WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.480 I've scratched my head at what's happening at the SEC a lot. It doesn't 2 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:08.320 make a lot of sense. It's not good for keeping businesses here in the 3 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:13.039 US, encouraging innovation, and frankly, protecting my constituents. You know, 4 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:17.679 we want to protect consumers and we see an SEC that is moving in the 5 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:22.600 wrong direction. I've you know, spoken out publicly and privately in a bipartisan 6 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:33.840 way against a lot of the pushback. This content is brought to you by 7 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.039 bitco, which is one of the top crypto custodians in the crypto industry. 8 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:43.280 Bitco works with many big companies and brands such as Pantera Capital, Bitstamp, 9 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:49.679 and bitcoin Ira. Nike also selected Bitco to power its wallets for its NFTs 10 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:54.560 and bitco has many great services such as hot wallets, custodial wallets, self 11 00:00:54.640 --> 00:01:00.240 managed cold wallets, and NFT wallets. Many institutions trust bitgo with its top 12 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.840 level security and incredible services such as being able to deploy your capital while it's 13 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:10.319 in custody, which includes lending, borrowing, tradings, taking DeFi access and 14 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:14.079 more. If you'd like to learn more about bitco, please visit bitgo dot 15 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:17.840 com. Link in the description. Welcome to the Thinking Crypto Podcasts. You're 16 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:22.480 home for cryptocurrency news and interviews. With me today is Congressman Wiley Nickel, 17 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:26.239 who's a Democrat out of North Carolina. Congressman Nickel, great to have you 18 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.200 on. Thanks for having me. It's great to see you, Congressman. 19 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.640 There's lots to talk about as it relates to crypto in the United States, 20 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:38.799 whether that's the SEC or crypto regulations themselves. But I would love to get 21 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:42.000 to know you a bit better. First, tell us about where you're from, 22 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:45.040 where'd you grow up, and what made you want to get into politics. 23 00:01:45.879 --> 00:01:48.799 Yeah. I grew up all over the country. My mom was in 24 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.640 TV news, so we moved around a lot as a kid. I live 25 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:56.560 in Kerry, North Carolina right now, and for me, it was always 26 00:01:56.599 --> 00:01:59.840 about fixing a broken healthcare system. That's what got me into politics. My 27 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:05.120 father died from cancer at an early age, so you know, the work 28 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:08.800 that we are doing and still need to do to fix a healthcare system isn't 29 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:14.719 responsive to the needs of the American people is the thing that got me into 30 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:20.360 it. And I've worked for every major presidential candidate for close to twenty years 31 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:23.479 either at the White House or on the campaign as a staff member, and 32 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:29.280 now my first term in Congress. Congressman, I hope you don't mind me 33 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:32.280 asking this question, but it's more personal for me because sometimes I get frustrated 34 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:37.919 with the government's system. Maybe I'm a bit impatient, and sometimes it seems 35 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:40.840 government can get out of its own way sometimes to get things done. And 36 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:46.680 sometimes that's because of a divided Congress. But how do you remain optimistic as 37 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.520 someone who's in the mix doing all these things. It's tough. It's tough 38 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:55.240 to be optimistic in this Congress. We just haven't gotten almost anything done. 39 00:02:55.800 --> 00:03:00.800 I've learned in my time in Washington that we are good in Congress at doing 40 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:05.159 nothing. That's the easiest default. So you've got to really work. And 41 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:09.560 you know, I'm part of a dwindling group of people in the middle who 42 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:15.360 are you know, screaming, yelling and fighting like hell to make this place 43 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:19.319 work, to work across the island a bipartisan way, you know, And 44 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:22.840 it's one of the things that you're looking at things you can do to fix, 45 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:25.719 you know, the mess that you see in Washington. It's jerrymandering in 46 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:31.360 the House. We have over ninety percent of the seats, our safe Democrat 47 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:37.240 seats or safe Republican seats. My colleagues, some are amazing and wonderful people, 48 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:40.360 but they only need to win their Democrat or Republican primaries to get here 49 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:44.439 and to stay here. There's less than ten percent of the seats that are 50 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:47.759 truly responsive and could go either way in November. We need a lot more 51 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:52.599 of those. That's one of the things that I'm fighting to fix. And 52 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:58.120 if you're going to put your finger on something for why we have such dysfunction 53 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:02.560 here in Washington, that's one of the issues. And is it you know, 54 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:06.879 maybe we do have these lull moments where we sit on our laurels and 55 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:12.199 