WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:06.080 Welcome to Wine Soundtrack USA. Listen to the passion with which producers narrate their 2 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:11.240 winery and their worlds. In thirty answers discover their stories, personalities, and 3 00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:15.400 passions. Hello, friends and listeners of Wine Soundtrack. This is Alison Levine 4 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:20.039 and today I am with Jeff Morgan, owner and winemaker of Covenant Wines. 5 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:26.879 Jeff, Welcome to Wine Soundtrack and tell us about Covenant Well, Alison, 6 00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:32.079 thank you for having me on your podcast. Covenant is actually a winery, 7 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:38.159 so we call it Covenant Winery, even though officially our name is Covenant Wines 8 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:43.039 because we make some twenty four different wines. We also make wine in Israel, 9 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:49.039 we only make four or five over there. But Covenant Winery is an 10 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:55.719 urban winery in Berkeley, California. My wife Jody and I are co founders 11 00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:02.759 and co owners with a partner whose name is Jeff Ahwager who lives in Israel. 12 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:06.519 But we founded it and we started it twenty years ago. This is 13 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:12.200 our twentieth anniversary with the late Great Leslie Rudd, who was a famous NAPA 14 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:17.879 vintner and a very close friend and without whom I never would have had this 15 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:23.359 idea to start Covenant Winery. So you said you make twenty four wines and 16 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.879 plus the ones in Israel. Where are you sourcing your fruit from? Is 17 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:33.000 it all over California or beyond? Do you own any vineyards? No, 18 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:38.680 when Leslie was alive, and he was alive for eighteen or sixteen of the 19 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:42.400 twenty years that we've been in business, we sourced some of our fruit from 20 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:47.560 Leslie's vineyards, So technically we owned vineyards in Napa Valley at that time. 21 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.680 But no, I don't own any vineyards of my own. I saw scrapes 22 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:57.599 from about twenty different vineyards starting down in near Santa Barbara, working my way 23 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.599 up the coast into now up A Valley, Sonoma Lake County and Lodi, 24 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:06.799 Wow, all over the place. And what's your total case production? We're 25 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:10.039 in about eight thousand cases right now. And where are your wines available? 26 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:15.439 Are they across the country, across the world or direct to consumer combination? 27 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:28.280 Yes, so obviously we have a direct consumer business, and we also are 28 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:31.199 I think we're in about twenty four twenty five states across the nation. We're 29 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:38.280 also in Canada, we are in Tokyo, Taiwan, London, Paris, 30 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:45.840 Israel. Of course, Central America, Mexico, South America, Brazil. 31 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:47.280 You really are all over the world. Yeah, we have. I mean 32 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:53.120 we are very small production. I mean with the twenty or twenty four different 33 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:57.400 wines that we make, you know, typically production will range from three hundred 34 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:01.120 to five hundred cases, get up to a thousand cases on a few of 35 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:07.360 our more popular wines, like the Red Sea Red, which is a Roan 36 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:12.719 blend from Snoma Valley, Snoma County, actually not Snowba Valley, but um, 37 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:21.280 yeah, I mean we have a surprisingly wide range of availability considering how 38 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:25.599 small we are. So I'm curious, what is your first memory relevant to 39 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:31.599 wine. That's a good question, which is what we say when we're trying 40 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:38.639 to think of the answer. I could tell you my wine epiphany. It's 41 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:46.599 yeah, it's it's it's it's very solidly in my mind. So it wasn't 42 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:51.479 the Lancers when I was fifteen, nor was it the Boone's farm when I 43 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:58.520 was seventeen eighteen. So in getting to your epiphany moment, I'm curious about 44 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.919 this. Your first introduction to wine was kind of the Lancers and Boons? 45 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:05.599 Would you say that was when you first your first memory kind of of wine? 46 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:10.319 Or as a child. Was it when I first started drinking really to 47 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:14.560 get drunk. I was in high school Lancers. I remember that fifteen year 48 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.240 old Lancers. Well, it was amazing. But people will tell you what 49 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:20.120 else happened. But and you know in those days, this was in the 50 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:24.959 sixties and early seventies. You know, there was a lot of marijuana with 51 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:29.600 those wines. So it's very interesting time with rock and roll and other stuff 52 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.399 like that. But the aha moment, the aha moment happened when I was 53 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:40.360 nineteen and I had moved to France to study. I was a musician and 54 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:46.279 I had been accepted at the French National Conservatory as if classical flutist in Nice, 55 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.720 and I went my first day in school. I didn't speak very good 56 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:54.639 French at the time, and I didn't really know anything about where I was. 57 00:04:55.279 --> 00:05:00.079 But there was a student cafeteria and I went in with my little tray. 58 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:03.079 They gave me the tray that's in French the word portrays a game. 59 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:09.120 I had a little game and you're you got to choose different dishes that you 60 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:12.120 could have for lunch. This was lunch. It costs two francs, which 61 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:16.240 was about fifty cents at the time it was government subsidized lunch. And I 62 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.000 saw all these little salads, niece, they really eat well, okay, 63 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:24.800 all these little There was celery ramula, there was there was the betav. 64 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:28.279 I don't know what there was, all this stuff. I'd never seen anything 65 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:32.120 like it. I took the I remember very clearly. I took the celery 66 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:38.279 ramula, the celery root salad. And then it was a Friday. And 67 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.920 then back in those days, the year was nineteen seventy three. Okay, 68 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:46.639 so back in those days, by decree, the student restaurants only served fish 69 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:51.160 because it was fish on Friday for the non Jews and the Jews alike and 70 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:57.160 so so so. But it wasn't like the fish sticks I grew up with. 71 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.319 It was like the whole fish. It was like the head and the 72 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:06.120 tail and everything is there, with these little potatoes and a little bit of 73 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:11.040 green parson on the top. And wow, I didn't know how to eat 74 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.519 it, but I took it. That was the only option. The next 75 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:17.319 station was your little wedge of Camelbert. The next station they had a little 76 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:21.920 dessert of some sort. And then at the next station they said, monsieur, 77 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:27.279 would you like white or red, and I said, who's the monsieur, 78 00:06:27.319 --> 00:06:30.199 Oh, that must be me, monsieur white or red? What? 79 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:32.879 And then I realized they were holding little splits of white and red wine. 80 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:39.639 Wow, so what do I know? I took the white and I sat 81 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:43.879 down to my table with my fifty cent French meal. Actually it was an 82 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:47.720 extra franc for the wine, so I splurged seventy five cent meal. I 83 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:55.680 sat down and I took a taste of the celery ramlade. Somebody showed me 84 00:06:55.720 --> 00:07:00.120 how to eat the fish, how to take it off the bone, and 85 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.160 then I took a sip of my white wine. Now you know the story 86 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:08.000 about Don Perignon when he finally figured out how to make champagne and it worked, 87 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:15.319 and he was he said, I saw stars, you know, And 88 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:21.839 well I saw at that moment, and I realized, A. I had 89 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:27.680 been eating and drinking badly all my life growing up in New York. And 90 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.360 B I wasn't sure if I was going to learn how to be a good 91 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:32.839 musician, but I was definitely going to learn how to eat and drink better. 