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Made a decision. I'll face sunny
sad on. I had a vision too.

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We welcome to Thursday special guest episode
of A for Crying Out Loud and

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we have a special guest in studio
Jillian Lauren, who, by the way,

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is one of our most memorable I
just told her this off air,

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one of our most memorable guests that
we've ever had on for Crying Out Loud

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of all time. Yes, she
wrote the book Some Girls about her time

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in a harem and you told us
the whole story. And it's a beautifully

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written book. That book too,
Yes, and it's so it was so

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honest and like but entertaining, like
we were just talking about before, and

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I feel like kind of a breakthrough
book. That book did really well,

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right did Yeah, it was a
great book. Know, it was like

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they were just throwing spaghetti at the
wall. They were like, sure,

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you're a slut, and maybe this
book will do. Like it was like

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maybe something will happen. And it
was the little engine that could you know

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it like you know, it blew
up and it's been translated in eighteen languages.

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And I always think, you know, everyone's like, oh, you

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know, you just have this wildlife, this wild wildlife. I'm like,

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I do it's true, you know, I guess if you doesn't feel like

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it right when it's your life,
right. But also you know I'm a

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writer, yes, right, you
know plenty of people have wild lives.

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But you are already a writer before
you went, before you wrote Some Girls,

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you were are writer? Correct?
Yeah, I mean I wouldn't say

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I would have identified that way like
i'd be. I think my passport actually

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said performance artists. Oh yeah,
and that might be actually closer to the

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truth than anything else. But yeah, I had a passport that said my

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occupation was performance artists. Can I
do weally just revisit that for one second

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for people that don't know, how
did you end up in a harem?

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Well, I was trying to be
an actor. I was living in New

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York. Is this how every horrible
story starts? It really is, isn't

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it. And I went to college
very early. I went to college when

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I was sixteen, so I was
at NYU, you know. And as

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my fifteen year old sun says,
now, I don't think that was a

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very good idea. Mom. That
doesn't sound very safe, mom, And

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I'm like, oh, thank you, Lord, like I did something right,

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and it definitely wasn't that. But
you know, I left MU.

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I was going on these auditions,
and I was working on a vampire movie,

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Victim one every time, like always
a victim, never the purb,

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Victim one, great tagline, and
I made up right there on the spot.

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You know, I had a tearorway
cheerleader uniform, like I was running

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through some beach in the Hamptons and
freezing cold with you know, a cheerleader

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uniform that came off and nieces right. And there I met a young woman

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who also was in the same kind
of you know, trying to make it

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and also doing everything you have to
do to live in New York, which

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is basically donate a kidney, and
and she was like, you are ruining

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your knees acting like a stripper.
And I actually have this audition that you

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know, you can make way more
money in short of time. And I

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was like, oh, this friend, this new friend, and I went,

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I went to the audition and I
got it, and then they called

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me and said, actually, that
wasn't an audition. It was an invitation

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to come to the parties of the
richest man in the world, which he's

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been knocked off into like number four
now, oh oh, but he's still

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up there. He's still up there. Yeah, I mean they have such

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oil reserves. It's really about resources, right, It's tiny country. But

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so did you know anything about it
at the time. I never even heard

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of it. Right. They were
like, your all right, how much

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money? Well you know it was
They said twenty thousand dollars for two weeks,

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and I was like, I've never
heard that amount of money before in

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my life. I mean, I
left for Brunei three days after I was

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eighteen. Oh my god, wow, and I had already been trying to

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support myself in New York and I
was just like, this is gonna be

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a breeze and a half. And
they're like, all you do is sing

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songs and dance, and I'm like, I'm pretty sure that's not all I'm

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gonna have to do. But so
you did this. But I'm not an

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idiot and I'm not a diplomat.
You now, I thought, probably,

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yeah, that you know, there
was going to be some shady ship going

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on, and they're absolutely was and
did for the next year and a half.

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But I remember you said that Prince
Jeffrey was that same. Yes,

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Prince Jeffrey, you never called him
that. They have to call him Robin,

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Robin Robin, I know, isn't
It's like so lame like the Sultan.

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You had to call him Marty.
Oh, Marty, I know.

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I was like, like my uncle
Marty, like you couldn't know if you

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can just pick well, because they
do. They also like Robin. Yeah,

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you have to call him Robin.
You call him prince like greg or

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like I know Marty, know,
like just Chris Elmsworth is my you said

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he was kind of cute right like
you were he was. I mean,

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you know, I'm a little short
for me. He always said we're flats.

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I was like, I'd rather die, but you know, little short.

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And but he was thirty thirty something
early thirties when I was, you

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know, in my very I'm just
like not early Jean, like my late

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teens, right, and uh,
you know that just seemed like so old.

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Any younger ones around, any younger
guys. Well, he had an

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entourage, okay, but all of
them had girlfriends within the harem. So

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it was just a big party every
single night, right right, And but

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like his entourage, there maybe ten
of them, some of them, I

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liked one of the others. You
know, some were cool, but they

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would have a girlfriend there. But
like if you were Prince Jeffrey's girlfriend,

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then you were not up for grabs. I feel like in the story,

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I mean, I read it so
long ago, but I feel like I

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remember that you were you kind of
were in and out of favor, like

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you were uh huh, like you
were you were the prize. You were

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like number one for a little while
right now, no number number two,

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oh number two, okay, and
two weeks led more and it did not

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end up being two weeks a year
and aye, eighteen months. Wow,

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Jesus, I now, and then
you went home and didn't you go back?

