1 00:00:07,879 --> 00:00:13,519 Good morning, Mother? Sphere good morning bad, conical sphere of the source. 2 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,960 Welcome to a new episode of Good Morning Mother awaits this podcast in which 3 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,120 we bring you closer to themes, people, issues, challenges, projects, 4 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:33,000 initiatives and books. You know that here we like books that will always give 5 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:39,759 us a different vision, something new, to help us to face this exciting 6 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,960 task of parenting in a better way, a more positive way and, moreover, 7 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,719 a central purpose that these podcasts have is to make you spend some time 8 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:53,600 as entertaining as possible and that, in passing, you learn something. How 9 00:00:53,679 --> 00:00:58,280 is the case that we are dealing with today, that it is a person, 10 00:00:58,439 --> 00:01:00,880 a subject, a question, a project or a cover- up, 11 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:04,719 something that I already knew months ago, but that has been made a little 12 00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:10,359 begging for why life, because things happen and in this case books pass. 13 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,200 Which has arrived in the form of a book, the opportunity to interview Susana 14 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,200 Carmona, whom I will welcome just to start the podcast. Welcome to Susana 15 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:26,640 first, hello Monica. Thank you so much for inviting me, thank you 16 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:32,719 so much for getting close that besides, I know you' re on a 17 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,159 busy schedule, how you' re living this release of your creature. And 18 00:01:34,239 --> 00:01:38,400 of course, it' s up to you to schedule the truth, but 19 00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:42,280 you saved us a little while and I really appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, 20 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,799 not for me a pleasure. I' m actually enjoying it, but 21 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,959 it' s true that it' s like when you have a child that 22 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,400 you think the key moment is childbirth and not then all the interviews also come 23 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,079 and it' s stressful super ines, but at the same time very fun. 24 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,920 It is a crucial moment, because it is in which we have to 25 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:06,840 make known the result of a long time, months, years of work and, 26 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:13,199 in your case, in addition, something that has a significance for what 27 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,080 for our community, in fact, for mothers for fatherhood, for science, 28 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:22,919 that I am very excited to bring here to podcast, because it seems that 29 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:29,319 motherhood is sometimes something of a second, as it is not worth dedicating great 30 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,159 headlines to it. He is given more headlines to a football match than to 31 00:02:34,199 --> 00:02:38,759 maternity issues, and it seems like he always stays at home and suddenly meets 32 00:02:38,759 --> 00:02:47,759 us. All of a sudden I say that we can find that there is 33 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:53,599 relevance and importance to discoveries and scientific works like yours that we are going to 34 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:59,120 talk about now regarding motherhood, in addition to motherhood and pregnancy in the center, 35 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,960 because it is something to celebrate. Susana, first things first, first 36 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,400 things first, yes, yes, the truth. I am also super happy 37 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:09,919 about science, because in society it seems that it mattered little, but on 38 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:15,240 a scientific level it also seems that it has gone completely unnoticed so far, 39 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,719 and I think it has a lot to do also that there are many publishers, 40 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,919 many more women publishers, and that they value these processes that are so 41 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,039 decisive in the life of a human being. What' s his name, 42 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,479 indeed, and now you' ll see a little, what we' re 43 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,639 talking about, but first we' re going to introduce Susana. Susana Carmona, 44 00:03:36,159 --> 00:03:40,080 doctor of psychology and doctor of neuroscience. He has been trained in universities 45 00:03:40,159 --> 00:03:46,560 such as the Unit, the Autonomous University of Barcelona, Columbia University in New 46 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,639 York, in the United States, and Harvard University in Massachusetts, United States. 47 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:57,000 He currently leads the neuromaternal imaging research group at the Gregorio Marañón Hospital in 48 00:03:57,039 --> 00:04:01,000 Madrid. Its main line of study focuses on characterizing brain changes that accompany pregnancy 49 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:09,840 and motherhood. She has led several national and international projects and is the author, 50 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:15,520 in addition to half a hundred scientific publications in high- impact journals, 51 00:04:15,879 --> 00:04:19,120 including Nature Reviews, Nate or Science and Nature Narost, and is the creator 52 00:04:19,199 --> 00:04:24,360 of the account or you can find it on Instagram, which is where everything 53 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:30,759 that happens in the world seems to be, like maternal neurote. There you 54 00:04:30,759 --> 00:04:38,439 can find on his account. But Susana, how wonderful, that pregnancy, 55 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:45,680 that motherhood, that everything comes together, that science is dedicated and gets into 56 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,199 something like this and that, moreover, and this seems to me very important, 57 00:04:49,519 --> 00:04:55,800 that science and the consequences of scientific work and research reach us in the 58 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:04,120 population. So let' s say common general to the people. It is 59 00:05:04,399 --> 00:05:12,319 no longer in the form of a book that is called neuromaternal, that has 60 00:05:12,399 --> 00:05:16,319 published very little without ecuanon and that I celebrate very much, that I had 61 00:05:16,439 --> 00:05:19,560 a lot of desire to read and that I have loved, but with capital 62 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,879 letters. Thank you, thank you very much, Monica. The truth that 63 00:05:23,959 --> 00:05:26,600 makes me very happy to see that you like it and that it is having 64 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,839 so much acceptance of the book, really make me very, very, very 65 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,120 happy. I think that all because in the end, writing a book, 66 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,639 when you are carrying out a laboratory, you have a little girl, it 67 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,720 is an important sacrifice of many weekends and overtime then for me already to see 68 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,839 the reception that it is having and that people like you tell me that you 69 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,240 have loved it, already I am happy, but really happy and listen or 70 00:05:49,319 --> 00:05:53,040 read the comments that you tell me that it has helped you, that you 71 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,079 feel identified, that you have learned a lot, that you learn to see 72 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,560 motherhood with other eyes. Well, it really makes me very, very happy, 73 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:04,120 really. Sincerely, yes, and furthermore, it is a great example 74 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:13,000 of how science should be made accessible, not that there really are many occasions 75 00:06:13,199 --> 00:06:18,399 when we do not know what is being investigated from all the work. What 76 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:25,519 you do in an almost imperceptible way, with great sacrifice and great effort, 77 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,720 and which does not reach us in a tangible way. No, no, 78 00:06:27,639 --> 00:06:30,680 we didn' t find out. Yeah, it was super important to me 79 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,680 because, like in the end, it' s a topic that you want 80 00:06:34,759 --> 00:06:38,639 or doesn' t affect a lot of people and the moment we published something 81 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,519 directly, the press pulled it out, but of course, everyone interpreted it 82 00:06:42,519 --> 00:06:45,560 in a slightly different way. So, for me it was very important to 83 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:53,279 provide my voice about what those brain changes mean, not how long they can 84 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,040 last, if they' re good, if they' re bad at trying 85 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,879 to simplify a lot what happens is that I think I don' t know 86 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,879 if you want me to talk about this right now, but I think it 87 00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:14,480 ' s important that people who have science think or at least it' s 88 00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:17,959 the work they did when they' re writing, which is very difficult to 89 00:07:18,519 --> 00:07:19,279 be, super accurate to keep you to a very, very, very, 90 00:07:19,279 --> 00:07:20,000 very detailed standard and make that easy to understand. Then, in the end, 91 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,720 you always have to play a little bit with simplicity, but at the 92 00:07:24,759 --> 00:07:28,000 same time not to simplify too much, but to do it, because interesting 93 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,000 and understandable. Of course, if not, I don' t think it 94 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,759 ' s very important. Yeah, it' s an argument I had constantly 95 