92 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:39.399 And so I stayed for five years. And so you've learned, obviously, 93 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:42.480 to eat and drink better. You lived by your words, So I'm 94 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:46.399 curious, is there one wine? I mean, I'm sure there are many 95 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:54.639 great wines you have drunk in your life. Nineteen sixty six white in the 96 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:59.800 cellar with the chav family, about ten years ago with Dave Ramy, we 97 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:05.800 were there. Yeah, one of those memorable wines that leave an impression. 98 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.319 Yet. Yeah, And of course white wines, when they're made right, 99 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.800 they age beautifully. So if we were to come to your home today, 100 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:18.120 what would we find in your home? What's what's in your cellar, your 101 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:20.560 refrigerator, the cupboards, Like, what do you and your wife drink? 102 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:28.079 Well, we drink a lot of really good wine, not just our wine, 103 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.439 of course, in fact, not a whole lot of our wine, 104 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:33.480 because we have to sell our wine, and plus you get bored drinking your 105 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:39.879 own wine. I really love. I drink a lot of white wine because 106 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.960 I feel white wine is more versatile than red, at least than most reds. 107 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:50.440 So we drink you know Austrian you know, grinners. We drink a 108 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.759 little bit of the German reesling. I do like Burgundy. I don't have 109 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:58.080 enough of it, but I drink red and white burgundy. Actually I drink 110 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:03.320 more red Burgundy than Burgundy. Um. I don't drink much Bordeaux because the 111 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:09.320 Bordeaus that I really like are too expensive, same with the Burgundies. But 112 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:11.360 I am and I just got a really good Burgundy wholesale for like less than 113 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:18.360 thirty bucks red. It was fantastic. So um so, and then of 114 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:22.799 course I drink I like higher acid, I like more structure. I don't. 115 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.600 I really don't like fat, flabby wines. Maybe because I lived in 116 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:30.080 France for not only those first five years, but then I went back later 117 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:33.200 and I was a musician in France. I got used to hire acidity, 118 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.600 and I like that. I don't like harsh tannins. But I like structure 119 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:41.600 in my wines. Um and so um. I love Chebarney Fronc. I 120 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.960 love Schino, Okay, I really do. UM. I do like um 121 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:52.440 some of the wines coming out of the southern California, Sante Nez Valley or 122 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.799 Santa Rita Hills actually making some terrific pianos and Chebarney, Fronc and Sira. 123 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.399 So you really you're an equal opportunit. So I've never met a good wine 124 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:05.559 I didn't like. So is there a particular wine that you've drunk recently, 125 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:09.200 something from your home or something that you opened up that drink really well, 126 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.519 well, it's funny you should ask that. So I went to a restaurant 127 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:20.799 called Acre in Oakland just I was there Saturday night with some friends, and 128 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:24.879 you know, I was thinking, as look at the list, and oh, 129 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.200 you know, Jody didn't want to drink much. My other friend didn't 130 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.159 want to drink much that her husband likes beer. But I'm thinking, what 131 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:33.840 are we gonna have? Yea, and I wanted the lamb, but I 132 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:39.039 didn't really like the selections of reds. And then I saw Bruno Jukoza, 133 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.320 you know, twenty twenty one ars for sixty seven dollars on the list or 134 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.720 sixty four dollars on the list. I went for that and it delivered. 135 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.080 It delivered because it tasted great. It was elegant, beautiful, flavorful. 136 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:56.120 It wasn't outrageously priced. And I think, when I can find a really 137 00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:00.080 great tasting wine at a price I can afford it, I love it. 138 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.159 So you said that you are more of a wine white wine drinker, or 139 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.360 you love white wines. But if you had to choose one word, red, 140 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.080 white or rose that's a loaded question, and you know it. Well, 141 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:18.639 you probably know it. I do know it. So if you go 142 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.159 out for dinner and everybody's eating, you know, one person's having the lamb, 143 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:26.360 the others having the fish, the others having the vega the vegan course, 144 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:30.039 and the others having whatever you're gonna buy. I mean, and you 145 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.519 only have you know the option of drinking one wine while it's going to be 146 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:39.039 a good rose or sparkling bubbly. No, bubbly, I love bubbly. 147 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:43.960 We'll just do the bubbly, you know, before we start eating. Well, 148 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.799 let me let me ask you on that note, how do you approach 149 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:48.519 food and wine pairing? I mean, you're obviously very thoughtful when you're with 150 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:52.080 friends having different meals. Do you think there are rules to follow? Do 151 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:56.559 you follow rules? Do you have tips you can give people about what to 152 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:00.399 look for? Well, obviously, Alison, you have never read any of 153 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:03.000 the ten books I've written on this subject. Oh, but this is giving 154 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:09.360 you the opportunity to talk about your your expertise. Well, I don't know 155 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:11.080 about the expertise, but I did write the book. I actually wrote ten 156 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:16.399 of them on food and wine pairing, and they're all cookbooks and every recipe 157 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.600 and every one of our cookbooks except Working Parents, which is about how to 158 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:26.840 eat well despite your children. But Diana de Luca Food and Wine, Plump 159 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.399 Jack Cookbook, it's all about food and wine. Demand Shandon, It's all 160 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:33.320 about food and wine. The Covenant Kitchen Food and Wine for the New Jewish 161 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:39.279 tab But what else do We wrote Cooper's Hawk for the Chicago Winery and Restaurant 162 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:43.399 Group that's all about food and wine. But they're all about it's all about 163 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:48.840 what is it about that you're looking for when you make the suggestions of pairings. 164 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.000 Well, so all the pairings and all of my books are generic. 165 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:56.600 They're really about style, and it's really quite simple. I don't know why 166 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:01.120 Americans are so like hung up about what they're gonna what they're gonna have with 167 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:05.759 a particular dish. First of all, the rules are simple, and this 168 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:09.679 is what I write now. I've plagiarized myself in all ten books because it's 169 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:13.799 so simple and I can't reinvent it. You know, um natural city and 170 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:20.480 a wine balances the natural fats and oils and whatever is on your plate. 