. It was nothing you know, that extravagant or 402 00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:25.119 well involved. They were lapses in basic principles of firefighting and training. And 403 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.440 I think that's where we tend to go most wrong or come up short. 404 00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.400 I don't think it has to get real in depth or fancy. Sticking to 405 00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:38.200 some of the basics is some of the things that mostly keep us out of 406 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:44.759 trouble and better achieve our goals and objectives. So that's some of my perspective 407 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:48.039 on it. And can I just follow up and what you were just saying, 408 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:53.759 it's it's fascinating how you hear all the time, especially during drills, 409 00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:59.039 of people wanting to do things that are outside of the norm or outside of 410 00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:02.839 the box. And my message to that is you have to become very good 411 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:06.920 on the inside of the box before we ever start going outside the box. 412 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:10.599 Keep it simple, stick to the basics. That's a foundation of everything that 413 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:15.799 we do. And there's a tendency and although it's boredom or people read stuff 414 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.559 from from other places about what they think is better than what we do, 415 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:22.839 but we need to be really good about the simple stuff and the stuff that's 416 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:27.720 inside the box before we go anywhere else. I'm great, I like that, 417 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:30.359 all right, Mikey, what's nice path? All right? So we'll 418 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:34.519 go to the third question, which is the following, what are your excuse 419 00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:37.039 me, yeah, what are your most decision points for calling for additional help 420 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:43.279 or transmitting additional alarms. I think Chief Steve's thoughts this one, right, 421 00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:52.119 Yeah, Yeah, Basically what I always did was anytime that I was using 422 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:57.480 everybody already that I didn't have any reserve, I knew, what you need 423 00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:01.920 more help. As soon as everybody that you have on scene is already being 424 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:07.039 used, even even if you don't think you're going to need them, you 425 00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:10.279 got to call them. There is there's lag time that you know, you 426 00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:15.039 you have to think about the you know, different things and at any any 427 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:17.839 minute something could go wrong. So you want to always make sure that you 428 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:22.880 have somebody on scene, you know that you're not using everybody already. And 429 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.680 I can say, uh, you know, we're a larger department, I 430 00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:29.519 realized, and you know, some others and you know, things are different. 431 00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:31.400 But where I worked to you know, in the area Queens where I 432 00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:35.680 worked, the further east we went, you know, we had companies that 433 00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.559 were spread out, you know, a fair distance. So I was always 434 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:43.839 very leery out there, you know, even you know, because we did 435 00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:45.759 a lot of private dwelling work out there. Uh, you know, as 436 00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:50.640 soon as everybody was being used, I wanted to call for somebody, I 437 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.119 don't care if I had to turn them back. I would tell guys all 438 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:55.559 the time, it doesn't matter. They're getting paid, whether they get used 439 00:33:55.640 --> 00:34:00.119 or not. You're getting paid the same amount of money. And uh know, 440 00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:01.920 if something goes wrong, I don't want you know, you don't want 441 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:06.920 to be playing catch up. Absolutely right. I heard a couple I don't 442 00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:09.440 know where I heard it from a few times doing the show. And you're 443 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:13.760 from the seventies, so you would know, or even even before that mid 444 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:16.760 seventies, early early seventies, sixties, the chiefs didn't want to bang out 445 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:21.800 a second, right. It was like, well, now you're talking about 446 00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:24.559 New York City Fire Department specifically when you say that, because at the time, 447 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:30.840 the chief of department, Chief Hagen, that was he didn't want them 448 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:35.360 transmitting differental loans because all the civil unrest that was going on in the city, 449 00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:37.400 or they were trying to keep numbers low. They were trying to, 450 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:43.519 you know, artificially make the numbers lower. So if you bang that extra 451 00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:45.480 alarms you will get you will call down. And you were told, you 452 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:49.400 know, you had to just keep calling for extra units. You know, 453 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:52.440 you you'd have like a third alarm there and never transmit even a second. 454 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:57.440 But they didn't want you transmitting those alarms because they were trying to keep the 455 00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:01.480 numbers, you know, which is its very similar to um, you know, 456 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:07.119 you have a somebody at a fire who gets uh significant injuries, right 457 00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:12.400 and in the New York City Fire Department, if he doesn't die in twenty 458 00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:15.559 four hours, he's not considered the fire death, which you know, it's 459 00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:21.800 totally he died from the fire. But during the sixties and seventy in order 460 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:24.639 to keep the number of five fatalities down, that made and then and they 461 00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:30.280 never backed off it since. So at a well, what becomes a fatal 462 00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.280 fire, you have you know, ten forty five as a signal in the 463 00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:37.119 New York City five apartment and different codes one, two, three, and 464 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.519 four. So if he if he's not dead, he doesn't get a code 465 00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:43.519 one, but if you get a code two three, whatever, if that 466 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:47.239 person lasts more than twenty four hours and then dies twenty four hours after that, 467 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:52.039 it's not it's not considered fatal fire in the reporter or anything. And 468 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:57.840 it's slowly like I say, for numbers of keeping fatalities lower, and they 469 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.719 just never walked it back. They did a lot of things in the seventies 470 00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:07.519 and sixties to manipulate the the burning down of the that's what they know, 471 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:13.840 manipulated everything, you know, they weren't. You know, there was a 472 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:19.480 lot um re gentrifying by burning the people out of their homes. Go back 473 00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.480 and you can look at headlines and you know, from those you realize, 474 00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:27.079 I mean how much destruction was going. You were having you know, fire 475 00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:31.840 bombs, you know, bombings constantly in New York, I mean construction sites, 476 00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:36.719 uh, you know, all pipe bombs. You know, there was 477 00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:42.000 a lot of civil unrest and it actually, um, I think today I'm 478 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:46.840 not sure if today is the the the date in sixty eight where RFK was 479 00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:52.920 shot, but it was in June um but from from April fourth into June 480 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:55.480 of sixty eight, from when Martin Luther King was shot into I mean, 481 00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:59.280 the amount of civil unrest that was gone in this country was you know, 482 00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:01.480 the burning I mean in all the major cities. You know, I say, 483 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:07.519 if you go back and you look, you know, really, you 484 00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:12.280 know, tremendous amount of damage and you know, we had neighborhoods that were 485 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:15.199 blighted. Then I totally. You know, we don't have those things now, 486 00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:22.760 but you know, just I mean the entire neighborhoods that were destroyed and 487 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.920 they were just you know, it was just part of what was going on. 488 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:32.039 Then yep, yeah, I got something good, bro. Yeah. 489 00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:36.079 I just wanted to focus on the chief googler on the first part of the 490 00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:38.400 question calling for additional help. And I don't mean to detach in any way, 491 00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:42.119 and I'm not trying to. But let's say it's not a fire, 492 00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.440 because if it's a fire, we know who, we know who the agency 493 00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:46.280 that's in command is going to be every single time. But let's say it's 494 00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:51.519 a mass casualty incident and you're sharing command with other agencies in New York City 495 00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:54.559 for example of course NYPD, OEM and so on and so forth. How 496 00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:59.599 does that alter or effect in any way how you go about calling for significant 497 00:37:59.719 --> 00:38:01.719 for additional help, I should say, because if there's a significant presence of 498 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:06.880 other agencies, does that change things from a chiefs respective on the fire Department. 499 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:14.320 Well, first of all, any time that we go to a multi 500 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:20.559 agency incident, which we do, we get we get involved in mutual aid, 501 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:22.320 we get involved in other things, even in the city of Chicago. 502 00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:32.679 We are in sole command of our personnel. So I mean we will always 503 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:42.440 organize and participate and help other agencies is the best we can. But if 504 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.639 we're involved with it, and I think we need more help from our aspect, 505 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:52.440 but I will get it. Nobody is going to have the oversight and 506 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:57.519 take control of my personnel. I am solely responsible for their well being. 507 00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:01.519 And that's kind of the way it is. Well. We organized together from 508 00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:07.960 a unified command position as it's called, to decide what type of resources we 509 00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:13.400 need, if we have enough, if we need more, But the way 510 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:17.960 we operate, I would be solely in charge of of the resources that we 511 00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:24.679 supply to speak. What about the original question, your decision for calling additional 512 00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:30.800 help with well, okay, so my ultimately at the top of the scale 513 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:37.280 of my decision to call for help is at the incident commander, is what 514 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.960 am I doing to my personnel? Okay, there's a lot of things that 515 00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:46.519 get involved with that doesn't have to be incident specific. I could have a 516 00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:52.079 work in fire and I could also have those some of those same companies working 517 00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.320 under two second or third fire of the day, and these guys are spent. 