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Yeah? I yes, I went
went room and I went back like

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there was this I had this whole
I know. It's you know, it's

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actually like if you're talking about sex
trafficking, right, which I don't tend

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to like hit that really hard because
I feel it's the minute that people stop

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listening, you know. But I
was a teenager, yeah, you know,

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and I was, you know,
very quickly sort of drawn into this

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thing that was presented as one thing
and then it was actually another thing.

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I mean, and when I talk
about it, I always say, you

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know, I know it sounds like
when you read the shopping chapter, Like

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when I got sent shopping and Singapore
and they closed down all the malls and

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I had a guard with me with
the Luviton sack full of cash, just

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saying like hit Chanel, hit like
every designer store and get everything you want.

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I was like that mom at Toys
r US or whatever that is now

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just like they're like, you have
fifteen minutes to get every single cabbage BATCHKT

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right, and like they read that
and go like wow, it sounds so

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glamorous and fantastic, and I wish
I could do that. And then,

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you know, I mean the truth
was. And also now I look back

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and I'm like, could you be
a little more fun? Like does everything

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have to be a bummer? And
we can move into my next book with

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that so much more. He does
have to be a bummer. I came.

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You know, everyone's like, oh, the shopping trip where you get

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to buy every Harmony gown. You
know there's no price limit. I'm throwing

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Chanel purses at them like just just
these and that one too, and that

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also and that sounds like your dream
but like, really what I did was

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go home after that and just like
cry right because you know, there were

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fifteen suitcases in front of me and
I was not an idiot, not then

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or not ever, and I was
like this is disgusting, you know,

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like, yes, I did just
get to run through a mall and throw

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Chanel purses that you know, and
I did the dumbest thing. Do you

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want to know what I did?
Yeah? Like I was like, I

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just have to clan. I had
one of those ray Condo moments. Don't

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do it. I was like,
this doesn't bring me joy to touch this

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Chanel person. I'm giving it to
my babysitter. I'm giving them all to

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my babysitter, all of it.
I know, I have like one thing

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left. Wow, I say,
I was just like I gave it all

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away, right, And I mean
I can't say you know that that process

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for me was you know, I'm
like, dumbass, you couldn't have sold

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it in the real real But also
kind of I don't know that there would

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have been enough money right like then
to pay for me just saying fuck you,

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this isn't ever what really mattered to
me. Do you feel like writing

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the book in some ways helped you
process, you know, what you went

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through, and maybe some of the
trauma from that like helped you figure out

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a way to look at it.
Or do you think it was more a

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time like now as a real grown
woman you can come back and go as

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woman. Yeah, I know I
hate that I'm a woman. I think

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that writing is not therapy. However, the writing process for me has given

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me a way to frame the world
right, it has given It's given me

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a reason to pay attention. And
and yes I was a writer ish when

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I went entrepreneur, but really I
started being a writer there frankly because it

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was so damn boring, you know, And all of a sudden my journals

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turned into and not like I need
to lose five pounds and Chris is real

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cute, and you know, I
really need to do better in juggling class,

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you know, in experimental theater school. You know how much I impressed

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my kids my juggling skills. Now, you never know how these things are

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gonna can juggle. You can juggle. These things are gonna turn out.

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I can juggle a little bit,
only three. I can juggle. I

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can juggle three, all right.
I can do a juggle. Three,

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I don't make me add a fourth
and why? But really, I don't

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think writing is therapy. I think
you need therapy for the writing. However,

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like writing has given me meaning,
yeah, as a person and as

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an artist, and a way to
grapple with stuff that you know. I've

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been talking to my husband lately.
I'm like, did you even know that

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this, this, and this happened? And he's like, not, like

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that was not one of the things
you mentioned in the nineteen episodes of sexual

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abuse or sex. You know,
writing has given me a way to take

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that narrative and make it mine.
I can't say it fixed it fixed me,

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or it was cathartic, or but
it's given me a purpose in life.

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Well, let's I think, let's
take a quick break. We'll get

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to her new book. Okay,
we're back. So you've written some books

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in between. This book is something
very different for you. And it's called

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Behold the Months her a very attention
grabbing title, I think. And it's

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about the serial killer Sam Little and
you, like a lot of us,

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especially women, were already into true
crime, already fascinated by true crime.

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I want to hear. I have
read some of this book so far.

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I only got the book Full Disclosure
a couple of days ago, but I've

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already it's already can't put it down. My husband was like, what are

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you reading? Like constantly, like
every few minutes. I was like picking

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the book back up, and he's
like, what is that. I was

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like, She's going to be a
guest on her show, and it's so

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good. And this book has everything. So it's basically how you found this

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case and how you got into it, and then your interviews with detectives and

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your own research, but a lot
of it is and then your meetings with

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this serial killer, which I want
to hear all about. But then also,

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as the beautiful writer that you are, there are all of these chapters

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in the books where you put yourself
in the body of the victims and told

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their story as best as you could
put it together. So I mean,

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just just like, start at the
beginning, tell us how it came came

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about. I highly recommend this book. It's amazing. I highly recommend this

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book too. And I've never felt
about any of my books like I'm not

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a message driven writer, you know, I'm not like writing a book to

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convince you of something or like I'm
I'm like sharing an experience of life and

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this world and my unique as I
for detail, perhaps you know, is

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all I ever hoped for. But
I've I've never stood on a soapbox before,

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and I will do it for this
book. Because I started by working

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on a novel. I was writing
a mystery novel. I have been obsessed

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with mysteries. I've read every Agatha
Christie book before I was twelve years old.

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And I just asked myself, you
know, I'm a little bit sick

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of me being the center of the
narrative right like everything it's like memoir memoir.

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And I also do have a lovely
little novel called Pretty in there.