no one gets things done. But then pain comes, right there's situations that 56 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:14.280 come to our front door and it's like, okay, we got to take 57 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:16.600 action. We got to get past the jerrymandering and all these things. So 58 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:20.279 is it kind of is cyclical? Right? We go through these cycles where 59 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.639 things are not moving, but then people start to really feel the pain and 60 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:28.040 then we get moving. Yeah, I mean, you know, the deadlines 61 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.600 have been you know, one of the only saving graces for getting things done. 62 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:34.279 Whether it's raising the debt ceiling or passing a budget. You know, 63 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:38.759 with a government shutdown, we've had deadlines and we have to respond. That's 64 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:44.800 been something that we've barely been able to do. But you know, that's 65 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:48.120 one of the things that helps us move along. But what we really do 66 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:53.959 need are we need voters who are able to punish politicians who you know, 67 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.759 who aren't serving the needs of the American people. And with jerry mandering, 68 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:01.399 you know, there's far too little of it. Now, let's talk about 69 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:08.199 crypto. We are seeing the next layer of the Internet being built with blockchain 70 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:12.439 and crypto and tokenization and much more, and there's an opportunity for the United 71 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:15.920 States to be a leader here. We haven't made some progress, but we 72 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:20.240 still don't have comprehensive crypto regulations, and we see certain agencies like the SEC 73 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:26.639 are taking advantage of that and attacking good actors. And you know, we're 74 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.000 losing out jobs, Jobs are going overseas, but we want to keep those 75 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:31.759 jobs here. We want to get the economic benefits the same way we did 76 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:35.800 with the Internet version one point zero, with Google and Amazon and much more. 77 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.800 What are your thoughts on this situation and how we can get this right. 78 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.720 Yeah, it's a big deal. It's one of the things we're going 79 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.439 to look back on in this Congress. And if we can get legislation done 80 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:51.040 on stable coin, on crypto and digital assets, you know, we're going 81 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:55.120 to look back and say we actually accomplished something that made a huge difference. 82 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:58.680 And this is much like the dawn of the Internet, what we're going to 83 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:02.879 be able to do with you know, with crypto, with stable coins, 84 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:08.839 uh, you know Web three. These are things that have the ability to 85 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:13.439 transform the lives of the people that I serve in a positive way. And 86 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:15.120 we got to get clear rules of the road here. That's one of the 87 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:19.199 things I've been fighting and pushing for in my time in Congress. I serve 88 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:24.680 on the House Financial Services Committee, the Committee of Jurisdiction on these issues. 89 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:28.600 We've started working on this issue in a bipartisan way, and I'm hopeful we're 90 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:32.240 gonna have some progress in this Congress. What are your thoughts on what's happening 91 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:36.199 at the SEC though they seem to be running a muck here and cheer agencer 92 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:42.000 Uh, going back on things you've said over the years, even before Congress, 93 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:46.439 and now it seems it's all it's an all at war and attack on 94 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.000 the crypto industry. I know recently you partner with your colleagues to push back 95 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:55.040 on SAB one two one or one twenty one. What do you think about 96 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:59.000 what's happening at the SEC. You know, I I've scratched my head at 97 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.600 what's happening with SEC a lot. It doesn't make a lot of sense. 98 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:06.800 It's not good for keeping businesses here in the US, encouraging innovation and and 99 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:12.839 frankly, protecting my constituents. You know, we want to protect consumers and 100 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:15.879 we see an SEC that is moving in the wrong direction. I've you know, 101 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:20.560 spoken out publicly and privately in a bipartisan way against a lot of the 102 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:27.639 pushback. But but it's it's it's you know, fairly a fairly hostile regulatory 103 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:31.920 body for for digital assets, and it's just so easy to take a laptop 104 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:35.279 and move overseas, and we don't want to see that happen here in the 105 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:41.920 US. Absolutely. Now, I know the initial vote on to get SAB 106 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:45.519 one two one repealed has taken place, and then it has to go to 107 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:47.680 the House floor. What can you tell us there when that vote may take 108 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:53.560 place? Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna happen soon. We passed the resolution 109 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:57.600 against SAB one twenty one out a committee in a bipartisan way. I was 110 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:03.040 part of a smaller group of Democrats to joined my Republican colleagues on that issue. 111 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:05.639 I think when we get to the floor, you're going to see a 112 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:11.480 larger number of Democrats standing, you know, with with my Republican colleagues on 113 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:16.959 this issue. It's it's a place where the SEC needs to go through the 114 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:22.920 rulemaking process or better yet, we need legislation from Congress to provide clarity and 115 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:28.040 guidance. We see though that the checks and balances of the government seem to 116 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:31.879 be working, where the courts are handing a lot of losses to the SEC 117 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:37.200 where they acted arbitrary or capricious, not abiding by the law on these things. 118 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:43.440 Is there a way for the House Financial Services Committee to hold the SEC 119 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.480 accountable as an agency? Maybe it's reducing their budget, maybe it's other ways. 120 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:52.360 How can they be held accountable? Well, you know, we've certainly 121 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.759 in a bipartisan way, we've made our feelings known in Congress, and so 122 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.600 Gary Gensler is a smart guy. He sees the writing on the wall on 123 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.039 a lot of these issues. So it is my hope that he saves the 124 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:09.960 industry and the country a lot of trouble and moderates his approach, and that 125 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:13.399 means, you know, more caret and less stick. And if he does 126 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:18.960 that, I think we're going to be much better off. Do you have 127 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:22.519 any thoughts on what took place recently where the SEC got sanctioned in the debt 128 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.840 Box case they also made well it was not fully confirmed yet, but they're 129 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:33.000 going after Ethereum now the second largest crypto, trying to classified as a security 130 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.120 Any thoughts on what took place there? Yeah, I mean the debt Box 131 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:41.799 case was very disappointing because the taxpayers are going to be the ones responsible to 132 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:46.320 pay the bills here when they got sanctioned like that, we got the US 133 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:48.559 governments to pay those legal fees. So, you know, I think that's 134 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:54.200 certainly just another proof point for why regulation by enforcement isn't doing any good and 135 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:58.120 is the wrong approach on this issue. And at time, you know, 136 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.639 like you said, you know, time and time again, we're seeing victories 137 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:09.279 in court for an SEC that is acting you know, on its own out 138 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:13.120 of step with the wishes of Congress and we have a chance to make our 139 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:18.240 voice clear in the US Congress with SAB one twenty one and a number of 140 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:20.360 these issues. You know, going back to what I was talking about earlier 141 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:24.840 about it comes to a point where there is pain and then people that start 142 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.320 to move and they start to stay action. There's a level of urgency. 143 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:33.639 So when do you think we get to that point for the House to get 144 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:37.519 the let's say the f T bill out the House of stable corn regulations, 145 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:39.519 it has to go to the Senate and it has to go to President. 146 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:41.039 What do you think we get to that point where it's like, Okay, 147 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:46.639 we got to get this done. It's too long. There's too much confusion 148 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.320 happening with the agencies, SEC and c FDC. I notice is a hard 149 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:54.639 question, but when do you think we see cryptoregulations getting pushed through? Well, 150 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:56.759 you know, I think the first thing for people kind of watching Congress 151 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:01.200 is, you know, we've got a real problem with Republican chaos and confusion. 152 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.799 They are my Republican House colleagues are at war with each other. They 153 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:09.679 just can't get their act together. You have Republican after Republican quitting because they're 154 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:13.879 just fed up with it. So they now, you know, within days, 155 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:18.360 will have an effective one seat majority in Congress after retirements and flipping the 156 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.240 George Santos seat, so it's really tough for them to get a lot of 157 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:24.960 things on it. We probably had Kevin McCarthy still and you know, hadn't 158 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.679 had the mess that ensued after that, you know, I think we would 159 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:33.360 have already voted on you know, digital assets you know, and stable coin 160 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:35.360 legislation on the floor of the House. So the next thing for those two 161 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.279 issues, you know, passing a stable coin bill, which I think we're 162 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:45.240 very close to with you know, our ranking member Maxine Waters and Democrats talk 163 