518 00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.039 I'm not going to kill them. I Am not going to hurt them. 519 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:01.519 It's my response ability to see that they go home safely. If I 520 00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:07.159 have to escalate the alarm to relieve those guys early, I will. Weather 521 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:12.679 conditions have a lot to do with it, whether it's hot or whether it's 522 00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:20.800 cold. For instance, insignificantly hot weather, a two line fire, I'll 523 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:27.159 escalate the alarm. Am I called for unnecessary resources? Absolutely not. As 524 00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:32.199 we expounded on earlier, whereas Chief Steve did, we have reflex time. 525 00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:37.400 It takes time for those companies to get there. I want them there. 526 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:40.079 Should I need them, I will bring them in, I will stage them 527 00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:45.000 two blocks away. And if I don't need them and I don't relieve companies 528 00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:49.760 on a scene, I simply strike out that that that particular incident and send 529 00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:52.039 them home. Weather has a lot to do with it, especially the hot 530 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:57.599 weather. We're all wrapped up these days in bunker gear and what have you. 531 00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:00.800 Not. You got some companies on that scene that may have been to 532 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:06.559 more than one fire already for that particular day. I'm sweating like a horror 533 00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:12.480 in church in the command post. What is happening with those guys? Heat 534 00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:17.639 is probably heat stress is probably the most critical factor that a firefighter can undergo. 535 00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:23.039 Somebody involved with heat stroke, it's probably fatal fifty percent of the time, 536 00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:28.800 and for the fifty percent of the time that they survive Oregon failure may 537 00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:32.760 be imminent down the road for them, they will probably have health issue right 538 00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:40.000 also, So brill, my number one reason or decision is for my people. 539 00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:45.000 But when you get down to the actual incident itself, we give size 540 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:50.199 ups. Okay, We're required to give them every fifteen minutes until the alarm 541 00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:55.599 is brought under control, and every thirty minutes thereafter. So I tended to 542 00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:02.199 give size up early. And I wasn't doing it just for a radio presidents. 543 00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:07.079 I was actually listening to myself. When I'm going five minutes, when 544 00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:12.119 I'm going ten minutes, when i'm going twelve minutes, I'm going fifteen minutes, 545 00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:17.000 I'm listening myself, and the incident is no closer than being brought under 546 00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:22.639 control fifteen minutes later than it was then when I arrived. There's a message 547 00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:30.760 there either change your tactics or call for help. Okay, So that is 548 00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:35.119 another case scenario. I mean, the obvious is when you got a whole 549 00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:37.480 out of fire when you arrive and you don't have enough people to begin with. 550 00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:43.280 But if the incident is in progress and you've been there ten or fifteen 551 00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:46.320 minutes and you've made no progress on it, something's got to change. And 552 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:52.599 those guys can't work forever. So get them the relief, escalate the alarm, 553 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.800 stage accompanies. If you must change your tactics, do whatever you have 554 00:42:55.880 --> 00:43:01.639 to do. As a chief officer. The one thing that you should not 555 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:07.840 be guided by is rhetoric or peer pressure. All right, you're responsible for 556 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:12.159 that incident. If you think you need help, you call for it. 557 00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:15.639 If you think you need to escalate that alarm, call for it. All 558 00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:20.119 right. You're responsible for those firefighters. They're safety and their well being. 559 00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:23.320 And the last thing that I'm gonna do is I'm gonna overwork a firefighter to 560 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:29.719 death. I do not want that on my personal resume. So that's my 561 00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:35.599 take on it. Right, Chief God, we skipped over. You did 562 00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:38.000 this to Tom Tony. Go Tom Tony can gone? Then you know? 563 00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:45.079 So I a combination. Really, if everything has been said Stephen right off 564 00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.079 the bat, I need somebody else at the command post. If I've used 565 00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:52.039 everybody I'm gonna I'm gonna escalate it. But the other factors, um, 566 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:57.480 how long has this fire been burning, what's the building type, the construction 567 00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:02.719 features in the smoke, volume, velocity, density, and color of smoke? 568 00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:07.599 Has have we not made any progress in some amount of time. I 569 00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:10.400 can't be thinking about the now. I have to be thinking about five or 570 00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:15.760 ten minutes from now. What have we done and have we made any headway 571 00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:21.599 or not. One of the decision points that I used to use as well 572 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:27.679 was an interior fire attack chief of I've assigned somebody to the interior cruise and 573 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:34.199 I'm getting solid intel from them, And the one phrase that always used to 574 00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:37.039 get me was high heat, zero visibility, unable to locate the seat of 575 00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:42.360 the fire, and I'm in a position of watching what's going on, and 576 00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:46.119 I will use that as a decision point about making that either escalating it or 577 00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:52.239 changing tactics of some type. So there isn't like a you know, an 578 00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.199 always in an effort, But there's all of these factors that come into play. 579 00:44:55.320 --> 00:45:00.719 Size, type of building, volume of fire. I use smoke as 580 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:05.920 a key indicator about what this thing's doing and where it's going. To prompt 581 00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:09.440 me in the right direction. Smoke is the predictor of future events, my 582 00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:16.320 friendly So yeah, but but just you guys, everybody had got port of 583 00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:19.039 great things. The only thing I'm going to add to it, as we 584 00:45:19.159 --> 00:45:22.119 touched on a little bit with building construction. For us, it's the weather 585 00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:24.880 for sure. Down here in South Florida. It's it's hot all the time 586 00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:29.840 and encapsulated in that gear, it's just everybody gets fatigued rather quickly. So 587 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:32.760 if it sounds crazy right on the initial alarm, I've done it before. 588 00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:36.599 I've asked for a couple of extra units. The second we call a working 589 00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:39.360 fire where it's automatically sends another engine and a rescue which is an ambulance by 590 00:45:39.519 --> 00:45:43.280 some other areas, they'll send that an NF. I feel that I need 591 00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:45.400 more, which at that point, which all these other factors that we take 592 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:50.000 into account, we'll call a second alarm with the alarm as necessary. But 593 00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:52.280 the target has is where I was going. With the elderly community that we 594 00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:55.440 have here. We have large buildings, mid and high rise. It hous 595 00:45:55.480 --> 00:46:00.400 a lot of elderly and once those buildings come in, it's just made immediately. 596 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:02.079 If I'm looking at the MCT. They're saying that, you know, 597 00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:05.480 ports of smoke, et cetera. Those little key factors. I'm just going 598 00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:07.239 to sending them anyway because you know they're gonna work. It's gonna be labor 599 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:12.760 intensive. For us down here is like a smaller agency and the reflex time 600 00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:17.519 and getting some unse from way ways of way to the scene. So that's 601 00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:23.320 pretty much all I have. Mikeys into the next question, which is the 602 00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:29.599 following, what are your decision points for moving from an interior attack to an 603 00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:31.400 exterior attack. There's no exterior attack we we talked about, and I'm just 604 00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:42.760 kidding down a well. For us in South Florida, it's um our building 605 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:45.840 code and building construction down here, and the West coast might be very similar 606 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:47.920 because of the hurricanes that we have and it kind of cuts off probably North 607 00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:52.519 Palm North Palm Beach maybe a little bit further where we get some match sticks 608 00:46:52.519 --> 00:46:53.920 that start still being built up that way. But for South Florida, have 609 00:46:53.960 --> 00:47:00.199 the hurricane andrew Or building codes were concrete for everything. So Ruman content fire 610 00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:04.320 in some areas where we think it's going to stay to a Rouman content fire 611 00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:07.159 may not be that. But if we pull up, you have heavy fire 612 00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:13.159 showing and there's really no signs of salvage or like you know, our tactical 613 00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:15.079 priorities life safety. Obviously, if there's no signs of saving the building, 614 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:19.280 then I'm not even going to go to an interior attack and make that push. 615 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:21.440 We're just going to get and try to write the building off and then 616 00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:24.199 go exterior again, depending on what life safety is kind of coming into play 617 00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:32.760 for the most part of it, chief, Yeah, I mean right away, 618 00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:38.360 arriving on the scene of an incident the first thing that I would do. 619 00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:44.559 Again, we talk about building instruction, how extremely important it is in 620 00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:50.639 the fire service to recognize exactly what you're dealing with. And so with that 621 00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:55.360 being said, when you identify the type of structure you know, fire resistant, 622 00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:02.840 ordinary would frame noncombustible milk construction, you should have a complete and thorough 623 00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:14.679 knowledge of what kind of burn time do these structures have where their structural stability 624 00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:17.960 starts to become compromised. And of course you should always error in a sight 625 00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:23.239 of better judgment with that and give big a lot of lateral lead away with 626 00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:29.519 that. But identifying that type of structure and the kind of burn time that 627 00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:36.440 it has is critical. Once you've committed people interior wise, especially as a 628 00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:42.519 chief officer, you should be watching and reading that building. Where was it 629 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.320 at, where did it go, and where might it go and end up? 630 00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:53.400 Now? Extremely important is it's been discussed, is the art of reading 631 00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:59.760 smoke. That will tell you so many things about the nature of your in 632 00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:07.239 and where it is going. The faster and darker that that smoke pushes out 633 00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:13.039 of a structure, the hotter the pushes behind it, the more of a 634 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:19.079 flashover and backdraft potential there is. You've been operating in these structures for fifteen 635 00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:22.159 and twenty minutes and you are not making any progress, and that goes back 636 00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:27.920 and in addition to I talk to you about my size ups and the radio 637 00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:34.519 size ups and listening to yourself. A combination of being in a structure interiorly 638 00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:39.719 for x amount of time, making no progress, reading that smoke, known 639 00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:44.039 where your fire has been, where it's at, and where it's going now 640 00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:50.400 are all indicators or whether it's time to back out or change your tactics, 641 00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:52.599 or do both of those things. If I can add to that, it's 642 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:57.199 just a little quick comment would be that if conditions and actions being taken on 643 00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:01.119 the inside, I'm not being reactive or changing on the exterior. That's probably 644 00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:04.400 where you're going as far as having that you know the conditions, they have 645 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:07.639 to match what we went inside for attack. If you're not seeing results on 646 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:09.880 the outside, okay, then you get every thinking about changing your extra plane. 