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But what has really caught fire have
been my memoirs. And I was like,

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I want out, I want out
of this story. So I'm gonna

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do this audacious thing. I was
writing a fiction book. I got an

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interview with this incredible detective. Her
name is Mitzi Roberts. She works at

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the Homicide Division here in LA which
is they're the fancy detectives that you see

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in all the shows U And actually, if you're a reader of Michael Connolly,

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who's been a great champion of this
book, and everyone is a reader

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of Michael Connolly. I think his
character, Renee Ballard is based on Mitsy

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Roberts. And through Michael, I
was able to get this coveted interview with

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like the hottest detective and I was
talking to her about the Black Dahlia case.

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I was talking to her about historical
cases. And at the very end

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of the interview, because I'd like
to leave it on a high note,

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I said, you know, what
are you the most proud of She said,

207
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I'm proud of them all. But
I did catch this serial killer once,

208
00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,680
and that was pretty cool. I
was just like, I blew this

209
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,880
entire interview. You're like, what
what? I buried the lead. I

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blew the whole interview. All the
iced tea is like down to the water,

211
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you know, And I was just
like, all right, give it

212
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:22,960
to be quick, you know,
like exactly feeling a need for some I

213
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:30,759
don't even know what dessert is.
But she did tell me, and I

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00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:36,400
went and looked him up, Samuel
Little, and she told me he was

215
00:20:36,519 --> 00:20:44,839
an underreported serial killer. They got
him on three counts of murder and they

216
00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:52,240
did it through a grant through the
Department of justice. As forensics have advanced,

217
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,319
you know, we can look at
cold case evidence in a new way

218
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:03,000
with new materials, and so they
were able. They got a hit,

219
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,799
they got a hit, they got
another hit, and now you have a

220
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:15,119
serial killer. And so you know, I said, I called my editor

221
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,680
at New York Magazine and was like, I got a serial killer here.

222
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,799
And she was like, we're not
doing another gruesome like serial killer Store.

223
00:21:23,839 --> 00:21:29,200
You're gonna have to have an angle. And I was like, okay,

224
00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:33,359
you're an angle. I'm I'm going
to talk to this guy. And so

225
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,440
I started writing him, which is
how you do it, because you can't

226
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just like walk into a maximum ski
I'm here to see Samuel. Yes,

227
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:52,440
I would like to see sam Little
who I Maybe it made me like take

228
00:21:52,519 --> 00:22:00,640
my nose rings out at the oh. The worst was when I first showed

229
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:06,640
up at the prison. You know, my aunt is a famous psychiatrist,

230
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,440
and she told me just it's gonna
be what it's gonna be, and like

231
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she sounded sad when I was like, what's gonna be, Like, what's

232
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gonna be like to talk to a
psychopath? And she said, it's gonna

233
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be like this, he's gonna ask
you for your shirt off your back,

234
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and you're gonna give him the shirt
off your back, and at the same

235
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time he's gonna be telling you he
is stealing the shirt off your back,

236
00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:41,559
and you will still feel compelled to
give it to him. And I thought

237
00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:51,039
that was probably the best simmation what
my entire experience over years was with him,

238
00:22:51,440 --> 00:23:00,000
which is a fabulous It's a fabulous
opportunity for a journalist to have hundreds

239
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:07,240
of hours of interviews, not three
It takes more than three hours, kind

240
00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:11,079
of get it right. So you
wrote him back and forth and then tell

241
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,480
us about I thought it was so
it's so good in the book, tell

242
00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:18,839
us about like your first visit,
you were so nervous you had brought tell

243
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:26,039
us what you brought because quarters Okay, so she's looking at me like I

244
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:27,119
don't know what I brought him Like, I'm like, what did I bring?

245
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,519
Well, no, actually I still
have that. You can bring a

246
00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:40,519
clear like purse or a plastic bag. Right, So the first time I

247
00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:44,880
actually showed up with like a baggy, but then I went to Target and

248
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:51,000
got myself the proper clear purse because
you were not cool if you just had

249
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:56,240
a baggy, right, And well, I know enough scumbags who have done

250
00:23:56,319 --> 00:24:00,319
time that I called them and I
said, like, what do I do?

251
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:06,680
And they said, bring quarters for
the vending machines, because you're not

252
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:12,519
cool if you're a visitor, doesn't
bring quarters and your visitor is in some

253
00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:22,599
way in prison like a value.
Right, Like right, here's this put

254
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:29,880
together woman showing up to visit me, and she I mean put together.

255
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,519
It's like, I don't even know
what that sounds like, but you know,

256
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:44,759
let's just say aspirationally attractive. It's
a Hollywood word for like cute but

257
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:52,599
not too cute, showing up with
quarters for the vending machines. Thank you,

258
00:24:52,640 --> 00:25:00,000
Sasha, wherever you may be,
and you know, buying you wings

259
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:07,119
and funians and little Debby cakes.
Okay, so this is really off topic,

260
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,440
but it was a question that came
to my mind reading the book.

261
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:14,160
So the chicken wings, so did
they were they like not cooked yet?

262
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:21,279
Because did you have to put them
there? Or you brought no? I

263
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,480
know, you can't bring chicken wings. Okay, you can bring this a

264
00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:33,279
clear plastic baggy and if you're cool, I suggest you go to Target and

265
00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:37,720
buy one. But you could also
bring in a plast back, so you

266
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,000
can bring wings there, Yes,
in a vending machine. I know,

267
00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:49,480
right. This was very surprising for
me because I get my ideas about serial

268
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:56,839
killers from the same place we do
TV, right, and it's it's the

269
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,039
same thing with police work, you
know, like you I think a DNA

270
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:06,039
goes through in like five and a
half seconds. It No, it does.