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,279 while I was writing the book. I didn' t have like the scientific 96 00:07:36,279 --> 00:07:40,279 society I was saying. But this is, but the other one is osana, 97 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,839 which is good. We will explain this and then, from a base 98 00:07:42,879 --> 00:07:46,720 we are already building and putting, because more details, but we have to 99 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,319 give a basis of what happens and whoever wants to know more can go to 100 00:07:49,319 --> 00:07:53,680 scientific journals and who wants to stay at that level, unless it has that 101 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,639 level. Yes, because, in addition, if we talk about this a 102 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,519 lot during the pandemic, especially where it became very manifest or good, in 103 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:07,759 the pandemic and in any event or situation in which it takes a little bit, 104 00:08:07,399 --> 00:08:11,759 there is this demand for scientific knowledge of the general population, where knowing 105 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,199 that it is a trial how it works, for example, the difference between 106 00:08:18,199 --> 00:08:24,360 viruses and bacteria, for example, remember when I did how difficult it was 107 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,519 to stay. This doesn' t extend through the air. There' s 108 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,759 no spread of that contagion. There is such confusion many times and we have, 109 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:37,320 as a general rule, a level of scientific literacy. Well, that 110 00:08:37,639 --> 00:08:43,720 way, of course, science has become so specialized that it' s impossible. 111 00:08:45,639 --> 00:08:50,159 So it' s impossible to know a little bit about everything that you 112 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,840 can handle, but to get to a language so precise that in the end 113 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,440 you don' t understand. And then I also think that when you really 114 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,879 understand a phenomenon, you' re able to explain it very easily. Well, 115 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,080 that' s the hard part for me. That' s the kid 116 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,960 of the question. Yeah, maybe, I don' t know. I 117 00:09:07,039 --> 00:09:11,279 believe that when you already in pricipio do not understand things very well, because 118 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:16,120 you stay in an aspheus, but when you really internalize them, it is 119 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:22,799 much easier to explain them with examples and, in your case, besides that 120 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:33,360 you speak of going already, in particular, to the book of a phenomenon 121 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,639 that every pregnant mother and already after having given birth and in the postpartum, 122 00:09:39,159 --> 00:09:46,159 that phenomenon that envelops us and that is characterized by that omnesia that has been 123 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:54,039 called to that feeling that we have internalized, because I the first I have 124 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,120 internalized it. I' ve always lost I said that after the pregnancies r 125 00:09:58,279 --> 00:10:03,440 n r d u n more. Not all of them are, I mean, 126 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,759 we' ve grown up with that. You' ve really grown up 127 00:10:05,759 --> 00:10:07,639 with that. And yes, yes, yes, all of us, I 128 00:10:07,759 --> 00:10:11,200 mean, we' ve all grown up with that idea. Then see a 129 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:16,399 little bit of all the layers that can be biologically, what cause are behind 130 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,679 that, psychologically, socially, that I think is very important and many times 131 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,879 this confirmation bias is obvious, because it allows us to see it from a 132 00:10:24,919 --> 00:10:31,279 distance and, above all, to cool a little that when some moms have 133 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,840 to learn a lot of things and with a speed and besides, very important 134 00:10:35,879 --> 00:10:43,000 things, because it depends on them that a human being survives. So seeing 135 00:10:43,039 --> 00:10:46,639 a little bit of this other face that' s always hidden, like it 136 00:10:46,639 --> 00:10:52,080 ' s given, as a matter of fact, it' s not important 137 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,000 to regulate your emotions. It also seems to me a super, super difficult 138 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,840 task that your brain has to learn to regulate its emotions and say now you 139 00:10:58,919 --> 00:11:03,279 want to sleep. But now you' re not going to sleep, because 140 00:11:03,639 --> 00:11:07,600 now this is brain work, huge, huge, but we keep the anecdote, 141 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,559 and that happens a lot on maternity issues. Don' t keep the 142 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:16,879 anecdote, with the pseudoscience. That is why I think it was important to 143 00:11:16,919 --> 00:11:22,080 bring it closer from a scientific point of view and to explain it easily, 144 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,919 but scientists. And furthermore, it is exapaciously because the book, in addition 145 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:30,879 to telling us the conclusions to which you are coming, because, as we 146 00:11:31,039 --> 00:11:35,799 already know, this is progressing every day and science every day has new things 147 00:11:35,799 --> 00:11:39,919 to say. But we are going to accompany you on this journey in which 148 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:46,639 you have embarked us with this book, in how you have been carrying out 149 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,440 this whole project. You have made us see, from your most personal point 150 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:56,559 of view, what it has meant for you of how you get to that 151 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,399 idea, how you come up with it, where it comes from. It 152 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,039 ' s not very interesting, because it' s very impressive. Nor is 153 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:09,039 it usually seen on that side, more of the headlines of a discovery, 154 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,120 of a finding, of that fact, that, indeed, the brain changes 155 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:20,000 during pregnancy and not precisely for evil that we do not lose attitudes. Yeah, 156 00:12:20,159 --> 00:12:24,519 that' s what cost you the most of this whole process, because 157 00:12:24,879 --> 00:12:26,399 look, that' s what I' ve fought with myself the most, 158 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,080 because deep down I love being with people, but I' m a shy 159 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,279 dick and it gives me a little bit of exposure. Then I was afraid 160 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:37,960 to expose myself. But it was impossible to talk about motherhood and not talk 161 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:45,919 about it. And I think, on the other hand, that connecting with 162 00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:50,399 people from the most human point of view helps to accompany you in the process. 163 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,279 Not that I said, because I put on the literature and made a 164 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:58,519 longitudinal cut design is that it really went out like that, it came out 165 00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:01,320 with a conversation. Then everyone can accompany and feel identified in this process that 166 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:07,799 of creating a scientific idea and seeing that in the end, because almost the 167 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:16,960 best ideas arise from personal interest and conversations outside the laboratory. Then in the 168 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:22,639 lab they profile. But many, many ideas are born of very personal stories 169 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:28,519 and above all I am seeing it a lot in female researchers. There are 170 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:35,159 very good women researchers who are studying the effects of hormonal treatments or oral contraceptives, 171 00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:41,960 because they have had problems when the work makes the dose or some mental 172 00:13:43,039 --> 00:13:48,639 disturbance related to them. I' m sorry I' m an ambulance, 173 00:13:48,519 --> 00:13:50,120 but I don' t know if you can hear it. But then, 174 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:56,919 of course, she has won, yes or for example, women researchers who 175 00:13:56,919 --> 00:14:01,960 have struggled to be diagnosed in the methosis or women who have later found themselves 176 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:07,480 in the phase. That is, they all come from a personal interest or 177 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,799 a personal history, and that makes science go beyond a job. We' 178 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,720 re all very much involved. A lot of sorority among the researchers who are 179 00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:22,320 now leading this Woman' s Braine Health to be able to make further progress 180 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,799 on these issues. And so is mine. On the one hand, the 181 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,639 research came from a personal anecdote. But then it' s impossible to talk 182 00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:33,080 about motherhood without talking about your motherhood. He' s sneaking in. He 183 00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:37,080 ' s sneaking in. He' s sneaking in and at first I tell 184 00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:41,639 you he' s pretty clean and then I say look it' s done, 185 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,440 if that' s what comes out of me, then he' s 186 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:48,120 gonna stay there. And this, to the point of what you comment, 187 00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:52,360 that now what is being researched around women, thanks in part because you are 188 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:58,799 many women there that has made it possible for me to do just now has 189 00:14:58,799 --> 00:15:03,600 been able to reach, for example, your research, the research that you 190 