647 00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:15.119 One thing I want to add to that is when in doubt, and 648 00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:20.559 this has been kind of the rule in my department, when you're questioning as 649 00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:27.079 to the conditions in the interior and on the roof, when the interior is 650 00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:34.199 saying one thing and the roof guys are giving you another picture of it, 651 00:50:34.679 --> 00:50:37.599 always be guided by what the roof guys are telling you. If the roof 652 00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.519 guys are telling you it's time for us to get off, they don't belong 653 00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:46.079 underneath. If they're telling you that conditions are not favorable versus what you're hearing 654 00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:50.559 on the inside, it's time to get off and it's time to get out. 655 00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:54.400 So we have always been led to believe that the people on the roof 656 00:50:54.719 --> 00:51:00.159 that are reporting those conditions to your decisions should be made by what they report 657 00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:09.280 to you rather than those operating on the inside. Great points I think number 658 00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:15.119 one is what phase are we in the life part of our priority here? 659 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:21.559 Do we have any knowledge of people still being in the building. You know, 660 00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:23.480 it's our responsibility to be able to push our troops to that point, 661 00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:28.159 and we're the ones, as the instant commanders making that decision. About the 662 00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:34.559 biggest reason to pull troops out would be that we've gone past the known life, 663 00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:37.920 the primary searches have been done, and now I move on to the 664 00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.800 building, the type of building, the size of the building. How long 665 00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:45.400 have we been operating for. If we've been operating and all of your points 666 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:51.280 and we're not making any progress the roof companies, if I've got companies on 667 00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:53.199 the roof, if we're not going to operate on the roof, we shouldn't 668 00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:57.360 be operating below the roof. And so if they've made that decision, it's 669 00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:01.199 leaning us in the right direction. I hate to keep repeating myself, but 670 00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:06.880 reading that smoke, if we're getting information from the interior of one thing, 671 00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:12.000 and we're seeing hostile, hard pushing black smoke from a different location in the 672 00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:15.719 building, and I'm just getting additional resources on the scene, it may be 673 00:52:15.800 --> 00:52:20.920 a time to change the tactics. And to another point, how many times 674 00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.880 have we had cruise interior to the building and we've decided to change our operations 675 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:29.119 from interior to exterior, and the interior cruise are saying, just give me 676 00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:32.639 a little bit longer. Ye always still, oh no, I never heard 677 00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:37.280 that. Yeah, And then they side they go, holy shit, I 678 00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:40.559 didn't know what looked like this because they don't have their Their world is very 679 00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:45.159 much different than what we're trying to absorb. And it really comes down to 680 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:51.119 the position of incident commander in that moment, tip of the spear, make 681 00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:53.440 a decision, be firm about it, be calm about it, and we'll 682 00:52:53.480 --> 00:53:00.039 regroup and come up with a different, different plan. Chief Steve Um just 683 00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:05.440 just going back to the FDN WI because that's that's my only practical experience. 684 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:09.599 Um. You know, like I said before, I was never the first 685 00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:14.880 due chief on the scene. I was you know, the fire had had 686 00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:19.039 been under way before I even got there. So one of the things that 687 00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:22.199 when you talk about the time is that you know, I have to remember 688 00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:24.880 when I get there, the fire has been burning at least five ten minutes 689 00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:29.679 to start with. So one of the one of the good things about about 690 00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:35.360 the FDNY, which they started about ten probably about ten was they constantly updated 691 00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:37.920 you on the time the fire was burning from the initial uh you know, 692 00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:42.960 when the first unit game came on a scene and transmitted the working fire that 693 00:53:43.159 --> 00:53:46.840 started the clock. And like I say, you know, a lot of 694 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:50.920 different factors come into play when you're you know, you're on you don't realize 695 00:53:50.920 --> 00:53:52.599 maybe how long it took you to get there to start with. And you 696 00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:58.039 know how so having that dispatcher constantly remind you, you know of the time 697 00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:00.760 of that fire, I found to be uh, you know really you know, 698 00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:07.199 very useful information that you know, so that you never lost track of 699 00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:09.239 that. You know, like I said, you get to the scene sometimes 700 00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:14.639 and a lot of different things are happening, and and you're not realizing that 701 00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:17.599 this is this thing's already been burning fifteen minutes. I just got on the 702 00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:22.199 scene, and you know, maybe I don't see you know, well, 703 00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:25.440 once I'm told, you know, and not it's twenty minutes, even though 704 00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:30.159 I'm on the scene for five minutes, but twenty minutes is still in Twenty 705 00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:34.880 minutes is a tremendous amount of time nowadays, exactly, so uh, like 706 00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:38.480 I said that that uh from Mike say, from the perspective of the deputy 707 00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:42.800 chief and the fd N, Y who who you know, I'm not on 708 00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:45.840 the scene initially, I'm not there. It takes me from time they you 709 00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:51.320 know, they transmitted to to me getting there, and depends on what how 710 00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:53.639 far I am. So that I found out to be uh, you know, 711 00:54:54.400 --> 00:54:59.000 very good to constantly be updated on that so you never lose track of 712 00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:01.480 it. Who more or less makes because you were a battalion chief at one 713 00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:07.039 time, who may ultimate decision? Bati chief? I said you were a 714 00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:09.840 battalion chief at one time. Yeah, but a long time ago. I'm 715 00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:15.320 just saying, like I'm sure they can. But a battalion chief can pull 716 00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:20.320 everybody out and start next theory. A company officer can pull everybody out if 717 00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:22.760 he's only if he's if he's the commander. U seen who who was in 718 00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:28.800 command on the scene has you know, can can direct the tactics. It 719 00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:31.800 just so happened, like I say, normally in the fire department and in 720 00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:37.639 the FDN. Why your first new units include a battalion chief, all right, 721 00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:40.519 so I know not every department you know that that's that's you know, 722 00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:45.119 not the un initial ticket that you may not get a battalion chief depending on 723 00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:47.880 you know, the department size and that. But every you know, working 724 00:55:49.159 --> 00:55:53.079 every response ticket in the FDNY re engines two trucks and a battalion and you 725 00:55:53.119 --> 00:55:58.760 know that, you know, so the battalion is on scene from the get 726 00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:02.079 go versus you know, unless they got called for like you know, something 727 00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:06.599 that would you know sometimes or you'll get a response, you know, like 728 00:56:06.639 --> 00:56:09.480 say, uh, you may get a one and one for a brush fight 729 00:56:09.639 --> 00:56:14.920 you know, supposed to be brush or its supposed to be contact or something 730 00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:16.360 right right, So I'm like, you get under scene and it's a working 731 00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:21.639 fire, then you could the lieutenant could be in charge, captain, you 732 00:56:21.639 --> 00:56:25.039 know, depending on who's who's manning those two units. But whoever's in charge 733 00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:29.480 has has the same authority. You know. He may not you know, 734 00:56:29.559 --> 00:56:32.519 have the amount of experience, but he had that particular it is up to 735 00:56:32.599 --> 00:56:37.760 him to make that decision. Yeah, There's been plenty of officers who dropped 736 00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:43.559 the second when they got they you know, they get under second alarm on 737 00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:46.559 arrival. You know, you know, if you have you know, you 738 00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:51.440 basically know you know, if there's two buildings involved or you know, multiple 739 00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:55.599 floors in the building. Those are you know, our signals for you know, 740 00:56:55.679 --> 00:57:00.760 automatic uh transmission of additional alarms. It gets to be a woman fuzzy 741 00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:07.920 sefn allow on arrivals. All right, Mikey, Well we're halfway through. 