271
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,160
For an episode that someone's writing,
it really digs like three years.

272
00:26:12,079 --> 00:26:18,599
The backup is so intense. What
did Sam do? What was his in

273
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:26,799
what years? Okay? And so
excellent question who who is this man?

274
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And what did he do? This
man? And I went in to visit

275
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and also, yes, I was
extremely surprised that there were microwaves for the

276
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,400
wings you could buy in the vending
machines, but only the visitors can use

277
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,279
the microwaves. Okay, okay,
I don't want to get bogged down in

278
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,519
chicken wings. Get to the killing, No, But it was like,

279
00:26:56,039 --> 00:27:00,720
I'll get to the killings right now, because I mean, this is the

280
00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:08,240
point where the killings started to like
pour forth. But I was expecting like

281
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:15,720
the phone and the glass and the
whole thing, and no, I was

282
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:18,880
in the family and visiting room,
like you know with convicts, and their

283
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:26,519
babies right now, and and and
a giant section for legos, like for

284
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:30,519
the kids to play, Like you
could give this man a hug. Oh

285
00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:34,000
yeah, I hugged him. But
he was a serial killer, Like you,

286
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:37,880
weren't you scared that he might like
what if he was like, oh

287
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:44,960
good, I have access to a
woman. Well he planned, he planned

288
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,559
that I'd be his last victim.
I mean, he told me as much,

289
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:56,160
and I could. But also I
know how to talk to people,

290
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:00,400
like if you just take if you
just take all the weirdness out, like

291
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:12,480
the serial killing weirdness, but forget
a forget about a downfalls and the serial

292
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,759
killing and the African adoptions and all
the rest of it. You know,

293
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:25,160
every single thing is just being present
in the moment. And what I did

294
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,000
was I remember the names of the
guards right and ask them about their kids.

295
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:37,039
And I was always in the same
place because they're always recording. Everything

296
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:44,240
I ever did with Sam was recorded. And but I felt like I could

297
00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:49,759
calculate there were this many meters between
me and the guard, and how long

298
00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:56,519
does it take to strangle someone?
Because the thing is that, to answer

299
00:28:56,519 --> 00:29:06,440
your questions, Sam was a sexual
strangler. Sam could Samuel little like sex

300
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:14,200
for him, with strangulation to the
point of death and as long and painful

301
00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:19,440
as you could possibly make it.
Like he would give CPR to his victims

302
00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:26,960
to bring them back, just to
put them down again because and what it

303
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:32,680
was like, and that would be
you know, I mean what year was

304
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,799
he doing these killings in Los Angeles? Well, Los Angeles was what he

305
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:44,319
called his killing fields. And that
is because in the eighties here in Los

306
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:55,400
Angeles a number of things happened,
crack happened. We have the first swat

307
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,799
team in the nation. So all
of a sudden, after the Watts riots

308
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:10,440
in the sixties, you know,
there are tanks in the streets of a

309
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:15,799
city. And that was the first
time paramilitary tactics I've been used. So

310
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:30,039
there were far more, like far
steeper sentences for drugs used in minority communities.

311
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:34,440
It left an entire population of women
with their asses hanging out on Figaro

312
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:42,640
Street not knowing what to do,
and they were the easiest targets. So

313
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:49,720
Sam started in seventy one. His
last murder was two thousand and five.

314
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,279
Wow. Yeah, he had a
really successful and long career if you want

315
00:30:56,279 --> 00:30:59,920
to look at it, though,
said like over ninety victims, right,

316
00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:08,200
so ninety three confessions and those were
those were not all mine. I you

317
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:15,920
know, like I got him talking, I kept him talking. I observed

318
00:31:17,119 --> 00:31:22,480
the entire judicial process that was happening. He was not my only, my

319
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:30,279
only subject in this book, but
you know, certainly a very impactful one.

320
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:37,240
And you know, so there were
ninety three confessions, and I happened

321
00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:44,400
to I just happened to land in
the middle of this federal investigation. Like

322
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,000
I was, like, I got
the underreported serial killer. Well, I

323
00:31:48,079 --> 00:31:52,240
guess what, You're not the only
one. There was also a cowboy.

324
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:59,119
There is also a Texas ranger who
is six three six seven in his hat

325
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:07,319
who is getting these confessions out of
Sam and is supposedly, like you know,

326
00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:14,319
the serial killer whisperer in the country. They just needed a Texas case

327
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:20,240
for him to be able to start
interviewing Sam. So you know, in

328
00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:25,960
a way, I was observing the
whole investigation. I wasn't just getting confessions

329
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:34,640
from him. But you know what
he did was, you know, he

330
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:40,920
had a very trajectory that's very similar
to what we're all familiar with the bundies,

331
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:46,000
the gay sies. You know,
there's usually childhood, sexual trauma,

332
00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:52,559
there's often traumatic brain injury. Now, get hit in the front of the

333
00:32:52,559 --> 00:33:01,480
head enough times, that's where our
impulse control lies, right, and born

334
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:09,920
with a certain genetic like perfect storm, right, including the ma jean,

335
00:33:10,119 --> 00:33:17,000
the warrior jean, which cops also
mostly have, which you know people in

336
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:25,279
the military have. But you know, pick your sides. So he was

337
00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:31,359
he became obsessed with necks, you
know. And he'll tell you a million

338
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:37,599
stories. Why was it was the
little redhead girl in his kindergarten class.