171 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.799 Just about everything on your plate's got fats and oils. Now there's tannin and 172 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:31.480 red wines tannins ten two. As we all know, they glom onto protein, 173 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:37.559 and so protein and tannin kind of soften each other. And so that's 174 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:41.440 why red wine can go very well with steak. Then there's body, which 175 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:46.360 would be you know, the alcoholic content of your of your wine. Essentially, 176 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.679 usually a full bodied wine or more reds that are full body but not 177 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:58.120 necessarily only will go better with a full bodied dish, and a lighter bodied 178 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:00.879 wine will go better with a light bodied dish. But I'm not quite done, 179 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:07.879 Allison. Here's the thing. There is complimentary pairing, and there is 180 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:16.080 contrasting pairings. Most most pairings that work well are complimentary similarly styled wines going 181 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.159 with a similarly styled dish. So a rich wine going with a rich dish. 182 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:24.720 But sometimes you really want that bright acidity such as what you would find 183 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:28.720 in champagne with your FOI grow or you know, to cut through, cut 184 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:33.320 through it and refresh your palette. So there are no rules, only guidelines. 185 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:37.480 And all of my books are still on Amazon, but most are out 186 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:41.919 of print now. But if you really you know, I can I summarize 187 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.159 each chapter on food wine pairing is no more than one or two pages. 188 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.480 No, that's great. I mean that's much more information than most people will 189 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:54.200 give in food. Mary. So I'm curious. You said you make twenty 190 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:58.639 four different wines. What are the different groups you're working with? Variety wise? 191 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.679 Actually, I make nineteen or twenty here in California, and we make 192 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:05.879 four or five over in Israel. But um, well, I started with 193 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:09.679 Kaberney Salvignon and twenty years ago in Napa Valley, when Leslie Rudd and I 194 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.799 tasted a really good wine from Israel that we thought was kosher, but it 195 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:16.440 wasn't kosher, and we just thought it's from Israel, it's got to be 196 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:18.759 kosher. So we were just complete idiots and we thought, you, let's 197 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.039 try to make a kosher, great kosher Nappa Kabnet. So that was the 198 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:28.840 beginning of Covenant, And I started with five hundred cases of really terrific great 199 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:33.600 wine made from it was lark meat. Actually, lark meat fruit was the 200 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:37.200 first vineyard I worked with because less wouldn't let me use it sound great, 201 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:45.879 trust me. Eventually it all I took five years. But now, but 202 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:48.799 I you know, I mean, I don't drink a lot of Kabernet. 203 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:52.559 I drank a lot more Sarah. I drink a lot of Kaberney front when 204 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:56.200 I can find it, I drink more pinots. So we make a pino 205 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:02.960 noir from Francis Mahony's vineyard in uh In Carnaros. We've been doing that for 206 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.639 about eleven years. Um. I make sira from three different vineyards, one 207 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.559 down in the Santa Rita Hills, also be a Acito, which is in 208 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:17.200 Santa Marita. And then um we have the Movini vineyard is up in on 209 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.759 Snowma Mountain, Bennett Valley. Those are my three Sarah sources at the moment 210 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:27.039 um. But I'm really proud of our chardonnay from the Scopus vineyard. Um, 211 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:30.440 I just got ninety four points and some magazine that will not be named 212 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:34.320 for it. I do have a question about that. We're coming and but 213 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:37.320 I wrote to the guy who gave me the ninety four and I said, 214 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:38.639 you know, dude, thank you for that, because I usually get ninety 215 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.600 ninety one. And you know, it's like, this is not a nine 216 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.480 one one. This is like an awesome vineo and an awesome wine. And 217 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:49.879 I like to say that, you know, it's really Dave Raymy, you 218 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:53.519 know, interpreted by Jeff Morgan. So, Dave Raymy, my dear friend, 219 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:59.559 is one of the greatest winemakers in California. Was basically taught me how 220 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:02.440 to make one. And so if I'm making good wine, it's thanks to 221 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.039 Dave. And Dave had me over for dinner a little while back, and 222 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:11.000 he had this glass of wine on the table, white wine. And he 223 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:11.680 said, and I said, what's that. He said, you have to 224 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.799 guess? And I said, oh shit, I have to guess. I 225 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:19.880 hate doing this, and so but he said that he can't have dinner until 226 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:23.240 you guess what this is. So I put my nose in the glass and 227 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:29.200 it smelled like aged white wine. I assumed it was kind of like an 228 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:33.240 age chardonay. Really nice, smells more tasted than that. I was thinking, 229 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:37.359 Gee, this tastes like rainy Chardonay'm here, I'm with David. Ramy 230 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.039 tastes like age. So I said, gee, it tastes like, you 231 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:44.279 know, maybe a ten year old Ramy chardonay. And he started laughing, 232 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:45.680 and I said, what are you laughing about? He said, and he 233 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:51.720 took the bag off. It was my own chardoney. It was a two 234 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:55.799 thousand and nine Covin and chardonnay, and I thought, well, and we 235 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.680 both we both agreed that I guess I learned my lesson. Well, that's 236 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:03.079 amazing thing. So um, just really quickly, are you working with any 237 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.759 other white grapes. Yeah, I'm very proud of my Roussan from Lodi. 238 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:11.160 It's awesome. My Viognier from the Galilei is awesome, and my viognier from 239 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.559 Lowda is awesome because a lot of people aren't doing this. All of my 240 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.799 wines, by the way, or native yeast ferments, um, most of 241 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:25.039 them are barrel fermented, but in neutral oak. Um. I make a 242 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:30.759 really good Sevinion blanc from Lake County that doesn't see any oak. And I 243 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:37.400 also make a super over the top beautiful Sevinion blanc from um ben A Valley. 244 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.440 Same vine'er gonna get my seraf from from ben At Valley and and it's 245 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:48.480 um it's made more like um like Bordeaux white Bordeaux. In fact, I 246 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:52.279 want it so bad to be Obrion blanc that I have the Obrion Blanc U 247 00:18:52.839 --> 00:19:03.480 shaped bottles and recall it in the house. Fabri are so I'm curious, 248 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:06.400 working with all these different grapes, do you think there's a such thing as 249 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:12.440 a perfect variety? Yeah? Whatever one you're drinking. And then you made 250 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:18.039 a comment to me before about getting a ninety four and what a kind of 251 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:22.359 like relief in a way after getting nineties and ninety one. So I'm curious, 252 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.839 what's your opinions on wine critics and scores? What do these numbers? 253 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.359 Do they mean something to you? Do they mean more to the consumer? 