742 00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:10.559 Here's the fifth question of the ten and it is what is the greatest piece 743 00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:15.920 of advice that you can give to a new chief officer? I think you 744 00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:22.639 a chief crooker? Wow? Um, I mean there's there's a lot of 745 00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:27.679 ways to go with this. Obviously, you know, as a chief officer, 746 00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:32.119 uh, you have to be game ready. You have to be extremely 747 00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:40.760 knowledgeable and and trained uh to every level of alarm or incident that you are 748 00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:45.000 are going to go to, and you don't know what that incident is going 749 00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:50.719 to be that day. You have to take advantage of every possible training opportunity 750 00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:54.440 you can as a chief or anybody on a fire department for that matter, 751 00:57:54.559 --> 00:58:01.639 to better yourself and to stay up with the latest tactics and technique. But 752 00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:09.559 what I also firmly believe from a personal standpoint, as a chief officer or 753 00:58:09.559 --> 00:58:15.239 even as a company officer, those that work under your command must have absolute 754 00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:21.199 trust in you. Okay, they must trust you, all right, you 755 00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:23.840 have to be firm, you have to be fair, but they must trust 756 00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:30.679 you. You know, discipline was not really in my repertoire. I was 757 00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:35.400 an officer since nineteen ninety three. I never wrote charges on anybody. I 758 00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:38.800 tuned people up in a different way. I didn't feel that there was a 759 00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:45.480 need to hurt anybody. My goal was to take somebody who was maybe not 760 00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:50.960 making the grade or subpower and do what I could do to make them better 761 00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:55.880 and to rise them to the level of ability or to bring them up to 762 00:58:55.920 --> 00:59:02.880 that level where they should be and be in that starting lineup. But I 763 00:59:02.920 --> 00:59:12.440 think training to the best of your ability at all times. People have to 764 00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:17.960 trust you and the decisions that you make. And also last, but certainly 765 00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:25.280 not least on the list is I've also been a firm believer that your career 766 00:59:25.719 --> 00:59:32.400 should never come ahead of those that you lead. Decisions that you make must 767 00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:37.199 be the correct ones, even if they're unfavorable. But I was never one 768 00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:45.599 for letting anybody in management overreach or overstep and make an attempt to embarrass or 769 00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:50.360 harm one of my employees. And that's just something that stuck with me, 770 00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:55.360 and I learned that early on from people who had mentored me. So I 771 00:59:55.360 --> 00:59:59.840 think it's a combination several things. There are a lot more things out there, 772 01:00:00.280 --> 01:00:06.599 but but as a chief, understand that you're you're responsible for everybody and 773 01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:12.239 the ultimate goals to get our people home safely and healthy the next day and 774 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:16.159 always air on the side of better judgment for our for our people that we 775 01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:25.199 lead. Chief Tom Tony, I think one of the first things I would 776 01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:30.599 say to a brand new battalion chief was the clock runs differently at the command 777 01:00:30.599 --> 01:00:37.360 post. You want information, and you want it right now, and you're 778 01:00:37.400 --> 01:00:39.039 not going to get information right now. You have to get You have to 779 01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:44.599 trust the companies. You have to allow them to execute the plan I call 780 01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:46.840 it. Let them run the play. What they don't need is you in 781 01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:50.320 their ear all the time trying to get an update from them and try and 782 01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:54.599 get more information. Be patient. I'm not saying not to ask questions, 783 01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:58.880 but what I'm saying is to realize we all have to remember back to our 784 01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:00.880 day. Is the first time stretch in the line as a company officer or 785 01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:05.719 getting up to the roof or interior, and you have a chief officer that 786 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:08.239 wants more information, well you don't have it yet. So what I'm saying 787 01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:14.679 I would say is be patient, trust in your companies. Second kind of 788 01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:17.440 a just from a mentoring perspective, something that I picked up on with brand 789 01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:22.239 new battalion sheets. Establish a command post and keep it at one location. 790 01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:27.320 Stop wandering. You're going to be curious about what's happening. Maybe on the 791 01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:31.480 fireground, but crews are looking for a stationary command post. I want you 792 01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:37.880 to stay in one place, be visible, and provide some level of organization 793 01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:46.559 words not paragraphs. When you are asking for information, it shouldn't be you 794 01:01:46.599 --> 01:01:51.559 read the chapter in the book. Keep it very simple and basic, and 795 01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:57.039 ask for quick updates and your follow up questions. Shouldn't be asking for so 796 01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:01.000 much information that it just absorbs the radio. I think sometimes we get caught 797 01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:05.119 up on just wanting to know it all. You're not going to ever know 798 01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:08.599 it all. So you have to trust your companies that they are executing where 799 01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:12.440 you've sent them and that they're carrying out the task. If they need something, 800 01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:15.599 they're gonna ask you for it. That's the other thing. If if 801 01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:19.960 you have somebody responsible for an area of a building, then you put them 802 01:02:19.960 --> 01:02:22.559 in charge of it, they're going to ask you for things that they need. 803 01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:28.119 Don't give them resources, just dump the things into their area because you 804 01:02:28.199 --> 01:02:30.079 have somebody that's available. So if you're gonna put somebody in charge of an 805 01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:36.280 area, trust that they're going to ask for what they need already. Chief 806 01:02:36.320 --> 01:02:40.440 Steve Well, one of the first things I would say is you have to 807 01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:46.039 make the mental adjustments. Understand that now you're not in charge of a unit 808 01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:53.000 scene, and you have to a lot of what I've seen is with a 809 01:02:53.000 --> 01:03:00.039 lot of new chiefs, they want to still be the company officer instead of 810 01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:05.320 being the chief officer on the scene. So you have to tell yourself mentally 811 01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:07.679 that you have to step back now, all right, you're not a company 812 01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:12.719 officer, and it's just like it's just like the change from being a fireman 813 01:03:12.760 --> 01:03:16.039 to an officer. You know, you can you can be two types. 814 01:03:16.119 --> 01:03:19.719 You can be two grades of company off. You can be a lieutenant and 815 01:03:19.719 --> 01:03:22.480 a captain and they're similar, all right, But when you go from fireman 816 01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:28.239 to officer, it's a big change. When you go from company officer to 817 01:03:28.360 --> 01:03:31.159 chief officer, it's a big change, and you have to come back and 818 01:03:31.239 --> 01:03:36.280 step back and understand that you're not running a unit anymore. You're running a 819 01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:42.880 fire. So you have four or five six units that you're that you have 820 01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:45.960 to take care of. And like I say, you're not there to do 821 01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:51.920 a you know, you know, to force a door, to stretch a 822 01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:55.280 line. You you can't get involved in that. That's not what you're supposed 823 01:03:55.320 --> 01:04:00.719 to be doing, all right, So that I find for a chief, 824 01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:03.280 a new chief officer, That's one of the things I would tell them that 825 01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:06.880 I think is the most important. Remember what you what you are now. 826 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:12.039 You're no longer a company officer. You're a chief officer, and now you 827 01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:16.320 have to run the entire operation and not a unity just stole your thunder. 828 01:04:16.360 --> 01:04:19.519 But ahead, bro, that was a big point. I was gonna just 829 01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:23.400 say that same exact thing. But just now you have to force yourself to 830 01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:26.519 take a step back and look at the big picture. You're responsible, as 831 01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:29.119 you just said, Chief, You're responsible for everybody, not just the five 832 01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:31.599 individuals or four individuals you have on your rig or maybe that's coming up. 833 01:04:31.639 --> 01:04:36.480 It's it's definitely an adjustment mentally for a lot of people. And just to 834 01:04:36.559 --> 01:04:41.239 touch on a couple of things really quick is to always continue to perfect your 835 01:04:41.559 --> 01:04:45.159 craft. This is a it doesn't stop learning because you put that white helmet 836 01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:47.719 on, you know. So it's absolutely you have to continue to take the 837 01:04:47.760 --> 01:04:50.480 classes, do the training, and be involved in the training. You talk 838 01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:54.599 about buying. Like I mentioned earlier. Trust, you know, you have 839 01:04:54.679 --> 01:04:57.920 to be out there with your crews and they have to have trust that you're 840 01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:00.719 going to go ahead and have their best interest at heart all the time and 841 01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:04.079 not put them in harm's way. So you know that that takes a lot. 842 01:05:04.119 --> 01:05:08.039 So basically that's what I have for that much we did. I'm going 843 01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:12.119 to chime in with one coming from a fireman's perspective when it comes to chief, 844 01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:15.679 and I can use my brother as an example, and I'll even tell 845 01:05:16.119 --> 01:05:20.679 a story and mine is going to be be consistent. And one thing I 846 01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:25.280 could say about my brother, he was always consistent. All he wanted you 847 01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:30.599 to do was act like a professional drill where the correct uniform and act like 848 01:05:30.679 --> 01:05:32.840 a professional. And if your consistent all the time, there's nothing worse than 849 01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:35.920 having a chief that one day is this, then one day's dad and he's 850 01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:41.599 just not bagging. You find out he's you know, he's a hard drinking 851 01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:44.199 in the firehouse and you wind out, you find out he was a boozer 852 01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:47.440 back in the day. You know, be consistent. So one day I 853 01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:51.119 tell the story. One day I get detailed to the truck where he was 854 01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:57.920 the captain in the engine and he was coming he was coming in at night. 855 01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:00.679 I was working a day tour in the truck. So I'm sitting in 856 01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:03.000 the house watch talking to another guy that I know, and some guy walks 857 01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:06.000 in from the edge and he don't know me. He goes, is that 858 01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:12.039 fucking Nazi cock suckering yet? And and the and the guy goes, oh, 859 01:06:12.119 --> 01:06:15.480 his brother, And he's like, oh, oh yeah, we fuck 860 01:06:15.519 --> 01:06:21.800 around like that all the time. Man like that. Yeah he's dead now, 861 01:06:21.920 --> 01:06:24.679 God rest his soul. He was a good guy, right, You 862 01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:28.400 liked him? All right? Oh yeah, I love them. Yeah, 863 01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:33.840 so be consistent too. That's all great points. Yeah, Mikey, go 864 01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:39.000 for the next one, bro thing. Mike was meted there for a second. 865 01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:41.239 All right, here's the next one. Chief. Are you getting bit 866 01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:47.079 by mosquitoes? A lot of I was gonna say, yeah, I must 867 01:06:47.079 --> 01:06:53.239 be near the airport. I don't know why they were. They changed their 868 01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:58.519 pattern tonight here. It's not a problem. They wanted to be involved in 869 01:06:58.519 --> 01:07:01.320 the show anyway, can you playing the value and importance of a chief officer 870 01:07:01.360 --> 01:07:08.039 occasionally speaking directly to firefighters to ensure the leader's intent he is understood by all. 871 01:07:11.079 --> 01:07:18.480 Chief Tom, this is so important to peel back the layers of misinformation, 872 01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:25.440 disinformation and way people hear things, how things are communicated. I would 873 01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:29.679 on a daily basis as an assistant chief meet with my Bettigon chiefs, or 874 01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:32.119 I'd have five Bettigon chiefs in the office, and you know, after we're 875 01:07:32.119 --> 01:07:36.119 talking about the bs from downtown and the daily stuff, I always wanted to 876 01:07:36.119 --> 01:07:42.920 bring up, you know, something tactical or strategic or talk about some fireground. 