339
00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:45,000
It was, you know, who
just gave him snotty looks right and was

340
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:51,279
just a bitch. And he always
talked like he would do a woman voice,

341
00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:58,480
you know, and just talk with
such vicious bitchery. There was such

342
00:33:58,599 --> 00:34:07,440
hatred there. Wow. So at
one point I have two questions. One,

343
00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:10,920
this is a quick side note,
but you interviewed this guy, this

344
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:20,039
doctor James Fallon. So my husband, he's basically this doctor who who tested

345
00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:27,840
himself, who like is famous for
talking about psychopathy versus socioci sociopaths like sociopaths

346
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,599
versus psychopaths, and he there's like
a test and he tested himself and found

347
00:34:32,599 --> 00:34:38,039
out that he was a psychopath.
Well know this guy, but he's not

348
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:44,840
violent, right, you could be
another says I've I've actually threatened him.

349
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,800
I was like, I just think
you'd be the best character, Like what

350
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,639
if you were really And I'm not
saying this about doctor Fallon. He is

351
00:34:54,000 --> 00:35:01,480
a phenomenal intellect and one of the
most interesting interviews of my life. And

352
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,440
I hoped to talk to him again, but I told him, you know

353
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:14,000
what if. What happened was he
was doing two different studies in his graduate

354
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:17,039
studies. He was studying, you
know, the effects of Alzheimer's on the

355
00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:23,719
brain, and he was using pet
scans, right, and also psychopathy.

356
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:31,360
And then there was just he used
his family as as a control group group,

357
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:37,119
right, And then he was like, well, one of the one

358
00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:43,840
of the wrong things wound up in
this pile, like one of the things

359
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,400
from my family wound up in the
psychopath pile. And then he was like,

360
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:55,239
oh, it's me. And he
went his mom and was like have

361
00:35:55,519 --> 00:36:00,559
you thought this along? And they
were like, yeah, well we all

362
00:36:00,639 --> 00:36:05,960
kind of know there's something wrong with
you. This sounds like about right,

363
00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:13,079
but yeah, he's a non violent
psychopathy you know, psychopathy, sociopathy.

364
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,639
There are ideas that they're the same
thing that they're different things. Really,

365
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:25,000
the diagnosis is anti social personality disorder
right, right, and that does show

366
00:36:25,079 --> 00:36:31,320
up like if you're if you're scanning
a brain, you're going to have way

367
00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:37,320
less activity in your frontal lobe,
right, which is like our executive functioning.

368
00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:44,960
That's what lets us think critically and
say like maybe even if you want

369
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:52,360
to kill, don't kill, right, you know, just don't kill people.

370
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:02,760
And also, you know, less
less functioning in the inmangdala and the

371
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,480
sort of reptile brain that we have. That's you know, our fight or

372
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:15,000
flight response, you know, because
they're predators, you know, it's it's

373
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:22,880
a it's a kill response to the
world. So my husband interviewed doctor Fallon

374
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,960
as well a lot like years ago
and had told me he was working on

375
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,119
some show and he came home and
he was like, oh my gosh,

376
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:31,719
I interviewed this guy and he's so
interesting, say Irvine. But he was

377
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,000
like, and this is before I
read this part of your book. I

378
00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:38,719
said, oh, there's a chapter
about this doctor that I remember is the

379
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,039
same when you saw And he was
like, oh, yeah, he's so

380
00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:45,719
weird, he said. He greeted
me in these like short shorts and put

381
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,039
out this like charcuterie board, and
he's like and then he and then he

382
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,480
was looking at me while he was
like cutting sausage, like and then I

383
00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:55,280
started reading the book. I was
like, John, John, I go

384
00:37:55,679 --> 00:38:00,800
and I read him the thing about
the charcuterie board and the sauce a sausage

385
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,199
of Job's like, oh my god, nothing's changed, and he goes,

386
00:38:02,519 --> 00:38:07,599
you must ask her if he was
wearing short shorts now. He was like,

387
00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:12,880
I could basically see his balls while
he was doing that. I definitely

388
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:21,639
would have probably fucking to them.
I don't know, honestly. Like,

389
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,079
no, he was. He was
like the perfect teddy bear. That's so

390
00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:30,360
funny, you know. And then
he took me apart. He took me

391
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,639
apart in that interview. You know, he said like hold out your hand,

392
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,679
and you know I have extreme anxiety. I know, I know that's

393
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:45,880
really hard to believe. But he's
like, listen, you know everyone wants

394
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:52,400
a pet scan, right and my
job here is not to psychoanalyze you.

395
00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:57,280
I can, I will, I'll
do it right now. But like my

396
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,840
job as a psychopath is to own
you. So here we go. You

397
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:10,159
have extraordinarily high executive function and memory, and as a result, you are

398
00:39:10,199 --> 00:39:20,159
a nervous wreck and you always will
be. And I was like, just

399
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:25,599
can I have one of those sausages. I'll take a sausage now, please,

400
00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:30,840
I mean, and it's absolutely the
truth. And he was like,

401
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:36,320
hold at your hand, you know, for how long can you make it

402
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:43,079
not shake? And like, I
gave it a shot. But the truth

403
00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:45,000
is, if I hold my hand
out for long enough, it'll start shake.

404
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:52,079
Because I have anxiety that's really profound. And also, you know,

405
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:57,320
I think that motivates you too,
though you know, in the same way

406
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:04,639
that being a psychopath motivated James Fallon
into this incredible career, right, you

407
00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:08,679
know, and that is also teaching
us about psychopathy. You know, I

408
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:14,159
tried to get him Sam's brain,
right, well, try to get let's

409
00:40:14,199 --> 00:40:17,440
take another let's take one more break, yeah, and we'll be right back.