254 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:33.279 Should they mean a lot? Well, before I answer that question, you 255 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:37.519 know, we have to come clean to whoever might be actually listening to this. 256 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:44.480 And you know, but a lot of people don't know that. I 257 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.680 was West Coast editor of Wine Spectator from nineteen ninety two to the end of 258 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.559 nineteen ninety nine, so I was giving these scores for eight years for Wine 259 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.400 Spectators. So how do you feel about your former self? I made a 260 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.279 lot of people rich and a few people not so rich, more of I 261 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.160 think more people. I've made a lot of money off some of the really 262 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:07.279 great scores that reviews. It wasn't just the scores. But this is America, 263 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.720 so Americans they don't read very well. They want the number listen, 264 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:18.440 I think, and they were blind. I mean, I didn't know what 265 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.519 I was tasting back in those days. I don't know what's going on now. 266 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:25.720 It's been twenty years since I spected, twenty two years, oh my 267 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:30.279 god, twenty three years since I left the Spectator, so I don't know 268 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:36.799 exactly what the processes anymore. But my time it was blind. I knew 269 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:41.880 what region I was tasting, but certain I didn't know the producers. And 270 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:47.720 I think the Spectator and Bob Parker, who by the way, did not 271 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:53.319 taste blind, really did a service for Americans in that they gave what I 272 00:20:53.319 --> 00:21:04.920 would call the puerile culture free kill on a challenged, culinarily challenged consumer in 273 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:11.079 America, something that they could relate to, and that inspired them to explore 274 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.000 wine in a way that they hadn't before. Okay, the one hundred point 275 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.039 scale everybody got. This twenty point scale wasn't working for us because in France 276 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:22.319 they get twenty points. They have a twenty point scale on their school papers. 277 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:23.440 At least when I went to school in France, you get it was 278 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:27.599 out of twenty. But here it's one hundred points. Okay, And so 279 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:33.200 I think in my day the scores were and it was a it was a 280 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:41.039 real fledgling, still a fledgling American wine industry. Scores made stars got people 281 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:42.839 really excited. I know, before I became a wine writer, I was 282 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:47.480 just a consumer and I would, you know, religiously try to find the 283 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:52.079 wines that have the best reviews in the wine spectators. So it was a 284 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:56.720 good thing. Um, I think I don't think the scores are quite as 285 00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:00.359 effective anymore as they were back then. I think there are a lot of 286 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:07.160 influencers and other people writing about wine. You don't need to have a publication. 287 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.599 You know, back in my day there was no Internet, so you 288 00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:15.039 had to get published by an existing publication to get your whatever your opinions out 289 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:22.920 there. Now everybody's writing about wine, and nonetheless it so like I just 290 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.440 got a ninety six for one of my wines in uh In Decanter, and 291 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:30.920 it's probably one of the best wines I've ever made. One of a Cavernet 292 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:37.240 might not the Cavernet from U nineteen from twenty nineteen. I don't think it 293 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.680 made a big difference, but it felt good and it's something you know, 294 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:47.400 you can show off if you want. I mean, most summi yas don't 295 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:48.559 want to hear about your scores. I would never, you know, go 296 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:51.720 into a restaurant and try to sell them my one by saying, you know, 297 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:53.559 I got I got ninety nine points, I got nine nine points and 298 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:56.640 or whatever. It's just not going to happen. It's an insult, I 299 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:03.400 mean. And then I think retailers they still like to have scores that helps 300 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:06.279 them sell move wine off the shelf. So you've got good scores, you 301 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:10.759 can at least offer a retailer a shelf talker with a ninety three or a 302 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:15.839 ninety four or whatever. Ninety one under ninety doesn't seem to register with anybody. 303 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:22.799 And how accurate are the scores, Well, you know, it's about 304 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.400 as accurate as it can get on any day. Right. Let me just 305 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:32.920 say what I like better about not blind tasting is that you taste a lot 306 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:36.279 of wines. You know, if you're a professional, taste taste thirty to 307 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:44.359 fifty to one hundred a setting and you get palette fatigue. But if you 308 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:48.200 know what you're tasting, and you're educated about the producers and the region that 309 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.440 you're tasting, you have a context. Yeah, you know what you're looking 310 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.200 for as opposed to what you think you're looking for. I've always said that 311 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:00.319 if you think if you know what you're looking for, or no, if 312 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:03.359 you think you know what you're looking for, that's what you're going to find. 313 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:08.839 And that's not really fair to anybody, but it's the nature of the 314 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:18.960 beast. So yeah, I like writers who go to the trouble to understand 315 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:25.519 producers, the region, the ter war, cultural practices, and then make 316 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:27.160 up their own minds over a certain amount of time, as opposed to a 317 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:32.119 snap judgment that it gets translated to your eighty nine points or your ninety nine 318 00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:36.480 points. So for somebody who hasn't had the pleasure to drink your wines yet 319 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.799 to taste Covenant wines, yet, what do you think they're missing out on? 320 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.440 That's another good question I don't have an answer for quickly. What are 321 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.000 they missing Ana? Well, you know, as I said, all our 322 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:56.519 winds are needed used to ferment it. Many of them are not filtered, 323 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:00.200 none of them are fined. So I think there are a reasonable a good 324 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:04.920 expression of the place they come from. We uh, we don't, you 325 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:08.640 know, we don't pick under ripe, We don't pick overwripe. We try 326 00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:15.519 to pick in a place that will highlight whatever the vineyard has to offer. 327 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:21.880 Um, you know, our wines are typically quite elegant. They're not bruisers, 328 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:25.599 but you know, they taste, there's flavor there. You don't have 329 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:30.400 to explain it to somebody. And because I make so many different wines, 330 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:36.440 I kind of make a wine for um every occasion, so to speak. 331 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:41.000 So you're giving me a great segue to my next question. If space aliens 332 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.319 were to knock on your door, which of your wines would you want to 333 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:52.720 gift them? Um, that's a good question. Also, if space aliens 334 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:57.680 were coming, well, it depends what they were having for dinner. That's 335 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:02.920 what I asked them first. So if they were having um, you know, 336 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.200 burgers, I'd give them my lowd eyes infant out. It goes great 337 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:11.880 with ketchup, although really nothing does go well with ketchup, but my that 338 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.640 zin can stand up to it. If they were having fish, I would 339 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:22.599 give them Solomon Blanc. Unless it was fish with a like a very powerful 340 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.000 sauce that I might have them or if it was a maybe it was so 341 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.480 basically the aliens have to eat. Yeah, yeah, you don't, that's 342 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.559 you know, it's a good point. Um. I don't drink wine unless 343 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.680 I'm eating. I mean I almost never the bubbly. I might start a 344 00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.079 meal with with no food, but I don't come home and have a glass 345 00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:45.400 of chardonnay. And I discourage anybody from doing that because after work, because 346 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:51.480 then you're gonna be drunk before you even have dinner. I um, I 347 00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:56.359 like to sip my wines or drink my wines with some kind of comestible. 