877 01:07:43.480 --> 01:07:46.239 And I know, nine times out of ten, when those guys left 878 01:07:46.239 --> 01:07:49.800 the office, it stayed with them and they didn't go any further. And 879 01:07:50.760 --> 01:07:58.000 that was always disappointing to me. But I would always barely consistently, you 880 01:07:58.039 --> 01:08:00.199 know, let's take a ride, maybe go out to the station and go 881 01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:03.199 observe a drillsome place and get the opportunity to, you know, follow up 882 01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:06.039 on what I thought was important that I talked about at the meeting that morning 883 01:08:06.039 --> 01:08:11.039 and see if it had made it out there, and not bypassing the chain 884 01:08:11.079 --> 01:08:14.360 of command, but just kind of closing the loop on maybe things that we 885 01:08:14.360 --> 01:08:17.279 were talking about. We've talked about, you know, the art of reading 886 01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:24.520 smoke and building construction and stretching a line to the right in the right direction 887 01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:28.760 to the right location, and how you select the right lead. All tactical 888 01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:31.920 things, but you know they're super important. It was said earlier how important 889 01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:36.039 it is for for us as chief officers to trust that what you've asked them 890 01:08:36.039 --> 01:08:41.439 to do is getting done. And it goes to that leader's intent, task, 891 01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:45.800 purpose, and state when I asked something to be done, is it 892 01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:48.039 going to look like what I expected it to look like? And that all 893 01:08:48.039 --> 01:08:54.439 takes place in an informal way, and going out to drills, going to 894 01:08:54.520 --> 01:08:58.840 stations and checking in and not bypassing the chain of command, always let the 895 01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:03.079 battalion chief know where I was going. I didn't want to surprise anybody, 896 01:09:03.800 --> 01:09:08.439 but it was you know, we're in charge of these troops, right, 897 01:09:08.479 --> 01:09:12.439 We're in charge of them from the moment they come to work until they go 898 01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:14.800 home. And I don't want them to be strangers to me, and I 899 01:09:14.840 --> 01:09:17.520 want them to have an avenue for asking me questions. So I would provide 900 01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:25.439 that opportunity for questions and direction and just be us and just asking questions and 901 01:09:25.960 --> 01:09:29.920 laid it all out there. And I said it earlier many times it always 902 01:09:29.920 --> 01:09:31.560 came down to the why. And if I had the ability to answer the 903 01:09:31.600 --> 01:09:34.119 why, or I had a way to go find out the why, I 904 01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:40.880 would take place at that level. Chief Steve, who's now endorsed from the 905 01:09:40.920 --> 01:09:44.159 Mosquitoes get well. Now, I went into us because I thought it got 906 01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:48.199 too dark and I was getting too loud. Yeah, I always like to 907 01:09:48.199 --> 01:09:54.960 talk to h to the men, you know, and actually listen. We'll 908 01:09:55.039 --> 01:09:58.720 listen to them and see what they you know, what they were thinking and 909 01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:02.399 and all. So to to talk to them because you know a lot of 910 01:10:02.399 --> 01:10:06.239 times you get the you get the feeling like, uh, you know that 911 01:10:06.399 --> 01:10:12.520 they don't want to open up because uh or say something because they feel as 912 01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:15.239 a barrier between uh, you know, the chief and and a fireman. 913 01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:19.800 And you know the truth. I mean, years ago, years ago, 914 01:10:19.880 --> 01:10:26.279 there was now now now there's really not, but years ago there were um, 915 01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:29.279 you know, you never spoke to a chief officer when I first came 916 01:10:29.319 --> 01:10:31.720 on, and you know you used to actually try to go past his office 917 01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:35.640 and hope he didn't see you you know, um, but uh, you 918 01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:40.000 know you want you want you want to get feedback from them too, just 919 01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:42.039 as much as you want to say something to them, you want to get 920 01:10:42.079 --> 01:10:46.439 feedback and see what you know, what possibly what their grievances are, what 921 01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:51.960 you know. Uh, it's it's better to go direct and sometimes to go 922 01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:56.079 through a filter. And I can say when he's talking about chain of command, 923 01:10:56.560 --> 01:11:00.199 I'm not you know, I would just consider these things informal, you 924 01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:03.119 know, just informal, you know, conversations to uh, you know, 925 01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:08.479 just to get the feel for things. Would would you talk? What would 926 01:11:08.479 --> 01:11:11.000 you say? Would you talk to fireman who may or may not have been 927 01:11:11.079 --> 01:11:13.840 driving you? And when you wake up in the morning sitting out of the 928 01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:17.600 Death Death naked with his bunk of boots on doing paperwork? Would would you 929 01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:23.000 talk to a guy like that? Allegedly? Honestly? Every once in a 930 01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:30.520 while you run, as Jago I was telling the guys before you got out 931 01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:32.159 of the show. Come on, you didn't laugh as much when I was 932 01:11:32.199 --> 01:11:34.880 there. You never laughed that much. You know, are you what funny? 933 01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:44.159 There's no doubt about it. You were very funny. Yeah, Um, 934 01:11:44.239 --> 01:11:47.399 I agree, because we've suffered a lot from the lack of communication in 935 01:11:47.479 --> 01:11:51.359 my agency and in this area. So that again going back to the value 936 01:11:51.399 --> 01:11:56.640 that consistency, making sure that the correct navative narrative is spread to their out 937 01:11:56.680 --> 01:12:00.920 the department. That way they understand what everybody is. You can knowledge what 938 01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:02.680 the membership might be upset about. Maybe we could make a change at the 939 01:12:02.680 --> 01:12:06.880 administration level to keep everybody, the troops happy and stuff like that, but 940 01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:09.760 just to keep it simple. So I don't take a lot of time, 941 01:12:09.800 --> 01:12:13.960 but the value in that is again it's probably another priceless thing. So you 942 01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:17.640 have the continuity and consistency of a certain message that we're trying to send and 943 01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:25.199 still again confidence that we're there to support the troops. Chief Mitch, Yes, 944 01:12:25.239 --> 01:12:27.920 sir, you're up. Well, yeah, fellow, I'm up, 945 01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:33.760 I'm up. Okay, well yeah. If there's anybody on the fire department 946 01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:42.600 in Chicago, that and more of an open dialogue with firefighters than me. 947 01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:47.840 I'd like to know who it is, always open to them. I always 948 01:12:47.880 --> 01:12:50.880 wanted to hear from them, always want to talk with them, always want 949 01:12:50.880 --> 01:12:56.159 to see what their thoughts are, what's going on. I want to be 950 01:12:56.199 --> 01:13:01.119 in the level that everybody understands the goals and objectives for the fire department or 951 01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:05.720 something particular that day. I had no problem being approached. I had no 952 01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:12.319 problems with questions being asked. I had none of that. I think there's 953 01:13:12.399 --> 01:13:19.279 a certain level of of a personal relationship that you need to have with dialogue 954 01:13:19.319 --> 01:13:24.600 to also develop that trust that we talked about. But I do think that, 955 01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:29.560 you know, I've been approached a million times about things over my career 956 01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:35.119 about for instance, let's just say, is it okay if I do this? 957 01:13:35.239 --> 01:13:38.760 Or is it okay if I do that? Or would you mindus? 958 01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:42.399 And the answer is like, don't ask me. I'm a chief The answer 959 01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:46.880 is no. You know, you put that on your company officer. Something's 960 01:13:46.920 --> 01:13:50.000 going on here or something I don't need to know or see. I'm not 961 01:13:50.079 --> 01:13:56.560 coming around tonight. Get my drift. That's all eyes on the company officer. 962 01:13:56.640 --> 01:14:00.399 I would get asked questions, I say, no, the chers No, 963 01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:02.760 don't ask me, don't bring that to me, don't approach me with 964 01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:09.520 that because I'm not supposed to know about it, you know. So those 965 01:14:09.520 --> 01:14:13.119 are things or as the discussions that they should not have with a chief officer. 966 01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:16.279 They should deal directly with the company officer on it. Other things that 967 01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:20.880 are important that the chain of command should be followed. But I believe in 968 01:14:20.920 --> 01:14:30.760 that personal dialect between a chief officer and firefighters and engineers and what have you 969 01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:35.159 not. I think it's important. I think it's important. But as Steve 970 01:14:35.239 --> 01:14:39.199 said, you go back in the day, nobody ever approached the chief and 971 01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:44.239 he's corrected. You walked by him and hopefully he didn't even didn't see you 972 01:14:44.319 --> 01:14:47.760 be there. But things have changed, and I think if it's keeping in 973 01:14:47.880 --> 01:14:54.159 perspective, there's nothing wrong with it. I gotta tell you, I have 974 01:14:54.319 --> 01:15:01.479 never heard more stories about a chief conducting with Tomfoolery like I have with Chief 975 01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:12.359 Crook, with the stories that we can't stand limitations over. As I said 976 01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:16.960 previously, ninety five percent of my career I cannot talk about. And even 977 01:15:17.039 --> 01:15:20.840 after I'm even after I'm long gone, if they find out, they'll dick 978 01:15:20.920 --> 01:15:27.279 me up and prosecute me. One other thing on that, I think it 979 01:15:27.399 --> 01:15:30.439 kind of for me. It wraps it all up. When people stop coming 980 01:15:30.439 --> 01:15:32.119 and talking to you and asking you questions, it might be time to move 981 01:15:32.119 --> 01:15:35.039 on. Yeah, I mean, I think that would be something to pass 982 01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:39.560 on to a brand new battalion chief is you have to be approachable. And 983 01:15:39.720 --> 01:15:44.880 I'm not saying that every grievance in every process, but when people aren't coming 984 01:15:44.920 --> 01:15:46.560 to you as a confident, they're trying to gain some knowledge from you, 985 01:15:47.079 --> 01:15:54.680 and you're isolated, it might be time to rethinking what you're doing. Find 986 01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:57.560 out an opening line that you can approach them with. Like the chief Steve 987 01:15:57.760 --> 01:15:59.800 was, if you talked about the Mets. So if you tell them that 988 01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:02.520 Hillary Clinton sucked, you were in bro. He started a conversation with you 989 01:16:02.640 --> 01:16:14.520 right away, no problem, I am lying right well. Before I get 990 01:16:14.520 --> 01:16:15.640 to the next one. I just wanted to interject real quick. And I 991 01:16:15.680 --> 01:16:18.279 can't speak to this personally, of course, but I do remember Vinny Done 992 01:16:18.319 --> 01:16:23.239 telling me this when I interviewed him last December, where and this line is 993 01:16:23.239 --> 01:16:26.479 stuck with me, where he said one man can't make a fire scene safe, 994 01:16:26.600 --> 01:16:30.399 as he specifically added, one chief can't make a fire scene safe. 995 01:16:30.399 --> 01:16:32.439 And all that was to say he wanted that collaboration. Of course, he 996 01:16:32.520 --> 01:16:36.399 wasn't saying disrespect or go past the chain of command. If you had a 997 01:16:36.399 --> 01:16:39.439 lieutenant that you could talk to you right on the spot, or a captain 998 01:16:39.439 --> 01:16:41.800 you could talk to you right on the spot, do that. But he 999 01:16:41.920 --> 01:16:45.239 was never the type of guy at any instant that he was specifically in charge 1000 01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:48.479 of to shun a firefighter away. If that firefighter had something valuable to bring, 1001 01:16:48.640 --> 01:16:51.520 or had something pertinent in that moment that he felt he could answer, 1002 01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:56.760 he always welcomed that and sometimes listen, approachability and availability, as I learned 1003 01:16:56.800 --> 01:16:59.760 from my conversation with him and other chiefs over the years, they go hand 1004 01:16:59.760 --> 01:17:01.199 in hand, and so. On that note, we can definitely go you 1005 01:17:01.239 --> 01:17:05.159 know, that's a perfect segue into the Mike Cologne. Uh what about the 1006 01:17:05.199 --> 01:17:10.000 Colo report that's coming back the Mike the Newhaven podcast, which we can talk 1007 01:17:10.039 --> 01:17:12.000 about a little bit more at the end. I don't want to, of 1008 01:17:12.039 --> 01:17:15.199 course, step on these questions, but I have a little little announcement therethy 1009 01:17:15.720 --> 01:17:19.079 beautiful, the beautiful segue, indeed, and that on that note, we 1010 01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:23.680 can go to the next question, which