410
00:40:21,039 --> 00:40:22,639
Okay, you tried to get in
Sam's brain. Yeah, I would

411
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:27,000
No, No, I tried to
get his actual his actual brain. He

412
00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:35,119
tried to get his brain. Oh
challenge. You know it wasn't or it

413
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:37,000
shouldn't have been, except it was
the middle of COVID when he died.

414
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:45,280
He died. I haven't gotten to
that. December tween twenty and there were

415
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:53,079
like meat trucks at the coroner's office
and I was his next of kin.

416
00:40:53,360 --> 00:41:00,920
He had designated me his next of
kin. No why I know, but

417
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:05,679
the plan was and he knew it. I was like, I promise you

418
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:12,599
I will like get rid of your
remains in a respectful way. I'm gonna

419
00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:17,440
take your brain and take it to
use Irvine and also took out at Stanford

420
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,320
because you don't need the entire brain, just need like a little slice,

421
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:29,440
right, So I was entitled to
that, But there's only so much time,

422
00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:34,679
Like a body is decomposing, right, and the brain is decomposing faster

423
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,159
than anything else. And what they
would have I was like on the phone

424
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:45,800
them. I was in the Corners
parking lot with the meat trucks in my

425
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:52,760
mask, like pounding on their door, like I am entitled to this.

426
00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:58,960
I'm sorry if this seems schoolish to
you, but I want this brain.

427
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:04,960
Yeah, And I know. I
was like, I'll take a has on

428
00:42:05,079 --> 00:42:08,760
myself, but this brain needs to
be stored under certain conditions. And of

429
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:15,639
course they're looking at me like are
you the weirdest person ever? And then

430
00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:22,559
you know what happened a year later, when it't all like played out,

431
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:29,079
they call me and they said,
we're sorry. We realized that you should

432
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:36,039
have been entitled tis freaking Organs.
That was that was the point, right,

433
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,719
you know, And but you know, you do get actually all of

434
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:46,239
his possessions, and we have done
you the favor of cremating him, and

435
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:51,639
you need to come and pick up
these ashes. And my ten year old

436
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:58,480
at the time now eleven, was
home from school sec with like a terrible

437
00:42:58,519 --> 00:43:02,880
fever, and I was like,
yeah, the car, wow, get

438
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,639
in the car. And he was
like, where are we going, ma,

439
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,320
And I was like, we are
going to the Coroner's office. It

440
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:19,880
is an extremely interesting historical building in
Los Angeles. Also, this is where

441
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,679
they processed dead bodies. And he
was like, nice, MA, real

442
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:29,199
want to go to Jackie Cheese,
real nice? And I was like,

443
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,480
you know what, dude, this
is my job. Okay, So if

444
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:37,320
you don't want to come with me
and go pick up some serial killer ashes,

445
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,280
you get a job. And also
I'll get you some McNuggets now.

446
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,760
But I think they probably were surprised
when I, you know, dragged my

447
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:55,400
ten year old up to the door
with this sweaty, little fever hand giving

448
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,679
them the eye, you know,
and like thank you for the ashes.

449
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:05,679
Oh my gosh, Well, what
was it like like in general being a

450
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:12,199
mom and having young kids and getting
obviously so wrapped up and like this is

451
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,880
not a nine to five job.
This was probably like twenty four seventh thinking

452
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,599
about this, and also the intensity
of the subject matter that you're dealing with

453
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,920
and you're you're taking on the point
of view of these victims and each one.

454
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,559
I mean, I can't imagine what
that must have been like, like

455
00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:31,679
how did you how did you know
I did? And your husband's job,

456
00:44:32,119 --> 00:44:40,119
yeah, yeah, my husband is
a touring musician, right, but this

457
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:47,880
was COVID like the middle, like
I'm almost down in the book Covid hits.

458
00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:54,119
My husband isn't working. He's a
touring musician, right, he's a

459
00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:59,840
weezer. That sounds very fancy to
all of you, and it is very

460
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:08,119
very fancy. Sometimes your husband's and
Duran Durant. That's not true, but

461
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:12,519
a lot of people think it is
because his name is John Taylor. I

462
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,239
love John to a lot of people. Do It's not the same John Taylor.

463
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,280
Yeah, Well, you don't have
to admit that. I mean,

464
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,320
I don't, but then sometimes people
feel robbed. I felt like they can't

465
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:28,360
believe that they literally have thought that
for ten years if it's news to them

466
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,239
that he's actually not. But yeah, you know, I actually have in

467
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:37,000
my acknowledgements. So thank you to
Trevor Noah. And everyone's like Trevor Noah

468
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:44,679
because everyone like goes toy the acknowledgements. You're thinking, I'm like different,

469
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:50,719
Trevor no It is a different there's
two Trevor Noah. Yes, oh,

470
00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:55,760
interesting, that's hilarious. My team
he worked with, My research team was

471
00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:00,800
amazing. But yeah, it's a
different Trevor now. But I should just

472
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,000
say, yeah, how many kids
do you? Totally? Yeah, Trevor

473
00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:09,119
Noah was really helpful. How many
kids? He's been a great supporter.