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:46.759 to the Fed about it. There. I think what I would say is 164 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:50.679 a very good place for getting stable coins done. And then the digital assets 165 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:56.440 market structure built to get you know, regulations you know, for the for 166 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:01.840 the for the industry here, rules of the road, you know, that's 167 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:05.919 what we're pushing for. Those are the two things where you're going to see 168 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:09.159 votes on both of them in the coming months. And for me, as 169 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:13.440 a moderate Democrat, I'm trying to do all I can to boost the score 170 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:18.639 of Democrats on these issues when they get to the floor so that we have 171 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.360 the momentum to get it done through the Senate. That's the main thing. 172 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.679 The main task at hand for me is how can we continue to get more 173 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:31.399 and more Democrats on board making the case, the progressive case for why crypto 174 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.279 is so good, why you know, we need to do everything we can 175 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.759 to support this emerging blockchain industry has a chance to just change the lives for 176 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:45.000 all of our constituents in a really positive way. Yeah. Absolutely. What 177 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:48.159 are your thoughts on the Bitcoin ETF launches? I mean, all of Wall 178 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.679 Street have issued these ets and the inflows of an incredible and it shows that 179 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:58.159 people were clamoring for it as huge demand. Now ris can offer it to 180 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:01.120 their clients, people can put in their retirement counts. What are your thoughts 181 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:03.399 on the launch of the ETFs. You know, it's it's an issue that 182 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:05.519 you know, as soon as I got to Congress, we were pushing to 183 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.879 to you know, support the ability to do these ETFs. I think we've 184 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:13.519 seen a good roll out with the Bitcoin et F and uh, you know 185 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:18.720 again that was a place where the sec didn't want to act and you know, 186 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.120 and the courts you know, required them to do it, so uh, 187 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:26.080 you know, I think I think the the what we've seen so far 188 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.879 with the Bitcoin ETFs is is a good sign and a reason why we need 189 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.799 to, you know, give folks more regulatory clarity by passing a bill through 190 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:39.519 Congress. Yeah, for sure, I'd love to get your thoughts on CBDCs. 191 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:43.039 There have been talks about the FED working on a digital dollar. I 192 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.600 think we see where this is headed. We have stable coins and money on 193 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.200 the blockchain, and governments around the world are trying to create their own central 194 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:54.519 bank digital currencies. However, people are concerned about privacy and and you know, 195 00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:58.600 potentially a draconian government pulling the levers, cutting off money and things like 196 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.440 that. I don't think that's going to happen here in the United States. 197 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.320 We have the Constitution at least, and I'm hoping the digital dollar that they 198 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:09.519 put together is aligned with the Constitution. I would love to get your take 199 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.240 on that, you know, I think we're a lot further away on CBC's 200 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.519 and Congress. We got a lot more stuff we need to do and finish 201 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:22.919 first. I am the co sponsor of a bill that says that the only 202 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.080 person who should be making a decision about cbccs is the United States Congress, 203 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.840 So I think that's the first place we got to start. This is something 204 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:33.799 that you know, an administration or a regulator shouldn't be dealing with. This 205 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:39.440 is something where Congress needs to step in and make our voice clear on what 206 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.039 we do and how that all works. And I think we're kind of further 207 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.759 away, but the privacy issues too are a huge piece of all of this. 208 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:52.960 And my hope is that when we can start functioning as a US Congress 209 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.799 and getting things done, we do a global privacy bill across all industries, 210 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:03.919 because the rest of the the world is getting way further along on these issues 211 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.559 and we're not. We're you know, we are again doing what we do 212 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:11.879 best in Congress, doing nothing, but we got to act on privacy in 213 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:18.440 a global way. Absolutely. What are your thoughts on digital identity? And 214 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.600 once again, these things seem like they're down to road on the horizon for 215 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:26.440 the entire world because of the next layer on top of the Internet is blockchain 216 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.159 where you have money or identity and so forth. But this could also maybe 217 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:37.720 improve the voting system where maybe