is what are the top three leadership 1011 01:17:23.800 --> 01:17:33.199 qualities a chief officer must? All right, chief, who's up? Just 1012 01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:38.640 pick somebody? I think Chief Steve's up? Go ahead? All right, 1013 01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:45.800 Well you mentioned one before before. Consistency, All right, Um, I 1014 01:17:45.239 --> 01:17:49.600 mean in my career, I never liked anyone that you didn't know who he 1015 01:17:49.680 --> 01:17:55.439 was that day, you know, and people could be so very you would 1016 01:17:55.479 --> 01:17:58.960 like that, you know, you couldn't believe it's the same person. So 1017 01:17:59.119 --> 01:18:04.119 consistent like this shoveled or something like you know their personality, oh the personality 1018 01:18:04.319 --> 01:18:10.800 right, consistent with your personality. Don't be you know, completely different than 1019 01:18:11.079 --> 01:18:15.319 you know, like I said, and from day to day consistency of your 1020 01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:20.840 personality. Another thing I would say honesty. And the third thing I would 1021 01:18:20.880 --> 01:18:27.119 say is proficiency. You have to know your job, you have to be 1022 01:18:27.159 --> 01:18:30.960 proficient at it. And then you throw in those other two qualities of being 1023 01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:39.680 honest and being consistent. I think those three I think will be fine for 1024 01:18:39.720 --> 01:18:45.680 your career. Gon's three for you, kid, I have well, the 1025 01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:49.039 common ones we always have or your courage, integrity, leading by example, 1026 01:18:49.119 --> 01:18:53.479 being empathetic. Those kind of ones always stand out for when you talk about 1027 01:18:54.079 --> 01:18:57.000 leadership qualities, other ones when you interview whatnot. Those are the ones you 1028 01:18:57.039 --> 01:19:00.039 always hear a lot about. But something I'd like to add to this a 1029 01:19:00.199 --> 01:19:02.920 little curveball, which Chief Steve brought some really great ones. As well as 1030 01:19:03.359 --> 01:19:09.760 being a good strategic thinker, you know, being able to size up a 1031 01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:14.000 situation and process to correctly. You know, again with all the stuff that 1032 01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:16.680 we've just talked about up to this point, Being a good communicator, being 1033 01:19:16.720 --> 01:19:21.319 able to communication again another topic that we hit about it continually looking to improve. 1034 01:19:21.479 --> 01:19:27.560 You know, just because you get to a certain level doesn't mean that 1035 01:19:27.680 --> 01:19:30.399 that, Like I said before, all the information, all training stops. 1036 01:19:30.399 --> 01:19:32.319 You always want to get ahead and better yourself. That way, the trust 1037 01:19:32.359 --> 01:19:35.399 and all the great conversation that we've had all is going to kind of come 1038 01:19:35.439 --> 01:19:39.399 through, I feel at that point with those three. So that's really what 1039 01:19:39.439 --> 01:19:46.399 I have, Chief Mitchum. Yeah, a lot of what we've we've we've 1040 01:19:46.439 --> 01:19:57.920 already talked upon. Absolutely thoroughly knowledgeable in your profession and know your rank, 1041 01:19:58.199 --> 01:20:04.640 throw and throw and also understand and be cognizant and keep at the top of 1042 01:20:04.680 --> 01:20:10.319 your game plan at all times. Be humble, Never think that you have 1043 01:20:10.479 --> 01:20:15.039 it down, Never think that you know this job too much to ever call 1044 01:20:15.520 --> 01:20:23.239 an incident routine. The routine incidents are the ones that kind of bite us 1045 01:20:23.239 --> 01:20:27.359 in the ass. Nobody, none of us have this job down. If 1046 01:20:27.399 --> 01:20:31.760 any of us think that we have this job down, time for us to 1047 01:20:31.800 --> 01:20:40.079 do something different. So always be humble, Always understand that danger lurks within, 1048 01:20:40.880 --> 01:20:45.920 don't get caught up in it. Don't be complacent. So be thoroughly 1049 01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:51.520 knowledgeable in every aspect of your job. That trust factor comes in. The 1050 01:20:51.640 --> 01:20:57.680 people who are working under your command must trust you. They have to know 1051 01:20:57.880 --> 01:21:01.920 everything and believe everything that I just told you. All of those, all 1052 01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:06.399 of those factors. You do have to be a critical thinker. And those 1053 01:21:06.439 --> 01:21:15.479 are just some things from a philosophy point of view. Tactically, I think 1054 01:21:15.520 --> 01:21:21.119 a good definition of somebody who is good tactically is a chief is to be 1055 01:21:21.199 --> 01:21:28.680 able to respond and pull up to an incident, see exactly what he has, 1056 01:21:29.880 --> 01:21:31.279 see where it's been, see where it's at, and see where the 1057 01:21:31.319 --> 01:21:35.920 incident must might be going, and be able to read that incident for the 1058 01:21:35.960 --> 01:21:44.079 future, and tactically set up for that incident early in the future, so 1059 01:21:44.159 --> 01:21:49.640 that when alarms are escalated, that we're knocking moving things and shutting things down 1060 01:21:49.680 --> 01:21:54.840 and tactically having to make a compleinte turn around what we already do. You 1061 01:21:54.960 --> 01:21:58.760 have to have those things in place for the next escalation of alarm, so 1062 01:21:58.800 --> 01:22:02.880 that when you start putting other companies to work that the process just flows and 1063 01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:10.800 you're not reshuffling the deck. You have to understand how to read that incident 1064 01:22:10.880 --> 01:22:15.079 and set up for the next level of alarm without him and a reshuffle the 1065 01:22:15.159 --> 01:22:18.039 duck. You have to really look into the future of that alarm and see 1066 01:22:18.039 --> 01:22:21.479 where things may be gone. But just off the top of my head, 1067 01:22:23.520 --> 01:22:27.439 those are some of the things I believe that will make you a successful chief 1068 01:22:27.560 --> 01:22:30.880 officer. Some of the qualities and I think you need to obtain and have 1069 01:22:32.720 --> 01:22:41.000 chief I think the three qualities that I always drive for were trust, care, 1070 01:22:41.199 --> 01:22:45.560 and competency. I think trust is a two way street. You want 1071 01:22:45.920 --> 01:22:47.640 to provide a level of trust to people that are working for you, and 1072 01:22:47.720 --> 01:22:54.800 you would like them to trust you have you have their back and the actions 1073 01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:59.000 that you're taking in the decisions that you're making is in their best interest, 1074 01:22:59.039 --> 01:23:01.800 in the best interests of the people that we serve. I think the ability 1075 01:23:01.840 --> 01:23:09.239 to care not so much on a completely on an emotional level, but the 1076 01:23:09.239 --> 01:23:12.159 people that work for us, we have to care for them. They're under 1077 01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:15.760 our command, they're under our tutelage. There's there's a you know that that 1078 01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:20.359 old adage you know everybody that you is working for you. You want them 1079 01:23:20.399 --> 01:23:24.119 going home tonight or tomorrow morning, and so you have to have that level 1080 01:23:24.159 --> 01:23:28.600 of care for them, not being flippant, not making decisions that are dangerous 1081 01:23:28.720 --> 01:23:32.479 or outside of the norm. And Chief Steve, you said it earlier, 1082 01:23:32.520 --> 01:23:36.399 proficient, I say the word competent. You need to be competent in your 1083 01:23:36.479 --> 01:23:42.840 in your craft. You need to stay on your game, remain contemporary whatever 1084 01:23:42.920 --> 01:23:48.600 you're doing, to keep in the knowledge of contemporary firefighting. Because I tell 1085 01:23:48.600 --> 01:23:54.199 you what, the new generation has access to information right now. And if 1086 01:23:54.199 --> 01:23:57.039 they're going to ask you a question about something that's going on in the fire 1087 01:23:57.079 --> 01:24:00.399 service, it's nice to either be with them or one step head of them 1088 01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:03.960 to be able to answer that question. And competentded at your trade no matter 1089 01:24:04.000 --> 01:24:08.359 what gets thrown at you. The ability to fall back on one of two 1090 01:24:08.399 --> 01:24:12.720 things, policies or common sense, and to be able to execute based on 1091 01:24:12.720 --> 01:24:20.239 both of us excellent. We got a guy, mister Fitz's names all the 1092 01:24:20.279 --> 01:24:26.079 way from Sydney, Australia. Check it in. It's Patrick to see it, 1093 01:24:26.199 --> 01:24:29.159 John with a fifteen hours ahead of us. So right now it's twelve 1094 01:24:29.159 --> 01:24:30.680 in the afternoon over there in Sydney. I believe the hell are you doing 1095 01:24:30.680 --> 01:24:39.119 at twelve in the afternoon listening to these knuckleheads? Yeah, alright, Mike, 1096 01:24:39.159 --> 01:24:41.800 what do you got? What do we got left? We got? 1097 01:24:41.840 --> 01:24:44.640 This is yeah, this is two counting this one, of course, And 1098 01:24:44.680 --> 01:24:48.079 this following is to the eighth question of nine. The eight and West Coast 1099 01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:51.720 have different philosophies. Ain't that the truth? Regarding roof ventilations? Can you 1100 01:24:51.920 --> 01:24:58.800 articulate your strategy on roof operations? I think Gonza's up there, all right, 1101 01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:00.880 Well it's easy. I say, it's easy for us, but it 1102 01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:05.319 depends on residential, commercial, large structure and where the where the fires in 1103 01:25:05.359 --> 01:25:09.399 Florida, we don't really for residential homes, single family homes, to story 1104 01:25:09.439 --> 01:25:12.720 whatever the case may be, we don't. We don't look to put people 1105 01:25:12.720 --> 01:25:15.640 on the roofs right away. Just what the barrel tile roofs that we have, 1106 01:25:15.680 --> 01:25:18.600 they could potentially be slippery and whatnot. And and for us, there's 1107 01:25:18.600 --> 01:25:24.079 really no need to be that aggressive. We do a more of a horizontal 1108 01:25:24.399 --> 01:25:28.600 type of attack or ventilating through windows, et cetera. Before we put anybody 1109 01:25:28.640 --> 01:25:30.399 up on a roof. Commercial we may have to do the same thing. 1110 01:25:30.399 --> 01:25:32.840 I haven't done one and ever in my career. I hear about trench cuts 1111 01:25:32.920 --> 01:25:35.920 or trying to stop it from from the ground level, just going down a 1112 01:25:35.960 --> 01:25:39.439 couple of businesses and trying to get it up in the roof that way. 1113 01:25:39.479 --> 01:25:43.039 But we don't do a lot of roof work and where I am, so 1114 01:25:43.079 --> 01:25:48.159 it's uh, we put a lot of people on the roofs unnecessarily, mister 1115 01:25:48.239 --> 01:25:59.680 crooker, Yes, sir, uh well roof operations, Yeah, everybody. 1116 01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:03.560 Here's the disclaimer, so let I get my head bit off, so everybody 1117 01:26:03.880 --> 01:26:10.319 is completely aware of this. That Chicago, where I come from, we 1118 01:26:10.399 --> 01:26:18.000 have no mandatory SCBA order operating on roofs. So in other words, we 1119 01:26:18.119 --> 01:26:25.680 don't wear SCB iron roofs normally. That's optional and you'll rarely find it. 1120 01:26:25.760 --> 01:26:29.840 The only time that an SCBA should be worn on the roof where I come 1121 01:26:29.880 --> 01:26:34.680 from by order is a one ply roofing system. Where that one ply system 1122 01:26:34.880 --> 01:26:43.000 is very flammable and it's very toxic when it off gases. So that is 1123 01:26:43.039 --> 01:26:45.039 really the only time that you're going to find an SEB and a roof where 1124 01:26:45.079 --> 01:26:49.800 I come from. But we are big into roof operations. It is my 1125 01:26:49.960 --> 01:26:58.199 personal belief that you know, ventilation does what it is supposed to do. 1126 01:26:58.720 --> 01:27:03.720 It aids in rest, It aids in finding victims, It aids part of 1127 01:27:03.840 --> 01:27:10.000 fighters to find the seated a fire. It aids and prevents back drafts and 1128 01:27:10.079 --> 01:27:17.319 flashovers. It reduces physical damage in the building it u it tends to, 1129 01:27:17.600 --> 01:27:25.800 by by nature and by definition, kind of isolate and draw that fire to 1130 01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:31.600 the whole to ventilate that that hot toxic gas. I think ref ventilation is 1131 01:27:31.640 --> 01:27:39.439 extremely important. We are big ref ventilators in the seat of Chicago where I 1132 01:27:39.520 --> 01:27:46.600 come from. And it's absolutely necessarily a trench cut was mentioned m trench cuts 1133 01:27:46.600 --> 01:27:51.920 are great way. I use trench cuts routinely on residential structures, and the 1134 01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:59.399 reason for that is you can make that trench cut all the way from that 1135 01:27:59.479 --> 01:28:03.760 ridgeboard are down to that gutter line, and in doing so, you actually 1136 01:28:03.800 --> 01:28:11.039 get a bigger percentage of a gap to reduce or to to let those hot 1137 01:28:11.079 --> 01:28:15.399 gases and smoke out. And most importantly, you capture that dreaded knee wall 1138 01:28:15.760 --> 01:28:25.600 which tends to be a significant factor in the spread of fire and flashover, 1139 01:28:26.439 --> 01:28:31.279 which causes him in a danger for firefighters. Ventilating roofs. So trench cuts 1140 01:28:31.279 --> 01:28:38.359 are pretty big where I come from. You know, we're big roof ventilators. 1141 01:28:38.560 --> 01:28:43.640 And those are some of your more experienced personnel, people that you trust. 