474
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:14,559
I have two kids, fifteen and
eleven. And what you're saying is,

475
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,039
what's it like to be a mom? Yeah? It was different before COVID

476
00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:23,920
because all of a sudden they were
making a documentary about me at that time,

477
00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:34,480
about Joe Burlinger was making a documentary
about my investigation process, and it's

478
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:39,599
called I'm like it's called I Think
Confronting a serial Killer and it is on

479
00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:50,440
all major streaming platforms right now.
And all of a sudden they couldn't go

480
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,320
to the city, the other cities
they had to go to. So I've

481
00:46:54,400 --> 00:47:00,960
got two kids in the house now, I hadn't managed so that, like

482
00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:07,719
they were out of the house before
the interviews were happening. We have an

483
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:15,840
open floor plan. You can hear
anything that's going on. So like what

484
00:47:15,079 --> 00:47:21,519
was going on is I was talking
to a serial killer for hours a day,

485
00:47:21,679 --> 00:47:28,360
and like, you don't you really
don't unless like I'm saying, you

486
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:34,639
know, meaning purpose, I would
will stand on a soapbox on the corner

487
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,840
in downtown LA with this book and
just say, please hear these victims.

488
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:45,480
See these victims. I've never felt
a passion like this, but like to

489
00:47:45,639 --> 00:47:50,400
move my kids around like they were
a piece of furniture so they didn't have

490
00:47:50,559 --> 00:47:57,199
to hear his voice, just because
you know, we were just all stuck

491
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:01,559
in the house together. We had
a COVID truck in our driveway. Thank

492
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:05,719
god. The COVID guy. I
was like, really got along with Jovi

493
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,519
there playing TAGMT, you know,
so it felt like, oh wow,

494
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:21,840
you know, here's sort of this
incredible like enclosed creative environment. And also

495
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:28,880
I'm the you know, I'm the
I'm the victim. I'm victim. One

496
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:36,199
always like to have a camera up
your nose for every single second of these

497
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:42,599
conversations, you know, and and
do interviews that are nine hours long.

498
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:49,880
And I mean it was, it
was incredibly difficult for my family. And

499
00:48:50,159 --> 00:48:55,519
I think now, so fifteen seems
to be about the age that the kids

500
00:48:55,599 --> 00:49:05,400
start getting into true crime. And
so now my kid thinks he's cool because

501
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,239
I now because his mom, you
know, got a serial killer to confess

502
00:49:09,559 --> 00:49:14,280
that now they know, you know, now it's cool. But like,

503
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,960
I also have kids to comment on
my Instagram, like my mom won't let

504
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:23,360
me buy your book. I mean
I'm like, she's probably right, dude.

505
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,920
I have a fifteen year old son, and I cannot imagine him reading

506
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,320
this. No, I mean my
kids don't read this. Yeah, they

507
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,519
don't read this. Yeah, but
they know what I do. Yeah,

508
00:49:35,559 --> 00:49:38,360
of course, you know. It's
not like I'm like I'm going to,

509
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:43,760
you know, volunteer at the Red
Cross or something, you know. Yeah,

510
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:49,480
I mean, you know, I
work in and difficult I work with

511
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:55,199
difficult and fringe subject matter. You
know, I am difficult and fringe subject

512
00:49:55,559 --> 00:50:02,440
matter. I'm gonna change all my
moments, change all my like bios to

513
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:07,320
that right now. So did you
close to any of the victims families?

514
00:50:07,519 --> 00:50:15,199
Yes, and to Sam's family,
you know, like I became very close

515
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:22,480
with his niece, who is just
I mean, if I could say,

516
00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:29,920
like the damage that Sam did to
my brain to my family, just like

517
00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:32,719
I just felt like I was in
the ultimate ring. You know. It

518
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,800
was one of the ways we connected. Like I'm a big I'm a big

519
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,639
fan of the fights. I was
raised that way. I can talk about,

520
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,480
you know, pound for pound,
who he thinks the best of the

521
00:50:45,559 --> 00:50:52,039
world, you know, and you
know, and that's how I got Sam.

522
00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:54,280
By a boxer. He was a
boxer, was a millweight boxer in

523
00:50:54,400 --> 00:51:00,280
prison, which at the time in
the fifties was you know, like a

524
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:07,000
funnel into the actual boxing world.
So it was possible that he could have,

525
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:14,039
you know, been a successful boxer, except you know what I mean,

526
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,559
I just I can't say what I
really want to say right now.

527
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,920
But he was a coward at the
end of the day, Like he won

528
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:30,519
and won and one and the minute
he lost, he got his lips split.

529
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:37,199
He was so vain that he threw
his boxing gloves in the trash and

530
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:44,719
never picked him up again, and
then just started picking on women. That's

531
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:50,199
when he started killing. Oh wow, yeah, And I'm just like,

532
00:51:51,159 --> 00:51:54,280
really, you got your lips split, Like see this tooth. You know

533
00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:00,119
how expensive this tooth is, your
front tooth? You know how much it

534
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:05,519
hurts? Right now? I pressed
on it like that because I got hit

535
00:52:05,639 --> 00:52:08,320
in the face. I was boxing. I got hit in the face.

536
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:16,880
I just I just I rolled the
wrong direction right into an elbow and had

537
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:22,079
to go to my dentist and he
was like, your teeth are so expensive.

538
00:52:22,599 --> 00:52:25,840
You've been hit in the face so
many times, Like I had to

539
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,599
get a root canal and every place
I know we talked about I'm just like

540
00:52:31,079 --> 00:52:35,519
here, yeah, it's a big
topic for us. Serial killers and teeth,

541
00:52:36,639 --> 00:52:42,039
well, you know they're not unrelated. I mean seriously, they take

542
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:46,519
you know, like the human body
becomes a thing they want to own,

543
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:52,559
right, So, like one thing
Sam is. One thing that makes Sam

544
00:52:52,679 --> 00:52:58,920
remarkable is he drew all his victims. Right, So if they had say

545
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:04,119
a gold too, which was how
they just identified one of the victims in

546
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,960
Pascagoula, Mississippi, was that gold
tooth, you know, and they were

547
00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:12,639
looking for those remains and looking for
that map, and they got it.