there's less voter fraud or errors and things along 218 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:39.639 those lines. What are your thoughts on that? And you know, are 219 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.639 we like ten years away from that where everyone you know, they have their 220 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.240 idea on the blockchain, it's verified by scanning a cure code something like that. 221 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.080 What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean I think that's sort of 222 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:54.399 the next step that we get to as a Congress. You know, I 223 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.279 think the direction we're moving is in a good one. You know, a 224 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:02.919 lot of privacy concerns that are very appropriate there. But you know, I 225 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.200 just look at the way that we you know, that all the improvements we're 226 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.360 making can help consumers, you know number one. And and frankly, you 227 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:12.080 know, as a Democrat, I want to you know, say this. 228 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:15.559 We represent a lot of people who are struggling to make ends meet, and 229 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:21.799 poor people spend so much of their money transferring money, payday loans, moving 230 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:25.440 money you know by Western Union these When you do this, it takes a 231 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:30.320 huge chunk out of what's already you know, a difficult and low salary to 232 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:33.840 begin with, you know, and if we when we get this right, 233 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:36.279 we're going to be able to move money. We're gonna be able to transfer 234 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:40.600 funds in a way that will save folks a lot of money. That's a 235 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:44.320 good thing for the people we represent. And really the place that I look 236 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:48.200 in addition to I think that the big point to kind of what you're getting 237 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:51.919 at, too, is the strength of the digital dollar for the United States. 238 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:53.440 That's something that is so important in this whole thing. You know, 239 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:57.279 where we're going to be in ten, fifteen, twenty years. We are 240 00:16:57.320 --> 00:17:03.000 going to continue to chase the way we do business in the world around the 241 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.759 world, and if we if we bear ahead in the sand, other countries 242 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:10.680 are going to advance. The innovation is going to happen overseas, those jobs 243 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:12.799 are going to go overseas, and we're going to be playing catchup. And 244 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:18.839 that's not good for our economy where we need to be and continue to stay 245 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.079 the global reserve currency. And unless we get serious about digital assets, we're 246 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.559 going to keep losing ground. Yeah, and one of my major concerns is 247 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:33.839 the United States dollar losing reserves. That is because I don't know China's digital 248 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:37.759 y wan or whatever it is, right, the Russian ruble, I don't 249 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.799 know. But you know, as these we're in a global competition, and 250 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:45.799 as these folks go to other countries and they help develop their economies they inject 251 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:51.759 their digital y wan and digital currency, and where's the United States? Right? 252 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:53.759 We don't have our version yet, and not that it's not that we 253 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:57.240 have to have a digital dollar. Maybe it's a stable coin or something. 254 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.319 But you know, that's a concern. And we see bricks countries and these 255 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:06.240 there's all types of talks and grand standing and things that are happening. So 256 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.599 I hope the United States moves sooner than later because the reserve currency status is 257 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:15.880 a threat. I think it's a huge issue here. And you know, 258 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:21.519 the you know, the European Union as well as China, Russia. You 259 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:26.359 know, they want to you know, continue to make gains on our status 260 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:27.920 is the global reserve currency and they and they have you know that. You 261 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.839 know, we're seeing we're seeing that shift, and you know, this is 262 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:36.240 an issue where when we look back in ten or twenty years, we're either 263 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:37.599 going to get it right, you know, and we're going to continue to 264 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:42.839 have that elevated status that allows you know, the people I represent to borrow 265 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:48.480 money for less, allows our sanctions to work so much better because of that. 266 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.319 So we got to make sure we're doing everything we can to preserve that 267 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.480 and as we transform and change to a digital dollar, you know, you 268 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.559 know, and you and have that more and more relevant in people's lives. 