1142 01:28:44.159 --> 01:28:50.600 People work in that position technically unsupervised. In other words, they're never 1143 01:28:50.720 --> 01:28:56.880 unsupervised. That chief officers supposed to have his finger on that pulse every aspect 1144 01:28:56.880 --> 01:29:00.520 of that operation. But the fact that a man or is there's those people 1145 01:29:00.560 --> 01:29:03.840 on that roof have to be knowledgeable and what they're doing, and they have 1146 01:29:03.960 --> 01:29:10.079 to recognize situations that would cause them to get off as wall. Well. 1147 01:29:10.479 --> 01:29:15.199 Um, yeah, all four roof fennilation. Alright, So so now that 1148 01:29:15.199 --> 01:29:16.680 we know what you do on a roof, what are you doing a roof? 1149 01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:27.319 Um? We talked and when we go to Yak, I said, 1150 01:29:27.439 --> 01:29:30.960 my dad was from Boston, so a lot of that East Coast. The 1151 01:29:30.039 --> 01:29:41.359 accent was in my house on a daily bas so roof roof Chicago, jack 1152 01:29:41.479 --> 01:29:50.520 off, jack water water. Yeah, roof operations is a absolute priority in 1153 01:29:50.520 --> 01:29:57.439 San Francisco. UM, either a member or part of the first or second 1154 01:29:57.479 --> 01:30:00.760 truck company is going to be going to the roof of almost every fire building 1155 01:30:01.319 --> 01:30:06.199 for a couple of different reasons. Most of our buildings are connected, so 1156 01:30:06.319 --> 01:30:12.520 you're not getting through one side of the building or the other to get observation 1157 01:30:12.560 --> 01:30:15.000 of what's happening in the rear. Generally, my first report of what was 1158 01:30:15.000 --> 01:30:19.039 happening in the rear of the structure was coming from a roof report. If 1159 01:30:19.079 --> 01:30:24.760 it is a top floor fire on the flat roof, my expectations is for 1160 01:30:24.800 --> 01:30:30.560 that truck company to coordinate with the interior cruise and open up. They are 1161 01:30:30.600 --> 01:30:32.560 going to be doing all of those things that Mitch said earlier were have the 1162 01:30:32.560 --> 01:30:35.560 ability to control the fire, control the direction of the fire, prevent a 1163 01:30:36.399 --> 01:30:42.279 hostile fire event, preventing life, and fire extension. All of those things 1164 01:30:42.359 --> 01:30:48.840 are absolutely a priority and very much in favor of roof operations on a peak 1165 01:30:48.920 --> 01:30:55.039 roof structure. Same thing you have to remember in San Francisco, most of 1166 01:30:55.039 --> 01:30:59.800 our buildings are our post nineteen ten, nineteen twenty we had the earthquake and 1167 01:30:59.880 --> 01:31:02.800 nine you know, six that burned down the city. So the homes that 1168 01:31:02.840 --> 01:31:05.199 were built in the tens, twenties and thirties, we have a lot of 1169 01:31:05.199 --> 01:31:09.479 balloon frame constructed buildings, and we know that we get to fire in the 1170 01:31:09.479 --> 01:31:13.199 balloon frame constructed building where that fire is going to end up in the attic 1171 01:31:13.279 --> 01:31:15.560 space. So I need a truck company up on the roof to evaluate if 1172 01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:18.439 we do in fact that fire in the attic space, and if necessary, 1173 01:31:18.760 --> 01:31:25.159 to coordinate with the interior cruis to open up and very proud of our roof 1174 01:31:25.199 --> 01:31:32.920 operations and our ventilation tactics, Steve. I agree with both Mitch and Tom, 1175 01:31:33.199 --> 01:31:38.079 and I also agree with Mitch as far as when he says that, 1176 01:31:38.560 --> 01:31:43.119 you know, the roof man, he is operating unsupervised, I mean in 1177 01:31:43.159 --> 01:31:45.920 the sense of that there is nobody directly looking at him. He's under the 1178 01:31:45.960 --> 01:31:48.960 supervision of his chief he's under the supervision of his company open, but he 1179 01:31:49.159 --> 01:31:57.680 is working without actual visual supervision. And so they're going to be performing there 1180 01:31:57.760 --> 01:32:00.359 up They're going up there and they're going to ventilate the roof. They're not 1181 01:32:00.399 --> 01:32:02.279 going to be told the ventilate. They're gonna ventilate the roof. But the 1182 01:32:02.319 --> 01:32:09.640 only time where and I don't know how your departments operate, is in a 1183 01:32:09.720 --> 01:32:14.000 high rise. He's not going to be in the high rise. He has 1184 01:32:14.000 --> 01:32:17.199 to communicate with the chief officer at the scene before he ventilates. That I 1185 01:32:17.239 --> 01:32:20.720 mean the bulkhead at the at the roof level. Right, we can't just 1186 01:32:21.039 --> 01:32:26.079 be having the roof man go up in a high rise and ventilating the bulkhead 1187 01:32:26.680 --> 01:32:30.039 until he's told by the chief officer in the scene. But other than that, 1188 01:32:30.279 --> 01:32:33.439 everything else, like I say, the FDNY is also a very aggressive 1189 01:32:34.600 --> 01:32:40.399 roof cutting and the roof operations department, and I, you know, I 1190 01:32:40.439 --> 01:32:45.439 agree with trench cuts and uh, you know, a big cut over the 1191 01:32:45.439 --> 01:32:47.439 main body. And I agree with all the reasons that they said. Of 1192 01:32:48.119 --> 01:32:51.039 um it could I could say, except I just wanted to add that the 1193 01:32:51.359 --> 01:32:57.560 high rise roof operations are different. Can I do one more thing? And 1194 01:32:57.680 --> 01:33:00.640 I think reminding me about the high rise operations and one thing that I'm gonna 1195 01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:02.760 I'm gonna say I said that last time, I'm gonna say it again. 1196 01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:10.840 Positive pressure ventilation has no place on the fire ground for initial actions that a 1197 01:33:10.880 --> 01:33:15.279 structure fire. You're not able to control where that you're pushing that fire. 1198 01:33:15.319 --> 01:33:17.800 You don't know where the victims are, you know where the exit point is. 1199 01:33:18.560 --> 01:33:25.000 I'm an absolute, absolutely against the use of positive pressure of ventilation a 1200 01:33:25.399 --> 01:33:30.560 structure fire. I just wanted to touch on for us down here in Florida's 1201 01:33:30.560 --> 01:33:32.720 say, location on the fire and building constructure kind of will dictate. Like 1202 01:33:32.760 --> 01:33:36.199 I said, for oh, we have a lot of concrete jungles, things 1203 01:33:36.199 --> 01:33:40.760 are cubes, so really everything can stay is compartmentalized. Obviously it's in the 1204 01:33:40.840 --> 01:33:43.199 roof, it's through the roof. There's no reason for us to put it 1205 01:33:43.239 --> 01:33:45.560 on there. But for us, a priority for roof ventilation doesn't always happen. 1206 01:33:45.600 --> 01:33:49.319 We've may do a go to a Horozonald method first before we're trying to 1207 01:33:49.319 --> 01:33:53.159 put somebody on a roof. But again, we don't have the building construction, 1208 01:33:53.600 --> 01:33:57.399 the large structures. We have a few things, but mainly residential and 1209 01:33:57.479 --> 01:34:00.760 kind of mid rise type stuff. But it's it's there if we need to, 1210 01:34:00.920 --> 01:34:01.720 but it's not something that we did go to right away. I want 1211 01:34:01.720 --> 01:34:06.560 to make sure people are a little clear on that. Okay, right mikey 1212 01:34:06.920 --> 01:34:14.159 okay. So that leads us to the final question. Please and here we 1213 01:34:14.199 --> 01:34:17.039 are fire services always evolving, so this question is always appropriate. What do 1214 01:34:17.079 --> 01:34:24.199 you do to stay current and sharp to maintain your skills? Who's up? 1215 01:34:24.359 --> 01:34:31.439 I don't even remember. Let's go with Chief Tom. I think that there 1216 01:34:31.560 --> 01:34:36.560 is Let's go back, you know, twenty five thirty years where we waited 1217 01:34:38.119 --> 01:34:42.479 every month for fire Engineering or Firehouse magazine. Show up right, we're reading 1218 01:34:42.560 --> 01:34:45.039 random thoughts and it took us that amount of time to wait for the next 1219 01:34:45.159 --> 01:34:49.840 edition. Here, here we are in twenty twenty three, where we can 1220 01:34:49.880 --> 01:34:53.960 find out what's going on, you know, right now. So I think 1221 01:34:54.039 --> 01:34:59.159 right off the bat, following the appropriate people on the various social media sites 1222 01:34:59.199 --> 01:35:03.119 of uh, dat stature, stop the leaving start knowing. It's just the 1223 01:35:03.239 --> 01:35:08.920 ability to look at the trends of what's happening in the fire service, uh, 1224 01:35:09.399 --> 01:35:12.079 you know, on the downside of things. Uh. And it's part 1225 01:35:12.119 --> 01:35:16.960 of our profession looking into the line of duty deaths and finding out the factors 1226 01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:23.159 and what was a contributing factor, what commonalities exists. It's readily available through 1227 01:35:23.399 --> 01:35:29.279 uh you know, social media and then eventually through through NIASH reports. I 1228 01:35:29.640 --> 01:35:34.520 have been a fire service instructor for over thirty years, and I think for 1229 01:35:34.640 --> 01:35:40.079 me to stay contemporary and to stay connected to the fire service, I love 1230 01:35:40.199 --> 01:35:44.920 nothing more than being connected to my students through the asking of questions. I 1231 01:35:45.039 --> 01:35:49.880 do company author and keep officer classes and you know, what they are experiencing 1232 01:35:50.039 --> 01:35:54.079 is different from what I experience, and they be able to come together and 1233 01:35:54.159 --> 01:36:00.199 solve problems together and and to stay connected. Is is the my ability had 1234 01:36:00.279 --> 01:36:10.800 been my ability to maintain my skills and my professionalism. Steve. I concur 1235 01:36:10.960 --> 01:36:15.279 with what Tom says as far as uh, I don't. I'm not keeping 1236 01:36:15.319 --> 01:36:16.960 my skills up as I should because I'm not using them anymore. Right, 1237 01:36:17.239 --> 01:36:23.720 I'm not an instructor, but I definitely agree with with the way of keeping 1238 01:36:23.880 --> 01:36:28.199 up is to use the technologies that are available today, which you know he 1239 01:36:28.359 --> 01:36:32.039 talks about. You know, Firehouse magazine. We used to wait for WYF, 1240 01:36:32.159 --> 01:36:35.960 which was quarterly used to come out and uh, you know you look 1241 01:36:36.039 --> 01:36:40.159 for a department order to see if you know, anything had changed and the 1242 01:36:40.279 --> 01:36:44.640 latter bullet and any change that had come down or things like that. Today, 1243 01:36:44.840 --> 01:36:47.520 even the way they study when guys are studying promotion, they're studying off 1244 01:36:47.840 --> 01:36:51.800 a computer and don't off technologies, and uh, you know, just just 1245 01:36:51.960 --> 01:36:56.880 the way it is and every other profession and everything else. It's the technology. 1246 01:36:57.039 --> 01:36:59.319 You got to keep up with the technology to keep what's going on. 1247 01:36:59.800 --> 01:37:04.680 I would just want to add one thing, um uh you said about reading 1248 01:37:04.720 --> 01:37:10.800 about fivefy to deaths One of the things that U in an FDNY is every 1249 01:37:10.800 --> 01:37:15.399 time there's a death, there's a case study done of it. And you 1250 01:37:15.479 --> 01:37:17.479 know, in the last thirty or something years, it takes them almost a 1251 01:37:17.560 --> 01:37:20.159 year to come out with a study, and they do it. And one 1252 01:37:20.199 --> 01:37:26.359 of the things that I always wanted to uh to tell myself and to uh 1253 01:37:27.439 --> 01:37:30.680 to force myself to do was that when you read when when you read these 1254 01:37:30.720 --> 01:37:34.840 studies, they will break down what happened to the far you know, what's 1255 01:37:34.840 --> 01:37:42.319 the cause and you know. And I when they would come out with with 1256 01:37:42.520 --> 01:37:45.680 remedies and then we they would write bulletins and they'd said, all right, 1257 01:37:45.960 --> 01:37:49.439 like and I'm going to use this example. Uh, many of the case 1258 01:37:49.520 --> 01:37:55.600 studies they read, even guys will we either hurt or killed? They found 1259 01:37:55.680 --> 01:38:00.720 that they always lost their helmet during the operation. So hence they came up 1260 01:38:00.720 --> 01:38:05.239 with the chin strap, so you know, um, and that cut down 1261 01:38:05.399 --> 01:38:10.600 it. But my belief was, after I read these case studies, I 1262 01:38:10.720 --> 01:38:15.079 wanted to make sure that any operation I was at, that guys didn't get 1263 01:38:15.159 --> 01:38:21.199 hurt or killed over something that we already had addressed and that we already had 1264 01:38:21.520 --> 01:38:27.159 so called solution in place, and that I didn't want it to be a 1265 01:38:27.239 --> 01:38:30.279 cause that I wasn't going to be. I wasn't you know, it didn't 1266 01:38:30.279 --> 01:38:32.520 have the discipline to make them do these things. I didn't. I never 1267 01:38:32.600 --> 01:38:35.479 wanted it to be like that. I let things go because you know, 1268 01:38:35.880 --> 01:38:39.359 you want to be the bad guy. You don't want to be you know, 1269 01:38:40.239 --> 01:38:43.920 you know, breaking guys, breaking guys balls about the certain things or 1270 01:38:43.920 --> 01:38:46.399 whatever. But like I said, after every time you know, you read 1271 01:38:46.439 --> 01:38:49.680 a case study or something, I'd say, well, you know what, 1272 01:38:50.239 --> 01:38:54.640 no one's gonna get hurt doing that at an operation that I'm in charge of 1273 01:38:55.439 --> 01:38:58.399 and on for Like I say, you do get a lot of resistance and 1274 01:38:58.479 --> 01:39:00.760 it takes it takes discipline to do it, but you know, so be 1275 01:39:00.880 --> 01:39:06.840 it. So maybe like a cheats might be frowned upon. Yeah, yeah, 1276 01:39:08.000 --> 01:39:15.079 yeah, he might say that I have a couple alright, gods, 1277 01:39:15.199 --> 01:39:19.880 go with it, all right. I Um, being in training is u 1278 01:39:20.800 --> 01:39:25.159 it helps you. But more importantly, I think with staying on top of 1279 01:39:25.199 --> 01:39:27.840 your skills, for anybody, whether from the firefighter all the way up, 1280 01:39:27.880 --> 01:39:30.640 it's a it's a mindset you have to want to be and perfect your craft 1281 01:39:30.680 --> 01:39:33.760 at all times. So just staying up on current information, whether it's through 1282 01:39:33.800 --> 01:39:38.239 technology, reading an article, or you're watching videos, because I can't tell 1283 01:39:38.279 --> 01:39:41.960 you how many times I watch videos just to to learn and stay on top 1284 01:39:42.039 --> 01:39:45.159 of things. Or when new information comes out, you have to learn about 1285 01:39:45.199 --> 01:39:47.640 it. Like we talk about EV's. Evs are taking off like crazy right 1286 01:39:47.680 --> 01:39:49.920 now, so we do a lot of kinds of crazy training. So I 1287 01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:54.079 can absorb all that training and end to ghead and delivered to the department to 1288 01:39:54.119 --> 01:39:56.439 make sure that they get it. So these are just a couple of little 1289 01:39:56.479 --> 01:40:00.359 things that the networking, everything that that that's involved with the training aspect of 1290 01:40:00.680 --> 01:40:03.279 any agency. How much you have to learn to maintain your skills. But 1291 01:40:03.560 --> 01:40:05.920 go back to what I said before, it's really on the individual. They 1292 01:40:06.000 --> 01:40:10.000 have to warm to stay sharp. If not, we could sit here and 1293 01:40:10.039 --> 01:40:13.119 then do all this and say it, but owners goes on the individual. 1294 01:40:13.199 --> 01:40:15.960 I want to make sure that the on top of their game at all times. 