348 00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:03.440 I love that. So you've been making wine for twenty years now. I 349 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:08.319 started in nineteen eighty eight, so that was thirty four years ago. Years 350 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:11.039 I was making wine in Long Island. A lot of people don't know that, 351 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:15.400 but my first job was as a celer rat and a vineyard grunt in 352 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:22.000 a small vineyard and winery on the North Fork of Long Island called Christina Vineyards. 353 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:26.640 Well, so you have an even longer history, so I'm curious, 354 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:30.240 and especially because you've worked in New York. You make wine in Israel as 355 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.920 well as here, and every region is different in terms of climate. We 356 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:40.240 know vintages, Every vintage tells a different story, but in where you're making 357 00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:44.319 wine or where you're getting your grapes, from Do you see huge variation from 358 00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:48.119 year to year? Do you see more commonalities? What do you or do 359 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:53.240 some regions give you more difference than others give you more similarity? Well, 360 00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:56.039 when we talk about regions, I mean in California, for example, there 361 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:02.640 are so many microclimates that the vineyard I sourced my sura from in the Santa 362 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:08.319 Ya Hills, It's only about fifteen miles from the vineyard I sourced my sura 363 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:12.079 from in Santa Maria. But it's like two different planets. I mean, 364 00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:15.880 one of them comes in super ripe and way early, and the other one 365 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:18.839 is like, I'm struggling to get it ripe and it's the last vineyard to 366 00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:23.400 come in during the season. And yet they're very close. So um again, 367 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:29.519 vintage to vintage, do you see more similarities within each individual vineyard or 368 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:33.839 do you see I used to say yes, but now I mean, we'll 369 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.319 just look at the last five years we've had. You know, in addition 370 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:41.359 to the smoke in twenty twenty, we we had like a lot of we 371 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:47.599 had the heat last year, like unbelievable heat, and then we've had we 372 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:51.599 had super amount of rain and down in Santa Y to hills at the end 373 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:55.160 of harvest that we had to deal with. I mean, so really every 374 00:28:55.279 --> 00:29:00.039 vintage is a new nightmare, and and our job is to try to deal 375 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.039 with it. So are there any signs or predictors that you look for that 376 00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:08.119 will tell you what a vintage will be? What after the vintage is over. 377 00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:12.559 If it tastes good, it's going to be a good vintage. Nine 378 00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:17.480 Sights twenty twenty. Yeah, I mean you can. I mean, if 379 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:19.480 you're having a lot of issues during the course of a vintage, well it's 380 00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:22.519 going to be challenging. That doesn't mean it's going to be bad. You 381 00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:26.839 know, my my, my twenty twenty Cabernet sevignon from Napa. I just 382 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:33.559 happened to pick most of it before the glass fire. The day before the 383 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.720 glass fire broke out. I had no idea, nobody knew it. I 384 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.720 lost one vineyard that I didn't pick, but I you know, seventy five 385 00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:45.039 percent or seventy percent of my Cabernet came in pretty much smoked free, so 386 00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:51.359 you know, you kind of know, well, okay, well, we 387 00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:53.880 had these issues. I lost a certain amount of my selvinion block last year 388 00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:56.559 in the two hundred and sixteen degree heat. That didn't you know? Because 389 00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:06.680 because yeah, because because the grower I was working with, whom he didn't 390 00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:11.480 listen to me, and he leaf plucked too much, too many leaves away 391 00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.119 from the clusters because he was afraid of mildew. And I said, listen, 392 00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.160 dude, like, I don't think you're gonna have this bat of an 393 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.160 issue, because if we get a heat spike somewhere down a lot, we're 394 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:26.680 gonna lose a lot of fruit. And shirt enough lost a lot of fruit. 395 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:32.880 So so it's you know, it's not boring. So have you established 396 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:37.240 any sort of rituals that you do at the start of harvest for yourself personally 397 00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:44.119 or you and your team? Yeah, I stop the concert series that we 398 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.400 start in April because I can't deal with anymore after I start baking grapes. 399 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.279 So we started, we have our concert series starting April twenty third this year, 400 00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:55.759 and we stopped August sixth, when it is just about when the first 401 00:30:55.799 --> 00:31:03.839 grapes are starting to come in for me climbing. So you're a musician and 402 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:06.839 we're we have a fun game will play at the end with music. But 403 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.240 you're a musician and I'm curious. Do you ever play music to your wines 404 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:15.680 in barrel or do you talk to them to the wines? Do you encourage 405 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.240 them or is it just a musical connection? Absolutely? Music is very very 406 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:25.200 important in winemaking. For example, anyone who plays really bad rock and roll 407 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:30.279 to their their wine and barrel is sure to have a disgusting, disastrous production, 408 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.559 There's no way around it. Okay, if you're playing the right kind 409 00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:38.079 of jazz, the right kind of jazz that would be jazz, I like, 410 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:45.000 you'll probably make excellent cabernet. But for your lighter, fresher wines, 411 00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:49.759 you need to focus on maybe Brazilian bussa nova. Oh, you're well primed 412 00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:53.640 for the game we play at the end. Wow. Okay, so you've 413 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:57.480 had quite an illustrious career when you were a little boy. What did you 414 00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:01.359 want to be when you grew up? A track star? Track star? 415 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:07.559 Yeah? And there you became a musician. Well, because I smoke so 416 00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:12.599 much dope when I was in high school that my lung collapsed and then I 417 00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:16.920 couldn't keep running, although I kept playing the saxophone. But whatever, um, 418 00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:22.440 where were we again? Like you wanted to be when you were a 419 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.599 little boy, the fact that you got into you know, when I was 420 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:27.440 a little boy, I didn't know what I mean. I wanted. I 421 00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:29.680 did want to be a track star. I wanted to be in the Olympics, 422 00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:35.359 and that dream was shattered with my with my collapse along um. Then 423 00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:43.839 I was really into oceanography and in biology, and I wanted to be an 424 00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.480 oceanographer. And then in my first week of college, when they told me 425 00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:52.599 I needed to take chemistry and biology at the same time, I realized this 426 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:59.759 is not going to work. And it just so happened. At the university 427 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:02.119 I was going to had a great music department, and so I became a 428 00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:08.160 music major, and eventually I went to France because they didn't want to study 429 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:12.960 anything about music. And then I stayed in France a long time and fell 430 