269 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:06.400 That's the thing that motivates me to you know, push on this issue, 270 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.200 to try to get something done at Congress for sure. Now there was also 271 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:12.880 news I saw that you're planning to run for Senate in twenty twenty six. 272 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.640 I'm a rookie to all this. So how does that work like leaving Congress 273 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.079 going to the Senate. Yeah, I'm not doing it voluntarily. You know, 274 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:26.680 I won a fifty to fifty district. The district I got elected to 275 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.079 Congress and is one that our courts drew. You know. It wasn't a 276 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:33.000 Democratic district, wasn't a Republican district, you know, barely Republican district, 277 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:38.240 but it could have gone either way. And Republicans in the legislature drew maps 278 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:42.559 for themselves and drew me out of a district, so I didn't have a 279 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:48.359 district I could run in for re election. But you know, I'm doing 280 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:52.680 everything I can to fight for fair maps in our state, certainly not giving 281 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.559 out or going out quietly in the fight to make sure, you know, 282 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.119 we have maps that allow voters to choose their politicians the other way around. 283 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.599 So in two years, we're gonna have a seat for the US Senate coming 284 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:08.440 up, and you know, we're doing everything we can to take a real 285 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:14.640 good look at that Senate race because they can't gerrymander the boundaries of the state 286 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.559 of North Carolina. I got some wrap up questions here for you. First, 287 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.039 if you could create your own metaverse, because we see the metaverse is 288 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:26.640 being built, what would the theme be? You know my kids, my 289 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:33.440 kids have the Facebook metaverse where I do fruit and ninja. But you know, 290 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.440 I don't know. I'm so busy with politics. I don't have a 291 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:38.119 lot of time to get on that. But I would love I would love 292 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:42.119 if there was some sort of educational app where people could come and see how 293 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:45.319 I vote, see how it works on the floor when we're kind of having 294 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:51.079 the sausage made in Congress. Because it's it's really just a totally unique thing. 295 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:55.079 I need to figure out how I can can get that experience into something 296 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.200 that you can share with people, because every day we're on the floor voting 297 00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:03.400 and and I think that there's there's something cool there that's fascinating. I love 298 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.400 that idea education as a whole is going to be a big part of the 299 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:10.720 metaverse where you can tap into different parts of the world and learn things. 300 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:14.200 But to see, like you said, how the sausage is made, or 301 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.720 maybe you don't want to see it because like you're saying, it can be 302 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.440 rough at times to get things done. But I would be fascinated. And 303 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.880 to be on the floor with you guys, and to see what's being said 304 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:29.079 and how it's being said and so forth, that would be pretty amazing. 305 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:33.079 So I like that idea. Yeah. And as a district though, we've 306 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:38.119 got epic games in and around where I'm my district in North Carolina, so 307 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:42.759 you know, obviously a big, a big player there. Now I've got 308 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:49.480 some rapid fire questions for you versus favorite food cheeseburgers, I make a great 309 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:56.039 cheeseburger, and favorite musician or band, you know they have so many. 310 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:59.799 But I was just in Vegas, uh, and I saw you two at 311 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:04.240 the Sphere totally amazing. Recommend that to anybody to see that. This just 312 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:10.680 amazing concert with the biggest screen in the world. That's amazing. I have 313 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:15.759 that on my bucket list to do. Uh. Favorite movie Shawshank Redemption. 314 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:21.240 That's a good one. Favorite book, you know, I have so many. 315 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:25.880 I just finished The Wager, a really good book by the guy who 316 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:34.799 did The Killers of the Flower Moon, the the the Leonardo DiCaprio movie, 317 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:41.640 but a great book about you know, British seamen and you know, hundreds 318 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.880 of years ago, really fascinating stuff. And finally, when you're not doing 319 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.960 your congressional duties, what are you doing for fun as a hobby? You 320 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.279 know, I just love the job. You know, being in Congress is 321 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.920 amazing, But you know, I when I have time, you know, 322 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.400 I love running. I run high with my kids is a big thing. 323 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:06.279 We got great places to hike in North Carolina. So that's that's, you 324 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:10.079 know, the stuff that I like doing. Honest with Nicole, thank you 325 00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:12.039 so much for the work you're doing on behalf of the crypto industry and trying 326 00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:17.119 to push things forward. Thank you for joining me. It was great to 327 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:17.440 see you.