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:09,600 are calling also on your team, since now we can suddenly be talking about 191 00:15:09,799 --> 00:15:16,840 menstruation, menopause, process, osis, megally processes, because what has happened 192 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:22,879 that we get to that situation, Well, in fact, what has happened 193 00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:28,000 is that many clinical trials had been done only in names, many diagnoses were 194 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:37,320 made based on symptoms in men. And that, in the end, then, 195 00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:41,480 has caused women, because heart attacks in women cannot be correctly identified that 196 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,159 some drugs had to be removed from the market, and that caused Elena IGE, 197 00:15:46,759 --> 00:15:52,440 the National Institute of Heal, to create a mandate that forced women to 198 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:58,320 be included in clinical trials and forced not only to include them, but also 199 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:07,919 to evaluate gender differences as they were evaluating them. Why this is important, 200 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,120 then, because in the end our body communicates with our brain through nerves, 201 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,720 but also through molecules, which are the hormones that travel through the bloodstream, 202 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:22,399 informing the different organs how to function. And the cycle of women is different 203 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,799 from that of men. And this does not only affect the ovaries, but 204 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,120 affects the whole body. We have estrogen receptors in the heart, we have 205 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,679 estrogen receptors in the brain and during pregnancy, because the placenta is created and 206 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:42,039 starts releasing estrogens there. Pointed clear shovel. If we don' t evaluate 207 00:16:42,799 --> 00:16:48,320 that, we' re leaving half the population behind, specifically ours, half 208 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:52,600 the women. And as a result of that mandate, other mandates have begun. 209 00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:53,919 I mean, this is what we' ve been forced to do, 210 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:56,519 we' ve been forced to put them in experiments. I don' t 211 00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:02,600 know if you remember in a part of the book in which I mention that 212 00:17:03,679 --> 00:17:07,519 even I, at the beginning of my doctorate, didn' t include girls 213 00:17:07,559 --> 00:17:11,920 measuring you from h that is a disorder, attention tefitil disorder that isn' 214 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:18,119 t even at the age of having hormonal cycles of menstruation, but we excluded 215 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,960 them because it was normal, it' s that studying the human being, 216 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:27,000 standard, which is the man you see And then, luckily, this now 217 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:32,920 because it' s reversing and now there' s every time I guess it 218 00:17:33,079 --> 00:17:34,839 ' s because there are more and more women in positions, not in research 219 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:41,119 that has always been, but in positions of leading research groups that decide which 220 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,319 phenomena are interesting to study. And I think you see it with other eyes. 221 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,200 Of course pregnancy is interesting to study, of course menopaus is interesting to 222 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:55,559 study. And we all know that not only from neck down, that at 223 00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,119 the level of emotional regulation, of concentration capacity is often related to these hormonal 224 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:07,680 fructations, so we need to evaluate it with this gender perspective. It' 225 00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:14,000 s just when I read that part of the book Casualities of Life, I 226 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:21,119 was seeing a controversy on other social networks, on Twitter here or like now 227 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,559 and on omail panels, and people who were very angry about complaining about men, 228 00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:33,799 they felt that there didn' t have to be mandatory parity in talks, 229 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:41,839 conferences, etc. And I was just reading at the same time what 230 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,839 you were saying and of course until he wasn' t forced. I' 231 00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:56,359 m sure how many people didn' t consider it necessary to examine or evaluate 232 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,720 from another perspective look at animal models. Normally in medicine, the roles are 233 00:18:59,839 --> 00:19:03,720 used, the rats, because so calm they said we will study only males, 234 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:10,599 because of course, the females have the fruits of the menstrual cycle that 235 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,559 they call it and then they are too variable. The first problem represents reality, 236 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,799 because if they are variable and have an effect, we should study them. 237 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,759 Second problem that has been found later studies have shown that in men the 238 00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:26,240 behavior is much more variable than in females, that is, in males, 239 00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:27,759 it is much more variable than in females. Only the variation, instead of 240 00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:33,599 going in this menstrual cycle, in rodents, is daytime, that is, 241 00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:38,599 varies much more per day. That is, that the excuse they had to 242 00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:45,799 exclude females from clinical trials is not even held clear now and that within a 243 00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:48,200 while, I don' t think so, forgiveness doesn' t go on 244 00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:52,880 and that within a while and that I mean that everything is evolving and that 245 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:59,400 what is now being considered and, for example, taking as a comparison in 246 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,480 the subject of talks and presentations, are masculine that use the moment that there 247 00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:07,759 are only the best and the ones that have to be. It is not 248 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,000 obligatory to mind a woman because yes, well, within a time it will 249 00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:17,160 be considered otherwise and it will be looked at with other eyes and it will 250 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:22,119 be understood that what does not become visible, does not become evident, is 251 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,720 not studied and does not exist. It' s as simple as that if 252 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,200 they name and exist exactly. We now have a collaboration with a very good 253 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,359 researcher in which she gave a lot of her name is Emily Jacobs, who 254 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,400 is in the United States. In fact, Magdalena, who was my PhD 255 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,000 student, is leaving in very little. They leave very little two years to 256 00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:47,079 work with her and this girl did this researcher, They did a study about 257 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,440 neuroimage, because they showed how they had grown in the number of studies in 258 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,279 neuroimage over the last few years, and it was a brutal growth. They 259 00:20:57,319 --> 00:21:00,680 saw as a percentage, for example, in a comparison of a percentage of 260 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:07,000 studies that have evaluated processes that affect men and women as the reinforcement, for 261 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:11,960 all, of all studies, only zero, as five percent. I was 262 00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:18,200 focused on evaluating all the hormonal processes a woman goes through, whether it' 263 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:23,000 s giving birth control hormones, meno pausia, pregnancy, menstrual cycle, just 264 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:30,359 a zero with five percent. Is that ridiculous? It' s ridiculous, 265 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,559 and we see that now, but I' m telling you, I was 266 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,240 the first one to say ah not just guys, because if not, then 267 00:21:37,519 --> 00:21:41,160 the variability between girls, because it' s a video and also, the 268 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,920 symptoms. I don' t know when you' re there with those glasses, 269 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,400 you don' t see, of course, no, no, it 270 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:53,039 ' s not and it' s logical, but that' s there and 271 00:21:53,039 --> 00:22:02,839 before we talked about your book and it' s good that I personally liked 272 00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:11,079 it a lot for one because even to many demands and conversations that mothers, 273 00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:15,200 in particular, we bring to collection very often as claims that have still been, 274 00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:21,640 because that issues of visibility of women, of visibility of motherhood, of 275 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:22,119 historical issues, of visibility also at the scientific level. And then I also 276 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:29,119 thought as I read about what it means to be a woman and a mother 277 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,279 by investigating that you also talk about it in the book and that it also 278 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,599 seems very interesting to me, as you also talk about what it has cost 279 