548
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,400
They just got it. You know. It's like it seems every month I

549
00:53:16,519 --> 00:53:22,840
get to move a pin on my
board where I actually have a board.

550
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:28,239
I have a map, you know, because it was like ninety three confessions,

551
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:34,360
sixty three now confirmed sixty three women? Like how many women? Is

552
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,440
that easy? Like you have to
actually look at it? And you know,

553
00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:42,719
I would say, go draw map, Go draw, you know,

554
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,000
and put you and put your marks
on it, you know, and then

555
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:51,920
look at the thirties. Something odd
that aren't you know, my I changed

556
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,840
them to black when they're solved.
They're red when they're unsolved, you know.

557
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:00,039
And I mean, I don't know
when that map will ever leave my

558
00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:05,320
life, and I hope it will
because I hope they close all these cases.

559
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:10,960
It's very unlikely that they'll close the
entire gap. But every month there's

560
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:19,280
assault, there's a detective somewhere who
cares and is fighting. So everybody needs

561
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,760
to go buy this book. Behold
the Monster Jillian Lauren And where can we

562
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:30,559
find you on social media? And
what's next for you? You want to

563
00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:36,079
know it's next for me? Really
yeah, I'm going to secretarial school.

564
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:42,559
Stop it now. I that was
what I That was the best I could

565
00:54:42,599 --> 00:54:45,719
come up with at you am last
night. You know, you always have

566
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,320
this like I need a day job, and I'm like, I don't type

567
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,239
fast enough, Like I could easily
get a job as an investigator. You

568
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:58,440
know that. Well, I think
I may, you know, but also

569
00:54:58,639 --> 00:55:04,239
like what's next for me will always
be writing. But this investigation thing,

570
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,079
it got me where it got me
where it gets you. Like, you

571
00:55:09,199 --> 00:55:13,280
know, when I think when I
think, oh, I could just go

572
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:20,840
write another book about anything else,
Like I'm really into sports, you know,

573
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:25,519
and women's sports in particularly I think
are incredibly exciting. Now women's fighting

574
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,000
is really exciting right now. Also, I just want to go on with

575
00:55:30,159 --> 00:55:37,199
Joe Rogan and just I just want
to count him. But I just want

576
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:42,079
to give him on one too.
But you know, I'm like, I

577
00:55:42,159 --> 00:55:45,719
could do any of these things,
and what I want to do is keep

578
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:51,800
working, not on Sam Little's case
forever. Like right now, I invite

579
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,599
all of you to read the book. Yes, and also you know there

580
00:55:55,679 --> 00:56:05,480
are victims it's unsolved and more and
more, you know, citizens not necessarily

581
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:15,199
you know, like or work in
conjunction with law enforcement and and find people.

582
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:22,880
And you know they're they're incredible group
of citizens sleuths who just you know,

583
00:56:22,039 --> 00:56:27,480
they're looking at the Charlie Project and
the Dope Project every day. So

584
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:34,760
like this book is my invitation to
everyone to just like join join the fight,

585
00:56:35,519 --> 00:56:42,079
and not necessarily like it's a fight, but join the fight for for

586
00:56:42,199 --> 00:56:49,199
an equitable justice system. How about
that that doesn't consider you know, certain

587
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,400
victims. I mean in the eighties, they would call these prostitutes. You

588
00:56:53,519 --> 00:57:00,519
know, they call the murders in
they were finding women and dumpsters every morning

589
00:57:00,119 --> 00:57:05,920
in South LA and they would call
them as an A one eighty seven on

590
00:57:06,079 --> 00:57:12,239
you know, fifth and Main.
It's an NHI No humans involved. Wow.

591
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,719
Yeah, so I'm like, there
are humans involved. Like I felt

592
00:57:19,159 --> 00:57:25,119
a real passion to humanize the victims
in this book and also give you know,

593
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:34,320
the straight science and the details and
I mean the most unbelievably creepy interviews

594
00:57:34,599 --> 00:57:38,920
you could ever imagine. It's all
the joy and you're doing the Lord's work.

595
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,480
Really, thank you, yeah,
and thank you for coming. Yeah,

596
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:45,719
thank you? And do you have
a website? Is a Jillian Laurens

597
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:52,480
And yes, Jillian Lauren dot com. I'm also a Jillian Lauren author on

598
00:57:52,880 --> 00:58:00,239
many things and Insta. I am
Jillian Lauren at Jillian Lauren uh and that

599
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:07,599
you know, and I've also been
doing a TikTok my kids force me.

600
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:13,840
I was like, absolutely not,
but you know that, like every post

601
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:20,280
I do that's like a missing person
gets thousands of views and I'm like,

602
00:58:20,719 --> 00:58:23,840
that's thousands of people that wouldn't have
seen that missing and they are going to

603
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:28,159
talk to their friend, They're going
to talk to their mother. They're like

604
00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:34,360
somewhere it's gonna hit. And so
I was like, fine, and I

605
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:40,000
do have my fifteen year old running
the camera. Is that at Jillian Lauren

606
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:45,920
at Julian and Lauren. Okay,
Jillian Learned author. Okay, there we

607
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:49,480
go. All right, well you
TikTok, I'm Jillie, I'm Jillian,

608
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,639
I'm Jillian Learned author. Okay,
yeah, we will find you. Thanks

609
00:58:53,719 --> 00:59:00,000
so much for companies, and everybody
run run to wherever you buy your books

610
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:09,239
books and grab behold the monster.
Yes, all right, by everybody letting go