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.279 in love with wine. Well what happened was I had this gig in Monte 431 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:20.880 Carlo with a great band in nineteen eighty seven where I was the band league, 432 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:23.359 where I was the co band leader with a French piano player who's a 433 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:28.119 very famous jazz player, now Frank. All of a sudden and we were 434 00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:31.839 in conservatory years earlier in France together, but we grew up and we got 435 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:37.000 this gig and the other saxophone player in the band, Tim Reese, he's 436 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:38.880 still with the Rolling Stones. I mean it was a great band, great 437 00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:45.880 musicians. And every night after the gig, I would be like really excited 438 00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:49.160 about what I was going to start drinking. And I eventually realized I was 439 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:52.440 more excited about what I was drinking than about what I was playing. And 440 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:57.960 so maybe I wanted to be a winemaker, which everybody told me I was 441 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:00.039 crazy to think, but I think you have to be a little crazy to 442 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:06.640 become a winemaker. And so we moved back to the States because nobody would 443 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.920 hire an American saxophone player in a French winery. And I got a job 444 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:15.039 in Long Island as a seller, rally or anything about wine except I like 445 00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:19.760 to drink it. And I kept playing gigs in New York for another four 446 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:23.840 or five years until finally the Wine Spectator hired me to be the West Coast 447 00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:28.639 editor and I was able to quit the music business and move to California and 448 00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:31.719 work with them. That's amazing. So when you look back at your career, 449 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:37.559 what would you say is one of your proudest achievements to date, I've 450 00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:43.800 been building the winery, building Covenant Winery is I don't I didn't think I 451 00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:49.199 could ever do that. It's a bit daunting. You know, you never 452 00:34:49.239 --> 00:34:52.800 have enough money, even if your partner's a billionaire, because the billionaires don't 453 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:55.039 give you the money. They just assure you that it's there and then it's 454 00:34:55.079 --> 00:35:00.960 not, but they at least give you the misplaced confid is that you're gonna 455 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:07.599 go forward. And I'm very proud of the quality of the wines that we 456 00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:15.400 make there. And we turned a nine thousand square foot former garage into a 457 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:19.199 really happening wine or even got a five thousand square foot crash pad. Writing 458 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:24.519 downtown Berkeley. Um and uh, you know as a wine writer, I 459 00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.440 mean I had the privilege. I mean I've also written for the New York 460 00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:31.079 Times, for the Enthusiast. I wrote for Wall Street Journal for ten years. 461 00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:36.400 Most people don't know that I wrote all their wine advertorial and which was 462 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.559 quite lucrative actually. And I actually had a column for a while with a 463 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:44.519 Wall Street Journal in Japan, despite the fact that I don't speak Japan. 464 00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:49.679 So um, so I think where I was going here is that um, 465 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:57.119 I had I've been blessed to taste a lot of great wine. I mean, 466 00:35:57.159 --> 00:35:59.800 I've you know, I've gone in the cellars of Petrius, I've been 467 00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:01.719 in the so Is, the Chaval Bloc, I've been in shop I've been. 468 00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:05.760 I mean, I've I've been able to like meet with the greatest wine 469 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:09.039 makers in the world, David Rainey, and I know Michelle Roland, I 470 00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:12.360 make it. I've been. I made a wine with Michelle for a couple 471 00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:15.719 of years. People don't know that, but so I've really been blessed to 472 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:22.159 work with the greatest wine makers on planet Earth. And as a result, 473 00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:24.280 I've been able to taste a lot of the greatest wines on planet Earth. 474 00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:29.840 And I can tell you my goal is to make wine that tastes as good 475 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.000 as my favorite wines on planet Earth. And I think we're doing a pretty 476 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:38.719 good job. I like that. I like that. So when you um, 477 00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:43.000 is there a piece of advice that somebody gave you along the way, 478 00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:47.480 something as a child, or somewhere in work or in life, a parent, 479 00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:52.800 a teacher, that something that is how you try to live your life 480 00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:57.679 or has driven you in your life. Yeah, a number of people have 481 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:00.960 said what I'm about to say, to you, but I think Um, 482 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:07.079 the first person that said this to me was my wife in a dream map 483 00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:12.760 that she made for me, Um, back when the kids were babies, 484 00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:17.760 and the dream maps map said believe in your dreams and if you can do 485 00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:21.920 it, that's the way to go. I love it. So, speaking 486 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:23.800 of your wife, if you were going to plan a romantic evening, what 487 00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:29.280 sort of wines would be open to set the mood. I'm sorry I shouldn't 488 00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:31.840 answer that because I know it's depending on what you're gonna eat. It's a 489 00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:37.840 good good it's a good recovery, Alison. Um, Look, if we're 490 00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:44.719 celebrating something I love to celebrate with champagne. Well, I forgot to tell 491 00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:52.800 you the nineteen forty five um um uh Christian um, oh my gosh, 492 00:37:53.199 --> 00:38:01.239 Christian pooge wine that I hadn't It was with Christian polog that I had nineteen 493 00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:07.719 forty five disgorged in. I don't remember when I was no, no excuse 494 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:14.760 me, we have to re cut. Got my advantages. So I forgot 495 00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:21.840 to mention with the shav sixty six, the nineteen fourteen pouroge in magnum I 496 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:24.840 had with Christian Polje and his wife, having break, having lunch with them 497 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:30.079 in their kitchen in Champagne was pretty damn good. It was disgorged in forty 498 00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:34.239 five at the end of the war. We drank the whole magnum, the 499 00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:37.760 three of us in nineteen fourteen. Yeah, and you're drinking in what year 500 00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:42.920 it must have been. Let's see, I with the spectator, so it 501 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:47.159 must have been like, I don't know, mid nineties. That's pretty extraordinary. 502 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:51.199 It was good. And anyway, so back to your question, what 503 00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:52.639 will we have with Joey? What would have happened? So I would we 504 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:58.119 start with the bubbly I love bubbly, and some little snacks to go along 505 00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:01.320 with it, maybe a little parmesan cheese or whatever, or pete I love 506 00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:07.039 pete um. And then um, you know, we eatn courses, so 507 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.159 you know, I don't just eat drink one wine with a really good meal. 508 00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:15.119 I have three or four courses. Really looking forward to going to dinner 509 00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:20.280 with you. Wow, And so you know, I'll have a white wine 510 00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:22.840 or some kind to get started, because I hate starting with red wine. 511 00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:25.320 Even though we started the bubbly. Um. Probably then I'd go to a 512 00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.159 you know, a piano or a more moderate bodied red because unless I'm having 513 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:34.639 like some grilled steaks, I really don't want to have cabernet unless it's aged 514 00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:39.840 cabernet, which then has mellowed and then that's better. Um, you know, 515 00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:44.880 And then i'd have depending on you know, how how how