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:44,079 you, what it costs to be a mother and to have a team in 280 00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:48,240 charge to develop an investigation, the precariousness that exists that is also known, 281 00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:52,319 so it seems to me that your book brings together a lot of pieces, 282 00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:56,240 of a super interesting puzzle and that it is worth knowing the whole audience, 283 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,680 that is not heard and the precariousness in science is shameful. Be embarrassing, 284 00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:07,279 and I think that when you live in your little parcell, you don' 285 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,920 t realize that much, but when you go out and collaborate with other international 286 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,480 groups and explain to them, that is, to get an idea, I 287 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:19,519 think that nothing happens because I say this, but we' ve had so 288 00:23:19,519 --> 00:23:23,440 many problems to get a project refunded. What a license plate is called a 289 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:30,279 Congress that hasn' t given it away, that is, it' s 290 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,319 been like we gave it away, because you can' t. There' 291 00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:34,640 s kind of a distrust that we' re going to do something in trouble, 292 00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:37,720 because we have to file a bill. But besides, the bill has 293 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,640 to be silly. My goodness and we have been told look poor Spanish, 294 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:48,920 or we reveal it, but it is hard And that when you go talking 295 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,799 every time I already tell you that this, in the end, this research 296 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:59,039 is very international and we do not carry it out very much with the United 297 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,440 States, Canada, Europe, and there are times that I explain to you 298 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:03,640 things that are not believed in that, you cannot believe it. I mean, 299 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,240 here we are, and obviously, there are worse countries, and I 300 00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:15,160 can' t complain because under all the circumstances, because I' m privileged 301 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,839 because I have a group, I have some wonderful people working with me, 302 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,000 I have support, but yes, it' s a very sad situation. 303 00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:25,799 Then it was also impossible that he didn' t seculate that while writing. 304 00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:30,559 Of course in the end, I' ve been doing a lot since I 305 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,799 realized it' s the second book I follow. But first I was purely 306 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,160 scientific of a thesis that I did not and I have realized that if I 307 00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:42,319 want to write, write from the purest sincerity and emotion, because if it 308 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:51,119 is not mentras the blockages and I put myself in scientific way that is inaccessible 309 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,759 clearly honeycomb I will tell you that, from my humble point of view as 310 00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:56,000 a reader, it works in the best way. It' s true that 311 00:24:56,039 --> 00:25:00,599 there are parts that are yourself. What you say hear this part if you 312 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:06,039 want to know how the brain corpo works, how everything is connected, but 313 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,759 hear that and you specify it and then it depends on the interest of each 314 00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:14,599 reader. But it is true that it is impossible not to connect not with 315 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,839 experience and more so, telling things as universal as those you narrate, because, 316 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:26,319 as we said at the beginning, every mother or practically anyone has gone 317 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,559 through something like this and we see it as we said, we have internalized 318 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,880 it that I do not know if this book will serve their anas. If 319 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,759 anyone has already told you to go to the Chief' s table and say 320 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,240 I want a raise that looks at everything I' m doing ten percent more. 321 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:48,480 Thank you. I see it, I talk. I see him as 322 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,839 a man, for I am a standard- bearer of the head. A 323 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:56,240 hard science doctor doesn' t say it anymore I don' t say it 324 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,640 anymore That' s fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, look, 325 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,559 I hope it was for something the truth, that is, I think 326 00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:06,559 it' s good to at least see it in perspective, to get out 327 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:07,599 a little bit, like seeing it from above and saying this is happening to 328 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:11,640 me. This is why and just don' t let us drag, because 329 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,440 in the end you let yourself be dragged by the day to day by your 330 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:15,599 emotions. Then see it a little from above and say good. It' 331 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,240 s just this is why, and if I want to, I can' 332 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:21,079 t control it a little bit, why. And if I don' t 333 00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:22,279 want to control it, I don' t have to control it. Of 334 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,000 course I don' t know if maybe the audience I, as I' 335 00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:30,000 ve already read it to myself Spoilers friends, no less, yes, but 336 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:37,119 it' s true that the core of the matter is that, as we 337 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,000 said at the beginning, we know because we' ve all experienced manifes, 338 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,599 or I don' t want to generalize everything, but practically those changes that 339 00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:45,599 we live in that we think we' re not going to come back in. 340 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,720 I thought I wasn' t going to read a book again in my 341 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,480 life, I wasn' t able to concentrate it loses in memory apart from 342 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,640 hair. But that' s another issue, because I ran out of hair. 343 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,319 But pregnancy and childbirth, that is, and having a child changes your 344 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:07,359 body in a brutal, brutal way. And besides, in the last few 345 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,759 years or decades, we thought, I mean, having a child was the 346 00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:14,720 way it came, you have a child and now you can go back to 347 00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:15,960 work and you' re still the same woman. You' re still the 348 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,799 same person. No one warns you of all the changes, not only physiological, 349 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,599 but psychological, hormonal, social changes that come over you, labor and 350 00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:33,240 of course, the beating is brutal. And if you also think that happens 351 00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:36,960 to you, of course, that too I think helps us a little to 352 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,440 see that it is something very universal, that is, that it is not 353 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:45,640 oysters I do not come to ro because society is not that it is very 354 00:27:45,759 --> 00:27:52,400 difficult to reach everything with the level of demand that we put on all women, 355 00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:56,160 it is not just you. So I also think it' s important 356 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,160 to see that it' s a universal process that affects us all. At 357 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,160 the moment I have not found any mom who has told me a little bit 358 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:07,000 of logistical adaptations, but pretty much the same almost everyone who I have asked 359 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,039 speaks of it as a very transformative event, of rediscovering itself as moms and 360 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:17,720 as women the people who have not heard us I want. I invite, 361 00:28:17,759 --> 00:28:19,279 of course, everyone who listens to us, everyone, to take the book. 362 00:28:21,319 --> 00:28:25,519 But maybe there are those who raise an eyebrow and say uff we are 363 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:33,519 already with the theories that it is that biologists, not that we are all 364 00:28:33,599 --> 00:28:40,359 dominated by our body and there is no further. This you develop in the 365 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,880 book. But they' ve come to ask you directly. How many times 366 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:51,200 yes, that is to say, when I started writing the book, I 367 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,519 knew because I had already done some, I had already published some scientific article 368 00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:57,039 and I know that people are going to take it to its end and that 369 00:28:57,079 --> 00:29:02,599 one beech can use it to defend one thing or another and also to attack. 