1295 01:40:17.960 --> 01:40:27.079 All right, Chief Crooker, Hey, well, first of all, 1296 01:40:28.960 --> 01:40:31.960 things have changed. We're talking about it right now. That the modern age 1297 01:40:32.000 --> 01:40:38.640 of technology, if you will, back when they came on and true studying 1298 01:40:39.279 --> 01:40:44.000 for the battalion, chiefs, tenants, captain's engineers, all the way up 1299 01:40:44.039 --> 01:40:49.760 to battalion chief. The books when you stack them on top of each other, 1300 01:40:49.920 --> 01:40:55.840 that was about six feet off of the ground worth of information. You 1301 01:40:55.920 --> 01:41:00.840 know how many milkcake crates of books did we carry around to study and pick 1302 01:41:00.920 --> 01:41:08.479 this information up. Now you click one link on a department website and it 1303 01:41:08.720 --> 01:41:15.239 opens up every possible conceivable piece of information tied into your department. You go 1304 01:41:15.359 --> 01:41:20.479 to a search engine, you could look up anything anywhere anyway you want across 1305 01:41:20.640 --> 01:41:26.920 this country and find information about what you're looking for. So you know, 1306 01:41:27.039 --> 01:41:30.720 at the click of a mouse you could find those things that we could never 1307 01:41:30.880 --> 01:41:35.640 do before. So what do I do to stay current? I don't I 1308 01:41:35.800 --> 01:41:40.800 retire, So that's what I do. Anything with the Fire Service, just 1309 01:41:40.960 --> 01:41:45.159 like Steve, we both do nothing with the Fire Service. However, going 1310 01:41:45.359 --> 01:41:49.760 back something that I like to do. First of all, make a disclaimer 1311 01:41:50.159 --> 01:41:56.439 that there's nothing routine about the Fire Service, nor should they be. We've 1312 01:41:56.560 --> 01:42:00.960 discussed it. I've made this point a couple of times. Tis that complacency 1313 01:42:01.079 --> 01:42:06.279 and thinking things in a routine will get you in a lot of trouble in 1314 01:42:06.800 --> 01:42:13.000 the course of your career. So don't ever get complacent. But what I 1315 01:42:13.159 --> 01:42:17.199 like to do in downtime is I like to try and stay sharp on the 1316 01:42:17.399 --> 01:42:27.760 things that were very low probability, high risk. Stay up on ASTHMAT, 1317 01:42:28.079 --> 01:42:33.920 stay up on active shooter responses, stay up on high rises, and stay 1318 01:42:34.039 --> 01:42:41.600 up on all the special operation disciplines that there are so that when you are 1319 01:42:41.760 --> 01:42:49.279 confronted with those incidents that you rarely deal with, that you can successfully carry 1320 01:42:49.319 --> 01:42:54.079 out that operation. Recognize the dudes, and you're not going to be a 1321 01:42:54.159 --> 01:42:57.239 professional at it. You're you're going to be a professional, but you're not 1322 01:42:57.520 --> 01:43:00.880 expected, so to speak, to know that entire scope of practice. You 1323 01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:08.560 have to recognize all of those different disciplines, be trained to that level of 1324 01:43:08.840 --> 01:43:15.039 response, even though that they are not frequent at all, and recognize what 1325 01:43:15.279 --> 01:43:19.920 you can and you can't do, and recognize the appropriate level or response that 1326 01:43:20.039 --> 01:43:25.239 you're gonna need to get the right people to carry the incident out. And 1327 01:43:25.359 --> 01:43:30.239 that's part of being a manager. You're not going to be one hundred percent 1328 01:43:30.399 --> 01:43:35.279 proficient at everything, but that's why you have a management team or other researchers 1329 01:43:35.319 --> 01:43:41.159 to pull from to meet the goals and objectives and call the right people and 1330 01:43:41.279 --> 01:43:45.439 get the right response and to solve the problem. But in my downtime, 1331 01:43:45.960 --> 01:43:51.319 as I said, I'd like to kind of zoom in and zone in on 1332 01:43:51.520 --> 01:44:01.479 those things that were not frequent but post a big risk that I could understand 1333 01:44:01.560 --> 01:44:06.560 and identifying and keep keep people out of harm's way until the appropriate level of 1334 01:44:06.760 --> 01:44:15.840 response was called for. So Chief Tom, I went already, but I'll 1335 01:44:15.880 --> 01:44:18.479 go again if you we did. Did Gon's go too? That's good? 1336 01:44:18.880 --> 01:44:25.920 Yeah, I guess I didn't want very much. Did you zone out? 1337 01:44:25.960 --> 01:44:30.760 You're not paying attention to That's all right. Maybe the whole thing full of 1338 01:44:30.840 --> 01:44:35.039 vodka, I don't know. I don't know. You are drinking bourbon. 1339 01:44:35.079 --> 01:44:43.760 Don't you to see it? Standard? So I stopped. We had a 1340 01:44:43.840 --> 01:44:46.800 couple more questions that came in that I didn't send, and he came from 1341 01:44:46.840 --> 01:44:49.960 a certain chief who's on the job now, who I might or may not, 1342 01:44:50.279 --> 01:44:54.359 may or may not have worked with as a fineman. He's a shooting 1343 01:44:54.399 --> 01:45:01.199 star. He wants to know why do chiefs have alligator arms? Yes? 1344 01:45:04.279 --> 01:45:14.560 I don't know any more. Damn beer, lot of it? Yes, 1345 01:45:16.760 --> 01:45:24.319 answer that not me. I do arms for chiefs. Negative when I work 1346 01:45:24.359 --> 01:45:26.680 over time, I buy the guys shakes all the way around, of course 1347 01:45:26.840 --> 01:45:30.319 forty five a clip so the no alligator ROMs here? Why what shakes the 1348 01:45:30.399 --> 01:45:34.560 guys like shakes every once in a while shakes? Yea ice cream shakes. 1349 01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:41.720 I make a little run of ice cream. So look at you in their 1350 01:45:41.800 --> 01:45:48.720 packet. The other the other question is from this certain individual that mayor may 1351 01:45:48.800 --> 01:45:54.840 not rhyme with Frank leep is Chief Steve. How do you stay so good 1352 01:45:54.880 --> 01:45:59.920 looking over the years? I disappear with my brother, I look better. 1353 01:46:01.279 --> 01:46:08.119 Stop you're hurting my feelings. Now you really not do this? All right, 1354 01:46:08.199 --> 01:46:12.640 Mike uh, let's play a lesque sponsor of the evening before yes, 1355 01:46:13.199 --> 01:46:16.319 say goodbyes A word now, of course, from our friends over at fr 1356 01:46:16.560 --> 01:46:23.119 CE. The First Responders Center for Excellence is not for profit organization dedicated to 1357 01:46:23.199 --> 01:46:28.359 protecting the lives and livelihoods of first responders. Their education and research initiatives aim 1358 01:46:28.399 --> 01:46:32.359 to bring greater awareness and understanding the challenges to the health, safety and well 1359 01:46:32.399 --> 01:46:36.600 being of firefighters, EMS personnel, and other first responders too. They are 1360 01:46:36.600 --> 01:46:45.760 an affiliate of the National Falling Firefighter Foundation and Tonight's health and safety tip of 1361 01:46:45.840 --> 01:46:50.239 the Evening is early chance of detection Saves lives. Make an annual medical appointment 1362 01:46:50.319 --> 01:46:55.800 today. I'm gonna give you too. There's another one following a fire shower 1363 01:46:55.920 --> 01:47:00.640 as soon as possible before cleaning the tools. The sooner we remove contamination from 1364 01:47:00.680 --> 01:47:05.560 the firefight is the low the exposure. Tool and equipment will never have cancer, 1365 01:47:06.039 --> 01:47:12.119 a firefighter might. So reduce your risk and shout. They say, 1366 01:47:12.159 --> 01:47:18.159 shower within the hour, Shower within the hour. Wow, I actually, 1367 01:47:18.399 --> 01:47:21.680 uh, we actually clean our equipment on the fire scene, now, d 1368 01:47:21.840 --> 01:47:26.399 coon or whatnot. They stressed to clean the tools, clean the hose before 1369 01:47:26.439 --> 01:47:29.960 you pack it because all that shit gets in your your shirt and it sticks 1370 01:47:29.960 --> 01:47:34.159 on you even more sore. There's stressing to clean equipment before you bring it 1371 01:47:34.239 --> 01:47:38.960 back to the station. Shower. I like to thank all four chiefs. 1372 01:47:39.640 --> 01:47:42.880 I like to thank Gonzo's brother, the Smart Brother, for coming on tonight. 1373 01:47:43.600 --> 01:47:46.960 I don't know. Evidently he's a twin brother who's very intelligent. I 1374 01:47:46.960 --> 01:47:49.359 don't know who he is. I don't know about very but I appreciate. 1375 01:47:49.399 --> 01:47:57.479 I'll tell him. Patiate you guys coming on, Uh, Chief Steve, 1376 01:47:57.600 --> 01:47:59.960 make sure you get out there and fillo his ATMs tomorrow. I appreciate. 1377 01:48:00.239 --> 01:48:03.720 Thank you so much. Any Ponting words. Anybody have any shout outs? 1378 01:48:04.000 --> 01:48:10.079 Yeah, I'd like to. Tomorrow is a twelve year anniversary of a line 1379 01:48:10.119 --> 01:48:14.680 of duty guest of two firefighters on our job. I was the instant commander 1380 01:48:14.760 --> 01:48:17.920 out a fire where we've lost Vince Perez and Tony Valerio. So I'd just 1381 01:48:18.039 --> 01:48:25.960 like to raise a glass to Vincent Tony. Remember them book book, Great 1382 01:48:25.960 --> 01:48:28.600 people. I knew them both very well and it was a man. I'm 1383 01:48:28.640 --> 01:48:31.359 gonna give them the five bells if you don't mind, Yes, for Vincent 1384 01:48:31.439 --> 01:48:45.560 Tony. For Vincent Tony. Does that bell sound familiar, Chief Steve? 1385 01:48:46.399 --> 01:48:53.720 Is that the one from pop Yep? That's the one from Pope? Yeah? 1386 01:48:53.760 --> 01:48:58.199 Man allegedly. Allegedly, my mother used to ring it when it was 1387 01:48:58.279 --> 01:49:02.600 time for lunch in the summer time outside our kitchen door. Uh what do 1388 01:49:02.640 --> 01:49:06.359 we have on Monday? We have a inventor's corner, right, We got 1389 01:49:06.439 --> 01:49:10.439 a guy who came up with a really nifty tool. We got that, 1390 01:49:10.760 --> 01:49:16.760 and I think on Thursday we finally have Bobby Bob Stock. He's been he's 1391 01:49:16.760 --> 01:49:21.079 been to a couple of fires. I think he was in one twenty uh 1392 01:49:21.479 --> 01:49:25.439 where else does he rescue too? One up, two, A couple of 1393 01:49:25.439 --> 01:49:29.760 places he saw some fire A couple of them shout out too, if you 1394 01:49:29.800 --> 01:49:32.399 get a chance again, uh two two of them. Actually for us, 1395 01:49:32.880 --> 01:49:38.119 I'd like to acknowledge our new subscribers and anybody's been supporting us for this far. 1396 01:49:38.199 --> 01:49:41.800 We've we've reached over thirty thousand here and on YouTube as right now, 1397 01:49:41.840 --> 01:49:45.720 which which I think is big for us. And one of my brother firefighters 1398 01:49:45.800 --> 01:49:49.359 is retiring. Today's his last tour, Joe Captain Joe Russnello thirty one plus 1399 01:49:49.520 --> 01:49:53.600 years with us, He's on his last tour, so I just wanted to 1400 01:49:53.720 --> 01:49:57.680 wish him will in his retirement for him. Joe what Joe Russonello mean? 1401 01:49:57.880 --> 01:50:01.720 Yeah? Another beginning me. Oh, look at Tom. Sarah Good is 1402 01:50:01.720 --> 01:50:06.640 like yeah, one of my you know, out about it, one of 1403 01:50:06.680 --> 01:50:10.239 my friends. Yeah, you have it a door test kid. Yeah, 1404 01:50:10.319 --> 01:50:13.560 listen, we're at thirty thousand. I'd like to get one hundred thousand brothers. 1405 01:50:13.600 --> 01:50:16.600 And you put that YouTube plaque behind my wall here so to me fairly, 1406 01:50:16.720 --> 01:50:19.439 just life and subscribe. It doesn't Callas brush or anything. Right, 1407 01:50:19.479 --> 01:50:23.079 are you like and subscribe? Yet you subscribe to Chief Steve, You're not 1408 01:50:23.159 --> 01:50:26.920 subscribe. I don't know. Look I think I did. We'll send you 1409 01:50:26.960 --> 01:50:29.199 a link, my own brother, We'll send you a link. Just hit 1410 01:50:29.239 --> 01:50:31.159 the subscribe button. It doesn't question anything. I can't worry about it. 1411 01:50:31.239 --> 01:50:33.359 I know you will. We have shot on, you said, I don't 1412 01:50:33.359 --> 01:50:38.840 know if I have shot up the button. You just do one of these 1413 01:50:38.880 --> 01:50:41.079 and hit the life and subscribe. Run you know what I mean. I'll 1414 01:50:41.079 --> 01:50:44.159 tell you what here. Just scan that right there to scan that. It's 1415 01:50:44.239 --> 01:50:48.800 right there. Just do it right now. Let's see second, Oh, 1416 01:50:50.960 --> 01:50:55.039 let's see. I'll watch my own brothers probably not writing them at the middle 1417 01:50:55.079 --> 01:50:57.720 one. Get the one in the middle. I say that, Just sit 1418 01:50:57.800 --> 01:51:04.399 subscribe all right? You aren't subscribed? Well you did. You helped out 1419 01:51:04.439 --> 01:51:08.600 his brother, chief Mitch. Thanks for coming on, Bro, appreciate it. 1420 01:51:08.760 --> 01:51:13.960 Thanks for having me on the Luffe Coast. I appreciate you coming on. 1421 01:51:15.000 --> 01:51:18.680 Mike, uh gonza. That's it. We'll see you u Monday. 1422 01:51:18.760 --> 01:51:23.159 Roofie should be back. Maybe. I don't know. Thanks talking to you 1423 01:51:23.279 --> 01:51:26.239 gentlemen. I just think you just had a couple of things. Oh, 1424 01:51:26.359 --> 01:51:29.239 Mike, I told just shout outs, go get it all right. So 1425 01:51:30.079 --> 01:51:31.239 the first one I actually wanted to give a shout out to the family of 1426 01:51:31.319 --> 01:51:35.600 police officer Anthony Mosamilo, especially his wife, his widow, Margaret. May 1427 01:51:35.720 --> 01:51:39.439 twenty six mark twenty five years since he was shot and killed in the line 1428 01:51:39.479 --> 01:51:42.439 of duty in Brooklyn. He was a police officer in the sixty seven precinct. 1429 01:51:42.680 --> 01:51:44.960 He died in the gun battle with the Paroli who didn't want to go 1430 01:51:45.039 --> 01:51:48.000 to jail. So twenty five years later, Officer Mosamilo is not forgotten. 1431 01:51:48.039 --> 01:51:50.760 He was a six seven precinct cop, fourteen years in the job. Left 1432 01:51:50.800 --> 01:51:55.199 behind two daughters, but Margaret's done a great job raising them. And Margaret, 1433 01:51:55.520 --> 01:51:57.920 my love and uh and shout out to you this week. And the 1434 01:51:58.000 --> 01:52:00.600 other thing is just real quickly because I know where all was a two hour 1435 01:52:00.720 --> 01:52:02.920 mark yes earlier, I didn't want to talk about it because we were in 1436 01:52:02.920 --> 01:52:05.479 the middle of the show. But after six months on hiatus and Mike the 1437 01:52:05.520 --> 01:52:10.319 Newhaven Podcast is back. We're back on the air this Tuesday at seven pm 1438 01:52:10.399 --> 01:52:15.079 Eastern Standard Time. The first guest back after six months away is Jay Jonas, 1439 01:52:15.159 --> 01:52:19.479 so very much looking forward him. That should be a pleasant conversation and 1440 01:52:19.560 --> 01:52:25.600 I look for se l six. Yeah, Ladder six I think Chief Steve 1441 01:52:25.720 --> 01:52:29.359 on bro I definitely want to and there's a certain chief in the check tonight 1442 01:52:29.359 --> 01:52:31.039 wh will be on the show June thirteenth. I'll leave it there, so 1443 01:52:31.800 --> 01:52:39.239 definitely some good content. Oh fl yes, he's coming back on the show. 1444 01:52:39.279 --> 01:52:41.520 Here had I forget what data is. It's on the twenty second. 1445 01:52:42.039 --> 01:52:44.359 Oh look at Mike, you know all right, knows more to me. 1446 01:52:45.640 --> 01:52:49.439 All right, guys, so we will see you on Monday. Until then, 1447 01:52:49.680 --> 01:52:54.600 stay low and go all right. I'm the half Chief Steve Coopler, 1448 01:52:54.680 --> 01:52:58.039 Tom Sara Goose and Mitch Cruker, Anthony Gonzalas and Vin Cooler and Mike Cologne 1449 01:52:58.079 --> 01:53:00.239 and we we'll see you next time. Weekend. Everybody, stay safe,