much time 516 00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:49.039 we have to eat and drink um, and have a second bottle of red 517 00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.480 wine that's a little more full body than the first. Um. And then 518 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:57.559 there's dessert that I have a dessert wine. And maybe then I'll finish with 519 00:39:57.599 --> 00:39:59.719 the brandy. Like you know, we make brandy, but you don't know 520 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:05.159 that the double edged sword is the Covenant brandy of Shannon Blocke and that's a 521 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.840 good way to finish the meal. And if you can smoke with the brandy 522 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:13.599 and nothing like a Cuban cigar with the brandy. So that's I guess I'm 523 00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:15.039 getting hungry just talking. Well, I would ask you what you do in 524 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:19.840 your free time, but I think I know, practice my saxophone, your 525 00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:23.599 saxophone, and eat and drink good good food and wine. Yeah yeah, 526 00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:28.840 yeah, so complete the sentence. For me, A table without wine is 527 00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:37.039 like breakfast. Although didn't you just say you had champagne for breakfast with pole 528 00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:40.440 roget No, that was lunch. Oh okay, okay, okay, maybe 529 00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:44.719 brunch. I'll have wine, but that's not breakfast. No, I need 530 00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:50.840 espresso cappuccino. So you've had You've had the privilege to drink with, as 531 00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:52.719 you said, so many luminaries in the wine industry, and are friends with 532 00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:57.719 a lot of these people. And I'm curious, um, sitting at a 533 00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:00.400 table in one of your wonderful meals, the Covenant Wines are on the table 534 00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.920 and there's an empty seat. Who from any walk of life, living or 535 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:10.079 deceased? Would you want to share a bottle of Covenant wines with living or 536 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:32.119 deceased? Uh? Stop John that way. I think I'd like to bring 537 00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:42.800 Leslie Red back for the twentieth anniversary. And yeah, um, well, 538 00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.639 I think that we are almost to the end here. You've been a wealth 539 00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:50.800 of information and great stories and I could keep going on. But I have 540 00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:54.119 a little game that we play, and this is going to be right up 541 00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:58.159 your alley because we you know, it's called Wine Soundtrack. We pair wine 542 00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:00.639 with music. You know, I have a great story about this. Okay, 543 00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:07.119 So after I told you what, you know, what you need to 544 00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:10.760 play in your cellar to make the right wine. I was bullshitting, you 545 00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:15.960 know. Although I do play my saxophone sometimes in the cellar because the acoustics 546 00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.920 are good. Yeah, and you know, sometimes you know, I want 547 00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:22.800 to do it like a video or something and it sounds good and it looks 548 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:29.079 good or the barrels there. But actually, when I was at wine Spectator, 549 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:36.880 I remember being invited up to I think it was a bubbly house in 550 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:45.039 Snoma Valley and they had arranged a tasting for me, and which that usually 551 00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:46.800 where it worked at the Spectator. We must have written some big article about 552 00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:50.920 them, and so they were already the wines are reviewed, but they wanted 553 00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:53.360 to put on this taste. So I go up to the winery and um, 554 00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:57.199 I walk into the tasting room and it's all set up very elegantly, 555 00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.440 and they're playing and I know right away with they're playing. They're playing public 556 00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:07.880 missals, playing buck cello suites, and these are extraordinary, this extraordinary music 557 00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:14.119 played by an extraordinary musician. And he's dead now. But and I said 558 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:16.960 to the general manager and winemaker, I said, so it's incredible music. 559 00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:22.719 So we have two options. We can taste wine or we can listen to 560 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:29.079 music, but we can't do them both. Well, We're going to try 561 00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:34.440 to do them both in this sense that wine conjures up emotions, as does 562 00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:38.840 listen to music. So we're going to put a music, a genre, 563 00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:46.480 and artist a particular song to your wines. So you talked about your chardonay. 564 00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:52.880 What in describing your chardonay, what would it be similar to? Music 565 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:54.360 wise? What would you pair it with? Since I just talked about Buck 566 00:43:54.800 --> 00:44:00.920 Buck wrote seven sonatas for flute, and those or there Each one is gorgeous 567 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:07.480 in a different way, and I would suggest any of them played by one 568 00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:13.000 of the many great flutists of our time. Most of them are French, 569 00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:19.519 although Galway is Irish, I think, but Ram paul Or or Maxims Lauhier 570 00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:27.239 Um, any of these guys would do my chardonnay justice. And what There's 571 00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:32.719 a certain richness and elegance in the way the flute sounds played by the right 572 00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:39.760 musician, So that would pair well with our chardonnay. Okay, what about 573 00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:49.920 your um Cabernet franc Oh well, the Cabernet franc I mean that is definitely 574 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:53.440 Gavan. Do you know Gavan? He's the Brazilian guitarist and songwriter, and 575 00:44:54.159 --> 00:45:00.440 the Cabernet franc definitely has a Brazilian edge to it. It's like they're like 576 00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:09.519 I can see crocodiles and baranhas and you know, big sea animals and they 577 00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:14.119 have an edge. And Cabernet Francie has that edge that you know right away 578 00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:19.480 it's Cabernet Francie Smellett. It's not like Cabernet Salvinia. It's Cabernet franc the 579 00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:23.000 edge. Javan his music has the edge. You should listen to Javan D 580 00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:27.679 G A V A N. I will, I will for sure with a 581 00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:32.039 glass of your Cabernet franc And what about your Sarah? Well, I make 582 00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:36.760 three surahs, so let's talk about are the one that's getting the highest scores 583 00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:44.280 right now? That would be our bienacito u sara from um just a small 584 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:50.039 parcel that um I'm allowed to take a small amount of fruit from and that's 585 00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:54.039 just this big rich ripe, but also has that animal, you know, 586 00:45:54.119 --> 00:46:00.199 the savage and so um. That would also been good with the animal rush 587 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:05.199 with the chambery front. But we already Javan got that so um. So 588 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:14.840 the I would suggest um, oh, this would be Oh. Then there's 589 00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:20.760 also I there's another Sarami is my sura from the Civon Vineyard in the Galile 590 00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:23.599 which is a biodynamic vineyard. That also, you can give me two saras 591 00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:27.280 and two songs. Yeah, no, two saras, you get one song, 592 00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:34.400 okay? And um yes. Shlomo Arzi do you know who Shlomo Arltzi 593 00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:37.840 is in Israeli artist? He's he's one of the most famous Israeli pop singers. 594 00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:40.639 He's old now, he's my age, so he's, you know, 595 00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:44.360 not as famous as as some of the younger guys. But I love his 596 00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:50.719 music and he just he he puts it all out there and he brings me 597 00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:52.280 to tears a great regularity. All that you can see. I'm a cry 598 00:46:52.559 --> 00:47:01.119 baby anyway. But but Shlomo Arltzi, Um, any of his ballads would 599 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:06.280 go well with our surah. I love it. You're very good at this. 600 00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.159 But what do you expect when someone's a musician and a winemaker. But 601 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:14.400 we have been talking for ages and we are coming to the end of this, 602 00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:17.960 and I do have a two part final question for you. You have 603 00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:22.480 traveled all over the world and drunk wine and wonderful places and probably been everywhere. 