370 00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:07,200 If you want to attack. Then already, when I wrote it, 371 00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:11,640 I already had this in my head and knew that I could spend the moment 372 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,400 with the book. I have not been told, but because I believe that 373 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,319 in the book I make it clear and if not, I take advantage of 374 00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:21,599 the interviews to make it clear that I have. I mean, I know 375 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,039 I' m studying the smallest onion captain in the brain, but I know 376 00:29:26,079 --> 00:29:30,160 that in the brain, and less in humans, it' s not isolated. 377 00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:33,200 I mean, we' re living a couple, in a family, 378 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,000 with a society, with laws. For me not everything is biology, that 379 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,160 is, biology is mass, but this mass is going to adapt, receive 380 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,759 information and send information to the outside. All we do, that is, 381 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,680 cerebral plasticity, is that, cerebral plasticity, is the ability to adapt to 382 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:56,279 the brain and both internal and external pressures. So, I have that very 383 00:29:56,359 --> 00:30:00,559 clear. I don' t think it' s a person and anyone who 384 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,480 knows me is not a person who believes that a mental pathology is unique to 385 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,839 a neurotransmitter. I don' t think that life history, everything that has 386 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,480 happened to you and the moment when you find the socio- economic touch, 387 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,759 the essential of the one you live, the pressures, the precariousness of work. 388 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,759 Well, I' ve got it very clear, very clear, and 389 00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:21,000 I' m dedicated to neuroscience because it' s my little parcell, and 390 00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:21,519 I think it' s important to study it, but I don' t 391 00:30:21,519 --> 00:30:22,400 think it' s the cause of everything. In fact, it bothers me 392 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,359 a little when I read a scientific study says, because I think that science 393 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:32,759 is often interpreted as a dogma and it is like the new religion for me 394 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,079 that I do science, because a scientific study says little to me unless they 395 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,839 replicate it with another sample that sees very good statistical values, but today, 396 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,359 you can say a scientific study says and says to me what is worth is 397 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,880 accumulated science. That which is replicated is that you do it wherever you do 398 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:56,400 it in the United States, in Europe it always comes the same, I 399 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,799 do it or Emil Jacobs does it in the United States. For me that 400 00:30:59,799 --> 00:31:04,160 ' s what I am and I know that just because I' m science, 401 00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:10,519 I don' t have to mean that I have to be constantly tested 402 00:31:10,519 --> 00:31:11,599 and I put it to the test. I' m not in love with 403 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,599 this is what happens and I' m going to keep it, because that 404 00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:17,759 ' s what happens. I want to know what' s going on and 405 00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:19,319 I' m going to test it using the scientific method, and there are 406 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,359 times that it gives me the reason and there are times that it doesn' 407 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,079 t give it to me later, because yes, maybe it wasn' t 408 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,880 your question directly, but I already used not to put yes, yes, 409 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:30,279 I think it' s great. Besides that. In fact, that works 410 00:31:30,359 --> 00:31:36,119 well for us to confirm, because we need to know how to read about 411 00:31:36,119 --> 00:31:40,400 science as well. And when we read in the media or report the media 412 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,839 itself, how much weight we give to such news, such a study, 413 00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:52,599 because studies and news about every day, every day and of course, you 414 00:31:52,759 --> 00:32:00,640 use the same study can be used to defend a cause and to defend the 415 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:04,200 opposite is very yes. Okay. There' s a part, when I 416 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,759 talk about the brain, that in the end we think we' re rational 417 00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:14,039 beings with emotions, but we' re not emotional beings that we' re 418 00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:14,599 looking for arguments to make it clear that we' re reacting, you as 419 00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:20,079 a psychologist. Besides, you know that and you talk about it too and 420 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,000 that we have those biases. How our brain works, how it works, 421 00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:27,640 and how the environment, in addition, influences a lot. And in motherhood 422 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,200 there is also, because, as soon as we begin to talk about how 423 00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:37,799 the brain works in motherhood, that run room arises, not from how it 424 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:44,759 seems that we are united or behind biology or like it' s tyrannical biology 425 00:32:44,839 --> 00:32:52,880 and we are women tied to our instincts, while, perhaps, we should 426 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:58,960 reveal ourselves in front of them to free ourselves as women. It always arises 427 00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:01,400 with these themes, but it is true that You in the book, you 428 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,920 approach it in a super respectful way and, besides, as you well say, 429 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,519 always respecting that there is the influence of the environment to the influence of 430 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,440 the environment, that contexts matter, that the social matters greatly in human recres. 431 00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:20,799 I mean, I' ve even been thinking about making some chapters about 432 00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:23,279 instinct. No, because that' s true, it' s a theme 433 00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:27,960 of how you interpret what instinct means. I leave it for the next one 434 00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:34,920 there, but I have an opinion. I think he calls you can name 435 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,559 him whatever you want, because in the end, in science we often say 436 00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:40,119 if I name him. I get it, but no, but call it 437 00:33:40,119 --> 00:33:50,319 instinct, impulse, call it what you want, but someone has to sacrifice 438 00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:54,799 their needs and desires at a certain time to prioritize them from someone who, 439 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,440 if he doesn' t, dies. It is the basis for placental mammals 440 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:02,880 to be in the layer of the earth. Then we can modulate instincts. 441 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,239 Of course we can' t modulate and the human being can perfectly mature them, 442 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,320 if you can go on a hunger strike if you don' t want 443 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,519 to. But the regions that control maternal behavior and please, don' t 444 00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:19,639 get me wrong, control. I know we can reinforce or inhibit them, 445 00:34:20,039 --> 00:34:23,480 because we have a huge crust in humans, but they are the same ones 446 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:29,400 that control hunger, thirst, sleep, are basic functions for the survival of 447 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,239 the individual and the species. Then you can say or regulate them and say 448 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,840 in the society I live in. I can' t put this into practice 449 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,559 because I don' t subsist or because it' s not the best thing 450 00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:42,400 for even my baby, that what I want is the best for my baby, 451 00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:45,519 but with that society that we have set up for me maybe, what 452 00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:46,639 ' s born to me is not the best. Or yes, or what 453 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,719 ' s born of me is the best. And I' m gonna get 454 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,159 past the rest of it. Everything is very complicated there, but for me 455 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,719 there is something we can call instinct or whatever makes baby survival and well- 456 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,920 being a priority for us at some point. And this we see very normal 457 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:08,360 in humans. Perhaps we call attention when we see a rat that ignores or 458 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,800 attacks the young, but that at the time of being a mother, it 459 00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:15,000 seems to him the most repetitive and most important thing to safeguard the world and 460 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:19,639 that you to that rat that has not gone through a pregnancy, you inject 461 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,119 hormones simulating a pregnancy and, suddenly, its behavior changes and passes and happens 462 00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:28,760 to behave maternally. So there' s a biological part. It' s 463 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,320 clear to me. Clearly, it' s not the only one, let 464 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:36,559 alone humans. In fact, you also mention that it seems to me a 465 00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:45,280 very important point, because I couldn' t help but remember active mothers, 466 00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:47,960 those women who do the role of mother or even will be fathers, and 467 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,000 that seems fundamental to me. Yeah, yeah, totally me. At the 468 00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:57,960 end of the book I dedicate the book to my daughter, but also to 469 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,760 my partner, because I know that many times and especially when you are writing 470 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:06,639 in the book, for he has been almost the primary caregiver, many for 471 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,880 a long time, because I was super involved writing the book. Then I 472 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,840 don' t believe at all that parents don' t have to get involved, 473 00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:15,679 because they don' t have biology. Not at all. Please, 474 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,599 that I don' t use it clearly and with what you comment that you 475 00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:25,320 are studying it, truth that as for non- biological mothers, but a 476 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,320 little bit we give for whoever we are and that I don' t know 477 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:36,159 what to leave with that question of the instinct that is sometimes used against them, 478 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:38,760 not as yes, yes, yes, yes, well, thank you, 479 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:44,360 Monica, because so you allow me to also clarify it, just as 480 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,840 I say that the sisters of gestation make that embe I am already talking about 481 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,920 animal models make the breeding the most relevant for the mother and that the mother 482 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,880 immediately feels attracted by her and wants to safeguard and protect and care for her. 483 00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:01,320 We also know from animal models that exposure little by little to the offspring 484 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:07,840 is able to facilitate and maintain maternal behavior in animals that have not gone through 485 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,039 a pregnancy alone that is a procium, is a more L- till then 486 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,960 how gestation. What it does is that reaction is fast, because the baby 487 00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:15,719 needs to be taken care of already from minute one. Someone has to be 488 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,920 in love with the baby or at least if you don' t want to 489 00:37:21,039 --> 00:37:23,599 call him in love or as a baby- centered person, and then she 490 00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:27,800 takes care of the rest, they' re wonderful and they' re able 491 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,840 to get laid and of course, you need interaction. If not this interaction, 492 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:31,880 I mean, maybe, maybe those dads who say good this is from 493 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:37,079 the mother. If you don' t have the interaction, the baby can 494 00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:39,559 ' t exercise its power. It' s the contact, the day- 495 00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:43,719 to- day interaction with the baby that' s going to try to forgive. 496 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,239 No, no, nothing. It' s just that they' re 497 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,840 coming at me. I remember things as you go talking because I was thinking, 498 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:58,440 for example, about how those mothers, for example, who reject their 499 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,519 children. Or, for example, is that before mother ferret. We have 500 00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:07,679 heard many testimonies on many occasions because with the topic of motherhood there is a 501 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:12,880 civic motherhood that must also be demystified, because not all the mother, because 502 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:21,159 she is mothers, do good for her creatures and how clear there are times 503 00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:28,039 that this argument the brain has changes that seek the survival of the creature and 504 00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:32,360 its good and its protection. And just when it doesn' t happen like 505 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,880 that, what happened to his brain. Yeah, I think the first thing 506 00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:40,000 is that always the hundred that we' re talking about an average, not 507 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,199 that there are extremes on one side of the other. These extremes can come 508 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,239 from multiple factors, not only biological, as I say, but also social, 509 00:38:49,039 --> 00:38:52,440 previous experiences, not experiences in raising other studies. We know that the 510 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:59,119 early years are very vital to optimize that bonding circuit and that it will also 511 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:04,840 be the same one that will be activated when you are mom this social circuit, 512 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,920 to put it in a way. What happens, for example, in 513 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:14,800 people who end up with postpartum depression, as it is also a multifactorial aspect. 514 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,320 We can' t just consider the brain. The experience on the part 515 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,840 is important, the previous history, is important, hormonal sensitivity. We know 516 00:39:22,199 --> 00:39:29,199 that women who have more sensitivity, menstrual cycles, or pre- monthly depression 517 00:39:29,199 --> 00:39:32,480 syndrome are at greater risk after having postpartum depression. I mean, it' 518 00:39:32,519 --> 00:39:38,159 s a multifactor construct. And then I want to desidealize a little that when 519 00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:43,440 I say falls in love with the baby, you can call it love, 520 00:39:44,639 --> 00:39:46,880 but that you have is a motivation, a desire, a need to be 521 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,239 in touch that you sometimes don' t enjoy. That is, when we 522 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,920 talk about this mesolimbic circuit of energetic param, we can visualize it also as 523 00:39:54,320 --> 00:40:00,599 the one that activates when you are addicted to something that sometimes you don' 524 00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:07,679 t even enjoy when it arrives, but you have that need to be in 525 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,800 contact that sometimes translates into pleasure and sometimes not then. Many times, many 526 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,039 moms are waiting to fall in love, not then. Since I want to 527 00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:17,960 get the baby, I already feel love and no. No. I think 528 00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:22,639 it is a simplification that we scientists sometimes do, because to explain very complicated 529 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,400 things, such as dopamine release, which motivates action towards a particular object. 530 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,039 In this circuit, for me it translates more into a desire, a motivation 531 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:43,039 than a pleasure for itself. It' s just so complicated. I mean, 532 00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:47,639 it seems like very simple, but of course, in the end there 533 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:52,679 are so many experiences and something that you commented, for example, about childbirth, 534 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,320 not the experience of childbirth, how the type of childbirth that you have 535 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:04,039 had influences and how that birth has been, how it will influence that development, 536 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,440 also that brain transformation that we are going to suffer mothers. Yeah, 537 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:15,239 I also think it helps a lot to see that we' re talking about 538 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,039 brains. But no one doubts that during a pregnancy, a grizzly and a 539 00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:22,320 postpartum, your body becomes whole. That' s right, so there' 540 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:28,960 s a lot of non- data and whole manuals of exact exttritia psychology, 541 00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:30,840 but for example, you pump almost fifty more percent of blood. It' 542 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:37,119 s a beastly transformation that changes your skin color. I had no idea about 543 00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:39,000 this, when it happened to him, and look at the motherhood, but 544 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:44,880 suddenly I grew my foot possible to us. I mean, there' s 545 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:51,039 a lot of changes in the whole body, because in the end there' 546 00:41:51,199 --> 00:41:52,760 s a new organ that secretes some new molecules, because the whole body, 547 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,320 including the brain, is going to have to function in a different homeostatic state, 548 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,119 that is, it' s going to have to function in different parameters, 549 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:05,199 because if not another one human being, can' t have someone genetically 550 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,800 different from him inside the body. I' d attack him, because the 551 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,199 immune system would say this is bad. Then the whole body has to adapt, 552 00:42:12,679 --> 00:42:16,480 the whole body and the brain too. And these adaptations, because they 553 00:42:16,519 --> 00:42:20,880 are different, that is, the needs of the mother and the baby are 554 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:27,360 different when you are gestating, when you have