604 00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:25.719 But is there any wine region in the world that's at the top of 605 00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:31.440 your bucket list to go explore? I mean that I haven't been to already. 606 00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:36.679 Yeah, or maybe you just need to get back there and explore it. 607 00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:40.519 You know, I haven't spent any time in the War Valley. I'd 608 00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:44.760 like to. It's beautiful. I've passed through it, but I need to 609 00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:49.960 spend a little more time and cho for examples. I've spent a little time 610 00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:52.599 there, but not enough. Sambre's a little village where they make so many 611 00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:57.920 on blanc actually up it in Saxon, Burgundy, so m yeah, War. 612 00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:01.320 I don't know the war very well. Um. They're making some really 613 00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:06.320 interesting wines in China right now. I'd be very curious to see what's going 614 00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:10.960 on over there. As a lot of French investment in China, and um 615 00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:16.519 let's see. Um. Well, also, you know they're they're growing uh 616 00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:22.360 grapes, making bubbly in in in uh in the UK also Sweden, now 617 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:28.199 yeah, so um and I love you know, raw fish, so let's 618 00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:35.440 go to Sweden. Okay, Well, you know there's a whole there's a 619 00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:40.480 whole budding wine industry in Japan. My my, my associate and dear friend 620 00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:45.960 Ari Earl is consulting for a winery into near Tokyo. Right now, I 621 00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:50.800 want to go there. Crazy. Well that's amazing. Now if somebody wanted 622 00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:52.280 to taste your wines, can they do you have a taste room? Can 623 00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:55.639 they come visit you? Where can they find you? Okay? So you 624 00:48:55.639 --> 00:49:00.880 can find us in a lot of wine shops all over the world. Um. 625 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:05.280 And you know in regions where they sell wine. I mean in America, 626 00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:08.280 you know the normal markets, um, New York, New Jersey, 627 00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:16.360 Um. Um, you know Chicago or Florida, California. Um. But 628 00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:22.960 um, you can also go to our website, you know, Covenant Wines 629 00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:27.360 dot com. All of our wines are available uh on our on our website, 630 00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:31.039 and we ship direct to most states in America legally. Um. And 631 00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:37.960 then um, you can find my wines on the list of the French Laundry 632 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:42.840 next time you go there. We don't have as many wines in restaurants as 633 00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:45.800 I would like. Um. I think did we mention that all of my 634 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:49.320 wines happen to be kosher? No, we didn't. We went to the 635 00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:52.880 whole time without saying that well, because it's I think I said in the 636 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:57.000 beginning, we tasted to kosher wine and inspire us to to to make a 637 00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.679 good kosher wine. But yeah, all the wines I make it both in 638 00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:01.960 America can Israel. It happened to be kosher, which doesn't mean anything in 639 00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:06.440 terms of the wine making, because there is no kosher wine making method. 640 00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.199 It just has to do with It's a symbolic elements to who can touch the 641 00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:14.039 juice or the wine, the grapes, anybody can touch. You have to 642 00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:17.960 be Sabbath observant to be in my cellar doing you know, the hands on 643 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:22.639 work. But Sabbath observant. What does that mean when you only drink kosher 644 00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:24.320 wine, you only need kosher food and you don't work on the Sabbath. 645 00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:31.320 So that's the only requirement. And I think that a lot of people still 646 00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:36.000 have this image of you know, Mogen David or Mani Chevits or just you 647 00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:39.320 know, weirdness, and so they think, God, it's kosher. I 648 00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:45.880 don't know if we want that. I've actually been in restaurants or showed my 649 00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:46.840 wine to a certain sum many as who said, yeah, this wine is 650 00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:50.559 delicious, but we don't need a kosher wine. And I've said to them, 651 00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:52.039 able it doesn't even say kosher on the label. I mean, what 652 00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:55.440 is the problem here? And then they have so I think we have a 653 00:50:55.519 --> 00:51:02.480 perception problem going on and on premise in restaurants and you know we're working through 654 00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:06.239 it, but we're not out of the woods yet. Well. Funny, 655 00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:08.960 how earlier I asked you, for someone who hasn't tried your wines, what 656 00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:13.159 are they missing out on? And I think that's a very valid point, 657 00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:16.519 which is these are kosher wines, just as a side note, things that 658 00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:21.159 people should know. They will for anyone who has a preconceived idea of kosher 659 00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:24.559 wines, this will change their mind. And for everyone else who doesn't know, 660 00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:29.880 it doesn't really matter. I'll give you that. I mean again, 661 00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:34.039 it's if you really care, it's really good wine, how must be kosher. 662 00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:38.000 If you don't care, it doesn't really matter. Well, Jeff, 663 00:51:38.199 --> 00:51:40.719 we've been talking for ages and I want to thank you for joining us on 664 00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:44.360 wine soundtrack. I know you don't have a tasting room because like you said, 665 00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:49.239 oh you do have a taste room, Well you know you got No. 666 00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:54.599 We have a beautiful private tasting room that we do tastings by appointment and 667 00:51:54.639 --> 00:52:00.519 it's gorgeous, and that's inside the winery. And then we also and where 668 00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:04.519 is that the wineries in Berkeley eleven o two sixth Street in Berkeley. And 669 00:52:04.599 --> 00:52:12.000 we also have a concert series on our wine patio which is open on weekends 670 00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:20.440 from the twelve to five and Saturdays and Sundays, and people can come in 671 00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:24.280 and taste our wines on the wine patio with snacks. And the concert series, 672 00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:28.119 as we know, runs April to August. It ends in time for 673 00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:32.760 harvest exactly. It ends this year August sixth. Starts April twenty third, 674 00:52:34.159 --> 00:52:38.119 Sunday afternoons, and about their fifteen concerts, about half of them are my 675 00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:44.800 band, which is called Free Run, which is in homage to the best 676 00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:47.480 wine out of the Tank First Run, and then we have some other fabulous 677 00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:52.199 bands that are also going to come through and play concerts. I love that. 678 00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:57.360 So by osmosis, the wines in barrel are hearing the music. Yeah, 679 00:52:57.559 --> 00:53:05.519 except the music's outside the vibration. The vibration rations. Well, I 680 00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:09.320 think that if you are heading up to the listeners to the San Francisco Bay 681 00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:14.400 area and you head over the bridge, to Berkeley the East Bay. You 682 00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:17.400 can go to an urban winery and have an incredible experience, listen to music, 683 00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:21.960 drink wine, and have fun. So check out Covenant Wines and Jeff, 684 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:24.400 thank you so much for joining us on Wine Soundtrack. And Alison, 685 00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:29.239 thank you so much for having me on your soundtrack, The Wine Soundtrack. 686 00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:34.480 Yes, thanks for listening to a new episode of Wine Soundtrack USA. For 687 00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:38.920 details and updates, visit our website, Wine soundtracks dot com.