to give birth and then during 555 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,840 the postpartum period. So, if we understand this, it is easier to 556 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,800 understand the separate importance or the separate contribution of each of these processes. They 557 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,280 are different at the immune level, at the hormonal level, at the environmental 558 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,800 level. A pregnancy has nothing to do with what happens at the time of 559 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,239 delivery, nor what happens in the postpartum period. So we have simply observed 560 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:52,400 that they are also different at the brain level, that when you discover it, 561 00:42:52,719 --> 00:43:00,760 it seems obvious, not clear and taking this that you comment on development, 562 00:43:01,639 --> 00:43:05,480 because maybe we don' t look too big or very abstract. But 563 00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:08,320 let' s see if we can get to make that our audience. Understand 564 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:15,039 what this research is translated into or for practical purposes, which involves for the 565 00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:19,599 average mother what it can mean in the way pregnant mothers are treated or treated, 566 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,039 for example, during their pregnancy, it can change some kind of process 567 00:43:24,119 --> 00:43:31,239 or it can involve something substance For me, because I think it gives a 568 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:38,679 lot of validity to something that the whole mother knew then. It' s 569 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:43,000 funny that in the end, because all moms know that we feel different, 570 00:43:43,119 --> 00:43:45,679 we talk about these symptoms, these weird sensations of not only at the cognitive 571 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:50,960 level, but also in tastes motivations, things that we like that we used 572 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,559 to like or the other way around, and that' s something that moms 573 00:43:54,639 --> 00:44:00,679 knew that, besides, the classics of psychology also aiming go and we basically, 574 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,960 what we have done has been to put a brain image, with some 575 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,639 changes, with a statistic and as we are now in the realm of neuroscience, 576 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:15,480 because to show people that they need that to believe that this is not 577 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,320 only a quantifiable phenomenon, but that it is me that I have studied with 578 00:44:20,519 --> 00:44:24,039 many pathologies, it is the most marked brain change that I have seen in 579 00:44:24,039 --> 00:44:27,440 my entire career as neuroscientific. I mean, I' ve studied children with 580 00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:32,280 what I was saying, children with DHT, people with schizophrenia and cosis. 581 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,119 I' ve never seen changes as marked as those I' ve seen in 582 00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:40,440 women' s brains when they go through maternity. Never? Never? Never, 583 00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:45,119 I mean, only with the brain image can you know if a person 584 00:44:45,199 --> 00:44:49,320 has gone through a pregnancy, no, and this not even with the greval 585 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,960 image can you tell if a person has a skit or not. With a 586 00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:54,599 hundred percent true you stay about seventy- five, because we, with our 587 00:44:54,599 --> 00:44:59,400 studies, with only the brain image could know the brain image of bed, 588 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,760 we could know if that brain belonged to a person who had been through pregnancy 589 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,519 or not. And in fact, now we' re seeing that it' 590 00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:09,760 s not necessary to have a lot of evidence. With not only Rome evaluated 591 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,480 over time, you can already see these changes. You hardly need statistics. 592 00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:19,039 It' s an obvious thing. It means the magnitude is very, very, 593 00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:22,599 very large and I think that helps moms also get women to take us 594 00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:29,719 seriously. Yes, and besides, I don' t want you to forget 595 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:35,480 about the term or you also recover this term of matres sciences that is being 596 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,920 heard more and more, where you compare the development that is already well known, 597 00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:45,679 of adolescence. Everyone already talk about the changes during adolescence and we have 598 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,719 and we have them also super assumed. As is normal. They are changing, 599 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:58,559 they are developing such and yet, matter no longer comes after it gives 600 00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:02,199 light and come put them to the one before. Come fast anyway. You 601 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,159 can' t flag, even though you now have three times the job, 602 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,840 because you have to take care of a human being. Yes, yes, 603 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:15,280 it was important to me and, besides, the study. This came out 604 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,119 almost also because of a kind of rebound with the press, because the first 605 00:46:19,199 --> 00:46:25,079 study we published was interpreted as having women brain atrophy with pregnancy. We always 606 00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:30,440 said good to have volume reductions in biology are not always worse. During adolescence, 607 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:37,440 the volume of gray substance decreases and these decreases favor the maturation of certain 608 00:46:37,519 --> 00:46:42,880 cognitive functions. But let' s not have tried it and the next thing 609 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,519 we did was say it, because let' s prove it. Let' 610 00:46:44,519 --> 00:46:47,920 s see if it' s true, and we threatened a group of women 611 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,119 before and after the first pregnancy and a group of teenagers, the girls before 612 00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:57,159 and after the puberta, and we could also prove with a scientific article that 613 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,880 the anatomical changes were identical at the magnetic character level, after it happens at 614 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,239 the cellular level, because we still don' t know, because we can 615 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,360 ' t see it in humans. But at the neo- anatomical level, 616 00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:15,519 the two processes show identical, identical changes And so with everything we knew again 617 00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:20,920 from the classics of Dana' s contribution, Rafael abráril Atán, who already 618 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,159 do this parallelism with motherhood and adolescence, or Alexandra sax who is the psychiatrist 619 00:47:24,159 --> 00:47:29,840 this made him famous with the talk Ted. Well, we brought this term 620 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:35,719 back. But now, from the biological perspective of brain changes, repopularize it 621 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:42,239 clearly, give it a little bit of shine, give it the real neuro 622 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,840 - gaphites. Everyone wants to see things with neuro gadgets is that it is 623 00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:50,000 now very fashionable n yes too much. I love them and I do that, 624 00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:52,519 but I think it' s all neuros now, that' s nothing, 625 00:47:52,639 --> 00:47:57,400 I' m all euro going to become euro podcast. Yeah, I 626 00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,440 ' ve even seen neuroports, neuromarketing, it' s neuro. Of course, 627 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,599 everything, everything, everything, everything goes, everything, you can apply 628 00:48:05,679 --> 00:48:09,599 neuro. Whatever. Yeah,' cause, yeah, it doesn' t 629 00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:14,119 like it, it' s true, and besides, it looks as modern 630 00:48:14,119 --> 00:48:17,440 as it does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you 631 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,519 ' re fucking dangerous, uh, me, especially because then you don' 632 00:48:21,519 --> 00:48:25,639 t find neuro. I mean, it' s clear, when everything' 633 00:48:25,639 --> 00:48:29,480 s already neuro, it' s already gone. I mean, what' 634 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:34,639 s neuro, not sure, but now it' s true that they' 635 00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:37,559 re starting to be hard to tell. It doesn' t apply everything anymore 636 00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:40,840 and it' s true that maybe I don' t know how it' 637 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:45,119 s used. I don' t know what degree there is of the same 638 00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:49,280 that you scientists have to be super rigorous when it comes to applying, that 639 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,199 is, placing the sources the standard you have to use, I don' 640 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,280 t know what to quote when it comes to using terminology. There isn' 641 00:48:59,079 --> 00:49:04,599 t that same rigor and sometimes it loses a little bit, but I don 642 00:49:04,639 --> 00:49:07,199 ' t think it' ll get away with scientists and I' ve got 643 00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:09,880 more of the mark Yes. Yeah. I think it clearly comes from marketing. 644 00:49:10,639 --> 00:49:15,000 Neuro sells and gets it into ebry well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 645 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,000 In any case, in your book it goes well, you touch it 646 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:25,000 or what I do. In this case I felt, I don' t 647 00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:30,880 say. In fact, I feel a lot more comfortable talking about neurohard than 648 00:49:30,679 --> 00:49:37,440 what neuro represents more because I did psychology, but then I don' t 649 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,760 almost exercise, no, I' m more pure and hard neuro. Now, 650 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,280 in any case, the neuro is perfectly included. And before it' 651 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,760 s over, which one is not. I want to leave the final part 652 00:49:51,840 --> 00:50:00,079 dedicated to postpartum depression, which I think you talk about how you can detect 653 00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:08,119 those markers or how you can detect the best and not, because sometimes it 654 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:15,920 is difficult to know to what extent a woman goes through a state of sadness 655 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:23,039 or melancholy or tiredness, a sum of factors and when there is a postpartum 656 00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:29,679 depression, how to detect it. And more considering that when you give birth 657 00:50:29,679 --> 00:50:37,440 the mother already disappears and the attention to mothers is null yes, they did 658 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,280 not think to insert this is a small section. Even I don' t 659 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,880 think it' s a chapter, but it' s very, very, 660 00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,639 very brief. Yeah, and the idea of finally putting it in is because 661 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:52,559 I have matron friends who were telling me that they were trying to incorporate huge 662 00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:55,880 depression screenings. Not at all does he diagnose the book much less, but 663 00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,400 there are screenings, there are very easy tests that want to be incorporated into 664 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:06,199 the clinic, but that in the end the care prisons cause some, in 665 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,840 some autonomous communities, to be incorporated and in others not. And jo cost 666 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:14,559 me no effort. It was as easy for me as saying good. I 667 00:51:14,599 --> 00:51:17,920 leave you here the links are translated and in Spanish the questionnaires, not by 668 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,199 me, but by people who have validated them simply if you and besides, 669 00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:27,239 you can do it in your house calmly without feeling guilty. If you see 670 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:32,360 you score higher than the cut- off point, consult, consult and have 671 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:37,000 them help you. I also think that romanticizing this idea of motherhood and seeing 672 00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:39,920 what' s good and bad and putting yourself a little in the center helps 673 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:44,000 you if you need to ask for help, you can ask for it. 674 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,960 And that was very easy for me to do, and I think it can 675 00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:53,519 help moms who find themselves in that state and doubt whether what happens to them 676 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:58,639 is normal, whether they have to ask for help or not. And again, 677 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,880 he' s not diagnosing at all. They are links that you like 678 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:06,400 the typical questionnaires that everyone spends research and, moreover, they want to be 679 00:52:06,519 --> 00:52:09,320 incorporated in the clinic. But for logistical reasons it doesn' t give time, 680 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,639 so you go. That' s where we collect the data They' 681 00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:15,840 re anonymous. It automatically calculates the score and you say. Hey, I 682 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:20,079 ' m at the cutoff point. If I continue like this, it doesn 683 00:52:20,199 --> 00:52:22,760 ' t cost me anything to go to the family doctor and tell him listen 684 00:52:23,079 --> 00:52:31,760 look I happen this that you consider evaluating me to see, hopefully, hopefully, 685 00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:37,119 I cry out to hope. I wish, I wish. This would 686 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:42,559 serve and, above all, there would be more attention. Once you give 687 00:52:42,679 --> 00:52:50,079 birth to the mother, who stays very alone, who is overwhelmed with the 688 00:52:50,639 --> 00:52:53,280 weight of the social chicken and in social support, because already the mother, 689 00:52:53,519 --> 00:52:59,199 but it is perfect if you are already home and in theory and the child 690 00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,920 still clear and and yesiologically, you are recovering. But all that is supposed 691 00:53:04,159 --> 00:53:09,159 to be, because his thing would be that your book reached many consultations, 692 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:15,280 many midwives, many gins, not that many professionally have come to the truth 693 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:21,639 and that makes me very happy because I think they are hups, not men. 694 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:30,320 They can many nurses, pediatricians, people who are in contact at the 695 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,880 end as much as in my baby as with that mother they come to consult 696 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:39,360 who calls her Mommy, who no longer ceases to have her own name and 697 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:45,519 becomes the mother of and who arrives on many occasions how she arrives at those 698 00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:51,800 consultations. But, this gives a lot of truth and I hope that it 699 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:59,280 will reach many healthcare professionals who have the ability to make decisions and to pay 700 00:54:00,119 --> 00:54:05,239 more attention or demand resources as well. I don' t know, I 701 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:10,639 know it depends on many factors, but in any case it is rigorous information 702 00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:16,639 with all the water to the scientist of the world and beyond, what we 703 00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:22,440 will live in this case not and, moreover, super accessible and very human 704 00:54:22,599 --> 00:54:27,880 and with which it is very easy to connect its healthy And I thank you 705 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:34,079 a lot for the effort, because precisely for that to make it arrive and 706 00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:43,800 make it understandable and accessible to everyone, since questions that can stay away in 707 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,440 the academy, know only for the elite and that it is accessible to everyone. 708 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,199 And in a way also, because they are very close, very simple 709 00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,800 and that you are all able and I hope that all read it also you 710 00:54:54,840 --> 00:55:00,039 who really will be very interested also that you will be able to go very 711 00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:06,559 safely, so thank you, because it really makes me very happy to hear 712 00:55:06,599 --> 00:55:09,079 what you say. I' m really telling you from the heart that it 713 00:55:09,199 --> 00:55:13,760 ' s worth all the effort, just to see that you get it. 714 00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:20,840 So, we will leave all the notes about the book in the program as 715 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,159 always in the description, and nothing is used. We' ll keep reading 716 00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:30,719 about you and seeing your work and the work of your team, because you 717 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:36,760 ' re there, I know you' re on more research and I imagine 718 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:37,199 we' ll have the news for you. So nothing short, yes, 719 00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:45,840 but good, compa shortly, soon, very short, well. Some of 720 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,280 them came out in brief, yeah, well, yeah, one went out 721 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:51,199 on Wednesday. Yeah, I saw that, I mean, but yeah, 722 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:52,320 and is that hanan? That way they' re over there? Are they? 723 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,079 That' s why they have to be checked, but I think they 724 00:55:55,199 --> 00:55:58,239 ' ll be good soon, because prime tien can be a clear one. 725 00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,800 That' s what I was going to tell you, that I say I 726 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:07,079 don' t know if we have the same concept of not clear, myself 727 00:56:07,199 --> 00:56:13,119 on a temporary scale of brief science I don' t know in good anticipation 728 00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:15,320 when I have to take that no. It is also necessary to be patient 729 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,320 that this is the case and that, above all, that what the process 730 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,880 is and that your work, because it is the best possible, that is, 731 00:56:22,039 --> 00:56:27,320 that you have, that you have all the help, that it is 732 00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:32,400 not that bureaucratic torture of actions that we know it is and that it is 733 00:56:32,519 --> 00:56:34,960 really absurd that that has to be so. No one can understand it, 734 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,440 you don' t understand it either who does it like that. Why can 735 00:56:42,599 --> 00:56:49,400 it justify you not, not because we' re going to piss you off 736 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,519 so better, not anything, just wish you a lot of luck and that 737 00:56:52,519 --> 00:56:59,199 nora good. Mostly, thank you, Monica. Friends, we' re 738 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:00,239 leaving We' ll be back in a new episode of good morning. I 739 00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:05,599 hope you enjoyed this episode very much and that you get this book running is 740 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,559 good in your neighborhood bookstore and we will come back very soon with a new 741 00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:10,960 episode. Good- bye, Susana. Bye.